Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Laurie Singer on You’re Not Crazy: There is Hope for Those Experiencing Anxiety, Obsessions, or Fetishes EP 129

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on the Passion Struck podcast. Honestly, I don't think I would be in the business that I'm in right now. If it wasn't for my son's death, it's changed everything. And I feel like I've helped so many families now through my practice. And hopefully, even through my book now, but mainly my practice. And I guess that's my purpose. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles.

Starting point is 00:00:22 And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now,

Starting point is 00:00:58 let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone everyone and welcome back to episode 129 of passion struck, one of the top education and health podcasts in the world. And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly, listen and learn, how to live better, be better, and impact the world. I wanted to take this time to discuss a few of our recent episodes in case you miss them.

Starting point is 00:01:23 Last week, I interviewed Rob Greenley, who was one of my podcast idols and one of the foremost authorities on podcasting in the world. He's an inductee into the podcast, Hala Fame, and also was the former chairman of the podcast academy. We also had on 12-year-old animal activist, Kate Gilman Williams, who is using her platform

Starting point is 00:01:44 to create a worldwide movement around saving animals. And just yesterday, we had on Liz Foslin, who is from the duo behind the best-selling book, No Hard Feelings, in the wildly popular Liz and Molly Instagram. And during that interview, we conducted the official launch of their new book, which just released yesterday, which is titled Big Feelings, How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay. And lastly, my solo episode from last week, which we call Momentum Fridays,

Starting point is 00:02:13 was on how do we actively unlearn fears? Please check them all out if you hadn't had a chance yet to listen to them. Now, let's talk about today's guest on the show. Laurie Singer is a licensed psychotherapist and board-certified behavioral analyst who heads the successful Laurie Singer Behavioral Services in Camarillo, California. She uses integrated behavioral and cognitive therapy strategy to help those facing mental health issues. Laurie also recently released her first book titled,

Starting point is 00:02:45 You're Not Crazy, Living with Anxiety, Obsessions, and Fetishes. Laurie is an experienced and decorated endurance athlete, competing in more than 100 marathons, and many ultra marathons in Iron Man triathlons. And today we discuss how she developed that early passion to compete in endurance challenges. What it was like for her to be indoctrinated into the Hall of Fame because of that endurance career she's had, why she believes that anyone who is stuck can become unstuck, how she develops plans that helps individuals gain confidence by achieving their goals that they set for themselves. We discuss the strong scientific evidence and

Starting point is 00:03:25 understanding that our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are highly interdependent. How she helps those who suffer deeply from anxiety and its manifestations and so much more. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin. Laurie Singer, welcome to the PassionStruck podcast. I am so excited to have you as a guest today. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here. I wanted to start out with something that we both have in common and that is we are both long distance runners. How did you first get into running and competing in long distance sports? I think because of my ADHD I tend to just jump into everything without thinking about it which just worked out really well for me in a lot of my life and the choices that I've made because I don't think about things. I just do it. Oh, you can run a hundred

Starting point is 00:04:29 miles really. Okay, I'll do it. And then I trained for it. But running has really been for me. I actually, I actually didn't start running until I was asked to join the cross-country team at junior college at the junior college level when a scout was scouting the races, the local races in the area. I started running after the birth of my first daughter. And then after my son passed away, I was just kind of in a fog. And the cross country coach for Oxnard College asked me to come and run. And I was scared because I barely graduated high school. I almost failed at a high school. And running taught me how to structure. And so I was able to go back to school. And I ran

Starting point is 00:05:20 cross-country. I became the captain of the cross country team, and I actually graduated Balladictorian of the junior college, which is amazing because I had to start at the baby math level. I could barely do anything. So I think they're running, it taught me how to structure, it taught me that I could, it built up my self-esteem, it built up my self-esteem in many ways, and built up my self-esteem, it built up my self-esteem in many ways. And I can't tell you how to influence my life, even with the death of my son. When he was in the hospital, I would go out on the balcony and I bring my jump rope. And while other parents were either smoking cigarettes or whatever they were doing out there, I was jumping rope.

Starting point is 00:06:01 You know, while I could, if my, you know, my husband would give me a break, I would go jump rope for 30 minutes and come back in. So it was, it was my therapy for a long time. And still is, actually, it still is my therapy. When I attended junior college, I was still juggling, grieving over my son, trying to raise a daughter with, at five years old, is when her brother died and trying to help her through that. And then at the same time, I miscarried twins in, you know, with all of this going on. But I just really think that the running gave me balance no matter what. I was able to go back to that and it's that feeling that I don't even get with anything else. As

Starting point is 00:06:53 far as, well, you know, I do endurance biking as well, and now I'm into backpacking long distances. So I just say, I never stopped. Well, out of all the challenges that you've done, and you've just listed a whole bunch of things that the majority of people don't do, what has been the most challenging out of all the competitions that you've competed in thus far? I think it's hard to say, well, I know when I ran my first 100 mile run

