Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2006 Week 2: Patriots at Jets

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

In this episode the brothers tackle a 2006 Patriots‑Jets game that feels like a forgotten chapter of the Belichick‑Mangini saga, with special guest Matt Chatham offering a front‑row seat to his time on both sides of the rivalry. They riff on the oddities of moving from a winning culture to a rebuilding Jets franchise, and even touch on the infamous “spy‑gate” memories that still haunt them. Amid the banter, they admit their own lack of game‑changing moments and laugh at how even a simple kickoff can feel like a high‑stakes drama.We want to know what you think of our podcast (no, seriously!): http://bit.ly/patriotsdynastypodcast-surveySupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

All right, welcome back to the Patriots Dynasty podcast. The only podcast that is rewatching every game of the Patriots Dynasty era. And even the games that nobody remembers, even sometimes the people who play in them. This week we have the beginning of the Mangini Belichick rivalry, I guess you could call it. That might not even be strong enough. Blood feud. Yeah, there's all sorts of things you can call it at this point. With me today, you heard Steve Brown.

Nice to see you. How you doing? Oh, I'm doing great. This is a real milestone for us. Yes, I think so. We also have Tim Turn. Tim the intern. How you doing, bud? Doing great. I'd be here. Nice. As usual, Greg is too busy reliving his childhood dreams or something playing men's open soccer three days a week. So he's not able to join us again. So we decided to bring in somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. So this week we have a special guest, our first ever recurring guest. Matt Chatham. Matt, thanks for joining. Thanks for having me again. See, Andy, I told you we're not the worst podcast. Someone came back. Have you noticed our mother hasn't come back yet, though? Yeah, yeah. We interviewed her a long time ago, and she will not come back on.

She actually told me recently she stopped listening. Oh, no. Oh, no. That's tough. That's probably my fault. Sorry, guys. As soon as Tim joined, she's like, I'm out. So let's touch on this game a little bit before we kind of jump into things. This is 2006 Week 2. Patriots heading to the Meadowlands when I believe still called Giant Stadium at this point, which is tough luck for the Jets who also play there.

The Patriots are facing that Jets team, and they have had a lot of turnover in the off season. A new GM, new head coach, and a whole new roster. head coach is somebody you probably have heard of, Eric Mangini, the former defensive coordinator, right? He ended up at the defensive coordinator position before moving over. Long time, he was kind of a Belichick find back in the day as a ballboy for the Cleveland Browns, I believe the story went, and Belichick loved his work ethics. It kind of brought him in, and he worked his way up and ended up under Belichick in a few different spots, and then went off on his own to the Jets.

also somebody went with him is the aforementioned Matt Chatham who in this offseason would go over to the Jets so I guess for me since we have Matt here I kind of want to get the just kind of the differences between those two like not just the coaches but like the organizations and like was there a difference like a huge difference that you noted in each place that you played in So off the top, I'm going to absolutely answer your question, but I want to mention that one of Coach Belichick's big things, this is one of his big sort of from the mount kind of suggestion, was that you never, this is more when you're playing, obviously, you never take a comparison question among places you've been and places you now are.

That makes sense. And sort of the, it was always sort of the trap thing where he's like, His old line was that, like, you can't win. Whatever you say, you think you're complimenting the last place, but if you make any contrasts at the other, and you color it a little bit better or difference, or anything in your voice it might indicate that you think that that place is doing something,

the other place wasn't doing. And next thing you know, you pissed on someone else. This used to be, it's always hilarious to me, obviously in post-career, you know, all of that's over, but it's hilarious than whenever it's like, compare to those last two places, and like every free agent that's ever left New England or come to New England has been given the speech.

Never compare. It must have been so hard for Randy Moss in 2007. Well, imagine the stories, like on both sides. And, you know, when you're leaving or when you're coming, of course, a lot of people, when they show up in New England, the first thing I want to say is, my goodness, this is great, this winning culture. I just got here from Cleveland or Arizona or wherever, wherever.

Name a place, right? but no, so I would say the running joke from that first year, so you know, for me, it just happened to hit in free agency for me. So I'd had my first original rookie contract was for three years, then I did another three

with the Patriots, so then that finished me at six and it just happened to be my unrestricted year and Manjini was getting this job. So I had really looked hard at the same with them really wanted to, but they loved me. You know, Scott, Julie, and I were close

and had a ton of respect for him, you know, really still one of the places of building all that stuff. But they had a hardcore, you know, sort of set value for what they felt about me, and they appreciated me for that, but they never saw me as a future, you know, a full-time starter. They thought I was better as a spot starter, backup, and killer on specialties. He's like, that's who we are in the league.

That's what you'll always be. And it's sort of just, you know, soul crushing to hear that. I just you're thinking I'd love to go start someplace. But the reality of my own game was, you know, I was an edge-setting, a defense guy, but with no pass-rush, could pass cover a little bit if necessary, and then cover kicks, you know, that's, and blocked the hell out of people. So that's just, you know, it's a niche kind of makeup, and Bill felt that way, and he was sort of Arden on that CER, and we really value that, but that's all it is. So Mangini, on the other hand, was like, no, I've been around with you, working for a couple years.

you could absolutely be a starter in the NFL. You just need your opportunity. I mean, you played behind Braves and Willie for all those years. So, of course, you didn't break through the starting lineup, but in a better situation, you could. So anyway, that's in part when we were going to negotiation. But those two guys, I did not take a trip to Houston, did not take the trip to San Francisco.

Those were sort of the other alternatives in free agency. And, you know, in fairness and standard, it was, hey, I know this guy. He seems to like me. can he seems that I can believe him that my role might actually increase. I went out, so anyway, we start season, you know, I'm early in that class. There was, I believe, tampering charges were filed against the Jets early on, and I was part of that. So when you're talking about the bad blood stuff, I mean, this is part of it, right? So there's some off-season sort of finagling.

It was a weird year. I don't know if you guys remember this, but, I think there was a just the certification or there was an attempt to extend the CBA or something was going on that offseason. So the startup free agency got messed up a couple different times. So, you know, I'm

trying to be first you know, first hour that you know, it's like at midnight on whatever day it happens if we were afraid to see open. And I know I'm going down to see the Jets. Kimo Van O'Hoffen. I don't remember Kimo. Kimo was a stud interior defense climate for Pittsburgh that we'd

played against for years. So he knew he was of free agent so Eric had been targeting chemo and myself and Tim DeWite was a guy that had actually killed us when we were out when he was the chargers out in San Diego and he had really given us a lot of problems and I believe it was the three of us on that first opening weekend you know sort of being wanted to die and trying to get that done but something about that we had gone down thinking we were good to be there and then they changed the date and I think that I think that had something to do with it I don't know if we did anything wrong I don't think we did but the point is they filed something

that we were, they had reached out to us too soon or at the wrong time, something like that. But anyway, that kind of shows the temperature up behind the scenes a little bit. And anyway, so you go into the game and you guys' question for my long-winded answer was basically just those the temperature in the two places. And I was kind of joke with a lot of my new friends at this new place that, like, it was sort of New England, but just in like green pajamas. Like, it was weird that, you know, I went to the first practice and you're giving this, you know, your sweat stuff, on top the bottom, which I used to be in like either a gray version or a blue

version in New England. And it was like logo changed all green, but then literally the practice schedule was the same. It was like I was in the new building, but I was like doing all the different stuff wearing a different thing, you know? Do that make it easier to make the change? Yeah, super easy. And that was the appeal for me is I already know what I'm getting into. I know what I'm doing. I know what the scheme I'm going to be playing in. This is, that's the appeal, right, for someone like me. And it was, hey, you're going to come down and be a leader. You'll be a special team, you know, kind of leadership type kind of thing.

And we go through the offseason and then I get voted in a cap and so I kind of know that like, you know, I'm coming down here to kind of help teach this defense and, you know, teach the whole air quote. I know it's yes, but the, you know, Patriot way kind of stuff and all that. And, you know, that was that was a stick. That was that was kind of what we were doing. So yeah, but to stay, you know, there's familiar faces. Remember Brian Cox was a, But BC was a teammate of mine who's now a coach there. And, you know, just there was enough of Corwin Brown who had been a former patriot now, like a defensive back coach there.

You know, there's Bob Sutton. I don't know if you ever had any connections with the guys. But there were enough sort of pseudo-familiar faces in the building that had connections either with Eric or other people of those guys done around a league. And we're kind of, you know, just enough of us in the room. Bobby Hamilton at one point came down. I don't remember it was that year, maybe the next. But then Tylaw comes back, and I was there, and T.D. Troy,

or I'm sorry, Tim Dwight had been into England with us for that one season just prior to that. So, you know, just bring along, and this is really common. Bring along as many familiar faces you can and try to help sort of translate for the next trip. Yeah. What about the non-football stuff, Matt? Like, did you live? Did you move? Was it facilities any better or different?

