Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Erin Diehl on Why Every Day of Our Lives Is an Improv Scene EP 153

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. I find a lot of people find intimidating is the word because it automatically makes you think, oh my gosh, I have to think quickly on the spot. I have no idea what I'm talking about right now. I'm just talking, right? But this is improv. And this is every single day of our lives is an improv scene. We get to choose an adventure after an adventure and The beautiful thing about you is that you don't even recognize that power is that you are an improviser. You're doing it Welcome to PassionStruct. Hi, I'm your host John Armiles and on the show We decipher the secrets tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best

Starting point is 00:00:52 version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 153 of PassionStruck. Recently ranked as one of the top 50 most inspirational podcasts in the world, and thank you to each and every one of you who comes most inspirational podcasts in the world. And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn, had a live better, be better, and impact the

Starting point is 00:01:31 world. In case you missed my episode from earlier in the week, it featured Dr. David Yaden, who is a researcher at the Johns Hopkins University Medical School. And he works in their center for psychedelic and consciousness research. And our discussion is all about self-transcendence through BatLens. My interviews last week in case you missed them featured Cathy Heller, host of the extremely popular Cathy Heller show, and we discussed the importance of knowing yourself and living with intentionality. I also head on former Army Ranger Jesse Gold where we talk about his Broa-Carts project, which is helping veterans overcome trauma through the use of psychedelic therapy. If you love any of these episodes, we would so appreciate it if you would forward them

Starting point is 00:02:17 to friends or family members and tell them where they can get their weekly dose of inspiration. And we are so thankful for the thousands of five star ratings that you give us. These are making such a huge difference. The popularity of this podcast and our passion struck movement. Thank you so much for those ratings and reviews. They mean so much to us both on iTunes and on Spotify. Now, let's talk about today's guest. Aaron Big Deal is a business improv, a jutainer, fail-fluencer,

Starting point is 00:02:47 and professional zombie. Gotta love that introduction. Through a series of unrelated dares, Aaron created Improve It, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn, play, and grow. Aaron is a graduate from Clemson University, Anna former experiential

Starting point is 00:03:05 marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser. She's the proud host of the Improved Podcast, which helps leaders and teams develop through play, improv, and experiential learning. We discuss how her life's path took her to attend in Clemson University and the lessons that she learned from being a Division I athlete. We discuss her admiration for Oprah and how her life's path took her to attending Clemson University, and the lessons that she learned from being a Division I athlete. We discuss her admiration for Oprah, and why that admiration led her to actually moving to Chicago to pursue her dreams. How she discovered improv, and what it was like to go through improv training at the legendary Second City in Chicago.

Starting point is 00:03:42 The five rules of improv, and how you can improve your life every day, how she uses improv to coach teams, to tackle imposter syndrome and facing failure. Why she is dedicating much of her efforts to fail fluencing and helping people understand the importance of perseverance. We end the show doing our own ad hoc improv session. Something I think the audience is absolutely going to love. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

Starting point is 00:04:22 So excited to welcome Aaron Deal to the Passion Struck Podcast. Welcome, Aaron. Thank you for having me, John. I am honored thrilled to be here, so thank you. I am very excited about this interview and really looking forward to learning a lot more about improv and how that can affect both your work life and your personal life. But I thought for the audience, maybe an interesting place to start is I was researching you and found out that you went to Clemson and then found out you liked to dance. And I heard there's this group there called the Rally Cats. Were you part of that and can you tell me more about it? John, I would be glad to. So yes, these are my glory days. No, but it was 20 years a plus ago that I was able to go to my family's tradition. It's Clemson has been in my family

Starting point is 00:05:22 for years. My dad went there. My brother, the guy I married, is went to Clemson has been in my family for years. My dad went there, my brother. The guy I married is went to Clemson as well, but we didn't know each other until after, which is crazy. But yeah, I was a rally cat. I danced my whole life and had vowed to not go to Clemson. That was sort of where I said, I'm gonna be different.

Starting point is 00:05:43 I'm going to art school. I'm going to be a theater major, which is what every parent wants to hear. And my dad took me to a basketball game at Clemson, my senior year of high school. And I saw the rally cat stance and perform. And I was a dancer and said, I'm going to do that. And so you couldn't audition until your sophomore year. I auditioned, my freshman year going into sophomore year, made the team, and it was one of the best experiences of my life to stand on a football field in front of 80,000 passionate people who love.

Starting point is 00:06:21 Clemson is one of those schools that the spirit is so strong. I mean, even before we were national champions, you get on campus and you just feel this energy, this positivity, this community. And it's in Clemson, South Carolina. So there's nothing there but the school. And you go into that, you drive this it literally through like fields of nothing. And there's tiger paws on the pavement as you get into Clemson downtown Clemson. And I loved being a part of the dance team.

Starting point is 00:06:55 It was a varsity sport, got a varsity letter. We competed, we were six in the nation my junior year. And it was an absolute blast and some of my best friends are from my days of being a rally cat still to this day. So I loved it. Well that's incredible that you got that opportunity and I understand that you started dancing at a very young age. So I was wondering with what you do now, how influential was dancing So I was wondering with what you do now, how influential was dancing to your life progression and who you are today? John, I like this question. So I started dancing at three. My mother was in community theater. She taught singing lessons and piano lessons out of my house. And I did not, again, this is me being stubborn. I didn't want to be like my mom,

Starting point is 00:07:45 and I couldn't sing. So there was that. She put me in dance at three and I fell in love with it. And what was so interesting to me as I continue performing and acting and singing, what I did sing, but not well, it's more like an upscale karaoke. I really started to just understand that dance is a team sport. You can't, unless you're doing a solo, there's so much teamwork that has to be, it has to be taken account for when you're creating these, these combinations, these formations. So I fell in love with being a part of a team through dance and I fell in love with performing through dance. I fell in love with making somebody smile

Starting point is 00:08:29 and I'll say this, I don't wanna brag, but I will. As a rally cat, I was one of the most well-known rally cats during the time I was there because I connected with the audience. I was very expressive, which is shocking to no one who knows me, but I was very expressive, which is shocking to no one who knows me. But I was very attuned to creating connection. And so I also had a script.

