Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 1998 Week 13

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

The 2004 Patriots earned a first round bye in the playoffs, so we thought we'd take a bye week from the 2004 season to go back in time to 1998. Is Andy still salty that Dad took Greg to this game 24 years ago? Is Greg still a shit about it? Was Steve late showing up this week? Yes.Join the brothers as they go back to the pre-dynasty days of Drew Bledsoe and Pete Carroll as the Patriots play host to the Doug Flutie led Buffalo Bills in a game that was one for the memory books.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast, as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny. But really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Patriots' Dynasty podcast. The only podcast I would have to assume, where we are going back and rewatching every game of the Patriots' Dynasty, starting in 2001. We have finished the 2004 regular season. So if you want to listen to those, you can go back and listen to that. But since the Patriots have a bi-week, we thought we would

kind of take like we do traditionally our bi-week and do something a little bit different. So this time, Greg has convinced us to watch a random game that is important to him and really only him. That's not true. That's not true at all. In this family? A legendary game. No, it's important to dad. He was there, too. That might be. And it's our grapes. That's exactly important to me because I was first on the list to go to this game, but I was overruled by McBrown. And he brought Greg instead, and it turned out to be an instant

classic. So, Greg, what game are we talking about? 1998, week 13, Patriots vs. Bills, also known as the Terry Glenn, Hail Mary, Interference Game, Ben Coase, Touchdown, Vinniteria, Two Point Conversion Game. Spoiler. Yeah, that's the game. Yeah, all right. Well, I don't know if anyone calls it that, though. I feel like the name is generally a little shorter. What would you call it, Steve?

I don't know. I don't remember this game that much. I remember being sort of excited, but this was pretty young. Yeah, I remember being super fucking salty. I think it's a good at scale. Yeah, I'll bet Andy. There is definitely a reason why, though. I believe the reason why is because I had been to data taking me to a Red Sox game, and that was the last game that anybody had gone to. So.

Well, you're probably the first one to go to a Red Sox game, too. Well, yes, I went to Red Sox game before you guys were born. So, yes, that is correct. There you go. And Craig was the first to go to a Patriots game. Probably. This is this is your first game, right? Well, technically, I went to a Patriots game as an infant.

Oh, yeah, that's great. In the early 80s, when grandma or grandmother came over, mom's mom. And from what I understand, this was the time when the Patriots were an absolute shit show. And they, you know, early 80s. So it was all a bunch of controversy going around. I think there was something to do with one of the

like female reporters getting harassed in the locker room. Yes. And so the fans were passing around like blow up dolls, like inflatable sex dolls around the crowd like they do with beach balls. And so my parents decided that was a good idea to bring grandma to very religious woman from English. Very British. Yeah. And so I think

me and grandma ended up in the car in the parking lot. And grandma got to see a handful of people just peeing in between cars while the game was happening. Well, they brought not just grandma to that game. They also brought an infant. Right. Yeah, I was there as well. Apparently. So a nice family outing. But I think kind of says a lot about the fact that we're doing this podcast now, maybe.

It can't be worse than an English soccer game, which I'm sure grandma went to. That's actually a good point, Greg. Yeah, as I heard, way ruder and see way more gross stuff. And yeah, soccer game growing up. Yeah, it might be right. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely less violent. And like, you know, World War Two. Yeah. And also, I think the one thing that American sports is missing are the the chance. Oh, yeah.

Americans are not good at chanting. That whole section was in that Patriots dynasty book you sent me, Andy. The guy who did the tiger was one. I forget his name, something super generic. Jeff. Yes, it was. Jeff, I don't know. I'm so bad. Jeff Benedict. That book was sweet.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't, if you haven't read it yet, I recommend it. Although I had a hard time getting through the 2007 season part of it. Oh, yeah. But read it just like the opening is in there. The opening is about Drew Bloodsow and his injury. And it's it's a fascinating read, which is good context for this game because he has an injury in this game, too.

Correct. Yeah. So, Greg, tell us about what we got going on here in 1998. I've seen for a picture of the six and five Patriots versus seven and four bills. Yes. Coming down the. The playoff scenario stretch here. Correct. Pat's trying to make the playoffs. I guess they had a super dramatic win on Monday night, rolling into this game.

Yeah. Yeah. Does that game have a name? Yeah, I remember that the Drew Bloodsow finger game. Yeah. This was the game where Drew Bloodsow engineered a last minute come from behind touchdown drive. While in the middle of the drive, breaking his index finger in two places on the helmet of his somebody, I'm not quite sure who, and still managed to throw a game winning like 20 something

here, a touchdown right at the end of the game. Sean Jefferson. Yeah. Yes, I got a clip of it. Yeah. Well, we'll post the highlights of that. This whole game was on YouTube, right? This whole game was on YouTube. Did you watch it? I did. I watched it in two, two different YouTubes.

One was a little more stretched out. Yes, but it had the whole game and the one that was normal size didn't have the fourth quarter, which was actually that was. What was that? Idiots. Should we talk about some names because there's a whole shitload of throwback names? Can we just rattle them off here? Hang on. Hang on.

Before you do that, I just want to I just want to touch on a bit more of the context. This was when the AFC East still had the Colts in it. And so there are one, two, three, four, five teams in the AFC East. Four of them would make the playoffs this year. Patriots were the four seed in or six seed in the AFC at nine and seven. Bills were the fifth seed at 10 and six. Miami Dolphins, four seed, also 10 and six.

