Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Matthew Weintrub on the Psychedelic Origin of Religion EP 377

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

In this enlightening episode of the Passion Struck podcast, host John R. Miles welcomes Matthew Weintrub, a multifaceted healer, psychedelic activist, scholar, and entrepreneur. The episode centers around Matthew's insightful book, "The Psychedelic Origin of Religion," which delves into the profound and historical connection between psychedelics and shamanistic practices in various world religions. Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://passionstruck.com/matthew-weintrub-psychedelic-origin-of-religion/  Passion Struck is Now Available for Pre-Order Want to learn the 12 philosophies that the most successful people use to create a limitless life? Get over $300 in free gifts when you pre-order John R. Miles’s new book, Passion Struck, which will be released on February 6, 2024. Sponsors Brought to you by OneSkin. Get 15% off your order using code Passionstruck at https://www.oneskin.co/#oneskinpod. Brought to you by Indeed: Claim your SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLAR CREDIT now at Indeed dot com slash PASSIONSTRUCK. Brought to you by Lifeforce: Join me and thousands of others who have transformed their lives through Lifeforce's proactive and personalized approach to healthcare. Visit MyLifeforce.com today to start your membership and receive an exclusive $200 off. Brought to you by Hello Fresh. Use code passion 50 to get 50% off plus free shipping!  --► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to: https://passionstruck.com/deals/ The Psychedelic Path to Spirituality: Matthew Weintrub's Journey of Healing and Connection In this episode of the Passion Struck podcast, host John R. Miles is joined by Matthew Weintrub, a healer and psychedelic activist. This episode is a deep dive into the intersection of spirituality, history, and the potential of psychedelics to heal and connect us to our spiritual roots. My solo episode on Why We All Crave To Matter: Exploring The Power Of Mattering: https://passionstruck.com/exploring-the-power-of-mattering/ Watch my interview with Ivo Brughmans On How To Navigate The Paradoxes Of Leadership: https://passionstruck.com/ivo-brughmans-navigate-paradoxes-of-leadership/ Catch my interview with Jacob Morgan On The Vital Power Of Leading With Vulnerability: https://passionstruck.com/jacob-morgan-leading-with-vulnerability/ My solo episode on Fading Into Insignificance: The Impact Of Un-Mattering In Our Interconnected Era: https://passionstruck.com/the-impact-of-un-mattering-in-our-era/   Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally! How to Connect with John Connect with John on Twitter at @John_RMiles and on Instagram at @john_R_Miles. Subscribe to our main YouTube Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles Subscribe to our YouTube Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@passionstruckclips Want to uncover your profound sense of Mattering? I provide my master class on five simple steps to achieving it. Want to hear my best interviews? Check out my starter packs on intentional behavior change, women at the top of their game, longevity, and well-being, and overcoming adversity. Learn more about John: https://johnrmiles.com/ 

coming up next on passion strike. What's fascinating is the connection between psychedelics inducing a mystical state of consciousness which has been researched by John Hopkins in measured that most people reporting this phenomenon on them, I'm connecting to this higher being, this higher purpose, and this revelation that there is this other world beyond us. And then the other thing I would add to that is the law of thermodynamics, John, simply states, I have energies now that they created in order to destroy it. So the question we have to ask about death is really where does energy go? Because it can't be destroyed, though, that's a law of physics. So we need to ask a better question of, okay, so the energies

transmitted, where does it transmit to? That's what I'm interested in pursuing as discovery. Welcome to PassionStruct. Hi, I'm your host, Jon Armyles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes.

Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 377 of PassionStruck, the number one alternative health podcast. And thank you to all of you who come back weekly to listen and learn, had a live better, be better, in impact the world. I am so excited to announce that my new book, PassionStruck, is now available for pre-order,

and you can find it at Amazon or on the PassionStruck website. Starting in December, I will be using my solo episodes to discuss different aspects of the book, leading up to its launch, and in January, we will feature guests who I talk about in the book. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here, or if you simply want to introduce this to a friend or a family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that, please check out our episode starter packs, which are collections of our favorite episodes that we've organized into convenient playlists that give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do around the show, especially now that we have 375 episodes.

Either go to spotifyrapassinstruck.com or get started. In case you missed it, earlier this week I had two great interviews. The first was with my friend Amy Morin, who's a psychotherapist, international best-sung author, five books on mental strength, and who also gave one of the most popular TED Talks ever, on the secret to becoming mentally strong that has more than 22 million views. We discuss mental strength exercises and talk about how to avoid the unhealthy habits that can hold us back in life. I also interviewed Drew Plotkin, author of Under My Skin. Drew discusses the role of Costa Rhyde that has been his life and the painful secrets of

his past, along with his own techniques and tools for continuously navigating life's never-ending trail of valleys and peaks. If you love either of those episodes or todays, we would so appreciate you giving it a five star review and sharing it with your friends and families. I know we and our guests love to see comments from our listeners and these truly do go such a long way into bringing more people into the community where we can give them hope, meaning, and inspiration. In today's episode, we embark on a journey into the depths of spirituality, consciousness, and the fascinating connections between psychedelics and religion. Our guest today, a true luminary in this field and a personal friend of mine, Matthew Wain-Trub,

is a healer psychedelic activist, scholar, and entrepreneur. Matthew is here to present his groundbreaking book, A Psychedelic Origin of Religion. In this interview, we explore the profound ties that bind psychedelics and shamanism to the tapestry of all world religions. With a blend of meticulous research and deeply personal experiences, he illuminates how the use of psychedelics and spiritual rituals can be traced back to the earliest chapters of human history. In a world where many yearn reconnect with their spiritual essence, Matthew's work offers a compelling proposition.

