PBD Podcast - “A Gallon of Vodka a Day” - Hunter Biden’s Baby Mother TELLS ALL | Lunden Roberts | PBD #428

Starting point is 00:00:00 You know he's there at this little after party and I find him in the back room and the people will never understand. I can sit here and tell you like what paraphernalia that's in front of him and what he's doing and how it just you know intrigues me. He'll go to the bathroom you know every 10-15 minutes like in public or if we're on the train or going somewhere. I don't think it was his bladder that took him to the bathroom. That off, yeah. That consumption, it just seems like, how? How are you still alive? Have you at all gotten a call from the president?

Starting point is 00:00:33 Jill and I only want what is best for all of our grandchildren, including Navy. I have not. I have not gotten anything. I don't feel like Conor ever felt like he got the love he deserved from anyone. And I feel like he was constantly looking for that in everyone. You're just thinking, I'm crazy. I know. I see the look on your face. So when I was first approached with the idea of interview on London Roberts and having her on the podcast, I was a little bit skeptical. She is the mother of Hunter Biden's daughter. They had a child together. They had a full-on one-year-plus-year relationship when the story became public and then eventually

Starting point is 00:01:17 DNA supported that this is actually Hunter Biden's daughter. I didn't know whether this was going to be a good idea or not. I watched a couple of her interviews. She seemed very reserved. I watched her interview with Megyn Kelly. And then eventually I said, you know what, let's give it a shot. Brought her down, sat down, spoke to her, and she started telling stories. She told a story of one time when they were hanging out together. There's a knock on the door. Door opens. Hunter's actually on drugs, totally messed up, opens the door, at the front of the door is President Joe Biden. And she explained the experience, what it was like when he came back into the room.

Starting point is 00:01:56 You have to see what she said about it. She broke down exactly how they met, how long they were together, intimate moments they had together, drugs, what the moment was like on how long they didn't speak and the first time around When she showed up surprising him at the deposition with a box that you're gonna have to see what's in the box There's gonna be a moment where you're gonna feel the pain of a mother wanting the daughter asking a question when am I gonna meet my father and She's explaining a video where Hunter is reading a eulogy and you're going to see this moment where, you know, the daughter is watching this video and I'm not even going

Starting point is 00:02:38 to spoil it for you, you have to watch it. This is not going to be what you expect this interview to be. This is not her trashing Hunter Biden Biden throwing the entire family under the bus. That is not what she did. She did not hold anything back, but your impression of why she thinks he is going through what she's going, he went through, will be different. And there was a picture that was brought up when she said, I always wondered about this picture that's been public about the day President Biden

Starting point is 00:03:05 was sworn in with the timing of it. It seems a little bit odd for me. Why would anybody do it at the time that he did it? You're going to have to watch it for yourself. And I hope this somehow, someway causes President Biden to invite his seventh grandchild to the White House or Delaware to actually meet because she does not deserve to live a life without ever meeting her grandfather. Whatever the son did, whatever the addictions he has, in this situation London didn't do anything wrong and President Biden's granddaughter Navy didn't do anything

Starting point is 00:03:42 wrong but we'll see what happened with it. If you haven't ordered it, we'll click on the link below to support it. However, having said that, enjoy this sit down with London Roberts. All right, so we have an interesting guest. I think that's qualified, right, to say an interesting guest with an interesting story. She just released a book. Let me pull up this book here. Rob, can you go back up to it? So Out of the Shadows, okay, this is coming out in two months. My Life Inside the Wild World of Hunter Biden, okay? And that's London Roberts. London, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Yes. Great to be here. Yes, it's great to have you. So obviously, you you for having me. Yes. It's great to be here.

Starting point is 00:04:45 Yes, it's great to have you. So obviously, you know, we've read about you. We follow the story. You know, we've kind of gone through, hey, are you going to claim or the DNA results going to come back? Is this real? Is this just the speculation? And then eventually DNA results come out. No, this is Hunter Biden's child, Navy. And then it even got to a point that I believe that the president had to respond on it. Respond to it last year, July 28, President Joe Biden made a statement acknowledging Navy, your daughter, his granddaughter, Hunter's daughter. Biden told people our son, Hunter, and Navy's mother, London, are working together to foster a relationship that is

Starting point is 00:05:26 the best interest of their daughter, preserving her privacy as much as possible going forward. This is not a political issue, it's a family matter. Jill and I only want what is best for our grandchildren, including Navy. So now everyone knows. It's no longer a conspiracy, it's a hit job, it's all this other stuff. Okay, so let's back up on how UN Hunter first met. Well, you know, I talk in the book about being invited to an after party with a friend who

Starting point is 00:05:58 was invited to an after party by someone you know she had met. And you know, you hear this name, Hunter Biden, but I talk about that time. I was out, I think. I talk about the vodka tonic breath. I wasn't in the best state. And I go- We've been there before, both of us. Yeah, many a time. And I go, not knowing who he is. And you know, he's there at this little after party, and I find him in the back room, and people will never understand.

Starting point is 00:06:32 I can sit here and tell you, like, what the paraphernalia that's in front of him and what he's doing and how it just, you know, intrigues me. And he's in these parrot box or briefs that are brightly colored, and you're just thinking I'm crazy. I know, I see the look on your face. In briefs. At a party. You say party, but it's only like there's a few people there just kind of hanging out having casual drinks. It's beautiful scenery. Does it look like something like that? No. It's not that. The scarf is too much. The scarf in that one is too much. The scarf. I'm just showing it. But it's more brief brief. He looks like he's going to thonk your...

Starting point is 00:07:05 It's more like the short. Yeah, got you. Okay. They're shorts, right? He's a little got some manners, at least first impression. You know, have a... Well, he didn't... I kind of barged in on him, you know.

Starting point is 00:07:13 He was in the back room by himself and I kind of barged in on him. I heard something and... I heard him say something, a bad word, and then I walk in. Yeah. And this is a house? No, it was at Rosemont Seneca. So it was the penthouse of the House of Sweden. So it was the... So what does this place look like, Rob? It was beautiful. Is it? Yeah. And it's like this glass cubicle building,

Starting point is 00:07:38 and the glass and everything had been imported from Sweden. And where is this at? This is in DC. It's on the waterfront. Oh, wow. Okay. In DC. I don't know if it's considered Georgetown area, but it's definitely on the waterfront. Beautiful place. How long ago was this?

Starting point is 00:07:54 When I met him? Yeah. In 2016? Okay, we're talking eight years ago. Yeah. Got it. And my daughter's, she'll be six in August. Oh, so the relationship went on for a while. It wasn't like it was just a,

Starting point is 00:08:08 you know, week or two weeks. Oh, no, yeah, but I talk about, you know, Hunter and his addiction and how he comes and he goes. That was part of, you know, and it's a quality and a trait that a lot of addicts have, you know, they show up randomly. And, you know, there'd be times he might be gone for two to three weeks and then pop back up. And I talk a funny story in the book for example is like he pops back up and he knew that like one of my favorite quotes is Not all who wonder are lost And he like comes in he's like look at my socks and he pulls his pants up and he has socks on that say not

Starting point is 00:08:39 All who wonder are lost and I said could have fooled me where the hell you been? who wander are lost. And I said, could have fooled me, where the hell you been? I thought you were lost for the last few weeks, you know, hadn't seen you. But yeah, that's how ... R. Is that the property? J. It is. R. Okay. J. And the top floor up there is where his office was. R. Okay. So now you're with, you go into the room, you're hearing say some curse words,

Starting point is 00:09:02 and then what happens there? Is everybody that's at the party, five, ten, fifteen, twenty people, what's the size of the... Kirsten Well, five to ten. Ritchie Okay, so a smaller group. Kirsten Yeah, and they're in the front, like, there's like when you walk in like the hallway and then there's like a conference room that goes out onto the balcony up there. And at night time it's lit up beautifully. It's like got this like gold, you see you see yeah like the amber lighting

Starting point is 00:09:25 it's beautiful and overlooks the Potomac and you can see like the Kennedy Center and the water gate all that. Now why are you there? Are you there because you're there to hang out? You're there to party? Yeah, so my friend had met a guy that night and he was going there and so she wanted to go but didn't want to go by herself. And so she just called me up and I go. Go in there to what? Go in there to just chill, just hang out, have a good time? Yeah. No motives.

Starting point is 00:09:52 Everybody had been out having drinks and just a place to chill. What time is this? Is this like 10 o'clock, 9 o'clock, midnight? It's probably midnight at 1. I mean, typically at midnight, if I'm going to a house, penthouse, you know, we're not going there to read books. You know what I'm saying? We're probably going to... No, everybody was drinking, just having a good time.

Starting point is 00:10:10 But it wasn't like no loud college party or nothing. What was the first impression he gave you? Was he charming, likable, flirtatious? What was he like? The first thing that like caught my eye was his eyes. He had the most beautiful eyes, but you know how they say, Shakespeare, is it, that says, the eyes are the window to the soul? And you can tell by looking at him, he's somebody who is... There's so much back

Starting point is 00:10:38 there, complex, I guess, you would say. And you can tell that. Is it pain? Is it childlike? Is it help me? Lauren Henry It was almost like pain. And I talk about, you know, throughout the book, like, I have this great empathy. It's probably a bad trait. But I felt it immediately looking into his eyes. And, you know, it was like, hey, you know, how are you? And he's like, instantly just starts talking, like he's known me forever. And we sat down and we engaged in conversation.

