Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Homaira Kabir on How You Overcome the Tyranny of Perfection EP 455

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on Passion Strike. When we have positive global beliefs, we live this authentic life with a sense of pride and joy and ease. When we don't have this, we're striving insecurely to prove ourselves in some way. So at the end of the day, belonging is about connecting to ourselves, understanding who we are, learning to like ourselves again, building relationships of trust where there's emotional connection, understanding what brings us joy, what doesn't bring us joy. And then from this place of security, stepping out into, okay, what do I enjoy doing? What brings me a feeling of connection, a feeling of authenticity, and

Starting point is 00:00:42 then having the courage to go out and do it. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power

Starting point is 00:01:02 of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passion struck.

Starting point is 00:01:27 Hello everyone and welcome back to episode 455 of passion struck. Consistently ranked by Apple is the number one alternative health podcast. A heartfelt thank you to each and every one of you who return to the show every week eager to listen, learn, and discover new ways to live better, be better, and most importantly to make a meaningful impact in the world. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here, or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or a family member,

Starting point is 00:01:50 and we so appreciate it when you do that. We have episodes starter packs, which are collections of our fans' favorite episodes that we organize in a convenient playlist. We give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do here on the show. Either go to Spotify or passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started.

Starting point is 00:02:04 I want to take a moment to honor someone very special to me, my sister Carolyn Miles. Many of you who are regular listeners have heard me talk about Carolyn's brave battle with pancreatic cancer. Carolyn was not only a tremendous source of inspiration and strength for everyone who knew her, but she also taught us the profound importance of living each day with courage and intention, even in the face of life's toughest challenges. Today, as we dive into our discussion, let's carry forward her indomitable spirit and remember the lasting impact she has left on our lives. I am also so excited to announce that my book Passionstruck won the

Starting point is 00:02:34 gold medal at the Non-Fiction Book Awards and is also on the shortlist for the Eric Hofer Book Award Grand Prize. Additionally, this past week we also launched the audiobook version, which is narrated by me. You can find it on the PassionStruck website, Amazon or wherever you purchase books. In case you missed my interview from earlier in the week, it featured my friend, the renowned nutritionist Oz Garcia. Join us as Oz shares his expert insights on longevity, wellness and the art of thriving at any age. From his early career shifts to pioneering strategies for metabolic health, Oz dives deep into how we can optimize our health for a vibrant, energetic future. And if you liked that previous episode or today's, we would so appreciate you giving

Starting point is 00:03:11 it a 5-star rating and review. It goes such a long way in helping us strengthen the passion-struck community where we can help more people to create intentional, purpose-driven lives. And I know we and our guests love to hear your feedback. Today I want to welcome you to an enlightening conversation with Homera Kabir, a renowned author, coach, and thought leader. In this discussion we delve deep into the heart of Homera's transformative book, Goodbye Perfect, a must-read for anyone inspired by the likes of Brene Brown and seeking a path out of the toxic traps of perfectionism,

Starting point is 00:03:37 approval seeking, and overdoing. This book is not just a guide, it's a beacon of hope for those of us who have been unduly hard on ourselves, those who hesitate to take risks, and those who feel like imposters despite their remarkable achievements. Homera, with her deep insight and science-based approach, unravels the mystery behind why many suffer from fragile confidence and how this becomes a significant barrier to realizing their fullest potential. Drawn from her personal journey, including her early struggles with an eating disorder and her professional experiences, she illuminates the path to inner freedom, authenticity, and purpose-driven living.

Starting point is 00:04:10 As we explore Homera's journey and insights, we'll understand the concept of the two types of high confidence and how unhooking from the need to engage in self-limiting behaviors can lead to optimal confidence. Join us as we discuss practical, evidence-based tools and strategies to navigate life's challenges and embrace the paradox and messiness of our everyday existence. This episode is more than just a conversation. It's a journey toward embracing the gifts our lives embody and living the life we're meant to live. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

Starting point is 00:04:49 I am so excited today to welcome Himaera Pabir to Passion's Truck. Welcome. Thank you, John. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. I'm honored. Himaera, I like to start these episodes out by giving the audience a chance to get to know you better. And I feel like we all have moments that define who we become and your own journey was profoundly influenced by your personal battle that you detail with your eating disorder early in your life. How did this struggle help you understand the masks that people wear to feel loved or seen? And how can one start to remove those masks like you did? Yeah, thank you, John.

