Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Tricia Manning on How to Lead With Heart and Leave a Legacy EP 143

Starting point is 00:00:00 coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. What is going to help them be sustaining in this ever changing world, where this is the norm now, jobs are going to go away and new jobs are going to spin up with a blink of an eye. What's going to help them sustain are the sosco, are the AI skills and capabilities. Their ability to lead with empathy, their ability to maneuver relationships, their ability to inspire excellence among their organizations and their peers and the people they lead.

Starting point is 00:00:35 The ability that they have to connect on a level that brings out the best in someone so that they stay, so that they're engaged, so that they contribute the best of yourself. That's what's gonna sustain. Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance

Starting point is 00:00:55 of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews,

Starting point is 00:01:16 the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 143 of PassionStruck, one of the top ranked health and fitness podcasts in the world. Thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn how to live better, be better, and impact the world. In case you missed my interviews from last week, we had two incredible ones, including featuring Admiral James Stavridis and the launch of his new book

Starting point is 00:01:56 to risk it all. We also covered his other books, 2034 and Sailing True North, and so much more in that great episode. We also had on former Strike Fighter pilot Egan Gill who survived the fastest ejection in naval history and we talk about that heroine experience, his long recovery and what his life is like now. And in case you've missed my solo episodes over the past couple of weeks, I've been focusing on how our brain, our beliefs, and our mind influence our reality. Please go and check those all out. I also wanted to thank the audience for your continued positive support. We just crossed 5,805 star reviews in the United States alone,

Starting point is 00:02:39 and globally we have over 8,000 of them now on iTunes. And none of that would be possible without your support. Those ratings and you forwarding these episodes to your friends and family member are helping us so much to grow this global passion-struck movement and helping people everywhere learn how to be more intentional about their lives. Now, let's talk about today's guest. Trisha Manning is an author, certified coach,

Starting point is 00:03:05 and former global business leader, having reached the sea suite as only one of two female executives at the roundtable. After facing an unexpected health crisis in 2016, Trisha made the difficult decision to end her 25-year corporate career, but wasn't ready to stop helping others. With a passion to grow strong leaders and fight for gender diversity in the boardroom, she

Starting point is 00:03:31 began her own coaching practice and wrote the book, Lead With Heart, and Leave a Lasting Legacy. In her interview, we discussed how she embarked on her 25-year career, moving up the ranks and eventually becoming a sea level within the same company. What inspired her to stay for that long within that company and the aspects of being part of a high growth startup company that she loves so much, would it was like to help the company go through tremendous expansion? Why having a heart-led culture is so important to company transformation? The health scare that caused her to look at her

Starting point is 00:04:06 life in completely different ways and how she learned how to redefine success for herself and you can to through positive change. Why the opportunity now is to stop compartmentalizing, to stop leaving parts of you at the office door and practice showing up as your whole self as that is the path to more fulfillment. Lastly, we discuss her book, Lead with Heart and Leave a Legacy, as well as so much more. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. So excited today to have my friend, Trisha Manning, on the Passion Start podcast.

Starting point is 00:04:51 Welcome Trisha to the show. Oh, thank you, John. I'm excited to be here. I love all guests, but I especially love guests who I've known for a while and adore my friend. It's going to be a great time. Yeah, it is. We have so much to talk about and we're going to get to obviously what you're doing today and

Starting point is 00:05:10 that amazing book you have right behind you. But you are one of the few senior executives I know who actually started and kind of ended their career at the same company. So coming out of Florida State, I know you spent a little bit of time at Accord, what drove you to go to Catalina Marketing? And maybe if a listener isn't aware, maybe you can tell him what Catalina does. Yes, okay. Yeah, that's an interesting story actually

Starting point is 00:05:40 about how I ended up with Catalina. So Catalina is digital marketing company. When I started, it was still a startup, right? So the headquarters were in California, and the founders were still involved in at the time. They were building one of the world's biggest database of consumer purchase history. And it was this novel idea, and they were engaged with retailers and manufacturers

Starting point is 00:06:11 and technology element to the data element to it. But really they considered themselves at the onset as a marketing company. They were issuing promotions in the retail space. I was fresh out of college. I had just graduated and I'll date myself a little bit because it was back in the day when you actually applied for jobs through the newspaper. And I had graduated, I had come home

Starting point is 00:06:37 and my mom was looking through the paper and she said, hey, this job sounds really great. What do you think? And I read it in the ad was, would you like to relocate to sunny California for the summer? And I was like, yeah, sign me up. So I applied through the newspaper.

