Passion Struck with John R. Miles - D.J. Vanas on Unleashing Your Warrior Within EP 170

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast, he simply said, you're a warrior now. What that meant to me was very different than the stuff I grew up watching on TV and in movies. It wasn't that Hollywood image in our tribal communities, our warriors were all about service. It was about taking our creator, giving talent and ability, developing that over a lifetime so we could be an asset

Starting point is 00:00:20 where benefit to the tribe that we served. It was somebody who fought for something bigger than their own personal welfare, somebody who led by example, not perfect example, but by good example. And somebody who at the end of the day asked, not what can I get, but what can I do for someone else?

Starting point is 00:00:37 Welcome to PassionStrock. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews,

Starting point is 00:01:05 the rest of the week with guest ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 170 of PassionStruck. Recently rated as one of the top five alternative health podcasts by Apple.

Starting point is 00:01:28 And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn how to live better, be better, and impact the world. In case you missed my episodes from last week, the first featured Kurt Wilkin, who is an entrepreneur and author of the new book, Who's Your Mike, which is a great guide to any entrepreneur, and it goes into the different types of people you are encounter on your entrepreneurial journey. I also had on Abby Morgan, who's a screenwriter, playwright, author, and director, and we discuss her incredible new hit series, The Split, her movies, such as The Iron Lady, Surfer Jett, as well as her new memoir.

Starting point is 00:02:04 This is not a pity memoir. And in case you missed my episode from last week, it was on the topic of how do you take responsibility for your actions. Please check all those episodes out. Thank you so much for supporting the show and your five star ratings and your reviews go such a long way and helping to improve the popularity of the show. Now, let's talk about today's guests. DJ Vannis is an internationally acclaimed speaker for Fortune 500 companies, hundreds of tribal nations, and over 7,000 audiences worldwide. An enrolled member of the Ottawa Tribe of Michigan

Starting point is 00:02:37 and a former US Air Force officer. He inspires others on how to apply the warrior spirit in their business and in their lives. He is the author of to apply the warrior spirit in their business and in their lives. He is the author of The Tiny Warrior Spirit on the Run, which was featured in the PBS Film The Warrior tradition, as well as his new book which releases today The Warrior Within. He hosted the Discovering Your Warrior Spirit Show on PBS. And in today's discussion, we go into his experience at the Air Force Academy and what led him service country. He talks about why the Sundance experience was so pivotal

Starting point is 00:03:12 for him in his life and who the person he has become. We go into his definition of what a warrior is and what a warrior is not. What the difference is between a fighter and a warrior, why if you have an intentional desire to serve, you have to have an equally strong desire to intentionally serve in the right way. The importance of each of us finding our own tribe, why we can't be a warrior when we're falling apart inside, the topic of perfectionalism and how you can apply the warrior spirit to overcome it. Why humility is the great equalizer and so much more? Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your hosting guide on your journey to creating an intentional life.

Starting point is 00:03:54 Now, let that journey begin. So excited to welcome DJ Vannis, not only because he's a guest of the Passion Strike podcast, but because his new book, The Weir Within, releases today. Congratulations and welcome DJ. Thank you, John. Really appreciate being here. Well, I'm a static that you're here and especially to have another veteran join the podcast. I always love it when I get to have

Starting point is 00:04:25 veterans on the show and especially someone from my same year group from the Air Force Academy. So I think that's just fitting as well. Well, we all have moments that define us. And when you were in your 20s, you experienced the Sundance ceremony with your Ottawa tribe where you fasted, the Sundance ceremony with your Ottawa tribe where you fasted practice self-mutilation through piercings and prepared yourself through personal sacrifice and endurance to the sun. Can you talk about the origins of the Sundance and how it influenced your understanding of what it meant to be a warrior? Yeah, absolutely. A great question. Sundance is a very ancient Yeah, absolutely. Great question. Sundance is a very ancient ceremony that was done

Starting point is 00:05:06 for a very specific reason. And it was to give thanks for all the things that we take for granted in our lives. Our food, our water, our shelter, our friends and family. And especially to give thanks for white buffalo calf maiden, which is the spirit that brought us the pipe to pray with. And so we go without those things that we take for granted for four days, we dance from sun up to sun down,

Starting point is 00:05:30 and we pray for everyone and everything in the world except for ourselves. So it's a ceremony of sacrifice. The piercing ceremony is really powerful as well, because what that does is it shows respect for the pain that women go through in childbirth. So as women push, push, push to make the world go on by delivering us into the world as our moms, we as men pull, pull, pull when we do the piercing in our chest and we're tied to the tree of life, which is like our intended to the creator during those those four days, we pull, pull, pull until we rip free.

Starting point is 00:06:04 And the whole purpose behind that, you know, when we finally are released, we pull, pull, pull until we rip free. And the whole purpose behind that, you know, when we finally are released, we get to leave our past mistakes, pain, regret, shame, frustration in the past, wear a belongs, and we get to start with a clean slate again. And the other symbology there is when you're finally let go, you're unencumbered to start moving forward and really become who you're meant to be. My medicine man, Celo Blackrow, when I was completed with that, and we do this every year for four years, and on the fourth year when I finally was released, and I'm pulling on those lines, piercing six popped out, and they sound like muffled firecrackers when they rip out of your skin, And they flew to the other side of the arbor.

Starting point is 00:06:45 I remember looking down, I was so grateful in that moment to be released from these tethers. And I saw puffs of dust rising up where the drops of blood hit. And I was so thankful in that moment to be let go. And my medicine man grabbed me by my sage bracelet and picked me up.

Starting point is 00:07:02 And we started running around the inside of the arbor and the one thing he said to me, he didn't say congratulations, he didn't say way to go, good job, I prepared for four years of my life for this. He simply said, you're a warrior now. And what that meant to me, it made me feel about that big because what that meant to me was very different than the stuff I grew up watching on TV and in movies. It wasn't that Hollywood image. In our tribal communities, our warriors were all about service. It was about taking our creator, giving talent and ability, developing that over a lifetime so we could be an asset

Starting point is 00:07:36 where it benefit to the tribe that we served. It was somebody who fought for something bigger than their own personal welfare, somebody who led by example, not perfect example, but by good example. And somebody who at the end of the day asked, not what can I get, but what can I do for someone else? The services are highest calling. It's why we're here. And so we get to honor that by walking that warrior path.