Starting point is 00:07:30 in a race, it was unbelievable. For me, it was unbelievable because you're getting ready to, you have to do it in a certain amount of time or you don't get a belt buckle. That sounds kind of silly, but that's what you don't get the award at the end. And so when you're getting ready to cross,

Starting point is 00:07:52 it was just very emotional for me. Oh my gosh, I just completed 100 miles in the time frame. It would had to be under 30 hours. And I think it was like 29 hours and 30 minutes or something. But whatever it was, I completed it. And you know, it's interesting is that it's almost like the first time I ran 50 miles, it was very emotional. The first time I ran 100 miles, the first iron man I ever completed, I think it just gives you a sense of, well, I can really do this.

Starting point is 00:08:22 It's mind over matter, mind over matter. And it's amazing what you can accomplish when you just set your mind to it. Well, I had a podcast guest almost a year ago on the podcast. Her name is Cindy Hooper. And she lives in Ottawa. And her triathlon story, to me, was one of the most amazing ones I've ever heard. She did the Whistler full triathlon while still on chemotherapy and three months after undergoing Whipple surgery for pancreatic cancer where they removed a third of her pancreas, half her stomach, and her bile doc, along with other things. And to me, just the willpower to

Starting point is 00:09:10 be able to do that in that condition is truly remarkable. It's that mental toughness. But that's actually a catch 22 because sometimes we want people that compete or participate in long distance events where your threshold to pain is so high, it could not serve in your best interest as well. I know when I had to qualify to get into the Hunter Morrowind Western states, which is like the Boston Marathon of Hunter Milers. And at my old 12, I snapped my ankle one way way and then I snapped it the other way. I was so

Starting point is 00:09:47 disappointed because I was running it on my son's birthday. So it meant a lot to me. And then to have snapped it both ways, I went to the aid station and they said, you're never going to finish this race. And I just started falling because I have to do this. I've worked so hard for my son. And one of the volunteers there could see how much I meant. And he said, you know what? Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to wrap up your ankle and you go as far as you want to go. And that's what I did. I went another 31 miles on a double fractured ankle until I just couldn't do it anymore. And they had to drag me out the course, take me to the hospital. That itself is another remarkable story of your mind can do so much.

Starting point is 00:10:33 I'm gonna do a segue. And you've brought it up now a couple of times. But when your son was two years old, he was going through a tremendous sickness and unfortunately lost his battle with it. And I'm very sorry to hear that. A loss of any child is traumatic, especially one that young. But I wanted to ask, how has that event changed the course of your life and what you're doing today? change the course of your life and what you're doing today. Well, it's an, it's interesting that you say that because, you know, I still have a hard time,

Starting point is 00:11:13 but I'm beginning to see now the bigger picture. My son, well, my son was perfectly fine until about two and a half months before his second birthday. And then he started crying and crying, and I thought, oh, he must have an ear infection. So I took him to the doctor and they said, no, he's fine, he doesn't have an ear infection. And then that night, again, he was just screaming, crying, I said, there's something wrong with him.

Starting point is 00:11:37 So I went back and I waited before, when they opened the door, what they found out after doing, finally getting him to take a MRI and all that. What was happening was he had a tumor and a stomach that nobody knew about, and it was actually crushing his spine. That's why he was crying, because his spine was being crushed. And so we found out that's what it was.

Starting point is 00:11:59 From that moment on, we pretty much lived at Children's Hospital in LA. Almost till the day he died, they told us he would have, he would paralyze and then they told us, well, you'll probably have a year with him. And I was really young at the time. I was 25 at the time and we had a five year old. So I, we were like, well, we'll just take whatever we can get. We just have a year. We're going to take a year, and we're going to spend time with them. But when we took him home that night, the next morning, he woke up, and he was saying, night, night, night, night, and we're like, what do you mean night, night?

Starting point is 00:12:37 And what was happening was that now the cancer had gone to his brain. So he went blind. And we had to, he went back to children's hospital and about two weeks later he passed away. And I, I wanted to give back in some way. I didn't know what to do. So I read the book when bad things happen to good people. And it's said in there, if you do some type of tribute

Starting point is 00:13:02 to your child that died, it kind of, it puts meaning into it in some way. So I was a runner and my friends helped me organize a run and I, with the money, what we did was we donated to children's hospital, but we, we wanted to buy the kids toys because when we were there, our son, there was only three or two VCR machines. We're back in the day, you know, the VCR. So everybody on the floor, all those kids, nobody could watch TV, because they didn't really have anything. They had no games for them, they had no toys.

