Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Why Adult ADHD in Women Often Goes Undiagnosed | Shanna Pearson - EP 718

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

What if the chronic overwhelm, emotional chaos, and sense of being "too much" or "not enough" stem from Invisible ADHD rather than personal shortcomings?In this revealing episode of Passion Struck, Shanna Pearson, founder of the world's largest one-on-one ADHD coaching program and author of the bestseller Invisible ADHD: Proven Mood and Life Management for Smart Yet Scattered Women, joins John R. Miles. With over 26 years of experience and her own late-diagnosed ADHD journey, Shanna explains why ADHD in women often remains hidden or misdiagnosed as anxiety, depression, or character flaws. She draws from hundreds of thousands of coaching sessions to highlight internal struggles like masking, rejection sensitivity, rumination, and burnout that intensify in midlife amid hormonal changes.John and Shanna discuss the neurological roots of these experiences, why traditional strategies fall short for women, and practical tools from her book. The conversation centers on reclaiming agency: moving beyond endless effort to sustainable approaches that align with an ADHD brain, restore momentum, and foster genuine self-worth.If you have ever felt smart yet scattered, unseen by others and sometimes yourself, or exhausted by success that drains rather than fulfills, this episode offers validation and clear steps forward.Passion Struck was recently ranked #1 on FeedSpot’s list of the Top Passion Podcasts on the Web, recognizing the show’s ongoing commitment to thoughtful, human-centered conversations like this one.Check the full show notes here: https://passionstruck.com/invisible-adhd-in-women-shanna-pearson/Download a Free Companion Workbook with reflection prompts tied to this episode.All links gathered here, including books, Substack, YouTube, and Start Mattering apparel: https://linktr.ee/John_R_MilesPre-order You Matter, Luma: https://youmatterluma.com/For more about Shanna Pearson: https://expertadhdcoaching.comBook: Invisible ADHD available wherever books are soldIn this episode, you will learnWhy adult ADHD in women frequently goes undiagnosed or gets mislabeled as anxiety or depressionHow masking, people-pleasing, and emotional overwhelm conceal core ADHD traits in femalesThe impact of rejection sensitivity, self-doubt, and identity erosion on self-worthWhy symptoms often escalate in midlife due to perimenopause, burnout, and hormonal shiftsPractical tools from Shanna’s coaching and book for managing mood, creating state changes, and building self-trustHow to shift from constant overcompensation to strategies that work with an ADHD brainWhy naming the experience and accessing targeted support restores clarity and meaningSupport the MovementEvery human deserves to feel seen, valued, and like they matter.Wear it. Live it. Show it.https://StartMattering.comDisclaimerThe Passion Struck podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Passion Struck or its affiliates. This podcast is not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment from a licensed physician, therapist, or other qualified professional.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on Passion Struck. It bothers me when people refer to ADHD as a superpower. It really does because there's nothing about ADHD that makes life easier. And it's difficult to manage ADHD on so many levels, like in your relationships, career, personal health, name it. And so when people are like, oh, it's a superpower, you should be able to do like all of these things so much you've got this and you don't. And you know that life is really hard.

and you know that you're struggling and you know you're working a hundred times harder than every single human and longer than anyone. There's no superpower. And so then you just feel like there's something else that's wrong with you because you can't even use your superpower. You don't even know where it is. Like where's the superpower part of this? Welcome to Passionstruck. I'm your host, John Miles. This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters.

Each week, I sit down with changemakers, creators, scientists, and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection, and impact is choosing to live like you matter. Hey friends and welcome back to episode 718 of Passionstruck. We're continuing our series The Meaning Makers, an exploration of how meaning is built, sustained, and sometimes eroded across a life.

Last Thursday with Alex Emas, we examined the winner's curse. The paradox were success under uncertainty often reflects overestimation rather than skill. We saw how intelligent, capable people make costly choices when systems, reward escalation, confidence, and momentum while obscuring long-term cost. Today, we take that insight inward, because the same dynamics that distort markets also shape identity. When people spend years trying to succeed inside systems misaligned with how their minds actually work, the cost accumulates internally, as exhaustion, self-doubt, emotional overload, and a growing sense of invisibility. My guest today is Shauna Pearson.

is the founder of expert ADHD coaching, the largest one-on-one ADHD coaching practice in the world, an author of the new book, Invisible ADHD, with more than 450,000 coaching sessions delivered. Her work combines neuroscience, lived experience, and a deep understanding how meaning fractures when effort goes unseen. Jana's story begins with ADHD she didn't realize she had, and a question many people carry quietly for years. Why can't I just? To millions of people, ADHD expresses itself through overwhelm, emotional intensity,

difficulty, sustaining focus, and chronic self-doubt. Research suggests that up to 75% of women with ADHD go undiagnosed, often receiving labels that never quite explain their lived experience. Today's conversation centers on mattering. What happens when your internal reality is finally named accurately and how meaning begins to return when you can learn to work with your mind instead of pushing against it. In today's conversation, we explore why ADHD presents differently in women, how years of misunderstanding shape identity and self-trust, what sustaining support looks like beyond

medication alone, and how doing less with intention restores clarity and momentum. Before we begin, a quick note, this episode connects closely with the work I'm doing around inherent worth, visibility, which reminds us that significance, exists. before performance ever enters the picture. You can learn more at You Matterluma.com. And if this conversation resonates, please share it with someone who might need it. We'll leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

It helps these conversations reach the people who are looking for them. Now, let's continue the meaning makers with Shauna Pearson. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me for your hosting guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I am absolutely thrilled today to welcome Shauna Pearson to Passionstruck. Welcome, Shauna. How are you today?

