PBD Podcast - Charlie Kirk On Donald Trump's Indictment | Ep. 253 | Part 1

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David and Sam Seder will discuss: Could Islam Ever Take Over The World? The collapse of American value Twitter being a $250 billion company Donald Trump's indictment FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://minnect.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://valuetainment.com/academy/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Text: PODCAST to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠310.340.1132⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get added to the distribution list --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

I'm going to give you a moment and give you a minute. I still have some mistakes with you. So, this side is still a full-view. You can't do anything wrong with some sense of the life. You can't say it. You can't say it. You can't say it. You can't say it.

You can't say it. You can't say it. You can't say it. You can't say it. Tell me your judgment over there. That's what we do. 99% of the show is a. 99% of the show. 99% of the show.

You're the one percent. Anyway, hey, today's podcast. So, episode 253 with the one and only Charlie Kirk, if you know Charlie or you don't know Charlie, this is a man that's going to be a force to be reckoned with for decades and decades to come. Whether you love him or hate him, you're going to have to deal with him.

So, if you're watching this, because you watch a couple of our podcasts, and you to come. Whether you love them or hate them, you're gonna have to deal with them. So if you're watching this, because you watched a couple of our podcasts, and you come in here because you like to pull some of the guests that we bring, or you support them, this man's not going away. I had a chance to be at one of your fundraisers a couple months ago.

I watched you raise 41, I think was 40. I don't know the number. I thought of a 40 or 41 million dollars. There's a lot. In an hour and a half, and he is the founder of Turning Point USA, started it at 18 years old. It's grown into a bunch of different things that they're doing today.

You like confrontation, you like debate, you like banter, you like a good fight, you're a fighter, that's the feeling I get from you. So it's great to have you on podcast. I'm a big fan of yours, Patrick, so I love your channel, but more importantly, I love your story. And I love what you've created. You create a lot of value for a lot of people. I appreciate you. And we've had you, our guys have had you, had more to come. It's one of the most amazing things. I mean, it's hard to create things. It's hard to create big things.

It's hard to create big things over a long period of time. And you've made a lot of people wealthy and yourself wealthy because you earned it. And going to the event in Vegas, I think I did two, one remote one in person, just hearing their stories, unbelievable. I mean, these are people from every walk of life, every background, and they have purpose, and they have meaning, and they own their own business,

and they're doing really substantial things for themselves and their communities. So good on you. Yeah, thank you for that. So for the audience, by the way, we have a biz doc in the house as well. We just came out of two board meetings this morning, back to back, we have to run around like,

town, where are you? Says, I'm walking downstairs. I said downstairs is not $59.90. Anyways, you have to come over here. This Thursday we're gonna do a live podcast here. We're gonna cup 100 people. Giuliani will be here. Ruben will be here.

It'll be interesting. And then we got sauce cast here with us as well. Charlie, for people that don't know you, if you don't mind taking a moment and given a brief background of how Charlie became Charlie Kirk. Okay, well first I didn't go to college, so that's important in the biography. I've been doing this, it'll be 11 years in June, running Turning Point USA, which is now the largest organization of its kind in the entire conservative movement. My why, why I do what I do is to try to restore the promise of the American founding, to live

in a free society. We believe the Constitution is the greatest political document ever written. We believe America is the greatest nation ever to exist. And we believe we're failing to teach that to young people, which is one of the many reasons why our country's falling apart. And then I also host a national radio show every day, which I'm actually taking off today to help to be with you guys. And I just have a nice day off.

And then also a podcast, which is one of the top five conservative podcasts out there and do a lot on social media as well. So if I was in high school with you 14 years old, let's just say we're in 10th grade, 15 years old. Who was Charlie in 10th grade? I was very political then and also hyperactive so that hasn't changed. Eagle Scout, football captain, basketball captain. Didn't sit still well. I definitely would have been medicated if I was in high school today.

A ADHD, definitely. But I don't call it a gift, some call it a medical, you know, you have an issue. Lessing in a curse. That's right. So, but I try to channel it for the good. Good.

That's what I love about living in a free society that's increasingly less free, but you can make something of yourself in this country. Surely, I want to piggyback on something you said that I think was very powerful, and I don't want to just skip over it, because I believe you're 30. 29.

29. So, so you're going to be 30 this year? In October, yeah. Okay. Happy soon to be 30th birthday. Yeah, it's 30th. I highly anticipated. I think.

One of the things that is very disappointing to me as someone just loves America, left, right, up, down, is actually what you said about, you know about younger generation these days and their lack of patriotism and lack of appreciation for America. The stats are when it comes to polling, as far as love of country and patriotism, baby boomers and older, 73% love America, proud to be American. Gen X, 56%, millennials, 36%, Gen Z, which, I don't know if you're Gen Z or a millennial, you're a young millennial. Gen Z is far worse than we are, but we got our own problem too.

That's my point. 16% proud to be American. So Pat, completely hit the nail on the head, whether you love you or hate you, you're going to be around for the next 30, 50 plus years speaking to Gen Z. I got a Marchant opportunity, wouldn't you say Patrick? Exactly, you're gonna have blue ocean stride you got a growth opportunity, it's in to try to get people in a love country,

the people that are gonna be listening to you, Charlie, are not the boomers, I mean, they're 65, 75 plus, it's going to be the millennials in Gen Z, how do you get them to love America again and appreciate your message? Yeah, it's challenging. So I actually go to the target demographic themselves. I'm out of visit campuses, I speak with these students and kids and praise God. I mean, our campus tour this last semester was the most successful we ever had.

We actually couldn't find rooms big enough to fit all the students that one of the come to our events, which was great. And look, I have very strong political opinions. We can talk about that if you guys want. But the basic core argument of why we love America shouldn't be political, which is the American founding was an unbelievable, unique moment in human history, because it was reliant on some class

collabservations of human nature that made claims against tyranny and the pursuit of liberty, that believing not in sectarianism or tribalism, but instead in the individual and the dignity of the individual, that is, you can disagree at this, but the founders largely believe that it was made in the image of the divine, therefore there's worth and there's dignity of that person.

You don't have to accept that, but at least you can accept the idea that the individual is sovereign and matters. And then you build a system around that that has turned into the most amazing society ever to exist. And now we're deciding to end that. So to your point, two points. Yes, the younger generation has deep resentment for the nation because they're taught that in the government schools

and they're taught that in popular media. And secondly, they don't understand or they cannot properly articulate why this is the greatest nation ever to exist in the history of the world. And there's great reasons for it. It's my job to try to convince them and educate them. I'll be at 15 to 20 second sound bites with the attention span decreasing. But I believe, you know, my purpose is to try to make sure my daughter, who's seven months old, lives in a free society.