Yeah. So I don't remember Doug Gabriel. you remember that name? Widerston, oh yeah. This season. So Doug rent in my condo in Bellingham here.

So I kept my place here not knowing, you know, this is a freer contract end in New York. Who knows what's going to happen? I, you know, this is my first relatively large, you know, get a signing bonus,

get an extended deal. You're in a little bit more leadership position. You're going to make a little bit more money. So hey, I'm going to buy a house. I bought a new construction in Long Island on Huntington, in the middle of the island. But I did it sort of under the

understanding that it was going to be a relatively quick flip because the jets there was a three-year contract for me and two of the years are in Hempstead there, you know, at Hofstra. And the third season I know is going to be over in Jersey because they're building there a brand new shiny train still, right? So I kind of bought the house, no one was going to flip it. And like an idiot, you know, I bought this thing right in the middle of the real estate craft, right? So a new construction in 2006, a really high dollar in the north shore of North Carolina. and, uh, whoopsy.

You're probably breaking even on that right about now. I took a bath. And I haven't had a thing for 10 years, too. So that's another side story. But anyway, the point was, yes, I bought a houseman island. I'm happy. I've got a big home. I'm feeling a little bit more like a vet.

And, uh, really nice place. I live in maybe an exit or two away from Bethpage Black where, you know, where the writer cup was just recently. So we would go post practice, you know, a couple times, uh, you know, I probably play there half a dozen over time a summer. I was there for three years and just, Best page is down the street. But the only thing that sucked is

the black horse you can't write a card on. So you've got to walk. So you can imagine you know, you're tired after workouts and stuff. We're trying to sneak away to get on a map piece and you've got to walk the old day. Steve Brown would never.

Yeah, I only play golf with beer and carts for sure. It does. It does. complicate the decision. It's like, wow, great. Amazing, you know, of course. But I have to walk. What is that all about?

So, just kind of bring it back to this game a little bit. I felt like there was a lot of kind of gamesmanship between Belichick and Manjini. Was there ever like, like, when you're on the Patriots, was there ever kind of like this, like anything from Belichick that would give you an idea of the fact that he really did not like the Jets at all. Because there's been kind of like a lot of talk about that, but nobody like specific has ever said, yeah, no, he told me he hates the Jets.

It's just kind of a feeling everybody got. Yeah, I don't think it was like, you just read your coach. You know, your coach is, that guy, of course, is laser focus weekend, week out. But there's always a little extra juice in Jets Week. And that's just everyone knew his history. He didn't have to get on the podium and make a speech about it. But yeah, of course, Bill had history with that team.

it was the animosity for the way it ended and changed hands. And for all those, the six years I was in knowing one, of course, when Jet's Week came up, Jet's Week was a big, bleep of deal. And that was just kind of how it was. We always knew that. So, yeah, now you're wearing that stuff. You're playing for the other place. You have a real appreciation for you.

I know what you're thinking about this week. Yeah. But in fairness, it was kind of fun, you know, in my point of view, I mean, think of all the guys that have come through there. Like I mentioned, Bobby Hamilton, Roman 5th, for you. to play there. Brian Cox, he was there, Taila was there. Bobby Hamilton, Vic Green,

of course, Kurtz Martin. We can go down with it. I mean, there's even more. But the point of it is, like, there's a lot of guys that have been in both places and even other spots in the division and kind of have seen both sides of it. You kind of, from the Jets point of view,

it's very much little brother, like, so annoyed with here and all the the hatred's crap, right? And it's just, it's in this hump we can never get over. So sick of the past crap, right? Oh, yeah, I can relate to Sunday Andy all the time, for sure. I mean, that's, you know, I was the part of the past graph. So, like, it was, you know, now I'm in here and I'm seeing the other side of it,

and you kind of get like, okay, it sucks always, always being, you know, sort of the punching back to the other side. So, you know, it's the driving force. It's the, as much as I, you know, it energizes the path locker and play the jets. It certainly does that for the jets and back in the other direction. Yeah. But, like, the Belich and me, Genie Handshake, which obviously

they even commented on this game, their first one, but that became like must-see TV. Like, why do you think like that? Because Belichick never really had that kind of acrimony against any of his other assistants who went elsewhere. Yeah. Why, I'm talking on my ass here, so I know nothing at all on this particular subject.

But, you know, I just presume that maybe there's just more to it because it was in New York, right? So if Eric had gone to Denver, I mean, I don't know what was available back then, but, you know, whatever. Name a team, any team. it's maybe just that it was that particular team, right? And that it was kind of a pick up or stuff and get it out of here now

once you realize that's where you're going. Because obviously, you know, lingering and, you know, getting any intel on the way out the door is probably bad balls. So, yeah, I mean, that's just, oh, you play for them now, screw you. And honestly, I was a relatively insecure guy back in those days. You know, you're a team's guy and you're just happy to keep chugging away and knocking out yours. And I'm thinking, oh, man, I went to here.

Well, I made more money here. And I didn't make a ton of money prior to that. They were never going to pay me a lot. I got a lot more money here. And everyone's got to understand that right. And I'm like, oh, man, they all hate me now. It's just like, you know, it's that whole psychological thing. But a lot of my good friends are still back there.

Obviously, is or Larry iso and Braves and grew up all the other linebacker guys. So, you know, like everyone understands. You've got to do what's best for your family and all that stuff. But yeah, you definitely, you definitely felt tension because it was that particular. place that we want. Yeah. So Matt, can you speak on like what, like, what are the little things that, like, you would say to us that, like, makes you feel that tension? Like, what specifically, like, turns that up? Is it the coach? Is it what he's telling you how they're going over film? Like, what specifically, like, makes you feel that? So, um, some things. Obviously, just in the game week.

I mean, but I had to be fair here. So, like, even going back to, like, my rookie season where I didn't play. I was cut and then came to the Patriots. I was in St. Louis of the Rams. So when I, I'm just seeing this as like a wide-eyed, brand-new guy in the league. The Rams got that way about the Niners.

And I knew nothing of it, right? Like, I don't know anything about either team, but it just was really weird in the building. They all got crazy excited about it. And there's just some fan from, from Iowa, the general in the film, and I was out of a team. I was like,

why have these guys so into the Niners thing? I don't get this, you know? But the point of it was there's like legitimately injured in energy about it and there's guys all around the building that have maybe been involved in it longer and they feel that intensity like someone might with some sort of Ohio State Michigan thing that I'm

foolish about and hey this is their thing whatever I'm going to go along with it and eventually it'll become my thing after a few years too I guess but I mean that's just that's just kind of how it is so in knowing on the Jets and Patriots that's just kind of how it is they hate each other for whatever reason right I don't know the history it's not mine but

they don't like each other's yeah how much of that comes from like the fans and the media and everything because it is it's a boston new york thing right and so how much of that feeds into like your side of things thousand percent i mean listen i i actually i say this to maybe every former patroness guy i i you want to screw that i i bet there's a bunch of guys and we've talked about this did actually appreciate it in other environments where it's kind of wild like buffalo's an example like they're always the opponent right but that's a cool place like when they get going and It's pretty sweet when, you know, it's just a fun environment to play and you kind of like it to the while. I kind of felt that way about, you ever playing a Monday night football game in New York and the old Meadowlands? And they're doing the JETS thing. I know it pisses up, page of fan.

I know it's annoying as hell. But, like, when you're hearing it and you are a jet, it's pretty cool. It's Monday night football and the, you know, the fireman guys doing his thing and they're doing the JET. I mean, that place is rocking. It's one of the loudest places on Earth right there in that moment. And it's pretty freaking cool. So, you know, and it's more of that when, hey, it's the Pats in the building, right? And that's the other thing.

It was new to me. I mean, this is my second game, I think, as a jet, the week before we had traveled to Tennessee. So, you know, this is my first time seeing the other side of it. And they were fired up. You know, hey, we got first Pats coach, you know, and we're playing them. And this is the whole thing. So, yeah, it was a charged atmosphere in state of league. I mean, yeah, it definitely seemed that way for sure.

And it was one of those games where, like, the Patriots went up early, too. They were up 24-0-0 and then kind of on a fluke, Jericho-Cotrary, like, catch where he, like, somehow his knees didn't go down. That play was crazy. I watched it a bunch of times to find out how he actually didn't touch the ground. It's just got hit high and low at the same time, and then got hit high onto the low guy and then just kind of bounced off him. I think it was Rodney Harrison. I rolled over the top of them. And then we were all big plays that game.

I had to, again, no recollection of it. I had to go back and watch and go, oh yeah, oh yeah, I remember all these things. But it was Jaco's crazy play, and then there was also Labrinius Coleselso.

