Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Congresswoman Sara Jacobs Egg Freezing Choice: Why Authenticity Wins | EP 710

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

What if one of the most personal decisions a woman can make (when and whether to become a mother) became a public act of courage that shifted the conversation for an entire generation?In Episode 710 of Passion Struck, Congresswoman Sara Jacobs (D-CA) joins John R. Miles for a deeply human conversation that has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with agency, worth, and vulnerability.At 31, newly sworn into Congress, Sara froze her eggs to preserve the option of motherhood on her own timeline. At 36, still serving, she returned for two more rounds and chose to speak openly about the physical toll, emotional weight, and empowering choice behind it.Sara shares the raw realities (hot flashes, intense cravings, acne, and the surprising joy of taking control), why she rejects pity for empowerment, and how radical vulnerability has become her superpower in leadership. She challenges the idea that women must be perfect to lead, explains why fertility is not just a “women’s issue,” and calls on male leaders to recognize their experience represents only half the story.If you’ve ever felt pressure to follow a prescribed path or wondered how authenticity can reshape both personal life and public policy, this conversation is for you.Check the full show notes here: https://passionstruck.com/sara-jacobs-egg-freezing/All links gathered here, including books, Substack, YouTube, and Start Mattering apparel: https://linktr.ee/John_R_MilesFor more about Congresswoman Sara Jacobs: https://sarajacobs.house.gov/Pre-order You Matter, Luma: https://youmatterluma.com/Radical Vulnerability Companion WorkbookReflect. Reclaim Agency. Redefine Worth.Gentle prompts and exercises to explore your own relationship with choice, vulnerability, and self-worth, inspired by Sara’s journey and the message that you matter exactly as you are.Download the free Companion Workbook at: https://www.theignitedlife.net/p/sara-jacobs-radical-vulnerabilityIn this episode, you will learn:Why Sara Jacobs chose egg freezing twice while serving in Congress and why she frames it as empowerment, not lossThe surprising physical and emotional realities of the process (from hot flashes to intense cravings)How radical vulnerability became Sara’s leadership superpower and why perfection is the enemy of connectionWhy fertility and reproductive choices are not “women’s issues” but human issues that demand broader understandingThe danger of tying women’s worth to motherhood and how redefining agency frees us allWhat Sara wants the next generation of women (and men) to internalize about authenticity, choice, and speaking upSupport the MovementEvery human deserves to feel seen, valued, and like they matter.Wear it. Live it. Show it.https://StartMattering.comDisclaimerThe Passion Struck podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Passion Struck or its affiliates. This podcast is not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment from a licensed physician, therapist, or other qualified professional.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on passion struck. I'll be honest with you. Body image, body weight, food are things that I've struggled with my whole life. And I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I don't have the scarcity mindset and that I love my body the way it is and not am constantly trying to change it. And that's really difficult work. It's work that I have to do every single day.

And I hope that as a society, we do a. a better job of not giving the kinds of messages that I received as a young girl to future generations. Welcome to Passionstruck. I'm your host, John Miles. This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters. Each week, I sit down with change makers, creators, scientists, and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future,

developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection, and impact

is choosing to live like you matter. Hey friends, and happy 2026. Welcome back to episode, 710 of Passionstruck. This is one of my favorite times of the year. There's something so powerful about the quiet reset of January 1st, a moment when the noise eases. Intentions come into focus and we get to ask ourselves, not what do I want to do, but who do I want to become this year? And if you're like me, it's also that stretch of the calendar where you're gearing up for the college football and NFL playoffs. A reminder that preparation, timing, and teamwork matter just as much as

raw talent, which makes today's conversation especially fitting. Over the past month, we've been in what I call the season of becoming, exploring identity, discomfort, leadership, flow, creativity, and compassion with voices like Susan Grau, Ann Libera, Brent Gleason, Hannah Pryor, Nirba Shan, David Nurse, Mark Murphy, Ollie Raisin, Forrest McGuire, Rick Hansen, and Joshua Green. Today's conversation continues that journey by going into deeply human territory. This is not an episode about politics, and I want to be clear about that. And it's not just an episode about fertility. It's an episode about agency, what it looks like to choose yourself without abandoning your purpose. My guest today is Representative Sarah Jacobs, a third-term member of Congress representing

