Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Why Mattering at Work Is the New Metric Leaders Must Track | EP 573

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on Passion Struck. You work hard, you show up, you give everything you've got. And yet, why does it sometimes feel like none of it makes a difference? Why does it feel like you could walk out tomorrow and aside from a grief goodbye email, nothing would change? You're not alone, and here's the shocking truth. The reason people check out isn't what you think. Most of us assume people quit because of money, stress, or burnout.

Starting point is 00:00:27 But what if I told you that there's something even deeper at play, something most leaders completely overlook? And that's exactly what we're unpacking today. Because there's one shift, one fundamental truth, that transformed a global company, built unshakable teams, and proved that the best leaders don't just get results, they make people want to stay. Trust me, you'll want to hear this. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips and guidance of the

Starting point is 00:00:58 world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passion struck. Hey there, passion struck fam. Welcome to episode 573. Whether you've been with me for a while or this is your first time, this is where we challenge conventional thinking and create lives of impact.

Starting point is 00:01:45 Earlier this week we had two incredible conversations that challenged the way we think about fulfillment and excellence. Tuesday, Dr. Shigeo Ueshi joined me to explore a psychologically rich life. Why success isn't just about happiness or achievement, but about collecting meaningful, diverse experiences. Thursday, I sat down with Catherine Morgan Schaffler, broke down the truth about perfectionism, why it's not something to fix but something to master. And today we're shifting the focus because what if the missing piece isn't just about personal fulfillment but about how we lead and how we're led.

Starting point is 00:02:20 So let me ask you something, have you ever busted your ass at work, poured everything into a project, only to feel like no one noticed? Like your ideas don't land, like you're invisible, like you could disappear tomorrow and aside from an awkward goodbye email, nothing would change.

Starting point is 00:02:39 That feeling, that's what makes people check out and it's not about paychecks, it's not about promotions, it's not even paychecks. It's not about promotions. It's not even about job security. People don't quit jobs. They quit when they stop feeling like they matter. And yet most leaders are so focused on numbers, revenue, efficiency, KPIs, that they forget

Starting point is 00:03:00 the very one thing that actually drives results. People feeling seen, heard, and valued. And here's the real truth. People don't leave because of a bad quarter. They don't leave because of a bad boss. They leave when they feel invisible. And the data proves it. Gallup reports that only 31% of employees feel engaged at work. 70% of high performers would take a pay cut to work for a leader who makes them feel appreciated, and 33% of employees leave their jobs just because they feel uninspired and want new challenges. Let me repeat that. People would literally make less money just to feel like they matter. So here's

Starting point is 00:03:39 the real question. Are you leading in a way that makes people want to stay? Because this episode isn't about soft skills. It's about the metric that changes everything. The metric of mattering. And before we get into today's episode, if you're new here, welcome to Passion Struck. This platform is more than just a podcast. It's a movement. With over 570 episodes, we've built a global community dedicated to unlocking human potential. And I know it can be overwhelming to know where to start. That's why we've created episode starter packs, curated playlists on topics like leadership,

Starting point is 00:04:14 mindset, and resilience. Find them at passionstruck.com slash starter packs or on Spotify. Want even more? Subscribe to my live intentionally newsletter at passionstruck.com Slash newsletter for exclusive insights and don't forget to subscribe to YouTube for behind-the-scenes content and highlights So let's get real for a second if you're leading a team managing a business We're just trying to build a meaningful career. You have to ask yourself Are you creating an environment where people actually want to stay because today's episode isn isn't just about leadership, it's about the core human need that makes all the difference. Mattering. We're diving into why people disengage, how

Starting point is 00:04:52 great leaders create a culture where people thrive, and most importantly how you can apply this whether you're leading an entire company or just leading yourself. Thank you for choosing Passionstruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. I need to talk to you about something that's been on my mind for a long time. Something I've been researching for years

Starting point is 00:05:20 and I'm finally ready to break it down because I believe this one fundamental issue is at the root of why so many workplaces are struggling, why employee engagement is at an all-time low, why burnout is skyrocketing, and why great talent is walking away. And it's this. What if we've been measuring leadership all wrong?

