Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2005 AFC Divisional: Patriots at Broncos

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

In this episode of the Patriots Dynasty Podcast, the gang takes a deep dive into the pain of the Patriots' first playoff loss of the dynasty era. The first is always the hardest, especially when an incredible feat of athleticism is overruled by an unprepared referee (IT WAS A TOUCHBACK). See how the boys managed the first setback of the Dynasty era, and how they're managing it now. We want to know what you think of our podcast (no, seriously!): http://bit.ly/patriotsdynastypodcast-surveySupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast, as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Patriots Dynasty podcast. My name is your host, Annie Brown, and this is the only podcast. This is the only podcast. as it goes through every single Patriots game of the Dynasty era and we do an episode on each one regardless of how hard

it is to watch or what the outcome is. With me this week we have Steve Brown this week the better brother right Steve? The best of the better brothers. Yeah you actually showed up. I show up every weekend. I always show up. I always

watch the games. Well only because you're unemployed. I still don't have a job, yeah. How long do you say it's been? since the end of February, right? And we are now almost halfway through July, so good for you. I mean, I spent all day watching this game. It was great. A tough life.

Must be nice. And also we have newly engaged Tim Turin. Congratulations, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And condolences to your better half. Now stuck with you.

And if you're anything like us, condolences are definitely in order. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. She's a scene. They should start a support for all of our They probably should.

They should have a podcast about how awful it is to live with us and have to deal with us doing this podcast. Oh, God. I bet it would be what's going to be for dinner

when I'm done here today. It would be like, hey, what's for dinner? Much better planned, I bet, than our podcast for sure. Oh, yeah.

It'll be much more professional. Yeah, we'll come out at like at a consistent time, consistent day. wouldn't be like six months without an episode. The dedicated listeners to this pod are our mother. Maybe your mother?

Definitely my mom. But we don't treat them. We've got to treat them better. We've got to be more consistent. They need this. I'm going to learn for a treat with this episode. Tell you what, we got no Greg, which is always a plot. We have a Patriots plot.

Off loss, always not a plus. Yeah. In fact, this is the first Patriots playoff loss we have done on this podcast. So far, they have won the last 10 playoff games they have been in. How many episodes are we into this game, into this thing? Oh, boy, over 100. Over 100. That's pretty nice.

It's actually funny that you say that because it was a neighbor outside and I was telling him about this. It was like, oh, what are you up to him? Like, you know, doing the pot or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, so I don't know exactly when we end it. I was like, I think once Brady leaves, it's over. And then Kayla's like, look, oh, this isn't going to end soon or anything. No.

I think it'll end before that, only because, yeah, we will not live that long. It's going to be like another 100 episodes at least, I think. I don't know how many Brady played as a Patriot. I think we started off and it was, I think it was 300 something games okay and we were doing one a week

so it was gonna take like three or four years and it's already been that and we were originally you had a couple different episodes too right right yeah yeah we've done like all these episodes

and yeah did interview episodes and then didn't you do a random Browns game too we did well we did the the Browns on Browns yeah we did the Cam Newton erotica

the book review that's fine yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah incognito text one

yeah yeah yeah yeah we've done a few and so I think you have the kiss reality TV show about them

owning a football team yeah yeah the arena league football team yeah yeah oh and then we did a couple

ones on the Patriots uh yeah yeah yeah yeah we haven't even finish that

yeah right soon to come out so remaining episodes in that, right? I don't know. Whatever.

We didn't finish, but I think we finished, if you know what I mean. Because I realized I have spent a long time trying to watch this game, and I made it through the first half. And I think my therapist

would say that I am discovering some deep-rooted, unfinished feelings about this game. It was really hard for me to actually sit down and watch it at all. Because it, brought back a whole lot of feelings. It did not feel very great.

I don't know if you boys felt the same or not, yeah. Did you have any problem watching this, Steve? Not really since I already knew how it was going to go. Yeah, so did I. I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, this was not the worst. I feel like this was just the beginning of all of the frustrations in Denver in the playoffs. I mean, yeah.

This was just like, I feel like the later losses are worse than this one. This is like, eh, 30-3. Eh, whatever, you know. it was tough because it was tough because it showed Brady was like human right like he made a big mistake in a big part of the game and like if you're going to leave it up until the refs you already lost right so yeah um I don't know I mean I mean that that interception to Chan Bailey rewatching this wasn't quite as meaningful as I remember it being was that just because

you knew the outcome, though. Well, like, the kickoff return fumble and Troy Brown muffing the pun, like, those were more backbreaking. And Kevin Falk with a fumble, too, on their first actual, like, drive that they put together. So, like, Brady had his mistake. We only kind of had one. They had five turnovers. I'm not giving them that second, that last interception, because that was everybody. But it's all your, like, core guys, right?

Yeah. Like, all your, like, typical patriots, Brady throws an interception. Kevin Fogg fumbles the ball Troy Brown fumbles a punt Like just unheard of things And then I'm thinking like This is like the last Because I don't know

Was Branch traded in the middle of the season next year? No it was during the offseason I'm pretty sure Off season for a first round pick And then Givens left leaves them free agency after this right So that's what I'm thinking In the back of my mind I'm like

This is like Yeah and I'm like Belichick like you didn't see enough here Like it was just like a couple if you guys are tightened up on the special teams unit then you probably have a better shot at it you know what i mean if you take away those two turnovers if you maybe put three points off off of it or something like that um i don't know why you wouldn't run it back like i don't know how much i can't i don't know how much uh givens ended up signing for but i mean those money if i remember it was it was one of those deals i was like ah all right but it's like those were the when you think about it Those two receivers are like, when you look at like Belichick's drafted wide receivers, like they're top five, right?