And the New York Jets, the second seed in the AFC at 12 and four. So this is like the last time the Jets were actually good. This is probably the last time the Jets. Yeah, because they have Curtis Martin, who's just running over everybody and just being an absolute beast for them. Correct. That is absolutely. They showed the highlights of the Jets game earlier the day during the broadcast and he has like 140 yards.

Yeah, has some sick runs or he just runs away from everybody. Yeah, that was Pete Curtis Martin in 1998. So I believe that was the year that he left, correct? Yes, it's got to be right around there. Yeah, it was. No, this was the year. This is the year after and then they drafted Robert Edwards, who also was having himself a year. This might be Pete Carroll's second last year, right?

Because it's Pete Carroll, the coach. Pete Carroll is the coach. I don't remember exactly when he left, but yes, we can go. Fact check it, bro. All right, Greg, give me some names. All right, Drew Bledsoe, Robert Edwards, Sean Jefferson, Terry Glenn, Ben Coates, Bruce Armstrong, Dave Wallabaugh. Oh, yeah. Chris Slade, a bunch of guys who've already heard of before.

Willie Clay, Chad Eaton, Bucky Jones, Chad Eaton and then the Bills, Doug Flutey, Antoine Smith, Sam Gash, Andre Reed, Eric Molds, Ted Washington, Bruce Smith, Sam Cowart. Thurman Thomas is on this team. Yeah. So this is like the sum of the remnants of those four Super Bowl Bills teams. Yeah. I thought it was crazy how many players in this game and also in a lot of the games like we're watching this year.

Really? I mean, I said that created even like even last year, 2003, Tyler Antoine, Bruce. Yeah, it's amazing how much overlap there is with Doug Flutey, played for the Pats, Sam Gash also played for the Pats. Ted Washington and Antoine Smith would go on to play for the Pats. Doug Flutey. Yeah, he'd come for the Pats. He actually was already on the Pats once, right? Yes, he had played for the Pats already.

They showed that clip of him with the sick flow. He had a fucking. Yeah, they actually they actually showed us that where Doug Flutey was undefeated at Foxborough Stadium coming into this game. Yes. He was three and oh at Boston College in 1983, two and oh Boston College in 84, four and oh with New England in 88 and one and oh in New England in 89. And this is undefeated 10 and oh 10 years. Oh, yeah. So 10 and oh.

So this would be his first loss in Foxborough Stadium. I mean, Doug Flutey is a shit. Everyone loves him. He's getting a damn respect. This game was very watchable because you were like rooting for Doug Flutey. A ton, even though he's the Bill's quarterback. Yeah, it's one of the things I can't be mad at him, even though he's he plays out of his mind on this game, too.

He does. Yeah. He throws like three hundred and forty yards, three hundred and fifty. Oh, yeah, this is yeah, this is week 13. And they said he's been sacked five times on the season. He's also 36. Yeah, yeah, he's not a spring chicken in this game. He's 36 years old, 36. Oh, that's right, because he spent all that time in the Canadian CFL.

Yeah. Yeah. He must have been lit in the CFL, right? Just running around people. I believe he was like there, Michael Vick. Yeah, for sure. He won the comeback player of the year this year. Yeah. No way. And then what was this the year that was just later on where

no, it must have been later on where they had the Brad Johnson stuff and like they kept trying to start next year with the the loss to Tennessee, the Music City Miracle. Oh, right. So this is the last time that bills are good, too. Yes, besides very recently. Yes. Yes. That's tough.

All right. So the other couple of names for you, the commentators, Vern Lundquist and Randy Cross. Did you hate them, Andy? Of course I did. But speaking of commentators, I would just like to share something for you boys that I think you might like. We have a birthday today. 1971, the St. Louis Cardinals drafted a fierce

two hundred ninety pound competitor named Dan Dierdorf. Dierdorf headed an offensive line that yielded the fewest sacks in the NFL for five straight years during the seventies. This relentless right tackle punished would be defenders, whether the Cardinals chose to run or pass. I always thought that I went through my years in the NFL like I had blinders on like I was a resource. I I saw nothing but the upcoming game and my upcoming opponent.

I really had the ability to rule everything else out and make it in consequential. Dierdorf would be denied only one Pro Bowl appearance from nineteen seventy four through nineteen eighty, securing his place in pro football history. So there you go. Hi, birthday to the legend who is Dan Dierdorf. Is he in the Pro Bowl or the Hall of Fame? No, I think we talked about he's in the Hall of Fame for broadcasting.

Right. Yeah. Hall of Fame. Yes, which is worse for Indians on your way. It's way worse. I guess he kept those blinders on all of these games that he's commanding. I love it. So, yeah. That was just for you boys. I knew you'd like that. That's such bullshit to keep the blinders on. I mean, great, dude.

He was there in some holes in that highlight clip, though. They were OK. I mean, he was blown. Seventies football. Oh, 70s football. Yeah, you know, let black people play back then, Steve. Jesus Christ. All right. Let's talk about this game then, Greg. Actually, I need to ask you this.

Did you watch the game? Parts of it. I watched the beginning and then the last life. Obviously, watch the game live. So no big deal. You guys probably had to watch on TV. That little fucking TV. The yard line. No big deal. So he didn't watch it.

Is it? Oh, no. He watched the highlights and the notes. I don't need to watch it again. Once you've seen it live. All right. Fine. What do you remember? What do you remember, actually, from this game? Yeah, from the high god, Andy, you should have this crowd.