Starting point is 00:06:57 They interviewed me here in Florida and then had me go out then the first six months or so learning the business in California and then I helped the company make the move their headquarters moving to Florida. I started in that position as a data entry clerk literally entering UPC data into their database. From there, I worked my way up. So I was with the company overall 25 years, starting in data entry and when I left,

Starting point is 00:07:34 I was in an executive steel level executive position. I have a lot of people ask, right, why'd you stay so long? Because it is rare these days to see somebody that sends their whole career, their whole corporate career at one company. For me, it clearly was the people. It was the opportunity to really see that growth to work with the founders. I had the opportunity to grow my leadership skills. I viewed myself as a culture carrier over the years because I had that first early experience. That was kind of my trajectory and my experience

Starting point is 00:08:10 with a startup growing with that organization all the way to multi-million dollar firm. Yeah, so I always find it interesting. The stories behind how companies get their names. When I got to meet the founders of Catalina It was interesting to find out that they had been out on a boat and kind of got shipwrecked off off of Catalina Which is where they bird this whole idea. That's how the company got its name interesting lane up Yeah, so it's a really cool story very engaging and it it spoke to the culture, I think, a little bit, right?

Starting point is 00:08:46 While you were there long before I arrived, Catalina went through this just explosive growth stage, probably one of the fastest growing startups in the world for a while. Must have been such an exciting time to be there. If you're a person who's never been in a high-growth company like that, what was it like being inside of it?

Starting point is 00:09:06 A lot of the things we talked about at the time, so definitely Catalina in that high growth era considered themselves very entrepreneurial. That was definitely healing that you had. It was very much work hard play hard. There were great things about the culture that were just fun. You were working really hard. We bore a lot of hats and you know we put in a lot of hours. You didn't feel like you were in the grind that was grinding you down, right? It was fun. And we had things like Caribbean days, right? So we'd have a week of just where the CEO would host different events. And we had some drinking going on during the day. You know, it's weird that you know, lightened the bed a little bit. And it's just fun. The culture was fun.

Starting point is 00:09:55 And the other thing that really struck me. And so as I had a long career there and then I left, I had a lot of time to reflect. One of the things that really struck me about the culture, not just work hard, play hard, but it was a very connected family feeling. And in the very early days, when we had this explosive growth, the founders were asking a lot of their people to really help reach those milestone goals. We would go to a holiday event and our CEO would put up a chart that would show the sales growth trajectory along with the the number of babies that our employee population had had in that given year. It was kind of sad, but his point was like, one, I see you. I know that your, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:55 your family is also supporting the great things about this company, but his funny spin on it was keep having babies because you need to work so that you could support those babies and let's keep the growth of the company going. But it was those kind of those kind of opportunities to weave in the family and the extended, the people that extended beyond the employees that really helped to kind of make up the success of the organization. It really struck me about the company early on. I joined at a time when the company was again trying to reinvent itself. We were in between CEOs when I first got there.

Starting point is 00:11:34 In fact, one of the founders George had stepped in while I was there at first. But the company had again done a masterful job of extending the network and growing it especially throughout Europe and also in the United States to appoint that the network component and in Catalina's case, this would be if the listener is not familiar with it, kind of pharmacy brands, mass retailers like Target, and then 70% of all grocery, the only exception really being Walmart. We really had this scale that we knew pretty much over a two, three year period, the buying habits of about 70% of the shopping trips that consumers were making. So when you think about that, the amount of data and that power of that data was really a

Starting point is 00:12:26 mess. However, at the time, my joined, there was a small company at the time, Kippons.com, who had kind of come out of nowhere and now had this digital disrupting technology. When I got there, it was interesting because we were trying to figure out how do you pivot this company and all its legacy processes. You played a very heavy role in the operation side, which was driving the majority of the company, but how do you take that, how do you streamline it, scale it, and change directions. For you, at that point of time, what was it like having been in the company that long and now seeing this huge pivot point which could actually threaten the existence of the company?

Starting point is 00:13:14 That was a time of true transformation for an organization. What's interesting about that word transformation, there are so many companies now going through transformation, you know, this past year having to transform. And so it is something that many organizations face, but I don't know that as leaders, we really, when you're in it, I don't know that we know the true magnitude of what that means until you are in it, until you go through it. Being in it, and I mentioned myself, or I described myself as culture carrier, I saw myself that way.

Starting point is 00:13:55 I wasn't just in the throes of the bowels of the operations trying to help transform this organization, but I was also very in tune and very worried and also very excited about the opportunity to really engage the people in that transformation. Like, how do we really make this work? Big moments in that process and in that learning for me was when we had maybe had the second swing at the ball, right? Is that process of transformation started early on, but as you know, we were seven years in and still trying to transform, right?