He had the really big 40 plus yards catch and run in the second half. So yeah, half got up on us big in the first half, but we fought back, made close, and lost it down the stretch. So I think one of the biggest things

that stood out to me, and this is, you know, again, don't have the recollection live in my library, but when I click on a video, go, oh, yeah, that's that thing. I remember, obviously, sort of the energy, and I'm fired up, and I'm angry, and I'm ready to go, you know, have an awesome game because they didn't retain me and, you know, offer as much as I wanted to, and hey, the Jet did, so I appreciate that

on my bluff. And so we go down on the opening kickoff, and the one thing I did know, and this, Bill, Bill did do this quite a bit, is he would, he would, he never wanted someone who left there to come back and make plays against them, right? I knew that. We would do that to other guys that, you know, that we knew or that we, you know, there's no way of blank who left is going to come back and have a big game because it's not going to happen. So I knew when I left that I'm going to get some extra attention.

You just know it. And so I come down on an opening kickoff and two guys from the wedge beer off and come towards me. It's like, I just do what is it going to happen, right? And one of them was Steve Neal. And go back and check this out. I actually give Steve a real good, not coming back pretty good. But it's not fair on the guy who accepts that blow. he knows that I know. We all hate it. We'd always

been talking about this for years. But Steve is a starting guard in the NFL exception. He's a bath on the guard in the NFL. And he's out there in the wedge. Like, it's crazy. And, you know, Bill is that way. He would always use his guys, you know, full roll. But, you know, Steve doesn't want to get hit by some, you know, 255-pound guy, same height as him running down the field at full speed.

And Steve just a 10-yard running it. Like, it's not fair, right? So I know it because when we flip it around and we're on kicker turn, and I'm the one that has to get hit. I hate him. But I knew how much Steve hated those damn things because he'd complain about it. And I'd complain about it. And I'm like, oh, dude, I'm going to go get hit him. So we just want to play.

I know we hate him. And I really want to do this. And I'm going to go kind of, you know, I saw him kind of peel off. I got Steve. So I got a pretty good shot on him. But then somebody else picked me up and sort of brushed me away. So I didn't get an attack on the opening kickoff. But on the first punt, I did get the tackle on Cape Falk.

You did. Kay Falk, the buddy. And I just, it was that moment where, you know, you say hello and pregame, you chit out with a few of the guys. But it's pretty cool. You know, you're trying to go win your thing and I'm trying to do their thing. But it was that moment on, you know, I'm covering a kick and, oh, I'm on top of the play. And, oh, it's kind of, hey, Kevin.

It's just kind of, oh, hey, what's up? And it's kind of get up and it's like, this is so weird. This is like, attack on your brothers or something. And, you know, try to be all angry and, oh, I'm pissed. I'm like, oh, it's Kevin. You know, like, oh, oh, dude. and there's Tommy and DeBruitt. I don't know.

It is kind of a weird thing. Like you want to be focused and into it and trying to be some sort of menace. But they're all your old buddies. Yeah, I mean, that was actually the play that, like when I was watching this game last night, I saw that that happen. I thought, oh, yeah, that's right.

Matt Chatham was on the Jets in this one. That's what made me reach out, actually. It was watching that play. And so it kind of feels like coaches and, like, that side of thing. and, you know, the fans on the meeting and everything holds maybe more, no, animosity might be a strong word, but hold more grudges than maybe the players themselves in these games. Yeah, I mean, I think in the fair point, it's just that it kind of depends on guy's situation, right?

So there are going to be people that hold grudges against teams, because they don't like when they left and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I think Assante Samuel is a good example. He's very public with it, so I'm afraid he knew that Zonk isn't the biggest fan of the team or whatever. But I mean, there are certainly those situations where a person will have something out against the past. I certainly did. I was super grateful for the time there and still had tons of friends there. Like I said, kept my place there, although I had run it out to a receiver there. But, I mean, I knew I was most likely coming back at some point.

So it's not like, you know, you were trying to burn a bridgeless like that. But, yeah, I think it's more the timelessness of it. You know, if you're going to middle school and high school or whatever and I've grown up knowing, you know, that we're supposed to hate this team. and we do hate this team and hate the characters that are involved with that. Yeah, of course, the fans, I think, put a lot more stock in that than maybe players do. But like we mentioned before, I think teams kind of take their guidance from the staff. And if the staff has, you know, when Bill's situation has a really, really, you know, thing against somebody, then, yeah, it's going to reverberate and the guys will take it on.

And in that instance, I think it's sort of read both ways. Like everyone knows that Bill feels that way. And then your guys now, Eric, so we got to stand up first. our guy or whatever, right? That's just kind of how the dynamic of this sort of plays out. All right, I have the real question everyone's thinking, but they're too afraid to ask.

When did you first hear the word spy gate? So is that that season or is this to do it? Is that 07? This is like what's leading up to it though. Yeah. Okay. Did something happen in this game that's relevant? No, I think it's... No, I don't think so. I think there's just kind of that early

gamesmanship. Yeah. You'd see in 06 games especially like in the wildcar game too you saw that a lot of trying to one up each other from a coach's standpoint I think but you were there in 07 right because you were there I was there for three years

so the thing with the the reason I know I experienced spigate from the sideline so I had I had a desmoid joint pair so I had like reconstruction on my foot in the way someone would have it on their knee

like an H's heel repair my big toe joint and big scar between the person's side of the leg second. You're great. So in your next toe. One on the side and then ligaments reattached from the bottom of my foot. It was a whole. Yeah. It was a hot mess. So I had that from

mini camp. It actually happened. I played every single game as a jet with that stupid thing that I didn't have the surgery until after the season. So I had torn that in mini, I'd taken that new contract with a jet and I tore that in mini camp and played that whole first season with that stupid thing. And it was

driving me nuts and then didn't really get it looked at until after the year. I was like, dude, your ligaments are all pulling up on. I'm like, I know, I know. So I'm getting older and I can't move and I knew getting something fixed. So the point was I was on QP though to start the season. So the 07 season. So I actually was, you know, part of the helping get signals in kind of crew because we know that they, you know how it is. Like they, you use several guys. There's dummy signals and all that stuff. And the other side's the same thing back to you and all that. So yeah, I was directly across on the whole camera guy on the sideline thing so i saw that tapes i saw that i saw that out of uniform so it was they do this a lot in the NFL it's like uh you know like a veteran happens to be injured and they

want them on a sideline just go coach a little bit yeah and enter code whatever so i was kind of in their role that day so i i said i get game or whatever right there from the side by not really playing so yeah wow so that may have been you that we saw calling the plays in the one by gate video that everybody just found the 10 second clip of. I think it was very often the dummy call. You know, the guy would give him the fake signals. Like, if anyone really bought what I was signaling

am, I got 20 sock in those durations. Like it looked like a naked gun kind of thing. Like I was doing it. I did, you know, so that, I'm glad we got the timeline right there because 06, I don't really recall.

So the one thing with the 06 season relative for the games to ship and the really sort of animosity with one another. They sneak through with the win on that opener, the one in our place. But we did play them again in season, and we won later in the year in November there. Hard fought win, muddy day, gross day. And the kicker from that one was, I believe they had a buy the week after. And they tore up the turf. And so that was the last grass game, I believe.

Oh, interesting. that we beat them in that kind of muddy scenario. And I believe they caught Gabriel after that. Sounds familiar. After that game, because there's been a drop or two or something or a fumble or something like that. And I know this because I was trying to collect rent from the dude. And when they saw them, he laughed at it. I don't think I ever saw a check after that.

And he probably owed him from a lease for a couple more months or something. Wow. That was a whole little side story to that. But anyway, so I do know that they were mad because, you know, it was a mud-beat-up game and we were, you know, their high-flying Patriots and we're just kind of a grind-it-out. Jets team, really good defensive squad there that year. Pennyton's playing well.

Got some good receiver crew. The running game is kind of a mess. But, you know, we can grind it out and went a game like that. We did. And I, Bill was furious with the surface. And they, if I remember, right, I think it's because they had a bye week next day. We're able to tear it up in season and actually put turf down during the year. That's funny because last week we were actually wondering when that happens.

Yeah. I asked it last week because of week one, the field looked terrible already. Oh, garbage, yeah. Yeah, I'm almost positive. Yeah, it happened that year because remember, we play them in the first time of the playoffs in the wild card game. Yeah. And there's turf down. Oh, yeah.

