PBD Podcast - Curt Schilling | PBD Podcast | Ep. 195

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Curt Schilling, Tom Ellsworth, & Adam Sosnick. PBD Podcast Episode 195.  Curtis Montague Schilling is an American former Major League Baseball right-handed pitcher who is a commentator for conservative media outlet BlazeTV. He helped lead the Philadelphia Phillies to a World Series appearance in 1993, and won championships in 2001 with the Arizona Diamondbacks and in 2004 and 2007 with the Boston Red Sox. . . . Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

I know this life meant for me. Yeah, why would you bet on the life when we got that David value payment giving values contagious this world on your panoras we can't no value to hate it. I don't run home. You look what I become. I'm the entrepreneur. I've got a special podcast here for you today with a man to myth, the legend, Kurt Schilling. If you don't know who this man is,

let me kind of share with you his resume. And then what else, you know, some other things we can talk about him, but first things first. 2001 World Series MVP with the Diamondbacks. He won the World Series again in 2004 with the Red Sox, the big one where they came back and they beat the Yankees, which if you've seen the captain, you're in the captain twice by the way, one with the Diamondbacks, one with the Red Sox.

Then again 2007 World Series. When you look at his resume, there's only two players in the history of baseball who have 3,000 strikeouts, not on the hall of fame, it's himself, and Roger Clements is the other one. One of them is obviously not in it for steroids. This one, it's because of other reasons which we'll definitely get into today. What else can I tell you? Record for most strikeouts in a single season as a right-handed pitcher for the National League. The record that he's had three seasons with 20 plus wins, he's in the Boston Red Sox Hall of Fame.

He's in the Philly's Hall of Fame. He's just not in the Hall of Fame because out of the what, 399 writers that get to vote whatever the number is, just like most professors in America that for everyone conservative, Professor 13 are liberals. Most of these writers are on a side that don't agree with his political leanings and this is being said by a lot of different players even Bob Costas who doesn't agree with Kurt Schillings a politics said you belong

in a hall of fame because of what you did when you played in the field so having said that with that being said Kurt thank you so much for being a guest in the class. Hey, it's an honor. It's a privilege, really. As I'm a fan, I've become a fan. I, in my life, doing the things that I did, I always sought the best.

Got to look for study, research, advice, and you know, you're somebody, you're first of all, your story's amazing. Thank you for your service. And you're a 101st Airborne. My dad was 101st Airborne, so I felt an imperative to show up and be on this one. It's crazy. Thank you for your service and you're a 101st Airborne. My dad was 101st Airborne, so I felt and imperative to show up and be on this one. It's crazy. Thank you for that and thank you for your dad's service. You were talking

about how your dream was to go in a military. Well, 13 years old, living in Arizona, my dad had recently retired and I went out to our garage in Arizona and his Rucksack was there. And I opened it up and his jump boots were in it and they were freshly polished. And this was five years after he had left the service. And my first thought was, I want to do something that instills that much pride in what you do. My dad was still polishing his jump boots five years after he was out.

And that resonated with me and stuck with me forever. And I don't know. Fortunately, I guess I learned how to throw a round ball kind of hard, accurately. Not a pace well. Yeah, it's okay. It did all right. You know how to throw a pitch.

I saw career earnings. Today, you'd be one of those $300 million pitcher type of guys, but still career earnings. Even when you pitch, you made $110 million. You make good amount of money. I made a110,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 I don't have to work, I'm retired. My Mondays and Saturdays are the same. So that's not a bad thing. But yeah, I mean, and I promised myself, I'd never be that guy. Like, gosh, if I made what they made today,

but I look at it now and I'm thinking to myself, I see these one year, $30 million deals, and I'm thinking to myself, wow. Charles Barkley talks about that a lot. Basically how these cupcakes are making $100 million in the NBA, they're no neighbors. Well, you know, who was the first one that got a weird contract where I'm like,

it's serious? And remember when basketball, basketball, basketball was a guy from Seattle, Seahawks, the one guy that got a six year old Seattle, Super Sonic, not Sean Camp. No, Sean Camp was a player. I told him about that live shrimp. No, it was another guy that got a six year. He had a good shot.

He was average 19 points. He got 120 million. Then Connolly. Mike Connolly. Mike Connolly from Memphis or something. Got $150 million. The $140 million. I'm like, they have no choice.

That's pretty crazy. Now you don't even need to be an all-star in the NBA to get $100 million. He don't have a contract. He can be an everyday player. The backup pool. Exactly. That's what I'm thinking of. I just got punched out by Dremont Green.

Your butt is a hundred million. From Miami. Duncan Robinson, not Duncan Robinson. Yeah. Kelly. Oh, he wrote, he wrote, got how much? Oh, Tyler hero. He got how much? He got, yeah, he's probably making 30 million a year for five years. Well, happened, happened in baseball too. Right? He's six minute a year at least. You only need one general manager to cross the line. It's like, uh, was it the Rangers gave Chan whole park? Everyone then there's always that one. There's a Chan Hope park contract after the Chan Hope park contract. I looked at that and I said he should be forced actually based on his performance to pay

a tax to actually play baseball. I remember I was a player. I was a crazy man. The lockout 94. I remember all the owners talking about trying to keep each other rained in. And you're talking about 30 billionaires. You know what's not going to happen. And they're talking about fiscal sanity.

And I try to keep trying to explain to the fans, you understand the owners are trying to tell us, to tell them how much they can spend on us. There's no logic to this. And sir, and up during the lockout, when the timeout salaries and contracts, Jerry Mindsoff goes out and signs Albert Bell to some monster contract,

and Jerry can't sit in the room and look across the table and say, this is Albert Bell like Joy Bill, Cleveland. Yeah. Albert Bill was a beast. He had 51 homers and he was ridiculous. Did he want something happen? He threw the ball at the fans or he did something he got suspended for.

He got suspended a couple of times. Yeah, he was, he was a different set. He was a second baseman. He ran through the second baseman. Yeah, yeah. So, so, you know, a lot of times people, you know, the conversation comes up and, you know, why certain people are not in the hall of them.

You've been asked this many times, you've been on the Conan O'Brien, I think it was Conan O'Brien show where he asked you about, hey, do these guys belong, et cetera, et cetera. And it always comes up with bonds, do you put the aster, do you put all this stuff? I saw this picture I wanna share with you. How much of this picture hurt you getting into the Hall of Fame?

Well, I mean if you look at it's a 10-year cycle. Yeah, you go on five years after you retire and you're on the ballot for 10 years And for me, I've always been asked if I was the Hall of Fame I wouldn't be in my Hall of Fame because to me the Hall of Fame is I say a name and you say yes or if you pause then it's a no You know, so I'm a I'm a guarantee, you know, if I say Mar name and you say yes, or if you pause, then it's a no. So I'm a guarantee, if I say Marino Verri, you say yes. If I- Great disclosure of all time.

And if I say something like Andy Pettit, you're gonna sit and think for a minute. Right. Anybody you have to think about to me shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. So I'm not in mind and I'm okay with that. But when you look at the vote totals over 10 years, I never want a game or struck out a hitter

after I retired, my vote totals change yearly. And to me, that was always, you know, one in done for me would have been fine. And after about five years, the process became so painful at home that I just dreaded the time of the year coming around because of the things that were said. And, you know, I think it goes,

but what, I know it started the day we wanted to know for, the day after we wanted to know for 86 year occurs and all the stuff that goes with it, I was on Good Morning America. What the red socks are, so. Yeah, and I was, I was one of the Disney guys, you know, I was, I after the game, I said, hey, we're going to Pedro and David and I were the Disney guys.

So that was, hey, you just won the World Series, where you're going? So we're going to, thanks Kurt Shelling. So on, we flew back from St. Louis and it was just an unbelievable morning. And I was doing good morning with Charles Gibson at the end of the,

it was right around the election in 2004. And I said, hey, at the end of the election, at the end of the show, I said to Charles Gibson, I said, hey, make sure you tell everybody to go out and vote and vote, Bush. Why didn't think, right? I'm in New England, you know, I'm carrying group five minutes more.

And Charles Gibson's looking at me and there's like a 10 second pregnant pause of, nobody said anything and I'm like, this is awkward. And he's like, yo, okay. And after that, it just went nuts. I got a call from President Bush like 20 minutes later, hey, I want you to come campaign with me and blood

and the red socks went nuts. They were like, we don't want you to do this. And we don't want you to get involved. And then they started flying John Kerry around on the owner's private jet when I was, so it started then. And our charity suffered. We lost tens of millions of dollars. We've worked with ALS for almost 30 years.

And my wife's Melanoma Foundation lost sponsorships and all the things to go with that. It just steamrolled. And that was the beginning. The beginning of the end for me was, and I think if you, and I've researched this, so I'm comfortable saying this, I believe that I was kind of ground zero of the cancel movement.

I was the first guy to really get canceled for doing nothing. I compared Islamic extremist denazis, which historically is factually perfectly correct. I said men should use the men's room and women should use the women's room. I said Hillary Clinton shouldn't just be in jail. She should be under a jail somewhere, which she still should be. And then I commented on a picture of trans-bathom law. And that was the one that ended up being the one

that ESPN fired me for. Out of all of those, that's the one that got ESPN. Yeah, yeah. And I would like to think it was because I was really, really good at what I did, that they kind of held back and held back, but it was the weirdest working environment. I mean, I can't tell you how many hundreds,

hundreds, and I mean hundreds of People the espionage come up and say it was like I'm with you politically. I can't say anything But I'm with you. I'm with and it was just really awkward and uncomfortable You know, it's crazy when I was their interview and Stephen A Smith Okay, and we were I was with Ray Dalio and in afterwards we context even as they come on by let's do it in New York. So I go sit down. I'm here getting ready to talk to Stephen A and we want to talk politics on by, let's do it in New York. So I go sit down, I'm here, getting ready to talk to Stephen A, and we wanna talk politics and sports, right? And you see one of his guys,

handlers comes up, say, say Pat, like we follow your content, we know what you're doing, just please don't talk politics. That's what he wants to talk about. You can't talk politics. I said, that's what he wants to, you can't talk politics, you can't talk politics.

He says, if you talk politics, producers saying you can't do the interview. Anyways, long story short, what do we talk about sports, right? So they're standing right there while I'm doing the interview. And every time you get close to it, they would come behind the camera and signal. And then just recently, they've been, they've launched a podcast. I don't know if you saw that or not. And the first guess he had on was Chris Cuomo.

You know who the second guess was? Sean Hannan was the second guess. And it was on Fox being interviewed by Waters and Waters said, am know who the second guest was? Sean Hannity. Was a second guest and it was on Fox, being interviewed by Waters and Waters said, am I your favorite host on Fox? This is now my good friend, Sean Hannity. So I kinda like where he's going. Obviously, he's still gonna play to the ESPN,

but the fact that he's even talking about it, that's some progress. I think we're starting to see that with a lot of hard left. I went out on Stephen A Smith when Washington, Robert Griffin was in Washington and he was benched because he sucked. And Stephen A tried to make it a bit about color and it wasn't.

And he did that. I've heard nothing but great things of people that have met Stephen. I don't really know him. I think he really get to know him. But now imagine, imagine me, Eddie, SPN. And I'm very comfortable being who I am and saying the things I say.

Can you imagine what the producers were like every night for baseball tonight, worried about a comment? Because, you know, and we used to have fun in the green room. I would talk to the guys and once the Trump analysis, he was running, I said, listen, guys take the under. And they're like, what are you talking about?

