Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Katie Higgins Cook On Becoming the First Female Blue Angels Pilot and Reinventing Yourself EP 20

Starting point is 00:00:00 monetary or financial safety and security is absolutely something that you need to consider when you're looking for a job, but take a breath, right? Don't jump with the first opportunity if it's not an ideal fit. If you have the freedom to kind of rely on your savings a little bit while you're doing the transition out, because I think something like 80% of veterans quit their first job within the first year. It's something insane because we are jumping at the first opportunity and it just isn't a good fit. Welcome to the Cash and Struck podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:33 My name is John Miles, a former combat veteran and multi industry CEO, turned entrepreneur and human performance expert. Each week, we showcase an inspirational person or message that helps you unlock your hidden potential and unleash your creativity and leadership abilities. Thank you for joining us today on the show and let's get igniting.

Starting point is 00:00:56 Welcome leaders, entrepreneurs, visionaries and creators of all times to the PassionStruck podcast where it is my job to interview my achievers and get from them the habits, the values, the changes, the alterations, how they overcame obstacles, change their mindset and unlocked their passion-driven life. And I've got some exciting news for you. In addition to now being rated one of the fastest growing podcasts in the world and ranked in the top 2.5% globally. We have also brought 10,000 downloads a few weeks ago. And I am so excited and thankful for all your support.

Starting point is 00:01:34 And I wanted to do call outs to those of you in Wyoming, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Arizona for carrying a huge part of that load. Thank you for watching or listening to the show. And if you would like a specific topic or guest, please DM me at Instagram, a PassionStrike podcast, and give me who you would like to hear what topics and I will do my best to get them covered in updated shows and reach out to those guests

Starting point is 00:01:59 to see if they'd be willing to come on the show. For our Blue Angels pilot, John Foley said, glad to be here, those four words meant something very special the show. Forner, Blue Angel's pilot, John Foley said, glad to be here. Those four words meant something very special to me when I was a Blue Angel. It was our mindset. It expressed our joy, our warnness, and our readiness to form at the highest levels.

Starting point is 00:02:16 It was a statement of our love, our commitment, our trust, and our respect for everyone on the Blue Angel's team's pilots and crew alike. Each time a member of Blue Angels said, glad to be here, a special bond was reaffirmed and strengthened. I've known John for nearly two decades, and I know for a fact that they still say,

Starting point is 00:02:36 glad to be here in the Blue Angels games to this very day. And it's that mutual respect that they have for each other, that that statement has so much power. And today, I am so excited to bring another member of that team, Katie Higgins Cook, someone I've known for a few years now, who is going to give you such a powerful interview today about how she became the first female Blue Angels pilot, and now how she is transitioning out of the Marine Corps and into civilian life. So many lessons from her today about inspiration, about her time in combat, about her time in

Starting point is 00:03:12 the Blue Angels and what that meant to her, how she transitioned from that and the legacy that it's carried on in her life. You're not going to want to miss any of it from her time at the Naval Academy to becoming Marine and so much more. But let me tell you a little bit more about Major Katie Piggins' cook. Katie grew up in subrenum park Maryland and attended the United States Naval Academy and later graduated from Georgetown with a master of arts degree in international security. She attended TBS becoming a Marine Corps officer and earned her wings of gold a few years later.

Starting point is 00:03:46 During her time on active duty, Katie deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom as well as a deployment to Africa in support of contingency operations. Katie joined the U.S. Navy Blue Angels in September 2014 as the first female pilot in the history of the same demonstration squadron. She served as the Aviation Safety Officer followed by the officer in charge of the C-130, actively known as Fat Albert. Her decorations include two maritory service metals, five air metals, the Navy and Marine Corps achievement metal, and various personal and unit boards. She currently works as a director of sales strategy

Starting point is 00:04:27 for global public sector at Salesforce. Katie is married to another Blue Angel alumni, former major Dusty Cook, United States Marine Corps, and they have three children. Now, let's get on with this awesome interview with Eddie Cough. Welcome again to the Passion Start podcast. And we are so excited to have with us today, Katie Higginscook. Thank you so much for joining the show.

Starting point is 00:05:03 I'm so happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me. This isn't the first time you and I have spoken but it's the first time we've actually met on camera so I'm so excited to get to do this with you again and the first time I got the opportunity to interview you your interview turned out to be the largest viewed episode that year that I had done on both business. And just so you know, I mean, that's with interviews that we put up with people like Jack Dorsey, Jim McKelvie, Satya Nadella,

Starting point is 00:05:40 Keith Broch, Darren Ormell Cristle, and you had more views. So I'm so glad to have you here and you obviously have a huge fan club and I can understand why. Well, thank you so much and to be in company with people like that, I still is extremely humbling. But just like you said, I have an awesome fan base, if you will, that follows me on social media and stuff. And so I'm glad that they could see the work that we had before. And I'm sure it'll be super excited to see this podcast as well. I'm going to get into it.

Starting point is 00:06:20 So the purpose of PassionStrock is to help growth seekers overcome their fears and unlock their hidden potential so that they can live the purpose driven life that they want. But everyone has a starting point before they really start their journey. And so what I wanted to start with you is, you know, I've read that you grew up in Savannah Park, which is not too far away from the Naval Academy. But I myself grew up not too far from the Academy. And I remember visiting it when I was a young kid and being scared to death because of all the yelling I would hear and I would tell my parents, I can tell you absolutely where I am not going to go to school. I ended up going there. So I'd like you to start with, you know, you're in high school and you make this, you know, decision to go to the Naval Academy, which is not an easy one because you're signing yourself up for,

Starting point is 00:07:15 you know, the next 10 years of your life. What was going on at that point? What made you make that step? So I am really blessed to be from a multi-generational military family. Both my grandfathers were pilots in the Army Air Corps and then eventually the Air Force. My father was a Naval Academy grad Navy pilot. So growing up I was very close with my paternal grandfather. His family actually immigrated to the United States from Sweden. And his family basically went from nothing to upper middle class in one generation because he did 20 years in the Army Air Corps, right?

