Passion Struck with John R. Miles - James H. Belt on Creating ”All-in Hope” That Can End Poverty EP 231

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

In this powerful Passion Struck episode, author, speaker, and missionary, James H. Belt and I discuss his book Hope Realized: How the Power of Practical and Spiritual Development Can Diminish Poverty and Expose the Lie of Hopelessness which challenges the prevailing wisdom on poverty and offers listeners a new perspective on the global poverty crisis and how each of us can have a role to play. --►Purchase Hope Realized: https://amzn.to/3YE1FOh  (Amazon Link) What I Discuss with James H. Belt About His New Book Hope Realized and Ending Poverty. James challenges the idea that poverty is natural or inevitable and offers a radical new perspective that points to the commonalities among all people, no matter their circumstances. Hope Realized challenges how we think about poverty and touches on race, gender, and economic inequality. Hear Belt's powerful message and learn how you can help end poverty in your community. Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://passionstruck.com/james-h-belt-on-creating-all-in-hope/  Brought to you by American Giant. --► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to: https://passionstruck.com/deals/  --► Prefer to watch this interview: https://youtu.be/mEn78OosjG4  Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally! --► Subscribe to Our YouTube Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles Want to find your purpose in life? I provide my six simple steps to achieving it - passionstruck.com/5-simple-steps-to-find-your-passion-in-life/ Did you miss my interview with Wharton Professor and New York Times bestselling author Jonah Berger? Listen to episode 227 on how the great catalysts remove the barriers to change. ===== FOLLOW ON THE SOCIALS ===== * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnrmiles.c0m  Learn more about John: https://johnrmiles.com/ 

Coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. I think if we can get to the point where we're actually looking at people as hopeful and then bringing what we have to the table to make a real difference, I think that we can see some real change, but it's going to require a long-term investment and it requires both pieces, both the practical hope and then that reframed identity. And if we focus on both of those things, instead of just one or the other, I believe real change can happen when we've seen it.

Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armeyles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.

If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 231 of PassionStruck. Recently ranked by Interview Valet is one of the top 20 best podcasts for business and mindset.

And thank you to each and every one of you who come back weekly, listen and learn, how to live better, be better, and impact the world. And if you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here, or you would just like to introduce this to a friend or family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that.

We now have episode starter packs, which are collections of our fans' favorite episodes that we organize in convenient topics that give any new listener a great way to get acquainted to everything we do here on the show. Just go to passionstruck.com, slash starter packs, or Spotify to get started. In case you missed it, earlier in the week, we head on Family Therapists, John Kim, and

Vanessa Bennett. And we discuss how to own your own relationship, to help untangle the common and frustrating barriers. Many individuals face on the road to a happy relationship. I also wanted to say thank you so much for your continued support of the show, all your ratings and reviews, which go so far and helping us improve the popularity of the show, all your ratings and reviews which go so far and helping us improve the popularity of the podcast. But more importantly, we're reaching those globally who need inspiration, hope, and action and meaning. I know both we and our guests also love to see

these reviews and hear your comments about the shows. Now let's talk about today's episode. I've talked a lot about the epidemics of loneliness and hopelessness. Today's episode will tackle the growing poverty that is not just in third-world countries, but also in cities across the United States, Canada, and Europe. We will discuss why poverty isn't just a lack of resources, education, or wealth. It's centered in chronic hopelessness that is holding people captive and preventing them from escaping their situations. But it doesn't have to be this way, and a world free of poverty is possible when we truly understand the power of hope and what it can do. Our guest today, James Bell, will cover that backdrop, but with a focus on how to create all in hope that can forever alter lives and end poverty. James H. Belt III is the second generation,

owner and president of Belt Enterprises. A church leader in missionary, he traveled to Nicaragua in 2007, where he witnessed firsthand the reality of poverty. His experience and commitment to helping others thrive inspires his hope-filled world-changing approach to fighting poverty, which is one of the world's biggest problems. He is the author of the brand new book, Hope Realized.

Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your hosting guide on your journey for creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I am so excited to welcome James Bell to the Passion Struck Podcast. Welcome, James. Thanks, John. I'm so excited to be here. Well, I wanted to congratulate you on your brand new book.