I said, the over under on me being fired by March of next year is I would take the under because the Trump's running, there's going to be problems. And I'm not going to be, I'm not going to have an issue talking and saying how I feel about things and people are going to have a big problem. When you started saying stuff about Trump, did that cause anything at first, or did we're okay with that? Well, I was never, I mean, I was never blatant. What, and you know this is all as anybody.

The things that are said and done are very, there's a chasm between those things and what people report was said and done, right? I mean, well, for example, I'll give you a great example. I have been in the World War, the board of directors of the World War II Museum in New Orleans. I helped put the Richard Winner statue over in Breacorp Manor in France and then World War II, military history has always been a passion of mine. Clearly grew up a flag-waving patriot. My dad was, my whole family served in all different branches,

lag-waving patriot. My dad was, my whole family served in all different branches. And I have a very large collection of World War II memorabilia. And I'm dumb and I'm naive in the sense that I believe in the inherent good in people. And I had a young lady from the Boston Globe asked to come out and do a story about my collection. I was like, great, that's awesome. I have General Bernard Montgomery's beret,

the one you see him in pictures. I have that. And all the iconic. Wow. Yes. And I have all the correspondents. I have all these things. I have stuff from Patton, everything.

And she came out and she left and did the story. And the story came out. And it was a picture of some German uniforms. And it said Kurt Schilling's Nazi memorabilia collection. That's what the title was. That was the story. The entire story was about that. And I was just flabbergast.

I was crushed. Again, I'm a, what year is this? This was probably less than 10 years ago. This was during the Hall of Fame stuff. And so, you know, I, and I got to see it firsthand. As a 86% of the sports media is reportedly liberal, hard leaning left. I would tell you that probably the same majority

of athletes are right, center right. Because as an athlete, you don't get handed in anything. You have to, I mean, as much as people like to think you've been given, athletes are some of the hardest working human beings. There's no question about it. And especially the elite one. Well, it's also the opposite of what I thought.

I came to the big leagues and Cal Ripken was my first shortstop in the big leagues. And I just assumed, you know, this guy's just gifted. Well, Cal Ripken worked harder than any shortstop I ever played with from that day forward. It kind of spoiled me on short stops and ruined my image because everyone I played with after that and thinking to myself, you're not Cal Ripken,

why are you not working harder? And Barry Bond, same way of work ethic. Manny Ramirez was one of the hardest working players I ever many romance. Unbelievable. Oh, so you have to understand the life. When we travel, you know, it's a it's a it's a tough travel. And I say tough in the context of playing sports. Every morning at 10 a.m. on the road,

Manny was in the hotel lobby with the waycoach, but went to lift and then went to the park and hit it noon. Every single day, that takes immense amount of work ethic but discipline. And I found that to be a common thing and I'm sure that you'll relate to this. Every great player and I studied, Dr. Ben Carson, one of the best brain surgeons in the world, and tennis players and baseball players and any profession I was always looking for the best, because I wanted to find out. I didn't always looking for the best because I wanted to find out I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. I wanted to see if I could find shortcuts and

The one thing I found was everybody that's great at everything. There was an insane attention to detail the minutia That's what's said. Well, you start thinking about it You have two and a half hours of game time every night, which is equal amongst all of your peers There's 21 and a half hours of day left. What do you do with those? That's where the separation comes. Because at some point in your life, you step on a stage or you step on a field where everybody's as good or better than you. For most of the population that happens in high school or junior college or college. For a minute percentage, it happens in professional sports. And when you step on that field for the first time and everybody's as good or better than you,

how do you react? And that to me was watching how they reacted and talking. Every guy that was living in the hall of fame, that seeker, Gibson, Feller, Kofax, Ryan, Dreistale, Tony Gwyn, all of them, I spoke to all that, I talked, I dug, because I wanted to know what makes them tick and I learned as much from Tony Gwyn and many Ramirez about pitching as I did from any pitcher just because of talking to the best of the best at what they do.

Many Ramirez that just gave a complete different perspective. Probably the one of the two smartest offensive players I ever played with. Who would you put ahead of him? Him and Lenny Dykstra. Lenny Dykstra? players ever played with. Who would you put ahead of him? Him and Lenny Dykstra. Lenny Dykstra? Uh, mentally, offensively as talented Lenny Dykstra and Manu Ramirez were the two guys in my life that I play with who multiple times told me what was going to happen and then it batted before it happened and it happened exactly what I said it was going to remember the story that who Billy Bean told about Lenny Dykstra. Which one? You interviewed Billy Bean, obviously. I do.

He told multiple stories. He says, one story memory said is like, why are you reading? That's bad for your eyes. It's gonna help you. You need your eyes for hitting. To see, he's like, why am I reading? You mean?

But Lenny Daikstra was that focused on hitting, not reading for- He was a beast, he was listening. A host career, whatever he did, I'm not even talking about that. Yeah. Well, and I gotta tell you, I'm still, I still speak with him every now and then. The off the field stuff was crushing to me because it was, it was horrible. He was a degenerate and he'd probably be the first to admit that he's just completely screwed his life. But

on the field, one of the funnest guys to watch playbots. So we're playing in game five, game five of the playoffs in 93 against the race. It's extra. And his fillies, fillies, fillies, that's before that. Yeah. What you're new in the mess. Right.

And they tied it up in the ninth inning. Lenny tells me he said, and I'll tell you the whole so Lenny had a list. All right. And this is Lenny talking. He's like, hey bro, this is what's going to happen bro right here. I'm telling you right now, bro he had a list. All right, and this is when so this is when he talking he's like hey bro. This is what's gonna happen bro right here I'm telling you right now, bro. This is what's gonna happen Well Mark Waller's just pitching. He said this dude's gonna work. I'm gonna work this count Again that dude and we're gonna get it full. I'm gonna get a full count

He's gonna try and throw me a high bath ball. I'm going yard Watch you back work. He tells you this works the count full high fast ball home run to center field And he's running around third base in slow motion. You can hear him. He's screaming Didn't I did not and he did things like it but mentally he had he was born some people are born to do things He was born to play bass with that you guys also had Darren Dalton right was like one the best catchers and a league at the time so When I mice and I'll tell long-winded stories to get to the point, but when I was in my first trip

in the Middle East, I was at the headquarters of the fourth ID. The day three men got lost, three men lost their lives on patrol, and they came back and informed the fourth ID, Major Hammond, I think, is his name at the time. He addressed the room, and it was one of the most powerful five minutes of my watching him address his soldiers.

I'd never seen, I'd never felt, you could feel it, right? I mean, it's just that sense of leader, some people were just born to lead. And this guy clearly had everything about him was lit, that was Darren Dalton. The best leader of people in any venue I've ever been around. In what way? In what kind of like?

Never said the wrong thing at the wrong time and always said the right thing at the right time. Wow. And this is what a leader is, right? A leader is the person who puts his position in the best people in the best position to succeed. Don't care what you do for a living, right? You understand your roster, you understand who's,

what strengths are and what weaknesses are, and you put those people accordingly. Darren knew us to the point where Philadelphia, Northeast media could be a little bit of an animal, right? You can play the game and then you have to play the media game afterwards. Darren, I'll give you a quick example, middle of the season, I'm struggling

having the worst month of my career, and it's all self-inflicted. And we just get, I pitch a game in St. Louis and I give up like 505 runs in two innings it was it was horrific and it's 190 degrees out on the turf there and after the game we had another picture on our staff who was really really good but but mentally wasn't a strong guy Darren ghosts the media comes a Darren he says you know he calls me out. He said, you know what, this guy's worried about all the wrong stuff doing all it. And just he's saying just to the media over just burying me.

And, and the other guy, he doesn't really say much about, but he hints that it's more than one guy. And the media come sprint, no, we're filled up in media there and love with this, right? They come right over my locker and they lay out this laundry list of things that Darren just said about me. And they look at me and they're like, what do you got to say?" And I was like, he's right. He was.

And I, okay, I got called out for some, I had never had a problem. Listen, as a Christian, the one thing I'm telling you is I'm admitting to you that I'm far from perfect. So I don't have a problem being wrong. I have a problem being wrong twice. But I was like, yeah, he's right. And I knew what he was doing more importantly. So then, stupid me, he says, well, you know, this and that, I'm not going to lose again

the second half. And I didn't. But the point was I was, I was really, you know, no, no, I was that guy. Well, you said this to Hudo, you're not going to lose again. The media. You told him, you're not going to lose. I did that a lot though, because, well, because a lot of it, sometimes nothing out there will put the challenge to you that you put to yourself.

That's right. And I'm okay with that. But by the way, the other picture we want to talk about is named, was he also protecting him? That's why he threw you on the bus? Exactly, because he knew you could take it and he couldn't. Exactly, right. And I don't know if this dynamic happens in the military,

but I've had situations where as a coach, I want to find a player, preferably my star. Listen, I'm gonna address you in front of the team. Don't take it personal. I don't mean it to you, but if I can address you in front of the team, then nobody's exempt, right? That you always want that guy.

And I was comfortable being that guy. Cause I knew who I was. But was he a feared guy? Was he a respected guy, Dalton? Both, so he was. But was he a feared guy? Was he a respected guy? Both. Both. So he was. He was a bad guy. So would he push around?

Because he wasn't a big guy. He was not a... In 22 years of professional sports, I never was on a team that got in spring training fights. We fought four times that spring. We cleared benches with us. We as who? Our team cleared benches with other teams four times.

Because we finished in last year before and we were like, you guys are pushing us around, and we were big bunch of boys. Yeah, John Krock who was the big big-a-billion guy, right Dave Holland's who was the meanest toughest player I ever played with in my life Dave Holland Dave Holland's Seventh this guy has an operation broke his handmate bone is got a pin sticking out of his thumb 17 days after the surgeries and the batter's box playing in a game with a pin still sticking out of his hand Who also who else was on that team talking about all these bad ass dudes

Mitch Williams. Yeah, 22 years of plan based on only by love pitch only bad team I never had really only bad That's the only bad team. We got Mitch Williams. Yeah, cuz he was kind of a loose cannon pitch It was it. Yeah, he was what he was you had the guys that, it's funny too, because when I think back to the most impactful guys in the clubhouse setting, and it's one of the dynamics that, and I say this very loosely, I share with the military, the barracks, the police barracks, the fire barracks,

the sports clubhouse. Those are four places that the real world couldn't function. The things that we say and do to each other in those environments, because I can say anything I want about your mother, but nobody else can, right? In that environment. That is the definition of locker room talk.

It's the place where my god, I wish America was, because where you come from, what color you are and who you sleep with are totally irrelevant. Can you turn a double play with runners in scoring position? Okay, as long as you're not sleeping my wife, I don't really care who you sleep with. I don't care who you worship or pray.

Those things are irrelevant. And so it's the most racially inclusive club you'll ever be in. And the things that are said in there, if the real world knew, they would probably stop watching sports. The things that we say and do to each other in those environments, but it's how you

distress. Because we lose a game. But we do it in front of 50,000 people on TV in front of hundreds of thousands. When you lose, in that environment, you lose a life. And there's a very different, obviously very different perspective. Right. Yeah. So, so Dalton, who else did you play with that was an incredible captain of the team, leader

of the team? I played with, so, so, and I think it probably mimics real life. And I say that because coming out of professional sports and going into the software industry and running a company that was almost 300 strong, I saw the enormous discrepancies that should not have been between sports. And I say that in this way, in sports, you'll have guys, that six man in the NBA, you'll have that second and third line in hockey, you'll have that utility guy in baseball.

