Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Morley Robbins on How You Reclaim Your Vitality and Health EP 469

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

In this podcast episode of Passion Struck, host Jon R. Miles interviews Morley Robbins, an expert in wellness and creator of the Root Cause Protocol. Morley discusses the importance of copper in human health and vitality, highlighting the decline in copper availability over generations. He emphasizes the role of copper in regulating metabolic activity and energy production in the body. Morley also delves into the impact of mineral interactions, particularly magnesium, on overall health. The Root Cause Protocol, outlined in phases, focuses on avoiding iron-fortified foods, stopping zinc supplements, and refraining from fluoride use. Morley challenges conventional beliefs about vitamin D supplementation and emphasizes the significance of bioavailable copper in maintaining optimal health. Through his research and insights, Morley aims to educate listeners on the importance of nutrient balance and its impact on overall well-being.Order a copy of my book, "Passion Struck: Twelve Powerful Principles to Unlock Your Purpose and Ignite Your Most Intentional Life," today! This book, a 2024 must-read chosen by the Next Big Idea Club, has garnered multiple accolades, including the Business Minds Best Book Award, the Eric Hoffer Award, and the Non-Fiction Book Awards Gold Medal. Don't miss out on the opportunity to transform your life with these powerful principles!Full show notes and resources can be found here: In this episode, you will learn:The generational decline in copper availability is due to changes in farming, food, and pharmaceutical systems.The pivotal role of copper in human health and vitality influences crucial biochemical reactions and energy levels.The importance of addressing nutrient deficiencies, particularly in copper and magnesium, for holistic wellness.The Root Cause Protocol, focusing on stops and starts to optimize health by avoiding iron-fortified foods, zinc supplements, and fluoride toothpaste.The correlation between vitamin D levels and inflammation emphasizes the need to address underlying issues rather than just supplementing.The misinformation surrounding the benefits of fluoride in dental health, with concerns about its impact on copper and magnesium levels.All things Morley Robbins: https://therootcauseprotocol.com/about/morley-robbins/SponsorsBrought to you by Clariton, fast and powerful relief is just a quick trip away. Ask for Claritin-D at your local pharmacy counter. You don’t even need a prescription! Go to “CLARITIN DOT COM” right now for a discount so you can Live Claritin Clear.--► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to:https://passionstruck.com/deals/Catch More of Passion StruckCan't miss my episode with Hari Budha Magar on Defy Your Limits to Conquer Your EverestListen to my interview with Jen Bricker-Bauer On Everything is PossibleWatch my episode with Staff Sergeant Travis Mills on How You Bounce Back and Rise Above AdversityListen to my solo episode on 7 Reasons Why Acts of Kindness Are More than Meets the EyeLike this show? Please leave us a review here-- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally!

Coming up next on Passion Strike. In the 1930s, it was very common to get between four and six milligrams of copper in a daily diet. That's a lot of copper. By the 1960s, that number had dropped to two to five milligrams of copper. And by the current day, the RDA for today is nine tenths of one milligram. for today is nine-tenths of one milligram. But most people don't even get that. 60% of people don't even get nine-tenths of one milligram of copper. And so we just have to be mindful that there's been this generational decline in the availability of copper. In large part, changes in the farming system, changes in the food system, changes in the pharmaceutical system have altered our access to this mineral.

NIH has what's called an upper tolerable limit for copper at 12 milligrams, and yet we're supposed to believe the narrative, I'm anemic and I'm copper toxic. But in fact, the truth is just the opposite. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, I'm copper toxic. When in fact the truth is just the opposite. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice

for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passion struck. Hello everyone.

Welcome back to episode 469 of passion struck. A heartfelt thank you to each and every one of you who return to the show every week, eager to listen, to learn, and to discover new ways to live better, be better, and most importantly, to make a meaningful impact in the world. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here,

or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or a family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that. We have episodes, starter packs, which are collections of our fans' favorite episodes that we organize into convenient playlists that give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do here on the show. Either go to Spotify or passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. In case you missed it, last week I had two great interviews with Ryan Holiday and Noam Platt. Ryan, who's known for his thought provoking works on stoicism and personal growth discusses his

latest groundbreaking book, Right Thing Right Now. In this not to be missed conversation, we explored the virtues that make a fulfilled life, how stoicism can address the challenges of modern society, and why doing the right thing matters more than ever in today's world? In my interview with Noam Platt, founder of MakeGood, we explore the transformative world of assistive technology and social impact. We'll discover how Noam and his team are revolutionizing the lives of individuals with disabilities

through custom designed equipment and a commitment to accessibility. I also wanted to say thank you for your ratings and reviews. And if you love today's episode or either of those others, we would appreciate you giving it a five-star review and sharing it with your friends and families. I know we and our guests love to see comments from our listeners. Today, we delve deep into the fascinating realm

of human health with an esteemed guest whose insights are posed to revolutionize the way we perceive fatigue and vitality. Joining us is Morley Robbins, a renowned expert in the field of wellness and the creator of the Root Cause Protocol. With his groundbreaking book, Cure Your Fatigue, The Root Cause and How to Fix It on Your Own Terms, Morley unveils the pivotal role of copper in human health and vitality. In this captivating interview, we explore why copper reigns supreme among minerals,

how it influences crucial biochemical reactions within our bodies and its profound impact on our energy levels and our overall well-being. From unraveling the connection between copper and iron levels to shedding the light on the role of psoroloplasm in immunity and oxidative stress management, Morley offers invaluable insights that promise to empower listeners on their journey to optimal health. Drawing upon his extensive research and expertise, Morley presents a compelling case for redefining our approach to fatigue and metabolic syndrome, shedding light on the underlying causes and offering practical solutions to reclaim our vitality.

As the magnesium man, Morley's deep understanding of mineral interactions and their implications for health underscores the importance of addressing nutrient deficiencies for holistic wellness. Join us as Morley Robbins shares his wisdom and introduces us to the transformative power of the root cause protocol. Thank you for choosing Passionstruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I am absolutely thrilled and honored today to have Morley Robbins on Passion Struck.

Welcome Morley. Glad to be here, John. Looking forward to our discussion. Over the past three to four months, I've probably had 10 different listeners ask for you to be on the podcast, So I'm glad we could finally make this happen. But for those listeners who might not be aware of who you are, I think it's important to start with your backstory. And you had worked for over 30 years in mainstream medicine as a hospital executive and as a consultant. And then you end up developing a

condition known as frozen shoulder. Can you tell us about this story and how it caused you to question everything you thought you knew about healing and mainstream medicine? My date with destiny. Yeah, I'd been pulling a suitcase behind my back for 20 years, going from one airport to another, solving problems for hospitals. And finally, my body said, we're done with this. We're not doing this anymore. And a lot of pain, couldn't sleep. So I went to a health food store that I had frequented for many years. Said, what do you have for a frozen shoulder? And I said, you need to go see Dr. Liz. And I went, hey, I don't do witchcraft.

