Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Jeffrey C. Walker On: The Criticality of Collaboration in Systems Change EP 99

Episode Date: January 18, 2022

Meeting the sustainability problems facing society will require the kind of authentic collaboration for which there is still no real precedent. It must be co-created by various stakeholders who understand the criticality of collaboration in systems change and want to positively impact the world. Jeffrey (Jeff) C. Walker is on the leading edge of solving the world’s biggest problems using better philanthropy through systems change. His personal mission is to help end global suffering and enhance joy across the world. In our Passion Struck Podcast interview, Jeff discusses his passion for addressing global issues from a systems change perspective to create a lasting impact. We also go into his love of music and how it influenced his life as well as the work he is doing in support of the University of Virginia Contemplative Science Center and his work in support of mental health, consciousness, and spirituality. About Jeffrey C. Walker Jeff Walker currently serves on the boards of New Profit, Berklee College of Music, Morgan Library, Lincoln Center Film Society, Millennium Development Goals Health Alliance, the Miller Center, and University of Virginia’s Undergraduate Business School, where he was president for 10 years. He is the former Vice Chairman of JPMorgan Chase. New to this channel and the passion-struck podcast? Check out our starter packs which are our favorite episodes grouped by topic, to allow you to get a sense of all the podcast has to offer. Go to https://passionstruck.com/starter-packs/. Have You Tried BetterHELP? BetterHELP is making professional therapy accessible, affordable, and convenient — so anyone who struggles with life’s challenges can get help, anytime and anywhere. BetterHELP offers access to licensed, trained, experienced, and accredited psychologists, marriage and family therapists, clinical social workers, and board licensed professional counselors. BetterHELP wants you to start living a happier life AND is offering Passion Struck listeners 10% off your first month by visiting www.betterhelp.com/passionstruck. Like this? Please join me on my new platform for peak performance, life coaching, self-improvement, intentional living, and personal growth: https://passionstruck.com/ and sign up for our email list. Thank you for joining us today on the Passion Struck podcast. New Interviews with the World's GREATEST high achievers will be posted every Tuesday with a Momentum Friday inspirational message! Learn more about me: https://johnrmiles.com.  SHOW NOTES 0:00 Introduction of Jeffrey Walker 6:03 Developing his love for music and collaboration 11:28 Leveraging collaboration at JPMorgan Chase 14:52 How he started practicing mindfulness 20:15 Importance of humility 23:00 Bridge Builders Collaborative Mission-Based VC fund 29:11 Creating University of Virginia's Contemplative Science Center 34:32 Discussing his book the Generosity Network 38:01 Locally driven and network supported organizations 39:26 Social entrepreneur vs systems entrepreneur 43:44 Collaborative Catalyst models 48:09 Philanthropic support groups 52:22 Proximate Change 55:00 We discuss his upcoming book 57:15 Psychodelic treatment for PTSD 59:24 Default mode network in brain reprogramming  FOLLOW JEFFREY C. WALKER * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreywalkerinfo/ * Twitter: https://twitter.com/Walkerjc FOLLOW JOHN R. MILES ON THE SOCIALS * Twitter: https://twitter.com/Milesjohnr * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnrmiles.c0m * Medium: https://medium.com/@JohnRMiles​ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/john_r_miles * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/JohnMiles * Blog: https://passionstruck.com/blog/ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast   ====== ABOUT JOHN ====== John R. Miles leads a global movement called Passion Struck. He is passionate about being the catalyst who helps individuals expand into the most excellent version of themselves, unlocking the most no regrets life possible. He is a combat veteran, multi-industry CEO, successful entrepreneur, top podcast host, and author who is helping people worldwide regain their passion. John is one of the most-watched, quoted, and followed high-performance trainers globally, and his leadership acumen spans more than two decades. He's founded or co-founded more than half a dozen successful start-ups, was a Fortune 50 CIO and CISO, mentors rising entrepreneurs, and invests in successful tech ventures. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy, where he learned vital leadership skills and was a multi-sport Division 1 athlete.

Coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. But they're arriving now with the high levels of anxieties, depression, sexual violence, issues, drinking issues. We're worried about the world. Not only is it the tough things in the world about democratic change or maybe the goal of the environment or the war or refugees or whatever it might be, but there is a whole set of issues

that we might think are positive, like changing technology, you know, robotics and AI and understanding genetic modification and cyber currencies and all these other issues. They don't know what to do with it. Welcome visionaries, creators, innovators, entrepreneurs, leaders, and growth seekers of all types to the Passion Struck podcast. Hi, I'm John Miles, a peak performance coach, multi industry CEO, maybe veteran and entrepreneur on a mission to make Passion Co-Viral for millions worldwide. In each week, I do so by sharing with you an inspirational message and interviewing eye achievers from all walks of life who unlock their secrets and lessons to become an action star. The purpose of our show is to serve you the listener.

By giving you tips, tasks, and activities, you can use to achieve peak performance and for to a passion-driven life you have always wanted to have. Now let's become passion strut. Welcome back to Passion Start Podcast and thank you to all of you who come back each and every week to learn how to be better, live better, and impact the world. And if you're new to the show or you want to introduce it to friends and family, a great way to do that is through our starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes which are grouped by topic to give a new listener a unique way to learn about everything that we do here on the show.

