Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Elise Micheals on How to Gain Back the Power of Being a Man EP 156

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. A lot of our behaviors and developments and fears and ideas are just programs running in our minds that we can't see and things that happen to us can be traumatic that we don't know and that we don't understand. So that's why I said I help with subconscious trauma because I help you see what you can't. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello everyone and welcome back to episode 156 of PassionStruck. Recently ranked by Apple is one of the top five most popular alternative health podcasts in the world.

Starting point is 00:01:15 And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn, how to live better, be better, and impact the world. And if you're new to the show, we now have starter packs, both on Spotify and on the Passion Struck website. And these are collections of your favorite episodes that we organized my topic to give any new listener a great way to get acquainted to everything that we do here on the show. Just go to passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. And in case you missed it, earlier this week, I interviewed Dr. Katie Milkman, a professor at the Wharton School

Starting point is 00:01:47 of the University of Pennsylvania and the host of the popular podcast, Toysology. And we discuss how do we change in the behavioral science behind it. Last week, I interviewed Kathy Heller, host of the popular Kathy Heller Show, an author of the book Don't Quit Your Day Job. And I also had on Jesse Gould, a Army ranger who founded the Heroic Arts Project

Starting point is 00:02:08 to help veterans were trying to overcome trauma and PTSD through the use of psychedelic therapy. Please check all those episodes out. And if you love today's episode, please consider giving us a five star review and sharing it with your friends and family members. I know we and our guests love to see your comments and it helps so much with the popularity of this show. Now, let's talk about today's guests. Elise Michaels is a trauma-informed men's mental health coach

Starting point is 00:02:35 who helps men find passion and purpose again by healing subconscious trauma. Originally, a coach for women, she has specifically dedicated her practice after realizing the lack of support in the mental health space and has been doing it ever since. We discuss why it was such a risk for her to create a business coaching men and why this became her passion to focus on. She goes into some of the most common issues that she finds through coaching her clients and also why these issues are only compounding today

Starting point is 00:03:03 in society. We go into how you can connect with your inner self and we both provide our tips to doing so. We discuss her four pillars of men's performance. Elise explains why LinkedIn has become her primary platform for social outreach and how she is amassed a significant following. We end by discussing her favorite books and the best advice that she's ever received. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host

Starting point is 00:03:28 and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let the journey begin. I'm a static to welcome Elise Michaels to the PassionStruck Podcast. But welcome, Elise. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to have you here as well. I thought a great place to start would be you predominantly help men. I would think that that would have been a pretty risky thing to jump into. I wanted to talk about how you fell into

Starting point is 00:04:05 this being your primary focus point. Absolutely. And I love that you brought that up right out of the get co because it's actually a question that I get asked a lot. You're a women coaching men and you have that side where it's like how dare you coach men because you're a woman you wouldn't understand and then I have other sides who are curious like you like how did it even come about. And so just like you found me on LinkedIn, I actually originally started off as a woman's coach or that's what I was intending when I started my business but as I posted content no women were reaching out to me only men and I was very confused. I was

Starting point is 00:04:44 insecure about doing that first off. I didn't think that I could help confused. I was insecure about doing that first off. I didn't think that I could help men. I didn't understand it. But I realized men don't have a lot of support when it comes to mental health. And so I started to just say, okay, I'm going to do this and I wanted to take. Like I started becoming riskier.

Starting point is 00:05:04 I felt with my content and aiming it towards men. And you know, there's all these things about gender and stereotypes and you shouldn't point, pinpoint one or the other because it could always impact both. But I'm full on and making my content towards men now. And I would say it was a little risky at first, but it definitely has paid off since. I was really curious. a little risky at first, but it definitely has paid off since.

Starting point is 00:05:27 I was really curious. I know you help men overcome trauma, but when I was looking at your description, you mentioned subconscious trauma. And for me, person who's been through, unfortunately, a lot of trauma in his own life, I think a lot of it is subconscious, but it comes back in the form of flashbacks and other things that you have. So why did you use subconscious as a caveat?

Starting point is 00:05:52 You can't solve what you can't see. And I think a lot of us are going about our lives, knowing that things that are past have affected us. And it goes beyond the stereotypical psychiatrist impersonation is tell me about your mom and dad. Tell me about your childhood, but really that is where our template is created and you don't understand that as you are born, you don't know anything. And so you soak up the world and its information like a sponge and your brain is so efficient, it doesn't change or question that process. Once it understands how to survive,

Starting point is 00:06:25 it continues on that path. So a lot of our behaviors and developments and fears and ideas are just programs running in our minds that we can't see. And things that happen to us can be traumatic that we don't know and that we don't understand. So that's why I said I help with subconscious trauma because I help you see what you can't. So that makes sense. And do you help people then kind of before or along with

Starting point is 00:06:52 a therapist or do you typically come in with your coaching after they've done something maybe like cognitive behavioral therapy or cognitive processing therapy prolonged exposure, something like that? cognitive process and therapy prolonged exposure, something like that. Typically, my clients have already had a therapist or working with a therapist, and they're not seeing the results that they want. And that's predominantly, I think, why have many male clients? Because how men work is completely different than how women work, right? Men are action oriented. They want to do things. They want to see progress and things. And so

Starting point is 00:07:27 coaching in a trauma-informed way is how I've been able to really be successful with my business because I'm trauma therapy trained. So I'm not just like making all of this stuff up as I go. Like I'm trained in that area, but I also understand how men work. So I can say, hey, this is what's going on. This is what you've gone through. But we don say, hey, this is what's going on. This is what you've gone through. But we don't have to just, I'm not going to make you figure it out by yourself. And that's kind of what therapy is. It's very non-directive. But if you're someone who wants a more directive approach, that's where I come in. Part of the calling that I had that got me to start this whole passion-struck movement

Starting point is 00:08:03 was I kept seeing this vision that I was called to help the underdogs and it's kind of like people who are the underdog in their own life. And what I mean by that and people don't like to hear these words. So I use different ones usually, but it's people who are battered, bored, broken, beaten, feel helpless, feel apathetic.