Starting point is 00:11:10 He's really easy to talk to. And so that was it. That was the first time, nothing happened first night? No. Okay. And conversation is about what? At this point, do you know who he is? Do you have an idea how important he is?

Starting point is 00:11:24 Well, we're sitting there talking, he introduces himself and he tells me his name and you know, he's, I talked throughout the book about how, you know, you assume people that use that amount of drugs and you see the pictures on the laptop and stuff, but he was like, almost like a banker as like organized as he had it set up. Like it wasn't. Like he had OCD with drugs. Everything was like compartmentalized and everything. Like it's not like.

Starting point is 00:11:52 So he's an organized drug user. He's a very structured systematic. He doesn't want the meth touching the coke. Like don't go near. You know what I mean? Like they can't touch each other. So but the conversation, did you know this is the former, because at the time, 2016, President Biden is a former vice president, right?

Starting point is 00:12:11 So it's not like he is in the limelight as much as he's been the last few years, because at least father's out of the limelight, etc., etc. Is he telling you, you know who my father is? Like is that the- No, it actually happened like midway through conversation. We had been talking, he's asking, he asked for my accent and then, you know, mocks it and he's laughing at it and stuff and I'm mocking his because I always say that he has like this high-pitched like twang that I guess it's

Starting point is 00:12:36 a Delaware accent. I don't know. But me and my friends used to joke with him all the time about his accent. But as we're sitting there talking, I'm in this chair and it has, it's like a wooden type chair and it has the arms kind of like this, but wooden, and there's a label on the side of it and it's like a gold label and it said Senator Barack Obama and it had like the years that he served in the Senate and I was like, is this Senator Barack Obama's chair? Is this the president's chair? And like, I stand up and I'm looking at it. And then it resonates, you know, who, who his father, how do you have this chair? You know, what's what, how did you get this? He's like, Oh, it was a gift. And he's kind of laughing it off, like

Starting point is 00:13:16 no big deal. And then when it resonates and I say, Oh my God, is that your dad? Like, do you know him? And he's like, yeah, that's my dad. And it was just as humble, and I Googled it, of course. I'm like, no, no way. And you know, it was. So your friend isn't like, hey, we're gonna go to this place and you're gonna meet Joe Biden's son. That's not what she said when you got-

Starting point is 00:13:38 No, we knew that there was somebody there of some form of importance. Well, you don't know who it was. We were also at the House of Sweden, so I didn't know if it was some- I got it and the front and the friend that your female friend that came with the guy was the guy in politics or in that world or he was just a successful guy or I can't tell you much about that person I don't know I don't know anything I think I don't even know how he was invited

Starting point is 00:13:58 because I didn't see I didn't see anybody really interact with honor other than me and my friend so now when when you guys leave, what's the next time you guys connect? Well, he gets my number from Kendall. Well, I think I changed names in the book. It's all good. Okay. So he gets my number and we actually have car trouble that next morning. And she calls the number to the party and it's him and he sends someone down like from this little there was a small

Starting point is 00:14:33 Mechanic shop not far and They came and fixed she had something with her battery They fixed it and then you know take off he comes down there and that's how you know, he ended up getting my number from her as we were talking but We talked on and off for you know like a week or two and then I see him again He comes I think he was out of town and then he comes back and we met up Good he asked you know if he could see me and So we met at

Starting point is 00:15:04 Well the house of Sweden outside. I didn't go in, he met me outside and we went to just like a little Georgetown bar. How was that? It was just like it was the first night. Like he, the waitress comes over, she talks and he's talking and he's engaging in conversation with her. He talks to her, something about her bracelet, and then I notice, you know, he wears

Starting point is 00:15:31 a, like a silver bracelet that's like a band, kind of like this, except it's wider. And I used to always think it looked like the What Would Jesus Do? fish emblem all the way around it. And so he tells her some story about it, but I got lost in the moment so I'm sitting here like she has no clue who he is like he doesn't come off as somebody of any importance or like my dad's the vice president or my dad well now the president you know he didn't come off that way and he's sitting there talking to this girl she has no clue who he is you know and and he just seems so humble. He seemed humble.

Starting point is 00:16:06 Yeah, you know, you would think he would seem like entitled, kind of arrogant. And I guess that's what a lot of people claim that they see through the media and stuff. And he did not come off that way. Maybe the wristband he had on that says WWJD, maybe it is, what would Joe do? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:21 Well, it doesn't say. Okay. It just, it looked like the fish emblem. What would Joe do? You know what I'm saying? Like his father would. Well, it doesn't say. Okay. It looks like the fish emblem. Maybe it is a J. What would Joe do? But going back to it, so the humble side. So you've seen a side that we've not seen. And just listening to, even in the first eight minutes, just listen to you, sounds like you

Starting point is 00:16:37 like him. This is a guy you like. I did. Sounds like he's a likable guy and you enjoyed your times with him. So you're actually attracted to him physically as well as personality wise at this point. It was. He seemed larger than life. You know, you're young, dumb, and naive. And I would never say that he took advantage of that. But he seemed larger than life, you know? So of course, as you're intrigued by that, or I was anyways.

Starting point is 00:17:13 So... Can I ask you a question, Matt? So is he, because I'm pretty sure you, because at the first time you saw him, he was doing drugs and there was drugs around him, paraphernalia. Do you think that personality, that talking, that personality that talking that hey look is that him being acting high number one and then number two is there Any security with him while he's going out at this time? This is 2016. He's just riding solo. Yeah, okay I need draw you think is he is he parting at all do you know if he's high when he's hanging out with you? Cuz I mean he was at the house

Starting point is 00:17:41 Well see he I talked throughout the book about how he'll go to the bathroom, you know, every 10-15 minutes like in public or if we're on the train or going somewhere, you know, whether it's Union Station or wherever we're at, you know, he'll go to the bathroom and then come back and, you know, I don't think it was his bladder that took him to the bathroom. That off. I think even one time you said, I want to say you said this in the book, where it's, you know, he at one point he used to go and, you know, drink a gallon of vodka a day, smoking crack cocaine frequently. There was days that he was doing it 15 to 20

Starting point is 00:18:22 minutes at a time. Wow. Gallon of vodka. Yeah, and that's crazy, right? That consumption, it just seems like, how? How are you still alive? And there were times we would talk about it and he would tell me, you know, I'll outlive you. I'll outlive you. Yeah, like he's telling you.

Starting point is 00:18:40 Yeah, like he's like, nothing can bring me down. So he feels he's untouchable. Well, at that time, you know, with all everything that he was consuming, he didn't feel like it was like he, but that was his deflection. He deflected a lot, you know, like when you, if you try to tell someone that they have an issue or they have a problem, he would deflect, avoid or deflect. Would you participate with them with the drugs or no? Was it mainly him?

Starting point is 00:19:03 Well, no, I talk about, you know, in the the book how I'm no saint and I was young and I partied a lot and drank a lot and tried a whole lot of things, but I never had an addictive personality. And so far, I think the only thing I've ever been addicted to is red flags. Red flags. Yeah. Red flag guys. Red flag men. Very interesting. So this time around, this is two weeks, he comes, he flag guys, red flag men. Very, very interesting. So, this time around, this is two weeks he comes, he helps out, he sends somebody to come help out your friend's battery in the car, get the number, and then you guys go

Starting point is 00:19:35 out to a bar, you're having a good conversation, he's talking to the waitress or the bartender, just having a small talk, he's wearing this bracelet, what would Joe Biden do, and then we're going through this whole thing. And at what point does it get intimate where it's actually a relationship, physical relationship? Just that day at the bar? Yes. Okay. We go to, I believe it was the Ritz Carlton in the Georgetown area. And we go there and I stay with him. He's got like this little open bar, you know, that comes with his room and we're just there talking. And I talk about how that was, you know,

Starting point is 00:20:16 my first hit of Hunter. Your first hit of Hunter, you say that in the book. That's the chapter name. How was the first hit of Hunter? Wait, are we talking about, what are we? Wait, are we talking about the date? How was the first hit with Hunter? Was it something where, because at this point, you know, is this guy a guy that's partied so hardcore? Because, you know, there's certain people that go through phases of partying. Some people don't graduate it. Some people do for the rest of their

Starting point is 00:20:44 lives and they can't stop partying, right? But you know, just like anything else, you party a lot, you become better at it. Was he fun? Did you have a good time with him? Oh, yeah, very fun. Very, very fun. But there was, you know, I don't feel like Hunter did it to party and to, you know, like not, didn't outgrow his party years or at Georgetown

Starting point is 00:21:05 or whatever. He did it, I think, to try to numb this hurt that he had and that he, you know, he'd lost Bo. He's been through tragedies in his life. And I think that he just had so much, I've read, and I know this is probably something you shouldn't do is ever read somebody's journal. But I read one time in his journal, you know, where he was talking about, um, it was in his office and it was the one of the days I had to clean, I was cleaning out his office at Rosemont Seneca. And, um, you know, you have to pick what, what do I think he'll want to keep, what I think he'll not want to keep.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And he, like, you know, adjourned and kept so much. And I flipped one open to see what it is. And of course, he's talking about, like, the mind and how it's, you know, an idle mind is the devil's workshop. And he goes on talking about that. And it made me think that, you know, a lot of times he did those things because there was just That I don't mind in the devil's workshop

Starting point is 00:22:14 Did he ever talk about his father with you would that come up or not at all like you know what he say You know did you ever ask the question? What's your relationship with your dad was there any talks about him? Well, I mean yes, and no like there were times You know there I don't know if y'all remember the memes that came out, you know, there was a bunch of memes when Joe and Obama were in office, and they had all like the, like their bromance memes and stuff, which we thought were funny. And, and me and mine and Hunter's mutual friends would like bring them up, like we'd be on his laptop, looking them up and laughing. And he, you know, he didn't think any of those were really funny. Sometimes he'd mock us and laugh, but he's like, he doesn't like to feel like his family's being made a mockery of.