Starting point is 00:07:59 And so it meant something very different to me in that moment. But it was a life-defining moment for me. Well, I never thought in my life I would get to see a Sundance, but back in March, I participated in the War Angel Foundation, 4x4x48 Challenge, and we were lucky to have Native American honorees who were there, plus some of their sons and daughters who had served. And this included, she fell laying, who's a member of the Dakota and Chick-Sah nation, chief Richard Grimes, Mona Polaka, and grandfather Austin Nunes, and they performed the Sundance

Starting point is 00:08:39 on the opening day of the event. But then something very interestingly took place on the last day, and I was hoping maybe you could tell me the significance, but during this ceremony, they brought out Crazy Horses pipe, which hasn't been smoked in 48 years, and they presented it to each one of us. And then the former Secretary of Defense, Chris Miller happened to be there and chief Lane on behalf of the different nations that were represented, offered forgiveness

Starting point is 00:09:15 for the atrocities that the US military had performed on their nations. And it was just such a moving ceremony, Chris Miller actually broke down in tears, but looking back, I probably witnessed some incredible history there that I didn't really understand the full implications of. Well, I mean, just to be there for that moment of reconciliation, just to talk about the reality of what happened to, you know, our travel communities and acknowledge that and take ownership of it is powerful.

Starting point is 00:09:48 I mean, that's part of healing. We can't ever heal things that we just sweep under the rug, right? So, I mean, being able to be part of that would be cathartic. I'm glad that you got to witness that and see there's a lot of energy and emotion still surrounding what's happened to us as tribal people in this country. And until we get to that point where we have more of these type of moments, that pain is still there. So to be able to see that is a beautiful thing. Like I said, that's how we heal. And those ceremonies we have a lot of those

Starting point is 00:10:17 across Indian country from time to time because they're necessary. There's been a lot of pain, there's been a lot of tough experiences that native people have gone through. Well, our nation's first people and so many times we're treated last. And so until we get that history right, and I hope that we do in time, we're getting better at it, that's definitely and necessarily a part of healing.

Starting point is 00:10:39 Well, it was an incredible honor for me and I learned so much and felt so much through that experience. One of the things I learned that maybe some of the listeners might not know is that Native Americans have had deep ties to the warrior and the warrior spirit and have fought in every U.S. war and have paid the toll and blood along with our veterans. How did that heritage pave your way to becoming a cadet at the U.S. Air Force Academy? Yes, another great point. We have a strong warrior culture amongst

Starting point is 00:11:15 most of our tribes. I mean, we have had a warrior society. It was part of our belief system. It was part of what we held as important. And we honor that, especially in military service, we have the highest rates of service in the military, of any ethnic group in America, even though we're the smallest group. And, but per capita, we have the highest service rates. And that speaks to that warrior spirit in action, wanting to honor that path. And I was part of a documentary that PBS did called The Warrior Tradition that spoke about this dynamic. And it's a story that we all need to hear.

Starting point is 00:11:51 I mean, even in our tribal communities, we need to acknowledge this. This is something to be very proud of. It was a big impact for me growing up because my dad was also in the military. I come from a family that served in the military for generations. So to me, growing up at the end of a runway on an Air Force base, it'll be in a military

Starting point is 00:12:08 brat and knowing my background and heritage that I'm descended from warriors. I mean, that's part of my culture as well. It was a pretty good alignment for me, even at a young age. So I started pursuing that path when I was in middle school, early high school, started kind of eyeing the Air Force Academy because I wanted to fly and started taking flying lessons when I was in high school. When I was 13 actually, it was when I started solar when I was 16, pilot's license at 17.

Starting point is 00:12:39 You had to fly an airplane really well before everyone had to drive a car, which is scary. Because my mom had to drive me to the airport, check out an airplane, I could fly on my own because I didn't have a driver's license so go figure. I didn't get to fly for the military ultimately because my eyes weren't good enough which was a big disappointment but I'm glad it ended, it landed me in a place like the Air Force Academy because that experience completely transformed my life, my direction has a big part to do with why I'm even here today. Well, since you brought up being a pilot, I'm going to jump way ahead in your book where you feature one of your classmates who had an interesting experience with the glider.

Starting point is 00:13:22 I thought maybe you could tell that story since you're just talking about being a pilot and the lessons that you learned from it. Yeah, I've got a great friend and classmate, one of the funniest guys I've ever known, named Mike Pine, that I highlight in the book. And the story was all about the difference between good and great. What is our benchmark for what we consider good versus great? Because we define that ultimately. And when we were at the Air Force Academy, it was very apparent. Mike has been a super successful guy in business and sales. He was vice president of the UFC Ultimate Fighting Championship for a while, worked directly for Dana White.

Starting point is 00:13:58 I mean, he's at a storied past. But we knew even taking glider training, which is our first aviation course course at the Academy. We all knew Mike was not gonna be a pilot He was the last person in our group to solo a glider and once he had a solo we understood why we were all kind of watching him We were all done and we were on the observation deck watching and the first thing he did is when he came in for landing He actually requested just like in the movie Top Gun, which is so appropriate right now, he requested permission for a fly buy. And, yeah, he just got torn up on the radio and we are laughing our heads off. And we thought that was the highlight of the show, but not with Mike, it got better.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Because he came in for landing, John, and he never flared. So when you flare, you come down and then you pull off to bleed off airspeed, he just lawn-darted it. I mean, he just went right in, huge cascade of dirt and rocks everywhere, and he came sliding to a stop like a runner steel in second. And we're all running out there because we're wondering what happened, and it was pretty dramatic. And the instructor is just screaming as head off. I mean, he's just furious. And Mike's sliding the canopy back sits on the edge, smiling from ear to ear, and could not understand why

Starting point is 00:15:15 the instructor was so mad. And Mike goes, what, like, he goes, that was a good landing. I'm able to walk away. And the instructor screaming at me, he's like, no, a good landing. I'm able to walk away and the instructor screaming at me is like, no, a good landing is when we can use the airplane again. And that was the difference between definitions of good, right? And good enough sometimes doesn't good enough. And good sometimes is not great. We have to be very specific on where we set that benchmark. And so that was where I shared that story. But now I've got so many great, wonderful classmates I went to the Academy with, so many great stories, life lessons, share a lot of them in the book, but yeah, that was one that still cracks me up when I tell it.