Starting point is 00:08:24 And generally, I think more people than would like to admit it are facing these things. And it's part of the reason we have so many people in society right now, both men and women disengaged. But I think, especially in men, it's difficult for us to talk about many of these things. Is that something that you find true? And if so, how do you help the men open many of these things. Is that something that you find true? And if so, how do you help the men open up about these things, which can be difficult to do? Absolutely, I agree.

Starting point is 00:08:52 A hundred percent with what you're saying. Women are strongly encouraged to talk with their friends. Being emotional is okay for us. It's okay for us to talk about things for men. It is shamed. What are you talking about? All things that even children will say to each other, right? And so from a very early age, men are taught not to feel

Starting point is 00:09:12 which creates disconnection with themselves, disconnection from their desires, from their true passion, and their train to go into a career that makes a lot of money, but they might not like to just do what they have to do. And they become somebody that they don't like, and that's why they have these midlife crises. So how I am able to have them open up to me

Starting point is 00:09:31 is because I'm pointing it out. I'm saying, listen, this is what's happening. Do you resonate with it? The men who resist that are the men who are hiding behind the fruits of their labor, not enjoying them, right? And I coach the men who want to enjoy the fruits of their labor and no longer hide behind it. If you're ready for that, you're going to see, okay, something is not right here. Yeah, and so what are some of the most common symptoms or common areas that people need help in? A lot of the men that I work with are usually high executives or business owners. So what happens is they do everything themselves and they're burned out.

Starting point is 00:10:14 They're always taking care of others and not themselves. They're never a priority. They have trouble in their personal relationships. When it comes to connecting and truly being intimate, it's kind of like they just get stuck at a certain point, right? They don't ever have a really great time. It's like, okay, I'm winning what's next? What's next? What's next? The focus is always usually on achieving something because it's all external validation as opposed to validation, the burnout, the feeling of not really ever being good enough. I can relate to this for a big portion of my career

Starting point is 00:10:51 once I got out of the military. I was a very senior executive in Fortune 50 companies and you kind of get stuck into this pattern where all of a sudden you're living this lifestyle that's kind of created by your job, but a lot of times especially the more senior you get, the more stress you're put under, the more you have to perform, the more distance you become with your family and friends because you kind of get consumed. The company is own you, you're working more hours.

Starting point is 00:11:25 And I guess one of the biggest things that I learned throughout it is I was the CIO of a Fortune 50 company, probably one of the most top three coveted CIO jobs you could have. But I was in that job absolutely miserable. I was working 100 hour weeks, I was traveling overseas, two weeks out of the month. I was reaching a point where my kids Started to not even know me anymore because I wasn't there and even when I was there I was working three different time zones four different time zones at times You start losing Touch and the biggest thing I found was that I was working

Starting point is 00:12:04 To make other people's dreams come true, but I wasn't working to make my own. Is this something that you find is pretty common out there? Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure so many people listening to this right now are going to be like, that's exactly how I felt or how I feel and so many of my clients are at that burnout stage, really like I just can just can't do this anymore, because you forget that you don't live to work, you work to live, right? But suddenly, work becomes your life, and you forget your kids, and you forget your spouse, and you forget yourself, and you become very unhappy. We can find happiness within a nine to five.

Starting point is 00:12:39 We can find happiness building other people's dreams, because we can build our dreams within their dreams, but we have to remember that we have dreams. We have to remember to prioritize ourselves. We have to put boundaries in place. That's not something that's ever encouraged in high-level corporate jobs. It's like you work for the company now, so forget about yourself. That's something I think a lot of men fall into is they're actually never taught that their own self-care matters.

Starting point is 00:13:12 I recently interviewed a lady by the name of Claude Silver. She's awesome. She's Gary Vee's right-hand person. And she carries the title Chief Heart Officer. In fact, I think she is the first chief heart officer that has ever existed. And their approach to working with their people is quite different because she believes that she needs

Starting point is 00:13:34 to work with each individual to understand their aspirations both inside and outside of work and to help them fulfill doing both. Which I think is a pretty unique approach to this. What do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. I think every company is going to be different. Google gives time to their employees to work on their own projects. At some point, I think you realize when you run a company that there are people working for you and there are people in times of change, it's not just people for the company, people for themselves working for your company now, and you

Starting point is 00:14:11 have to kind of support them along with supporting yourself. And the more the less they feel trapped by that, the more dedicated they're going to be to helping you. I definitely agree with that. I think so often times we become so consumed with what we're doing. We don't even take the time to look inward. And when you do that, it just creates problem after problem in your life. And I think one of the biggest pieces of advice that I was given was I once was working with a coach and I do periodically and he said, you know, John, your life is like you're living on one big stool that has a giant support underneath it. I would encourage you to think of that stool