Yeah, I see, sir. The other one's what, Edelman? Yeah. Like in your top three of like receiver receivers? Yeah. So, I mean, if he had kept with that evaluation or those wide receiver scouts, maybe, you know, we would have had a better history there. But like, man, like I just love David Given so much.

And Dion Branch, like in that, in this game. like electric dude like yeah yeah you can't forget about don't you just how good he was one million eight million guaranteed that this is forgiven's yeah with the titans and then uh he tore his ACL in week 10 yeah which caused him to miss a 2007 season and then he never played again ate that oh shit given sued the Titans for 25 million claiming that his ACL tear was due to the Titans doctors failing to adequately test his knee but the lawsuit was dismissed in 2010.

Wow. God damn. Hey, shit. At least he got that payday. Well, that's probably why he fucking didn't really have much longer of a career. He probably cut a complaint and they blackballed him. Yeah, maybe. But I mean, that $8 million guaranteed.

He's getting that at least. That's a fair bit of guaranteed money for that contract, especially back then. That's right. Good point. Good for David Givens. I always loved him. Yeah. I had to give his jersey back in the day.

that's true we wore something these days steve and then uh how'd you guys feel about jake plumber in this game like i thought he looked electric and then come the fourth quarter like you know they do the qb comparison i'm like this guy's throw for under 200 yards i'd be like tearing us the fuck up i mean he the best part about jake plumber was his fucking flow yeah dude he was awesome man his hair was awesome But he does not I mean the whole The Broncos as a whole

Did not play well No Their offense stock The defense on the Patriots Was really good Yeah Which is made even more Yeah

But they lost like this Right Especially with like all the The injuries they've had to overcome And like how many different starters They've had on defense And like just grinding it out And finding a way to make the playoffs

And then for it to like Completely fall apart Just based on how many turns they say It was five turnovers yeah and like the field positioning that they start with defensively not great so right but they still like kept them in the game even at asante samuel pick and it's just like 190 yards passing for plumber in a pick yeah yeah they ran for 96 yards on 32 carries like the run defense is really good too but they got just like one yard fields yeah yeah i mean their first touch on came

off it was the kevin falk fumble like inside two minutes pages the first drive they put together and then Jake Plummer goes for the deep shot and it's a a passive interference that even the commentators couldn't believe was called. Yeah. He was pretty upset. He's like, you'll be reading about this in the paper tomorrow. I'm like, oh, Philip. Super middle of the road never called out. Exactly. Yeah. And he was right. It was saw. It was actually like, if anything, it was probably offensive passive passive pass interference is what he pointed out. Yeah. And so I put the ball in the goal line. They just fucking walked it in from there.

It's like, well, that's bullshit. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a, I don't know, it was a tough game. It was tougher than I expected it to be. Well, you didn't even finish it, Andy, so. Right, that's what I mean. The worst part of the whole game. You didn't, you actually didn't finish it?

I did not finish it. I couldn't. Wow. Come on, Andy. The worst part of the whole game is not Tom Brady throwing that interception, Champ Bailey in the end zone. What's your opinion? Let's do, are we doing best and worse already?

I mean, Troy Brown. The fumbling that, muffing that punt. Yes. Inside his own 20. Like, he never did. And then it cuts the Belichick. He's just whipping his piece of paper on the ground. Like, Troy Brown is fumbling.

You know what shit's going bad. Yeah, it's just not going to be your day, basically. Yeah. To be fair, it wasn't all Troy Brown's fault. Let's speak, you know. No, I mean, it's a culmination of all those turnovers. Well, they tried to do like a punt block on it. And so he was playing the gunner.

And then he had to run back to. catch the punt. So he wasn't like sitting back there waiting for it in the air. Yeah, I had watched that like two weeks ago, so I don't really remember. And I fell asleep. Oh, yeah. Actually, that's where I fell asleep. I fell asleep for about 10 minutes

while watching it. And they had said one of the graphics came up where it said there's been two turnovers in the last 59 seconds, and I was like, yeah, I definitely fell asleep for a little bit because I don't remember seeing either of those turnovers. Those are like the word turnovers.

too. That's what the little ones are with the back bramps. Yeah. Well, I'm glad I thought I thought for that because I just skipped right over that wasn't as bad for me. So that's what you should have done the end. You should have took a 10-minute nap and what was that in the third quarter, right? In the middle of the third? Yeah. Yeah, you should have done that, buddy.

Couldn't do it. One of the kickoff or turner getting stripped of the ball by fucking Todd Sauerbrun. Oh, God. Wow. Yeah, you're watching the punter. Strip the guy of the Hollis Hobbs. Oh, Hobbs, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's backbreaking, yeah. Yeah. Backbreaking. And even with that, they lose 2713 final score. So it's not even like they got blown out either. No. Which is wild. It's kind of similar to that, what was it, the AFC championship against Peyton?