It's right over your left hand shoulder for those who are viewing this. We'll make sure we put a bigger plug for it on YouTube, but I know how much effort goes into this and for you, I heard this was a five plus year project coming different. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, when I moved back to Nicaragua in 2015, I started writing. And it just became a small project at first that turned into I guess I'll write a book. And yeah, it was almost seven years from the time I started writing it down to the time it was published. So quite a journey. Yes, well, I just had an interview I published today with the guy named Jeremy Utley and he was talking about the fact that when you're reading these books, you

don't realize the amount of time and amounts to in someone's life and how big a sacrifice it is to actually create them. Yeah, I had no idea. I've always been a big reader, but I would have had no idea that time and then just the thought process, well, anyone actually care what I have to say, you know, as you're writing down, you go through that process of how can I write this in a way that's true, but also is engaging for the reader. So yeah, it's been a journey, for sure. So I understand that you grew up and live in the same area. And it's actually not too far from where I grew up. I grew up in York, Pennsylvania. Oh, no way. So just up 83 a bit from you. Yeah, yeah. It's the time there. Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing and what led

you to where you are today? Sure. I'd love to. Yeah, so grew up just outside of Baltimore. I live in Westminster, Maryland now, but grew up about 20 miles from here and grew up in a normal middle class family. My dad started a business when I was pretty young. So I grew up in a family business setting. My parents kind of struggling at first to get the business started and getting to watch it grow,

which was definitely a huge part of my journey and a blessing for me to be a part of that to see kind of it start from basically ground zero to what it is today. I've now taken over that business, which is a neat part of the story as well. It just kind of following my dad around that work a lot and learning business skills and leadership skills from him. As I continued through that, we eventually got engaged with the church and started serving different kinds and things of that sort and so eventually had the opportunity to travel to Nicaragua on a mission trip, which is how we ended up there. But yeah, I kind of grew up just not necessarily wanting to be anyone that lived outside of the country. I graduated from college with a degree in finance, went into financial planning.

That was my plan. Never had any desire really to be a missionary to serve outside of the United States. So yeah, it's interesting journey for me from that standpoint. Yes. Well, and why did your church end up picking Nicaragua of all places to to look to help people and to mission there? Yeah, great question. So our pastor, our church was about four years old and our pastor had a

contact with someone that was running, he was the executive director for an organization called Orphan Network and they work with orphanages in Nicaragua. And so at about four years old, my church decided we should probably do something. To that point as a church where you think, well, we should probably give back in some way. And so they decided to travel down. I actually didn't go on that first mission trip to Nicaragua. My family did, though, my parents and my sister, Jenny, went down, and that's basically how it started. We just decided, well, we need something to do. So two madams, the guy actually ended up working with him at Nikoworks. So they called him up and we said, hey, Tim, can we come down to Nikooragua

with you? And he said, sure. So we got connected to a particular orphanage there. And that was basically it. It wasn't necessarily that we had a passion for the country at the time, although that certainly changed just as something that happened. Yeah, interestingly enough, my parents now have lived in Tennessee for 30 plus years. And they got connected to their church who supported an orphanage and Haiti. Oh, wow, that they've been doing now the entire time they've been there. But it actually led to my brother adopting two kids from Haiti and not only doing that, but he was a missionary five years in the Dominican Republic, but primarily

helping Haitian immigrants who would come over to the DR. But I think whether it's the DR Costa Rica, possibly Nicaragua, I'm not as familiar with it, but you see all these tourist areas where people are. And my son did two missions through his school to Costa Rica. And he was telling me, you see all these beautiful beachfront areas and these great hotels. And literally a mile away, it's just extreme poverty. And people are living in huts with just dirt floors, no lighting, no nothing. So it's pretty amazing to me that change in perspective that we have and how most people don't get to see the true life that most of these

people are living. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. And it is the same way in Icaragua. Icaragua is the second porous nation in the western hemisphere to Haiti. And so you can go to a beach area and it will look similar to what you might expect going to a tropical country and then you could go 500 feet away, even, and see what is a plastic wrapped house or something of that. So we're a shack that someone built and they're just struggling to basically get by sometimes refer to it as it's almost like going to a Hollywood studio and you're traveling to these places and you look around you're like, Oh, look, it looks beautiful. And it is beautiful. I mean, the country itself is beautiful, but there's a lot that we don't see.