If they keep TV doesn't do it justice, what it was like being there. They were loud. It was incredible. Fox bro, Fox bro. They got ready. The yard line. If I don't know where we got tickets from. But how far up are you? I don't know, like those way. Lower ball. Oh, no, shit.

So they're like really good seats for even have lower balls. But it was just really good seats. Yeah, I mean, dead. I think I sat in the same seats for the Cardinals game. My first Patriots game. Yeah, I mean, in those two thousand and what, eight, six, eight. Yeah, 2008. Yeah. It was like the Mac Hassel season.

Was it bad when a decade before taking me to a Patriots game? I mean, that feels about right, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Middle, middle son. Who cares? I took him to a Bruins game. That's fine. Well, you were you weren't as emotionally invested as I was. Those for sure. Yeah. You were your way into it.

I was that point. Yeah. Because I went to the game in 97. That's my first Bruins game. That's about the center. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. And Andy was a Red Sox son. Andy is a Red Sox son. I was a Bruins son. You were the Patriots son.

This is true. Yeah. Yeah, I got pulled out of dad told me fifth grade and took me to a Red Sox game. That's sweet. Taking you out of school. Yeah, like three, three seats, three rows up from like just behind home plate, like where the the netting is just outside the netting. I think you got him from a guy at work. I'm going to do that once a woman said, dad, this is the best day of my life.

And he still remembers that and brings it. I used to say that, too. I used to say this was the best day of my life. No, I was like, yeah, that's fine. I did write a book about it, though. I have a book I wrote about the trip to and I have it still. I still have a ticket. Hell, yeah.

The things you remember. So take your children to sporting events, even if they're the eighty three patriots and they're passing around. Yes. Blow up dolls. Yeah. Then your conservative British grandmother has to leave at the infant and go sit in the car while your parents finish the game

and has to watch people and just take pisses around around her tough life. Speaking of football. The game is sweet, though. I don't blame mom and dad for not leaving because this game was awesome. Yeah, well, yeah, this isn't the one. Oh, never mind. Yes, this game. It was kind of the peak drew blood, so I would say

this is where he kind of made his name as the Patriots savior at the time. Because he was that larger than life, playing with, I think, pins in his finger at this point, had a bandage up in the common days. We're talking about how he didn't even like keep his hand warm because it was getting colder in the game. Greg, how cold was it? Forty three degrees.

How cold did it feel? Mm hmm. Do you remember being cold? No. I was shitfaced drunk, though. You were like seven. You think it was a Denver game? I was drunk on love of the game, of course.

Yeah, I feel nothing could have made me cold. But yeah, so and like I said, last week he had on Monday night against the Dan Marino Dolphins, he had engineered a comeback with a broken finger. And Pete Carroll tried to call a time out and drew blood, so didn't even notice and he kept on going and threw the winning touchdown or ignored him. That's the big broadcast, which I really appreciated.

I hope you ignored him. So do I. If we ever have drew blood, so one will ask him if he ignored Pete Carroll on that play. Yeah, and threw a touchdown to Sean Jefferson, some great names. And then did not practice this entire week, they said, through some warmup passes just to see if he could in the pregame warmups.

And what did they say? Steve, do you remember what they said about it? About how they were watching it? No, I said they I heard they didn't take a snap all week, but not what they said. Yeah, but then they're like, oh, everybody was watching his pregame warmups like I don't even know what it was. Oh, yeah, yeah. They were some like awful analogy.

But it's good radio there, Andy. They broadcast it on Instagram. Everyone was very. I'm trying to set Steve up for like some interesting knowledge, but apparently he didn't fucking watch the game either. So I did watch the game. I watched most of it. I watched until that YouTube video ran out

and then I watched the last two drives where they'll score in the pitches scored. Yeah, if my first game, I had to watch Scott Zollack play. I probably wouldn't be here on this podcast right now. So I actually saw it. I went back and looked at the. At the Boston Globe for for the day before and the day after the game or the day of the day after the game. Sweet. And there was.

An article about like, is this Scott Zollack's time to shine? Because he's this was his contract year until his contract is going to run out the end of this year and maybe a free agent. And, you know, he's had like zero starts basically up until this. He's just played like mop up duty. And so, you know, is this his time to show that he can be a starting quarterback and go make some starting quarterback money in free agency? Spoiler alert. The answer was no.

It was not because of the shine. Correct. Well, he does become 30 years later when he's someone called him snorting lines on live radio. What? I did not hear about this. Oh, well, how long ago is this? They don't know what it is. Don't let it leave this bug. We'll be that out.

We'll be that out. True. And he only plays one more year after this. So maybe there's something to that. Yeah, I think Greg just cracked the case. But in true Drew Blatso fashion, his first pass of this game. Deep bomb floated to the the free safety picked up. Oh, yeah, it was like two on one.

He threw it to the one guy. Yeah, yeah, I can't agree with that. I mean, he's got a broken finger. You really can't it floated on him. And the second one probably should have been picked off, but that floated on him, too. So it ended up out of it. It took him a little while to find the touch,

but he found the touch. But when he did, yeah, game winner. Come on. Absolutely. So, yeah, this was a quality game. It's kind of started off a little slow. It was all bills early. And apparently these two teams have played two weeks before. And the bills basically just stomp the Patriots.

