PBD Podcast - Chris Cuomo vs Dave Smith Debate: COVID-19, Mandates & Trump's Guilty Verdict | PBD Podcast | Ep. 419

Episode Date: June 1, 2024

Patrick Bet-David is joined by Chris Cuomo and Dave Smith as they debate Donald Trump's guilty verdict, the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines and lockdowns, and whether the NIH-funded gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Connect with Dave Smith on Minnect: https://bit.ly/454s6Ai Connect with Chris Cuomo on Minnect: https://bit.ly/4caZvfJ THE VAULT CONFERENCE FEAT. PATRICK BET-DAVID & DWAYNE "THE ROCK" JOHNSON: Purchase tickets to The Vault Conference 2024 September 4th - 7th: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3X1JBzm⁠⁠⁠ MINNECT: Connect one-on-one with the right expert for you on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3MC9IXE Connect with Patrick Bet-David on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3OoiGIC Connect with Dave Smith on Minnect: https://bit.ly/454s6Ai Connect with Chris Cuomo on Minnect: https://bit.ly/4caZvfJ Connect with Rob Garguilo on Minnect: https://bit.ly/426IG0R CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES WISELY: Purchase PBD's Book "Choose Your Enemies Wisely": https://bit.ly/41bTtGD BET-DAVID CONSULTING: Get best-in-class business advice with Bet-David Consulting: https://bit.ly/40oUafz VT.COM: Visit VT.com for the latest news and insights from the world of politics, business and entertainment: https://bit.ly/472R3Mz VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: Visit Valuetainment University for the best courses online for entrepreneurs: https://bit.ly/47gKVA0 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! YOUR NEXT 5 MOVES: Want to be clear on your next 5 business moves? https://bit.ly/3Qzrj3m ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

. Good evening everyone and welcome to the Valuetainment studios. Everybody in house make some noise right now. Whether you're joining us from home or in the studio, we are thrilled to have you guys with us tonight. We have an amazing event lined up as we bring together two powerhouse figures for a thorough, provoking debate. Guiding us through tonight's debate is not only the founder and CEO of Valuetainment, but also a visionary entrepreneur, a masterful communicator, and the man that truly epitomizes

the vision the future looks bright. Put your hands together right now, everybody in the house. Make some noise right now for Patrick, Ben, David. All right, where we going? How you doing? My man. Okay, by the way, I have to tell you the reason why we're starting a couple minutes, are they seeing this worldwide or no? Is it live already or no Vinny? Are we? There was a massive fight that broke out backstage. Dave Smith and Chris Cuomo Tom had to separate him But we're now ready to get started couple things you need to know are you guys okay? If we celebrate two things tonight before we get is that okay with you?

Do you know what's special about tonight the man that just brought me up hasn't drank alcohol for one year today's is one year for one year today is one year. Proud of any? Where you have any? Wherever you are we love you and Kelly run and run it's her birthday so Kelly wherever you are happy birthday to you Kelly. All right so how did this get started so I had a podcast that we did with Chris I want to say May 7th, May 6th, May 8th, and then we asked Chris some questions and he said some things that he is now taking ivermectin and then comments were made about, well, you know, Joe Rogan was right, maybe this, maybe that, and then we showed some clips of him and Byron Donald. You should be taking a vaccine. All this stuff.

And obviously Chris, being a sport that he is, he was willing to have these clips being shown. And he actually asks for it. Can you do more of it? I don't know why he likes to have me show more, just such a sweetheart of a guy. And then afterwards, Dave Smith jumps on all these clips from the past, CNN, all these things start going out. And I see Dave saying this, I text Dave, I say, Dave, I see you.

Chris, are you up for it? Then we're trying to get the whole date going on because the Libertarian Convention was taking place, Trump's there, all these other things that's going on. Finally we got the date in place, Dave gets up and he says, hey, PBD, Cuomo, why don't we do this? Let's make this happen. Let's make this happen and you can say whatever you want about anybody One of the biggest things that Dana White gave a compliment about Connor He says you can say whatever you want about Connor if I call him for a fight He's always ready. You don't have to agree with the person

You don't have to agree with the person's views You don't have to be with the person. You don't have to agree with the person's views. You don't have to be on the same page with them. But you have to respect the fact that they're willing to have this conversation that nobody, if you ask anybody on the left from CNN, from mainstream media, to come and have a sit down here, do you know how many people would say yes to this? This many people today. We invite them. Okay?

So no matter what your opinions are, if you believe in freedom of speech, which we do, if you believe in debate, if you believe in discourse, if you believe that the way we get closer to the truth is by clash of ideas, if that's what you're all about, you've got to respect it. And I applaud both of these guys for agreeing to do this. Obviously on one end, Dave Smith, probably one of the most formidable names right now in the marketplace when it's coming up on the libertarian side. There are a lot of people who are libertarians want to see this guy run for president. A lot of them. You hear conversations regularly about the fact that Dave Smith will be the guy. Why are they getting this other guy? We want to see this guy coming in. Obviously David's great. I never said David's at the

level of Joe Jorgensen, but he's good. He's got some. Dave, I don't want this thing to get to your head, honestly. I don't want to do that kind of stuff to you, but he's loved, Joe Rogan likes this guy so much that he had him on two times back to back. That's how much he loves this guy. Anyways, give it up to the one and only, Dave Smith. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you, man. Thank you, man. Thank you, man. Thank you, man. All right, and the next person, you know who he is, for a couple years he was the face of CNN.

I think he was there 15 years. And he's got his own show. He's with News Nation now. Another one of these names. I've had a chance to spend time with him and his family. I've had a chance to spend time with him and his wife. We broke bread out of the house one time with his wife. Absolutely loved the family dynamics, how supportive she was.

And the same with Chris, when I see him with his kids, with his family getting on the floor doing jujitsu with my guy, I like how people are behind closed doors. My experience has been great. With that being said, give it up. Chris Como! All right. So let's get started. By the way, just so you guys know, one of the things I value a lot is being responsible.

So I just want to make sure, I hope you guys are comfortable with this. We were ready to do this. I mean, obviously a lot of the topic tonight, the things we'll be talking about tonight will be COVID, will be vaccine, will be Fauci, those things we have to talk about. There's some things I will get into. And then we have to talk about the fact that yesterday there's this guy where Alex Soros,

who I don't know if you guys know who he is, his father Jorge, he just tweeted a few hours ago saying everybody on the left has to use the word convicted felon nonstop over and over and over again. If you guys know who I'm talking about, last night, 34 counts, we have to talk about who is now Donald Trump convicted felon. I want to get your thoughts on that. I've got some things I want to talk to you about with immigration.

I've got some things I want to talk to you about with dual citizenship. I'm curious to know where you stand with that with dual citizenship. And then a couple other issues which we'll bring up. We've got three hours to go through it. And a couple other questions here from others. By the way, to do this the right way, I have a special toy here with me. I don't know if you guys recognize this. I think we have to pay respect because this is serious stuff. We brought all the books to recognize, Disney books, Sexiest Man Alive. We brought masks for everybody that wants to be responsible. We got them all here. I know you guys are the responsible folks.

And by the way, all the folks here, the great thing about this, you go to Oprah Winfrey they say, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. Everybody here gets a mask tonight. How awesome is that? Give them a mask to celebrate this thing with one of these beautiful masks. I got one of these here just for some of you guys to appreciate it. We got some high-end ivermectin for you guys if you guys want to go through this. All right, what else do you want me to put you?

No, no, we're doing this the right way, guys. I got disinfectant here for you. I got some more stuff here. We're going to take right way, guys. I got this infecting tear for you. I got some more stuff here. We're going to take this thing very seriously. We're going to be so responsible. It's not even funny. I got the high quality Kleenex. I'm talking the expensive kind from Walmart.

Guys, we're going all out today. We're going to figure this thing out. All right. So, let's start. Dave. You see the podcast, you see a couple things that Chris said, you reacted to it and obviously it was very obvious you had strong opinions about it to see how I want to make this happen. What prompted you to want to say, Pat, I want to have this discussion?

Well, look, I mean, Pat, you made a video addressing a lot of your fans because I think I'm far from the only one who had This reaction I would let me just say before we start this thing. Thank you to Pat you're the man for setting this whole thing up and think and And thank you to Chris because it's I think it's an honorable move that you are here doing this debate And I really appreciate that for all the people out there who were giving Pat a hard time for bringing Chris on board the network, hey this moment doesn't happen unless he does that. So I do agree that open discourse and open debate is always healthy for a society and I think it's

great that we're doing this. So I will say number one I came with a gift for Chris. This is and I really hope you read this, this is the definitive book on the COVID regime. It's called Diary of a Psychosis, How Public Health Disgraced Themselves During the COVID Mania. It's written by Tom Woods, and of course, the forward is by the great Jay Bhattacharya, who if you guys don't know, absolutely brilliant doctor

over at Stanford who was one of the signers of the, excuse me, the declaration out there and what's, Great Barrington Declaration. Thank you. I'm already stumbling and someone saved me in the audience. Thank you very much. Here you go. This is for you. Please read it. It's excellent. I know you like following the science and there's a whole lot of science in that book. Look, I think- What a great way to science in that book. Look I think- What a great way to start with a gift.

You know what, very sweet of you. Well listen, I don't have PBD bank accounts. I can't come through with Lenny Bruce's microphone, but it's a nice book. I gotta tell you Bill, what I didn't appreciate about the Dave, he wanted me to not only fly him in a private jet, he wanted a business Boeing jet. Listen, that request of yours crossed the line. I'm telling you right now. I requested an Uber Comfort.

That was the most I ever requested on this. But I think, look, I think that a lot of us in this world, whatever you consider this world, we call it podcasts, but it's kind of an outdated term. None of us have iPods anymore, but for some reason, that name just stuck. But in this world of shows on the internet, whether it's Pat's show or my show, Joe Rogan's show, Glenn Greenwald has a show, Tim Poole has a show, all these people have shows.

And we all disagree about so many things. But the one thing we kind of all agree about in this area is that we opposed the COVID insanity. That was kind of the thing that united all of the shows on the internet that are big. And it was a strange fit for you to come from CNN into this world. It kind of reminds me.

It's like Dick Cheney trying to join the anti-war movement, or something like that. And the truth is that what really was, I think, incredible to me and to many people was that it was kind of amazing to watch you admit so many of the things that you admitted on the podcast with Pat. But at the same time, you laughed off the idea of an apology.

Your first thing you said was apology. No way. There's no way. And then you proceeded to go on to confirm what all of us had known for so long. But you, sir, were smearing people like us for having this view. You were, at the time when the COVID insanity struck,

you were the number one show at CNN, a time when the nation was going through a major crisis and totalitarianism swept throughout all 50 states. Actually minus one, I think South Dakota never had lockdowns. 49 out of the 50 states went totalitarian. They didn't have lockdowns but they did have a dog get killed at 13 months. I think that's what happened South Dakota. We got to get the facts. It was something I think Kim Jong-un was involved in. I'm not sure about the details. But during this moment, you know, we really needed people, especially people

who had a big platform. You were the number one show at CNN, which is huge, almost as big as this show. And it seems to me that you, rather than doing what your job should have been at the time, which was to be skeptical of power and to shine a light against the propaganda, it seems like you ate up every single piece of propaganda, repeated all of it without any thought to whether it was true or not, and then smeared millions of Americans, like myself, who were opposed to this stuff.

So that's where my beef is. Chris. I understand your beef. Why would I not apologize? An apology is when you say something that you shouldn't have said, that was wrong to say, that you said for bad reason, or you're trying to hurt. None of those apply.

I hear your understanding of the pandemic. I don't agree. I lived it closer than you in many ways, closer than any of you probably in many ways. And there were absolutely mistakes made. The idea that it was a totalitarian regime, that's hyperbole. My main reason for wanting to discuss this with you guys, I

do this for three reasons. A lot of people would say the first is that I'm a self-loathe and I like to set myself up in very bad situations. Maybe, maybe not. I think there's a huge mistake being made in ignoring this conversation. Now you say this world of podcasts, you're having a very limited definition of podcasts. You, Rogan, Poole, this is a very small part of what the podcast world is, right? You have a lot of different ideologies there. The media, the power structures,

do not understand why I would be here right now. I got the same message. I did a lot of prep for tonight. Because frankly, this was years ago, and I had to go back and understand the context of time, look at what you were saying at the time. And frankly, the idea that you were ahead of understanding is like saying a broken clock is right twice a day.

You didn't like things. You were right to not like them. I didn't like them. But to say you knew things is not accurate in terms of what I've seen and what you put out. They were operating on guesses. Now that gets much more powerful when we get into the vaccine. But in terms of the pandemic in general, the idea that we were doing things in the United States that were just so crazy is demonstrably false

because it was happening everywhere else in the world. So it's not like just the US decided to go batshit crazy and I couldn't wait for the ride. That's not the case. Why I'm doing this is, here's my big concern. I have no problem with you laying into me. And I think you're funny, and I think doing this is, here's my big concern. I have no problem with you laying into me. And I think you're funny, and I think you're smart, and I understand why he believes in you.

I do. Because I didn't know who you were. Now I've listened to 19 hours of what you do. Why you want to call yourself, as somebody who ever wants to be in politics, legion of skank? I have no idea why you want to identify with that word. But we'll talk about that after this tonight. Sure. no idea why you want to identify with that word, but we'll talk about that after this tonight. Here's what I want. Okay. And Pat knows this already.

Do we know what the vaccine is doing in people's bodies right now? No. Do we know what COVID is doing in people's bodies right now. No. I talked this week in preparation to be with you guys to two different people who are at the top of the research ladder of long COVID. That is a very pale distinction. They are paying very little attention to this. There are millions of people for whom COVID is not over. Every researcher I talked to said, we are understanding now that the reach of COVID, the flu that we have now is from 1918, right? Everybody knows that it's just changed over time. They believe that this is happening with the COVID virus,

which is in part why it's important to know where it came from, and they shouldn't have surrendered that. And we can talk tons about it, and I can talk to the dollars if it were Tony, but I don't believe that he should be the boogeyman in this I think China's the boogeyman and they can't get it China so they go with Tony but we'll have the conversation I want people to recognize and get behind a common cause that's why

I'm here okay this is not set up to go well for me that's okay I've been beaten up by you know people I'd rather be around, much less than you guys. So this is a step up. There has to be a review of the entire pandemic. A 9-11 style commission, where you get people who Dave likes, who Pat likes, who scientists like, who the right likes, who the left likes. We did the same thing after 9-11, and it worked.

None of them were currently in office. All of them were respected enough. They had a diverse set of opinions. They looked at the situation. They came up with a set of directives, and we followed almost none of them. So it can be flawed as well. You have to look at what you didn't like early on.

Masks, lockdowns, understanding of the case structure, what we did in schools, what we did in communities, what we did with businesses, then came Operation Warp Speed, what we did with that, then came the implementation of the vaccine, how we did that and why, mandates. All of it should be reviewed because I'm gonna tell you something, no disrespect, okay?

I study this all the time, okay, sometimes I'm taken out of context. I'm not vaccine injured. I had my symptoms before I got vaccinated. Could the vaccine be doing something to my body? Maybe. I don't mean to sound conspiratorial about it, but they do know that what they didn't know, and I'm sorry if it's too in the weeds, but I tell you, we can't just talk around this with clever slogans and digs. It's not helping us. We're not getting anywhere, okay?

They now know that what they didn't know at the time with the vaccine development, even though they used it for AIDS and Zika and Ebola, they didn't know that when they put it in my body and they put it in your body. Never made it into mine. The rates. I mean look, you can applaud it as a choice, but there are several facts, okay, that we know. One is they didn't know how much spike protein my body would make or for how long versus

his, okay? And that is huge in terms of deciding what kind of complications you can have. The idea that the vaccine is poison is demonstrably false. How do we know? Because of what happened once people started taking the vaccine here and everywhere else in the world. The correct pushback to that is, no, no, no, it hurt as many people as it did. That's bullshit.

The correct pushback is not everybody needed to take it and you made everybody take it and you shouldn't have. That is a legitimate grievance. I don't know the answer to that. I believe that with the later variants, we now know that this vaccine didn't do what it did with the earlier ones, and they should have changed the messaging. And they didn't. We know that I'm here to have the conversation you tell me what you're upset about. I'll deal with it. We'll talk about why I said what I said, I have no secrets. But what I want is not to slap Dave around in the debate and not to be clever and not to get applause and not for you to want to take pictures with

me at the end of the night. I want you to go home and say, sheesh, we gotta know a lot more about this and nobody is looking. That commission we have, one in Congress, and then I'll shut up, is a sham, okay? Where did it come from? Tony Fauci, we know where it came from.

It came from China. We know where it was. It was in from China. We know where it was. It was in a lab. We know who was working on it. It was China. We know who won't let us look in the lab. It's China. So that's your answer.

But what about all these other questions? They don't even care about them. The Trumpiest politicians that I talk to won't touch any of the things that we are talking about right now. That's what I talked to won't touch any of the things that we are talking about right now That's what I want to change and I'm happy to have the conversation All right, can I can I respond because there was a lot there so I want to try to respond to it I didn't mean to flood the zone. No, no, no, we can go one by one

Okay first of all when I describe the lockdowns that swept this nation in 2020 as Totalitarian just to be clear. I'm not being hyperbolic when you're waking up every morning describe the lockdowns that swept this nation in 2020 as totalitarian. Just to be clear, I'm not being hyperbolic. When you're waking up every morning to watch your TV, to find out from your governor what you're allowed to do today, including am I allowed to go to work? Am I allowed to have a funeral for my father?

Am I allowed to see my family? Am I allowed to step outside without a cover on my face? There is one word and one word only for that, and that is totalitarianism. I'm sorry. That's not slightly hyperbolic. Now, you could argue that this totalitarianism was justified because of the virus,

but it is certainly not hy... And it's not, but you could argue that, but it certainly is totalitarian. If we ever looked on paper, any of us at any point pre-COVID, and said this government is instituting this policy, we would all recognize that as being totalitarian. As totalitarian as any society has ever existed, if that word doesn't apply to lockdowns,

then it doesn't apply to anything. Now I've got to say, listen, in this world, and I'll say this is true for our world, for the corporate media, for any time you're getting in front of a camera with a lot of people watching and talking about things that matter, the currency that we trade in is the truth. That's the whole currency. Now it doesn't mean that you have to be right about everything, but it has to mean that I really believe what I'm saying.

And if I'm lying to the audience, then I've betrayed my most fundamental duty. And I would also put as a subset of lying, if I'm pretending I know something that I don't know at all, and I'm taking a very strong opinion, and with five minutes of research, you could find out that this is completely false, that's another form of lying. Now, sir, you have completely shirked all of

your responsibility and now you're pointing the finger at China. By the way, you were one of the people who demonized Donald Trump for calling it the China virus at the time. Okay? So when it was convenient for you, you had no problem smearing someone for pointing the finger at China. Your entire network also called everyone racist if we speculated that it came from the lab. I mean, literally, I did a podcast, it was either in April or May of 2020, when it already became obvious at that point

that the lab was at least a very plausible, you know, like we found out that three of the people at the lab went to the hospital with COVID-like symptoms, and there was a lab where they were doing gain of function research, and it was like, man, this sure does look like it. I had to stop talking about it for four months after that because I would have lost my entire YouTube channel, my entire, like that was it. It was very clear if you said anything about that for months, you'd be shut down. During that time, you guys at CNN were just mocking everybody who would dare say it was a lab leak, and then

we were unable to defend ourselves or those who did got their livelihoods ruined. I don't know what was happening on YouTube. I just want to be clear. I was not doing that. When when Donald Trump started off he was calling it the China virus. No no not initially. Initially he said it was gonna go away it was a cold. I don't fault him for that. He was getting a lot of mixed information and I know it. I don't blame him for that. He will be blamed for it, not by me.