Interesting. And, you know, Sante has that big interception or big six on the sideline. I mean, that's that one burned in my brink. Yeah. that was that season so close game you know puncher chance kind of thing in the first one come back beat them in a second and get annihilated as a playoff I'm looking forward to that game yeah I also hate the Jets just to be clear so Matt like in the progression like of that season does it get uh like did the I don't know like when you're playing against the Patriots does it get

different like as does it get a little bit colder as the season gets on or like you're seeing them again and it's still just kind of still friendly. Because it must be kind of awkward where you know you're trying to prove yourself like against the front office and coaching because, you know, they're not valuing you where you think you should be valued

and then you're having to take that out on like some of your former friends like on the field. You know what I mean? So as the season goes on, does that change at all? I remember a conversation I had with Scott Piole and all candor here. I love Scott. He's been great to me all throughout my career

for getting me to New England and then while I was there and then in post. But he did make a comment to me in the three agency negotiation about concerns with durability. And, you know, like, listen, I'm very open and forthright about what I'm good at, what I'm not good at, that kind of thing and the issues I had.

And I had a lot of bumps and bruises that I played through as a patriot. I was probably living in the train room guy. I still played in the games. But, you know, that was with taking, you know, on average, somewhere between 10 and 20 plays the defense as a backup, and then the 30th place of the team. And I

think he had a reasonable and probably validated later on concerned that given me 65 plays of defense plus the teams, I break down. And it ended up being true. So like I mentioned, they go, you know, they gamble that I'm not a long time starter

and I blew that toe out, literally a mini-champer play. on the shitty hoster turf, right? Oh, gosh. Outside, outdoor turf. It was horrendous. Oh, yeah. My cleat caught the smag and the toe turn sideways.

Bunyan's like a two inches on my shoe. Like, it was fair once. My toe sideways. I had to reset it, tape it, and play through that thing for the season. But, and then, you know, at that point, now I'm relatively immobile. And it's my big chance to say, hey, I can get a full-time starter. And I'm hobbly. So I'm able to still play and pull together.

because I'm a vet, but now I'm still in a, I'm basically down there in a rotational situation similar to what I was before. Victor Thompson and Brian Thomas are there, good starters themselves, but to unseat one of them, I would need full speed me and I'd never had full speed me down there. So they're probably going, yeah, see? I'm going, yeah, you're probably right. So, no, so your question, though, is, you know, is it, you know, is it like that by by time you get the second game? And by, for me, it's like, yeah, I had cruised along, doing well for them playing well in the team's role and being a, you know, a valuable backup and rotating guy, but it was probably not much different than the role I had when I left New England,

so they're probably saying C. So for me personally, though, just thinking the arc of the season, you know, what are we trying to do down there, right? I'm a captain. We had a really good group of veterans down there. Pete, Pete Kendall, D.C. guy, an absolute stud, great guy, I believe, involved with a C. Smart dude. He's the, I believe he's the left guard, or right guard,

but the guard for the team and one of the captains, him and Chad, Vilma, who the other dude that the captain was? And then I was the team's captain. But anyway,

the point is we're kind of at that point where the group is trying to teach this past thing back to the room, right? So you've got a mixed locker room with people that,

in part might buy into it, in part or hold over some perm, you know, kind of thing. They're trying to figure out if we really buy this mangy stuff or not. You know, this is just a little fighting for a year. You went some, you lose some.

And did we be doing the band, the Velocic facsimile thing or not? And some guys are on board with it, some or not. So it's just sort of this tension throughout the season. But then you break through and you go out there and feed them there. And it's sort of that really heightened the whole main genius stuff or whatever at the time. And he's doing the appearance on sopranos or whatever. I think Ben Graham was our punter at the time, and I think some of them went on like Sesame Street or some shit during the year.

I don't know. The point is it's kind of good to be like a thing, you know? And people were buying in, and, you know, the way we played tight with the past and then actually knocking on it off later, and I think we finished winning five or six or whatever in the regular season. So, yeah, it was, you know, people are starting to say, there might be something to them. I did not know his own sopranos.

like a second and last episode or something. Yeah, just like a cameo or they were at dinner, I think. And they called him a genius. Yes, exactly. Tony, Tony looks over across the room and calls him that or something. And Eric Wave,

I think the dialogue was pretty short. But yeah, I mean, that's the Haida hole that was going on in the world right now. You know, maybe you will. So one more thing to like kind of

compared, like, New England to New York, the like amount of celebrities that are on the field. Like, it had to have been, like, you know, day and night compared to the, like, for home games at least, right? Thereof. Yeah. Yeah. So, listen, I've had this conversation a lot of several times, so she's fully aware of this.

But there was a particular Jets fan who was always on the field and pre-game, not always, but almost a thing, you know, there's kind of like the little flagged off area where the celebrity and stuff will come down. And Jessica Beal. Jessica Biel was a big Jets fan. Jessica Biel was down on the sideline watching linebacker area every time, and there would always be a little buzz that, hey, he's down here against you. He's amongst the guys, and we'd have a little linebacker, which is on back out. But he would be out doing, you know, throwing the ball around for like an obnoxiously long hour that you know he's not normally doing that because like, where such and such?

But no, there's definitely a lot more sort of peeping, I guess, for all the different celebrities and all that kind of stuff. And you notice it, for sure. And, like, you know, it's not always like that in New York because, you know, the Jets have had some down years and they don't show up for that stuff. But right. When the Mancini stuff was going on and, you know, we were kind of getting to be the talk of the town, a lot of that came back.

And, you know, made it fun, made it interesting. I mean, that's almost the, I think, outside of the Rex Ruff. an error. That's the last time the Jets have been relevant, really? Yeah, it was that one, it was that one year, right? Because then the next year, we had a step back in the year after that was the far year and, you know, okay,

but did quite the cross line. So, yeah, and then, yeah, Rex got into the playoffs and, yeah, I think it was a cold. I mean, to be fair, Chad Payne thing is the best quarterback in the AAC East until Josh Allen comes along after Brady. So I

I don't know if Pats fans, maybe I've said this at some point throughout, you know, all my post career time. But I actually came away with, you know, you have a, I don't know what to think of him. Because I think Chad was in Brady's class, right? Isn't Chad, he was? No, I think, yeah, I think he was, he was around that time. But I think he was. They're comparable age, though. But the point, the point of getting that is, you know, relatively happy, I think it was a first-round pick, right, for Marshall, you know, relatively well received.

guy's super accurate. He's not known to have a cannon arm, but like, you know, he's good, like good. And I didn't, you know, I didn't really have a strong opinion on one way or the other, but I remember arriving there and really, really being impressed with him just as like a person, as a teammate as like a leader, like an air quote patriot guy in a minute, right? Like he just really had incredible leadership quality. He's a really bright guy, really sharp dude. He did end up winning that NFL comeback thing in the year twice because he's just shoulder, went to crash. Yeah.

He just kept having arm issues and, you know, how he would have, I think he would be remembered and understood and appreciated much differently in the NFL over the course of his proof he had had all those problems. Yeah, I mean, I remember watching one of the games earlier, like before he had those issues where he beat the Patriots, I think in New England, like at the end of the year, one year. He looked like a different quarterback than even in this game that we watched. He just didn't have that deep ball anymore.

Yeah, Chad. I mean, check could groove it. Like, that dude could lead a guy into a route, like, as good as anyone I'd see. Yeah. But you know what I mean? Like, he had that anticipation throw and really reaped the defense well. And he's not super athletic. He's not going to run anybody.

But pocket movement was solid. And that was a good player. He was a really good player. And, you know, I just, you know, you kind of have a view of other guys around the division in league. And then you get to play with him. He's good. The stat line in this game. unfortunately.

300 yards. Two for 37, 306 yards, two touchdowns and the interception, but that was like a Hail Mary. Yeah, Brue get it,

right? Brick a pick. Yeah, that was awesome. That was actually Teddy's last pick of his career. Oh, wow.

Wow. That's a fun fact. Yeah, no, I mean, again, I know that won't be popular,

but I have a really, really high opinion with that. And I mean, I don't think we had a running game much then. I think Kevin Barlow

was actually are back. Not in Kevin, but we just, it was kind of a transition year where Leon Washington was brought in and he's going to be the, and he was a really good third bound type and kick returner. He was amazing for us and the team stuff. But Kevin was actually

his locker was next to mine. I was 58. I don't know if they mixed this on numbers or whatever, but they put Kevin right next to me. I'm a size 13 shoe. I think Kevin was a 12, maybe even 11 and a half or something like that, but Kevin would take my shoes and wear them on

unbeknown to me or him and go several practices or even games wearing the wrong size and I know, I'm like, dude, where did my left go out of my blah, blah, blah, and then come back and look in his locker and, you know, we were wearing, we were both Nike guys, so we had the same two.

I was like, dude, that's, how did you not know? It's two sizes different. What did that happen? That's something Greg Brown would do, but he would also like wear somebody else's cleats, but he would probably score two goals doing it because he's just oblivious. Noxious.

