Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Mike Massimino on How to Achieve Your Own Personal Moonshots EP 381

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

In this episode of Passion Struck, host John interviews astronaut Dr. Mike Massimino about his extraordinary journey from a working-class kid with a dream to strapping himself into a NASA space shuttle. Mike shares his experiences of walking in space, repairing the Hubble telescope, and the lessons he learned along the way. He also discusses his new book, "Moonshot," which offers a roadmap for success and practical advice for achieving your biggest goals. Join us as we delve into the mindset of an astronaut and discover the power of determination, perseverance, and the pursuit of passion. Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://passionstruck.com/mike-massimino-lessons-from-space-to-daily-life/  Passion Struck is Now Available for Pre-Order Want to learn the 12 philosophies that the most successful people use to create a limitless life? Get over $300 in free gifts when you pre-order John R. Miles’s new book, Passion Struck, which will be released on February 6, 2024. Sponsors Brought to you by OneSkin. Get 15% off your order using code Passionstruck at https://www.oneskin.co/#oneskinpod. Brought to you by Indeed: Claim your SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLAR CREDIT now at Indeed dot com slash PASSIONSTRUCK. Brought to you by Lifeforce: Join me and thousands of others who have transformed their lives through Lifeforce's proactive and personalized approach to healthcare. Visit MyLifeforce.com today to start your membership and receive an exclusive $200 off. Brought to you by Hello Fresh. Use code passion 50 to get 50% off plus free shipping!  --► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to: https://passionstruck.com/deals/ Mike Massimino on Applying Lessons From Space to Daily Life Mike and I discuss how we can apply the lessons learned from space exploration to our own lives. Mike emphasizes the importance of being the "mission control" for others and finding awe in the ordinary. We also discuss how Massimino who was the first rookie to ever spacewalk on the Hubble and contributed to the discovery of dark energy, which later won a Nobel Prize in physics. Catch More of Passion Struck My solo episode on Why We All Crave To Matter: Exploring The Power Of Mattering: https://passionstruck.com/exploring-the-power-of-mattering/ Take a look at my solo episode on How To Live Intentionally With Passion And Perseverance: https://passionstruck.com/how-to-live-intentionally/ Watch my interview with Former Astronaut Wendy Lawrence On Permit Yourself To Dream The Dream: https://passionstruck.com/podcast/permit-yourself-to-dream-passion-struck/ Catch my interview with Astronaut Kayla Barron On How To Be The Best Version Of Yourself: https://passionstruck.com/kayla-barron-be-the-best-version-of-yourself/ My solo episode on The 6 Key Steps To Bold Risk-Taking For Personal Growth: https://passionstruck.com/6-key-steps-to-bold-risk-taking/ Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally! How to Connect with John Connect with John on Twitter at @John_RMiles and on Instagram at @john_R_Miles. Subscribe to our main YouTube Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles Subscribe to our YouTube Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@passionstruckclips Want to uncover your profound sense of Mattering? I provide my master class on five simple steps to achieving it. Want to hear my best interviews? Check out my starter packs on intentional behavior change, women at the top of their game, longevity, and well-being, and overcoming adversity. Learn more about John: https://johnrmiles.com/ 

coming up next on PassionStruck. There's a chapter in a book that talks about it's called BMA's looking at our planet from space I thought I was looking into absolute paradise and can't imagine any place being more beautiful than our planet or home. As far as this mattering I think we matter a lot because we got a really cool place to live. I believe that there is life other places. I don't think we've encountered it yet, but I think we're going to find each other at some point. But I would be shocked if wherever they are, they have a place as beautiful as our planet. And I think we are in a very unique spot.

It's a complete and utter paradise that we're living in. I think you see it's true beauty from space. And maybe that's what people define as the overview effect. Welcome to PassionStruct. Hi, I'm your host, John Armyles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you.

Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries and athletes. Now let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello everyone and welcome back to episode 381 of PassionStruck. Incidentally ranked by Apple is the number one alternative health podcast. And thank you to all of you come back weekly to listen and learn how to live better, be better, and impact the world.

I am so excited to announce that my new book Passion Struct is now available for preorder and you can find it at Amazon or on the Passion Struct website. Throughout the months of December and January I will be using my solo episodes to discuss different aspects of the book, leading up to its launch in February. And in January, we will feature some surprise guests who I talk about in the book. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here, or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or family member, check out our starter packs, which are collections of our fans' favorite episodes that we've put into convenient playlists that give any new listeners a great way to get acclimated to everything we do here on the show. Either go to Spotify or PassionStruck.com slash Start-Up-Hacks to get started.

In case you missed it last week, beat your two great interviews. First was with Dr. Nicole LaPera. Number one, New York Times bestselling author and illuminatorian holistic psychology. We discussed her new groundbreaking book, How to Be the Love You Seek, where she proposes that healing our relationship first requires addressing the relationship we have with ourselves. I also interviewed Lee Benson, who is a value creation expert with over 30 years of experience in the business world, is the CEO of Execute to Win, a firm that helps organizations of all sizes to accelerate the value they create. In our interview, we discussed Lee's new book, Value Creation Kid, which offers a roadmap

for parents helping them equip their children with the superpower of turning every life experience into a valuable lesson. If you liked either of those episodes or today's, we would truly appreciate a five-star rating interview and sharing the show with your friends and family. It was such a long way in bringing more people into the Passion Star community and we know our guests love to hear from our listeners. Today, on PassionStruck, we're incredibly fortunate to have a guest who's truly out of this world, Dr. Mike Massimino, from growing up as a working class kid with a dream as vast as the cosmos, strapping himself into a NASA space shuttle and orbiting our beautiful planet. Mike has experienced a journey that is nothing short of its ordinary. He's walked in space four times,

repaired the Hubble telescope, and even sent tweets from the final frontier, a true modern-day explorer who's pushed the boundaries of what's possible. He might also remember him on the Big Bang Theory, but Mike's journey hasn't just been about reaching the stars, it's also about the lessons learned along the way. Lessons about determination, commitment, and the power of dreams. As a senior advisor for Space Programs at the Intrepid Sea, Air, and Space Museum, a professor at Columbia University, and a New York Times bestselling author Mike has distilled these lessons into an actionable guide for anyone looking to achieve their biggest goals. In our interview, we discuss his new book, Moon Shot, which is not just a memoir, it's a roadmap for success. Act with wit, wisdom, and the unique perspective of men who've seen

our world from a vantage point you ever will. We explore the ten hard earned lessons of spaceflight in life that Mike shares in his book. We discuss the importance of facing impossible odds and for a sudden change, and always taking the time to marvel at the universe around us. We also explore how we can apply these lessons to our own lives. We discuss how to be the mission control for others, how to turn your workplace into your laboratory, and find awe in the ordinary. And of course, we'll get the inside scoop of what it was like from Ike to be the first rookie to ever spacewalk on the Hubble. And how that

mission contributed to the discovery of dark energy which later won a Nobel Prize in physics. So get ready listeners because you're about to embark on a journey that will inspire you to reach for the stars no matter how far they may seem. Thank you for choosing passion struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I am so excited today to welcome astronaut Dr. Mike Masamino to Passion Struck. Welcome, Mike. John, thanks for having me. I'm going to start out today's interview by asking the question I love to ask,

which is we all have moments that define who we are or who we want to become. Can you take us back to that moment as a six-year-old when thoughts of you going into space started coming into your head the day after seeing Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldern walk on the moon. Certainly, John. Thanks for having me and whoever's listening. Thank you for listening. I can very clearly remember that event.