I am doing fantastic. Thanks, John. How are you? Well, I'm a little bit jealous because you live in one of my favorite places I've ever lived, San Diego. I think the only place I liked more than that was the time I spent in Sydney, Australia, which to me is very similar to San Diego in many ways. That's really funny you say that.

We had a choice. We could have gone anywhere, but it ended up being boiled down. to two places. And one was San Diego and the other one was Sydney. My husband wanted to go to Sydney. And it was a fun time. The thing I love about the Australians is they work extremely hard, but they play just as hard as they work, which was really fun getting to explore all parts of that country. Wow. I want to go. That's one place I have never been that I'm dying to go to. I want to start out talking to you about your book. So you have a new book that you must be absolutely thrilled about, invisible ADHD. It's right behind you for those who are watching this. What does it feel

to have this book come out in the world? Honestly, it feels like a huge relief, which is interesting because it's been very difficult to write a book. So the process has been very stressful, but the reason the reason I wrote this book, they came to me. I did not want to write a book. I never had intended to write a book, but my coaching company is quite large and we're out there. And I think people know what we do. And then the publisher, McMillan, they came to me and asked if I would write this book. And they asked if I would write it for women. And I said, why? We work with men and women equally. And why would we want to just close it off to women? And they just said they wanted it for women maybe because there's not a tremendous amount out there specifically for women.

But the reason I said yes to the offer to write this book was over the past many years, there's a lot of people that come to us asking for help and desperately needing help. And I feel like when they finally reach out to a coaching company like ours, there's a lot of pain in their life. You know what I mean? There's a lot that has to happen behind the scenes for them to actually look into it and then press the button and then get on the call and there's so much. And so there's just so many people in so much pain and there's so many people who we speak to that cannot participate

in our coaching program for a lot of different reasons. And often it's affordability, but there's other reasons as well. It could just be timing. And when I read their forms and then they can't do it and then they write these emails of how much they need it and how much they wish they could, for me, it's honestly heartbreaking. It really is because the whole reason I do this is just to help people. And then to think that there's so many people that want it that just can't have it is distressing. When they asked me to write this book, it was an instant. I just want everything that we do. I want all of our tools. I want all of the magic and all of the how we do what we do in a very accessible place and just give it away. People have to buy a book, but just put it out there. I'm not going to do this.

where it's one tool and then I'm going to write a second book and then a third book. No, just put it out there. I want people to have these tools so badly. I know that they're going to work. And so now that the book is done, I feel this anticipation for an excitement for what's going to happen for people when they actually read it and then when they actually start implementing some of the things that are in here. I'm excited. Well, congratulations. I know just what it takes. I published my first one February of 2024. in the process of selecting a publisher right now for the next nonfiction book, which is written. So at least that part is behind me.

Okay, good. That's huge. That's the biggest part. And then I actually have a children's book coming out later this year. That really focuses on the topic of mattering. It's called You Matter, Luma. And I have to tell you, I thought that was 10 times harder than writing a nonfiction book because you have to whittle down your writing.

writing and realize how to intersect it with the illustrations, which having never written one before, was more difficult than I ever thought it was going to be. It was so difficult. I decided once I figured it out, I'll just write all 10 books in the series. So that's what I did. Oh, my goodness. Good for you. That's amazing.

That's amazing. I'm like, okay, I've written this book. There will, there will likely never be another book written by me and will, I will never be able to go through this process again. It took forever. And it's just like what you're talking about with matching illustrations, for people with ADHD, every single symptom is connected to every other symptom. There's no, you can't pull them apart and be like, you know, your time management is separate

from organization or separate from impulsivity because they're all related. So breaking them into chapters was next to impossible. Like how do you separate these ideas when they're all the same thing? But anyway, yeah. I understand. Well, speaking of children, when my son was young, he was diagnosed with ADHD, and he had what you typically would think of ADHD. He was extremely hyperactive like a lot of boys are.

I think in some ways he's grown out of it as he's gotten older. But in the introduction of the book, you write, most people associate ADHD with hyperactivity, but for many women, a lot of the hyperactivity is internal and therefore totally invisible. So I want to follow that quote up with the fact that you've called ADHD a hidden epidemic. Why are so many women in particular living with ADHD invisibly? Oh, because there's a lot of reasons. And I think it's really important for everyone to understand this. women, ADHD presents itself in women, like what was said at the beginning of the book,

it's a hyperactivity internally. And so it's really nonstop ruminating, catastrophizing, daydreaming, and really just being everywhere else in your mind, except for quote unquote, where you're supposed to be. And when you're like that for your whole life, because when you have ADHD, you're born with it. It's not something you develop. So when you're like that for your whole life, you're struggling. in so many areas. You struggle in relationships because, you know, it's hard to be present with other people

when you're internally non-stopping your brain in your school life. It's hard to pay attention in class because you tend to be paying attention on everything else that's a lot more engaging and exciting. And in your career, it's the same thing. You really want to do well. You really want to pay attention to things and you do. You pay attention to certain things, but not everything. And it affects us in our careers. And so when you're going through your life like this and you don't know why, that's the big piece is you don't know what's going on, you don't know you have ADHD, you believe that there's something wrong with you. And you believe that, and you don't know what it is. And you're like on a different frequency is everyone around you at the same time. Right. So you're missing things.

People are like talking over there and you're like hearing it over here. I don't know if that makes sense, but I hope it does. You don't feel great about yourself and you start to worry. So then we go to our doctor and we tell or a specialist and we'll tell them what's going on with us. And the immediate response is usually to give a woman a self-assessment for anxiety or depression. And so when we answer the questions on those self-assessments, it shows up that we have anxiety or depression when we don't because the symptoms are so overlapping. Almost all of the symptoms overlap. And we're not automatically given an assessment for ADHD.