California's 51st District. She's one of the youngest women serving in Congress, and she's also been remarkably open about a deeply personal decision, freezing her eggs while serving in public office. Sarah chose to speak publicly about that journey, the physical toll, the emotional complexity, the body scrutiny, and the invisible labor, not because she was seeking attention, but because lived experience makes better leadership possible. In today's conversation, we explore what it means to take agency when biology, ambition, and service collide. Why not yet can be a powerful values-aligned choice, how stigma around women's bodies quietly shapes policy and culture, why leadership without embodied understanding leads to blind spots, and how vulnerability,

when chosen intentionally, becomes a form of strength. At its core, this episode asks a bigger question. What would change if we designed our systems around real human lives, not idealized timelines? If you've ever felt pressure around timing, if your body has ever felt inconvenient to your role. If you've ever wrestled with choosing between contribution and care, this conversation is for you. Before we begin, a quick reminder, if this episode resonates, please share it with someone navigating a similar season. And if you haven't yet, a five-star rating a review on Apple podcast or Spotify helps these conversations, reach the people who need them most, and catch

the full visual experience on our YouTube channels, Passion Struck Clips, and John Miles. All right, this is episode 710. Let's step into this honest, powerful, conversation with Sarah Jacobs. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I still remember the moment I realized something was off. I was drinking more water, trying to be healthier, but I kept feeling off. Low energy, brain fog, strange skin flare-ups. First, I blamed stress until a dug deeper. Turns out three and four U.S. homes have tap water contaminated with things we'd never knowingly drink. Lead, forever chemicals,

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I would like to welcome Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs, a third-term member of Congress, representing California's 51st District to Passion Struck. Welcome, Sarah. How are you today? I'm good. Thanks so much for having me. Today, we're not talking about your job as a congresswoman. We're not talking about politics at all.

we're talking about something personal that you have been going through. Can you take us back to the moment when you realized, if I want the option of motherhood, I need to act now. What was happening in your life and work at that time? So I got sworn into Congress at 31 years old and realized that I was going to be quite busy getting everything started. And I come from a big family. I always knew I wanted to be a mom, but I knew that it wasn't the right time.

And so in my first term in Congress, in my first year in Congress, I froze my eggs and made that decision because I wanted to have agency in my life and my timeline and be able to make that decision when was right for me, not just based on my biological clock. And then as I continued serving in Congress, I turned 36 and realized it was still not quite the right time for me. It was time to go back and check on some things my doctor recommended we do another round of egg freezing to make sure that I had as much optionality as I could give myself. And so this past year, I did two rounds of egg retrieval, froze my eggs, and spoke about it very publicly, which I will say

was difficult. It was like to say it was an act of radical vulnerability. I did not have talking about my boobs hurting with the New York Times on my bucket list, but that's what happened. But I feel like it's important to be talking about these things because, look, as a 36-year-old woman, right, these are the conversations I'm having with all my friends all the time, right, who's having a baby, who wants to have a baby, who doesn't want to have a baby. And if we're not normalizing those things, if we're not talking about them, we're certainly not going to make good policy about them in the end. Yeah, I was wondering, as you were going through this, what surprised you the most? Was it physical changes in you or emotional? Well, that's such a good question. I had the most

intense food cravings and food noise. And I feel like I was going through puberty and menopause at the same time. So like I got terrible acne and my boobs hurt. But then I was also having hot flashes and really weird body temperature control. So I guess I'm not looking forward to that in the future because the hot flashes were really challenging. And then I really wanted frozen yogurt and cinnamon rolls like every night. Man, my wife has recently been craving a cinnabunds. and we do it on a rare occasion, but man, we just had one and they are so good. They're so good. The struggle is real.

That's right. When you are making this decision, did it feel like you were gaining control or more like you were acknowledging uncertainty? I felt like I was gaining control. I think a lot of people think about ed freezing and like when I would share this with people, they'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, why are you sorry? This is like a very empowering decision where I am taking one of the most important decisions in my life and giving myself more agency about it.

And that felt really empowering to me. It didn't feel at all like something that I had to feel bad about or feel sorry about or anything like that. Yeah, and emotions are something I love to talk about on the podcast. And you just talked about you were giving yourself agency, but I'm wondering, was there any grief? alongside that agency, kind of grief for how complicated this choice had to be? Yeah, look, I every so often think, what could my life be like if I'd chosen differently, right? Like, I am very fortunate. I have the means and ability to choose to stay home with kids if that's what I wanted to do. And that's the choice that most of the women in my family make.