Starting point is 00:13:39 When we'd bring our daughter, she had nothing to do there. There was like a Mr. Potato Head with one eye and a lip or something. And so we said, let's give all of our money to the kids' playroom. At that time, it was called the kids' playroom. And now we just had our 35th annual event for children's hospital and what we started turned into something much bigger. Now it's called the It's it's the children's playroom, but what they have there is they have therapists that work with the kids They have therapists that work with the siblings. I mean they have computers there. It's just amazing what they have At that at that unit on for a west in's hospital. And they wouldn't have had it.

Starting point is 00:14:25 We started it, which is unbelievable. And a friend of ours, unfortunately, her daughter had a daughter with cancer and was on for West. And we were able to see how much it helped her. So now, looking at the bigger picture, I can say, okay, this, maybe this is why he got sick. I don't know. I mean, I hate to say that he suffered so much.

Starting point is 00:14:49 I wish he didn't have to happen that way. But we're able to help all these families and all these kids. And honestly, I don't think I would be in the business that I'm in right now, if it wasn't for my son's death. It's changed everything. And I feel like I've helped so many families now through my practice and hopefully even through my book now, but mainly my practice.

Starting point is 00:15:13 And I guess that's my purpose. Well, I think that that is gonna be a great backdrop for the rest of today's podcast. And I'm sorry he had to go through any suffering at all. Well, I want to pivot from there to talk a little bit about your practice and specifically, what are the clientele that you try to help, especially using what happened with your son as a backdrop as the lens through what you do it. Initially, I was going to be a social worker because that when I was in the hospital and the kids were sick and I would see the families, that then they had warrants, by the way, we didn't even have our own room. We had to share a room with like three other families. Can you imagine? And we weren't allowed to spend the night in the room with the child. They would make us leave. But what my husband and I would do is we would sink back in and some nurses would let us stay,

Starting point is 00:16:09 other nurses would not let us stay. But I wanted to give back to the families because I saw how some of them are, we were lucky we had a very close family, my mother and father and my dad helped us as tremendous support. But some families didn't have that, and I wanted to know how can I give back? So I thought I'll work with families that have some type of disability or they need something in some way. And so I started working with kids with developmental disabilities

Starting point is 00:16:42 once I got my bachelor's degree, and then I wanted to go out on my own, and of course my ADHD, okay, I'll just get a license, five years later down the road with education, but it's all worth it. And so my first clientele was pretty much just with developmental disabilities, and anywhere from

Starting point is 00:17:06 age 2 to age 60. And then it started to build because I started to realize, well, more people started to seek me out and they were saying, well, I have anxiety or I have this OCD behavior and they didn't have a developmental disability. And I thought, well, let's try what I'm using with these individuals and make the program for you, which was the cognitive behavioral therapy and the behavioral therapy combined together. And it was very successful, very successful.

Starting point is 00:17:38 And that opened the door for just typical, neurotypical individuals that have a lot of debilitating maladaptive behaviors that they want to change. And then parents started bringing their kids in saying, you know, my child has severe anxiety or my child has obsessive compulsive disorder or whatever it is. And so I started working with neurotypical individuals as well. And my actually, it's interesting because now I even have clients, I have like five clients that are in their 70s, one just turned 78. I find that so amazing because they at this, and a couple of them have sent to me, I've tried

Starting point is 00:18:28 for so many years to find a therapist and nobody could really help me, especially with the OCD part of it. You know, there's always medication, but the OCD part of it, a lot of therapists or at least the ones that they tried to work with, we're not able to help them. And they, they're very determined and they made significant progress. So it's exciting. That is exciting.

Starting point is 00:18:55 And I wanted to spend a little bit time now that you introduce that. Kind of talking about some of the things that are going around in society right now, because I kind of wanted to ask you what you're seeing from your perspective. The part of the reason I started PassionStruck in this podcast is because I think a majority of the population today is living in what I call mediocrity and in service of self versus humanity. And I think

Starting point is 00:19:28 they're ground swells of people globally right now who are seeking higher wisdom and purpose in their lives. And they're on all extremes, rich and poor, progressive and conservative, young and old, but mainly more and more people, I think, are feeling lonely, helpless, disengaged, battered, bruised, whatever you want to say it. And in this moment in time, there's a deep concern overall for where society is heading, the erosion of our human values, the assaults of our attention brought on by, you know, the digital age and social media and the growing rise of materialism and, and ego mania. And I, I just wanted to see if that description is consistent to any of the things that you're seeing as well.

Starting point is 00:20:18 Oh, these things are, I'm not going to use, I'm not going to say out of control, because that's not going to do anybody any good, but I think there's a good news is that people are seeking help and that therapy is not such a negative term anymore where people are okay with going to therapy. And they want to try and get themselves in a better place. I, you know, I don't know. I, I've such a wide variety of individuals that I work with. Some of the elderly ones that I mentioned are their skin pickers. And I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's an OCD behavior where they pick their skin to where it's bleeding. I mean, their scabs all over.