And so that's a big deal. So now we're being misdiagnosed. A lot of millions of women with ADHD have been diagnosed or misdiagnosed with depression. And it's just missed because our symptoms are not as focused on executive function and organization because some of us are extremely well organized. It's not the same kind of symptoms. And so it gets missed. It gets missed a lot.

So it was interesting as I was going through your story. You and I, very different stories, very different upbringings, but we had one thing in common. We both felt essentially invisible. And you write in the book, no one even knew what was going on with me, not my teachers, not my parents, not even me. In my case, I felt invisible because when I was five years old, I mean, I've told this story many times on the podcast, but I got pushed from behind playing

tag, got thrown through a basement window and had a pretty severe traumatic brain injury. And everything changed. I had a speech impediment. All of a sudden, vision got impacted. I had cognitive issues. So I shrunk inside myself because I just felt different. Kids were treating me different. and so I became the shell of who I was before until I was able to break out of it.

Can you take us back to those early years when ADHD was shaping your life before anyone recognized it? That would be so difficult. It was, I feel like in my early years, I was, number one, I was silence. I have kids. And when my daughter was in kindergarten, there was a girl. in her class who had something called selective mutism. And I guess that's like a newish term from 2011 or 2012, but I had that. I never spoke a word for years when I was outside of my home. And I felt like there was just something so off with me. And I never, I just didn't fit in with

girls or with boys. And I was always at a different speed. I was always passed wherever they were, if that makes any sense. They were talking about something and I was always like a year ahead of them, even though I wasn't, right? Even though I was actually way behind them. And it's just, I just wanted to hide. And I did. I just tried to blend into the walls and not say a word and not get found out.

For what? I have no idea. But it was like that for years. It was like that for years. It was like I was embarrassed to be seen. Those were my early years with ADHD. You know what? I don't want to be quoted on this.

But it's like being in a different universe as a human. And you're in this universe with these other beings and you don't belong there. And you don't want to get found out. Well, I have a daughter who's got a sensory processing disorder, which is different than ADHD. But in some ways, the two kind of go hand in hand. I would think they do overlap. But she, just seeing how much harder she has had to work to keep up with her classmates, and how she has learned to overcome,

but it takes her so much more effort. It's interesting to see how we end up compensating and then overcoming the difficulties we had. You've yourself, Shauna, described yourself as the poster child for extreme ADHD. Was there a moment that finally led you to your diagnosis? There was. And I wanted to say one thing about your daughter.

Is it okay? Because what I've noticed. Yeah, for sure. Sure. What I've noticed after working with as many people, because I've learned a lot running my company because we have a coaching company and it's only for adults who have ADHD. So we always see the after. We don't work with kids. We see what happens with people after living with ADHD for this long. And one thing I can tell you for sure is that there is a huge difference with people who had a harder time in school compared to people that had that just flew by and got A's in their sleep. And the difference is like remarkable. The people that had to work really hard in general, at least in my world where people are coming in in their 30s, 40s, 50s, the people that had to work really hard tend to be doing a little bit better or a lot better in their careers. They tend to just, and it's like that having that work ethic. And the people that flew by are the ones that are still trying to fly by and aren't able to anymore.

they can't get away with just being, just having things coming easily for them. And I think it's the same, honestly, I think it's the same. I had to work so much harder than everyone I knew, everyone. And I was so angry about it when I was a teenager and when I was in college. But I think I'm doing a lot better than a lot of those people that had it much easier now, like at the end of the day, I know I am. And so I guess I'm grateful in some way. I guess that happened for a reason because it definitely taught me how to do things and get things done and go for it. Yeah. So I just want you to know, like for your daughter. I don't know how old she is, but there's definitely a light at the end. Well, she's senior in college and she went on to UF. There you go. She's done really well for herself. And she will continue to

because once college ends, like that's when the real fun begins, right? So you're trying to hold on to a job. Yeah. No, she's going to do fantastic. So can you take us back to what finally led to your diagnosis? A catastrophic event that happened in my life is what actually sent me to get a diagnosis. My life in my 30s was extremely tumultuous, dramatic, but not in a good way. And I was just like, when is this going to end? When is this going to end? When is this going to become easier?

And I was moving a lot. I was literally changing cities at least every year. I was changing boyfriends about every year as well. And nothing felt good. And in one of my relationships, something happened that was just where you go to bed thinking you're one person and you wake up in a completely different reality. I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but that happened to me. Yeah, I've experienced that before. So my life just got turned upside down in the worst way, possible and my whole identity just went, who am I? That was not me. And I had to move back to my parents' house where they were in a different city as I was. And when I was in that city,

I was talking to a friend who was also back in his house visiting his parents, not for the same reasons I was, but he was also in between. He was like in between jobs. And I was talking to him about what had happened because I needed some help. His dad happened to be, his dad is a psychiatrist. And so that was just lucky that it happened to be at his house telling him everything that was going on. His dad was overhearing us and literally just asked me straight up, have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD? And I was just like, what? In my experience, that was something that kids had. In my experience, because I used to, I had a job where I was working with kids.

And there was the teachers that were like, this one needs this medication. This one needs that medication. I'm like, okay. But he asked me about that by myself. And I was like, what? And but it wasn't so off when I heard him say it. So I went with him to his clinic and he had a woman diagnosed me, but she misdiagnosed me with depression because my symptoms were for sure.

When I did the self-assessment, my life was really rock bottom at that point. And I for sure presented as depressed. She diagnosed me with depression, put me on antidepressants. Those actually made me depressed. So then he took he I asked him if there was anything else. I don't think this is it. Is there something else? Like can you send me somewhere else?