And I think there is some grief about figuring out how to balance all this. that it's not, it doesn't feel the same quite like a fairy tale story, right? Because there's like very practical considerations that I'm thinking about. It's not just like I want to have a baby, but like when and how and if and the logistics, right? I fly five hours twice a week to get to my job. And I will also say these are decisions that usually fall on the women to make. And so many women are facing these things. But yeah, I'm glad you asked it that way because I think there is some grief just about what different, how different my life could be if I'd made different choices. Yeah, and part of the reason I was asking it that way is I think there's a cultural narrative

as I've been studying to prepare for this interview that egg freezing is like something that's sad or a last resort. But you've said it was empowering. Why the difference for you? For me, it didn't feel sad at all. Like, I was very clear and I do a lot of therapy. I think everyone should. So I had a lot of clarity for myself about like my values, which are that it matters a lot to me to serve my community, to be, to work hard. And it matters a lot to me to be a parent. And I was very clear on the fact that this was not the right time for me to do that, but that it was something that was important for me to keep the option available for the future. And so to me, it was about preserving options and about giving myself as much agency as I could

in this decision so that I wasn't ever forced into a corner where I had to do something at a time that wasn't the right time because if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to have this thing that I know I want, which is to become a parent. Okay. And you've brought up agency a couple of times now. What does agency really mean to you? Is this decision beyond biology or timing? Why is it agency? I see a lot of my friends who maybe end up with the person they're with when they're 35 because they're worried about not being able to have kids, right? That is a lack of agency or a lot of friends change their career path or change their jobs, not because they want to, but because it's the only way that they can make a family work. And for me, it's really about being very clear

about my values, being very clear about what I want. And then really trying to give myself as much optionality as I can. And like a lot of my life is out of control, out of my control, right? This job is very unpredictable. We get called back at a moment's notice. I've missed friends' weddings because I had to be stuck here to vote. I'm back and forth across the country all the time. And so any piece of my life that I feel like I can try and give myself more options or I can try and smooth the noise in the chaos I try and take. And this was one of the most important ways of doing that for myself. Yeah. The reason I was asking it is because I talk a lot about our need to matter on this podcast. And to me, agency is often what restores matter and when circumstances feel constraining.

Is that kind of how this felt for you? I totally agree with that. And I feel like. the times when I feel the most out of control or like the most upset about things is when I'm in what my therapist would call like a crouching position, when it feels like things are happening to me that I don't get a say in. And one of the most important things you need to do is, right, push through that crouching position, push through that feeling that you don't get a say in your life and get to a place of agency because we do get a say in our lives. And like most type A oldest daughters honor student, right? Like I thought there was a path I had to follow

and that if I did all the right things, this I had to do and then you get the A plus at the end. But that's not actually how life works. There is no path. And I've worked really hard on trying to get out of this idea of what I should be doing and try and really focus on what do I want to be doing. What is aligned with my values? What actually feels fulfilling? Not what do I think I should be doing because that's what society or whatever told me to do. And I think a lot of women feel that way about having a family, right? There's so much messaging and pressure on women right now to have a family and to do it early, whether that's all of our social media or messaging. And this was one way that I could break through that noise for myself and try and get out of that crouching

position and remind myself that I get a say in this. I don't have to do things the way society he says I should. So I was recently speaking to one of your constituents, Bright Gleason, who's a retired Navy seal, lives in San Diego, and we were talking about his new book All In. Did this choice change how you think about being all in your own life? Look, I think it was a big sacrifice to make. Like anyone who's gone through an ag retrieval knows that it's not an easy process. Like my body went through a lot.

I had brain fog and pen and all these other things that come along with it. We were literally in the middle of a committee meeting and I had to run up to my office to give myself shots and run back down, which is not a pleasant experience. Shots never are. No. And I know that with everything happening in the world right now, I just knew that I couldn't be all in with my job if I was also having a family and a baby right now. And so I knew that to be all in the way I wanted to show up and be present in the way I want to in this moment that our country is in, that I needed to make this choice so that I could be all in on my future family when the time is right. And I want to switch to your job just for a second because you have a demanding job.