By drawing on fascinating antidotes and compelling evidence, a psychedelic origin of religion shows how these substances have, throughout millennia, facilitated spiritual experiences and served as a bridge to the divine. This episode challenges conventional wisdom, urging listeners to ponder the potential of incorporating psychedelics into their own spiritual practices. It's a daring proposition, one that invites us to rediscover our intrinsic spirituality and find healing and fulfillment in the process. Stay tuned for an episode that promises to challenge your perspective and ignite the flames of curiosity deep within your soul. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an

intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. Now, let that journey begin. I am so excited today to welcome my friend, Matthew Y. Trabbe, to the passion struck. Welcome, Matthew. Thanks, John. It's great to be here. Man, it's great to see you again. And I love your new book. It came out in January of 2023. And we're going to be exploring it all today and for those who I just

show a picture of it, but it's called the psychedelic origin of religion. And Matthew, I thought I'd start out this way. One of the core topics that I explore on this podcast is the topic of mattering. And I understand from reading about you that this is a profound area where you've dedicated much thought over the years. And you share how you've spent your life studying the final mental question of why are you here? I think it just started with the basic sense of, I think a lot of us asked this question, why are we here? What are we doing? And that just always was a question that even formed me of life. And part of it had to do with the fact that I grew up with a heart condition. So I've seen this anomaly. It's a heart surgery? I'm gonna need to have heart surgery.

And I think that kind of started my process of questioning life a little bit. And so I really got into stoicism, but a young age. And I really found that philosophy super calming to like my anxiety around my health in terms of being present in terms of maybe wanting to make peace with the idea that someday we don't we don't want to win. Well, it's interesting Matthew because just yesterday I had an interview with Dr. Kate Bowling and I'm not sure if you know anything about Kate, but she has been studying religion and as a professor at Duke, but she has spent

a lot of her time studying prosperity religions, such as Joel Olstein or Tammy LeBaker, etc. But for her life was on autopilot and everything seemed great. And out of nowhere, she was hit with a diagnosis of stage 4 colon cancer that, as you can imagine, completely rocked her world. And she said for her, this whole idea of potentially our mortality over time had always been in the back of her mind, but that incident really brought it up to the forefront. And from going through that experience and now channeling herself even more into religion, she has found more fulfillment and more meaning in the purpose that she has been set out here to perform.

And I understand in your case, not the same thing with cancer happened, but that you found yourself in this place where you had a lot of the extrinsic things in life that many of us crave for, the million dollar condo, beautiful girlfriend, the amazing job. But at the same time, you were feeling empty inside. Can you describe

this defining moment in your life as it relates to this existential question of our mortality? Yeah, John, totally. So the reason I, that's a beautiful story that you shared, the reason I brought up that condition that I grew up with and actively managed is because I think the anxiety around my own mortality really led me to be overly ambitious and really buy into our culture's story that money solves all the problems. And so I dove head first into that lifestyle, into that ambition, into that ideology, my work's intact. And that's pretty much all I did was work. And I often felt like I neglected my relationships for this ambitious idea of that. If I were a card and start a company is very successful and I have all the money in the world, then I will

be at the end. And by the time I finally started to start realizing that being in a very successful company we sold for $750 million, having a penthouse, and like you're saying, having the corporate credit card, having all this and going, I am miserable. What is this? And why am I feeling this way? And it became this full circle journey

of going through that story that we're telling ourselves in our culture and realizing that whole story is a lot and I needed to break it down and so for me I had in my past and college use psychedelics I was arrested for that as a kick to out of college I found my eventually found a college that would take me in go eggs, give them eggs but that experience was a little heroin for me. It was also a blessing in the skies that got me to realize that really the use of medicine, plant medicine,

or you can use medicine in a harmful way, right, just as you can use it in a good way. And so that led me to basically say, I need to change my entire life. I need to change all my entire life and think about what really matters and how I'm really being of service. And so the only time my life that I could really feel like I was in service was in college, I had a corn, it was a nonprofit teaching farm that's actually saying in. And I felt connected to my community. I felt like I was being of service. My friends were wonderful. We would grow food and then make food and have potlux and serve the community. And I was dying inside to

feel that again. And that's what led me to go on my first ayahuasca retreats. Yeah, so let's go to that ayahuasca retreat because this vision you received during that retreat, and I think it was in 2019, and your subsequent commitment to teaching about reincarnation, psychedelic medicine, prayer fasting, natural food, meditation, etc. All came out of it. Can you describe the details of the vision that I guess evolved over the three first experiences that you had culminating, I think, in the third one, which was your most profound and how it shaped your understanding of life and what you were supposed to do here on the planet. Absolutely. I told a exposure have used medicine for managing depression, anxiety, my entire life, but I was doing it in a self-medicated type way. And I always knew at some point I wanted to try ayahuasca, but I had, as we say, I had that fear of doing it or not feeling connected.