Starting point is 00:05:29 And thank you for bringing that up. I do mention it in my book. Yeah, I'll explain a little bit because I did not understand the connection between the eating disorder and what, how I was trying to live a more meaningful life much later in my life when that dawned on me that there was something missing in my life. So when I was about 13, my father, who was a diplomat, he was posted

Starting point is 00:05:50 to Senegal, which is on the western tip of Africa. When we went to Senegal, I was put in a French school and I did not know a word of French at the time. I was also put two grades above the grade that I should have been in. I guess in those days, it wasn't a big deal. And so I really struggled academically. I'd always been a great student. I've always been done well in my studies, found great pride in that. And it was a real struggle. And I don't think I was making it any easier for myself because being a perfectionist, I would not allow myself to say anything wrong in French. I would fear that everyone would find it like, mock me or make fun of me, although I'm sure nobody

Starting point is 00:06:30 would have in hindsight. But at the time, those fears were very real. And so it was just a very tough journey. I was working really hard. I could not obviously make friends without knowing the language. My grandmother who'd always always lived with us, was not with us. It was just a lonely time for me. I missed my life in Sri Lanka, where my dad was posted before this. A lot of nostalgia. I was a sensitive kid and it was just I just remember it as a very tough time. I wasn't doing well, obviously, in my education, because I did not know the language.

Starting point is 00:07:04 And it was not something that could have happened overnight. I wasn't doing well, obviously, in my education because I did not know the language and it was not something that could have happened overnight. So it was just a tough time and I felt very unseen. I felt I did not, nobody saw me. I would spend my break times just hoping nobody would notice this little 13 year old hanging around somewhere because that was the safest place to be. I sometimes wish I had an iPhone at the time, but there was nothing. I would just hope I was invisible. But then I heard some

Starting point is 00:07:32 of the girls say that they liked my figure, that somehow I had a nice figure. It's never something that I even thought about. As a 13-year-old, it's an innocent time, especially a generation ago, it was a very innocent time. So I thought maybe that is something that will help me feel seen. And before I knew it, I started dieting this, that and the other. And I guess I was genetically prone to an eating disorder. I mean, there's enough research on that too, that some of us just carry the jeans and they get turned on under the right circumstances. And yeah, and that was the start of it. And anyway, it took me a long time to get over it, almost a decade, but I did. It was a big battle. That was a big battle that I overcame in my life.

Starting point is 00:08:19 But even so, the years went on. I never really felt that I had found that happy, free place where I wanted to be, like passion struck, like you say, just living my life in a way that I felt this was my life. I was living it my way. I just, I went on, I went back to school, had a job, got married, had four kids. Everything seemed fine on the outside, but inside I often felt that I couldn't have overcome such a huge battle of my life for this. There had to be something more. And that's when I went back to grad school to study positive psychology.

Starting point is 00:08:56 I knew about this science that studied how do you live a meaningful life. And I wanted to do that. And when I did that, and I went on to do my research on what leads to a woman's flourishing, because I was a coach, I was a psychotherapist, and I somehow felt that a woman's challenges, a woman's needs, a woman's aspirations were somehow different. A lot of the pathways that positive psychology told me that these are the pathways of flourishing somehow did not apply.

Starting point is 00:09:28 I felt there is a sensitivity that many women have being a coach and work with so many women and aspirations that women have that somehow these pathways were not addressing all of them. So I wanted to understand that. And when I studied women's flourishing, somehow the research changed into women's confidence because that turned out to be the key factor that separates whether we go on to flourish or whether we get stuck in these patterns where I found myself and a lot of the women I work with, which was the pleasing, the proving, the pushing, the

Starting point is 00:10:02 perfecting. And so that turned out to be the thing. One was fragile confidence, also a form of high confidence, and one was optimal confidence. And that was the difference between the two fragile confidence is usually dependent on certain key areas of our lives. And during the eating disorder,

Starting point is 00:10:22 it was dependent on appearance. Before that, it was dependent on appearance. Before that, it was dependent on my academic success. After that, it was dependent on me being a mother and on me, the family, and on my work. And these just keep expanding our areas of dependency. Life starts becoming a stranglehold. Today, we're going gonna be discussing your book which came out earlier in the year,

Starting point is 00:10:48 Goodbye Perfect. And I wanted to acknowledge that it was recommended by the Next Big Idea Club as a must read for 2023. So congratulations on that. Thank you so much. How did your personal journey that you just talked about reflect in the themes of the book? Yeah, it did in the sense that, one, I was looking for

Starting point is 00:11:13 that something missing in my life, which I was trying to uncover. And secondly, in the themes of the book, the themes of the book are structured around the pathways to a woman's flourishing that I then uncovered through my research and that I tested in multiple psychological trials and in my work with women and crafted into a framework of the pathways that lead to flourishing. And the book is actually structured around those four key pathways.