And so he did. He sent me to an ADHD specialist who literally spent like a total of seven or eight hours with me over two days and dove right into my history like all of my. He wanted my report cards from kindergarten. He wanted my whole job history, my relationship history, everything. And he was just like you are. I have, he literally said I've never met anyone like you. you are the poster child for the most extreme ADHD possible.

And that was it. And when he told me why, it was just like, that made sense, that made sense, that made sense. That made sense. I was like, wow, that's it. Wow. I didn't even know that was something adults had, which sounds really silly to say that right now. But yeah, that's what happened. So I'm grateful.

Before we continue, I want to pause on something important. Listening to a conversation about ADHD is one thing. recognizing how often effort has been mistaken for failure is another. Many people spend years trying to fix themselves when what they actually need is a more accurate understanding of how they work and permission to build support around that truth. That's where reflection matters. Inside the Ignited Life, each episode in the Meaning Maker series is paired with a guided prompt and integration tools designed to help you translate insight into alignment without

urgency or self-judgment. You can join us at theagnetidlif.netedlife.net. Now, a quick break for our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. You're listening to Passionstruck on the Passionstruck Network. Now, back to my conversation with Shauna Pearson. I remember when I was working at Lowe's, there was an executive director who worked for me and had been employed at Lowe's for a while.

And he had a lackluster reputation. Moments that he shined, there were moments that. he flatlined. And I noticed when he was working with for me directly, that was the reputation I had before he came to work for me. And I had seen a little bit of it. But at the time that he worked with me, he was really sharp. He was really on point. I didn't really see that roller coaster that other people had seen. But then one of my peers happened to go into his office and happened to see on his desk that he had a prescription bottle on it that was a prescription for Adderall.

Okay. I remember this peer then telling a number of the other peer group. There were five of us that this guy was taking Adderall and they started to joke about it and then he got labeled. Why do you think that happens? And what are your thoughts on that? Why do I think that people joke about it? I mean, because to me, ADHD has been around now as a major diagnosis for decades.

Yeah. It's not like this is something new, et cetera. And this probably happened at this point, maybe 12, 13 years ago. Okay. But it still seems like they get stereotyped. It does. And there's still stigma. We have men who don't want their wives to know in our company.

This is all hush. They come for coaching and we can't. Because we love involving. family members. I feel like it's extremely helpful to have whoever you're living with, join your coaching sessions at least every four or five, six weeks, please. So we can all be on the same page and everybody knows what's going on and they can help support. But there are a lot of people that just don't want anyone to know at all. And I think it's just, I don't know why people would laugh at that. It's like laughing at somebody who has an inhaler on their desk.

And it's just, except for the fact that ADHD was associated with children, like what we were talking about before. And maybe that's what they were laughing at is like, always like a big kid, because we hear that a lot. But the fact is that a lot of people just don't want people to think that there's anything wrong with them. And so if there's a prescription on your desk at work, it's for some people it would be a sign of weakness there's something wrong with me i was born with a deficit i need to take something to help fix it which obviously to me is completely ridiculous because every single one of us is missing something on some level in some area of life there's not a single human who isn't and so i still think that but people like especially people who really need to

wear that mask and and look like a leader, especially people in very high up positions, they don't want to be found out because then people will blame this part of their life on, well, we can't trust you. You're not reliable. You're not this. You're not that. So I think that's, I think it's awful that people would laugh at that. But obviously people are people and they do awful things. But it's just as far as we go, as far as the people who have any ADHD or anything, know that there's no human on the planet that's not lacking something that you have. There just isn't. And so you need to know that deeply, regardless of whether you're taking medication for whatever you need or not. At the end of the day, we're all in the same boat.

So I want to change this scenario to the parents who are listening. So maybe they have a child who's got, maybe they haven't been diagnosed yet or maybe they know, but they're still struggling with it. So I'm sure they're asking their kids questions like you got asked. Why can't you just pay attention? Why can't you just finish? Why can't you stop interrupting? Why can't you get better grades? What do you recommend for those parents?

And what is the damage that's done when those types of questions are continually asked? The first part of my book, as I think, was why can't you just? I grew up with why can't you just in my head forever, probably until I left for university. And the fact is your child does not know why they can't just. They don't know. And they would like to know, but they don't. So it doesn't make sense to ask them. We need to know as adults that they can.

can't just, period. And when you have, if you're raising a kid and it's in your mind because, you know, you're able to remember certain things and you can put stuff away and you can remember your work or homework or whatever, why can't your kid just? If you suspect your child has ADHD or any kind of learning difference, they just can't just. And there's methods and tools and systems that will help them to be able to do these things for sure. But until they've got those lockdown, now you know why or you might know why now they can't

just. And so now it's up for you as a parent to be able to help them and possibly turn it around and ask yourself, why can't I just help my kid be able to do this in a different way than I do it because their brain is wired differently. They need to do things in a different way. So I feel like it's really helpful for parents who tend to say, why can't you just a lot to just start being like, well, why can't I just? And no, but it's really important because a child raised underneath, and I was and probably a lot, maybe you were too, raised inside of why can't you just, it knocks your self-esteem so severely and you can't recover from that. You can't. You can't. You can go to therapy for decades and you can do all the personal development you want.

but your self-esteem is going to be hurt for the rest of your life. So we have to do everything as parents to really help our kids see what they can do and what they can do extremely well so that they want to do even better. Yeah. So for that same parent or maybe someone who suspects someone that they're working with at their job has ADHD, for that person who has it, how does it affect their confidence and their relationships. You just talked a little bit about this,

about how it ends up shaping you if those questions are asked. But what does it really do for your self-confidence and your ability to connect with other people? I feel like the number one thing that affects us in terms of our relationships is growing up and spending your entire childhood and possibly young adulthood feeling misunderstood by everyone. Because like I was saying at the beginning,

we literally do exist on a different frequency. And I think anyone with ADHD is going to attest to this. We're in a different place, whether we're up here or down here. We're never like this with people. And so when you always feel misunderstood, you become, number one, obviously it hurts your self-esteem, but you become quite reactive. And I don't know if your son is like this, but we're always like this trigger constantly. And you over-explain.