I was six years old and the whole moon program and the Apollo missions that came before like Apollo 8 and Apollo 9 and 10 that led up to Apollo 11. I remember those things happening as well. And to me, I just got the sense that this was the most important thing going on in the world at the time. And it was. It had a lot going on at that time in the late 60s, as there's always a lot going on in the world.

But this seemed to really be a good thing that had captured everyone's imagination and interest around the world, not just in the United States, but everyone was paying attention to what was going on with the moon landing. And I felt like this was the most significant thing that had happened in my short lifetime at the time, it's six years old,

but I also had this sense that this is the most important thing that's gonna happen for hundreds of years. I had that sense that this is really significant and as a little kid, I remember thinking that clearly. We had learned about things that had happened hundreds of years before with the explorers coming to the new world and how that was a significant thing back then. But I felt like that's what I was learning about as a little kid, but I felt like this was going to be on that level as far as exploration goes and expanding our horizons. This was the next level. And I still feel that way about it. I don't see how we can

ever top that. I don't think we ever will. And I think some people look at that as being disappointing, but I look at it as that's what it's such a great achievement it was. And for me, John, it wasn't just wanting to go to space. It was, I wanted to be like those astronauts. I wanted to be like Neil Armstrong right here. I wanted to be like, that's the way I wanted to grow up. I want to grow up to be that kind of person. That's what got me interested as a six-year-old. And then of course, by the time I was eight years old,

I was like, God, it can never happen. But at six years old, that's the way I felt about it. And that's the way I still feel about it. Well, referring to when you turned eight, that's when you experienced your fear of height made you start to rethink if this astronaut thing was really a possibility, but it wasn't until January 1986, and I remember it quite clearly because I was a junior in high school watching it when many people were on TV when shuttle challenger exploded. People don't think about it, but space travel is probably the most

dangerous profession you could have. And I'm going to just use this example because before we got on, I told you I knew a number of astronauts. I met your former classmate, Willie McCool, I met your former classmate, Willie McCool, long before he became an astronaut. I ran cross-country and track at the Naval Academy. He was quite a legend. I had him and just was so inspired by him and had kept up with him during the time leading up to that launch. The fact that I knew him made that Columbia disaster all the more real for me because sometimes we see these things and they don't really hit you as hard as when someone there. But I listened to another one of your episodes where you said that NASA found after they looked at the whole space shuttle program that about one in every 75 space shuttle flights if I I have it correctly, was going to end in disaster.

And I wanted to ask you, figuring out that you still wanted to live your life, even risk your life for something that you were willing to pursue your passion because you loved it. Why were you willing to take risks like those that are involved in the space program to go after it? I think what I felt at the time where I still feel about it

is that I think you should be passionate about what you're doing to the point that you're willing to take a risk for it. That's the way I felt about the space program. I think some things are worth a risk. I felt the space program was, and I think a dream is, if you're trying to accomplish something in life, something whatever you're passionate about, there's always going to be risks involved. Some of them are maybe financial or risk of your time and maybe some of them even include

a risk of your life from time to time. And you don't want to be foolhardly about that at any means, but I don't think we were in the space program. I think we were very careful and cautious as best we could be. But I felt like that the exploration of space and being an astronaut with NASA was worth the risk that we were going to be taking. And I think that kind of shows you you're doing the right thing. And not that you want to do anything silly and hurt yourself or have anything that happen. But what you want to be passionate enough about what you're doing that you're willing to take that risk.

And when the Challenger accident happened, I was in between college and grad school working at IBM in New York City. And so I was getting ready to go to grad school to try to pursue this stream a few months later. And, but I was away from that. I was really part of the program then, of course, I was working for IBM and in New York. And when that happened, I felt isolated from being able to help us. Like, well, what can I do? This is a horrible thing. I wish I could be able to help in someone, be a part of it. And in some ways, it made me realize

how important it is to have something that you feel really strongly about, that seeing that accident didn't scare me at all. It solidified what I was really interested in doing that you should have a passion in your life that you will and risk your life for. And I wanted to be able to do something if an accident happened in the future. I wanted to be there to help solidified my interest and my passion for what I wanted to do.

I wanna talk about your journey to becoming an astronaut. I was recently watching a million miles away featuring fellow astronaut Jose Fernandez. Yeah. And I remember interviewing Caleb Aaron last year, who's a current astronaut for group 22. And I think what people don't understand is the selection process that goes into becoming an astronaut. She told me she was one of 12 out of 18,500 applicants. And to put that in a different perspective, you have a better chance of becoming a four star general

in the Marine Corps than you do an astronaut, which is the hardest thing to attain in the military. Can you walk us through the emotional rollercoaster of facing three rejections from NASA before you finally got the opportunity to pursue your dream? Sure, the hardest thing about becoming a astronaut and the hardest thing about a lot of things is just getting the opportunity to do it. As you said, the odds were against you and as there's a chapter in my book, the first chapter is entitled One in a Million is Not Zero.

I was coming up on my second rejection, and I didn't know about it yet. I knew I was gonna get rejected, by that point, people had been investigated their backgrounds, and they weren't looking, and no one was checking into me, so I hadn't been interviewed.

This is my second application, second time I was rejected. So I knew that their interviews were over, and I wasn't part of that, so I was gonna get rejected, although I hadn't gotten their official word for another week or so at this point. And I was watching the Academy Awards on TV. This is in 1992 and I was taking a break from the work I was doing to finish up my doctorate and went over to

they went live to the space shuttle on this one Academy Awards and the space shuttle crew was floating around and playing around with this statue that they had flown this Oscar that they had in space. And I knew with absolute clarity, John, that's what I wanted to do. The thought went to my mind, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be one of those people. And then it was a thought right after that that entered my mind, which was, but you'll never get a chance to do that.