Starting point is 00:11:42 Well, and we're going to discuss the different aspects of the book. It's divided into three different parts, which we're going to go through. The first is understanding fragile confidence. And then part two is building a sense of belonging and then three is building a sense of mastery. But before we get further into those, I did want to talk about flourishing a little bit more. I have found, as I have looked at positive

Starting point is 00:12:05 psychology, which you have studied in depth, that positive psychology really does dive into flourishing in a deep way. But I often find and I talk about on the show that I think so many people are living what I describe as a pinball life where we're merely bouncing off the things that we encounter in our life instead of being intentional about how we want to live it. And so what ends up happening is it culminates into what Cornell University recently did research on where they found that over 76% of people that they interviewed as they were nearing the end of their lives said that the biggest regret they had was that they didn't lead a flourishing life. Can you talk about and maybe elaborate on how this realization is impacting people and

Starting point is 00:12:58 why they don't seem to realize earlier on in their lives that something is missing. Yeah, that is such a good question, John. I think the real thing, flourishing at the end of the day, I mean, yes, positive psychology studies the science of flourishing, but people have been talking about flourishing for ages, ages, right? Look at philosophers, look at humanistic psychology,

Starting point is 00:13:23 look at the work of Carl Jung. I mean, authenticity is what leads to flourishing. Flourishing is about living in integrity with who we are. The problem is, in our day and age, we don't know who we are. I mean, there are so many forces on us, so many forces on us that tell us who we should be. And so very early on in our lives, we get disconnected from who we are. We don't have the time, much less the education that tells us to go look for who we are and find that self. I read a wonderful

Starting point is 00:13:59 story somewhere in, I think it was in Indian mythology, and it says that gods hid our true selves deep inside of us somewhere. And then they said, so one of them were having this discussion, where do we hide this real core self of this person? And they said deep inside themselves, because that is the one place they will never look. Because it is so powerful that even the gods were afraid of if this person finds their true power, what will it do in the world? And so our deep core self is powerful. It is the soul's longing. It comes into the world. There is so much potential in it. It is the potential that exists in every living organism in the acorn that becomes an oak tree. I mean, there is a very powerful,

Starting point is 00:14:47 you can call it whatever, you can call it your soul, your true self, whatever it is, potential inside of us that will actualize given the right conditions. Unfortunately, the world that we live in does not provide the right conditions. There are so many messages telling us who we should be, how we should be, and rewarding us for it.

Starting point is 00:15:06 So to live an authentic life is a very courageous thing to do. It takes a lot of courage to be able to do that. It needs the right guidance on how to find it. Secondly, it needs a lot of support in how to live it and courage. And it's difficult. It is a very difficult chosen path. At the end of the day, when all these social messaging becomes not so important to us, that is where we feel the regret. Oh, I wish I had been true to myself. Oh, I wish I had tried to live a life of more flourishing.

Starting point is 00:15:38 That is when we long for fulfillment. I think Mary Oliver, the wonderful writer Mary Oliver put it so beautifully. She said, we have multiple selves and there is the social self and then there's the creative self. And the creative self is our authentic selves. And the social self is the self that is involved in every other thing that goes on around the world. And there's a place for both. Nobody says that we can let the social self aside. We are social creatures, their roles and responsibilities and the rest of that. We are social creatures, the roles and responsibilities

Starting point is 00:16:06 and the rest of that. But I think we get so involved in that and we get so rewarded for that, that we leave this other self behind and we become totally disconnected with her. And then there is a journey where we need to go through to discover it and then to live in integrity with it. Yeah, so you covered a lot there.

Starting point is 00:16:27 So I want to break some of these important points down. I had two great interviews over the past year. One was with Susan Cain, another was with Jennifer Wallace. And both of these revolved around perfectionism and toxic achievement culture, which to me really coincide with each other. But this was deeply personal for me because it's something that I saw in my own children

Starting point is 00:16:51 as they were going through high school and feeling as if they couldn't make mistakes. They couldn't afford to do anything but be perfect if they wanted to get into the schools, etc. that they aspire to get into. And this really had profound impacts on both of them on their mental health. And ultimately when that starts suffering, so does your physical health and your relationship health, etc. And I think especially when you're younger like that, and even as you get into college, sometimes it's difficult to recognize that this pattern is even occurring in yourself and what to do about it. What is some of your advice

Starting point is 00:17:31 for a listener on how they might be able to recognize this in themselves and then once they do maybe what is the thing they need to do next to do something about it? Yes, that is so important, John. And yes, I'm sorry your kids went through it, but it's happening to kids all over. And especially in the US, I think there's so much pressure to get into the right schools, so much competition. I mean, it's becoming global now, the competition, because obviously people from all over the world

Starting point is 00:18:03 and fewer positions and so many people vying for them. I think this needs to begin from much early on in our schooling and in our education, a connection with what we really want with our passions. Who am I beneath all of this? What do I really enjoy? I mean, the first thing we do when we cut back stuff in schools and when there are cutbacks is take out the arts. No music, no art, no nothing. And these are sources of creativity.

Starting point is 00:18:31 They're really important to us. Who am I beneath all of this? Try to understand that, try to encourage that, try to find joy in it, try to find meaning in it and see yourself as that person, there has to be a way in our education, in our homes, of talking to kids of who they are outside their academic achievements. And that too is important. We can't say, okay, this is all of it, and you can forget that, right? But we do very little at helping them see themselves as something other than their achievements.