And we are currently heading in the wrong direction very quickly. Okay, so let's go with that. Let's go with that because, you know, a lot of people are following Tate. Tate became the most viral person on the internet. He and Manai were speaking when he got out of jail and they're now on house arrest

and we're having a conversation about some of the things that's going on. He went from, evolved from being a guy that was an atheist as a young guy coming up. Yeah. Then he started seeing what the Christian, you know, Christian denomination was doing and what they stood for some These are interesting principles kind of welcome that then he

partially lost respect in the Christian religion the denomination that started compromising and saying yeah We'll accept this we'll accept that we'll accept this what about this and he says the only religion that seems to not Break when it comes on onto their values as Muslim, and then he wanna became a Muslim, and that's what he supports. Now, that may be extreme to you, but the part that when I talk to a lot of the youngins who are following him and following what he's saying,

that argument is a good argument to say if you are gonna be conservative, if you are gonna be a Christian, if you are going to be a Christian, well your church is starting to say yeah it's okay, Pope, it's okay you can come in as long as you bring money you can come in, you can come in versus the Muslim saying hey you can't. So what do you say to the criticism the West is getting by a lot of people saying the West is no longer what it once was and it's past the tipping point meaning there's no longer a saving of the West is no longer what it once was, and it's past the tipping point, meaning there's no longer a saving of the West.

What do you say to that? The first part, you're probably right. I mean, we're in a complete terminal decline. And it's hard to disagree with that. A moral decline, economic decline, financial decline, fiscal decline. I don't think we're past the tipping point to the Andrew Tate part.

I think that's a bad reason to convert to Islam. I don't think there's a the tipping point to the Andrew Tate part. I think that's a bad reason to convert Islam. I don't think that's a good reason to convert Islam, but because there's plenty of uncompromising Christian churches. But generally, yes, it is true that a lot of Christian denominations are becoming more like the world and not following the word. Happy to talk more about that if you want. But that is the question. Where is the West? And you kind of have to take a pulse?

There's plenty of reasons for optimism. I'm seeing a kind of renewed sense of patriotism and certain sex. I'm seeing what we're doing at Turning Point, USA. I'm seeing parents get more involved in school boards. At the same time, we're living through it in Nietzsche predicted in the 1860s, 1870s, and 1880s where he did not proclaim it, but he stated God is dead.

And again, it's misquoted because people think he was celebrating the death of God. He was not. What he was saying is that, hey, you in the West, if you are going to replace God with consumerism and the industrial revolution and hyper individualism, be careful what's gonna take its place. And we're kind of living through the kind of mixture of synthetic worldviews that take its place when Christianity

or a cogent Western morality deteriorates. So what do I say to the compromising Christians? I'll stop compromising. And then I wouldn't also necessarily say that Islam is attractive as a substitute of that, but I'm happy to explore that. It's not about the substitute of that, because there's some stats we looked at a couple months ago

on a podcast. We had this guy that was talking about how underpopulation is the problem, not overpopulation, how the world can handle it. And then we looked up the numbers on the podcast and we saw, I'm gonna be wrong by a couple of percentage points, but pretty close within a couple of percentage points, out of a hundred people that are born in the world, 33 were Christians, 31 were Muslims.

But out of a hundred people that die in the world, 32 were Christians, only 10 were Muslims. But out of 100 people that die in the world, 32 were Christians, only 10 were Muslims. Which means the young, you know, Muslims are having more kids and they're a lot younger, which means by 2035, the world will be led by Muslims having more Muslims in the world than Christians. And why do you think that message? Because a lot of times you see that message

and all you think about as well. The first thing we think about is also Muslim extremists. I mean, every Muslim is a Muslim extremist, which is not, it's a smaller sect of the majority. But if the messaging, what are they doing that their messaging is more attractive or NBA players, football players, Hollywood, some people are starting to say,

well, I'm kind of going to lean towards this than Christianity today. I don't think we have to speculate. I don't know if you have Cache's clay up there, which was his name before Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul Jibbar. We do, we actually got Cache's clay up there. Yeah, the idea of men.

Dave Chappelle, by the way. Yeah, Dave Chappelle, is he a Muslim? I must say. Is that right? I didn't know that. Tyson. Tyson. Yeah, the idea, especially Shipp, is he a Muslim? Is that right? I didn't know that. Tyson. What? Tyson.

Yeah, the idea, especially black men, being drawn to the Muslim faith is not new because it really does, it's unapologetic in the patriarchy, right? So in a hyper feminist world, it seems attractive. And again, Malcolm X wrote extensively about this. I mean, I don't subscribe to a lot of the appeal of it, because Islam is not true in my worldview, but we could discuss that.

I don't think it's actually useful of our time today. But you're hitting on something really important, Patrick, in a world that has gone mad and chaos people, you're in for order. Now, you could be too far in the order direction, which I think Islam goes too far. I do not want to live in a theocratic fascist country. I like having freedom of speech.

I like having dialogue. I like private property rights. I like entrepreneurship. That's why I think the West is the best, because you balance order with spontaneity and unpredictability. If you just want order, you can live in Saudi Arabia, but that's not a free society. And but I think the West has gone way too far away from having order as a bedrock principle. But the founders tried to establish in the constitution,

especially because of the world that they built it in, is how do we have liberty, but also we have the rootedness of eternal wisdom, so that liberty does not become licentiousness. And that's exactly what we're living through. Is that it's no longer the pursuit of what is good, it's the pursuit of what makes me feel good. And those are two different things.

So people like Tate, or people previously in the 60s or 70s, I mean you could list a lot of people that convert to Islam because it's very attractive because the strong man archetype is not just President Islam, it is demanded in Islam that the man is the not just the head of the home, the head of the society, and so it's very attractive in a world that's gone mad. I think that's the wrong answer to be just to be clear, but I can understand why certain people would be gravitated towards it. So who would you say today is the most famous non-pastor Christian in the world that's getting others to say, I also want to be a Christian. I don't mean Joel Osteen. I don't mean if you go to some of the big pastors that we have, I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about a guy that's in Hollywood, that's in the NBA, that's in the MLB, that's in music. Who are some of the biggest ones that are converting? That are converting? Yeah, I mean, maybe Tim T. Bo, but he's not exactly as successful, but you're pinpointing something really powerful here, which I totally agree with. First of all, if you find, I mean, Justin Bieber is not exactly someone I would consider theologically sound, right?