That's impossible. Who gets to do that? I wasn't even getting any closer at all. I wasn't even a finalist. I wasn't getting any interview that time around, for example. That's where I felt a lot of times that it was just impossible. But then I put my fancy education at work at MIT and it was so well, one out of a million, which I thought my odds were, or maybe as Kayla said, one out of 18,500, or whatever it was back then, those I thought my odds were, or maybe as Kales said, one out of 18,500 or whatever it was back then, those are pretty low odds. That's not much, but it's not zero.

It's a very small number. And maybe if one out of a million is a bunch of zeros with a one at the end of it, but that's a non-zero outcome. And the only way that one disappears and it becomes a zero outcome, and you know what the result will be, is if you give up, once you give up with absolute certainty, you will not be successful. So I just tried to keep that in mind that this is unlikely, but it's not impossible, but the only way it becomes impossible is if I don't give it a try. And my friend, Joe Tory, the baseball manager said that I heard him say one

time, you can control the effort, but not the outcome. And you can practice as hard as long as you can, but you can't always control that outcome of whether or not you're going to win or lose, but you certainly can control the effort. And that's what I concentrated on was trying to control my effort, not give up, and at least give my dream a chance. And so yeah, I got just rejected it outright twice. Third time I got an interview and it was medically disqualified because of my eyesight. And when you get medically disqualified, what they told me was is that they won't even read my application again. So I couldn't even try anymore, which was really disappointing.

And they didn't accept lay sick or anything back then. Now it's all different. They've changed all the rules. So this is no longer an issue for me, but back then you had to see pretty well on current vision. And I couldn't do it. And I started talking to people to see what might be possible. And I learned about something called vision training, which are training your eyes and your brain to see better. It was like kind of focused at different different distances so that you could see better than you normally used to seeing. It

didn't seem like it was going to, I'm not sure it was definitely going to work, but I didn't have any other choice. So it's like, what else was definitely going to work, but I didn't have any other choice. So, it's like, what else am I going to do here? So, yeah, I gave it a try and it was able to pick up a couple lines on the eye chart to at least be able to apply again. I was able to send those results in and allowed me to at least apply again. And I was able to get another interview.

And then I got through the medical okay at that next time. And on my fourth try, I was picked after a series of about trying for 10 years. I think when you're trying to pursue something that is unlikely that requires good fortune. I think involved with it too but a lot of hard work and persistence. I think you have to be willing to do that and you owe it to yourself to give it a try. And the other thing is that if it never worked out, I wasn't doing things that I really were bad for me that I thought, you know, weren't good for me. I was going to graduate school and getting good work experience. And in working as a professor at the time at Georgia Tech when I was finally selected. So it wasn't like my efforts was leading me

toward a down a bad road. But it ultimately, it lead me toward the, towards success and trying to be an astronaut. But I think the main thing that it bring up in that first chapters, remember that one in a million is not zero. And if there's even the slightest chance for success, and that's what you dream is, you owe to yourself to give it a try. I can completely relate to you about this, I think.

I wanted to be a pilot when I was at the Naval Academy. But when I was growing up as a kid, I had a condition called Ampliopia, which means I had one eye much stronger than the other. So I tried and tried to pass the eye exam in the closest I could get was 2025. And I remember they were trying to work with me and I would spend hours trying to do this in the closest I got. I think was two out of five and I had to get three out of five to get qualified. I almost made it and it was so frustrating, but I wish I would have known more about your technique because similar to you, we,

LASIK wasn't an option and the other things you could do were quite dangerous especially if you were at altitude on how it could affect the eye. So I love that story. You never know. Everyone faces obstacles, some are unexpected, but whatever that obstacle is, you got to try to figure a way to get around it. Well, I have a upcoming book myself, which comes out in February, and one of the chapters I have on there is called, You Need to Be an Action Creator. And I based it on an interview I did with Wendy Lawrence, whom you know.

And she has this saying that you have to give yourself permission to dream the dream. And I'm sure similar to you, you both have probably spoken to thousands of different audiences during your time as an astronaut now. She tells me one of the things that really is alarming to her is how often she meets people who have these dreams and then they give up on them at the first setback that comes their way. What would be your advice for people, even if they have this one and a million shot

of pursuing their dream, how to face setbacks that we all know are going to come our way? I think realize that everyone faces setbacks and also successful people have. But you just can't let it stop you no matter what it is, no matter what that challenge is,

remember that if you're going into something difficult, and you're going to get rejected here and there, it's very rare for anyone to go through life without having a setback. And I think that's when the real test comes of who you are and how passionate you are about what you're doing. So just remember that you're not the first person who have failed at something.

And you wouldn't be the first person to give up either because of those failures, but I think the category you want to be in is the person that doesn't let those setbacks stop them. And they just keep going even when they some of it seems hopeless. Just got to keep going. So then you go into the astronaut program and I happened to be texting with another person

Sonny Williams last night to tell me an interesting story about you. She said that after you got in the program, you have a big boss who you all work for who must mistook you for another astronaut named Rick and Mr. O. I hear it's a pretty funny story and I was hoping he might be able to share it. Yeah, so my last thing is Massamino and Rick is Mastracio. Yeah, there was a big long Italian name with an M. It's both started with the same three letters, so that was enough to confuse me. I think that's maybe how I got selected as they thought I was him and they weren't sure. So they said, what the take the bolt them? But Rick and I are very good friends and I wish to get mistaken

all the time. In the clinic, they thought I was him half the time they thought he was me. I went to vote one year and it gave me his voting. I mean, this isn't me. And I had to personally like it, but they just, I, in Brooklyn, it wouldn't be a problem because there's a lot of different Italian names, but maybe down in Texas, around as many or something, and they weren't used to it. So we would get mistaken all the time., but maybe down in Texas, around as many or something, and then they weren't used to it. So we would get mistaken all the time. When I first arrived in NASA, Rick had worked at the Johnson Space Center. As I had I, but I was working for a contract with Donald Douglas, and then it was off at Georgia Tech, right before I got picked.

But Rick had been at the Johnson Space Center working. But the astronaut off is pretty closely. And someone came up to me and said, oh, I was great work you did on the STA, the shuttle training aircraft and all that stuff. I didn't even know what the STA was. It was like my first week of work. I'm like, you got the wrong guy. He's, no, you did a great job.