Starting point is 00:19:06 And so when that's the only thing that defines them and they are not being successful at it or when there's so much competition at it, it makes them feel very little. I mean, that's the only thing that's defining them. So they will put in whatever it takes, the perfection, the toxic competition, all of that, all of this, just to be able to see their worth through it. We have to help them see their worth as other than their achievements. So this comes through their passions, this comes through their relationships, this comes through their own relationship with themselves, learning to like themselves the way they are. And these are as

Starting point is 00:19:42 long as we can, as educators, as parents, just keep reminding them of all of this thing. I think it will just help them find the balance a little bit. Yes, go after all of those achievements that you want, but when you fall, you're not going to hit yourself so hard. There will be buffers for the fall. And these are the buffers that we keep building over time. They may not pay

Starting point is 00:20:05 much attention to them. They may say, oh, dad, you don't get it. It is really hard and I have to work hard, but it is the place where they'll find the comfort when things don't go the way they want them to go. Yeah, Sanay, I like that you keep touching on the fact that so many people today are living inauthentically and that one of the major reasons that stops us from achieving this flourishing life is that we don't become our authentic selves. And I think security, becoming authentic, go hand in hand. And in the book, you introduce the idea of secure striving versus insecure striving. How do you recommend that listeners can create a sense of inner security to pursue the goals

Starting point is 00:20:53 from a place of authenticity rather than from anxiety or social pressure? Yes. So, John, what the research showed was that there are these two types of high confidence. There's fragile high confidence, there's optimal confidence. And the only difference between the two of them is the global implicit feelings that we carry about ourselves. They're implicit, they're not even in our heads, they're subconscious, they're almost visceral, they're automatic, they live in our bodies because they emerge at a time when

Starting point is 00:21:23 a child has not even developed their cognitive capacities. So they are very visceral and they are global. So they impact how we feel about ourselves, how we feel about other people and how we feel about what's possible or not possible in life. When we have positive global beliefs, we go out, like you said, we live this authentic life with a sense of pride and joy and ease. And when we don't have this, we're striving insecurely to prove ourselves in some way. So at the end of the day, and this is how I divided the book, the

Starting point is 00:21:58 belonging part two, belonging is about connecting to ourselves, understanding who we are, learning to like ourselves again, building relationships of trust where there's emotional connection, understanding what brings us joy, what doesn't bring us joy. And then from this place of this is security, stepping out into, okay, what do I enjoy doing? What brings me a feeling of connection, a feeling of authenticity, and then having the courage to go out and do it. So belonging is essentially that feeling of security. And when we don't instill that feeling of security, when we're trying a top down approach, okay, now you need to have the courage. Okay, now you need to do such

Starting point is 00:22:42 and such. That's a top down approach. That is what leads to all the pressure and all the perfection and the rest of it, because it's starting from a place of scarcity. It's starting from a place of lack. It's starting from a place of inadequacy, of unworthiness. Yeah, I found that so many people, despite being aware of the patterns

Starting point is 00:23:02 that are keeping them stuck, and I like to use that stuck word because on passion struck, we're really trying to help people go from being stuck to passion struck. Yeah. But they're stuck and they find it hard to take action. And that stuckness is often due to intense emotions and subsequent feelings of self doubt of guilt. What is your advice for how to bridge this gap between knowledge and action from merely functioning to truly flourishing and from going from unstuck to this, to actually taking action to get us closer to becoming passion struck.

Starting point is 00:23:52 Oh, that is so, so beautiful. We can break it down into two parts, essentially, or even three parts. One is recognizing the patterns that keep you stuck, really recognizing them. So not just saying, okay, I'm stuck. Okay, I'm stuck in perfection, but recognizing what actually happens. I mean, I'm a coach as well. This is what I help people do. Recognize actually what is the pattern that happens in your stuckness. Okay. So John says such and such to me, and then I feel angry. And then I say, how dare you, and then really break it down. And then this is what goes through my mind. And then he says such and such. So really break it down into what actually happens. No emotions, just break it down into facts.

Starting point is 00:24:35 And then bring a kind and loving presence to yourself. So that is where most of us get stuck. Like one, we don't even unpack everything that's happening. And then we judge ourselves for it, or we judge somebody else for it, or we judge the other person for it. But bring a kind, loving presence to yourself. That is one of the things that I help people to build in the book, that kind, loving presence. We don't have it for ourselves. We learn to relate to ourselves the way others related to us, usually in our very early lives.

Starting point is 00:25:07 And so we don't have a way of saying to ourselves, it's okay. Yes, that happened. And that's fine. These are the stories that I had from a time in my past. And I just reacted to those stories. And that is fine. It at least helps you recognize that your patterns of stuckness are based in an old story and that you have the power to change that story and engage in your pathway of growth.