Oh, yeah. They won. It's kind of somewhere. And they missed a field goal Yeah, like the whole thing is just Like this, it Like the final score felt like it should have been Worse bigger, yeah

Right Yeah It's just everything that could have gone wrong Did go wrong Yeah Like the page figured out how to drive the ball down I feel like in the first half First quarter

And a half The page couldn't move the ball At all the Bronco Like both defense were just stifling But all of a sudden The pages started moving the ball But they just kept turning it over And turning it over

And turning it over And turning it over yeah it was interesting because the broncos were blitzed them like crazy like zero blitz or like a three-man rush and they're just alternating between the two yeah eventually it doesn't work I mean it's killing Brady at the beginning because no one can block but then he figures it out and he starts throwing like little dump-offs the guys who are faking blocking and stuff

so they have what um they have Al Wilson I remember him I felt like he was a monster in this game obviously they got champ Bailey John Lynch yeah um yeah this defense is stacked it is a good defense who's on that uh defensive line uh the j the williams dj and someone we're in trevor price dj williams yeah oh trevor price is still there wow yeah yeah he's a beast right yeah yeah that's a pretty that's a pretty oh yeah can't forget about him yeah that's a pretty it's a pretty good defense that's

at least the top half of the league defense. Oh, for sure. Yeah, and this is the height of... No, yeah, their defense was... Right. John Lynch's powers, too. Like, those two guys are elite. Yeah, their defense was third in the league

in points against in 15th and yards. Wow. Fourth in turnovers. Like, just... Yeah, because you've got some big... How is there a rushing offense, Andy? The rushing offense was... um second in the league in attempt second in yards third and touchdowns fourth in yards for attempt

they're averaging 4.7 yards a carry they were like trying to run at a ton they were getting nothing out of it well that that was their thing is jake plumber was their like weak link there their passing offense was their weakness on this team but they could run the ball because i'm yeah and i'm thinking like it's kind of similar to that t-boat team that they had too like i'm just i like to just you know draw those parallels like it's just someone that's not that great but like as a gamer, like Jake Plummer, I was always afraid of him, and I always liked watching him, too, because he had a little scat to his game, you know? Sure did.

If I scat, you mean shit. Yeah, he does eat fungi, so. Yeah, but there are two top guys where Mike Anderson was the main guy. He ran for over 1,000 yards in the season and 12 touchdowns. And then Tadem Bell was their number two, who also ran for 921, yards and eight touchdowns. Then he went to Detroit and never did anything, I think, after that. Right.

And then Ron Dane was still number three. Oh, Dane. Who would, like, come only, I guess, and was like, the last couple games had been tearing up. Yeah, they always had, like, a three-headed monster for, like, a six-year stretch after Trell Davis was gone, and they were just always successful. Yeah, they could just plug anybody in there. I think Mike Anderson was the guy. Let's not forget about the great important.

Yeah, Clinton Portis were legit. Let's not think of Clinton Portis for Jan Bailey's law. Remember that? Yep, yep. The straight-up player for player trade. Right, yeah. That was never happens. That was the year prior to it.

Right, yeah, exactly. And this is the first of Chan Bailey's back-to-back defensive player of the year. Wow. It was this year, next year. Okay, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, so this was just like the running offense

and then they had, of course, Rod Smith. Yeah. Also, he had 1100 yards. Yeah, you still run of us loads.

I haven't looked at but Phil Sims in this set he he anoints Rod Smith as a future Hall of Famer.

Oh, damn. Does he make it? I don't think he's in the Hall of Famer yet. There's no should be. Right?

You think he should? Yeah. I mean, he puts up good stats. It wouldn't surprise me. Let's see he had 12 years. He had 12 years.

He was a little champ too, right? 11,000 receiving yards, 68 touchdowns. They basically averaged uh, jeez, he averaged

over a thousand yards a season and six touchdowns a season. That's wild. For how many years? 12. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's good. Pretty good. That's not been. That's not been. I mean, as the number one

receiver for two, uh, Super Bowl ones. We put it in Ed McCaffrey too. Well, I got, yeah. I don't know. I have to look at the stats. I mean, at this point, he should be in if he's going to get in, right? That's a good question. Yeah.

I mean, he's probably got to get in on a special committees. Yeah, there's all sorts of other guys, similar stats. Yeah. Two all pros, three pro bowls, like. We're talking Rod? Yeah. Yeah. How many Pro Bowls?

Three. Three? Yeah. But he had two all pros? This year. Yeah. 2000, 2001. That's kind of crazy.

2000, 2001? I mean, think about the wide receivers you have in the league. That's pretty good. I mean, let the NFL and receptions in 2001. So, oh, he's all, he was the undrafted guy, too, right? Yeah.

He's an all-time leading receiver among undrafted players in the NFL. Right, right, yeah. And he was undrafted. Yeah. So they, so on this offense, they got who, they have him. Right now they have Will A, right?

Actually, the Lilly or whatever. Yep. And then, he's the, I mean, Ashley Lalee, it's the, um, did you know he was from Hawaii? You know, it's Patrick, it's from Harvard. Jesus. I actually don't think they mention it in this game. I was waiting for it.

I was like, he comes up a fair bit. And I was like, all right, now's the time. That's the time. Nope. I think we could put, um, their tight end in the all-time name team. If Greg was here, I'm sure. Something with the. Jeb puts here.