Starting point is 00:07:54 And so he really stressed this idea of service and giving back to this country that had given so many opportunities to my family. And so I didn't know if I was going to be a firefighter, police officer, and you know, eventually I even considered the nunnery at one point, but I wanted to have children and they tend to, you know, proud upon that. So ultimately I decided to kind of follow with my father's footsteps. And that was early on in my high school career, maybe freshman year. And so everything that I did in freshman year was tailored towards making myself look competitive for the Academy, getting involved in clubs and sports and grades and SAT scores and all that stuff. But you know, it was still a bit

Starting point is 00:08:34 intimidating because I knew that I was not just signing on the dotted line for the next four years like a normal college student. I was I was signing on not only for four years, but for a five year commitment minimum after that. And if I decided to stay in, I was a 17 year old kid making a 20, 25 year decision, right? And it was a bit intimidating. And everyone who, I had a pretty easy time in high school. I was a nerd, I was a valedictorian.

Starting point is 00:09:04 I also was a competitive swimmer. And so it really wasn't until I got to the academy that I had been challenged and experienced failure really for the first time. And I was experiencing it alone, right? I didn't have my parents, I didn't have my brother. So it was, it was definitely daunting. I can tell you on my day, my dad actually cried, not because he didn't think I could do it, but because he remembers what the Academy was like in the first or second class of women. So he was, he's terrified for me,

Starting point is 00:09:39 but obviously it turned out for the best, but it was, it was definitely a challenge. Yes, well, one of the people I think I told you about before who I've also interviewed is astronaut, distinguished graduate, Captain Wendy Lawrence, who when I was at the academy was my physics instructor. But she was in the second class to go through. And could you imagine being in the second class that went through and your father was a superintendent? No, I couldn't. Like, and my father's good friends with with Wendy Ward's. And so I've actually met her before, which is awesome. But I could not imagine having your dad as a super infinite, you already have a spotlight on you, but that's probably how she rose to greatness and overcame so many

Starting point is 00:10:32 obstacles to become an astronaut. So what a wonderful example that she is for women like me. Well, it's a good segue because you and she ended up taking similar paths after getting out of the academy. She went in the Navy, you ended up taking a, what I think is a more difficult path than becoming a Marine Corps officer, but she became a pilot because she knew, in her case, that becoming a pilot was key to someday becoming an astronaut. And in your case, what caused you to make that service

Starting point is 00:11:14 selection? And at that point in time, when you made it, why did you pick Marine Corps aviation over Navy Aviation? for aviation over Navy aviation. So I would say I was most greatly influenced by the Marines that I was introduced to over my summer training. So for those that don't know at the Naval Academy, over the summers you can go to a submarine or ship

Starting point is 00:11:40 or you can even tag along to a squadron sometimes and all the Marines that I had been exposed to were extremely professional, were extremely knowledgeable in their job set and their MOS as we call it mission of specialty. And I just felt like they were dedicated and to these principals of, you know, on our courage and commitment that motivated me so much to go to the academy. And so I knew that I wanted to leave those types of people. And so my decision to be a marine

Starting point is 00:12:10 really came before I decided that I wanted to be a pilot. So when I did my service selection, I actually put marine air, marine ground, the Navy air. Obviously being a pilot is something that I was passionate about because my grandfather did it, my father did it, and it was something that I was obviously very interested in. But being a Marine at the time was more important than flying if I had to make the choice. Luckily, I got to do both, right?

Starting point is 00:12:39 Be a Marine pilot. But I can tell you, I felt adversity like right from the beginning. As soon as I selected Marine Court, there were classmates of mine at the Academy telling me like there's no way that I was going to do it. But Chessie Polar would be rolling over in his grave or you know even more bullying than that. Like oh someone's going to throw a grenade in your tent because they're going to be a parable off there., it got to be like pretty bad bullying for me. And,

Starting point is 00:13:09 you know, I just took that upon myself to prove them all wrong, right? And I went to the basic school, which is our six month course that all Marine Corps officers have to go to. And I'm not saying it was a cake walk at all. I did pretty well academically and in my end, that's which are two big things that we do. But I definitely struggled with some of the physical aspects there. I'm small, smaller, you know, in stature and so carrying a 70-pound pack is not easy, especially if you haven't done it a lot growing up. And so on the weekends, I took time to literally wear my pack and walk on a treadmill so that I could, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:46 make myself better and overcome these kind of shortcomings that I had so that I could prove all these people wrong. And so, yeah, it was a challenge, but it was something that helped build resiliency in myself, helped fortitude and just gave me a boldness that I would say that I didn't have. Choosing Marine Corps was definitely deviating from my family passes. We were a Navy family, my dad was in the Navy. So the Marine Corps was what I saw as the harder way as well and I wanted to do that and I wanted to show people that I had had the capability of doing that. I'm third generation military myself, my, my grandfather was actually a pilot, but was in, but was in, he was an army officer in the airborne division initially, and then ended up because of his degrees, getting recruited to go to Fort Detroit,

Starting point is 00:14:50 where he was part of the programs that were going on there. And then my father is a combat Marine, and he ended up being a frogman in the Marine Corps. So when he came into the service in 56-ish time frame, they were just restarting Force Recon. And so there was no Force Recon schools, so they sent them to UDT school. So he was, I believe, class of 16. But, you know, I would say- Did he get to where the Triton? Did he get to where the Triton? No, he does not. Oh. All the my friends who are, you know, who want to buds and our seals, you know, have great