Starting point is 00:08:51 I had a choreography. So when I started to do improv training and when I started to immerse myself in that world, it was actually really hard for me to let go of control because I wanted a script so that took time and effort. But the things that I received from my dance training were just discipline. The importance of team and the importance of that community and the importance of knowing that if I do my part that the team is going to succeed,

Starting point is 00:09:22 not just me. It was it any parent who thinks about putting their kid into dance should do it immediately. It was a very, very important part of my development. And still, I carry a lot of it with me today and the work I do now. I'm sure it also helps with self-esteem and also, if you start learning how to see that you make mistakes and are able to laugh at yourself and able to overcome some of that stage frighten

Starting point is 00:09:51 in early age, I'm sure that is very helpful as you get older as well. So I heard this rumor that you wanted to be Oprah and followed her all the way to Chicago. Is this a true story? Oh, John, I love this research. This is good. This is good, yeah. And I still, like if I could be her or meet her today, oops, are you listening? No, I just think that she's fantastic at what she does.

Starting point is 00:10:19 And again, that's sort of that theme. She connects with her audience. She knows what they want. She loves people. And the way that she's used her platform for good has always been inspirational to me. So yes, I followed her from my, I graduated Clemson with a degree in communications, not theater, okay?

Starting point is 00:10:43 Said, what does one do with this? How do you become a talk show host? There was no courses online courses back then it was 2005. Facebook had just come out. There was no social media really at that time. Thank God. And I said, what should I do? How do I train to become a talk show host? So I ended up moving to Chicago, the home of OPs. And I walked my 21 year old, 22 year old self into the actor's equity office auditioned for a show that involved improv, got the part,

Starting point is 00:11:19 because it was a part for a dancer, type cast, and said, okay, I guess I need to invest in some improv trading. And Chicago is the heartbeat of improv. So that's what catapulted it. And I did go to a taping of the Oprah Winfrey show. And it was magical. I cried. I actually took my now husband on his birthday. And he was like, this is not a present for me. And I was like, I know, I know. But I love her. I love her so much. I actually have a picture of her in my office. This artist, it's called celebs on sandwiches. So he puts celebrities on sandwiches. So I've oppressed sitting on a Caprice sandwich looking at me while I work almost every day. Well, I love this story and she's an inspiration to me as well.

Starting point is 00:12:14 In fact, a lot of what she has done with Oprah and the platform are in the future where I hope PassionStruck will go once we transition from podcast into doing more television, short movies and other things. So I couldn't agree more. I was lucky enough that I have been to the second city multiple times because my really good friends here in St. Petersburg, Florida are a prominent family in Chicago and they own a ton of property there.

Starting point is 00:12:44 Probably close to a billion dollars worth of property. And they own the old city bar that's catty corner to it. So it was very convenient there. But if someone doesn't know the second city, I'm just going to give out some of the names. Ellen, Alda, Dan Acroid, John Belushi, Bill Murray, and others. And before we get into talking about the second city where you studied, and if the listener isn't aware, it's probably the predominant comedy and improv club in the entire country. Some might say the entire world. But one day my aunt who grew up in Chicago and Glenview, she was walking down an alley after work, it was dark out,

Starting point is 00:13:27 and suddenly someone grabs her from behind and starts swinging her around. And she's in shock, and it's her elementary classmate, Bill Murray, swinging her around, saying, Pat, how's it going? Stop. And she said, even to this day, he will go back to elementary school and middle school reunions. And she just said he was just the funniest kid she ever met. A little bit of a detour there, but I thought you would like it.

Starting point is 00:13:57 I love it. Wait, can I, can I jump in on that really quick? Because this is parallel. You and I were chatting before the show. Bill Murray actually lives in Charleston, South Carolina, where I I now currently live and he is known to put there's a whole documentary on him on Netflix. He's known to just pop up and random bars and random house parties in Charleston. Did you know that? Like he literally just shows up and it's like the and he's like the man of the city like everybody is like where's Bill Murray? Isn't that insane? He's just a good guy. Yeah, I had no idea he lived in Charleston. I can imagine it based on what my aunt has told me the antics he used to throw. But seems just like just a real genuine nice guy. But with that list of A players and I mean I could go on and on because there's like 15 or 20 more I could name. Like, what was it like going there and how intimidating was that for you to walk into that environment?

Starting point is 00:14:56 Woo! All right. God, you have some great questions. Hey, don't quit your day job, John. Okay. So, let me say this. I, the first day, I did Second City twice. I started when I was in my early 20s in Chicago and I was doing the off Broadway show. Then I had to travel a bunch and I was, I paid rent in Chicago, but I didn't necessarily live in Chicago. So I came back to Second City when I was 27 and a little bit more life experience. Now, let me share this part with you. Growing up, saying, danced, acted. High school was in the

Starting point is 00:15:41 comedy sketch show for my high school. I'm voted, I'm gonna toot my own horn to, to best actress. Voted class clown by my peers, okay? So I was told I was funny from a young age. That was what people told me. When you walk into a second city class or any improv class, the funniest person in the room is never going to succeed. You try to make a joke, you try to be the punchline that's never going to work. It's the truth and the reaction to the

Starting point is 00:16:12 what the person in front of you just said that is the comedic piece. It's the reaction, it's the yes and we call it. It's the being present in that moment and making the person you're on stage with look good. And it took me many classes to figure that out. So I was not good at improv when I first started. And I'm going to be real with you. I don't even consider myself an amazing improviser to this day. I just understand comedy and I surround myself with the funniest people because they make me look good.