Oh, yeah, yeah Don't they have another one too? Something with a D Wesley Duke Dwayne Carswell I don't see anything I have no idea Are you sure you watch this game 10?

Did you watch my game Tim? I did but I fell asleep And remember I watched the first quarter Three weeks before And I didn't go back Because I watched the wrong game So I've just been I really have mailed it in

I apologize to everyone who has any expectations of me. I'm an adopted Brown. You know? Jesus. It's brutal. Well, at least Steve has kind of like taken my spot up. He's dedicated himself way harder than ever before. This is true.

This podcast is my full-time job now. Jesus Christ. That's not good, Steve. what do you mean i'm crushing it did you not listen to that episode that i led the podcast andy i did it oh man i haven't listened to it again because absolutely not yeah the stomach charter so i had also forgotten the fact that um these two teams played earlier in the season too in mile high and the patient i sort of remembered it with all the blitzing that they did well they didn't do blitzing they didn't blitz that much last time well john they were

just getting they just got through the line yeah they was saying that they had just um they had started that like what they call they called the pump block blitz i think where it was basically like you said see if like cover zero they send to everybody um but they had started the week after they played the patriots and then had like kind of refined it to this point but it seemed like kind of a similar game um i feel like i remember john lynch all over that game though because he was they were like all out blitzing but he was all over that game yeah he was always coming in on a free rush somehow um yeah yeah yeah four Passed defended, no sacks or anything, but I'm sure he had some QB hits, which they didn't track back then. But yeah, I felt like the same sort of thing. And they actually showed a stat in that first half where it was about what happened last time in the second quarter of that week six game. And the stat difference was fucking wild. I don't even remember this at all. But basically, in the second quarter, the Broncos scored 21 points.

on 247 total yards with three plays of over 50 yards and Jake the Snake had a perfect pass rating. The Patriots had 78 total yards and zero points in that quarter. And it was the most yards gained in a single quarter

in the NFL that season. The Broncos putting up 21 points in the second quarter against a pass. I must not watch it. I think I vaguely remember that game. I think it was very similar to how this one ended. It was, I think it was one of the ones, because week six was kind of around the time of like the beginning of like trying to figure out what to do after Rodney.

Yeah, because Rodney was what, four, five or no, week three. Yeah, it was early and it was still like, yeah, and they were pulling like street free agents and just like couldn't figure the fuck out. And our linebackers were learning that defense still like on the fly. We still didn't have Brucey back right. Bruceky back right yeah yeah so yeah so that they we are just running with a fucking it's got off yeah well they yeah uh that was that that was another thing they showed was um all the people who are playing in this game that weren't in the last game oh and it was Troy brown teddy bruskey Corey dillon Kevin Falker Richard Seymour because that's when they

didn't have any running backs either mm-hmm I may have been a Mike cloud right right right actually that could have been yeah or Heath Evans maybe was that was that only Heath Evans games oh yeah yeah don't remember but it was we had a few of those there was all yeah there's a lot of that going around um but they also showed um tom brady's um you know splits uh home and away and it was wild see the difference because you know he's it's pages of home kind of unbeatable but away like they're still usually pretty good um but in 2005 tom brady at home 17 touchdowns two picks on the road 12 touchdowns 12 interceptions wow like a completely different quarterback yeah and I feel like I like this was still a time when Brady was

maybe it's just the page's offense or whatever was trying to figure out how to call their offense in a loud place like they struggle in this game too like there was so many false starts especially on those like all-out blitzes it was like thing I'm two or three times in the first half false starts on those and on one of on Brady still got lit up. Like, they blew the play dead, but nobody could hear it because the crowd was so loud. And I think it was, I don't remember which

defensive lineman it was, but just, like, free shot of Tom Brady from the shotgun. He just, like, laid into him and put him on his back. And that kind of sucked. Yeah. Tom Brady took a lot of shots in this game. Yeah. And it was a, like, even in the last game,

he's like, I haven't hurt that much after a football game, like, since I've been in the NFL in the first Broncos game. And I'm guessing this is probably worse. Yeah. It's a lot, probably a lot older. In all three first drives, both sides. First two pages

drives and the first Pongas, so it was loud of shit there. It was, yeah. Yeah, it was, I mean, they kind of figured it out eventually. I'm a little surprised that I think the best offense that they probably ever had was the 2012 offense,

just with the speed at which they could get to the line and call a play. I was reading about this for something else that I was doing. but with the two tight ends that they had with Gronk and he who shall not be named and then also you had Vareen as you're running back who could also play wide receiver

and so they could go two tight ends or they could go five wide with the same personnel and just run to the line and that was the time when you was seeing that from Chip Kelly too I think he was starting to bring his show to the NFL, remember that

with that like super speed offense yeah with Kevin Cobb or whatever Where we believe you in college? Oregon. And before they was actually at UNH. Yeah. Or no, wait, who was the yellow one? Nick, uh, Nick, uh, Nick Foles, right?

Nick Foles for the 70s, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Chip Kelly was a coach, though. I think, I think it might have been, yeah. It's that time frame anyway. But, yes, and that, that just like high-speed offense was unguardable that year. Mm-hmm. I'm almost surprised they didn't roll that out more often.

like just the hurry up offense when the crowd's so loud and just like run some simple plays because that puts your defense in a base defense because you can't like really call anything dramatic on the fly when you don't know what's going on. And, you know, so they do figure it out eventually. But this was definitely that time where they're still trying to figure out

how to play offense in a really loud place. Yeah. Well, this is Josh McDaniel's first season, call in plays, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's not technically the offense coordinator, but he's the offense coordinator.