All those guys excel in those roles because that's what they're meant to do. That's six man if you played every, would get exposed. He has a weakness, that utility guy couldn't play 155 games, but he's exceptional playing 75 And I find in the real world. It's a lot like that in the sense that People get promoted out of their skill set you find a guy that's a tremendous producer and you say god You're so good at this. I want you to manage producers

Well, he's doesn't mean he's gonna be a good manager and you see that happen a lot Example great players don't make great managers. Pete Rose wasn't a good manager. My first manager in the big leagues, Frank Robinson, I would argue the most underrated player in the history of baseball was a terrible manager. Terrible, because he couldn't understand, he's a Hall of Fame player, one of the greatest

had ever lived. Frank Robinson couldn't understand, if there's a runner on second, just hit a ground ball to the right side and move the runner over. How hard is that? Well, actually, it's kind of hard, Frank, it's in the on second, just hit a ground ball to the right side and move the runner over. How hard is that? Well, actually, it's kind of hard, Frank. It's in the big leagues.

It's, you know, but guys that are great at stuff sometimes have trouble understanding how you can't just do things. And I found that people, players in the big leagues, Doug Merbelle, I play with Doug and one of my best friends, Backup Ketcher, Todd Pratt, Backup Ketcher in Philadelphia, enormous clubhouse influencers. And I found it was this for this reason. Leadership is something I think it's genetic, right?

You can put a C on somebody's jersey, that doesn't mean they're actually gonna leave. Who was a real C though? And the reason why I'm bringing this up, because did you watch Captain? Did you watch all the episodes? So, you know, the conversation came, we were watching it this last weekend at the breakers.

We brought 50 of our executives and we watched the whole thing. We've done the same thing with Man in the Arena. We rented our flexible room. We watched it and we did the same thing with the last dance. We watched these types of documentaries. And one of the topics that came up was Geter won four out of five as a non-Captain,

but one out of five as a non-captain, but one out of 15 as a captain, which means, you know, if you take that as a, he always had a squad. This is like, he did not play as a captain. He's still a small sample size, but I understand the message. It's still a small sample size. So the question then comes to, you know, again,

going back to you, who would you say was a great captain? Well, so I, when I came up with the Oryl's, Cal Rifkin was kind of the guy, right? Cal Rifkin in a real clubhouse meeting. He's in front of the team and talk. Cal would go on the field and expect you to play the game the way he played the game. And if Cal had a problem with you, he'd pull you aside.

No one touched Aaron Dalton. Aaron Dalton was so far beyond anybody I ever played with as a leader. Jason Baratek was the captain in Boston. He didn't have clubhouse meetings. Same thing. I'm going to show up and play the game and work this way. I expect you to do the same.

So it was more about, because to me, leadership has two things. One is setting the example for people to follow. Number two is getting people to do things they wouldn't do on their own. Leadership is statistically agnostic in my mind. The best leaders I ever had had nothing, Darren Dalton, that's what made him so great. It didn't matter what his batting average was,

if there was something to be said, he said it. And there are a lot of guys who believe I have to do, I was never a leader in the sense, I was always a veteran and I led my pitching staffs, but I was never a club host there because I didn't play every day. I couldn't tell you what it's like to play game seven of the week on a Sunday day game when it's't play every day. I couldn't tell you what it's like to play game seven

of the week on a Sunday day game when it's 155 in St. Louis. But I could pull you aside and talk to you and tell you and that was what the great leaders did. They knew and same thing they knew their players. They're new. He could call me out. So we did. And then the guys he needed to pull aside and take behind in the back room. He did that too. I'll tell you a great story. A guy that we got in Oforlando Cabrera. We traded for him. He came over from the expose. I didn did that too. I'll tell you a great story. A guy that we got in O'Foura, Lando Cabrera, we traded for him, he came over from the expose. I didn't know him, I knew it played against him. We had a guy who star on the team,

and you'll probably guess who he was, but he was a Latin player. He didn't dress with the rest of the team. He dressed in the back with the trainers, he did his own thing. One day, right after the trade, Orlando comes over and this guy's name is scratched out of the lineup.

And now I'm in the part of the locker room where this guy dresses and there's hot tubs, and I'm in a hot tub. And Orlando comes back and this guy looks at Orlando and says, hey, Poppy, what's up? He's like, don't pop me. He's like, what's up? He said, your name's not in the lineup. Yeah, a little tight today. He's like, no, no, no. I'm going to come back here in 20 minutes if your name's not in the lineup. Yeah, a little tight today. He's like, no, no, no.

I'm gonna come back here in 20 minutes if your name's not back in the way, but you're not gonna go. Who said this to him? Orlando Cabrera said this to this guy. He said this to the guy who was a star. Yeah. We're gonna go.

We're gonna fight. We're gonna fight. I'm here to win a championship. I don't give a shit with this other stuff is. 20 minutes later, his name was was in lineup. That's a leader Back to your initial comment about sometimes if you're a great producer you might not be a great manager, right? So you know different qualifications for leaders like I'm a big NBA guy I mean, I know major league baseball as well NFL like it you know Michael Jordan Larry bird

Right even recently Steve Nash chasing kid these guys haven't never won a championship, never been to a finals, maybe Bird, maybe one time, but never won anything. But meanwhile, you've got Steve Kerr, he was a eighth guy on the bench, right? You've got, well, even Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, these guys were never in these. Look at the guys managing the playout teams right now.

You know, you had Scott, in Bayster, while you were, Seattle, Scott was a backup catcher. Yeah, I played with Scott, you know, he screened manager as a player. Aaron Boone, one of my favorite human beings in the world, not a superstar. You have that amazing hit. But I'm saying, they didn't have profound outstanding careers of like Craig Council.

I think one of the best managers in the big leagues. Bob Melvin, one of my, you know, these guys are all, and then there's the, you know, the Philly's manager. You got guys that, none of them are superstars. Now, they'll bring in the superstars as bench coaches or place it. But being a leader, again, to me, is statistically agnostic.

Is it because your skill set doesn't translate to being a cause? Right, it's the same thing in the military. You don't have to have the stripes on your jersey for the guys in your unit to look to you as a leader. Because when the shots start firing everybody's ducking their heads on the whole, they're looking to one guy. And that didn't, sometimes that's not the guy with the most stripes on his shoulder.

Who would you say Kevin Malar was? Would you say he was the locker room guy that ran lead or was he? He was just, he was, he was a guy who kept it light. He kept it light. Yeah. Because in a documentary, you know, it's like, hey, you just got to win one. We just got to win one. Right, right.

Well, I mean, and, you know, that was, that was a very different group of guys. I mean, we, you know, a lot of times when people asked me about the ankle and all the things that went around that, I tried to explain to them, I didn't do anything. I didn't think the other 24 guys would have done where they, in my place. And it's baseball to support and I don't want to go

to these extremes, but we would take a bullet for each other in that sense. Like you play with certain, you're with each other nine months every hour of every day. You get in fights, we got, there were fights in the club, we had some of the funniest, greatest like fist-acoff brawl ever at 2.30 in the club. I saw we had some of the funniest greatest like fist a cuff brawl ever at 2 30 in the morning out in front of a hotel on the road because we were drunk and

somebody said something stupid. But we were man, who was the best brawler? Who was like the one that just straight up was always down and was good at it. So the guy that, well, I don't. Jason Barrettick was a guy that I so I lock her next to Jason. Who loved to be naked and it was embarrassing. You know, he had like 2% body fat and he just sat around like puts him close on dude alright catcher I think Jason very yeah captain. Yeah, but but like Dave Hollins was the toughest player ever played with by a wide margin

They was feared yes, you pull him up Tyler Dave Hollins. Well, Nick name was headly because his head was like nine and three quarters Collins. Well, Nick name was headly because his head was like nine and three quarters. There he is. That's a young Dave. And by the way, his son, yeah, look at that head. That's like eight and a half half size. I just was with him last week. His son is going into his junior and high school. Probably gonna be I would tell you We'll be the number one pick in the end of mage like draft in two years. That could two ways. First basement picture left handed top of the rotation guy number four hitter type. So like a like a un oh, Tony type of guy. Yes. Unbelievable. What are your thoughts on that guy?

By the way, what he's done in the in the league. No one's ever seen it. Right. Since he's a blue. There's something and Aaron judge had a great year, but nobody was more valuable than a time. Not even close. He won 15 games.

I got 200 guys and almost 40 home runs. I mean, he's your ace. And he's your cleanup hitter. He should be the highest pay guy in the league, right? Well, Babe didn't do what he did at the same time. Babe Ruth was never a pitcher hitter during his season. He didn't, it overlapped a little bit,

but he never did both at the same time. No one's ever even come close to doing it, much less, he could be the best. The best level. Well, it's not even doing it at this level. It's the level at which he's doing it at this level. He's one of the best hitters in the game. And one of the best pitchers in the game at the same time.

Where would you put him ranked? Just pitcher. He's in the top 10. Easily in the top 10. And to hit or what? He's absolutely in the top 10. Is he a better hitter or a pitcher? Otani.

Yes. Yes. I mean, he's a guy. On any given day. What, yeah. Not many guys can win 20 games. He can have 20 games. Not many guys can get 40 home runs.

He can do both. What is really the market value for some, if he, if he, if he, If you're, you, you just said it. These guys are making 30, 40 million annually. He's worth twice that But and think about what that means to a team two roster spots used up by one player Yeah, that's a good point. So so it's a key that's a that's a great art who represents him by as a as a agent He's not that's gonna make a whole lot of money by percent Japanese guy American guy

It's an American guy. So you gotta realize this guy's, so the sale would be $30 million times two. Right. It's got a $60 million dollar your guy. Could you, you can't dispute it. I could make the argument if I'm representing him all day long. Very comfortable. Very comfortable.

Very comfortable. $60 million dollar guy. Kurt, if he continues this trajectory for the next five, 10 years, let's say all time rankings, where do you think he ends up all time? You're saying if he puts like 10, see what he does. So what do he when he continued to do? 100 games and it's 500 home runs. Yeah. I mean, he's one above favorite, but he's one of blue gear, above his one of mental. But again, he does, he's doing what they do at the plate. And he's throwing in Saiyans.

So appreciate greatness while it's happening in front of us. And I've said, I still believe, and unfortunately, he's been injured. I still believe Mike Trouts, the best player anybody alive will ever see. Having said that now watching this guy, there's two, and think about how bad that team is. These two guys are are are wasting away in Anaheim when can you imagine if they were on the Yankee? Oh my god. Wasting. They're on the same team. We were talking about the same. Exactly. And I can't make the playoffs. And you know what's interesting also. Otani, at least to the casual viewer from the outside,

really appears to be a really decent guy. They both are. They're both very, very good guys. If I was O'Connor and Kershaw picked me off because I wasn't paying attention, I was putting my gloves on at the All-Star game. Remember, you got the single and then he didn't put on his running gloves yet and all of a sudden, oh gosh, Kershaw got him.

And everybody, every player is laughing because it's like Clayton, you're not supposed to do the All-Star game for a ball. This is, and then I would have just read the dugout He just went back down and dug out Took it and actually smirked a little bit said well. I guess this is where I am But but you know that's the decent guy Billy being talked about that you know when you look at picking up players You know wonder to think is like temperament and character you can't teach that what you cannot teach the character that he's got

It's what the saber met so you know you've seen the influx of saber metrics and all the thing, you know, the Ivy League guys that never played the game and the baseball guys who hate them and all that other stuff. I, since I met Theo Epstein in the winter of 2003, it's the one thing I've always, I've always looked at the saber metrics guys,

the frustration for them. They can't quantify chemistry and it bugs them. Because I think Theo got a great lesson in that first year I was in 04. He realized that I can do all the stat, pouring and tracking I want and put the best roster together. But I can't sabremetically quantify chemistry

and I need those guys in my club. Can you ever, no, can you ever no can you ever come can you ever quantify chemistry on a business team me you that's like the unthinkable now that that's why it's very interesting we have a great investor that we've worked with over the years and he has said listen doesn't matter what era doesn't matter what industry fifty percent of the sea level guys that we bring in don't work after a year. And sometimes it's just the intangibles. That's right.