Just sell me some supplements. Because I was pretty hardcore allopathic and supplements didn't work. I came back a couple of months later and said, you must have something stronger. And the owner would happen to be there that day. She looked me in the eye, she said, Marlee, we love you. Go see Dr. Liz.

So I went to see Dr. Liz, who at the time was a very much sought after chiropractor in the Chicago area. And I walked into her treatment room that had nine tables in it, because she would do a flight of nine people every hour. I was like, oh my God, what am I getting into? And in two sessions, she completely healed my shoulder by focusing on the pterygoid muscle

up here in the jaw. Turns out that this TMJ joint controls the shoulder. I didn't know that. And in our conversation that followed that miraculous healing, she used a phrase I'd never heard in 32 years of working in hospitals. She was talking about the innate healer. And I thought to myself, I didn't say anything to her, but I thought, if there's an innate healer, why do we have millions of doctors around the world? If there's a healer within, I want to know about that. And so that's what started my research quest over the last 15 years. And now, seven days a week,

three hours a day, rain or shine, I'm over a cup of coffee, waiting for the download, going through my internet feed to see what I'm supposed to do next. And it's become this amazing journey of discovery. And that's what really resulted in the book. Cure Your Fatigue was my distillation of the research that it's actually bioavailable copper that works through a network of what are called cuproenzymes to regulate the metabolic activity of our body. And the title is Cure, with brackets around the CU, Cure Your Fatigue. And what most people don't know, especially your practitioner, is that 100% of the symptoms that start in your body begin with cellular energy deficiency. And that's the work of Douglas Wallace,

a world renowned biologist in geneticists at CHOP Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania. And it's just great unknown about how the breakdown of energy production leads to chaos in our body. Yeah, and I just wanna back up to that because I've heard you talk previously about why fatigue is the starting point for many of our health conditions. A lot of people when they think of fatigue, they think of it as sleep deficiency, which probably is a portion of it, but a bigger aspect of this is metabolic related.

It's cellular. People have been trained to believe that the mitochondria are just energy furnaces or it's a power plant. It's not. Think of a GM plant making automobiles and trucks. It has its own power system, but it's making stuff all day long. That's your mitochondria. Mitochondria is a thousand times more important than the nucleus. The nucleus is just a Xerox machine just spitting out proteins and things. And then they've got to be folded right. So there's a Chinese laundry called the endoplasmic reticulum. Guess what energizes the folding process? Copper. And there can be static given off called oxidants.

And there's an enzyme called endoplasmic reticulum oxidase. Have you ever heard of it? Of course not. And that's a copper dependent enzyme that makes sure that the proteins get folded properly. And if they don't get folded properly, it causes stress inside the cell. And then when that stress builds, it's going to dump calcium into the cell. And then we've got a metabolic breakdown at that point. So it's just, it's a nuanced understanding about what really runs the body. And most people have a high school image of their high school biology textbook, picture of the cell,

and it had two or three mitochondria. Well, that picture was drawn by Walt Disney. There's actually, on the average cell, 500 mitochondria. Average liver cell, 2,000 mitochondria. Kidney cell, 4,000. Heart cell, 10,000. Mature egg in a woman's body, 600,000 mitochondria. We can't even comprehend that. And then there are neurons in our brain that have 2 million mitochondria. And so this power plant has been marginalized and pushed off to the side, when in fact it's the brains of the outfit. And what's at the center of every mitochondria is a little blue pool of 50,000 atoms of copper that nobody knows about, especially your practitioner. So if this is so important, and I understand that in Western

medicine, doctors spend very little time understanding nutrition and that side of it. But if copper is this important, why hasn't it been talked about more openly by the medical establishment? Well, the meme that runs medicine is you're anemic and you're copper toxic. That's the lie that fuels a lot of decision making. But the paradigm or the phrase that I use now is ignore the enemies and ignite the energy. Well, the enemies of our metabolism are pathogens, right? Oxins, heavy metals. We know that, right? No, the real disruptor is excess iron. This narrative that, oh, your anemic, wink, is the biggest lie on planet Earth.

It's right up there with the pandemic. And people don't know that. And what's really behind the energy breakdown, John, is one of the most important jobs of the mitochondria is to recycle the iron that's delivering the payload, the oxygen, and that iron needs to be remade into heme or iron sulfur clusters. Guess what? Both of those mechanisms are copper dependent. Most people don't know that. And so the reason why it's not openly discussed is it kills the business model of big pharma. And it can get really dark and really sinister about, let's just

leave it that there's a profit motive and there's a lot of money tied up in sick humans. There's no money in healthy humans, is there? And so it's been the paradigm of big pharma for 100 years. And it really, the way I piece it together is I think it really started off in a significant way after the First World War is when it really started to change. And it's never been the same since. Well, after the First World War, as I think especially the Second World War, the food industry started to change because they were trying to figure out how do you increase shelf life, one for the troops who were deployed overseas, but two for the families who

were left back in the countries and didn't have the same access to be able to prepare food, as I understand it, as they did because of the war around them, especially in Europe. But this is when we started to get into all the preservatives that are in modern food today and things to really change the entire taste profile and add all kinds of artificial things to them. Is that a correct way to think about it? Yeah, it's a key mechanism. What also changed, there was a lot of NPK left over after the war.