They're called to do it. And if people generally feel this called to come experience this medicine. And so I went down to Coenca, Ecuador, for a 10 day retreat. And I had a beautiful time. The first ceremony, at first night I'd go in there and they asked you to set an intention for ceremony. They say it's a good thing to do. I said, okay, well, my intention for ceremony,

great spirit, as they call it spirit, grand as speedy too. I said, my intention and to Abelita, Iowasca, grandmother, Iowasca is to, I wanna know my purpose. I am here to know my purpose in life. I'm not happy with the way things are to go. I want to purpose. And the medicine first just greeted me with a beautiful hug like the greatest hug of love I've ever felt in my life. And basically said, first off, I want you to know how much I love you. How much the universe loves you, how much God loves you. And I was like, oh my God,

it's real. 100%. This is such a beautiful feeling and embrace. And I still would impress upon the medicine in this conversation we're having in my head. I'm here to know my purpose in the medicine, like the spirit kind of laughed at me. He was like, we got some stuff we got to talk about first. And I was like, okay. And so this spirit showed me my life and my relationships with my family, with my friends, and asked me, are you being the best brother in your life, right now? Are you being the best son in your life, the best uncle in your life,

the best friend in your life, to all the people in your life? And I ended up crying a lot. Tears of joy, but crying a lot, realizing that the most important thing in life was not my purpose, not what I'm doing. It was my family and my friends. It was my relationships. That is the most important thing that we can do in our life. Just take care of our relationships.

And in ceremony, in Indigenous ceremony, they typically say, ahoma of Takayase, which means we pray to all of our relations. The indigenous teachers idea of having good relationships, not just with your friends and family with yourself, but also with nature and all the beings. And some medicine was like, before we even talk about your purpose, you're going to figure that out. How you came all the way down here, how those ideas, how you figured out, you need to really focus on your relationships. And at that time, before I left, I had broken up with my girlfriend. And so that was also one of the relationships that I wanted to try and repair and start to heal. And that's going to do a good way.

and not going to do it the way. Well, for those who are listening who may not believe in psychedelics or may not have much understanding of them, can you go into a little bit more of what one of these ceremonies is and what is the difference between grandmother, ayahuasca, and grandfather, San Pedro? So just in general, a psychedelic also known as an enthiogein is a natural occurring substance that induces a hallucinogenic state of consciousness, which is often researched by scientific institutions. And within this state, you're able to access a different part of your consciousness that can be measured on brain scans. So it's a naturally-appearance state and substance. In the context of an indigenous ceremony, that ceremony is indigenous to native tribes

of the North and South America. And there are different plant medicines that those tribes use. The way they perceive the plants, they perceive all of life to be living and have be alive. And they consider that certain plants, all plants are a form of medicine, but certain plants are power medicines or power teachers.

They call them master plants. So a San Pedro or an ayahuasca are these master plant teachers that these tribes work with and ceremony. And so they have ayahuasca representing the feminine spirit of the grandmother, grandmother spirit when they ancestor. And they have San Pedro, which is considered a grandfather of the grandmother, grandmother spirit when they ancestor. And they have San Pedro, which is considered a grandfather spirit as well. And so they prepare these medicines with prayer over time.

And then they host a ceremony in which you will drink it, but the ceremony is conducted with a series of prayers around a sacred fire. And they believe the fire helps transmute energy that maybe you need to release or purge in that time. And so those prayers act as a vibrational form to call in healing from God, who great spirit as they say or great mystery, and other beings that you may connect with like angels, which are very commonly talked about in scripture. And you are there to learn how to heal yourself in this relationship with these sacred sacraments. And how does that differ from in North America, what the Native Americans have performed in their rituals?

Yeah, so in North America, the Native American Church serves peyote in a ceremony or a meeting. And that is mainly because of the persecution of the American government against those tribes. of the American government against those tribes, they were more or less forced to decide one master plant that they could have, one sacrament. I believe they worked with many before, but they chose peyote, which rose naturally in Texas. It is a very beautiful medicine as well. Sam Pedro and Ayahuasca are more native here in South America. So they chose that sacrament to move forward with, and they have that protection to serve that United States. Okay, and I want to use that as a lead-in because you and I first met our friend Andrew Mars Farm, which is a couple hours outside of Houston, Texas, and right on the verge of being in a national forest.

And I was there doing the David Goggins, four by four by 48, challenged to benefit Andrews Foundation, which is called the Warrer Angels Foundation, which helps veterans with TBI and PTSD. But we also had two other veteran organizations. One was Vets, and the other is Heroicarts, which are trying to help veterans overcome PTSD using psychedelic-assisted therapies. Most of us who were there were veterans. Almost everyone was affiliated in some way with the Special Forces. However, you found your way there and there were also various Native American

tribes that came. What brought you to the retreat? Well, we, I met Andrew and I met Marcus and Amber and a couple others at the Texas Capitol. Representative Donominguez is office. There was a collaboration ongoing for House Bill 1802 and I have an activist of organization and advocacy organization. It's now we're branded to Heal America down and so we support those types of initiatives and we were trying to collaborate on that. So we all met originally at the Texas Capitol and became fast friends. And when I found out that at the time, Andrew and I were having some discussions, just about psychedelic therapy in general.