Starting point is 00:22:54 Pete Was he protective of his father? Lauren I would say so. I would say, you know, I think that I would say, you know, I think that Hunter felt like a disappointment in a lot of ways to his family. And I think that bothered him really bad because he wanted to make his dad proud. And at one time he told me a story about like growing up, how, you know, like he was the kid that would get in trouble and Bo was like the saint. And they called him like general or chief or something like that or sheriff. They gave him some name like that that he talked about.

Starting point is 00:23:33 And he said that parents knew if their kids were with Bo, they would be doing the right thing. And he's like, and if they were me, they'd probably get in trouble. He would make little things like that that I think bothered him because I think that he He did want to do good, but I think he just had so many demons normally when you're in a situation like this You know half the time You're not looking for money. You're not looking for fame. You're not looking for any of that stuff You're you're not looking for any of that stuff. You're looking to be left alone

Starting point is 00:24:07 and you want somebody to have a conversation with where you feel safe, right? You want to talk to somebody. Did he ever feel that level of comfort with you where he spoke to you and opened up? Yes, but you know, I don't know, like I talk about our first kiss in the book and how, you know, his lips, they were so hard and it was like the shell, you know, like he had walls put up, I'm sure from everything that he's gone through and you know who his family is, you probably have to do that. But like, for example, Halle had told me one time that...

Starting point is 00:24:45 Pete Slauson Halle? Halle? Pete Slauson This is Bo's wife. Halle Yes. Pete Slauson Okay. Widow. Halle Yeah. Halle She had told me one time that, she's like, Hunter trusts you. Like, whatever it is, like, I don't know why, but like, he'll talk to you,

Starting point is 00:25:00 and he'll trust you, like, if you talk to him, him if you can and when she confided me and told me that she told me that that doesn't come easy like that's something that like hunter doesn't do i bet and so you know that was another reason when i got pregnant i felt like i'd let him down because you know it was this burden i became a problem to him and i was somebody that i felt and and other people felt like you know he could trust. Very interesting so from the first day you meet him upstairs in a penthouse to you getting pregnant what's the timeline there? Over a year. Over a year got it so and over the year how many encounters or how many times did you spend time with them? Oh, multiple.

Starting point is 00:25:46 10, 20, 50. I don't even know if I don't know if I could put a number on it. Lots. I mean, he would show up and he'd be there for, you know, three, four, five days. And then he might go ghost for three weeks. Maybe hours. And he might be there for three weeks. How many how many days would you say you spend with him? Days, if you were to say, in that one year? 50 days, 100 days? Somewhere between

Starting point is 00:26:12 there probably. Okay, that's a lot. That's a lot of days. So if he's traveling, he's coming back, he's coming back to you and you guys are together. And at this time, when you get, so a year later, you get pregnant. When you get pregnant at this point with the relationship, has he ever, you know, are you guys talking like he's, you're his girlfriend? What's the conversation like? How does he view you? How do you view him? Who are you to him? You know, that's difficult to explain. And that's something that, you know, I think reading the book is probably difficult to explain because Hunter and I had been seeing each other. And then a couple months later, you know, it comes out that he's dating his sister-in-law. And I was shocked. And it kind of hurt. I didn't know, you know, but I knew,

Starting point is 00:26:57 also knew that I probably wasn't the only, it's not like we were, you know, this official relationship or anything like that. We were just, I talk about being like detached from my feelings and you know that I had commitment phobia anyways, always have. And so it's difficult to explain, but like, like get off the phone, you know, I love you. I love you too. You know, like it was never, it was, it was that connection was there, but there was never no like boyfriend girlfriend, I kind of always knew after it came out in the tabloids, you know that

Starting point is 00:27:31 Him and Halle were in a relationship that it's it it seemed more of like an open Type relationship and it seemed more toxic like they were more on and off, too Now there's a media at this point know who you are or they still don't know who you are. Cause anybody following you, they're going. So how did he, as the son of a former vice president, how does he get around without people paparazzi coming or like, were you guys,

Starting point is 00:27:55 did you ever have a paparazzi moment with them or no? There was one time that we were on our way to a bar in Georgetown, we were walking. And I remember a guy like got his phone up and I didn't, I wasn't used to that. And so I didn't know that he was possibly taking a picture of Hunter. And I could tell that it bothered him. But that was nothing that I'd ever been aware of or, because I'm telling you, like he blends so well, like the time we'd go out to bars and he would just talk to people and people wouldn't know who he is. All he'd say, you know, is he's Hunter. Sometimes you tell him

Starting point is 00:28:27 he's Robert. Yeah. You know, like, so no, like there are people, he just blended. It's interesting that when, when, when the part where you say, you know, one day he told me, he said, Hey, I think you and Halle will get along. You'll like her a lot. You'll really like her. Was he kind of like insinuating that, Hey, maybe the three of us can, you'll like her a lot, you'll really like her. Was he kind of like insinuating that, hey, maybe the three of us can, you know, have some fun together? Was he suggesting that at all or no? You know, I don't know, that never happened. Okay. But what do you mean that never that he never said you would like Hallie or the three of you? No, no, no, the three of us, okay, that never happened. Something together, like a throuple. Some call it three, some throuple, whatever you want to call it.

Starting point is 00:29:06 Yeah, it happens every once in a while. So that never happened with the three of you. No, I've met her. But no, and I talk about through the book, you know, like from the outside looking in, like I even tried to, you know, be a mediator in one of their arguments. And it seemed, you know, it just seemed more toxic. It seemed like two people that had relied on each other during a really dark time and then just kind of had to ride that wave. Did you think at all it was weird that he is dating his, you know, dead brother's widow wife? When you say that, that's weird, right?

Starting point is 00:29:48 For sure. I mean, for sure. But young, dumb, naive, and I think that it was part of the Hunter package. It just seemed normal. But yeah, you say that. I know it sounds crazy. Did you meet her? So here's my question though. When you met her, did you know that that was his, like, were they already hooking up when you met her? Was it like, hey, this is my, this is Bo, my dead brother's widow, and they were already hooking up? Yeah, I met her after it had already come out in the media that they were seeing each other. Wow, okay. And, you know, he made it

Starting point is 00:30:24 seem to me like it was sort of an open relationship. And, you know, he made it seem to me like it was sort of an open relationship. And, you know, he also made me aware that, like, the media might have the wrong impression of what went down. And so, he kind of downplayed it. Pete Slauson Yeah, I mean, there's no, I don't think the media could, I mean, it is what it is. You're sleeping with your dead brother's wife. That's, I don't think the media could, I mean, it is what it is. You're sleeping with your dead brother's wife. That's I don't think there's any way to spin it anyway than what it is. It's a little weird. So, okay, so let's let's continue.

Starting point is 00:30:51 So you're, you find out you're pregnant. What do you do? You call him, you tell him we have to meet up, you text him. What, how, how did you tell him the news? Well, so first, I don't tell him for a while. I'm so scared. I'm nervous. Well, I say a while, but I mean, it's just like a couple weeks.

Starting point is 00:31:09 But I'm so nervous. And because you know, you have you hear all these conspiracy theories about how they feel about politics and how, you know, they'll make these scandals just disappear or something like that. And then I felt like I'd become a scandal. And so I was so scared to tell him because I knew him as hunt. So we all called him, you know, it was, but I talk in the book, I wasn't scared of hunt, I was scared of hunter Biden and his reaction, you know, as who his dad

Starting point is 00:31:39 is and taking all that into consideration because now I'm a scandal. So, um, it was tough. I didn't tell him at first and then I talk, I have complications, you know, and I think it was just stress induced complications early in the pregnancy. And I actually invite someone to my house to have a conversation.

Starting point is 00:32:00 And he is someone that I had met through mutual friends and he's actually, you know, a friend of Obama. And... Pete Slauson Well known person or no? Lauren Henry Well known in that area, maybe. Pete Slauson Okay. Lauren Henry Locally, probably not nationally. And, you know, I tell him I need to talk to him about something, I need some advice. And he's like, okay, because I trusted him.