So it's always the intangibles. When it gets down to it, it's always the intangibles, right? I mean, you can find a roster of players who are, you know, major league average and they won't go 81 and 81. Why will they win 95 games and why will or why will they win 65? And it's what those guys that bring the intangibles to the part how powerful and how influential they are in the club. It's just last night's game. Just go to two nights ago. You got the Lakers playing the Golden State Warriors, right? The Lakers have three players that as superstars.

Hall of Famer. Yeah, I mean, you got Westbrook. You got Davis. You got LeBron going up against a team that all of them came up, not all of them. Most of themer. Yeah, I mean, you got Westbrook, you got Davis, you got LeBron going up against a team that all of them came up, not all of them, most of them came up as rookies. They were drafted. And you see the chemistry of what they got versus the chemistry that the Lakers have. They can't create that chemistry. It's what makes basketball so hard for me to watch is that there are, there's no team that should be able to go in the court with the Lakers and beat them.

Town, if you're talking about talent, none. And it happens all the time. Well, what's the famous quote? Culture, beach strategy for breakfast any day of the week. So, by the way, just a couple of the topics with sports going on right now, Trevor Bauer. So here's a guy that wins a siong. Okay, and I know you and him have gone back and forth.

And so he wins the siong. He calls it the Mickey Mouse trophy, whatever he calls it. it he's also another guy that's a good troll he knows how to get under people's skin and he was doing it regularly and but this guy was a you know qualified star pitcher you know he was a great one sionk he won the sionk you don't win the sionk luckily and then all of a sudden the story comes out and you know he can't play he's not getting paid never play again you don't think he's not getting paid never play again you don't think he's ever gonna play again but is that the servo no absolutely not no no he nothing happened

so what do you mean he's never gonna play and you you know as well as i do especially when you're talking about corporations and image and and a majority of owners are very liberal people they're not to touch him because sports has gotten to a very uncomfortable place. The professional sports has started to cater to fans who don't buy tickets. If you think about the fans they're catering to, they're catering to the fans who will go to their sponsors and boycott their sponsors. Not the people who show up at the ballpark or the stadium or the arena or the rink. And there's, think about the blowback. I mean, first of all, look at the

Dishon walks and stuff and how that's, I mean, Cleveland, I always say, you know, if you're a, if you're a Cleveland Indians fan or you're a Metz fan or you're a Rangers fan, you can't be mad at players, right? If you're bad for 30 years, the roster turns over. Your coaching staff changes. The only constant is ownership. And it's, owners just consistently suck at things. And it's just the way it is. Dan and Schneider, there's a reason the redskins

are continually bad. You know, there's a reason the Cowboys with the Supreme Rossor haven't made that final step. When the owner starts the medal, it's one of those, you're following over. Who's following me? Making step. When the owner starts the medal, and you're following over, who's speaking? Who's making that? When the ownership starts the medal, if you're gonna hire people to do things,

let them do it. You know that from business, right? You hire, you bring people in, you bring in someone to run your HR department, and then you medal in every decision that's made, that person's not running your HR department. So you're saying he's done done, he'll never pitch again.

I don't think he'll ever pitch again. Well, again. What can he do though? As a player, like, you know, we have a legal system. We have a justice system. What can you do? Can you hire lawyers and go, what can he do? And there's still nothing's going to happen. Sometimes I feel like sometimes I get asked questions.

You know the answer. You know the answer. And this day and age with the way society is going. It's not going to get better for him. Things aren't going to improve. Suddenly people aren't just going to suddenly start saying, well, it's in the past. I mean, there's some things that we don't have second chances for in any capacity.

And that has to be things with children, you know, things with women and abuse and things. We don't give second chances to people like that. And in many cases, I don't know about that. But see, this was not, there was no legal basis for them to do this other than he offended Major League Baseball. Yeah, but just a attorney sat on it for nine months and then didn't file. But but if you if you go to the drop charges, I mean, correct, they didn't find enough evidence. Go to the cowboys. Remember the cowboys when they always had issues, Leon,

every time stories would come out, well, this person, this and that person, this and girls, this and you would get LTE stories would come out. None of that is even close to what this is consensual, sexy, had. The girl comes back for a second time around. Right. And will the text messages to back up? What do you think?

All of it. And you still don't think it's going to ever play. Do you? I would think which team would risk you to sign him? Which team would be somebody that would have to think they would? Well, and let's just add to the fact that he's clearly kind of a dick. I mean, if you look at the way his teammates have talked about him and the things that he'd done, I mean, he and I got into it over the fact that he cut his finger on a drone during the playoffs and caught any and his response was Well, we won the game. I was like, well, it wasn't about winning the game. That wasn't the thing. You taxed your bullpen because you were

decking around with a drone and it cost your team down the road. He's a little short-sighted to see this unbelievably gifted talented pitcher, but I don't think there's any team that would want the headache. But Kurt, all it takes is one. Like, well, what comes to mind is like, you know, in the 80s and 90s, in the NFL, who was the team that would sign all the players with problems?

The Raiders, Al Davis. So if you had a freaking problem, you know, if you're the recent Antonio Brown, that's what I'm saying. Is there a team in baseball that's like, all right, we'll be the bad ass team. Who's the running back for the Ravens? So Ray Rice? Ray Rice. I mean, if you look at some of the stuff that's happened. But what he did was, Astronomically, we're all so much ever buying. So I apologize for using that as a comp. That's not really, but if you look at what's happening now, it's got at the end of the day, that's what people say, oh, you play the game for a living. No, no, no, no, no.

Baseball's a $10 billion your business. And I'll never forget that. These, the only thing owners hate more than, than bad press is losing money. And this, there's no, what's the advantage to bring in this guy? And he has to win 20 games, 25 games, with a sub two ERA to be even remotely break even because of the blowback you're going to be dealing with. But even if you give him a veteran's minimum, well, the guy who used to make 30 million

the problem, I mean, you got to just going to be some value there, no problem becomes when you go to a New York every single start of Trevor Bauer season. All 25 guys are being asked what they think about Trevor Bauer. It's an enormous like mehete. It is. And your teammates have to deal with it. And you know, I'm sure I've seen video he's running around like throwing to hitters I've never heard of. And I think that's my phone video, he's running around throwing to hitters I've never heard of.

And I think that's my phone actually. I apologize for that. I thought I turned it off. Those were my chickens barking. But no one wants to deal with it. And I really don't blame them. It's... But just so you know, at 30 years old, here's how we got paid.

We played football to Diamondbacks for four years. For two years, he got 1.18. Then we got two years Indians 1.18. Then we went to one nine. They didn't went to 3.5 million with the Indians. Then six five, then 13 million Indians. Then 17 five reds, then 31 Dodgers, 35 Dodgers, he's supposed to be at 35.

Obviously he's not getting paid. This is gonna cost the sky. A couple of a hundred million dollars. And he's at the peak of his career. And one man, a young peak of his earning potential. Peak of the earnings potential. I've, man, this is, this is a very, very strange to me. Well, you see the way baseball has played it.

So they let the, they let one section of it play out. So that goes from July to the end of the next season. So there's a year and a half of a career until just now we hand down the two years. So now he's got two years. So now you're out to the end of the 24 seasons. So effectively that's three and a half seasons at 30 to 40 million. And so baseball is drawing a line at three and a half years and they're just saying, okay, I dare you. Just leaving it in the hands of the owners, right? It's like three and a half years from now, three and a half years from the fury that went

with it. And by the way, I got two daughters and no one wants to read about this kind of stuff. No, none of us do. I said, but my legal brain says, you know, it was consensual between two adults and it's truly unfortunate that it went this way. However, baseball is setting it up. Three and a half years, Which owner would like to cross the line? He clearly doesn't have a lot of comments. Which owners in baseball are conservative?

Like, you know how you know Jerry Jones is conservative? Like, you know where he stands, you know where Robert Kraft stands, you know how certain people stand? You don't know who they are. There are, so there I know some, but they don't make it public because they're quiet about it. But again, it's not it's a it a, it's a loss later. It's gonna bring it, it's not gonna help your bottom line to be can openly conservative now. Why would it not help your bottom line to be openly conservative?

Because, because of the activism, it's in the same argument we use politically. We talk about fans though, friends can show up. But it's not about the fans, it's about, it's about the people that aren't showing up. The people that are going to go and boycott your sponsors. You're talking about 10. And now look at the contracts, look at the payrolls. TV, the revenue is all coming through through video. How much of the decision of him not coming back is a manfred. How much

of the decision is the owners? I would say probably 95, 5, 95 is man-fren. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think that's how it, yeah. Hopefully. Oh, like the commissioner doesn't want him in the league. He's done. Bad PR, bad publicity.

There's no upside. Can he, can he go to Japan today and get paid a real good money? No, no, no, no, no, no, nothing to, nothing pays the way we pay. No, and I don't know, I don't know about that. I don't know if he could go to Japan no, I don't know nothing to nothing pays the way we know and I don't know I don't know about that I don't know if you could go to I don't know how Japan, but I don't know how they handle that because you don't read about this with Japanese players You don't read about this in the Korean League or any of that other stuff or Tom select played him played in a movie years ago Remember that's the baseball

Yep, and I loved it over there. I I went over there on a tour with the team we played. I was having. That was so. That's what I hear. That's what I hear from a lot of different people. Anyways, listen, for a guy who's got talent, who didn't break the law and they're taking this position, if Manfred's position was different, would the owners also take a different position on it? They might take a bit different position.

I can't see a team stepping up to do that, not in this environment. I know a lot of athletes that did a lot of things, 10 times worse, who are not good players who still played and they were forgiven two, three years later. Yep. Well, I mean, the world is forgiven Pete Rose,

even if baseball hasn't. I mean, Pete Rose bet on his team to win and lose as a player manager. It's a rough thing to replace a $35, $40 million dollar your job. There's not a lot of places you can make $30, $5, $40 million. That's your skills. Yeah. I have a quick question regarding Trevor Bauer.

Japan, you brought up stories about Latino guys. You're an American guy. Red blooded American. If you could rank the best nationalities in baseball today, I feel like there's so many Latinos. Okay, there's not a lot of black guys. Okay, there's a lot of American guys, Japanese guys. Obviously, I'm sure more Americans in MLB,

but you know, Latin players. Latin players seem to be dominating. What's the breakdown? Well, I don't know what the breakdown is, but to me that's per capita. There's, I mean, if you look at Latino population in baseball, I'm gonna guess it's somewhere in the 20% neighborhood maybe.

But I would argue that like 85 to 90% of them are above average players. Right. You don't have the, there's very few Dominican players that are 25th guy on the roster. And having been over there and played winter ball over there, you understand why. I mean, the the abduc poverty is,

I don't think people understand just how bad it is in those third world countries. And in the Dominican, I guess, I don't know what to compare it to, but baseball is your ticket out period. There's no other ticket off the island. Same with Cuba, by the way. Because I can remember Vladimir Guerrero, who swung at every pitch he ever saw in the big leagues.