And when they were planning on doing the four by four by four eight, I have various indigenous elders that I work with and communication with to just build alliances with a good will. And I told one of the elders about this fundraiser that was going on. And just through the blessing and grace of the Lord, we were able to meet together and feel this connection. And the elder chief Phil Lane Jr. He wanted to bring some ceremony to that event as I some charities and goodwill to the community. And it just all flowed together in a really beautiful way.

I didn't realize it at the time. But while we were there, we were witnessing profound history and forgiveness on a scale that I only later came to understand. Can you shed some light on what was happening during this event? Yeah, so Chief Phil Lane, Jr. was there. Grandmother Monopalaka was one of the elders on the Grandmother's Council for Mother Earth. There's 13 of them. And then grandfather Austin,

Nunez was there, he's the head of one of the Indigenous Nations in Arizona. And we held a staking ceremony there, that you feel led. And that staking ceremony was one to make a commitment, all of us there in the circle, make a commitment to working for peace with our lives, to dedicate our lives to creating peace and goodwill. And there was a peyote ceremony held there to act as a bridge of forgiveness because there

has been quite a bit of difficulty between the military, between the U.S. government and indigenous communities. And so that was also in a way, reparation, a healing, and an embrace of cultures, a meeting of cultures where the special operations community, which is leading us charge for veterans in healing and embracing an alternative therapies like natural medicine, psychedelics, and really coming to understand where that comes from. And for me as an advocate, I think it's really important that we respect honor

and embrace that healing and those cultures and what they bring to the table. It was a really beautiful and special moment in time. Well, to me, it was such a significant moment when a grandfather Phil actually presented crazy horses pipe something that hadn't really been broken out for over four decades to the former Secretary of Defense who was there basically offering his forgiveness to the harms that had been put on his nation and the other nations who were there.

And I found that that was a really moving thing to just observe. I couldn't believe we were there witnessing it and the power of that moment still resonates within me. It resonates within me as well. For everybody listening up on John just mentioned Chief Crazy Horse. You can look them up online. Chief crazy horse is probably one of the most revered elders in Native American history. And he was actually famous for defeating the United States Army many times. And so his pipe is a very sacred instrument. And pipes in general for the Native American community are very sacred instruments that are used to pray with for others. And yeah, to have for Smiller there,

to do that with him and the community was, it's hard to put words behind the move, the feeling that I have in Saad, to how that made me feel. I have a secret for you. Chris was going to leave the event and was going to miss that whole portion of the ceremony. And for some reason, I don't know what incurred inside of me, but I said to him, I don't think you should leave.

I think there's a reason you're supposed to be here and you're supposed to be at that ceremony. And he ended up going. And to this day, he thanks me because it was one of the most moving things he's ever experienced. But it's amazing how fate sometimes happens like that. It is, but that's why I believe that God guides all things. Well, speaking of that, can you discuss the concept of mattering within the context of psychedelic experiences and how it relates to our intentions and our beliefs?

Now, when you say mattering, can you just give me a little definition of what that means for you, so I have some context? To me, mattering is having significance that your life is being applied to do something that's good for humanity, that's in service of others, that what you're doing here is what you were called to do and put on this planet to do, as opposed to un-mattering, which I think a lot of people face today, which is leading people to experience things such as hopelessness and loneliness and mental health issues because they feel like they don't matter, that they don't know why they're waking up every morning and how it's benefiting anyone.

Yeah, first thing I want to say is if anybody's listening, you matter. You matter so much that God gave you life and God loves you and God needs you here. You got to put you here for a reason. You may not know it right now, you may not be able to even feel that vibration, but that's how much you matter. And when we talk about mattering, thank you for that definition. It brings me to the word gratitude being grateful. So one of the things that I love in my practice from my wellness is my gratitude prayer that I do. And it's the same thing as saying counting blessings. And to me, it's important for us to be able to frame the things that God has given us,

whether you use that word or not, the things that life has given us. First thing that we're given is our life. That's free. It's pretty awesome. The given air, the given water, the given earth, it's amazing. Those four things we gotta take care of them, because they're all gifts. And so to me, there's this law versus a prostate, John, which means says to give is to receive. And so sometimes we wake up, we don't realize how many gifts we have been given.

We spend our time focused on what we feel that we don't have. And we embrace this idea of life. I lack this and I lack that. We might say in our head, I want this, we're gonna say, God, I want this. Give me this. And we feel to give things for all the things we have been given. Now maybe sometimes your parents might not still be with you, but they gave you life.

Can you be grateful that they gave you life? What can you find the gratefulness for? Because life is challenging. So to me, before anything can matter, we have to acknowledge how good life can be. And life is, even when it's not great in a moment. And so from there, really building that up, it builds up this mentality in one's mind that you can see the world through a different lens.

Maybe it's more about more than just me, and it is. So the way I look at life, John, is that God needs me, God needs you, God needs us to tap in to our highest truth. When we do that, we find that when we give to others, whatever our gift is, your gift is this podcast, right? You're giving others this amazing platform to share their stories of people want to listen because you do it in a good way. That's beautiful.