Starting point is 00:25:33 So know that it is okay and that there's a pathway of growth for me here because if I'm stuck in a certain pattern, then I haven't developed how to engage in this conversation or in this process in a more empowered way. So what is my pathway of growth? What are the things that I'm going to learn to do better? Perhaps I need to presence myself when I'm having those emotions of self-doubt or guilt or resentment or whatever happens. Just breathe through it with kindness. Perhaps I'm going to learn how to speak up and say something without spewing it all out in a moment of anger. Because if you've never done that, perhaps I'm going to speak up and ask for what I want, or perhaps I'm going to actually sit back and think of what do I actually need to ask for.

Starting point is 00:26:22 Because when we've been engaging in certain patterns, whether they're perfecting, pleasing, pushing, getting upset, whatever it is, there are certain skills that we have not developed in ourselves because we've been doing all of this. So one, recognize what happens. Two, bring a lot of loving kindness awareness to it and say, it's okay. It's because of a certain old story that I have. And three, what is now my pathway of growth and how am I going to engage in it? What are the things that I'll learn and how will I create a structure in my life that will help me do so? Yeah. And I want to go back to the patterns that you were just talking about because I

Starting point is 00:27:00 was recently doing an interview and the guest was talking about biggest life skills that were not taught and things that inhibit us from being our most productive in relationships and in our careers was the topic. And I thought he was going to go to emotional intelligence, but he told me that based on his research, the number one thing is that we're not self-awareness skills. And I started to think about it. And when you aren't self-aware, it becomes very difficult to recognize the toxic patterns that you're just talking about in our lives. If you're a person who is possibly creating toxicity around you, how do you lean in and find out if you are that generator? Because it's oftentimes, if not all the time,

Starting point is 00:27:51 gonna be holding you back from the dreams that you aspire to achieve. So if you are the person who is generating the toxic environment. You don't really realize that you're the one who's doing it. What are some signs that you might be able to look out for? Yeah. I mean, if you're the one who is actually the person who is doing it, I think ask people

Starting point is 00:28:18 and be open to their feedback. And I think that is one place where it is hardest, even I can say that even as a coach, that people who are the ones who are generating it, often are the ones who are the blindest to it and also not willing to be able to admit it or to look at it. There are the reasons we get trapped in certain patterns is because again, like I said, of these old stories that we develop in very early on in our lives and the kind of relationships that we have often with our caregivers, but they happen all through our lives with other people as well.

Starting point is 00:28:54 And there are different categories that these fall in. And people who usually generate toxicity are the people who've had a certain, generally, a certain form of attachment style called avoidant attachment. And these are people who also carry a certain feeling of superiority. That is the only way they can make sense of why they had the kind of relationship that they did. All of this is very subconscious. Even they do not recognize it, but it is very hard for them to be able to see through it. It is almost superimposed on their feelings of inferiority. Like it's two sides of the same coin.

Starting point is 00:29:34 And even as a coach, you can struggle to help them see it. It's often when they have multiple feedback from multiple sources saying the same thing, and perhaps even stronger than that is when they're actually having failure after failure as a result of that, whether it is failure in relationships, failure in the workplace, as a result of that,

Starting point is 00:29:56 that they'd be more motivated to take action on it. Yeah, it's interesting. I was a senior executive in a Fortune 50, and we had a very high performing team. Every one of my peers was excellent in what they did. And it wasn't one of these situations where if I handed something off to Tom or Jay or Ron or Aaron or whoever it might be, that I didn't think that they were going to do it. But ultimately our boss didn't think that we were performing as

Starting point is 00:30:26 well as a team as we could have. And he kept bringing up that the biggest issue that we had and why we weren't able to achieve even more was ego. And it's interesting because when you're in that situation, and I'll relate this to what you were just talking about. When you hear that, it's so easy to look at the other people in the room and say, oh, Tom is doing this or Karen is doing that. But it's so hard to look in the own mirror and understanding what your role is in it.

Starting point is 00:30:57 And I think the same could be said, like you were bringing up in any relationship where we're at. And I think a lot of this, as you've touched on, really goes back to our early relationships, which are particularly influenced by our primary caregivers. How do you recommend adults who may not have had ideal early relationships can work towards creating the conditions where they can form them later on.