Starting point is 00:14:59 as having four or five different supports because you're kind of like over emphasizing your career against things like your spiritual help, your mental health, your physical health, your relationship health. And for me, it was like a light bulb went off because regardless what you want those different pillars to be underneath you, if you're living with one

Starting point is 00:15:22 that has too much emphasis, if that starts to crumble, the others aren't gonna hold you up, you're just gonna fall over, which is why, I think to your point, so many people, both men and women, are having these midlife crises, because I think a lot of people

Starting point is 00:15:39 emphasize their careers over other aspects, and when that career starts becoming dissatisfied for them or they realize it's not their calling, other elements can pressure down. Is that something that you've seen as well? Well, absolutely. And it's so funny that you said because they call the four pillars of mental health,

Starting point is 00:16:00 I assimilate it to a house. So it's like a house has four pillars to hold it up. And if one pillar is the only one, your house falls down, right? It struggles. And so it's just really funny that you said that because maybe all of us know that there are pillars in our lives that we have to maintain. And what I've seen a lot with men before the stage of career is when they know they need to change, they will run to physical health, right? Every man when he starts his journey is always like, I got to go to the gym. It's usually just tends to be the thing. Obviously, it's a good thing to go to the gym and to take care of ourselves health-wise. But we don't want to feed into all of the stereotypes that we've been

Starting point is 00:16:42 brought up to believe are important. And I really try to get around that and go to the root of why we're feeling the way we feel. Why do we feel like this is the next step? Why do we feel like we need to do this or we have to do this? Because sometimes we believe that things are important because we've been told they are not because we actually care about them. And that's why we have these recurring goals every single year. I want to lose 10 pounds. I want to start this and then we've been trying to lose weight for like 10 years. And guess what? We never actually cared about losing weights. And that's why we never lose it because we will always do things that are priorities

Starting point is 00:17:14 for us. So sometimes it's like re-analysing your beliefs. And why do I actually want this thing? Do I actually care about this? And I find for men also raising the bar for yourself. Because a lot of times we set goals that are so mediocre that even if we got them, we'd be disappointed. There's no desire to climb that mountain. So we need to make the mountain bigger, more desirable so that it actually

Starting point is 00:17:37 changes us. It causes us to to chase something that that's worthy for us. I completely agree with that. And I also like that you're using the four pillars, kind of crazy, kind of the two, came together like that. I know, it's just one of those things. I see that you practice our EBT therapy. And I was wondering if you could explain what that is

Starting point is 00:18:00 and how you apply it. Well, I am certified in a lot of healing modalities. Like you mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm trained in trauma therapy, relationship science, R-E-B-T, neuro linguistics programming. And so I can't say that I just enter this session and say, okay, we're going to use R-E-B-T today. For me, it's kind of like, I threw it all in a big suit pot and you get a ladle of everything. But the emotive behavioral therapy is kind of like looking at emotions and seeing how those affect an impact and going into beliefs and taking a deep dive in how we can essentially reframe our thoughts and opinions about things based upon how we're feeling.

Starting point is 00:18:49 It's been a while since I've been certified in that, so I don't want to dive too deep because honestly everything is kind of a mixture at this point. I don't want to misinform anyone, but that was one of the courses that actually changed my life and how I started to realize everything is processed in the brain. And it doesn't have to be a guessing game when it comes to healing. Like this is why I became a coach because once I figured out how to work the brain and it doesn't have to be a guessing game when it comes to healing. Like this is why I became a coach because once I figured out how to work the brain, I was like, holy crap, there is a process. There's a step-by-step pathway that you can take. It doesn't have to be a cycle of pain forever

Starting point is 00:19:16 because I don't know if you've ever gotten in this, you said you've done coaching before but where you get really hyped up and you're like, I'm gonna go and then you're on progress for a while and then you go into a down pit. And then you're like, I'm going to get hyped up. And I'm going to go in the cycle and cycle. And I found myself in this. And I was like, why can't I break out of this? I've been in therapy for a year and a half. I don't understand. And that's when I dove into those courses. And that's what was the breaking point for me as I realized it, it is all in the

Starting point is 00:19:41 brain. And when you work with neuroplasticity and emotions and physiology and you really can rewire your brain to not have these crazy cycles anymore, you just have to understand what's going on. We'll be right back to my interview with Elise Michaels. If you're like me and you're a busy business owner, the last thing you want to be spending your time on is administrative tasks like handling payroll, employee benefits, time off requests, and everything else that comes along with managing a team. That is why I let Gusto take these off my plate. Gusto offers an all-in-one payroll and HR for

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Starting point is 00:20:56 That's goosto.com slash passion struck. Comes a time when you need to consolidate, whether you're out of hard drive space or you're significant other, ask if you really need to buy that many pair of shoes. And I found myself needing to consolidate how I approach social media when I stumbled upon AppSumo as I was looking for an application to help me get rid of my daily stress of social media management. This is where I found

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Starting point is 00:22:01 first 100 people who clicked the link in the show notes. The first 100 people to click social dot app sumo dot com slash passion will get 10% off their first purchase with app sumo. Please consider those who support the show and make it free for our listeners. And I know all these links and discount codes can be difficult to remember. So we put them all in one place at passionstruck dot com slash deals now back to my interview with Elise Michaels. A lot of what I talk about here on the podcast, my solo episodes are all about behavioral intervention and how to use brain plasticity to kind of change your habits, your actions, the way that you're going about things so that you can become the person that you aspire to be. So kind of along the same lines. So what was the breaking point for you? Because you said you were trapped in this lifestyle. You didn't say trapped, but you said I was in this