And a lot of the Latin players would say, you don't walk off the island. And they come over here, the sun, the same way, very aggressive. But I mean, and then you realize the environment, they grow up in playing baseball is life from time there, six or seven, till they can't play anymore. It's literally a religion over there

and they play in some of the worst environments. They come over here, it's happening. Tom, you know what I mean? Somebody made a very interesting comment right now. They said, if Pete Rose put on a dress and used pronouns, he would be in the hall of the worst environments. Like, come over here. Tom, you're here. Somebody made a very interesting comment right now. They said, if Pete Rose put on a dress and use pronouns, he would be in the hall of the game. I really quickly, if I may, I want to go back to this Trevor Bauer thing.

I think this is a really interesting topic because this isn't the first time you've seen this, right? This is the most dramatic, but you've seen it with DeShawn Watson, Ezekiel Elliott, like all players in the NFL, they meant you were guilty until proven innocent. And I think you made a various two point that it's the people that don't buy tickets that are coming after or look at Gillette,

the title sponsor, the Home Run Derby, right? So, what are we living though? Exactly. So, do you think it's incumbent on the GMs and the owners and the robman friends of the world and the Roger Gidellas to step up and say, no, you people go kick rocks. These people, they're not guilty.

There's no criminal charges. They did a stupid thing, Trevor Bowery's probably an guilty. There's no criminal charges. They did a stupid thing, you know, Trevor Bauer, he's probably an idiot. There's no criminal charges. Go away. Like he's going to continue to play. He's going to continue to make $100 million a year. He's going to continue to pitch at the top level kick rocks. That would be the only way he gets a uniform on again, but it's not going to happen. I guess my questions are the owners and the GMs and the commissioners feeding into this nonsense. No, that's my question. So is it incumbent on them to step up and say you people are ridiculous? It depends on what you're after. Right. I mean, again, it's a $10 billion your business. They're not going to do anything that takes money away from that bottom line.

Just think about what they did last year at the All-Star game, right? It's supposed to be where? The game is supposed to be playing. Atlanta. Yeah, Atlanta and all of a sudden because they're positioned that they had they moved it out so I can't see what he's saying, but I don't know man. I mean you go, you know Michael Jordan, you know the whole thing with last dance. He says fans don't come here to watch the GM play Fans don't come here to watch the owners play. Mm-hmm fans come here to watch the players play no No one's watching the GM's play. So this guy, you know, for whatever he was, however controversial he was, you know, he was loud, he was, you know.

I don't think he deserves what he's got. Yeah. But in this day and age, everybody else does. I mean, listen, look no farther than Justice Kavanaugh. Right. Guilty and total proven innocent. Never had a chance. Didn't do anything.

I mean, it's just, it's's we're in an upside down world, man Well, Kurt let me ask you just to kind of give a devil's advocate here And I'm not this is not a Trevor Bower thing, but like you see NFL players as an example get a DUI on the weekend It's like you're making ten million dollars a year you fucking idiot. Why are you driving? We, drunk. I think like at what point does individual responsibility come into play here? I think you have to stop. Ex-stop the expectations. First of all, professional athletes, there's just as many well spousal abusers, drunk drivers, and drug addicts playing in the big leagues in the NFL, then there is working for fidelity. It doesn't that the their income doesn't change decision-making.

But shouldn't it? If someone's making $10 million a year, you should have people around you and say, save me from myself. How in the world has anybody ever been convicted of drunk driving in the last 10 years? Given the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, everything. Yeah. Crazy. Every, every personal driver's what he's talking about here. Guys that are making $40 million. That's my point. But it, it's's common sense and common sense has nothing to do with your pay with your annual pay nothing I mean it should give you an and acute awareness of like hey I've got this window well from 20 to 30 to make a hundred million dollars and

Whoever's around we need to be implementing a strategy yesterday. I don't screw it up I saw something yesterday talking about celebrities and why in the world do we think Brad Pitt's opinion on climate change is any more valid, or even remotely as valid as somebody who's actually studied it? And it's because of the world, he's put on a screen, he's made the look to be something he isn't. And he's made the talk in a way he doesn't.

And we all admit, and we think that translates. That my ability to throw a baseball and he's made the talk in a way he doesn't and we all admire we think that translates that My ability to throw a baseball had nothing to do with my opinion on the the Middle East and the conflicts in the Middle East I mean and I'm just as comfortable sitting talking about you know are insane uh uh you know fuel and energy policies as I am talking about pitching with a runner on third base, not everybody is and not everybody should. So then this takes me to a different place though. So when you have this going on with Manfred, you're saying 95% is Manfred,

5% is the owners not getting the guy back. And that's my opinion. Yeah, of course. But the power not getting a job, costing them 40 million plus per year. How about the way he handled the Astros when they won the World Series? Well, I mean, listen, they cheated in a way that was different than everything. I mean, everybody says, well, they're creative the way they cheated. Absolutely.

And having played with Alex Kora, and I love Alex. I've always loved Alex. What they did, but I gotta tell you, I've always said pictures of the smartest athletes on the field, I can't imagine saying that anymore, given the fact that if they're banging the garbage can and I'm standing on the mountain, I'm hearing it. And I'm gonna put together the fact that I just threw a nasty

split and some guy didn't chase it in a one-two count over and over and over again. And I remember the White Talks did it when they moved into their new stadium before this last one. They had lights on the scoreboard and the bottom right and bottom left. Bottom right was breaking ball, bottom left was fastball.

And I saw that like the first series we were in there. And Jack McGal talked about it a couple of years back. Like he said, we were doing it for 10, 15 years. We were cheating. Like, you know, and then you have spygate in the NFL with the patent. It's a flake case. It's not a game.

It's a $10 billion your business people are gonna, if life hasn't showed us anything, it's that human beings will do whatever it takes. Like it's Armstrong to win. Because whatever it takes. Lands arms strong to win. Because the thought and baseball especially, you saw guys still getting $50, $60, $80, $100 million contracts after being caught cheating with PEDs.

And so, I mean. So you're not saying it's okay, you're saying it's what's gonna happen because it's a $10 billion business. That's what you're saying. Absolutely. Okay, got it. So you're not surprised at happened. No, no, no.

How should have manfred handled it? Because the way he was handled, he was a very, you know, I'm not sure there were a lot of options in the sense, what do you do? Take away the title and give it to the Dodgers. You do not put an asterisk next to it. Remember that one player from Milwaukee Brewers got the MVP and they were supposed to be camp on all that stuff. And destroyed the life of an innocent FedEx driver.

Right. Well, and that, you know, that gets back, that's a whole different discussion. The guys that have done that, I mean, look at bonds, did it with people, climbers did it with his trainer, people have like sacrificed other people's lives to keep a lie going.

And then you had, I can't remember the picture from Houston who left after it and said he was ashamed and, you know, he told everybody it's exactly what was happening and all the things. Well, Springer said the following. He said, I feel horrible for our sport, our game. You know, our fans, our city, our organization, just fans in general, Springer said, I regret everything. Yeah. And I go back to Sheila's Joe Jackson, who people still say was not part of that whole thing. I don't think all the guys were in it on it and clearly weren't was the nineteen twenty nine white socks was that they threw the world series

in here's never a part of the whole thing apparently but but he very carefully hit four hundred right matter apparently i don't know what what the what's the death penalty right taking the world series away uh... suspending them from the postseason i don't know what the what's the death penalty right taking the world series away suspending them from the postseason. I don't know you're talking about a multi billion dollar and you can't take a draft picks away. You can't take yeah you can and I think they did take two picks from them and the draft or something like that which is that's correct there. They had draft picks and then they gave up their general manager. But think about it.

But think about what do they do in college football though? In college football, you can't go to a bowl. You can't win the championship. Well, no, but you can't do that for a professional sports franchise. Why? Because the first of all, let's be very clear about winning the World Series. It's a multi-billion dollar like, boom. When you think about the finances involved,

it's incredible how much money they make. Somebody's got to go to Disney. Right, but you're not talking about Alabama or Nebraska or Oklahoma State, where the school just marches on. Baseball and the postseason is everything to play for. If you have no fans would show up the next year. You would put the team in a position to possibly go bankrupt

unless the rest of the league is going to support them financially, which they're not. So I mean, you're really limited in how far you can go. And I think that's part of the reason why people push the sides. Did you see, again, for me, I understand the position you're taking with them. When it comes down to how you handled the Astros and how you handle Trevor Bauer, there's a lack of consistency of what's getting punishment. So cheating is not punished, but the way I live my personal life is. But isn't that what we're dealing with in support?

Actually, we're dealing with that in every bastard of life right now, the inconsistency with which we apply the law. My bedroom is officially your business. Right, right. No, I listen. I know it's not. The government and ruling forces don't belong in the church, the bedroom or the school. I this became this, but this wasn't about the bedroom. This was about a man beating a woman. It in that's what we were led to. That's what the media framed this as. Right. Because it wasn't. This was about two adult typingensual sex more than once.

And all of the evidence I saw supported Trevor's claims that nothing outside of what she was expecting happened happened. And she's a be back customer. You know, when you go to a restaurant, you don't like the food. You don't come back. She came back and told me, let's go back. Let's take it to the extreme. You know, a man rapes a woman.

The woman doesn't look the man back up for a second visit. We were being, this was being posited as, as he abused this woman and, and, and, it, nothing of the story was the actual story. But the framework, the media put around this, to me was criminal. And it's, again, I, I, I will be stunned if he ever puts a uniform on the big leagues again.

Pat, back to this cheating concept. This is kind of reminiscent of the conversation we have with Andrew Tate. You remember what he said from I was a guy, Andrew Tate, kind of everywhere these days. And he talked about cheating at all costs, right? We're talking about athletes, competitive edge, how can you get a competitive advantage? You know, what you're willing to do to cheat, and he gave an example of, if you had a pickup basketball game, you had five people in one team, five people in another team,

and no referees and said, all right, the winner gets 10 grand. How much cheating do you think would happen to win 10 grand, like a pickup basketball game? Now extrapolate that to politics, to $10 billion industries. You don't think a little bit of cheating is gonna go on for money and power.

Of course. Right. And that's why we're seeing what we're seeing and we're being influenced the way we are. What is that right there? So 2019 players pull them out into $80 million. The World Series Champions Nationals received $29 million of that grand total

while the American League Champion Estras received $19 million. The Nationals voted to award 61 full shares, which amounted to $82,000. That's just players pool. That's not merged. That's not one of the greatest people coming in. That's not people buying tickets. That's not. Oh, yeah. You could make the greatest two-hour television show in history if you could video the shares meeting So the shares meeting is basically where you're only in the shares meeting if you're on the roster the entire year And basically you get in a room and you get the you get the figure out who gets the cut of the 29 million and how gets portioned out So for me, it's all about the clubhouse guy you've been in those. Oh, I've been in those meetings That's per team. Per team. So let's just say there's there's I think the year we won it was a couple hundred it was

350 grand or something like that and only the team that wins the world series The winning team the winning chair was 350 a player a person. I'm sorry not a player because for me It was you include the traveling secretary the trainers the clubhouse, the guys that are making 50 grand a year. Get out of here. Oh, this is life changing, money for them. This is every, I mean, and that is one of the, but you'll have players and I had players in shares meetings making, you know,

the equivalent of $30 million a year now, stand up and say, I don't know, we're not giving that guy a share. Like, wait, what? Why the hell would you care? Because your share is gonna go from 350 to 346. Why would you care if we give the end? Again, you're talking about life changing money.

What happens to the dynamics of how players view players and the player that's making all the money makes a comment like that? How do you view it? Doesn't that hurt the locker room? It was always the, and not always. The biggest, the wealthiest guys on the team would be the ones bitching the moment about the little guys getting money. It was not always, The biggest, the wealthiest guys on the team would be the ones bitching them on

and about the little guy's getting money. It was not always, but it was, those were the guys that would stand them, go, so weird to me. Oh, it was, Why is that? What was their mindset? Again, human nature.