Starting point is 00:15:53 Yeah, well, I was gonna jump to another one of those life stories. And when you were talking about the Sundance and learning about what it means to be a warrior, you alluded to this, but you talk about how what you thought, what a warrior is and what you've actually come to know it is are two different things. And so can you give the audience your definition of a warrior,

Starting point is 00:16:17 but I thought maybe an interesting way to do it would be through the lens of your story about you trying to become a championship boxer your first year. Oh, yeah. And as we mentioned before, that warrior role travel commues is very different than Hollywood image. And that Hollywood image is that Stowe, sweaty chisel figure that shoot in bazookas and

Starting point is 00:16:39 knockin' down buildings and, you know, and it almost certainly looks at the camera. That's not the image that we have in our travel communities. Like I said, it's somebody who is a servant who has dedicated their life to service. And it wasn't about glory, it was about what they could contribute to their tribe. And we sometimes have a misconception

Starting point is 00:17:03 that that warrior is all about, they get it right every time. They make no mistakes. They don't feel pain. They don't feel fear, which is all baloney. I mean, it's garbage. It gets us into trouble when we over romanticize that role. When I was at the Air Force Academy in my senior year, I was on kind of a vision quest

Starting point is 00:17:19 of my own to become part of the boxing team. We have a phenomenal boxing team at the Air Force Academy, National Champs, many, many years in a row. Coach Ed Wissers was our legendary coach who has phenomenal big impact in my life as well. But I trained as hard as I could and I ended up breaking my nose not once, but then the second time rate before wing open,

Starting point is 00:17:42 which is our big tournament to choose the team. And I remember going into his office and I was really upset because the second time I broke my nose, it cracked my eye orbital. And so I was done. And he had a real compassionate conversation with me, which I was surprised, because coach Wischer was not known

Starting point is 00:18:00 as a warm fuzzy kind of coach. And so this really surprised me, but he knew I was upset. I mean, I had been working on this for over a year and a half, talking to him through trying to choke back tears, and he knew I was upset. And so what he did is he ended up writing me a letter.

Starting point is 00:18:17 I still carry it to this day. A handwritten letter and he basically said, you're the reason why I come into the gym, you work really hard, you have nothing basically be proud of for the journey that you've been on. And sometimes it doesn't work out, but you left it basically. You did all you could. And it meant a lot to me.

Starting point is 00:18:34 It really did. And that's why I highlight in the book. There's a difference between quitting and surrendering. I surrendered in that moment because there was no path forward. I was damaged. I couldn't fight in the tournament. But I didn't feel like I quit. And when we quit on things, it stings and it lingers at last. Because when we quit, we just walk away because we get frustrated. We don't like how things are going. We let fear get the best of us. And when we start to quit, when we quit on one thing,

Starting point is 00:19:04 quitting on the next thing is a lot easier. So it's a really bad habit to foster if we want to move forward in life. But surrendering is when we realize we're at the end of our power. And whatever we're doing now isn't working anymore. And sometimes can even cause more harm than good. Because if I were to win into the tournament,

Starting point is 00:19:23 I could have got permanent damage. I mean, there's a lot of things that could have gone a lot, you know, that could have gone wrong. And I also highlight that in the book that our warriors in our tribal communities are iconic warriors like crazy horse, like chief Joseph. They did not quit. They surrendered. There's a difference. And they did that to preserve their people, to think about the future, to understand that there is not a path forward doing what they were doing at the time. They would have thought probably told a bit or end if it was just them, but they weren't thinking about just them.

Starting point is 00:19:57 They were thinking about their people. And so surrendering is one thing quitting as something else. Our warriors may have surrendered, but they never quit. Their warrior spirit was intact until the end, and it's still there in our travel communities today. We'll be right back to my interview with DJ Vannis. Whenever I talk to my listeners, one thing always comes up, money. They don't want to have to worry about inflation, volatility, and stock market losses. They just want to know that their money is working for them, so they can continue chasing their passion. But how do you do that when inflation is slicing through your savings? And major stock indexes are down 20 to 25%.

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Starting point is 00:21:37 Slash CD. One more time masterworks.com promo code passion. And I realize that all these advertiser codes can be difficult to remember, so we put them in one community place at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support this podcast and make it free for you, our listeners. Now, back to my interview with DJ Vannis. Well, we're going to talk about that later on in the interview because that's kind of where you end the book as well and I want to discuss that a little bit more before we close out. But using this analogy of the boxer, what is the difference between a fighter and a warrior? That's a great question. I think they get mixed up a lot.

Starting point is 00:22:21 Being a fighter is important. Being a fighter is somebody who uses their time to achieve something that's good primarily for them that benefits that person. So whether that's losing weight, leaving a bad relationship, doing something to move them forward, getting their education,

Starting point is 00:22:40 whatever to making those hard decisions and sticking with it until they accomplish the goal. That's what being a fighter is. And you need that. We all need that to self-improve any aspect of our life. Because those things get hard and they're not handed to us. We have to fight for them. But being a warrior is a step higher. Being a warrior is taking that same time, talent, ability, energy, effort, and using it to impact somebody else's life. And that's what that warrior role is all about. Dedicating development of the self so that they could have an impact on somebody else's

Starting point is 00:23:14 life. It's a different look. It's a different responsibility, and ultimately it has a much, much bigger impact. But that's what that role is. But we have to be a fighter first before we can elevate to become a warrior. That dynamic is going to drive us to keep developing, keep growing, keep going through the hard times and coming out the back end so we can be of service to others because that's ultimately what that warrior role is all about. Well, you make a great point. And earlier this week week I had Admiral Sandy Stowe's on the podcast

Starting point is 00:23:46 Yeah, she was the superintendent of the Coast Guard Academy She brought up the whole topic that there's a difference between a leader and a leader of character and In the book you discuss with this warrior spirit this becoming a warrior core values play such a huge role. Why is that? That's your foundation. I mean, you're either building your life model on bricks or popsicle sticks. And we build our lives on bricks when we build them on core values. And I know you can relate to that too, being an Enable Academy graduate. And the military academies really promote this. And I'm glad that they do.

Starting point is 00:24:25 Our tribal communities really promote this. I'm glad that they do. This is a foundational approach to building a strong life. Our core values, the things that are most important to us, they give us an anchor point in a world of chaos. So when you know what your top values are, you can always use that as a lens to ask yourself a question, is this the right choice for me?

Starting point is 00:24:47 Is this the right use of my time and energy? And if that doesn't line up with our core values, then those are pretty easy moments to say no to those things. So it keeps us on track. But if we don't know what that looks like for us, we do my myself to chaos in this world on a daily basis. We're just kind of winging it. We're trying to, we're doing a lot of stuff and hoping something sticks. But if we know what we value and what our values are, we illuminate our own path on the journey we're on, which is critical because we don't have time to make all those mistakes and figure it out.