Starting point is 00:22:55 job that I hated. So what was the breaking point for you to switch into the lifestyle you're living now? so you're living now. Unfortunately, I was a victim of a physical assault walked into an armed robber in my house who was pointing to you done at me, kind of coming out of that experience and basically a lot of these emotions that I had been keeping within me after a few months just came pouring out

Starting point is 00:23:24 and combat trauma came back, previous physical assault trauma, suicide trauma from some close friends dying. It was like everything started pouring out. I think the reason that CBT and many of these modalities are only 30 to 35% effective, in many cases is because the person who's going through it doesn't really open up truthfully about what is happening. And so for me, it was one of the periods where I just said, I'm going to be completely authentic about what's going on, how I'm feeling.

Starting point is 00:24:00 It doesn't matter what the person I'm working with. Thanks about it. I've got to get this stuff out. And I found that when I was doing that, I had this huge release. And I think it really allowed me to start spending a huge amount of time practicing mindfulness, kind of dissecting my life.

Starting point is 00:24:17 And in that moment, I was kind of like, if I would die now, have I accomplished what I was meant to accomplish. And it just brought all the way back to that job that I had at that Fortune 50. I kept feeling this calling that I was supposed to be doing something else. Surprisingly, the numbers are extremely high

Starting point is 00:24:36 of people who have this feeling of being called. In fact, it can be high, as high as 84% of all people to some self-transcendent pursuit that they're supposed to do. That quote comes from a person I recently interviewed, Dr. David Yaden, who's at Johns Hopkins, probably one of the foremost experts in the world on self-transcendent behaviors and wrote the book on this topic. Unless you really are willing to look at that and forego the societal things that are gonna come with it, how you're judged by your title, the car you drive,

Starting point is 00:25:14 the how she live in, what I realized is that none of that mattered. And none of it was making me happy. It didn't matter how many cars I owned, how many boats I had, until you really admit to what is going to bring you success and how you define success and happiness for yourself, you're always going to be measuring yourself to someone else's view. And that's why so many people today are stuck, I think, in the vortex. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:25:43 Wow. I'm so glad that you brought, thank you, first of all, for opening up and sharing that. Obviously, very powerful instance that not many of us have gone through. But it really brought up like two points for me is you said, like CVT and things like that are only 30% effective, which is kind of funny

Starting point is 00:26:04 because a lot of people tote, oh, you have to do this healing modality. Just like they'll tote, you have to do this diet. Like this is the only one that works. This is for you. It's really untrue. It's a combination of all of them. But what transformed my coaching was trauma therapy, training and understanding that the foundation of her healing is always feeling safe. If you don't feel safe with me, you are not going to open up to me. And you had made a conscious decision that whoever you're with, I'm going to open up because that's how I'm going to heal. But most people don't make that decision consciously. They make it subconsciously. How does this person make me feel? Am I okay here? Am I okay

Starting point is 00:26:41 to express? And so for me as a coach, I know that that's what needs to happen. First of all, and so it could be, I could be using any modality, but that needs to be put in place. So that, like you said, they can be honest. And then the second part about that that I really, really loved from what you said was, it took this instance for me to wake up. And sometimes the lessons that we're asking God or the universe, we want X thing in our lives. We just want to be better. We want this answer. We want more money. We want to feel grateful.

Starting point is 00:27:12 Sometimes the lessons that we get for those things are not things that we like. The things that cause us pain. They're things that suck. They're things that cause us to look at ourselves and the things that we don't like about ourselves because We need to learn the things. It's like that quote if you ask for patience God doesn't just give you patience He gives you things to practice patience, right? so I love how you saw those hard lessons in your life and

Starting point is 00:27:41 Like that's what you really needed to wake you up, even though it was painful and it sucked and it wasn't what you wanted, you wouldn't have followed the calling, had those things not woken you up. And that's what the pandemic did for a lot of people. I mean, a lot of people really didn't like it and they complain about it, but so many people didn't like their job that they got fired from. So many people woke up to the fact that life is short and we don't know what could happen tomorrow. So we need to start following the calling that we have. For sure. I think it has introduced a completely different dimension and for many people will

Starting point is 00:28:17 never be the same. Now that people have recognized the ability to work remote for people to start jumping into many different projects. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that all of that are good points. I would just tell a listener that you don't have to have one of these life defining. Yeah. Well, that was the thing too. I was going to add. I'm glad that you brought that up. Unfortunately, that's usually the point we get to before we say, okay, I need help, but that's also why I put out the LinkedIn content and the TikTok content to get people to wake up before they get slapped on the face. You know, like Will Smith, smack and Chris Rock, you don't need that to happen to you in

Starting point is 00:28:55 order to say, Hey, there might be something here I can grow from just in my life, right? And the thing is, before any of that happened, you had this gut feeling that you weren't meant to be here. You had a knowledge, you had a knowing, you were getting signs that I should probably leave this thing. And so anybody listening, you don't have to wait until the moment that everything kind of collides, start listening to that voice,

Starting point is 00:29:20 start listening to that intuition and just see what it's trying to tell you. And you will avoid so many painful moments in life. I just wanted to put something else out there is that if people are going through trauma, there are many new modalities now that are being looked at. And a couple episodes prior two years, I've covered experts in the use of psychedelics to help people overcome trauma. What was really interesting to me is that a lot of these people were completely against it