It's a facade in a sense. Yes. Well, I realized on one of these trips that you were on to Nicaragua, this phrase came up, where are you going? Why did that phrase have such a profound impact on you and what you're doing today? Yeah, so in 2011, I was on a trip with my church, Crossroads Church, and we were back at the orphanage that we were traveling to, pointed out on the stud, and I'd actually extended my trip. So I started to fall in love with the country, interestingly enough, my parents have actually adopted, we adopted a 15-year-old girl,

she's now almost 30, my sister Emily, and so my mom had spent some extra time in Ikaragua, so I had had that opportunity. And so now I had started to extend my trips beyond the normal mission trip. And so I was on one of these extended trips in 2011 and went on a walk, a hike through the canyon so that the area that the orphanage exists in is called El Canyon, which means the canyon in English.

And we had hiked up one of the hills to look down on the canyon. It was something that I commonly did with the teenage voice from the orphanage, and we were standing up on the hill. And while we were just hanging out, looking around, I heard it wasn't an audible voice. That would have probably scared me quite a bit, but an audible voice in my head saying, where are you going? And my first thought was, well, I'm going back to the United States to my relatively comfortable normal life.

But as I started to dissect that phrase was, and maybe what it meant, because it wasn't something I was thinking about. I mentioned earlier that I would almost call myself a reluctant missionary. I'd never had plans to move to Nicaragua. I'd never had dreams of being a missionary in fact. And so the idea of where are you going really didn't make a lot of sense to me. And as I started to process that, I started to

think about, well, what have I told other people? And over the couple of years prior to that, I had been telling friends that real life is found in following a calling in your life, that concept, that idea that following that calling, would I perceive this God's call in my life, would really lead to real life was a challenge to me. Because now I'm like, well, I guess I have to put my money where my mouth is. I'm actually going to believe this. And so that phrase, where are you going forced me to ask the question, well, what does this mean? What should I do with this?

And I asked that question and I said, well, I guess I'm supposed to live in Icaragua. And it was a journey. And I wouldn't say I went kicking and screaming, but almost kicking and screaming to some degree, but figured out, well, this is what I'm supposed to do for the next three years of my life. And it was quite an interesting moment, not something I expected by any means.

In fact, I built, or I said, built, bought a house about three years prior. So who wasn't in the plans? Oh, you bought a house in the United States? Yes, I'd bought a house about three years prior. So who wasn't in the plans? Oh, you bought a house in the United States. Yes, I'd bought a house in the United States. I was setting up my life. I wasn't married and have kids at the time, but certainly wasn't prepping to live in another country.

And once you move there, were some of the things that hit you about life there, not as a temporary resident, but as a full-time resident. Yeah, so you know, I had traveled there, probably gosh, maybe eight or nine times by that point, but never really experienced it in the way that I would when I lived there.

And one thing I figured out very quickly was, even to that point, I thought my Spanish skills were much better than they actually were that I needed to learn Spanish quite a bit more than I needed to figure out how to communicate. And I grew up, you said you were born in York, Pennsylvania, so you would appreciate this. I grew up in the northeast part of the United States and I've always kind of felt like a plan is a plan and I kind of want to follow the plan. Most things happen on time when they're scheduled and Nicaragua is a very relational culture. And so I had to learn that not everything happened as I would expect.

The time for the meeting might be three o'clock, it could start at 315 or 330 and that wasn't abnormal. And it wasn't offensive. It was just that was the way culture in Nicaragua worked. And so that was an adjustment for me. And just having to learn how to live in a place where it was quite different. People drive different, people communicate differently. People stand much closer than they do in Maryland. So I did just to, to my personal space,

being invaded at least from my perspective. And so definitely challenged a lot. And I actually went down there with a very intentional point of not having an exact plan for what I was going to do. I didn't want to go down and say, well, this is what James thinks should happen. This is why guy from Maryland is saying, hey, this is what should happen. I want to go down and say, I need to learn. And that was hard to be honest with you. It wasn't easy to not kind of have a set idea as to what my first few months, especially, would look like a nicker, I went. Yeah, I think my brother went through the same

thing when he moved to the DRs. They had some Spanish skills, but it was very rudimentary. Yeah. And yet he was the principal for a school. Wow. Trying to teach these Haitian refugees who had come over. So he had to learn very quickly as well. Well, in chapter two, you discuss an experience that you had that you learned through coffee farming. Can you explain why coffee farming turned out to be a whole chapter in your book. Sure. Yeah. It actually goes right to the statement I made just prior to this. So while my mom was living in Icaragua, on and off, it wasn't for living there, but they were adopting my sister Emily. She had to spend extended time there. And so I had my first opportunity to go beyond the orphanage in Elcanean. So I went down and visited my mom, and I developed some