Starting point is 00:25:21 It's much easier to kind of create our values list and then walk according to that. I found this out early in my military career. Actually, when I was at the Naval Academy, I was on the honor staff and we had the electrical engineering scandal breakout. And through that experience, not only did I see the character emerge of those who had cheated on the exam and then we're trying to cover it up. But I also sought through watching the superintendant who was trying to cover the whole thing up. And it really taught me one of the biggest lessons of my life that we live by our intentions and our intentions are formed by our core values. And I wanted

Starting point is 00:26:00 to use that because this podcast is all about the power of intentionality. And in your book, you talk about the misalignment that springs from having noble intentions, but a lack of execution. And one of the favorite quotes I had from the book I'm going to read, you're right, when there's a strong will and intention to serve, there must also be an equally strong will and intention to serve the right way. I found that so powerful, but I was hoping that you could unpack that a bit. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Great point. The reason why I said that is the groups I have worked with primarily over the years are people who have dedicated their lives to serving others well. So it's people who are in health care, in education, in the military, in government, tribal employees, community builders at every level, people who are all in and trying to impact some of the old's life in a positive way, which is a beautiful thing.

Starting point is 00:26:54 I mean, that's the warrior role right there in alignment. So that's why those groups, I'm always attracted to working with them, and that's, I'm proud to say that I've worked with them for over 25 years. I always look at my work as providing for those providers, keeping them strong, resilient, focused. And the thing that I've found over and over again, John, is that those intentions to serve well and to contribute to the world or to their people or their tribe is always good. It's always a noble intention. Their hearts are always in the right place if you

Starting point is 00:27:24 want to look at it that way. But the execution just gets messed up so fast because what happens is that person starts to give it all away. They don't hold anything in reserve for themselves. They stop saying no to anything. They stop taking breaks. They don't take vacations. They don't organize their day.

Starting point is 00:27:42 They stop prioritizing. They stop asking for it or accepting help, and they run themselves into the ground. The intentions are still noble and pure, but the execution got all messed up. And so what I try to do, especially making that statement, is get people back into alignment. It's like our warriors weren't in it for the day.

Starting point is 00:28:02 They were in it for the long haul. And you can't be a warrior if you're falling apart. It just doesn't work. And so we have to do the things that we need to do for our self-care, take care of ourselves, get enough sleep, take time for ourselves, be willing to ask for accept help, our diets, our practices, our habits, all those things go into the self-care portion. But it's critically important because you can't deliver if we're burned out. It just doesn't work. And so that's why I made that point. As I've seen that dynamic so many times over the years,

Starting point is 00:28:36 I mean, I grew up with parents. My dad was career military, my mom of career nurse. I saw them being out of alignment where they want to give, give, give, and then they're having issues of their own. They're really struggling because we sometimes think falsely, by the way, that doing something good for us is selfish. It's not selfish. It's the highest form of care we can provide those we are trying to impact. When we take care of ourselves, we are stronger.

Starting point is 00:29:02 We're more patient, we're more resilient, we're kinder. We are more likely to find solutions to our problems. We can't do that if we're just running around with our hair on fire and leaving nothing to reserve. It just doesn't work. And I know that from personal experience, I got the shingles at 28 years old. I know what it's like to go go go go to the wheels fall off. I'm a born-again advocate for self-care. Yeah, it's one of the most important things that we routinely bring up here on the podcast and why we have so many behavioral scientists, doctors,

Starting point is 00:29:32 psychologists, great writers, to help people understand that self-care is so important. Yeah. And I'm gonna use this as a way to introduce another one of your books. And for the listener, DJ actually has three books, the most recent one and two before it. In one of those, a tiny warrior,

Starting point is 00:29:50 you have a line that kind of talks about what you were just expressing. And it says, however long or far you go, you cannot outrun your life's problems when those problems are within. And I wanted to use that line because right now, for those who are familiar with Gallup, it's showing that 23% of workers feel burned out more often than not

Starting point is 00:30:15 with 44% of them experiencing it often. You then have another one of their polls that says between 70 to 85% of all employees globally are disengaged. And I wanted to talk to you about this because at one point in your life, and I've told my story many times as well, we were both torn in several directions all at once. What did you experience and why do you think it's becoming so much harder for people to avoid this overload?

Starting point is 00:30:54 I think there is an incredible amount of pressure we put ourselves under to always deliver all the time, never make mistakes. We kind of get locked into this path that is like a train track and it's got one direction and one speed which is faster. And until we start to realize that number one, it's unsustainable. And number two, that's not the goal, is to be perfectionist, to get everything right all the time. And that's hard to step away from, especially if you're conditioned to think about it that way, or you're brought up to think about it that way, is to be able to back off and say, there's other ways to get there. For instance, one of the things

Starting point is 00:31:25 that I was, I did for way too many years was motivate myself with that kind of more of cracking the whip type of motivation. And that leads to, I mean, high levels of anxiety, high levels of stress, it affects our relationships, it affects our health. And I went through all this, but I kept thinking, this has got to be the best model to motivate myself forward. No, it's a model, but it's definitely not the best because it comes with consequences. And now in the past several years where I've been doing is motivating myself

Starting point is 00:32:00 by being my own best coach, being compassionate, being able to take myself aside emotionally, mentally, when something doesn't go right and kind of have a self-talk that's a lot framed in a much more positive light. Because I know the fear is stepping away from that motivation with a whip. We think we're going to get lazy. We think we're going to get soft. We think we're not going to be able to perform or be productive.

Starting point is 00:32:24 And what I've found is the exact opposite is true. We can still be a high performer, but the difference is, it feels so much better. And it's so much healthier for us, too. And until we realize that, and it's kind of a faith-based exercise, especially if you've been motivated for years, decades, in that same mode, which I think a lot of people in society are, I think, we're conditioned to look at life like that.

Starting point is 00:32:46 Like if you're not out there crushing it and working your tail feathers off, then you are soft. You are not doing what you were put here to do. And it's just, it's not sustainable, John. I mean, it's like even boxers in between rounds. What do boxers do? Take a break. Why?