Then it gets bad. That's when he started calling it the China virus. I said to him, ah, in the beginning you said China's been great to us. You can Google it. You can have that great producer you have. Look it up. China's been great. China's been working well. China's been great. Yeah, Rob, you're amazing. Then

it gets bad for Trump. Trump then starts calling it the China virus. I have always pursued the lab leak. I have always talked about it. I have always said it mattered. You can check and find out. You can boo, but remember that's about preference, not truth. Yeah, but Chris, do you not feel any responsibility for the fact that during this time in the greatest crisis in modern American history that you're up there, and we'll get into the vaccine stuff in a second, but just sticking, the lockdown governor every day, giving him the most softball interviews. I remember at one point when the scandal with your brother. But they weren't news interviews. You got a nice big rant. So let me get it.

In the middle of lockdowns. Rant for rant. Sure. So in the middle of lockdowns, think about this is more a comment on the network CNN than it is on you. But you said at one point a couple of years later, or over a year later, when your brother had his scandal. By the way, I respect you for always defending your brother.

I would always defend my brother. I understand that. But you said on air, on CNN, you said, listen, I haven't been allowed to cover this at all because it would be a conflict of interest for me to cover it. Yet during lockdowns, every single night, CNN allowed you to have the interview of your brother without any meaningful pushback at all. Listen I understand this is your family

I'm talking about and I don't mean to make things personal in that way. You kind of do, but I'm open to it. Well no I mean I don't but I have no other choice. Well you could be accurate which is... No I'm being accurate. You're not because nobody thought the interviews... What did I say that was inaccurate? Nobody thought the interviews I was doing with Andrew were news interviews. Well no one I know thinks anything on CNN is news. Okay. But.

That's fine. No, when it's on the cable news network, the presumption is that this is news. How many people in this room thought that when I was interviewing my brother, it was going to be a hardball interview and that's why you were watching. Because this is what Chris Cuomo is known for. Yeah, but that's the whole point. Come on, come on. But that's the point.

But he was other places giving interviews all day long. He was coming on at that time with me because people were enjoying the dynamic of getting some sense of familiarity and comfort in an uncomfortable time. That's what the draw was. He was getting asked questions all over the place. What I said I couldn't cover wasn't him and COVID,

was him in anything. It wasn't gonna be a serious news interview. And what I was talking about specifically was not Andrew and COVID, it was his allegations. No, I know, I know. Who wants to hear me talk about my brother's allegations and think I'm being attacked? No, it's a clear conflict of interest

as was you interviewing him about lockdown. It was not like that's the only place he was on during COVID. Who wants to hear me talk about my brother's allegations and think I'm being attacked? No, it's a clear conflict of interest, as was you interviewing him about lockdown. It's not like that's the only place he was on during COVID. OK, here's one person in cable news who did some real journalism, OK? Tucker Carlson. He got Governor Murphy from New Jersey on his show. And he asked him one simple question

that was never asked of any of the other lockdown governors. And you know what the question was? He had just shut down, it was either a church or a synagogue, I can't remember. And he goes, oh, wait a minute, so you just shut down this temple and arrested people for worshiping. Where do you get the authority to do that? Because I've read the First Amendment and it's pretty clear that you have the freedom of religion.

And so where do you get the authority to shut that down? And you know what Governor Murphy said? He said, well, I'm not thinking about the Constitution. That's above my pay grade. So just to make this clear, OK? That's a stupid answer. Yeah, it sure is. But you know what?

Your brother and none of the rest had a better one. They just never got asked that question. So here's no. But it has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Yeah, of course it does, Chris. Here's the bottom line. There's no clause in the constitution or the bill of rights that says unless there's a virus that we don't know that much about and then this all goes away. The point is that it was completely criminal for all of these governments to lock down. They had no authority to derive the

right to lock down a state from. And yet you, instead of anyone at CNN thinking, hey, if we have Andrew Cuomo on here every single night, maybe someone should ask him that question. They went, no, give him a cushy interview with his brother. Like, you don't find that incredibly corrupt? No, and here's why. Is that the only place that the governor of New York was? Is that the only access to media that they had to him?

So your criticism really goes to all media, but really what it is is an extension that you didn't like the lockdowns. It's not about whether there was legal authority for them. That's why there's been no lawsuit in the lockdowns that has proceeded in one because it wasn't about the authority of the government to use emergency measures in public safety situations. It's about whether they should have. And I'm totally fine with that. And you saw them all over the world, many more severe than they were in the United States and for longer.

But is it worth reviewing? Yes. What I'm saying is that my criticism would be that your interest is about how it generates attention. And that's fine, but it won't fix. I'm telling you right now if God forbid something happened again. We would be lost about how to do it differently and you have a

pocket of people 2535% who say I'm not going to do it. And you would lose that case again, you know, it's really wild Chris for you to psychoanalyze me and say my interest here is in generating attention. You're the guy who went at CNN said everything to defend the vaccine when you were being sponsored by Big Pharma and all of a sudden now that you're here on PBB you'll say the truth. I'm not sponsored by Big Pharma. I'm not against the vaccine. Hold on, hold on. You're not even listening to what I'm saying. You're attacking my motive saying all I care about is generating interest.

Meanwhile, when those CNN checks were coming in, you said nothing that would have put them in jeopardy. But now that you're here, you're starting to tell a little bit of the truth. So hold on. No, no, no. That's not true. I don't have a changed opinion about the vaccine. As I'm-

Chris, go look at the montages of what you were saying then to what you're saying now. You don't have a changed opinion. Absolutely not. And when Pat put out this clip, that Pat would, hold on. Look, we can talk about it. I'm not offended by the questions or the suggestion. Here's why.

Pat said that I wouldn't take it again if I could do it over again. It's not what I said. If they wanted me to take a booster right now, my doctors say it's not working for me. I have as much natural immunity as I'm gonna get. I got as much hybrid immunity as I can get. You make the same decisions.

They don't have the mandates the same way, except with kids in school protocols, which again I think should be on the table to discuss, because we are an outlier when it comes to our kids in schools and the vaccine. The vaccine, let's talk about it. What is your beef about the vaccine? Do you believe it didn't work?

No. It certainly didn't work at all in the way it was sold. When we spoke and I asked you about the vaccine to qualify this and clarify it, I said, if 2026, the second COVID comes in, and they mandate taking vaccines, would you take it? You said no. I thought we're talking about like if they need me to take another one for this virus. I specifically asked if another COVID comes out and they force us to take vaccines, no one would you know now, would you take it again?

You said no. Just to qualify, that's what you said. I thought we were talking about if it's this virus. Well, why would I lie? Why would I lie? You said no. Just to qualify, that's what you said. I thought we were talking about if it's this virus here. Why would I lie? Why would I lie about it? Let me just show something. Let me just show something.

Guy, I want to show something, because you said a couple things here. For me, you have to know, I'm America first, period. I'm about us figuring out a way to make this the greatest country in the world and keep it the greatest country in the world. That's what my priority is, period. My kids are here. I have four kids here. We all have kids, we're all family folks. We want to make sure this place is a safe place and the greatest country in the world.

Now, you said something. I've got the question for you. You said they tried to make Fauci the boogeyman. Yes. Right. Brother, when 9-11 happened, the one thing that they did during 9-11, they made somebody else the enemy, we all came together. During COVID, they never made China the enemy.

Pelosi went to Chinatown claiming how racist it was for what Trump did, and instead of making China the enemy, we made Trump the enemy. And America became divided, and that's why we have the shit show that we have today. So when you're saying like now we want to make Fauci the enemy, I have a problem with that. Because look how wild it is. Wait, those are two different things. Explain it to me, Pat.

It's not two different things. How? Because, well, you just said, you said, instead of making China the boogeyman, we're making Fauci the boogeyman. Yes. Yes. In 2020 March, instead of making China the boogeyman, we made Trump the boogeyman. That's what you did.

CNN did that. No. No, that's not what I did. So CNN didn't make Trump the boogeyman. Trump has always been the boogeyman for most of the media. Right, but... But it wasn't about COVID. Well, I'm just telling you, it wasn't about COVID.

He actually was the boogeyman. He actually got kind of a pass. Yes, he was the boogeyman far before COVID. Well, I'm just telling you, it wasn't about COVID. He actually got kind of a pass. Yes, he was the boogeyman before COVID. When you guys were repeating mindlessly every day that there was some giant conspiracy with Trump and Russia and leading the entire country to believe that our election had been stolen by a hostile foreign power and that Vladimir Putin had, you know,

and once again, like we won't get out of you tonight, not one apology from anyone at CNN when it turns out there was zero evidence that that was true, and you could say we just guessed right, but all of us who were paying attention knew from the very beginning that this was totally made up, and of all the things you could say about Donald Trump. How could you have known right from the very beginning

that it was totally made up? Because it was the most absurd claim ever. When the CIA comes out and says, Vladimir Putin has overthrown our elections and installed Donald Trump in there and presents zero evidence to back it up. That's not the investigation. That's not the allegation. Well, no, but it was what people on your former network

said daily. It was what people on MSNBC said daily. Not only have I never said that Russia put in Trump, I've never had anyone on my show who said that. Chris, let's just be honest here for a second. Are you gonna genuinely tell me that CNN and MSNBC did not every day for three years give the impression that Donald Trump was involved in a conspiracy with the Russians?

They absolutely covered the investigation into Donald Trump from a special prosecutor every day. MSNBC did it differently, I would argue, than CIA. Why was that special prosecutor appointed? Why was it appointed? Because the Attorney General thought he should be. Here's why, and he admitted it himself on 60 Minutes, if any of you guys wanna go back and listen to it.

Andrew McCabe, the number three guy at the Justice Department said, after Donald Trump fired Comey, his words, not mine, after he fired Comey, they decided to try to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove him on the grounds that he was unstable. And they realized they couldn't get enough of his cabinet to do it, so they settled on a special prosecutor.

That's why not a single one of them thought he was a Russian spy. Let me tell you something. Carter Page, the one guy who got in trouble from the FBI, as I'm sure you guys both know, why did he get in trouble? Because he lied to the FISA court. Because the CIA told the FBI that Carter Page was their guy. They knew he wasn't a Russian spy.

The whole thing was complete nonsense just to frame Donald Trump so he couldn't get his agenda through. And CNN ran with it every single day. The whole thing was complete nonsense just to frame Donald Trump so he couldn't get his agenda through. And CNN ran with it every single day. Unquestioning. Unquestioning about the story itself. I don't see it the same way. I don't think it was about keeping Donald Trump from having an agenda.

I do think there is a problem with prosecuting political opponents. And I do think that both of the parties engage in it. And I think it's another signal that the party system has to die. I agree with that. There is no world in which you can be skeptical to the extent that they're sharing information with you. But when you have a special prosecutor, right,

or special counsel, whatever you want to call it, and they are doing an investigation, you're gonna cover it. And you're gonna an investigation. You're going to cover it. And you're going to look at the information that they're saying coming out. And of course, there's always copious leaks, because of politicians involved. And you're going to do it.

Fox did it also. And they started doing it less and less, as they believed that it wasn't working for their audience. Which I understand the consideration. You can judge it any way you want. MSNBC was working very well. For CNN, it was more of a balance. But the idea, it was.

Because look, I had a show there. And you could- CNN ranged from Democrats who hate Donald Trump to Republicans who hate Donald Trump. And everything in between. Look, they were one of the only people who put Republicans on the payroll to talk about Trump. Which Republicans?

We certainly didn't get that at MSNBC. We had Santorum. Santorum, right. You don't like him either? No! He liked Trump. Who likes Rick Santorum? He liked Trump.

Although they did come up with a terrible name for what is a Santorum. I'm familiar. That was terrible that they did that to him, although he found it pretty funny. Anyway, the point is this. The point is this. I will defend CNN. And I know some people think that's strange

because I got shit can by CNN, I understand. I don't see it that way. I definitely got fired but that doesn't mean I'm gonna blame CNN. I'll defend it. However, it is not fair to make me own everything that CNN does because I don't control anything but my show. However, it is not fair to make me own everything that CNN does, because I don't control anything but my show. Okay, fair enough.

So that's fair. I'm also being critical of CNN here, but I will say, disclaimer for the rest of the show, anything I criticize CNN, that's true. You don't own the entire network. You only own your portion of it. So let me ask you. I couldn't have that much power, I got fired.

Fair enough. Okay, so let me ask you about what you do own and in the spirit of we're being honest here and our currency is the truth. Your reemergence from your basement, real or fake? Yes. You want the answer, I'll give it to you. Alright? Here's what I was told. The short answer is real. Here's what I was told. You were quarantined that whole time in your basement? Oh, yeah. You didn't leave. Oh, yeah. No, no. This is what happened. I was quarantined the time I needed to be.

I forget there was three days with fever below 99 or whatever the number was. You guys vaguely remember the same as I. I had a problem. I had fever for a very long time. They didn't understand why I had something to do with how my body was responding to this by protein we now know by based on my blood test now. I got to that point of being allowed to leave but I still had fever because my natural body temperature is not 98.6 it's 97.6. So for me, being just under 100, or whatever the level was,

I forgot, Rob, they can find out what the level was. I had it, but I didn't feel comfortable because I still felt sick. And at the time, the biggest names in our government, who I was in contact with, couldn't tell me what was the safest thing to do because I was afraid of getting my family. So what they said was, do it in stages.

So I would kind of come upstairs with the N95 on and I would try to get some energy, walk up and down the stairs. Then it was, I'm going to come upstairs. The house was, you know, because my wife was taking care of everybody because everybody was getting sick. And I would do a little bit of cleaning, come back down. Still wasn't living upstairs. Then I would come up, I'd start cooking,

because my wife got sick from me. That's a great thing to have over your spouse, by the way. So I then started coming up more. And I phased up and in. Our youngest, when I was coming up, finally I could move upstairs. Everybody was good with it. Christina had gotten sick. Christina had gotten sick.

Mario had gotten sick. The other two hadn't. It had been about 10 days past when I was supposedly allowed to come up. But again, I still felt like shit and I knew that I had a fever. I didn't have a fever by their definition, but I had a fever.

So then when it was finally over, they took the picture of me coming upstairs. There was so much appetite to take me down that that was seized on, as it was that I wasn't quarantining because I was seen in Southampton driving around with my family. No, I wasn't.

I was seen in my own backyard in East Hampton. And a guy drove into my backyard and saw me there and came walking over and said terrible things to my wife and kids and then sued me for it. So that's what happened. But so wait, hold on. I'm sorry. I'm just I'm confused because that was such a long answer

for such a short question. I quarantined in the basement. The picture that you saw. But you were outside with your family in the middle of it. No, not in the middle. It was after the period where they said I could come out, but I didn't feel right about it. So I was doing it in phases.

And the photo was from when that's it. I'm not staying in the basement anymore. I can be back up. I can sleep in my room. I can do everything normally. So that was, you're telling me that the that guy His rod. What is that? What is that? That's me coming out of this after this his confrontation with you. Yeah Yeah, and look the confrontation again look you and I live in different media realities

Okay, there is a currency to taking people down in the media. Okay I mean podcasts aren't strangers to that either certainly the skank one but that's it's a different reality for us. Okay, they want to take you down and during covid people were pissed off about what was going on I was one of the people who they blamed and they would come after me well I had people I had people come after me for not wearing a mask when I took a job well

listen, I mean yeah because you were a part of this corporate media apparatus that was shaming everyone who wasn't wearing masks outside, even though it was completely anti science rooted in nothing but pseudoscience. And might the reason be that so many people were angry at you guys? Because this is always one of the things that's been really fascinating to me. And I worked for CNN or I worked for Turner for about a year. This is before COVID. It was in 2017.

But it was always really fascinating to me to get a sense of the culture in that building. And by the way, before COVID, trust in media had evaporated and reached all time lows. After COVID, the corporate media will never recover. I mean, they are done. And it was always interesting to see how people at CNN would grapple with that. I mean, when Jim Acosta was sent out to Trump rallies

and they'd be screaming, CNN sucks. And then there'd be these segments on CNN about what a hostile environment it was for Acosta, you know, and this poor guy. And then every week, Brian Stelter would have a different show about why no one trusts the media anymore. And the report would always be, we're doing a great job. It's just this misinformation online. It's just Trump. It's just everyone else. And no one in the corporate media world, because they're insulated in such a bubble, seems to be capable of recognizing that the

reason is you. It's you. You don't think there's misinformation? Yes, there isn't misinformation, and you are one of the biggest purveyors of it. That's the issue. How? How?

That's a great question. But that is suggestive. No, no, no. Chris asked me how. That's suggestive that I say things that I know are not true. OK, no. So maybe I can't. That's misinformation.

Listen, wait. So I can't prove you know it's not true, but I can tell you this, when you, okay, so when you said, looking right into the camera, to your audience, and you said about the WikiLeaks dump in 2016, hey, it's illegal for you guys to look at this. You have to just trust us. It's different for the media,

so you have to get it from us. That's totally not true. What was I referring to? The WikiLeaks dump. No, but why was I saying that? I don't know. It's completely untrue. Under the Espionage Act, we didn't know at the time what would happen if things were deemed classified and you cashed them from online. I had three different prosecutors on who said

we don't know how it goes. The only time it's ever been tested is with the media in the Pentagon Papers case. So we knew that the media is given protection on classified documents even if they're leaked or stolen but we don't know about the general public. That's what I said. Then WikiLeaks jumped on my head. Okay, that's what I sign up for by being in the media I then said again we released all of the things as they came out all of Podesta's emails went right out We never censored any of them So all I was saying is be careful that we don't have to be as careful because we know that if they come after us for What we do will get protection. I don't know about everybody else. I'm sure CNN would get protection. I'm sure Julian Assange won't.

It doesn't matter whether you're a journalist or not. It's illegal to leak classified information if you're in the government. It is totally legal for any of you to read it if it gets leaked. And this is just not true. And hold on. It is true under. Oh, hold on. Under the. Listen, this matters. Do I think you should be able to download it?

Of course, it's not even a question, it's easy. Does it get a little weird? Yeah, it gets a little weird, because are we encouraging people to steal things and do things? No, I don't think so, but if it happens, I think you should be able to get it. If it's available, you should be able to get it.

Is that a little sticky legally? Maybe. The Espionage Act is not that clear about it. That was my concern. It wasn't listen to me and nobody else, okay? I've never played that game. That is what you said to your audience. I know, but you are making it mean something.

Well, the thing is that, look. That's why I'm here. I will tell you what I meant. Even in the Julian Assange case, by the way, if you guys wanna look into the details of it, the claim that they're trying to make was that somehow he was involved with Bradley Manning on the actual tape, which is not true at all.

But even they won't just say he wasn't allowed to read the classified information once it was leaked. One of the reasons we kept interviewing Assange is because we didn't know that that was true or fair. So why is it, Chris, when you make these mistakes, they always go in one direction on the behalf of powerful like you never seem to make these mistakes where it's just like oh by the way guys we don't know

about this vaccine that never came out of your mouth when you were when you were smearing everybody like me and my family who wasn't taking it for what he again at the beginning of the pandemic okay. They came up with this vaccine during the Trump administration to flatten the curve with the most vulnerable people and to stop what was happening in the health care system. And everybody remembers this. You can laugh and you can have fun with it because it suits your politics. But there was panic. There

were, there were, there were bodies in trailers all over the place. Oh, come on. You're talking about late 2020? No, no, no, no. I'm talking in the heat of it when they wanted this vaccine, when Trump was getting all this praise for making it happen, which I believe he deserved. So that's what they wanted to do. The vaccine with the first two iterations of the virus absolutely accomplished what they wanted it to. You can go online, you will not find anything that will tell you otherwise. That's just not true.