Starting point is 00:05:40 I want you to think about something for a second. When we talk about leadership, what's the first thing we measure? We track revenue, we analyze efficiency, we optimize for market share, productivity, and growth. We assume that if the numbers look good, leadership must be working. But let me ask you a different question. When was the last time you asked yourself if your people feel like they matter? Because here's the truth, 71% of executives agree that high employee engagement is the number one driver of success.

Starting point is 00:06:12 Companies with a thriving corporate culture grow revenue, get this, four times faster than their competitors, and 84% of employees feel more motivated when recognized for their work. So if these aren't the statistics, why are so many companies ignoring them? Why are so many leaders losing great people over something that they could easily fix? Because here's something I have learned. The greatest leaders in history weren't just masters of execution.

Starting point is 00:06:40 They were architects of significance. They built companies where people didn't just work, they belonged. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. Because at the end of the day, the best leaders don't just deliver results, they make people feel like they truly matter. Now I want you to pause for a second and be real with yourself. Have you ever checked out at work, not because you hate the job, but because you feel like no one cared?

Starting point is 00:07:07 Yeah, that's the problem we're talking about today. Why people really quit, and why it's not what you think. Let's start with a quick thought experiment. Imagine you're part of a high-performing team at a well-known company. Your boss is competent, the pay is solid, the work is even intellectually stimulating. On paper, everything looks great, but deep down something is missing. Your contributions feel unnoticed, your ideas

Starting point is 00:07:35 they never seem to get traction. The higher-ups make decisions in a vacuum and there's no real sense that your work truly matters. At first, it's subtle, but over time, something happens. You start disengaging, and that shows up because you stop speaking up in meetings. You contribute less and less. You stop volunteering for high-stakes projects. And eventually, despite the salary, despite the benefits, despite the prestige, you start looking elsewhere.

Starting point is 00:08:07 Does this sound familiar? Think about this. High performers don't leave for money. They leave for meaning. As I mentioned earlier, 70% would take a pay cut just to work for a leader who gets it. This is so important I want to say it again. People would literally make less money just to work for a leader who makes them feel seen. That is how powerful mattering is.

Starting point is 00:08:31 This led me to study the psychology of why we stay or why we leave. And this is where my conversation with Dr. Shige Ueshi, who was on the show earlier this week, changed everything for me. Dr. Awishi is a leading psychologist and the author of Life in Three Dimensions. And in that podcast, we get into this incredible discussion about what makes life fulfilling. And he shared something that completely shifted how I think about leadership. For decades, we've been told that a good life is about two fundamental things. First, happiness, a life filled with comfort, pleasure, and stability. And then second, meaning a life driven by purpose and long-term contribution.

Starting point is 00:09:15 It sounds great, right? Except for one problem. Dr. Awishi pointed out something fascinating. In countries that rank highest in happiness, think of places like Finland and Denmark, people report high life satisfaction. But when you dig deeper, many also describe their lives as predictable, maybe even a little boring. That's when he introduced a missing piece, psychological richness. A psychologically rich life isn't just happy or meaningful, Dr. Ueshe told me. It's filled with varied, novel, and perspective-shifting experiences.

Starting point is 00:09:50 It's about exploration, challenge, and embracing the unexpected. And that's when it hit me. This is exactly what great leaders create. The best workplaces aren't just efficient. They aren't just mission driven. They create death. They create growth. They create an environment where people

Starting point is 00:10:11 aren't just performing, they're evolving. This is why mattering is the single most overlooked metric in leadership. The one that determines whether people stay, whether they thrive, and whether they give their best efforts every single day. So let's talk about the mattering effect, why some leaders inspire loyalty and others

Starting point is 00:10:31 don't. I've always thought there are two kinds of leaders. Let's talk about the first one. Leader A is someone you know probably very well. They're results-driven, efficient, and disciplined. They run a tight ship. They set clear goals. They hold people accountable. And on paper, they look like they're crushing it. But then, there's Leader B. Leader B does all of what Leader A does, and then something more.