Starting point is 00:16:48 And I make them look good because I believe the crap out of them, and I know how talented they are. So when I first walked in that door, I had what I call the Ick factor. It's where my armpits, or anybody's armpits, get really sweaty, and you just feel disgusting. Like you're like, how can I walk in this room? I'm, and so every, every class, I would get sweaty. My stomach would

Starting point is 00:17:13 turn. I would feel like sometimes I was just like, I can't go today because then I'd make up some excuse. And then a light bulb hit. I trained it all the major schools in Chicago. It actually took me going to two more schools of thought of Iven Proof Comedy to find my voice. And when I found her, that's when the magic happened. I learned I didn't have to be the funniest person. My goal was just to get on stage and support. And that's when it became like therapy. That's when it became like a drug that I kept wanting more and more of. And that's when I actually really considered myself an improviser, but it was not a natural thing.

Starting point is 00:17:55 I grew up with a script, punching punchlines. I grew up just really, and I'll say this to this day, I'm type A. And my whole entire internal team, there's only, most of them actually now are not improvisers. My facilitators are improvisers, but it's an anomaly to find an improviser who's type A. Improvisors are this amazing special breed of human. And I had to learn to let go of control.

Starting point is 00:18:22 And to not, I still, you know, say this now I'm a recovering perfectionist, to turn Phil Flueh once or I had to lean into the suck. I had so many bad shows, John. I can't even, I mean, and my dear husband, we've been together 14 years. He saw a lot of really bad ones and he'll make fun of them now, right? But it was, when they sucked, you just felt it. You felt like you were like everything sucked after that. Like nothing could be good because you were so bad

Starting point is 00:18:52 that last night on stage. So your next day, you would have to work through that. I had so many of those, but I'm grateful for that training and I'm grateful for the times that I persevered through it because it brought me this amazing team of people I have and so I'm so lucky to surround myself with them. We'll be right back to my interview with Aaron Deel. Finding a doctor, that has to be one of the most inconvenient things that we have to do and recently I was searching for a new dermatologist when I

Starting point is 00:19:23 stumbled upon Zock-Dock. And no one's better at giving you the tools to find the perfect doctor than Zock-Dock. There are some amazing doctors out there, but let's face it, the only ones that matter are the ones who actually take your insurance and who wants to waste time hunting down Antlinda's cash-only chiropractor anyhow.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Zock-Dock is a free app that shows you doctors who are not only patient-reviewed, they also take your insurance and are available when you need them. Go to zopdoc.com slash passion struck and download the ZopDoc app for free. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours at zocdoc.com slash passion struck zop doc.com slash passion struck. And please support those who support our show now back to my interview with Aaron deal. Well, I understand there are five basic rules to improv and for someone who's never done it before could you kind of tell them what some of those ground rules are?

Starting point is 00:20:25 Oh my God, John, this research is on par. So first and foremost, yes, and that is one of the biggest tenants of improvisation. And that means you don't have to agree with everything somebody says on stage. It just means you don't negate their idea to move a scene forward. So if you and I are on stage,

Starting point is 00:20:47 say something to me real quick. What's a line of dialogue you might say to me on stage? Why do you like pizza so much? I don't like pizza. I have a gluten intolerance, John. An intolerance to gluten? Yes. Why don't you eat a gluten free pie then? to gluten? Yes. Why don't you eat a gluten free pie then? Because I don't like gluten free pies. Okay, so see, okay, that was a scene, right? A little, a little mini scene. That could have been changed. And right there, what I don't know if you felt it, but for me, that was mean negating your idea, right? So there was nowhere for us to continue that scene by me shutting it down saying, I don't like pizza. I have a gluten intolerance. You were like, well, why don't you try gluten free? And then I just shut it down again. A way that I could

Starting point is 00:21:35 have changed that was when you said, if I could have responded to you with, yeah, oh my gosh, pizza. I love pizza with pineapple and pepperoni. It's my favorite. So why? And have you ever had a wine pizza? And then we could have kept going back and pineapple and pepperoni. It's my favorite. So why, and have you ever had a wine pizza? And then we could have kept going back and forth and sharing ideas. That's guessing and in action. It's taking what somebody says and adding to it, not negating it in its tracks.

Starting point is 00:21:55 It's a life skill, it's a philosophy, it's a stage skill, it's everything. It's the foundation in which my business is built on. So that's one. Two is there are no mistakes only gifts. So I have this sign behind me, if your listeners are listening, so you can't see it, but it says fail. Yeah. And so anything that happens on stage that may be a mistake to you and I, it actually doesn't become a mistake. We make it a part of the scene. So if we were talking, let's say I spoke my water on my computer.

Starting point is 00:22:28 And I was like, oh crap! And it fell, right? Instead of letting that just sit and moving on, and people are like, why should you say oh crap? I say, oh, crap! Crap is my favorite game to play in Vegas. John, have you been to Vegas lately? Remember I told you about that convention I was speaking play in Vegas. John, have you been to Vegas lately? Remember I told you about that convention

Starting point is 00:22:45 I was speaking at in Vegas. So, and then that can continue this conversation, but instead of it just letting it be the mistake, I let it be a part of the conversation. So, no mistakes, only guess is just a philosophy that we are driving home in organizations, we're driving home in our own organization. It is about progress, not perfection,

Starting point is 00:23:09 and it's really about allowing failures to be a part of our day to day. Because if you're not failing, you're not trying, you're not innovating, you're remaining stagnant. So we celebrate that failure, and that's an impromptu philosophy and an improvot philosophy, all the things. I'm gonna go quick. I got five.