I mean, that's just straight up not true. Go ahead. Let me do something. I wanna play two clips. Remember what I said, the first iterations of the virus. Rob, do me a favor. When you're saying with the vaccine, I think the basic premise is why people are frustrated with this conversation that we're having today.

Why don't you play the highlight reel, Rob, the Joker one, if you know which one I'm talking about. Just play this one, and this isn't just you. This is what we had to hear. That's not me? No, no. Every day we have to hear, play this clip and then I'm going to go to another one and I'm going to turn it over to Dave. Oh, I know. That's the guy who bankrolled Osama bin Laden's daughter. Play the clip. You are the unvaccinated. You are the problem. It is the unvaccinated who are the problem. Period. End of story. The only people that you can blame,

the only people you can blame, this isn't shaming, this is the truth. Maybe they should be shamed, or the unvaccinated. It's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. Anyone you came into contact with will blame you, as will the rest of us who have done the right thing by getting vaccinated. Because frankly we know that we can't trust the unvaccinated. I think it's time to get our moral house in order, Anderson. It's the unvaccinated who are the threat.

All these vaccinated folks are going to start wearing masks to protect the unvaccinated folks. It's called a Christian value. You're basically punishing the vaccinated for the sins of the unvaccinated. People are not behaving honorably. The unvaccinated are basically saying, well, it's open season for me.

I can do whatever I want as well. The unvaccinated are basically beating their breasts and running around the country saying, ah, we don't care. We're living free and so forth. We've been patient. But our patients is wearing thin. Unvaccinated, a group that includes children and people acting like children.

And the rest of us are starting to get pissed off. The vaccinated feel the unvaccinated are making me upset or angry. This is not about freedom or personal choice. Well, my freedom is being kind of disturbed here. No, screw your freedom. The other day Howard Stern weighed in with a much different approach. Take a look. When are we going to stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say now it's mandatory to get vaccinated. They have freedom. But you're treading on our freedom and you're making other people sick and really you're

killing other people. The anti-vaxxers, they seem to have a thing for death and home remedies. The anti-maskers turned anti-vaxxers are not just putting their own lives at risk. If that was the issue, we could just say that we can watch them compete to win places, show in the Darwin Awards. We have to start doing things for the greater good of society and not for idiots who think that they can do their own research. And don't get me started on the lunatics who won't take any of the COVID vaccines.

Life is too short to be an ass. Life is way too short to be ignorant of the promise of something that is helping people worldwide. Maybe you're doing it because you're disconnected or disorganized. Maybe you have some sympathetic psychological reasons. But maybe you're just being antisocial. Oh, you can't shame them.

You can't call them stupid. You can't call them silly. Yes, they are. Those who are not vaccinated will end up paying the price. The unvaccinated should be taxed. They should pay more for health care. We need to start looking at the choice to remain unvaccinated, the same as we look at driving while intoxicated.

We're going to see, and I've said, almost two types of America. Dr. Fauci said that if hospitals get any more over-proud, they're going to have to make some very tough choices about who gets an ICU bed. That choice doesn't seem so tough to me. Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right on in. We'll take care of you. Unvaccinated guy who gobbled horse goo? Rest in peace, Weezy.

Pointing back to the unvaccinated who are really creating a problem in this country, every death that we are seeing from COVID could have been prevented. Literally, the only people dying are the unvaccinated. And for those of you spreading misinformation, shame on you. Shame on you. I don't know.

See, that's the frustration. How many of you guys are frustrated just watching this? Who's getting up to just watch this? So, by the way, I'm a business owner. When we talk about what happened during that time, according to Federal Reserve, the pandemic resulted in permanent closure of roughly 200,000 U.S. establishments shutting down. So this is families running a business for two, three generations, boom, gone. Restaurant business gone. Estimated the economic toll of the COVID-19 pandemic in the U.S.

This is according to USC Leonard Schaefer, $14 trillion by the end of 2023. So when we watched this and we're like, oh my God, you know, this is, and I was like, no, no, no, everything's changed. Four years later it's changed. We should move on. We should think about other things. People still haven't let this go.

Absolutely. People haven't let this go. And a big part of it, I think, is- Absolutely. That's why I'm here. Right. And I appreciate you doing this. But for me, Dave, what I think is going on is the following. Rob, play that clip with AstraZeneca if you could.

If you have that clip, if you know which one I'm talking about. So this is before when they're telling us that there's no risk, you don't have to worry about any of this stuff, everything's going to be fine. The before and after of this clip is very, very interesting. Rob, if you got it, to pull it up, go and play it, go watch this clip here. Now that COVID is back in the news, are you hearing people that are quite nervous? Can you raise the volume, Rob? One of the professors who worked in the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine is a pediatrician who is one of the most intelligent, sensible and honest people I know. And I spoke to him, I was lucky enough to speak to him because I worked in a documentary

that looked at the Oxford vaccine. And do you know what? There is no conspiracy. There is no fake news. The AstraZeneca COVID vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide after the pharmaceutical giant admitted it causes a rare and dangerous side effect. Government had no capacity to enforce any of this. You must wear a mask.

And people wore masks in New York. But if they said, I'm not wearing a mask, there was nothing I could do about it. Masks have been mandatory since April, and a fine for not wearing one took effect this week. It was really all voluntary. Wear a mask. It is the law, and the law is the law.

People who have got conspiracy, maybe anti-vax views, who believe now that they were deliberately misled over these vaccines. We've been developed quickly because we've sped up the process to make it more efficient. We still had all the safety checks in place. That has not been compromised. AstraZeneca admits its COVID vaccine. Show Pfizer going to keep going, Rob. Show me what I'm supposed to get from it. Show Pfizer, by the way. Show what happened with Pfizer stock during this time. When you look at all this stuff and you're wondering who's protected, who's not, this is just Pfizer and Moderna stock during that time. Rob, if you've got to just put it up there for us to see the image.

Very profitable season for these guys. These guys crushed it economically. Rob, do you have the image Right? Do you have the image? You don't have the image? I know if Brandon, you can text them to show them. So Dave, when you see this yourself, either one of you guys can take the lead on this. When you see this here, do you think there's a part of it where there's a community? I call the establishment, you call the establishment, whatever you want to call it.

They almost want the season to be gone without there being an accountability on the people that push the stuff to us. Whether it's Fauci, whether it's NIH, whether it's CD, whoever you want to put on that. Do you think they quietly want this thing to move on and we focus on other issues that we have? Oh yeah, of course. I mean, clearly they don't actually want to have a reckoning about any of this and the thing that I mean For for me and I'm sure a lot of people in this room

It's like it makes your blood boil to watch this and kind of relive it and remember that yeah and and just to think that right like you just mentioned the stock of the Big pharma companies and how much money they were making off of it look this is visor by the way check this up It's going pretty good for them. Hey, by the way, did that ever come up on CNN? Yeah. You think they ever had that graphic up there? Yeah. Because the whole point was they were making money.

They were also given absolute liability against any suits for the vaccine injuries. Yeah. Pretty corrupt. And it was a very weird combination of things we had never seen before. And the company said, we won't make it under Operation Warp Speed's guidelines unless you insulate us from litigation for this process. And the government said, OK, we need it.

And yet you guys spent every day, all day long, demonizing American people who were skeptical about this, demonizing the people rather than demonizing the powerful. So listen, 2,000, listen, let me just stay for a second. 2020 was the largest transfer of wealth in human history. And it was from the working and middle class in America to the millionaires and billionaire class. You can go look up the data on that.

They got richer than ever before. So you think that's what the vaccine was about no my point is that that went completely uncovered by the corporate press and instead they were just trying their best because the whole thing was it was an election year and you guys the Russia gate thing had failed and so this was the new attempt now to ruin Donald Trump and make sure he didn't get reelected and everything was framed through that lens how was it supposed to hurt Trump? He gave us the vaccine.

Okay, first of all, you were, when you're talking about, you're talking about different things here. Praising the vaccine did not come in until Trump was gone and Joe Biden was in, okay? It's right there. If anybody remembers at the time, as of the presidential debates, Kamala Harris said, I'll never take that vaccine if that's a Trump vaccine. And you and nobody else at CNN vilified her for saying that. No, they didn't.

It was not until the following year in 2021 when the vaccines were rolled out. Yes, it is true. Chris, you can keep interrupting me. You want it to be true, but it's not true. Chris, could you play me a montage like that of people demonizing Kamala Harris for not taking the vaccine?

When she said that, no, you couldn't. Okay, so I'm right. Oh, that's the standard? Yes, that's the standard. So you just showed a montage or whatever, Graveons montage, and by the way there are plenty more people on Fox News who are saying the same thing. You have Cavuto in there, I'll give you credit for that. For the record, Fox News was terrible on this as well. But what's the point? The point is, so everyone was in on it?

Everyone was in on it? No, just the corporate media and the government. So not everybody. So all of these people who get paid by contrast, right? These companies get paid by contrast, meaning they are looking for ways to be different than the other ones, but they just all wound up saying the same thing, which was just completely untrue. Yeah, okay. So again, to take on what you just said no not everyone and not everyone who gets paid

Joe Rogan is bigger than every single show at CNN combined and gets paid more than every single person at CNN Combined and he was 100% right about this thing through the entire time No, he wasn't. No he wasn't. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me get this point out here. Tell. No, he wasn't. Yes, he was. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let me get this point out here. Tell me what he was right about. OK. How about, you know what you just revealed last month

on Pat's show about Ivermectin? Joe Rogan was saying that, and you were smearing him for saying that. You literally said he's taking horse dewormer. He should be ashamed of himself. You pleaded with your audience to not take it. Then you come back around, and you go, hey, Pat, you know what I just found out? Turns out this thing isn't for animals.

Turns out humans are, but Chris, a five minute Google search and you would have known that. First of all, you're- How do you not apologize to Joe Rogan? Listen, do you know who disagrees with you? Do you know who disagrees with you? The people who make ivermectin disagree with you. About, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you. What do they disagree with me about?

That the drug should not be taken as a standalone for COVID-19. I never said it should. That's what Rogan was saying. No, no, no, no, no. He did not. No, listen. See, this is the thing, Chris. That is a lie. That is a blatant lie. So you just pretended that I said it's a standalone for COVID. No, no, no. Here's what it always was.

Here's what Joe Rogan said. My doctor prescribed it to me along with several other medications, just like your doctor prescribed it to you. That's what he said. What I'm saying is that it's not horse dewormer as you and everybody else at CNN mindlessly repeated. Now, he said, no, no, no, let me finish. Go ahead.

He said, and what I'm saying is that it is a medicine that's been prescribed to people millions and I think billions of times and it was totally demonized, why? You already said why. You said it two years too late, but you already said why. Because no one owned it. Here's why, what Pat has on his desk right now, you do not want to take, okay? It is the veterinary grade ivermectin.

People were so desperate to get it because they were told it was a panacea. It was a cure-all. By who? Who told them that? It was online. They were flooding it. Well, you just claimed Joe Rogan said it. You claimed I said it.

Neither of us have said that. So, who really said it? So, hold on. So, why was there a rush on ivermectin all of a sudden? Can I tell you my honest opinion about that? Okay, it's that the medical establishment and the corporate media so humiliated themselves that they lost trust with the entire American people and then yeah, there were some charlatans online who were saying, oh go take this and they trusted us.

Here's what happened. If you think Joe Rogan said, take any form of vile remectin you can get, and you'll never get COVID. I'm not blaming Rogan. Here's what happened. You should be apologizing to him. And again, listen. Listen.

Here's what happened. Here's what happened. Also, let me tell you why I think apologies in this context are a stunt. OK? We don't accept apologies. Nobody accepts apologies except as an admission that you weaponize. That's why that's why Trump never apologizes. He's right. Because if you apologize, everybody just beat you over the head.

Trump's got a lot to apologize for. And so I'm just saying that's a concept. And you should do on this. And I'll tell you what I apologize. Here's what happened. I've been it wasn't because the media said don't take it so everyone took it. The media would have never been talking about it unless people were taking it.

Use your head. So here's what happens. They're prescribing it like crazy. They actually stop physicians from being able to prescribe it, which I think was a mistake. They then start giving out veterinary grade Ivermectin, which as the word would suggest you shouldn't take, right? Doctors were prescribing veterinary? No, people were desperately trying to get

it online. They couldn't find it. Okay, ivermectin is the most studied potential treatment for COVID of all of them, which was a complete waste of money, and it was all done just to play on the politics of this. Merck that made ivermectin put out a statement during this saying we do not advise it to be used for COVID-19. You can't find research that is seen as impressive by the research community that proves that ivermectin is effective in treating COVID-19. I will find, Rob can find you a hundred studies right?

Listen, you're wrong on this. No I'm not. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why because they're mad at me too, by the way You think you guys are alone. So why are you taking? Here's why my doctor? I didn't take it during COVID-19 and I didn't take hydroxychloroquine when I was sick with COVID-19 Even though a lot of people thought they were being nice by sending it to me. Why because the research isn't there? That's why with long COVID with long COVID, okay? Not long VACs, that's a different thing. If it's gonna get recognized as such, I don't know.

They won't say that yet. Long COVID, they're now saying exists. There is research, is it dispositive? No. Do the people on the government levels in the research communities like that I said that I'm taking it. No, do they think I'm setting myself up for lawsuits? Yes, but my doctor, I believe is in the vanguard of

people who are figuring out long COVID. And she has a lot of the same problems, by the way, with me, and with the pandemic that you do. And she has found research and she's had her own experience and using it in a combination with many other things where she believes it may be able to help. Now, I've been taking it. I don't feel any better. Does that mean it doesn't work?

No. But that's why I'm taking it. It's safe and it's not horse paced. It is definitely safe. But it's not horse paced because it's not horse paced. That is horse paced. By the way, no one ever at CNN during this time, when they were all saying it's horse dewormer,

everyone was repeating, no one ever said we're talking about the veterinarian ivermectin. We're not talking about the ivermectin that doctors prescribe. No one ever said that. But listen, you told me I should apologize. So what do you think I should apologize for? And then I'll tell you what I think you should apologize for.

I know what you think I should apologize? I mean, I'll tell you what I think you should apologize. I know I know what you think I should apologize for. Obviously there was so much talk that they don't want you to take Ivermectin Ivermectin is the way to go take it Joe Rogan got better from Ivermectin by the way, I don't like what people did to Joe Rogan about Ivermectin I don't like you did it. No, no. You did find the clips. Dude find the clips you shame Joe Rogan find the city's

taking horse the-whirl. You and Don Lemon were chuckling at each other about it. I'll go find the clips. First of all, you just saw the clips. I'm not chuckling. I'm listening to Don. No, no, no. The clip I'm talking about wasn't on there.

And it's absolutely there. Oh, here. Do we have it? Hold on. Let's play the clip. Go ahead. Getting injecting drugs for animals and horse. people telling them to what person you know you talk about like you know cancel culture and who to shame Ivermectin a dewormer really they are shaming a dewormer. Chris, you can't apologize for that. You weren't being clear that it was this, and you know that, dude.

You're being so dishonest right now, man. I'm not being dishonest. You were talking about ivermectin, the drug. You were not talking about this version of ivermectin. Come on, man. I was responding to a situation where we were told that this is what people were searching out to take, and nobody knew what it was gonna do to them.

Look, I'm taking the drug right now obviously I don't think it's all poison. I stopped calling it the horse drug when you can you can not like it CNN's chief medical officer who is Sanjay Gupta said to me you shouldn't just call it a horse dewormer there's a whole legitimate aspect of the drug I wouldn't use it for covid-19 but it's not just the veterinary grade. So I stopped calling it that. And then I went away.

By the way, I don't know if you guys saw this, one of the best moments during the pandemic was when Dr. Gupta, who was just mentioned, went on Joe Rogan's podcast. For all the days of CNN demonizing Joe Rogan, they send their top doctor out there onto his show. And he goes, why is everyone on your network saying, I'm taking horse dewormer?

Iver Meckden's not. And Dr. Gupta looked down at his lap and went, yeah, no, they shouldn't be saying that. And then around there was a better, yeah. Sanjay was the one who corrected us. No, actually, after that, he went back and laughed, as Don Lemon called it, horse dewormer again. And then I guess later corrected you guys.

But then there was a moment, and this was the best moment. You've got to remember the context of this. This was during the vaccine passports, the point when people like me, and I'm sure a lot of you, were basically turned into second class citizens, weren't allowed to go into restaurants, weren't allowed to go to sporting events, weren't allowed to go into a lot of different office buildings, things like that.

And you personally, along with everyone at CNN, cheered that on. You mused and joked around when you were interviewing Dr. Fauci about what rights the unvaccinated should have. So Dr. Gupta goes to Joe Rogan and says, it is in the middle of all this, he goes, so are you going to get the vaccine? And Joe goes, no. I just had COVID. Why would I get it?

I got natural immunity. It's stronger than the vaccine. And Dr. Gupta went, yeah, that's a good point. He had nothing for him. He had no response. It's not. It's just like when you were. Listen, that's not even close.

Just accurate. Yeah, well, remember last time we played the clip and I was right? Remember last time? You weren't right about that either. You weren't right about that either. Chris, dude, you're in denial here, man. It's so clear that you said that.

Just admit it, man, and we can move on. Again, here's the main difference. You may not say it this way, but this is what I think you're suggesting. You believe that you were demonized for not taking the vaccine, and that was wrong because it was right to not take the vaccine. Okay, no, no, no. I don't first of all. I don't believe I was

demonized for taking the vaccine. We just played video proof of that me and it's not me. It's me and tens of millions of Americans were demonized to take the vaccine. Now when you say it was wrong because you weren't supposed to take the vaccine, I think and this is summing up a lot in a short period of time. I think there was a strong argument in the initial wave of covid. If you were old and sick and had never had covid it might have been a good idea. What if you live with someone

who was old and sick? Uh that probably wouldn't have done anything. Um literally it's not gonna stop. You're talking about no you're talking about. No, no, no. I do know what I'm talking about. The science is obvious on this. The first, look. Chris, you've got a lot of nerve not apologizing and then telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Apologizing, so what do you want me to apologize for?

For telling people to take the vaccine? OK, let's just stick with Joe Rogan. For mocking and smearing a person from the number one show at CNN and then years later admitting he was completely right about what he said. How is that not attached to an apology? If I ever smeared someone aggressively, and then two years later I had to admit that I come out and just say

all the things. What you said to Pat on his podcast was exactly what Joe Rogan was saying this whole time. You go, first of all, it's not horse dewormer. It's used on people. It's very safe. And my doctor prescribed it to me. That's why I'm taking it.

Yes, if I ever did that to someone, I would apologize for that. But it's not the right context. And right, first of all, it's both, right? It's veterinary grade and human grade. I was not making a mark. Which one do you think Rogan was taking? I hope he was taking the human grade if he was prescribed it. Which one do you think Joe Rogan, who just signed his second 200 million dollar deal, was taking? Do you think he was prescribed it. Which one do you think Joe Rogan, who just signed his second $200 million deal, was taking? Do you think he was stealing it out of the cat bowl, or do you think he had a doctor who prescribed it to him?

I'm sure they prescribed it to him. So then you guys were all wrong for demonizing him. I think that it was wrong. Look, you guys want simple answers. You guys want simple answers to this, and it's not simple. No, this is simple. simple answers to this. It's not simple. No, this is simple. This one is simple. It's not simple.

The vaccine question might be more difficult. This is really simple, man. The maker of the drug. You want me to apologize when the maker of the drug says don't use it for COVID, when all of the research says it is not effective for COVID. Well, okay, first of all, it's not true. So I should say Joe Rogan was right to say take it.