We all have these beautiful gifts and we have to discover them through our journey. And when we do that, then we're really serving others in a good way. And when we serve others, that's how we serve God. That is service. What service looks like can be very different for one person or the other. There's no judgment there, but a lot of times we get very confused about serving ourselves and not others. And it's the question always becomes, can I do more to help other people? Can I think about other people more in my intentions that I'm creating for myself? I want to use that Matthew as a segue to a very interesting interview that I did a number of episodes ago.

I think it was 332. And I did this with a woman named Rebecca Rosen, who is one of the foremost spiritual mediums in the country. She does thousands of readings per year and has been doing this for now decades. And she came out with a book that she are called What's Your Heaven? And I remember when we were having this discussion, she refers to something called Earth School.

And through her interactions with the spirit world, she has come to a profound understanding that each of us is brought back to Earth to go through Earth School as she calls it. And what has been revealed to her is that each of us is on a journey of fulfillment. And we each have gaps in that path. And so before we are brought back, we choose major areas

that we need to work on to become self-realized, to become this person that we are supposed to be. So we each, according to her, communications are brought here with a profound mission of what we are supposed to accomplish during our time here. And she said that you can see when it's working well because when you're doing the things that you're supposed to be doing and you're being guided by your spirit warriors, then you are on this path to fulfillment and things are generally going well in your life. However, when you are resisting the things that they're telling you to do, when you're not doing what you're put on earth to do,

adversity starts facing you and things are not going as you would like them to. And I just wanted to ask you, because I know a lot of people when they hear things like that, they think, this lady's out of her mind, or how can she possibly speak to spirits in that way. Do you believe anything that she says is accurate based on your experiences? says is accurate based on your experiences? Yes. And I would like to anchor what she's saying in science. Is I think in today's age, it is easy to speak plainly about the father, about the Lord, the Holy Spirit, great spirit with science. For instance, the spirit world, what is that? So the University of

Virginia has a department that studies the science of reincarnation. It was started in I think the 30s or 40s and still continues this day, Dr. Jim Tucker is the head of that department. You can look it up. You look at University of Virginia science reincarnation. Several books that have thousands of published science of appeared in studies, what they study are past lives, or the phenomenon of children under the age of seven who tend to remember their past lives

after seven they tend to start forgetting. And they're able to, with those children, put together a life story and then go find out, is that person alive, did that person exist? And they're actually able to find these families, these people that have died, bring these children to those families. And that child typically is able to communicate to that family, things that no one should know to these family members. Which without a doubt, proves that there is a cycle of life, that there is a soul. And so for me, my understanding of life,

and my next book is going to be the Science of Great Carnation. It's a book I'm working on, is that I believe that science can prove the cycle of where our soul comes and goes and why it does incarnate here. And we don't have all the answers, but enough, thousands of documented cases, the point where either one can turn a blind eye

to the science or just keep an open mind to this. But we see this in scripture. Now, it may not be typically in today's modern Bible, but in Gospel of Thomas, which is probably the earliest piece of scripture that was found in the 1940s, Christ talks about this phenomenon. And there are things about the life of Yeshua

that the common American thinks is Jesus, that he actually did teach this concept, Buddha taught this concept, and actually, aside from the modern Christian world, almost every culture has a story of belief in this psychoverincarnation. And so for me, what's fascinating is the connection between psychedelics inducing a mystical state of consciousness

which has been researched by John Hopkins and measured that most people reporting is phenomena on them, on connecting to this higher being, this higher purpose, and this revelation that there is this other world beyond us. And then the other thing I would add to that is the law of thermodynamics, John,

simply states, I have energies neither pre-din or destroyed. So the question we have to ask about death is, really, where does the energy go? Because it can't be destroyed, though, that's a law of physics. So we need to ask a better question of, okay, so the energy is transmuted. Where does it transmute to?

That's what I'm interested in pursuing as discovery. And for me, and my third ceremony, we didn't get to get into it, but in that ceremony, when I basically folded out of my body, and I was surrounded by spirits that seemed like angels and beings, like light, and they showed me my past lives. And they simply encouraged me to, when I asked them,

what is my purpose here, they said, well, you should see your past lives. I said, yes, this is crazy. They said, why don't you try to figure out how to communicate that science to the people? And I said, I can do that. So that was one of the beautiful things that came out of that. And so I can't obviously give you the science of how I experienced that, but I can go try and find some stuff to do it.

So I would agree with her that we are here to do that work to experience life. And that's just another beautiful gift from God to realize that yes, we die in our physical body, but we have everlasting life. That is the teaching of scripture really at its base core because also another thing about prices that price never really talked about. Hell, there's really no concept of hell at all. That was a modern invention or what we call false teaching. So I would agree with her, but I do agree that when we don't anchor these things in Steins, John, whether it's a story about psychedelics, whatever, it's very difficult to communicate in a logical way because it does, in some, we've lost the magic of life. And so we discount other people's testimony. We're dehumanizing our siblings, our brothers and sisters

when they share their truth. And I understand that, but I do wish that we would be more willing to hear others. And just listen and maybe consider that not first judge, oh, they're crazy, sound crazy. Yeah, it may sound a little crazy. I get it. It does. But maybe they're on to something. Maybe if their life as she's saying is manifesting in a good way, maybe they're on to something. Maybe the God is giving them these blessings of a beautiful life because God wants that message to continue to prosper.