and you overreact. And because you're just being missing. If anybody doesn't understand one thing, you feel like they're just not understanding all of it. And they're not understanding you and you're not, now they don't like you anymore. And just it goes so deep. And so we tend to, people with ADHD have a tougher time in relationships because of,

I just because of this underlying belief that no one's going to really understand me. No one understands me. Sometimes I don't understand me. And so it's really hard to be completely connected to another person when you feel like they're never going to understand you. And so fights become bigger, arguments become more frequent, and it's hard. It's hard. That's why it bothers me when people refer to ADHD as a superpower. It really does because there's nothing about ADHD that makes life easier. And it's difficult to manage ADHD on so many levels, like in your,

your relationships, career, personal health, name it. And so when people are like, oh, it's a superpower, you should be able to do like all of these things so much, you've got this and oh, you don't. And you know that life is really hard. And you know that you're struggling and you know you're working a hundred times harder than every single human and longer than anyone. There's no superpower. And so then you just feel like there's something else that's wrong with you because you can't even use your superpower. You don't even know where it is. Like, where's the superpower part of this. So one of the things that you explore in chapter six, you write that ADHD brains often unconsciously create drama. And I had this interview a couple years ago with my friend,

Dr. Scott Lyons. He wrote this book addicted to drama. Yeah. Why do ADHD brains create this drama and how does it show up? So it's really interesting because not a lot of people talk about this. the need for drama and the love for drama and ADHD. And it is definitely one of the symptoms, especially for women, but also for men. The reason is very simple. If you think about how, you know, how newspapers work, right? Like the, if it bleeds, it leads, right? And so anything that's like high intensity and interesting and engaging is going to grab our attention.

It's going to grab your attention, whether you have ADHD or not. And drama is engaging. Drama is exciting even when it's negative drama, even when it's like constantly bad and like travesties happening in my love life and in my job and I got fired again. And can you believe it? And all of this stuff that people are like walking around. It's like every single time you see them, you're like, okay, what happened this time? Drama kind of follows them around because they're somewhat unconsciously not attracted in a good way. but it's almost like a magnet.

Like they're just drawn to it because of the stimulus. It's engaging. It's exciting. It keeps us engaged. It turns on our brain and it helps us feel balanced on some level, even though it can be, and it usually is negative. So it's really important to if you, if this is like something that that you tend to fall into,

it's just really good to know. And then you can start to realize, okay, we love. We love stimulus. We love the quote unquote dopamine hits and always being like on. Because when you know people who are in like this drama state, they're on. They're not they're not like half asleep when they're telling you about it. They're usually like angry or excited. There's like a high emotion that goes along with it. And so if it's you and you do this or someone who does, there there are ways to I would say to replace the negative. drama and the negative stimulus for things that are more positive. And you have to do that intentionally. But if you intentionally replace it and we do this with our clients every single week, this is like one of the big things we do because we can't just have an empty space. Because if you have an empty space in your life, you're going to fill it with something. And usually it's not a great thing that you'll fill it with. So we intentionally create it with something positive. So you have that positive,

mental and emotional engagement instead of the typical drama that you tend to follow or that tends to follow you. And so slowly, it's not that slowly, actually, it usually only takes a few months, not a few years, a few months. You'll start to see that as you're intentionally putting positive stimulus into your life, it starts to take over the negative. I've always pondered this question. You hear a lot of people say that modern life and digital evolution is just making us more ADHD. This is just a natural coping skill that we have. Do you think it's that or do you think it's just spotlighting patterns that have been there that we weren't recognizing before? Yes.

And yes. Yes. The amount of non-stop information and content and engagement that we have access to is mind-blowing. The fact that you can't even watch the final credits on a movie at home, you can't watch them. You just watch this whole movie. And as the credits are going down in the beginning, it's showing you the next movie. You can't even come down off the one movie you were watching before you're like going into the next movie and then click now. to watch now. And then it's just non-stop. And so it is creating, it's not creating ADHD.

So I need to say that very clearly. It is not because we're born with ADHD. Our brains naturally have lower levels of dopamine, whether it's because we have less or because less is absorbed. We don't know, but we have less dopamine, period. Now, that's ADHD. But the fact is that a lot of people have ADHD symptoms just because we are habitually wiring ourselves right now to need constant engagement and stimulus. And so when there's like a moment of quiet, we don't know what to do. Something's missing. Something's missing.

And so like we look for something and it's usually, again, not a good thing. It's another movie or another game or another relationship or another drug or whatever you want to fill it with. We're looking for something because we are now being wired to constantly, there's this constant noise. And when the volume is down, it's not comfortable for a lot of us. So it's not ADHD, but it is definitely that need for more stimulus. I want to go back to talking about Adderall and other medications because in chapter four,

you go into this and you say pills don't teach skills, but I want to just do a personal story on this. A while back, I dated a woman who had been taking Adderall since she was probably in middle school. And she had reached a point where her doses kept going up and up and up. But when I was dating her, she told me that she couldn't function without being on the drugs. And that really always scared me, because to me, a drug is exactly that. It's almost for taking a depression drug. But to really treat the depression, you have to develop skills to master it. I would think the same thing is true with ADHD. So why does skills matter so much? And what's your recommendation? What do you coach people on? Okay. This is a huge topic. And skills are everything. Because number one,

And if, okay, so number one, medication. Let's talk about that. The medication that tends to be prescribed for people with ADHD are stimulants, which is great because it allows your brain to have more dopamine, which is what it needs. Okay, so that's a good thing. However, the stimulus will help you focus. So the ADHD medications, they help you focus and they do help you stay focused. However, and this is so important, they do not help you focus or stay focused on the right things.