You are, Chris, you're on it. What are we even arguing about here? You're on the drug. Long COVID is different. Long COVID is different. Okay, so first of all, just to be clear, and this is essentially the truth, right? There were some

studies that seemed to indicate that if you take ivermectin early in a COVID infection, there seemed to be some positive benefits. Then there were other stories, other studies that basically said, no, we're not seeing that. Now I've heard a lot of experts and this goes beyond my pay grade, argued that those other studies weren't properly done. Whatever it is, the reason why doctors were prescribing it to people like Joe Rogan and millions of other Americans was they were like, look, it's a mixed bag with the study.

Some of them seem to indicate it might help. Some indicate it doesn't. But we know the drug. It's a people drug. And it's safe. So why not take this in your regiment along with a bunch of other things? That's the point.

And you guys demonized him for that. I think that's fair. Yeah. I think that's fair. OK. That that's why they were prescribing it. I don't think they were prescribing it to be reckless. No, that's right. I think that's why. Yeah. I think that's fair. Okay. That that's why they were prescribing it. I don't think they were prescribing it to be reckless. No, that's right.

I think that's why they're prescribing it. But here's the problem with what you guys want, okay? It is not some research says take it, some research says don't, okay? It's just not that way, all right? And it's not even close. I'm telling you, I have not spoken with anyone in preparation for coming here tonight,

who said, you can say Ivermectin works with COVID. Except for your doctor. That is, my doctor does believe it can be effective. So she's cool. With, she is cool. Her name is Dr. Robin Rose, and if you have long COVID, or someone you know has long COVID, look up Terrain Health, Robin Rose.

She's doing her best. But the point remains the same. The point remains the same. What'd he say? I don't, I don't got it. Say it again, I didn't hear it. Is she a veterinarian? Oh, that's funny.

That is funny though. That is funny. Can I, can I, let me, let me, let me say something on this and then we can, we can move on. You said something. That is funny. Let me say something on this and then we can move on. You said something. You said something. And I think, to me, you know how we talk off camera and we have some great conversations together and just listen to you guys right now.

I want to sit on the sideline and just listen to you guys speak. My job is to just go to the next door and let you guys talk. I have such an easy job today because my wife and I, right after this, we're going to spend the weekend together because on our anniversary, she is June 26th, which is our daughter's birthday. If we don't do it this weekend, we can't do it then, so I've got to go see her in the next couple hours. She's sitting out here. My 12-year-old son is over there. My Tico boy. Tico, can you stand up, buddy? Stand up real quick. Stand up, stand up, stand up so that I can see you.

Can you stand up, buddy, Tico? It's my son right there. So funny. He says, Dylan says, who said it? He says, you know, daddy, if something happens to you, Tico can run PBD Podcast, because he's also PBD, right? And my pop's also over here. But you know, I'm listening to one thing.

If you know my dad, he's the greatest man I've ever met in my life. But you know, when I'm listening to you, Chris, all I caught was one thing. I heard everything. All that? You only caught one thing? Trust me, it's just one thing. No, no, I'm telling you. And by the way, you have to understand, it's only one thing I caught about this whole thing.

What you want, you're not going to get. You said something. You said, in this world, if you apologize, they will never let it go and they'll always come back. Look at Trump, he never apologizes. So what that makes me think about, you either are following Trump's lead, then you agree with what Trump does is right, so you want to be like Trump. You know, I'm telling you this as a brother, you're like, hey, that's what Trump said.

Or on the other side, you're like, man, say if I go the other side and I say I messed up, then these guys are going to come after me for the rest of my life. If you go back and look at data on what happened with Joe, when all the Planet of the Apes stuff that came out, I don't know if you remember that when he came out with Spotify, you know, Daniel Eggt defended him. He came out and he made a video, I don't know where the video was by his cold, it was somewhere outside, he was just making a video and talking openly.

And he's like, you know, we shouldn't have done that, you shouldn't have done this, you shouldn't have done this. You know what the world said? You know what? Frickin' A, good for this guy for apologizing. Are you kidding me? You're talking about the stuff in his comedy act? Yeah.

The racist stuff. Well, I mean, all the stuff that they put together saying I listened to some of this stuff. But that's what they made him apologize for. Well, it of the stuff, but that's what they made him apologize. Well, well it's not about that's what they made him apologize. No one made him. No, so, but the point you don't think that the money he was getting from that company came with them having leverage over what he apologized for him. We didn't. I happen to have, I happened to know about this and he's a good friend of mine. Joe Rogan is the boss of bosses.

He could have done whatever he wanted to. And he apologized because he felt bad about it. Yeah, that's the truth. So then if what you say, what you just said right now, you're saying the bosses made him do that, then the argument goes with you to say the bosses made you defend the vaccine and go up against the ivermectin because the bosses pained you made you do that and you didn't do that. Is that correct?

No. The boss has never made me. I wish I could give you guys the defense. If CNN made me do it. But it can't be right on the broken side. Like Tucker says about the war. But it's not right on the CNN side. No.

There's no parallel. By the way, I have to say, what Tucker says about supporting the Iraq war is I was wrong and I'm so sorry for doing that. That's what he said. I know. But no, no, no. That's not what he says. He says Fox confused me and duped me into believing. I literally just had a conversation with the

man face to face a couple weeks ago about this. He said I'm so ashamed of it and I'm so sorry that I supported the war. He definitely says it. And by the way he was the number one guy in cable news until he left and now he's one of the number one guys on the internet. I totally get it. You can apologize. It's not about not apology I apologize all the time what I'm saying is the reason you're asking for it here is just as a simple gotcha Trump is right that it's not a lot of guys in this dynamic. That's all they want Let me just say everybody time so we can go to the next four topics. Is there anything you regret? When you did during that time?

Yes, so here's what I would have done different. One, I would have never been on TV, even though it's the thing I get thanked for most in 25 years of doing this. I would not have been on TV when I was sick. It extended the illness. I think it may have been why I wound up having these extended symptoms, because I didn't let myself,

I didn't let myself beat the fever. I should have done that, okay? Two, I wish that I knew then what I know now about being, about watching what was happening in the country with the second, third, and fourth iterations of the virus. Because things changed. Now, I'll give myself a little bit of a defense in that I wasn't on TV for a year of this. But I was there when it started to change.

We saw breakthrough infections. And what that meant was there was an opportunity for me to say, wait a minute. I thought there wasn't supposed to be any infections. And there was a messaging mistake that I didn't know better than tend to say, but now I do. What Rachel Maddow has that gotcha clip on her all the time where she says you get this and you don't get, you don't get COVID, you'll never get COVID. That was never true, but that is what we were told.

And even the scientists who were working in Operation Warp Speed had confusion about this. The vaccine always worked the same way, which was you don't get enough of viral buildup to get very sick or die. And they assumed, and it was this way in the beginning that because you don't get a lot of virus unless you're a super spreader you won't be as contagious for other people but that changed and I wish that during that

change I had seen it for what it was and said wait a minute you got to change the mandates you got to change how you see the booster and you got to change how I had seen it for what it was and said, wait a minute, you gotta change the mandates, you gotta change how you see the booster, and you gotta change how you message this. Because there was a lot of drama and pain that happened in those later iterations, and a lot of loss. Chris, anything to apologize for. Apologize.

Anything to apologize for. I... Do it. So Chris, do I have the time? Hang on, hang on, hang on, let me just say, open-ended, anything to apologize for. So, Chris, do I have the time? Hang on, hang on, let me just say it. Open-ended, anything to apologize for, anything. I did not do anything on purpose that I thought was wrong. So, whether it was or not, was there, was there,

whether it was or not, listen, sometimes in life, we, you're married, I'm married, I've been married for 14 years, 15 years. I apologize all the time. That's the point, but sometimes we do stuff, whether it's intentional or not, sometimes we do things. And then we say, listen, I have to stop. That's because I want the other person to be okay. And there's millions of people to listen to.

I know, but here's the problem. You're the minority. There are a lot more people who, if I were to say, which I do not believe, I do not believe, I do not believe, okay, that I should have never said that people should take this vaccine early on. I should have never said that. I should have never said that

when people change their position, you said there was no change until everybody loved the vaccine with Biden, no. Early on with Operation Warp Speed, I lived it. I watched the process. Everyone was celebrating that Trump got this done. All the Republicans were celebrating it. That's why Kamala Harris said what she said.

She was playing stupid petty politics and saying, I won't take any vaccine that's Donald Trump. That was stupid for her to say it. Then it switched and the same people, the clip you have with me and Byron Donalds, who I respect as a lawmaker, I love having him on the show. I like to hear his name in the conversation about being VP.

He went from vaccine is great. Amazing that Trump did this. I got it. My wife got it. This is awesome. To all the sudden, I don't know about this vaccine. All that changed was that Biden came in. That's what I was attacking so vehemently.

I make no apologies for that. If you're this hung up on the Ivermectin thing, here's my problem with it. I don't like that Joe Rogan got beat up for taking it. I don't think anybody was in the right to say Ivermectin was something you should be taking instead of the vaccine or if you have it. We don't know that that's true.

Even the maker of it says it. So do I like that Joe Rogan got beaten up? No, I don't like it. And to the extent that- But you beat him up. You're saying it like someone else did it. It was you. But here's the thing. Here's the thing, okay? I mean, you But you beat him up. You're saying it like someone else did it. It was you. But here's the thing. Here's the thing, okay?

I mean you didn't beat him up. You don't want to fist fight Joe Rogan. Here's the thing. Listen, I like what Joe Rogan does. I respect his success. I'm certainly not afraid of him, okay? What I'm saying is... That's a good way to get a spin kick in the chest talking like that. That's his choice. My choice is to say this the chest talking like that. That's his choice. My choice is to say this. I don't like that he was demonized. But for me to say, hey, you know what?

Nobody should have come after him for putting it out there that Ivermectin was what he was taking and that's what you should do. Because the research doesn't support it. So it's not right for me to say that. Listen, all the research that supports this shot is a two part answer. That emergency youth authorization, they need to go back and review why it got it. And they're never gonna do it right now

to a bit of what Pat was saying. Right now, here's what you have. Blame versus silence. You guys are the blame side. I want apologies, I want a reckoning, I want this, I want that. No, honestly, I don't take it that way. Listen, but this is why they won't talk about it. But hang on.

I'm telling you why they won't talk about it. No, I don't think so. You know, you know, hear me out. Hear me out. I'm telling you, my dad told me something one time. He says, listen, be very careful when everybody says good things about you. Because one thing in America is they'll turn you into hero overnight, and they'll turn you into zero overnight.

Then he said the following. He said, but this is the great thing about America. What America loves more than anything else is a redemption story. They want to see you make a comeback. They want to see you go from here you are, fall, they kick your ass, then you're like, ay, Eftah, you know what, this is America, most of us are Christians, come back, we believe in forgiveness, and then you can make some kind of a comeback

that may take a few months and a couple years, but then they're like, okay, what, we all made mistakes. Pat, that's the opportunity that you had. I don't see that opportunity, here's what I see. I understand you don't, but I understand. I gotta tell you, here's why. Because you believe that the way you see it is the only way to see it. And that's not the way it is.

No, no, I disagree. I disagree. And let me tell you why. Tell me. You said out of everything we've been going for an hour and 25 minutes, out of everything that's been said for an hour and 25 minutes, you said, I'm so sorry. Fouchy's going down. No, no, no.

I am so sorry. You said out of an hour and 25 minutes you said I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You said I think Trump's right for not apologizing. As a tactic. And you're using his tactic. I did not do anything that warrants an apology. Can we go over some more? We're moving on. We're not staying on this thing. You said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said,

you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you said, you thing. Warps me the whole levels to be able to go, oh yeah, go ahead and take it guys. If you don't, shame this. So that's a mistake, bro. That's a mistake.

And then at the same time, like if you screwed up, boom, let's move on. At this point, I know it's not going to happen. So I want to give a quick shout out to one of our sponsors. Can you please have a guy named Tucker who's our sponsor here, he's got a couple of words to say. Go ahead. I was doing the same thing. I wasn't working on a construction site when I was 25.

I was in the political media in Washington and I stayed there from 1991 to 2020. I look back at myself and I'm like, I can't believe, for example, I supported the war in Iraq. Why did I do that? Now, I think to my credit, I went to Iraq in 2003 and realized I'd been completely wrong and I said so. I didn't continue to lie, but I did go along with things I was uncomfortable with. I didn't ask difficult enough questions and I wound up supporting something that was really bad for the United States and evil

in my opinion. So why did I do that? Part of it was I was young and stupid. Part of it was, I think, if I'm being honest, this was not conscious But it's still true. I felt vulnerable, you know, I had at the time three kids I've got a mortgage like do you really want to pick a fight with everybody? When you're 31 and you're just trying to like pay tuition and keep your shit together Maybe you don't and I think it's an age thing to a certain extent. Like at a certain age, whatever it is, if you're in the same business,

and you feel like you've sort of done what you set out to do, you're like, I don't really need to impress anybody at this point. I'm not in debt. Speaking for myself, I'm not rich. I will never be rich, I'm pretty sure of that. But I'm not in hoc to anybody. I don't owe anybody anything.

And my kids are grown, so it's like, you know, why would I ever lie? I'm just in hock to anybody, I don't owe anybody anything, and my kids are grown, so it's like, why would I ever lie? I'm just in a different place. And so you... Okay. So, by the way, if you read into what he said, he said, I played along because I didn't want to go up against everybody, because I needed to make money, because I had to support my family, because I had to go... and this is a guy that his show flopped on MSNBC, they were not watching it, I think it was before MATA

or whatever the show, the timing was that they had to move on and come back and make a resurgence, and boom! Goes and becomes number one, 3.3 million viewers on a nightly basis, does well for himself, makes his money, and now you know where he's at right now, you know what he's got? You know what he's got right now. Oh, let me tell you what he's got right now. He's got, you know what he's got right now. Oh, let me tell you what he's got right now. He's got this thing. The only thing in there that he kind of went like this a little bit too quickly.

He's got this thing called F.U. Money. You know what I'm saying? I think he's had it a long time. And Joe has this thing also called the F.U. Money. And it's funny that both of them have to kind of go through the process of that to have the F.U.

Money. And I think it's a great example for us to do that. Now I want to transition to other stories, but here's what I do want to do. If you're watching this, the way you get to vote for today's debate so far, because we got a bunch of other issues we've got to talk about right now with Trump, convicted felon, migration, dual citizenship. I'm not done, we're just getting started right now. You get to vote by sending a Manect to Dave Smith and to Chris Cuomo, if you can put their

Manect up, ask him any questions, anything you agreed with, disagreed with, papers, articles, whatever it is, this is the way to get connected with them. They're both on Manect and they actually get back to people very quickly. I actually think Chris is top three fastest to get back to people on Manect, and I think out of everybody, he's got 100% five star, except for one, and Dave Smith gets back to people quickest by the way. You gave me a zero, you bastard.

All right, let's go to the next story. We're not getting the apology tonight, folks. So afterwards, we'll get our part, that's all good. All right, let's go to the next thing. Unless if you want a last chance to apologize. If you don't, we can skip this thing. All right, let's go to the next story. He gave me the look that to apologize. If you don't, we can skip this thing. Alright, let's go to the next story. He gave me the look that he doesn't want to do it.

Alright. Tucker, I'm sorry, Trump, a convicted felon. Reaction to it yesterday, let me just read some of the stuff. 34 counts, we know it. Up to 136 years he can go to jail. The $130,000 payment to the adult film actress Stormy Daniels, etc., etc. When you saw that date date your reaction to it? Um, well, I mean look and I just do I know this is like a disclaimer

But it is just the truth because I just so you guys know where I'm coming from I am NOT a Trump supporter and a lot of my audience wishes I was I've not I've been a sharp critic of Donald Trump through his entire administration not for the reasons that the corporate press is a critic of Donald Trump for his entire administration. Not for the reasons that the corporate press is a critic of Donald Trump for different reasons. But look, this is just so obvious. I mean, for anybody who's being honest with themselves, look at this. This is a maybe misdemeanor.

It's a glorified misdemeanor that they've turned into 34 felonies. It is totally appalling. This is a result of the justice system being weaponized. And they had this in New York where they know. I mean, getting a jury to convict Donald Trump in New York is pretty easy. People hate his guts there.

And it's a major moment in the history of the United States of America. One of the things that I hear a lot of Trump critics will say, which to me is the most, you ever hear the red pill, blue pill analogy? Like in The Matrix, you either have the red pill or the blue pill. It's the most blue pill thing I've ever heard, where they

go, no president is above the law. You go, except all of them are. You know what I mean? All previous presidents are above the law. Except all of them are. You know what I mean? All previous presidents are above the law. And there's been major crimes committed by presidents throughout the entire history of the United States of America. I mean, obviously, people know that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney instituted torture.

Barack Obama had American citizens drone bombed without charges pressed against them. I mean, there's all types of things that you could prosecute former presidents for. And there's all types of war crimes that you could prosecute Donald Trump for. But they don't go after him for that, because then their next guy would be open to being

prosecuted for war crimes. So they're going after him for every little thing that they can get. Look, the United States of America, our government, has done some bad things in our past. We've lied the American people into wars many, many times, many, many times. World War I, Vietnam, Iraq.

This is something different. We've never done this before. We've never weaponized the justice system against a former sitting president of the United States, who by the way, was framed for treason by his intelligence agencies while he was president. And now they're weaponizing the Justice Department against him while he is the overwhelming front runner to

win the next election. It's a truly wild time to be alive. Chris. The reason they don't go after presidents is because of presidential immunity, which they're litigating right now. So the idea of you make more decisions than this and that sounds great, let's get them.

It's not how the law works. It's never worked that way, that's why you haven't seen it. I agree with your analysis of this case. I've never liked it. I don't like that Brad jumped the line because I think that he wound up ruining what was a legitimate legal look at what happened in Georgia, which now I don't know that it's gonna happen

because of that immunity argument, although I think it will lose. This was a misdemeanor that was trumped up to felonies. To call it 34 counts is laughable, because the 34 counts are different checks that were signed to pay back Cohen. This district attorney has no problem knocking down significant felonies to misdemeanors.

He did it 70% of the time. Now, the people of New York City can judge him, and if they like the policy, if they like, he made an argument why he was gonna do that. But the same guy who does that then did this to Trump. He campaigned on going after Trump. And you don't make this case against anybody else. And the same thing goes for the attorney general

in New York, and yes, she went after my brother, so maybe I'm just saying it because she did that. I'm not, but have at it. You don't bring the case of two sets of books that you brought against Trump. Did he have two sets of books? Yes. Did he have Michael Cohen pay off these ladies

and try to hide it? Yes, he did it. Should it have been prosecuted as a felony? Absolutely not. Does it embolden his case that everything that happens in America is corrupt? Yes, and I think that's a big tragedy. So what does this mean to him?

My analysis of it is this. The only way it hurts him is if in specific states, people who are called persuadables right now, which is really not fair because what they really are is in my interviews with these populations, I don't know which one of these is more frightening to me, so I don't know yet. That's not really a persuadable. A real persuadable is, oh, I like what Dave is saying,

you know, but not 100%. You know, if Cuomo could help me a little bit more on these issues, I may go for him. That's a persuadable. This is just people who are just so disgusted. They don't know which way to go. This may move the needle in states with that population in a way that could hurt Trump, but I think he's going to raise a lot of money off it. He already has. And I think it was a case that should not have been brought and it was brought for the

wrong reasons. All right, just a couple things on that real quick because I don't agree that it's presidential immunity that's the reason why previous presidents haven't been gone after. I mean, look, when Barack Obama was first elected, remember this is not Barack Obama the president, or it's the very beginning, but this is Barack Obama the candidate in 2008 who was talking about ending wars and closing Gitmo and reinstituting habeas corpus and all these type of things. There was a lot of pressure on him from his left-wing supporters to prosecute George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and

other top members of that cabinet for war crimes that had clearly been committed. And Barack Obama gave a speech about it. And he conceded. He goes, yes, we tortured some folks. That's good. He just said it. And he goes, but, we tortured some folks.