Starting point is 00:33:02 So that in the next round, they can fight. They're at full capacity or close to it. That's why a 10 round fight doesn't just have 10 rounds with no breaks. That wouldn't be a real effective or productive fight. So it's just one of those life lessons. I mean, even breathing, nature teaches us over and over again. Breathing in, breathing out, we're doing it constantly, rebalancing, but we don't do that as much as we should in our own lives and in our own careers. We need that break. Well, you're so right. And next week on the podcast, I actually have Dr. Sarah Mednick, who lives in San Diego, as a matter of fact, and she's one of the foremost experts in sleep. And I

Starting point is 00:33:44 know later in the book, you talk about not being able to nap and why we all need naps.. And she's one of the foremost experts in sleep. And I know later in the book, you talk about not being able to nap and why we all need naps. Well, she's the author of to take a nap. But she also has a recent book that's come out that's called The Power of the Down State. And throughout it, she talks about why it's so important for us to take these mental breaks throughout the day during these transition points, even if it's between one meeting to the next or every 45 minutes to an hour and a half, take a walk, get out of nature, do something that

Starting point is 00:34:14 takes you away, practice meditation, whatever it is. So I think you bring up a very good point with that. And actually, it leads me to another interesting story. I had Dr. Katie Milkman on the podcast a few weeks ago and she's another Penguin Random House portfolio author. She happens to be a behavioral scientist at the University of Pennsylvania and she wrote the book How to Change. And in it, she has a really interesting story of Andre Agassi. and in it, she has a really interesting story of Andre Agassi. And you think about Andre Agassi's story today,

Starting point is 00:34:48 but there was a period of time where he went from the number one player in the world to almost removing himself from the top 100, right? And he had an interesting dinner conversation with one night with Bradley Gilbert who ended up becoming his coach. And they asked Brad, what do you think is going on with Andre's game? And his answer was he's playing himself instead of playing the opponent.

Starting point is 00:35:14 You're trying to overpower them. You're trying to do everything in your own mind that you think is right. But all this work that you're doing is for not because you're not playing against their weaknesses. And once he took him on as a coach and Andre really started to focus on self work becoming mentally strong, his whole game changed. And within months, he actually won the US Open and turned his whole life around

Starting point is 00:35:43 because of the changes that he made. And reducing that stress, reducing those other things that were impacting him. So I think that's a really good point. Well, I have my own upcoming book coming out later this year. And in it, I was originally going to call the first chapter that apathy is the enemy of passion. And I read in your book that you believe that apathy is the enemy of passion. And I read in your book that you believe that apathy is the biggest threat

Starting point is 00:36:08 to delivering service to others, which is at the core of being a warrior. Why is that? I think that it is the biggest threat because it totally saps us of the energy to do what we have committed to do. We're always gonna deal with limitations in a service environment.

Starting point is 00:36:25 I mean, I see this all the time, whether it's working with tribal healthcare centers or teachers or people who are in government service, there's always gonna be some type of limitation. Any business is gonna deal with limitation. There's always gonna be limits in time and money, budget, personnel. But the biggest threat to delivering great service

Starting point is 00:36:44 is not lacking in those things. The biggest threat is apathy because once we get to a point where we just stop fighting is hard, it doesn't matter how many good resources we have, we won't leverage them. Because we're so burned out, we're so broken in that moment. We just can't fight anymore. We have spent all of our energy, all of our resilience has been depleted because we're not doing what we need to do to stay in the fight, to show up day after day in that warrior role. And that's the whole point of the self-care and the things that we've been talking about, is we want to be strong and brave, not just today, but forward in the journey. We want to do this sustainably. And the only way that we do

Starting point is 00:37:20 that is by doing the things that we need to do to stay inspired, to stay strong, resilient, energized on purpose with purpose. It doesn't happen automatically. We live in a tough world. And if we're not going out of our way to carve the time to make this happen, the simple fact is it doesn't happen. We just kind of get beat down, we take our licks, we go through disappointment, through setbacks, and it starts to stack up without doing anything to counter it. And then we end up in that place, none of us wants to be,

Starting point is 00:37:50 which is feeling apathetic and having that feeling like, what's it even worth? That's a bad place to be. Like I said, if we're here to serve others, that is not an attitude that's going to produce any good result. Not for us or for anybody else. produce any good result, not for us or for anybody else. I wholeheartedly agree, and I think right now, we are facing chronic hopelessness that is just rampant, not only in the United States, but across the world. And you can see it with rising social discord, suicide rates, everything that it's impacting.

Starting point is 00:38:21 And I think one of the major things that's also impacting it is this whole topic of perfectionalism that you covered in the book. And it's a topic that has come up repeatedly on the podcast. And I wanted to ask, why did this heroic image that we both had of being in the military make you feel like it was unattainable? Now how did going through that change your view of the warrior archetype? Yeah, great question. Yeah, that perfectionism as an image is unattainable. That's why I always felt like there was a gap between where I was and where I thought I needed to be because perfection is not in the cards where human beings were flawed. We're going to make mistakes, we're going to drop the ball at times,

Starting point is 00:39:05 that's reality. And so when we have this perfect image that we're trying to hit and we never do, it leads to frustration, it leads to a feeling of feeling less than a feeling of being incompetent and what we have chosen to do. Perfection is not the name of the game that should not be the target. The target should be an excellent at what we do, which incorporates the idea that we're also a human being, that we're gonna stumble, we're gonna need outside help and encouragement at times. That's why that warrior role,

Starting point is 00:39:35 or that warrior archetype in our tribal communities, is so much more valid, it's so much more a living example and embodiment of what that warrior role really is all about because it incorporates things like stumbling, making mistakes, not being beyond pain or fear, but incorporating that as part of the role. I mean, that's what it was all about. It wasn't about being perfect. It was about showing up and doing the best we could in the moments to be able to continue to contribute to our tribe, but it wasn't about reaching a perfect shiny image. And

Starting point is 00:40:09 when we over romanticize that role, that's what makes it unattainable. We're flawed by design. And we're going to make mistakes. And that's part of the deal. That's how we learn. But yet we sometimes make a mistake and then we condemn ourselves. Oh my gosh, I'll never get there. This is not for me, you know, whatever personal narrative we start talking ourselves into. But it's just not based on reality and it's not productive in the end. It slows us down or stops us. It doesn't move us forward when we stumble and say, this is normal. This is natural and get ourselves back up and keep moving forward. That's the goal. I think the best way I like to describe it is we are all perfectly imperfect.

Starting point is 00:40:46 And that's what we need to embrace. And it's interesting you brought up how one of the things you learned was this power of being present in the moment because I had one of my classmates on the podcast a long time ago, Chris Cassidy. And I asked him if he could give a four-stall talk to the Brigade of Midshipment or did the commencement speech, what would he do it on? And he said just on that topic. But interestingly enough, Chris was an AVCO when a couple bronze stars in battle over in Afghanistan and talked about that experience through the lens of that whole event changed his perspective on life.