Starting point is 00:29:51 because of kind of the societal views that people have on using psychedelics. But the interesting thing is that their efficacy is 66% to 70% effective, whether that's MDMA, ketamine, acetylocybin, or ayahuasca. is 66% to 70% effective, whether that's MDMA, ketamine, acilosibin or ayahuasca. So it's kind of interesting now how all these things are going through phase three, phase two trials and how in the future, you're therapist,

Starting point is 00:30:19 in addition to being able to prescribe you medication is going to be able to prescribe therapy such as this as well, which to me is kind of mind blowing because I would have never even thought it possible 10, 15 years ago. It's so funny that you brought this up. I haven't told anybody about this yet. I was totally a straight edge for like 25 years in my life. I'm like no drinking, no drugs. And so I'm on that same boat where I was like, people who like drugs just like drugs. They say it heals everything. People who like weed, like weed is everything. People who like mushrooms are like mushrooms are everything. So I was totally in that boat, but my coach talked to me about microdosing. And I was like, ah, that's crazy. But then I had all these fears. I actually have started

Starting point is 00:31:00 microdosing just ended my six week. And I really can say that it really does change your life. When you understand exactly the purpose behind it, I haven't had a trip or anything like that because a microdose is something very small like a vitamin you take in the morning. But it's just really funny because you said so many people are against it. Now it was one of those people and now I've done it.

Starting point is 00:31:20 And it actually has been a super eye awakening experience. So I can totally see how it plays out now that I've done it. I recently did the four by four by 48 challenge with about 40 other veterans. I'm not sure if I'm familiar with what that is, but what is that? You're on four miles every four hours for 48 hours. Oh gosh, okay, yeah, I do know what that is.

Starting point is 00:31:42 Wow, that's intense. But I did in support of three veteran non-profit charities, the Warrior Angels Foundation Vets and GrowX Hearts Project and Vets and the Heroic Hearts Project are both organizations that are helping veterans overcome trauma through the use of psychedelics. And so it was a really interesting experience. For me to be able to talk to 20 or 30 special forces, folks who, many of them at one point were suicidal to going through the self-transcendent experience. And again, these are very clinically driven practices

Starting point is 00:32:19 that they're doing, whether they're going down to Costa Rica, or they're doing it using MDMA. But to just hear how much it had positively influenced these veterans was really eye-opening to me. So, and many of them coming out of it do microdose because I think there is, I don't want to quote specifics because I'm not an expert, but most of the things I have read said that generally once you go through one of these treatments alone, the effects can last for about a year.

Starting point is 00:32:47 Sometimes it's longer than that, but many of them have and do microdose on a daily basis. Right. Well, in my experience is different too because I wasn't taking it to overcome trauma. I was using it to build like, because the thing about, so mine has psilocybin in it. And I guess mushrooms are like the oldest organisms ever and they have neural networks underneath the ground that connect to all living organisms. So the idea is you take the mushroom

Starting point is 00:33:14 and you're absorbing all of that information. And this might sound like all hokey-pokey for anybody who's listening. Because it definitely did to me. I was like, wow, this is just literally insane. But I think the important thing that you mentioned is do it with an intention and with people who can guide you and help you work through things. Because I don't think it's just, hey, I take a mushroom and I have a trip and I'm healed because that kind of goes along with

Starting point is 00:33:42 the idea that I can heal everything by myself. And what it actually helps you do is just, you're going through a scary experience, so you are able to connect with someone else and release and process. And that's really what the foundation of healing is. I didn't do this to heal trauma. And I think that the whole foundation of it, it's not just about the mushrooms or whatever, the MDMA itself, it's about

Starting point is 00:34:05 the fact that it enables you to connect with people and actually do the healing that you need to do. And that process is permanent. I don't think you actually ever need to keep micradosing. If you don't want to, it's not something you're dependent on because once you open up those gateways for healing, you know, that's something that you have with you forever. That's something that I'm going to continue to bring guest on the podcast to explore given that some of this science is going to be approved here in the next couple of years for widespread use. So, I think we'll start educating people. I remember hearing this on like a Tim Ferris podcast like five years ago, I was like that, that guy's crazy. Like he brought a doctor on who did it and took people to

Starting point is 00:34:45 Iowaska retreats. And I was like, that guy's crazy. I would never do that. So ridiculous. Drugs shouldn't be used in trauma. And you have to be careful that just to put a disclaimer out, we're not doctors, we're not recommending anything. And if you have experienced trauma, I highly suggest getting a therapist or

Starting point is 00:35:02 a doctor first before doing any of this other stuff. You think about, thank you for that caveat, but you think about some of these societies where they have been using these forms of self-medication for a long time. I mean, when you talk about ayahuasca or magic mushrooms, they're both naturally growing things,

Starting point is 00:35:22 just kind of like peody is. And the Native Americans have been using that for centuries, as have many of the people from Central and South America. There is evidence to these modalities working. It just hasn't been that accepted into Western medicine and Western culture until of late. But I do think, Dr. Yaden, like I said, works for Johns Hopkins, they're the predominant research organization right now in psychedelics. And we're the ones who got the first grants from the federal government to actually study it.