Right. Yeah. This is a learning experience. Probably going to pay like 50 grand. 12-blet-fire, you will. Probably true. We'll see what he does here,

but there's this 20 years later. Right. Back at it. He's kind of crazy thing about. He's going to be our office coordinator, literally 20 years later. That is wild, yeah. It really is.

Jesus Christ. All good things. You excited about this season, Tim? you don't want to see what digs can do the special sauce uh over under seven and a half wins tim put her put it down uh man under oh damn all right i'm honestly i'm not that confident in drake may i just feel like uh i don't know i don't know if he's going to be able to to pick it up like interesting complicated offense you know I'd rather aim low. I'd just rather aim low than be surprised and be wrong. I'd rather that than have high hopes and then be disappointed.

God, he's just like Greg. I'd rather not be happy to begin with. I'd rather just be miserable and then be proven wrong. I just, I don't know. I just, I don't know, man. There's something about him. What's the point in sports if you're not going to believe, Tim? What the fuck's the point of sports? Fly watch. I don't know. I think I've just been hurt too many times. It's been Brady for like 20 years.

Exactly. Yeah, but there's other heartbreaks. Like, you guys don't really focus on other sports. There are other heartbreaks that a sports fan in Boston experiences. Oh, the Celtics winning a championship? Yeah. Well, the Bruins winning a championship? Well, the Red Sox in a couple championships?

Yeah, I mean, we have one, but there are also dramatic, tough losses that come with that. Like, we ride the waves, and we don't forget. All right. Well, I just want to make sure everyone's aware that we're looking. Never forget Bill Buckner. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't alive for that. But a can-do positive attitude, not this kind of mopey under seven-and-a-hwin's bullshit.

God. Yeah, where do you got one of those? We already got a brother who doesn't. Well, I'm trying to even the stakes, you know what I mean, Mr. positivity over there. That's what we need. Well, hey. Were there any moments of genius from Bill Belichick in this game?

Not really. Not really. Come on, Steve. Light in the fucking mode. All right. Well, his ability to adapt to the pressure of the Broncos, I thought was really good. Fair. And that was play calling, maybe a little bit of Josh.

But we touched on earlier. of all right, if that's what you're going to do is just all-blitz, then I'm just going to throw a million short screens. Yeah. Which was... Which was... Which was...

The Patriots, like, bread and butter. Mm-hmm. Like, 2003, anyway. They would have them fake block. And then release, and you could see the defenders be like, oh, shit. Nobody behind it. They were getting 20-30-yard completions every time,

and Ray just run back as fast as he couldn't just try to lob it over the line. Yeah, I definitely remember one of those, the Daniel Graham. Yep. Yeah. And once I started doing that, then the Broncos was like, oh, I mean, the biggest struggled at the beginning, but they figured it out. Yeah.

But then they didn't. Well, they just kept fucking turn the ball over it. They didn't figure out how to hold on to the ball. That was the one thing we needed. Yeah. Yeah, three, fours one passing for 20 total. Yeah, it's crazy. And then you think you see Jake Plummer, it's nothing.

It's because he had nowhere. He's like, already. There, he's in the red zone. Yeah, you start, yeah, on the other side of midfield every time. Yeah. Like, sometimes that really is the game. I mean, shorter field, you know, easier way to score points. Right, exactly.

Have you tried not getting stripped by the fucking punter? Right. Fucking Todd Sauerbun, dude. Are you kidding me? That's bad. Yeah. Just, it's so bad. Yeah.

for some reason I was surprised when I saw Jason Elam I was like for some reason I thought he was already gone at that point Right yeah I was like what No Eelm played forever Because he could kick it as far as he wanted

In Denver because Well they Yeah but he didn't do kickoffs Which I thought was weird Sauerbund did the cutoff Probably because he's old yeah Oh true Just say him

But they were saying that like Eelam was In the pregame warmness Was kicking him from 60 and like they were clearing the bar easily Wow Like he could get it from friends So like he still has it Because you know you can kick 60 yard field goals in Denver

I mean same with like I think Who I think it's Koskowski has the longest Patriots field goal In Pat's history and he did it down in Mexico City When they play the Raiders down there Yeah

2017 when the fuck it was Because same thing They actually the Patriots actually practice in Denver to get ready for that game because the climate was about the same. So, yeah, I don't know what it is about that. The air is thinner, is that? Mm-hmm.

What's the, what's the... How does that work, Steve? Tell me, why is the air thinner up there? There's less air resistance since you're higher up. Why, but why is there less air resistance higher up than it is further down? But why, that's what I'm saying. Why is the air thinner higher up?

Grab it. Just like there's no air in space, Andy. In between here and space, there's various degrees. of air. Densings making shit up. What's the ozone layer for? I thought the ozone layer is one.

He's saying makes a lot of sense to me. So I'm going to say he's right. You can, like, hit a golf ball a lot further in Colorado than you can in South Carolina. No, I understand. I understand that part of it, but I just understand the Y.