Starting point is 00:23:25 So number three give and take so a good improv scene is literally about give and take same in working relationships, same in personal relationships, allowing each person's voice to really feel heard. One of the fourth roles and these are just my I mean, there's so many roles, but these are my personal five roles that I really lean into as improv as a teaching tool, is support which goes into yes and, but it's really about supporting the people around you, making them look good.

Starting point is 00:23:57 And one of the things that we say, every time, like what, yesterday we did this showcase for 80 Some People, and my team were on Zoom. We look at each other and we're like, got your back and we like pat the back of our computer screens. And if we're in person, we'll obviously pat each other's back. But that in itself is showing each other. I got you, you're not alone in this. I'm going to support you because how else can you go on stage for 30 minutes and make something up with seven people without supporting them. So is that number four? That was number four, right? Yeah. That's four. Number five. If I were to say

Starting point is 00:24:33 out of all of the fundamentals that improv really does, it is about leaning into this notion of of everybody is a genius poet and scholar. So this is from a quote from one of the most famous improvisers Del Close that he helped create one of the schools of thought of comedy in Chicago. And he said, if you think that every single person is a poet, artist and a scholar, a genius poet and a scholar, that right away you're not judging them,

Starting point is 00:25:09 you are allowing that person to show up in their greatest self. And if you play from that place of intelligence that you think yourself, as of yourself as a poet, a genius or a scholar, you're gonna show up with confidence and you're gonna make the other person on stage feel so confident and happy to be standing next to you too. So in community is in organizations and teams, that's just believing in the people around you and instilling that

Starting point is 00:25:37 confidence and then that they can show up and do good work. So those are my five. While you're doing improv, is it a no-no to ask someone an open-ended question? It isn't no-no. It isn't. Well, it's a no-no. That's actually about giving a... That's actually like, we say give gifts, right? So instead of me saying, what do you think about pineapple pizza? I could say, oh, John, pineapple pizza is fantastic. Have you ever put pepperoni on top of the pineapple pizza? And right there, I'm giving you like a more specific thing to answer instead of being like, what do you think about pineapple pizza? I'm giving you specifics that you can take an ad to. And the open it a question piece as you kind of lack of a better word, an experienced improviser,

Starting point is 00:26:33 you can ask questions because you know the way to ask them, but in the very beginning stages of improv training, you are told to not give questions or to ask questions, you're told to just give, give nuggets so that you can take that nugget and add to it. Don't do the work or don't make the person do the work your scene partner, actually do the work for them. So this is something that to me scares me to death because if you're a fan of Susan Cain and her book Quiet, I'm what they call a high-reactive person, which means very much introverted. To me, even the thought of doing something like that or public speaking, which amazing I'm doing the podcast. What's gonna say?

Starting point is 00:27:21 It is very nerve-racking, but I have to tell you a story. When I was a senior executive at Dell, Michael Dell asked me to go on around the world trip with a friend of his who was starting at that time, a relatively small company called Salesforce. And so I went around the world with Mark Benioff to all these different countries and cities. around the world with Mark Benioff to all these different countries and cities. But every time I would do one of these speaking engagements with them, he never followed the script. And so it was always the two of us interacting.

Starting point is 00:27:55 And I had no clue what was going to come out of his mouth. So I sat there like on pins and needles like, where is he going to go today? And the most funny example of it was we got to do the keynote for Dream Force. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's a big conference. And there are about 45,000, 50,000 people in front of us. And we had rehearsed the day before. We're up there at the teleprompter. He doesn't use it at all. So he starts ad-libbing again. And then to make it worse He's got some very diverse friends and one of them is will I am and will I am is sitting at the front? Of the entire auditorium making Google eyes and trying to get us both to crack up to me

Starting point is 00:28:38 That was like my worst nightmare, but it was almost like I was in an improv Situation right there. On steroids, that's like improv on steroids. But you nailed it, John. You were an improviser. You are an improviser. You know that, right? Do you know that? I just did what had to be done as well as I possibly could while not completely losing it because I wanted to just burst out and laughter. Plus, it would take a comedy show because like five foot 10, he's like six foot eight.

Starting point is 00:29:10 So, it's a big towering guy over me. That is, well, can I say something to you about that though? Because I wanna give you so much credit. You need to give yourself credit where credit is due. First of all, you have a podcast. Okay, this is improv at its finest. You are reacting to anything your guests say. So you are an improviser. Number two, that is improv on steroids. That would

Starting point is 00:29:31 make Bill Murray shake, I think, because if there's a teleprompter in a script and you've got people trying to get you off out of your element and out of the presence of where you're at, supposed to be focused on this teleprompter, that in itself is improvisation and it's hard. Anybody would be nervous because that's a large audience and you don't know where it's gonna go, but the beautiful thing is that you've believed in yourself enough to do this or make, like you were traveling with Michael Dell.

Starting point is 00:30:02 You have this insane confidence about you to be able to get to that place, to be able to stand in front of 50,000 people. And this is improv, like you are improvising this whole time. That is something that I find a lot of people find intimidating is the word because it automatically makes you think, oh my gosh, I have to think quickly on the spot. I have no idea what I'm talking about right now. I'm just talking, right? But this is improv. And this is every single day of our lives is an improv scene.