friendships. And one of my friends said, well, hey, I'll drive you out to this remote area, this area called Boaco, which is kind of in the central, north central area region of Nicaragua. And you can meet some people that are farming coffee, as well as some artisans that are doing some work out there. So we drove out, and it's probably three hours from Managua, and we get out to this area called Cueblo de las Montañas

and it literally means town in the mountains. Very, very literal name for the town. And so we pull up and it's just an andobi house if you can imagine, really one room made into two rooms with a sheet and that's where we stayed the night. So that was a certainly an experience for me. One thing I tell people I mentioned in the book is that when I woke up in the morning, I was laying on a cot and literally there was a chicken head bobbing by me. Which I certainly wasn't in Kansas, to Maryland anymore. And so that day though, we got to go out to this coffee farm. And just, like you probably have seen on commercials, I think of maybe folders or something of that sort of beautiful coffee farms with coffee trees and the mountains that look just like that. It was quite a neat experience for me.

But after touring the coffee farms, we had the chance to talk to some of the coffee farmers that were part of this cooperative. us that they were able to grow just whatever they would need basically for their family as far as coffee is concerned. They'd be able to grow it and sell it. The problem was they were only able to sell about 50% of what they were able to grow and they really needed to find a block buyer. And you know, I was in my mid 20s. I didn't really know what I was doing. So I've heard myself say, I can help you. I was thinking, how hard can it be to connect coffee farmers in Nicaragua with Starbucks. So proceeded to accidentally promise, which I figured out later was an accidental promise, that I would figure out how to connect them with Starbucks or something of that sort. And came back to the United States and of course emailed Starbucks and they said, well, here's the process. And it was about 20

steps included sending beans in the specialized way to Switzerland. And that they had to evaluate it. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not sure I'm equipped for all of this. And I had to go back and basically tell them that I wasn't going to be able to help them, which was very disappointing for me, but even more so for them.

Because like I said, culturally for them, when I said I would do it, that was basically a promise. And so that forced me to really take a step back and say, well, what really is causing the poverty here and what can I really do to make a difference? Maybe I don't quite understand everything. It was one of those first moments where I said, I need to probably be willing to listen a little bit more before I speak. And so yeah, that played a huge role in my,

the way I went when I moved there eventually. Did the farmers ever find a bulk buyer? I have to be honest, I don't know. It's a great question. I should try to find out. That would be a great thing to explore. I know there are coffee farmers that are connected to Starbucks and Nicaragua now,

but I do not know if they are. Yeah, I would assume that being down there, they'd have to use more sustainable or organic means to grow their coffee. Yeah, they do quite a bit. Yeah, and they've had some real issues there with plagues and things of that sort recently. But it seems like they're still doing okay.

I love Nicaraguan coffee. So. Well, on this podcast, I've often covered the topic of the power of perception. And many of the ways I've talked about it has been through interviewing astronauts who, when they go through this thing called the overview effect of looking down on Earth, it changes their perspective and how tiny they are as it relates to the whole world. But I don't think you need to go to outer space to see a change of perspective. For me, I've seen it as I've traveled to India.

I've seen it as I've traveled to Morocco, Malaysia, other places around the world, where you don't realize how good you actually have it until you see some of these other places. And this is something that you talk a lot about in chapter three. And I was hoping maybe through this journey of experiencing Christmas with a family in Nicaragua, how that changed your perspective. Yeah. changed your perspective. Yeah, so basically as I've interacted with people in Nicaragua and even more locally in areas in Baltimore city, for example, it's really open my eyes to the fact, as you said that I have a lot more than I often realize. Not only that, but the people that I often think of as maybe different than I am, or they're grown up in a different situation, which is true, but maybe they're innately different. That's not really true. That beneath the surface,

we're all much more similar. And as I experienced life in a caragua, and as I said, even serving in Baltimore City, in some cases, I had the opportunity to look around at celebrations, such as Christmas, in C. Wow. This reminds me a lot of what I did when I grew up. The people are different, their stories are different, but the joy that they get from moments like this, the desire for hope and for relational connection and things of that sort, it's all the same.