Starting point is 00:15:30 respect for what he did. And so I think that's a great story. And he went on to serve in the Korea War and then early stages of Vietnam War where he ended up getting, unfortunately, injured doing his job, but nevertheless, he told me a lot about what it was like going through Marine 4 boot camp, and went both into the Naval Academy and then became a Marine, were the fears you thought you were going to have to overcome the same fears that you ended up having to go through or were they different? I would say that for the most part they were the same. And it's because I would say I have always been, I would say a strength of mine is introspection. I try to do a lot of introspection and acknowledge

Starting point is 00:16:34 where my actual shortcomings are. And so I knew going into the basic school that I was gonna do well academically, but that I was going to do well academically, but that I was going to struggle physically. And so I think that that was pretty, it matched my kind of expectations, my fears did as, and then, you know, the subsequent actions I had to take to overcome those shortcomings that I had. At the Naval Academy, I would say it was a little bit different. I was always good at academics. And that was the first place that I actually like ever failed to test. I ever had to get tutoring or anything like that. It's a bit harder than people. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, like I said, I was valedictorian in my high school class. And so I had pretty good assay fee scores. So I wasn't a dummy or anything like that. And so, you know, coming into the Naval Academy, I thought I was gonna coast through again

Starting point is 00:17:35 and just learn, you know, leadership lessons and how to be a good officer, you know. And instead it was struggling, especially my plea beer, chemistry kicked my butt, I was happy to move on to physics. But yeah, I would say that was a fear that I didn't have that was kind of blind sighting, right? And I would say that those are the fears that are harder are the ones that come out of

Starting point is 00:18:02 nowhere, right? The ones that you already kind of have in the back of your mind are gonna come to fruition. You're preparing yourself You're preparing your fortifying yourself for that to happen worst case scenario, right? It's the ones that you're not prepared for that you're then you're like scrambling to make a plan to figure out how you're gonna go over get over these shortcomings or these you know obstacles in front of you, But I would say, Naval Academy was harder in that aspect. And I think what you said there is very true is that when you're looking at the reality that you're facing, there's things that are right there

Starting point is 00:18:40 in front of you. And then as you start to peel the onion, so to speak, different obstacles or hurdles will come up. So for the listener out there, what's piece of advice you would give them for facing those, you know, fears or obstacles that come out of nowhere and what did you do to overcome them? And so I get this question sometimes and I always say the same phrase and that's calm seas don't make a skilled sailor. And so it's not those easy times in your life right? It's not the calm seas that smooth sailing where everything's going the way that you want it to that shape you

Starting point is 00:19:18 as a person. It is those obstacles those fears those times, those failures that shape you as a person, that shape you as a mom, as an officer, as a doctor, a lawyer, whatever you plan to do, they shape you, and how you deal with that failure is going to decide if it's going to wreck you or it's going to fortify you. And so I would say you need to take every hard shift or you need to take every obstacle

Starting point is 00:19:53 as a learning opportunity. If we go into everything surrounded with fear, then that's not a very enjoyable life to live. If you go into every situation, even if it's a daunting with and view it rather through a lens, and it may be kind of a rose-cold lens, but view it through a lens of a learning opportunity than anything that comes out of that, you can put in your toolbox for the future. Even if I fail, hey, I messed up these three things, I'm not going to ever do that again, and I learned fail, hey, I messed up these three things, I'm not

Starting point is 00:20:25 going to ever do that again and I learned from this experience. Or I did these three things really great. I'm going to repeat that in the future. And so viewing things not as a potential to fail, but viewing things as a potential to learn is a mindset that you can change and is really critical, I think, to overcoming hardship or fear or obstacles. That is such a great point. And there are so many who get in this scrap where they don't take on an initiative or something laid out before them

Starting point is 00:20:59 because they think I haven't done it before. But the reality is, is with the internet and with the people you can get in contact is long as you're willing to have that willingness to learn. You can do it, you can overcome that fixed perception that you have and you can start saying yes to things that maybe today you're saying no, too. So I have to tell you a little bit of a story. When I was at the Academy, I did maybe a similar program you did because I was thinking about going Marine Corps. It was called Devil Dog. Not sure if they call it the same thing anymore,

Starting point is 00:21:37 but I remember starting it out, we went to Cherry Point. And we were with, for those of you who don't know, Cherry Point, it's where the air wing for the Marine Corps is and I was like, this is great. We got to go into simulators, I got to ride in a harrier. You know, an air wing is very much different in some ways from being a grunt in the Marine Corps. But in retrospect, it was a good introduction because when we went to Camp Le Jun, the next thing I knew, we were in an infantry platoon. And literally the second day I was there, we got to do a 15 mile force march

Starting point is 00:22:21 with the 70 pound sack. And at this point, I think it was my youngster or sophomore summer maybe I've got it wrong maybe it was junior but I was in good good shape I was a couple sport varsity athlete but going on a force march when you're not used to it I can't even tell you how sore I was the next day and my mindset the whole time was I wanted to quit so bad, but yeah, I did not want to let anyone know that I couldn't, I, you know, I just stuck the whole thing out and got this mindset that no matter how many blisters I get, things are going to get better if I can just make it through and I'll at least earn a little bit of their respect. Yep.

