Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Dr. Marshall Goldsmith on How You Create An Earned Life EP 293

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

In this thought-provoking Passion Struck episode featuring Marshall Goldsmith, a renowned leadership coach, and best-selling author, a fundamental question is posed: Why does a life filled with continuous achievements often leave us with a sense of emptiness? Delving into ancient Buddhist wisdom, the answer becomes clear: true fulfillment and happiness stem not from merely meeting ambitious goals but from actively pursuing meaningful goals. Marshall is the author of The Earned Life: Lose Regret, Choose Fulfillment. Marshall Goldsmith Joins Me to Explore How to Create Your Earned Life. In this episode of Passion Struck, John R. Miles sits down with Marshall Goldsmith, an executive coach, business educator, and bestselling author, to discuss living an earned life. Goldsmith believes that people should focus on finding purpose and meaning in life, which will lead to fulfillment and avoid regrets. Goldsmith shares his insights on empathy, impermanence, community, and results and how they all contribute to living an earned life. Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://passionstruck.com/marshall-goldsmith-create-your-earned-life/  Brought to you by Fabric. Go to Apply today in just 10 minutes at https://meetfabric.com/passion. Brought to you by Hello Fresh. Use code passion16 to get 16 free meals, plus free shipping!” Brought to you by Indeed. Head to https://www.indeed.com/passionstruck, where you can receive a $75 credit to attract, interview, and hire in one place. --► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to: https://passionstruck.com/deals/  Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally! --► Prefer to watch this interview: https://youtu.be/K8a2wmikQdg  --► Subscribe to Our YouTube Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles  Want to find your purpose in life? I provide my six simple steps to achieving it - passionstruck.com/5-simple-steps-to-find-your-passion-in-life/ Catch my interview with Lori Gottlieb on the importance of embracing self-compassion: https://passionstruck.com/lori-gottlieb-on-embracing-self-compassion/  Watch the solo episode I did on the topic of Chronic Loneliness: https://youtu.be/aFDRk0kcM40  Want to hear my best interviews from 2022? Check out episode 233 on intentional greatness and episode 234 on intentional behavior change. ===== FOLLOW ON THE SOCIALS ===== * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnrmiles.c0m  Learn more about John: https://johnrmiles.com/  Passion Struck is now on the AMFM247 broadcasting network every Monday and Friday from 5–6 PM. Step 1: Go to TuneIn, Apple Music (or any other app, mobile or computer) Step 2: Search for “AMFM247” Network

Coming up next on Passion Struck. The people listening to us right now tend to be focused on ambition and achievement. They tend to be goal achievers. They're listening to learn things and hopefully help them achieve more. And one of the things I talk about that's very important in the earn life is never become addicted to results and never play your values of human being based on results. That's always a mistake. For two reasons.

One, you don't control the results. And two, how much long-term peace and happiness do you get after you choose results? A day? A week? Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become

the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Episode 293 of PassionStruck, ranked by Apple is one of the top 20 health podcasts. And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn,

how to live better, be better, and impact the world. And if you haven't heard yet, PassionStruck is now on syndicated radio, Monday and Friday from five to six PM, on the AM FM 247 National Broadcast. Links will be in the show notes. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here.

Or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or family member. We now have episodes, starter packs, which are collections of our fans favorite episodes that we organize in convenient topics to give any new listener a great way to understand everything that we do here on the show. Either go to Spotify or passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. In case you missed it, last week I interviewed Dr. C. McDermott, who's a precision wellness expert and holds a doctor of philosophy in integrative nutrition. C focuses on preventing disease and optimizing lifestyle through nutrition, behavioral change, mindset and stress management. C is the international best-selling author of your DNA, your life.

I also interviewed Tunde Sabamahianan and Sam Sidel about their book, Great of Hustle. We discuss how to harness your creativity, blaze your own path, and make work that matters. Please check them all out, and if you liked either of those or today's episode, we would so appreciate a five-star rating in review. These go such a long way in bringing more people into the passion-struct community, where we can teach them how to live a limitless life and provide weekly doses of hope, inspiration, and action in meaning. And I know our guests love to hear your feedback about their episodes as well. Now let's talk about today's episode. Living in Earn Life means that our choices, risks, and efforts align with the purpose that transcends

the outcomes. This may be challenging for many of us, as we're solely taught a focus on achievement and fulfillment in modern society, often at the expense of overall well-being. My guest today, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, or renowned leadership coach, has developed a simple, a powerful approach to living and earn life that takes inspiration from Buddhism. In order to avoid the trap of regret,

he suggests committing to habits of earning that is grounded in something larger than our individual achievements, such as a higher aspiration or calling. In our discussion, Goldsmith warns about falling into the trap of the great Western disease of thinking that we can only be happy when we achieve a certain goal or outcome.

Instead, he offers practical advice and exercises to help us overcome obstacles and failures of imagination that may prevent us from living a passion-struck life. By following the guidance from our interview, listeners can close the gap between their aspirations and their accomplishments and avoid the existential regrets that can derail their destinies and haunt their memories. Since 2011, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith has been consistently ranked as the top executive coach in the world and one of the top 10 business thinkers in the world at the thinkers' 50

ceremony in London. His book Triggers published in 2015 as earned the distinction of being a number one best seller on both the Wall Street Journal and New York Times lists. In addition, he is the author of the New York Times bestselling book and number one Wall Street Journal bestselling book, What Got You Here Won't Get You There, which received the Harold Longman Award for the best business book of the year. His latest New York Times bestselling book is The Earned Life.

Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your hosting guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I am absolutely humbled and honored to have Marshall Goldsmith join me on Passion Struck today. Welcome, Marshall. So happy to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Well, as we talked about before you came on the show, this has got to be one of the highlights of my career and of hosting Passion Struct because you are in the top two or three people I've ever wanted to have on the podcast. So thank you so much for joining us. Well, thank you so much again for inviting me very honored to be here. Well, we're going to talk about a number of things today,

but two of the things I wanted to share with the audience are two of your books. The first one I'm putting up here is, what got you here won't get you there. And then the second one I'm going to put up is called The Earned Life, which is Loser Grat Choose fulfillment, which is your latest best-selling book. And we're gonna be doing a deep dive primarily on that book, but I'll ask you a couple of questions

about what got you here won't get you there as well. I'm gonna start out with this. Our upbringing has a major influence on us and who we become. And your mom was an elementary teacher who appreciated brains over Braun. Because of her programming, you responded with an unshakable faith in your intelligence.

It resulted in you posting from much of your early life primarily until you completed your PhD. And I wanted to ask you, because I think this is something that happens to so many of the listeners. How did you deprogram yourself? And what is your advice to our listeners on how they can deprogram their upbringing? Well, a couple of points. One is, I met a man named Dr. Paul Hersey, and he and Ken Blanchard invented situational leadership. He was a spectacular teacher, a great guy.