Starting point is 00:32:26 And he said, okay, yeah, just come to the office. I was like, no, I can't be at the office. I don't want anything being reported. I didn't want to take that chance because you become paranoid. And so he came over to my house and was like, what's wrong? And I said, it was on his lunch break because he realized then that it was an emergency and he's like, okay, like send me your address, I'll be right

Starting point is 00:32:50 there. And so he comes in, he's like, okay, what's wrong? And I said, and I'll mind you, you know, he's an attorney, he actually went and studied at Harvard with Obama, knew the family, knew politics well. And so I said, I'm pregnant. And he just looked at me and he said, well, I assume I know who the father is. I said, yes. And he's like, well, at least it's not a Clinton. Wow, really? That's really the first thing he said. He said, well, at least it's not a Clinton. And he said the Bidens are known to, you know, embrace their family, love their family.

Starting point is 00:33:34 They're very family oriented. And he said it could be a good thing, you know, and people at that time that knew, knew Hunter knew his addictions, like maybe it could bring him out of this dark place. But it didn't. So meaning, if it is a Clinton, your life may be on the line type of a deal. Yeah, he said it jokingly, but I mean. Well, I mean, there's only one Clinton

Starting point is 00:33:55 you can get pregnant with. And no Chelsea can't get it done, right? So, okay. So he's telling you this. Is he at all getting to a point where asking you whether you want to keep the baby, whether you want to abort the baby, that conversation is not at all being had? No, I had not had that conversation yet. So I talked to him, this guy, this attorney, and then I also talked to, I call it our amoeba

Starting point is 00:34:24 pack and it was me and we had two other friends that we'd hang out with all the time with Hunter. I brought them around him a lot because I trusted them. And I talk about the friends that I would bring around him had to be people that I trusted because I didn't want them to go off and, you know, tell everyone about what he's suffering from and this demon on his back.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And so I tell my closest one, and of course she's just like, oh, oh my God. Like, you know, it's just, how did this, how did this, well, we all know how it happened, but at the same time, it's just like... Science. Right? You got to trust the science, is what she says. But why? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:02 And so it was a very confusing time. She tells me, she says, I'll go with you and I avoid him. I talked about the book, like I even avoid him and he even contacts her and my other friends like, what is going on? And so finally, I go see him and I'm like, okay, I'm going to tell him and I take my friend with me as backup she's like okay she's like I'll well I'll make the move to go to the bathroom and when I make that move like she's hung out with them so is this the same yeah date one or is it the same girl they get okay yes so she's safe he feels safer on yes okay yes and so we're all in there just talking and stuff and he mentions like, what's been going on? Like what's this big thing?

Starting point is 00:35:53 And she finds her cue like to go to the bathroom. She just like kind of looks at me and I don't know if you have, are you fans of like the Friends TV show at all? Sure, yeah. Okay, so big fan of that. We're not 40s so you know we we follow I mean he watched every episode so me too multiple times. Okay Okay, I always say that when I tell him it was a lot like when Rachel tells Ross that she's pregnant Okay, and it's like that just looks at yeah, he's gone. Yeah the what and he doesn't say anything and I'm just like

Starting point is 00:36:21 Yeah, the what? And he doesn't say anything and I'm just like, and it's yours, by the way, like if there's any question, but I'm just like gonna let you process that. And he's like, honey, I know it's mine, like, and goes into this, I know it's mine. I want you to know, you know, I respect whatever decision it is you make and I'll be there spiritually, financially, mentally, whatever it is. He's like, have you thought about this? Have you, you know, what do you want? And I told him, I was like, abortion would be something that would be off the table. And I said, the only reason I would ever

Starting point is 00:36:58 consider it would be because of who you are. And that's not, I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to live be because of who you are. And that's not, I wouldn't be able to live with myself for that. And he was totally okay with it. What do I need to do? What can I do? He's saying this to you. Yeah. And so, you know, it seemed that night was great. And then, you know, there were a few nights after, but it was, I start going and having these crazy amounts of ultrasounds done at Sneak A Peek because I'm like, this, it can't be real. Like even- You don't believe that this is really happening? No, like the night that I took the tests, like the next day or that next week whenever it opened,

Starting point is 00:37:41 I'd go to have an ultrasound done. So I'm like, this can't be right. There's no way God would put me in this situation. And I take my friend with me, my trusted friend, and she laughs to this day because the woman does the ultrasound and she tells me, shows me what's what and everything, and I'm like, are you sure? But are you sure? And she finally, she's offended. She's like, I've been doing this for 25 years. You're pregnant. Get out. But it just, it didn't seem real. And it was really hard for me to accept, I felt like. And I did a lot of that before I even met with him. So at this time, no weird friends being sent to have a conversation with you. You sure you want to do this?

Starting point is 00:38:29 Life's going to be very difficult. Do you want the scrutiny? Do you want the pressure? Is anybody, not Hunter, is anybody else trying to influence you to make a different decision? No. Nobody. No. You thought about it.

Starting point is 00:38:42 Where did you go? You just thought about it. No. You thought about it. Where did you go? You just thought about it. No. Like, I think about, you know, me and my friend having that discussion. We have a discussion one night in the car. Your friend? Well, and his friend.

Starting point is 00:38:53 The same one. Okay. The Barack Obama guy. No. The mutual friend. The girl. There was no... The one from the first night.

Starting point is 00:39:01 The two of you. Yeah. Just the two of her. Okay. Got it. The two of her, two of us. And we talk about it, and I kind of say the same thing that I said to him, abortion would be off the table for me. And the only way that that even comes to mind is because of who you are.

Starting point is 00:39:17 And I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did that. I couldn't do that. Now, when you've made this decision and he knows, from the first moment you meet him to getting pregnant, that's one year, from the moment you're getting pregnant you find out to tell on him is two weeks, you meet with the Barack Obama friend from Harvard, he tells you the Bidens are better than the Clintons, which is what a weird thing to say, but great. So he seems like a gentle guy that he's not trying to persuade you to do otherwise. Then you and your friend have a meeting, then you and your

Starting point is 00:39:47 friend go and tell him, then he says, I'll support you spiritually, financially, morally in every way. Then you go do the ultrasound, you piss off the nurse, she kicks you out. Well, I actually did the ultrasound like before I met with him. Okay. I did it like as soon as I found out, because I'm like, this can't be. And I've got all these tests laid out on the table that say positive and I'm like, no. Did anything with the relationship change gradually from you saying you're going to keep the baby? Was there still physical encounters or did it kind of like he's no longer available,

Starting point is 00:40:18 he no longer sees you as much or nothing's changed yet? No, we were still seeing each other. Okay, got it. You know, how the couple days and then I might not see him for a few and I'm texting him and you know, one of the times I saw him, I think when the relationship changed is when, you know, I told him he was staying in Annapolis at the time and I had told him that I would do a sneak peek to hear the baby, it was like the first time to hear the baby's heartbeat and he should be there. You know, you, you said you wanted to support me, right? And so I tell him and then my friend also, you know, Hey, don't

Starting point is 00:40:55 forget. Cause she had seen him. She had to go pick something up or something. And she seems like, Hey, don't forget. It's like tomorrow or it was the next day or might've been that morning. I can't remember. And I showed up and I listened to my baby's heartbeat and he never showed, never got a call, nothing. And then it was like just days later, you know, it was an apology and I know I was wrong and I'm just, you know, in a bad place and I'm so sorry, you know, excuses. And then did you, did he continue seeing or was a steady decline or was it a sudden decline it was it was a Steady decline at that moment probably for just a little bit and then it was nothing done So when is the last time you and him had a text exchange? Oh

Starting point is 00:41:38 What would be the date probably March I believe it's you oh I thought you were talking about during that time. Well, yeah, I mean, when it was a sudden done, like, is he at all not responding back to you to nothing? Oh, that was while I'm pregnant. That timeline, right? So find out I'm pregnant. It's like first week of January.