That's good. He just said it. And he goes, but now is the time to look forward, not backward. Which is a weird thing about prosecuting crime. Typically you have to look backward in order to do it. But my point is just that, listen, the way things really work in the real world is that at the highest levels of power, there's no such thing as law.

At the highest levels of power, all that matters is what's their political will to do. The truth is there was no political will to try George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for war crimes. There is political will to stop Donald Trump for this. Look, I know you're a lawyer, and I'm sure you would kind of agree on this, that look, if you had Donald Trump on videotape stabbing someone or something like that,

or you had some clear crime that he had committed, and you went, look, we typically don't go and prosecute former presidents, but look, I mean, this is just so, like, egregious, we cannot. This is, every single one of these cases are novel legal theories, where they've come up with some philosophical way where they can spin.

Well not all of them, but these two New York ones, yes. Okay fine, where they can spin this into something that they never would prosecute otherwise. Just so everybody understands, a hush money payment isn't illegal. No. It's not illegal to pay someone to say, hey don't tell anyone about this.

No, it's just a contract. That's right, it's not illegal to pay someone to say hey don't tell anyone about just the contract. That's right It's just a contract what they're saying is that this was a campaign expense and he didn't itemize it on his business records the right Way and co and with Cohen's testimony in this I mean, it's pretty wild that they actually got well They got him because of the checks. Okay, cuz Cohen they had to know you can't believe Michael Cohen But the problem was, this happened. You know, the tape, you have Trump and Cohen talking about, it happened, and Cohen is a rapacious liar, that's true. And you can not like him for that, but Trump did it.

It's just not a felony. And yes, they've gone after people for having two sets of books. Not people like Trump and in these circumstances. Now, what I get beaten up for when I'm in a different room is that I say there's a thing called prosecutorial discretion, all right? The idea that if I have the facts on Dave Smith,

I'm gonna prosecute him 10 times out of 10, it's not true. There has to be policy involved. Is this something I really care about? Is this the kind of crime we're trying to stop? We live this in your state too, DUI. DUI used to be no big thing. They had three different levels of it. Then all of a sudden it became a big policy

and now we all know, I'm sure in our own personal lives, God forbid that happens, how big a deal it is and they're definitely gonna come for you. These crimes are not those things. The Georgia case is something different. I don't know that you'll ever get to hear it. I do're definitely gonna come for you. These crimes are not those things. The Georgia case is something different. I don't know that you'll ever get to hear it. I do see it a little differently though. I believe that this society does have administration of justice under law.

Is it perfect? Of course not. Compare it to other places, looks a little better. But we haven't figured this out. You said novel legal theory as kind of like a pejorative about those New York cases, and I think you're basically right about that. Certainly this one that we're talking about.

But there is this issue of this constitutional mechanism that if you're a president, you have to be impeached and removed, and then you are subject to the law. So, you know, and then people say, you saw, I don't know if you guys follow the Supreme Court thing, it was actually pretty interesting,

where he was like, so what if Dave and I are running for the same office and he decides to just shoot me in the head while he's president of the United States? Is that okay? And his guys were like, yeah. Especially Joe Biden can't lift a gun. But he'll take you out back.

He'll take you out back. So, you know, here's something that I think I struggle with a lot in this business. And this is a Jordan Peterson quote. You have to ignore single factor explanations for complex situations. It's tempting, you want them. You want it to be simple, you want it to be obvious.

But very often it isn't. Even this situation with Trump, which I think politically kind of net-net probably winds up helping him and hurts all of us. Bill O'Reilly suggested to me on my show last night that Joe Biden should do the right thing for the country and pardon Donald Trump. He said he should call Governor Hokel,

state crime, he should call Governor Hokel and say pardon Joe Biden. Thank you, genius. Well, if you'd let me finish, you would've heard it. So, but here's the problem with that. What happens if Joe Biden did that? Joe Biden pardons Trump of any federal crimes, okay? And Hokel clears him of this shit

so we don't have to live through the sentencing. All right, and just so you know, when he is sentenced, July 11, he's gonna appeal. have to live through the sentencing. All right? And just so you know, when he is sentenced, July 11, he's going to appeal. They're going to go to sentencing. Even if he is sentenced, I was wrong about this case. I thought it would be hung. And I don't think the guy is going to sentence him to time.

I could be wrong again. But even if he is sentenced to time, you're never going to see him in a jumpsuit. He is going to appeal. And there is no reason to have a first-time offender incarcerated for an offense like this, even though it's a felony, it's an e-felony. Well listen, I'll say- It's 34, but it's sentencing, it's going to be the same transaction. It's not that they caught him 34 times.

I would say if you zoom out to kind of try to appreciate the Trump phenomenon. And again, I'm not I've never voted for Donald Trump and I'm not planning on voting for him this time. I'm not I'm a big critic. I think he failed in a lot of important ways. I think his appointments were terrible. Government spending going up every year was terrible. His handling of covid was terrible.

OK. There are some things I like about him. But if you zoom out and just try to look at this, what Donald Trump really embodied, and I think this was something that you guys at CNN during the rise of Donald Trump could never quite grapple with, and I think it's something that in the corporate media in general they had a tough time grappling with, was that people were so furious at the establishment that they went with the biggest middle finger they could get toward the establishment. And he basically was pointing his finger at DC

and saying drain the swamp, these guys are all stupid, they all make bad deals, I'm very smart, I'm gonna make great deals, they've ruined the country. This was even at the center of his slogan, make America great again, there's an accusation in there. Right, that's like you ruined the country. And now I have to come back and save it. And this made everybody in the political and media class

so furious that they lashed out and attacked Donald Trump. And then of course that made him that much more popular with his base because the whole reason they liked him was because it was a big middle finger to you guys. And it's not like social conservatives thought Donald Trump was their god. You know what I mean? It's not like they were like, yeah, he really believes in Jesus or something like that. But then as he starts pissing off all these powerful people more so that he has the entire

media class against him, then you have between the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Steele dossier and the CIA and the FBI getting involved. They all basically try to frame him for treason. And they do this for years. You don't think Comey gave Hillary a mortal injury near the end of that election? I think he was, yes I do, but I think he was forced into it. Really? Yeah, I think basically, well listen, let into it really yeah, I think basically I think well Listen, let me just make the point on making we could we could get into that if we want to but as you look at this

So they frame this guy for treason He ends up beating that although they certainly boxed him in and he wasn't able to get through a lot of the things he wanted to then in the year 2020 you have what is Close to a color-coded revolution as you can get in the United States of America, between the protests in the streets, the attempted false flags, like they did with Governor Whitmore, the October surprise trying to frame Donald Trump supporters, like this is what the anti-lockdown Trumpers like.

They overhaul the way we do voting in this country. Feel however you feel about that. And Donald Trump is removed. Since then, he announces he's coming back running for president. And then the Justice Department is weaponized against him. His home in Mar-a-Lago is raided. All of these cases come down against him.

There is, we are, I know Tucker Carlson made this point once, but we are escalating here. It's, you kind of wonder if you map this thing out, where exactly are we going? And it seems to me, from my perspective, that the most powerful people who really run the government, and this never comes up on CNN or MSNBC or Fox News, but shocker American people who are actually a lot smarter than

the people of those networks think you are, did you know that the government isn't run by democratically elected officials? Were you aware that there's shadowy three letter agencies that have much more power than the democratically elected officials? Well, those people are letting you know that Donald Trump is not acceptable

and he will not be president of the United States again. Now what they're prepared to do to make that happen, well yeah that's the big question, we'll see. I wouldn't put anything past them. Look I don't know about the them, I've been doing this 25 years, I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that the FBI is a bunch of lefties. I can't tell you, they're not lefties, I can't tell you how different that is than my experience. Good men and women do the job for the right reason, nine times out of ten. I never really had a good relationship with the FBI until Trump was president because all of a sudden he started attacking all the institutions in my opinion unfairly in a lot of cases and all of a sudden I was defending

these people who always hated because they would never give me any information about their cases. You know I think there's too much at CNN defending the institutions, you know? Maybe that's not the job. Well, I'll tell you what. It was a weird... Look, that's a good argument to make. And it was a weird situation to be in because I've never had anybody in power attacking

everything around them unless it served his purposes in the moment. And it was definitely very odd, even though I had a very strong indication going to those rallies that we were missing the value of his celebrity and how important it was for people to have an agent for their animus. And I thought he was going to win, and I was right. I thought he was going to lose. That was pretty easy. I mean, you know, the election wound up being very close But he was in he was in bad shape and people wanted him out. So that wasn't I think this time

He's got a very good chance to win. I don't know about Deep from Trump's got a very good chance. Of course. He does Yeah, deep the election if there was a fair election held today, I think there's no question. I'll tell you what though that I I Don't know because it's going to be very close and unfortunately the election comes down to about 30 counties in the United States and there's only one reason for that and it's something that you probably believe more than I do. The party structure in this country is not a creature of the Constitution. We all know that, right?

It's not a creature of law. It's just a tradition. It's a choice. The problem is it's a club structure where everybody in power has gotta be in one of the clubs. Right, that's the problem that the GOP is dealing with right now. You can't say you don't like Donald Trump

because you're gonna lose a primary because very few people vote in primaries. The state party controls the primary and they're gonna beat you because he's gonna cut their money if they don't come after you. And I'm not faulting him for that. That's the way the game is played.

If I could wave a wand, you know, and not deal with anything that matters to all of us, like the health of our kids and our families and stuff, but our collective polity, if we could get rid of the two party system in this country, we'd be in a way better place. And here's why. I'm not a huge fan of polls.

You can't find a poll where you won't find three out of four of Americans have the same concerns. Three out of four common concerns about what you want to see happen, what you like, what you don't like. It's never on the agenda. It's never discussed. One of my problems with this case is we got at least two weeks now of lawfare coverage and And two more weeks where nobody's going to

talk we're not talking about long COVID. That's for sure. We're not going to talk about any of these things that happened during the pandemic. Nobody's going to bring it up. Bobby brings it up. When Bobby comes up when RFK Jr comes on the show, he says he would be in favor of enlisting a pandemic review. I have not gotten a response from the Trump or the Biden campaigns about it. And I don't blame them. If I were them, I would want to move on also.

But if you could get rid of the two-party system in this country, I'm telling you, you'd be in a much better place. Okay. So let me give you a couple dates here. So the date that they put it for the judge is when? July 11th. July 11th. July 11th. Okay, the debate is June 27th.

Yeah, you can do it. The RNC is, I believe, July 15th. Four days after that. Right? How much do you think it's intentional for them to put the hearing four days before to make it unpredictable that maybe, just maybe, they're watching right now, Democrats would only do this, assuming this is going to hurt Trump, right? Right. But reports just came out, Rob, if you can pull up the reports from CBS.

In the month of April, he raised $50 million, compared to $25 million Biden, just in the first 14, 15 hours of what they announced, he's raised $53 million. You guys hear that? $53 million he's raised in less than 24 hours. Okay. And this could end up being a $200, $300, $400 million next four weeks. Well, with this trial, they've undone all of the reexamination of Trump of the last, let's say, year.

People have been watching what's going on and figuring out what's going on and watching how he's behaved. I believe all of that was undone with this because his numbers have been struggling. You know, he should be, anybody should be killing Biden. Okay? You guys got one day a week. You got Wednesdays. No, no. But I'm saying just the idea of him should be enough. But all of that review that had kind of mitigated his strength in this country has been erased by this. I'm not surprised he's raising the money. I don't... You can get ready to boo in three, two... I don't believe they timed it out to make people think

he's not going to show up at the convention. You don't think they timed it out to throw him off? I don't. I mean, this is a very typical calendar. Okay. It's a position to take. They could have done it... Well, that's true. Nothing about the case done it. That's true. Nothing about the case is typical. That's true. I just try very hard to take things on their face

with these things. And very often the truth is more than enough. What's gonna be obvious is gonna be more than enough. If they sentence him, it's just such a bad policy move. Now I know that when I look at my phone, it will light up, though luckily, most people in the center and left haven't hooked onto Patrick yet, but they will.

They will, because if you wanna hear voices and selection, very few people deliver the way he does for Valuetainment. So they'll start, so the clips will come out, and then the left will attack me for suggesting that there was something, you know, that this was different because no one's above the law and he did it and he finally got what he deserves and blah, blah, blah. Because I've been getting beaten up for weeks during this trial.

Which by the way is okay. You're a smart guy and I'm not condescending to you. I like what you do and I like where you're coming from. It's kind of weird being a libertarian in our system. You know, you don't really have a home but it does kind of give you an out whenever you want because you don't have to be part of the other two. But you know, for me... Yeah, I get to just be right about everything. Yeah, you know, that's true. It's true. There's a convenience in never having to own any of the conversations.

But what I'm saying is... No, I mean, listen Chris, I own my track record. I do a show three days a week. I've been doing it. I don't know how many of you guys listen to it. But I've been doing it through... I have a track record just alongside yours. I'll put my track record up there and I'm very proud of it.

So I do have to own something. I was out there in real time being against the lockdowns, being against the stupid mandates, like outdoor mask mandate. It was so, listen, this stuff wasn't that, I mean, I don't mean to bring the conversation back to COVID. Why do you think they did it? But I, well, listen, hold on, but listen, forget even why they did it, okay?

Because I have my theories on that, but I don't know for sure. I don't know what's in people's hearts and minds. What I do know is that saying something like, I'm vaccinated and I need to force you to get vaccinated so that you protect me was so profoundly stupid that the second someone said that I was like, now that doesn't make any sense. And I'll tell you what, you can look this up for yourselves. There have been multiple

studies that show, first of all, just some basic things, right? Hospitalizations, nine out of 10, once the vaccine came out were unvaccinated people. That should matter, okay? Now, as you went through the iterations of the variants, should they have changed? Yes, yes, yes, but it'll never happen. You'll never hear that where things stand today. Because if there's no review, it'll never happen. But the idea of why you were supposed to take the vaccine was

very basic and the I and what did we see as a result. Now they'll throw numbers about how many people died because they didn't take the vaccine. I don't know about those numbers. Mortality is a very tricky thing to pin down. You died with it, you died from it, I don't know. But here's something that really bothers me. Matching counties, right? Because you know, kind of matching where people are, you're gonna have some kind of general sense of lifestyle. Okay?

Republicans unvaccinated died in disproportionate percentages. Listen, I don't want it to be true. The data is what the data is. And there are five different studies on this. Now, die again is a tricky thing because, well, is there overindexed for obesity? But they were taking them from the same areas. And it bothers me that it became a politicized decision.

And you can't say it didn't. That's what it was. All of these things became politicized. That's what pissed me off. I didn't go after Byron Donald because I wouldn't go after him anyway. I like having him on the show. I think he's a future of the GOP.

I think he's a good guy. I think you guys should take a serious look at him in your state. But you just switched because it was a different president. That's all that switched, the whole dynamic switched. That was my beef about that. With the later variants, we really had mistakes made in this, in my opinion. Now a lot of them will disagree with me and say that's not true,

you don't know what you're talking about, you're not a scientist. It still did what it was supposed to do and the boosters made up the leg. I don't know that that's true and they are doing very little to find out what the vaccine is doing in people and they're doing very little to find out what the virus is doing in people. And all the research that's coming out is saying those are our two biggest issues health-wise that we're dealing with. Chris I really hope you read the book that I just gave you man because it destroys all of these arguments. Look, the truth is that, and the evidence is overwhelming at this point, okay, like

you can go through this, it is just pure science, pure facts and charts. All of the lockdowns, you can't point to any, you can't find any trend if you look at the lockdown states versus the not lockdown states, or the lockdown countries versus the not lockdown countries, the ones, the counties where there was mass compliance versus the not lockdown states or the lockdown countries versus the not lockdown countries, the counties where there was mass compliance versus the counties where there wasn't mass compliance, the counties where there was more vaccine passports versus where there, you can't find any trend in any of it. The truth is that the virus did what the virus

was gonna do and none of these government policies did a thing to slow it down. But what they did- You don't think that hospitalizations went down because of the vaccine? It's- listen, read the book, man. I'm telling you. No, it's not a conclusive point. But what these policies did do is they destroyed the lives of tens of millions of people.

And by the way, Chris, this is why there's so much anger about this stuff, okay? This is why people are so furious and why people do kind of want to see somebody- because listen, the thing, and listen, I give you a lot of credit for doing this. Like I really am grateful to you for being on this stage with me here. The thing about it is, is like I think from my perspective, and I really do think I speak for millions of Americans when I say this, this is all we get. You. Like, there's no one else. Fauci's never going to do a debate like this.

None of the other like top establishment scientists will go, well hold on, let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. Yeah, cause they're cowards and they're wrong. None of them will go on Joe Rogan's podcast, right? What if he ended up, you remember the pot that was offered for that doctor who was like, everyone shipped in?

I think you shipped in for it. Yeah, like everyone, he raised millions of dollars. They won't debate RFK, they won you shipped in for it. Yeah, like everyone's, it raised millions of dollars. They won't debate RFK, they won't do any of this. And so it's like, look, I think a lot of people are angry about this stuff. Now, back to the point you were making here, okay? When we're talking about specifically the vaccine passports, okay?

This was during the Omicron wave. We're talking late 2021. There has been, at this point, you had almost two years of COVID hysteria, with the establishment being wrong about every single prescription along the way. And meanwhile, there's also mass censorship of any of the experts who come out against it.

I mean, the Great Barrington Declaration, that happened in the fall of 2020. This is a full year later after that, after all these experts came out and said, the government got this entire response wrong and ruined tens of millions of people's lives. But listen, if you look at, there's no question about- But they were seen as a minority group.

Yeah, but they were a group of experts. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, the ones who tell the truth. I'm just saying, that was shot down. If you look at what Omicron did, okay, this was after mass vaccination, okay, it tore through the unvaccinated areas and the vaccinated just alike.

There's not, you cannot look at one chart and say, oh, look, this area had high vaccination rates and therefore Omicron didn't really come in here and have no tore through it just the same as it did everybody else. It tore through it in terms of cases, not severe cases. It's not true. Look, I am, I agree. I agree.

Well, look, again, we can look at the data. You can put the data up. I mean, this is what I do. But what I'm saying is this. I mean, this is what I do too what I'm saying is this. This is what I do too with a much better track record Chris. I'm just being honest. This is the truth. I don't know that you have a better track record. I really don't know that you have a better track record. Okay so let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Do you think

lockdowns worked? Did they cause more harm than good? By the way there was no good that was caused but do you think they caused more harm than good? The correct answer is you can look again I wish these things were that simple. I can argue yes I can argue no. The government will say yes. No but I'm asking you. The people who will in charge of lockdown will say yes. Do you think that lockdowns mitigated the virus and were not offset by the catastrophic harm that lockdowns caused? That virus and were not offset by the catastrophic harm that lockdowns caused? That's a different question and that's hard to know. It costs so much pain in this country that it's hard to say how do

you value what they believe was saved in terms of lives? Go look at the John Hopkins study on lockdowns. They looked at all the lockdown areas versus the areas that didn't lock, they found no difference in mitigating the virus. It was just the disaster. And I was against the lockdowns from the very beginning. I was against the ridiculous outdoor mask wearing. I was against all of the mandates,

all of people being deemed non-essential, all of this stuff. I get it. But it wasn't just America. You make it sound like, you know. I'm against it everywhere. But what I'm saying is, but it matters that it happened everywhere. It matters, and it happened in other places longer.