And I really became a lot more ambitious after I met him. And I thought I would really like to do what this guy is doing. So I knew I wasn't him and I was able to work with him. Then after working with Paul, I got to meet Francis Hesselbine, who was

the head of the Girl Scouts, an amazing person, Peter Drucker, Warren Dennis, many of the top people in our field. And my goal in life was to be one of them. And that really changed me a great deal. I have a program now called 100 Coaches. And I went to a program called Design the Life You Love. And I was to a program called Design the Life You Love. And I was asking a question, who are your heroes? And my heroes are these very great generous teachers who are so kind to me and they're wonderful people. And she said, well, you should be more like them.

I decided to adopt 15 people to Chowale and O'Fourth Street. But when they got old, they have to do the same thing. So I've been a little video put on LinkedIn. I'm thinking, oh, maybe 100 people are applying all at up 15, but in this case, 18,000 people apply. I've adopted 400, so the program's got 100 coaches, it's a wonderful idea.

So I really have to give a lot of credit to these people who were mentors. And one thing I talk about in the book, they gave me a big message, you can be more. And as I go through life, the people that changed my life consistently gave me this message, you can be more. And sometimes I was doing pretty good as it was.

Yet I got a message I could be more. So I've got to give a lot of credit to them. Well, I wanted to ask you, I have reached the state in life where I have realized how much finite time I have. And there's many things that I would like to accomplish, especially impacting people in a positive way and helping them learn how to live as you put it in earned life. I know from reading the book, you're in a similar situation where you are treating this present moment differently. And I was wondering, how are you prioritizing the things that you want to accomplish now

against the finite time you have to do them? Well, again, I'm 74, so my time is a little more finite than yours, I guess. And what I'm doing is just saying, I want to make the biggest positive difference I can make in as many lives as possible in the time remaining I have to do it. And one of the things I'm doing right now is my Marshallbot project. I have my own custom video bot that I'm making. I'm teaching it all I know,

and it's going to give everything away for free. All of my materials available for free. You can copy, share, download, duplicate, go to YouTube, get the videos, go to my website, get all the articles. It's all free. So I just want to give away as much as I can to as many people as I can. And then also, hopefully, even when I'm no longer here, I'm training my friend Marshall Butth, to basically share what I know with

the world. We're going to begin with the text bot. We already have a text bot we're working on. Then it comes the audio bot and then finally the video bot, which is going to look and sound just like me and the metaverse bot. So we're going to be pretty exciting stuff. Wow. That is some exciting stuff. I can't wait. That comes out. Wow, that is some exciting stuff. I can't wait until that comes out. Yeah. Well, I remember about 17 years ago, I was a fast rising senior executive. I was the youngest vice president at Lowe's home improvement and was pegged in the top right hand quadrant for promotion to the sea level. And then Loes brought in a couple of corn fairy

psychologists to evaluate all of those who had the highest potential. The person I met with was named Brigette, and I will never forget what she told me during that meeting. She said that you've had this meteoric rise that others were dream for, but what got you here won't get you where you want to go. And at the time, I have to say I was unfamiliar with your book.

I was pretty upset with her because I thought things were going well. But I look upon that time and she was right. I was extremely smart, but as Arthur Brooks put it in his latest book from Strength to Strength, I possessed a lot of fluid intelligence, but what I wasn't really demonstrating was crystallized intelligence, and really operating from a point of humility, as opposed to letting my ego get the best of me. And I have this concept I talk about in the past, that I call the visionary arsonist, and it's how we allow our self-defeating behaviors

to arson the very vision and goals we hope to accomplish. And it's a similar concept to what you wrote about and what got you here won't get you there. And I was hoping you could tell the listeners why is it that we so often let our behaviors get in the way of where we want to go. Well, to start with any human or any animal will replicate behavior that's followed by positive reinforcement. And the more successful we become, the more positive reinforcement we get, as you mentioned about yourself. And what we fell into and what you fell into is something called a superstition trap. I behave this way.

I am successful. Therefore, I must be successful because I behave this way. Now, what you were learning was, yes, you behave that way. Yes, you are successful. And number one, you're probably successful because of many things you're doing and in spite of others. And two, what got you here won't get you there.

What led to that success in the past is not necessarily you there. What led to that success in the past is not necessarily what's going to lead to that success in the future. One of my great coaching clients said, for the great achievers all about me, but for the great leader it's all about them. Well, you got to make that transition from, it's all about me, as you said,

I'm so smart, I know everything, to all of a sudden make it all about them. Very difficult transition for some people. Well, speaking of leaders, you've worked with some of the most defining leaders of our time. Is there one that stands out to you that you're most proud of for the turnaround

that they accomplished while working with you? Why would say two? One of them is Francis Hefselbim. Peter Drucker said she was the greatest leader ever met. She went to the Girl Scouts who was CO for 14 years, did a spectacular turnaround of the organization, just an amazing human being. The second was my great friend, Alan Malale, who I hear from all the time, I talked to him every week. Alan, I met, I don't know, 25, 30 years ago, Alan was the President of Boeing commercial aircraft, went met, I don't know, 25, 30 years ago, Alan was the President of Boeing commercial aircraft

when over became the CO4 to stock went from $1.1 to $18.40, went up 1,837% and he had a 97% approval rating from every employee in a union company. Think about that. A CEO with a 97% approval rating from the United Auto workers, unheard of, just an amazing human being. So I would say these are two people, and as if you look at my book, The Earned Life, when you look at the endorsements, look at the first little paragraph before the endorsements, what's it say? It doesn't say I'm great, what's it say? They're great. Does it say I'm great, what's it say? They're great. Well, I had the opportunity actually to meet Alan when I was a CIO at Dell.

Michael Dell used to bring in a guest speaker to the senior leadership meetings we would have. And Alan was our keynote for one of them. And this was just after he had taken over a Ford. Yeah. And I was hoping you could tell the story about the executive meeting that he held with his direct reports and why that had such an influence

on really changing the culture of Ford and giving more empowerment, I think, to his direct reports. Well, what I would say about this is he invented something called the Business Plan Review Process, BPR, an amazing process where every week people come in and they say, here's my week, Red Yellow Green. Here's what's going well, here's what needs to change.

And then every week they have total transparency. He has very clear values. By the way, he said it takes a long time to change a corporate culture. It didn't take him a long time He basically said here's the new culture option A. We're all gonna act this way option B go simply So now when he asked people to do if you read my book what got you here won't get there's all the book Yes, people have people like Don't make bad comments about other people try to be a great team player. Don't show off all the time other people. Try to be a great team player. Don't show off all the time. Yeah. Comments and stuff. He gave me a choice. Want to do this or not? Well, sure enough.

