Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Jason Harris on How to Boost Your Persuasion Skills EP 333

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on PassionStruck. The Val learning storytelling, it's understanding your values, writing down those values, expressing to people who you are and what you believe in, that allows you to stand out. In this world, where we're all persuading every day, whether we like it or not, personally and for our business, you've got to stand out. If you don't stand out, you're not going to get noticed.

Starting point is 00:00:25 It's up to you to determine and really know yourself and talk about it. What really works in persuasion is standing out and knowing yourself and really being an original. Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armeils. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn

Starting point is 00:00:46 their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello everyone, welcome back to ActionStruck. Consistently ranked by Apple is one of the top 10.

Starting point is 00:01:23 Health Podcasts and the number one alternative health podcast. Thank you to all of you who come back each week. To listen and learn, had to live better, be better, and impact the world. If you haven't heard me talk about it, my book, Ashenstruck, is now available for pre-sale. Links will be in the show notes. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here, or you simply want to introduce this. For a friend or a family member, we now have episodes, starter packs. These are collections of our fans' favorite episodes

Starting point is 00:01:46 that we organize in convenient topics that give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do here on the show. Either go to Spotify or passionstark.com, slash starter packs to get started. In case you missed it, earlier this week, I interviewed Rebecca Rosen to psychic medium, an author of the new book, What Is Heaven.

Starting point is 00:02:02 Rebecca serves as a mediator between two realms, a physical world which entails everyday problems and the spiritual world where she has gained insights revealing that every individual is born with a unique mission and it is our responsibility to fulfill it in this Earth scroll. I also wanted to say thank you for your ratings and reviews. If you love Rebecca's episode or today's we would appreciate you giving it a 5 star review and rating and sharing it with your friends and families. I know we, inner guests, love, see your comments

Starting point is 00:02:29 and hear your thoughts about guests that you'd like to see on the show or topics you'd like to see me explore on Momentum Friday. Today, we have an extraordinary guest joining us, Jason Harris. And together, Jason and I will embark on a journey to unravel the secrets of soulful persuasion and unlock the power within each of us to become true artists of influence. persuading someone to do something to take an action is indeed an art form.

Starting point is 00:02:54 The intricate psychology, the interplay of dynamics, they weave a carefully crafted tapestry between the marketer or salesperson and the client. But what if we could infuse this art with soul, art and compassion? the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner,

Starting point is 00:03:11 the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner, cleaner, the cleaner, the cleaner agency. Jason has become a beacon of self-ful persuasion, showing us that anyone become true artist in their own right. Everyone has a story to tell, but how effectively can we convey our narratives? How can we become master influencers in an age marked by skepticism and distrust?

Starting point is 00:03:35 The self-ful art of persuasion is not just another self-help book filled with quick tips and life hacks. No, it's a guide to developing the habits that others want to be influenced by. It's a radical idea that persuasion isn't solely about facts and arguments. It's deeply rooted in personal character. Jason imparts his wisdom through instructive and entertaining stories, presenting us with 11 transformative habits. During this interview, Jason and I will explore the captivating benefits and stories contained within his book. Well, unravel the secrets of soulful persuasion and how you can cultivate character-building habits for both personal growth and sustained business success.

Starting point is 00:04:09 Together, we'll discover the extraordinary power of earning respect through collaboration, becoming the person others want to be around and practicing generosity through gestures big and small. So invite you to join Jason Harris and myself on this exhilarating journey of self-discovery. Thank you for choosing PassionStruct and choosing me to be your host and guide on this exhilarating journey of self-discovery. Thank you for choosing Passion Struct and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

Starting point is 00:04:31 I am absolutely thrilled and honored to have Jason Harris join me on Passion Struct. Welcome, Jason. Thanks for having me. Good to be here, John. I'd love to start my interviews out by allowing the audience join me on PassionStrock. Welcome, Jason. Thanks for having me. Good to be here, John. I love to start my interviews out by allowing the audience to get to know you better. And I love to use this question. We all have moments that define who we become. What are some of the defining moments that shaped you?

Starting point is 00:05:00 Oh, man. You can't start with a softball one. You guys start with that. I like it. Well, I talk about a couple of these moments in the book. I run an advertising business, advertising agency. And I always think about this moment when I was, I don't know, 12 or 13. I really got into the band kiss. I discovered kiss. That's a very significant moment for me.

Starting point is 00:05:28 I got into the characters of the band. I got into their performance. I got into the music. I have an empire of stuff that they sell everything from KISS condoms to KISS coffins, like from preventing life all the way to death. They sell like everything under the sun. And as a kid, I get that comic books, that TV specials. I go see them in concert. I join the Kiss Army. And when I join the Kiss Army, they would send you letters in the mail.