Just go to passionstruck.com, slash starter packs to get started, and thank you so much. I truly appreciate it when you introduce a new person to the show. Today's episode is an extremely special one for me with Jeff Walker. And if Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it when you introduce a new person to the show. Today's episode is an extremely special one for me with Jeff Walker. And if you're not familiar with who Jeff is, he is the former vice chairman of JPMorgan Chase. Teachers at the Harvard Kennedy School is vice chairman for the United Nations Secretary-General's Envoy for Health, Finance and Malaria, and is a partner with Bridge Builders Collaborative,

a unique investment fund, and has served or is serving as chairman of more nonprofit boards than you can count. Places like Quincy Jones Music Consortium, the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, and new profit. And in today's discussion, we go into both of our unique passion for live music, how he discovered his passion, and how that love of music and feeling of being part of an

ensemble has transitioned into his success in both the business world and the philanthropic world, how he became one of the earliest proponents of mindfulness and business, and how mindfulness has completely altered the way that he approaches his life. The background behind the Bridge Builders Collaborative and how they are investing in companies focused on spirituality,

mental health, and consciousness. His work with the University of Virginia's contemplative science center and what they are doing for youth is time on the United Nations envoy and the impact that that has had not only in other countries but is now having in the United States as well. The concept of being a social entrepreneur versus a systems entrepreneur and how being a systems entrepreneur can truly impact social impact on a global scale. Why it is so important to manage your ego, we talk about some new therapies for post-traumatic stress disorder and finally go into the

concept of system mapping. So much incredible content here. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me as your hosting guide on your journey to live in a no regrets life. Now, let the journey begin. We will be right back to the Passion Struck Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help Online Therapy. and we often discuss mental help on the PassionStruck podcast, and dealing with the stigma of seeking it, is there something interfering with your happiness in preventing you from achieving your goals? For me, depression and anxiety significantly impacted my life until I took charge, got over my embarrassment and sought

out help. And luckily, there is a platform now that makes it so much easier to take that step and get therapy. Better help will assess your needs and match you with your own license professional therapist. I highly recommend that everyone turn to better help to get started and find a therapist who helps you look at things in a different way like they did for me. Their service is customized, accessible, and affordable, and you can be matched with

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Now back to PassionStruck. Jeff, welcome to the Passion Struck Podcast. Thank you. Well, I always love having guests on the show, but there are guests who are on my bucket list, who if I could get them, mean an incredible amount to this show, and you are absolutely one of those people. Because I think so much that you're doing doing not only when you were in the business world but now that you're doing around philanthropy means so much to what we're trying to convey here on this podcast. So thank you very much for coming. Really be fun to have a conversation with you.

Okay well I thought a great starting point would be you and I both have a huge love for live music. And I started that love by early in my life, playing trumpet, and I wanted to hear your journey into how you got involved with music and what instrument you play. Yeah, and I was one of those kids where I wasn't really the athlete, I was always kind of that,

you know, nerd that was really into science and math, et cetera. And didn't find my place until around seventh grade. And I walked into the band room and said, maybe I want to play an instrument. Guy looked at me and I was tall and I had braces and he kind of said, Susa Fone, tuba, because it had a big mouthpiece. And I said, all right, let's try that. And I get to start learning how to play and I got so much in love with what the feeling was of playing with others. And so I got involved in the orchestra,

the wind ensemble, the marching band, jazz ensemble, whatever, because that feeling of playing with others got me that feeling of community. And reinforced that I'm part of this larger group and team that created a sound that I couldn't do by myself. And so that from seventh grade till the end of high school was something that's my mind as they partnership that I continue to want to help support for fine people to connect with.

That's not just around music, but it's around all things I work on. But they love a music stayed with me. So in my private equity career, we bought guitar center and house of blues and lots of radio TV. And then in my philanthropic career, I'm in the board of Berkeley College of Music, the largest music school in the world. And one of the things they talk about there

in the feeling of a jazz ensemble is individuals playing really well by themselves on their instruments. But when they come together and they have the skills of listening to others playing their instruments. But when they come together and they have the skills of listening to others, playing their instruments and riffing off of those sounds so that you can create this song that you couldn't have by yourself and that remembering there's an audience so that impact is important and that connecting to the audience and having them stimulated by the passion that you've got going with others on stage and that you're listening to them as well. So there's a reason you're not just playing for yourself.

Is something that is transformational, it's spiritual, it's a connective feeling. We've all felt like that in live music, you know, what you've talked about before. When you're sitting there listening also, everybody starts saying together. They start dancing together. They're in the moment, they're connected. And how do we do that and have that same kind of experience when you're working on some of the hard problems that we all with face going forward? How do we find others to play with the connect? Because I find that that same feeling of live music of playing with somebody else is what I feel every time I work on something that I think is transformational going for. And that's that passion in my mind, that's what I love what you're talking about and

where you're going with. You find it. When it lights somebody up, you know it. You feel it. And so when you connect people together so that they all light up together, that's transformational. Well, I couldn't agree more. And luckily, we exposed our kids to music at a very young age, introducing them both to piano when they were three or four years old.

And I think that experience has done so much for them because it's opened up a creative area of their brain that I think needs to be nourished, which is why I think music programs, art programs, creative programs in school are so important. But it led my son into songwriting and becoming a percussionist and led my 17-year-old daughter into wanting to join a band and picking up the bass. So taking that experience of music,

how has it helped you to solve problems first during your business career and now during problems first during your business career and now during your social service career. Yeah, and in the business world, we had started the private equity group part of Chemical Bank at the time, Chemical Venture Partners in 1983, and then eight mergers later, it became JP Morgan partners and through all of those, understanding what it means to be a partner. They're the senior team at Chemical Bank, six out of eight of the senior team at JP Morgan, were the senior team from Chemical Bank. Now, why is that? It's because somehow they were able to do these mergers and connections and understand the value of others and be a preferred merger partner.