He starts his first meeting. One guy says, well, if I want to make bad comments about other people, I can. So what do you say? Thank you for sharing. Sure again. Great career somewhere. Just not here. Come on. And so then next guy challenged him out. 14 of the 16 people that led the company to bankruptcy. Same people turned to company around. What changed? He changed. The corporate culture changed. Oh yeah, it changed very quickly. He's an amazing guy. So in these BPR meetings, every week total transparency, people talk about what's going well. What isn't? He rewards people who tell the truth. His first meeting, the company was losing $17 billion,

not million, billion with the B dollars. He says, okay, top 16 people, five priorities, each red, yellow, green on plant, yellow, not on plant, but have a strategy and red, not on plant no strategy. The first meeting, 16 times five, 80 green, everybody said they're on plant. 16 times 5 80 green. Everybody said they're on plant. So Alan said, well, this is puzzling. We're losing 17 billion dollars and we're all on plant. He goes, I think it's a bad plant. It's a bad plant. We're losing 17 billion and it's not okay, right? Do it again. Finally, somebody said red. He stands up in a plodged and he says, thank you so much for telling the truth. Getting people just tell the truth. And you know, nothing about Alan, he never fakes it.

So if somebody asks him a question, Alan, what's your idea about this? Which is, is there anyone in the Ford Motor Company or anyone we can hire who can answer that question better than me? The answer is yes. Why am I speaking? See, you learned a great lesson. In my book, Quick Guy, you hear I said, don't add too much value. One of my great coaching clients was JP Garnier, he was a CEO of Glauks, salesman of client. So I asked JP, would you learn about leadership as a CEO of this

company? So I learned a very hard lesson. My suggestions would come orders. Now, if they're smart to words, they're stupid to orders. Warm to orders or orders and run. Now, you were in the Navy. For nine years, I trained the new animals in the Navy. What was the first thing I gave when I get a star? Tell them one thing, you get that star, your suggestions become orders. Adults don't make suggestions. That animal makes a suggestion, what's the response? And I, I, sir, that suggestion becomes an order. So I said to JP, would you learn from me when I was your coach? He said, before I speak, breathe, and ask myself, is it worth it? Well, it's a great lesson from Alan. If you're not the expert and you're the CEO, don't talk. Anything you say will probably do more harm than good. Don't fake it. Don't

talk. Don't babble. Just say, let's find somebody that knows more than me. And by the way, don't be ashamed. Don't be ashamed that you're not the expert on everything. You shouldn't be. If you're a CEO, you're about marketing than the marketing people and finance and the finance people and HR than HR people, you don't have a leadership, probably a selection problem, you get the wrong team. They're supposed to know more than you. Well, don't get up and babble, don't pretend to know stuff, tell the truth and have them tell the truth. So, Allen's process called the BPR led to something I did over COVID with Mark Thompson, called the LPR.

And if you're looking at the book, I talk about it. We had 60 amazing people every weekend. We spent 600 hours over COVID with these people. And every weekend, they talked about their lives. Same principles, very honest, straight forward. Here's what, well, here's what didn't. They would always ask for help. Well, they'd say, please help me

and we practice something called feed forward. How does that work? Yes, for input. People give you input. You say, thank you. You don't promise to do everything. You listen and do what you can. So we did this for two years over code.

And the people are in the group, not a secret. They were in Pagasal, the basketball player, Curtis Martin, the football star. We had the head of the Olympic Committee, that Broadway star, the head of the Rockefeller Foundation, World Bank, just amazing people every week. And I've learned that from Alan. What a group of diversified and fantastic people to have on that weekly meeting. Right. What were some of the biggest takeaways that you had from it? Take away number one, we're all human beings.

We're all human. Take away number two, more than half the discussion and nothing to do with work. You can be as famous as you want to, but you still get kids who are depressed. Still, they're at the list, he had parents with Alzheimer's disease. Nobody gets a pass. Nobody gets a pass in life. You can have all the money and status and fame. You think you got a pass?

No, you don't. We're all just human beings struggling around trying to make it through the day. And so when you hang around with these people long enough, you realize that you get beneath that bio and all that fancy stuff. We're all just people here just trying to make it through the day. And it's hard. It's very hard. So one of the things everyone practiced in that group

is called the daily question process, which I will now teach to your listeners, which takes three minutes a day. We'll help you get better and almost anything. You know what some people are thinking? a day. We'll help you get better and almost anything You know what some people are thinking three minutes a day help me get better and almost anything ridiculous. That sounds too good to be true Half the people start doing this quit within two weeks And they don't quit because it doesn't work they quit because it does work. It's hard to do Get out of spreadsheet make a list of the questions represent what's most important in your life, friends, family, coworkers, et cetera. Seven boxes across one fair every day of the week,

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, every question is answered with a SNOR number, fill it out. Into the week you get a report card. I'm gonna warn you, or listeners in advance, that report card at the end of the week might not be quite as beautiful as that corporate values plaque you see stuck up on the wall. I've been doing this 25 years.

You do this every day in which you quickly learn life. Life is incredibly easy to talk. It's very hard to live. And you do this every day. You don't look at those talk values. Those things are beautiful. Look at those live values. Not so pretty.

By the way, people ask me if I have a coach. If someone called me on the phone to help me every day for 25 years, almost every day, why? My name is Marshall Goldsmith. I'm too cowardly and undisciplined to do any of this stuff by myself. I need help. Guess what? It's okay. Those 60 people, everyone, I mean, what they said every weekend, I need help. It's okay. us are perfect. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. What is the most important step a listener can take to reversing the pattern of self-defeating actions that they're taking? Well, first is, I'm going to share two dimensions. First is called stakeholder centered leadership development. Ask a question. Figure out what you want to do better. Say, how can I be a better,

talk to everyone around you, listen to their great ideas, don't put them down, say thank you, and then follow up on a regular basis. Now I've written a couple of articles, so if any of your listeners would like the articles, or ones called leadership as a context board, and that describes how to do this, any other ones about the active questions. So step one is try that. The research is compelling. If you get feedback, you talk to people about your learn, you apologize for mistakes and follow up on regular basis. Guess what, you get better. Not a theory.

I mean, research from 86,000 people, you get better. Second thing I'd recommend is daily questions. Write down a list of those questions that represent what's most important, I'll give you six questions to start with. On the album, again with the phrase, did I do my best too? Did I do my best today to set clear goals?

Did I do my best to basically make progress toward achieving my goals? Did I do my best to find meaning? Did I do my best to be happy? Did I do my best to be fully engaged? And did I do my best to develop relationships with people? Did I do my best to be happy. Did I do my best to be fully engaged and did I do my best to develop relationships with people? Did I do my best every day? Now let me ask you a question.

Have you ever tried the daily question process? I have. It was something that I used when I read your books about a decade ago. How long did you make it before you quit? I think I made it about a year and a half. That's pretty good. I transitioned from Lowe's into Dell and it's something I wish I would have kept doing when I went into Dell for a longer period of time. It's hard to do.