That we're not really all that different. We might have different opportunities, like I said, we might have grown up in different places with different stories, but in the end, there's a lot more that's the same about us than different. So it's definitely open my eyes to that. And maybe ask the question, well, why are people in poverty? Why are people stuck in poverty? If they're more similar to me than different, what is it that's allowed me to not be in that situation while they seem to be stuck in it in some cases? Yeah, well, that's something I wanted to dive into because one of the major reasons I started this podcast is I believe we have three global epidemics happening outside of COVID, and that is the epidemics of loneliness,

helplessness, and hopelessness. And so what I'm trying to bring through this podcast is hope, meaning, and connection for people. If you start looking at the statistics, let's just look at loneliness. ARP did a survey of all adults that found 45% feel lonely. A 20-year study that was done across 133 countries found that over 33% of all people feel lonely. So my point in bringing this up is whether it's loneliness or hopelessness,

it's not a left-win or right-win problem, it's not a older generation or younger generation or rich or poor, it's an issue that is profoundly impacting all humans globally. Yeah. And through the lens of poverty, why did you link it to hopelessness? And what did you find or some of the common overlays there between the two?

Yeah, that's a great question. But there was a study that the Census Bureau did at the beginning of the pandemic and found that 45% of Americans were feeling hopeless at that moment. So I think it is definitely a huge issue in regards to poverty. As I started to look around and ask myself the questions, well, why are people that seem just as intelligent as I am, just as capable as I am? What is it that really is causing the problem? And we all look around and we say, well, why is there still poverty?

So much resources, time, whatever you might say, it's committed to making a change in areas where poverty, so prevalent and yet nothing seems to change. And as I started to ask myself the question, but as I had the chance to experience life in a caragua, people that maybe, you know, we look at a commercial and they say, well, poverty looks like that. It's a Catholic Charity's commercial. The people that, you know, I was looking at on the TV now are people that I knew, a swear, and Rio Zay. And so I really had to ask myself that question. And as I did what I started to discover was that the byproducts of poverty, homelessness,

lack of education, hunger, were really a byproduct of something much deeper. I found that to be was the sense of hopelessness, the idea that there's no real opportunity in that community or for that person. At a lack of practical hope, they don't have a clear direction for where they can head to move beyond what their current situation is. Their identity is found in that same spot, the lack of spiritual hope, or the lack of a clear identity that they believe they're destined for a life of less than. And when that's then reinforced by again, the lack of practical hope, the lack of real opportunity creates a cycle. And it

tends to lead to a lot of things like scarcity mindset and just the decision that my life can't ever change. I experienced that a lot in Nicaragua, and I still do actually quite a bit in that community of El Cano and we're all driving and I'll see people that I'm thinking gosh, they could be doing with their life, but they're just sitting there and they've decided that life is going to be this way. And we can certainly do that, whether we're in poverty or not, but the way it impacts people that are living on that poverty edge is much deeper and more destructive. When the book you write that when you first experienced poverty, you thought the problem appeared to be one of economics and decision-making. Yes. But

that assumption changed and you decided to go deeper. What did you find were some of the underlying causes that you didn't expect at first? You would think, okay, well, if I just give somebody the money they need to get over the situation, that's something will change. But for example, we had a project that we were doing in a community called Avianas, which is in a very remote area of Nicaragua, and we were able to go into that community and bring resources basically we were able to do an agriculture development project to allow them to do a community farm, which would potentially allow the number of families, it wasn't a ton of families that lived in that community to move beyond their current poverty state, at least the extreme poverty they were living in, no running water, no electricity. If they had a drought, families would eat leaves to fight off the hunger pangs because there was literally no availability of food in that area. And so we were able to come and say, hey, look, we can invest in you and help you take a step forward. And they were seemingly excited about the idea

until we got started and then the idea that well what am I going to do about tomorrow started to infect their minds at which is I think normal human condition but we were able to address some of those concerns and yet they still weren't able to grab onto it despite all the resources we brought. I can remember many trips and I talked about it a little bit in my book where I would go up and I'd speak to the agriculture specialist that we had working in that particular community. And he would tell me that they were fighting

or they were unwilling to do the work and what it all came down to was they were more worried about figuring out how to get, in this case genes and things of that sort, how to deal with basically what they wanted right now and weren't willing to pay the cost for what it would take to move their family potentially out of poverty for for the next 10 years or even generations who knows. And I it be easy to say well, gosh, they're making horrible decisions and that's the problem. That's the reason, but you have to put yourself in their situation. Everything around them is reinforcing the fact that they're hopeless. They don't have the opportunity.