Because the air is density. Yeah, but why is the way less dense. Because of the altitude, the height at which you are. He pulls the air down to the earth. You think air isn't affected by gravity, Andy? Well, why is it hot air rise then? Because it's excited.

I knew we get there eventually, thanks, Steve. And now we know. There's more space in between the air molecules. Yeah, there is. You think that would make it harder, not lighter. You'd be a fucking book, Andy. Oh, says Steve. What's the last picture book you read, Steve?

picture book I guess that's redundant isn't it he reads the gosh sometimes I'm sure that's no all he reads is

picture books nice Andy good one I heard the Troy Brown book there was no pictures in that except for

there were pictures of that yeah in the middle of the book yeah those are good pictures they are Troy Brown baby

watermelon's off the truck all right let's do best for worse huh well my best is Steve explaining air and how that works. Yeah, we'll go with that. You didn't even know that in higher altitudes, balls go further.

Like, who doesn't know that? I'm literally the one that brought that up. You don't even, how do you know, like, no shit. He can hit at 60 yards because he's a mile high. It's a mile high stadium. Right. That's what I said. That's how that conversation started.

Also, in the brewers who have a high field, you know. I thought it was a rocky field. too. No, the Rockies. Whatever. You know what I'm saying? Burrists don't have a... No, yeah, then we're talking Milwaukee and... The known height of Milwaukee.

No one wants to pitch there because why does so many homeruns get hit in the Yankee Stadium? Because they have a short... High elevation. That's right. Nothing to do with elevation, Steve. No one wants to pitch there either because fuck the Yankees.

In Colorado, put that thing a mile high. see you later it is they're both in colorado i don't say the yankee stadium is not a mile high oh yeah you say well you didn't say yanky stadium oh my god this is this is my worst

Steve make up your goddamn mind you are a terrible teacher I hope you never have to teach me all of this is just the worst my worst is the Kevin Falk fumble it was the first turnover in I think like 500 something game minutes for the Patriots they hadn't turned the ball over in ages

and then they did that and it opened the fucking floodgates to four more turnovers for the rest of this game. Within two minutes as well. Yeah, two minutes of the first half. Patriots were leading, what, 3-0 at that point? They were up 3-0, and they were driving. Yeah, their first actual drive that they put together and making it look easy, too.

Someone met him killer. Because they hadn't moved the ball. I don't think they had a first down yet, and then they got the goal-line stop on the Broncos on 4th and 1. Right, yeah. And then the ensuing play, Braves was like, you know what, fuck this. and just launches a pass

the fuck was it it was Andre Davis yes Andre Davis yes yeah over Trambelly for like 50 some odd yards yeah wild yeah I think you had a couple decent like clutch catches on this game that's a name that like he was only he was here for like parts of 04 I think and then most of the season or he became

I think when we had a rash of injuries he came back or something like that. It's kind of impressive throughout the season and be like, oh shit, you know. Yeah. He was, I mean, he was no Tim Dwight and he was no Troy Brown or David Givens or Deon Branch.

But, like, he was good, you know. But to be the, like, seventh option. Yeah, this was a... What was your best, Andy? I told you, my best was you explaining air pressure to us. Oh, so nothing air density. There was nothing good in this game that I saw.

Fine. You guess he didn't watch the second half. All right. Give me your best, Steve. David Givens getting a touchdown for a seventh in a row. Yeah. That's true. His last one,

though. That's how he got that $8,000 signing bonus. Yeah, I forgot about that. It's his last one, Steve. Does he ever catch a touchdown again? To be fair, his streak is still active. Well, uh, that's how that works. You know, he's never played in a playoff game and not caught a touchdown.

That's his last touchdown. Yeah, but he could. could come back. No, I'm saying, last ever. He doesn't catch him on a touchdown in his career. He catches no touchdowns in 2006 with the Titans. Oh, man. What a go, dude.

Eight catches 104 yards, and that's it in 2006. So, uh, well. Plus, whatever, we got paid that first year, probably $10 million. Only started five games. Eight catches on 20 targets, too. That's a lot of targets for eight catches. They did not use him right.

sounds like yeah i didn't even mean didn't really use them at all uh let's see my worst was the broncos play calling on that on and one to go right before the brady bomb oh yeah it was like from the one yard line bird and goal a quick sneak from jake the snake yeah he lost a yard on a cubies knee lost like two yards it was bad then they go fade route yeah to lily and it wasn't even fucking close. Oh, and also they had, yeah, on a team that had 2,000 yard rushers basically. Yeah, like their whole thing. Had a mobile quarterback.

And that was a, yeah. It's not up there with the Marshawn Lynch sort of thing, but like, I don't know. If you got one yard to go and two downs go get it, maybe you should try running the ball. Yeah, maybe bread and butter. Yeah, maybe take the ball out of Jake Plummers' hands. Yeah. You know, I would agree. That's them.

they even call the time out before the fade route. They did, just to throw that. Yeah, it wasn't even close. What's our play call here, guys? We need one yard to get in a big, big situation. Oh, I do have a best. That just reminded me. Asante Samuel, that interception that he had was fucking dope, yeah.

He had some great plays, for the most part. And we've been a bit critical of him because I think he's been overstating his qualifications, perhaps, just because he gets a lot of interceptions. So we were kind of calling out all the times he got burnt, which was quite a few in this season. But he played a hell of a game in this game. And that interception with the toe tap. They call that no interception.