Starting point is 00:05:59 I think about it as one of the first influencer programs in the world, because they would send you like key chains and notes that I'm sure they didn't sign. And you wanted to be in this community, you wanted to be in this network, in this club. And I felt like I found like a tribe. And I'd go to their concerts as I got a little bit older. And I didn't know it at the time, but it was the first time where I really understood

Starting point is 00:06:29 subconsciously the power of storytelling and the power of branding. And it just felt drawn to the kiss brand. And that was a real important moment as I reflect back on what I chose as a career. And the things that I like and what I'm passionate about, which is music and branding. And that was like, well, I just remember joining

Starting point is 00:06:54 the Kiss Army as a kid was like a real milestone for me. So I think that's one. And then I guess a second defining moment is, I started an agency about almost 20 years ago now with three other friends and when we started the company this is another music metaphor but we decided we would split the company up equally and we'd all have the same amount of equity in the company. And when we did that, we're still running it today. And I think because of that decision,

Starting point is 00:07:30 that defining decision, it's the reason why you two still around. They split everything four ways. So the singer doesn't own 80% or 50% or the songwriter owns more. And that was a really important decision because we were able to go through all the highs and lows together and not deal with who thinks

Starting point is 00:07:52 they're being taken advantage of or treated unfairly. That was a important moment in how we structured business that we started. And then of course, personally, my two kids were born. That was another defining moment of permanent change for me and understanding that life is about more than work, basically.

Starting point is 00:08:15 Well, I love those different aspects because I've got a couple of kids myself. And there's nothing you can experience like seeing your children being born and just that overall experience of bringing someone into this world. So it can definitely relate to you there. And I remember as a kid buying Kiss Alive One, which later on in my life, I found out that they manipulated all the song into that album, but I remember just listening to it so many times and my dad was,

Starting point is 00:08:51 what is this crap you're listening to? I know, my parents said the same thing. And to bring it full circle because I ended with my kids, I took my F2 songs, I took them to see KISS. I don't know which tour it was at the end of the road, I think, like they're supposedly their final tour. And so we painted our faces in the characters and I took them to Madison Square Garden.

Starting point is 00:09:16 And I always wanted them to, when someone, at the beginning of a meeting, is tell us your first concert. I wanted them to have to say kiss as their first concert. So I took them to see kiss and they absolutely hated it. And we left after five songs and they're like, Dad, this music sucks. I'm like, yeah, the music's not great,

Starting point is 00:09:39 but they're performance, they're fun. This is like a good time. So that kind of brought it full circle. Well, I just got a call from the person who handles my PR and he is very good friends with Gene Simmons and said, Gene, discovered your show and would like to be on it. You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. And so I went, oh, that's amazing. So I went back to him and said, I understand that they're doing their farewell tour. I go, is there any way when they're up in New York

Starting point is 00:10:09 on the final night, you could get me an exclusive interview with him and Paul Stanley. And I could pump this stuff out live. So I'm waiting to hear back on it, but I think that would be an amazing interview right there. Oh my God, that would be incredible. That's so cool that he called. I couldn't believe it.

Starting point is 00:10:28 Luckily, the two of them are friends, so I think it just came up. Yeah, so cool to have someone like that potentially on the show. Yeah, I know, that's awesome. I love that. Because that is talk about passion. Like they really took their passion,

Starting point is 00:10:43 turned it into a business. They're one of the best-selling artists of all time. They just really turned into a business that has lasted decades and decades. It's really impressive. Well, similar to your business, which has lasted decades and decades. That's true.

Starting point is 00:11:00 The difference between me and Kiss, though, is that Kiss never ages, because they just put makeup on. They just put like the star and the cat and the demon and they just look the same as they did. That's a difference. Speaking of mechanism, the company that you founded, co-founded, you have worked with

Starting point is 00:11:22 some of the leading brands in the world, Palatine Beningeris, Jose Cuervo, HBO, Amazon Pepsi, to name a few. But I wanted to ask you through this lens, what are some of the most persuasive ads that you have ever seen and what made them stand out? When you think about crafting and ad, I think there's always three tenants that I think about. When you're telling a brand story, you get a brief, this from your experience. It's usually pretty long. They brands want to say everything, why are brands the best, how it's changing the world, all the reasons to believe.

Starting point is 00:12:02 They call those RTBs. What's great about the product or service, and the agency's job is really to take this complex story that the brand marketers have in their heads and strip it down to the core message that you're trying to tell the audience. So one of those tenants is to simplify the message. The second one is really once you create a brand story or a message, you have to really be consistent with it. So you can't create

Starting point is 00:12:36 ads that always have a different theme or a different message because no one's going to know what you stand for. It's the same way with people. If you're talking about a personal brand, you have to really be consistent. So a simple, ownable message, it has to be told over time and a different media platforms consistently. And then the third is trying to figure out a way to build community or involve the audience with your brand. Those, to me, are like the three hallmarks of what makes for good branding and separates the great brands in the world from mediocre brands. There's all these studies that say consumers wouldn't care if over 70% of brands that are around today were gone.