Well, Matthew, that explanation leads me to ask you your book, the psychedeledelic Origin of Religion, challenges traditional beliefs about religion. What are some of those beliefs and what sparked your interest in unraveling this connection? It really started with that whole retreat experience and this revelation of really feeling while heaven is within my own part. And I started asking this question I grew up in a Jewish household in a very small Jewish community in Texas which meant all my friends are Christian like gone to church

I've sat in Bible study just to hang out with my friends like I've been surrounded by the judoic Christian values my entire life but never connected with it and I was also surrounded by a lot of people that were very hypocritical about being religious. And so it led me to this question, what is the origin of religion? Because what they're doing here, they don't call it a religion. They say it's a way of life.

What they're doing here is so beautiful people are healing and connecting, and I'm healing. What is this? And so I asked myself this question, where does religion come from? And could I potentially prove that all these religions are related in some way to psychedelic, to sacred sacraments, to natural medicine?

It took me about two years of research. And then I wrote my book because I can show, and I show on the book, whether it's Christianity or Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, not Taoism, but Torah,, ashtrayanism. And then the Native American cultures that we all had a past where we were in some way, communing having a holy communion with this psychedelic

sacraments all around the world. And most of those cultures gave that up through time, through whatever you want to call it, distortions, through false teachings, through lives, gave that up through time, through whatever you want to call it, right, distortions, through false teachings, through lives, gave that up through persecution, etc. But the indigenous cultures continued to do the same thing. And now, in today's world, everyone is going to these Native Americans, these Indigenous cultures and finding healing with these natural medicines. now the science of the community United States and this whole movement of psychedelics to bring that healing to America has happened. So now we have the science that proves it conclusively and

we've got this ancient anthropological evidence of it as well and it's really just a beautiful message that in some ways we've made religion a very processed form and we know processed foods are not really healthy for us and that by getting back to what's natural, this is just natural medicine and doing it in a prayerful way right? But we're finding this connection again to spirit and that that is salvation to me, that's a message of salvation and that's a gospel that should be spread all over the world. I'm glad you brought all that up. And I am not sure if you're familiar with the book, The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell,

something I referred to a lot. I haven't read it, but you didn't tell me about it. Yeah. You've got to read this book. He's not talking about psychedelics in it. Although the myths that he talks about could have been formed by people who over the ages were using psychedelics to come up with the myths that he talks about. But in it, he really describes that throughout history, all of the major religions that All of the major religions that are out there all share these common stories. They each use different symbols to discuss them, but each one has a version of Genesis.

Each one has a version of the Exodus. Each one has a version of this. And he basically was saying that the religions in differing formats came about because society was evolving and people weren't relating as well to the core messages and how they were being taught. So, people created new ways to envision these myths that people would better refer to. And he was saying that the last major religion that was formed was really Catholicism and Christianity and that since then there hasn't been a huge undertaking of a new religion that would

take these myths and put it into terms that modern people today could understand. Now we could say there have been religion, Scientology has come about, Jehovah's Witnesses have come about, et cetera. But I think he is talking about a more profound religion that is like Judaism or Christianity or Hinduism or one of those things. But it's interesting because in it he goes through and he shows these different stories. And then he illustrates how they're told in these different religions. So that's what the book is about. Well, and speaking of pseudo religions and things like that, you start out the book by saying that we live in your words in a pseudo spiritual age

where everything around us feels fake. We live in a fake culture and we practice fake religions. How do you think this backdrop of greed, selfishness, and apathy, and I love this word apathy, is causing so many billions, and I'm using the words billions of people to face epidemics on a growing scale of loneliness, hopelessness, and growing mental issues across the board.

Actions speak louder than words. That's the short version of me, John. The longer version goes back to this just simple understanding of indigenous law. It's called natural law. And so what is taught is that without cleaner, without clean water, without healthy soil, there is no life. Those things are sacred. Christ taught that as well. And yet what do we do for money?

We put the water, we put the air, we put the air, your question is why are we doing? Why is money so important? Why have we made money such a false idol that we worship in our lives because you said you pursued it I pursued it as well I pursued that false idol and I found I was Almost killing my own soul So I think for those who are awakening or have gone through stories like yourself that heroes journey worshipping money in some way That's not what brings contentment or inner peace. That's not what's going to give us what we need. And so we have this really what is called by the Cree tribe in