Starting point is 00:41:58 It's the steady decline. It would be March or April last I heard from him. Till today? No, not till today, just during that time. So from March, April, last time you hear from him, to you having the baby and actually delivering a baby, do you hear from him at all during that time? No, that's what I'm saying. From the March, April time that I spoke with him and talked with him to having the baby,

Starting point is 00:42:24 no communication. So 10 months, nothing. Yeah, so it's like six months, right him to having the baby, no communication. So, it's like six months, right? Give or take seven, eight months. So then, the baby is born, does he at all come to want to see the baby or not at all? No, there's no conversation with him. So from that March, April till today, you guys have never spoken, never texted, no phone call, nothing? No, not till today, but at that point like you know the baby's born

Starting point is 00:42:46 He is not he ran out of So when is the first time after the baby is born that he calls reaches out or wants to see the baby He doesn't until the child support dispute last year That was the first time I went I surprised him at his deposition You know you you have these you depositions, and I had done mine that week, and his was like on that Thursday or Friday. Well, it just happened to be Father's Day that weekend. So, I set my child down, and at this point, you know, she's four going on five, and she knows who her dad is. She doesn't quite understand why he's not there, but she sees other

Starting point is 00:43:26 children with a mom and a dad. And so, you know, I taught, in the book, I put all these stories about the moment I had to tell her about her dad, how she reacted, you know, the questions that, the hard questions that I had to answer to her. And the deposition, back to the deposition, I go, but a couple nights before I tell her, I say, and I don't tell her that he's coming to Arkansas, because how do you tell her? I've been making these excuses that, well, he just lives so far away and he's so busy. How do I tell her he's coming to Arkansas and I'm going to see him and you still never met him? And so, and you know, at this, I'm also also telling her you know, but he loves you from a distance I just I tell her that all that I instilled that in her and I had told her, you know how great he was

Starting point is 00:44:14 hands Because I don't want if if she hates him someday Or if she has any ill feelings towards him someday it will be because of him and not because of me. I won't do that to her. You don't give me those vibes at all. Like there is, I don't sense any vindictiveness or animosity towards him from the second you came to now, even off camera. You've been very straight up and sincere about how you feel about him. So now at this point when you guys are negotiating, when you guys are talking about the, what

Starting point is 00:44:48 do you call it, the child support, this is when you agreed to go from $20,000 a month to $5,000 a month, right? Yeah, so, mm-hmm, it was that deposition. It all changed that deposition when I showed up because I told Navy that, you know, I said, it's Father's Day weekend. If you want to make your dad something, I will, we'll send it to him. I didn't tell her I was going to personally. You didn't take Navy though.

Starting point is 00:45:09 You didn't, you didn't take Navy. I couldn't take her to a deposition. That would have been traumatic for her. Okay. So you go. Probably all of us at that point. No question. But more importantly, the child is, you know, it's going to be a bigger effect on her, of

Starting point is 00:45:21 course on everybody, but on her it'd be different because it's younger. It's going to be having an impression on her, of course on everybody, but on her it'd be different because it's younger. It's going to have an impression on her. So you see him, he doesn't know you're coming, deposition, what's his reaction when he sees you? Well, so I get there and I've got this box, I let Navy make him something. And she made him, like, she drew him a picture of him and her and they were as potato heads and I had to write as potato heads because they were both orange and I thought

Starting point is 00:45:52 this looks real similar to like Donald Trump and I don't want him to get the wrong impression so I want to let him know that these are potato heads and that's the color she chose. She has a good taste. And so I have to write it you know in the corner me and my dad as potato heads in quotation marks. So funny. And I gathered pictures of her from the first years, first five years of her life, almost five at the point. And I put it all in this big white box. And I walked in depositions, my attorney walks up to me before, you know, Hunter's in the back with his attorneys. And he says, Hunter had no clue you were coming. Like they, they're flustered. They don't know why you're here. And I was like, well What he doesn't know I guess he thought that I was there to listen to the deposition

Starting point is 00:46:31 But what he doesn't know was I was there just to give him that box I told my daughter that she could make him something for Father's Day and that was the first Engagement that she could ever have with her father and it meant the world to her to sit there and watch her She made him a bracelet you know and that itself I going to get that box to him one way or another. How old was she at the time? She was fixing to be five. Oh, so she remembers. You were at, you know, it's an age where it's an impress, you know, you can

Starting point is 00:46:57 communicate at this point, you can make stuff, you can do, I mean, my kid's doing that two and a half, let alone five years old. Okay, so what's his reaction when you give him the box? Well, he comes in the room and like I'm sitting there with my attorneys and they're telling me like they don't understand why you're there. Well, there was a couple of reasons I was there, the box. And then there were some things like, you know, it was made public that, you know, he had no recollection of me and things like that. And so there were some questions I wanted answered.

Starting point is 00:47:26 And I wanted my attorney to ask some of those questions. And I wanted to be there and have him sit across the table from me and say it to my face. And so I wanted to first give the box. So he comes in, he's like, hey, how are you doing? Good. Fine. And he sits down. And, you know, my attorney says, off the record, there's something my client wants to give, you know, Hunter. And I stand up and I remember, you know, this, I haven't talked to this man, I've seen him in court one time. And I remember thinking that he didn't look like the man that I once knew. And I said, call me Trump. Where's Hunter? That does not look like Hunter. That man that

Starting point is 00:48:13 I saw on court that day. And I of course avoided him, but I remember standing up with the box and my hands were shaking and my voice was shaking. And I told him, I said, this, this might not mean anything to you, but it means the world to our daughter. And that's why I'm here today to make sure that you get this. And I told him, I said, she's made you some things. I've also got pictures in there of her, of the first five years of her life. And I also have a bunch of videos.

Starting point is 00:48:43 I have a folder completely in my phone That's for HB, you know to send anytime if he wants videos anything from he's missed out on so much And she's absolutely spectacular. You have children, you know, it's it's it's You can't get that time back You can't get that time back. And so I wanted to do that for her. And I handed him the box and you can tell this look on his face. He's like confused.

Starting point is 00:49:12 Like, is this a trap? You know, like she's being nice. And he just gets it and he says, thank you. And then he sets it on the shelf behind him and I'm like, you're not even gonna open the damn door? So I got offended. I was mad. And then my attorney starts the deposition asking some tough questions.

Starting point is 00:49:32 And finally, Hunter, he just looks at me and he's like, can we talk? And I said, yes, I would be open to that. And I was actually texting my attorney beside me like, I'm ready to go. I'm really uncomfortable at this point. I'm open to that. And I was actually texting my attorney beside me like, I'm ready to go. I'm really uncomfortable at this point. I'm ready to go. She's like, you can walk out whenever, but stay right now. Because she felt like, I guess as an attorney, she sees that he might be getting flustered in his questions or whatever it was.

Starting point is 00:49:57 So then he asked to talk. And so we go to a room, just the two of us. And there was crying, there was laughing, there was, you know, we… Darrell Bock He's crying. Both of you guys are crying. Kirsten Kuhn Both. And as soon as I walk in, I talk about, like, he just embraced me in a hug.

Starting point is 00:50:18 And yeah, I just immediately started crying, saying, I've hated you. And that's something that's so hard because you see everything that your child deserves and she's not getting that. And it causes you to hate that other person. And at that time, I said, I've hated you, I've hated you for years. I said, this little girl, she prays for you every night. Do you know that? You know, this little girl asks about you every day. She'll come to me, mommy, what's my daddy's voice sound like? And you know what I do? I find your eulogy

Starting point is 00:50:57 that you give at your brother's funeral, where she can see love in her father. And that's what I showed her. And what's the tough part is, she watches it. And in the eulogy, he says, I love you, I love you, I love you. And that was what he heard after the tragedy, after the car accident, those words to him, I love you, I love you. And I'm watching my daughter watch this on an iPhone screen. And she says, I love you. I love you. And kisses the iPhone screen. And I'm going to have to sit there, you know, and try this huge lump in my throat trying to be strong for her and let her know, see, he's a man full of love. You know, and it, I want her to see the good in him. I do. I want her to see the good in him.

Starting point is 00:51:45 I do. I want her to know she comes from a good place and the possibilities that she has. And that was very tough for me because at the time, I hated him. I hated him for what he'd done to me, and I hated him for what he had done to our daughter. And that's the whole point of the book, because forgiveness is a burden that, you know, you hang on to. And if you don't forgive, whether they apologize or not, that burden's on you. And I had to forgive. And that day, that day when we sat in that room, and another thing I brought up, I told him, I said, my daughter spent a lot of time making you a Father's Day gift and you set it on the shelf behind you.

Starting point is 00:52:29 And he says, I was not about to open that box in front of your attorneys and be vulnerable in front of them. But again, this is about our child. And so he goes, he has him go get the box and they bring it through there. And we go through pictures and we're laughing at certain pictures of her and everything. Of course, he's seeing himself. She looks so much like him. Pete Slauson Eyes are the same. Lauren Ruffin Oh, same eyes. Absolutely. And mannerisms,

Starting point is 00:52:57 my friend that comes in, the mutual friend between the two of us, she'll come in twice a year. And she says, every time I come, I get PTSD. It's like you and Hunter going back and forth 24-7. But there was forgiveness given that day. And I remember we stayed in there for a long time. We went through that box, we talked about Navy, and I can remember him telling me as he was crying, you don't know the remorse and the guilt that I've lived with every day that she's been born. And I told him, you know, I know that you were in a bad place during that time. I get that. When do you make it right? At what point? You're sober now. You're standing in your truth. And you have a little girl in Arkansas that loves you, prays for you, talks about you.