But at least he says good things about Jesus. But the Christian world is lacking in the cultural figures that embrace the worldview, whereas in the 50s or 60s, you had John Wayne. You had every major act, not every, but you had Joe Demagio. You had before that Babe Ruth that were outspoken Christians and now you look in the world It's either secularism or just kind of as agnosticism and any Christian celebrity that might be outspoken They have to always preface it with social liberalism. I would say maybe Mark Walberg He's gonna say Walberg. You saw what he did on I think that's beautiful

What's done with you know, with the Catholic faith. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it.

I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it.

I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. I'm going with this is the following. Is so, so we're as a lot of people who are Christians will go and they'll go in a community that's safe and they'll talk to one another where it's a safe place. Whereas Muslims will go out there and they'll baptize and they'll convert. Where you know if you look at the tool and you'll say, well, one is staying quiet about it,

the other one's being bold about it. One is advertising why he is, the other one is not. But at the same time, the media will defend Muslim, but the media will not defend Christianity. The sports teams will say, hey, you have to be a little bit more understanding about the Muslim religion, but Christianity, they can get shots.

So how did that happen? The evolution of where Christianity went, say, hey, you have to be a little bit more understanding about the Muslim religion, but Christianity that can get shots. So how did that happen? The evolution of where Christianity went, hey, Judeo Christian, the great nation, America, look at the values and principles that we have, where did the fall happen? Boy, that's a powerful question. It's hard to pinpoint a certain year, but there are certainly an era. In the 60s or 70s, these revolutionaries took control of a lot of institutions, and the zeitgeist, the spirit of the times, got perverted and changed. I encourage anybody

to find me a Netflix, Amazon, or Hulu documentary, or film in the last 10 years that portrays someone that is a Christian and a positive light. And in fact, this was pinpointed recently. I can't remember who. An actor came out and he said, hey guys, why is it the pastor always has to be like the abuser or the imbezzler? Or the, and you think about the archetype, right? The archetype is if you see a Bible in an Amazon film, you must can assure that that person is gonna be a villain

or at the very least a hypocrite. Rarely is that the person that is going to be acting ethically, acting morally, and that's a complete change. And it's done rather subversively, right, in our culture. And so, but here's the thing, kind of the post-60s worldview, the moral view that came in in the post-60s, and it didn't really set in until now. It took 60 years, is hyper individualism.

And I'm all for entrepreneurship and for people to succeed, but you must balance that. You must counterbalance it with duty and obligations. If it's all about just the pursuit of your own pleasures and your own delights, you will be not just empty. I think you're going to be miserable. And so we build an entire society, I think, on this very dangerous moral pretext. And we wonder why we have the most depressed suicidal, anxious generation in history. I totally sympathize

with every accusation of American Christianity that you could imagine. They could be hypocritical. Their churches are too big. They don't give enough to the poor. Think some of that is a little silly. But it is a fact that as we have turned our back on American Christianity with the roots of it, that we are less free, we are more confused, and we are filling it with these other fake religions that we could talk about, the religion of anti-racism, the religion of scientism, right?

Even earth worship at times, which is hyper, you know, the warmen. Yeah, environmentalism. And so there's a great book by Tom Holland. He calls it dominion. It's not a great title, but he, it's Holland with an e. But yeah, it's how Christians remade revolutionize the world. I encourage everyone to read it.

And he's actually a secular agnostic who argues that what we consider to be common sense, what we consider to be normal, is a traditional inheritance from the Christian history. And you might not like Christianity, you might not believe Jesus as the king of the world, I do. But you should at least accept that if you remove Christianity as the bedrock of your civilization, be careful what you fill it with, because currently we're filling it with garbage. Yeah, so a couple of things based on what you just said. One, I saw Andrew Schultz the other day. You know Andrew Schultz the comedian,

I don't know if you're familiar with Andrew Schultz. Yeah, to me, I think he's one of the most talented comedians. I can watch his clips on replay, and the guy makes me laugh over and over again. There's only a couple of guys that make me do that. I've probably seen his clips. You know who he is. He's incredible. He said the other day he went to church. Yeah, yeah, he's great. And he says he went to church the other day. He says in the first three minutes of being in church, he started crying. That's not

his brand at all. Andrew Schultz's brand is not too safe. This wasn't a joke. No, this was not a joke. He was being serious about it, right? Now, if you go to the Justin Bieber story and we can go to Hillsdale, not Hillsdale, but Hillsong and all that stuff, I saw it first time. I saw a lot of it. Yeah, so a lot of that, the challenge then becomes also to say,

sometimes it's overly judgmental on who's gonna be the Christian to help bring the brand and you know bring others towards it There's a challenge with that as well, but you know for me I saw Wall Street Journal's article recently came out with values. I'm sure you saw that as well Yeah, the collapse of the American values patriotism That's right. That's right. Having children and going to church have just descended in meaning but money is up money is up Yeah, and that's that hyper individualism. That's what you were talking about, yeah.

And again, I am a capitalist. I think that markets work. But they must be in harmony with other duties that make the money meaningful. Otherwise, it's just nothing more than pleasure or things that will road and dust. So it must point towards something. You must aim high.

That was the Western ideal, right? And that's why the declaration is such a beautiful document. It mentions God four times. And in fact, in the end of the declaration, it's basically a prayer. We don't teach this to our kids. It's an appeal. It says, we appeal to the supreme judge of the world.

And they're pointing high to something larger than themselves. It's very platonic to use a phrase that was earlier that there's things that we can't quite feel that cannot be looked at in a you know cannot be looked at in a microscope, but we know they're real, we know love, we know justice, we know mercy, we know kindness, we know compassion is real, and in fact we need to build a society around that. With the postmodernists and the poststructuralists have done post-1960s, is they basically say if it's not material, if you can't see it and cause an effect, it's not real. And that's a tragedy to believe. And so, yes, the byproduct to that is, so you have two things happening at once. America pulls back from its values that wants to find

it. Can you go to the chart? It's very powerful. But then they kind of buried the lead. In fact, they didn't incorporate it, which I just want to reiterate. It is a fact that we are the most depressed, most suicidal, most anxious, most medicated, most alcohol addicted in history. Now you might say, well, Charlie, it's causation and correlation.

Hard to say that they aren't connected. Hard to say that if patriotism, religion, community involvement, having kids collapses, and all the negative indicator skyrocket, that there isn't some sort of relationship there. What, Tom, what do you think needs to happen for a man to get on his knees and say, I need God?