Starting point is 00:14:33 It took a lot of turns at trying to make this happen. I remember just that moment on the member of the executive team, I'm sitting around the table with my peers and we had been consulting comment, and it was the second time we had spent many many millions of dollars to have a consulting firm come in and tell us what we were doing wrong, and I'll never forget because it was the first time we had a consultant sit in a room with this executive team and say, guys, what you're trying to do only 5 to

Starting point is 00:15:07 8% of companies will ever succeed, that's not because of the technology or it's not because of the strategy. It is truly because you aren't finding a way to go deep in the organization to engage the hearts of minds of the people to be able to make the shift. And that was really an awakening for me. And it became about the ability of the leadership to engage all the way down to the front line and get everybody on board to actually make that transformation and that shift. And there were a lot of learnings for me around that. I would tell you that was really hard work.

Starting point is 00:15:54 In my lifetime at Catalina, we weren't successful. When I left the organization, 11 months later, they found bankruptcy. So there's something to really be said about the people being your biggest asset and your biggest enableer for transformation and for change. No, I think it's a great point and I just want to spend a little bit more time on it because whether you're a startup, whether you're a nonprofit, whether you're a for-profit corporation, whether you're a government agency, it ultimately all comes down to the people. And the reason so many people in the workforce right now are disengaged is I think you hit on a huge part of it and we're going to cover this is a major part of this podcast today

Starting point is 00:16:44 is you've got to get people at their heart if you want to inspire change. I saw this at Catalina and I'm gonna get to that, but I saw it prior to Catalina when I was at Dell. I walked in to a very similar situation where Dell had historically been a hardware company and was trying to pivot into a services, but not just services like around the hardware, but doing software implementations, other things, and then becoming a software company. And the biggest struggles that I saw were that we were trying to do this change, but it was being forced upon the organization instead of getting many of these long-term executives and middle managers who had been there a while who only knew the culture that existed, who only knew the company that existed, Because we're trying to change systems and make all this change, we ran into incredible

Starting point is 00:17:47 resistance because people are scared and they get retrenched. While I was there, I think we did 15 or 16 acquisitions. And what I learned about the acquisitions was the same thing about trying to turn the company around. Was that all these people want to say, we're going to have these synergy costs, savings, we're going to have this great technology. And ultimately, it's not about any of those things. Ultimately, it comes down to the cultures.

Starting point is 00:18:16 And if the cultures are in conflict with each other, this acquisition is going to be very difficult to implement. And so when I arrived at Catalina, but at the time we had a CEO that we both know, who had a great, I think, visionary aspect of them from coming from the CPG world, being an innovator of new products. I sat there being in charge of technology. He kept telling me that technology was going to change the whole direction of the company. And I would have huge debates with him and your boss at the time, Debbie Booth was in the room. And we were both trying to impress, it's not at all about the technology. And it's not as much about the process change, it's about so much of this workforce. You had so many smart people, there are so many who had been part of creating literally hundreds of patents, but unless you got them completely bought

Starting point is 00:19:14 in to what we were trying to accomplish and they understood why we were going in that direction, you could spend a hundred million dollars on technology. It wasn't going to change a darn thing. I want to pack that a little bit because now the work that you're doing and then we'll come back to why you got into this work is all around how do you create heart leadership or our heart, culture and companies. Can you kinda talk about was it that Catalina influence

Starting point is 00:19:42 that set you on this path or was there some other influence that got you involved? Mm-hmm. I lived what you're talking about, too, right? And we talked about the importance of the people and the alignment and the ability to change lead. And I am so fortunate for that experience because I didn't learn a lot.

Starting point is 00:20:03 I saw a lot, observed a lot. And it did become very much a passion of mine to follow, to follow that in the sense of, how do we help teams be more effective, teams be more cohesive to remove the dysfunction at the top so that we can come together to harness the biggest asset of the organization, which is the people. And how do you do that? Well, you have to connect. You have to inspire excellence. You have to motivate and understand what the personal motivations are of the organization, understand what the personal motivations are of the organization. The work that I do now in my coaching and consulting business, a large part of my work, is just that it's working

Starting point is 00:20:56 with teams. Teams becoming more cohesive, remove the dysfunction, so that they can then unleash the power of their people. This work around team cohesion and team effectiveness has actually exploded the last couple of years, especially I've seen in my business. And I'm gonna attribute that to the fact that we are more disconnected.