Starting point is 00:10:58 Leader B makes people feel like they matter. They pause to recognize contributions, not just big wins, but the effort behind them. They listen, not just to presentations, but to the people behind them. They give ownership, empowering their team instead of hoarding decisions. They invest in people's growth, not just in outcomes. And at first glance, the difference between leader A and leader B seems small. But over time, under leader A, people do their jobs, but they rarely go above and beyond. Turnover is steady. Engagement is lukewarm. They perform, but more importantly, they don't care. Under leader B, people take initiative. They contribute beyond their job descriptions. They stay longer.

Starting point is 00:11:46 And they do it not because they have to, but because they want to. And that's the difference. Leader A's team is productive, while Leader B's team is invested. So it begs the question, what kind of leader are you? Leader B is the type of person that I described in my book Passionstruck. I describe this as a gardener leader, someone who nurtures their team and invest in them. If you want to lead a team that thrives, that innovates, that sticks around for the long haul, you have to stop focusing on results first.

Starting point is 00:12:22 You have to start focusing on mattering first. And I don't mean vague recognition or another useless corporate engagement survey. I mean real, tangible, day-to-day leadership behaviors that make people feel seen, valued, and essential. And this begs probably the most fundamentally important question of today's conversation. Would you want to work for you? Let's be honest, because if the answer is no, you already know the problem. So let's talk about the leadership that changes everything.

Starting point is 00:12:57 Theory is great, and look, it's one thing to talk about great leadership, but let me tell you about someone who lived it. Someone who changed how I lead forever. His name is Jay Skabinski. When Jay became global CIO of LendLease, a $7 billion multinational company, he walked into a leadership culture that was broken. The CIO before him? It was all about cost-cutting and efficiency.

Starting point is 00:13:22 People were treated like cogs in a wheel. It was a numbers game. Just keep things running, get the budget down, have less people do more and move on. There was no recognition of contributions. There was no ownership. There was no investment. It was just cost cutting, black and white,

Starting point is 00:13:40 get to a certain number, do more with less people, and I think we can all relate to that type of environment. And then Jay arrived, and he changed everything. At the time, I was the Chief Information Security Officer at LendLease. And here's something I love about Jay. He didn't just see me as the person in charge of security. Instead, he saw my potential.

Starting point is 00:14:03 He pulled me aside and asked me to lead the largest IT infrastructure project in the company's entire history. A global transformation, four continents, 20 major security and infrastructure initiatives, all with a small but mighty team. We called it Project High-Rise and here's what made Jay different. He knew when to push you to greatness and when to give you a helping hand. He had this rare ability to balance high expectations with deep trust.

Starting point is 00:14:31 He wasn't just about hitting numbers. He was about building people. And guess what happened? In just 12 months, our tiny but fierce team overhauled our IT infrastructure and security across the entire company in five continents. We cut down security remediation time. What used to take 150 days was now being detected and managed in real time. We implemented security and

Starting point is 00:14:56 identity management across the entire company. We prove that massive transformation doesn't require massive resources, just the right leadership. And here's the kicker. We did it for 1.8 million. For most companies, that kind of project would have dragged on for years and cost tens of millions. We did it faster, cheaper, and better. And we did it because Jay led with trust, vision,

Starting point is 00:15:20 and relentless focus on what actually matters, his people. That was the leadership lesson that stuck with me. I watched Jay handle some of the toughest business challenges that you could imagine. High stakes, pressure from the top, impossible expectations. But Jay never led with fear. He never let urgency turn into panic.

Starting point is 00:15:43 He made sure every single person on our team knew that their work mattered. And because we felt that, we gave it everything we had. That's what true leadership looks like. And here's what I know for sure. I'm a better leader because of Jay Skabinski. And now, my mission is to pay it forward. What about you? Because at the end of the day, people don't quit companies. They quit leaders. So here's my challenge for you. Are you the kind of leader that people fight to stay for?

Starting point is 00:16:15 Are you like Jay Skabinski? Or are you the reason they're updating their resume? Because this right here, the way you make people feel, this is the real metric of leadership. When I wrote my book, Passion Struck, I ended up studying over 750 leaders over a seven-year period. And when I start thinking about the leaders

Starting point is 00:16:39 who made the biggest impact, the ones who truly ignited something in people, as I looked at those 700 plus leaders, I kept coming back to four core dimensions. If you want to know whether you're the kind of leader people will remember, the kind of leader people will fight to work for, then this is what you need to measure. It ended up becoming four different questions that profoundly changed the way that I think about leadership. It starts with the first question. Do you believe your leadership matters?