Starting point is 00:41:27 And then when he became an astronaut, he talked about the first time he did a space walk and looked down on the planet and just that whole effect of service to each other, service to others, and that we are all in one together, magnified that perspective for him. And in the book you talk a lot about the need to look at things from a different perspective. Why is reframing our perspective so important on this journey to become an warrior?

Starting point is 00:42:01 Oh my gosh, that's another great question. We can get entrenched in the perspective that we carry. Mindset is so critical, and so is a growth mindset, as far as being able to see things, not as they are, but as they could be. And that is one of the things with changing our perspective. When I heard you talk about Chrissy and the planet from space, I've read many stories of astronauts who have done that. It completely flips their lid on where they fit into humanity that we are all one big family. The planet is small and space is big.

Starting point is 00:42:32 It just shifts everything. When we're able to do that, we see things from a much better perspective. We come up with better solutions. We have more self-knowledge when we get a new perspective. That's why being with different people, going through different experiences, continually reading, continually learning about the world we live in and who we are is so important. Because without that, we go on this kind of coast mode. We're starting to violate the laws of nature. I mean, really, because nature teaches us where they're green and growing or ripe and rotting. And we can stay green and growing for a lifetime if we don't get entrenched in a perspective. Keeping our eyes open, keeping our hearts open to new ways of doing things. Because, like I said, sometimes the things that we've done have worked.

Starting point is 00:43:18 And it's a model that gets results, but is it the best? Probably not. And this is where that continual growth comes in. But shifting our perspectives, it keeps us from stepping in the pits if we're able to continue to do that. And incorporate things in our life. People, events, books, podcasts, videos that keep us in that moment of growth is critically important. I couldn't agree more on that point as well. And I think one of the most important things we can be is a perspective harnesser. I couldn't agree more on that point as well. And I think one of the most important things we can be is a perspective harnesser.

Starting point is 00:43:50 Another important thing we need to be is something that I call a mission angler. And you introduce this concept in chapter three where you talk about vision quest and going through the vision quest ceremony. And in all our personal journeys, I think knowing what we are fighting for, as you relate in the book, is so important. But what can we learn about this concept through the Ghostbusters movie?

Starting point is 00:44:15 John, I shared the Ghostbusters theme because if you solve your original, they say, don't cross the streams, right? They make these beams that capture ghosts, but they say, don't cross the beams, and they ask, well beams at Capricore Ghosts, but they say, don't cross the beams and they ask, well, why, why not? Because bad things happen, it could be really destructive, terrible.

Starting point is 00:44:31 And I bring that point up because when we cross the streams in our own lives with work and our own personal life, bad things can happen too. And what I mean by that is having clarity and where we are, and it's part of mindfulness, by the way, it's part of being present in the moment fully, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically, in that moment, doing your work. And when that work, work, give it, you're all, do your best. We'll solve problems, work from the moment you show up to the moment you leave, do your best. You'll walk out of there

Starting point is 00:45:00 feeling so much better than if you just kind of try to get through the day. When we're productive, it feels great. There's nothing more motivating than seeing results, right? So when we're at work, work, but when you're at home, be at home. Shut down as much as you can. Get away from the tech. Get away from email. Be at home to recharge as much as we can.

Starting point is 00:45:22 I know sometimes we have other responsibilities. I get that as well, but try to really be in that place and space to really get the benefits of the recharge. Because if we don't do that, what happens when we cross extremes, when we're at work, we're thinking about home and we're at home, we're thinking about work. And then in that kind of dynamic, we're not good in either space. And so that's why I brought up that Ghostbusters analogy. It stuck with my head when I saw it a lot of years ago and it makes more sense the older I get to realize

Starting point is 00:45:52 that whatever we're doing in that moment, do that thing fully. It doesn't mean that we have to do it for X amount of hours at a time, but in that moment, make it count. And we can't do that if we're thinking about 60 other things. Well, I relate that to this whole vision quest as well because if you're surrounding yourself with so much noise that you don't give yourself time to think,

Starting point is 00:46:16 give yourself time to get to know yourself, you're never gonna find that personal vision. Because it really comes out with spending time with yourself and really thinking about what you're called to do. The quieter my environment is, John, the louder the voices inside of me become. I can hear my own thoughts. I can hear my own things emerge and kind of bubble up that don't happen when we're run around with our hair and fire and we're constantly distracted and we're doing a million things in a day. It just doesn't work. But when I have solitude, when I have some quiet,

Starting point is 00:46:50 I said, you don't have to do this for days at a time like a vision quest. It's a powerful ceremony to change my life. But you can do this for the first few minutes of every day. It's just to let the dirt settle in your mud puddle, so you get back to a place of clarity. You can't do that when you're constantly stirring it up. So it's a great investment of time, but it really does keep the path clear

Starting point is 00:47:10 and gives us a strong direction on where we're going when we make the investment. Yeah, so for one of the things I also like that you brought up throughout the book is the topic of humility, because I think the contagion of ego is one of the biggest things that's impacting so many people today. And I love that you brought up that humility is the great equalizer. And later on in the book, you used your friend Alex and his battles with

Starting point is 00:47:39 PTSD to bring it up again. And I just wanted to touch since we're both veterans here on veteran suicide and why we need to put a stop to it. I had classmate of mine who gave a TED Talk has over 2 million views. And during his research to do this TED Talk, I didn't realize how big an issue this is. His numbers were independently validated by TED in order for him to talk about it,

Starting point is 00:48:06 but he discovered that there were over 140,000 veterans who took their lives since the war on terror began, and that number just blew me away. And so on this topic of humility, and I think veterans sometimes might have a harder issue with this than others, but why does so many people feel humiliated by humility? Yeah, that line stuck with me when I interviewed Alex about his experience, humiliated by humility. Because in that mode, we're not trained to go out of our way to get help in that warrior role, especially in the military,

Starting point is 00:48:46 that's why we have these rates is because we are trying to fulfill an image of, again, perfection. Of, I can't experience pain, I can't experience fear, it's weakness to do that. If I reach out and ask for help or say I'm struggling, it's weakness. So what happens is we paint ourselves into a smaller and smaller corner. Our anxiety goes higher and higher, depression gets deeper and deeper. And all of a sudden that person is in a crisis because they didn't reach out because they felt like it violated some personal code, a perspective again,

Starting point is 00:49:21 that we are trained, look at ourselves through. And that's why I thought his story was so compelling. The Alex is an incredible guy. He worked for me as a lieutenant and then he served in an army special forces. And that was one of the things that I was blown away. When the bronze star for Valor, the biggest thing for me that really took the courage, all the courage he had, was to finally get to a point where he knew he needed help. His behavior was erratic, he was in crisis mode, his family was constantly on edge with him, they didn't know when he would explode next.