What do you think needs to happen for that to take place to a nation? Great crisis builds great response in the heart of any man. After 9-11 you saw the unification of America in an amazing way. Because whenever you have a great crisis, you will inherently point back to a great tenant or a great truth. And what happened on 9-11, the great truth was nobody messes with the greatest country in the world, and I'm part of that, and I'm proud to be part of that. And I'm coming together with my neighbors, and I'm country in the world and I'm part of that and I'm proud to be part of that and I'm coming together with my neighbors and I'm upset about this

and I'm healing together and I'm mourning together and I'm angry together. Together, the word together keeps coming. And the age of moral relativism as we see here, everybody's truth is okay. So starting in 1968, 69, if you were to study that, there were about four things that came together that make it very understandable for a crack in the heart of the populace in the population. One is, you know, you have the death of Bobby Kennedy, the death of Martin Luther King. You've got the summer of love, you've got the senseless, the people that believe the senseless sending the war of our young men, if you didn't get into college, going to war tough, you know, if you manage to get into college, oh, so if your family gets into college, you don't have to go to war. Well, you know, talk to Al Gore and W about that.

They both took advantage of that privilege to stay out of the war. And there was this crack that happened there. He had the loss of these leaders. He had the, also the loss of faith in the elders of the time because what was happening there, and the great summer of love, where everybody thought, well, then all your truths will be okay. That was well intended, but what happened in the middle of that is, if everybody's truth

is okay, PBD, then there's no one ruler for standard for morals. There's no one ruler for standards of what is patriotism, what is faith in America, or what is good, or what do we do for our community. And suddenly, everybody's truth is okay, and you can't judge me. It becomes the boomerang that comes back. The unintended consequences is you lose control of the whole thing.

And so, I think great crisis is needed what will bring America back together. And unfortunately, great crisis are usually very painful in their own right. Can I say? Of course. I didn't even think about the college enrollment draft thing

prior. The issue, though, Patrick, is that if you have moral chaos, tyranny comes next. And there's a totalitarian impulse that is running through our country. We call it identity politics, political correctness, is that the answer to this will not be more freedom or more liberty in the short term. It's that we're going to need instruments of meaning.

So then we're going to need somebody to tell you what to do, which is one of the reasons why I think this COVID-19 fascism was accepted by so many Americans for so long. And so you get strong leaders, quote unquote strong leaders, if the moral fiber of your country decays. If I can just add to that, I believe everything you're saying is accurate. I also think that there's sort of a messaging problem because you talked about the Joel Osteens of the world, or even

the Mark Wahlbergs of the world, who do you think is more likely to convert the everyday person to love America and if you're got to get a Joel Osteen or a Mark Wahlberg type? I would argue that you need this in the pop culture zeitgeist. It's not going to take a religious leader or some sort of a puzzle that's going to convert everyday Americans to sort of loving Americans again or go to church more often. It's not going to be a religious leader. You see the fastest growing religion in America these days is atheism and agnosticism, right? Non-denominational or just non-believer.

So we need to kind of like what you're saying. We need to make loving America again and American values and Judeo-Christian-Values pop culture and cool again and until that's done I think we're gonna have the same conversation for years in Houston My argument is that the American founding is the great rallying point I think that it's so beautiful. It's so exceptional It's so rare in human history, and it also I think people yearn

to actually love the place they live in. I know that's an unusual thing to say. I think people actually want an excuse to love America, and so I think the promise of the founding can be that great unifying. That you could disagree on tax policy, disagreeing immigration, but let's at least agree that these founders were

on to something very big, bold, and beautiful, and were recipients from. And then understand what that is, we've got a real conversation about that. If I can give you one thing, but that, if that's the answer, which it might, may or may or may not be. Okay, which it is. So, you remember the movie, The Patriot? Yeah, with Mel Gibson. By the way, is a Christian that would be put on the East East East.

Okay, I mean, talk about a movie. Or someone who has a toolmaps to pass into the Christ. Yeah, well, he Mel Gibson by the way is a Christian that would be put on a piece. I mean talk about Someone have a toolm after passion to the Christ. Yeah, well, he's doing number two now But that movie I don't know if that proceeded passion in the Christ It was all before and Braveheart are you kidding me? Yeah, but that guy made loving America and fighting for America cool and in the pop culture So it's gonna take something like that kind of what I was saying in the pop culture. So it's gonna take something like that, kind of what I was saying, in the pop culture, to make young Americans, Gen Z, 16% is not proud to be American, you're not gonna get them

to start loving America by saying, hey, read the Declaration of Independence, buddy. I acknowledge that. I'm not even, trust me, try to get them to read the preamble to the Constitution. Let alone the first paragraph of one of the course human events comes necessary when people that dissolve the political bands that have time to do another.

To get them to even read that, what does that even mean? I'm talking about the eternal compelling truth behind it, right? That maybe. And if not, then we're a lot farther gone than I would like to believe. But I totally agree. I mean, Tom Cruise's top gun maverick praised God that that was the number one movie the last year and a half. I think that is evidence in my favor

that people enjoyed kind of the pro-American of life, right? The kind of, you know, we're gonna go up against the bad guys. There was no bad guy. What, what, name the bad guy? No, that's what was so interesting. It was no country. They didn't identify it. But it was just about America.

It was just about America. Yeah, it was almost, right? And it was about rallying behind a team. And it really didn't pander that much to identity politics. I mean, it was a about America. But it was just about America. Yeah, it was about abstracts, right? And it was about rallying behind a team. And it really didn't pander that much to identity politics. I mean, it was a little bit throughout. But it was largely a movie that could have been made in the 80s or 90s, which is why it was so successful. You know what I think needs to happen.

This is my ideas. OK, on this. First of all, for me, the enemy, if you study enemy, how it did whatever it did it always divided if I if a if a person today We're having a meeting upstairs. We're having a matter's meeting and I said the biggest challenge in a marriage Who's the biggest enemy in a marriage the biggest enemy is when the spouse becomes the marriage It's always better to have an external enemy than an internal enemy The worst type of enemy is the internal enemy. We have internal enemies right now.

And the way they're doing it is they're going, they're so brilliant, dark but brilliant. They're going straight to the top of influence and they're crippling them. Straight to the top, but did you see what he did? But did you see what she did? But your parents, they don't know what they're doing. Your parents don't care about you.

If your parents came out, they would probably judge you. You know what what this is how we are. We are a little bit more this way. So they're dividing to the point of influence Okay, whatever the influence is now Mel Gibson may be a guy who I can watch all day his movies. I think he's fantastic I think it's funny. He can do funny. I think he can do you know drama. He can do anything put him anywhere He's gonna do great, right? But I think you need to get somebody like the face of the NBA, the face of the NFL, the face of Hollywood. Like, it needs to be a rock type.