Starting point is 00:21:11 And this is brought on by anxiety. And I think a lot, when we, I give them, they have to collect data on their behavior and find out what it is the triggers are. And typically the triggers are some of the social restrictions that are being placed on them now, or they're concerned about the future. Now this is people that are in their 70s, but this also happening with kids that I work with that are 10 years old and seven years old, where the social distance learning has isolated them. And one of them,

Starting point is 00:21:46 learning has isolated them. And one of them, in fact, when this in the first lockdown happened, he drew a picture of a tombstone and his name was on it. And because he was so depressed about the isolation. So working with him and that and trying to get him to focus on the positive and what are the positives helped him through that. So that's a younger one and the older ones. Then I have the adolescent ones who are so wrapped up in the social media. And more so because they can't,

Starting point is 00:22:14 they were unable or restricted in their socialization. They couldn't go to high school, they couldn't go to college. So what do they have? They have social media. So then they end up developing body dysmorphic disorder because they're taking all these pictures of themselves and placing them on the internet. And what if they don't get a positive reaction? Then they think there's something wrong with them. And they go into the self-harm or suicidal ideation. So there, I think if you break

Starting point is 00:22:41 it up, different age groups are suffering for different reasons. Does that make sense? No, it makes sense. And I think one of the topics that we aren't talking about enough is the idea of loneliness, because I think one of the things that we strive for in humanity is human connection. we strive for and humanity is human connection. But when you're in lockdown or restriction or forced to not be able to go to school or be isolated at school and other things, you've got this new bound loneliness that's expanded upon the loneliness that was there before because people are now trying to seek out human connection, but they're doing it online or an additional way. And in many ways it's not real. So what they're finding is it's

Starting point is 00:23:30 compounding the loneliness that they already have, which to me is one of the backdrops to why since 1999 in the United States, suicide rates keep rising 25% and above. And why that age group, I think it's 18 to 24 globally. The fourth leading cause of death right now is suicide. So it is a huge problem that has only gotten worse, I think, during these past couple of years with COVID. Oh, I agree. 100%.

Starting point is 00:24:03 100%. I, it's interesting COVID. Oh, I agree. 100%. 100% I, um, it's interesting because I, my husband, I went to a concert last night and sitting next to me, there was a gentleman. We all wore masks, but he had a double mask on and he, I don't know. I think there was an announcement that you have to wear your mask and we're all wearing masks and then he said to me, I had seven of my relatives die

Starting point is 00:24:28 from COVID. Now this gentleman, because it's an older man, he was probably in his 70s. And I said, oh, that's she bad, I'm sorry to hear that. I said, I work in the mental health industry. And we have a lot of individuals that are suffering right now from the isolation. In fact, we had a woman jump out a window and now she's paralyzed from the waist down. And he said, well, how can we don't hear about that? And I said, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:24:58 I don't know, but it is a big issue and it's a big concern. I worry about my grandkids. We will be right back to our episode with Laurie Singer. I would like to emphasize that this podcast is part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost information to the general public regarding had one lock and intentional life. And in keeping with that theme, I would like to thank the sponsors of today's episode. Our next partner has a product I literally use every day. I started taking athletic greens nine months ago because I wanted to achieve optimal performance and better gut health. And I can tell you it does that and so much more. I've actually noticed an

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Starting point is 00:27:26 Now, back to my interview with Lori Singer. I do too, and that's why as far as brands that I associate myself with on this podcast, I've specifically partnered with better help and talk space because I know for me, it took me years to deal with my own trauma and my own issues and you know as a result I reached a point where I was severely depressed, numb, you know felt apathy to the world and I don't wish that on anyone. So for me any way that I can make So for me, any way that I can make seeking a therapist easier and something that people will do, whether it's that or bringing on guests like you, I'm trying to break down this societal image where people don't want to get therapy because I think therapy is one of the most important things you can do for physical health, mental health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health, spiritual health important things you can do for your physical health, mental health, spiritual health, and emotional health.

Starting point is 00:28:32 Yet a lot of people try to avoid it because of the stigma. So what would be your advice? Your senior executive didn't think you had time for it. Worry to show the world that things weren't going the greatest inside you, but you internalized it. How do you seek out that help? Well, typically, I will talk to people on the phone first. When they are interested or they've heard my name, but I tell them that my therapy, which is true, it's very solution focused.

Starting point is 00:29:04 So I will listen to somebody's background because of course that's how you developed your coping mechanisms that ended up being maladaptive later on in life. They weren't healthy, but I would say that my therapy solution focused, you have to be involved in it, collect data and all of that. Then I write an individualized behavior plan.

Starting point is 00:29:34 And you have to want to change. I mean, that's the bottom line. What's going on in your life? Are you debilitated right now? Are you stuck? Do you feel like you're stuck? Because let's get you unstuck. Let's get you to move forward.