NPK was for munitions, and the average person doesn't know that. Well, what does NPK do? It blocks the uptake of copper. And the root system of the plants can't find the copper. And that was right after the first world war. And as you noted, refining of food started to take off. They started adding a lot of sugar to the food. One of the most heavily used chemicals

in the food system today are what are my rosenase inhibitors. Have you ever even heard of them? Most people haven't. And so why would I be concerned about tyrosinase? Well, tyrosinase is critical for the formation of melanin. Well, why is melanin important? Because all the colors from yellow to black

inside your body require melanin. So the whole process of coloring the human body, the organs have color because the organs have frequency and that frequency is color driven. An example is the spleen is supposed to be the color of an eggplant. I had a surgeon tell me, Morley, I've never seen a purple spleen. I'm like, what? And he said, it's a different world out there. So we don't think about color as a sign of metabolic integrity, but it is. And if the color is off, the complex inside the mitochondria, which is where the action is, complex four, is where oxygen gets turned into two molecules of water. So it turns out that the heme that are holding the oxygen, heme A and heme A3, is basically

a stove. And the stove holds the oxygen so that the copper enzyme can slice and dice the oxygen, add four electrons, add four hydrogen protons to turn it into two molecules of water. I think that's amazing. To me, that's the most important chemical transaction on the planet. And that complex is sky blue. Why is it sky blue? Because blue attracts red light and red light is critical for that transformational process

that takes place. And to me, it's, I'm almost reverential around this, how the thought that went into the design of our body is very significant, but it's not taught. No one knows this. And if the colors aren't right, and the colors can't be right, if they're using tyrosinase inhibitors, then there's a downstream effect in how we feel. Does that make sense? No, it makes sense. And it's interesting, I spent some time earlier in my life living in Spain. And it was really interesting, the diet habits there compared to here because most Spaniards that I knew had a very small pantry, if one

at all. And we each had our local grocery store that had fresh fruits, fresh fish. And that's where everyone would go on a daily basis to get their food for that day. I bring this up because I have a European friend who is telling me that every time he comes to the United States, he ends up getting bloated and putting on weight. And then a few weeks later, once he goes home, it all ends up coming back. And I began thinking at first that he was just indulging himself when he was here. But I came to the realization that what it really is inflammation.

Absolutely. And so I've got clients who are full-blown celiac here in the States. They can go to Europe and eat that wheat, but they can't eat the wheat back here. So what's different about our wheat? Well, it's been sprayed with glyphosate four times. It's a desiccant. It dries out the wheat so they can accelerate the process. And it's been sprinkled with iron filings. And there's nothing good that's going to come from just those two things, plus all of the other fortifications. And it's been sprinkled with iron filings. And there's nothing good that's gonna come from just those two things plus all of the other fortifications.

Yeah, you're right. The inflammation is the obvious dynamic, but what is inflammation? If a biochemist were part of this conversation, we asked him, how would you spell inflammation? They would spell it H2O2. Well, that's hydrogen peroxide. Well, H2O2 is not the same as 2H2O. And so what happens inside the mitochondria, the conversion of oxygen into water, it's a two-step process. The down stroke creates hydrogen peroxide.

There's an up stroke that's gotta turn that hydrogen peroxide into the water. And if you're not copper replete, you can't make that up stroke and you are gonna have inflammation. And so what is inflammation? It's just a defective energy production. It's basically what it is.

Yeah, I was having a discussion with Dr. Casey Means. I'm not sure if you know who Casey is, but she co-founded a company called Levels Health, and she's really looking at metabolic health. But we were having a short discussion on how rampant different cancers are now and how so many people are questioning, you know, what is going on that so many people are getting earlier diagnosis of cancer. And the conversation quickly went to, we do know what the issue is. It's the poisoning of the complete environment, especially in America, from the toxins that

are around us that we're breathing in every day to the foods that we're consuming. All of it is leading to a complete imbalance of the body. We're becoming inflammatory machines that are completely out of whack. And then you add the stress that comes about and it's just a toxic mixture that I think is leading to all kinds of different health outcomes in addition to cancer, such as the rise of type two diabetes, ALS and other things that all seem to be on the rise. Are you finding the same things to be true? Oh, absolutely.

And the part that is almost overwhelming to accept is that at the center of all of that controversy, whether it's ALS or diabetes or cancer or whatever it might be, is a conflict between copper and iron metabolism. People don't only understand that copper's the general and iron is the foot soldier. So generals have more brass on their shoulder, have more stars.

What's the brass made out of? It's 88% copper. And the role that they play in directing traffic and getting people to do things is profound. Well, I was curious about how many generals and how many foot soldiers are there in the US Army. It's 242 generals by law, and it's 440,000 foot soldiers by law. And I was like, okay, it's a little bit more dramatic than what's inside the body, but we've got 100 milligrams of copper, which fits on the head of a one-inch stick pin, John. It's a really tiny amount of copper. And we have, supposedly, 5,000 milligrams of iron, 50 to 1 ratio. But

in fact, it goes one step farther. You really want to understand how much iron you have in your body. Get out your calculator, multiply your age times 365. The number for me, I'm 71 now, it's 26,000 milligrams of iron, and that's a much bigger number than 5,000. And guess what? Iron causes aging, and I've taken the stance that copper causes longevity. It's not complicated. It's very disruptive. It throws people into a tailspin because they've never heard it simplified. And you may be familiar with the motto of the Coast Guard, semper paratus, the model of the Marine Corps semper

fidelis, which got shortened to semper fi, where the model of the root cause protocol is simplified. And we're just trying to get people to understand these concepts so they can apply them to their day to day life. And I want to, in a second, do a deeper dive about this protocol. Before we do, I know another thing that you like to talk about is the importance of magnesium to our overall health. And I was interviewing Dom D'Agostino a couple of years ago, and I asked,

what do you think is the most underutilized mineral that we take? And he thought it was magnesium. Why is magnesium so important to our health? It's critically important for ATP production. So what the body is actually making is magnesium ATP. We make our body weight in ATP every day. And when we're under stress, know anybody under stress, John? As soon as we're under stress, I don't know anyone under stress. I know not at all. Soon as we're under stress, there are a network of enzymes called kinase enzymes.

What's a kinase enzyme do? It cleaves off the phosphate so that we can take advantage of that phosphate. That's a very high energy element. And in that process of cleaving, magnesium goes right into our urine, which then goes into the toilet. And so I talk about the magnesium burn rate. And one of my all-time heroes was a physician named Mildred Selig. She was really started out as a drug researcher. And then when she realized all the drugs she was researching caused magnesium deficiency,

she flipped sides, thank God. And she really emphasized the importance of stress causing the magnesium burn rate. And it took me a number of years though to figure out what she was really saying. And the stress that people talk about, when I say the word stress, you think of some deadline you have or some argument you were in or just you've got so much going on you don't know how to balance it all. As soon as you're in a situation like that, what's happening inside your body is you're turning that oxygen into oxidants, accidents with oxygen. And it turns out the greatest stress on planet Earth is iron stress interacting with the

oxygen inside our body. And it's probably about seven years into this process when I was reading an article by an Italian researcher on iron metabolism. And he made this point that iron is the greatest stressor on planet Earth. And I went, oh, now I finally understood it. Copper regulates the iron to prevent the oxidative stress, to prevent the unchecked magnesium loss.