You've already talked about how you have to fly back and forth all the time. I have friends who were in Congress from Clearwater, St. Pete. to Florida area, and they often complain about the travel. Although I have no sympathy for people who live on the eastern time zone. Like they do. Yes. But as I understand it, you're giving yourself the injections like you were talking about. There was a time period where you're going to daily ultrasounds and you're commuting cross

country while representing San Diego. What does it mean for you to legislate while your body is going through something? most colleagues never even have to consider. To me, that was a really important part of it, right? It's no secret that Congress is older and mailer and whiter than the average population. And that's part of why I decided to talk about it so publicly and to be so open about it because I knew that there are so many people who are facing these same choices, who are going through these same things, who have way less support than I do.

and who deserve a Congress who understands what this is and is trying to make it easier for them. And after I talked about this very publicly, the first time, I was at a meeting with military families and service members and a young woman who serves in the Navy came up to me and was like, I read the article about you freezing your eggs. And I really wish that's something I could do. And that was the genesis of me working to get TRICARE, the military insurance program to cover fertility treatments. And that conversation wouldn't have happened. That legislation would have happened if I hadn't myself been living the thing that so many people are living. And look, it's not easy. I've had to give myself shots in the middle of really

important things. The brain fog and all of that is real. But I also think to myself, like a lot of women who are going through this are doing it while they have two toddlers at home. If they can do it, I can do it and this is this two shall pass and this is a momentary discomfort to get to my ultimate values aligned goal. I was going to go to the service members next given I'm a veteran, but I remember my own time constantly deploying, constantly really under tense circumstances. In my experience, I haven't been in Iraq and a few other places, I was exposed to burn pits and chemicals, other things that have had a long-term impact on my life.

But I don't think the general public thinks about all these things and the fact that when we serve in the military, that's right in the middle of the prime reproductive years of trying to have a family. And yet we have all these complications. What do you think about those tradeoffs that are so quietly demanding of our service, men and women, and their futures? We know that military families face higher rates of infertility than that civilian population, one in four military families reports infertility. And it makes sense, right, for all the things you said, right? In your primary reproductive gears, you're far away from your partner, you're being exposed to dangerous things, to chemicals. And we know that a lot of military service members are

leaving the military because they can't build their family and serve the country the way they want to. And it's a readiness issue, right? It's, you know this, right? We train, we put so much money into training these folks for them to leave at the prime of their career because we're not giving them the support they need is not good for our national security. And I do wish more people understood the real sacrifices we're asking, not just of the service members, but of their whole family. I talked to a woman named Lydia who, her husband, served multiple combat deployments. She's an army wife, and she has tried 11 rounds of IUI. They've not been successful. Their doctor recommends IVF as the next step, but they can't get TRICARE to cover it, even though

his service is part of why he's facing infertility challenges. And they've literally considered divorcing so that she can go somewhere else to get the coverage she needs. That's not what we should be asking of people who already, like, sacrifice so much for us. Right. And on this topic of agency, right? Like, agency isn't just about the ability of yourself to make a choice. It's about having choices, right? It's about having accessible choices that you can then take agency in your own life to make. And right now, military families don't have that access to IVF coverage. And so we are taking away that agency from them. Before we continue, I want to pause on something important. Listening to a conversation like this is one thing, living it, especially when the timing is

hard as another. So many of you write to me saying, I know what I should do, but I don't know how to honor myself without letting someone else down. That tension between agency and obligation, calling and capacity, is exactly what the season of becoming is about. Becoming isn't about rushing into the next chapter. It's about choosing alignment before pressure makes that choice for you. That's why each episode in this series is paired with a reflection tool inside the ignited life, my substack, not to give you answers, but to help you ask better questions. like, where am I choosing urgency over alignment? What decision have I been postponing because I'm afraid of how it will look? What would it mean to honor my timing without apology? Inside the

Ignited Life, you'll find weekly reflection prompts tied to each episode, identity and agency practices, tools to help you integrate what you're hearing into how you actually love. Because becoming isn't passive, it's a choice you practice. Quietly, consistently, with courage. You can join us at the ignitedlife.net. Now, a quick break from our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. You're listening to Passionstruck on the Passionstruck network. Now, back to the conversation with Sarah Jacobs. I know there's a lot of sensitivity even from the veterans I talk to where they say, why are we investing so much money in women in service? And then they're going to just leave to have children. I'm bringing it up because it's real. I've heard it from.