I deserve because it's kind of like, it's because of me, we're winning it. I should be getting the most barbed in. It's so awkward, which comfortable. Which, you're saying that like the guy that carries the bags that makes 40, 50 grand a year, when the team wins the world series,

he's eligible for 200, 50 grand. Anybody on the list you want? How many people are generally on the list? So it's again, the only guys in the meeting are the guys that are on the roster the entire year. So that's usually between 15 and 20 guys, because there's usually no more than that. You guys coming up and down.

So let's say, let's say 15. So you then the employees, right. You put in all the clubhouse guys, which might be between five and 10 guys, the trainers, the assistant trainers, another four or five guys, the traveling secretary and anybody. Awesome. Oh, and the coach is in the coaches all get a full share. And so, but again, you're talking about, and you think about those Yankee teams that were winning year after year after year, those clubhouse guys were making bank. And most of the teams I played on, we were always pretty good to those guys. I think, you know, I would

tip my traveling secretary 20, 25,000 a year because he was my wife away from home. He took care of all my travel and all my, you know, on the, when I was bitching at three in the morning about something, I bitched in him. So I made sure at the end of the year, I took care of those guys all, I spent in the club else guys. Those guys, they're washing my underwear, you know, they're doing the, and, and, you know, they are always an incredibly like, very tight knit part of the fam. That would be the greatest book in history.

Ball four by Jim Bowden would be a comic book if a clubhouse guy ever wrote a book those guys know everything about every what our clubhouse guys exactly they're doing laundry they're carrying bags yeah get your house guy who handles all the equipment in the locker room and all of the amenities in the locker room the bathroom he's like a almost he's like a you know the guy that is in a bathroom in a fancy restaurant or a fancy anything times 10 for 25 guys 25 spoiled millionaires. He's got a group of four to five guys who wash all your clothes

They'll run every errand a player has go grab me this do this do this and I you know So I would pick one every year and I'd have one guy lean on all year And I would tip him excruciatingly large at the end of the year because I knew I made his life hell for five months. But they, if they're good at it, those guys on the road, that's where the guys make, on the road, you typically tip clubhouse guys anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars a day. And I would pick a guy out and each clubhouse in each city, that would be my guy. I need, and I, you know, I wasn't a high meanist player by any stretch, but if I needed something I'd ask them.

And then you, those guys make, can make you. By the way, I love this. I love this aspect of what happens, the whole, everybody wins, even the guys that are going above and beyond they participate in the victory. That's because there's such a crucial part of it. Of course, you can. It's like supply and logistics, you know, at the end of of of campaign yeah the soldiers getting the medals were the guys on the front lines but the guys in supply and logistics made life

possible for everybody yeah these are the same very much the same way that makes sense that makes sense to see that happen by the way I had Tom did you know about this or no yeah it is a matter of fact this is also an opportunity where players don't need to half a year, because remember, it takes five years to get a big contract. And I'm going to be on the 350, 375, 410, big year. Oh, I can arbitrary, right? It all goes like that.

And so change now with the minimum salary going through the roof. True. And the new rules that don't allow the teams to play games with the 24 hour disabled. We're talking about $350,000 shares at a time when minimum salary was $40,50 grand. It's $1.8 million. That's a big number. That's right. And so actually that share goes that.

So if you go to postseason, you get postseason check. Yeah, but I think the point you were trying to make the reason why you show this is to say, listen, they pay so much. That's why the guys cheat. I don't think the guys from the Astros were doing this because they wanted 350,000 auto check. And I don't think the employees were doing it because they wanted 350,000 auto check. I think they just wanted they knew a world series means. You know, you gonna get a bit of contract rate. I love the idea for documentary of it because there's

also players that are in there. So let's say I'm a third year player and I'm really good pitcher and I was eight and three. But then I got chip in my elbow and I was off the roster for the second half of the year. I'm on the 40 man IR effectively. And they can vote and they say, you know what? That that else worth guy first half of the season, eight and three. He's responsible for part of this. He gets a share. Yeah. Or I have a share. Basically you vote in quarters quarter half three quarters full for the most part And so you know what you do is you'd start out by eliminating the big list You'd say anybody that was on the roster that wasn't a full member gets at least a quarter share and then you might have through like in

04 Jacobi L or in And oh seven Jacobi L's Barry came up and played like the last two months of the season Which you know generally be a third of a share or quarter of a share But he was literally almost the MVP of the postseason. So he got a full share. And for a guy that coming out of college that's made it. Who votes that, the people that are in their vote for? Just the players that were on the roster.

Those are the only people who get the vote. Who get to vote? Right. Nobody else is in the vote. And how is the vote structured? What is it like? Majority. Okay, that's cool. Right, that's cool.

But there are some teams that will do like a secret ballot. So nobody finds out who it is. No, but we always made, I, we, everyone I was in, it was like raise your hand. Right, right. But there are some teams that will do like a secret ballot. So nobody finds out who it is. But we always made, we, everyone I was in it was like raise your hand. I like that. Yeah, I like that because I think there's a form of oppression. Well, it's accountability. Yeah, I, it never be almost fist fights. I bet.

Oh, yeah. This is very, this is very serious here. It's more of a fist fight because they wanted more money or they were defending someone who deserved it. That. So, so, so, so, defending the deserved of course. I mean, this is life change and money. It's not life change and money for the guy that's the superstar.

So, we were just talking about how manfrid is handling, baseball and all this stuff. If there's one sport that hadn't gone woke and it was like heightened the corner and nobody, nobody was bothering it was NHL and then we heard what happened this week with the NHL. Yeah. Hey, you guys are not, you know, diverse enough and you saw this case here, the NHL and then we heard what happened this week with the NHL? Yeah, hey you guys are not you know Diverse enough and you saw this case you the NHL's first internal demographic study found its workforce to be overwhelmingly white Tim Davis and HL EVP of social impact Growth and legislative affairs says seeing the number is a first step towards fixing a problem. What are your thoughts on this? I it's torsht

I mean, listen, this is why the country is where it is. When you're, when you're qualifications and criteria to get a job are based on your skin color and your religion, you're not picking the best people. Well, look at the vice president of the United States. There's not a bigger box of rocks in existence than this woman. And, and she is affirmative action live.

She's never done anything that you would look at and say, well, that merits her being someone in a position of prominence and power in this country, because she clearly understands what's going on. She doesn't have a grasp of anything. When you have, I'll never forget this. I don't know if you ever saw this, but when WikiLeaks came out and all of the emails from the Clinton campaign were revealed. I read through tons of them, and there was a document, and Podesta was on it, but it was a document listing a bunch of cabinet positions

and sub-c cabinet positions. And they had the position, and the candidates listed were what we need. We need a black or Latino. We need a homosexual in this one. We need an Asian man in this position. And none of them had anything to do with qualifications of the position.

And you're starting to see that permeate in the real world. People are getting hired and promoted and are doing things based on anything, but their job qualifications. And that's what I, my argument for as a conservative has always been, I don't care what color you are. I don't care who you sleep, but then I don't care who you pray to. Are you a law abiding legal American citizen of any color race who can

achieve at the job I need you to achieve to? If you go back and look at Trump's four years and you look at the fact that liberals would like to tell you, look, he hired and fired so many people. Well, I think a lot of that having gone Mr. Trump, President Trump since 2006, he's a pragmatist. He's a problem solver, right? And I think what he thought was a lot of that having no Mr. Trump, President Trump since 2006, he's a pragmatist, he's a problem solver, right? And I think what he thought was a lot of people in the private sector, their success was gonna translate

into government and it didn't. So when they came in and he saw that they weren't doing the job, he said, okay, you're fired. And he moved some, and everybody else saw that as instability and unstable. And I saw that as I need to find the right person for the job, man, woman doesn't matter. And then you have other administrations who hire and never fire anybody. And that tells me that we're living their mistakes because not everybody's right for the job.

Meaning it was like a favor when they hired someone. I owed you a favor. I hired you or Trump didn't have a favor. You helped get me elected. I promise you a position on the board. I got to get you. Yeah. Here it is.

Doesn't mean you're the best person for the job. But go ahead. I mean, Pete Buttigieg. Really? That's your guy. you're the best person for the job. But go ahead. I mean Pete Buttigieg Really? That's your guy. Hey, that guy fixed potholes in India. I mean seriously you look at some of these people and the challenges It's gotten so ridiculous that we joke about it now. Did you hear about the bill back better the money that You know one the most Biting calls it one the most incredible You know what do you want to call it?

Infrastructure bill and the history of the fine day. And they just incredible. They just spend the first, they just spend the first, they just spend the first 20 million. You know what it is? Did you, did you see this thing? The first 20 million that was spent to, uh, to make tie with the sidewalks of the city. And they went and interviewed this, uh the people in the city that said, you know, you're getting the first 20 million,

what are we doing with that 20 million? We're gonna heat your sidewalks so the ice can melt. Citizens of that city's like, what are you talking about? I get a wrong place to spend a 20 million dollars on. Well, they're trying to block out the sun now too. Have you seen that? They have plans, they're trying to actually block it out. You know, sports on the field is the ultimate meritocracy.

The fans don't care. Back in 2004, Calgary Flames made it to the finals and lost to Tampa. And it's when the entire NHL kind of flipped out because of retirement community had a Stanley Cup. And Roma Ginnlow was on that team. And he was beloved. You know, you would see up in Calgary, it was up there.

He was absolutely beloved. He was an African-American on the ice. It was, can you skate, can you see up in Calgary, he was up there, he was absolutely beloved, he was an African-American on the ice, it was, can you skate, can you shoot, or you're valuable to the team? And I think when you look at the NHL, Gary is the worst commissioner in professional sports, which is really hard to do, because there's a lot of competition

to be the worst commissioner. Yeah, I would argue that. Okay. And you sit back and say, is it a good thing to raise awareness so that we make sure that everyone has an opportunity for front office jobs and everything? Yes, it is.

But to the fans, the fans, it's a meritocracy on the court. It's a meritocracy on the ice. Talking about the government spending thing, one of the things that, and I get, I don't want to say physically, but it's, it's borderline. I'll get acid reflux at the discussion. There's 32,000 homeless veterans in this country. Every single night, there should not be a dollar of our government's money exiting the borders of this country

or being spent for anything until they have a roof over their heads. And I say that because you were mentioning that 20 million, I just saw something, we're sending something like 20, 200 million, 20 million to South America to help transgender activities in the community of South America. Trans, like dancers. And I mean, the stuff that we're seeing in the United States with these kids being put in front of transgender,

these, the cross-dressing dancers and all the things that are going and it's like it doesn't seem real to me. We're arguing about things that to me are there not there's no logic to the argument but the left is winning because we're having the argument to begin with. Why are we arguing about who can vote in our election? How is that an argument? Can I go to Germany and vote in their election or Mexico? No. Why are people allowed to come here and vote if they don't, if they're not citizens? Why is it? And then secondly, why are we even arguing

it? But that's the win, right? We're discussing something we shouldn't even be discussing. That's like me coming in your house and telling you how you should paint the wall in the living room. It's, it's, and I don't even live in your house. There's no lot. But again, why are we arguing things that aren't, just they're not even logical. Yeah. Why are we arguing about what bathroom, a man or a woman should be able to use? How is that a logical argument?