And iron is the master pro-oxidant on planet Earth. It's the number one element on planet Earth. 36% of the Earth's composition has iron in it. That's a big deal. And oxygen is the second most reactive element after fluorine gas. So it's highly volatile. And what does oxygen like to play with? Iron likes to create rust.

So we know our rusty nail, rusty pipe, rusty car. Well, the rusting process is happening inside as well. It's called plaque. And people don't know that, but the process starts by making sure that you have bioavailable copper and we'll get into what that means and why that's a really important concept because it's bioavailable copper is the only element that can regulate iron and oxygen at the same time and not create stress. And so it has this supremacy on the planet and it's a very misunderstood component of

our environment. And Morley, I hate to backtrack, but I think it might be important. Can you just go into a little bit about how mitochondria produce energy and the role minerals play in this process and why when they're out of balance, this whole system gets disrupted? So there's two major components. There's anaerobic glycolysis, which you probably have heard of. There's 10 enzymes in that process, and 8 of the 10 require magnesium. They're important to know.

That mineral is especially important in not just hooking onto ATP but actually generating ATP. But it's not involved in high yield ATP production. That's more in the electron transport chain with copper. And what people don't realize is that there's five complexes in the mitochondria. And most articles will tell you that only complex four, they only tell you one complex that has copper. Well, it turns out that one, three, four and five are copper dependent. And then you've got this pool of copper in the matrix in the center. And there's a whole series of mechanisms that are highly dependent on

copper. And again, that's not taught. The depth of information that's out there about the roles that copper plays, it's in individual articles all over the planet, but it's been a very slow process to try to bring it back together. And so you can't make energy without magnesium and copper. Isn't it fascinating that the two elements that make energy are nowhere on any kind of listing of nutrients in the food we eat. You'll never see magnesium or copper. You'll never see retinol mentioned in a food label. The focus is on calcium, iron, and vitamin D. They'll talk about B vitamins, but most

people don't know that the B vitamins they're eating are synthetic, made by coal tar derivatives. We can have an entire discussion about that alone. And so people don't know the manipulation that's taking place in the food system that you alluded to, in the farming system that we started out with, and then the third leg of the triangle, of course, is the pharmaceutical system. The crosshairs, as far as I'm concerned, are on magnesium and copper. Again, when you begin to create cellular energy deficiency, you're going to wake up the pathogens. And that's the genius of Jerry Tennant's work.

He was the one who explained it best, where you've got this bell-shaped curve. The peak of the bell-shaped curve is pH of 7. And he's absolutely right. In order to convert oxygen into two molecules of water, the pH of the mitochondria has to be 7.0. Very important. But if you're at the top of that bell-shaped curve and you start to come down, the pH is going to be either lower than 7 or higher than 7.

It doesn't matter. But you can see that the energy production is different than when it was up here. So when the energy production drops, that's when the pathogens wake up. And what are they feeding on? Iron. They can't live without iron. And why is the excess iron there? Because there isn't bioavailable copper to keep the pH and the energy production at optimal capacity. Does that help? Yep, that gives more to work with.

And so you have laid out a system that you call is the root cause protocol that I wanted to explore some and it's got a phase zero and then a phase one, a phase two and a phase three. Can you just give us a high level overview of the root cause protocol? And then I want to dive into some different elements of each phase. Well, the root cause protocol was actually inspired by an article that Ray Peat wrote many years ago about iron dysregulation. And I was in my iron phase at that point.

I was fascinated by what he was saying and knew that ceruloplasm, which is a copper protein that pretty much runs and regulates the body, again, not taught, that doesn't mean it's not important. And I knew how important ceruloplasm was. And in the closing paragraphs of his article, he said, and I quote, to my knowledge, no one has ever developed a recipe

to increase the production of Ciruloplasma. And when I read that, John, I was like, that's it. That's where I'm going to go. And I started to identify in those initial stages, there were two things that I wanted to avoid at all costs. And there were two things that I wanted to make sure we had in our diet. And it was actually my oldest son who've inspired the stops and starts. He said, dad, what you need is a don't do this and do this.

And so that then became the stops and starts. And so we now have about a dozen stops and about a dozen starts. Starts have been phased as you identified. And what's important for people to understand is that the stops are vitally important to make sure that you honor those. You do not want to be putting calcium supplements in your body or iron supplements or synthetic B vitamins or, again, this is going to rock a lot of boats, you don't need supplemental D.

You really want to get more D in your body? Use cod liver oil. Go outside and convert your cholesterol into vitamin D, but do not take it from a bottle. And so we've been very strident about this over the years about identifying these stops. And it's a great success. People have found tremendous benefit by starting there. And then of course, what we do is we build on that with the starts. So I think it's important for people to know

that there are two aspects of this and that's what's laid out in the book. The front half of the book is what's the problem and the back half of the book is what's the solution, which is the stops and the starts. Okay, so I want to go through some of these stops in a bit more detail. So one of the things that is right off the bat, a recommendation from you is to stop taking iron fortified foods and anything with added iron. So if you're a listener to this program, how do you understand what

foods are iron fortified or have added iron because I'm guessing a lot of the manufactured food that we have in the grocery store has both of these things in it. Absolutely. As soon as you're shopping in the center of the supermarket, you've got fortified food. So it will actually say fortified or enriched. The only people getting rich from the food are the manufacturers. And they're adding synthetic nutrients, especially iron. There's nine different forms of iron being added to the food system in the United States. All nine are known to cause cancer. And so people need to know that. Again, that's not my opinion. I learned that reading the book, Iron, the most toxic element by

Jim Moon, who was at the time a world-renowned iron toxicologist. So it's just people, it's on the label, and if it's a refined product, there's a very good and safe bet that it's going to have iron. Cereals is where a lot of the iron is hiding. You can go on YouTube and see videos of people using a magnet to move their cereal and their milk. And it's really? And so they started adding iron filings to the flour, the wheat flour, in 1941, again, during the beginning of the Second World War. I didn't know that. I had no knowledge of that. Again, it was Jim Moon who exposed that dirty little secret.

And it was in the US, the UK and Canada where they made that change. And now all the countries that we support, the third world countries, are being exposed to that as well. So if the siren is in the wheat supply, that means it's in our bread supply, and that means it's in the US produced pasta supply as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you were at Trader Joe's, let's just say, and they have a pasta that says it's coming from Italy on the label. Can you trust that it is going to be different than the US supplied pasta?