Starting point is 00:17:10 Let's start with you, because if you don't believe that what you do matters, why should anyone else? And this leads me to a story. As I was transitioning from my job at Dell, I had the opportunity to interview at Microsoft to become their chief information officer. And at the time, Steve Ballmer was leading the company. And it was pretty shocking what I discovered during my interview process. The people I encountered throughout the interview process, all they cared about were numbers. I never heard anyone talking about culture. I never heard anyone talk about values. I never heard anyone talk about values.

Starting point is 00:17:46 I never heard anyone talk about a psychologically rich environment where they were being allowed to grow. And then during that interview process, I met someone who was completely different than the rest. It was Satya Nadella. And while I was interviewing with him, he told me that Microsoft was a shell of what it used to be. But he believed that there was a possibility to transform their culture and become the company that they once were. And as we've seen with Satya's work, now as the CEO of Microsoft, he has completely transformed Microsoft's culture. When he took over in 2014, the company, as I saw it, was stagnant. Employees were stuck in silos. Innovation was slow and engagement was low.

Starting point is 00:18:34 So what did he do? He focused on one thing. One thing that Carol Dweck pioneered, growth mindset. He shifted the culture from know- all to learn it all. He made curiosity, learning, and people development part of Microsoft's DNA. And guess what happened? Microsoft stock tripled. Innovation skyrocketed and employees started believing in their work again. That's what personal mattering looks like. If you're disengaged, exhausted, and running on

Starting point is 00:19:04 autopilot, your team will be too. But if you lead from a disengaged, exhausted, and running on autopilot, your team will be too. But if you lead from a place of purpose, clarity, and impact, your team will follow. Now let's turn this back to you. Do you wake up with a sense of purpose? Are you leading in alignment with your core values? Are you creating an environment where people don't just perform, but actually thrive? Because how you show up sets the tone for your team. In fact, 58% of employees say they wish their workplace is surveyed engagement more often. And here's why that matters.

Starting point is 00:19:38 If you're not paying attention, you're not leading. And here's what I've also learned. The way you feel about your own leadership is contagious. So this leads to a leadership challenge that I want to take you through. I want you to take 60 seconds. You can pause the podcast right now. Write down one sentence that describes the impact you believe that you're making. Be honest.

Starting point is 00:20:01 Does it feel true? Or does it feel like something you're still working toward? And this leads to the second question we need to ask ourselves to understand the four core dimensions of leadership. Do the people you lead feel seen, heard, and valued? Now let's talk about your team. The best leaders don't just drive results. They create a culture where people feel valued. 37% of employees say recognition is the number one thing that drives them.

Starting point is 00:20:28 51% of employees who receive consistent recognition would highly recommend their company is a great place to work. And I don't just mean recognized. I mean truly seen. Jeff Bezos once said, Invention requires a willingness to be misunderstood for a long time. Amazon thrives because people feel safe to challenge ideas. But guess what? That doesn't happen unless leaders create a culture

Starting point is 00:20:54 where people feel seen, heard, and valued. But here's what happens when people feel invisible. They stop contributing. They stop speaking up. They start thinking, why bother? And that's how you lose your best people. Not because they dislike their job, but because they feel like their voice doesn't matter. And this leads me to Pixar, where Ed Catmull introduced a system called BrainTrust, a process

Starting point is 00:21:21 where junior animators and senior directors all had an equal voice. Why did Ed do this? Because at Pixar, everyone's ideas mattered. And that's why Pixar didn't just make movies, they made masterpieces. If you're serious about becoming a leader people want to work for, ask yourself this. Do your employees feel comfortable sharing their ideas with you? And then ask yourself, how often do you acknowledge their contributions? Not just results, but the effort behind the results. And then lastly, do your people feel heard? Because if they don't, they're already checking out. So let me give you a leadership challenge where you can practice this. At your next meeting, try this.