Starting point is 00:30:32 We get to choose an adventure after an adventure. And the beautiful thing about you is that you don't even recognize that power is that you are an improviser. You're doing it. And it is a really interesting thing too with the introvertedness, I wanna say. A lot of my team would classify that we have 22 facilitators

Starting point is 00:30:54 between New York, Chicago, LA. Definitely an extrovert. I'm like, I put the extra an extrovert, but my team are classified introverts. But you put them on stage and they come alive. But I want you to take some credit because you are an improviser. You just, the word choice may be a little scary,

Starting point is 00:31:15 but you do it every day. I just had to get off the stage and take a two-day break. To digest what just happened. I actually wanted to cut a joke on Will I am? And I probably should have the crowd would have probably loved it because they would have probably panned in on him doing it. Hindsight is always 2020. So I did want to ask what are some of the life benefits that you have seen from learning improv and some of the things I was you're working with clients that you've seen it benefit them and how they've changed their approach or maybe style. I'm gonna talk personally and then I'll go

Starting point is 00:31:56 clients because improv changed my life. Obviously I've made it my livelihood. When I started really diving back into improv in my late 20s, I was working at a recruiting firm, I was doing business development. Talk about having real life doors slammed in your face. Like, it was people did not want what I was selling. I've never done sales in my life. It was a training ground I needed to build this business. I did not know that at the time. But everything that I was doing on stage and my classes on rehearsals, it started spilling into my day-to-day professional life. And that's why I got this idea for Improve It. I was a better listener. I was so present. for Improvitt. I was a better listener.

Starting point is 00:32:43 I was so present. I was more aware of my surroundings. I was more empathetic. And all of those things combined made me a better professional. It made me a better friend, a better wife, a better sister, daughter, all of the things. And so once Imp improved it was formed, we've been in business now eight years.

Starting point is 00:33:08 I started to really see the magic of this teaching tool come to life. And we work mostly with teams. I've also coached individuals, but when I walk into a room, let's say it's 20 people on a team, and they have had challenges with communication. Maybe there's cultural changes. Maybe there's I don't know a

Starting point is 00:33:29 global pandemic that has forced them to change the way they work. We can take two hours of our time and depending on whatever power skill we're training on, we'll walk in that room. There'll be 20, but we'll walk out and it will be a cohesive group of 20. It is transformative in the way that it fosters connection, creativity, the way that it allows people to drop the hypothetical mask that they wear to work. And I say this with love, we all wore masks to work before 2020. It was very it was very

Starting point is 00:34:06 apparent to me in the past two years how much we have actually had to drop by being at home because people are seeing into our homes and our lives. It's really interesting to get back in doing these in-person events to be able to see what it's like now because I think people are actually more connected now than ever. It's an interesting art form and one that I think has a magical, almost spiritual presence to it. And if you like Oprah, you know what I'm talking about.

Starting point is 00:34:38 Oprah is a spiritual person. For me, it's a transformative teaching tool that allows people to bring their whole selves and in bringing their whole selves, they really allow themselves to play. And in that play, that's where we teach what we're there to teach. This leads me into a great jumping off point into another topic I wanted to get into with you, which is imposter Syndrome because you were alluding to it when what you were talking about. But I was surprised to find that there are 62 studies that show that between 9 and 85%

Starting point is 00:35:16 of everyone at some point or another has Imposter Syndrome that they go through. How do you deal with imposter syndrome yourself and how have you helped clients you've worked with deal with imposter syndrome? One of the biggest fundamentals that we teach is we have 10 different offerings that we have with clients, but the overarching theme is confidence and bravery. Those two words go hand-in-hand for me. I can tell you with so much certainty that when I started improving it, I felt like a fraud. I felt like

Starting point is 00:35:58 this, how am I supposed to do this? I'm not on main stage at Second City. I'm not being flown to learn Michaels in New York to audition for Saturday Night Live. How was the improv community in Chicago gonna take this? That was my first thought. The second piece was, I know how to create long lasting relationships. I can do the business piece, but I don't have the same cloud as somebody else who's been doing this for 10 years. I just have me and my knowledge of improv. The overwhelming amount of positive

Starting point is 00:36:35 self-talk that I had to give myself in those early stages has really gotten me to the place I am now, but I'll tell you this, it's a daily practice. I constantly have to get myself in a space where I'm able to talk like this. So let me explain that just a little bit. And this kind of spurs into another thing. I started improving in 2014. I was married. I wanted to have a child. I could not get pregnant and my husband and I went through several years of infertility battles and there's a very,

Starting point is 00:37:16 very long story to that that I won't get into. But you science, lots of science. And I was at that time running the business on a different type of energy. It was a frantic, it was a reactionary, it was not the place that I am now. And through that, I had to really become a mindful person. I had to learn meditation, I had to learn energy. I had to learn all the things that are part of my daily work today. And I had to fill myself with that because I wasn't able to fill my team or anybody else's cup unless I had that teakettle full. So through the lens of mindfulness, meditation, and really allowing myself to connect with my

Starting point is 00:38:09 creativity in a deeper, meaningful way, I have overcome, I will not say overcome, I have stepped next to Imposter Syndrome and when she starts to creep up, I give her a little elbow to the face. The more I practice, the better I become at overcoming it. Improv allows you to experience a lot of these techniques and tools, and it allows you to be, we call it experiential learning allows you to actually feel what it feels like to do it the right way. And through that, you confidence is built and the imposter syndrome subsides. And I really do believe that this was my calling.