Starting point is 00:49:55 When he got to a point where he finally said, I need help. I know that was a huge step forward and it took all of his courage to finally face his fear because his fear was that it was going to be weakness. It was going to be a disillusion of the image that he had for himself. And so that is a pretty scary thing to deal with because you're basically changing your whole mindset about how you look at yourself and your problems. And for him to do that was an act of courage and helped him and his family tremendously. that was an active courage and helped him and his family tremendously. But it also, I think, helped a lot of other people that read his story, that hopefully won't read it in the book and realize we are not perfect.

Starting point is 00:50:32 We make mistakes, we hurt, we struggle, we all need outside answers. This is part of being a human being, whether you're a warrior in the military or a warrior in life. This is something that is a dynamic that we have got to learn either the right way or the hard way. And sometimes I guess the hard way is the one that sticks with us, but we need to come back to that lesson. It's not about being perfect, it's about being productive, it's about being a contributor. And we can't do that when we paint ourselves into a corner and spiral downward. Yeah, well thank you for addressing that.

Starting point is 00:51:06 To any veteran or any other person who might be in need, the one thing I can tell you is I have topped now to hundreds, if not thousands of veterans who've experienced this feeling of anger, of depression, of sorrow. And there are ways that you can learn to deal with it and to change.

Starting point is 00:51:27 It takes a choice and it's gonna take work, but you can get through it. And I know you and I are both here. There are lots of other resources for people. But the thing I wanted to bring up is that there's hope for so many who are feeling this way, because I felt it myself. I was just gonna say that that's one of the things

Starting point is 00:51:43 that at the end of my first book, The Tiny Warrior. That was one of the things I mentioned is warriors make mistakes, get scared, they feel pain, they cry. Sometimes they are fighting with all the fury they can muster only to realize or fighting themselves. All of this doesn't matter because they keep going in spite of themselves because they're desperate to become who they need to be.

Starting point is 00:52:04 A better person for themselves, for the creator, for their family, for their friends. And we don't get to that point when we say, I'm going to do this on my own and I'm not going to let anybody in to help me become a better version of myself. Like I said, we all need help and when we reach out to do that, it doesn't make us weak. That's the ultimate exercise of strength is being able to cross that threshold and say, I have come to my limits on what I can do on my own, I need help.

Starting point is 00:52:31 And that's a huge leap of courage. And it's one of those things that I hope we're building a bridge, the stories that I share in the book will help people build a bridge to do that for themselves. And again, with Alex's story, his was inspiring in particular. And I hope that really sparked something and people who are struggling with this.

Starting point is 00:52:51 Yeah, thanks for addressing that. And if a veteran is listening to this, the World Angels Foundation, that's for a heroic hearts project, are three great nonprofits that you can go to, all led by veterans who are focusing on this very area. Well, I wanted to jump to chapter five, which was actually one of my favorite chapters you had in the book, because it's all about overcoming the impossible. And as I was reading it,

Starting point is 00:53:18 it made me think of my physics instructor from the Naval Academy, Wendy Lawrence, who went on to become the first female astronaut from the Naval Academy, Wendy Lawrence, who went on to become the first female astronaut from the Naval Academy distinguished graduate. And I got the opportunity to interview her for my book. And what you're saying here really goes with her mantra of you have to give yourself permission to dream the dream. And she talks about that from the time she made the decision when she was at the academy that she wanted to be an astronaut, what it took was constant action. And I loved how you went into this. And what I wanted to ask using that as a backdrop is why is discipline so important and why does so many fail to learn to attack again and again?

Starting point is 00:54:03 to so many fail, to learn to attack again and again. Great question. Discipline is the ability to harness what we have been given in this life. To be able to harness our own talent, our own ability, our own power, and without it, it doesn't matter how talented or able we are, it doesn't have an impact in our life or anybody else's. Discipline harnesses it to where it is a useful and productive energy source. For instance, having a bonfire on the beach is great. It's warm, it's throws a nice light, it's fun to be around. But if you harness that same fire the right way, you can launch a rocket into outer space. Or you can power a locomotive down a train track that's pulling 100 cars behind it. It's all about how you use what you've got.

Starting point is 00:54:45 Discipline helps us do that. A lot of people have a turn off with discipline because they've experienced discipline is more oftentimes something done to us and sometimes not very in a not very fun way either. But self discipline is being able to take that in ourselves and create a structure, create an expectation to keep developing ourselves to become a better version of us.

Starting point is 00:55:08 Discipline in our tribal communities with the warriors of the past, there were things that they did to strengthen themselves physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. That were hard things. That would be an expose to the elements, doing hard activities, running,

Starting point is 00:55:22 playing sports that were really hard. There was a whole lot of activities that were all focused on developing discipline because they knew that was going to be required in a moment where they were going to be in a fearful situation, a moment where they really needed to deliver. It doesn't happen in that moment. It happens with the training you did up to that moment. That's what discipline is. That's why it's so critical. that moment, it happens with the training you did up to that moment. That's what discipline is. That's why it's so critical.

Starting point is 00:55:45 Yes, and it's something that I think is easy to do, but hard to perfect. Kind of just like that execution is, or even meditation. The idea of meditating is not difficult, but actually falling through with discipline is what makes meditation so hard to achieve. Practice. Practice, practice, practice, practice. That's what it is. It's showing up every day and working on it. Because yeah, we never get there. I mean, discipline is one of those things that we are doing the hard thing in the moment to have a benefit down the road rather than doing the easy thing right now that has an immediate

Starting point is 00:56:22 payoff, like laying on the couch watching Netflix. It's great. It doesn't produce anything, but it feels good in the moment. Push yourself in the gym, it is uncomfortable. It's tough. It requires effort, and in the end, it makes us healthier, it makes us a little bit more stronger mentally, because we've proven ourselves that we can go in there and get through a tough workout. It translates into every other aspect of our life. How you do one thing is how you do everything. And so that discipline piece is really important. It's not about perfection. There's gonna be times where we kinda, we fund it a little bit.

Starting point is 00:56:53 And that's okay, it's getting back onto the path and not saying, well, I made this mistake, I didn't do this right, I didn't finish this tap today where I didn't finish this workout the way I wanted to. So it's all for not. People do that. It's like, no, this is part of the process. Growth is a process.