Starting point is 00:21:21 So we're working differently now because of COVID, right? We've got hybrid work, we've got remote work. We have all these things that have put, have made connection and made that engagement of people even harder. CEOs have spent a ton more time, elbows deep in their organizations the last two years, dealing with interpersonal issues that they really just don't have time. They shouldn't be dealing with,

Starting point is 00:21:49 but it's been a result of their teens, their leaders not being so strong as a cohesive unit. And so now you add the flex and the chaos and all the things that have happened the last two years, and there's cracks, right? And so CEOs have had to fill those cracks, and so they've come to appreciate how important, I think, that cohesive leadership teams are,

Starting point is 00:22:18 and then come to appreciate the work to be done, which is then those leadership teams finding ways to go deep and connect with their people so that the organization can move in the right direction. There's a lot of strategies for that, but that's a lot of work that I'm doing as a result of the last few years. We'll be right back to my interview with Trisha Manning. Oprah Winfrey, she's living, breathing proof of the power of passion, running away from home at age 13, starting a media empire, and now worth $2.6 billion. All to say that, when she makes a big move, you can learn a

Starting point is 00:22:57 lot by watching. And after she made $60 million in one fell swoop. I did some research on how and my eyes were open to a market out there worth $1.7 billion. That for the first time, we all can be part of no Oprah level billions needed. How? There's a startup that's blowing the whole thing wide open called Masterworks. Powered by passion, like all good startups are, and eager to change the world. To learn more, go to masterworks.io and use promo code passion. That's masterworks.io promo code passion.

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Starting point is 00:23:59 who support this show and make it free for our listeners everywhere now, back to my interview with Trisha Manning. I earlier in my career, when I was at Lowe's, I walked into a function within the company that out of 350,000 employees had the lowest engagement scores in the company. I walked in, I was like, what am I gonna do about this?

Starting point is 00:24:23 When I thought, well, it can only go up, but going up isn't the metric. It's like, how do we completely change the culture here? And as I started to go around, I remember I'd get up because it was a 24 by seven operation. And we had call centers and everything else. I'd get up at two o'clock in the morning just to be able to get on a shift and spend a few hours

Starting point is 00:24:49 talking to the employees. As I did that and tried to talk to as many people as I could, what was shocking to me is they said, and all the time we've ever been here, you're the first person who's ever asked us our opinion or what we think is broken. And what I found was the biggest disconnect was that none of them truly understood how the jobs that they were doing impacted the company and the outcome of the company.

Starting point is 00:25:19 And when you were able to translate the strategy of lows and to break it down so that they could see that their job being a customer care person talking to a customer was extremely important because we only have so many interactions with a customer you can do it online you can do it in the store or you can do it via chat or on the phone. And if you don't treat that moment with the customer as like the most important aspect of what you're doing, it has a tremendous negative impact on a company. Just by doing that, getting more people involved, giving them more accountability for improving the organization and improving our group, and putting people at all levels of the organization on different tighter teams. We made a massive change in just under two years. So I hear exactly what you're trying to do, but it's not an easy process because what it requires

Starting point is 00:26:22 the leader to do is to be very vulnerable and realize you're coming into something that you have to completely listen and not just go in there trying to judge or make change before you understand why things have transpired over decades into what they have become. Does that make sense and resonate to you? Oh, yeah, for sure. And there are models. So when you get to it, mentioned it in terms of a process.

Starting point is 00:26:52 And it is a process journey, right? And there are models that you can apply to really move executive teams in the direction of cohesion, which ultimately then provide them the skills so that they can do what's necessary for the organization. There's a book, Patrick Linceoni has a model, and a book that's a really great one, the advantage, right? It talks a lot about how you leverage people and you leverage the leadership team to create and manage. It completely resonates their models. When you're talking also about the individual leaders around the table. So, right, team co-cusion is critically important, it can be a differentiator,

Starting point is 00:27:32 it can be an advantage. But what we're also talking about is people. Like, these leaders sitting around the table are people. Whole, beautiful, wonderful people, right? And would I talk a little bit about in my book around leaning with heart? This is where you really get into understanding better the leader and having the leader show up with more intentionality so that they on their own can make the right decisions and the right moves with their teams going forward. And to your point, like you mentioned, listening, like actually being open, I have a lot of thoughts on that.

Starting point is 00:28:11 And the way I talk to leaders is, look, what's important are two things. How you show up every day as a leader, like really be thinking about how you show up. Are you showing up in service of your team? Are you showing up ready to be an active listener? Are you showing up ready to understand the person across the table and what motivates them? So how you show up as a leader is critically important and you need to really define that for yourself so that you can be in your authentic state every day when you come in. And then the second piece is how you engage, you know, how you then engage your team. So, you know, and that is with empathy as a champion in the spirit of connecting their motivations. And so those are two important pieces in the equation

Starting point is 00:29:09 of being in my mind an intentional heartfelt, successful leader, how you show up and how you end day and she routine. I think those were always hallmarks of how I perceived you. I can't imagine finally get to the C-suite, this role that you'd been groomed to have for all these years. And in a short period of time, you face my health crisis, but coming out of it, she could have stayed with the company,