a lot of them. But my own experience of this is it's not just the female in this situation who's impacted. Oftentimes, the reason you can't get pregnant is also because of the other side of the equation and they're deployed. They're stressed out. Things are happening and it just impacts the family in totality. So this isn't just about female service members. It's about both. But what are your thoughts on that? Because I think we jump to the conclusion that, this is focused on one sex, and I think it impacts. That's exactly right. In fact, most of the military families I've been talking to,

it is the male who's having fertility challenges because of the service-related reasons. And that's not always the case, but we do know that it's very prevalent that it is the male who does have these infertility challenges. But I also think one of the things I find difficult about this conversation maybe is that, while I know that it's not the right choice for me to have a child right now and be able to be fully present in my job, I also have a lot of colleagues who have small children and they are incredible at their job. And I never want to give off the impression or to make anyone feel like they can't do that. And actually, some of my best employees have kids at home. Like mothers are

sometimes the best employees, right? They're highly efficient and they're very focused. And so I also don't want to say, you can't, I guess I reject the whole premise of that, that like when a service member has a kid, they become a less good service member. In many cases, I think they become a much better service member potentially. And so, like, we want to give people as much agency and choice and accessibility as we can to be able to make their own choices. And oftentimes, having those choices actually makes them better at their job. And I just want to make this real for people. Earlier this year, I had a former astronaut named Susan Kioran on the show. And Susan was the second female shuttle pilot. But prior to that, she was the first female F-14 pilot.

So someone who had to invest a lot to break down barriers to get to where she was. Her husband happens to be a Navy SEAL. And after she got done with that space flight, they wanted to start a family and she didn't have the option that you're talking about. So it cost her dearly. She ended up removing herself from NASA at that point so she could start a family because she really didn't have that choice. So I'm just trying to bring it, make this real because you think about the impact and gut-wrenching decision that was from her perspective, having a position that is so hard to get, harder than becoming a four-star general in the Marine Corps when you think about becoming an astronaut? And like, I hear these kinds of stories all the time. People who have to give up

their military career because they need to get a job in the private sector so that they can get health insurance that will cover these fertility treatments, for instance. And look, I don't want to say it's only service members who face these challenges. Obviously, the work of service members is, like, very unique in a lot of ways. Our primary productive years also tend to be like when we are reaching our prime earning potential product productivity years, right? And a lot of families are facing these same questions, right? Do they continue on this career path they're on? Or do they deviate to start a family and how do they do that? And like, why does it all happen right at the same time? It feels like your 30s are when it all comes to a head. And it's not easy for anyone. And there's

like an added layer of it with service members because what they do for all of us is so incredibly important. Yeah. Well, Sarah, one thing I did want to talk about a little bit is body image because I think it's important, especially for young, but also all our listeners. And body image to me is something that affects, again, both men and women. But as I was doing research for this, I understand that there were a number of comments that were made about you and your body during this time. And that had to be hard first. What do you think it reveals about how women's bodies or our bodies are treated in public life? People have been talking about my body since I first ran for Congress. There have been so many comments about my hair, my voice. I literally had someone tell me that I should

do an ad in a bikini so that men would want to vote for me. And they meant it quite literally. And as I was going through this egg freezing process, as most women do who go through it, I gained weight and had bloated, distended belly from everything I was going through. And I, there were so many comments about my body and can be really hard. Like, my job is to be in the public eye. And as much as I try and ignore what people say, like, it does affect me. And part of what affects me is that I don't want the young. women who I know follow me to see those comments and make it think about themselves. And I'll be

honest with you. Body image, body weight, food are things that I've struggled with my whole life. And I've worked really hard to get to a place where I feel neutral about food and that I don't have the scarcity mindset and that I love my body the way it is and not am constantly trying to change it. And that's really difficult work. It's work that I have to do every single day. And I hope that as a society, we do a better job of not giving the kinds of messages that I received as a young girl to future generations. I grew up in the 2000s, the height of the skinny era where Jessica Simpson was the size six, I think, and all of the tabloids called her fat, right? Like, those are not good things for our young girls to be learning. And now it's back, especially with the GLP ones and how a lot more people are maybe more skinny than they would not.

actually be otherwise. And we're starting to see that like very skinny, chic look come back. One of the things I think a lot about being a leader is that a big part of my job is to show people that leadership can look and sound different than what they're used to, right? That a lot of people in their head have this idea of leadership that's Spartacus leading the charge. And that's a very specific image of who can be a leader. And it's not someone who looks like me. But I think leadership is listening, I think leadership can be very different. And part of what I try and do is show that leadership can look and sound different so that we can have more people who look and sound all sorts of ways, see themselves as leaders, and step up and take agency in the direction of our

country. I want to switch directions to creating policy, which is something I can't even imagine how difficult that is right now. But I read that you wrote, we can't make good policy if if the colleagues around us don't understand how these things work. What did you mean by that? I will give you a very concrete example. Right after Roe v. Wade was overturned when the Dobbs decision came down, I started getting all these texts from my friends and peers asking what they should do about their period tracking apps and TikTok had a whole thing like delete your app.