They rush for 213 yards or something ridiculous. Everybody's like, oh, they're going to do it again. There's Thurman Thomas and I don't know if he's a rookie, but a young Antoine Smith, like prime Antoine. He was awesome. Yeah. And he was he was your typical Antoine that you would expect that you probably remember from 2001. Exactly. He's the same guy except faster.

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, he was the one who was the kind of their short yardage back and at this point, they're using Thurman Thomas is like the third downback kind of guy. Thurman Thomas is like this is going to be one of his last seasons. Yeah. I think he goes one more season with the dolphins after this. This is last season with the bills and then he's done. I did not know Thurman Thomas played for the dolphins one year.

He did. Yes. Where else did Ben Coates play trivia? Oh, I don't know. And he won a Super Bowl with his team. What? The Broncos? No. Oh, the Ravens. The Ravens. Also, Sam Gash won a Super Bowl in that same team.

Oh, shit. No, shit. Good trivia. That is great trivia. I like that. Nicely done. Speaking of Ben Coates in this game, though, it's how many rings has Ben Coates have? He has just the one to one. Just the one with the Ravens. Wow.

Did the old Ray Bork spend a shit ton of time in New England and leave it immediately when a championship? Yeah. Hey, I'm sure everybody's happy for him at the time. Well deserved. Yeah, got to do it for sure. Speaking of Ben Coates, though, he had himself a game in this. Oh, yeah. Was, you know, pre-Gronk and he looked like it.

But the commentators were all about how much he pushed off. Yeah. Talking about how the defensive backs don't know if they need to like train in Taekwondo or lift weights or whatever to be able to cover Ben Coates, because all he does is run at defenders, hit them, bounce off and then turn around because he's open. Yeah, it was a take on tight end names.

OK, best best names in football now. I got a couple written down here before you answer. The single syllable sick last name. OK, Ben Coates. Jay Reemersma. That's the one I was going with. Rob Gronkowski, Pat Friarmooth, Gary, the barnyard dog, Barnage.

Who the fuck is that? OK, I'll play for Cleveland for like one good fantasy year. And everybody, I just love the name, the barnyard dog. That's really good, Barnage. Ron Rutledge. Yeah, dude. I was tell me there's your main Wiggins. I still I still think fullbacks have better names. Yes, strong Sam Gash.

Natron means Natron means went to the same college as Ben Coates. What college? A living stone college. All right. Living. Where is that? North Carolina. It's HBCU. All right. Where in North Carolina is it? Don't know.

Touching the North Carolina, Greg. Yeah, I never heard of it. I read it, but I didn't it was did not. I didn't even know living stone was a college here. I don't even know it still was a college here, to be honest. Well, it sounds like we need a stat check, then. He's from Hendersonville, though, which is. A pretty popular place.

I've been there. All are all are New England. Pages fans will know all about Henderson. North Carolina. Was that a Pages fans got fans everywhere. And you know how many Patriots fans are in North Carolina, Andy? Yeah, like seven. No. Dude, we have a bar.

Oh, my God. Who's the Patriots player that lives that they're all time, Greg? Yeah. Antoine Harris. Yeah. Yes. And a fellow legend. Oh, yeah. If he wants to come on the pod, we will definitely have Antoine Harris on the boat.

No, you just fucking slam North Carolina like that. You're from there. I'm slamming you, not North Carolina. Thank you, Andy. OK, that's great. Nature on means. Nature on means business. Nature on refried means.

That's a good one. That is good. And we prefer that over nature means business and all time. Bermanism. Yeah. Nature on refried. Also, I tried to look up the album for Sam Gash. Oh, no.

And and nothing out there. Oh, yeah. So are you? So when you come up with that, Greg, exactly, I need a list. Well, I know you have a list. Come up with a single thing. All right. Speaking of running backs,

let's talk a bit about Robert Edwards, because he was supposed to be and I think this specific year, 1998, he was the second coming of. Kurt Martin. Yeah, I had a 13 touchdowns. I thought I said that Robert Edwards was my original David Givens. Hmm. I can see that.

And then you cast him aside. I was trying to find the guys that everybody loved, but that were like up and coming. And those really are not both those guys. Yeah, that would have done it. Because he was good this year. He was OK in this game. But like if Robert Edwards had played in today's game,

he'd be really good, you know. He'd catch the ball. He could catch a ball. He's pretty shaky in the hole. He didn't have that like Antoine Smith type power. That's true. Which Curtis Martin sort of did. Yeah, the first round of traffic out of Georgia.

Yeah, he also started his career with a touchdown in six straight games. The first six games just go to rushing touchdown. Thirteen touchdowns for a rookie. He's no joke. No, you've got to work. He's a pro ball. He's clearly Pro Bowl because he went to the Pro Bowl.

Right. And that just didn't. He didn't go to the Pro Bowl. But how did he shed his knee? Yeah, it was like some fucking event like he was on the Pro Bowl roster. He just went to this fucking beach party Pro Bowl thing that they were doing. No shit.

Yeah, on the Pro Bowl. And that's how he shed his knee. Makes it even worse. He didn't make it. Makes it way worse. That's tough. That is tough. Do you want to hear what his injury was? I doubt it, but I don't know.

It was a gross of it. So there's also some interesting names. So the guy that threw in the ball was noted Dick had Charlie Batch. Just threw a fucking. So it's his fucking fault. Yeah, if he threw him a better ball, he probably doesn't. Yeah.

And Charles Woodson went up for it. It was like he got tangled up with Charles Woodson on a beach. Obviously, we all know the story. Yeah. Came down hyper extended his knee. He tore his ACL, his MCL and his PCL. And partially tore his LCL. What the fuck?