So we have thousands of adults who have ADHD that are taking their ADHD medication and come to us for coaching because you can very easily be taking your meds and be on your social media feed for seven hours straight without even getting up to grab a snack because you're just so hyper-focused in whatever you're doing. and you go to bed the next night and you've done absolutely nothing. So it doesn't mean that you're going to be productive and like great at your job or grade in school. It just helps you stay focus. It's like putting blinders on, which can be very helpful if you know what to focus on and if you know how to design your track to getting from point A to point B. And so the skills are a totally different category.

And I believe you need skills more than anything. And if you're taking medication, that's awesome. However, you also need the skills to go with it because just staying focused for some people might be all they need. But for most people, you need to know what you're focusing on. You need to know about your priorities. And in order to know about your priorities, you need to know what you ultimately want. You need to know how to follow through and go from point A to point B without stopping and getting derailed and going on to something else, which a lot of us do. You need to learn how to communicate in ways that you're matching people rather.

than always being off and always being misunderstood or getting into arguments, you need to be able to manage your moods because people who have ADHD tend to have a difficult time regulating their emotions. These are all things you need to learn how to do that the medications don't teach you. It doesn't come with this little lingo thing and this is how you manage your ADHD all the one day. All they do is they help you focus. That's it. They don't help you focus on what you need to be focused on. And they don't tell you how to do what you need to be doing.

So it's two completely separate categories. I think the medications can be very helpful. I'm not against medication at all, but they are definitely not all you need. Especially like we had a couple years ago, or no, not a couple, probably three or four years ago, we started getting a deluge of people coming to us because there was a shortage of Adderall or like a lot of the ADHD medications. So they just couldn't even get them. That's going to happen. And in terms of what happened to your girlfriend where she had to keep going,

she had to keep increasing her dosage, she probably wasn't learning any skills. I'm guessing she wasn't learned. Tell me if I'm wrong. But I'm guessing she wasn't actually learning how to manage her ADHD in other ways. So she just had to keep relying. She had to stay reliant on the medication and up and up. And that's not good.

You don't want to be super high levels of amphetamines. Well, and also when you do try to break free from it, there's withdraw just like anything else, especially if you've been on it for decades. Yeah, if you've been on it for decades and you've been on a high dose, yes. However, if you've never been on ADHD medication and you're wondering about it, I think it's never a bad idea to try because you can go off it without any problem if you start on a small dose. And it might be exactly what you need to just help you get started in terms of,

focus and then obviously there's ways that there's our coaching program and there's a lot of other things out there that can help you do what you need to do. But the smaller doses might be all you need and they are very easy to get off of. So I wouldn't want people to be dissuaded from trying something that can help them as long as it's done in moderation. Yes. So at the beginning of the interview, you mentioned that you were pursued by your publisher and it wasn't necessarily something you wanted to write, but if you were going to write it, you wanted to pour your soul into it. So one of the things I thought was most helpful about the book, and we've spent some time right now giving the audience an understanding of ADHD, but you have over 100 different

strategies that are rooted in your decades of coaching. And some of these are emotional regulation tools. Some of these are reducing overwhelmed skills. Some of them are dealing with reframing negative self-talk. But I wanted to go through a couple of these that caught my eye. So what one was the importance of managing your time to manage your life? So why is it so important for people with ADHD to learn how to align tasks with their circadian rhythms? Oh, wow, because it's such a big deal.

Because we are mood-based, period, end of story. So a neurotypical person could feel horrible and have an easier time still doing whatever needs to be done. All right? I don't feel like it. I don't want to do this. I whatever, but I have this thing on my to do list and I have to get it done. So I was on a drug through it. A person with 80, she will basically not be able to do that.

Most of us will not be able to. And so it's that much harder to get things done when we're not, quote, unquote, in the mood to do it. And so we all have a natural circadian rhythm. Like we really do. And it could be opposite. You and I could have completely opposite rhythms. But we all have our own. And I think that everyone's exhausted by 3 p.m.

That's what I think. But it turns out that some people like, that's their second wind. It's exactly like between 2.30 and 3. They're just like ready to go again. Back to work. And so you have to go with how you feel in terms. terms of managing your time because you're going to have things that you have to do, regardless of what kind of job you have or even if you have a job, there's things you have to do.

And so it's important to, I would really say, it's important to work with your brain and know when are you more, like when is your brain more energized and when do you normally feel good, naturally do your harder tasks at that time? Just do them. And then when you're normally, turned off and it's almost impossible to get anything done. You'll notice that that's usually at a certain time of day or there's like a few hour window, whatever it is. That's when you schedule your easier tasks. And this one switch, because it's a big switch, John, because a lot of people, let's say if you're a morning person, a lot of people tend to spend those, like that time doing the most meaningless things. And they're just like scrolling through their phone reading the news or they're

just like drinking their coffee. But it's like that's their most engaged, their brain is its most engaged peak time. And so they could be doing something a lot more productive that would save them about three hours later on in the day when they really don't want to. And matching your tasks with your circadian rhythm, I think in my experience with all of our clients, it's a game changer.

It really is and it's very simple. I think it's good for anyone. And that's exactly what I do. Like all my writing, my deep thinking, if I'm writing a book, try to start as early as I can in the morning. If I'm really in book writing mode, I'm in front of the computer at 6 o'clock in the morning, and then I'll take a break at like two, three hours into the day.