Starting point is 00:13:21 Like, they don't really care about brands. They don't like advertising. Cons. They don't like advertising. Consumers don't love advertising. But if you can think about it as storytelling and not advertising and you can be in that 30% that of the brands that people love, you're gonna have a very successful company. And I think the one hard thing that we always deal with

Starting point is 00:13:44 in our work is there's two paths, a very successful company. And I think the one hard thing that we always deal with in our work is there's two paths. Marketing is all about growth. That's the function of marketing is to grow a business. And that's all it is. Grow a business and drive revenue, drive shareholder value, that's the purpose of it. But you have to do that in two ways.

Starting point is 00:14:02 One is the block entangling of getting sales today and quarterly wins so that the company's growing. And then there's a longer term part of brand storytelling. And you have really have to figure out how to do both of those things either together in the same concept or same ad or in separate streams. One's just selling the product and talking about why the product's better and

Starting point is 00:14:29 why you need the product and the other is building that brand equity, which takes a long time. That's not answering your question. It's just a little background. Your question was, what are some of the most persuasive ads? Man, there's just so many ad campaigns that I like. But I always go back to my favorite ad of all time when I get this question. It doesn't necessarily have every component that I talked about. My favorite ad was in 2011. It was for the Super Bowl, and it was for Volkswagen, and it was the Darth Vader commercial. It was called the force.

Starting point is 00:15:07 And if you remember, it was about a kid who had a Darth Vader costume on and he was trying to see if we had the powers for the force and he tries all different things around his house. And his dad comes home and parks the Volkswagen and he goes in the kitchen and he sees the sun trying to use the forest on the car and the dad turns the headlights up and the headlights come on and the kids all looks his hands But it's a great ad because there was a part of the product that they were trying to highlight, I guess, for Volkswagen. But they did it through storytelling. And you don't really feel like you're watching an ad.

Starting point is 00:15:55 You're watching a story. And it's emotional. And it's a Volkswagen's a family car. So they have talking to the right audience. And to me, that ad was just very emotional and very memorable. And I think you did a lot for a brand. I remember that one, and I also remember as a younger kid watching the Minjo Green ad that a lot of people reference.

Starting point is 00:16:21 But the interesting thing about that one is I understand it didn't sell much of the product that it was endorsing. The Coca-Cola ad? Yes. Oh, really? But I think it brought them brand affinity through the emotional undertones that it brought. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:42 So I think really in advertising, you either really go emotional to make it memorable or you do something like if you remember when old spice had the man your man could smell and it was this like really funny ad guy was on a horse. It was just like fantastical and funny, but it really had a simple message. It really was about this man smells so good and by this product, it's the man that your man could smell like. And it was obviously targeting man through targeting

Starting point is 00:17:18 men to smell good for women, but it was just simple and funny. It was like nothing you've ever seen before was breakthrough. So I think those are really two ways you can think about your storytelling and your message is hit that emotional chord, which is really hard to hit. And then conversely, make people smile and laugh and get that emotion out of them. And then we'll remember your brand that way.

Starting point is 00:17:43 Both of those are really hard lines to walk because you can do it ad you think is funny and it falls flat or you can do an ad you think is emotional and doesn't really resonate. So it's really tricky. You do a lot of consumer testing and research and you figure out what the audience response to before you put ads like that out there.

Starting point is 00:18:05 I remember how we would test our ads at Lowe's and Dell, and in fact, at Dell, while I was there, we were completely rebranding the company, and our new slogan was going to be the power to do more. And I remember they shared a potential commercial to the senior executives at one of our off sites. And it was so emotionally moving that people were in tears because they were showing how Dell technology was saving lives, how it was enabling this, how it was allowing people to escape from poverty. And for the life of me, I don't know why we ended up not using it. I think it's things like that that bring people closer into brands. Why do you think you didn't use it?

Starting point is 00:18:55 Why do you think they decided not to use it? I thought it was perhaps a little bit off the mark for where they were wanting to go with the software business at the time, but my friend who was the CMO. Left about two months after the decision came down not to do it because I think she was so wed are trepidacious about doing or anything that's around purpose because they feel like, or emotional in that way, because they feel like it's almost, if they're doing some good, some type of social good work,

Starting point is 00:19:39 that if they talk about it, they're chest beating about it, but I find that if you're doing something, you should always talk about it, because no one's gonna know about it, they're chest beating about it. But I find that if you're doing something, you should always talk about it. Because no one's gonna know about it. Yeah. Well, I agree with you because I look at so many of the businesses that are out there today

Starting point is 00:19:54 and if it wasn't for them, the world would be a completely different place. Now, there's some bad elements to it, but so many good things have come out of it. Just look at a cell phone manufacturer. You might think of them as just holding this device, but look at all the things that you can do and life-saving measures that it has through its use. So it's just what lends you're choosing to look at. You're looking back to that, just to connect the dots for your audience. The old spice work here at Mancud smell like they didn't add,

Starting point is 00:20:28 they used that line for a very long time. It was very consistent. And then they had the old spice guy respond to tweets and respond it on social. And so the brand was talking directly to people and involving them in the ad. And then they would share it. And it just snowballed because they didn't just put ads out there and sit back. They really did that involvement marketing piece, which helped it spread.