I didn't know there was any ligaments in there. Yeah, what is it? What are those? That's basically every limb, every limit in your knee. He had major nerve, nerve damage. And the worst part was that he sliced an artery in his knee. So they were talking about amputation. Yeah. Yeah.

So they said if the sutures hadn't held on the way to the hospital because they sutured it up, that they would have amputated and he never would have walked again. Holy fuck. Oh, we see him again in. Yeah, he comes back. Yeah, no, with the dolphins. I think it was like, oh, two, maybe. Dude, he came back three, played a couple of seasons

in the NFL, didn't really catch on, then went to Canada and two thousand yard seasons for real Argonauts. Fuck yeah, good for him. Yeah. Oh, my. That's exciting. Oh, I came back on the patch and then they immediately caught on. Well, you've got to give him another look. If going through that rehab, that's got to be an absolutely insane rehab.

So that was yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's going to be so painful. Like, oh. Well, in the book that he was talking about, they're talking about the Drew Bledsoe injury, it was he basically had blood in his lungs. Yeah. And so they may have like usually when things like this happen, you have to like cut open the peck muscle to go in and like kind of clean things up.

Or what maybe it wasn't in the lungs, it was like around the lung. So it was like collapsing the lung. And so what they tried to do is basically just like they put a tube in and pumped the blood out of his lungs and back into like where it was supposed to be. And basically, if that didn't work, they would have had to like cut in and like go get it. But then that would basically be the muscles that you use to throw football. And he never would have played again. Yeah. So he was like inches away from never playing football again.

That's not that book in open. Kyrie Irvin's taken like six to seven maintenance days a season. It's like, Jesus Christ. You just going to not get vaccinated. So it's a play after games. Yeah, he doesn't get to play games in Brooklyn anyway. That's why he's doing it. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, Drew Bledsoe got at this game out, though. Yeah. And that's like that was his no one ever said Drew Bledsoe is not tough. Like I was a tough motherfucker. He really was. He just took too many shots like Ben Rothesberger. Yeah, he was just one of those guys who. Yeah, he could.

He just I feel like his pocket awareness always let him down. That's a good point. And then he would try to do two. I mean, how many he took a couple of sack. He took four sacks in this game. And I'd say at least two, maybe three of them were preventable. We could have just thrown the ball away, but he's like waiting for something to happen, waiting for something to happen.

It takes a sack. Oh, come on, man. Their offensive line was great, besides Dave Wallabah. All time. All time New England name right there. Dave Wallabah. Have the offensive line. Let's take a look. Sounds like a strong.

Yeah, Bruce is. He's also on the. All the family. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was him versus Bruce Smith. I haven't. Yeah. They've been going at it for fucking decades. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Damian Denson, who I believe was starting his first ever game at left guard, Dave Wallabah, Todd Rucci and Max Lane. You remember Max Lane? Yeah, also a great name for an offensive lineman, Max Lane. No, you don't want to run behind a guy's Max Lane. No, you want pass rush against guy who's Max Lane. Exactly. Right to the quarterback. Yeah, you want to run behind that maximum Lane.

But Drew Bledsoe in this game, 28 of 43, two, 46, three touchdowns, one pick, four, six, not too shabby. They played by Doug Fluke, though. How many rushing yards did Robert Davids have? Because it was pretty much on drew, I feel like. 13 carries 40 yards. Yeah. Yeah, it's all true. They had Sam Adams, who's an absolutely massive.

Ted Washington. That was right. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, even if I'm strong, though, versus Bruce Smith. Yeah, because this is the peak of their battles. Is it? Yeah. Bruce Armstrong made the Pro Bowl in ninety ninety one, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven.

I'm currently in ninety eight. Bruce Smith. His fucking career is insanity. He made the Pro Bowl in eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty nine, ninety two, ninety three, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven. Ninety eight. And first team all pro in eighty seven, eighty eight, ninety three, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven. Yeah, Bruce Smith was.

Our says this is on the back side, the back nine of their careers, though. Like not both of really like coming in, they're about to go into their back nine, but they both have made the Pro Bowl the last four years. Yeah. For both. Bruce Smith from eighty six to ninety eight, there was one year where he didn't top double digit sacks all time, leading sack later. Two hundred sacks.

He wasn't that big in this game, though, right? No, he didn't do a lot. Bruce Armstrong. Yeah, he got he got one half a sack. Our Bruce got him on this one. Yeah. In 1990, he had nineteen sacks, nineteen. He had an even two hundred for his career. You to put it in reference of like a play, a modern day player that you'd recognize the white Freny at one hundred twenty six and a half.

Oh, yeah. So two hundred experts. A fucking ridiculous number. Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah, the bills always had good players. I mean, their receivers in this game are so good. You know, they had so many awesome names in their receiver. It was like Andre Reed's two hundredth catch.

Some shit like that. Some like that. No, two hundred and twenty games for Andre Reed. Oh, yeah. And he had Eric Moulton, your other side, who was being covered by Ty Law and on the first play of the game, Ty Law went over and dapped him up. And we saw him kind of like shake hands before the first play. Just kind of, you know, he had that.

Absolutely sick catch. Yeah. Oh, that was. That was an amazing ground. Yeah, it was touched down. Yeah, the 85 yard touchdown, where he kind of one hand snagged it between Ty Law and the safety. Yes. And I ran the other safety for an 85 yard touchdown.