Well, it's interesting. I'm visiting with an Italian electrical engineer here in Florida, South Florida. He was born and raised in northern Italy. I would have answered your question differently two days ago. Now I'd be really careful. He's got one manufacturer that he relies on now. And you're gonna ask me who it is, and I don't have a recall of it. But the point is, you have to be meticulous about finding a pristine manufacturer, organically grown, that they're not fortifying or enriching.

And quite frankly, it gets exhausting. You have to go through all that, that they're not fortifying or enriching. And quite frankly, it gets exhausting to have to go through all that, that lab of making sure that the food is safe. But that's the world that we live in now, unfortunately. And I want to move on to D3 supplements. I mean, you talked about it a few minutes ago, but one of the most common deficiencies that people have is vitamin D. And so one of the most common supplements that our doctor puts us on is D3, and you're recommending against taking it.

Why is that the case? Because I like to tell the truth. I made a commitment to the truth a long time ago. But again, the phrase vitamin D deficiency is so embedded in our psyche now, we just assume everyone's deficient. We have to step back from that narrative and say, what's really going on? Up until the 80s, vitamin D stores D. And so again,'ve got to make a distinction between 25 hydroxy vitamin D, that's storage D, and 125 dihydroxy vitamin D, that's active D. They're completely different. All the testing

is done on the storage molecule, no testing is done on the active molecule, which should make the listeners wonder, well, gee, why is that? Well, they're both hormones, and every physician knows that hormones have a storage form and an active form, and they always measure both. T4 versus T3, right? We know you've got to measure both in order to get the right ratio, but for vitamin D, you know, we're just going to focus on the storage and we're going to ignore the active. Why are they ignoring the active? Because it's a constant in our body. It doesn't change. What changes? The storage form according to the sunlight. And it was Ray P. Excuse me,

it was Weston A. Price who figured this out back in the 30s. He noted that there was this fluctuation of vitamin D with the storage D with the sunlight. Storage D is higher during the summer, lower during the winter. Why is that? Because it turns out that molecule is a light filter. Vitamin A is a light sensor. There's a difference between a sensor, hey, there's sunlight. What are we going to do with those photons?

That's what a light sensor says. What's a light filter? Light filter is sunglasses. How are we going to block that light? And people don't realize that there's only so much light that needs to get in. And the storage tea is putting dampers on the amount of light coming in the summer. And it's backing away, allowing the lower amount of light

in the winter into the system. And it's just a very different way of understanding the truth of light physics on this planet. And the other part that people don't realize is that the vast majority of research studies on vitamin D, they're always based on storage D, not on active D. And the conclusions are based on correlation,

not causation. Do flies cause garbage? No. Do firemen cause fires? No. But they both show up in those events, right? Flies always seem to be around the garbage and firemen always seem to be around the fire. So what's happened is in a state of inflammation, guess what drops? Magnesium goes down. Mildred Sealing published that back in the 60s. How important or what the correlation was between magnesium loss and inflammation. And why is that happening?

Again, back to the copper, the iron causing the magnesium loss. And there's a wonderful book by Meg Mangan, not a book, excuse me, an article from 2014 about the relationship between vitamin D and inflammation. But she makes a very important point. Low levels of vitamin D are a billboard that you have inflammation. They are not cause, the low D is not causal for creating the inflammation. It's just they're correlated, show up at the same time. And that is not understood in mainstream medicine. And what we put primary emphasis on in the RCT is to get right kind of cod liver oil.

There's probably 100 different forms. We promote two, but you've got to get the right kind of cod liver oil that has the right balance of vitamin A to vitamin D. It's usually 10 to 1. That means that, gosh, maybe retinol is 10 times more important than vitamin D. And what people don't know is that when you have a highly focused intake of vitamin D, it blocks the uptake of vitamin A. Why are we so worried about vitamin A? Because vitamin A activates two critical pumps in our body that load copper into copper enzymes and those copper enzymes are pretty much what run the body. But people don't know that. So it's

out of sight, out of mind. I don't know about the copper pumps. I don't know about retinol. And all I know is that my doctor says my D is low and I need to take more. And it's now, we're big boys and girls. We need to learn the truth of how the body works. And there's many more moving parts, not an overwhelming number, but there's more than this very pedestrian, oh, your vitamin D is low and you need more. It's not that straightforward. Okay, so what I

heard you say is that there's an inverse relationship between inflammation and your D3 levels. So, if your D3 is very low, it could be showing you that you've got chronic inflammation that you need to deal with. And it's an alarm signal for you to realize that and then to do something about the inflammation that's going on. Absolutely true. And the thing is, you can drink a bucket of vitamin D and you will not stop the inflammation. You've got to correct the copper iron dysregulation to stop the magnesium loss.

And it turns out that enzyme, it's called the 25 hydroxylase enzyme, it's in the liver. That enzyme is in fact what makes storage D. And if that's low, then we've got to make sure that we need more magnesium to begin to offset that. Okay, and then that makes sense. And something that I have been taking for years that I'm now questioning completely, is zinc supplements, and I take a liquid form of it, I take one that has years that I'm now questioning completely is zinc supplements.

And I take a liquid form of it. I take one that has copper in it. But your protocol suggests not to take zinc supplements and not to do any one a day multivitamins either. Why is that the case? Again, we're putting primary emphasis on making Cervullo Plasmon. And there's zinc in the diet. There's plenty of zinc in the meats, in the nuts.

There's plentiful sources of zinc. Again, we live in a world of duality, where people have been trained, like circus bears, to believe that we can't live without calcium, can't live without zinc, can't live without iron. And in fact, they're really, they're toxins. They're very disruptive to copper metabolism. And so I moved copper from this marginal player to the center stage. And it's based on years of research about how did early life form on this planet? There wasn't always oxygen. And what happened when oxygen came onto this planet? It was a really dramatic event. And what saved us? It turns out it was copper. And it takes copper to have higher life forms on this planet. The devices that you and I take for granted, the machines we're using to talk to each other right now,

the devices we use to talk to each other with, that takes a higher order thinking. That takes more energy, John. And in order to make more energy, we've got to have more bioavailable copper. What people don't know about is the research that's been done that zinc, supplemental zinc, can be very disruptive to the production of ATP.

Supplemental zinc is very disruptive to the critical enzyme function called ferro-oxidase. Most people have never heard of it, but that's what regulates the state of iron to allow for the recycling of iron to maintain our iron status in our body. It's one of the most important enzyme activities in the body. It's totally dependent on copper, and it allows us to have a happy and successful life on this planet. But again, all that's hiding behind the curtain. Nobody knows about all that. They just know I'm supposed to do this, I'm supposed to do that. And what we've done

with the root cause protocols, we pull back the curtain to expose what's really going on. If you've ever seen the movie, The Wizard of Oz, which is one of my favorite movies, there's a critical scene where the wizard is hiding behind the green curtain. And then what happens? Toto pulls back the green curtain to expose him. Well, guess what? I'm Toto. That's my job.