Then some of the other, maybe more smart institutions couldn't figure out how to connect with each other. They all believe that they had to right and to bring multiple parties together through those eight different mergers. And in the group that I set up, I founded the Private Equity Adventure Group in about a 384. And it was set up as a partnership in a partner forum. And so we operated daily trying to connect with each other, draw consensus. We didn't do a deal where transactional as everyone agreed. And so it was the first partnership in a corporate form. We all had pieces of the deals,

gains and losses off of them. And we had Monday meetings where we brought everybody from eventually around the world. We were 12 billion under management. And we had offices around the world to talk with each other about, you know, I think that's a good idea. It's a bad idea. And we didn't do transactions unless we could create that consensus, that partnership oriented approach. And to my mind, that listening

skills required in that partnership, you know, it was a lot about these young, exciting, you know, associates come on board, you know, with hot MBAs, et cetera. And we had to continue to teach them that you already know what you know, you don't know what the other person knows. And so listening is a high skill that collaborating and figuring out ways to team with your different CEOs that you're working with

in the portfolio companies that you work with, you wanna be an honored partner with them. You don't wanna tell them what you do, what to do, but you wanna partner with them and bring to bear it, everything you know, and connect with what they know to generate a better outcome. And we became a preferred partner because of that. In multiple times, we've backed the same CDO

over multiple deals because of that experience. And so that rolled into the In multiple times, we've backed the same CTO over multiple deals because of that experience. So that rolled into the philanthropic strategies that I worked on when I retired in 2007. And when I taught, and was executive residence at Harvard Business School and Kennedy School, worked on a lot of those social models. And so how is it that a business person can add value to something that's important in the world, like curing decimal area and have an impact.

But not the scene is that arrogant Jay, they think they know everything or business can solve all problems because they cannot. And so how do you build those partnerships with all these different stakeholders to be able to go after those problems? So you can see where it's kind of connected to the entire, you know, scope of my career. Well, so I wanted to take that because I think it goes right into another area of your life that you developed. Because I think it was when you were at University of Virginia, you discovered mindfulness and became one of the first major proponents of it in the business world. So I was hoping you could talk a little

bit about that journey. Yeah, be a good partner. You have to do a lot of your own work, work on yourself, some little self-inquiry. And I was always a spiritual surcher and I was studying first year at UVA near Spiriginia, you know, business and psychology but also very interested in energy, what's going around human body, care and photography, out of bi-experiences, relaxation models. And one evening I was sitting in the Dell outside,

under the stars in an area around the University of Virginia, and started to relax my body and turned into what became my first deep meditation. And that was transformational. It's just something there that just connected. I was more present, I felt more connected and could listen to the sounds of the wind and the rushing of the grass around me.

And so I said, I need more of that. What is that? Let's just talk about it. Let's connect. So I did a lot of more research around it over time. Went and figured out that there's a lot of really interesting teachers like Sharon Salisberg and Joseph Goldstein and many, many others that have been bringing over a lot

of these ideas on mindfulness from India, China too, and so what is that? And so it was lucky enough to get exposed to another number of them as teachers and started saying something is going on. I'm starting to learn other skills that make me better at business and better being a partner and Other people started pointing and saying what's going on with you? You're different. And so I said well, I guess it's good different But you started noticing the change and so I became more interested in how do you how do you teach that? How do you connect with others because it's not just all about you. It's about you and others and when you connect with others in a group, in peers, one, you'll meditate more, you'll

do yoga more, you'll do body movement, you'll understand and how to listen better with others. And so understanding how to do this with others was important to me. And so bringing the ICs ideas out to the world and exploring that became one of my passions. And so I've been doing that kind of ever since and growing it and whether it's understanding what's been practiced over the last thousands of years and had had science to it, how to actually prove that there's something changing in your brain, that there's something called the default mode network that several of us help fund the research around. It goes quiet. That allows you to connect

to other areas of your brain to be more compassionate, to have a little bit kindness come through. And so this is weird for a guy that was managing partner at JPMorgan Partners, that was a vice chairman. And so during, right after 9-11, we did meditation. And there was some people in my group that kind of like, well, this is pretty strange. And I'm not sure about this one. And there's other guys that kind of like, well, I really did need that one. But understanding how to manage anxiety,

how to understand how to manage depression, your feelings, and then work better with others, whether it's your personal relationship, and your family, whether it's relationship with peers and others, these are skills that help you do that. And you may call it flourishing now, well-being, but yes, we started that model and we started creating my full leadership courses

and Harvard Business School. There's authentic leadership now that's taught around it. And it became more and more accepted, rather than very strange, accepted way to address these problems that were all experiencing, particularly now during COVID and global warming and everything else that's going on in the world, it's adding to that anxiety and those skills around it. So it's something that's continued to be with me and something that's core to what I'm working on and with finding others to work on it with is my partnership strategy to add that science

and embed it into the new world. Well, thank you for that. I have a chapter in my upcoming book that's all about the concept that I call Gardiner Leadership. And one of the most important aspects of being a Gardener leader is being what I call humbicious or a leader who's filled with humility.

And I think mindfulness and humility really go hand in hand. So reaching the levels that you have reached both in the for-profit world and nonprofit world, where do you put humility and its importance as a leadership skill? I think understanding that you don't have all the answers is very important, and that there is not one way to do things when people come in and tell me there is the way to do something I run away. It's typically one of those things that I look for people who have managed egos who can't try to get rid of your ego completely, but understanding that someone else has something else to offer.

And understanding that certain of the jobs we've all been trained for, I can think of tenured faculty, I can think of doctors. You know, I want my doctor to kind of be pretty sure what he's doing before he does it to me. But it doesn't mean he has to have, you know, the worst ego in the world, you know. It means he has to say, I'm really understanding what's going on out there. I want him to listen to others because there's new ideas. And so all doctors need this kind of work, you know, academics. They're really hard to get tenure professors to work together. That's a dynamic, endemic problem.

And so that's what we have been working on at UVA. Some others is saying, how do we start lowering the walls between these individuals who have their silos? And it's a business problem. And business has been working on this for decades. And saying that there are ways to build breakdown those walls.