But he caught it like it wasn't like the tip of the ball hit his palm. It was like the flat part of the ball hit his palm. He just kind of like grabs it like a bunch of bananas and then just runs. Just snagged it. And then he's just gone. Just outruns everybody. Ty Law's bust and ass can't catch him. Yeah, which I mean, Ty Law, this is, I think, Greg Peek, Ty Law as well.

Oh, yeah. Ty Law is absolutely seven picks coming into this game already. It's week 13. Yeah. So you got to pick every other game. Did not add on this one. Their D-Lomb is kind of nobody's a linebackers. They had some names. Secondary had two Hall of Famers.

Yeah. And then no names. Steve Israel. I don't remember him at all. I don't remember that guy. He was all over this broadcast. Oh, you remember him, dude? He's the guy that was from Jerusalem.

Yes, Greg. Oh, oh, yeah. Now that you say that, there's also Mike Lombardi in the halftime show. Oh, yeah, that he is. I think he's come full circle and is back in the media, but he was on the Patriots front office. He was a Patriots general manager or something along those lines.

Yeah, he was very good. High up in the Patriots front office. Yeah, he was kind of crazy to see him on the halftime of a 1998 show. I know, yeah. And the halftime show was way better because they actually showed highlights, you know, they went game by game and showed some highlights from the important ones. Oh, we didn't have Kisha and Johnson just running his mouth for fucking 35 minutes.

It's not even 35 minutes. It's like 35 seconds. They go right back to commercial. Yeah, just making up what he's going to say on the spot. Yeah, oh, yeah. That sounds about right. One of the other big notes in this, I don't know if you guys noticed was there was a huge push to bring back replay.

Yes. So I looked that up real quick and apparently like instant replay had been around for a long time. But it was disbanded in 1991 because the technology basically couldn't keep up with it. It wasn't great. So there seemed to be a lot of push. And Steve, going back to your point of like, they actually showed replays at halftime, the highlights, rather the highlights, a lot of them revolved around. Here's a play that would have been overturned if there was replay,

but it wasn't and it affected the game in this way. So it worked out in the Patriots' favor, I would say, in this game, because the Patriots on their game winning drive had a borderline completion to Sean Jefferson. Greg, was he in? The borderline went even close. Question. The problem is, you can't tell it's such crappy video quality.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. With the with the feed that I had, I'm like, I'm going to look at this. I'm going to I'm going to bring it to Greg and be like, hey, look, you can tell that this pixel, his foot is in bounds. But you couldn't tell because both feet were one pixel. So I'm not actually sure.

But there was such an uproar that I assume it looked pretty clear to me that he didn't have his feet in. Of course, it's because you're a pessimist. Yeah. And you hate the Patriots for some reason. I said, I couldn't tell. Maybe you guys should get your eyesight checked because it seemed pretty obvious to me. Not that. Well, you were sitting at the 50 yard line.

We're watching it in fucking YouTube. That's four years later. The whole stands were a chatter about it. I bet that. I could see it from my seat, dude. So, yeah, in some replay, we were brought back in 1999, the season after this, probably because of, I think, all the focus on all the plays

that would have been overturned if there was replay. Jokes on them. Just go watch that Saints NFC championship game. Yeah, doesn't fucking matter. Right. Oh, if this play had gone differently, maybe the game would have gone differently. We've come full circle again. Actually, there was instant replay, though,

and they still didn't even look at it. Yeah. Yeah. That was fucking crazy. That was tough. So let's talk about this fourth quarter, because this is like if you're going to watch the game or you're not going to watch highlights, just watch the end of the like the fourth quarter.

Yeah, 10 minutes left. Yeah, bills marched down basically from the start of the fourth quarter onwards, marched down on a let's see, 14 plays, 67 yard touchdown drive, helped out by two, three defensive penalties, a couple of passing appearances that were a little ticky tech. And a sweet Doug Flutey scramble.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. On third down to like a reach and stretch and just barely make the line on like a third and nine after they had like 25 and nine and a quarter. He's the man. You can't not love stretching all five foot six of him out to get that first down. Yeah. Yeah.

So and the touchdown pass to who is it to Andre Reed, the diving catch at the back of the end. So it was super nice. Yeah, it's a nice play. Pages get the ball back and miss a field goal out of an interior miss field goal. So if Conor you're listening, that's your boy. To be fair, why are they going for field goal down four points?

That's, you know, Pete Carroll. But the pages managed to hold the bills to punting at the two minute warning. So the page gets the ball back with, I think, a minute fifty two left after the punt and drive 10 plays 82 yards with the play that we just mentioned, the questionable fourth down conversion. Where Sean Jefferson. I'm going to say gets both feet down because I'm a Patriots fan

and leaning out of bounds catches the ball for the first down. That was a fourth down. That was fourth down. Yeah, I didn't realize with a running clock with a running clock that Ben Coats had caught the third down. Even though he missed, they caught the third down, got tackled in bounds. Yeah. And they had no time out so they had to run set and then run the play real quick. Yeah. And just barely converted it. And then I don't know if his next play couple plays later.

No, there's four seconds left after that. That's right. Yeah. So it was exactly the next place. They had one shot at the end zone through the end zone, and there was a pass and appearance call in the end zone on Terry Glenn, whoever the defender was, doesn't matter. He he Terry Glenn had a good look at it, and the dude got pushed right in the back.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was you think it was even on even on the crap fucking video. Yeah, I think I think it was a blatant pass and variance, but you never call that. It doesn't matter. Come on. If you don't think it was a pass and appearance. No, anything was on a Hail Mary, dude. Dude, he got a Hail Mary from the 20 yard line. It's a 20 yard pass.