And I'm exposing the manipulation of the food industry and the pharmaceutical industry that's been going on for a century to say, wait a minute, we got to stop that. Let's get back to the original factory settings and allow the body to do what it does best, which is make energy and keep us in balance. It's just a very different approach than you find typically on the internet. And then the last thing in the phase zero protocol I wanted to talk about was fluoride, because I've been hearing more and more information about why we need to stop using fluoride toothpaste, but then every single dentist you talk to says, no, don't do that.

That's exactly what you need to be doing. Why do you recommend stop using fluoride? And I understand not wanting it in your water, but in the toothpaste as well. It just, do you know about deaf Smith County, Texas? Have you ever heard of it? No, I have not. Okay, all right.

So we're gonna go back in the time machine to 1954. And there was a region in the time machine to 1954. And there is a region in the country called Deathsmith County. I think it's outside of Dallas. And it turns out there's a very low incidence of dental caries in Deathsmith County, Texas. So it's pretty cool. So what really started all this was an article that was published in 1954 in the American Dental Association, where they talked about part of the country and they tested the water

that's in and around that region. And there's fluoride in the water, don't you know? And so, they published an article saying that we need fluoride because it's going to cut the dental caries. And it was based on a study of munitions workers during the Second World War, very celebrated study. And in the study, they indicated that the munitions workers who were working with fluoride to make these munitions, it's part of the aluminum process involves the production

of fluoride, and these munition workers had no carries. It's amazing. So 50 years go by, and someone invokes the Freedom of Information Act to find the notes that supported that 1954 study. And they wanted to really get to the truth of it. And it turns out that in Death Smith County, Texas, there's just fluoride in the water. There's a lot of calcium in the soil. Well, that's a good thing to know. Calcium is really good for building up the teeth. And so then they got the research notes and they found out that there had been a slight use of poetic license in writing the article because it turns out that the munitions workers had no teeth. That's why they had no caries. And so, wait, no, they wouldn't lie to me, would they?

And it's been pummeled into dentists for decades. And one of my good friends, we both went to dentists in university. Charlie, he went over to Yale Law School. I wasn't quite that talented. But he's been pushing amalgam-free dentistry for about 30 years now. And I think he's right on the cusp of pulling it off. And the thing is, there's so much confusion in the world of dentistry. And I was just in Las Vegas a couple of weekends ago, meeting with a group of biological dentists called the IAOMT. They were the first ones on the block

to really go after these additives to supposedly enhance dental health. And they've been battling this issue for decades now. And so there's just a lot of myth understanding. There's a lot of mythology and why fluorine is so important or fluoride is important. And what's really important to know is that fluoride chelates copper. But let's cut to the chase. Fluoride is very hard on magnesium. Let's cut to the chase. I believe it was 13 Nobel laureates have opposed the use of fluoride in any aspect of dentistry or any aspect of pharmaceuticals. Guess what, John? There are a lot of drugs now that have the letter F in them.

Did you know that? And the letter F stands for fluoride activated. People don't know that. They don't know that Cipro, that's an antibiotic, Ciprofloxan is its formal name. That F means this fluoride activated. The people who get Cipro have severe problems with connective tissue dysfunction following the intake of that antibiotic. The issues run very deep and very dark, very fast. And if you don't know about deaf Smith and County

Texas, if you don't know about the 1954 study, if you don't know about munitions workers during the Second World War, well then, maybe my dentist knows what he's talking about. And what really intensified my position on this, There's a dentist outside of Chicago, Illinois, Dean Smith is his name, and he was going to do a fluoride rinse for a patient many years ago. And she closed her mouth. And she said, Have you personally researched that this is safe? He said, I don't need to do that. He said, I was taught that this is the accepted procedure and I'm going to do it now. And she said, no, you're not. You're not gonna touch my teeth

until you personally research this. And he initially was taken aback, of course, but he took it as a challenge. So he decided to really dig into this. And what he found very quickly in the research was that fluoride was both the second coming and it's a poison. And he realized it can't be both. And so he has 25 linear feet of research, and I can well relate to that. I probably have that much or more.

And then he published a book called Fluoride the devil's poison. And it's, I've read many books doing this work. It's the one book, John, that I can't finish because it gets so dark. And it's like so disturbing. The distortions, the twisting of the truth is so overwhelming. I had to stop reading it. And that may be more than you were bargaining for, that your listeners were bargaining for, but there's so much narrative that runs what people think is healthy. It's not natural. And what we're really trying to do within the root cause protocol is get back to that original basis of what was mother nature seeking to do? What was our maker really? Why are we designed the way we're designed? And when you really begin

to understand it, there is this point where you do get reverential. You're like, this is amazing, the level of communication, but the level of dependence on the right balance of minerals is especially important. Okay, I appreciate that lengthy discussion because I think it amplifies for a listener if they've been hearing this their entire life that you should be using fluoride. Why some of the influencers and yourself who are out there in the health space are now telling people not to use it. So I personally am going to do a lot more research on this and buy that book. And I want to spend

a little bit of getting through it. Yeah. And now, and I really do. I love the name of your company, passion struck because I think the listeners know I'm very passionate about this. This is a very important phase of my life and I appreciate the chance to have this kind of dialogue. So forgive me for interrupting just now. Oh no, I wanted to go into some of the things that you recommend we start taking. So I take magnesium every day. A lot of people take it. I've always been told to take it at night because it helps with your sleep regimen.

But I think there's a lot of discussion on what form of magnesium is the best to take. Do you have some insights on that? There's four broad categories of magnesium. The best absorbed magnesium on the planet is what's found in water. So it turns out that the richest source of magnesium is in the waters in Poland, of all places. And if you want to get magnesium rich water, go to a Polish market, they're going to have a half a dozen different brands, which is going to have a nice pH, it's going to have other minerals. But that's really where that form of magnesium is immediately

taken up. And you can create your own, you can use bicarbonate, you can use club soda and get the same effect using milk and magnesium, but that's another important source. So water is very important. Then we've got leafy greens. Anything that's green has chlorophyll and you're going to get magnesium in the course of that diet. Then you've got a third category is transdermal and you've got Epsom salts, magnesium sulfate, or you

have magnesium chloride oil. It's not really oil, it's still the dehydrated seawater is really what it is. And that transdermal uptake is very effective. A lot of different manufacturers are using a pump. And if you get 10 pumps of magnesium cream or magnesium oil, you're going to get about 200 milligrams of magnesium. And then we get to what I think your question was directed at is there are about 25 different forms of chelated magnesium. And chelation or chelated is just the Greek word claw, it's holding the magnesium

and it gets released upon absorption. What I found to be the two best absorbed based on studies are magnesium glycinate and magnesium malate. They're very well received by the stomach, but depending upon where you live, magnesium gluconate is very popular in the UK. Magnesium orotate, very popular in Germany. And it's just, I'm not sure why these different parts of the world have different areas of focus, probably because of the practitioners pushing it. But a lot of people also know about threonate and they claim that, oh, it's the only one that crosses the blood-brain barrier.