Starting point is 00:23:06 So you come out of getting your gold wings and you originally, you know, I think trained as a tanker pilot. 30s. Yes, that's right. And in the Marine Corps, our C-130s actually do a bunch of different missions. So, aerial refueling is part of that. But we also, you know, dropped people and things out the back. We call it aerial delivery. I was also on an aircraft that had health, fire, and grief and missiles on us. We do close air support as well, which is what I did predominantly on my first deployment. And then obviously we run cargo and things like that as well. So we do kind of a litany of stuff unlike the Air Force that is a little bit more

Starting point is 00:23:54 siloed and a mission specific in their squadrons. Okay, so as you were taking this path and then I'm going gonna ask you a question about your combat experience in Afghanistan. As you were taking this path along, did you have guides or mentors that were helping you kind of with your career, or at this point where you kind of on autopilot? Well, in the beginning, there is kind of a set path, right?

Starting point is 00:24:24 So in flight school, we go through the same path that you did with the aviation pre- and doctoration, the API, and then you go to primary, then you go to advance, then you get your wings, then you go to your first squadron, go through the FRS or the fleet replacement squadron, and where you get trained in your actual aircraft, C-130s, we don't have that arse is all in a sim. And so I went to our sim training to learn how to fly a C-130, and then checked into my squadron.

Starting point is 00:24:52 And then once you're into the squadron, all it is about getting qualifications, moving from 3P, which is a brand new co-pilot to 2P, which is an experienced co-pilot to aircraft commander. And then in there, you're also getting your specialized qualifications and missions that mission sets like basic instructor pilot or constructing night systems, instructing tactical navigation, all that stuff. And so there is kind of a set path that you go on. And I really didn't have too much of a Marine Corps specific mentor until I had done maybe my first or second deployment

Starting point is 00:25:28 and that's when I started having more senior officers like my old COs actually helped me decide what I wanted to do next and what was a good move for me. But I, as I mentioned earlier, am a military kid. And so I luckily had this example of an officer, great officer, and my father growing up. And so him being a pilot, even in a place like a common being like dad, this PAR, it's kicking my butt, what should I do? And you know, when we can talk pilots up like, oh, sets of, set your angle to this and try this, you know, it was just awesome to be

Starting point is 00:26:08 able to bounce not only flying things off of him, you know, but being able to talk officership and leadership and how to mentor people and how to deal with conflicts and all of those type of things. And luckily, I had that example growing up and I still have it today. So I'm very grateful for that. And so he's always been my mentor from the beginning. Did you know that Forbes Magazine recently cited that 70% of individuals who do personal development, masterminds, and one-on-one coaching

Starting point is 00:26:51 benefited from better work performance, increased communication skills, and overall better relationships. And we at PassionStruck are obsessed with self-development, coaching and mentorship. That is why we've created a free resource to help you unlock your hidden potential. Because people doing great things in business and life are just like you, only they've had a coach along the way. And we've got that covered too. Let us show you the systems and frameworks that we teach for both minded individuals to help them step into their sharp edges, execute on their passion journeys, and get predictable results time and time again. Go to passionstruck.com slash coaching right now and let's get igniting. So you end up getting

Starting point is 00:27:35 deployed to Afghanistan and when I read your about you, you have about 1,400 flight hours in the military, but over a third of them are in combat. So, you know, for the listener who's out there, who, you know, many listeners will be veterans, but for those who are not, how is, you know, being deployed and being in the combat situation different than normal day in squadron. So I would say obviously the stakes are a little bit higher in combat because there's obviously someone who doesn't want you to be there while it when you're flying friendly skies it's you know a little bit more laid back. In both environments, there's things I could kill you, right? Accidents happen all the time, unfortunately.

Starting point is 00:28:29 And so you have to be on your guard in both cases. But I would say in combat, there's no turning the mind off. There's no, hey, the day's done, I can go home, sit on my couch and veg and watch TV, right? Because you could be in your can or your rack, if you will, and a missile attack comes in, and now you're putting on your flacking, you're going outside and getting your bunker. So there's no turning your mind off in a combat zone. There's no truly relaxing.

Starting point is 00:29:02 You could do some fun stuff, and don't worry, I binge watched wrestling on my first deployment and it got me through it. But you're always kind of on on your guard. And the stakes are so much higher for the people that you're supporting. When you're in country, you know, it's all, excuse me, when you're at home in garrison, you're running parts for people or you might be giving gas, but you're at home in Garrison, you're running parts for people, or you might be giving gas, but you know it's in a training environment, right? Like, accidents can still happen,

Starting point is 00:29:33 but no one is dying from enemy action. Obviously in combat, especially when we were on our close air support missions, like even now talking about it, the adrenaline starting to go in my body, or I think, because you, when someone reads you a nine line and you're getting ready to shoot a missile at, at some bad guys that are pinning down American forces, like, you can't fail there, because that's someone's dad and brother or sister or mother, you know, and, and their Americans, and that's why you're an aviator is to support those people on the ground, and that's how we fight

Starting point is 00:30:08 as a Magtap and the Marine Corps, and so to be able to do that was my greatest achievement, I would say, in my career, was to be able to help those people on the ground, and so that's really the difference is the stakes are so much higher in combat. Yeah, I kind of agree more. And I've had a number of different experiences, but you know, I'll just bring one of my own. I happen to be on the USS Kid, which is now the decommission, but was a, I told it, they call it the Iatola class because we were going to give four disorders to Iran and then ended up not doing

Starting point is 00:30:46 the deal. So they always carried that name, but they were a bit more sophisticated than at that time, the sprue and destroyers. And we were off the coast of Bosnia at that time, as the Bosnian conflict and the Udofs, former Yugoslavia, and Navy had these OSA-1 aircraft that on the surface, you wouldn't think could do much damage, but they carried Russian scud missiles on them. And as I'm sitting watch in the CIC, all of a sudden we're lit up by not one, but two of these OSA-1s,