Starting point is 00:29:45 You can only be stuck for so long. Or is this the way you want to live the rest of your life? Because you have two choices. You can get out of this and I can help you get out or you can stay where you are, which would be a shame because you don't have to live the rest of your life like this. You have a choice.

Starting point is 00:30:00 And let me help you with that choice. And really, that's one of the reasons reasons why I wrote my book is because I have a lot of physicians in the area, whether they're pediatricians, dermatologists, psychiatrists, and psychologists to refer patients to me because they know that what I do works and I don't want to keep a client for a long period of time. My goal is to give you the tools that you need to help you through this so you can use them throughout your life. That's the way that I feel. Well, I think that's a great backdrop because I have spoken about this a lot on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:30:48 I did a whole episode on the importance of choice. And when people come to me and they say, I hear what you're saying on the podcast, I heard the stories that you've shared. And they come back to me and say, well, where do I start? And I always say, comes down to you making a choice.

Starting point is 00:31:05 Because all around us, there are choices that we make every day. And the way I like to talk about it is, I think, in our subconscious, we make most of these choices on autopilot. Where do you get your gas? How do you drive your commute? How do you drop your kids off for school?

Starting point is 00:31:21 You're routine in the morning. Where you shop for your groceries. But the most important choices in our lives, we also make on autopilot. And it's becoming intentional about those choices that you're making and doing something about them that I think makes the difference. So I think your whole point about choice is just something I wanted to highlight. And I think this is a great lead-in to your book, You're Not Crazy, Living with Anxiety Obsession and Fetishes. And, you know, I have a book coming out here in a few months, but I always like talking to authors

Starting point is 00:31:56 to hear, you know, what was the motivation, you know, that led you to write it? Well, it was mainly pediatricians and a couple of psychologists. They said, you know, Laurie, this stuff really works. You should write a book like a self-help book. And I thought, well, that's a great idea. But then once I, well, I started, I started the book initially probably five years ago, but then my mother got sick and developed cancer, which is a whole mother thing because I never even thought I would help my mother out anyway, because she abandoned our family when I was 10 years old. My mom was an alcoholic and a drug addict and left our family and my father raised all three of us. And so, if somebody would have asked me,

Starting point is 00:32:47 yeah, and so if somebody would have asked me, if somebody would have told me, Laurie, guess what? Your mom is gonna come back in your life when you're in your 40s, and you're gonna take care of her when she's dying, I would have said, that's not possible. There's no way that's happening. But again, here we go back to, I had a choice.

Starting point is 00:33:05 I had a choice to try and have a relationship with my mom. It would never be an ideal relationship. It would be the only relationship that we could have or I could ignore her and let her live on her own and how sad would that be. So I made a choice and I helped her and I reintroduced her to her grandkids, spent time with her up until she died. And you know every time that I saw her, the first words were out of her mouth were, I'm so sorry for what I did when you were young, I'm so sorry. So here she had to live with that her whole life. Is she still not, you know, up until the day she died, she probably regretted it, but, you know, we're all human.

Starting point is 00:33:52 We all make bad choices. Heres was a really bad choice, but then again, you know, that was her choice to leave us. It was very traumatic, which I didn't deal with until after my son's death. So talk about waiting to get there, be your help. Well, so for the audience who doesn't know anything about your book, can you just give a little bit more color commentary on some of the approaches that you take in it?

Starting point is 00:34:23 I have six case studies in the book, and each case study, it tells a story about the individual and how their behavior manifested. What stories struck me as success stories and unbelievable, because some of these patients that come to see me, you never know if they're going to follow through and come through the other side, and then the ones that do, it's just so amazing to me. You never know if they're going to follow through and come through the other side.

Starting point is 00:34:45 And then the ones that do it, just so amazing to me. Again, it's the human strength and mentality, the same as in sports, that if they have that drive and you're there to help them through it, they can come out the other side. So what I do in my practice, which is a little bit different, is I combine cognitive behavioral therapy and behavioral therapy. And the difference is that cognitive behavioral therapies is how do we change those irrational thoughts and replace them with positive thoughts?

Starting point is 00:35:16 Because it can be done. Our mind is very powerful. And if we can retrain our thought process, because our thoughts create emotions, and those emotions are exhibited through our behavior. So if we can change our thoughts, we'll change our emotions and then we will change our behavior. It really does work. So now that the behavioral aspect of it is how do we change our environment? Because our environment a lot of times influences our behavior. If we had a problem with alcohol, we probably would throw all of the bottles out in the house.

Starting point is 00:35:53 We wouldn't be working as a bartender, right? And we would want to surround ourselves with people who are sober, so that would be one environmental change. In my book, I put, what I do with each client, I put in the book. There's actually a workbook in the back of the book. And it'll tell it has a data sheet in there.