Dude, look at the look at the. Yeah, there's a shit load of people there. It's a lot of there's a lot of traffic there, but it's not like a fucking absolute bomb from midfield where it's in the air forever. It's a jump ball. He was a no blood. So fucking zing that thing. And it was right to Terry Glenn and he got put right in the lower back

and just fucking and he bent out. I love that Steve's coming to my side. He used to be like that's definitely. Taking sides. You don't want to do that fucking play the ball. He didn't play the ball. He pushed the receiver right in the back and the judge was right there at the end zone line, because that's where the play was, because that's where he's got to see.

And he sees the guy just get pushed right in the back. Of course. Yeah, right there. You want to hear a quote from Ty Law himself? OK, if I was them, I'd be ticked off too. You never see that that call on a Hail Mary, which it was. I know where they're coming from. These officials are making way too many calls. It's getting worse and worse every week.

Ty Law, he's on the Patriots and he's completely agree. That's imagine that in this day and age. Imagine the social media firestorm with that kind of comment. Twitter would melt down. Well, Belchek A would never allow that. That's a carol kind of comment. You know, yeah. The good point, the rules are probably different back then as well.

Where they you saw in this game, just rewatching it. How much they're glorifying hits and stuff. It's just like a little out of date there. Yeah, there was a lot more hitting in the defensive backfield just generally. Yeah, but they were still like, I think even on the the bill, such on drive, there's still some like, you really going to call that? Like this late in the game, you're going to throw the flag bear. I think they had been calling it tight on the bill's drive.

So yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a passing appearance on it. Hail Mary, though, outside of this. I feel like I get some sense of Hail Mary. And I've seen some like, pretty egregious, like tackling the players on Hail Mary's. Well, they go through the ball and they tackle Gronk's. Yeah, exactly. That was one. That one's pretty. That one's like egregious.

The one where they tackle Gronk in the Super Bowl. Yeah. And I like, I wasn't even that mad about that. So I was like, it's fucking Hail Mary as we get, you know, how far was I feel like it wasn't Hail Mary, though. It was like 30 yards. 30 yards, not that long. Yeah, but Steve, it's a jump ball, right? It's a throw it up and everybody jumps to try and catch it.

Well, every ball blood, so throws is a jump ball. It's true. We just cannot call a passing appearance. Bro, got a broken finger, of course. He actually slung this one in there. He was slinging it. Either way, blood. So yeah, came back and in the next way. You can talk all you want. And this is the same goes to like listening to chief fans talk about.

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, if you he didn't lie, if what's his face didn't line up off size and that games over. It was like, yeah, well, the game, like the page didn't win it on that play. Like you can still make the stops. You can still like make the stops in the in overtime. So the bills have one play. They all they had to do was start a page for one play with this vaunted defense with, you know, Bruce Smith and all those

all the players on it. Well, they did stop. There's no other players. And then there was a flag thrown so they had stopped for another play. Then you go one. But like Belichick says, Greg, you got to play every single play. Just like, you know, the same thing came to bite us in the ass. And we put Gronk out there on the skip kit coverage in Miami

or turned it for a touchdown. So you got to play every single play in the game. Steve is absolutely correct. I don't know how these officials are allowed to make those calls. What do you mean? They get paid to fill out a quote. Imagine that. Wade Phillips on the coach, Wade Phillips doesn't understand.

Well, let's let's talk about that because the Patriots throw it's a bank that touched on a bank coats back in the end zone. Great throw by play. Yeah, absolutely. Action. I mean, let's sort of coats. It's a classic. They let's go back foot though. Yeah.

With a rusher at his feet, tosses it over the over the into the corner of the end zone, touched on bank coats. With a fucking broken finger, too. But what a touch pass. So it's bills, twenty one Patriots, twenty three games over. No time left. The bills just walk off the field. There's still an extra point left to do.

And the bills like now we're not coming back out. So fuck it. So the patients line up to kick the the field goal. But the crowd starts chanting to like go for two, go for two. And so they snap it directly out of inventory who walks into the end zone for the two point conversion. Are you starting that, Greg? I started that.

Of course, good job. Patriots, twenty five Buffalo, twenty one game. Question. Now, the Patriots and and bills are tied at seven and five. Couple games back of Miami and the Jets. What about nowadays? Did they make you still kick the extra point? I feel like it's game over when it's quite touchdown.

They do because remember the playoff game between the Saints and the Vikings? No, they don't make you kick it. They did. They made them come back out. And so they just like the the Saints just sent out whoever the fuck like still was partially dressed. And there's like stood there and they kicked the extra point.

They don't they don't make you can do it anymore. I feel like overtime, right? But no, it literally happened. Now, there's like a rule of like there's something to do with, like if there's if it doesn't change the outcome of the game, you don't have to do it. But like there's games where it's like one second left or something that day. I find that hard to believe only because of the money in betting.

I think that's why they change it. Greg's right. Having to kick a useless extra point is way harder for Vegas. Yeah, they'd rather just win outright, you know. Yeah, I mean, apparently this game was a three and a half point spread for the Patriots, too, which is strange. Really? That's a favor by one and a half.