It needs to be a Michael type, a LeBron type, a Brady type, a person like that that's willing to talk. So if they're gonna work that way to come and take the influence from the top You got to go get some of the guys at the top so two things my homes is an outspoken Christian So that's a good start and I know for certain he loves America He's probably a conservative. I don't want to out in him here because he would lose a contract and boy isn't that the case is that they make harsh punishment Swift if you defect from the regime party line and the case is that they make harsh punishment swift

if you defect from the regime party line. And just look at what happens if you dare even step out a line a little bit, you have to do these long apologies and you have to, I mean, look what they try to do to Rogan for even questioning some of the COVID stuff, right? You gotta stand up though. No, I agree with you. I'm saying that the people too big to cancel.

The Mahomes and Brady is a right-winger. I mean, he's a total pro-American conservative guy and he's too big to cancel now. He's retired, so maybe he'll be able to speak out more. But I completely agree. I mean, Tiger Woods is a pro-American guy. He doesn't hate this country. I'm sure he doesn't stand for the BLM stuff. There's a difference between being what you are and promoting it and driving it. There's a big difference between being what you are and driving it and promoting it because other young kids are watching you

to want to be converted. Anyways, we got a lot of the stories I want to get into. A few things time, I'm looking at Wall Street Journal today. Top three stories. Elon Musk has revived the idea of digital banking to turn Twitter into a company worth more than $250 billion in aspiration that faces regulatory hurdles and challenge of entrenched players.

Second story, Tesla, delivered a record number of vehicles in the three months of the year, first three months of the year, when the company slashed prices to stimulate demand in a cooling car market. Okay? Three. McDonald's is temporarily closing its U.S. offices this week as it prepares to inform corporate employees about layoffs undertaken by the burger giant as part of a broader company restructuring.

Tom, going to Elon Musk, operating those two companies. Tesla and Twitter, what are the likelihood you think? Because right now, Twitter's what? They came back, they're shares, they're showing $22 billion valuation, whatever the number was. A guy like this running two different companies, what's the likelihood of both of these things becoming a reality?

Meaning Tesla going to become the company he wants to build and Twitter become that quarter1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and other things to it. I would have said you're crazy. But I think this is, this guy's just a special guy and I think he's putting the teams around him. He's been unafraid to call the herd at Twitter headquarters. And I think both of these things are going to be a reality and he's not going to do it single-handedly. And what he's doing right now is he is pulling back on Twitter and then building forward with the people that are with them.

And I think both of these things are absolutely gonna be a reality. And you have to remember, where he's going with Twitter, it's not really a long path to that. It's called the Super App. And we see people talking about the Super Apps that are available in the agents that do so many things. Yeah, and that are also banking centers.

And I think he's been part of a past organization that comes to mind. I think that was a pretty successful center of banking. And I think what he's really talking about here is I'm going to make Twitter a super app. And I'm also going to make Tesla successful. And I believe him. Should he come out and say that? Did he want to make this into a super app? He's talked about it before.

He's talked about it before. Yeah's talked about it for, yeah. So a question for you, Charlie. So imagine, what if, let's do three what ifs, okay? What if, Musk doesn't buy Twitter? What if Spotify dropped Rogan? What if, there is no rumble? What would happen today if there weren't for those three companies? We would be in a far, far worse spot than we are now. Yeah, I mean, if muston by Twitter, first of all, I wouldn't have been able to prove that I was on a Twitter blacklist because Elon put out the Twitter files that do not amplify tag. So that's number one. Praise God, we have. Would you know that? I did not know that. I was on that list. Dan Bongino that we know of.

It's actually my pin tweet. It says, I was placed on Twitter to blacklist. Wow. And you learned that just a few months ago on the Twitter file? So one of the Twitter files that was leaked and reported on by Barry Weiss showed that there was a specific threat assessment tag

put on my Twitter account that said, quote, do not amplify on my account. It was a shadow ban without a shadow ban. So Jack Dorsey lied under oath in front of Congress. So you weren't banned, you just weren't amplified. It said do not amplify. Yeah, and to a day I could show you, because we used to have the fourth largest engaged Twitter account on the planet, according to Axios.

We were averaging about 135,000 retweets a day. We really understood the harmony, the platform, and we used it nonstop. It's kind of how we made a name for ourselves. And then like overnight, we went to a thousand retweets a day. And we now know why, because we replaced on a Twitter flag. To be a difference, but from 135 to a thousand retweets a day. It's a scale of 100, right?

You saw the same thing on TikTok, Pat. Saw the exact same thing. Oh, they did the same thing as well. Pat and I were talking to each other. Do you remember the termination day where they were all of a sudden a bunch of followers disappeared? Oh yeah.

Pat and I were on the phone call, if you looked at your Twitter, I just looked at mine. I just lost 3,000 followers from yesterday to today. And now you can go back and you can look at any of the trackers in here, social blade or any of them, then you can go that day.

It's great to, but the point is the fact that I, the point of an image is, go, actually, I actually want you to think about it. Let's, let's try to paint a picture for the audience. Musk doesn't buy Twitter. Spotify drops Rogan. Yep. Rumble isn't there to scare the crap out of YouTube saying, hey, if you don't, if you abuse the talent, there's another option for that. What does America look like if those three events don't have it? We look even more like East Germany, and we're looking like East Germany right now. I mean, Rumble is one of our great hopes for free speech online. Full disclosure, I'm a

shareholder in Rumble. I bought their stock, so I'm not pushing the stock. I'm just saying what they're doing is a very, very magical thing to push back against the Leviathan that is YouTube. If Spotify would have canceled Rogan, he probably would have landed on his feet. He probably could have done his own thing, but it would have showed that we at Spotify will not allow any sort of dissident opinions or dissent.

I personally think Rogan might not renew his Spotify contract. I would love to see him do his own thing and just sign out his stuff. I think he's big enough. He's America's greatest podcaster. He's super easy to listen to, fabulous interviewer and just really interesting. That's my own personal opinion. I think he's bigger than Spotify. In fact, I was one of the few people that think that Spotify underpaid him. I think he's a billion dollar talent. I know that sounds wild, but he has so much power in the zeitgeist.

He's so good at what he does, and not to mention, he can get any guest he wants at any time. And he has a unique format. So those three, those components, praise God, that Twitter is now owned by Elon. It's freer than ever before. There's still a lot of work to do on the platform. It still has sort of quirks. And I don't like their new verification thing.

It drives me crazy that almost anybody can get verified, but that's just me. I think it's kind of weird. But speech online, believe it or not, in the last year has become more free, not less free. Of course. It's one of the few things in society. It's actually heading the right direction, which is why they have to try to get this restrict act passed. The restrict act in DC, where they're saying it's

going to ban TikTok, it's all nonsense. What they're trying to do is create a precedent or a prerequisite to make speech less free online. We as people that love America and believe in dialogue and a free and open internet have actually had a pretty good 18 months They are going to try to use the bipartisan hatred of TikTok as a way to try to ban Telegram, Rumble and Twitter All three of them have foreign components. Telegram was founded by a Russian

Rumble was founded in Canada and Twitter has shareholders like the Saudis that own shares under the restrict act The Secretary of Commerce could ban all three based on what they're about to give the power to. And it's probably gonna pass, thankfully, because we're sounding the alarm on. It's the Patriot Act on steroids. For social media companies. Yeah, look, it's right there.