And I put a lot of my answering emails, administrative stuff in the back half of the day. See, you're living proof. How many books have you written? And you've got like the 10, what you were talking about before, like a 10 series and of the kids, of the children's books when those are going to be coming out. That's exactly what you need to do. most people think they need to do things at a certain time or based on how other people do them. But you don't.

If you have a brain that's wired in any way differently or just your, however you are wired, that's where you're going to be most effective. That's where you're going to be more productive. Yeah. And since I brought up that gentleman I worked with at Lowe's, I was talking about like people thought he was on a roller coaster ride, which really to me is one of the things you focus on is how do you stay on track? and follow through.

What are some of the best hacks for people with ADHD for consistency? For consistency or for following through? Well, I think it's a little bit of both because to me, following through, if you're not doing it consistently, people pick it up. Right.

People notice. People do notice. And more importantly, is you notice. As soon as you notice that you're off track, especially if you're used to being off track a lot, you'll tend to fall down the track. Like you'll just tend to just jump off of it.

And there's the physical management strategies and then there's the mental management strategies. I think a lot of us forget to ask why we do what we do. I think so many of us, especially today when the volume is so high and there's so much coming at us from every possible direction, we tend to, even when we, when we're, we don't, if we don't have ADHD, we tend to be in reaction mode a lot. And we're just like falling into things and following what's pulling us down here or down this track or down that track. And we don't actually intend to be on that track. And so I think it's extremely important for us to remember just to ask why we're doing what we're doing and why it's a

priority for us. So when you're talking about consistency and following through, what do I need to follow through on and why? And lock yourself into that because when we live 24-7 in a reaction mode, which I believe is like most of the human race at this point, it's really easy to forget. And I think a lot of us do. And we have these moments, this like minute where we're on,

we see a meme and it reminds us to be grateful and to remember and to count our blessings. And it's just like in our brain and then out of our brain in one second. So write down. if you actually have something that you want to follow through on, write down why and write it down and make it so that it's visible and that you have it in front of you somewhere. And I don't mean creative vision board or anything like that. Just write down your why and go a little bit deeper and try to find out like really why. Because it's usually not about looking better or making more money.

It really isn't, even though that tends to be a lot of people's immediate wise. It always goes deeper. and when you're more emotionally, like I was saying before, we're very emotion and mood-based. When you're emotionally attached to what you want to follow through on and it's pulling you, you will stay engaged. You won't jump off that track nearly as easily as if it's just something that you're reacting to for no reason. So you have to go why.

You have to remind yourself and your brain, why? What's important? And that's going to get you to be much more emotionally attached. And that's everything when it comes. comes to ADHD. And then there's practical things you can do. If you're working on something and it's been two hours and you're losing track or you just went down a rabbit hole on the internet, get off your butt and do a physical state change,

which I'm a huge believer in physical state changes because as when you, we have like our physical, our mental and emotional, it's like everything is a state. And the easiest, if you're feeling bad, you can't just tell yourself to feel better, right? But if you're doing something with your right hand, you can tell yourself to do it with your left hand. Okay. So the easiest state for us to change is our physical state, not our mental state. But our physical state affects our mental state. Like they're all, it's all attached.

So the best way to get back on track if you're getting off track, honestly, is just to change your physical state, whether that means like getting up and like putting on some music and just like going for a walk or whether it means this is so bad, but some of our clients have fallen in love with this, which is a physical state change doesn't mean exercise necessarily. It just means doing something physically to wake up your brain. And so that sucking on a breathment, like a really strong one, and then drinking an ice cold glass of water, I don't know why. But this really, it is invigorating times 10. There's different ways that people can wake themselves up and get more into their body. And that helps them get back on track very quickly.

Like sitting at your computer and going on another website is not going to help. But a physical state change will. Being much more emotionally attached to the why behind what you're doing, that will. I'm just curious. How have you managed to stay off social media while building the world's largest ADHD coaching practice? Isn't that crazy? People don't understand. I don't really understand it either.

I don't like social media just because I like it. I like it for some reasons. I love that you can get back in touch with people that you haven't spoken to in 40 years, that kind of thing. But what it does to my brain is not fun. And so for me, I feel like social media has to be something in like teeny little microdoses, right? And 10 minutes at a time here. there. But that's very hard for people. So I think ADHD and social, it's like social media is like kryptonite for an ADHD or. And you have to be very careful. So I have managed to stay off of it

the way a child manages to not eat chop liver. It's just not, it's fun. It's not fun for me. I just, I'm very self-aware. And I think you probably are too. So like, I noticed that. when social media was like a thing at the beginning, like way back now, I'm totally dating myself. But I was on it a lot and I never felt good after an hour on it or two hours on it. I would just feel tired. I felt tired and I never felt good about myself. So I think it's really good for things like I think podcasts are amazing if you're learning something. That's not to me.

That's awesome because you can listen to that in your car. You can listen to that while you're doing something in it and you're actually growing. But most social media doesn't help us grow. And that's the social media I don't really involve myself in. And one of the things I try to get people to do on this podcast is to implement what you listen on the show. And I think a lot of people listen to podcasts and they don't do anything. So we actually started a substack and we're like going overboard. We're writing like accompanying substack posts for these episodes.

But in them, we're putting complete workbooks. So they can. my gosh. So we go through and we highlight the different strategies we talk about. Since I've read the book, we also put some of the information from the book into the workbooks as well to get people to take that step, because what's the point of wasting your time if you're not going to implement what you're hearing? So I love that so much. I love that so much. You've read my book. You probably know how many times I say in my book. Don't just read about this. Do it. And I say that in different waves, at least 10 or 15 different times throughout this book. Don't just read about a strategy.