And in- Sweden. Yeah, look at Sweden, how'd it work out for them? Wait, are you serious? Yeah. Sweden, by the way, here's how it worked out for Sweden. Lowest excess mortality rate in all of Europe. That's how it worked out for Sweden.

They had rates of illness in there. And then they didn't build up the herd immunity they thought they were going to by going that way. of Europe. That's how it worked out for Sweden. They had rates of illness in there and then they didn't build up the herd immunity they thought they were going to by going that way. And the UK wound up watching them in a reversing course. And why is it that Sweden has the lowest excess mortality rate in all of Europe? Because of all of the deaths that were caused by the lockdowns. That's why. They were the ones who didn't do that to themselves. And man, I mean, you look at, you know, Pat brought up the number of small businesses that were ruined during the lockdowns.

That's the least of it. And that's huge. I'm not trying to downplay that at all. But you're talking about suicides, families breaking up, children falling behind, just things that people will never, and not just that, but also just, look, here's the thing, right? And this is what I think the media class never really grapples with.

What was, if I were to ask you, what was the cost of the war in Iraq? Okay? What was the cost of it? Now you might try to find what you go, okay, we spent two trillion dollars on the war in Iraq. Okay, there were a million Iraqis died as a result of that war. Over 10 million were displaced. You could look at the thousands of America's bravest young

boys who killed themselves, tens of thousands, if you want to count the ones who blew their brains out in the aftermath of it. But then you know what the cost of it was? Everything that we're living through today in our country. Donald Trump being president, the lack of trust in the corporate media, the culture war, everyone being pitied.

These things have costs for your society down the road that are impossible to measure. And the costs of the lockdowns, it's going to be another 15, 20 years before we look back and really recognize it. By the way, one of the costs of the lockdowns was the summer of love. The riots that caused billions of dollars in property damage across the, you remember the fiery but peaceful riots of 2020? Yeah, I was in them.

Yeah, they were, that was a cost of it. I mean, those riots didn't just come out, it wasn't just a coincidence that they came on the heels of three months of lockdowns. Anyway, I'm just saying that like, I'm just telling you, the people that I talked to who made these decisions stand by them and say, I believe it.

But look, but here's the thing. And again, if you say, I'm sure Dick Cheney stands by the war in Iraq too. The whole party does, by the way, we went into the wrong country and you talk about censorship, which is definitely something that is real and is getting more difficult to see. When we started reporting that yellow cake wasn't real and Wilson came out and all

that stuff happened, Bush came out and said, you're hurting operational security on the ground by seeding this stuff. The American people stopped watching the news and that's what changed the reporting cycle. So I know what it's like to have people come after you and be censored. I like podcasts. I have a podcast. I believe in this space. I think it's the future of media.

I think digital media is the future. But the idea that we're in the same space and deal with the same scrutiny and all those things, they're not, they're different worlds. And I talk to the people that you are talking about. So I have an understanding of what's going on. I'm telling you, they stand by their decisions. Yeah, but I'm not arguing that these people

don't stand by their decisions. I'm just saying they're wrong. Right, but I'm saying it's easy to say they're wrong, but these people, where this is all they do, say if we hadn't done those things, there would have been more death. If we hadn't done those things, it would have been even worse.

So I'm saying let's have a review of it. Instead of a podcast versus the head of the CDC, you should have a panel. Yeah, well look, the problem with that is that just like the 9-11 investigation, it ends up being a total sham. And none of the interesting... Whoa, whoa, whoa. That commission was not a sham. That was a good report.

They had good recommendations. What happened to Bill? Remember, remember, yeah, right. I mean, as if we actually got to the bottom of it there. There's seven pages on it in there. Yeah. OK. About the conspiracy theories about Building 7

and what they believe the reality is. It's right in there. Yeah. OK. And then they had the 28 redacted pages that stayed redacted for years and years after that, which basically only came out when everyone didn't care enough to find out that there was high Saudi involvement

in 9-11 and we continued to prop up the House of Saud since then. And by the way, fought on the same side as Al Qaeda in Libya, Syria, and Yemen. But anyway, regardless of that, look, I understand that you're for this theoretical investigation into COVID. But here in the real world, the investigation has been done. I mean, the problem with you saying, look, when I talk to these experts, they really believe it. It's like, yeah, except for the head of the CDC

who didn't believe it. And what happened to him? Who? He was banished, never to come back again, right? Robert, all of these people. Robert Redfield, I just talked to about all of this. On your show now. He does not agree with about 100% of what you're saying.

About lockdowns, about masks, about the vaccine, about ivermectin, about long COVID, about all of these things. He does not agree with you. Well, let him come sit next to me and I'll tear him to shreds. I mean. What is he going to say, that ivermectin is horse dewormer?

Is that the argument he's going to go with? It doesn't work in the research for treating COVID. OK, but that's not really even what- But be very careful. Don't give people suggestions like that. That's what he'll say. OK. I mean, I wasn't really giving people suggestions on it.

I'm just saying it's people medicine. You know, but what I'm saying is, when you weaponize something like they don't want you to like this, this is bad, it obviously encourages it, because Ivermectin wound up having a rush on it. And there's no other explanation for it than that. What I'm saying, and it's not just a theoretical review, it would be a review.

And you can have your feelings about what building mysteriously fell, which is point of some conspiracy. I'm saying it was the best chance to get to a better place. And my question about this is you say there are millions of people. Why do you think that the right fringe of the GOP never discusses these issues? The most aggressive out there, what they will talk about, Pizzagate, whatever it is, what they will talk about, pizza gate, whatever it is, they won't talk about this. About what specifically?

This conversation. Well, I think, I mean, if I'm being honest, I think the reason why there's not a lot of political will from the Republicans to really talk about this is because, but even then, because they're, look, there's partisan issues here. The Republicans totally failed the country, too, on this issue. And DeSantis here in Florida, I think maybe if you guys are

in Florida, you might have the idea that that was the typical Republican gubernatorial response, but it wasn't. He was the outlier for walking back lockdowns and saying he'll never do mandates again. It was Noam, DeSantis, and Abbott then after DeSantis walked them back. But the rest of the country full of Republican governors were basically as bad as the Democrats. Listen, the reason they won't talk about it, okay, is because, you know, you say millions

and millions. The numbers aren't even close. The reason this doesn't show up in an issue preference thing, like what are you going to vote on? This is nowhere in the top dozen. Okay? So that's one reason that they won't talk about it, is why would I talk about what people say they're not going to vote on? Okay? The second reason is they don't agree with you. Okay?

Even the guy who's running the panel in the House right now, who's a doctor and a Republican and a Trump supporter, okay? He does not agree with your assessment. Well, I'm not a Trump supporter or a Republican, so that makes sense. But what I'm saying is, putting aside that maybe you should be a little open, that maybe some of these people know things that you don't, and you would want to see that tested on a panel of their peers. Okay, so let me say-

I don't know why we wouldn't all want that. You know, Chris, listen, it's totally reasonable thing for you to look at me and say, listen, there are doctors who are saying this, why don't you be open so they might know some things that you don't. Okay, fair enough. But, you know, I gotta say, again, for years, you were the number one show on CNN and you never had this energy. You were certain.

You were certain that the unvaccinated were the scourge of America. You were certain, as you told Congressman Donalds, that he was a dummy for not getting vaccinated, even though he had already had COVID. You did not, when you hosted your show on CNN, have the attitude that, hey, everybody should stop acting like they have so much certainty. We should all listen to the other side. So it's kind of rich hearing it come from you now.

Because you're not giving me the benefit of the change. In the beginning, the first two variants of this virus was a very different proposition than later. Your apology, Christians. I definitely wish, apologize, submit myself, prostrate myself before you for your redemption, that I wish that I had the foresight to be caught up in that mix as we saw that it was changing and not push harder on them not responding to the change. I think it would have really helped and I'm not saying I would have had that much influence but I'm saying it would have definitely mattered to the cohesiveness of this country. If after Omnicron let's say okay so you're

summer of 21 going going into 22, mandates are in place, people are starting to buck back in different areas and you have them spiking things and they're revising about super spreading and all this other stuff. If at that time there had been a revision of removing the mandates, realizing that the boosters are a maybe, or a maybe, and there would have been

a relaxation of it. Now, I'm sure that I'm gonna get beat up for this and they're gonna say, wow, you're crazy. If we had done that then, the numbers, all right, maybe. I'm just saying that in terms of how people felt, and politics is a big part of that, I think, to the little man that you have on your bucket there, when they made Tony Fauci and Burks,

the spokespeople for the US government, Tony, I'm sure, will second this. I said to him, this is a mistake. You guys elect people, to Dave's point, I don't share the mystery three-level agencies, deep state stuff. But you elect people. CIA has no power. It's not that they don't have power. I don't believe it to the depth that you do.

What I'm saying is though, the president of the United States should have been talking to you every day, and he should have been owning the changes and messaging. Trump and Biden, both of them leaned on Fauci. Scientists do not exist in a political space. You don't think Fauci does? I'll tell you why.

Look, Tony Fauci's problem with gain of function is so typical science versus politics. When you say as a scientist, so they said no more gain of function. So this commission got together and changed the definition of gain of function. So then we did that research. So I wasn't doing gain of function research under that old definition that you're talking about. To a scientist, yeah, okay. To a politician, you're a dead man if you say that.

And that's why he's having so much trouble with us. I mean, just listen, anyone just being honest would have a problem with that. I mean, what they did in the Wuhan lab was clearly gain of function by any reasonable definition of it. Well, not by their definition. Right, right. They made a snaky definition and changed it so that he could get away with lying about it under oath before Congress.

By the way, you remember when Rand Paul asked him straight up whether he's getting royalties from the big pharmaceutical companies or not and he refused to disclose the information? Come on, Chris. This guy is as corrupt as it gets, man. And the fact that you guys all just gave him fluffy interviews through the whole thing, man, was really a disgrace. He puts out an income statement every year.

Comer and these guys have been very aggressive in going after him. They haven't made a single recommendation to the DOJ to follow up on anything yet. They're pulling him back on the Senate. They want to get into his emails. They get into all these things. Why?

Because they have this other guy who's called a senior advisor to Fauci. He wasn't a senior advisor. It's a title. I don't know why that guy was saying what they were saying. They should definitely haul him in. They should figure out why he was saying what he was saying in those emails.

They haven't tied it to Fauci. And if they do, then they do. But it is a little curious that as enthusiastic as we are these days about prosecuting our political opponents, they haven't even made a reference to the DOJ about him. Can I ask you a question? I'm telling you it's noise.

A very different question. Why do you think 2020, Trump only got 9% of the African American vote and Democrats have owned the black vote for decades since 64, why do you think it's 22% now to Trump? I think that there's, again, there's several reasons. Now, do I know whether or not that's going to translate to the polls on election day?

I do not know. Do I think he's gonna get 22% of the black vote? I wanna be careful, no, I don't. But minority vote is a different thing. The Latino community is the most robust growth and voting block in this country. Asian Americans writ large, right, not just Chinese, Japanese, but that entire region,

Southeast Asia included, East Asia included, is also very robust. He gets a lot of those voters also. Why? Disgust is in very robust. He gets a lot of those voters also. Why? Disgust is in high demand. People are disgusted. I sit in many rooms like this, with people who agree with you guys about nothing,

but they match your anger. They are very, very angry. I sit and meet and talk to minority people who feel betrayed. They're driven nuts by the migrant situation because so much of the emergency services that get sucked up by that population are in their communities. The change in policing that was supposed to be for them on the left flank has made them more endangered in their communities

The economic recovery while everybody likes to brag about how good it's been for minorities. They don't feel it now It's not fair to put them all in one block. They're plenty of rich minorities. Yes, but Socio-economically you have a disproportionate distribution right as you go down the socio-economic ladder Relatively you start having more and more minorities, right? As you go down the socioeconomic ladder, relatively, you start having more and more minorities, right? You have more poor white people in the country than poor black people, but by percentage, it's different. That's why they're reconsidering it, that we are in a time of change

and Joe Biden is not getting it done for the Democrats. He is not making their message. He does not seem like, you know, the joke will be, we may not even make it. But he is failing to connect with their base and they will move. People will move. It can take time,

but we are at a low point in our party politics. We have never had two unanimously bad choices for president before in our party politics. We have never had two unanimously bad choices for president before in our history. 2016 was pretty rough. Can you play this clip, Rob? And the reason why I'm asking this question is, for all her negatives, was no one thought she was gonna drop dead.

I mean, I know they played with all that. Yes, no, I get your point. No, listen, it's a fair point. Do you think black people trust Fauci? It depends on who they listen to. Can you play this clip, Rob? It depends on what you take in. I wanna show you two clips.

Play this clip, go ahead. How you guys doing with vaccine? How are you, brother? I'm learning how to get it. I'm learning for them to be able to. Oh, you should get it first. I'll tell you, that way you won't give it to them. Oh, I thought I would give it to them if I get it.

No, no, not at all. In fact, we gotta get you vaccinated so that if you were to get infected, you could pass it on to them. So you're actually protecting your family by getting it vaccinated. Well, I heard that it doesn't cure it and it doesn't-

That's true. Stop you from getting it. No. On the very, very, very rare chance that you do get it, even if you're vaccinated, it's a very... You don't even feel sick. It's like you don't even know you got infected. It's very, very good at protecting you.

Just the anacostia, so get up there. Okay. All right, see you later. Have a good day. The people in America are not settled with the information that's been given to us right now. So I'm not gonna be lining up taking a shot on a vaccination for something

that wasn't clear in the first place. And then you all create a shot in miraculous time. It takes years to create vaccination. Well, it used to take years. Well, it used to take years. OK, it used to. You know how many years we're invested in this approach? About 20 years of science to get us to be able to do it quickly. One year is not enough.

And nine months is definitely not enough for nobody to be taking no vaccination that you all came up with. The only reason I'm talking to you right now, as close as we are, is that I've been vaccinated. But if a lot of thousands of people like you don't get vaccinated, you're going to let this virus continue to percolate in this country and in this world. Something like the common flu then, right? It's much more serious than the flu.

Well, the flu kills a lot of people. You know how many people died of the flu the last year? I mean, not this year, virtually none, but the previous year, about 20 to 30,000. How many people have died from COVID-19 in the United States? 600,000 Americans. Well, the number that you all given that died,

that's once again, that's you all's number. You gonna pay us. Yeah, definitely. Because when you start talking about paying people to get vaccinated, when you start talking about incentivizing things to get people vaccinated, there's something else going on with that. Something else going on. It is something going on. Yeah, there's something else going on. You're right. But I'm glad millions of people like me and most everybody here didn't get an incentive. You know what their incentive was? Protecting

their health and protecting the city. But I won't keep doing it anymore. It's OK, because my incentive to your campaign is about fear. It's about inciting fear in people. You all attack people with fear. That's what this campaign is. That's the best part is it keeps talking shit while they walk away. It's because we knew there was a campaign.

By the way. How beautiful is that, man? For sure. Dude, I got to, after this, I got to go down to Baltimore. I got to, with that video, and try to find that house so I can just salute that guy. Isn't it just amazing that what's crazy about it is here you have Fauci and these local Baltimore politicians going

through the hood in Baltimore knocking on doors. And they're wrecking him. And it's not even like, listen, now with hindsight 2020, because at the time they were putting out the video and mocking those, oh, these dumb black people in the inner city don't know what's going on. They were right. And Fauci was wrong.

And Fauci was totally, it should be, I mean, you should lose your license. You should be shunned from society. For him to make the claim, to look at somebody when none of the trials and none of the data at the time supported this idea that if you get it, you might get sick, but you won't even feel it. And you can't give it to anybody else.

And I heard, by the way, Jay Bhattacharya, who wrote the forward to this book, he said at the time he goes, Whoa, Fauci is way overplaying his hand. Like none of the data justifies him making this claim. It's not none of the data. Here's where they were wrong. OK, they weren't wrong. Here's where it didn't be. Here's where it didn't become what they wanted it to be. Look, no, they were wrong.

Here's I know many where they're wrong. I know many people who got the vaccine and got COVID and were very sick and gave it to other people. With the later variants. With the later variants. So do I. I know people too. You'd be surprised. By the way, these are, just to be clear here, just in case, because all this time gets muddled together, OK?

These are the later variants. The vaccine was not available for the first variant, OK? The vaccine was not available for the first variant. Okay? The vaccine was not available. These are all the later variants are what we're talking about here. No, that's not true. You had it for the second and third

and then it really dropped off. The first look, again, the idea that you guys enjoy the owning, I think is part of the problem. Okay? I know there's something satisfying about it, and it works great for media and for clips and to get you enragement.

But it doesn't move the ball. Chris, man, you're telling me we could play that video of the way you and all your colleagues demonize the unvaccinated? Were they not trying to own us? It's only I'm the one who wants to own. Because not getting vaccinated. Not getting vaccinated matters.

Yes, it's in response to all of you guys trying to own us for years from all of the halls of power. That now that you were wrong about everything, we're going to point that out. Hold on, two things. One, vengeance, good. I hope it feels good. If you think it's going to stop it from happening again, you're you're wrong you're wrong I don't think it's vengeance either I'm saying if that's the instinct you tried to own us we're gonna try to own you that's not true but that's why I'm here okay and that's why I have a show that has guys like you on more than any other show on television okay more than any other show on television. Okay?

They changed the definition of vaccine to feed that vaccine. It is true. They did change the definition of vaccine. They changed the definition of vaccine not for this vaccine. They changed it when they started doing RNA. This is technically not a vaccine

because it doesn't make you immune. Now, here's what they got wrong. They do the testing in record time, right, which nobody was upset with when Trump was president, but it gets done. Lots of people were. They have 90, they were quiet. 95% they say efficacy.

What did that mean? 95% was severe illness, symptoms that you could recognize that may hospitalize you. That's what they didn't have. Not sick. They then took that and made it into a cell of, so if you take the vaccine, does that mean like polio, you don't get it?

No. That means that even if you get it, you won't be that sick and, and then here's the mistake they made. Because you don't have that much virus in you and you're not that sick and then here's the mistake they made. Because you don't have that much virus in you and you're not that sick, you probably won't pass it on to somebody else. And that was a big part of the cell

that became less and less true over time. And the messaging didn't stand. And you were called in a therapeutic. That's right. Yeah, at best. As somebody who was, and I agree with what you're saying. We were in different positions.

You were the number one show at CNN. I was doing a podcast on the Internet. But as somebody who was not in that bubble that you were in and was talking to experts who were outside of the establishment, the idea that there were going to be variants of this of this virus and that the vaccine would do a worse and worse job with all of the variants was the easiest thing to predict. That's not true. And experts did predict this.

That's not, no, I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that the people they were using to do the measurements did not see it. And then when it happened. No, the people you were talking to didn't. The people I was talking to did see this coming. So you were talking to people at the NIH and the CDC who was doing the tests?

No, that's the whole point. I wasn't. So I was talking to, I was coming. So you were talking to people at the NIH and the CDC who was doing the best? No, that's the whole point. I wasn't. So I was talking to, I was talking. But there were plenty of experts outside. See, this is the problem here, Chris, is that you, which is the exact opposite of what the journalist's job is to do, is that you hold up here the government officials

as if they are the real experts and nobody else is an expert. I just gave you a book that was written by Tom Woods as a degree from Harvard and Columbia and the forward by Dr. Bhatia. He is a professor at Stanford. These are legit experts, okay? They didn't work for the CDC or the NIH, but the job of a journalist is to always start

from a place of skepticism toward those in government. There's no question about it. And when we went down and it started to change, I wish that I had been more aggressive about that. And I wasn't because I didn't see it. Now, I've had a lot of time to read into this, especially because of my own sickness. And I see things that most people still don't know

and haven't been reported on. I'm one of the only people who reports on long COVID. I'm sorry I was an asshole. I'm sorry you were an asshole. Not bad. Not bad. My point is this. My point is this. I don't need to have these conversations.