Starting point is 00:38:47 This was what I was supposed to do here on Earth. Like this is my purpose. And so when I facilitate now, I, and I've always felt this, it doesn't feel like Aaron deal. It's a version of me. It's like Sasha fierce from Beyonce. And it overtakes, it overtakes. And it's not me talking because some air and deal sometimes doesn't say these things. It is a force that has been channeled through

Starting point is 00:39:14 myself to help people connect and feel more confident and brave because I want people, I want every single person to feel like they are special, like they belong and that's what cultures need people need. And that's what improv does. Is it makes you feel seen, heard and valued and like you belong? And that's why I love it as a tool. And that's why that combined with mindfulness will always be what helps me combat that. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dr. Valerie Young, but in 2011 she wrote a groundbreaking book about why people suffer from imposter syndrome, but in it she identifies that they're basically

Starting point is 00:39:59 five different types, the perfectionist, meaning everything that you do, you feel you have to be perfect at, the perfectionist, meaning everything that you do, you feel you have to be perfect at, the natural genius, so you think you're smarter than everyone in the room, the soloist, meaning you believe that you don't need anyone else to help you accomplish important things, you're the one who does it, the expert, so you're the expert in everything and then the superhero, which is the world can't exist without your superpowers in it. And out of that list, which one have you personally identified with the most and why? I've not heard this book, but I'm going to read it. So thank you.

Starting point is 00:40:36 I would say the perfectionist when you said that, I was like, mm-hmm. And that's why I call myself a recovering one because turn fell flu answer. I now dubbed myself a fail flu answer. That's a self title gave myself that title. But oh my god. Perfect. I mean, let me just even say today, John, we launched a mastermind page on our website. We're launching a mastermind today.

Starting point is 00:41:02 mastermind page on our website. We're launching a mastermind today. I could have sat with that landing page and my marketing manager for probably two more days, but today was today, we were launching it and it was like nitpick and nitpick and nitpick. And I finally just said, this is amazing. This isn't exactly perfect. Let's put it out there

Starting point is 00:41:24 because we need to get this word out. We need people to understand this is happening. Perfectionism in itself is stifling. It is not appealing to the people that you work with. It actually allows you to self-doubt and think about what others think and more than actually just going forward. So I've started to really just lean in. This isn't AA plus. This is C plus or B. I'm going to put out the B so I can move on to get to the next thing. And the more that I've allowed myself to lean into that muscle, the more that I've created. And in that creativity, when I get into creativity mode and into flow mode,

Starting point is 00:42:17 so many good ideas come. And it's going to be, I mean, there's going to be a hundred ideas before one of them is really great, right? So trying, failing, trying, failing, trying, tweaking, failing, doing it again and again and again has really become what has catapulted improve it to the level it is today. And I will tell you, we were completely in-person business prior to the pandemic and we had to become completely virtual overnight. So there were, I mean, I could give you like 500 fails that we did in the past two years and we just had to let go of the perfection and make it happen. Are we wouldn't exist? Let's explore this fail-fluencing. Man, I love that name, fail-fluencing. Yeah. So you're

Starting point is 00:43:06 gonna love this when I was at Lowe's. We talked a little bit about this before you came on the show. One of my peers and probably one of my closest friends was gentleman named Steve Shirley. And we used to always tease him because he went to this university called Clemson. And he would always just totally urk our boss who was the CIO, because he's like, Steve, we have to learn how to fail fast and fail often. And Steve used to get so mad,

Starting point is 00:43:38 he goes, why would I want to fail? We need to succeed and succeed often. He's like, no, you don't get it. Failure brings you success. My question is, why do you think failure is equally important as success? Oh my god. Well, if you don't fail, you can't succeed because this is imposter syndrome, the spinning wheel of I have to keep trying until it's absolutely perfect. And if I don't make it perfect, I'm not going to put it out into the world. You could just sit and sit and sit on perfection, but it is that failure

Starting point is 00:44:11 that we've learned. I mean, you don't, you learn more at the bottom than you learn more at the top. And that is true for everything in life. And this idea of fill-fluencing happened in 2020 when I watched contract after contract, we ripped up from under us. I watched every improviser who was performing on all these beautiful stages, sit at home, and have to learn how to improvise on Zoom.

Starting point is 00:44:44 When I watched our clients who were, I said at home and have to learn how to improvise on Zoom. When I watched our clients who were, you know, so excited for us to come in person, not want to work with us because they're like, how does this work over Zoom. And so, I mean, the things that we did in the beginning of 20 of March or 2020 were so reactionary and I look back now and I'm like, that's because we were just figuring it out. And a lot of them didn't work, but we kept trying and we kept trying and we kept trying. And that's why I said, I'm a fail fluencer because I just told my team, we're going to celebrate. That's one of the biggest rules of improv. No mistakes, only gifts. So this, this membership program failed. Okay, what did we learn? I don't know. Don't throw up everything you have to your membership and give them space to learn. So they aren't overwhelmed by the work

Starting point is 00:45:28 that you're helping to help them with. It's learning that this isn't gonna work exactly how we have it in person, but here's how we can tweak it. And let's do it again and let's tweak it and let's do it again. And it really is, in that perfectionism that stifles innovation through the pandemic, we

Starting point is 00:45:46 put every single offering that we have online on Zoom. We created pre-work videos that now serve as the pre-work courses to our offerings. We created something called laugh break, which is laughter infused into your Zoom meetings, which we just did two of them yesterday. We created this podcast that I have. We created this mastermind program that we're launching. We created revenue streams that we never were to have created unless we just tried them and failed

Starting point is 00:46:17 at the first iteration. And I'm really proud of that. My team and I, we have failure parties quarterly. So instead of creating like a vision board of the next quarter, we make a PowerPoint and we put pictures on it of the things that we did both personally and professionally that sucked. And we present them to each other.

Starting point is 00:46:37 And it's, we celebrate, we say failure. And those are the F words that we want at work failure for us failure plus the frequency of it equals the fundamentals of success because the more you fail the more you're trying and the more you're trying the more you're innovating and you're not just sitting sitting I heard this we had a wonderful guest on her show Cara golden the founder of hint water said, complacency will kill you. And that's what not trying is, is complacency. It's the opposite of failing.