Yeah, to go back to your point, Leon Washington did lead this team in rushing with 650 yards. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Lee, they were a brand-new guy from Florida State. They were trying to figure out what to do with him. He was,

he's super high character guy. I didn't, didn't Leon come here for a year, or at least camp or something? Did he do a season with the past? Who? I feel like he did. William was.

That sounds very familiar, actually. No, you say that, yeah. I think he did. I'll check right now. It could be a camp thing, but I feel like he's here. I know. Yeah, that sounds familiar. I don't know why.

Yeah, in 2013. Two games. Didn't start. One carry, one yard. He didn't do much, but yeah. He's more of a special teams guy, right? Yeah, awesome on kick returns. Yeah.

I don't see as much as a punk guy, but his kick return game was phenomenal. I believe he made a promo. He did. We had Justin Miller. Justin Miller was one of our cornerbacks. It was a really good pump return, too. And we've gotten touchdowns with both of those guys in the season. So our team's group was real awesome.

I mean, that was the other part of the polls on the, obviously to go there. Mike Westoff, the teams coached, and usually within the past, yeah, those were three of the better teams groups across the league. So going to this next place, I knew they spent in that department, and we always had good guys that. Two Pro Bowls and a first team all pro. Yeah, sounds right. I mean, he was awesome.

You give him a gash and you get your guy beat and get him turned and you'd be right up your back and run it for space. Yeah, Matt, so if you have like a top three for returners, because who would you say your top three is? Quite a few. Troy is obviously the best of the pond. Troy was just really, uh, for it's not the fastest. That's the answer. I really panered on the crowd. I like that.

Yeah. But Troy was great. to get anyone was there, right? And nothing just off of a blocker. And, you know, I took pride in my pump return stuff as, you know, known as one of the best in the league at that thing. It's such a niche.

It's niche, niche. It's like some hitch. Pump return holdups and punt return blocking was probably the best thing I ever did the NFL. And it was great at that, and I enjoyed that part. I took it more seriously than like literally everyone when I would wipe my guy off the map, I wanted the rush to go through that, right? So, like, if I have eliminated my person and kept him at the line of scrimmage

45 yards from everyone, I've created a holder. You need to run through, that kind of thing, right? And Troy was not, and that's hard. I mean, it's hell back there when the ball's hung up 80 yards in the air, and you're waiting for it to come down, and the guys are upon you, and you've got to make one cut and get vertical. It's tough, so I know it's really not easy, but, you know, I certainly have played with guys at times who would have a harder than climbing,

the open spaces. And what was great about Troy is you made the holy family of the center time, right? So you didn't have to worry about a guy. Troy wasn't going to reverse field and run sideways and all that stuff. He was going to hit it and get it. And that's, you know, all thekers really appreciate it. That makes sense, yeah. Oh, top three, you know, I'm going to get in trouble if I don't mention K Fawke.

Kay Fawke was obviously great for us with kicks. KFalk was actually probably very similar. Whenever you get running backs, they do the kick returns, you know, they kind of see it differently. It's like once they get themselves up to the 25 or 30 things collapse and now you're into a run play, essentially. Yeah. there's a new sort of removed and replaced offensive and defensive lines. You kind of see the holes and you get through it like you would.

And then now the kickers, your free safety. And, you know, you're playing off from the safety leverage. The other guy and safety is, you know, it's a little bit similar, right? So the running backs tend to really see that better. And they let the blocks kind of happen and develop and they run off them. And Cape Walk is the same idea. And I think maybe that's the Belichick thing, like, he doesn't like the guy that doesn't go where, you know, the block he knows, where the holes are.

So Kevin was great at that. I was just lucky. I mean, because I got TV. Tim was our partner turner in New York. And then Justin Miller, like I mentioned. And he made Pro Bowls, I believe, at least one of them. I think you had a Pro Bowl in this 2006 season, yeah. He was only just Pro Bowl this year.

Yeah, and I believe we brought one back into Cleveland games later that year. We had a huge game there at the Cleveland. I don't think we did much offensively, but we didn't play with both. I had a defensive player there on teams. So, yeah, I was just lucky I played with a lot of really good players. So I don't think I was ever really the time where, We didn't have, like, a pretty eye-in guy, both upon kick-return time throughout. Well, that's a credit to you because of what you're doing, you know?

That partner turned, hold up work is just... Exactly, exactly. Well, that's what I've been telling everyone, but no one's... Right. You know, in this day and age, just by someone on YouTube really getting into that stuff. Dude, I'm right here. The problem is they don't record it, so you could never know, right? So if you have actual the old all 22s, of course you can see all that stuff.

I think they exist. I've been looking for it. So there was a really funny one, and I'm out in my friend here, so sorry I'm with you. But Rocky Boyman, stud, real good player, Notre Dame guy, you know, was with the Colts and with Tennessee. But we had a, we had to wrap with one another in, I believe it was a Tennessee game when they were playing this in the past. And I got a good one against him and kind of kept them at the line's script. dimension to the sideline. We were maybe 40 or 50 yards from everyone else.

And he's waving his arms out to the side. And you just see this kind of funny, like, you know, guys, like he's waving in an airplane or something trying to get off. And I'll give the good side for Rocky story of it. Then Rocky got me back years later when I told him, I'm going to make an excuse for myself. But when my toes jacks up, I can't run anymore. And he was a big guy.

He was a big guy that can run. And he slipped my hold up a little bit the line so that I was just ever run straight with him. He was faster me at that point. He smoked me down the field. So he got me back. But I actually got to be teammates there when I was in New York with Brad Castle and Cody Spencer. Those are two linebackers that are with me but had played with him in Tennessee. And they would always plan on them about that play.

How much you got. They got shit for it. But yeah. I'm clowning our guys a little bit, but also like really lucky to play with those guys because they were all really, really good. I mean, you can, you notice that. time so if the block is that good i remember troy brown's kick return in the 2001 a fc

championship game i was about to bring that up somebody got blocked it through the back at the end zone on that kick return i don't remember i think it was rodney maybe no obviously not rodney he was like that too early well me and me and the guy had stayed the blind scrimmissible place so we never left i'll not say any more about you go looking back up but yeah let the tape speak for itself yeah we'll go back and find out don't you worry. Yeah, speaking of,

plug your Patriot games, man. You said you got watch it on YouTube Andy built a whole site to rewatch every game from the Patriot's Dynasty. Yep,

they're all on there. Pagerist dot games. I need that. Well, so I'm just good to know that exists because we get these conversations, you know,

all these different tech teams with all teammates. And there's always like the one guy that remembers and everything I remember him. Like I need this, I need the refresher because, you know,

always, and Brady's this way and some of the other, you know, guys are constantly on TV being of like, they'll be reminiscing about, well, in 2013 and the fourth week on third down, I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? Do you remember any of that?

I mean, really seems like he's, he's just watched that tape recently, probably. That's just what he does for fun. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah, because I think out of myself and just pretending like I remember all these things. I went back and watched him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right, exactly.

Yeah, it's wild what you actually do remember, because this is, you know, This is our formative years. It says fans, like growing up, it's like middle school, early high school for me. And it's just like the things that you remember or even that like trigger memory too when we're going back and rewatching some of these. Yeah, like that country touchdown is like,

where you would go like, oh yeah, this is the one thing that stands up from that game. Yeah. And I'm just as pissed off as I was 20 years ago. Yeah, I don't remember it, but like, how could you forget that was in the same play? I had the same reaction with the LCP. So when Lambernius caught that ball and went the whole way, because he was a huge personality.

I mean, very gregarious guy, fun, kind of a shit talker in a good way, tough as nails kind of dude. And, you know, like you said, I'm brand new to the place. This has a little crazy all the time. You're kind of figure out where all these people are. And you kind of think this guy might be okay. This may be good by reputation. And, you know, we had our playmakers. You know, Brad Smith was a guy who became a pro bowl later as a special.

guy. He was a rookie in that class. Like I said, Kima was a guy who, you know, was just cool. It was, towards the end of his career, but it was just, you always thought this guy was just obese, you know, from what he was like in Pittsburgh. Jonathan Vilma, somebody who had an opinion of, obviously, as a sideline

guy could play over the place. I didn't know as much about Eric Barton. He's a teammate then at the time and he came to really first, he was an awful good player. Yeah, that's kind of a cool part about bouncing around a little bit. Like, you know, some of my old buddies were to play in one place forever, which is super cool, too. But, you know, kind of getting to meet other people and get a different perspective of what

they're like against and then what they're like is actually a teammate. I appreciate that I got this. Yeah. And speaking of Albertus, do you think he was probably the best receiver you played with? Because I don't know. I think he's, his route running is just so good. He played with Troy Brown. Jesus Christ.