Starting point is 00:22:06 Instead of talking first, ask your team what do you think? And if their idea is great, then say so. Because sometimes the smallest acknowledgement is all it takes for someone to stay engaged. And this leads us to the third question for measuring your leadership impact. Does your workplace create a sense of ownership? Because mattering isn't just an individual experience, and this is so important to understand. It has to be built into the culture. But here's the thing, people don't just want a paycheck.

Starting point is 00:22:39 They don't just want a job title. They want to know their work is leading somewhere. Howard Schultz, the former CEO of Starbucks, understood this better than anyone. Starbucks wasn't just a coffee company. He built a community. He gave his baristas stock options. He called them partners, not employees. And what happened? Employee turnover dropped. Customer loyalty exploded. Starbucks became one of the most successful brands in history because when people feel like they matter, they show up differently.

Starting point is 00:23:10 So here's the question you need to ask yourself. Do your employees feel that kind of ownership? Because if they don't feel ownership, you're going to lose them. So here's a leadership challenge that you can implement. When I was at Dell, one of the metrics that we were fanatical about was net promoter score. And when it comes to employee engagement, there's something called employee net promoter score, which is a metric that measures how likely employees are to recommend their company to others. It's one of the strongest indicators

Starting point is 00:23:40 of whether people feel like they matter at work. The employee net promoter score survey asks one simple question. On a scale of zero to 10, how likely is it that your employees are gonna recommend your company's products and services to others? Some companies like to be more specific

Starting point is 00:23:56 and ask, would you recommend it to a friend's colleague or family member? If they answered nine to 10, they're a promoter. If they answered zero to six, then they're a detractor. Promoters are your most positive, motivated, and satisfied people. Detractors are people who won't recommend your business and are unhappy and disengaged. So if your employee net promoter score is low,

Starting point is 00:24:17 if you have a lot of detractors, it's time to stop optimizing for productivity and start optimizing for purpose. And then this leads to maybe the most important question, will the impact that you are creating outlive you? This is the final piece, and honestly, it's the one most leaders miss, because leadership isn't just about what happens

Starting point is 00:24:41 while you're in charge, it's about what remains after you're gone. And this leads me to a couple important statistics. Only 29% of employees feel satisfied with career growth opportunities. And 44% of employees say that they're very satisfied when their skills are being developed. If you're not developing people, you're losing them.

Starting point is 00:25:02 So let's turn this back to you. Are you mentoring and developing future leaders? Will the values you've instilled continue long after you leave? And finally, does your leadership extend beyond your company to your industry, community, or society? Because here's the reality.

Starting point is 00:25:21 People don't just want a paycheck. They don't just want a title. They want to grow. And that means if you want to be a leader, people remember. You need to be investing in them today. And this brings us to another leadership challenge. I want to ask you something really profound. If you left tomorrow, what would your team say about you?

Starting point is 00:25:41 If they were going to write it down, what would they remember about the way that you made them feel? And if the answer they're writing down isn't the one that you want to define your legacy, then it's time to change. Because if you don't define your leadership legacy, someone else will. So now I want to tell you a story about Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx. Blakely started with an idea, a prototype, and a mission. No fancy MBA, no venture capital, just what Angela Duckworth calls grit. But here's what set her apart.

Starting point is 00:26:16 She made sure every employee, from product development to warehouse workers, knew exactly why their work mattered. She personally called her first customers. She celebrated small wins, and she created a company where people didn't just work, they felt connected to something bigger. Because when people feel like they matter, they give everything. And what happened? Spanx became a billion dollar empire. Her employees were fiercely loyal, and she was the youngest self-made

Starting point is 00:26:45 female billionaire in history. Not because she had the best business plan, but because she understood if people feel like they matter, they will go all in. So this begs the question, how are you measuring up? We have been measuring leadership all wrong. We track numbers, we analyze performance, we optimize for efficiency. But the leaders who create real impact, the ones like Jay Skabinski, Satya Nadella, Howard Schultz, and Sarah Blakely, they're the ones who are remembered decades later. And they aren't the ones who just hit targets. They're the ones who saw people, who stretched them, who made them believe in themselves before they even believed in themselves. That's what leadership is about. And if you want to

Starting point is 00:27:35 be that kind of leader, start by asking yourself these four questions. Do I believe my work matters? Do my people feel valued? Am I building a culture of ownership? And will my impact outlive me? Because this is the real test of leadership. Not just what you achieve, but how deeply you make others feel that they matter. Now it's over to you. It's time to measure yourself and decide what kind of leader will you be. This brings us to the challenge of the week.