Starting point is 00:35:58 So they've now been doing this for 15 to 17 years and are looking at all aspects of it. Harvard Medical School is now looking at it as well as many others. The VA would be becoming some much more seriously exam and stuff. I'm going to jump off of this. So I wanted to understand for you why thinking of social platforms, you decided to make LinkedIn be one of the predominant ones that you use to kind of market yourself and showcase your videos. Like, why did I choose LinkedIn? Yeah, instead of something like Instagram, I know you're on TikTok as well, but why was

Starting point is 00:36:37 LinkedIn the vehicle of choice for you? Because at the time, there was no one making videos and it was really one of those universal things where I just got lucky one day and right in the beginning of the pandemic, one of my videos blew up and it gave me a confidence boost that said, okay, I can take this somewhere. So it wasn't very intentional until after I saw a little bit of the reward.

Starting point is 00:37:06 But I also understood that the people I'm speaking to are most likely not on TikTok at the moment or not on Instagram at the moment. If I'm targeting men in business, that's where they're going to be is LinkedIn. You know, they're they're only on LinkedIn because they're trying to and not only on LinkedIn, I've gotten a lot of clients now from TikTok and some from Instagram, but that was a more serious platform where I was bringing up things

Starting point is 00:37:31 that nobody really talked about. I saw one of your most recent posts. You were getting some people who were maybe not happy to see the success that you've had. I guess one of the questions I wanted to ask coming out of that because if someone hasn't seen your videos, you are pretty much to the point on what you're talking about. And what I like about it is some of them, you could be walking down the street, talking to someone, others are feel more like a production in your office, but I find them very authentic and you don't hold back, which is what I think people gravitate to.

Starting point is 00:38:05 So coming out of that and you got a number of responses to that post that you put out, why is it that those who are broken are the last to acknowledge their brokenness? Well, I can't speak for everybody on that, but I think because when we acknowledge that we have something That's broken or something to work on then we have work to do right and When we have work to do we have a certain responsibility and it's hard and it's painful and nobody ever wants to admit that they're the ones doing something wrong But in any scenario you could flip a perspective and all of a sudden you're wrong Right nobody wants to look at that side. They only want to look at the side of the argument where they're winning wrong. But in any scenario, you could flip a perspective and all of a sudden you're wrong. Right? Nobody wants to look at that side. They only want to look at the side of the argument where they're winning. And if you can blame somebody else for something, then you don't have to take any

Starting point is 00:38:54 responsibility, right? So in that video, what I was comparing to is I have a very small, small following. I've got 45k on LinkedIn and I've just hit 54K on TikTok. I've got a small following, but I already found people attacking me and trying to say, I don't deserve to coach men and I'm a terrible person and I'm the devil. They've come after my partner at different times and I realized, oh my gosh, like the more you are seen,

Starting point is 00:39:21 you know, the more love you're gonna get, but also the more hate, right? Because you reflect upon people, the things about themselves they don't like. And so they want you to be quiet as opposed to facing themselves, right? Nobody wants to look at the part of themselves they need to change. But it's up to us to stay in our vision and to stand in our power and to say, look, that's not about me. We need to wake people up sometimes and that's why it's okay to be controversial. And that's why it's okay to be a woman men's coach because some people need to be woken up.

Starting point is 00:39:57 Yeah, it's interesting. I can tell you since I've kind of gone down this journey of trying to personally brand myself and put myself out to the world. There are a ton of really positive messages that I get on a regular basis, but there have been some just straight out pretty crazy attacks on me as well. Mostly it's not done in a DM or by someone reaching out to you individually. Typically it's in a rant that's on one of your social media Platforms when this has happened to me three times in the last week yesterday This was kind of interesting because I did an Instagram post. I had a previous guest on the podcast in Janelle McColley And she was talking about how throughout much of her career in the military

Starting point is 00:40:42 She felt that she was a perfectionist. Her quote was basically, I forgot that sometimes you need to slow down and enjoy the joy in life. I kind of just did some commentary on it that here are signs that you may be a perfectionist in your own life, and here's what you can do about it. And I got just this scathing remark, but then interestingly enough, I didn't react to it. And today she changed it herself. And she said, I'm sorry for writing what I did before. What you put out there is 100% true.

Starting point is 00:41:18 And it was just difficult for me to see those things in myself and acknowledge them. I think what you're saying is a lot of things is that you're hitting a chord with someone in some way. And we may think we're helping someone, but different people get helped in different ways. And the timing is extremely important. Most importantly, they have to be receptive to the help. And-

Starting point is 00:41:38 Absolutely. Yeah, so I find you in many ways kind of a disruptor in your approach. I hope so. I've tried to be, you know, like I at first I tried to avoid controversy. I was scared and I'm just like, I want to be as controversial as possible because that's the only way people start to look at you, right? So thank you for that.

Starting point is 00:42:00 My other side of it was do you always think being disruptive is a good thing? Oh, yes. Oh, I answered your question, didn't I? I think so because I don't think you should be disruptive just to be disruptive. I think there's a lot of that going on right now with a lot of labels and politics. I think people are just trying to bring stuff up

Starting point is 00:42:20 because they want to stir a pot that doesn't need to be stirred. But I think if you really have a mission, you can't be afraid to touch the ugly parts, right? You can't be afraid to touch what nobody else wants to touch because that's the only way something is ever seen in a dress. And a lot of people aren't going to like you for that because they're comfortable in the container that they're in. But you can't worry about that when you're on your mission. You have to speak to the people who need to hear what you have to say and not worry about the rest. Not having President Biden, but it's interesting to me that four out of the five

Starting point is 00:42:55 presidents before him made a point to call out that empathy was one of the biggest things that they saw missing in society and that there was a huge need for more people to be empathetic. And I just did an episode on this last week. Do you find when you're coaching men that because some of them are don't like to show their emotions and other things that they realize that they have issues with expressing empathy? That might be the case for very few, but I think men are some of the, I think internally men are some of the most feeling and empathetic people.