Starting point is 00:31:24 and all of a sudden, we get indications that their missile doors are coming open. I immediately declare general quarters and then it's as if time stops for a second because so many things are going through your mind. And at the time, I happened to be the cryptologic slash intelligence officer on board. And so the commanding officer comes in and says, you know, hence and miles, what do you think the intent is? You know, because we have either we're going to sit there and do nothing

Starting point is 00:32:02 or he's going to take action. And you know, I had to make an educated guess based on, you know, the intelligence we had been seeing. And I said, you know, I just went with my gut and I said, sir, I think this is just a show of force. And they're not gonna do anything and they ended up not doing anything. But, you know, what's running through your head is, you know, if we take action, we're gonna kill people on those ships. If I don't take action, people on our ship, they get hurt. But you're having to make life or death decisions in seconds, literally. And it's just hard to relate to people who haven't been in the military and haven't been in that dog fight. So, for sure. So you come out of, you know, these, these tours and you also did one in Africa,

Starting point is 00:32:51 something I share with you. I think we were both doing contingency operations when we were there. But how did you get this opportunity or how did the Blue Angels even get on the horizon for you? So I was actually on my second deployment in Africa. And to be able to apply to the Blue Angels, you have to have a certain amount of flight hours, or at least they like you to, you have to be an aircraft commander and all this stuff. And because I did my deployment to

Starting point is 00:33:30 Afghanistan, I got a ton of hours in a very short amount of time. And then I came home, I upgraded the aircraft commander and then I immediately deployed again on this deployment to Africa. And so because I did two deployments basically back to back, I had the hours that I needed to apply. And so the M1 or the lead fat Albert pilot at the time reached out to me, the social media, and was like, hey, would you be interested in applying? And of course, the spotty African internet that I had there, I uploaded my application and sent it to them. And then what's required of applying for the Blue Angels

Starting point is 00:34:09 is actually attending two shows. We used to call it Rush season. I don't think we're allowed to call it that anymore, but applicant season is where you'd have to go to two shows. And not only are you getting kind of a behind the scenes look of what they have to do every day, but you're also getting to know them and they're getting to know you because you know, you're on the road 300 days out of the year with these people.

Starting point is 00:34:28 And if you're a personality, don't mesh, then you don't want to be soren in their side or that they and you are as you know for that long. And so you really need to get to know the people and see if this is really what you want to do. And so when I came back from my second deployment, literally before I even saw my family, I did two shows back to back because the applicant season was ending

Starting point is 00:34:50 and there's the last two shows. So to be even eligible, I had to do these shows back to back. And then I went into Finalist Week, which is basically a week in July, during their Pensacola Beach show, where you get to know them and their spouses. You take a picture, your official photo in case you get selected, you get fitted for your blue suit and all the other stuff that you get. I mean, you get to know like the other people who are rushing. And so at the end you do a formal interview and then you go home and you call the boss on that Friday to find out if you made the team or not. So luckily I did and kind of

Starting point is 00:35:28 the rest of history, but yeah, I wouldn't have even have applied if it wasn't for M1 at the time reaching out to me to apply. He knew me and my reputation in the airplane. I was relatively junior, you junior. I had pinned on Captain maybe two years prior, while most people who went to the blues were very senior captains if not majors already by the time that they went. Actually, two people that I know who have been on the team, actually pinned on Lieutenant Colonel while they were flying fat Albert. As you can imagine, I was very, very junior. And so I could have waited a couple more years.

Starting point is 00:36:08 I could have done a whole nother tour and then applied for the blues. But this M1 really encouraged me to do it. And so I did. And like I said, the rest of the history. Yeah, so I mean, that's fantastic. And being a first. So when you were going through this audition,

Starting point is 00:36:25 because that's really what it was, because it's so much of what you guys do, and I'll get into that a little bit, because I have a friend who was one of a soloists in the teams. It's so much of it depends upon teamwork and that bond that the team has together. And as you were going through this interview process, were you the only female who was

Starting point is 00:36:50 in the selection process or were you competing against other females as well for the solid? I was the only female pilot. There was no other female pilot during the finalist part. There was a F-18 female pilot earlier on in the selection, but she didn't make the finalist my year. I think she reapplied a couple years. She reapplied while I was actually on the team, and she got all the way to the finalist

Starting point is 00:37:21 and then wasn't selected. So there have been a couple women that have been in the pipeline, or have been almost on the team, but I was the only female pilot while I was being selected. Okay, and I've been lucky enough to get some rides in, you know, F-18s and F-14s, and it's a fun time,

Starting point is 00:37:41 but looking at some of your Instagram pictures, it looked like you got to get a ride when they were actually doing either a practice or a show, which must have been a completely different type of experience. Well, actually, so three months out of the year, January to March, we actually go to El Centro, California, and that's where we do all of our winner training. So all the new pilots do, they start out, you know, very basic and then they advance to the diamond and then they advance to the Delta,

Starting point is 00:38:11 which is all six planes together. But what some people don't know is our second year pilot, so number five and then whoever is the senior pilot out of two, three, and four, sometimes we'll fly people in the back. They usually are active duty individuals. And so, to be able to train having someone in the back, they would put the fat Albert pilots in the back during winter training to get used to having someone back there because imagine the type of G's that they're pulling without a G suit. They need to vocalize or prepare the person in the back. So, hey, G's are coming on now. Hey, do your Hick maneuver. Hey, we're going to be turning a full 360. And so, to teach them to start talking out loud

Starting point is 00:39:03 and preparing people in the back, we would be their guinea pig, right? And so if they tried to black you out because I didn't give you a warning, you could give them some feedback. So it was like, hey, next time, give me a warning. And so we were just kind of the guinea pigs when Fat Albert was in phase.