I use a period tracking app so I was wondering this for myself and I started looking into it with my team and there's basically no federal protections for this data. So I started talking about that with my colleagues. But first I had to explain, like, yes, we track our periods. And then, yes, there are apps that help us do that. And here's why protecting that data is so important. And as part of that process, I became the first person in house history to talk about my own period on the house floor.

If I hadn't been experiencing that myself as someone with a period tracking app, wondering what I should do in this moment change, I don't think we would have gotten that policy about how we protect that kind of very sensitive data because so many of my colleagues just didn't do that and so didn't even realize it was a problem. And when I think about all of this, something that you were trying to bring to bear, and you've been so public about this,

which is very difficult given your position, but I want to look at this from a different perspective, which is the cost of abstraction and leadership. And what happens when our bodies become statistics instead of realities, because I think with what you were showing here, you're trying to do the opposite. Yeah. And I just wanted to acknowledge you for that and get your thoughts on how it's changed, how other people are looking at this now.

I think that's so crucial. I can't remember who said it. A statistic is a statistic and a story is what changes people. And I really think that's true. we humanize these issues is what really matters. And that's not to say we don't need people like many of my colleagues here. It just means we need more diverse perspectives around the table to make sure that more lived experiences are there when we're making this policy. And like I do think the more we can humanize these issues, the more we can take it out of this policy realm

and into these real human realm, the less politicized it becomes. And the more we can find common ground in agreement even where we don't think we can't. A lot of the folks I work with on IVF is because someone in their family or they themselves have used IVF to get pregnant. And that it's that human lived experience that enables us to work across the aisle to work and build these coalitions. And I know everyone looks at Washington and thinks that we're just fighting all the time. And like in many cases that is true. But the way that we get out of that battle space is by making these things as human and personal as possible so that we can relate on a human level and then figure out how we can work together to solve a problem. I have two related but a little

bit different questions I wanted to ask. The first is unfortunately last year my sister who also graduated from Columbia. She went to the international public affairs program like you did. She died of pancreatic cancer and as I've talked to members of Congress because I'm active with Pancan. What they've unfortunately told me is because there is such a, the research has not been able to penetrate causing causality to improve the chances of people surviving. There's not been a lot of policy conversations about it. So my question is this, and it's not just something like pancreatic cancer. It's like, how do we create better policy conversations without requiring millions of people to suffer first. Not just here, but in other areas. Yeah. That is such a good question

because honestly, when we have seen progress, it's usually been because someone in power has had a personal experience with something. So we were able to get marriage equality because Senator Portman's son came out and he realized it was an issue. And it shouldn't take leaders to have a personal experience with something to want to do things. And I think the way we get to a better policy discussion is by creating new two-way feedback loops between people and their leaders. And actually, to me, this is a big piece of agency, right? This is one of the key things I'm focused on as a leader is that people have lost trust and faith in leaders, in institutions, in policy and government because they don't feel like we're listening and they don't feel like

they get a say in the decisions being made about them. And we have new tools and technologies now that enable us to actually be able to have these two-way feedback loops. and have more people be part of the policymaking process so that we can get more of these lived experiences that we don't have to wait till one of 435 people has experienced something themselves, but that we are having this way to hear from and bring in people into this conversation

and we can address challenges before millions and millions of people have been hurt. Yeah, one of the best examples I saw of that was when this was done for people who suffered as a result of 9-11 and the ongoing repercussions from that which my sister was one of them. So there's another area that I wanted to cover that's really important to me. And I think a lot of people who are listening to this, and that is traumatic brain injuries.

For those of us who've deployed downrange, traumatic brain injuries are all too common. And I just wanted to share an interesting story with you. And I promise it's leading somewhere. A few years ago, went to Texas, and I participated in a four by four by 48 challenge to bring awareness to traumatic brain injuries. and mental health issues that many veterans are going through. And there were about 100 other veterans who were there. And Morgan LaTrell and his brother Marcus were supposed to be there, but Morgan was in the process of running for his first term at the time so he couldn't be.