Well, all magnesium has crossed the blood-brain barrier. I think that the 3N8 has a really good PR team, but I'm not sure that scientifically it's that much different than the glycinate or the malate. But the important thing is to find one that you feel comfortable with. What you want to avoid is magnesium oxide. It's a very popular form for physicians to prescribe. It's called MagOx 400. It has 400 milligrams of magnesium. But what people don't know is that you only absorb 4% of magnesium oxide. And so you're getting 16 milligrams of magnesium in that dose of magnesium oxide. And the other one that I'm very hard on is magnesium citrate.

It's very popular. People swear by it. Oh, it removed my constipation. but what they don't know is that the citrate molecule is an endogenous inhibitor of the ceruloplasmin protein, which is this critical copper protein that nobody knows anything about. So there's wonderful sources of viable bioavailable magnesium without having to go after those that I'm speaking against. But what I found is that people seem to be, they're more stimulated by glycinate during the day and they seem to calm down with malate at night. And I've got clients that will do it at the beginning of the day and there's slow release

formulas out there that you can use, where there's some people that like to divide it up during the day. The key is, and this is again based on the research of Mildred Sealing, she found that when people were taking five milligrams per pound or 10 milligrams per kilo, that's when they had the best response to their stress. Again, there's a constant magnesium burn rate in our body. We're constantly turning over ATP because we're constantly dealing with stress in our lives. And so we've always got to be thinking about

how am I restoring that magnesium to keep me chill in a very turbulent time of the world. And Morley, I was hoping you could do the same discussion on bioavailable copper, given copper has been such a big focus of our conversation today. What's important for the listener to understand is that in the 1930s, and this is documented in the literature, but in the 1930s,

it was very common to get between four and six milligrams of copper in a daily diet. That's a lot of copper. By the 1960s, that number had dropped to two to five milligrams of copper. And by the current data, RDA for today is nine-tenths of one milligram. But most people don't even get that. I think it's 60% of people don't even get nine-tenths of one milligram of copper. And so we just have to be mindful that there's been this generational decline in the availability of copper, in large part going back to what we were talking about from the very beginning of the conversation. Changes in the farming system, changes in the food system, changes in the pharmaceutical

system have altered our access to this mineral. And NIH has what's called an upper tolerable limit for copper at 12 milligrams. And yet we're supposed to believe the narrative, I'm anemic and I'm copper toxic. When in fact, the truth is just the opposite. Most people are so laden with excess iron, it's hiding in your tissues, it's not showing up in your blood work. Don't confuse low iron in the blood or high iron in the tissue. They're very different media. Got to know the distinction. Not my idea.

It's the work of some very preeminent scientists who figured this out in 2004. And the issue is, iron is high because the copper is low in our diet. And copper is the general that regulates the bioavailability and the functional state of iron in our body. So the key is, the challenge now is to where can we find this in our diet? We've been very bullish for many years about using organ meats, nuts and seeds, things of that nature that have historically been very high in copper. And what people have got to be careful about is that the nutrient tables that we're so dependent upon haven't been updated for decades. Most people don't

know that. That all stopped in the late 50s when farming started to really change. And so maybe we're not getting the level of copper that we thought we were getting. Then we've got the added layer of glyphosate and what it's done to change the availability of minerals in general, but copper in particular. And let me just amplify why this is so important. There's a world-renowned army expert, soil chemistry expert, his name is Don Huber. He's now retired from Purdue University. And he's done a lot of research on the impact of glyphosate. He published a book with Dr. Wilson in December of 22, talking about the impact of these farming chemicals on nutrient availability in the food. And in pages 81 through 84, you probably want to have your feet in a magnesium foot bath

when you read those pages, he talks about the impact, the chelating impact of glyphosate on different minerals. So they put the scale in a logarithmic scale. We know there's a difference between an earthquake of three and an earthquake of nine. Earthquake of three is, that's nothing. A nine, it's a million times bigger. The intensity is up by factors of 10. Glyphosate chelates magnesium and calcium at a three. Not too bad.

It chelates iron and zinc at a nine. Oh, wow, that's coming up faster. It chelates copper at a 12. What does that mean? That means that copper is being chelated a billion times faster than calcium or magnesium. Copper's coming out a thousand times faster than iron or zinc. Now the difficulty we have, John, is understanding what is a thousand times faster. We certainly can't relate to a billion times faster. So there was a time when I could

run an eight minute mile. And about that time, my younger son who was in college, he ran a 402, which is pretty impressive. I called him up, said, you're going to go for it? He said, no. He said, I could work like a banshee for months, but maybe not shave those two seconds off. But he could run twice as fast as I could. So what did I do? I went to the gym to see what it felt like to run a four minute mile. Almost killed myself when I realized the machine was doing all the work.

I'm holding on for dear life. But that was twice as fast. You and I can't really relate to a thousand times faster, a billion times faster. And why am I putting so much emphasis on this? Well, Europe has opposed glyphosate since the beginning. Going back to, I think it really started in 1987 as when glyphosate really hit the commercial market. Europe especially has been vehemently opposed and no one in Europe more than the French. Well, I was reading a 2017 study recently about rice farmers in India suffering from chronic kidney disease

because they used glyphosate in their farming practice and that's what was causing their kidney disease. But in the introduction of the article they said it would be good for the reader to know that a recent study of French citizens reveals that 99% of French citizens are peeing glyphosate in their urine. So a part of the world that's been vehemently opposed to this chemical is now metabolizing it in their urine, which means it's everywhere.