Right. Oh, yeah. That pass interference was against him, and that was. It was. Yeah. That was, he was looking rough on the sidelines. See, like, everybody's going over to, like, console him, like all the defense.

Like, well, I get it, but like, it's just a call. That's fine. Yeah, but it's a playoff game, you know? Get him next time, sorry. At that point, it was 7 to 3. Well, that's what they're saying. You'll get him next to the time. Like, they've got to say that.

But he looked like a broken man. It's the second quarter, but you'll be right. Well, look at how he argues on Twitter, you know? I mean, it's true, yeah. The signs of a broken man, he still hasn't gone over, clearly. He hasn't gotten over something, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, I did see an exchange with him in Dion.

and like deion was like giving him some some pretty good props so i was like all right you know if deion's saying it i'll take that as gospel i mean he was good i just don't think he was as good as he thinks he was yeah i don't know i mean i think when you look at his stats like i i base a lot off of like who you get your interceptions off of and i think he picked off some like pretty good quarterback so i mean for his era like i think he's kind of under or rated. There's a lot of good names, I think, in there. And I think he kind of goes unrecognizing that, but, like, I don't know, just how he presents himself. I don't know. It's just like, yeah, I just feel like you're just doing way too much. But, I mean, if that's your legacy, I get that, stand on your, stand on your work. Yeah, I think that's fine. Yeah, he had some good seasons. I'm not going to, I'm not going to say. They did get burnt a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it was, especially the season, too. Right. Yeah. and it's not like he was a tackler or anything like because we went from Thai law

Lassante Samuel and Thai law was a complete package not getting burnt still getting the picks but also come up and make a tackle Lassante wasn't really known for that so he's being compared to like if you're talking about like tiers of cornerback like Thai law is a tier one

and Asante probably like what at best like a tier three I would give him a tier two Like he was Here too, okay Yeah he's putting up numbers In interceptions Yeah

Well yeah That's true yeah In 45 in just nine years Yeah That's a lot For sure I think you're too All right

Yeah well I just Like the one interception That would have made a fucking Real difference What I meant though Is like that year That's the play he's known for In 2005 though

Is what I kind of saying Like, because you're that drop off from Thai law to Asante in 2005, I think, is at least like a tier three. That's fair. Yeah. Because he plays, he starts 15 games, gets three picks. Yeah. So, I mean. But then he gets 10.

That's his like top year. But you have to think about it too, like how we view cornerbacks now. It's like if you're getting a lot of interceptions, it means that you're getting targeted. And I think that in this 2005, he was getting targeted. targeted a lot and getting burned. So, I mean, that's kind of tough. I definitely got better as, you know, he's able to get to interceptions the next season. Right.

But, yeah. Yeah, no, yeah, I don't disagree with that. I think he was good, but not great. Yeah. Like, I never have thought of him as, like, a true number one defensive back, right? Like, he's not a guy that when, that your team is playing, whatever defense he's on that you're like you've got to watch out

for Asante Samuel. Yeah, we're going to stay away from his side of the field and he's just like like you could do with a tie law or you can do with Dorelel Revis. Yeah, or stuff on Gilmore. Champ Bailey, like that kind of thing. Yeah, he wasn't that good, but he was definitely

good. He was definitely a number one corner. Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah, but he never felt like that premier number on quarter that you had to avoid. You know what I mean? Like when you're talking top five or top 10 like he's a name that like someone might say because he's on your team and then you're like oh shit you know what yeah you're actually right that's why i would say i don't think he's overrated i think he's you know underrated and underappreciated but um i don't know he he's someone that got tested a lot and you know he passed a test he would he'd make the interceptions yeah you know

what i mean and he was good at return uh you know interceptions for touchdowns so yeah Yeah. But yeah, so my best was, I'm going to say, I'll go with Dion Branch, just because I love Dion Branch. And my worst, oh, actually, no, also my best was you were talking about the fourth down. The way that Phil Sims is breaking down, how badly Jake Plummer takes. to sneak was also crazy. You've got to get your legs ready and you've got to push forward. You've got to take a step back first and then you've got to push because if you just take the snap and fall forward, you're not going to get any momentum.

And you're just going to get pushback, which is exactly what happened. He lost two yards and said again the first day. Jesus, Phil. I was like, this guy is going in on Jake Plummer right now and I don't think it's that fair, but whatever, whatever, you know, I did love that. Yeah, I was here for it.

Jake Plummer looks like if Keanu Reeves played quarterback in the NFL. Yeah, dude. That's just the vibe I got. Yeah. Just like him in the replacements. He lives on a boat. He's just like, he had a great college career.

He doesn't really go to fuck about the NFL. He walks away. He doesn't care. Nicknay too. Sick nickname. Yeah. Jake the snake. Yeah, Jake the snake?

Come on. Jake Plummer or Jay Collar? Jake Plummer. For sure. Yeah. Because it's just a big. Jake Plummer gave a shit. Yeah.

Yeah, Jake is way more chill. Yeah, Jake, it's a dick hole. Yeah, but Cutt was sick, dude. Like, smoking cigarettes on the fucking, you know, on the bench. Like, that's a true gunslinger. Like, you know what I mean? It's tough. That's the epitome of give zero fucks.