Starting point is 00:36:16 It has the visuals that I use because visuals is a part of how do you change your environment. You can have something on your wall in your office. It says, stay calm and think positive. And you look at that and you go, okay, I'm gonna do that. It's a reminder, right? It reminds us to do that.

Starting point is 00:36:34 And then how to write a motivational story? A motivational story is another, it's another tool that I have in my book and I use with my clients. When I gather information, I write a story specifically for them on how they can change your behavior and what that would look like for them. And in the book, there's a step-by-step on how to write your own story as well. And there's also a weekly schedule that you would fill out.

Starting point is 00:37:05 So I would give you, I would tell you, okay, read your motivational story in the morning. The signal plan, which I have in the book is based on just a signal, red means stop, yellow means make a choice, green means go, I'm gonna use a strategy, I'm gonna take a deep breath, I'm gonna think it's something positive. And things like this that sound very simple,

Starting point is 00:37:27 I work with doctors, pilots that have come into my office with OCD or some other behavior that they want to change. And some of them will say to me, well, this sounds very babyish. I don't even know if I should, you know, I don't see how this is going to work. And I say, you know, just give it a try. If you really stick with it, it will work. And it ends up that they follow it. And it works. They start to engage in a new learn behavior or replacement behavior. That's another thing I didn't mention that.

Starting point is 00:38:02 If you, let's say you're trying to quit smoking, what would you replace that behavior with, not food because we don't want you to get overweight, right? But maybe you would change the smoking cigarettes to chewing gum or going for a walk or anything else other than smoking. So you have a replacement behavior. Does that make sense, Sean?

Starting point is 00:38:20 It does. And I'd like your whole bit about motivational storytelling because the end of the day, our life is a story. We are storytellers in our own life and you've got an opportunity in it because you're the main character in it to either be the hero in that story or you can be the villain in that story and that choice is up to you. If you start viewing your life differently as if you were writing the story and someone's watching it play out, who would you much rather play? Because I'd much rather play the motivational hero than I would the debaulical villain. So I think what you're saying has a lot of truth to it.

Starting point is 00:39:01 the debonicle villain. So I think what you're saying has a lot of truth to it. If someone hasn't gone through CBT, and I guess cognitive processing therapy is kind of a subset of CBT, is how I would look at it. What I found when I was going through it that subconsciously, I had buried these mental thoughts that were pervasively impacting how I was living life.

Starting point is 00:39:29 And in many ways, they were causing me not to live who I authentically was, because I was hiding aspects of myself, because of these conditions that I was putting on myself. CPT, it's called stuck points, but really I was having these self-destructive thoughts, when you start backing into that statement, it seems ridiculous now that I look back because think of all the people in authority I have dealt with throughout my life who haven't done me any harm.

Starting point is 00:40:03 And so I was really caught in this subconscious stuck point that I would have dealt with years ago because until we started really going through some of the trauma I had experienced, I didn't even realize that subconsciously I was feeling this way until we really just started talking about it. So if you're not being real with yourself, nothing's going to change. But when I started really being real with myself and facing some of these inner demons, on the other side of it, I felt like this huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders. And then I went

Starting point is 00:40:38 through prolonged exposure therapy. And that was even more brutal because you're reliving a, you're probably your most traumatic event again and again and again. But on the other side of it, what I would tell people is that we all face trauma. You can either hold onto it or you learn how to let it go, but holding onto it is not helping you in any way. It's only making you a much less viable person. Yes, so that is very, it's interesting that you say that because I never, I didn't go to therapy until I was in my master's program at school so that I could get my license to become a therapist because I knew I wanted to practice behavioral therapy. So I thought, well, I guess I have to go to school to become a counselor.

Starting point is 00:41:30 And so much like you, in a way, I never dealt with my mom's alcoholism. And what I witnessed in my house was horrible living with the alcoholic parent and a drug addict at the same time, I kind of shoved everything deep inside me and never dealt with it. So when I did go to therapy to get my hours towards my masters, that's why I went to therapy, but then when I started telling her about my childhood, she just looked at me and said, well, that's not a normal childhood. And I said, oh, okay. And so that's when we started doing work together. And she dug stuff up out of me that I never thought I was going to deal with. And it's very difficult to, because you hide those feelings and emotions and events for

Starting point is 00:42:21 so long. And then to kind of get them out of you, it's very traumatic, I think. It's a lot to deal with, but at the same time, it's like you said, it's, as if you're wearing a backpack full of rocks and the backpacks taken off, and you just, there's a sense of relief. Yeah, I always kind of look at it now

Starting point is 00:42:43 that I was wearing a shroud where I had a mask on, where I was showing a different version of myself to people than what was behind the mask. Now that the mask has been lifted, everything changed. You feel more fulfilled in what you're doing, your confidence goes up, so many benefits to it. All that said, a lot of people have misconceptions about therapy so if you were someone listening to this podcast right now and you're completely on the fence