They don't particularly rate well. I get a lot of criticism from people in power. I get, I get. Good, that should be a badge of honor, man. And you're a newsman, right? No. It depends on the, look, you don't know me, okay? The idea that I am conflict-averse is silly

the idea that I don't test power is silly what I'm talking about here is you are pretending because you can you have the luxury of not worrying about what happens when you say what you say I work for a place that will get a phone call from someone that they care about okay okay? It will matter to them. And you can say, well, they work for this three-letter agency that are all, you know, bad people. If I had, let me tell you something, this is what's really infuriating about you saying that, right? I understand that the pressure is at CNN where powerful people could make a phone call and then you could be in a lot of trouble.

No, it's an accountability proposition. Let's talk accountability. If I had your track record on COVID, I'd be out of business. Period. No one would listen to me anymore. I would have no way of making money. I would be ruined. I would be absolutely ruined. If you didn't sell people that there were easy ways to get past COVID

and that the vaccine was a joke and everything that happened was a joke, I don't think you'd be in business. I think if you weren't doing these things, I don't think you'd have the same platform because it sells very well in digital media. Now, I mean, it's just first off, I never said the things that you just said. The thing is that, yes, you're right. Me being against lockdowns, against mandates, against the corruption of big pharma, again, yes, that did help. No, and the vaccine, you don help me. No, and the vaccine.

You don't think people should have taken the vaccine. I already said that I do think there was a group of people early on who should have taken the vaccine. But what is that group? I said already, I'll say it. I think old sick people who had never had COVID. And the people who were with them? No, I don't agree with that.

Really? I think there was a strong argument for that demographic. By the way, old sick people who had had COVID, probably unnecessary to take the vaccine. Your likelihood of dying after you had already beat COVID once plummeted way, way down. Natural immunity is stronger than the vaccine, as it is with almost all vaccines.

It's interesting. All of the studies show that hybrid immunity, which is having gotten it from the virus and also having the vaccine, is the best level of immunity. That's what the research says. It's not true. That's what the research says. Yeah, but to say what you're saying, my dad, when we were talking as a family on who should

take the vaccine, should not, what are you going to be doing, here's what we're doing, I'm not taking it, wife's not taking it, kids are not taking it, my dad, who's a conservative, took it. Wife's not taking it. Kids are not taking it. My dad, who's a conservative, took it. And he was 78 or 79 at the time when he took it. I think some like that, right? Four years ago he took it. And he got the boosters. Two years later, he got COVID and pneumonia at the same time at 80 years old.

Literally. Do you remember that? When he got COVID and pneumonia. How bad was it? Yeah, he was bad. But guess what? He's here with us at 82. He's strong. So there's a part of it, I agree, the fact that, you know, for a certain section of a

community, I think it was- Well, listen, and that's a good point, Pat, but here's the thing. In the real world, what was going on, during, again, during all those clips that you were showing of them demonizing the unvaccinated, this was, again, to put this in the time frame here, right? This was after the rollout. Okay. So after the vaccine was made accessible for everybody in America, and they really did make it very accessible for everybody.

And then not enough people were getting the vaccine. And then they started like pushing like employer mandates and things like that. Ultimately, Joe Biden lost at the Supreme court with his OSHA mandate, which would have made every midsize and big company force their employees to get vaccinated. Okay, but at about this point, when there's still some people being hesitant, that's when you see everybody demonizing the unvaccinated. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. When they started rolling these things out, okay, so I know someone, a family friend, right? This is a kid who was at a grad school, 25, something like that, at the time. He had, they forced him to get double vaccinated

and then the next year they forced him to get boosted a month after he had had COVID. This is a healthy 25 year old. And so, you know, you could talk about, if you wanna split hairs about the people living with a vulnerable person, no, I think if that vulnerable person got vaccinated, that's enough. But there's just no scientific argument in the world why a 25 year old kid who has already double jabbed,

who just had COVID a month later should get a booster. And yet on CNN and all the other major networks, they made it seem like that wasn't even a thing. It was just, you're a bonehead, you're an idiot, you're what's ruining this country. And the craziest thing about it was that they were blaming the unvaccinated for why you don't have freedom anymore.

Like they're the reason why all the rest of you guys can't enjoy your freedom, when the reality is the reason the rest of us could enjoy our freedom was because of the corrupt government who was doing this to us for no reason. And man it just wouldn't. But you know that's not true. No I know it's 100% true. They weren't doing it.

No that's how you feel. No that's what I believe is true. What you know is that they did have a basis for why they were doing it. They believe that the numbers weren't coming down fast enough. They believe that if they didn't get a certain vaccination rate that it would stay that way and continue to kill people that they didn't want to die. So they pushed it. Now you can say I disagree with their findings. That's even more reason to have it all reviewed. I'm sorry Dave. I don't mean it to be condescending or insulting. I don't mean it that way. But you can't really

have the confidence that you know all the answers and there's no reason for anybody to tell you any different. I don't I don't agree with that. I mean, listen, there are better answers out there that we aren't getting. And COVID is still making people sick. There's a variant flying through Asia right now that's more contagious than they thought it was going to be. It's going to wind up coming back here. I'm not saying there's gonna be anything

like what we lived through already. There's no will for it. And no politician's gonna put themselves into a position where no one's gonna comply. But people are gonna get sick in your life, okay? And not from COVID. I'm saying from what happened to them a year ago, two years ago, maybe it's the vaccine.

Maybe, well not maybe, definitely from the virus, maybe from the vaccine. They're gonna get sick. We are not working on therapeutics at the rate. They are not putting the money into research. They are not, there are databases, but they are not on it the way you would think they'd be on it.

And a big reason is because of this divide. They don't want to engage with a population that they believe is just antagonistic. So much so that even though, and look, all due respect, I don't care who you vote for, the anti-vax Trump supporter correlation is very strong, okay? But his people don't have this conversation with you. You don't have anyone, even Marjorie Taylor Greene is not saying, and yeah, let's not forget about that vaccine. Let's start talking about that now.

None of them. And that's what matters to me. You wanna blame me? Fine, good, good for you. What I'm saying is, what matters to me is that the things that need to be done are not going to happen. If Trump wins, I don't think it happens. If Biden wins, I don't think it happens.

And that's why I think there has to be public will for this. So you can be angry. I think it's a great motivator in this situation. There are plenty of things that I think you should be angry about. But what are you gonna do about it? The only way you can get any of this rectified is by having a body that has to be respected, put out the findings, some of them will match Dave's, some of them won't, and that next time hear your things you can't do this, forget the WHO, we got gotta get our own pandemic board back

and hear the kind of people who should be on it, whatever they come up with. That's the only way. Otherwise, you know the old quote, right? What happens to people who don't learn the lessons? They'll repeat them. Yeah, well I sure do agree with that. I think that there's, look, the silver lining in all of this

is that trust in corporate media is at an all time low. Trust in every other institution in this country has evaporated. And the truth is that you'll never be able to do this to us again, because we simply won't let you. People won't believe it. Next time.

What is trust high in in America today? simply won't let you. People won't believe it. Next slide. And that's- What is trust high in in America today? What is trust high in? I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. He's saying if trust is not high in media and the government, what is it high in? Well, I think that there's tremendous trust in the alternative internet media landscape.

Absolutely. Yeah, there is. Listen, I'm not saying there shouldn't be. I'm saying- Look, Chris, you could just look at the market on this. Look at the numbers Joe Rogan gets versus the numbers CNN gets. Way more people have flocked over to him

than are watching CNN because they trust him. Look, I'm happy for Joe Rogan's success. Good for him. The highest rated thing in media, and let's just put it all in one basket, you've got the nightly news that was supposed to be dead 20 years ago, still gets nine million people a night. So the idea that nobody cares about that,

obviously they do, they're watching. What I'm saying is this. Versus 40 million, used to be a lot more than nine million. Yeah, but you measure that over a month. No, I get that. Not one day. No, no, Cronkite used to be, you know. Oh, there's no question, it's stratifying, it's changing,

and I think that's good. I think it's good. I'm saying that there's no trust in anything. No, I don't think you're right. I mean, I think that, I mean, I don't know that I have like polling data on this, but I'd imagine if I could poll the, the value attainment audience, there'd be tremendously high trust in Patrick Bette David. I'd imagine if you could poll my audience, they would be tremendously high trust in me. That's not true. And look, I understand kind of not wanting to deal with that because it's uncomfortable when you were one of the main guys

in an industry as trust totally cratered in that industry. But you can look at this on a poll. Trust in media is at an all-time low. Trust has been low in media since the Vietnam War. That was the turning point. You can look at these Gallup polls. It was way higher. No, no, it's got lower and lower.

No, no, right. Pull up the other one. Not even this one. There's another one. There's another one. No, no, it's not. It's at 23, 27 right now. I think it's lower than that.

I think it's ever been like that. It may be the lowest, but I think it's lower than that. But the point is, it's low in everything. It's low in everything. And there's a difference between a fan base and brand respect. No, no, I don't think that's how life works. I don't think that's how life works. I think here's how life works.

You got your mom and dad when your parents go through a divorce. At the time, one paints a picture of the other person that you buy into, and the other person doesn't say shit. For 15 years, you think this is a bad person. 15 years later, you realize this person doesn't say shit. For 15 years you think this is a bad person. 15 years later you realize this person was full of shit. This person's trust is lost, this person's trust is gained. Trust moves. Trust doesn't stay and just disappear 100% against everybody.

Find a graph that shows what has increased in spiking trust. By the way, let me show you this. I want to show you this. I asked you guys a question about the black vote, whites come from 9 to 22, and I showed you the one clip. I want to show you this. I asked you guys a question about the black vote, whites come from 9222, and I showed you the one clip. I want to show you the second clip. I want you to see this here. This is Bronx.

It's not all black. You've got Dominican, Puerto Rican, a lot of that. This is last week, Robert. You can play this clip. I want you to watch this clip. I want you to watch this clip real quick, and then we can come back to the last thing, because we have 20 minutes left. I do want to hit immigration, because I want to show you guys one clip to get your feedback on.

Rob, if you got the clip I texted you, just play the clip. I texted it to you a few minutes ago. I'll put a thumbs up on it. I want you to play. It's a tweet. Chicago won Ray. Chicago won Ray. Go ahead and play this clip.

Watch this, folks. If President Trump came here to the South Bronx, would you attend the rally? Of course. I would want to meet Trump. I want to shake his hand. He's the only president that I see that can ever make America great again. He's capable of doing that. I would love to go to a rally with Donald Trump come, because I'm a big Donald Trump supporter and I would support him 100%.

Oh yeah, definitely we're going to show him love. We're going to show him a lot of love of love and you know like they do in other states We definitely need to see Trump here. There's nothing but love for Donald Trump here in the South Bronx, the North Bronx, the East Bronx and the West Bronx So Tommy! We want Trump to come back I thought he was gonna say the boogie down Bronx Get out of here bro I would come to the rally and support Trump

Because the Bronx need a change and we need somebody that's really going to help this community I would definitely come to a Trump rally in the South Bronx. I like them. You do? Yes Yes I will come to a rally if President Trump was to come to the Bronx and also would bring other people to come to and support Would Joe Biden get a warm reception if he came to the Bronx? No, he wouldn't know and I'll make sure that No, he wouldn't have. And I'll make sure of that. And by the way, obviously we all know, according to Biden, none of these people were black. You know that, right?

I just want to make sure you know this. That's a good point. It's a delusion. There's a bunch of white people right there. There's a bunch of white people in Bronx, of course there is. Anyways, okay, we can transition to this next story with immigration. Here's some numbers that we've seen. You've seen it, I've seen it, we've transition to this next story with immigration. Here's some numbers that we've seen. You've seen it, I've seen it, we've all seen it.

2016, these are the amount of migrant encounters at the southwest border over the years from 2016 to 2020. I'm not giving any numbers. You don't know, both of you guys know this number. 2016, 415,000. 2017, 526. 2018, 683,000. 2019, 1.1 million.

2020 comes down to 646. Biden gets elected. 1.956 million. 2021, almost 2 million. Next year, 2022, 2.766 million. 2023, 3.201 million. 2024, year to date in the first five months, 2 million. 2023 3.201 million 2024 year to date in the first five months

2 million 1.981 Million people this could be the first four million and it's a record we broke last year Nobody ever thought this was gonna be taking place to be just to be clear here. These are the numbers of border encounters This is not the total number of people who have fled into the right these are the numbers of border encounters. This is not the total number of people who have fled into the country. These are encounters that they have. So I want to start off with you. The real numbers are worse. I want to start off with you.

What do you think is the motive for leaving the border open to allow all of these folks to come in here? He has the ability to stop it. He knows it. People who are involved in politics. They also know it He keeps saying he can why do you think they're allowing the border to be wide open? It's what his left flank wants It's what that's easy. It's what his left flank wants. It's what his left flank wants. Yeah, absolutely So I'm probably the one the party why do they want it? It's a mix of

Wanting to gate what Trump's policy was, right? Very common. One comes in to undo what the other one did, the number one reason. There are two reasons that the border flow has been so big under Biden. One is there was an implicit message to the hottest regions that come here seasonally that it would be easier under Biden than it was under Trump,

that he would be more welcoming. One. Two is when the Biden administration came in, they undid the executive orders that Trump had in place that motivated home country agreements, which was where, and you can like this or not, but it works. We, the United States would pay a home country

to process there. We'll pay, we'll set up the infrastructure, we'll build whatever you want. But don't have it happen here. Biden got rid of all of those. Now that number does not reflect something that has happened in the last few months, which is we have seen a dip. Why? Lots of reasons. But one of them is he put those agreements back in place. He made, not all of them, not enough. Remain in Mexico is the one that you hear most often. That's a little bit of a token. Only 75,000 people went there. And I know that's real. 75,000 less than you would have had otherwise. But that wasn't what really did it. It was the whole network of them.

Those are the two reasons they're bigger now. What I don't agree with is that the reason they're doing this is so that they have all these new voters that will feel grateful to them. No, I don't. Did you hear what Chuck Schumer said today? Let me play this clip, Rob. Play the clip of Chuck Schumer. At least he ain't lying in this clip.

Play this clip. Because he says what you like. No, no. That's why I said that. clip, Rob. Play the clip of Chuck Schumer. At least he ain't lying in this clip. Play this clip. Because he says what you like. No, no. That's why I said it. No, no. But watch what he says. Watch what he says. Because you're saying he doesn't, and obviously the motives, Chuck wouldn't lie, obviously.

Rob, if you're... You got it? Okay, go for it. Let's watch this. Now more than ever, we're short of workers. We have a population that is not reproducing it on its own with the same level that it used to. The only way we're going to have a great future in America is if we welcome and embrace immigrants, the dreamers and all of them, because our ultimate goal is to help the dreamers but get a path to citizenship for all 11 million or however many undocumented there are here.

I just love that my favorite part of that is that he's using the old talking points like no one's told him that we've updated this we don't say this anymore and even down to he used the old number like 11 million is what they used to say in like 15 years I know but I'm just saying 11 million was always the estimate but that was the estimate during like Obama's first term they used to say 11 million and then you add all these numbers and you're just like hey guys how is the number still the same they don't know the number well listen here's the thing right Pat and this was and I remember this well because I used to I used to watch a lot of cable news during Obama's years. And during the Obama second term,

I remember specifically, all over the place at CNN and MSNBC, they would just talk about this openly. And what they called it was the browning of America. Joy Reid and Rachel Maddow and Joe Biden and all types of big figures in the media and political class would brag about this. And they would say out loud that our plan here is that we're, listen, look at the demographics.

This was their term. Demographics is destiny. And the Latino vote overwhelmingly supports Democrats. And they're the fastest growing demographic in this country. And so you do the math. What does that mean? It means democratic majorities in perpetuity.

And they were very open about this, that, hey, they used to say it about Mitt Romney when he was running. They were like, this is the last dying gasp of the white majority in America. And soon you're going to be a minority. And you can just deal with whatever we want to do at that point. And then when Donald Trump came around and did something

that nobody else in 2016 was going to do, which is he made immigration the center of his campaign. That was the, he rode down that escalator and gave that first speech that this is what we're gonna do, we're gonna build a wall and deport all illegal immigrants and that was what his coalition was built around and it took off and was wildly successful. And to be fair, much more than I thought it was gonna be

at the time, at the time I didn't think that was gonna be, much more than I thought it was going to be at the time. At the time, I didn't think that was going to be a rallying point the way it was. You live in New York. First time we've ever had an issue tie for number one with the American people. The economy is back in number one now. Immigration was right there.

In some polls, it was number one. Most polls, economy number one. But immigration's always number two. And then a few had it at number one. So Donald Trump came down and talked about this. And then, and only then, was it that the people on MSNBC and CNN decided it was racist to bring up the browning of America.

And then a few people started calling it the Great Replacement, and some of those people were like some pretty hardcore right-wing guys. But then they were like, anybody who says this is a neo-Nazi, basically. But I'm like, I remember hearing Joy Reid say this just a few years before she decided you were a neo-Nazi. Literally, I hear Joy Reid going, only neo-Nazis say this.

And I'm like, bitch, I remember you saying this a few years ago. So look, here's the thing. So then when Donald Trump comes down the escalator and he makes immigration the center point of his campaign, this is what the entire establishment, the Democratic and Republican establishment, and most of the media class, villainized him for.

Look, he's a racist. He called all Mexicans rapists, even though that's not really what he said. But whatever, he called all Mexicans rapists. And he's this horrible racist guy. And they attacked him ruthlessly for this. Then he won the presidency. They attacked him ruthlessly for the kids in cages.

Even when Politico was using pictures of cages Obama built, they still attacked Donald Trump for him, right? And now the very interesting dynamic is that partly because, as you said, 2020 was this crazy kind of exception year. So in that year, immigration actually was way down because no one was allowed to leave their house. So how the hell are you going to immigrate anywhere? And so it wasn't a major issue of the 2020 campaign. However, in the years since Joe Biden came in, and I think part of this is what I think you were kind of alluding to in your answer, is that regardless even

of what the policy is, when you got the president who's on TV saying, build a wall, deport them all, and then you got another party who says, you're a horrible racist, and then that party gets in, it does kind of send a signal to the world, like, oh, the guys who are easy on immigration are in now. Now, on top of that, there's all types of UN-funded NGOs that are, like, sponsoring these huge waves of people coming in.

That's a whole other rabbit hole to go down. There are a lot of employers in America that sponsor them coming in. That's true, too. That's true, too. There's always been a big business appetite for cheap labor, obviously, because big business likes cheap labor. But the interesting thing that we're living through this dynamic now is that the crisis has gotten so bad, and also with some savvy political maneuvering

by some Republican governors where they've sent them into blue areas. And then as soon as the migrants get into blue sanctuary cities, they go, now it's a crisis. But now everybody essentially has recognized that this is an unsustainable crisis. And Donald Trump is in a position where he kind of wins the day on this issue, because everybody in power demonized him for taking what now seems to be a fairly common sense

position. Well, he definitely wins the issue, because Biden spent three years allowing him to own it as president of the United States when he could have done something. And again I told you guys this earlier even though I've been in this business a long time and it is a simple business it's a soundbite business it's an enragement business I see a lot of layers to things very often and two things three things four things can be true at the same time. We do need people to fill jobs in this country. We do need to have immigration that works for this country.