Implement it. Try it. Do it. This might sound easy. This might sound obvious. Please try it in your life. Like right now, I will wait for you. I actually say that in my book because we already have information. Nobody is lacking information. It's doing it that makes. the difference. It's the only thing that we need to be doing differently is actually implementing any of the information that we're given. So I love that you do that, John. That's so cool. That's amazing. Yeah. To start a movement. Every podcast should do that. That's a growth mindset. You know who told me to start doing it was my friend Terry Cole. I'm not sure if you know who Terry is. If you don't, man, you got to get on her podcast. She's great. Okay. But she does it on her show too.

So, listener, if you like my show, her bit. Go to Terry. Yeah, her big thing is boundaries, but she talks a lot about a lot more than that. Wow, that's huge, especially for people with ADHD. Terry, if you're listening, I'm giving you some free promo today. So, Shauna, if a listener is dealing with ADHD and they just wanted to implement one starting point from the book today, what would you recommend? Do less. Do less, not more. Do less at a time. By doing less at a time, and this is like a rule that you would have to live by, not just like an idea. By doing less all at once, you will end up doing more. That is a fact. I feel like we've proven that since I started my coaching program. We have this part of our program called One Focus. And every single week, a client gets. gets one focus. It's like a one thing that they need to do. And it's usually something that's two or three minutes a day. Everyone fights us about this. Like these are high level people. We have

doctors who are clients. We have like CEOs of gigantic companies. They're like, you're not giving me one thing to do. Are you joking? What am I paying for? But at the end of the session, they get one action that they have to implement. It is remarkable how this compounds. Because every week they're getting one every week so after two months we've already gotten eight and they're doing it every single day and after three months is 12 and so you don't realize it but thinking about only doing that one thing at a time allows your brain to totally absorb whatever it is that you need to be doing and rather than trying to do 13 things all at one time and your brain absorbs none of it and then you have to keep repeating it and doing it again and correcting it and doing it again and again and again

and it takes forever. This is just like the one thing that I would love for people to start thinking about and then start doing is doing less at a time and believing and trusting that it will allow you to do a lot more. And it'll alleviate tons of overwhelm, which tends to paralyze people and make us not able to do anything. That's one of the biggest secrets I try to tell people about not only on this podcast, but in my book as well, is it it's the micro actions.

it's the micro consistency of doing small things in a repeated fashion that's going to get you to change quicker than anything else in your life. That's exactly it. Microchoices that you make. That's exactly right. So the micro choice, what you're saying, that's what we call the one focus. That's it. And that's what we do.

Like this book is chock full of all of that. And not only are we telling you to do one small thing, we're telling you what to do. Here's a small thing that you're going to do this. And every single, you just do it. Just do one. If there's like a hundred things in this book or in any other books that you might be reading, just do one. Don't think that you need to do all of it because that won't work.

Just do one. And you'll see how quickly things actually change for you in your real life. I feel like a lot of us don't trust that. We think that we have to do everything all of the same time. And it has to be more and more. And that's why people are struggling so. much because they're not living up to their potential. They're doing less. They feel like they're always behind and it's extremely stressful. Absolutely. And I love how you end the book because I

think this is something that's true, whether we're talking about ADHD or anything you want to improve in your life. You're limitless when you learn to work with your brain, not against it. It's such an important message. It is. We really are. I'm learning that every single client that comes into our program teaches me what's possible. And we have so many people who swear on their life that nothing will ever help them. And then something does help them. And then this helps them. And we help and we help them. And it's not that difficult. So I promise that when you know what to do for the way that your brain is wired, your life will start to fall into place. And things will start to get easier, but you have to learn. You have to figure out, like, what do I need to do to work with

my brain? And that's it. I think we're all designed a little bit differently and just own that. Absolutely. Well, Shauna, it was such a joy to have you today. Congratulations on your book. And thank you again for giving us the honor coming on Passion Struck. Thanks, Sean. It was really fun to be here. I'm really glad we got to have this conversation. Thank you. That brings us to a close of today's conversation with Shauna Pearson. What stayed with me the most is how powerful understanding reshapes identity. When patterns finally have a name, effort softens. When systems adapt to the person rather than the person conforming to the system, meaning becomes livable again. Shana shows that alignment restores trust and that self-worth grows when we stop asking ourselves

to perform correctly and start allowing ourselves to function honestly. As we continue the meaning makers, this conversation carries us forward in an important way. Alex Ema, showed us how success under certainty creates hidden costs. Johna Pearson helped us see how those costs surface internally when people override themselves for years. And on Thursday, we move to where many of those patterns first take shape, the family system. I'll be joined by Dr. Robin Kozloitz, clinical psychologist and parenting expert. Our conversation centers on post-traumatic parenting, and we discuss how boundaries, self-worth, and mattering are formed early, and how families can cultures of emotional safety regardless of the past.

Not only will your damage not damage your kids, but your damage can be the catalyst for you to break the cycle, right? Your damage can actually make you into a better parent. You're not flawed. In some ways, you're uniquely qualified to parent because you know what your values are. If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love for you to share it with a friend or a family member. Also, please leave five-star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify and let us know what stood out most. Want to go deeper, visit theagnitidlif.neted.com for workbooks and curated insights from this episode. Check out our YouTube channels at John R. Miles and Passion Struck Clips for the full video and highlights. And remember to explore start mattering.com for intention-driven apparel.

It reminds you daily, you matter, live like it. As we continue the meaning makers, remember, significance grows where understanding replaces strain. I'm John Miles, and you've been passion-struck. Hey, Ontario, come on down to BentMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive the Price is Right Fortune Pick has to offer. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show, only at BetMGM. Check out how we've reimagined three of the show's iconic games,

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