And then after I was there, okay, fine, good. So I would always get compliments based on work that Rick did, whereas I don't know what he, I don't think he got any compliments based on me, the people thinking he was me. But so it might have worked in my favor. Anyway, the story that son he's probably referring to is that there was a flight that was about to be assigned and

yeah, what it was, but it was like, but it was back in the flight that being their family experts. So I know that the flight took place. It was like September, October of 2000, or the year 2000. So probably about a year before that or so they were going to sign this crew and so Oh, the rumor was We thought it was going to be from our they were going to put a couple of my classmates on it and we all thought the rumor was it was going to be Rick Mistracchio and another one of my classmates Dan Burbank We're going to be assigned to this flight and I get a call

We were going to be assigned to this flight and I get a call They were cited what they were doing at the time is they would call you into the boss's office now over and building one The flight corrupt office and then they would tell everybody. Oh, you're going on the space flight So that's a big day right so I get a call from the boss's Secretary and I pick up the phone and she goes, hi Mike How you doing? I'm doing fine. How are you she goes? Oh, I'm doing okay? But why aren't you over here? And this is the, I know she's talking about the boss's office. And I'm like, am I in trouble? She goes, Oh, no, not at all.

And I go, I don't think you want me over there. I think you're looking for someone else. And she goes, hang on. And she goes and checks. Apparently she comes back to go, sorry, Mike, wrong guy. And she called the wrong guy. So I almost got Rick's flight assignment. I probably should have played along.

They met him, and they wouldn't have known maybe. And I could have got to the point where it was too late to have him to change their mind. But yeah, I almost got assigned to Rick Mistrakios first flight. So they didn't, I couldn't let it go that far. I knew what was going on. They just got us mixed up.

Because we got mixed up all the time. I'd love that story. And I didn't realize how much thought went into getting selected for these flights. I was talking to her scarcity about it. And the decisions he had to make when he was chief astronaut. Sometimes you've got a heavily Russian crew up there. And if a person's not good in Russian,

you can't send them up. Or maybe this is something that requires a specific type of ability to do a spacewalk, and if a person's not good at it, then you've got to scrub them from that mission, or there could be geopolitical things going on in the world that you need to take into consideration, or this or that. I'd never really understood how much thought went into who goes up and who doesn't. So interesting. Yeah, there's a lot to sometimes we wonder what they were coming up with because they were picking names out of a hat. I don't know if that's ever done, but I think typically they want to look

for a mixed skill set. You can't have all new guys or all experience. You usually try to get a good mix of veterans and new people and try to give opportunities to the newer people when you can. Remember, it was a French astronaut, Michel Tonini, when I was, he and I were working on a project together when I was new to the astronaut office. He was telling me about constructing a crew and he says, he goes, it's always good to have a funny guy on a crew. So you need one funny guy, right?

And he goes, but not too. He goes, only one. If you have two, then it becomes too much. It becomes like a gang and nothing gets done. You need one funny guy, right? And he goes, but not two. He goes, only one. If you have two, then it becomes too much. It becomes like a gang and nothing gets done. You need one funny guy. If you can't have a funny guy, that'd be great. But only one funny guy. Note that too.

So I thought that was interesting. And that probably is part of it too. You want to keep the crew personality mix if you can. But I think a lot of it is really what it comes out through. So you could do the job and who's going to get the job done and what is best for the goals of the program and the office and if they can maybe they throw a funny guy in there as part of that. When I was talking to Chris about you coming on the show I happen to get to see him face to face a couple of weeks ago.

He said, I can't tell you much about mass accept he is the funniest answer and I've ever met him. I've had a lot of good conversations with him. I remember doing we both Capcom the lot together we would do these handovers and we would just tell each other what was going on in our lives and there was some funny stories going back and forth. I think he's a funny guy too if you know what to ask him. Yeah. He does have that sense of humor. Yeah. Well, speaking of light heartedness, I understand that every class has given a nickname. Caleb Aaron, who I mentioned earlier, they were given the name, the turtles because of Hurricane Hit, as they were going through training.

How did you become part of Sardines? How do we get that name, you mean? Yes. So we were 35 Americans and nine international astronauts. So the most they'd ever picked in any astronaut class was the original set of shuttle astronauts back in 1978. They picked 35 Americans. So now they matched that number and then they had added

nine international astronauts. So we had eight different countries represented. So we were the largest class ever. I never had a class as large as ours since. Already the office was, you need more people, and even when you get any office, you don't want anybody else coming. We've got enough now. We don't need anybody else. We'll take care of it from you. But no, you want to, you always want to have more people come in. But at that time at the Hyde of the Shuttle Program, we were flying around five flights at a time and we were getting ready to build space station. We were still flying the shuttle.

There was a lot of projects, a lot of work going on. So when we were flying the shuttle, you had typically seven crew members per flight. And so there was a lot of international astronauts, but you were flying a lot of Americans, maybe 25, 30 Americans a year were flying in space. And the office had become small and we had a big growth in the number of astronauts. I connected to George Abby, who was the head of flight corroborations at the beginning of the shuttle program and then became the, at the time when I was selected, I think he was ahead of the Johnson Space Center and I think he saw the value of having a large astronaut core because you're not just flying in space,

you're also doing jobs on the ground. Most of what you're doing is on the ground. Most of us, even those of us who spend lots of time in space has spent the predominant amount of your careers on the ground. You have six years or so training typically before you fly your first flight. You have a lot of work for people to do and get ready and plan and support. We were added to a growing astronaut office where they had just had a class in 1995. It was supposed to be the class

in 1994, but there was some budget issues or something. So that class, they were picking every two years back then. So they were having a class coming in. So they had a class of 92 and then it was supposed to have a class of 94 and then they couldn't do that. So it ended up being a class of 95, but they wanted to stay back on the schedule. So then they had a class of 96. So they just had a group, that was a smaller group, maybe around 15 or so came in that time. But then we were coming in with 44 through what was perceived as a growing and already full office and where they were going stick us there is like, we were gonna be jammed in like sardines. That's how we got the nickname the sardines.

Well, I'm gonna jump back into the look. You write in your prologue and I'm gonna quote you, I had just enough smarts and talent and luck. Well, what I mostly had was determination, perseverance, and grit, combined with a passion that kept me going every time I got knocked, and I got knocked down a lot. As I was telling you before we came on, I define passion struck as the combination of passion and perseverance,

which is grit. Combined with intentionality, how do you think that your intentions have factored into how you have applied your grit? Your intentions being how you deliberately go after your goals. Oh, well, I think the grit comes in when things don't work out. When I decided that I wanted to somehow give it a try to become an astronaut, this was, after I had graduated from college,

or I had that little boy dream, and I'm like, I know this is impossible. And then after college, I got a job, as I said earlier, working at IBM, which was a great place to work. And I really enjoyed that time there, but really I didn't see it putting me on a path to get to space. And I could still have applied, but there's no way