And there are new ways to do this in the social change world. So rather than saying, you know, this Western world is going to go in and say those that are poor and those in the developing world, you say, how do we partner? How do we learn from them who approximate to these issues and saying, there's interesting solutions there. How do we say that there's a common problem we work on, like ending malaria or cutting in half maternal deaths in New Jersey, which we're working on right now with the governor there, or cutting homelessness down to near zero, which a great group called Community Solutions is working on today in over 80 cities. So how do we start working on those things together and build

collaborations and build others that are coming together for the same problem that may have multiple solutions. And all this requires a humble strategy because all this requires this managed ego approach that allows you to say, I'm here constantly learning, grabbing interesting ideas, partnering with people, having a vision in a roadmap, from being able to change that map, but a moment's notice if something better comes along.

And people with deep, strong egos have a harder time doing that. Well, I can attest to that through my career, and I will admit that there were times where I probably had an ego too big for my shoes to fill. But the important thing is realizing when that's occurring and adjusting because you're right. When you aren't listening, you're not being the ultimate leader that you can be.

And that's what leadership is all about. So this leadership philosophy, this managed ego is something I saw in your investment criteria at a venture capital firm, your partner, and called the Bridge Builders Collaborative. I think I have the hope I have the name right. But it looks like you invest in companies around mental health, spiritual awareness, et cetera.

And I was hoping you could talk a little bit more about that company and how you and your partners founded it. Yeah, Bridge Builders, I was set up over 10 years ago. And I got together with a friend of mine, Scott Crens, who was founded CEO of Broadcom and another friend of mine, Austin Hurst, the Hurst family. And we say we like this area of well-being, of understanding mindfulness, and its ability to come in and make the world hopefully handle these anxieties more efficiently, effectively. And we like to look at that space and potentially invest in that space,

also do philanthropies. We did both. And so how do we start working together? We said, hey, let's do that. But let's get someone who could be our collaborative glue that could hold us together, because it's nice having the intention to work together. But unless we have somebody that can help us, to unify our thought and networks our knowledge, it's a weaker collaborative strategy.

And so we hired a guy, Charlie Hartwell, to do that. And we've created a colon best group. And so this is not a fun. It's a group of people who like each other and connect with each other who have deep knowledge and experience in business world, very successful group. We now have 12 people who do that. And it's on the website, you know, BridgeBuilders.com. And understanding, I think it's B.B. Collaborative.com. And understanding that we can invest in this space for a social good. That this is something that we thought was important to bring to the world.

And we might make some money at it as well. 10 years later, after we help fund the startup of headspace and amplify and insight timer and bear peer technologies and a bunch of others, we've made a significant rate of return. And so you're saying, you're going, also the venture guys started saying, this is a good area.

I wanted to go into this, you know, well-being area. I wanted to go into this mental health area. Also, this is one of area. I wanted to go into this well-being area. I want to go into this mental health area. Also, this is one of the big, you know, funding bills that are coming through Congress right now. So support this understanding and strategy on mental health. And so we fell into, why? This is really working for us, and we have more people joining it, and we sit once a month together, mostly virtually, though, that we do retreats together, as a group, and love talking to each other. What are you seeing out there in the world?

Not just investments. It could be what's your own practice? What's going on with you? Well, there's a great retreat that I went on together. And these are, you know, this is Randall Mays. It was CEO of Clear Channel, you know, in the borderline of nation. You know, this is Austin who's got a publishing

anywhere. As Herod, who's one of the big infrastructure investors in the world. This is a significant people who are trying to go down this path of self-examination. And that's what gives me heart is that there are so many people who want to do that, who want to find a way to start learning and connecting and finding that thing they can do

to lower my goal in life is to lower suffering in the world and to enhance joy. That's it. If you can lower suffering and enhance joy in doing a significant way, with others, that's another level. Well, that's great information. And one of the areas that I really love you invested in is consciousness, because one of the reasons I came up with passion struck, and it was something that came to me as I was doing mindfulness practice. I think all of our lives are enriched by the questions that we ask ourselves.

And for me, I can't ask myself, what am I supposed to be doing here on earth? And I believe too many people are disengaged in their own lives. Meaning I think people become spontaneously engaged. They go through the actions kind of like a pinball and a pinball machine where they're bouncing off things, but they're not truly consciously engaged in how they're going through the steps of their life and the outcomes that they want, that those conscious engagement moments are creating. So I love that that's an area that you're focused on. Another area that I loved is that you were focusing on youth in many ways. And I saw I saw that you're involved with the University of Virginia contemplative science center, which has a mission for younger students.

And I also think there's a tie into that first mindfulness experience that you had with this entity. So I was hoping you could talk about what they do, but also maybe share the irony of your first mindfulness experience and this organization you now work with. Yeah, happy to do it. I love the University of Virginia. I went there undergraduate and was chairman of the Board of Mod cello at Thomas Jefferson's home. And many of the things that UVA was on board there,

but one of the things I particularly love is over the last 12 years of chair of the Cont that UVA was aboard there, but one of the things I particularly love is over the last 12 years of chair of the Contemplative Science Center. And this is the study of mindfulness, meditation, body movement, social-motional learning models, do research around it. How do you apply that?

We have programs in Louisville, Kentucky, a seven-year funded model that took K through 12 programs in Louisville, Kentucky, particularly focusing on kindergarten through fifth grade and over a seven-year period showed what an integrated strategy of teaching twice a week for an hour at a time, mindfulness, body movement, health, and social motion learning to kids can do. In the result of that study, you're coming out of December, but it's very good and the entire

city of Louisville is launching that program to the rest of their schools. And so it's not only a K through 12, which is very important, it's also higher ed. And higher ed, the kids are showing up at significant suffering levels. They had a paediatrics nearest to Virginia just told me the other day that one out of 13 kids by the age of 21 attempt to suicide, which is a ridiculous number. And it is ridiculous. I think what you and I experienced when we were going up, I hope, but they're arriving now with the high levels of anxiety, depression, sexual violence, you know, issues, drinking issues, you know, worried about the world,

you know, not only is it the tough things that in the world about democratic change or maybe the global, the environment or the war or refugees or whatever it might be, but there is a whole set of issues that we might think are positive, like changing technology, you know, robotics, AI, and understanding genetic modification, and cyber currencies, and all these other issues, they don't know what to do with it. And so, literally, they've never been taught how to handle that anxiety comes out when you're addressing all these uncertainties. And what are show I do in life? And how do we connect?