Starting point is 00:43:10 about doing this what are some of the misconceptions that that you've seen and what would you tell someone to do if they're sitting in that situation? Well I would first I would say if you can get it there because that's recommended to you, if you know anybody that recommends one or your doctor, because I think that is a big thing. You know, there's, there's bad doctors, good doctors, there's, you know, there's, and not everybody is a good fit for everybody either. Like I might recommend somebody to you and then you say, oh, that was a horrible fit for me. Why did you tell me to, you know, why did you suggest that Laurie? But I would go with somebody that maybe was recommended to you. And then I would ask yourself,

Starting point is 00:43:55 like a get, you know, in the beginning when I said, is this how you want to live the rest of your life? You don't have to. You don't have, you can be happy. Even if you're 70 or 80, there's still, there's years left in your life. And why wouldn't you want to? Why wouldn't you want to try to be a happier person, to live more contently? I don't know. That's the way I look at it. That's the way I would look at it. What's it going to hurt? I mean, well, you have to divulge some things that might be painful, of course, but I've just seen people come out the other side and so happy and so thankful that they made that change, that that's why I would suggest it. And listen, if you start it and you don't like it, it just means you're not ready yet. That's all.

Starting point is 00:44:46 That's the way I look at it because the tool is that you're just not ready. Yes, and I'm not a therapist. I'm not a medical professional in any way. I have taken antidepressants and other things that for me personally did more harm than good. But I am a true believer that if you do therapy and you work on yourself and you get your head space right and you're currently on that medication, there are paths for you to get off of it where you won't need it anymore.

Starting point is 00:45:18 Because that's how I am today. I'm happy I'm off of it because each one of those drugs has benefits and I'm not gonna say that they they don't but they also have side effects. And some work for some people and some don't. And I agree with you on that and some of my clients they come in because they don't want to take medication. And I tell them, you know, I could write you the best behavioral plan in the world. But if you are so anxiety written or you're so depressed, you will not be able to follow my plan that I've written for you. So, and if you're completely against it, we can try it without, but if you're not able to utilize the strategies that I've written for you, then we need to go back and rethink that maybe you could just start on medication once you maintain where we want you for a while,

Starting point is 00:46:05 then let's have you back off and take it from there. But initially, sometimes medication, you have to use it, not always, but sometimes. Sometimes a person isn't such a depressed state or anxious state that that is the intervention that's needed to allow them to do the other work. The analogy I use about therapy is, there was a time

Starting point is 00:46:25 where I felt like I had a brick wall in front of me and what I was doing was adding bricks on top of it and on the other side of therapy, there was nothing there and I got to lay new bricks down and build a completely new structure for the way I wanted my life to go because I don't think whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, there's any point in life that you can't make changes and you can't decide to make your life

Starting point is 00:46:55 different than how it's been because the past is just that and your future and present are completely different and valuable if you want them to be. are completely different and valuable if you want them to be. Absolutely, and I think sometimes if you get the right therapist, they, that's what they're there for. They're your support team. I think a support team is so important to have and to encourage you to stay on that, that new path. I think that's really important. And that's why I think this whole new science that's unfolding now around post-traumatic growth is so important because, you know, that's a great vehicle to use trauma to create

Starting point is 00:47:37 growth in your life. I mean, that's really what being resilient is all about is overcoming life's adversities and growing out of them to be a better person. I agree. And I think, you know, like you have some, you've suffered a lot of trauma in your life, but that's what's helped you and enabled you to help all these other individuals

Starting point is 00:48:01 that watch your show or that talk to you and call you or work with you, you have that empathy and that ability and you wouldn't have that if you unfortunately wouldn't have some of the trauma you experienced. No, I wholeheartedly, I didn't want to admit it at first. I didn't want to be vulnerable at first. Once you get the mindset that you want to help people, and you don't want people to go through the hell that you've been through,

Starting point is 00:48:28 it makes it easier over time to talk about it, to the point that I've recently had a podcast a couple of weeks ago with Andrew Marr, who runs the Warrior Angels Foundation, and he talks about coming back from his time as a Green Beret in Afghanistan and his whole life was falling apart. He was drinking throughout the day. He wasn't paying attention to his family. He was having cognitive issues, mental issues, depression, anxiety. And then he got help for it. And on the other side of it, he feels he's stronger now. He's ever been. But for a lot of people, if you don't take that point correction, that's exactly what's leading to people falling into despair and further going into homelessness and other things that we talked about.