I would be accepted with that. I had to do something. And so I thought there were different options in front of me. One would be maybe to go the route that you had taken, although it was too late for me to go to an academy, but maybe to think of joining a military. But I think that you had to have reasons, I thought that to do something that if it doesn't work out as an astronaut, that's the only reason why you shouldn't do that for the only reason that I'm going to go join a military to become an astronaut. I have so much respect for you and Chris and all the other people you've mentioned, I do that

deep amount of gratitude. And I wanted to serve my country, but I didn't think the military was the best way for me to do that. So I wasn't about to do that. So then I thought, okay, and I don't do that. What's my other option? It was more the academic route. And I felt like I needed more education, which I was interested in getting anyway. And my intention at that point was to go to graduate school and get a degree, if it could lead me to the astronaut program great, but if not, at least it could lead me to a career in the space program. And John, I thought that was a little more reasonable. But at least maybe I could work and help other people go to space, even if I couldn't go myself. I could be part of the team that puts people in space and tries to self-summit the problems related to that in space and tries to solve some of the problems

related to that. So, that seemed to be so much of a reasonable thing. And so, I put my intention in that area to go to grad school and I was lucky enough to get into MIT and to study space-related research in areas that I was interested in, which was human-machine systems and robot versus machine, or robots versus people, was there's always this debate, technology and AI now and versus people, but even back then,

back in the 80s, that was a question of who's gonna explore space, humans or machines, but I always felt it was a combination of humans with machines. And so human control and robotics is what I got into for space exploration and that was something I had some preparation for in college and an interest in and so it's my intention was to number one Try to become an astronaut or at least get a competitive application together where I wasn't just trying to win the lottery

But I felt I was giving myself a chance to be a good candidate and And then if that didn't work out, a way to contribute to the space program, I didn't know what that was going to mean. It turned out that it could have been astronaut or could have been a professor or faculty member or engineer who knows what. But I knew that the graduate, at least I felt in my case, the graduate degree was a really important thing to pursue with space-related research and try to get relationships with NASA. So I knew what was happening. So I worked for the summers with NASA and ended up getting a NASA fellowship for grad school. Got to know a lot of people at the space centers. And so that was, I guess, that was

one of my intentions. Now, when you decide you want to go to grad school, you're going to get hit with some obstacles like exams and tests and one of my biggest obstacles trying to get my PhD was failing my qualifying exam. But at MIT, if you want to get a PhD, you have to pass this qualifying exam, which was both written and oral. So you have these written parts of the test in different subjects, and then you have an oral exam

in front of the faculty. And it could be brutal, not on purpose, but they're trying to test you, but also have you think and see how you're doing. And so typically if you failed, then not everyone passed on the first try. I think it was maybe 50, 50 at that point. But most of the time, if you're willing to go through

this torture a second time, you pass, most people pass a second time. Occasionally, that didn't work either. But, and then that was, you probably, you had options at that point. So I went in and took the thing and got destroyed. And I failed it, miserably. And I went in to see my advisor after to get the bad news.

And he was like, you didn't really do well and you didn't pass, and he wasn't good. And then it was like so overwhelmingly bad. I don't think you really had any suggestions for him. He was just like, just a disaster. I don't really, it was just good. And then it was like so overwhelmingly bad. I don't think you really had any suggestions for me. It was like, just a disaster. I don't really, it was just terrible. And especially during the oral exam, I was just, I had vapor lock. I just got the, it started asking me questions and I couldn't answer it and they just, they just, they just came at me more or less, which is what their job was. And then, and I said, well, it was a story. Can I at least try again? And he goes, well, you can try again, but you might want to think about it.

If it's worth your time. And he said, I remember him saying this to me. He was a very kind man. He's still alive. He's still a concerted him a friend, but he was, he's a fatherly figure. He was more older than I was, much older. And he could have my father's age. He said, man, I'd be cut out for this mic.

And you need to think apart whether or not you want to try again. Because based on the way I performed on the first exam, there was no way that was going to, that they thought I could turn it around and pass a second time. And I was pretty tough to hear, but I thought about it for a while. I'm thinking, well, what do we really have to lose? Six months is going to go by anyway. And I was already at the school and I had a place to live. I just, I know, could take more time.

I was still in roll. There was another six months of education and I was funded too. I was getting, my funding wasn't going to stop because of this, so I could try again. So I was like, well, let me give it a try. So I went back to him a couple days later and told him that I wanted to try again. And he gave me this little smile. And he said, Mike, if any speaking from generalities as an MIT professor might be said, if one can learn to withstand indignities, one can go

far in life. This is what he told me. And he just pulled that one out of his hat there. And I thought that was a pretty good way to fancy way to put it that if you can withstand getting beat up the indignities, he called it because it was, I went through indignities during that exam If you can learn that you can put up with that and still go you can go far and I think it was in some ways He was happy. I was going to give it another try and then I changed my approach and I studied differently and I had my friends Help me pummel me with questions so I could be prepared for a normal exam from these smart professors and I was able to pull it out

The second time through. The idea is that my, my, my, I mean, going back to your question, intention and then needing perseverance and grit, my intention was to try to get a PhD if I could from MIT, that was my intention. And then once you have that as a goal or an intention or something you want to do, get ready to get knocked down a bit. And it doesn't always happen that way. Some people are able to get through it. They're better prepared than I was, perhaps.

A lot of people did pass that exam on the first try, but didn't work that way for me. And so I had to get up and try it again. And I'm very glad I did, of course. I heard you tell that same story on another podcast and the podcaster kind of ruined the moment because he said he had run into the same thing at Carnegie Mellon, but then never took the test again. Yeah, that's a thing. I'm not taking it again as rough.

I remember when I fell before I went back to my advisor, I called the Dean's office. It's always interesting. I find that if you look back at these times in your life, I think it's almost like these guardian angels are there to help you. And I remember calling the Dean's Office, and it was at Dean at the time, was Frank Perkins. And I knew who he was, and he knew me. And what I wanted to do was I was thinking of changing my degree. I've not going for the PhD, but going, I already got my master degree, but going for a degree

called the engineer's degree, which a lot of military people got, by the way, but going, I already got my master's degree, but going for a degree called the engineer's degree, which a lot of military people got by the way. We had a lot of military guys and men and women up at MIT and they had enough time there to be able to get not just the masters, but take extra classes and get the engineer's degree, which was more coursework and twice the coursework and you do an extra thesis component. It's not the PhD, so if you have a little more time, let's say, then to get the master degree, you can get that. So it was a pretty popular degree. I remember, especially among some of the military friends I had up in grad school, but I was thinking, all right, well, I've got all these other classes. Maybe it's a switch from PhD to the engineer's degree

and get out while I can. I didn't know the semester, let's say. And I remember calling the Dean's Office to see, back then, that's when we would call people. Emriel wasn't that popular back then, but you'd get on the phone, yeah. So I called the Dean's office, and Dean Perkins wasn't able to get him. Ike Colbert was the associate dean, and he took my call. And I remember telling him the situation,

and I was thinking about filing the paperwork to go to, and he said to me, he goes, Mike, he says, and I didn't know him very well. It was the other Dean that I knew well, and he goes, Mike, he said, you wanna think real know him very well. It was the other Dean that I knew well, and he goes, Mike, he said, you want to think real hard about this next decision you're going to make. You have this great opportunity in front of you.