Starting point is 00:20:59 So I think always thinking about that aspect too, how do you involve the audience or respond to the audience or have them help become almost an extension of your marketing. How do you help them drive your content? Well, I think a great example of that is one of your clients, Peloton, who has really used that community factor and blown it way out. Peloton did such a great job.

Starting point is 00:21:23 We told stories through those ads, but we also had to sell bikes. We were doing those two things together. They're really direct response ads because the only way you can buy the bike is by going to the website. So those ads had to show transformation and emotion and the audience and then have a call to action. So you could get the bike.

Starting point is 00:21:46 One campaign we did was highlighting member stories and that was really successful because it showed members that actually were on the product. It wasn't models. It was real members and real people and when you join it's built built into the product, they create groups on social. And if you're a member, you can get advice, talk about the different rides, talk about the instructors. That community is really robust and flourishing. And that's really what keeps people subscribed to the product is the community is at the heart of it. It's really well-made product, the hardware is great, your screen's great, the classes are great,

Starting point is 00:22:28 but it's really about the community and the connection to the community, even though it's a product you're doing at home by yourself, you might do a live class, but you're at home, not in real life with people, and through social is how you're connecting off the bike with a community. Yeah, everyone wants to be the top of that leaderboard.

Starting point is 00:22:48 Everyone wants to be top of the leaderboard. I'm just happy if I can see my name somewhere. Unfortunately for me, that will never happen what I've been writing for decades. So well, Jason, I you ride outside. Are you ride that in at home? I ride that at home and just use Peloton, but so I'm not connected to them. So I can't see how I match up. But I've been doing spin classes for so long. Do you have a Peloton bike or you just use the app? No, I have the Schwinn bike. Oh okay, and you use the app to ride. Yes, I just have my 70 inch TV in front of me and that's

Starting point is 00:23:35 what I use to watch it on. Wow, that's awesome. Well Jason, one of the things I'd love to do on the show when I have the opportunity is to highlight philanthropy. Can you tell me about the creative alliance, which you co-founded? Yeah, sure. I've been in the advertising business a long time and I was asked for during the Obama and Biden administration. I think it was maybe, I have to look at the date, maybe 2000 and 2014.

Starting point is 00:24:07 If you're talking about, it's on us. Yeah, thank you. Well, there you go. Wow, you did your research. So 2014, I got asked to go to the White House and they were really trying to start a program because sexual assault on college campuses was so rampant, one in three, primarily freshmen and sophomore, primarily women are sexually assaulted, one in three. So it was being under reported, and it still is a massive issue. wanted to create a campaign where we could have colleges educate students about not being a bystander and stepping in and doing something. And so we said yes, and we created this campaign called It's On Us, which really the message

Starting point is 00:25:00 is it's not about the person that is committing the sexual assault, which is a really low percentage. It's about everyone else being aware and trying to prevent it and speaking out, we created a lot of material. We ended up creating chapters on 500 colleges and universities. We had a bunch of advertising with famous celebrities to get the word out. And we created merchandise with Cool Logo,

Starting point is 00:25:29 did a lot through social. But it's a long way of saying we created this one campaign. And because I was pretty advanced in my career and had never done any social good, non-profit work, it really reinvigorated my passion for advertising and it made me realize that you can take whatever skills you have and whatever industry you're in, whether it's education or finance or healthcare or even advertising and you can take those skills and apply it to try to do something good in the world and it was very successful. We're still

Starting point is 00:26:05 working on it almost a decade later. It made me balance out. If I can help brands tell stories and sell ice cream and deodorant and sneakers, why can also use it to maybe help prevent sexual assault or work for gender equity or get people to vote. And it just sparks something. We kept getting asked to do all these nonprofit campaigns. And my CFO was like, okay, it's great you're doing these, but we also need to pay in clients. So I set up this thing called Creative Alliance,

Starting point is 00:26:40 which is now part of DC-based nonprofit, a called Civic Nation. And there's about 100 other agencies in this network. And so when Civic Nation has a need for fighting anti-hate or civic engagement, getting people to vote, whatever the case might be, they'll tap one of the agencies in the network and create a nonprofit campaign. And so that creative alliance really came out of my belief that you can apply branding and advertising skills to create not just PSAs, but create campaigns that can be around for a long time and make a difference. We can all do it together. It doesn't have to be all on mechanism to do it. It can be nine, nine other companies can step in as well. So that was the