Starting point is 00:43:34 They just don't know how to express it because they're afraid they're gonna be judged. They're afraid they're gonna be shamed. Emotions don't just choose a gender. When you come to the room like, women get empathy, empathy men don't like we're trained what to feel and so you have this ability inside of you. It's just how do I show it so it's not that they yeah so I would say they might struggle with it. But once they acknowledge that it's okay not at all right they're not I think there's a lot of these words that are thrown around now like, oh, he's so narcissistic or she's so narcissistic

Starting point is 00:44:08 or they're just a jerk. We just find ways to blame people instead of understanding. And once we understand people melt, right? They melt into who they are. They feel safe enough to be who they are. And all these problems start going away. I think the last, like you said, years with all the presidents they're emphasizing,

Starting point is 00:44:23 oh, people need to be more empathetic. People need more empathetic. People need more empathetic. People are already empathetic. We need to stop trying to force people to be something they're not, or accept things in ways that they don't perceive. We're trying to create this utopian society and all we're creating is more division.

Starting point is 00:44:40 I think we're extremely divisive right now. It's all around us, not only here, but worldwide, obviously. It's because we're trying to say, hey, you have to believe what I believe. And your opinion is wrong. Instead of, oh, okay, you have a different opinion than me, that's okay. Right? It's always like, we have to accept everybody. We have to include everybody.

Starting point is 00:44:59 We have to be equal in everything. But when you say that, you make the other person feel like they can't say their piece because it will be seen as not inclusive or not, you know, and this is going far beyond like racism and things like that. It's like, we can't have everybody think the same thing and feel the same way and do the same things. It's just not how it can't work that way. So now we're just battling each

Starting point is 00:45:25 other instead of turning towards each other. Yes, it's a never ending cycle of negativity at times that we need to find a way to break through of for sure. Well, I did want to ask you, is there a bit of advice that you've been given along your life path that has meant more to you or caused a greater impact than anything else? I have been given so many pieces of life advice that I don't know if I could think of the very best one in this moment but I can think of a really good one. Someone told me one time, you can look at the world in two ways.

Starting point is 00:46:08 Nothing matters or everything matters. And when I think about that and I think about how we perceive the world, sometimes we can feel like the world is against us or the world is for us. And whether it's true or not, what serves you, what actually serves you, it's better for me to think that everything is happening for me, for my growth, for my good, for my expansion.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Then it is for me to think that the universe hates me and everything bad happens to me and I'm a victim. I would rather just think that, Hey, even though this bad thing is happening to me, it's happening for me. And I think that the way that you look at life in that way can really change your whole life because I've developed a quote every day of your life is the best day of your life. And it helps keep you present

Starting point is 00:46:51 and it helps you remember that all we have is today. And that's one of the lessons I would say has been the most impactful. Yes, well, I think there's a ton of truth to that. And I think it's something that people woke up to even more during the pandemic, especially for me, you know, having a younger sister who out of nowhere comes down with pancreatic cancer. You just don't know when you might get that call, which is something if anyone's read the

Starting point is 00:47:18 Happiness Project by Gretchen Riven. She talks about a lot in her book, especially during that month of August, I think it was where she was looking at things like that. So I also keep a book list for the podcast, so I'd like to ask some guests if there are books that have meant a lot to them or influenced their life that I can put on that list. Are there any that you have that are meaningful to you? Absolutely. There are so many, but I'll just give a few for the very first book that I ever read is the four agreements, not the very first book I ever read in my life, but the very first book I read in like a spiritual way was the four agreements. It's very short, very simple to understand. Have you ever read that one?

Starting point is 00:48:02 I have not. Oh my gosh. It's a classic. You have to read it. That one, think and grow rich. Have you read that one? I have not. Oh my gosh, it's a classic. You have to read it. That one, think and grow rich. Have you read that one? I have read that. It's a great book, right? All in mindset. What else?

Starting point is 00:48:15 Richest man in Babylon. Also a super short book on finances. That's a great one. And then I think most recently, if you're dealing with trauma, what happened to you is a good thing. It was co-authored by Oprah Winfrey and it really explains trauma and its effects on the body and its effects on the mind and how to connect with inner child. So I think anybody who's dealing

Starting point is 00:48:36 with trauma would really benefit from listening to that book and just a few books for men. I would say no more Mr. Nysky, amazing book by a psychologist who explains that when we do everything for everyone else and we forget to prioritize ourselves, it has really negative effects on our lives. And it's all geared towards men. He does men's groups and things like that.

Starting point is 00:49:00 That's an amazing book. Book and the way of the superior man talks about feminine and masculine energy. Okay, well great suggestions. And I will definitely have to look into all of those that I haven't. I have a list. I can't say do the whole list. Typically I'm reading two to three books at any one time, some for pleasure,

Starting point is 00:49:20 but mostly topics that interest me. Well, at least I wanted to give you an opportunity to let you tell the audience how they can reach out to you. And then I'm gonna end by going through a rapid round of questions with you. Awesome, well, as John said, I can be contacted through any of the social media platforms, TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram. For coaching, you can go to my website, www.alicemicals.com.