Starting point is 00:57:09 Growth is a practice. But it's definitely worth doing. Absolutely. And I don't want to give out the whole book to a listener. You put out some great concept in it, such as the fire keeper. You talk about the links. You talk about the difference between heart learning and head learning. But one about the links, you talk about the difference between heart

Starting point is 00:57:25 learning and head learning, but one of the topics that you cover a lot is about change. I liked and I'm not going to ask you to share it, but you go into the reasons that change drives us crazy. It led me to start thinking about a friend of mine, Jen Bricker-Bauer. She was also on this podcast, but if you've never heard of her, she was born without legs, and she's the author of the book, anything is possible. And in it, she mentioned a similar concept that you do in the book, and that is, she says that the universal connector is adversity. You label it as the universal connector is pain. And I thought, maybe you could just talk about that a little bit because I think when we go through these lives,

Starting point is 00:58:10 being a warrior doesn't mean you're gonna be on the top all the time. We all experience this roller coaster in life. I was glad you touched on pain, but why is it so important as you relate it to this warrior spirit and the warrior within? Because pain is a universal connector. I mean all of us have been through it We've experienced it. What we do with it is what's really important to define because sometimes we'll experience pain and go away from that thing

Starting point is 00:58:36 Yeah, avoid it even if it's something that we need to deal with But we can also look at our pain as something that we lean into and get the lesson from. What we walk away from or what we walk away with after a painful moment, that's our decision to make. Because some people go through pain and they get jaded, they get bitter. They start to feel like life is unfair. Some people go through pain and they realize, I learned a great lesson there. It wasn't easy, it wasn't fun, it was definitely uncomfortable, but I got something out of there that was precious. That's what we get to define for ourselves. We don't get to avoid

Starting point is 00:59:10 pain in life. I think when we try constantly to do that, we're missing out on the journey itself. Pain is going to be there, it's normal, it's natural, but what we get out of it on the back end is artistic. So that's why I brought that up in the book is that pain can be but what we get out of it on the back end is art and city. So that's why I brought that up in the book is that pain can be energizer, it can be a guide, it can be a teacher, or pain can just be pain. It can, like I said, make us bitter, make us avoid situations, avoid ourselves. So the decision on which of those directions we go is on us. I can have said that any better.

Starting point is 00:59:45 It's our choices that really matter and we're all going to experience adversity or pain of some sort. It's how you choose to deal with it that in the end matters. My last question is going to be, I like Tao in chapter 10, you close this out by talking about

Starting point is 01:00:00 we should all become like the Native American elders. So my question is this, why should we all establish a legacy of good? I think it's why we're here. If we're not here to do that, why are we here at all? And that's one of the things that beating heart of that warrior role coming back to service. One of the other reasons why that's so critically important to understand is because service, the way that we contribute to the world we live in, is the thing that outlives us. It's the legacy we leave behind. When our elders and our tribal communities have always and still do today, collect as much good stuff as they possibly can, as much wisdom as many stories, as much as they can so they can share it with others so that everybody benefits. They don't collect that information, those ideas to store them away or to hoard them or to use them as a tool to manipulate or control someone else. They collect that stuff to share and empower their people. And so

Starting point is 01:00:58 that's why that elder role is so valid today. It's about passing on our wisdom. It's about sharing ideas. It's about active mentorship taking somebody under our wing, helping them avoid maybe some of the pitfalls we fell into in our own life and career. Basically being able to be a benevolent source in the lives of other people. That's what that elder role was all about. It still is today. I mean, our elders and our tribal communities are precious. They are the corporate knowledge of our native communities. And that's why I shared that lesson because it's something that's relevant outside of our native communities too.

Starting point is 01:01:33 In any setting where you are surrounded by people, you actually care about, you love, that you want to see do better. We can play a role in that when we contribute to their growth and development. I love it. And DJ, if audience would like to learn more about you, what are some of the best ways they can do that? Obviously, I'll have the books and the show notes so they can order them. Yeah, nativediscovery.com is my website. I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter,

Starting point is 01:02:03 Instagram. So yeah, I'm easy to find online, but nativediscovery.com is my primary website, easiest way to reach me. Okay, and I absolutely love the book. I really liked how you had very practical wisdom, but you backed it up in every chapter with sensible stories to hunker down the points. So I've found it to be an enjoyable, easy read

Starting point is 01:02:27 with packed full, with useful information from anyone from someone who's starting their career, just someone who's in the middle, to someone who's at the end. So congratulations on a great book. I greatly appreciate that, John. That's why I wrote it. I was hoping that it would resonate like that.

Starting point is 01:02:45 But I will just say, Chimi Gwetch, thank you very much for having me on today. It was a joy having this conversation with you and hope it helps the people that tune in and they get something out of it as well. Yes, and to the audience, please go check out the Warrior Within. You won't regret it. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you, John. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with DJ Vannis and wanted to thank DJ and Penguin Random House for the honor of getting to interview him and for launching his book today.

Starting point is 01:03:14 Links to all things DJ will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you buy any of the books from the authors. Any proceeds goes to supporting this show and making it free for you our listener. Videos are on YouTube at JohnArmiles go there and check out over 340 of them. Avertizer deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support

Starting point is 01:03:41 the show. I'm at JohnArmiles both on Twitter and Instagram and you can also find me on LinkedIn. And if you want to know how I managed to book all these incredible guests, it's because of my network. Go out there and build your network before you need it. And most of the guests that are on this show subscribe to, provide their advice, and recommendations on guests. Please join us. You will be in incredible company. You're about to hear a preview of the PassionStruck podcast interview I did with Colin O'Bready, who is a 10-time world record-breaking explorer, author, speaker, entrepreneur, and expert on mindset. His feats include the first solo, unsupported, and truly human-powered crossing of Antarctica, as well as speed records for the Explorer's Grand Slam, as well as the Seven Summits.

Starting point is 01:04:30 We are powerful beyond measure inside of ourselves, but that power can either be harnessed for good, for strength, for positivity, for impact, or we can be so powerful in a negative direction. We can bring ourselves down, we can bring ourselves down, we can weigh ourselves down, we can steal our own ability to accomplish our goals to some of our own efforts. The 12-hour walk allows us to assess both things, both the good and the bad, and gives you a choice to choose that positivity, to choose that strength, conquer your mind, and unlock

Starting point is 01:04:59 your best life. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends. When you find something useful or interesting, if you know someone who could use some advice on applying the warrior within, please share this episode with your friends and family members. The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share this show with those whom you care about.

Starting point is 01:05:17 In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear so that you can live what you listen. And until next time, live life passion struck.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - D.J. Vanas on Unleashing Your Warrior Within EP 170

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