As you know, you tried for a year and a half, it's hard. It's easy to quit. You know, it's tough to look in a mirror every day. It is very hard to look in that mirror every day. That's why I have someone call me every day. I know it's hard to do by yourself. Well, as you and I spoke about at the beginning of the podcast before you came on. Passion struck in many ways is teaching people how to live intentionally, but that is really teaching them how to align action, ambition, and aspiration, which are three of the

core elements in the earned life. And I wanted to start out this discussion by you sharing a story of yourself. And I was hoping you could tell the audience how a surfing mishap taught you how to calculate risks and opportunities. Well, I was 27 years old, right? And I was with my friends at all macho. I had my little boogie board at that. I don't know anything about surfing. I'm not a great athlete, right? And you get lucky, right?

A couple of waves. They get bigger and bigger. Oh, go for it. Go for it. Well, here comes a nine foot wave, right? If you're not good at surfing, you should be messing with a nine foot wave, right? Side to side, I'm gonna ride this nine foot wave, right?

Well, what happens is, I flip over and break my neck in two places. I'm very lucky to be alive, very lucky not to be quadriplegic. Why analyze that? Why was I doing that? Well, I was doing that because it was short term gratification. It was fun, it was exciting, it was a risk. But what I wasn't thinking about is, from the big perspective of my life, that was insane. I'm lucky I can even walk. I'm not an athlete. I wasn't going to be an athlete. I'm not a surfer. I was going to be a great surfer. Who was I can't in here?

I just totally got lost in the moment, which happens to us all the time. So the one thing you mentioned is in the book The Earned Life. What does it take to have a great life anyway? Well, one, take care of your health. Two, have great relationships with Poverloaf. And then three, you need a middle class, to lower middle class, gotta have income. Beyond that money's not gonna make any happier anyway.

Assuming that you have great relationship with Poverloaf the lower middle class got a income. Beyond that money's not going to make any happier anyway. Assuming that you have grave relationship with people you love and you're healthy and you got a middle of the lower middle class income, what matters? Three things we've discussed that you brought up. The first one is, what's your aspiration? Why am I doing this? What is the purpose of me being here on the earth

other than showing up every day? Why? You need a higher level of aspiration and the aspiration doesn't have a finish line. Two, we need to have ambition that is aligned with that aspiration. That's achievement. We need to have achievements. Now achievements have a finite finish line, but there are actual goals. We achieve these goals and hopefully are connected to our aspirations. Then three, our actions are, what are we doing now? And hopefully we enjoy or engage in the day-to-day process of life itself and what we're doing now.

To the degree, these three things can be aligned in the game of life, you just want. Now your listeners, I can make a good guess. Most human beings are lost in the action phase. That was me surfing. Most humans in the history of the world, they don't think about higher ambitions or aspirations. Why? They stay in alive. They play the video game, they show up for work, they do what they're told. Most humans just exist. Most our ancestors are extremely poor people. They have a really choice. That's what they did. Not bad or good. It just is. Some people are lost in their heads. They're stuck in that aspiration phase. They have lofty goals, ideas, but they don't too much to execute. They just think a lot about it. The people listening to you and me right now, I can bet

have neither one of those problems. The people listening to us right now tend to be focused on ambition and achievement. They tend to be goal achievers, they're listening to learn things and hopefully help them achieve more. And one of the things I talk about that's very important in the earned life is never become addicted to results and never place your values of human being based on results. That's always a mistake for two reasons. One, you don't control the results. And two, how much long-term peace and happiness do you get after you choose results? A day, a week? Yeah, you worked in big corporations, right? You know what

this is like. One of the guys that endorsed the book, I'm very proud of his Albert Burla, the CL5's. I called Albert a couple of years ago. I said Albert, how's it going? Hey, big year came up with that vaccine thing. Say, a million lives. I said, hey, good job Albert.

Employing engagement all time. Hi, hey, very good. Stock price to the roof. He was seeing the year. I said to Valberto, which problem? Is that a weird problem next year? Next year, if Albert's value as a human being is just to achieve more than last year, it's never going to happen. Michael Phelps, 25 gold medals.

What do you think about doing after winning number 25? Killin' himself. You can't get lost in that stuff because when you do, you can number one, forget, what is my purpose here? Why am I doing this? And number two, you can forget to enjoy life. You can forget to enjoy the process of life itself. So for your listeners, I think very important to balance the three.

And then finally, one of the guys that our group is Safi Bakal, a brilliant scientist, and he said, one thing I learned the last two years, he used to think, if I achieve more, I will be happy. He said, I realize something. Happiness and achievement are independent variables. Everyone in the group has achieved a lot. Some of them are extremely happy and some are miserable. Well, you can achieve nothing to be happy and achieve nothing to be miserable. I finally learned that I used to believe that if I just achieved more, I would be happy. I realized that's not true. I said, I'm glad you finally realized that you already have a PhD in physics from Stanford. You're a zillionaire who started four companies successfully.

You wrote a book called Loon Shots, which is New York Times best seller, and you've consulted the presidents. Now, if that is not enough achievement to make you happy, you really believe a little more is going to matter. You think a little more is going to get the ball over the line? Nope. Not so much. No, I know in my own personal life, that was me earlier in my career. I was focused on success. I was focused on recognition. I was focused on money. I was focused on all those things,

and I found myself emotionally broken. Right. Because those things are never going to bring you the things in life that you want. It's as you talked about it, the first time you don't have good health is when you realize the importance of having good health. Right. As I interviewed my friend Bob Waldinger who led the Harvard study on adult aging, it's human connection that's extremely important. And lastly, as you brought up, it's having a meaning and purpose that is driving you to want to get up in the day and do something meaningful in service of humanity and service of others. And those are the things that I find bring me the most joy. People hear the statistics I have

on the podcast, and my fiancee especially is like, why don't you celebrate these things? Because that's not the metric that matters. The metric that matters is, are we changing lives in a positive way and helping people become more fulfilled? That's the thing that matters most. And I think that's an important lesson for people to learn. I did want to quote one thing that you had in the book because I think it's extremely important. You write, when these three independent variables of aspiration, in ambition, and action become interdependent, serving one another, we become unstoppable. And I wanted to ask, because this is where a lot of people put their focus, what happens when we over-focus on action at the expense of aspiration and ambition? Well, that is very common.