Starting point is 00:49:14 Well, I wanted Lord to give you an opportunity, as we're nearing the end of the podcast, to tell the audience, and I will put it in the show notes. How they can learn more about you. How they can learn more about me. Well, I think and reach out to you if they want to. Yeah. Sure. Right. So there's the website for my book is you're not crazy book.com. So it's why you are e not crazybook.com. And you can email me from there and get in touch with me. And I'm always happy to talk to anybody that wants to reach out to me. So they can email me from there. I also have another website for my company, which is Lori Singer Behavioral Services dot com. And you can reach one website from the other. So either way, you can get ahold of me.

Starting point is 00:50:11 OK. And I always end the episode by doing just a quick rapid round of questions. It's kind of the first thing that comes to your head. So the first one I was going to ask, and it's one of my favorites, is what are five things that you can't live without? And they could be people, places, things. Okay, well, I would have to say, okay, it's funny, used to be my kids, well, my grandkids, I'll say family, I guess it would be my family. I love my family. And then it would have to be

Starting point is 00:50:48 running or biking. Any athletic event, I don't know if I could live without. And five things, that's a lot of things. Travel, I like to travel, new experiences, now that I'm in the backpacking, and the fifth thing would be my dog. Okay, well, those are a great five. Is there a personal motto that you tell yourself or advice that you live by? I don't think I'm not sure if I do. I just, I, I, maybe it would have to be trying to think positive and also that you can't control everything, which is a

Starting point is 00:51:31 hard, that's a hard one that you have, you know, we're all human and we just can't control everything. We just have to succumb and be flexible. If there was someone that you have never met before, whether they're deceased or alive, that you had the opportunity to have a cup of coffee with, who would that be? Somebody who's deceased or alive that I've never met, and I could have a cup of coffee with them. a couple of coffee with them. I think it would have to be, want somebody that I can have an intelligent conversation with, and maybe, I don't know how, I don't know if I could relate to him.

Starting point is 00:52:16 Let me think. Maybe Skinner on Behaviourism. Okay. That's what I'm using. Yeah, I've always wanted to meet Tesla. I just always think it would be such a fascinating conversation to understand how he could know all the things he knew during the time period he lived. And then the last one is I've had an opportunity to interview a number of astronauts on the podcast.

Starting point is 00:52:46 And so a fun question I like to ask is, if you got selected to the mission of Mars, and the world government said, as you went to Mars, you could establish an edict or a law or a way of living, what would be one thing that you would put in place? An exercise program. So physical health, okay. That's right, physical health, well exactly what I would do because I really think that our physical health influences our mental health. And when I work with somebody, I always make sure that that is in their weekly agenda,

Starting point is 00:53:24 that they do some type of physical activity because I really do think it helps. My morning habit is the first thing I do before I do anything is I do physical exercise. because I think it does so much to wake up the body, get your systems going, get your energy pumping, and I try to get a sweat early in the morning because I think it releases endorphins and other things helps you with cortisol and gets your whole body going. So complete believer in that.

Starting point is 00:53:58 Well, Lori, thank you so much for coming up. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say, and it sets a tone for the day. I'm the same way, you know? I mean, I think it sets a tone for the up. Yeah, go ahead. I was just saying, and it sets a tone for the day. I'm the same way, you know, I mean, I think it sets a tone for the day. You're out there exercising and sets a tone. It's a positive way to start the day. Absolutely agree. Well, Lori, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all your expertise. I know that audience is going to love this

Starting point is 00:54:23 and I really appreciate you doing it. I had so much fun. Thank you very much for inviting me. I appreciate it. Well, thank you again, Laurie. All right, take care. It was really nice talking with you. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Laurie, Specialist since I also have a bit of an endurance athletic background myself. And I want to dimension if you're new to the show or you just want to introduce this to friends or family members, we now have episode starter packs both unspotted I and on our website. These are collections of our fans favorite episodes that we organized by topic to make it so much easier for you to get acquainted to everything that we do here on the show. Just go to passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. And if you'd like to watch these in addition to listening to these episodes, you can check out our YouTube channel at JohnRMiles where we have over 270 different videos,

Starting point is 00:55:15 both long form content like today's and much shorter videos we call mindset moments, which are typically two to five minutes long. Please go check it out and subscribe. And lastly, we so much appreciate all the five star ratings you guys are giving to us. And if you truly love today's episode or the podcast in general, please consider giving us a five star rating. We have over 4,800 of them and they go such a long way in helping the popularity of our show as does sharing these episodes if you like them with friends and family members.

Starting point is 00:55:48 Now, go out there and live life passion struck. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our show is to make passion go viral. And we do that by sharing with you the knowledge and skills that you need to unlock your hidden potential. If you want to hear more, please subscribe to the PassionStruct podcast on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast ad. And if you absolutely love this episode, we'd appreciate a five-star rating on

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Starting point is 00:56:52 Thank you again for joining us. you

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Laurie Singer on You’re Not Crazy: There is Hope for Those Experiencing Anxiety, Obsessions, or Fetishes EP 129

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