I agree with you there. Can I make just one point, just kind of a, just to throw my, you know, counterpoint, 100% with you on the like the woke stuff. It's obviously getting very annoying. And we're, you know, I think Democrats are gonna pay the. It's obviously getting very knowing and we're going to, you know, I think Democrats are going to pay the price in the midterms. We're about to see in less than a month, three weeks. But you use Kamala as an example. Okay. So

what part of it is optics, marketing, meaning she wasn't, they didn't, I mean, in all fairness curve, they didn't pick her up on the side of a highway. She was a senator. She was reelected Senator, a California, correct. But some of it is optics, meaning he said, it's all optics. Correct. So hear me out. You know, he said, I want a black female to be my VP.

He could have been her, it could have been Stacey Abrams. They think it was cerebral. It could have been Condoleesa Rice, it could have been Susan Rice, who arguably would have been better candidates. But at the same time, I mean, Trump did something similar. Now, here we go.

He said, all right, who's gonna be my VP? Well, I'm going for optics here. Who's gonna help me get votes? It could have been Chris Christie, not two New Jersey guy in New York, a little much. All right, I kinda wanna get the Christian evangelical vote. Hmm, who represents that? Well, you got this person, you got this person.

This guy, Mike Pence could be something. So, and I think Mike Pence was very deserved of the job, but ultimately my point is he was solving for something. Right. He was solving for optics agenda votes. I don't look at those as similarly aligned interests in the sense that I'm looking to hire a black woman or I'm looking to hire somebody that will bring me a voting block. That black woman didn't necessarily bring you a voting block. They would say that she did. But she got women to vote.

But to see that's the bigotry of low expectations of the left. The left believe that black people are too stupid to get their own ID, to get their own driver's license. They're too stupid to get on the internet. So if they're too stupid to do on the internet. So if they're too stupid to do anything, they'll vote for us just because we put a black woman in an office and the black people, I know they're not that stupid at all. And I'm close. In fact, they get offended when you ask them questions like that. But the bigotry of low expectations from the left drives a lot of their decision making and saying, well, listen, if we put a Jewish guy here, then we'll get the Jewish

vote. And if we put a black woman here, we'll get the black vote. And someone just say that's just playing politics. So, I mean, the Pence, as an example, we're gonna get the Christian vote, which is a Chris Christie. The debate for me is now is people talk, and every second I don't get a block number that gets through, I get a help us raise money

for this campaign. We're all getting that by the way. It's election season. I'm getting that left and right. I continually think to myself, I don't know in my lifetime, and I don't know anybody that does, I've never seen a commercial that's made me vote for somebody.

I've never seen a commercial that said, you know what, I'm gonna go vote for that person. But they would have you, I believe that whatever side raises the most money is gonna win the election. Which basically is them saying, you're too stupid to think for yourself. So we're gonna buy your vote with this.

Well, most people already, before they walk into the voting booth, no other voting for you. Do you know anybody in the last 20 years that's walked into a voting booth? Unsure. Do you? I'm there right now. But I don't know where I'm going these days. No, that's not true.

I swear. You know who you will never vote for. No, I've just, I know. No, no, listen, I think all three of you know who you will never vote for. No, I've just, I know. No, no, no. Listen, I think all three of you know who you're walking into. The second you walk into a voting room, I'm very convinced of that. I was also that person these days, I'm very unsure. I'm an independent system, but I think yes, more than a time, it's like, you know who you're not voting. Wow. I'm not a Trump fan. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to reverse course all of

a sudden. But what I'm saying to you is that is a position, though, you know who you're not voting. Wow. I'm not a Trump fan. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to reverse course all of a sudden. But what I'm saying to you is that is a position, though, you know who you're not voting for. Trump. He would not. I'm not a Trump fan. Wow. That's that. What would it take for you to vote for Biden? What would it take? I've got about this. Listen, how about this? You're me. We're at a place. One's the last time you voted for a Democrat. Clinton. Okay. So it's been 30 years now. And I saw this the other day. And it's I think it's absolutely essential to where we are.'s I think it's absolutely essential To where we are and I think it's going forward We're at a point of no return and I say that because you when I was growing up

And I was not very political when I was growing up But you had people left a center right a center and you had center and all the things the Democrats and Republicans of our child are gone But we're at a point in time where there's no going back and there is no peace because both sides See each other as inherently evil. Right. And I tend to believe as a patriotic flag waving American and all of the, and again, I've known President Trump since 2006, all the things you can say about him, you can say about him, but the fact of matter, this country in every metric possible was better

under his presidency, except for the fact that the left was angry, bitter and hateful. The economy, minority employment, female employment, the stock, every by every measure, metric that we measure that we have in the past measured presidents by, we were better. And by every measure, those same metrics in the last two, we're far, far worse. And the fact that we're having a conversation around who you would vote for that blows me away that blows me away to think that an educated person would ever consider allowing democrats to be in power again for the rest of our lives as long as people live i've watched i mean you we've all watched it for two

years that this the destruction there that they've brought on the foundational principles of this country. And listen, you can say all you want this country, this country is found on Judeo-Christian principles. It just was. You don't have to agree with it. You can want it to go in a different way, but that's the way it is.

And the fact that we're having these discussions now about who, who, I've been alive for two, I've watched it for two years. I've seen it happen for two years. I've seen it happen for two years. I've seen the moral decay. Listen, I grew up at my dinner table, right? When I did something wrong, I slapped on the back of the head. I grew up at a dinner table.

But the farther from the dinner table in the Bible, this country's gotten, the farther down the toilet it's gotten. And it's just been sad to watch. How do we get here? In your opinion, how do we get here? Apathy. For gosh, 30 or 40 years we had 40 50 percent voter turnout We we let them get where they are and I think there's a certain level of corruption in the process

That has gotten people in to office because you can't convince me that the majority of people in maxing waters district or AOC's district or Nancy Polo or Eric Schiff, these people are the dumbest of the dumb. There's just, I mean, listen, we know that there is a massive amount of election fraud in the last election. How much? I don't know that we'll ever find out, but we know because we've seen the evidence. And I was up at three in the morning when the vote total for Biden changed by two million

and Trump didn't move an inch. And I was like, wait a minute, what just happened? But you say something like that now and you're a conspiracy theorist. God, my God, I don't know how many years ago, I mentioned something, I didn't know what Q was. And I somehow, somebody sent me a Twitter link or something. And I wrote down, this is actually kind of interesting.

I want to follow this and find out what it is. Why became a cue disciple from that point on? It doesn't matter what I've ever said, or what I actually said. But what do you mean? You, someone labeled you a cue disciple? No, I've been a cue-an-on person since then. And my, like everything else,

my mom taught me how to speed read when I was young. I have 15 or 20 books sitting by my bed, so I read everything about everything that I can find out. And I like to find out about stuff. And so I'm curious about it. And it come to find out that everything they've ever said was gonna happen, never happened. And it's pretty much a group of people

that are all bought in on conspiracy stuff that isn't happening and hasn't happened. And none of them has ever come to fruition. So you're calling out Q right now. Well, but no, but my point is, those niches exist everywhere. in every sort of conspiracy theory. And, but, but here's the thing. They're not all conspiracies. The key, the trouble is finding out, figure out which ones are right or real and are not. And, and, you know, it's, I think in a lot of ways, if you, the internet

has proven to be incredibly valuable and unbelievably dangerous at the same time because of, you know, the, I don't know, want to say power, but, you know, being able to find out and look and research and understand the world going on around you in a much larger way now than we ever could. That's where I get back to, how could anybody, if Trump runs against whoever, next election, how can anybody not vote for him? Any logical, adult, rational, educated person, not, not a good public speaker, not a funny guy by any street, not more than a funny, someone who's not funny that thinks they are. But he delivered on literally every campaign promise he made. And you, you cannot like him, he's easy not to like,

I like him, again, I've known him for a while and I know the personal side, I know the guys got a heart, an enormous heart. And that's my phone again, sorry about that. But the fact of the matter is, you know, where we're at now, after two years of this, but I think there's such a yearning in this country for something new, something fresh.

We've seen the Trump show. Well, we've seen the Trump show. But hold on a second. We've also seen the Biden show. Neither of them are what the country wants. Well, but again, from Max Capacit. Yeah, but we asked for it. Remember what the big cry was during the Trump run up

to the election? We want someone who isn't the establishment. We want someone who isn't a politician. That's what it looks like. An outsider to drain the swamp. That's what it looks like. It's a guy who isn't right. No, everybody, the left wanted to take the people down.

But the left wanted Bernie. You're a investment. This is what it looks like when a guy who isn't bought by anybody, isn't owned by anybody, and is a business problem solver. Does he have, I love the people that call him, he's filed for bankruptcy. I said over 500 business transactions.

He's filed for bankruptcy 12 times. I'll take that batting average. I mean, but the hatred is so deep and so deranged that it makes people, I think, do illogical things. Do you think that hatred, obviously coming from the left and a lot of it, some from the traditional Rhino Republicans as well? Yeah, yeah.

Right, I mean, that exists. Do you think that's going anywhere anytime soon? No. Oh, God, no, all right. No, it's just growing. Right. No, it's, right. I mean that that exists. Right. Do you think that's going anywhere anytime? So no, oh god, all right. No, it's just growing right no it yeah, so so my so my question is are you ready to double down on that knowing or is it time to maybe Annoying the new candidate there is a Santa's type of person. Nobody'd be anointed because the game is Foment the anger against the opponent right so it doesn't matter whether it's Trump or this person or Biden or this person. You're gonna see this massive game unfold to foment as much controversy and anger in the other side.

That is the reality of our elections. By the way, Tom, you're not wrong. You're absolutely right. But amplify that times 10 when Trump's name is in the mix. It's the, it's the way it's in the mix. Maybe in one neighborhood, and in the other neighborhood amplify it times 10 when Trump's name is in the mix. You're obviously going to make that politics. Maybe in one neighborhood, and in the other neighborhood, amplify it times 10 when Biden's name is, that's my point, but nobody's got more.

It's got one sided. Nobody gets more hate than Trump. Nobody. Nine close, nine close. No, Obama, Biden, it's not. We are at a point where both sides see the other side is inherently evil, and there's no middle ground anymore.

And that's dangerous because there's nobody out there that's looking to put that bridge over troubled water. And do you think Trump's going to be that guy? No, no. All right, so the country will be, again, it'll go in my opinion, the Trump, the things that people matter, like your income, the price of gas, your 401k, all the things that matter to everyday Americans gets better. Otherwise it doesn't. To most people today that are alive today, right, this is pure history, this is like ancient history.

But there was a time when President Reagan once a week had lunch at the White House with Tip O'Neill. Yep, yeah. And we had to, we had to figure the house. For those that don't know. Correct. And we had a degree of civility between the two sides, even though Tip was very much about welfare very much, actually he was more about Social Security, Medicare,

and increasing benefits to make it a permanent retirement. Reagan was like, I think you have to moderate that. And there were things that they disagreed, but they were both civilly at the table. And we've lost that. Oh well, that's well that's never coming back but that didn't start with trump just divisiveness you might argue that no no curts you might argue the country was already doing no come on here i didn't make my point to be more racially divided

during president bomb as president yet but it started before obama always been that where did it really start a lot of people say that it happened during Clinton and Newt Gingrich. Okay. Where he went when he went. No Yeah, I mean the whole the whole impeachment over a freaking blowjob. Nurt went, Nurt went full nuclear on this guy. I do find it funny that the people that were scawking and laughing and getting all perturbed about the fact we were upset over Clinton getting a blowjob on the White House or the ones that want the moral compass with Trump. I think that is funny.