Starting point is 00:49:49 Michael's spelled M-I-C-H-E-A-L-S. It's kind of backwards. I do one-on-one group coaching and soon to be retreats for higher level spiritual coaching. That's coming out. And then there will be a pass, of course, as well. So just sending this out into the universe for anybody who's listening to this, all that will be available. And I'm ready for this rapid fire. We all typically have habits. Is there one in particular

Starting point is 00:50:17 that you use on a regular basis that you feel has helped you become successful? that you feel has helped you become successful. I think for me going to the gym and putting myself in a healthy state, moving your body will always help you become successful. I think we all have people out there that we admire whether it could be an athlete, it could be a CEO, it could be a coach, you could be a scientist, you have it.

Starting point is 00:50:42 Is there someone for you that is predominant that you look up to? Grant Cardone predominantly. He has been my mentor for like the last four years, not like one-on-one, but I've gone to all his conferences. I do do all the things. Grant Cardone and then maybe the rock. The rock Duane Johnson. Grant Cardone and then maybe the rock the rock Duane Johnson Yeah, the rock is great. They're both they both are great Not like the rock. I mean he could probably create world peace I think he would just say hey guys get along now and we will well I would hate to be the person who opens up the Super Bowl after having to follow in his footsteps.

Starting point is 00:51:27 What is your most played song on your phone? I don't know. I would absolutely is probably something inappropriate. Let's go with, oh God. I would have to look that up. Is that okay? You just want me to make something up. Oh, let's go with Payboss. Let's just vanish song. What chore do you absolutely hate doing?

Starting point is 00:52:00 Emptying the dishwasher. Might have my partner do that. We trade off. Oh, no. Oh, one really gross thing. Everybody will resonate with this. Emptying the hair out of a drain. The shower drain cannot cannot do it. Mm-hmm. That this is the first time I've ever gotten the same answer and back-to-back interviews. What do you mean to say, Mansor? The last person said these exact same things?

Starting point is 00:52:34 About the hair and the drain, yes, that is pretty darn disgusting. I didn't think anybody would have said that. That's such a random thing, but it is nasty. I'm sorry, maybe that should be like a job. If somebody can figure out how to just suck it up and not have to do with the grossness, you'll probably be like a job. If somebody can figure out how to just suck it up and not have to do with the grossness, you'll probably be like a bajillionaire. Well, if someone's going to be a professional dog poop picker upper, I would put this in that kind of same realm of dirty jobs you don't want to have.

Starting point is 00:52:56 So you said you like to exercise. What is your favorite form of exercise? I like weightlifting. Gotta do them squats. Gotta grow that booty. You know, Joe, you'm right there with you. Got to grow that booty. You know, Joe, you're right there with me. Right there with you in the GM six days a week. Yeah, I got leg day tomorrow coming up.

Starting point is 00:53:15 There you go. And then the last question I have and it's a fan favorite is I have had the opportunity to interview a lot of astronauts in the show. And so if you were an astronaut right now, and you were one of the first group who got to land on Mars, and the powers it be told you that you could enact a law and edict, a philosophy for the rest of humanity, what would it be? That's a hard question. I wish you would have given me this before the show started. I need to think about this so I sound smart. I think I just think it's important for everybody to

Starting point is 00:54:02 live life in their fullest expression no matter what that is. I don't know how that would become a law. Maybe I would probably just be like God and be like you get free will. Do what you want, right? I'll take a godly approach to that. At least it was so nice having you on the podcast today and I think it's great what you're doing to help men and women out there overcome their trauma and basically become a better version of themselves, which is exactly what we're all about here. Thank you so much, Sean. I really appreciate it and I really have a passion for this, so I appreciate you inviting me on. A big thank you to Elise Michaels. Links to all things Elise

Starting point is 00:54:40 will be in the show notes on passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you buy any books from the guests that are on the show. It helps to support the show and make it free for all our listeners. Videos are on YouTube at our channel at JohnRMiles. Please go there and subscribe. Advertisers, deals, and discount codes are at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please support those who support the show. I am JohnRMiles at both Twitter and Instagram, and you can also find me on LinkedIn.

Starting point is 00:55:08 And if you wanna know how I book all these amazing guests, it is because of my network. Please build those relationships before you need them. Most of the guests on the show actually subscribe to and provide their advice for both guests and topics that we cover on the show. You are about to hear a preview of the PassionStruck podcast interview with Vice Admiral Sandy Stowez,

Starting point is 00:55:27 who spent 30 years in the Coast Guard ultimately becoming the superintendent of her alma mater Coast Guard Academy. And we discuss her book, Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass. I came to believe while I was a cadet that yeah, there were challenges being a woman, one of the first women at the Coast Guard Academy, but if I pulled myself back and looked at it objectively, a lot of people had a hard time

Starting point is 00:55:51 depending on circumstances, and you could choose to let what those people said to you get to you, or you could choose to prove them wrong. Maybe it's the German in me, but I choose to prove them wrong and to show that I could make it there. And all it did when somebody would tell me, hey, you're a woman, it's going to be harder for you here. I would just say, hey, to myself, that's just another incentive for me to try harder and to persevere. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends. When you find something interesting or useful, if you know someone who is dealing with mental health issues, definitely share this episode with them.

Starting point is 00:56:32 The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share the show with those that you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply the lessons that you hear on the show, so you can live what you listen. And we'll see you next time. Remember, live life passion struck.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Elise Micheals on How to Gain Back the Power of Being a Man EP 156

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