Starting point is 00:53:49 You know, like, she'll tell you her grandfather is the president. Has she ever met him? No. Is she proud of him? She used to walk around and, you know, Arkansas has a lot of conservative people. My family has a lot of conservative people in it. And she would, I mean, she's always like dad says, she's born to be an attorney because she'll argue

Starting point is 00:54:09 with the wall. She'll argue with anybody. But you know, if there was anything about like the election that was going on, the campaign, she was what, two? And she's walking around saying no Trump, let's Joe baby. Like that's what she would say, let's Joe baby instead of let's go baby. And of course my family's all like, ha ha. Get her out of here. Get her out of the living room. She has supported him and his family from a distance and he's never known that. And all you know, I think that him and his family has seen was this toxic litigation around her, but that was, that was just me wanting him to take accountability for his child. That's it. I don't care. I, the night that my attorney, I talk about, you know, this story in the book, the night that my attorney called to tell me the child support and like

Starting point is 00:55:00 the amount, I was floored. I was fine with the temporary child support, which is less than what he's paying now. And he had to be at depositions, you know, that next morning during the paternity suit, you know, to settle the, and he didn't want to come answer my attorney's questions. So the night before his attorney's calling, like, how can we settle this right now? Of course, my attorney puts it off. Well, I'm actually having dinner with my kids. So I don't know if I get done in time, I'll call you back. But if not, I'll see you at eight o'clock in the morning.

Starting point is 00:55:34 And it was, I mean, I settled that night. And I would have never guessed that amount. I would have never came out and flat out asked for any amount. I can't tell you. I can remember my attorney asking, like, what amount are you okay with? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, what's normal? Any motive on the amount of money to ask for?

Starting point is 00:55:54 That's not even something you're thinking about. It was not. And I know people think that. And they think that that was the main reason. The entire reason was for accountability. But I talk about, you know, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but hell hath no greater fury than a woman or a mother

Starting point is 00:56:16 whose baby is being scorned. And that itself, was there anger in me at that time? A lot. So I didn't care. From that moment on until today, have you guys had communication? Has he seen a Navy again or no? Courtney From that moment on, we decided that, you know, he would engage with her in art. They could start like, start off doing like a Zoom call once a month.

Starting point is 00:56:42 She gets to pick out what painting and he'll send it to her and whatnot. And he believes the two most important things to him is art that got him out of that tough time, you know, and family. He said art and family is what got him through that tough time and that's what got him to recover, got him over that addiction. And so he said, what better way to get to know my daughter than through art? You know, it's helped me in other ways. And I'm all for it. That's great. That's wonderful. And so when we settled that day, I go home and it's Father's Day weekend. And Father's Day weekend, my daughter doesn't bring it up, but she's always, well, she hadn't, but she's always known Father's Day weekend, we celebrate Pappy, and that's my dad. And of course, Ben,

Starting point is 00:57:30 a great figure in her life, a male figure. She does have that. And we're both blessed with that. And I get to tell her that Father's Day, I said, hey, you know, today's Father's Day and we celebrate Pappy, you know, but I sent your gift to your daddy. And guess what? You know, you might not get to talk to him right away, but this Father's Day, you got your dad. I was like, and you're going to start getting to talk to him. Would you like that? And she's like, can I call him right now? And I'm like, whoa, moving a little quick. No, I said, we'll call when the time is ready. You know, let's, we're going to work out some details. Let us work that out. I said, but this Father's Day, you got your daddy. And that was just, I mean, the look on her face, just like the look on her face the first time she saw him on Zoom call. It's worth every penny, any amount of child support.

Starting point is 00:58:26 But you guys don't see each other, but he does a Zoom with her once a month. Yes, it started off once a month and then it became like every week and then sometimes a couple times a week. And you know, that's something that like I applauded him on. He would be, of course we all know, he had so much going on in Hunter Biden's world, always. But this time, there's a lot of things that he's having to take accountability for now. And he'll come out of like an attorney, a meeting with his attorneys or something, and just to FaceTime her for a little bit and let her know that he loves her.

Starting point is 00:59:03 And they've created that bond through Zoom. When you were writing this book, did you tell him, hey, Hunter, I'm writing a book? Did he know or no? He was surprised. That was the tough part. When we did our child support dispute last year, there was a question that was brought to me. Are you writing a book?

Starting point is 00:59:22 Are you? Do you have any? Makes sense. Lawyers are asking. Is he asking or the lawyers are asking it? The attorneys were asking like, are, you know, like sort of questions that, you know, come back and forth. And I said, I've not canceled that out because I feel like I have a right to tell my story

Starting point is 00:59:38 as Navy's mother. And I made that clear. But no, you know, at the time there was nothing in place. And, you know, once I started, I started getting a lot of messages and throughout all of it there were the hate messages and the people that hated me and disagree with me and that's completely fine. But then I started getting messages like women who have gone through similar situations, but it hasn't been in the public eye because it's not a political family or anything. And they talk about how, you know, my story inspired them and how now, you know, they fought for their child and now their child has a paternal side

Starting point is 01:00:18 and a maternal and like they're good influences in their life. And So it inspired me to tell my story because I think that there's a lot of women that find themselves in a situation when they get pregnant that they become a burden more of celebrating it. Oh, we're married, we've wanted kids. And then you also have those women that get pregnant and it's like, oh shit. And it's a good story for those women to know, you know, there's light at the other end of the tunnel. But writing the book, you know, you sign that clause

Starting point is 01:00:52 with your publishing agency and all that stuff that you can't tell people about it until a certain date. And so I wasn't able to tell Hunter until right before it was released. When? Like a couple months ago? Right before, yeah, has it been that long? I don't know. Whenever it was released to the media that I was writing about.

Starting point is 01:01:14 I was a few weeks ago. Okay, yeah, I think so. So then did he ask you, hey, can you send it to me for me to read it or not at all? No. They don't have the transcript, they haven't? Nope. Okay, got it. No, and- Are you at all worried about it when he reads it or all? No. They don't have the transcript? They haven't? No. Okay, got it.

Starting point is 01:01:26 No, and... Are you at all worried about it when he reads it or no? No. Not at all? No, I would... Your resolve? You know, my thing is, you know, I want him to know what I went through. And I mean, of course, I want everybody to know what I went through, right?

Starting point is 01:01:42 You're wanting to share your story, you want to help somebody, maybe impact someone's life, but I want everybody to know what I went through, right? You're wanting to share your story, you want to help somebody maybe impact someone's life. But I want him to know what I went through. And I want him to know the hard conversations that I've had with our daughter and how long it's taken me to forgive and how long it has taken because everyone says, you know, you give him so much grace. Well, it's been a long time coming because yeah, I've sat back and I've not said anything. And I've been a mother to our child and a father to our child. I've had to play both those roles. And there's been some hard times and some dark times that I talk about through the book. And I

Starting point is 01:02:19 was alone. And I understand that sometimes during my dark time, he was in a dark time too somewhere else. But he didn't show up for me. He didn't show up for a child for so long that no, this is a story, actually write a letter to Hunter. You've read the book. Did you read the book? No. Oh, there's actually a letter to Hunter. Did we take the book, Rob? I don't remember anybody sending me a book. No, they wanted us to sign an NDA before we got here. So yeah, we held off.

Starting point is 01:02:51 Okay. I end the book, you know, coming out of the shadows, and I write a letter to Hunter in there with forgiveness, a forgiveness letter. You know, like I said, whether there's an apology or there isn't, and we're just going to move past it like it never happened, that's not my burden to bear anymore. There has to be that forgiveness. So okay, by the way, I'm willing to bet thousands of men are watching this, who have maybe experienced something like this in a much lesser, you know, Hollywood script

Starting point is 01:03:26 type of way that Hunter Biden takes it to a level that he's the goat on what he's done in this area. And they're sitting there saying, man, I'd love for my baby mama to watch this, to learn a few things from you, because my baby mama didn't have this level of grace. Meaning, your level of grace you've given to Hunter, let me tell you. It is, I know I'm going to get text messages and calls and monects of people saying, wow, they were not expecting that level of grace from you. But let me ask you this. So, okay, you know, the love of a grandfather is different than the love of

Starting point is 01:04:03 a child. Like, the way you love your kids will be different than the way you love your friend, will be different than the way you love your wife or husband, then sibling. That's a different kind of love, right? Oh, absolutely. The love of a grandchild, I don't know what it is, but I see and I witnessed through my dad, or my mom, or through other grandparents, where it's kind of like that's your world. Have you at all gotten a call from the president to want to FaceTime with her, with Navy to speak to her and Jill, anybody have you gotten any calls? No, I have not. I have not gotten anything. But

Starting point is 01:04:37 I'll say this, the love of a grandparent is completely different. You know, I tell people all the time, my mother never picked me up from the dinner table and hugged me and kissed me and told me how proud she was because I finished my plate of noodles. She's never done that. She does it to Navy. And I'm just like. Hey, how about me?

Starting point is 01:04:58 Where was that? Where were you? So yeah, that love I think is completely different. And so many people tell me when they see pictures of Navier when they're around her, they're like, oh my gosh, like she looks so much like her father. And it's like, yeah, she does. And I embrace that. I get that.

Starting point is 01:05:17 But the love you have for your child. And then can you imagine your child having a child out there that looks so much like those years, you know, that you were looking at recently. And you don't want to call to meet or see or invite or just say, hey, would you mind coming to the White House? We just want to see. You've never gotten a call from the president to invite anything Well, who knows, you know, the one thing about life is you know Sometimes it takes time, you know because you you you may get a call this goes out there somebody sees it They're like, hey, we'd like to see you they invite you to the White House or they come and see the come and see Navy That would be that would be interesting to the average House or they come and see Navy, that would be interesting.