Canada, with Tico. Tico is a disease, dis-ease of the human spirit where one worships money and selfishness. And when it infects your mind, you can't think clearly. You're not thinking clearly, because you're thinking about things that aren't essential. And so natural law teaches us, and so does the Torah, of my people, the Jewish people. It teaches us to look at how we make decisions in the basis of, is this good for our children,

and for the children's children, and for the future children's children? And that's the framework through which we are encouraged to make decisions. And I know sometimes things aren't perfect, but I'll give you an example, maybe that I can root this down. I was watching a video last night, because we all know we need to transform our energy paradigm. And that potentially renewable energy is that answer. And this gentleman was doing a video on the waste generated by renewable energy. And that there's so much waste from the wind turbines and all this stuff,

but we're not recycling it. We're just bearing it back on the ground so that he was making his argument that there's no renewable energy. And I think we need to start ourselves in a way to embrace technology and embrace indigenous wisdom for how we present solutions, but also into end solutions that if we're going to make new electric car batteries, we also need to invest in how we recycle them and have a smart way to do it. Because right now, if you go look at a place that produces electric car batteries, it's an environmental disaster. So we have to get better working together,

collaborating together and being conscious about all of our decisions and stop cutting corners for money's sake. And so for me, it's less about pointing out the problems and more about trying to collaborate with thinkers who want to bring together solutions, right? Take action to do things. Whether it's a psychedelic movement,

an action of people to stand up and God bless our veterans who can get the attention of public officials, as soon as I'm saying, I deserve my right to heal with natural medicine. That's action, that's saving people's lives because not people are getting access to this and I'm not committing suicide

or not feeling depressed or hopeless. So what is it? I think it's a matter of us learning how to work together again and realize that we, the people, are the change that we wanna see in the world. And that's my intention as well to be that change. I'm glad you brought up how psychedelics That's my intention as well to be that change. I'm glad you brought up how psychedelics are helping people overcome mental health issues, et cetera,

because in some previous episodes I've done on this topic and in research I've done, it was really eye-opening for me when I found out that when you're doing typical talk therapy, whether it's cognitive processing therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy or what have you, the efficacy rate is about 33%. But what these major research facilities, and you mentioned Johns Hopkins, but there are many others that are exploring this. And they're all finding that the efficacy rate on using psychedelics to treat PTSD and other mental health issues is between 66% to 80% and it's such a huge leap and you might even have more recent data

than I do, but it just shows you the power that these could have and why so many people are now are trying to legalize them. You can see confidence intervals in those measurements of those studies at 80%. That is on herd of in scientific research, that type of confidence interval, right? Four to five people. And the thing that I find partially frustrating, John,

that I wanna bring up is that thousands, we could probably have tens of thousands of people who have experienced a psychedelic ceremony in an indigenous context go, I found healing there. And the question is how many people do we need to raise their hand and go, I found healing to go, I trust 10,000 people that this is valuable. If a confidence interval of 33% is good enough for certain medications to get approved by the government, why is not groups of tens of thousands of people standing up and saying, I need this, not good enough? Or another question, if you serve medicine,

sacred sacraments, these plant medicines, you have to go through a process with indigenous elders and their tribes to be approved to have the blessing to serve medicine. That can take from anywhere from 48 years. And so sometimes I have a little frustration with the medical community, the United States and the movement of appropriating all of this and saying, well, we're going to take this from you, from the indigenous community. And we're going to figure out how to do it. Instead of saying, we teach us, we come lead this for us, we come show us the way, and we can show you our way, and we can make a better way together. Instead of just taking, we've been known for so long to take, but are we really willing to sit down with some

indigenous elders and say, can you help us do this, or can we create a good relationship where you help grow medicine and then bring it to us and we pay you what's fair instead of just taking or it's always taking and so sometimes have that concern that we're pushing so fast for change and we need it don't get me wrong but we're also neglecting and creating the same cycles of trauma again and again by the way we're doing things. And so in some ways I wish we would slow down a little bit and focus less on the potential of making a lot of money helping people heal and focusing on how do we make this a good way that we're all doing this together. Or make sure that everybody's included.

Make sure everybody's included in a new way. Well, thank you for sharing that. And can you share a little bit more about how do you see the role of psychedelics evolving in modern spirituality and what benefits do they offer in this context? So I would say that as a person on a commuter rojo or the red road, I believe that it's for me, I don't like to self-medicate if you want to use that term. I believe that this should be facilitated for novice users of this medicine who experienced it in a conscious, loving way with good standards of care. And so I think this can be a transformational thing

for communities, but I think we need to figure out a way that we can design and develop healing centers that include both Western medicine protocols with indigenous healing protocols and have that available in communities all around the country. And I believe it should be protected at the federal level to do this.

I believe that everyone should have the first amendment to exercise that with national medicine to be able to produce that national medicine to not be put in jail for doing that. And I believe that we should find some ideal funding mechanism to do that. I think we could probably do it self-funded in communities. But that's what I think it looks like in the future. And I know that some people will need it in different forms or factors with a doctor, et cetera. And I want everyone to define healing.