How do you give them these social and emotional learning skills, which are employment skills? This is what businesses actually want, as people who can understand themselves, how to understand being a team and working together with others, how to understand how to be open and to listen and how to actually control your own ability so you can do an ordered approach to life and working better with others. So that's what we do. And that's what the goal is. We're building a center now called the Contemplative Commons, which a great friend of mine, Paul to your Jones, was on our board, his wife, Sonja, helped support. And that's going up in the center of the university.

So it's connecting all the different schools together because these skills are important, not only for academics, but for extracurricular, co-curricular activities, how you living with others in a space. How do we decrease the amount of people going to student health with extreme issues around these problems so that they can talk with each other? They understand what

peers are like. And guess where that building is now being built? It's right on the site that I mentioned to you that I was sitting on the grass doing my first meditation. And I didn't plan that at all. Literally, a camera in and said, this is where going, I said, you've got a kidney. That's exactly where I started. And so, I love growing that. And what else we have done that I'm really helping support is set up a flourishing academic network, which has 12 major research universities,

UVA is one of those, but also Duke and Berkeley and USC and Stanford and Brown and Northeastern Wisconsin and Colorado who are all sharing knowledge around these strategies to help their students, to help higher ed. And that's sharing. Boy is that unusual for multiple universities and schools to work together for those common issues, sharing curriculum and approach. That's a partnership. And it's really fun to be on those calls once a month that we start saying, what do we know work on together?

How do we share that curriculum? What's working for you? What's working for us? Because we all have that goal of bringing these skills to the higher ed world. So just another example of a partnership process that's trying to bring these together. That's embedded with

these kinds of self-inquiry, well-being skills, flourishing skills. Well, I was going to ask this question a little bit later on, but I think now might be the opportune time, and that is a lot of people who I know who are involved in philanthropy do it in a solo manner. And I think the collaborative approach you just brought up about sharing this information about universities leads me to question, how do you get more philanthropic individuals to become a community similar to what Bill Gates is trying to do? It seems like what you're trying to do even the way that you're investing in these companies. But do you have any tips on that?

Sure. We've been exploring that for a while and written some pieces on that. My last book, The Geronstein Networks About. Lowering those walls between donors and doers. It's understanding that we all have something to offer. And they actually were all afraid to partner with someone else. And so not only is it hard for a social entrepreneur to go to someone and say, can you help me do this?

Can you help fund me? But that person on the other side is afraid that they're gonna be treated just like money or they're going to be treated you know as someone who they have to be put up with and reported to as opposed to becoming their partner. And that person is afraid of what their spouses are saying or what the other world will say if they make a bad investment. So the strategy that we've come up with that seems to work with many others is to build these collaborative partnerships. And I cheer also another social change group, venture film philanthropy group called New

Profit. And we help start up Teach for America and Teach for All and Kip Schools and a whole bunch of other things over the last 20 years. And we look at these collaborative models and say, how can we take businesses, individuals, foundations and collaborate on a problem like workforce? How do we train more people and upskill them more effectively and more cost effectively? And we can do this better if we work together. And we did an X Prize, we brought Walmart,

and Mary-on, and Lumina and a variety of others together because they actually wanted to take the employees and give them an upsteal them. And if they got jobs in another company, that's a success. So whatever that is, let's have a strategy that everyone wins from. And they can share these strategies across companies, across individuals, and new profit are bored. We have private equity guys, venture guys, but we all love working with each other,

and hearing from Wendy Cop, about what she's been doing and teach for all. And so starting to figure out and set up these philanthropic support groups is a winning strategy. We did that in malaria. We've done that in community health. I have a partnership with the last 12 years to bring community health to Africa. And over the last three years back to the United States, it's a set of philanthropists who we just love on Thursdays at 10 o'clock, again, zoom with each other and talk about what we're working on with our team. And we have a small team that we help fund of people that I call catalysts.

These are orchestrators. These are people that help unify different parties together for a common cause, like ending the external area, like cutting in half maternal deaths in New Jersey and others. And when you do that, people want to be around it. You start understanding the marketplace better. You start understanding the influencers that could affect your problem more effectively. You're not trying to, you have solutions and innovations that come to bear, but you're not backing any one particular solution. You're allowing those multiple solutions to come together to figure out what really works in a local, local city, local

state, whatever they might make it. So you're not telling them what they have to do. You're making these resources available to you. And that's actually my last article in Stanford Social Innovation Review is all around locally driven and network supported organizations. People that are those network supporters that help share that knowledge to local actors who really understand what it takes to change in their account.

And that's what's happened with community solutions, where they've driven homelessness down to near 0 and 14 cities, where they build partnerships homelessness down to near zero and 14 cities, where they've built partnerships with the governments, with the local businesses, local foundations and others. One, it's much more effective than the single solution where a philanthropist will go and say, I have the answer. It just hasn't worked. not the single NGO nonprofit that you're going to back. I'll give you all my money and then you'll just grow. Kip schools is wonderful, great organization, but it has 250 schools. There's 100,000 schools in America.

How do you take those ideas from Kip and bring them out to the world? And that's what a network support opportunity is. So yes, philanthropy is changing. It's learning from its itself, hopefully, it's finding others who can be passionate about a common problem you can work with. There's lots of good examples of those, and it's how to breed more people who are these orchestrators, catalysts, who help unify the action and unify that approach to solving that common problem.