Leverne's? Yeah. I mean, I guess you could probably call those guys relative to. similar to one of them, right? I don't think either of them are burners necessarily. And all see was just top, but he was a top dude. Yeah, he's kind of a little Steve Smithish, you know?

Yeah, he's got that dog in him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They're probably very similar. But I mean, remember this is like Justin McCarrens, I believe, was bought over from Tennessee as a free agent, I think, and the Cairns was kind of this, like, really athletic smooth, route-running kind of guy.

And, like, we were talking about who were talking about how the crazy play um jaco yeah jaco had you know was just kind of up and coming player and yeah it's kind of fun Chris Baker who actually came into the past year too

right towards the end of his career he was the Michigan State tight end there and he was a really good blocker which I know is you know no sexy or whatever but like he was someone that you respected as an opponent and as a teammate his ability to block it's a tight end and yeah it's kind of fun seeing

seeing the other side of guys again So in the broadcast, they're talking about the rookies on the Jets offensive line. And then they named the two names, and it's DeBrigashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold. Obviously, names are. Did you know, like, right away that these guys are like, oh, shit, they're real good? Because you're practicing against them all time, or to take them all the first rounders, too. Yeah, both first rounders. That was a really good class.

I mean, if you look at who he got that season, we're getting Leon, and then getting those two guys. I'm blanking on the rest of the class. Justin Miller must have been in it too, right? I think. No. He was Brad Smith. Brad Smith.

Yeah, yeah. Really high-end teams guy. But anyway, so, yeah, I would say, Nick, yeah, I mean, he's just a huge human. And usually, like, centers in the L. are usually not the biggest guys, right? So if you look like a Dermonti-Dawson kind of thing back in the day, the pulling center kind of thing with the viewers,

or sometimes they're the lighter, smaller guys. You think to our crew, like, you know, like, you know, Dan Copen is like, I think Dan weighed less than me. Like, Copa's, but he's, you know, we've got heavy to play the center in the NFL, but like he's not a natural over 300-front guy. He was probably playing in two years or 90s or something like that, and super athletic and decent going stick. But, yeah, that's more of like your NFL center kind of body,

but Nick was more like Woody when Damien Woody was at center, right? Like, he's a thick and wide. So it's a different kind of center. So, yeah, I mean, you can see he was going to be an easy pro. And Rick is just different in that, like, you know, there's different kinds of, I want to say Anthony Clement was there at the other end. Is that right? Yeah, right.

Yeah, so Anthony is like 6-8 and probably 340 or 30 or something. He's huge, right? 6-8, he's like a really, really big guy and thick and heavy and all that. Rick was like maybe six thick But like really just kind of a blown up tight end Like he's not like the heaviest thickest like this He's not the fat kid through elementary He's not like he's not like little giants

The chubby kid like that's always going to be the linemen Like brick was brick looks like a tight end really He also has and look look at this up you know If you just do like you know APM inches or something or some sort of Google image search He had the longest risk I've ever seem like that sounds like a weird statement like I think his forearms end and his hand

starts like further away than most people over society like which it makes we're like an incredibly strong and long punch right when this guy extends out you and keeps away you're not kidding yeah he's really crazy long Google the Brickshaw Ferguson wrist

Andy I didn't even have to I just did uh yeah I'm doing it now too but he's one of those guys that's just different. Like that's a different kind of athlete for, it was from UVA, I believe. But, you know,

he's obviously plus plus athlete for that position. But also not the thickest, heaviest human in the world either, right? He's not like he's got some giant ass and this is not, you know, trying to think of a traditional, big old left tackle kind of thing. He's like this amazingly athletic,

but I think it's kind of looks like Daniel Graham out there. Yeah, he's got rare attributes, right? And so that length, you know, the joke about his forearms or whatever, like, it was an asset once you figure out to use it because he could just keep you away from him. You know, he had great reach. And he talked about, you know, like the length or whatever the guys have. Like, he was uniquely skilled that way. And, you know, he had some struggles. I think his first gear just kind of figured out how to use it all.

But, man, once they got him going, he was, he was really good. Yeah. Yeah, his, like, arms go down to his knees. Yeah. you kind of learn where I know we just got out of all the hay long arms don't matter and tackle talk but I'm just saying well let's put it in this this is why right because Will Campbell has an ass on him and he's thick and he's strong as fit Brick doesn't have that thick lower you know he doesn't have the anchor so you need the length to keep people off you and he's super strong and brick was strong but I'm just saying he's not like an anchored to the ground know, you know, heavy human.

So Will is, so the length becomes a lot of the issue. So what you're saying is Will Campbell is going to be the better left tackle long term over their careers. You're not going to get me to close with a comparison. I have one last question. We have had a hypothetical conversation that had some disagreements. I think it was if we had, I think it was, if we had, I think it was, five tries to tackle Corey Dillon once for a million dollars, could we do it?

And I imagine you are someone who has seen Cory Dillon in practice back in the O'Four's season. And got to tackle him. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think a normal person could tackle Cory Dillon? Yeah. Anyone can tackle anyone in the given the right circumstance.

I actually believe that because there are the really tight spaces and sort of goal line and short yardage and if he has to plug it up in there and you guys just go over his ankles he could trip him probably so open open field so here's the thought so like if you're in really extreme close spaces and he just has to shoot the hole and he's going to be hitting and falling down anyway um i think you could take i could throw you into the hole and help you tackle him we'll put we could we could cut block core you yeah literally throw you under the bus got it exactly exactly we could yeah i think that was that was going to be my technique was just a kind of my body at him and

hope he goes down the first try because I'm not going to have another four. But I think we said Oklahoma drill Andy. Yeah, I think it was Oklahoma drill, yeah. Well, so remember here, I'm being very specific. So I'm not giving him any wiggle room left or right. So the hole is so tight that he has to run through it and you have to run through it. And I'm not letting you

hit him above his knees because he'll kill you. But I'm just saying, if you get five chances and he's really nowhere he can go, I think if we make a pile with you, it's, you know, he's going to have And he has to jump over And you manage to catch his foot or something.

Yeah, something. And again, this is nothing to do with Corey. I think it's really any circumstance if you make it tight enough. I think the ones would give you more, well,

no, Corey is, he's thick and he's heavy and he hits really hard too. He has that thing where he turns his shoulder. He's kind of like on contact. He almost gives his back, which is weird.

Yeah. You hit him. It's, he's, there's a lot there. Yeah, it looks like a bit of a brick wall. Yeah.

Now, Jamal Lewis was really, really heavy. Brandon Jacobs was super heavy. But listen, again, I want to game to make you make the tackle, and that means I'm going to make the space so tight, and he has to run it, and you have to run it, and I'm not going to let you be up high.

I think he'll be okay. You can even just sit on your hands and eat, right? Sideways, and we could build the whole small enough to where he'd have to run into you, and I break your ribs, but we can get him. I don't think there's a mite about that. I'll bring my rates for a million bucks. Yeah, I know. But we can get them to go down any back if we game the drill just won.

So who's the hardest person to tackle that you encountered? So most of the difficult to tackle conversations are in space. It's not really as a running back. Running back, you know, it's here in the half field and you're not as open, not as the open pastures. Like catching Dante Hall out in the open. or catching Steve Smith out in the open when he was a punt returner. Or catchy Charles Woodson as a punt returner was always really tough. Those are so much more difficult than run game tackle.

That makes sense. Yeah. Eddie George or any of those guys. So it's not easy. It's still difficult because they're big of physical and stuff. But I'd rather do the biggest physical things than the can I even cut you? Can I take it? And there's a lot of those.

Like Antoine Randalel was another really hard one back today. basically just like the scatter bug or whatever the word scat bug yeah yeah yeah that thing the guys the guys are tough to touch you know that kind of thing so the elusiveness in open spaces this hell versus just the guy

yeah who's who's the human joystick uh like Greg Lotho yeah yeah I mentioned it be ridiculous so would you say would you have like a top three of like who you feared when it came to like returns. Well, so we had one that has always bothered us for years.

And it bothered us at the time, too. This is the Patriots season. I think it was the year we ended with Carolina in the regular season. So it wasn't the year we played them in the playoffs. That was, I think that was in the one. Yeah. Is that one it? Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So is Steve Smith on that team, though? Is that right? I think it was his rookie year. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, because he was just doing special teams. right so we have this thing obviously was you know is not larry and i and don davis i don wasn't don't that first one though that would have been yeah i think davis came over in o'clock three yeah yeah so this is more like fifer and inversky and braves and patrick pass and uh yeah one oh one team's

rod cherry obviously and all those guys like we take such pride of that we're one of the best crews in the league and then we kick everyone we don't kick touchbacks we don't kick out of bounds we want to cover the thing and uh we gave up it's not one maybe even two in that game relatively long returns to skew smith yeah yeah i vaguely remember that now and bill made us kick it out of bounds and we were fucking mad but yeah he made tenn walters made tennie kick it out and we were we were you know we can't yell bill on so we yell at brad to yell a bill for us maybe you know, I think he was going to do that. He didn't look at us and go, what do you want me to do?