They've never seen someone move beyond or not many at least move beyond the power that they live in. And they really don't know where their next meal is coming from. So the idea of saying, well, I'm going to invest in the future is a very hard concept unless you have a perspective beyond your current reality. Unless you can say, well, I wasn't created for this life. And many times people, just like I would, if I lived there, get beat down to believing that nothing can ever change. And so that affects the ability to move beyond it. And so what I found was that identity piece, I believe my life is built and that I was created for less than really impacts the ability to move beyond poverty. and then changing that creates a huge difference. Yes, it reminds me of something I read in the most recent book by Mark Manson. He writes, we must feel something about ourselves in

order to feel something about the world. Without those feelings, it's impossible to hope. And that reminds me what you were just saying. Yeah, that's a beautiful quote and I completely agree. Yeah, if we believe we're hopeless, it's really hard to believe there's hope for others. And if we believe we're hopeless, it's really hard to act on any opportunity that we get. So I would agree with that. Well, in that book, he goes on to say that he believes that

it's the overindulgence in emotions that's leading to the crisis of hope. Do you agree with that? That's an interesting phrase. Yeah, I'd love to hear more about what exactly he means by that, but certainly I would think that emotions, the overindulgence of emotions, plays a role in it. I just think also it's the lack of perspective. I mean, I grew up with a family and parents that told me that I was meant for something more. I grew up with a grandfather, I talk about my book who wrote letters to me growing up, which I had no idea how important it were at the time. I'm a pre-teen kid and I'm like, oh great, my grandfather wrote a letter to

me, that's really nice. But now looking back, I had no idea how important it was that he was telling me that there was a plan for my life and that I was created for a purpose on purpose. And the difference that would play in my life. And so I think apart from that, it becomes not impossible, but really difficult. When no one is speaking truth into your life, when no one is providing a perspective beyond maybe your current pains and challenges, it becomes really difficult to move beyond it. And so I would say that plays a huge role in what I see. And you think about the pandemic, right? And the hopelessness that people experienced there was some of it, I think, was, well, when is this ever going to end? We didn't have a clear picture for the future. And so when you don't have a clear picture of the possibility of a better future, it really leaves us in a sense of hopelessness.

of the possibility of a better future, it really leaves us in a sense of hopelessness. Well, and just think about all those, like the people you encountered in Nicaragua or in Haiti who don't have this feeling that they're just thrust into the situation they're living in. And you don't have to be in one of those countries. I mean, I see it right outside my house here in Tampa Bay where I live, how many people are feeling hopeless, regardless

of if they're in poverty or they could be millionaire. No, you're right. Yeah, I think that's very true. And what I tell people sometimes to that, and is that when I feel hopeless and it impacts the way that I live, my margin for error is so much greater than someone living in poverty who gets in that position, where they might make decisions that impact their lives that could have an impact for years to come. If I decide I'm hopeless and I act on those thoughts in some way,

then I have the means to keep myself from really falling into poverty situation. Yeah, well, something you write about in the book is you say that you came to realize that the lie of hopelessness plays in the perpetuation of poverty. What is that? Yeah, so when I think of hopelessness, so this was an interesting point as I started to write the book and I heard or started to unpack the idea of hopelessness. What I have found ultimately is that I believe it's a lie. I don't believe anyone is truly hopeless. What happens is we get caught up in this lie and we start believing either that we're hopeless or that other people are hopeless. And so when I talk about how the lie of hopelessness perpetuates poverty, it's the fact

that the person that's in poverty, they have the lack of opportunity. So that's part of the hopelessness. If we're looking at it as two sides, one of it is this practical element. There's no opportunity. Why is the lie? Is there plenty of resources that could be used to give that person an opportunity? If somebody was willing to invest in them, but they don't see the opportunity and there isn't. So for them, it's a sense of hopelessness. And then they believe they're hopeless because everything around them reinforces that and they've bought into this identity

that their life is not going anywhere, that they are essentially hopeless. But in the end, I believe that's a lie because I don't think anybody was created to be hopeless. Again, I don't believe they're much different than I am. It's just that they've been not provided the same opportunity. And then that gets complicated by the fact that the people on the outside, people like you and me, we often look at people in poverty, whether they're in Nicaragua or in my case Baltimore city or in your case, maybe Tampa Bay.