I think this is a good segue into I happen to see recently you spoke and an event down in Miami and you brought up the conference at the conference, the difference between being a social entrepreneur and being a system entrepreneur. And I actually thought when I heard this concept, the light bulbs went off, including what you just talked about because I love this concept of acting locally, but getting funded globally or impacting globally. I think it is a great way to think about operating where you can start having world impact, but doing it at a local level.

So can you explain for the audience what you mean by social entrepreneur to system entrepreneur? by social entrepreneur to system entrepreneur? Sure. There's a woman, a professor at Kennedy School at Harvard, Julie Batte-Lana, who wrote a nice piece in Stanford Social Innovation Review, which said, to have systematic change, you need three different types of groups or parties. What are innovators? And we have a lot of those. Those are great NGOs and nonprofits that are out there creating these new ideas. You need disruptors or organizers who are able to bring together

people who want to change the system. And so they're a little sand in the system so that the system says, I got to change. And then you need these orchestrators in the system so that the system says, I gotta change. And then you need these orchestrators, these system entrepreneurs that actually can look at things and say, how do I do a market map as to who cares about the same problem? What influences are out there? What, how do I measure change? How do I set a roadmap up to do that

and unify all these different actors to come together? So we in schools and from my tips have been funding a lot of social entrepreneurs doing that kind of work like creating Teach for America and it keeps schools and those are awesome. There is a set of people who are these disruptors and organizers which are awesome, but there's fewer of these catalysts, these orchestrators, these individuals who are trained to be managed ego, to understand how to bring together people. And so Ellen Agler at the end fund

has been over the last 15 years pulling together all the different stakeholders to end five neglected diseases across Africa. And she's been hugely affected by setting up you know country focused activities to unify the Gates Foundation and the Global Fund and local foundations and others but also found you know in each of the locals those local philanthropists those local government leaders that can do the work. But you very very effective. She is a model.

And I can show you in slavery, there's Nick Rono who's been that catalyst and that orchestrator, we can show you the individuals who I would point to and say we need more of them. And so can we go back to our programs, whether MBA programs, a policy programs,

or just in general and say, that's a valuable skill. You know, we don't need everyone to be, you know, an orchestrator, a catalyst, but, you know, if I were a philanthropist, I'm focused on a particular problem. One of the first things I would do is try to find some individuals like an Elinagular who could be that catalyst. Who can help us understand all the different opportunities

that we have to leverage our resources in our network, rather than me trying to figure out by myself, which NGO I'm gonna put money into and the hope that that has the impact we wanna have. Yeah, I think that's a great perspective and a completely different way to look at this. And I know when you left your civilian career, you got involved with the UN and became the vice chairman of their envoy that was dealing with things such as malaria.

How did that come about? And was it something you sought out or did they seek you out? So it was one of my gurus who's actually very much in deminefulness and meditation, Ray Chambers, he retired at 46 after in bidding leverage byouts. He became an amazing philanthropist. And he and I worked on a project called Millennium Promise, which focused on development

and subsequent Africa, villages. project called Millennium Promise, which focused on development in the Sub-Saharan Africa, villages. And during one of those tours, Ray, I was lucky to be with Ray, and we went through a world food program camp in Malawi and saw these little babies and Ray said, gee, you know, they're sleeping. You know, they're not nice. And the person said, no, they're in malaria comins. And we came back through later that day and asked, you know, where are they? And they said they died.

And so at that moment, really in particular, became committed to figuring out how to bring solutions to the malaria quashed question and problem. And in half of the deaths came from kids that were 0 to 5 years old. So over a 10-year period, he through Gunning Jeff Sachs connected up into Secretary General of the UN and set up a unit there that focused on these collaborative catalyst models, orchestrated models around malaria, created malaria and a war, which is an awareness program that created

awareness in the United States of malaria, and thus from it from 20% awareness deck to almost 70% over two-year period, funding came,, we did return on investment models around bed nets and using bed nets to prevent mosquitoes from getting kids and others at night, and dusk, and dawn. Very effective strategy. So, decimal area have come down by a million a year over that last 10-year period, which was rewarding and rate take the lead there. I also specialized there in the community health sign. And so I became vice chairman with Ray on community health

and worked a deeply in Africa helping unify these catalytic strategies to bring together different government governments, give training and leadership training to ministries of health as well as finance, look at financing models there, look at return and investment. So it's applying all the skills that we've had and all my partners, Inglas Saul and Austin Hurst and last mile health and a whole bunch of others in USAID to go after that common problem about how do we have someone who cares for you?

And so each person on the world, in my opinion, ought to have somebody who cares for them. And so community workers and community health care workers are those that are living in the villages themselves. And now we've been applying this over the last three years back to the United States. And our group, our group, which is called CHAP now, Community Health and Celebration Partnership, is bringing those skills and tools to the United US, faring out ways to unify business strategies, whether it's Walmart, CBS, and Walgreens, whether it's the Public Health Administration,

whether it's primary care, how do we disagree individuals who are supported, who care for you, might be your mother's, your brothers, might be your doctors, your nurses. How do we have somebody in your community that always is aware and can connect to, that make you healthy? And so that's community health,

and that's how it's started with you in, and that's how it grew, because of our partnership, and our connections with others to here come here in effectiveness. Well, that's a great story and we absolutely need it in the United States in our health care system, more today than ever. So I applaud you for that effort. This whole concept of what you're doing This whole concept of what you're doing brings to this concept that I read about you bringing up and it was the concept of system mapping. Map out who cares about a particular problem, what partners you need, etc.

Can you talk a little bit about that because I think you just gave a great example of it when you described your work with the UN. Yeah, it's tough to look at global warming and decide what you can do. And so, the Pew Foundation looked out and said, how do we build with these philanthropists that we know who are interested in global climate change, and particularly interested in the oceans, what we can do. And so they set up a collaborative after they understood that what are the levers of change we need?