You guys didn't cover it. But that's like insulting. Like, we're the ones like, you know, we kick the, we cover everyone kind of thing. But he got us. So, yeah, he was probably the one that had the most success with us and they need to in one game. But I don't think we ever really had serious problems with anyone and that was kind of part of the pride. Awesome. Oh, you know, Josh Scribs.

I should have mentioned Josh. Oh, my idea. Josh was crazy in that he's the only one you would listen for this continuum or whatever of guys that was as good as a coverage guy as he was in return. That never happens, right? You know, you couldn't see Troy Brown as good he was as front returns out being as effective

as a kick cover guy. Oh, yeah. That's unusual. But Cribs was, you know, similar to a Slater type as a coverage guy and then also was a killer kick return. So, you know, so he got out of the hard one. You know, he got the cover, and then he didn't have to block for anyone.

He got to catch the ball. You tried that, Matt. Come on. I did in high school. I did in high school. I was one of my Iowa famous anyway plays. I had, we had it. This is all the rails together.

That's how we roll. That's fine, yeah. This is against South Sioux City, which is actually in Nebraska. I'm from Sioux City on the other side of the river, Susie, North. and I was a punt returner, this big 6-foot-4 plus 190-pound free safety. So I actually, I put my first year at the free safety. So my body type was way different. I didn't know what you cut up.

But anyway, I used to be the pot returner in high school too. And kicks also, I think. But they ran a punt-fake. And so I'm back there. You know, it's high school, you know, maybe you're only 40 yards back, right? But they ran a punt-faker. I'm back as a punt-returner and, you know, snapped. the punter and then what would have been the inline edge and the guy that's kind of like the

tight end just runs a straight seat so you know they're fake is it's a punt and then they throw sort of a down-the-field team pass the punter the punter hung it up so I got a 25-yard run of this guy on a you know a hospital ball that they gave the guy and I almost broke him in half and ambulance on the field you know take him away that like you legit broke him in half Oh, yeah, yeah. It was an outrageous. I mean, it'd be, you know, this is free, you know, social media and TikTok and stuff. You would have seen it a thousand times by now. Yeah, Matt Chatham attempted murder on the field.

And the crazy thing is years later, I got a random phone call. So two things happen. So that's football season, right? And then by the time, the guy had healed up some, and we had played on the road at that place for basketball. And I was a baseball player, and we're playing at that place. and there's been a bunch of him and his teammates waiting out in the parking lot afterwards to try to get at me

and I don't think much of the security on several levels and police officers that much than happened in that moment but you know, he did kind of thing, right? And then years later, I get this weird from someone and like an unnumber or whatever saying, I still haven't forgotten. a weird hang up

and who the hell is that? Like, I've done a lot of things to a lot of people on this. I'm not exactly sure who that was and what that could have been referring to, but that's right. So I know he did last summer. Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing. Like, if somebody did something to me in high school and they turned out to be an NFL

linebacker, I'm not threatening them. I'm just saying right now. He was a ball. And then I had found out from friends later that that was him. Oh, okay. Wow. Friends of friends that knew people over across the river. Yeah.

So were you in the NFL at the time that he called? Like how many years after? I can't remember that. I can't like that. I'm not sure. Could have been at USC. I don't remember. Okay.

All right. That's hilarious. Wow. Yeah. I think I'm a story better because I'm old, right? So I'm at USC 95-955-398. So I don't think I had a cell phone yet. So the call would have had to bend to like a landline, which they didn't even better.

That's sketchy. He went through the phone. He went through the phone book. You're still, hey, Matt, just so you know, you're still on my list. And then he hung up and put his lipstick on after that. Exactly. Steve Bishimi thing. It's like, I'm up on the wall.

Exactly. And he didn't, he didn't get me not about our car car off of us for sure. Yeah, I don't know. That whole time that you were telling that story, I just thought of, I don't know if you've ever seen Not Another Teen Movie, where the poor innocent kid Just gets ripped in half. That was the first image that came to my mind.

Yeah, I mean, this is definitely one of those, like, it was put on a key for me, and the poor kid was just laid out. And my buddy John, John Cannon was our middle-wind back with a high school team, and he stood over the guy, like, sort of pumping his arms. It would probably would be looked at his poor sportsmanship, now, but, you know, now we're supposed to be concerned about the well-being of the other guy and all that.

But at the time, it was more of a dance. We're happy and we're celebrating. Oh, man. You know, somebody's parents were holding the camcorder and they're all screaming. It's on tape somewhere. It's not made it to the internet, actually. And the best twist on all this, by the way, Coach Belichick showed that clip in three meetings. He found it?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. This is an old thing. Many people have told this story other than me. But Bill was notorious at finding guys high school clips. And there was one where Wiggy, Jermaine Wiggins, did like a Statue of Liberty play as a quarterback kind of thing. Like he took the snap from center and he sposting where he was.

And Winky was like bigger than all the old, how many he was taken from center is a really funny looking clip. Bill was notorious for, you know, keep it light on that Saturday night, I think, or Saturday morning. the day before the game, where he would go back to people's high schools or something and dig up a clip on that same field himself didn't necessarily would have any staff go on top something. And I remember, you know, it wasn't my first year in New England, maybe that fourth, fifth or sixth year, a little late in. But we sat down in on a Saturday morning and for that

usually special thing you can start stuff and before the team meeting starts and Bill pops the clip up there. And Sue City North and South Sioux City in a raster up on the screen and Foxborough and you're just like, holy shit. world colliding. But the room won't wild. I mean, it was a funny clip. Don't let that guy find out.

He's going to start hunting down a little bit of the project now. We're improving his story. He should just be happy to be a partner. He's probably not listening to his podcast anyway. Yeah. Well, you never know. You never know. If he is,

he's going through sort of a bulk pack of it. Yeah. It's actually funny because you, in this season you have two punt returns I'm pretty sure when I was looking so you kind of brought that back up Ponsor kick oh no probably kicks because you know the kids yeah okay

I'm on the wedge so what's what that year really the next I don't think we did it every year I was there but Coach Westoff was big on you wanted an agile wet right so which is it sounds good in theory

but like you know I he's like I'm the captain he's you're going to be the middle of the wedge, and that way you can set it in front of the returner, which is always an issue of the wedge having the old distance from the returner. It can strip the time and the space and stuff like that and always had the,

usually had a real big effect on how well they went. But you're going to be the one to set it and we'll be faster to blocks because you can be better than not with some line on, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yes, but I'm 50, 60, 70 pounds wider than I'm going to get killed. They've got the 10-yard head stuff. Yeah, so there's a tradeoff here where

And the only thing I kept thinking, and it always stuck in my head is like, you know, I do this to practice. And man, you're just like shortening your neck every day. You do this stuff and every week. And it's like, I'm going to do this about a good, you know, five to eight and maybe nine times a game. There's going to be that's just outrageous T&T explosion in my head and shoulders and we're going to get through it. Let's just get through this, you know. But the way you kept thinking, I kept thinking of it anyway was, I wonder what I look like to me. Like if I was covering the kick and I saw a 250-pound guy at the middle of the wall.

wed. I kill them. I'd kill me. So, like, they have to look at me the same way. This is ridiculous. Like, I was able to do that to the heavy guys of 300-pounders because you just get so much of a run of them. But, man, and I'd be like, Mike, this is getting old, man. It's getting old really fast. And then they literally get rid of it like a year or two or three or one. They drop wedges altogether. I'm like, oh, great, great, great. It's always how it happens. Cool. All right, you boys have any more questions from out

or anything else? Burning. Well, I was going to ask who is your favorite teammate and why is it Troy Brown, but I think he already covered that. Yeah, I think we asked him that last time. Yeah, favorite team, man, it can't do that.

Just a lot of good ones. I'll say this every time some version of that question comes up. I think my now a little guy kind of reflective of career sort of frame of mind. My usual answer to that is just like, you know, I'm a kid that was 17 when I graduated high school, desperately wanted to go to the University of Iowa,

wasn't, took an official there, took an unofficial there, and was still not offered, broke my heart. So I'm going to the slightly smaller schools, University of South Dakota, don't get the big time, you know, scholarship thing. So I always kind of a chip on my shoulder. So it was like really the, long way in to get in the NFL. And the thing that I always kind of cling to how

freaking lucky I was, just look at who I played with as linebackers. Like, the rooms I was in are just, like, amazing. Like, Brian Cox was kind of with the tail end of his career, but Fife had played like 1450. So crazy number and was just a really well-respect of the guy around the league. Berwski's like college staff leader guy, and I knew all about him from, you know, some of the days of Arizona, the desert storm stuff. I think it was old about 94 at Ohio State, you know, all Big Ten guys. So I'm obviously a big fan and knew very much about him and his career. And Willie McGinnett, you know, one of the, he's basically like the Chivon Curse or, you know, name a guy.