I'll give you an extreme example. I was focusing on action at the expense of everything where I was surfing. I was lost in the moment trying to get a cheap thrill. If you look at it, I never understood, for example, people play slot machines. Why would anyone do that? I mean, have a background in mathematics,

you seem insane to me. And by the way, they tell you the odds, it's not like a trick. You can walk in. The casino will give you the exact odds, which you know are bad, right? Yet they spend hours doing this stuff. Why? Well, I realized I was looking at them from my perspective. I've typically had a long-term perspective in life. I've done lots of books. I have a PhD. Things that are long-term perspective in life have done lots of books, have a PhD, things that are long-term. If I look at your time horizon as one minute, not like I looked at life, well, you're sitting there, you've got some coins,

there's a machine, the way you can maximize your benefit for one minute is put the money in the machine and pull the lever. That's the best short-term thing you could possibly do and that's what they do. The problem is they are sacrificing their lives for the short-term gratification. Look, I'm going to give you some tragic examples. About 25 years ago, I was in a book called Community of the Future, I wrote an article that said, there's going to be something that produces TV quality audio visual online. And when that happens, media addiction will first pass drug addiction, alcohol addiction

combined is a social problem. But we are there. Media addiction or society is complete, unmitigated disaster. Why? People are musing themselves to death. Do you know PewDiePie is? I do not. PewDiePie is looking up at sarcarkestik Swedish Guy that plays video games and people watch

him. How many times have people watched this Sarkestik Swedish Guy play video games? 29 billion. Oh my gosh. There are only 8 billion people on the earth. 29 billion times. Why? They're getting some short term adrenaline rush rush, some short-term laugh,

but there's no meaning there. There's no meaning behind it. So what happens is when we get addicted to this short-term gratification and we don't have meaning, that's why people are drug addicts. That's why 29 billion views of PewDiePie, the Kardashians, all this other nonsense. Why? People's lives disappear. They're just amusing themselves to death. Marshall, I'm really glad you brought that up. I've done a number of episodes this year purposefully on digital addiction and the consequences that it has on human connections on your purpose

on your meaning when you're basing your life, and in many cases, living your life based on what you're seeing others do instead of being authentically you and having real life human interactions and purposeful meaning. And the other thing I've really tried to concentrate on is giving people hope because so many people today have chronic loneliness, which I think is also tied to this cyber world that we're finding ourselves in. I was very pleased to see that the search in general has just announced a new effort to confront loneliness and one of the things that he is trying to do

is to get the tech companies to provide more data on what they're collecting, what they're doing and how they're influencing people so that they can start trying to unwind this. And I was just hoping they're not going to unwind this. They get paid for this. They get paid to make your kid addicted to this stuff. And the more addicted they are, the more money they make. They're not going to unwind this. Either some regulators going to unwind it, or it's not going to get unwound. Well, that was the exact discussion I had with Gaia Bernstein, who's a professor at St. Hall, and she said that she thinks the best solution to this

after examining it would be to come at this from a legal and regulatory standpoint, where just as people started talking about the harms of smoking, you do the same thing around this use. So I think that's the only systematic way that you can go about starting to limit its use because the tech companies have no incentive at all to change. No, well, let me give you a couple of examples. My friend Martin Lindstrom was a world of thought in this, Martin Lindstrom does not even have a smartphone. He feels the impact is so negative. So I'm talking to Martin who's working

on the world's largest metaverse project right now. And by the way, if you think video games are addictive now, that is nothing compared to what's coming with the metaverse. These things are gonna be totally addictive. So I said to Martin, why are you doing this? Why are you doing this at all? Because this has the potential to be just ridiculously addictive. If you know what I said, I thought it was very profound.

He said, option A, I can be a grumpy old man and stands outside the door and begs pots and pans and complaints, option B, do something good. You know what I said? Do something good. That's why I'm working on my own AI bot project. Why? I want you to do something good. Well you can sit outside the door and complain. This stuff's going to happen. AI's not going to go away. There's not going

to be any six months wait. That's not going to happen. That's not real. It's going to happen. I know enough about that. I can tell you I've been working on for the last two or three months. It's going to happen. Option A, do something good with it. or option B, sit out and complain. So I've chosen, let's do something good here. Let's just do something good. Hey, and social media is not all awful. I've got 1.5 million followers on LinkedIn. Hopefully they get something positive out of it. Well, hopefully they get something positive out of it. No, I agree with you. There are positive elements. I'm going to coach in moment, coaching moment, coaching. Are you ready for some personal coaching?

Yes. I said something you agreed with. And what was the first word out of your mouth after I spoke? Do you know what that word was? It's a negative. You said no. No, I agree with you. Now, this was? It's a negative. You said no. No, I agree with you. Now this time I teach all my clients.

The most common phrase uttered by smart people when somebody tells us something we agree with and already know is no, I agree with you. Why did you say no, I agree with you? The answer is incredibly difficult for a smart person. Here's someone tell us something we already know. Without us pointing out, we already knew it. No, I agree with you.

It means no martial. I already knew that. So I just tell you something. The next time person says something, you think it's a good insight. That's a great idea. Don't say no. Well, thank you for that. I find my clients $20 every time they do that. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because we're oftentimes our worst observer of our own

behaviors. Speaking of behaviors, I believe a hefty chunk of our path to fulfillment is determined by our intentional thoughts and behaviors. What this means is that living a fulfilled life is significantly influenced by what we deliberately think and do. But oftentimes we make daily choices that take us further away from living a fulfilled or earned life. What at the core of our triggers makes us do the least appealing choices and decisions in our life? And this is really a question about your book, Trudders. Well, it's very difficult. The reality is as we journey through life, we're constantly bombarded by triggers. What's a trigger? Any

stimulus influences our behavior. So we begin the day with these grandiose plans about what we're going to do for the day. I'm going to go on a diet. Well, that's nice. The end of the day, you're tired, you're hungry. Take looks good, bacon, all of a sudden, what happens all that willpower thing? It's gone. It is just gone. Well, this stuff is hard to do. Willpower, to me, is grossly overrated. To me, get over the shame of asking for help. We all need help. As I mentioned, I need help. I have somebody call me up every day to help me.

We all need help. How about that willpower stuff? Well, why don't we all have willpower? You know what? Because we're human beings. If we all had willpower, we'd all be in perfect shape and work out every day and look great. And we're humans. The people I coach need help. All those fancy names in the book, they need help.

I need help. Twilight Tharps world's greatest choreographer. Same personal trainer for 27 years. Why? The trainer's not teaching or anything new. Trainers making sure she does what she knows she's supposed to. She won't do it by herself. Just get over this macho stuff. Yeah, how can I convince people to do all this stuff on their own so I don't need help? I mean, as long as you probably can't. I can't, I can't. I'm too weak. I need help. All the people like I mean the top 10 tennis players have coaches. 10. 10. Why? I want to help. We all need help. It's okay. Uberge O'League. Right CEO of Best Buy that turned around the company. He's a great person of coach.

He stands up in front of everybody from day one. He says, you don't need me. I need you. I need help. I want to be the best CEO. It can be. I have a coach. I get feedback. I'm trying to improve.

Please help me improve. Please help me. By the way, spectacular success in a company that was going bankrupt. What did he lead with? I need help. We all need help. Everyone in the company was instructing, everybody picks something to do and try to get help. We all need help.