Starting point is 00:47:15 I look at failure as one of the most positive words in my vocabulary now. I really do. Well, I think that's a great logical point to ask this next question, which is, what is the link between failure and building resilience and perseverance? Oh, my God. I mean, if I had like a special skill on my resume, it would be perseverance. And I mean, John, I can even just tell you like there was an incidence with my payroll company that I've been working with them on for months. And I just kept persevering through until finally I came up with a workaround recently

Starting point is 00:48:03 that they pushed through the thing that I've been trying to get them to push for the roof for three months today because I just kept going at it and going at it. And anybody who knows me, this is true for my business, this is true for life. I mean, I basically just told I could never have a child. And I kept trying and I kept trying and I kept believing and I kept trying new methods. And I'm a mother because of that perseverance. I am still in business because I didn't just sit still

Starting point is 00:48:32 when the world was sitting still. Everybody was binging Netflix. I'm like, listen, no, I'm binging YouTube on how to create a virtual business. I think perseverance is just the key to anything, great that we want to pit out in the world, anything that you care about and you're passionate about. If you're passion struck, her surveillance is next to failure. And the words that would describe you, because if you have a lot of passion about something and you truly believe in it. You will not stop until it happens

Starting point is 00:49:05 and that's one of the greatest things that I've learned in my lifetime is that if I want something, I will make it happen because I will stop at nothing. If I really believe that it's what I meant to do or something that can help somebody else. I believe when you bring up passion struck, to me passion struck isn't a final destination. It's a state of something you're trying to achieve. And I think throughout life we've got pitfalls and other things that hit us. So at some points in your life you could be closer to the ideal aspect of self-actualization and at other times life hits you and you're kind of going through this rebuilding process.

Starting point is 00:49:50 But to me, it's that constant desire to want to be your best version of yourself. And let's face it, the one equalizer that we all have in life, regardless of background, skin color, anything else, is we are all going to face obstacles and it's how you come out of those obstacles that defines who you are and what you can become. So I agree with you. I heard you like to play games and I was wondering if you would like to play a game. Let's play a game, John. I'm here. I'm here for it. Let's go. My understanding is when you coach your clients, you often have them do games around improv. So I was hoping and believe me, I'm stepping way out of my comfort zone here because I have no idea what's coming next. I was hoping you

Starting point is 00:50:39 might talk us through one and we can just do it for a couple of minutes. John. Oh, my God. So I gosh, I get to coach the game. That's what you're going to give me the game. Okay, absolutely. And let me just say this, I know you're stepping out of your comfort zone. Right now, we are going to take the John that was at Dell in Salesforce or Dreamforce, however many years ago, and we are going to transform this experience because you're about to be an all-star. Here we go. Here we go. Alright, let's do yes and I think this is just very applicable because it talks a lot about what we were talking about with support and it's a very easy, very fun game. Alright, so here's what we're going to do. We are

Starting point is 00:51:18 going to plan a summer bash, okay, you and me. And we're gonna come up with food, entertainment, and a location for the summer bash. Here's the caveat. You, every time you share an idea, are gonna say yes and you're gonna give me a lot of excitement. You're gonna share it with energy, enthusiasm. I'm gonna be Debbie Downer, and I'm gonna say no because to every idea, all right? And then, I'm gonna pause us halfway through, and I'm gonna give us a little change of direction, but let's just start there, says Hanken. We'll try this out.

Starting point is 00:51:50 All right, yes, Ann, say yes, Ann, and just tell me about this party, who's gonna be there, what's the food, all of that? Oh my God, we are putting on this huge party in Kyowa Island, and it is gonna be right there with golf courses, overlooking the majestic ocean. It is going to be so incredible. We're going to have all kinds of dignitaries from Charleston there. People are going to come down from Columbia, Savannah, Charlotte, you name it as well as

Starting point is 00:52:20 a whole bunch of my friends here from Florida. No, because if we plan it near the ocean, it's probably gonna be hurricane season. And I don't wanna put people in that type of situation. It doesn't sound like a good idea, John. Well, yes, and I've thought about that because if we do have bad weather, there are alternate plans that we can put in place where they still have this

Starting point is 00:52:45 amazing resort where we could use their inside facilities. You should see this bar they have. It is so ornate. People would just gather around it, they would have so much fun. We could do different types of hors d'oeuvres. I think people would just love it. Now because I am not a big fan of finger food or herbs. We need to do like a full course meal. We need everybody sitting at a table because there's just too much going on with a buffet right now.

Starting point is 00:53:14 I don't like small foods. I don't like finger foods. Not gonna work. I can see why we might want to do that. So maybe we could do both. Start out by doing some more derbs and then get into a bigger meal where we could then use this as this amazing opportunity

Starting point is 00:53:32 to invite some of the guests to come on and maybe do an improv of our own up there amongst everyone. Yes, but do you think everybody would be interested in improv? Yes, I think if we everybody would be interested in improv? Yes, I think if we did it in the right vein and did it with the spirit of fun, that it would be something everyone would enjoy. Yes, but do you have a guest list, a very specific guest list?