It's in the air, it's in the water table. And so when I began to piece all this together, that's what really motivated me to create a copper supplement called Recuperate. And I did it out of a desire to help humanity. We're the crosshairs folks. If we don't have access to this mineral, we don't function. And so that has capsules of... It's got desiccated beef liver, it's got spirulina, it's got some turmeric, and it's got two milligrams of copper biscolysinate, which is a very bioavailable form. And you can quibble about, oh, it doesn't sound like it's pristine or it's natural. So folks, we've got to get this mineral back into our body so that the hundreds of cuproenzymes

can do their job to keep us in balance. So the thing is the average person doesn't know about op-ins or on copper. And maybe I've read too much, maybe I've connected too many dots, but I think it's important for people to realize that it is easily replaced, it's supplemented, it can be done. And don't be certain that because historically, our ancestors got copper from their diet,

don't assume that you're going to get it from your diet because your ancestors did not grow up with Roundup. Roundup now pretty much covers the globe in terms of its agricultural impact. And we need to know that and we need to act on that. So hopefully that gives your listeners a little bit more to work with. Thank you, Morley. And the last thing I wanted to touch on is diatomaceous earth. And this is something that a friend of mine encouraged me to take probably a decade ago when I took it for about six years and I've stopped over

the past four years because some doctors were telling me concerns about it. But I remember when I first started taking it and I remember only taking about a teaspoon with a glass of water over a course of about a week as I was starting to build it up, it had some pretty profound impacts. I remember it completely cleared out my digestive tract and I ended up losing a considerable amount of weight. For people who aren't familiar with this, can you explain what it is and why it is useful? Diatomaceous earth is based on diatoms.

These are ancient life forms, and look like little buzz saws and people are always afraid that those little buzz saws are going to somehow chew up their intestines. It doesn't work that way. What the dietamaceous earth does is it's a dehydrating agent, basically what it is. And I'm comforted to know that you started very slow. I've had people just dive into DE and take way too much and you can have a very different reaction as you probably know.

But when you go slow, start low and go slow, It can be very effective as you experienced. But what it does is it dehydrates the environment and that's what kills the pathogens that are so disruptive to our metabolism. And people don't realize that, oh, well, those pathogens are living on the iron that's in my gut. Well, how did that iron get into my gut? Well, again, it's in the food system. And people know that we need to absorb iron, but it's a two-step process. The iron, so think of my hand being, this is an enterocyte, and this is the villi, my fingers are the villi, and down here is the bloodstream. Okay? So the food comes in and it gets processed in the villi, and then the iron gets into

the cell of the enterocyte. But that's only the first step of absorbing the iron. Then the next step is to get it out of the cell through this membrane, it's called the basolateral membrane, and get it into the bloodstream. Well, there's a little iron doorway down here to let the iron out of the enterocyte and get it into the bloodstream. And that iron doorway is run by a copper doorman. So copper needs to be present in the enterocyte.

There's copper in the mucal lining of the villi. Most people don't know that. The mucous is incredibly dependent on copper. But the two-step process, and what happens is, iron starts to build up in the enterocyte. And that's when pathogens start to get attracted to that iron. And then what the DE does is it's wiping out that prevalence of pathogens. And then the root cause protocol is bringing in the copper that's needed to open up the

doorway to release the iron, get it into the bloodstream, and then begin to support the iron recycling program. That makes sense? Makes sense completely. Well, I appreciate all your insights today, Morley, and you didn't disappoint, you gave a very overarching discussion on the background and then some of the protective measures we need to start implementing and things we need to stop doing. If a listener was

wanting to understand more about your protocol in your book, where's the best place for them to go? Go to your favorite online bookseller for the book, The Curious Fatigue. You can go to, for social media, we have a Facebook page, the Magnesium Advocacy Group. There's a Facebook group. That's the RCP, Root Cause Protocol group. For people who want to learn more about this, go to the website RCP for Root Cause protocol, RCP123.org. There's a lot of information on the website that's available for free, all sorts of articles, videos, things like that. You can sign up for our online community, the RCP community.

We're just now opening up enrollment for our next group of classes. We have an RCP Institute. Would encourage people to sign up for that if they want to do a much deeper dive. It's a 16-week program. People are transformed by that program. Practitioners are absolutely so enthralled by what they learn and it changes their understanding, but it changes their practice completely. And then for people who want a more intimate interaction, I always tell people my email address is my first and last name, MorleyRobbins at gmail.com.

And then finally, for those precious few that need to talk to me, my phone number is Errico at 847-922228061. And John, the most entertaining part of my day are the people who call me. And I answer and they go hypoxic. They go, oh my God, I didn't think you were going to answer. That's it. I always do. So I know there are people that need to have that kind of immediate feedback and I'm happy to share my knowledge with them. need to have that kind of immediate feedback. And I'm happy to share my knowledge with them. Well, Morley, thank you so much for joining us today. It was such an honor to have you.

Delighted to be here. And maybe we can dig a little deeper, go after some other subjects whenever you're interested. And I'm always happy to share this type of insights with your listeners and maybe even respond to the questions that I'm sure this conversation has stirred up within your community. Thank you so much again.

Okay. What an incredible interview that was with Morley Robbins. And I wanted to thank Morley for joining us on today's program. Links to all things Morley will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. Videos are on YouTube at both our main channel at John R. Miles and our clips channel at Passion Struck Clips. Please go check it out and join over 250,000 other subscribers.

Advertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. If you want daily doses of inspiration from passion struck, then follow me at John R. Miles. If you want to join our passion struck challenge, then you can do so by signing up for our weekly newsletter, live intentionally. And lastly, if you want to find out where you stand on the continuum to becoming passion struck, then go to passionstruck.com and take the passion struck quiz consist of 20 questions and we'll take about 10 minutes of your time. You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Strike podcast

interview that I did with Sarah Rogers, the creative force behind the women's wear line babes in this episode, Sarah shares her insights from her new book, The Outsider Advantage, because you don't need to fit in to win. Discover how Sarah turned setbacks into stepping stones and why being different can become your greatest asset. A lot of times we're passionate about things that we're not good at. We're good at things that we're not passionate about. There's a lot of people working in jobs

that they have no passion for. And there's a lot of people that have passion for something that they're not good at all and they can never make money. With me, I got really lucky that I just have a knack for women's bodies. I have a knack for fashion and making things look good. I got lucky in that sense.

So a list would help basically like if you wrote down things you were good at, wrote down things you're passionate about and see where they meet. I think that's best because we don't ever want to go into a business where we're just passionate about it but we're not good at it at all. The fee for the show is that you share it with family or friends when you find something useful or interesting. So if you know someone who could use more information about Morley Robbins' pioneering work, then definitely share this episode with them. The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share this show with those that you love. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you you