I teach people. Pick something to improve. And if you can't think of anything you need help on, try humility. Yeah, you got nothing to you about something that I feel has been a weakness for me that I strive to try to make better and that is empathy. And I think possessing empathy has been a core weakness for me. And you finished this book by talking about the importance of empathy when it comes to living and earn life. And I wanted to ask, what is the importance of empathy in helping us build positive relationships that lead

to making a positive difference, which I hope any listener would want to make. Empathy is, I talk about in the book, I don't talk about it in a simplistic way. I talk about both sides of empathy, the positive and the negative side of empathy. First, the positive side of empathy, there are different types of empathy. One is, empathy means being able to put yourself in the other person's position, understanding how they feel,

and caring about them, and taking action to help them get better, obviously a very positive thing in many ways. One type of empathy is empathy of understanding. I understand where you're coming from. Now I'm good at that one. I've years of training in that. I can often see things in people I can't see in themselves just because I've been trained years and years to do this,

right? Typically good could be bad. Advertisers totally understand this. They can manipulate us very easily. My friend Martin Lindstrom says 85% of our decisions are controlled by factors. We don't even understand. Let's take Budweiser beer. They got an ad with a dog and a horse. You ever seen an ad little dog in the horse, right? Very cute. You think any man ever walks in a liquor store? You don't want to buy it, but why was your beer? Because I love that little dog in the horse. No, they would never say that. That is exactly why they're buying the beer. They don't even know it. By the way, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on those ads.

That means they're selling hundreds of millions of dollars plus in more beer. That means they're selling hundreds of millions of dollars plus in more beer. Then I'm doing that for no reason. Well, they're high on propaganda people, very good at the empathy of understanding, social media, very good at that stuff. Could be good, could be bad. The next type of empathy is, I feel your pain, the empathy of feeling. Well, could be good, could be a disaster. One of my good people, the clients, is Dr. Patrick Frius, head of the Rady Children's Hospital. He said, the first two months of his job as an intern, he went home and cried every night.

He found her, I can't do that. I can't carry this stuff around. I've got a wife, I've got kids, I've got a wife, I can't do it and be a professional in this field. You gotta learn to let go of that stuff. So it's good to feel people's pain to understand them to a point. And then you need to be able to back away so you can be a professional. The next thing that is the empathy of caring.

Now, that's obviously good. I care about other people. I want to help them very positive. Fun example, I use in the book, those of all people, a hedge fund manager. A hedge fund manager. I'm watching this $1 billion guy interview the $3 billion guy. This is years ago, today they're probably worth $5.15. And the $1 billion guy says, the $3 billion guy, why are you quit doing this?

Why don't you have a fund? You know what he said? I'm not, I was good. He said, well why weren't you as good? More than you ever did. He said, I started caring. I said, when I was young, I didn't care. I just take risks, do things.

And I did want to thought it was a good bet. I grew older. I thought, this is a retirement account. This is your health care. I had to be careful here. And he said, you know what? I became much more conservative and much less effective. That's why I only invest my own money now.

Fascinating story, by the way. The guy's name is Stanley Druckermueller and right now, through his credit, he's just doing good deeds with his money. He's out there trying to make the world better, so God bless the guy. But it's an interesting story about caring. That's because burnout is just caring. And then the final thing is empathy of action or doing. Well, I don't just care about you. I do something to help you. Well, the problem with that is sometimes we create dependency. One of the nicest people I met, she said, my biggest problem is I'm a fixer. I solve everyone else's problems for them. So all of these are good and bad. What you need is here's the optimal empathy. I need to be what I need to be for you now.

Am I being the person I need to be right now? And one of the guys in our group is Telly Lung. He played the role of Aladdin on Broadway. He was a lad in for three years. I said, Telly, how'd you do it every night? Three years, he said, I have to demonstrate empathy out there. I mean, he's gay. He said, I may be gay, but I fall over the princess every night, right?

And he said, when he was a kid, his life probably wasn't that easy. Eight year old boy went to Broadway play. And he said or the music and dancing and singing, he made him so happy. He never forgot it. He said every night he gets on that stage, he says, this is for your little kid. And he said, if there's one little kid in that audience, that he's able to do this for? That's why it's there. So to me, the essence of empathy is not that I'm sensitive. I'm being what I need to be for you.

I'm being what I need to be for you. So for example, you go to St. Jude's Children's Hospital, the first thing teachers don't cry in front of the kids. It's hard. I can, if you haven't been there, it's hard. My first rate, I just went to bathroom and start crying. It's hard because they're dying. That doesn't make the kid feel better. Do you have to think, well, what they need, not what you need. So to me, the key of empathy is, well, am I being who I need to be for you? Not, am I just talking about how I feel about things. Thank you for sharing that. And one of my favorite episodes that I did last year was with Dan Pink on his book, The Power of Regret,

where he talked about how we can learn from our past regrets. And the earned life is really about supersized, exextential regret. Something I found interesting when I was reading it is that you brought up a number of examples of people on the outside who appeared to be by anyone who was observing, paragons of fulfillment, but were actually tormented by existential regret. It surprised me. Did it surprise you as well? It did then.

It doesn't now. Again, after spending so much time with so many successful people, I've learned that to end a bio or resume stuff, happiness, achievement, fulfillment. These are independent variables. What we want to believe is if I achieve I will be happy, find peace, whatever. If I get the money I will. Now why do we believe this? Our society hammers the Great Western Art Forum. I'm never ever seen this before. But the Great Western Art Forum sounds like this there is a person who said, oh so sad, they spend money, they is a person who's sad. No, no, no, no, no, so sad. They spend money. They buy a product and they become happy.

This is called a commercial. Have you ever seen one of those before? How many million times have you heard that same message? It's always the same. You know what the message is? The answer is out there. The reality is the answer is not out there. There are not enough money, products, or anything you're going to buy. You know where the answer is not out there. They're not enough money, products, or anything you're going to buy.

You know where the answer is? It's in here. You're absolutely right. It's that emotional sense of trying to take that action that makes you feel better. Right. action that makes you feel better. In the book, you have five recurring themes that come up consistently, and that's purpose, presence, community, impermanence, and results. And over the past weekend, I visited my sister who lives in Austin and is a practicing Buddhist. And one of the core principles of Buddhism, and she and I talked about it, is imper practicing Buddhist. And one of the core principles of Buddhism and she and I talked about it is impermanence.

And I wanted to ask you in case the listener is not familiar with this term, what is impermanence and why is the singleness of our identity and character and an illusion? Well, what happens is, and you've discussed this with me before, this is who I am mindset, as if that's somehow unchangeable. And we've been programmed to believe these things since we were children. You're the smart one, the funny one, the clever one, the stupid one, the lazy one, the

whatever one, right? You, I'm guessing, were brought up to believe you were the responsible one. Is that a good bet, a good bet or a bad bet? Good bet. Yeah, good bet. Well, that's good. But if you're not carefully feel like you have to be responsible for everybody and you're responsible for all the time and if you're not responsible, you feel guilty and nothing wrong with being responsible, the problem is when you always have to be responsible.