Starting point is 00:29:39 but through that, you decide to take the very difficult step to leave this company that you loved and you would grow up to take this gamble of starting something new, especially after having a health issue. Yeah, so it's funny when I talk to people who want to make a career change, I say, look, it doesn't have to be a crisis. me. It was a health crisis that pushed me that direction But it doesn't have to be a crisis financial health relationship Crisis for you to make a change For some people though they need that knock on the head and for me I needed that universal two by four outside the head for me to make a change because as you said

Starting point is 00:30:20 I was in the organization Living breathing this organization love the people in the organization living, breathing this organization, love the people, love the organization for so long. I was going for this role and now I'm there, right? I achieve success. Now, so I'm in the role, I'm working hard, I'm doing it for the right reasons, it's hard though, right? We're still trying to make change. We had three CEOs in the last three years I was there. I'm working the 70 hour work week, so I'm making trade-offs, all of that, but I would not have even thought to lead

Starting point is 00:30:56 because it was just the predetermined path and here I'm sitting, and I've achieved success. And so it was an interesting thing that happened in the sense that my company, Catalina, offered an executive physical. And so I had the opportunity to do this and I had never taken advantage of it, but I was worried about my husband.

Starting point is 00:31:20 My husband was very rest out in his job and I was very worried about him. And I thought, all right, how do I get him checked out? I'm going to go ahead and finally check this, this physical off my list, the physical, you know, the executive physical that the company was bugging me to go do. And I'm going to drag my husband and we're going to find out what's wrong with him. I was going to drag my husband and we're going to find out what's wrong with him. And so I went to the appointment that day with my husband and you go through a battery test to get baselines for the day and then you, you know, when you check the box and you go home.

Starting point is 00:31:56 Within the first hour of that visit, I knew something was wrong. So I was at my first appointment and I had the first doctor through and then the second doctor and then the nurses are whispering and and it was that moment that I got the purge you know finally to say something wrong. And they found two significant issues I had a hole in my heart and a tumor in my chest. And so now at 44 years old at this point, I learn that I have some serious things that I need to deal with.

Starting point is 00:32:30 And in that moment, everything that's important to you comes to the forefront, your family, and your health. And work did fade to the background. In that moment, also, I realized, because I know myself, I better start really paying attention here. I need to start paying attention to what's happening because there's a reason it's this serious. And so I started documenting, I took pictures and I started journaling and within 30 days

Starting point is 00:33:00 I was on the operating table having open heart surgery. So it was a pretty quick process to kind of diagnose and get me to surgery. During that time, like I said, I really spent time documenting what was going on because I knew once I got on the other side of this and I recovered and I got back to work, I'm a master at compartmentalizing and I was just gonna put all that in a little box and put it up on the shelf and I would miss this message. I would miss this opportunity that was here for me for a reason. So I got through the surgery. I came out the other side. I recovered. and then my work to be done was really getting back to work, but then really digging into what I needed to do different as a result of this experience, where then I could contribute

Starting point is 00:33:56 in a different way and take these learnings and do something more meaningful. I got back to work in February by May. I was sitting down with my CEO saying, okay, it's time for me to wind down. I need to exit and I need to make a different decision and take what I've learned and go help more people or go contribute in a different way. When you came back after having that health scare, did you see things differently than you did before? And if so, how? Oh yeah, my perspective was totally different.

Starting point is 00:34:31 I came back willingly and all what drove me to get back into that seat was the people, the relationships, my work family, and for them getting back into that seat, and but when I got there, the challenges were still existing and the work was still hard, but my perspective was different in that it shouldn't be this hard. We've already identified what it could take for this organization

Starting point is 00:35:00 to really turn it around. We know what to do, but we're just not doing it. I had a different outlook on it, which was, if I'm going to spend my time knowing this message, knowing what it would take, if I'm going to spend my time building upon that, the organization that I came back to didn't want to listen and didn't really want to take those steps. And it was that going to be that hard for me to try and create that change. It was time for me to go and allow other people, allow other voices, allow other people to fill my shoes and have the opportunity to create that change and that was okay. That was okay for me.

Starting point is 00:35:40 So my perspective was it shouldn't be this hard and I'm not willing, life is short, I'm not willing to sit here and continue to beat my head because maybe it's me and I'm not the right one to help this organization. So it was time. And I can completely relate to that. When I left Catalina within about 24 hours, I just felt overwhelming relief primarily because I was just beating my head against a wall. So I wanna take this into a little bit different direction. You got to hear an episode that I did with Claude Silver, who is the first chief heart officer in the world.