Starting point is 00:39:18 So she was in maintenance for the first part of the first three months that were there. And then we start our training and the back half. But yeah, so I got to fly all the time in El Centro, which was great. And then occasionally if we took all three pilots on the road and I wasn't flying the Fat Albert show, I would get to go in an actual show, which was great, too.

Starting point is 00:39:41 That's fantastic. Well, one of the questions I had is when you're seeing them perform, you think that this is this extremely sophisticated computerized thing that's going on. And my understanding from my friend and maybe it's changed is that they're doing a lot of these maneuvers by using a stopwatch that's in each of the planes or that's how they used to do it. So they do a lot of that for sure. It's not well I can't speak to the super hornet that is just

Starting point is 00:40:16 coming online this year. My experience is with the baby hornet or the legacy hornet but under the legacy hornet a a lot of it is visual. It is stopwatches. They actually pick points on the ground. You know, hey, the dick sporting goods or, you know, the Walmart or the water tower. These are like visual references for them. And they also visual references on each other, particularly

Starting point is 00:40:41 and anyone whose phone formation knows this. But you can line up like, hey, I'm going to line up my vertical stab with number two, you know, can of people or whatever it is to make the reference correct or the distance between them correct. And so they had these kind of, it's very, very visual for them. And that's unfortunately why there's an accident several years ago, where both with the Thunderbirds and with the blues, where multiple people are unfortunately killed,

Starting point is 00:41:13 because your wingmen are literally looking at boss, or looking at somebody else, not looking at the ground, because they're just trying to get visual references. And so, yeah, it's crazy that with all this technology and our self-capability and the cool stuff that you see with the F35 and the F22, none of that is going on in the blues. And they don't even wear G-Suits. They actually, to take some of the play out of the stick, they actually have a 45 pound spring that goes on to the bottom. And so they're doing like a 45 pound curl the whole time.

Starting point is 00:41:45 And that takes kind of the play out of it. It's crazy, the amount of strength that they have and endurance that they have. So it's pretty crazy. That's incredible. Well, the pilot I knew flew many years before you, it was gentleman named John Foley. And I remember him telling me that one of the main sayings that they had

Starting point is 00:42:09 for the angels was glad to be here. And I was wondering if while you were part of the team, that was still their slogan. And what that slogan really meant because I think this from a camaraderie and mindset that we're talking about is all wrapped into this saying. Yep, so glad to be here. It's still definitely used and generally it comes during debriefing. And so one key thing about the blues, if you don't know, is that we debrief about two hours after every show. And really in this debrief, you're calling yourself out on everything that you did wrong. And that's really key there is you're calling yourself out.

Starting point is 00:42:49 It's your introspection. There's no one else sitting there saying, like, well, you missed this and you did that. Yes, you have the guys who are at the cart that can kind of grade you, but you're the one in the airplane that knows, like, oh, I overbanked to 62 degrees instead of 60 degrees. Like, you're the one in the airplane that knows like, oh, I overbanked to 62 degrees instead of 60 degrees. Like, you're the one who knows that and you call yourself out about that. And so when you get all

Starting point is 00:43:11 the way to the end, you end your spiel with glad to be here boss or glad to be here. And I think sometimes you can tell like in a very heated discussion about whatever people can use it as glad to be here. You know, it can be kind of sarcastic or whatever, but you're recaging your brain at the end that being a blue angel, even the worst day on the blue angels, is still a privilege. I am glad to be a part of this team. I'm glad to represent those men and women who serve and are overseas. I'm glad to bring attention to those that are still serving when, you know, on the 24-hour news cycles, you know, people forget

Starting point is 00:43:58 that we still have forces in Afghanistan. We have forces in Syria and Iraq. We have people that are deployed on ships all over the world that can't be home with their families on the holidays. And so it is a privilege to wear this blue suit, fly this airplane at 40 feet off the ground at 320 knots and to be able to represent those women and the pride and professionalism of the Navy and Marine Corps. And so that phrase at the end re-cages your brain to say, you know, it is a privilege. Okay, well, thank you for that. And so when we last spoke, it was a few years ago,

Starting point is 00:44:34 and you had just pinned on major at the time. And we're, I think leading officer in charge of a base at this point, but you had made the decision to leave the Marine Corps. And so for the listeners out there, many who may be veterans, I wanted for you to talk about what was going in your mind at that point in time.

Starting point is 00:45:00 And before we get into making the transition, I wanted to go into what was your mindset about making the decision to leave the Marine Corps? So I would say it was probably the scariest thing that I had done in my life up to that point. And mind you, I have a lot of hours in combat. I have fired missiles and taken the lives of people, but that decision to get out of the Marine Corps was the scariest one that I had done. Because, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:33 I grew up as a military child, so my dad was active duty through the time I was at the academy. So, I had never been to a civilian hospital, right? I didn't know how to get health insurance, which is like these basic adult things. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up, right? What am I gonna do on the outside? What skills do I have even translates? You know, where do I wanna live? You know, it's so all of these things,

Starting point is 00:46:01 it was extremely daunting. Like how do I be a functioning adult if I'm not wearing a uniform? And I was scared of leaving a career that was promising, right? I maybe could have gone on to be a squadron commander, or maybe I could have gone to be a WTI. Maybe I could deploy again. I was leaving something that I knew I was good at to completely reinvent myself

Starting point is 00:46:33 Into an uncertain future and the decision that drove me or the factors that drove me to actually get out where my children You know when I was on the blues when I deployed all that I was you know alone and unafraid I didn't have people that relied on me and so now I had two children on Acciduty when I was the commander of NWSS271, the air operations company commander at Accid71. My two children back to back there. I just recently had my third child about six years. Congratulations. Thank you so much. But I knew if I was to deploy again,