You also have to have a southern border that's secure and process it. When you talk to the people on the southern border about what they want, what they need, the people who are doing the job, CBP, they never start with a wall, okay? What they start with is rule changes on what is asylum, because economic asylum is not asylum and that's not what we're tied to under international law. We don't have to make it that. And they want rule changes, they want processing agents, they want places to put people, because

they are under tremendous emotional strain with what they have to see and do every day more than any other peace officers we have. That's what they want and they want all the borders, but it's not just a wall, right? You need sensors in some places. You need drones. You need all this different stuff and they want to double their manpower.

Nobody gave that to them. That's not what Trump gave them. Why couldn't get it through Congress. Biden didn't give it to him. Why can't get it through Congress. Do you need people to come to this country? Yeah. Are they taking your jobs? No. They're jobs that are open because we don't want to fill them. Also, by the way, to your point, Donald Trump for his first two years had Republican House and Senate and they still, and they still just are-

Because they're wasting time trying to repeal Obamacare. Why? Because that's what they thought the base wanted. That's my point about the pandemic, is you have to make them think that's what you want. Otherwise, they're not going to act on it. There's no upside to this, all right? Nobody wants to sit between these guys. Nobody wants to have themselves reviewed. Nobody wants anything, especially when they can't beat

the other party with it. Immigration is a great issue because it allows, and the left has opened themselves up to this. If you don't want a bunch of brown voters who you think are beholden to you, then why are you doing this? And they don't have a good answer. So it opens the door to a theory about it being replacement.

And Trump did talk about it in a way that was offensive and beneath the dignity of his office. This is a nation of immigrants. Yes, you have to come the right way. No question about that. But he was delivering a different message because there was reaction formation to what the left and the diversity crowd on the left was pushing and it's called white fright. This is a, I'd probably get more in danger, especially when I was at CNN. I thought

this was going to get me fired. This particular issue. I was wrong. But white fright is real, okay? And the response to that is, oh, what's the matter? You don't like having to share your power? Is it so you're going to have to earn something now? Oh. That's what you're supposed to say. I say, but they believe this. There are a lot of white people in this country,

and they believe that the culture is being redesigned to exclude them, and they think their kids can't get into schools, they think they won't get jobs, they think these things. I don't know if they think those things. I mean, DEI is the law of the land. I mean, they're openly discriminated against under the law.

I'm not saying they think it wrong, but you've never heard anybody talk about that on the media that way. Well listen, I'll just say this, okay? If you were to turn on the corporate media, and you'll hear about whatever, white fright or DEI or how there's such this racist portion of the country, Trump supporters are so racist

I don't know I think from what I've gauged in this crowd so far. It's been a fairly Trump friendly crowd I don't know you guys do you guys like Donald Trump? Okay, I See that was I see I see a bunch of races of people I'd see like this show is being hosted by an Iranian guy over here. I think Well, okay from huge insult, that's all right. We'll take no I didn't say Persian I didn't say Persian I said Iranian right I Adam now, you know, whatever it is We have a few Syrians in the house

If you turn off if you turn off cable news turns out this country is actually pretty cool And we're not that racist of a place to be in and if they would stop provoking these racial conflicts, there really wouldn't be much. I think the media is an echo of what you have two teams that are about. The reason that we're in the situation that we're in is that division is the best currency in politics. Yep. It works the best, okay? Enragement works in media, digital, linear, cable,

doesn't matter. People being angry, they'll watch. They'll come in. Everybody's got a reason to be angry about something. The only thing that can happen in a two-party system is exactly what we're living. Zero sum. I can only win if he loses.

It is way easier for me to make him lose than it is for me to prove to you that I am better. It's way easier to find something with him that's wrong. That's what they're doing. And it's been, you used earlier that this has been accelerating or evolving this dynamic. I actually, I agree with you, but in reverse. I think it's a devolving, I think that this is a breaking down of civility, of decency, of compromise, cooperation. You say, I want to get into Congress, I want to get things done, I'm going to work with the other side.

You are a dead man in a primary, especially on the right. That's what this is. The only antidote is bottom up. It will never happen top down. Well, the thing is that we're in a collapsing empire right now. And that's our job is to try to right this ship. But we're in a late stage empire. And that's what America is. And this rarely comes up in corporate media. But the USA is the most powerful empire in the history of the world. And we are the global empire right now.

But we're in the very late stages of that with all of the characteristics of a late stage empire. And what are those characteristics? Being way too expanded militarily, being very, very far in debt. And then what ultimately happens after that? The culture devolves into decadence. And that's why things are dumber than they've ever been before.

And that's why you have people, whether it's like a gay pride parade where two guys are slapping their butt cheeks together, and then they're going, we're standing up for our rights. Like, no, you're not. You're not fighting for rights. This is decadence. When you see, if you look back at, say,

like William F. Buckley's firing line, when it would be William F. Buckley going at it with Gore Vidal. OK, well just the level of intelligence there between that and like Sean Hannity going at it with Don Lemon. No offense. There's been a significant fall off. And I think that's what's going on all throughout the country.

And what's happening is that the most powerful people are trying to pit us against each other so that we're constantly fighting in a culture war so that we never all get together and realize that, you know what the left wing and the right wing of the culture war have in common? Both of their dollars have been destroyed by the Federal Reserve. OK?

But that never gets covered on CNN. You know what I mean? I never see a big segment about that. Hey, how come all those years having the number one CNN show, not one segment about the secrecy of the Federal Reserve, the secrecy of the CIA? Instead, all we get from the corporate media

is, I don't know, the unvaccinated, the Trump supporter, the Biden supporter, pitting Americans against each other and all the while blaming the American people for these problems. Well, that's just not true. Most of the American people are good people. They want to take care of their family, go to work, be a

member of their community, try to give their kids a little bit more than they had. And if we had a better media in this country, they would be laser focused on the halls of power and how corrupt they are. Because man, is there a lot of corruption going on at the top here. Yeah, it's not fair to put it all in the media though.

No, I'm not putting it all. The media, a lot. I'm putting a lot of it on the media. The media is an echo of society. What you see in the media. Okay, then tell me this. What do you watch? What do you watch? What do you watch?

What do you watch? People watch what they like. People watch what confirms what they believe. Yeah, but that's a really condescending way to look at people. Listen, let me just say something. So when I wanna, so you think you say a lot of things on your show because you think people aren't gonna like them and they're not gonna agree, they

won't watch you anymore. I can't... If you want to ask, honestly ask this question, yes there are a lot of times where I say things on my show that I know my audience will be upset with me for. There's a lot of times when I know there's positions where I could get way more eyes on me and grow my audience, but I don't take that position. You are the most amenable libertarian I have ever talked to. No, that's, no, I'm just an honest person, man. And it's totally, like, it's totally, you are so insane. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no not the American people. They're not libertarians. No, no, no. What you said before that was not about me and that's what I was responding to.

When you say that people just want to listen to whatever confirms their bias, I don't think that's actually true. But that's what goes well in the media. That's all I'm saying. No, but I'm saying I don't think that's true. I disagree with you. So I'm saying I don't think that's true. I don't think that Joe Rogan just confirms the bias of the people who listen to him.

Joe Rogan has a unique platform. He is a unique figure within that world. Yes, right. Okay. Anyway, listen, when I try to figure something out, like I've done like a bunch of like debates and shows about the war in Gaza right now. I've done like eight debates on this topic. What I try to do in preparing for that is I read the smartest people on all sides of the issue.

And they told you that Iran was shocked by what happened on October 7th? No, no, no. That's what the smartest people told you? Because I heard you say that on a show with Elika Laban. Well, let me just finish making the point that I'm making. And that actually, you know who said that? The CIA said that.

No, they didn't. Let me get back to that. The CIA did not say Iran was in shock on October 7th. Yes, okay. Anyway, let me get back to what I was saying. Go ahead. So I will read Benny Morris, who is a world renowned historian,

but is very much on the pro-Israel side. And then I will read John Mearsheimer, who is a big critic of the Israeli lobby and the current war here, and lots more people like that. I think there are lots of Americans who are smart about this stuff a big critic of the Israeli lobby and the current war here, and lots more people like that. I think there are lots of Americans who are smart about this stuff and who do actually search out people who have different views than them, especially intelligent people who have different views than them.

And listen, man, I'll tell you this, for example, for me, if I just supported Donald Trump and would just go, I'm on the Trump train, 2024. It would, I promise you, grow my audience, grow my bottom line, make me more money. I guarantee that 100%. The reason I don't. Picking a side outright definitely helps. Yes, right.

There's no question. And the reason I don't do that is because I just don't see that the guy's learned anything from his last administration to this one. And I think we're going to have all the same problems in the next administration that we had in the last one. But for you to just say that, like, as if everybody who hosts a show, or if you're saying me, I host a show, I just tell my audience what they want to hear, that's just not true.

No, I don't mean that that's all you do. I'm saying that there is a proclivity, especially when you're a solo act doing things. And you bring guests on. Again, I've watched 19 hours of your stuff. I watched comedy. I watched the skank thing. I watched what you do with all this stuff. Dude, it's so awesome. I got Chris Cuomo watching Legion of Skanks. I watched... I watched...

In preparation for this podcast. I watched the debate that you had about why you're a libertarian and you don't want to pay taxes and all this. And I would listen to all of it. I pay my taxes in case anyone's less than homeless. I have to. You have to, that's why. So look, I want everything you're saying about people having curiosity and reaching across

to be true. I just don't live it as a reality. Now, is it more true in my personal life than it is my professional life? Yes, why? Because in our regular lives, we don't talk about most of the things that you see on cable news or politics. People don't talk about it as much.

They talk about their kids. They talk about their interests and their passions and whatever big things are happening. That's what they talk about. But once you get into Thunderdome, it's all about division all the time. So I'm at News Nation, right? Which I went to because I liked what the guy

who runs it, this guy Perry Sook. He owns the most TV stations in the country. And he has this cable one now. He was like, look, I just want you to have people on from across the spectrum. Just have them on. I was like, oh man, it's going to get loud. You know, that's not normal, the decorum that they want, you know. It's not the legion. But I mean, it's usually, you don't want to

have people going at it. The audience will say, I don't like when they talk over each other. Well, that's what happens when people have conflicting ideas. So I went there for it. And they're really trying. They're really trying to have people have a range of representation in terms of the people who are on camera being transparent about what they think about things. I think it's kind of dangerous for journalists but I think that we've kind of evolved as a culture, not devolved, evolved where people want to know where the people on TV stand on the things that they're talking about.

It used to be that you didn't want to know so that you could believe that I was just dealing with both sides. Now I believe you want to know. And then you'll see how I deal with both sides. But that's just my opinion. But I see the struggle that News Nation is having by not picking sides and I see it in the ratings and I see it in the trends of stories and how they're covered You know even this trial if you are not he's going down. He's going down or this is a travesty. This is the worst You're not really getting a percentage of the audience and I think that's part of the reality also now

Do I believe that you can get past it? I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Well, I do know about it. It's a fact. I'll give you another fact. Please. Alternative fact.

Just four years ago, five years ago, Rogan had Bernie Sanders on. That's the guy he voted for. And his positions have changed tremendously from where Bernie was then to where he is at today. How come he hasn't lost following? I don't think it's about picking size, guys. And I'm going to give it to you as well, and then we'll wrap up because we've got to finish up as 9-07.

We've got to go to the lounge, cigar lounge, have a couple cigars, and have somebody go home and do their things. I think in regards to News Nation saying, well, we don't want people talking over each other. You know who proved that model wrong? That's Piers Morgan. He's killing everybody on TV and podcasts since October 7th. He's the number one podcast from October 7th until now.

TV show, what he's done with his program and bringing everybody in and, you know, Bassam Youssef, you had him on, we had him on, and oh my God, 38 million views. He took advantage of this. It was kind of like the Morton Downey Jr. to back in the day. You guys know who he is? Yeah.

And then also, going back to you, to Dave, I don't think it's about whether I guarantee you if I go to Republican I'm going to get more. I guarantee you if I go to this I'm going to get more. I guarantee you if I go to this I'm going to get more. I'm staying as a libertarian and all this other stuff. I think there's also a level of growth for you, for me, for all of us. What do I mean by this? And Elon Musk was never Republican. And Elon Musk was not a fan of Trump.

And Elon Musk was a completely different guy, okay? He's got more popularity and trust today than he's ever had before. People are following him, he's doing what he's doing, right? He was a guy that was on the left. Then he started hypocrisy, then he was a little bit more of a libertarian, but he realized, well, libertarian, you're just not going to win. Look who you guys just elected. That guy's not going to win. You know it. You can like him, he can be a nice guy. No, he's going to be the next president of the United States of America.

So you have that part, but watch what they're doing now. And Elon Musk and Trump and Tucker? If somebody told you eight years ago, 2016, how Tucker was thinking about Trump and the stuff that was leaking, and what Musk was thinking, that eight years later there could be a unity between those, that's not called their pandering to win more. I think they're sitting there saying, let me just finish my thoughts, I want to listen to you guys because we want to wrap up. I think that's more sitting there and saying, you've got four years of Biden to look at

now. Almost four years. You've got four years of Trump to look at now. If I'm sitting there and I've got two people coming for a job interview, this guy comes here, so listen, I noticed the last two years you haven't worked, what happened? Oh, you know, I had a sick family member I had to take care of and that's why I've taken two years off. Yeah, yes, or maybe, according to me having done thousands of interviews, you had a job

that fired you, you don't want to put on your resume because you don't want me to make the reference call, that could be the case. Now this other guy here, I look at his resume and I'm like, okay, while this guy was doing this, he's done this, he's done this, he's done this, he's won in media, he's won in business, he's won over here. Yeah, if I pick this guy versus this guy's resume, when this guy was in town, there was Russia, Ukraine, and we gave a bunch of money to Ukraine, he became the greatest beggar of all time, Zelinsky, and Israel and Hamas, that kind of shit.

And then, let me see what else is going on. Economy, oh my God, the middle of America is getting destroyed, the Max 7 is making all this money, look how much billionaires, these guys are making money, but I thought Democrats were for the poor and Republicans were for the rich, but most of the top billionaires worth over $100 billion, 80% of them are for the left, why are they giving money to the left? I'm confused. But this guy over here, there used to be something we used to think about with ISIS.

ISIS disappeared. There was no war. Nothing happened with Ukraine and Russia. Nothing happened with Israel and Hamas. In North Korea, Russia, Putin, Xi. Wait a minute. I got these two guys. And I know you guys like to say you have the worst of two.

I don't think you do. Wait a minute, I got these two guys, and I know you guys like to say you have the worst of two. I don't think you do. I think one side we have a resume that shows us results on what happened. This other side, we have a resume that shows us chaos. Chaos, complete chaos. That is the exact word that the other side uses to describe the other resume because you're leaving out who was in there at the time. Did you hear what all those black people were saying?

All seven? You think it's only seven? Did you go to Bronson? Did you see how many people show up to Bronson? I think that if he gets more... Oh wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah, I did. Okay, how many people show up

when Biden goes out there and campaigns? Not as many, because he does not have the celebrity value that Trump does. It's not about not as many. I think what's happening in America, there's a part of it. If it was a Republican establishment candidate that was doing all of this bullshit that's taking place, taking advantage of the other guy, going after the guy on the left. So let's just say the other guy's an anti-establishment Democrat RFK.

Let's say RFK's the Democrat right now, and Trump is the Republican. And if Trump was the president today, and- Latest poll has Bobby beating Trump. If Trump was the President today, and RFK was the former, and Trump was court, DOJ, documentation, everything, I'm willing to tell you, a lot of Republicans would have gone from here and said, listen, man, I just don't like the way you're treating RFK. I'm supporting RFK. I think there's a group of people right now as Democrats and Libertarians that are saying,

I'm sorry, this year I'm going this way. I don't know that Democrats are going. Well, I mean, just to back up your broader point there, I mean, there were hundreds of counties across this country that went for Obama. I got a clip for you to play when you say, I don't think Democrats, specifically for him. That then went for Trump. Yeah, let me say this.

Go ahead, Dave. I hear you. He's greatly discounting how much Trump makes people feel both ways. You have more voters than we've ever seen before say there's nothing that could make me vote for this guy and there's nothing that could make me not vote for this guy. We've never seen anything like it. I think I think he's definitely the most polarizing figure in modern American history. I think he's probably less polarizing this election than he was in the 2020 election.

And I think that's just because Joe Biden's done such a bad job. I gotta think about it. I think that with these, this New York thing really changed the dynamic for me. I see it being perceived differently. I think people really believe he's a victim even when they say he did it, which again, I've never heard of before. I've never heard of it before. I think people really believe he's a victim

even when they say he did it, which again, I've never heard of before. I've never heard of people saying, yeah, he probably did it, but they shouldn't have done this to him. That's very- Well, it's interesting in a way because I do think there's a point to that, right?

That like, even if Bill, you know that like if Bill Clinton had mishandled some classified documents, they weren't gonna raid his home over it. You know what I'm saying? And in fact he did and they didn't. And I do think that Joe Biden had a pitch in 2020 that he doesn't have in 2024.

And his pitch in 2020 was, let's go back to normal. Look how crazy the last four years are. I've been the guy who's been in Congress for 17 centuries. Let's just go back to normal old Joe Biden. The COVID was that year. So he could not campaign much and kind of defend it by saying, hey, I'm being responsible. It's always different when you have a record. Now, but also I think there was a big

narrative that was blown up. And I actually understand where a lot of people in the corporate press kind of embrace this narrative, because I think it was a much easier one than to look at what was really going on but I think they kind of felt like Donald Trump made things crazy like everything was kind of going along the way it was and then here came this guy Donald Trump in 2016 and he made things crazy when really he was a symptom of the problem not the cause of it and you found that out when you removed him in 2020 and put Joe Biden in there and it

was just as crazy. Watch this clip here. Democrats don't vote. I want you to play this clip, Rob, if you got it. And he does stir the pot like no one else has ever done. I voted Democrat. You're Puerto Rican, you know, you're Spanish, you live in the hood, you're supposed to vote Democrat.

But once you start waking up to, you know, the biggest mistake they did was mess with Trump because that woke up a lot of people, a lot of people. What they're doing now is waking up even more people. So it's, you would never guess all these people here for Trump, you would never see it before. You couldn't even see that in 2020. You wouldn't see it, but now you're seeing it. The worst thing they did is do what they do.

What they're doing to him, it's just making it easier for us to go on the other side. What they're doing to us, the American people and the working class, you're making us go somewhere else. You're losing votes. I would never, ever, ever, ever vote for them, ever again. Not locally, not no state, federal, nothing. And that's a Democrat. And there's a lot of people that I think feel that way right now in America. So anyways, gang, more than anything else, for all of you guys watching out there who are with us, we appreciate you guys tuning in. Again, a lot of times when this happens, people send me messages, I'm like, listen, ask the

source. Rob, if you can put up their monecks, you can moneck them directly and they'll get back to you. Whatever side, you agree, disagree, respect, whatever you want to say, you get to communicate with these guys directly and they'll respond to you. For the audience out here that are still here with us, and you as well, you've done a great job. I know it's late for you, but I think you've been fantastic.

That was great timing on the outro. It's late, but he's 82. He wants to get some rest. You will. Can we make some noise for what a phenomenal job both of these gentlemen did being out here. I appreciate you guys. Chris, Dave, appreciate it.

And also the entire crew here, music, background, everything you guys did. This is the best one you guys ever done. Shout out to Kelly, Rob, everybody else here. Thanks so much everybody. Have a good night. The future looks bright. Take care everybody. Bye bye.

Patrick McDavid, how about him?