How do I map who cares about those oceans? And what can we do this potentially most affected? What they decided to do is prevent trollar fishing in millions and millions of square miles of the oceans. And when we do that, the fish come back. And over the last 15 years, they have with Bush administration, the Obama administration, and over 50 countries

changed laws because they stepped back and they said, who cared about the same problem? And they found philanthropists that did. They found that there's local leaders in each of these countries who are fishing, local fishermen, who are like being devastated in their employment because these trawlers were coming in and taking their fish from them were natural partners. So they lobbied each other governments to say we need to stop this. And so it was hugely effective because they stood back and said, what are the levers that we need to do?

And what maps can we make of those people who care and those organizations who care about the same problem. Same can be said, you know, in democratic reform, there is a market map as to instead of one candidate calling you late at night, saying, give me money, you know, let's figure out all the different ways that we might be able to affect the democratic process. And so we have a group leadership now project and they did a market map which said here there's 501c3s, there's 504s, there's independence, there's hard money, there's state level candidates, and so it allows you to understand the different levers so that instead of you just trying to back one candidate or if it's certain candidates, your friends all know, you could say, if I wanted to affect voting rights,

or if I wanted to affect open disclosures or whatever I wanted to affect, I can find others who care about it myself. And I can find these great nonprofits that working on it together, this great other strategies that we work on with others. So that market map is a helpful tool. And it's called influencer map as well.

Who are the other influencers that are out there that might have the effect? And then you find other partners that could be helpful that you can work with rather than telling you here are all the answers. So those mapping processes that open awareness, this asking, it's listening skills, you go about as you're trying to solve a problem

rather than jumping into the answer. Yeah, what an incredible philosophy and way to look at the problem in a completely different way. And I think your analogy of looking at global warming was a great one. I happen to see that documentary see conspiracy and I didn't realize how much our aquatic

degradation is having on the demise of coral reefs and, you know, the almost eradication of some of these fish life that are there trying to get certain molecules out of the system. And when you break down that whole ecological ecosystem, it's having huge ramifications. So I think what you're talking about here and trying to get plastics in the fishing industry to completely change the way that they're doing their accidental kills is a huge issue that

needs to be solved. So I appreciate you bringing that up. I did want to use this as a way to lead into this new book that you're writing. I understand with two colleagues. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, English saw until I met Gum, English is a great partner of mine in the community health area and also written articles together. And Tulane Montgomery is Coastal EO, a new profit and really specializes in proximate change and bringing these local views so that we understand, you know, what we can actually accomplish at the local levels and build up from that. So the three of us are working, you know, on this idea around you can't fix the world alone. And that's kind of a book. We're doing a series of articles and

hopefully you continue to talk on on podcasts and others about these topics and interview people who are doing that kind of collaborative change, doing those systematic change models together. So studies of stories, I think that moves people. And that's why I found it a profit. And others, rather than the theory of system change in these models, let me give you a story about how Nick Rono is doing this and slavery or how we're working on windy cop doing Teach for America called Teach for All to the World and how she's learning from the world and coming together. So let's interview those people and let's do stories of how they work so that people see

and have confidence that that's possible and how we do it at that most local level so that when we are able to create these peer, to peer organizations and allow people to learn from each other? There's one called Work Money, which is allows people to work and talk to each other about, how do we, how do I survive life? You know, how do I finance my own existence? How do I get health care? How do I share because you know, gee, I have a low income on average, people and members there, you know, sitting there going, we're in need and we're in need to help each other. And this is, you know, a bipartisan strategy. It's 45% Republican, 25% Democrat, and

rest of Independence. And they're all just sharing this knowledge with each other. And so I think that's the kind of opportunity we have in this bipartisan strategy to unify people and use tools like a work money to build people's capabilities to talk to each other rather than talk at them and allow them to build their own local change agents and models. And to be that network support unit allows them to share that knowledge and share best practices with others. And so it's finding opportunities like that to my mind that are highly leverageable. And when do you expect that book to come out? It'll probably be in about a year or your class, we're still gathering those stories and the world is changing quickly, which is awesome.

And so more and more people like McKenzie Sky who did a big funding allocation, it's hard to start to fund these kinds of system change models. As opposed to the past, they were saying, no, I wanna do a fund, you know, an aid strategy, or I wanna fund, you know, one particular aspect on homelessness, and you're saying there is actually tools and models that allow us all to learn how to address a lot of these problems you need to invest in that and invest in people that can be trained around that.

So they're starting to do that today, and we're hearing more and more stories and we're collecting them. Okay. Well, I'm going to take this in a completely different direction, but it's a topic I wanted to talk to you about. I happened to look at one of your most recent LinkedIn posts and it happened to be an article about how the VA is treating veterans with basically mind altering drugs for PTSD. And as we talked about before the show, this is something that I'm extremely passionate about, both this and traumatic brain injuries, because the symptoms so overlap each other. And I'm involved with a foundation called the Warrior Angels Foundation, which is actually working on how do you treat traumatic brain injury through the use of holistic medicine,

hormone therapy, but now their other vertical is helping to understand how do you treat PTSD through psychedelic drugs. So it was a person who's gone through cognitive behavior therapy, processing therapy, prolonged exposure therapy. And as you're going through those things, it's extremely painful because you're having to relive, especially PET, the event again and again and again. And in my case, when you've had a myriad of events,

it's kind of difficult to work with. But why is this something that you've taken an interest in? Yeah, and I hear you in the pain you've gone through in particular, in many of our honored veterans have experienced those kind of pain and cannot understand how to manage it. And they're now finding tools that are more effective than just talk therapy to allow people to understand how to address PTSD, to understand how to address PTSD, manic depression, it actually applies to alcoholism and addictions and a variety of other experiences.