Starting point is 00:47:02 now that I was a mother mother knowing myself and my shortcomings by doing some introspection that if I was to deploy in the manner that I had been previously that I would not be able to compartmentalize effectively at that point, right? I needed to focus all my time and attention on my marines and the mission at hand while I was deployed and that's not fair to my children because I would be ignoring them and then on the flip side if I'm worried about my kids all the time in a combat film that I'm not mission focused in that kind of people at risk and so I didn't think that anyone would get the best version of me at that point. I still wanted to serve, I still love my country, I still love flying, I still love the Marine

Starting point is 00:47:48 Corps, but I needed to be more involved in my children's life than I was having the opportunity to do. Now, don't get me wrong there, some amazing parents that are active duty out there, there are single moms and single dads out there that are able to do it and more power to them. And I respect them so much and they must have an amazing support system to be able to do that and to support their child. And I just, my heart couldn't do it to my kids. And so I decided to transition out. I'm still a reservist though. And I've been, I can happily say that I am really enjoy the time that I have with my children that I probably would not have been able to have if I had stayed active. Okay thank you for that and I know when I was getting

Starting point is 00:48:36 off active duty and my circumstances were a little bit different because at first I had been given the opportunity to become a special agent with the FBI, but unfortunately that got curtailed due to some congressional funding issues. And literally overnight, I was left in a situation where I had to find a job and didn't know where to start. And for me, if it wasn't for back in the day, we had this like that thick of a document that had all the service, all the service academy graduates name in it. And I just happened to call a woman who was at Booz Allen and luckily, she brought me in. But the transition was just horrendous from my recollection.

Starting point is 00:49:27 And so I wanted to ask, you know, now that you've been through this and, you know, initially, you were going, you were doing an energy company and now you're with Salesforce, but what advice do you have to transitioning veterans about the process and what you might do differently. So the process is not easy. So when someone's struggling in the process, they need to know that they're not alone. Right? I think that's why we have such high suicide rates. Unfortunately, among veterans, they think that they're unique in their circumstance, and they are not, they absolutely are not. Even someone who is successful or has some notoriety in my case, I struggled. Yes, I did go work for an energy company for a very short time. It wasn't a great fit. And then I restarted the job search and ultimately landed with this amazing company that I'm with now. But I would say one of the hardest things is figuring out what you're

Starting point is 00:50:32 worth, right? That's really hard to figure out because the military or the Congress tells you what you're getting paid at each right? When you go out and you try to translate what you did as a marine to civilian speak on your resume You like do I am I worth what a Lance corporate gets paid or am I worth what a major gets paid? I don't know, you know, and so that's that's a really difficult conversation and in the civilian world a lot of things around money and Compensation are either Fopal to talk about or they legally can't. And so getting some direction there is really hard and it really comes from networking and getting some advice from people who have gone before you. And then the other part of it,

Starting point is 00:51:15 I would say is, even though I just went through this spiel about money, is money isn't the end all be all. And I fell into that trap and I think a lot of Marines do and a lot of military does. Is there literally like, I don't care if I'm a custodian, I don't care if I work logistic, I don't care if I work the midnight shifts, I don't care, I just need to have a paycheck because I need to support my family.

Starting point is 00:51:41 And so I'm gonna take the first opportunity that I think is I could survive. Right? I survived three to five years at each duty station when I was active duty. I can survive anything. But that's the beauty of being a civilian. If you have a lot of freedom to decide your own adventure, right? The Marine Corps, not so much,

Starting point is 00:52:03 that my detailer tells me where I'm going or my monitor tells me where I'm going. And so I would encourage people, yes, a monetary or financial safety and security is absolutely something that you need to consider when you're looking for a job, but take a breath, right? Don't jump with the first opportunity if it's not an ideal fit. If you have the freedom to kind of rely on your savings a little bit while you're doing the transition out, because I think something like 80% of veterans quit their first job within the first year.

Starting point is 00:52:36 It's something insane because we aren't jumping at the first opportunity and it just isn't a good fit. And so that would be my first recommendation. My second one is that DRS and these transition classes are not great resources a lot of time. And so networking, LinkedIn, find other people that have gotten out that you knew from your service, networking can get you referrals and to certain companies that you want to apply for.

Starting point is 00:53:08 You can reach out to these people like how is the company culture? Should I even apply for this job? So networking gets you so much further than just randomly sending your resume out online. That's definitely my second recommendation. People who are transitioning overall are one of the main things that I end up helping with and veterans of course as well. And I think some of the points that you brought up are great ones. I think so often we're in a panic and a rush to make a decision because once you make that decision, those months go by in a flash before you're actually getting out. And so, in many cases, I try to start working with them then,

Starting point is 00:53:57 but if not even when they get out, I try to take a step back and really analyze what brings them a step back and really analyze, you know, what brings them, you know, passion in their life. You know, what are the things that they like to do? Because you, you know, most of the time, people leave companies because of the culture. And when you're coming out of the military, you're used to a certain culture. And I think that there are certainly companies, Amazon is one that do a much better job of understanding and hiring specifically veterans than other companies. So that's one part of it. But I see so many people get out,

Starting point is 00:54:40 they want to get an MBA, which I'm saying, not saying is a bad thing. Education is always good. But often, what they really want to get an MBA, which I'm saying, not saying is a bad thing. Education is always good. But often, what they really want to do in life and what that MBA and they're spending all this money to attain are completely different. And so, to me, I've always thought the starting point is, let's figure out what you're really passionate about, what were you really good at, and then how do you apply that? Because at that point, making the step to be an entrepreneur in some ways might be less risky than going into an unsuccessful job and the negative consequences of the mind that come with that.