Starting point is 00:31:27 John, what I often tell people to do is just take a little walk down memory lane and just try to unpack what your early years were like. Just because, I mean, not to blame anybody. I mean, anyway, I mean, we are parents. You are a parent, I'm a parent. Perfect, secure attachment, perfect parenting is a very tall order. We'll never get it right. I mean, we are human beings as parents as well. And our kids grow up in this world

Starting point is 00:31:57 where there are so many influences on them, especially in this day and age. So just go back and go back as far as you can remember. Most of these stories that we carry are at a time even before we can remember. I mean, they were formed when we were between one and three years old. So, but even so, what you remember of yourself at five or at eight would be similar to how your parents raised you when you were one or three. And so just go back and just take so that you get an idea of the type of attachment style that you may have formed. And then read

Starting point is 00:32:33 up on the different reactions that each of those attachment styles usually leads to. In my book, I talk about it and just see which ones do you relate with. And you realize that in certain situations, you're relating to one of them. Other situations you're relating to others. The mind is very complex. You never know what it picks up from the past and the kind of story that comes up and the reaction that follows. Just so you build that awareness and you can create a little bit of distance from your reactions and say, ah, so this is the pattern that's playing out here and this is what it's leading to.

Starting point is 00:33:09 And so how can I grow here? It all begins with a desire to grow and to be a better version of ourselves, right? If you don't even have that desire, and I'm sure your listeners here and the readers of your book are people who are passionate about living a full life and saying, hey, this beautiful life that I've been given, how do I make the most of it?

Starting point is 00:33:29 How do I wake up every morning feeling passion struck and making the most of this life? So it begins from there and then to say, okay, let me see what are the different patterns that are playing out here, just so you create that distance and say, okay, now what am I going to do about it? patterns that are playing out here, just so you create that distance and say, okay, now what am I going to do about it? Okay. And I want to move to part three of your book, Building a Sense of

Starting point is 00:33:50 Mastery. And you mentioned that every living organism is wired to flourish. And as I was reading this section, it reminded me of an interview I was doing with Andreas Widmer, who earlier in his life, he was a Swiss guard actually guarding Pope John Paul II. And he told me the story that Pope John Paul II was one of the greatest mentors he ever had in his life. And he said, you think about everything that the Pope has going on, all the people he has to meet with, all the world events and caring for

Starting point is 00:34:27 this global congregation. Yet, he said he had this skill set where he would just be with you and you felt like you were the only person in the world when he was around you. And he said one of the most important things that he taught me was he would often say, Andreas, God put you here for a very specific mission. It's a mission that you alone were meant to live out. And it's the only mission that you are capable of truly doing to feel like you're flourishing. And he said it's your pursuit throughout life to find that and then to activate it. And oftentimes, one of the biggest things I think we struggle with is what is that problem

Starting point is 00:35:16 that we were put on earth to uniquely solve? What is that thing that we as living organisms is that thing that we as living organisms are wired to do. How do you suggest that people go about understanding that and finding that unique problem that they're called upon to solve? John, in the book, I write multiple ways that you can do it. I think I've mentioned nine or 12 ways, but at the end of the day, it's about just spending time in solitude and in silence

Starting point is 00:35:48 and just thinking about what are the things that bring me joy? What are the things where when I'm doing this, I feel truly authentic. I feel that was a meaningful moment for me or where I feel I really helped somebody or where I felt truly myself or where I found a lot of just happiness doing it. There are so many things that need to come through in the world. There's beauty that's essential in the world. There's creativity that's essential in the world. There's healing, there's relationships.

Starting point is 00:36:19 I mean, there are so many things that the world needs to be able to flourish. And we are each agents doing our part in making that happen. The world itself is going through a consciousness. The world itself is growing in consciousness and each one of us has been given a little part. You have been given one out of eight billionth of a part. I have been given one of eight billionth of a part. I have been given one of eight billionth of a part.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And I think it's also important to put that into perspective because often the ego gets in the way. We think our purpose has to be this world shattering event where we come in as Superman and Superwoman and change the world in some way. Purpose is not that. Purpose is just we leave the world a little bit better than we found it. What did we do toward the growth of the world?

Starting point is 00:37:11 And so maybe for somebody, their purpose is just they brought more beauty into the world in some way. Maybe the purpose of some person is they brought more healing. They were there for people when they were in times of trouble. You sat with your aunt and through her grieving, you were with her when she was grieving and you sat with them and made them go through that period with the best that they could. And purpose changes over life and purpose is never that huge a thing. We have to find ways that make us feel truly joyful, truly authentic. And that only happens when you sit down in silence, when you think through things, when you think of your past and you think what did you really want to do when you were little? I remember for me, when my

Starting point is 00:37:55 dad was posted in Sri Lanka, I remember we used to walk down the streets and every time I would walk down the streets, I was just mesmerized by windows of houses. In Sri Lanka, it's a very green place. It's an island, very green, very beautiful. And all the streets are like boulevards with trees over them. And through the trees, you can see houses, beautiful houses with tiled roofs. And I would just love looking at the windows because I always felt that there was a life inside, a beautiful life through the windows, that the windows because I always felt that there was a life inside, a beautiful life through the windows, that the windows depicted a beautiful life inside. And now I find that for me, my purpose is helping people look through the windows into their own souls and find that beautiful life inside. I mean, that for me feels like my purpose,