Starting point is 01:06:05 To the average person who doesn't know Hunter the way you know Hunter, like to the average person that, you know, politically, whether they're like, oh, you understand, I'm, you know, the president is this and Hunter is a drug addict and he's done this and he's ruined so many people's lives and there's strong opinions and emotions to him. What is your impression, not of Hunter, what is your impression of Hunter's father, okay? Where you're, you know, sometimes you're dating somebody and you meet a girl, you're like, oh my God, this girl's got a lot of problems. And you meet the parents, you're like, oh, no wonder's got a lot of problems and you meet the parents you're like oh no wonder you have a lot of problems I don't blame you these are who raised you right you meet a guy you're dating a guy

Starting point is 01:06:51 you're like wow this guy's very stable what how is he did I watch a 12 year old kid give a speech you thought this guy was a president at 12 years old and you meet the parents you're like okay I'm not surprised that this behavior is happening did you ever ask yourself saying, how did this guy become this kind of an, you know, addict? What did his father do? What did the family do to influence this behavior? And maybe from your end, what is your impression of Hunter's father? Well, I'll say this. To begin, you know, I always felt like Hunter was who he was because of the things that he had gone through. And I didn't ever think it was so much on his father's end. I thought it was more the tragedies that he had gone through with, you know, his

Starting point is 01:07:39 mother and Luz and Bo. I feel like those really impacted his life. And his father was sworn into the Senate by their hospital bed. You know that? I don't really know how I would feel about that. I don't know if, you know, he felt like, I don't feel like Hunter ever felt like he got the love he deserved from anyone. And I felt like he was constantly looking for that in everyone. And I talk about that throughout the book, you know, I feel like he yearned for some form of love, just like my daughter yearns for that love from her father. And so I always put it off on, Hunter was the person that he was because of the tragedies

Starting point is 01:08:25 that he had gone through. And that's more so of what I thought. And you asked what I thought of Joe as well. There's a story in the book. And I'm actually in, I'm in Wilmington with Hunter and we're at Bo's house together. And it's just us and one of my friends had one of my friends there but I talk about there was a knock at the door and Hunter for you know first he doesn't hear and I'm like Hunter someone just knocked on the door

Starting point is 01:09:00 he's like what someone's at the door and he's in the middle of his addiction. And he goes out there and I talk about how, you know, I go and I'm like peeking through this window, trying to see like who's out there, what's going on. And I can see, you know, Hunter's back is to me and it's Joe and he's looking at Hunter. And I'll never forget the look on his face. And it was such a look of

Starting point is 01:09:27 helplessness and hurt. Joe Biden. Yeah, because he's seeing his son in the state and you know, he had to know even though he's not like using right there in front of him, he knew what state he was in. And you know, there's I think Hunter has said several times how his family tried to step in and help so many times. They had a quick conversation out there and shortly after Hunter came in, you could tell he was affected by it.

Starting point is 01:09:55 He didn't want to let his dad down. But the look of hurt on Joe's face as he watched, and I don't know what Hunter was saying to him and I'm sure making up excuses or something. They had some sort of, they had something to do that day, some family thing that he had to be at and I was supposed to take one of his vehicles back to the Annapolis house. And I just, it was a short conversation, but I sit there just in awe of, of the look on his face. I wasn't a parent at the time also. I was pregnant at the time, but didn't know it and You know now looking back on that I Can't imagine you know you I see I've seen that painful look on his face where you know

Starting point is 01:10:40 He's hurting for his child, and there's nothing he can do because Hunter made that very clear during his addiction This is my addiction. There's nothing you can do to make me stop it. I'll quit when I want to quit and I Saw that look of hurt now. It really resonates because I I talk in the book, you know maybe gets a lot of hunters traits and Great ones, you know there He does have good traits. I promise. But one trait that I hope she never gets is that addiction that he battled. I never wanna have to look at her the way that

Starting point is 01:11:15 Joe looked at his son that day with that hurt and just feeling hopeless, helpless. You can't save him. This is a battle that he might not win. What did you mean when you said, swore into Senate by bedside? What did you mean by that? I know that if that tragedy had happened... Not with his first wife dying, that's what you're saying. Yes. And then Hunter and Bo were in the hospital And he was sworn into Senate by their bedside. I know that if that tragedy would have happened I Don't know if I'd have been able to be sworn in that day

Starting point is 01:11:58 Well, let me get this straight. So the joke that did Hunter tell you about this. Did he ever share? No, I've seen it It's been like on the internet or something. So he never brought it up to you? This is something that you've seen independently yourself? Yes. So what you're saying is, your wife, your bedside, your kids are there, and you're being sworn in instead of saying, give me some time to mourn before I do this. Is this the one you're talking about? Yeah And this this is who is in this picture right now rob

Starting point is 01:12:32 That's either hunter or bow right there on the bed. I believe and I think um, you know hunter I was I was actually told this as I wrote the book hunter didn't really talk about that time and Now he talked about his mother. There was a time, you know, we were on the train and I tell a story about how we're on his laptop and he shows me pictures of his mother. And one of them, it was such a candid picture of her

Starting point is 01:12:57 and she's like in this bathing suit and she's beautiful. And he was just, you know, mesmerized by it. And you know, you could tell that love for his mother. And I had heard, as I was writing the book, that picture always kind of bothered me because it's like you said, I would have probably taken that time off. So Rob, can you go back to read the details below? You had something, I'm curious to know what it says to us because I'm now curious. I've never seen this before.

Starting point is 01:13:27 Soon after Delaware Senator Joseph Biden was elected November 20, 1972, an automobile accident claimed the lives of his wife and infant daughter and put his two young sons in a hospital to allow him to remain at Children's Bedside. Secretary of Senate Francis Vallejo traveled to Wilmington to issue the oath of office to the new senator, a ceremony Vallejo recalled in his oral history interview. Your wife just died, your kids are in the hospital. Your wife and your daughter and your infant daughter's dead. His little girl just died. She was, I believe, nine months old. How many days prior to that event is this swearing take?

Starting point is 01:14:07 It had to be days, right? I'm not certain. I'm not certain, but they're still there. I have to know now, Rob. I have to know this now. So let me, yeah. She died December 7th, 18th, 1972. Well, that doesn't make any sense because this says was elected Oh elected November 1972

Starting point is 01:14:27 Let me see when he was actually sworn in when was he sworn in yeah, he died what exact date was Joseph Biden sworn into? Senate so you got to look what day because I look you see the pictures of them I mean photos I saw the ones in there hunter hunter was what? That happened 72 hunter would have been like like 2 and Bo would have been 3? That's tough. Well, January 5th, 1973, December 18th is two weeks later. So 12 days, 13 days, December 31st. So 18 days later, they're still at the hospital. You're being sworn in. You won November. And can you go back to the other picture, Rob?

Starting point is 01:15:15 Can you go back to the other picture? Yeah, can you go to that one? That's Hunter and Bo? Wow. Is that his leg broken? That's the leg in the sling? Yes, and I think I was told, actually as I was writing the book, I don't know this for certain, but I was told that Hunter suffered a traumatic brain injury. Hunter did? Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. They said that was some sort of public knowledge.

Starting point is 01:15:50 I did not know that until, you know, I was writing this book and one of the women that was kind of helping me organize things and whatnot. She said it's actually been found that Hunter suffered a traumatic brain injury at that time. And you know, that apparently has some some sort of way of leading people to addiction as well. He never talked about any of this stuff. Never. Got it. He never talked about the accident. I mean, you know, honestly, when you're at that level, I don't know if Hunter trusts anybody.

Starting point is 01:16:33 Right? Did he ever, did you ever see any of his friends where he's like, this is my guy that I trust no matter what. Like, was it Haley? Maybe I'm saying the name incorrectly. Was it another friend? Was it a relative? Did he have anybody that he 100% trusted? No, the only one friend that I've met a couple times was Devin Archer. time and he seemed, I don't know what, Devin was going through something at the time, just kind of seemed down Hunter was trying

Starting point is 01:17:13 to cheer him up. So Devin Archer was the only one that you feel Hunter trusted the most? I don't know, I don't know if I'd say trusted the most. I don't know. I know they were friends. That's how it was presented to me from Hunter. And when I met him, he seemed to, you know... And just for context, Devin is the one from Burisma Holdings. From April 2014 to October 2019, Archer and his business partner Hunter Biden served, if you go to the Wikipedia, served on the board of Burisma Holdings, one of the largest private natural gas producers in Ukraine. And this is the part when Hunter Biden was asked, Rob, you can pull this up, when he

Starting point is 01:17:59 was asked, if your father wasn't a vice president, do you believe you would have been sitting on the board? And he says, probably not. So this is also at a time where he's going through all this controversy when you guys are together. Did you ever have interactions with Devin or no? Yes. Was he, it seemed like a stand up guy?