I mean, that's literally the quote. And that's salon.com, which is a communist rag that even agrees with me. I mean, I hate TikTok. I think it's digital fentanyl, but I think that we're gonna have to live with TikTok being a thing, maybe sold to an American company and onshore. That would be the best solution, because giving DC unprecedented censorship authority in a time when the internet is becoming freer would be a big mistake.

You think TikTok should be banned? Is that something? In the ideal world, of course, yes, but we have to also look in reality where you give DC a little bit of this power they're going to use it to ban us in another way I think tiktok is bad for society and bad for humanity but I don't always get what I want so I'd rather have a free open internet with this really bad app that hopefully can be on board in America because they will try to use the same power to then restrict telegram, rumble or Twitter. Is there this yearning for this, what act is it called?

The Restrict Act? Oh, yeah, no, it has some year. Is there some post-pans? 21 post-pans? Who's leading that? Republicans and Democrats. You can look at the co-sponsors. There's more Republicans actually than Democrat sponsoring it.

Lindsey Graham, Shelley Moore Capito, Susan Collins. you can go through all the co-sponsors. Our John Thune is the main Republican, yep, there it is, John Thune, and then Tammy Baldwin from Wisconsin. I'm super cynical and jaded. Anytime you have mass bipartisan support for anything in DC, it means a lot of lobbyists are pushing for something that's probably going to be bad for the country and our freedom. I hate to be so jaded, but that's just a general rule. And there's exceptions, obviously.

I mean, there's some opioid stuff that's passing that's some good legislation. This is confirmation of the rule, though. This is an awful piece of legislation that would make our ability to speak online highly restricted, because it's literally in the name, the restrict act. So what could they do to companies? So forget TikTok.

What could they do to a rumble? What could they do to? That's read the bill. It could police our speech. It is Patriot Act 2.0 using the guys of foreign adversaries, giving all the power to the Secretary of Commerce, who no one really knows who she is. She's Gina Romando.

It's fine. It could be anybody. But effectively delegating that authority to say if there's any sort of foreign policy concern, we can then use that power to close down the app, restrict their activity or monitor the activity. And you could just imagine, and by the way, the people pushing this are the tech companies, Google and Facebook. And I said, well, why would Google and Facebook push this? Well, Google is being threatened via YouTube shorts with TikTok. Facebook pushed this. Well, Google is being threatened via YouTube shorts

with TikTok. Facebook is being threatened on Instagram by TikTok. But Facebook wants more than that. Facebook would love to be able to ban telegram because people would use WhatsApp. This is all blatant cronism disguised as a bipartisan bill to try to stop the CCP from mining our kids data. We should try to do something to fix that.

Make them onshore, sell it to an American company, the idea of giving the federal government censorship powers of a social media app, I think it's a really bad idea. For me, it came down when I went to look at this, and I was expecting to see a, like, a five-page tariff, right? Tariff's are usually three to five pages. Illuminum shall be defined as aluminum and it will have a 16% tariff and within five pages

you take care of it. So I was expecting Pat to see five pages on this because of the threat posed by a foreign entity having access to personal information including potential financial information of the American people, it shall be impugned. Right? That's the word you look for. I was looking for five pages. And also, you look, and this is hundreds. Wait a minute.

Why does it need, why do you need hundreds of pages to effectively put a negative tariff and to shut TikTok for the reasons of harvesting American information on foreign soil for nefarious means. And then I looked into it and I said, wait a minute. This is a whole, this is a weaponization of government that is being advocated by today's corporate interest coming from Facebook. What Facebook doesn't understand is there's an other side of the rock here because they're not going to be where they are forever,

nor their competitors going to be are forever and they are one generation and a black swan from being on the receiving end of this thing hundreds of pages so be a five-page tariff the next concern we can get this this is a while because we saw what Patriot acted it's a way of bullying the average person and going after anybody at any given time and I've had a chance to Interview a lot of these mobsters it was done from a good standpoint to get them, you know Put them in jail and a lot of these guys at the New York City was very happy the fact that Rudy was able to do it But then that opened up a way for the government to say man

We can really go after a lot of different people go after Trump everybody was Everybody. It's a Patriot Act to go after Trump as president. Yeah. So let's talk about that. What's going on right now with Trump? I can pick any of these stories and read them. Trump rages about being indicted and social media posts about his indictment says the US is now a third world country.

Donald Trump can still run for president after. And after I know indicated, I saw that indicated that. He wrote that. Yeah, yeah. Hey, if I was indicted, I wouldn't have my spelling very fascinating. I think you got to give him a little bit more sense. So what do you think about what's going on here?

What do you think about what's going on here? Oh, I mean, it's an outrage. I mean, I called it something similar to a legal Pearl Harbor where this has never been done before. We'll never forget that it's done. And they're first of all, they're directly interfering with an election. You don't like Trump being in the ballot box.

Why do you have to do it this way? Second of all, this is not a felony. What they've outlined, we haven't seen the indictment yet, so maybe I'll be corrected, but I don't think I will be in this way. Based on all public reporting and all leaks from the Grand Jury, this is a paperwork area, an era that might be a misdemeanor, might, and upgraded to a felony. While, Alvin Bragg has downgraded 52%

of previously classified felonies as misdemeanors. So the trend in New York is not felonies, we're going in the misdemeanor direction. We're going to, you know, we're going to say that if you looed or if you burn or you steal or you do all these things, yeah, we reduce by 52%. That downgraded 52% of felony cases to misdemeanors compared to 39%. So it's legit. There's 2% different, yeah. Yeah, and so he's increasing it now. And so there's a term for this, I didn't come up with it. It's Sam Francis called anarchotirini which is the basic things that the nation needs to do to keep yourself safe.

Holding murderers accountable, drug trafficking, arson stuff that we all don't agree with. That we're loosening the sentencing and the policing there, but we're increasing the tyranny for political-favored crimes. And so of course the political hit job, they're using this for political-favored crimes. And so, of course, the political hit job, they're using this for political purposes. But I think there's something a lot deeper here going on. The real crime that Donald Trump committed was winning the 2016 election. And we know this in the psychological literature,

the power of trauma, right? And we know about post-traumatic stress syndrome PTSD. It's not that different. They were the left in New York, the New York City elite were legitimately traumatized. The night that Hillary Clinton was supposed to break that glass ceiling at the Crabbit Center. And that has now become almost a psychologically defining event for them where they sort of they sort of blood oath seven years ago. We're going to get you and it's going to no matter what, we're going to make you indicted in the same place that you stole that night from us because Amy Coney Barrett and Kavanaugh and Gorsuch and all the successes that Donald Trump achieved was not supposed to happen.