Starting point is 00:38:43 but it's not like I just woke up one day and said, this is my purpose. It's just like I felt what were the moments in my life that made me feel that were different, that were unique in some way, that stood out for me. And so this is what people need to do. They need to spend time in silence, spend time in solitude, consider that the most important work of their lives and try to find what are the recurring patterns in their life that are meaningful to them. And how does that apply to the current needs

Starting point is 00:39:15 in the world right now? Because purpose is always two-sided. It is your joy combined with the needs of the world. How will I bring that forward? Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to what you just said. And I think another thing that you and I both went through, if I understand it correctly, is I think this happens over a gradual period of time. I remember hearing this inner voice years before I took action upon it, where I was at a place where I thought

Starting point is 00:39:47 I was exactly where I was supposed to be. Yet, if I had done more soul searching at that time, I would have found out that I wasn't living authentically. I was living by what society had guided me to become. And yet this inner voice kept telling me that this isn't your calling. You're supposed to be helping people do X, Y, and Z. And yet I think what so many of us face is when things in our life seems to be going well, when we have all the material things we want, we have the success, we've made a name for ourselves, it's so difficult when you hear this inner voice calling you to do something different, to actually lean into it

Starting point is 00:40:32 and to silence yourself and to really explore it. So easy to silence that voice because it just speaks in such small whispers, like you hear it in the middle of the night or something, and then you wake up in the day and you're busy and then it's silent and it's gone and somebody says something great about how well you did and you're like, yes, awesome. I am on the right track, actually. Yeah. And for me, the whispers didn't make sense because it was doing something completely different than what I was doing at that point.

Starting point is 00:41:03 something completely different than what I was doing at that point. And it really took for me a couple of life events that opened my eyes to, is this really the legacy that I want to leave someday? Is this how I want my family and friends to remember me? And that really led me to embark on, I would say a three to four year journey of really doing the most soul searching I had ever done in my life. And I came out of that realizing that I needed to help people feel like they matter. Like significance was lacking for so many and yet we are put on earth to matter. We are put on earth to have a sense of mastery in achieving as you say, what we were put on earth to matter. We are put on earth to have a sense of mastery

Starting point is 00:41:45 in achieving as you say, what we were put on earth to do. John, you're an illuminator. I have a word for you. You're an illuminator. You help you shine the light on other people so they can see that they matter. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah, well, I think it's leading so many people

Starting point is 00:42:05 right now to these epidemics that people are facing globally. Whether you call it loneliness or helplessness or hopelessness, I think it all stems from a lack of feeling as if we wake up and anything we do matters in the bigger world that we're living in. And we don't understand how the simple gestures or simple impacts we make a difference in other people's lives. And I remember I was interviewing Jen Bauer, who you may not know, but Jen was born without legs has become this beacon of hope by leading this life of nothing can hold me down. No matter what my limitations are, I can always achieve more. And her mom told her that people get the equation incorrect. They think that they have to do things that influence so many people.

Starting point is 00:42:51 And all you have to do is influence one person and a ripple effect can change. And I think we overcomplicate the impact that we can make. What's your thought on that? No, exactly. And this is what I was saying a little while earlier when I was saying the ego gets in the way you start out with thinking I have to influence a thousand or 10,000 people. No, it's just the one person. What is your true gift? What is it that was given to you that you need to give back and you just need to give back to one person.

Starting point is 00:43:22 And if you give back authentically your true thing to that one person, like you said, it will create the ripple effects because if it changes one life, it will then by that very token change another life and carry forward from there. So at the end of the day, just find your thing. Do not even think of what am I going to do with it right now? Find your thing and then think of what am I going to do with it right now. Find your thing and then think of what am I going to do with it and who is the person that I'm going to impact through it. And yes, begin with one person. Yes. I mean, for me as well, I mean, when I started my coaching business, I wanted to run these programs and I would think a hundred people have to sign up for

Starting point is 00:44:01 the program. And it used to be very demotivating for me that only 10 people would sign up for it. And I would say 10, I mean, should I really go ahead with the program? Only 10 people signed up. But then actually somebody said this to me. They said, you have the power right now to change 10 lives.

Starting point is 00:44:19 Can you imagine what that means? And when that really sunk in for me, it changed everything. I mean, yes, now I have the hundreds of people, but it just began with this deep desire that there are these 10 women sitting in front of me. It could have been just one person, but right now I have the power to change this person's life. And that is beautiful. And like you said, we have this power every single day.