Starting point is 00:27:30 idea behind it. I love it because if you want to do systemic change, you have to get people embodied in what you're trying to change. So using creativity and your skill set to bring that about, I think is remarkable. So that's why I wanted to highlight it. So thank you for sharing. Of course, yeah. I recently interviewed Dory Clark who came out with a new book called The Long Game

Starting point is 00:28:00 and Wilgadera who wrote unreasonable hospitality. And you might say, why is he grouping these two people together? But the reason being is they both had a common message. And that is transactions are about getting what you want. And the long game is about forging relationships. I think Will says it the best way. When he thinks about transactions or service, he considers it table stakes, whereas hospitality

Starting point is 00:28:26 or the long game is everything. And I understand this is a philosophy you also support, and one of the reasons you decided to write your book. Can you tell us about the book, The Sofil Art of Persuasion, and when it inspired you to write it? Yeah, sure. I had built some entrepreneurial, built a successful company. And I think one reason I wanted to write it is that I read a Gallup poll that said,

Starting point is 00:28:52 what are the least trustworthy professions in America? And it was congressmen, used car salesmen, and advertising practitioner. And I was like, I feel pretty trustworthy. I think we built a business with integrity. And it made me really realize and go back and think. When we started the company, we had a certain values that we, and beliefs that we started the company with. But those kind of morphed into my personal beliefs,

Starting point is 00:29:23 which are around original, generous empathy and so forth. I was like, I think I'm going to put this out there. This is my real philosophy and it's anyone can learn this stuff. You might be innately born with some characteristics, like, original is about always being yourself in any situation. Empathy is about really connecting with other people, generosity of spirit is part of what makes up the idea of playing the long game and not being a short-term transactional thinker.

Starting point is 00:29:57 And then so full is this idea, which we just talked about, which is taking your skills and doing something positive in the world. And I found these values and this approach to be very successful. And I wanted to pass that on. You can learn these things like I wasn't necessarily a generous person. I did have short-term thinking back to the comment about how to be a long-term thinker in a short-term world from the next one. And I wasn't generous where I would share my connections or help people network or connect people together.

Starting point is 00:30:27 That was my natural disability. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature.

Starting point is 00:30:43 I was a little bit more mature. I was a little bit more mature. to the next one. And I wasn't generous where I would share my connections or help people network or connect people together. That was my natural disposition. I really had to learn how to be generous and how to be a long-term thinker and create those skills which opened up a lot of doors and made our company successful and helped me stay in touch with clients that I would pitch and lose that I made a connection with. I would keep up with those clients and I would stay in touch with them. I would start thinking about a no is just a no for right now.

Starting point is 00:31:16 It's not a no for ever. That's a long-term viewpoint. I had to train myself to fight against my instincts and think in a long-term way. And it really was a game changer for me. And I was like, if this guy can change, it's like that rock you would be. If I could change, you could change, we all could change. And so I thought I'd put down these pillars and habits into a compendium and share that knowledge with people. And for the audience, the way that this book is written is Jason lays out these four characteristics as the subheadings for four different sections of the book. And then underneath them, he builds in 11 habits that go with each one of these characteristics. And I was going to go through a few of them,

Starting point is 00:32:04 not all of them, because we want you to buy the book. But I'm gonna start with the first one. It's similar to Kiss. I've been a David Bowie fan since I was a teenager. I was always drawn to and respected how he displayed his original, very weird, true self, openly through his music, and the different personas that he took on.

Starting point is 00:32:25 So I love that you started out the book with turn and face the strange as your number one habit that you opened up with. How does being your weird self allow others to see you as a unique individual? I really did get this from David Bowie and the story on David Bowie, which I always go back to, is that he's very famous, right? Very well renowned singer that in his career last at a very long time, he even came out with an album after he died that was successful that he planned because he knew he was dying. He went to a label. Bob Dylan was really

Starting point is 00:33:05 popular and folk singers were really popular at the time and they wanted him to cut an album of folk songs which he did. That was his first album. That's called David Jones because that was his original name. But anyway, regardless, he put out that first album and it got almost zero sales. It did terribly. It sounded like everyone else. He knew and his gut that was wrong, but he listened to his label. And then he fired his label left, started experimenting and really finding himself.