Starting point is 00:36:21 And it's a position that her and Gary Vee actually came up with together. And it's a position that her and Gary V actually came up with together. And it was a big shift for her because she was leading ad sales and just said, I just don't feel like doing advertisement anymore. But I really want to start working with the people and most importantly bringing empathy into the organization. Being an organization like we were, we had a chief human resources officer.

Starting point is 00:36:47 What do you think about the idea of instead of having chief people officer, that more companies have a chief heart officer? Oh, I think it's brilliant. I think it's progressive and I think the time is now. Now is the time that people need to feel more connected, to feel cared for, to feel seen, and to feel heard. The question then becomes how do you do that? And so the discipline, the function of human resources is critical. It always has been critical.

Starting point is 00:37:22 More times does not have a seat at the table. It's seen more as a necessary function as opposed to a true enable or for the organization. So even just the rebranding of chief heart officer, it sends a different message. One of, then, okay, we're making an investment in our culture, we're making an investment in our leaders to give them the soft skills necessary to

Starting point is 00:37:48 help our organization be to differentiate and continue to grow and be successful in this new world. It was interesting because on that podcast you asked a question about what you thought quad believed would be great advice for a young person coming up now and which they beveled down on as far as their skills. And I, as you asked that question, what went through my mind and I found it to be, is it a very inspiring question. The statistic that says something like 70% of all jobs that will exist in the year 2030 don't exist today. Proper, right? Those job descriptions aren't written. Well, then, and the other side of that is due to AI robotics, everything else, about four to 500 million jobs are going to disappear.

Starting point is 00:38:47 That's right. So, for a college student, they're first few years out of college, you can't really the technical skills in this ever-changing world where this is the norm now. Jobs are going to go away, and new jobs are going to spin up with a blink of an eye. What's going to help them sustain are the sosco, are the EI skills and capabilities. Their ability to lead with empathy, their ability to maneuver relationships, their ability to inspire excellence

Starting point is 00:39:22 among their organizations and their peers. They have to connect on a level that brings out the best in someone so that they're engaged, that they contribute the best of themselves. That's what's gonna sustain leaders into the future and that's where the investment needs to be made. And those aren't things where we go right to develop it.

Starting point is 00:39:44 But those aren't things where we go right to develop it. But those aren't things that we focus on when we think about the majority of our HR functions, right? We're worried about recruiting and we're worried about talent gaps and we're worried about capabilities for the future, but are we really thinking about the depth of the soft skills that need to be invested in. I think that's a great point. And I really think if you follow history and you look at the cyclical patterns, we're in a pattern now where basically the bottom has fallen out over the past 20, 25 years in startup growth and in new business transformation, meaning in this ecosystem that we had in the 70s, where you had lots of new companies being formed

Starting point is 00:40:35 and going away, you had a much greater turn of business fatality than what we're seeing now in the United States and across most western cultures. And what it's causing is huge economic and social gaps. I really believe that in the future, we're going to see, and we're already seeing it now, the rise of freelancing. But if you look at where we were at the start of the industrial revolution, But if you look at where we were at the start of the Industrial Revolution, you had black Smiths and you had tradespeople and you had this and that who were doing individual jobs, I think we're actually going to transform in that, but people are going to be mega-skilled

Starting point is 00:41:17 and freelancing to different companies. Company really understanding that's going to be the future and that they're going to have to lead them in a different way is absolutely critical. And I think the other thing that Claude brought up that I thought was really vital to the way she was leading is that000 like lows, although you could cascade it down. But I like that she was not only concerned about their goals about work, but she was really talking to them about life goals because if you want a person really engaged, the two have to go hand in hand. Because if not, the person's eventually going to lead the company because their life goals are going to be an imbalance to the corporate goals which I thought was another great point and is that something you're also seeing as you're working with companies?

Starting point is 00:42:14 Oh for sure. Yeah for sure. The question that came up for me as you were saying that and this is it's a rhetorical question but it's worth pondering on this right? What if it was more important who we are than what we do right? That's what we're trying to get at here. Is understand the who? That's really what's going to sustain and motivate and engage for the long, long. Yeah, I always hate that question that you get that always comes up in a social gathering. What do you do? The better question is, who are you? Who are you? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:50 Because I think we define so much, it's so easy to say, I'm EVP of operations for Catalina. But does that really who you are? I mean, you're a spouse, you know, you've got all these different things to play into it. Your work persona should only be a small portion of who you are as a human, especially if you want to be your best self and live intentionally

Starting point is 00:43:13 around your core values, because that's how we should all be living, aspirationally. Your whole self, live as your one beautiful whole self. I mentioned, when I told a little bit about my story I mentioned to you that I was a master at compartmentalization and putting things in a box and For years when you get the kids ready in the morning and you're rushing out the door and you're heading as soon as you walk into the office Package all that up and leave it at the door and you walk in and it's like,