So I think this is more a revenge than almost anything else. It's petty. It's personal. It's pathological and it's political Daily Mail says Trump doubles his lead in Republican primary Record-breaking, you know raising money people are coming out of supporting him some people are saying no matter what he's gonna End up winning Story came out that they want him to be He wants him to do 30 days in jail. They're trying to get him to go do time. For a gag order. For a gag order.

Yes, all of this stuff that's going on. Now, here's kind of how I processed this. You know, if you go after someone's father and you kill someone's father, but he's got two, three surviving sons, it's game over. Back in the days, if you took out a guy, you had to take out a son's because you did not want any revenge to be taking place.

Let's say you win with Trump. Let's say you win with Trump. Let's say they win with Trump or what they're doing. Let's say they do. How many people have they given birth to or waking up right now that are saying now that you did this Watch to see what we're gonna do 10 to 20 30 years from now. Yeah, that's a rational argument. And they don't think that way. I mean, look, the whatever you want to call it, the deep state, the elite left, taking

out presidents by non-democratic means has been done before. They did it to Nixon, right? They attempted to do it to Clinton and he survived because you lot because he made a deal, I think, with the national security state. They've done this. Obama was smart enough not to wage war on the security. Did whatever the CIA wanted, whatever the FBI wanted. And then they try to do it to Trump three times first with the Patriot Act Press Center, the FISA court, which was completely unconstitutional where James Comey and Peter Struckshukesmerk they colluded together illegally to get a FISA warrant to spy on a sitting president's soon to be president's campaign and also then a sitting president in trap Michael Flynn, then the first impeachment over a phone call, then the second impeachment over January 6th.

I mean, this guy has been attacked at every possible non-democratic vector you can imagine because I think there is a fear that they will not be able to replicate what they did in 2020 again. Whether you think it was fraud, which I certainly believe, or not, we can all agree what happened in 2020 was unusual. That's a fact. It was the amount of mail-in ballots, the amount of private money from Zuckerberg, $400 million, drop boxes, kind of confusion. No one really knew what was happening with COVID, and it was almost like the make-it-stop election. I think there's a great fear that Trump might win in 2024. And we have to take them off the chess board immediately, consequences be damned. For someone like you, where you are,

where I, by the way, these two screens, Jorge went down, if you wanna bring them back up, we don't see them. So, for someone like you, I was at your event, when I was at the event, and I was watching some of the people saying, hey, $4 million, $2 million, $100,000, you know, half a million dollars,

and you saw some folks that said, hey, some of you are worried about wanting to give money because you're thinking, you know, Charlie's a part of a Trump camp or this or that. And some of you are the Santas people here. Whether you are or you're not, you know, he is doing some values that are good for the, how are you positioned right now to be where you are?

You got Trump, it's a very complicated position you're in because the smile on your face says a story because on one side, it's never dull moment. Yeah, it's never dull moment, but you're in a pickle here yourself. So how do you maneuver around a situation like this? Yeah, I try to be as clear as possible. First, turning point USA, the crux of what we do is educational. It's 501C3,

no political at all. By law, we have to stay out of politics. High school campuses, college campuses, turning point academy, TPUSA faith, young women's leadership summit, thousands and thousands of members, that's going to remain strong and growing and one of the largest organizations in the country. Praise God. And then there's Charlie Kirk personally. I've endorsed Trump in 2024. I don't like his attacks on DeSantis. I don't support them because I actually like Governor DeSantis a lot.

And I want him to be successful. But when I'm clear to my donors about this, you know, we've lost, I'd say probably 10 or 12 major donors, saying, I don't like the factor behind Trump. I'm like, well, I'm sorry. Let me tell you why. First, he was a great president. Secondly, I want you to understand that Charlie Kirk and the turning point machine would not exist if it was not for how generous Donald Trump was to us throughout the years.

Patrick, I was 24 years old sitting in the Oval Office as a non-college graduate getting invited on Air Force One. If I would forget that, I mean, I would be the most ungrateful, short-sighted person to turn my back on the man who believed in me when I was not nearly as, you know, let's just say successful or popular as I am today. And so I have an obligation to him in the best possible way. I don't want to be one of those people that benefits and then turns the back. And I also have something to say about, a lot of people talk about Trump's negatives.

I hear about it all the time. But he has some virtues, some great virtues. He works relentlessly. I've never seen someone with as much energy as him. He loves the country. He's amazingly patriotic. He's very creative. And honestly, he was a fabulous president.

And he might not have liked the tone, but look at where America and honestly he was a fabulous president and he might not like the tone But look at where America was when he was president and the garbage that's going on now. It's pretty easy choice So what you just said is the loyalty you're staying loyal to him and he was loyal to you Yes, and I also think he was a great president and I believe in his I respect that now What do you say to people that say well? That's great Charlie? We respect that but that's exactly what his problem is, would run because he thinks without himself, Ron would have never won, and that is why some people

from MAGA believe that he is disloyal unlike you. What do you say to those people? So what you're asking is, what do I say to people that say that Trump gets mad at Ron because he's disloyal? Yeah, so I'll have a conversation, I'll say listen guys, there's a reason why I'm in Florida. I mean, I lived in LA for 20 some years and I lived in Dallas for five years,

we're in Florida, we're in Florida because we watched all the governors are in COVID what they did, Ron crushed it. We felt like this is a place we're gonna build the media headquarters, we moved out here, kids, values, principles, all of that, we felt good here, right? And the beach in Florida is much better than the beach in Texas

I don't know if you've seen the beach in Texas. You're exactly. I love this state by the Florida and DeSantis is on a fabulous job phenomenal job right so then you'll have conversations with some folks and they'll say you know Look DeSantis should run 2028. He shouldn't run 2024. He should just not even go in You know, he should wait till 2028. This is a the Trump thing to do. And Trump is upset because he's not announced that he's not running. He's kept it open. He's written the book, the playbook of writing a book. Go out there and do a couple interviews, Pierce Morgan, all this stuff. This is a sign of this guy's about to run. So this is why some of the

people from the Trump camp in St. He would be much better if he stayed out. Possibly. I will I see it both ways. Let me let me because I'm friends with both of them. First of all, it is it is a true statement that Ron DeSantis would not have been the Republican nominee without Trump. He was down 30 points to Adam Putnam in the polls. Putnam had all the I think it's Adam Putnam is the name. He raised all the money. He was chamber commerce selected and DeSantis got the endorsement, and he became the nominee. There's a lot of truth to that.