Starting point is 00:53:59 Yes, I have over 150 people identified that I would like to have at this party. Yes, and I have another 150 people that I know in Charleston. So I could, I could piggyback off that. Let's we have 300 people at this site. Yes, it sounds like a wedding. Yes, and you know what's so funny? I got married in Charleston,

Starting point is 00:54:19 so I have the perfect band. Yes, and who would that be? Yes, and it's Kiana, parlour and friends, and Kiana was actually a backup singer for Kelly Clarkston. Well, yes, let's do it. That would be hard to beat. Yes, I'm so excited. Okay, take a bow, John, take a bow, take a bow. You nailed it. You nailed it. Now, I sort of didn't tell you the change of direction. I just did it, but you said yes and the whole time. I was Debbie Downer, no because for a couple of back and forths.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Then I came in with a yes but, what happened there? Did you notice I changed to yes but? I did, and I was wondering, should I change the Debbie Downer? I just got going with it. No, it was great. It was great because I wanted you to feel that energy shift in between the no because, and then when I started saying yes,

Starting point is 00:55:11 but because we say in improv that no because is a fun vacuum, it squashes all of the ideas. There was really nowhere else. I mean, I felt like you felt that. I felt that. I don't like being the no because person, right? It's like there's really nowhere else to take the conversation because I've squashed the fun that you were trying

Starting point is 00:55:28 to bring. Then I said, yes, but and we say an improv that that yes, but is like no dressed up and like a fancy little tuxedo with the bow tides. Yes, I hear you, but there's still a caveat. Yes, but I don't like finger foods. Yes, but do you have a guest list? Kind of still squashing the idea not fully giving it the breath and the energy it needs, but then when I started saying yes and what did you feel? Was there a difference there when I yes handed you as well?

Starting point is 00:56:00 Yeah, I mean, it felt like you were more getting on board with what we were doing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I felt more energetic. And then I felt like you were more getting on board with what we were doing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I felt more energetic. And then I felt it made you more energetic. We had a great band. I mean, Keanu would crush it. And then we had this awesome list of people, 300 people.

Starting point is 00:56:16 And it was this energy that was sharing of ideas. And so it's through that lens of, yes, and that companies and people are able to share ideas, build off each other's ideas, make people feel heard because when people feel heard, that's when they want to show up and when they want to show up, that's when productivity rises and when that happens, everyone wins. So that's the beauty of this, of one of the biggest rules of improvisation is how you can make people feel seen heard and wanna show up at work, use the ass-and, use it. Well, now I'm gonna get you to play a little bit of a game.

Starting point is 00:56:55 Yeah, okay. One of the favorite spots on this podcast is people love the quick question and answer period. So I'm gonna just ask you a series of four or five quick questions. Yes. So you are invited to guest host the late late show and you have to do car karaoke. Who are you going to invite in the car with you? Oh my god. Okay, Beyoncé, just Oh my God, okay, Beyonce, just 1000% Beyonce. Okay, you have a ton of success habits. What is your most predominant one?

Starting point is 00:57:32 Morning routine. Okay, and what's the name of the most played song on your phone? Oh man, it's a tie, but I'm gonna, okay, I'm gonna go unstoppable by Sia. Okay, and what is your most disdainful chore that you have to do? Oh.

Starting point is 00:58:03 It's such a really gross one, but I'll say just a full drawer. I'm picking up this is gross. My hair off the bathroom floor. I have long hair, so it's really gross. Basically, it's like a mop every day of my hair. It's gross. If I'm worse than that is having to get it out of the drain as I have to do with my 18 year old all the time. What is your favorite form of exercise?

Starting point is 00:58:29 Reading. Okay, and then the last one, and my favorite one is I've had a number of astronauts on this podcast. And so if you were an astronaut and you were on the mission to Mars and the governments involved said the first people who land on Mars can put in a law, principle, or edict for the rest of Mars' history, what would it be? Oh, this is the best question ever.

Starting point is 00:58:59 That everyone wears a sign around their neck that says make me feel important and everyone adheres to the sign. I want to live in Mars. That's a good one. I just one I have not heard yet before. The listener who's out there and you got to name the company a bunch of times, but what are some different ways that they can connect with both you and your company?

Starting point is 00:59:24 Thank you. You can, we have a and your company. Thank you. You can, we have a podcast, the Improve It podcast. John, we've got to have you on the Improve It podcast. So that is one of the ways you can listen to even more trips and tricks on improv training, anywhere you listen to the pods. Improve it, sorry, that is not my website. Learn to Improveit.com.

Starting point is 00:59:44 Learn to ImproveIt.com is our website. I'm the only air and deal from improve it on LinkedIn. And my Instagram is keeping no G. It real deal D I E H L. And I'm just keeping it real with the real these days. Like I never thought I would dance and do voice dub things but I'm doing it John I'm doing it so gotta gotta lean in gotta lean it but that's it and I'm so grateful to have been on the show thank you so much yes thank you so much it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed doing it with you thanks again thanks Big shout out to Aaron Deal. And all things Aaron are located in the show notes at PassionStruct.com. Please use our website links.

Starting point is 01:00:31 If you buy any books from the guest on the show, they all go to supporting the show and making it free for our listeners. I place videos of all these episodes on my YouTube channel at John Armiles. And advertisers, deals and discounts are all located in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show and on that JonRMiles both on Twitter and Instagram and you can also find me at LinkedIn. If you want to know how I book all these amazing guests on the podcast it's because of my network. Build those

Starting point is 01:01:01 relationships before you need them and most of the guests on the show actually subscribe to the podcast and contribute ideas for topics and guests. Come join us, you'll be in Smart Company. You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Struck podcast with Dr. David Yaden, an assistant professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. His work in the Center for Psychedelic and Conscious Research focuses on a psychology neuroscience

Starting point is 01:01:27 and psychopharmacology of so-called spiritual, self-transcendent, and other positively transformative experiences. I think we can call these experiences self-transcendent experiences. This is like an umbrella term. And self-transcendent experiences, there's a lot of different ones, but they seem similar in that they're all intensely altered states of consciousness, involving some degree of self-diminishment and feelings of connectedness. And these range in intensity. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends or family members when you find something useful or interesting on the show.

Starting point is 01:02:06 If you know someone who's really into improv and all this nonverbal communication stuff, definitely share this episode with them. The greatest gift that you can give us is to share the show with those that you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen to. And we'll see you next time. Remember, live life, action struck, and thank you for joining us.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Erin Diehl on Why Every Day of Our Lives Is an Improv Scene EP 153

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.