Yeah. He legitimately gave no fucks. Like, when they'd line him up out wide on Wildcat plays, he just fucking stand there. But you wouldn't even intend to do anything. Like, Jake Culler is, Jake Culler is one of those guys that, like, you, uh, when you would go out drinking, like, he was cool to kind of like have around.

And then a couple years out of it, you guys lose touch. And then like, you see him and you're like, it was good for the time that we were friends, but he's like kind of a scumbag piece of shit. Glad I outgrew that friendship. And then Jake the Snake is like, that. Yeah.

And Jake the Snake's like the guy that is, you know, he kind of. is against the grain, you know, takes the path that, you know, less walked or whatever that saying is. And you're still cool with him, but like, you know, every time you see him, he's high on mushrooms. And it's just like, yeah, that's, he's a good dude to talk to, yeah. Yeah, that's just Jake, but like,

because you'll, you know, get into it with Jake. You've got the best nickname to. Oh, yeah. Jake, this is a great nickname. I mean, I thought it goes to hefty-lefty, but, you know, it's top tier, for sure. yeah um yeah i don't know if i have a worst i guess the worst would just be um the fact that they didn't call that a touchback yeah yeah there we go yeah like we didn't really touch on that at all but yeah

it clearly we can tell that's still like a tough subject because clearly a touch bit we just like skirted over that we talked about it was is this the reason why belichick lobbies to have the pylon cameras installed has to be right it's got to be up there There was one specific player. He talks about the bake sale. Remind me? When they were talking about, he wanted to get them pay for him. He was like, oh, you know, maybe, you know, maybe the NFL could hold a bake sale to raise money for it.

Yeah, I forgot about that controversy. Here we go, here we go. We just spent whatever it was, how many millions of dollars on the replay system, Belichick said. I mean, there's a thousand cameras in every stadium so that if somebody spills a beer on somebody, we have it on record, right? maybe we're going to have a bake sale raise some money for the cameras do a car wash that like that just is that was 2014 yeah that's quintessential belichick that's him in his bag it would have been a very helpful camera angle oh for sure because there's no good camera angle to look at it there's no it definitely it definitely was a touchback like if this play had happened

There's no way. It would have been so much better because you would have been able to see. You couldn't see. You really had no. No, you could. It was a fucking draw lines of a whole damn ball landed. Oh, yeah, that was hilarious. He's like, yeah, you wouldn't need geometry in real life.

Like, I was like, these guys are hammered right now. Like, this is fucking. They did have that feel. Yeah, they were definitely dramatic for sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. Hey, see where the ball lands. draw line from there.

Like, what? What the fuck are you talking about? I wonder if we could figure that out with math. If we could, some priority has. It wouldn't be me. I bet someone's trying to figure it out. Yeah, that would be great.

If that happened now, I bet somebody would solve that with math. Like, they would figure out the angles and just, like, plug it in and, like, show you all the fucking work. We need that. It'd be some random fucking Redditor. Well, just at Grock.

and see what happens just put a video up and then see if they can do it do you mean mecha hiller yeah um oh seems like it's going really well did you hear about the uh controversy that's been going around about the uh all-time like patriot uh tears no oh yeah i guess it's been a you know my sports radio listening that oh god that was something that came up what was it I think Logan Mankins was like Tier 2 And Dan Copen was a tier 3 Okay

So there's a lot with like The offensive line men I haven't looked at it myself But yeah I guess Tom Brady's in a tier of his own Of course Well obviously But yeah

I don't know I didn't look into it I probably should have brought it up Bro, you should probably just stop listening to Sports Talk Radio. Especially with it. Greg will engage you. Yeah, I'm sure he knows exactly what you're talking about.

Oh, yeah. And then this and this happened. Fuck, Greg. What loser. Yeah, why? He couldn't make the pod because he hasn't packed yet for England?

I don't know. Yeah. I thought that's what he said. Driving up to well, Kelly flew off. to New England Greg's driving through the night with the car but it's packed for camping because we're going

to England coming back and then immediately going camping after that. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. Sounds crazy. Yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

That feels unnecessary but all right. Good for them. You do you? I'm happy to just podcast. That's cool. Yeah. all right well speaking of

which what's next week week one trick question motherfuckers yeah that's right it is it is week one of the 2006 season

how will the Patriots respond to their first ever playoff loss of the dynasty era I'm sure we'll do some sort of off season recap or whatnot

but tough way to end the season 2005 the 2006 log dude there will be another one it will be interesting to see because I have put a lot of that 2006 pre

2007 out of my mind I think kind of similar to this game yeah we'll sit somewhat to the season for the Patriots this is the last season I think so yeah well I think 05 and 06 generally like both of them combined guy I didn't remember a lot of this 05 season either

other than Teddy Bruske coming back from the hole in his heart yeah about it and the fact that that Fummel was a touchback. Right. Those like my two memories of this season. 2006? Just the Chargers game.

Caldwell? Yeah. The Chargers game, they called well and his eyes. Yeah, dude, Rochay. RIP. Yeah. It's kind of what I remember from this season. Troy Brown remembers this season very favorably, though.

Oh, yeah. 2006? Yes. Interesting. Didn't love 2005, but he liked 2006. We will find out more. next week on the Patriots Dynasty podcast. See ya.

See ya.