Starting point is 00:28:09 I'm going to challenge you to rate yourself on how you measure up on the lessons from today's podcast. Because here's the deal. If you're leading, you're already being measured, whether you realize it or not. So let's get real. I want you to go through these four questions and after you hear them I'm gonna ask you to score yourself. The first question is do you lead with purpose? The second question is do your people feel valued? The third question is does your culture

Starting point is 00:28:42 encourage ownership? And then the fourth question is, are you building leaders who outlast you? Now I'm gonna go through these questions one more time, and I want you to score yourself on a scale of one to 10. Do your people lead with purpose? Do your people feel valued? Does your culture encourage ownership? And are you building leaders who outlast you?

Starting point is 00:29:04 And then, as you evaluate your scores ask yourself Where do you need to grow because this isn't just a podcast? This is your wake-up call and if you're leading a team, it's time to step up Damn me on Instagram right now with one thing you're changing this week No excuses. no waiting. Do it now because people don't quit jobs, they quit leaders. And the real question is,

Starting point is 00:29:33 are you the type of leader they fight to stay for? And now I've given you this framework. It's yours to use. Think about the leaders who shaped you, the people who are like the J. Skabinski's in your life, the ones who changed your career, your confidence, maybe even your life. It wasn't just because they hit their KPIs.

Starting point is 00:29:55 It wasn't just because they got results. It was because they made you believe in yourself. It was because they saw something in you before you even saw it yourself. It was because they saw something in you before you even saw it yourself. It was because they made you matter. So here's the mic drop moment. Well, people say that about you because at the end of the day, mattering isn't a soft skill. It's your competitive edge. And the best part? You control it. You create it. You become it. Now go lead like you mean it. And that's a wrap on today's episode. But here's the thing. This can't just be something you listen to and move on from. The best

Starting point is 00:30:38 leaders, the ones who truly make a difference, aren't just about strategy or results. They're the ones who make people feel seen, valued, and capable of more than they've ever imagined. Now, go out there and lead like you mean it, and share this with other leaders and colleagues who need to hear it. Be the one who helps them take that first step to create a culture of mattering. And if you want to go deeper, I don't want to just talk about these ideas. I want to bring them into organizations, into teams,

Starting point is 00:31:10 inspiring leaders, inspiring organizations worldwide. If today's conversation hit home and you think your group could benefit, let's connect. Through keynotes, workshops, and events, I help ignite purpose, focus, and intentionality where it matters most. Head over to johnrmiles.com slash speaking to learn more. Coming up next on Passion Struck, next week I am sitting down with none other than Randy

Starting point is 00:31:35 Blight, the powerhouse lead singer of the band Lamb of God. We're talking about resilience, discipline, and what it takes to push through challenges most people would walk away from. And trust me, this conversation is going to hit hard in the best way possible. You won't want to miss it. Fear is a real M-Effer, a top-shelf grade A son of a bitch that will let you ruin your whole week if you let it run the show. That's a sentence in the book. In this world of so much information coming at us all the time, it's hard to filter out what we should be worried about and what we shouldn't. So here's the deal. You're not here just to consume content. You're here because you're investing in yourself. And that's what PassionStruck is all about. So take what you've learned today.

Starting point is 00:32:25 Apply it and keep showing up for yourself. Because no one else can do that for you. And remember, the fee for the show is simple. If you got value here, share it. Leave a five-star rating. Post it. Text it. Email it.

Starting point is 00:32:39 Get it into the hands of people who need it. Until next time, keep chasing the stuff that matters. Keep taking it.

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Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Why Mattering at Work Is the New Metric Leaders Must Track | EP 573

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