Starting point is 01:18:15 I've seen Devin a couple of times. Yeah. I think, I don't remember the exact timeline as to when when I met him but you know he he was going through something and hunter was trying to cheer him up and He just he seemed to himself. He seemed Devin or hunter Devin, okay, and you know he seemed down About whatever was going on. You know remember the month. I don't was in 19 or 20 remember the month? I don't. Was it 19 or 20? The year? Yeah. Oh no, it would have been like, it would have been 2017. Oh, 17. So I mean this is the thick of things. This is, this is, this is when they're kind of, they're kind of going, is this it Rob? The clip of Hunter being asked if his father wasn't president. Can you play

Starting point is 01:19:02 this clip? Yeah. Okay, if you go for it. If not more. In the list you gave me of the reasons why you're on that board, you did not list the fact that you were the son of the vice president. Of course. Yeah. What role do you think that played? I think that it is impossible for me to be on any of the boards that I just mentioned

Starting point is 01:19:19 without saying that I'm the son of the vice president of the United States. You were paid $50,000 a month for your position. Look, I'm a private citizen. One thing that I don't have to do is sit here and open my kimono as it relates to how much money I make or make or did or didn't. But it's all been reported. If your last name wasn't Biden, do you think you would have been asked to be on the board of Barisma? I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:19:40 Probably not. I don't think that there's a lot of things that would have happened in my life that if my life wasn't fine. Part of it where he's like, you know... You know, this is a very... You seem very reasonable. You seem very resolve in the way you've made your decisions. You seem like you're at peace right now yourself, but you seem to have, you seem to understand Hunter's pain. And if I was somebody that's

Starting point is 01:20:17 watching this, I would say you're putting a little bit more of the responsibility on the Father. I may be wrong, but that's the feeling I'm getting am I off Putting more responsibility of his pain on his father. No, I would I Think it comes from everything you know That's not like the tragedies and everything that he's gone through losing bow and then you know that the picture that I brought up You know you asked about how I felt about that, not that situation, but how Joe handled or whatever. And I just, that I didn't understand. But I know that Hunter always, you know, he talked very highly of, there's a story in the book

Starting point is 01:21:01 and about, I think the chapters, like he meant well. And even though he battled addiction, he went out of his way to try to do good things for people. And like one night we're on the train to New York City and there's an elderly lady sitting in front of us, like, first I'll probably way too old to be traveling alone, especially at night time. It was like one of the last trains out that night. She sees us and he's looking up rental houses and stuff on his laptop and we're looking at them. He loved the colonial style houses. We were looking at them and sharing pictures and just talking and giving advice.

Starting point is 01:21:43 She turned around and asked what time it was and kind of a couple times when we would go back and forth, she would turn around and laugh at us. And she asked what time it was. And so Hunter engages in conversation with her and he's like, you know, what, what are you doing on a train this late? And you don't have a phone? You don't. She said, no, she said, my nephew with whom I've raised is dying of the same form of cancer that Bo had. Oh, wow. And she said, she didn't say that. She called it by name, but it's a, it's a, I don't know the exact name of it.

Starting point is 01:22:14 And she said, and I'm going, I'm going to see him and the family said, I don't have a phone. The family, she had somebody that was gonna pick her up at this train stop at the stoplight, outside the train stop stoplight in Newark, New Jersey. And Hunter instantly, I knew as soon as she said that, he instantly gets up, he walks past me, he goes and he sits at this lady, he hugs her,

Starting point is 01:22:39 he talks to her, he has that empathy for her. And he talks about the things that his brother struggled with during that, going through that her. And he talks about, you know, the things that his brother struggled with during that, going through, you know, that process. And he felt her pain. And he meant well, because he says, you know what, I'm going to get your stuff and I'll take you to that stop myself. I'll make sure you get to your family and blah, blah, blah. And I just sat there and he gets to the stop, Hunter gets her, he g things He says I'll be right back said okay, and he takes her to the stop And then he's the train takes off. I'm thinking oh god. He didn't make it back Well, he's running from like the front of the train. He makes it

Starting point is 01:23:16 He sits down he's out of breath and they come over the loudspeaker and they say next stop Newark, New Jersey and he's like He looks at me. I lost it. I started laughing. That's, Oh, you just put that old lady out on the wrong stoplight. He's like, Oh my God, he freaks out. Nobody's ever heard from her again. No, he freaks out. He runs to the front. He's like, we've got to stop this train. We've got to turn out. Like I have put an old lady at a stoplight. I've got to go back and get her.

Starting point is 01:23:48 And they're like, we can't stop the train. Like we're sorry. He gets off on the next stop, goes back and gets this woman. And instead of us, like we were going to go and go out to have a late dinner, maybe go out and do some things and come back. Instead, all of that is postponed. And I have to go to this loft that we're staying at by myself. He goes, takes care of this woman, puts her on the right stop. And mine, it's like, it's December, it was like snowing in New York. And then it finally, at one, two

Starting point is 01:24:18 o'clock in the morning, there's a knock on the door, and it's Hunter, and he's in his t-shirt. He also had given his jacket on the way back, he had given his jacket to a homeless man because he was cold, his cell phone was in it, Bo's dog tags were in it, and his wallet was in it. And he's just like, can't get it together. Well, I'm laughing because I think it's funny. And he's like, you need to call my phone. I said, well, honey, I've been trying to call your phone for the last three hours now homeless man hasn't answered me yet So he's not gonna answer But he did answer and eventually like throughout the night and then the next day, you know We get those dog tags back and the the phone whatnot that hunter even tells him says if you bring it to me

Starting point is 01:25:00 I'll get you can keep the phone. You can keep the wallet I just I want my brother's dog tags and he he does he gets them back. That family forgets stuff all the time. No, I mean, they forget stuff at the repair shops. So Pat, if you don't mind. So you said earlier about reading the a little bit of the journal, you kind of opened accidentally and you read it. And I don't know, you know, I don't want to find out what he wrote in it. That's yeah, that's that's that's all on you. But it seems to me from from from a father's point of view, we're talking about the father, and I get the trauma that Hunter went through,

Starting point is 01:25:30 and I can only imagine. I lost my dad, but I was 18, 19 years old, but losing a parent that young, losing a sister, going through all that, and obviously something with the father. He's getting sworn in at the thing. Ashley Biden, who was born obviously later on, I don't know if you paid attention, her diary was recently come out to be factual.

Starting point is 01:25:50 She left, I was trying to be funny, but it's true, they forget stuff everywhere. She left a diary at a friend's house, kind of like a renting out Airbnb, whatever. It was found and it's been public now and as she writes in there, a bunch of crazy stuff from her childhood, sexualized having this having that she wrote in the book this is in her diary her words that she showered with her father probably at inappropriate ages so I kind of seem I see a trend that's happening and it kind of is going back to the trauma and also with the father I don't know if you did you see any did you see any of that because this is a it's a fact I've heard some stuff about that but no I don't because I don't ever know like what

Starting point is 01:26:27 what's factual what isn't what's what's just being thrown out there what's being said so I've heard something about that but no not not the details. So you're reading the so when you his journal what you were reading was the current problems that he was going through or was this like past history old school? Like I don't know where you what were you open? I'll tell it was 97 So this is old school yeah He just wrote in there like some story his thoughts on things and you know his

Starting point is 01:27:00 At the time I can't remember exactly where it says that he was working at like as a lobbyist or something like that Mm-hmm, and he wasn't happy. He wasn't happy in life. And so there's a lot of sad stories. He just wasn't happy with himself Yeah, so I Really enjoyed this I had no idea I mean I thought this was gonna be a 45 minute to an hour interview This is just gonna be an hour and a half interview, but I've actually really enjoyed listening to Your story your experience and to the average listener. Would you say? Your your family you said earlier. They're more conservative right your family some I have

Starting point is 01:27:49 Yeah, okay, we don't discuss politics and your family Yeah, cuz it's just you know yeah We we made it we made it at this company if there's one thing we never discusses politics ever The fact that she said Trump we all were like we don't like to go there because it makes all of us very uncomfortable But we made an exception today just for you It's a very special moment Rob, can we make sure to put this book all over the place? And I'm gonna make the intro and I'm gonna make sure we support the book as well to be read because it's a direct experience from someone that is

Starting point is 01:28:23 sharing with the world things that we haven't directly had all we do is we read and we see stuff and also at the same time I'd love to I I would I would applaud the president for him to reach out to want to meet his beautiful I mean she is beautiful. Thank you. A granddaughter which by the way looks like the best of you and him but you see her father in her. You know if you're the grandfather and that's what your granddaughter looks like, all you have to do is we're sending a plane, come to the White House, we'd love to spend a couple hours with them or Delaware and then boom send you back home. It's not gonna be a big expense

Starting point is 01:29:09 and I think it would be very honorable to all grandfathers to see that even though this is a little bit embarrassing to the family, this events like this when get somebody to say you know what we got to move past this you got to give him credit he reached out he did that and now you know Navy can say, because the president may not have a long time to live, she'll always be able to say, I met my grandfather. And I think that's gonna mean a lot to her for many, many years to come. I applaud you. I appreciate you for coming out. Well, thank you. This was fantastic. Thank you so much, Gang. Please go support her and order the book. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

PBD Podcast - “A Gallon of Vodka a Day” - Hunter Biden’s Baby Mother TELLS ALL | Lunden Roberts | PBD #428

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