But what was interesting to me, because it's not something that I often talk to other veterans about, but at that event, I did. 99.99% of us were experiencing the same repercussions. And what's troubling about this is that it's very difficult to diagnose between the long-term effects of TBIs and post-traumatic stress disorder. So it often gets mislabeled as a mental issue instead of what it actually is. And I think a lot of veterans feel invisible, misunderstood, minimized. I know just personally it's led to a lot of suicides for veterans because they're not getting the help they need. But so first, I wanted to thank you and Morgan for sponsoring this because I think it is so important,

not just for veterans, but first responders and other people. But what parallels do you see between how we've treated brain injury and overall how we're treating women's health? Because to me, there are like a lot of similarities between the two. Yeah. And look, like it shouldn't take someone like Morgan LaTrell getting to Congress as wonderful as I think he is as a human to be able to get us to do something. about this. Again, like, we shouldn't need someone who's had personal experience, and we shouldn't

require people who have experienced trauma to have to bear their trauma to us over and over again to get us to act, right? That shouldn't be how we do things. And I think you're exactly right. It's like things that are outside of maybe the experience of your typical leader, your typical member of Congress, don't get as much attention. And that's not how it should be, and that's not fair. and I'm actually excited that we have a much more diverse Congress than we've ever had. And I do think that it's shown that things are changing, right? Morgan and I worked across the aisle to get funding for TBI to address some research that we think needs to happen around potential cures. And that's because I represent a military community of San Diego. I hear about this from my constituents all the time. He's lived

it himself. And we were able to come together and get things done. And I do think the more young people we get into office, the more people who are, have different experiences, the more we will be able to address more types of issues. And we need to fix the system so that it doesn't require members of Congress to have personally experienced something to us actually be able to get something done on it. What do you think it would look like if we design systems around human lives and not these idealized timelines that happened to us? So much of our system, right, is not actually designed for what life looks like, right? now. And one of the things I think a lot about is AI and new technologies. That's something I do a lot

of work on. And I actually think one of the things I'm most concerned about in terms of what AI will do is that there will be even more of these decisions made big and small about people's lives that not only will they have no agency and they will have no recourse, they will have no way of seeing visibility into why that decision was made. And I really do worry about what that will mean for how people feel about agency and feel about their sense of belonging. And I think the sense of belonging is so important. And I really feel we need to build community back up from the ground up that it really is about how do we humanize these issues? How do we convene? How do we build community? It can be as simple as I tell people all the time they call me

they're like, I'm so overwhelmed by what's happening in the news. I'm like, go to a local trash pickup. Go clean up a park. Go volunteer at a neighborhood school. school and help paint the playground, right? Like, those are the things we need to do to build community. And that's what we need to do to build systems that actually encompass all of us as humans and give us ways to have agency in the decisions being made about us, whether that's by nameless, faceless bureaucrats or an AI system or anything else. Yeah, well, I am so glad you brought that up, Sarah, because some of what you were just talking about is one of the most important things that I'm concerned about, which is this whole topic of belonging. And when I think of the fact

here in America that 40% of our teenagers are feeling constantly sad or hopeless, to me, it comes right back to this issue of feeling like they matter in their lives. And so I've actually taken on a project. I call it the mattering verse. And the first phase of this is I've written a children's book called You Matter Luma comes out in February. But I'm trying to attack this when kids are four 10 years old because that's when this whole value system starts breaking down. And the reasons it's breaking down is to what you just described. We have so many adults who don't feel like they matter. So that's what they're passing down to their kids. It's like the immune response is absent. It's getting worse and worse because this keeps getting passed down from one generation

to the next. And what you said about these ripples of kindness or ripples of mattering, to me, that's how you restore it. And it takes each one of us showing up differently in our interpersonal relationships and our communities to change this. So thank you for bringing that up. I love that. I'll look forward to getting that book for my niece who turns four in February. I'll send you a copy. But no, I think that's exactly right. And it's something I take very seriously as a leader. That's what I say that a big part of leadership is actually listening. It's making sure people know that they are seen, they are heard, they matter, and that there is someone here who cares about them. So I know we have to wrap this up. I had just a few more questions. So the first is,

what do you hope women who are listening to this get out of this conversation? What do you want them to learn from this? I hope women learn that we don't have to be perfect to be successful and actually that the more sort of vulnerable we are, actually, sometimes the more successful we can be that this idea of chasing perfection actually often gets in our way. And I know for myself as a young woman, and when I talk to other young women, we often feel like, oh, we don't know enough. We haven't done enough homework yet. Like, we have to have the perfect answer before we can say anything. And it's not true. Like, I can tell you, I've been in all the most important rooms. No one has the answer. And we need as much.