And so understanding that there is a way to address those problems and then figure out ways to, sorry, connect these drugs, Sorry. Connect. These drugs, ketamine, MDMA, LSD. So there's a number of philanthropists myself included who have supported groups like maps, doing research with MDMA, which is ecstasy in three applications with therapists.

This is not randomly doing it. This is not at a party drug level. That doesn't work. And how do you include mindfulness in that approach? So you understand how to process more effectively. When you use these drugs, Kedeman is already legal. MDMA is going through the FDA right now, and it's finished phase three trials,

and it's doing one final phase three trial before approval. We guess approval will be in 2023. LSD is doing being researched right now. And these are all major institutions. This is Johns Hopkins, has a center, Harvard has a center, UCSF has a center. And so it's taking the science from which was a hippie kind of culture in applying science to it

and finding out how you can potentially use it. These are non-addictive strategies. These are strategies that allow what it seems to happen under FMRIs is your brain. There's a place called the Diffot Moon Network, which goes quiet. It allows youth, then, to access other parts is your brain. There's a place called the Default Mode Network, which goes quiet and allows you to then to access other parts of your brain that you didn't want to access before

or were incapable of doing that. It allows you to then experience things with lower anxiety levels so that you can walk through those experiences with a therapist and allows your brain to reprogram itself. It's, to my analogy, it's like taking the computer, rebooting it, allowing your brain to kind of like saying, oh yeah, I need to go in a more normal setting.

And so as we allow that setting to take place, what do I learn from that? And they have found 60 to 70% of those with PTSD have major improvements after a three episode regime over a month period. They find that with alcoholism, they're to current tests, not through phase three yet, but that there is 60 to 70% of people with aqua-alism have significant diminution in alcoholism, effective traits, the same one thing with depression. So these are just tools. All they are as tools, you don't continually use

them. That's kind of the problem with some of the drug companies that's going, well, I can't make a pill that everybody takes once a day. No, it's like three times, four times, five times. That's it. And so you process that and you do it with a therapist. And you integrate mindfulness, you integrate your own self-employed practice so that stays with you.

And so all of that, it's important that you have others to help you through that process. But I think it is potentially revolutionary in the way we treat people who have these problems and these issues. So I'm happy to help support that kind of science and support of it so that eventually, it'll be legally available to other people.

Well, thank you for that great explanation. And I have a lot of veterans who listen to this podcast, who've reached out to me on many different topics as being one of them. So something I will definitely make a micro video of as well so we can get that message out. Now, I wanted to end with three or four fun questions for you.

The first one is, is there a motto or personal mantra that you have that you use throughout your life? It's minimizing suffering and enhancing joy for others. It just stays with me. So yes, that's it. OK. And University of Virginia calls you up and asks you to do a commencement speech. What would you give it on? It's how you can partner with others to make the world, you know, the better place that you want it to be.

Well, that would be a great topic and one that all graduates need to understand as that is becoming more and more important in us having a world-centric view of how to solve societal issues. Is there a favorite book of yours that you would recommend? Yeah, I love books. One that changed my life at 13 years old was Childhoods and by Arthur C. Clark.

And it talked about, you know, the world was in an extremist place and that people finally figured out how to take the breath and do some self inquiry and work with others to rise up to make the world a better place. So that was a good one for me. Okay, and then the last question, and I think that book, I've read it. I think it had something to do with extra terrestrials as well. So it's been a long time since I've read it,

but a great might be one I have to go and reread. But the last question is kind of a segue into that and I love that to ask this question. I've interviewed a few astronauts on the show. One of them will likely have this opportunity. She's on the ISS right now, Caleb Aaron. But the question is is if you were one of the astronauts who was one of the first to land on Mars, and you were given the right to put any law that you could into place, what would it be? I love space.

My dad worked on the Apollo program. Yeah, I watched all the liftoffs. So it's one of those things where I'm sad I won't be able to go to Mars. But if I did It's not you know the law it's gonna be a practice that you have to listen before you leap and To my mind that's something many of us still need to work on So that's why many of us still need to work on. So that's why I would spend time thinking about.

Well, I think that's a constant work in progress and all honesty. Would you, if you gave a number of the ways along this episode, and I'm be sure to put them in the show notes, but if someone wanted to learn more about you or contact you, I know you're very discoverable through Google, but any recommended means. Yeah, my link to Insight is you can go there,

you know, always message me on that. And you can find out more if you want to bebaclaborative.com. It's the bridge builders site. And you can see the different people that are involved and a little bit more about me. Well, great. Well, I was completely humbled to have you on the show today and thank you so much sir for giving your time. Thank you, John. It was really fun.

What an amazing episode that was with Jeff Walker. It was even better than I hoped it would be. And I hope you feel the same way. We talked a lot today about many different books that Jeff mentioned, including the generosity network which he co-authored with Jennifer McCray, and I will put all those resources into the show notes so that you can look up those books and purchase them through the affiliate links that we have on the site.

And just a reminder, any of the affiliate links that we have go directly to help supporting the show, so we don't have to ask the audience for money and it keeps the lights on here. So thank you for supporting the show and those who support us. I also wanted to talk about suicide prevention, something that Jeff brought up during this episode, because in the past year there were over 46,000 people who took their own lives in the United States alone, and over 800,000 globally. And there's so much we can do for that suicide, including the use of omega-3s,

which we learned about from Dr. Michael Lewis, who studied the impact of omega-3s on traumatic brain injury. And as a side found that over 80% of the victims of suicide had low omega-3 rates. So that's a great episode for you to check out if you haven't done so before. And if there is a person like Jeff that you would like to see me interview, question that you have that you would like to see me answer or topic you would like to see us discuss, you can DM me on Instagram, and John Armiles will hit me up on LinkedIn at John Miles. Now go out there and live better, be better, and impact the world. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our show is to

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