You know, that's the freakish athlete of that particular class, you know, kind of a once-in-a-generation kind of body type. And then Ted Johnson is just this massive hammerhead guy. It's as hard as any one of the whole kind of thing. I mean, just, and then even Don Davis, Don's like a four, guys don't know this, but Don Davis was a legit sub four or five linebacker. Don could run. Don could absolutely. Well, didn't they have him play safety in that 2005 season when Rodney Harrison went down?

Yeah, yeah. So Don could fly. Well, he was a Tampa linebacker. Tampa, he came to work on the Fox and Tampa. Tampa always has a smaller, quicker guys. Don is. He's a buff guy. And then obviously is.

is just like was a legend and sort of team's world and get him from Miami and you know get the teammates with him

and become great friends and all that stuff like just like in retrospect it's like you you realize the room I was in years later

and and you know probably later and you know just I don't know super lucky like the room that I got the play in

for all those years was just was just really really fortunate so I feel like I kind of hit the lot of yeah no good

yeah if I have one question. It would just be, like, out of any of your teammates, like at least in the NFL, like, does that linebacker group, do you guys still kind of communicate, or any special teams guys,

you guys still stay in contact? Yeah, all the guys individually, and then some are some text groups, but I'm probably not, you know, I probably shouldn't say me wrong. So yeah. I get it. I will say this, though, and this is, I think a lot of the guys would echo this,

the ones that stayed around here, which, you know, I was like, Russ Hochstein and Patrick's past and Joey and... Yeah, they, Mancans and Hawkestein are coaches on my rival

high school team. Yeah, that's kind of a touchy subject, man. Oh, yeah. So, so they're, you know, Manchin's boy now at Feehan is going to O'Me.

And his other son is at URI, they're defensive events, which is kind of wow. Oh, wow. He didn't have, I guess I don't know, Kane. I think Kane is the name of his son now that said to Ole Miss. But he plays both ways. So maybe he shouldn't say that I'm assuming he's a defensive player.

But I don't think, oddly enough, and this kind of happens, that, you know, he doesn't have like a facsimile of himself, right? There's not like Logan having another giant farmhand-looking guy just beast at the O-line. He just, you know, and McFarra had different body-type kids that are really good athletes and play different positions. So my son is, you know, we're going through the recruiting process right now trying to see where he's going to go. He's a senior at KP and he's going to be a, you know, when it's all of a sudden then probably a six four or three hundred plus lineman king, which is wild.

Yeah. It's not my body. He got there by gaining something like 60 plus pounds between December and July of his senior season. So he wasn't on anyone's mapping all of a sudden he is. So I see that in that that's, that's. That's kind of why we cross that, right? So Logan and I coached against each other all through youth football. So he was coaching on North Outerboro, and his son and our son and my son would go against each other quite a bit.

As in the linemen guys both ways. So, yeah, Logan and now Russ with his son who was, I believe, a junior now, maybe even a sophomore. But up and coming. So it's kind of cool that we're all around and kind of, you know, coach our kids and having fun with it. But, yeah, there are a lot, though. I think the list is probably 10 or less of guys from that era that are still living in the area. So are you saying that you named your beefcake seasoning after your son? No.

You know, I'm trying to think of where, we have these arguments all the time. My wife and I about, you know, Life of Brian, you know, or smokes all the line. Life of Brian is always, obviously, from the Life of Brian, sort of an allusion to that. You guys are too young for that. But, you know. No, we're not. Did my pipe up, yeah. British.

Okay, my friend, okay, okay, there you go. Okay, so some get it, some don't. But I have that registered as a trademark. That thing is going to kill for us. And we're actually just put that. Life of Brian just went on Prime for Amazon. Okay. We'll start pushing a lot of that.

We're going to start coming out with some other flavors as well. But I love that stuff. But no, we, my wife and I have these arguments all the time, because I'm kind of a dork about Pond, obviously. So, you know, with the Life of Brian thing. And then we went with Goldbark. had a different name initially I think Gold Bark we nailed it

I'm glad we ended up settling there but for a while it was my old formula I used to call it Lina which I'm glad I didn't in the end because it was just sort of like it's kind of like Carolina but not really so when we take half the name it was kind of stupid but so I'm glad that it's I did the identical formula

that I had for years so Goldbark I'm glad that stuck but I don't remember who would take credit for that because my wife Well, again, she'll say, no, no, no, I, I added blankety of, like, you know, all our ingredients. Really? Pretty secretive, and, you know, we're in sort of that Worcestershire kind of thing where it's, like,

very deep and very complex, and all that's in there we don't want to give up. But we'll have these arguments, but, hey, who names this or that, or, hey, who put such and such ingredient in and what ratio, and we'll probably be having these arguments the rest of the real life. My wife does not take credit for any of my good ideas. That's what you had. I used to have a... The podcast is all his idea. I have nothing to do with that.

We're not on video here, so I'll turn... I used to own a crepe restaurant. I did this one at the bathroom, and I was going to start... trying to start this bastard crepe franchise. I had a patent for crepe fried. Any better than part of the cook, cut, and secondarily cooked, it's a mouthful. But I had, I mean, I went wild with the stupid pun. We had Southern PC...

both of this is a fun, but Southern PCP, which is each of thermal bacon, but, you know, sort of, I had one called Lando Calarizians. I land, excuse me, Ilando Calerzian. It was like a pineapple, macadamian, light chocolate thing. It was meant to be kind of a Pilemonie version that we had a, we had a timeshare in Maui, there's a place down there as a version of that, and we love. But George the Animal Heel, that was a Nutella caramel banana version. but no, this is like, if I could have one job in life, it would just be naming dumb shit.

Oh, hell, yeah. That's why I wouldn't, you know, start your own little production company. Nicknames, man. You want to join me in marketing. All right. Then you're over here, buddy. I have text change going with buddies from Bapton and from all walks of life where, okay, we're working on a breakfast sausage.

We need a name, guys. We need a name. Oh, yeah. This and this in it. And so these have been going on forever when I go. Come on, guys, hit me with something. I got a meeting next week. We need a name for blanking blank.

This is basically my day-to-day. We're getting them into Shaw's. That's a big step for you guys. Yeah, Shaw's and Big Wye. I've been flowing really well here, and we've got a lot of stuff. So I actually knew about the Shaw's thing a year ago. That deal was done in June of 20204. It fell in September of 25.

So that's how this goes. So I have two other things I can ask these today, which I can't do, because it won't happen for a year from that. That's kind of how this industry goes, I'm finding. So we're having fun, but it's growing enough to the point

where I don't have much of a social life other than a cage or a podcast. Go to my kids, that's about it. But keeping me busy, I'm having a great thing. Thanks for carving out of time to come chat again with us.

Reminis about some old football games. Yeah, you guys put it on me with one that I had no recollection of. So it's kind of fun for me to go back in and pull it out of the ball. Yeah, glad we could jog your memory. Cool. All right, well, thanks for having me on, guys. I think I got a bail.

All right. All right. Thank you. All right, Matt. Thank you, bye, bye, all right. All right, boys. A unique perspective, I guess, we could say. Yes.

Kind of almost unremarkable game otherwise, really. One that, again, like none of us remembered, and even Matt didn't remember until he watched the highlights. I did have a note in here. This game was boring. There's no explosive plays. And then like first off. It was that weird Jericho caught her bent over and half

and then bouncing back up and running for a touchdown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was the final score, Steve? Because we never say that. I don't remember 2417? 2417 Patriots.

It should have been 2717 and had that field goal blocked within two minutes. Oh, yeah. On the 20 yard line. You made it real tight at the end there. Yeah. But tighter than I need to be. But, you know, it was a good kind of opening salvo of the Belichick-Mangini rivalry that we will continue to watch evolve on the podcast. What's next week, Steve?

I don't know why you keep asking me this. I never know. That's the joke. The Denver Broncos, Mike Shanahan coming to town to New England and bringing his 2-1 Broncos team. So we'll see what happens next week on the Patriots Dynasty Park. podcast. So hell, Anna. Hey, oh, Anna. Turn in next week to see how much of a blubbering little bitch Greg is on the Patriots Dynasty podcast. Are we going to have to change that since Greg never shows up? Yeah. No, it's the best part is that like he's still there every week even though he's not. It's not. He's not even shown up as being a blubbering little bitch. Yeah.

It's so bad. Still fits.