Starting point is 00:55:19 And I'm so glad that you ended up getting into such an amazing company as Salesforce. You know, I think we've popped about it previously, but I, you know, I have been working in one way or another with the company for almost 20 years. And I remember having a discussion in the very early days, they might have been in year four or five with Parker Harris, who was one of the founders. And at this point, they had thousands of companies on the platform. And the CIA was putting out a contract because they were going to start using a cloud-based system. And at the time, I was CIO Adele, and he came to me for advice because we had government clients and I'm like, like Parker this is never going to work

Starting point is 00:56:07 the way you've got it architected because all your data is co-mingled in one shape or another and they're going to want a separate instance and he's like you've got to be kidding me he's like we're going to have to we architect the whole thing and they ended up doing the work and doing it and doing that and you now see, along with all the acquisitions that have been made, you know, how much that company has grown. So congratulations to you on that journey. Katie, before we get into the next segment, which will be a rapid round of questions, which I think you would thoroughly enjoy.

Starting point is 00:56:42 I wanted to ask, for those listeners who out there who want to learn more about you, or might want to hire you to speak for them, because I know you do a lot of speaking engagements, where can they find you? Yep, so thanks so much for mentioning that. My website is katieandcook.com, and that's k-a-t-i-e-a-n-n-c-o-o-k.com. So if you want to go there, you can see some of the previous talks that I've done, some of the different clientele that I've served, and you can reach out on the website there if you're looking to have me come to any of your events.

Starting point is 00:57:22 I can also do virtual events as well. And yeah, I look forward to supporting it anyway that I can. Well, thank you so much. And I'm going to go through a series of quick questions. And I would like the first thing that comes to your mind. OK. The hardest thing about being a mom is

Starting point is 00:57:47 bodily fluids. If you could meet one person alive or dead who you've never met, who would it be? Sally Ride. You somehow were on the mission to Mars crew and one of the things that you were able to do you somehow were on the mission to Mars crew. And one of the things that you were able to do once you got there was to establish one law that you could put in place, what might that be? I would say it would be protecting,

Starting point is 00:58:21 establishing protected groups of people from hiring discrimination. So gender, race, sexual orientation, pregnancy, handicap, whatever it is, having establishing a law to protect people against hiring discriminatory hiring all the way in the beginning. So when we start building it up we're good. Okay well you've accomplished so many great things but everyone has a kryptonite. What is yours? My kryptonite is sweet particularly the fun study cake from public. It's my favorite. And I'm not sure you can even get that where you live now.

Starting point is 00:59:06 No, I can. So I'll have to check that out. Now that you've lived in Texas a little bit, what are three words that describe Texas? Huge, obnoxiously prideful. I think that's two together. So if you want to count that as my three, obnoxiously prideful and huge. Okay. And what was it like the first time you were on

Starting point is 00:59:39 fat Albert and got to do that explosive takeoff? What one word describes that? We actually didn't get to do the that explosive takeoff. What one word describes that? We actually didn't get to do the JDo takeoff because all those bottles were destroyed in a hurricane. But the first time that you do the low transition, I would say is hyper focused is what it feels like because you're literally flying at five feet above the ground.

Starting point is 01:00:07 And so you can't let any of the like bad stuff creep into your mind. So I would say I was hyper focused the first time I did it. And your favorite type of music to work out to? I like high tempo pop music like the top 40 or something, but it has to be high tempoed or I get distracted. Well, Katie, thank you so much for being on the show and I really appreciate you doing this episode and thank there's so much here that the listeners can learn from and also look to you with aspiration for all that you've accomplished.

Starting point is 01:00:48 And I think we're just at the starting point of what you're going to accomplish. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I had such a great time and it's great to connect with you again and I really appreciate all of your listeners out there taking the time to entertain my story. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Eddie Cook as much as I did. Well, does she not disappoint so much to unpack and learn from her? And in the future, I have more inspiring guests just like her coming on the show. I also have some great solo episodes coming up. One on the power of choice and why it is

Starting point is 01:01:27 so important if you are a leader and entrepreneur, creator or a visionary, benny type. Power of choice can make the difference between succeeding or failure. And I know this personally and I've seen it happen again and again through the choices that we've made. I want to thank you all again for making this show such a success and I would ask you to please if you love one of these episodes, please give us a five-star rating, please send this to your friends and you can always DM me on Instagram, a cast and track podcast, follow us on Facebook on my personal page there or you can contact me on LinkedIn at John Aramiles.

Starting point is 01:02:07 I appreciate your support so much, and you are making a huge difference to helping us make passion go viral from millions worldwide. Thank you, and I can't wait for you to join us on the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our show is to make Passion Go viral. And we do that by sharing with you the knowledge and skills that you need to unlock your hidden potential. If you want to hear more, please subscribe to the Passion Start podcast on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast at. And if you absolutely love this episode, we'd appreciate a five star rating on iTunes,

Starting point is 01:02:47 and you sharing it with three of your most growth-minded friends, so they can post it as well to their social accounts and help us grow our passion start community. If you'd like to learn more about the show and our mission, you can go to passionstruck.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, look at our tools, and also download the show notes for today's episode.

Starting point is 01:03:09 Additionally, you can listen to us every Tuesday and Friday for even more inspiring content. And remember, make a choice of work hard and step into your sharp edges. Thank you again for joining us. you

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Katie Higgins Cook On Becoming the First Female Blue Angels Pilot and Reinventing Yourself EP 20

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.