Starting point is 00:33:36 And then he came out with space oddity. It was around the time when we put a man on the moon. It was perfect timing. His album came out. It was skyrocketed. And then he just took off from there, but he did it on his own terms, and he put his personality and his vision into that work. And if he never did that and just followed the label's ideas, he never would have been the success that he was. So I use that as a metaphor for everyone to be themselves

Starting point is 00:34:06 because everyone else has already taken the famous Oscar Wilde quote. And part of that is really sharing your personal idiosyncrasies with other people. It's talking about the favorite things in your life, your role models, like what we've been talking about in this conversation and why it's about learning storytelling, it's understanding your values, writing down those values, expressing to people who you are and what you believe in, and that allows you to stand out in this

Starting point is 00:34:39 world where we're all persuading every day, whether we like it or not, for personally and for our business, you've got to stand out. And if you don't stand out, you're not going to get noticed. And so it's up to you to determine, really know yourself and talk about it. Part of the short term transactional thinking that is made famous in a lot of older business books

Starting point is 00:35:04 is this idea of mirror and matching your audience. And you like fishing? Oh, yeah, I love fishing too. Or you wear that, I wear that too. Or of course, we should go skiing sometime. And you can see through that, you're just trying to mimic your audience in order to get a transaction done,

Starting point is 00:35:22 not being true to yourself. But what really works in persuasion is standing out and knowing yourself and really being an original. Jason, one of the biggest influences I had for starting the show was Lewis House. And I wanna give a shout out because you did a great episode with him if the audience wants to hear you on another show.

Starting point is 00:35:46 It's a great example because our conversations are completely different that we're having. The reason I was so attracted to Lewis is for much of what you just said is I loved how he was so vulnerable with his audience about so many different aspects of his life, trying to use his personal experiences a way to teach others how to growth from it. And so I think that's another great example of how to do what you were just talking about. He's amazing. I actually had Lewis. We did a kind of influencer thing around. It's on us at the White House. And I brought him, Tim Ferriss, a bunch of other really well-known folks and to the White House to help get spread the word for this program.

Starting point is 00:36:32 This is a great example. He stood up and said, I had an experience where I was assaulted. And it was like a room of 150 people. And he just talked about his experience and why this cause is important to him. And it's exactly what you're talking about by him being vulnerable and sharing something. Other people started sharing their stories. And it created this really powerful moment where instead of not

Starting point is 00:36:59 connecting and not being emotional, not being vulnerable, created a whole other aspect of this event. He really kicked that off. I was like, yeah, this is why I care about this. It's exactly what you're saying. He's really amazing at any design is writing too. He talks about his experiences. That's how you stand out.

Starting point is 00:37:17 That's how you connect. And that's why he's so successful. Yes. Well, he's someone who I've always wanted to have on the podcast, and I'd love to be on his as well. So hopefully over time, it will happen. All you have to do is tag him in this podcast and the materials and CV here's will do. I almost got him when his book launched, but I think he had gotten burned out by how

Starting point is 00:37:42 many interviews he was doing. So I just missed the window. But I feel these things, yes. Well, this is what we've been talking about. It's that long-term thinking. I know one day you're gonna have them on. Yeah, the great book. Where you go.

Starting point is 00:37:59 Yeah, great book. And I'll give him another plug. The Greatness Mindset is a great book. I love reading it. Yeah, it is a great book. Well, one of the things I really captured throughout the book was the role that story playing does in soulful persuasion. I want to ask you how can individuals harness

Starting point is 00:38:19 the power of storytelling to connect with and influence others? One of the habits is learning to be a great storyteller, which again, like anything, you can practice and you practice it enough. It becomes habitual and second nature. And the way to think about storytelling is you started the podcast. Your first question was, what are few? Defining moments, because I want you to,

Starting point is 00:38:49 because I want you to story tell, I want people to get to know you. So that's an example of thinking about what are some defining moments in your life and write them down. Remember, figure out how you wanna to tell those defining moments when not necessarily when you're asked that question, but when you're having a conversation with someone and you have a parable or an antidote that can connect it to your

Starting point is 00:39:16 own life and your own experience. We go through life and we don't always reflect back on the journey. I think it does take a journal and a pen and time and space to really reflect on what are important moments in your life. What are your favorite books that you've ever read and why do they connect with you or your favorite characters or your favorite musicians that we talked about really understanding and diving into those things that make you and creating stories as reference, that's really how you become a really good storyteller. And if you want to make your point of view or win over an audience or connect with someone, you have to transport them through some type of narrative. But that narrative can be moments in your life. It can be things you hope to accomplish. It can be entertainment that speaks to you,

Starting point is 00:40:13 art that speaks to you, role models that you have in their story and why you're connected with them. There's a lot of things you can pack into your story of the person that you are. It takes practice and it takes thinking about and it takes diving into understand those stories. If you do that enough, you'll start remembering all those stories you wanna tell