And we say goodness, well, they seem like they're hopeless. And so we don't take the steps to create real change. We might do something that provides a momentary relief of their problem to get food or clothing and not that those things are wrong, but we don't take the steps necessary to actually invest in people to create real change, to build relationships, to provide the resources needed to start businesses or education, things of that sort. So our perception of them as being hopeless affects the way we to build relationships, to provide the resources needed to start businesses or education things of that sort. So our perception of them as being hopeless affects the way we treat them.

And again, it's a cycle of hopelessness that live hopelessness perpetuates. And so when we believe people are hopeless and they believe they are, it perpetuates poverty. Well, I think the best follow on question of that is you spend a great deal of the book talking about how hope could be a lens to end poverty. So based on what you have seen in the work that you were doing, what are some steps that we could take to use hope as a remedy for this situation? Yeah, I would say first, it's changing the way that we see poverty. I talk about this from an individual sense, but also you could look at it in the more general or macro sense that we look at how do we actually perceive people in poverty. Do we believe they're hopeful filled or do we believe they're hopeless? If we get curious, like I say, about that idea, that will maybe challenge some of our preconceived ideas about poverty and the people that will live in it.

And so if we can get to that point and say, okay, well, what do I truly believe? And I'm going to try to address my belief in that. I think really investing in people and being willing to be in it for the long haul. Addressing issues as big as poverty is not a one day, one year one-decade type of problem. It takes a long-term investment and a commitment. I mean, you think about when somebody truly believes in you, it's not that a person that comes up to you and says, hey, great job. I believe in you. It's the person that actually spends their life investing in you and following up with you and telling you that they believe in you. So, willingness to truly invest and when I say invest it can be emotional in that sense, but it can also be resources. And that's super important

for people that are in poverty. Committing resources in a way started a bike shop for example in Nicaragua called the Nicarbikeshop, which took into a significant investment. We sent used bikes down and and they sell them there. And that's created employment. It's created an opportunity for ownership for people in Nicaragua. But it was a step of saying, we believe in you and we're actually gonna commit resources to it. So figuring out what the need is and then saying, we're willing to invest in the long term,

providing that practical hope. And in a way that actually addresses and lifts that person not just sometimes, for example, churches and things of that sort, we'll provide that momentary relief but not the long term development relief. And so that piece of the puzzle. And then being willing to commit, like I said, for the long term of bringing what I would say a reframed identity to people. So not just providing the resources, but saying, we'll actually walk with you and be a part of helping you get to that next level. We

believe in you enough to be a part of your life. And so that has been super important as well. So again, going back to this example, the bike shop, it wasn't, hey, we'll start, I hope you started bike shop. And then we said, see, I'm still engaged in the bike shop today and still encouraging them and being encouraged, by the way, by them. And that, again, is an important piece because it helps to reframe that identity to say you were meant for something more. And so I think if we can

get to the point where we're actually looking at people as hopeful and then bringing what we have to the table to make a real difference, I think that we can see some real change, but it's going to require a long-term investment and it requires both pieces, both the practical hope and then that reframed identity. And if we focus on both of those things instead of just one or the other, and it doesn't mean that we all, we have to do it all, but if we're saying, well, are these two elements present in that situation, I believe real change can happen and we've seen it happen in Nicaragua. So I wanted to ask a follow-on question to that topic of identities, which is how would you suggest to a listener who might be facing a crisis of hopelessness in their own life?

How do they go about re-examining the narrative of their life? And in doing so, what will it allow them to change going forward? Yeah, I would say that it's looking back. I have to think of replacing lies with truth in my life. That's the way I like to think about it in some senses. So I've done this for myself who's going back and looking at my life and saying, well, how did I end up here? What is it that's really feeding this sense of hopelessness in me? Is it something someone said to me? I talked in the book about a teacher, a first great teacher that actually told me that I was not very smart basically. And then there were things that reinforced that concept throughout my life.

And I needed other people basically when I was a young person to step in and say, no, that's not true. And we wanted to invest practically in my life. But looking back and saying, well, what are the voices that have it may be feeding that hopelessness in you. And then extinguishing them and saying, well, what truth is actually available? What can I replace this lie with? Like I said, my first great teacher said, you're not very smart, you're not gonna really do anything with your life.

Well, everything that I've seen since then, and for me, I fall back on my faith, Christian, my faith is a Christian, I fall back on some of it on what I believe God believes about me, but also well, the people have reinforced in my life and helped me to again reframe that identity. So it's taking your eyes and saying, well, I'm not gonna stare at this line anymore.