I know you've been knocked down, but you want to think really hard before you give up that big brass ring. I remember him saying that. And I think what he meant was the MIT ring that you get when you graduate at the brass. They call it a brass rat, because it's a beaver, which is the school's mascot on a brass ring. I don't know if that's what he was talking about,

if he's talking about, like, on the merry go around the brass ring or the expression. But I remember him saying that and hit me. You want to give yourself a chance to succeed here. And that was one of the things who was great that Dean Colbert was able to take my call that day and give me that to think about. And then I decided to give another try and made it. And it's not anything different with the astronaut program too.

In that case where you get knocked down, and I also talk about it in the book that when I was at Georgia Tech, this was after my third rejection when I got medically disqualified. I was still trying to get back in the game. There was a guy there who had also interviewed in my, for the astronaut class I was trying to get into. And I was, so there's just sitting out my desk one day and like my first week at work at George Attack, after being rejected this third time and moving my family with Lana. This faculty member pox's head in my office says, Hey, you interviewed to be an astronaut and I go, yeah, we had a guy over and some other to pop up with the department was electrical engineering or someplace computer sciences and he also interviewed me go really.

And so I wrote this guy a note or called him up or whatever and they said, but this time it was a few years later we had email back then. So I think I might have emailed the guy or whatever I did to get all the money, you invited me over to his house for a barbecue with my family. And he was really together and smart and on his way to 10 year. And I figured, and if they don't pick him, they're never going to pick me. I don't stay in a chance. It's guys really impressive. And I asked them, of course, this afternoon, cooking hamburgers, I said, you think you're going to try to become a man, you're going to apply again. And he looks at me and he says, no, I'm not. And I said, well, why would you not try again? And he says, well, they turned me down once.

They'll probably just turn me down again. And I hate to tell you this, John, but I gave him no encouragement. I just shut right up. And he was like, okay, right then I knew that he had given up and there was no chance he's ever getting selected. They're not gonna come knock on anybody's door for an opportunity like that.

As you go back to the story you were telling about Wendy, yeah, a lot of you got to wonder though, if people give up, does it really mean that much to them? I think in this guy's case, he was on a great career path, becoming a, I'm sure, I don't know what happened, but I bet he became a tenured professor, it did something great too, and a lot of people just find out it's not for them, but I think you have to be really honest with yourself. Is that really not for me? Do I really want to give this up? When I write about it in the book, what are you going to think about yourself years from now? Do you want to regret?

Are you going to wonder what if I did this or that? You're going to have that in life anyway. You always say, ah, I should have done this or that. Whatever. I think that's something that's going to happen everybody anyway. But you'll want to minimize that, especially for the things.

But you want to try to minimize those regrets. And I think especially when it comes to a live stream. So hopefully, folks I'd give up are giving up because there's something else they'd rather pursue. But you've really got to be honest with yourself, and that was part of my problem too. I don't know, problems are a word, but to be honest with myself, to know that

what I wanted to do was something that was near and possible to get the opportunity to do, I just, I had to realize that that was the case. And I can say, I really doesn't matter. I really don't care. But that's not what I felt in my heart. If I really looked inside, I was honest with myself, it's something I really wanted to do. And then I was faced with the reality, well, this is going to be really hard and get ready for the ride. Now, you might not know this, but Wendy told me when she was at MIT, she was failing a class and she thought she was looking at her aspiration to becoming an astronaut as it was going out the window.

And similar to the story you tell, she said, well, I can just assume the worst that I'm never going to be able to understand this Greek that they're teaching me, or I can double down, ask for help. Something that you talk about in the book and get assistance in overcoming this challenge that I'm facing and that's exactly what she did and she was able to get in the towel when it can be our moment of actually breaking through and as I was reading your book was thinking about after getting these rejection letters finally getting the acceptance letter. And then receiving this warning that you need to practice or swimming school skills. Yeah. And then you tell the audience why that set off alarm bells for you? Yeah, John, I, like you and the Navy, I avoided the water.

I wanted to grow it up. I just never really learned to swim very well. I didn't like it. I was a skinny kid. I was always, I was always cold when I was in the water. I didn't take the swimming lessons. I might have been 10 or 11 when my mom forced me to try to learn a swim, but then I was like trying to fake it anyway.

So I never really learned that I just avoided the water I could get by a little bit. But I didn't enjoy swimming. I didn't like the water. And then after you get accepted as an astronaut, I got this letter saying, in the welcome letter, it said, congratulations. At first you get a phone call.

That's how you find out in any info packet comes. And it said, please practice your swimming because you're going to have to pass a swim test in order to go through water survival training with the Navy. I was like, what? And I was, I was like, both happy and sad. I was horrified that I was going to have to do this, but I was really excited that they didn't ask me if I could swim during the day. I asked everything during the interview and they do this extensive background search and everything else.

And not once was my swimming skills ever questioned. So I was really grateful that they never asked me because if they did, I would have been like maybe not. But maybe they just felt like most people, it was like a life skill that everyone should have. And it's like making a grilled cheese sandwich. It should be something in how to do. So I think they were figuring out this kind of must not have. I don't know, they didn't question me before, but they were saying practice of swimming.

Or maybe they felt it was something that they could teach you if need be. And they wanted us to practice and so on. So that's what I did. And they gave us all the requirements that we were gonna have to perform in order to pass the swim test in order to go to Warsaw by the way with the Navy and Pensacola. And I wasn't feeling good about this.

And we showed up for work. And after the first week that Friday, before the beginning of the weekend, on a Friday afternoon, all the sardines were sitting in a classroom. And the first week was a lot of administrative stuff. We did get a visit from Neil Armstrong, which was cool. But he happened to be in town and came and spoke to us, which was a lot of administrative stuff. We did get a visit from Neil Armstrong, which was cool, that he happened to be in town, and came and spoke to us, which was something I'll never forget. And there was mainly administrative.

And then on Friday, as we're getting ready to go home for the weekend, Jeff Aspie was a Navy pilot in a class ahead of ours was our sponsor, helping us get through our training. He said, first week's over, and before you go home for the weekend, I want to remind everybody that Monday our training starts an earnest with the swim test. Oh, man, of all things, a swim test. Yeah, like, can we have a math quiz? Because something else doesn't have to be a swim. It's going to be the swim test in my heart, sunk. But then

he goes on to say, who are the strong swimmers in this group? And we had a few people raise their hand. We had Heidi Piper and Lee Morn, who were certified Navy divers. They had that certification. And we had some other people that felt they were strong swimmers. And they said, okay, and Jeff continues, who are the weak swimmers?