No, I see. I've heard I've found conflicting reports on this. Did you? I found yes, two different sources that said it was a Patriots were favored by three and a half, and that this was part of the reason that they brought back review was because. All these betters were all pissed off because they lost money on this game. Interesting. Well, I don't think it would have mattered either way, right?

It was one and a half or three and a half. Yeah. No, because the two point conversion is what changed it. If they kicked the field ball, they would have won by three. But well, I think the touchdown, regardless, if it's one and a half, the Pat's now covered because they won. Right. If it's one and a half, it doesn't matter. But if it has a favor by three and a half, then you also got to think that nineteen ninety eight Vegas lines are probably not as well set as, you know,

two thousand twenty two Vegas lines and maybe a lot more data out there for them to analyze. That's fair. That's true. You make a good point. All right. You got anything else you want to do best and worst? Sure. All right, Greg, you go first. Give me a best and worst. My best was just enjoying the crowd being there in person. You know, you can't really put a price on that.

It's a memory that I'll hold forever in my life that you guys won't hold in your lives. Well, I already went to the Bruins game. So I had no case. Yeah, it's like all the Red Sox 98 in my life, you know, my worst is Sam Gash. He's a little baby. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I bet you wouldn't say that to his face. See, Sam Gash. Come on down here.

He's still kick your ass. Am I ticked off? You bleeping bet. I'm ticked off for that official to behave like that. That's just ex plus expletive. They cost us the game. What it comes down to is we had something stolen from us and we're ticked off. Apparently, he was a big baby about getting cut by the Pats, too. Really?

Like he like dedicated the rest of his career is like making the Patriots regret cutting him or some shit. I was in the Patriots. That sounds like something that five years. That sounds like something that element would do, you know, just like or or even like a NFL, dude. Even like Rodney Harrison, that's something he would do. You know, anything to get up for a game.

I think that's very, it's very runny. Yeah, let's feel very right. So all right, Steve, best and worst. You go, Andy, I'm still figuring out one. All right, my best was that they announced that the special team coach in this game, who the special teams, actually, I thought did quite a good job. Dante Skarnakia. And so, yeah.

And my worst outside of Greg getting to go this game instead of me, which is some bullshit, was your typical Pete Carroll lack of. Not focus. Well, that's what I'm looking for lack of discipline, I guess. On the last drive, the fourth quarter, the bills had on defense. They had like, they had to call a timeout one, they had to burn a timeout because they had 13 12 men on the field, plus two running off when the snap is about to happen. And then like three plays later, there's a flag for 12 men on the field again.

Yeah. And on top of like a couple of passing of fairings and couple of just like bullshit, like penalties right down the end. It was just like, I can see where the page didn't keep them. This is the type of coach that would fucking throw it from the two yard line with Marshall Lynch, right? He's going to be a whole thing, coach. Do you think?

Ah, with the college. Yeah. And see how. Yeah. You put him right next to Dandy, it would be fine. And the failures wing of the hall of fame. Steve Carell is going to go into broad. Pete Carell is going to go into broadcasting. Just do him and Andy garbage.

He's going to be a great broadcaster. You're going to be awful. You're going to hear it going through the entire fucking time. He is my my worst is actually Patriots special teams, Andy. We'll go fuck yourself then. There was that absolute dime punt hit by Tom Tupa. They have bounced like three times in between the goal line and the one yard line. And then they downed it.

And then the guy who's downing it had his foot in the end zone. Actually, they showed the replay. The reason they call a touchback is the ball literally bounced on the goal line and then came out. That's why it was this bullshit. So it was actually almost the perfect pun missed it by six inches. Tom Tupa, BT Dubbs, punting. Yes, he had. That was a great pun. What else he had?

There was a two play sequence here. All right. It was Robert Edwards trying to go over the pile. Not really his strength and getting immediately the ball popped out. And then the ball falls into a 1998 goal line pile. You know, oh, yeah. And like, that was just an absolute. It took like four and a half minutes to untangle who had the ball.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like. I don't even commentators are like, well, whoever had the ball first, definitely doesn't have it anymore. Yeah. And they're like, well, look at the referee trying to pull it out. He lost it. They didn't even know who had it. So or they did. I missed it. They did eventually.

Yeah. But it took a while. Whoever that was props, because that was an old school fumble pile. Yeah. And then the next play was that Robert Edwards touchdown pass, because they're like, well, we ain't going to run it in with Robert Edwards. So trying. It was actually really nice. It's like a night. It's like a recent play design, you know? It was a world.

Have been code set a little screen for the linebacker trying to cover him and then run him right across the goal line and then zip it right to him. That was pretty cool. It was awesome. Cool. All right. Well, that'll do it for 1998. Thanks for taking the trip back in time with us, except for Greg. Even further back in time.

Yeah. So next week, next episode, whenever that is, might not be next week. Will be. We'll be back to 2004 in the AFC divisional game. Who are they playing, Greg? I thought we were doing our special edition Roe v. Wade episode next week. Now, we're talking playoffs. More important things to talk about 2004. The divisional playoff game. Now, we're talking playoffs.

Indianapolis Colts coming to Gillette Stadium. Oh, the Colts. Yeah, the red hot record setting. Indianapolis Colts. So I believe this was their season where they had three wide receivers all with over a thousand receiving yards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard that in Manning's record breaking year. Right, right. We've been hearing about it all year about it.

Spare me. OK. I've heard all that before. Well, you'll hear it all again next time. On the Patriots. They did deja vu. See you next week, dude. Hey, Lada.