creativity and ingenuity as we can find right now, and that's only going to happen if people actually speak up and share their voice. And your voice really does matter. And I also want young women to know that you get agency, you get a say in your life, there is no should, there is no path. And I'm working hard to make it so that those options for when you, when and if and how you build a family are more accessible. But your worth is so much more than your fertility. And you don't have to feel bad for making different choices than society tells you that you should make. Okay. And on the other side of this, what would you want male leaders to understand after listening to this? I want male leaders to understand, first of all, that their experience is only

the experience of half the population and that I am tired of the days of when things that men experience are considered mainstream and things that women experience are considered women's issues. Right? Like, first of all, fertility isn't just a woman's problem. I've heard leaders on both sides of the aisle who will say things like we need to focus more on health care, not on those divisive issues like reproductive health care. It's my health care. I'm a 36 year old woman. That is my health care. And I really hope that my male colleagues, that male leaders really take the time to learn and see that what they're going through is only half of the story. And it is not just mainstream because it's what they are going through and that these things that women are talking about are not just women's

issues. They're things that impact all of us. And sir, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is I think conversations like this can actually shift culture, not just policy. So my final question for you is when you look back on this chapter of your life, what do you think it taught you? We've talked a lot about agency, but also your own sense of worth. And what would you want the next generation to internalize? from your example? I think for a generation of women leaders, they felt like they had to be perfect, and that made them seem guarded.

And that actually impeded their ability to make true connections with populations. And one of the things I think, they really thought they had to be silent about personal challenges, right? That any sort of vulnerability was a weakness. And I am so grateful to that generation of women because it has allowed my generation of leaders to be able to be as authentic as we can be and to know that this kind of radical authenticity, radical vulnerability is our superpower and is what makes us stronger and is what enables us to connect on a different level.

And I really hope that the next generation takes that lesson and goes even further, that they are not so worried about being perfect and following this sort of should path, but that they know that actually being their individual self is what matters the most. And the more true they are to that, the more successful they'll be in, the better our whole society will be as a result. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today on Passionstruck. I know it was a very vulnerable conversation for you, and I'm just glad we can get this out into the world.

Thank you. I really enjoyed it. That's a wrap on today's conversation with Sarah Jacobs. What stayed with me most from this conversation is this truth. Agency doesn't always look like bold action. Sometimes it looks like choosing alignment over urgency. Sarah's story reminds us that mattering isn't just about what we produce, how visible we are, or how much we carry for others.

It's about whether we feel we have a say in our lives, even when the constraints are real. The stakes are high and the timing feels unfair. This episode is not asking us to agree on policy. It's asking us to humanize the people behind it. and to recognize how deeply personal experience shapes better leadership, better systems, and more humane outcomes. If this conversation expanded how you think about agency leadership or matter, and please share it with someone who's navigating a hard choice of their own.

And if you want to go deeper with these themes, agency identity belonging, join me at the ignitedlife.net, where each episode is paired with reflection tools to help you integrate what you're hearing and how you actually live. Next up, we're starting a new series called The Meaning Makers. and we're going into an even deeper layer. I'll be joined by Dr. Stephen Post, one of the world's leading researchers on compassion, altruism, and the science of giving. In our conversation, we explore his life's work on what he calls pure unlimited love

is a scientifically grounded, spiritually recognized force that shapes human flourishing and how expanding our concern beyond ourselves may be the missing piece in how we think about becoming. Because becoming isn't just personal, it's relational, it's collective, and it's It's not sustained by pressure, but by care. Freedom means a lot to me, but more in terms of honoring the spirit of freedom, which means the positive version of the golden rule, which means much more to me than the negative version, do not do unto others, which it would not have them do unto you.

Well, I can get home tonight, and if I haven't kicked anybody in the shin, I can probably feel okay about myself, hopefully not. But if I've used my moral imagination, and I've asked myself, how can I contribute meaningfully and positively to the lives around me, then I've fulfilled the golden rule. I'm John Miles. You've been passion struck. And until next time, keep choosing alignment over pressure, agency over autopilot, and live like you matter. Thank you.