Starting point is 00:40:33 and you'll be able to pull one out when the time's right and you're trying to connect with someone. Well, I love that. And when I started this podcast, I researched storytelling because I have to say I wasn't very good at it and I knew if I was going to be doing the whole bunch of solo episodes, I better get better at it. and it's interesting how even when you look at movies or television shows, they all follow a very common cadence. And if you can stick to that cadence and the way you tell your own stories and others, it does resonate because people are attuned to being absorbed to those types of stories. Yeah, absolutely. That's why movie scripts are 120 pages. There's a

Starting point is 00:41:27 three acts and it's the way we're used to hearing stories and we expect what's going to happen. Jason, another key area of the book that came out to me was its concept of giving yourself away. And I loved how you did it because you say it's seeking to give something away in every interaction. But I wanted to ask you this question a little bit differently. Can you discuss your answer to this by using the mechanism hoodie you gave away to clients and how it helped you to land one of your biggest brands?

Starting point is 00:42:04 Yeah, sure. So I call in the book, I call this story, the million dollar hoodie, and it's a really good example of giving something away. And it's really without expecting anything in return. And so I was at a conference, and I had met this guy that works at Ben and Jerry's. He still works there now. I sent him a mechanism hoodie because we love our merch here. I'm sure you're going to get one. I sent him a hoodie. I was like, hey, it was great to meet you. But it wasn't Jeff work for us or we'd love to work with your brand. It was really like I thought the sky was was cool and I wanted him to wear our brand. And at some point, they were working with an agency.

Starting point is 00:42:45 And this was years later, any wore that hoodie in their base in Burlington, Vermont, and their office is pretty chilly. Any wore that hoodie in the office, and they're making a list of agencies to contact for this agency review. And they looked down at his chest and saw our logo. I remember this agency, they gave me the city.

Starting point is 00:43:07 Let's throw these guys in the mix. And then we worked with our course. We ended up pitching the business and we kept it for about seven years. But I always think about that as I wasn't expecting something in return. I was just connected with someone, cross paths with them. Thought he was pretty cool,

Starting point is 00:43:26 sent him something and lo and behold, it got us into this big pitch and we ended up waiting the business. It doesn't have to be when you're giving something away at every interaction. It doesn't have to be things. It doesn't have to be gifts. It doesn't have to be hoodies. But it really sparked with me when someone calls me for advice or they're stuck or they want counsel or they need a mentor, whatever it might be, I try to find time to give something away. compounding effect that has over time of being a generous person and how that comes back to you personally and professionally down the road. Well, we've gone through three of the habits. I'm going to do one more and then ask you some overarching questions, but I thought this one

Starting point is 00:44:18 was an extremely important one because today we are seeing simple and consistent negative messaging play out. And I think President Trump was the kingpin at this if you remember his campaign and how he gave people different names. However, this approach causes a lot of fear, hatred, and people to overdose on anxiety. Instead, you believe we should be using a pull of positivity. I want to ask, how can we harness the pull of positivity to counteract the negative emotions that are causing us as Scott Galloway says to be adrift? Be adrift, yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:04 So when I think of the pull positivity, by the way, what you're talking about is negative persuasion, which really does work. Trump was very effective at that. He was actually a really good marketer because the nicknames were really sticky. You do not want to be nicknamed by Trump because those names really stick. That's harnessing really good persuasion and marketing in a negative way. But practicing positivity for me is really about,

Starting point is 00:45:38 and a lot of people talk about this. This isn't like super unique, but cultivating a sense of gratitude for the good things in your life and trying to think about every interaction and how you're going to make that interaction. It doesn't always work. I have to go back and read this book also and remind myself of these values and this philosophy, but trying to make every interaction as positive it can be, and that really does pull people into your orbit, and it helps you be successful.

Starting point is 00:46:14 And I think the mindset of gratitude is really important, and it helps your anxiety, it helps your stress, it helps you be present, helps you be here, not thinking about your future self and what the possibilities are or your past mistakes, but what are you grateful for right here right now at the present moment? And that just has a way of affecting people and spilling it out into the world. And I think when I think about that idea of the pull of positivity, it also makes me think of the idea that everyone on this planet, we're going through life with

Starting point is 00:46:54 different circumstances. But we're all really similar. We're all made up of almost the same. There's a little bit that makes us different. When you have that lens, it changes the way you think about your philosophy, it's not an us versus them. It's trying to have that grateful mindset and that positive mindset. And it's work. Okay. What definitely is, Jason, I've done a lot of episodes over this past year on the topic of ethics, and I've had some really well-known names who are big in ethics, like Peter Singer, Max Beiserman, Don Moore, etc.

Starting point is 00:47:39 Because I think ethics are so important if you want to build what I call a passion struck life. How can individuals navigate ethical considerations when using persuasion techniques, ensuring that they align their personal values and principles? Let's give me an example. You were talking before about how you built mechanism and you laid out core values and then those core values became your own core values. I find that the way I try to live my life is through my values and principles as well.