I believe simply that natural medicine should be legal that we should have with it's a human right. And that everyone deserves the right to find healing in their life. And if we bring that to people, we're just making the world a better place. And that when people feel whole and they feel good and they're pursuing an intention or life to be a service that makes the entire world better. And as elders would say, the herd of one is the herd of all. Brian, this is my prayer. It's not just the work they do. It's the prayer of my life that that I want to be able to come home to Texas. I want to have my own church job and I want to be

able to help people heal in a good way. And I want to build this in my own country. I live in Ecuador because I'm free to practice this way of life here. And I do pray that someday I can bring that home. And what advice, Matthew, would you give to someone who's interested in exploring psychedelics for spiritual purposes or mental health for the first time? I would really encourage you to find a good healing center outside of the United States is probably your best option. There is a new healing center in Oregon that's quite expensive, but I would encourage you whether you're going to do this with a doctor or with the healing with the indigenous

communities to find a center that does that and go do it there. I don't think it's healthy to try to do this on your own. I think it's important to heal in community and have a support system there for you. However, you can find that there are churches in the United States that are doing that work. They're a little bit typical to find, but try to find a community which can help you along that journey.

community, which can help you along that journey. Okay, and I know that in many cultures, there's a whole issue that people bring up when it comes to doing drugs of this sort. Are there any specific cultural or societal shifts you believe are necessary to destigmatize psychedelics and integrate them into the mainstream? to destigmatize psychedelics and integrate them into the mainstream. Well, one I'd like to say the only difference between a drug and a medicine is how you use it. Could be food, could be anything, it could be gambling, could be sex, drug or medicine, I think,'s a stigma around psychedelics and in Colorado when the natural medicine act was passed, we found that the polling around the words natural medicine

resonated better with individuals. So I think I try to consciously communicate using the word natural medicine so that people can understand this is just a natural medicine. It's not some crazy thing that came somebody invented. It's very natural. It's a natural process. And so it's something that we all we don't have to experience it, but we all deserve to experience it. Okay, and in psychedelic culture, there is something that you refer to in the book called

Science of Ego Death. Can you explain this concept and its impact on our consciousness? Yeah. So I think really good point to bring up is what is actually on the neuroscience side happening, John, when we are adjusting these sacraments, these plant medicines, we all have an ego part of our life. But when you are taking a psychedelic, it actually in the mind suspends that part of you and it enables you to have a different perception of your own being outside of the ego. have a different perception of your own being outside of the ego. And so what that is called scientifically is an ego death. And when you experience this ego death, which can be measured on brain scans, that is when the individual starts to have this greater sense of connection,

this mystical experience that they're important literature, a connection to a bigger being, a supreme being, whether it's God or the word Allah, however you use describe creator, the universe. And so that phenomenon is fascinating because that is what's enabling us to disconnect from this ego which is once control over everything, I can control it, you can't control everything, there's a greater guiding force to this entire universe. So it asks us to let go. The ego is all about me and what I want. And the medicine in this phenomenon forces you to release all the things that you want and realize there is so much

more to you than what you're perceiving. And so without this medicine, we get this lens over our eyes that clouds our perception of life. We stop seeing the beauty in life. We stop seeing the goodness, the blessings. And we start to focus on all the things that are negative, these lower vibrational forms, the greed, all these things. And so it's just a fascinating phenomenon that is document and really what's happening in the mind with this medicine. Okay, and Matthew, my last question for you is what message or insight do you hope readers and listeners will take away from your work in this podcast episode? Yeah,

people take away that love is the most powerful force in the universe and that love is really all you need. Okay, and for someone who would like to learn more about you and what you're doing, what are the best ways for them to get in touch with you? Best way to get in touch is probably on Instagram at H-E-Y-P-T-R-U-B-TROB. I also have a website, T-R-U-B dot keel.erth. You can find all my links to various things. We have a Iowaska retreats down here in Eskore, Ecuador. Yeah, thanks.

Well, Matthew, thank you for taking the time to join us today and sharing all your amazing research on Cidelix and spirituality. Thank you so much. Thanks, John. Thanks for everything you do, bud. You're welcome. I so thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Matthew Ynthrabin. I wanted to thank him for joining us today.

Links to all things Matthew will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links to purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. Videos are on YouTube at both our channels, John Armiles, as well as PassionStruck clips. You can catch me at John Armiles on all the social platforms. You can sign up for my work-related newsletter, Work Intentionally, on LinkedIn. Advertiser deals and discount codes earn one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. You can also sign up for my personal development newsletter,

live intentionally, at passionstruck.com. Lastly, we now have passionstruck quiz available. And you can catch this on our book page. Just go to passionstruck.com, backslash passionstruck book, to take the passionstruck.com, backslash, passion struck book to take the passion struck continuum and find where you are on your journey to becoming passion struck. You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Struck podcast interview that I did with Dr. Nicole LaPera, a number one New York

Times bestselling author and illuminary in holistic psychology who brings a revolutionary perspective to the table in her new groundbreaking book, How to Be the Love that You Seek, she proposes that healing our broken relationships first requires that we fix the relationships that we have with ourselves. I think sometimes there's a bit of misinterpretation in terms of what is meant by self love. I think naturally when we think of self love, we think of all the positive feelings that we could have about ourselves, naturally when we think of self-love, we think of all the positive feelings that we could have about ourselves, liking ourselves, being in celebration of ourselves, doing nice things for ourselves.

Though what I've come to learn is that self-love is much more than that, self-love is grounded in the ability to be present to all of ourself. Inside and outside of those more positive feelings or positive moments or positive loving gestures. The fee for this show is that you share it with family and friends when you find something useful or interesting. If you know someone who's interested in exploring the psychedelics of religion, then definitely share this episode with them. The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share the show with those that you love and care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live us is to share the show with those that you love and care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show, so that you can love what you listen. Until next time, go out there and become Ash and Straub.

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