Starting point is 00:43:45 okay, I have a job to do. I have things that need to get done and I have a certain persona. That's not sustainable. That doesn't work because with that compartmentalization biz, you think it's adaptability, but really it's lack of authenticity and ultimately it leads to the detriment of your fulfillment. When we talk about who, who are you, it is about learning a little bit more about that whole person because we shouldn't be encouraging and enabling people to leave part of themselves at the door, we should be embracing all parts of that person so that they can be authentic, adaptable, and ultimately fulfilled. And that to me is the message that's a very

Starting point is 00:44:35 important message. And when I talk about leading with heart and leaving a legacy, the crux of it that comes down to that, it comes down to who are you, and how do you, as meaning, live in a space of meaningful work but in a fulfilled way, because that's, if you are at your best, the company is gonna get the best results. I would say I was an expert at doing what you're saying as well, because it's so easy to say I'm just gonna deal with this another day

Starting point is 00:45:04 or I just don't have time for this. Especially in a world where more and more people are suffering from trauma of one type or another, that's exactly what I did. I think more people than want to admit have that going on in their life. And when you have that instability because you haven't dealt with these stuck points. When they could be, am I giving my family enough time?

Starting point is 00:45:27 Am I giving my spouse enough time? Am I giving myself enough time outside of these other things? It has a cascading impact on your whole being. And I think that's what's leading so many people right now. I have so much apathy, helplessness, along with the depression and anxiety, duality that we're seeing just cascade right now across all social economic levels. We're nearing the end of this interview

Starting point is 00:45:53 and I know you've got a great test that you have on your website that I wanted to make sure that the listeners were aware of so they can take like a hard test, right? Yes, yes. It is a heart leader assessment. And so if you pop on to my website, Trisha Manning.com, you will have the opportunity to take the heart leader assessment. And so you can score yourself and see where you fall as it relates to an intentional heartfelt leader or are there things that you're doing that

Starting point is 00:46:27 maybe represent more passive leadership? And so you'll score yourself and then get some tips and tricks on how to move in the direction of being a more connected heartfelt intentional leader. And so if anyone who's listening wants to jump onto my website and take that heart-leader assessment, and if they mentioned the podcast and contact me, I would be happy to mail a signed copy of my book, leave it with heart and leave a little legacy. I think it's a great idea to have a tool like that. As people come to you, I think it gives you also

Starting point is 00:47:01 a starting point to understand if you're gonna work with that person, where they're starting out on this hard scale. So I think it's brilliant. Thank you. Yeah. Tricia, in addition to your website, what are some other ways of people want to connect with you that they can? Oh, so I am on all the platforms with the exception, I would say, of Twitter. I haven't, I'm on Twitter,

Starting point is 00:47:22 but I haven't quite figured that one out. That feels like it takes a lot of time to be on Twitter. I don't know if you've figured that one out, but maybe we could talk after. But I'm on Instagram, so Tricia underscore, white cat coaching is the name of my business. Also LinkedIn, I post quite a bit on LinkedIn, a lot of articles and resources.

Starting point is 00:47:44 And then I'm on Facebook as well, but you can find all that on my website as well. If you want to dig a little deeper on me. Okay. And of course, I'll have all this in the show notes and I'll have great picture of your book with a link to where they can get it as well. So a must read. And I'll also put that other book, the advantage in the show notes as well, because I've read that years ago and I always love everyone of his books. Yeah, so it's a good, it's a timely and easy and really very great readers, very readers. I always end these things with a round of quick questions. I know one of

Starting point is 00:48:20 the things we both have historically enjoyed is going to small breweries. So what is your favorite type of beer? I really love the dark beers, but they're not very nice on my waistline, so when I'm trying to watch my weight, I go more for the light beer. Kind of boring, I know. I was talking to a local brewery owner, the biggest brewery owner in town, and I love porters and stouts myself, but he was telling me that they only make up about 3 to 5% of the whole brewery market based on sales. So that's why he agreed that he thought they were great, but that's why they don't make more of them. But yeah, we had agreed.