I did this in a hospital last year. How many of you are programmed to believe you're the responsible one? 300 people, 300 raise their hands, three women start crying. One woman said, I'm sick of being responsible all the time. I'm responsible for everything. I don't get to have fun. Nothing wrong with being responsible to when you always have to be responsible. That's the problem. Nothing wrong with being funny. It's when you always have to be funny. Nothing wrong with being smart. When you always have to prove your smart. So the

Buddhist concept of impermanence is there's nothing permanent here. Everything is constantly changing in life. The you that's here today, the you that's here after this Zoom call is not the same you that was here before the Zoom call. So, yeah, the Buddhist philosophy in the book is every time I take a breath, it's the new me. And when we take a new breath, a new me, it's starting over time. And what you did wrong in the past, you did, there's no one going to be changing it anyway. Let it go. We can't change the past. Just start from today. Let me give everybody a little exercise that helped take a breath. Take a breath. The breath. Everything that happened before the second of your life was done by an infinite set of people. Previous use.

Previous use. Now think of all the gifts those previous use were given to you, it's listening to me. Now, think about how hard they tried. All the people helped. If anybody did that many nice things, what should you say to those nice people? Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Did they make some mistakes? Who's the first person we needed to learn to forgive? Let's forgive this person. Yeah, self forgiveness is the hardest thing to do, but if you're gonna show kindness and forgiveness to others, it's impossible to do it if we don't first show it to ourselves. And I really love that every breath paradigm chapter that you had and the knowledge of how you accept the primacy of now, which I think is an important concept.

Yeah, I agree. And the reality is there's only one second in time you can ever be happy. Now it's only one place you're gonna be happy here. That's it. It's not somewhere else out there or you're gonna get there. You're not going to this place for all of a sudden you're gonna be happy all the time. There's no such place. Now, is it? My philosophy wears Nirvana. This is some old guy talking on the podcast. That's about it. It's not out there in some place. No, it's now. Well, we talked earlier about happiness and so many people

pursue it through the wrong lens. And in the book, you write that our defense response in life is not to experience meaning or happiness. Our default response is to experience inertia. Can you explain why inertia is the most resonant and detrimental opponent of change? What happens is we often confuse that word inertia with stopping or inertia with being still. A inertia doesn't mean that. A inertia is continuing or inertia with being still. A inertia doesn't mean that inertia is continuing what you've been doing. Well, I'll tend to do what we've been doing say what we've saying go what we've go where we've been going. It is very hard to break the power of inertia.

I used an example in the book, they're in life of Paul Hersey, my mentor calls me in and I went to work for him. I was very successful. I called me in when he said, you know what, you're not gonna be who you could be. You're making too much money. Your clients are very happy. You're running around like checking with your head cut off.

And nothing wrong. You're gonna have a good life. You're gonna have happy clients. You're never gonna be the person you could be. You're too comfortable. Well, he was right. That changed my life. I started thinking, being original, creating.

Well, it was a nurture. There was nothing wrong with where I was. So his point was, you can be more. And it's hard to be different and be the same at the same time. And when we're just doing what we've been doing to the past, unlikely to expect to get much better. Well, it definitely leads us down the path of persistently sitting in the state of status quo, which is where I think so many people end up and then they don't realize how to break free

from a nurses' grasp. And that's first step you take to changing your direction is the hardest one and then it becomes a multiplying effect I have found personally after that. I agree. So another important point I wanted to cover is this one. Susan between two or three valid ideas for our life is a source of confusion for many people. Why do we suffer from a failure of imagination? Well, a couple of thoughts on that.

One, I do a lot of counseling with transitioning CEOs. These are people leaving a big job. And by the way, these things run the gamut from hilarious to tragic. And they got to make a transition. What's coming up next? I can tell you, it's very challenging for many of them. One guy who had funny stories, Mike was a seal Walmart and he went to our class

a little, you know, what next, right? So he said, I was a seal Walmart and his little joke I told. He was a clean joke, didn't offend anybody or laughing at the joke. I love my little joke. He said, I retired. And I told my little joke, he said, no one left. He thought, well, they must be grumpy. Second group, tell my little joke, no one left. He thought, well, they must be grumpy. Second group, tell my little joke again. No way left. He said, finally, my wife said, you idiot, did you believe that was funny?

We see when he was CEO of Walmart, that joke was real funny. He could be in the CEO of Walmart, nah, so much. Well, it is hard to change. It is hard to transition. It is hard to leave where we've been to go somewhere else. And by the way, I'm not just talking about going up. I'm talking about also transitioning out. It is really a challenge. I've had probably more experience from transitioning CEOs in the world.

I can tell you. It's a drama. It's usually a drama getting through this. And all of a sudden, they realize everyone in the world doesn't kiss my butt and my jokes aren't really funny and all these people pretend to love me, don't. It's tough. It sounds great. Well, once it hits you, it's hard. I'm going to be playing bad golf with the whole minute, the country club and eating chicken sandwiches all day. Maybe not. That's so great. So I think back to what you're talking about, it is hard to go through not. That's so great. So I think back to what you're talking about, it is hard to go through transitions. That would just mean necessarily traditional up transitions.

It's hard to go from being a success. It's hard to go from winning the Olympics. It's hard to go from being the Broadway star. Pagasov. He's in the book. Hey, I'm proud of him. He made it to the Olympics, but it's over. He's 40 something years old. That's it. It's no more. He's got to create the rest of his life. Well, there were two last things I wanted to cover with you. And one of them is a core component of your book is a core component of passion struck and what I'm trying to do. And that is being passion struck is all about taking intentional risks,

making choices and taking actions that align with an overarching purpose in our lives. But regardless of the outcome that they achieve. And I think that's the hardest thing for people to understand. I was hoping you could discuss that element, because I think it's extremely important. Well, I think very important. John Wooden, probably the greatest college basketball approach in history, he never focused on results. He never focused on winning. He said, the process, you show up, you do your best to win, be proud. You show up, you do your best and lose, be proud. You can't control the outcome. You may or may not win. Do your best. He also said, you show up, you don't do your best and win. You have nothing to be proud of. All you can control

is the process of life. So back to your good question, really, you're never going to find peace and happiness in an outcome of any type. In life, it's not about an outcome, it's about a process. It's the existence of our day-to-day lives, enjoying the process of life, finding meaning in the process of life, and making peace with that. You end back to risk, and you don't always win when you do this. Sometimes you lose. Okay? Make peace. You're not going to always win. If you think you have to win all the time, you're never going to take a risk. The only people who win all the time don't take risk. You've got to take a risk. Well, sometimes you lose. It's okay.

The key is when you're focused on the process of life itself and you're doing the best at the process, make peace. As John Win said, that's all you can do. The coach you do. Same thing. Mike, coach K. Player hits a great shot jumping up and down. What does he say?