Starting point is 00:48:16 And I think if we go back to Lewis House, you could say he does the same thing. It's using his core values allows him when he sees ethical considerations to act in a certain way when he's trying to persuade people to think about something different layer in the way that he sees things. So it was more along those lines. I don't have the stappiest answer, but I think when you have those values and you have that road map I think when you have those values and you have that roadmap and you think about ethics, it gives you a really yes or no filter, that gives you clear things that you stand for,

Starting point is 00:48:55 which means you can't really break those. I think when you don't have those clear values written down and your approach and your philosophy. It's easy to blur the lines and make things that go against your gut. So I think you really have to have that kind of those demarcation points of if it's against one of your values, that's how you stand on the right side of the ethical train. Okay, and if a listener has gotten to this point in the interview and they're intrigued by what we both have had to say, what is something that they could do today to take a first step on using the transformative impact of self-ful persuasion in action in their own lives?

Starting point is 00:49:45 the transformative impact of self-ful persuasion in action in their own lives. Once a block's a size and it kind of goes to the fourth principle of self-ful, which is really trying to be inspirational in whatever skill or field that you might have. The power of being inspirational does lead to persuasion because people that we find inspiring, we want to listen to more, we're pulled and drawn to them more. One simple exercise that I talk about in the book, and it goes back to the story we told of how I got into doing some social good for the world using the nefarious skill of advertising and branding. If you take a sheet of paper and you write down on the left side, two or three things that you're really good at,

Starting point is 00:50:37 could be chess, could be your great doing podcasts, whatever it might be you're into for a share or your tax accountant, whatever. If you take your skills and we all have skills that we're good at, and then on the right side you take things that you feel are unjust or that you want to change in the world, it could be anything. Financial literacy, climate change, homelessness, could be anything though. You put those two things on a list. Three on the left side, scales, three on the right side, things that you want to change or make better in the world. You stare at that list long enough,

Starting point is 00:51:15 you will come up with some way that you can do something in your daily, monthly, yearly life to contribute and make the world a little bit better. I would start with that exercise. Okay, and then the last question I had about the book is, what do you hope readers or listeners of this show will take away from your book and how it can positively impact their lives and interactions with others. I want people to take away from the book

Starting point is 00:51:49 that through personal character and cultivation of personal character and values, they will find more success personally and professionally. And that's really the main message of the book. Okay, and then lastly, Jason, if a listener wanted to learn more about you, can you share with us some ways to do that and maybe also give them a glimpse of what we can expect from you in the future? Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 00:52:17 The company website, if you want to check out our company, is m-e-k-a-n-i-s-m-dot-com. It's mechanism, but with a k instead of ch and you can learn more about the book at the soulful art dot com the soulful art dot com and then you can find me on most social media ad jason underscore Harris what i'm up to next i've got my second book in my head that I'm working on. This one took me three years, so I'll be back on your podcast in three years from now. I've got that in my head and just grown to business and sharing a lot of what I'm learning

Starting point is 00:52:56 in the next round. Jason, thank you so much for taking the time to be with this here today. It was truly an honor to have you on. Well, thanks for having me. It was really fun. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Jason Harris, and I want to thank Jason, currency press, Jessica Reda, for the honor and privilege of having them appear on the show. Links to all things Jason will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. All proceeds go to supporting the show. Videos are on YouTube at both passionstruck clips and John R. Miles.

Starting point is 00:53:26 My book is now also available for pre-order. Links will be in the show notes, but you can find it on Amazon. You can catch us also on syndicated radio every Monday and Friday during your commute. Links for that will also be in the show notes. Avertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com. Slash deals. I'm on LinkedIn where you can send up for my newsletter, or you can send up for a newsletter at passionstruck.com. You can also find me at John R. Miles

Starting point is 00:53:50 on all the other social platforms where I post daily. You're about to hear a preview of the Passionstruck podcast interview that I did with Jennifer or Henny Wallace, an award-winning journalist and social commentator who joins us to discuss her new insightful book, Never Enough, When Achievement, Never Enough, when achievement, never enough, when achievement culture becomes toxic, and what we can do about it, it was such a great interview.

Starting point is 00:54:11 I hope you like this preview. I will say the most surprising thing I found in the research was that when you have a child in distress, the number one intervention, according to decades of resilience research, the number one intervention we should do is to make sure to protect the child is to make sure the primary caregivers who are most often the parents that their well-being, their mental health, their support system is intact because a child's resilience rests fundamentally on a parent's resilience and a parent's resilience rests

Starting point is 00:54:55 fundamentally on the depth and nurturance of their relationships. The fee for this show is that you share it with family or friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know someone who would like to know more about the art of self-ful persuasion, relationships. Until next time, go out there and become Ash and Struck.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Jason Harris on How to Boost Your Persuasion Skills EP 333

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.