Starting point is 00:49:06 What's the highest percent? What's the highest percent? Did he say? I would have thought with all these microbreweries coming about, it would have shifted, but Bud Light by far in a way is still the most popular beer in America. And so he said, if you're going to be successful as a brewer, then you need to have a very approachable mass appeal beer that anyone can drink and think it's like a bud light. That's right. Don't worry as much about your waistline. I'm trying to. Well, I think I'm going to love the answer to this question. One of my favorite questions I've been asking is if you got to host the

Starting point is 00:49:45 late late show and you got to do car karaoke, who would you want to have as the guest with you? Oh, car karaoke. For sure, right now, it would be a dull. Is that the right answer? Or is your diagram of an artist, right? No, no, Adele is great. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:06 She has a new album, there's a whole bunch of controversy about her canceling her latest tour. I don't know if you've seen that, but anyway, I'm not a great singer, but I cranked Adele up and no one can hear how bad I am. What an awesome. Okay. If you're an aspiring author,

Starting point is 00:50:23 what would be the biggest lesson that you learned from writing your own book? Great question. The biggest lesson. So, I would, there is a strategy that I learned probably halfway through writing my book that I wish I would have learned earlier and it's the strategy of blog to book. And so if you are an aspiring author, I would highly recommend that you start blogging to take it and bite-sized pieces

Starting point is 00:50:53 and just start writing articles or blogs with whatever content you know is on your mind. Because all of that can be brought together then to really form your book's structure at a later date. I think that's a great point. The other thing that I used it for was to test ideas for my upcoming book, because I didn't know how things were going to resonate. So things that didn't resonate when I put them out, I actually went back and either tweaked them or got rid of them all together and then things. Sometimes I didn't expect Woodward's and Ann at all got the most downloads. So I think from that standpoint it helps you figure out the popularity of your content as well.

Starting point is 00:51:35 Yes, great. So the last question I would ask another one of my favorites is if you got to be an astronaut and got to go to a new planet, what would be a law, premise, guideline, if you were given the chance that you would put in place? Ooh, that's a good one. What immediately came to mind is crazy as the sounds of self-care. So I think our world is always on everything's urgent 24-7. We're on this hamster wheel that is really hard for people to get off. And we put ourselves at the bottom of the list always.

Starting point is 00:52:14 And this past summer, one of the things that I put out to the world with my following was this idea of 45 kind. And so it's similar to the idea, I've heard a 75 hard. Yes. Right? Okay, so the idea was 45 kind. And so it's similar to that idea. Have you heard of 75 hard? Yes. Right? Okay, so the idea was 45 kind. So what if for 45 days, you could be kind to yourself. One act of kindness or self compassion

Starting point is 00:52:37 towards yourself for 45 days, how might that change, how you're living your life, your mental state, how you show up with your family. And so it literally takes forcing my clients to make self-care a priority and they're all the better for it if they can create it, build it into their world as a habit or a practice. And so if I were to build a new community

Starting point is 00:53:06 planets that would be a requirement is time for self-care so that we really can make sure that we're taking care of ourselves so we could take care of others. I think those are all great. Well, Trisha, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast and sharing all that incredible information. Thank you, John, for having me. I appreciate it so much. What a great interview that was with Trisha Manning. And I wanted to highlight one of the other episodes

Starting point is 00:53:32 that I brought up during the podcast. That was my interview with Claude Silver, which was episode 101. She's the chief heart officer for VaynerX and it's a great episode. You definitely want to check out. We also have some other incredible interviews that are coming your way, including top podcast host,

Starting point is 00:53:50 Kathy Heller, as well as Dr. Katie Milpman, who wrote the book How to Change, and is one of the foremost behavioral scientists in the entire world. Dr. Sarah Faye, who wrote the book, pathological about her experiences, overcoming six misdiagnoses, and she does this in such an eloquent way in that book. We also have coming up Dr. Scott Schirr, who talks about HBOT therapy,

Starting point is 00:54:13 and how you can use HBOT to completely enhance your career. We also are doing the book launch for Michael Seligman on June 7th, and he is one of the foremost experts in the world around the science of secrets. So many great guests and content for you to consume and if you are new to the show or you would just like to introduce it to a friend or family member, we now have episode sturder packs both on Spotify and on the PassionStark website. These are collections of your favorite episodes we organize in the different topics such as overcoming adversity, how to live

Starting point is 00:54:46 Intentionally, entrepreneurship, relationships, and so much more. Please go to passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started and if there's a guest whom you'd like to see me interview or topic You want me to cover on our momentum Friday episodes? Please reach out to us an email at momentum Friday at passionstruck.com or you can hit us up either on LinkedIn, at John Aramiles, or on Instagram, at John Aramiles. Now, go out there yourself and become PashInstruct. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our show is to make Pash and Go viral.

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Starting point is 00:55:51 If you'd like to learn more about the show and our mission, you can go to passionstruck.com where you can sign up for our newsletter, look at our tools, and also download the show notes for today's episode. Additionally, you can listen to us every Tuesday and Friday, or even more of inspiring content. And remember, make a choice, work hard, and step into your sharp edges. Thank you again for joining us. you

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Tricia Manning on How to Lead With Heart and Leave a Legacy EP 143

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