And so Trump understandably feels like, hey man, like I really helped you here, right? Look at the headline at the Tampa Bay Times. This is a left-wing paper. Fueled by Trump, Ron DeSantis easily beats Adam Putnam, despite $37 million spent on the primary. More than twice what DeSantis easily beats Adam Putnam, despite $37 million spent on the primary, more than twice what DeSantis did. So there's a lot of truth to that and people forget that.

Now at the same time though, DeSantis is his own man and he's been a great governor with his own record and he's done a unbelievably good job. And so Trump started him on his legacy there. But it's kind of an interesting thing, right? It's like, I kind of made you who you are. Wait your turn and DeSantis said, oh, well, you got me past the primary, but you didn't make me a good governor, right? And so that's DeSantis' claim. Here's where I come down on it, though. My advice to Ron DeSantis would be as of right now, you will not be the nominee. Trump is gaining support. This indictment helps him. It validates every core argument that Trump has, which is the system is against me. Therefore, I'm such a threat.

They're going to try to take me out in a Republican primary. You know, that plays really, really well. I'm still an outsider. I'm still an outsider, right? Even though I'm a former president running as a rebel, right? So it helps him tremendously. But I personally don't want to see a nasty primary, but I don't get what I want. It's going to be a nasty primary. I'm going to try to referee it the best I can as friends with both of them.

Also wearing a MAGA hat throughout it has trumped 2024 with my commitments as candidacy and what he wants to do for the country. But if Rhonda Santis wins, if Rhonda Santis runs, he'll raise a bunch of money. And I hope, you know, we'll elevate the discourse. And if and when he loses, which I believe he would lose the Trump, I hope he endorses him. Question for you. This is the last question on this one. No, I'm happy to go. This one, this one.

So, so if you were him, and you beat Putnam, 37 million to half, you didn't have the money that you raised, Trump comes and endorses you, would you even signal that you're running, or would you come out and say, I'm not running this time around, what would you do if that was you? I'd probably run because there's this kind of big shadow

of a very big man, Chris Christie, of the man who never ran And he was supposed to be president in 2012 you might remember he was kind of like the darling of the Republican party and you know Then he hugged Obama I think it's gonna be tough for a Christie to cross that bridge the bridge might be Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it might not hold his weight Um, and some sorry, that's Yeah, it might not hold this weight. And some, sorry, that's mean, but it's so true.

I mean, he's like 200 pounds overweight. Talk about the fact that it's closed. The weight is not that hard, just like stop eating carbs. And so anyway, that kind of shadow is folklore and conservative world. I hear it all the time, because Christy was a popular governor who won in a state that previously was not as favorable.

And so I think if I was, in politics, the rule is it's better to run and lose than to not run at all and be forgotten. It's like it's better to be loved and lost. And you don't have love at all. Charlie, this is why people like you, though. Okay, so you're in a tough spot here. I had no idea what direction you were gonna go by, when I asked those questions,

because you're being super loyal to the man who helped you during a time where you're 24 years old, all the office, all these things that you're talking about, you're trying to get your business going, and then it is where it's at today, but you're maintaining a good relationship with Tessentis, and you're saying, if you had to be in this position, you would still run.

So in a way, but at the same time, you are wearing the MAGA 2020 Ford hat. So Rahm Emanuel said the same thing to Obama in 04, when it's like, hey, you got all this momentum after the DNC speech, what are you gonna do? Like what's the likelihood that another moment like this gonna happen to you? You're gonna be forgotten about.

And to resume Tisantis has the last two and a half, three years of what he did under COVID. It's impressive. It's more than impressive. It's number one on the leaders' bulletin. That's correct, yes. But that doesn't mean anything to the fact that this guy named Donald is gonna come

to add him in ways he's never experienced before. And it might toughen him. Remember Ronald Reagan ran multiple times for the Republican presidential nomination before actually being the nominee. Ronald Reagan, primary to a sitting president. We forget this. Gerald Ford, the unelected president, only one in American history. He primaryed him in 1976 and almost won the nomination, brought it to the convention floor,

and then Gerald Ford won an inside deal. And then Ronald Reagan, of course, won the nomination in 1980 and won a landslide election. And so you asked me a very specific question if I was him. And so I gave you a specific answer. It's better to run and lose than not run and be forgotten. Will he lose?

Oh yeah, Trump will, I mean, absent a black swan event or massive amounts of Republican primary voters, you know, changing their worldview in the next nine months, which I don't think is exactly going to happen. I have a really good pulse of the grassroots in the conservative grassroots. They love Trump. This indictment has made them furious. They're ready for action.

And they look at Donald Trump as a symbol more than a man. He is a symbol of abuse of the powerful, the powerful coming after the normal person and abusing them. Now Trump is not a normal person, he's a billionaire, but he's become kind of this larger than life martyr where people who get fired because their factory went to China

or somebody that gets terminated because they said something politically incorrect. Trump is a now manifestation of the powerful using their powerful unjustly. You might disagree with that representation, but it's how millions of Republican primary voters view it. How much does this infuriate a Hillary Clinton that she wishes she had this kind of a following and this kind of a admiration that she just cannot get how much does this irritate her? I mean I could do a whole hour on Hillary Clinton. Yeah, she's a very broken person and

Donald Trump largely broke her her whole life was about becoming president her whole life from when she went to Manie's high school in Chicago when she went to She went to Wellesley her whole life was in preparation her school in Chicago when she went to Wellesley, her whole life was in preparation. Her marriage to Bill Clinton, what a con that was, right? From her running the Bimbo Squad for Bill, which was literally the same thing that they're indicted Donald Trump for, Bill Clinton had a whole operation, a whole team. You could look at up Bimbo Squad where they just went and they went to women that Donald Trump had, not Donald Trump, that Bill Clinton had sex with and then they would just do NDA after NDA after NDA.

And it was well known in the 90s and people forget about it. Yep. See, Giuliani says Clintons in, in Floyd a Bimbo squad. You go down political.com 2016. Yes, Hillary was an enabler, right? She was the chief architect. She was a Michael Cohen of Bill Clinton's NDA operation in the 90s. And look, I'll be very honest, I don't love the argument. Well, Democrats do those crimes and why should

Republicans be applied? Because I just think it's overdone. In this case, it's actually a good argument, which is that Bill Clinton mastered the private payoff, NDA. Like, he was the best at it. He would go sleep with a woman, she would go threaten to go to the news, and then he would throw the bimbo squad and settle for $100,000. Right? If they never indicted him.