Next play. Player hits a bad shot. up and down. What does he say? Next play. Player hits a bad shot. Next play. Mike, that shot's over. Now I give a story. The golfer and the beer can. The golfer is lined up to hit the ball. Has a chance to win the club championship.

Noisy people in front of him drinking beer, making noise. It's a beautiful shot. Bim! It goes into the rough. Oh, terrible. What happened? He walks toward the ball. It's a beautiful shot. It goes into the rough. Oh, terrible. What happened? He walks toward the ball. There's a beer can. The idiots in front of him left a beer can and his ball hit the beer can. He's live it. What's it all forgot to do? Forget about the results. Forget about what happened. Forget about the drive. Forget about the idiots. Forget about winning the club championship. Read, hit the shot in front of you. All the golfers can do is hit the shot in front of you. You have a strategy,

you hit the shot in front of you. If you're thinking about anything else but that, they're going in the wrong direction. If you're thinking about winning the club championship and jumping up and down and cheering, that doesn't help. Focus on the process of what you're doing now. I think that's a great analogy because how many times have we seen someone with a huge lead in a golf tournament only to hit one bad shot and then that turns into another bad shot and before they know it, they end up losing because they couldn't get out of their own mind. That's it. Yeah, great examples.

One of my most favorite aspects about the book, and that is an earn life is being engaged in the process of constantly earning such a life. And I was hoping to lead you where you're going that you could leave the audience with a point of significance on if they're listening to this episode or read your book, what is a key takeaway that you would like them to get from our time here today? Here's just a key takeaway to everybody, Okay. And any class regardless of the book, breathe. Imagine that you're 95 years old and you're just getting ready to die. It's all over. Here comes that last breath. It gave you a beautiful gift. The ability to go back in time and talk to the person listening to me right now. The ability to help that person be a better leader, much more important. The ability to help that person have a better life. What

advice would that wise 95-year-old you who knows what matters in life, what didn't matter, what was important, what wasn't important, what advice would that wise old you have for the you that's listening to me right now. Whatever you're thinking now, do that. In terms of performance of praise, I'd say, oh, we want it's going to matter. That old person says you did the right thing you did. That'll purge the situational state you did. You don't have to impress anybody else. Some friends might interview it, all people who are dying to get this question. What advice would you have? Number one, be happy now.

Not next week, not next month, not next year. The Great Western Disease, I'll be happy when I get the money status, P.M.W. etc. There's not such place. Be happy now. If you're listening to me, there's a very high probability you're younger than I am. You've got a lot of years I don't have. Enjoy these years. They pass fast. Number two is friends and family. Never get so busy climbing that ladder of success. You forget the people you love. Well you're

no man. They're the only ones there anyway. And then back to your point though number three is you had a dream go for it. What is that higher aspiration? What is that thing you want to achieve? What's important for you? Just go for it. And by the way, you may not win back to results. You tried old people. We almost never regret those risks. We take it fail. We were regrets. We regret the risk we failed to take business fights. Nothing but you're never going to have fun life is short. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, I'm not seeing leave immediately, but start looking for another job life too short.

Next, and you're an example of this in your own life too, whatever you can do to help people. Now, the main reason to help people, the main reason you're doing this, has nothing to do with money or status or getting ahead. The main reason to help people is simple. The 95-year-old you will be very proud of you because you did, and very disappointed if you do not. And if you do not believe this is true, interview. Any CEOs retired, I've interviewed many and asked them a question, what are you proud of? None told me how big their office was. None told me how much money they made. All they talked about is people to help. And the final advice you've also, go for it. You've got

that higher level of aspiration. Go for it. You don't go for it when you're 35. You may not when you're 85. Just go for it. You may not win, but at least you tried. You may not win at least you tried. And finally, what's my goal here? Again, as I said, very simple little go.

I just hope some people listening, something I did said, wrote, helps them have just a little better life. One person has a little better life based on this hour. This hour is a very good use of my time. So thank you for inviting me. Marshall, there are tons of ways that people can get in touch with you. You've written over 50 books, your website, which I'll put in the show notes, but I also saw that you were speaking in a number of places this, which I'll put in the show notes. But I also saw that you were speaking in a number of places this year. I saw one of them was in October. You're going to be the keynote along with Simon Sannick, Wilgadera, Bioshoes, I think I saw Jim Collins. If the

audience would like an opportunity to see you live, what are some places that they can do it? That's called the world business forum. So I'm speaking in New York, I'm speaking in London, I'm speaking in Mexico City, I'm speaking in Australia. So that's called the world business forum. So look, I don't do that many public life programs. On the other hand, I'll give people a shortcut. Better. If you're in Nashville, I'd take a walk.

I take a walk almost every day. I'm home and I always invite everybody to come, stop by the house and we take a walk. I take a walk almost every day. I'm home and I always invite everybody to come stop by the house and we take a walk together. I can take a walk anyway. And so I just love to have people come over and visit and take a walk and I talked to them about life. Send me an email, martibullspin.com. I'm not that hard to reach. Well, next time I'm in Nashville, I'm definitely going to take that walk with you. And sir, thank you so much for being on the show today. It was such an honor to have you.

Thank you so much. I was so honored to have Marshall Goldsmith on the podcast today. I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did. And I wanted to thank Marshall so much for agreeing to join us as well as Penguin Random House. Thank you again, sir, so much for being here today. Links to all things Marshall will be in the show notes at PassionStruct.com. Please use the website links in the show notes if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature

here on the show. All proceeds go to supporting the podcast. Evertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at PassionStruct.com slash deals. Videos are on YouTube at JohnRMiles and PassionStruct Clips. As I mentioned at the beginning, we are also now the AM FM 247 National Broadcast Monday and Friday from 5 to 6 p.m. Links will also be in the show notes. You can find me on LinkedIn where you can subscribe to my LinkedIn newsletter, or you can also find me at John R. Miles on both Instagram and Twitter. If you want to know how I book amazing guests like Marshall Goldsmith, it's because of my network. Go out there and build yours before you need it. You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Stark podcast interview I did with Dr. Scott Lines and we discuss his brand new book Addicted to Drama and how you break the

cycle of drama that is in so many of our lives. There's an old saying that says I think therefore I am and the reality is that's not quite true. The truth is I feel therefore I am. And the reality is, that's not quite true. The truth is, I feel therefore I am. I know my existence by the way I experience life, through sadness, through happiness, through joy, through stress, through everything. We know our existence. And meeting making comes out of feeling and experiencing. I know I have meaning in the world. I know I exist by the fact that I can feel myself in it. And when we're disassociated,

when we're disconnected from ourself or walled off from ourself, we don't have a sense of existence and we don't have a sense of meaning. The fee for the show is that you share it with family and friends when you find something useful or inspirational. If you know someone who could use the advice that Marshall gave today on living or in life, then please share this episode with them. The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share this show with those that you

love and care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. And until next time, live life, passion struck. you