And I raised my hand as a couple of the other guys and the other people in my class. And they said, everyone else can go home, but the strong swimmers and the weak swimmers are going to stay after class and you're going to arrange a time to meet over the weekend and the strong swimmers are going to help the weak swimmers with their swimming because when we go to the pool on Monday no one leaves the pool until everyone passes that test and that kind of set up the world that I was going to be in which I think John came out of what you had gone through in the academy and in the military was this idea that there's no individual success.

I mean, individual accomplishments and promotions and good fitness reports and all that stuff are great, but what really matters is how the mission is going on and how the team does. That's really your measure of success. And you could be Michael Phelps, but if you let one of your classmates not pass, if you didn't help one of your classmates fail, then really you failed because you didn't help them. And on my end, I didn't want to be the person keeping back the whole class. So it really gave me that incentive to try to push a little more. And I think that kind of helps on both ends. And with that attitude, the stronger folks in something will help

the weaker ones and the weaker ones, not to hold back the team will accept that help. So you give help when you can give it and you accept help when you need it and admit that you need it and sometimes that's harder. But we all went to the pool on that Monday and we all did a pass in a test together. Academy, one of the things that they really double down on you is that your life depends upon the person next to you because you each have strengths and weaknesses and there's going to come a time when you're going to need their expertise. And this whole swimming thing resonates directly with me because I had a friend when I was going through Vinnie Smith, was a football player. We went to prep school together. And in order to graduate, you have to jump off

the 10 meter board. But more importantly, you had to do this swim. I can't remember the distance, but you had to swim it in full uniform. You couldn't touch the side of the pool. And Vinnie had basically no fat on him. So when he would just sink. Yeah. And so I remember myself and a couple other people swam the whole thing next to them and practice with them to get through this. And then luckily he went Marine Corp because I've heard stories about that swim test where some guys you can jump off that platform with other guys. You can hold hands and it's an exercise and getting everyone through it. From that's what I've heard. If push comes to shove, they will get you over that thing anyway.

They can. I don't think I personally would want to have to do that. Yes. I was really practiced at doing it because once you jump, it's a lot farther than you think. But while speaking of jumping, I remember going through the training exercises. The first time I got into a T-38 and the exercises of if you were going to have to bail and I understand you yourself learned a pretty painful lesson when you were the copilot of a T-38 on the need to speak up and I was hoping you could share that lesson

Yeah, certainly it's in the chapter in the book called Speak Up, which we were encouraged to do. And we had, before we got trained to fly as a co-pilot in a T-38, coming in as a civilian with no high performance jet time, I was going to be the novice here, right? Along with a lot of other people, but we were going to be flying with very experienced pilots, all the pilots, the military pilots in my astronaut class, plus other pilots who were astronauts who weren't in my class, plus instructor pilots. All these folks had thousands of hours in high performance jet, a lot of them had flown combat, they had test pilots, most of them.

So they were the best pilots in the world, right? And they're going to be in a front, I'm going to be in the back, and I'm the new guy, not knowing even how to strap in. One of my first flights was with an Air Force guy, Air Force pilot Jim Kelly, Vegas. And he was my astronaut classmate, and good guy, immediately became friends. And he was going out on a night flight.

He wanted to get some nighttime. So he was gonna go out to San Antonio and then we come back at nighttime to log nighttime. And they asked if I wanted to go with them, and I was like, yeah, sure. We flew out there and everything was fun and Joe Viel's flying. He was showing me stuff was great.

And then we're coming back and night things get a little different. Just when the sun goes down, you lose, I think, right there, you lose some awareness of what's happening. You can't see as well. You know, it's the end of the day, you're maybe a little more tired. So mistakes, I think in general,

you've got, I think your antennas to go up at night time when you're operating and doing something. And as we're getting ready to go to the runway, you're still getting our clearance. The controller tells us to turn to a heading, a 360, let's say. And so if I put that in the flight computer, which is my job, I only have about two or three hours. It's like my fourth or fifth flight now coming up, including a one that we took to get out to San Antonio. And Vegas has 8,000 hours and a very accomplished pilot.

Anyway, so I put that heading in there and then we taxi out to the runway and then on the runway before getting cleared for takeoff, they changed the heading. So I think I said maybe 360 and he changed its to say to 180. So we have a new heading and I put that in there and we rolled down the runway. He looked like he had to burn her and as he takes off, he starts heading toward the first heading that we got when we were still getting ready for taxi, right? Still getting clearance. And I see him going in a wrong way and I see where I put the heading bug to go the other way. He's just going by what he heard. He's on his way. And I thought to myself, what do I know? This is the experience guy in front of me. I he's kind of know what he's doing. Maybe

I misheard. And right at that moment, when I was thinking that as we're going in the wrong direction, at a high speed, the tower controller comes over and says, and that's a 9-1-1, make a hard right turn now, now, right turn now. So he whips the airplane off into the correct direction. And whoa, he said, what was that? He goes, did they change our heading? Did I miss something? And I go, yeah, they changed it. And he goes, they did. I go, yeah, it's right there on the heading bug. I put it right in there in a flight computer too. And he said, you know, we were going in, I was going in a wrong direction. And you didn't say anything. And I said something like, I thought you knew what you were doing. And

then, and that was it. We didn't hear anything. There was no chatter anymore after that. We just executed the flight. And once we landed, when we got on the ground, I vegased God in my faith. He wasn't mean about it or anything. He was very serious. And what had happened was we almost had a midair with another airplane that had shown up coming into that airfield. So we got it. We almost ran into this other airplane because I didn't say anything. But he would get out of the airplane and he says, look, Mass, we almost got killed because I went in the wrong direction. But you almost got us killed because you didn't speak up.

And the most, the number one lesson you need to learn from tonight is speak up. Even if you think you're wrong, if you think you see something or notice something, if you're wrong, I will tell you you're wrong, but I'll always thank you for speaking up, but you have to speak up. You can't not say anything. And that was a lesson that I learned in a future occurrence when I was a face with that situation.