I'm gonna frame my life around a truth that I was created on purpose and for purpose. So replacing those lies, it might be with finding moments in your life where you've found hope. That's often, I think, very valuable to say, more than likely there's been a few moments in your life no matter how hopeless you feel that you've seen real hope happen, not the wishy washy.

I hope my football team will win hope, but the foundational hope of man, I can move beyond us and finding those moments and thinking about, well, what was it in that moment that allowed me to get there reframing around that instead of the lies that often hold us down has been super important to me. So. And in the book, you bring up Blaze Pascal and a quote of that Pascal wrote. And to summarize it, if we're feeling this hopelessness, there's a whole vacuum that we feel that needs to be filled by an infinite or immutable object.

You could call that faith, you could call it purpose, you could call it a passion. Why do you think his quote has such a profound impact and why did you decide to include it in the book? Yeah, because I think that is really ultimately where we gain that reframe identity from. I think there is something missing outside of that, in my case, it's been faith, but outside of that object, that thing beyond us are bigger than us without that perspective that becomes really hard to move beyond hopelessness without it. And so you think about, I even think about the recovery world, the 12 step process. And one of the first steps you take in that is kind of deciding that you're

not in control that there's a higher power. And that they start there because they know without that, it's really hard to move beyond the addiction issues that people face. And so it's the same thing I believe with hopelessness. That's just another form of it in many cases. And so without this higher power, this perspective that there's something beyond my present life, there's someone that cares about me, beyond my present hopelessness,

that it's really hard to move forward beyond it. And again, for me, that's been realizing that I was created on purpose and for a purpose. If I believe that's true, that's going to really impact the way I live. I'm going to have moments, maybe where I think, gosh, I can't do anything with my life. But then if I go back to that truth, that no, that's not true. And I've replaced again that whole with this, again, my case, God, believing that I'm created on purpose and for a purpose, it really changes the way I act and the decisions I make in my life.

So, yeah. That's interesting. I recently interviewed Andreas Woodmer, who is a professor at the Catholic University of America, not too far away from you. But years ago, he was in the French foreign Legion and he was a Swiss guard for Pope John Paul II. And he said the Pope was an incredible mentor to him, but one of the most impactful things here, we're told, is you were put here to do the one thing that only you can do. If you're not pursuing that one thing and living your purpose,

no one else beside you will ever be able to do what you were intended to do. And I think it's a very important message and you just brought it up with your message on being on purpose. I love that. I think that's so true. Well, James, if there was one thing you wanted a reader of the book or a listener of this podcast to take away from it what would it be? I would just say

that as hopeless as sometimes we feel about ourselves and also about the world around us we live in a moment in time I think where there is a lot of news and a lot to see that can leave us feeling hopeless. Even if we're not suffering from it ourselves, it can leave us wondering, is there really a future? Can things really get better or we just had it slowly down a path towards hopelessness? And I would say I just don't believe that's true, but it's going to require all of us changing our perspective.

And that's why I encourage people to get curious to say, hey, think about what you're thinking about and the way that you think about the world and ask yourself those questions. And then realize that you have something to offer. And I think what I found for myself, at least, is that when I'm willing to bring hope to other people, I find more hope for myself. And I think some of that is that we, when we decide that person is worthy of receiving hope that they can make a change in their life, it's basically a reinforcement that the world is not destined for brokenness forever, that we can make a difference. And so by taking that step, I think that is a step of hope even for ourselves. So being willing to do that, and then maybe find someone else you can get connected to, to act that out. And I just be say, take a step. If you're feeling hopeless today, maybe your first

step towards finding hope for yourself is again, to take a step towards bringing hope to someone else or learning about how you might be able to because I truly believe everyone has something to offer. And we take those steps, we find more significance in our life. And we create a better world. So I would just encourage people to get out there and bring hope to others and they'll find more help from themselves. Okay. And if someone wanted to learn more about you, what are the best ways for them to do so? Yeah, you can go to my website, jameshbult.com. You can find my book, Hoop Realized on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever you might find your books. I'd love for you to check it out and learn a little bit more about why I believe there's so much hope for our world.

Well, James, thank you so much for being here today. And congratulations again on the release of this book and the message that you're trying to deliver to the world. Thanks, Donna. I really appreciate it. It was great. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with James Bell. And I wanted to thank James for the honor and privilege

of having him here on the show. Links to all things James will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you buy any of the books from the authors that we feature on the podcast. It helps us support the show and make it free for our listeners. Avertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals.

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