Starting point is 00:44:47 I mean, when you see your child, you say, Hey honey, how did you sleep? And how was your night? And what are you looking forward to today? Or are you going to say you didn't make your bed? Have you go back and make your bed? I mean, we have the power every single moment in what we're going to do. There is something in psychology that's called pricing. What a secure parent gives their child is not only the presence and the love and the rest of it and the willingness to give them what they need, but also something that's called pricing. And that is actually making them feel good. Prize them. Wow, honey. Those, even if your child has scribbled on a piece of paper, that's the

Starting point is 00:45:27 most beautiful painting I've ever seen. What were you doing? What I, what I can see trees there, is that trees that you were doing? I mean, can you imagine how a child would light up for that when they hear that? It would change everything. It would help them feel that I'm great. Actually, I took that crayon and I've created this beautiful painting. And we don't get a lot of pricing in our lives, not from even, forget our early experiences, we don't even get a lot of pricing in the real world

Starting point is 00:45:55 for things that come from our hearts. We can get a lot of pricing and rewards for achievements, because it's obviously helping our organizations or the rest of it, but pricing for things that come from our hearts, we need to help our kids and ourselves feel more priced for that. I love that answer. And I was going to ask you this question and I think you just answered it. I was going to ask you, how do you see the interconnection between individual flourishing and collective wellbeing and what role does each person play in contributing to the betterment of the world. But I think you just nailed it. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:46:32 If there was one thing that you would want listeners to take away or a reader taking away from the book, what would that core message be? Core message be, I mean, it's two sides of the same coin. Embrace yourself and embrace life. And it begins, it's the same. I mean, be less critical of yourself. Give yourself some grace. We're all imperfect human beings trying to live

Starting point is 00:46:57 in this imperfect world. So give yourself some grace, find your place to stand, and then just go out there and make the difference. Do the work. It's exciting. It's a purposeful life was never supposed to be difficult. It was never supposed to be tiresome. It's supposed to be joyful. It feeds our spiritual energy, our soulful energy. There are many sources of energy. Soulful energy is one of them. In fact, it is the most powerful one.

Starting point is 00:47:26 So give yourself some grace, find your place to stand and then give yourself wholeheartedly to it. And you'll just live the most passion struck life in the world. Well, I love that. And Homera, if a person wanted to learn more about you or connect with you for coaching or other things, what are the best ways for them to do that?

Starting point is 00:47:48 My website, homerakabir.com. And yeah, it has my book, it has my coaching programs, and I'm also starting this new venture right now with my business that I'm really excited about. It is, again, a woman's pathway to flourishing. I call it emergence. It's emerge the whole thing, because it's the same idea that to be able to rise to wherever we want to go, we need to first go in. We need to go in and come out of there. So it's more like an emergence. You go in and you come out. So the way up is the way in and out. Yeah, really a bottoms up approach like you talk about in the book as opposed to a top down one. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it was such an honor to have you on the show. Congratulations again on this incredible book

Starting point is 00:48:40 and everything that you're doing. And thank you for being here. Thank you, John. And thank you for everything that you do. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Homera Kabir. And I wanted to thank Homera and Simple Truths for the honor of appearing on today's show. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. All proceeds go to supporting the show. Videos are on YouTube at both our main channel at John R. Miles and our clips channel at Passion Strike Clips. Please subscribe and join over a quarter million other subscribers to both our channels. Advertiser deals and discount codes are in one community place at passion

Starting point is 00:49:11 struck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. If you want a daily dose of inspiration from me and follow me on all my social platforms at John R. Miles. And if you want to exercise your courage muscle, then consider joining our weekly challenge by signing up for our newsletter, Live Intentionally at passionstruck.com. Are you curious to find out where you stand on the path to becoming passionstruck? Dive into our engaging passionstruck quiz crafted to reflect the core principles from my latest book. This quiz offers you a dynamic way to gauge your progress on the passionstruck continuum. Head over to passionstruck.com right now.

Starting point is 00:49:45 It'll take you about 10 minutes to complete. Take the quiz today. You're about to hear a preview of the PassionStruck podcast interview that I did with Jesse Bradley, author of the book, The Power of the Second Thought, and the founder of Hope Habits, who joins us to share how each challenge

Starting point is 00:49:59 that he has conquered has strengthened his resolve and deepened his mission to spread hope globally. You can compartmentalize your physical, your emotional, your intellectual, your relational, your spiritual. They're all linked together. And I think it's important to keep growing in all those areas, be a lifelong learner, but look past yourself. We're in a world right now that's getting more self-consumed and the joy in life is not getting more wrapped up in yourself. It's actually looking beyond yourself. Yes, we need self-care.

Starting point is 00:50:29 Yes, take care of yourself. Yes, have good boundaries, get some exercise, get sleep, all those good things. But you really come alive and you learn that serving is life. And when you can help somebody, that's when life is as good as it can be. So wherever you show up, don't show up just to be served, but to serve and to make a difference. Remember that we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those that you love and care about.

Starting point is 00:50:54 And if you found today's episode with Homero Kabir inspirational, then definitely share this with family or friends who could use your inspiring words. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. Until next time, go out there and become passion struck.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Homaira Kabir on How You Overcome the Tyranny of Perfection EP 455

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