I would never hesitate to speak up. And sometimes I was wrong, but it's better to speak up and be wrong than to stay quiet and have something bad at. Well, Mike, we've just touched on the surface of your book today. I'm going to just bring up some of the other chapters that you have. Trust your training, trust your gear and trust your team. You can always make it worse. You go into the first rule of leadership. your team. You can always make it worse. You go into the first rule of leadership. Chapter called Houston, we have a problem. The 32nd rule will be amazed and no wind to pivot. Definitely a book, just like your other New York Times bestselling book, that the listener

definitely wants to check out. I wanted to end the discussion on this question. You are one of the lucky few people who have experienced this phenomenon called the overview effect and the awe of looking down on our planet. In a world that for so many people feels mundane today, experiencing that overview effect and that feeling of oneness, how did it change your view of the topic of mattering, like how you mattered and how other people matter. There's a chapter in a book that talks about it's called The Amazed and it's a bit looking at our planet it from space I thought I was looking into absolute paradise and can't imagine any place

being more beautiful than our planet, our home. And I think as far as this mattering, I think we matter a lot because we've got a really cool place to live. I think there might be, I believe that there is life other places. I don't think we've encountered it yet, but I think we're going to find each other at some point. But I would be shocked if wherever they are,

they have a place as beautiful as our planet. And I think we are in a very unique spot. It's a complete and utter paradise that we're living in. And I think you see it's true beauty from space. And maybe that's what people define as the overview effect is seeing how beautiful our play or gives you that perspective. We don't have any, you go to a top of a building

and look down at the city, or even just a few stories out on a balcony looking out over an area. You can't, you get a different perspective of it? And that space is a huge change in perspective where you get to see the whole planet pretty much. And it's just beautiful and it's amazing. And, but it also I think affects what you can appreciate on the ground, at least for me.

I'm here right now on a trip in Boston. And it's the full college around. And I was looking at the blue sky yesterday appreciate on the ground, at least for me. I'm here right now on a trip in Boston and it's the full college route. And I was looking at the blue sky yesterday and with some wiffy clouds going by and looking through a telescope last night at the moon and Jupiter. And there's so many cool things to look at here on our planet. So you can look at it from afar from space and see, I think, the way it's supposed to be seen in some ways. That total beauty coming at you in a different perspective. But I think we have to remember we're in it all the time. And every day we have to interact in this planet that we have, this home that we have,

whether it's with nature or even the buildings, what people have created. I don't, I try not to mind crowds anymore. I like being around people because in space you're not around them as much. I miss that, I miss going to big gatherings. I, you miss the smells of earth. You miss the sounds, the weather. We don't have any of that in space. So I think it gives you an opportunity

to appreciate how beautiful and fragile the planet is. But I think you need to bring that with you and share with others to appreciate them looking at the window now, the beauty that we enjoy every day. If you're in the country or in the city, there's really a spectacular place we live in. Okay, and then one other quick just follow on to that is we're not that far away from potentially doing the mission to Mars. If you were one of the astronauts still in active duty and you were selected for that mission,

and it was gonna be a long duration one in the powers that be said, you could create an edict, a law, whatever word you wanna call it for Mars. What would yours be? That's a good question. Onward to Mars. I think what I guess what I would think about that,

any of that opportunity, I think everything that we do in space is to help people in planet Earth. So the first thing that comes to mind, John, and you didn't prepare me for this question. So this is an honest answer here, right? So I would say, for me, it would be on tomorrow's to benefit Earth is what I would say.

Because I've heard these stories like, or I was part of a debate. Now I'm not a debater, but I was doing a favor for friends, supposedly, to be a part of the defend, leaving the planet versus staying and making it better. And I was on the space side of it, but I was like, what the heck kind of choice is this? We don't go to space to... We are leaving the planet, but we don't go to space to abandon Earth.

The worst place on Earth is a paradise anywhere else. There's no place on Mars. It's an inhospitable, unlivable place. We're going to have to figure out a way to live there. It's going to be challenging. But I think it's not about leaving the earth for good. It's about leaving the earth to understand how we can make earth a better place. And so that's what I would say is we're doing this mission, not just to explore Mars, but to develop technology and understand our planet, our home planet and make it a better place to live for everybody. Well, I love that answer, Mike.

And we're just in that place. I was worried, man. I didn't ask that question. John, or what it was going to say. It was a little worried, but thank you. Where's the best place a listener can go to learn more about you, and we'll obviously have the book in the show. Thanks.

Well, I have a website. Maybe that's a good place. MikeMasamino.com might be a good place to go. You can follow me on Instagram and Twitter. I was a first guy to tweet from space, a master on the score mic. I don't know what they call Twitter now, it's something else, X or whatever. X. Instagram, a master on MikeMasamino and I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn.

So feel free to reach out. That's where you can find me. And on the website, there's a way to contact me on the website as well. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. It was such an incredible honor to have you. And congratulations on the launch of your book. Thank you. And thank you for your service to our country and the Navy. I'm glad you hung out with some pretty cool peoples. Yeah, that's that's and thank you for your service to our country in the Navy. I'm glad you're

hung out with some pretty cool people. Yeah, that's that's a thank you for that. And thank you for having me on the show and promoting the book too, John. It's very nice spending some time with you. You're absolutely welcome. It was completely my honor to have you. Thank you, John. I thoroughly enjoyed today's interview with Dr. Mike Massimino and I wanted to thank Mike, Alyssa Fartanado and also Hatchette Books for the honor and privilege of having them appear on today's show. Links to all things Mike will be in the show notes. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. All proceeds go to supporting the show. Videos are on YouTube, both on our

main channel, John Armiles, and on our Clips channel, PassionStruck Clips. Avertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. You can find me on all the social platforms at John R. Miles, sign up for my work related newsletter, work intentionally on LinkedIn, or my personal development newsletter live intentionally at passionstruck.com.

Also on passionstruck.com. Also on the passionstruck website, you can now take a quiz, understand where you sit on the PassionStruck continuum. You can find that on our book page at passionstruck.com slash PassionStruckBook. You're about to hear a preview of the PassionStruck podcast interview that I did with my friend Gordy Ball, the founder of the conscious thought revolution, and the author of the new Wall Street Journal bestselling book, The New Millionaires Playbook, Seven Keys, One

Locked Freedom, Purpose, one lock for item, purpose, and abundance. Over the next 10 years, we are undergoing the largest wealth transfer in modern history. Accenture reports that there will be over $70 trillion that are moving hands from the boomer generation to millennials and Gen Z. And millennials and Gen Z have a much different set of values than the boomer generation. They care more about sustainability, regeneration, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, physical health.

This affords the greatest opportunity to generate abundance as well. So for those who are feeling that life does look hopeless and at moments it may, but really that is the universe really calling us forward and saying it's really time to wake up, discover your purpose, raise your consciousness, and shine your light bright because the opportunity to generate abundance now is like never before. Remember that we rise by lifting others, so share this show with those that you love and care about.

And if you found today's episode with Mike Massimino on the Top of the Comunis Shot, inspirational, but definitely share this show with those that you love and care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. And until next time, go out there and become Ash and struck.