But the fact of matter is, in my mind, the biggest opportunity this country lost was when we elected a black president, and instead of being the guy who bridged the gap, he widened the gap in ways that I never, ever expected. His hatred or his outward disdain for law enforcement was very open and very public using statistics that were absolutely not true. His stuff about the climate change and the 97%, which is one of the biggest fallacies ever, all of those things he perpetuated,

and he could have just said, you know what, this is a time to heal. But I agree with you to a certain extent, but like I'm not a big ol' bummer guy. The last Democrat that I truly, truly, truly loved, I was a Clinton guy, I grew up, like my'm not a big Obama guy. The last Democrat that I truly, truly, truly loved was a Clinton guy. It grew up like my dad was a big Clinton guy. But some of the divisiveness wasn't his fault. There was people that generally hated the fact that there was a black Democrat in office. It's never the president's fault. The president has the chance to amplify someone

else's message. And unless he's openly saying race war, which was never the case, right? I mean, saying race war, which was never the case, right? I mean, these, it's, it's, but President Obama had opportunities, multiple opportunities, I think. I think every president has multiple opportunities, but I think he went so far to the one side that we've never seen before, anti-police. I mean, he was very anti-police, which, that's your president. Like, you know, if you want to say that Trump steering the nation and their opinion on certain things, you can't deny the fact that Obama did that very thing in ways that were self-destructive.

Yeah, it's interesting because Obama seems like a very rational, logical actor, but especially when like the Trayvon Martin things happens and he used things, used words like that could have been my son, that could have been me. Obviously he was acting emotionally in those instances, right? And even what was the situation in Dallas where police officers were shot? Five police officers murdered. Right. And then at the funeral he stood there

and talked about the inherent racism within the police department law. Right, so it's like an emotional actor on that. Well, but again, that's not your job as a pretty United States is the exact opposite of those things. So then the question comes a follow-on though By the way Kurt moving forward we don't like election deniers on the podcast Specifically this if you can please show this a tweet if we if we can go to this I don't like this kind of stuff being set on the podcast Nancy Pelosi tweeted this back in May 2016

2017 and it's still on there just so folks want to find that our election was hijacked. There's no question Congress has a duty to protect our democracy and follow the fact. So let's please not do that again, Kurt. Please follow those lines. Well played. The other piece that makes me understand

that hypocrisy is just mind boggling. But you know what I was gonna ask? Here's what I was gonna ask. Okay, so what's the solution? What's the solution? So is the solution? letting bad ideas go so far out that it gets so exposed that finally You know JFK Democrats and Republicans conservative say let's see man Dude, I got a lot more common with you than I do with these other I know what the hell is going on over here

Do we let it to get that bad? Is that what we have no other choice to is the other option which you got Adam Kinzinger, you know Comes out a couple days ago says misty-eyed Adam Kinzinger says conservatives will be the first to die in a civil war So is the second option? You know we go through some like this where in a response to comment about Republican on Twitter, Adam Kinzigar openly fantasized about a country being driven towards civil war and suggested that anti-war conservatives will be the first to die Kinzigar made the comments and response to a user who went on a mile rant about Republicans not supporting the war effort in Ukraine Referring to them as fascists and labeling them as the GQP party True rewards have never been spoken,

Kinsinger applied. Spoiled people who have never seen war like to play dress up, if there is a civil war, they will be the first to pass away because Walgreens will run out of heart medicine, right? So he makes comments like this. So option number one, let bad ideas play out and everyone's gonna unite.

Number two, civil war, number three, you know, unify, bring everybody together on one side, together to sit down and talk. Number four, do what musk and some others are talking about hey, just vote Republican. What is the solution? Number three, bringing everybody together, that's, I think we're way past the option.

I don't think that's gonna happen. I don't think there's anybody out there that can happen. I don't, I think we're living number one. Letting these ideas get so rotten that the Bill Mars with the world go, wait a minute, I'm not on the left anymore because that's idiocy. And Joe Rogan who was who was very far left and and and his understanding that the right actually isn't what the left would have you believe it is.

The civil war thing for me is one thing I've learned growing up as a military brat and being around the military is the last people in the world who want conflict are the ones who have seen it. They understand the price and having been and seen an active war zone and seen what it looks like and what it does, I would certainly never want it. But I'm also not even remotely uncomfortable at the thought of standing up to defend and fight for my country physically if that's what it meant.

I don't, again, I think both sides are so far apart and see each other as such bad people that there is no bridging the gap. My question has been for 10 years, former military and military and law enforcement. And having kind of spread myself into those circles and tried to have those people as much as I can in my life, I asked the same question. I'm going to look to you if the rubber meets the road.

I'm starting to see videos of ATF agents and FBI agents knocking on the doors of law-abiding Americans, asking them if they possess a certain item that they bought legally. And if they did so, would they turn it over? I never thought that was even remotely something that would ever happen. And my question is to law enforcement, what are you going to do? Are you going to enforce the law?

You know to be an order that you know to be unconstitutional, because the oath you took was foreign and domestic, right? And he's foreign and domestic. What does a domestic enemy look like? Because my argument is it looks sort of like what we're seeing. It looks sort of like people who are locking the country down for two years over what we now know

was a nervous power play and was a bunch of bullshit. And we were being lied to about the vaccine and all the other things around that. And we were finding out that all the, the quote unquote, deaths were those with comorbidities and 90% of those people were elderly and overweight and had all the things that people die from the flu from. All of the, like, that's the thing is I get the feeling that the liberals that I see and

the Democrats I see truly hate. Well, I mean, the president came out and talked about fighting mag-americans, right? If you're gonna fight the government, we have nuclear weapons and F-16s. I mean, open, I've never heard to think that a president would even other that, much less say that a press conference is mind-boggling to me.

I think there's a combination of all of those things that you're having. Like I said, I think we're living number one. I think we're letting bad ideas play out. Yeah, and I think we feel like we have to. I think we feel like we're powerful. And I'll say this, Jim Jordan, I'm so tired

and I'm a fan, I'm so tired of seeing him complain on Twitter. And I've written to him a couple of times saying, just shut up, you got elected to fix it. Stop complaining on Twitter and do something about it because you sound like a voter. You sound like me, I'm complaining to you. And you're who you if you can't do anything, then resign and put somebody in the office that has the guts to do something because I'm tired of hearing them come Rand Paul and all of them. Again, the same thing. Committee after committee

after committee. No one ever actually does anything. What can they do? I don't know, but I know I'm powerless unless I take up arms against an insidient government, which I'm not gonna do. Yeah. What, I can't do anything. I have, don't we elect these people to steer the country? And by steer, I mean, hold on to the wheel and move us in a direction.

What, if we know people are breaking the law, which we know, we know the last Democratic party and the last administration that was Democrat, weaponized the DOJ. I mean, that much we know, Komi and all the things that went with that. I mean, we watch Komi, James Komi stand up in front of the mic and talk about Clinton's crimes and say, you know, we're not in the prosecute. And now we, I mean, I follow along some of the Giuliani stuff, the stuff that's been done to him since Trump has been in my,

in many facets that I've read, unconstitutional and against law. Again, law enforcement, they just knocking on American stores, asking to have items that were legally purchased to turn that in and then being told in a person saying, do you have a warrant? No, I don't have a warrant, but you don't need to be a jerk about it. You know, you can just give me the item and I will go away. And he's like, no,

I'm not doing that. And he's like, well, we'll probably see again down the road. Like, they're threatening us. That's the gub, that's that's Russia. That's Eastern Europe. That's fascism at its core. And it's's happening live and the internet's allowing us to see it That's the even worst part. We're still doing that about it Tom, how do you process it? What do you think's gonna happen with this? Is it playing it out? Is it playing it out? Is it let a play out? Is it number two? You know a Civil war's gonna happen a Republicans gonna get elected is it? play out is a number two, you know, a civil war is going to happen, a Republican is going to get elected, is it, what are you think is going to happen?

Unifying forces in the history of America have always been very violent, and it's very sad. 9-11 was a unifying force, a tremendous unifying force. We didn't care what color you were, we didn't care anything about it, we were just all. We were hurting. We were just all. We were hurting. We were pro us. We were pro us. And we saw us getting together.

Those, was it nine days later? And the NFL was this healing moment on Sunday. And we talked about praying together. We talked about unifying. We talked about helping. We talked about reaching out. Unifying forces are usually very, very violent. And the problem with the political structure is it's a power and economic structure.

It's not just a power structure. And the four words have to be weaponized, and you have to create such hatred to move these voting blocks. At least that's what they think. And you take billions and billions of dollars from people that want hundreds and hundreds of favors later. That's the way this works. And I think you need to get,

there's gotta be a unifying force, and I don't wish it on this country, I don't wish it on any person, but there's gotta be a unifying force that comes together of it. And it's usually, it's usually when people realize, we don't have it so bad,

and something really horrible has just gone down and my goodness, we do have it better than we thought we did. You guys are at the tip of the spear in a sense in this ideological war. You talk, you're job in a sense, one of the most important job is to bring people from both sides to the public and expose them in good and bad for what they are what they believe in what and when you look at the fact that our government is trying to enforce its mandate on our speech That should be I mean free speech every book book in the world in America is legal to read.

Everything you can say in the world other than causing harm to another human being is legal to say in this country. It has to be under the First Amendment. You cannot like it. You can be offended by it. But those two things have to read true. Those are no longer true here. I just saw something this morning.

I was reading them and it's blew me away. Apparently Amazon, the largest seller of books in the world, has banned an enormous stable of books based on order from the Department of Justice. That should scare the shit out of people. And you know, all the things happening to these people in the FBI showing up or investigating someone from the news media that is writing a story about Biden and all the thing, it's

so distant from people that are reading it. They can't translate or come to the conclusion. What if that's me? Yeah. And it started out because apparently there was an author in Russia who is one of the one of the... The Alexander Dugan. Yes. The philosophy.

Yes. And his books are prominent in every educated person's bookshelf because apparently I've never read anything he's written. But this gentleman went to look for them and Tucker Carlson had mentioned that he went to look for them and Tucker Carlson mentioned that he went to look for them and there's not one on the site, none of them on the site. So then what the left does is, well, it's, you know, when they have this, I love this argument,

it's a private company. They don't have, well, yeah, there's no first amendment issues until the government is involved in the decision-making process, which is we need you to ban these books. We want you to ban these books. Again, a book can offend you unless you read it. So, you know, and then the throwback is well, the conservatives in the South are trying to ban books. Well, it's my understanding that the books they're trying to not ban, but remove from elementary schools are basically adult pornography or whatever that might be. And I could be wrong, but this is the, I mean, we're having, again, we're having discussions that five years ago,

we would have just said, no, that'll never happen. And now we're living it. Yeah, my message is scary, my thing is, how many times is it? A kid is grow grows up in a family household that parents get at the divorce. One side of the family tells you stories about the other side of the parent. Well, you let me tell you your mom was let me tell you your dad was and the kid could believe it for five years, sometimes ten years, sometimes twenty years and in twenty years later like, why'd you say that about mom? Why'd you say that about that?

That wasn't true. You made me not like that for four years, right? Because that's what's happening. And the kid is in the middle, experienced mom and dad getting a divorce, and the kid is the one that loses 10, 20 years of his life, right? So to me, I think America is... That's for my opinion.

I forget, that's for my opinion. Let me tell you, I feel that pain. I mean, I was willing to put, and still willing to put, $5 million on the line, if Trump and Obama are willing to do a three hour podcast together to figure out a way to get people to come together and talk on what they actually agree on, because one is the voice for mega, the other one is the voice for the left.

What can we do to bring them together, right? Because more people are going to sit there and say, this kind of does make sense. America's... Maga? Especially before systemic racism. Right. President Obama believes inherent systemic racism in this country, which we know there's racism in this country.

There's always going to be racism in this country because there's a free country and you're allowed to be racist. We've marginalized those people. The clan no longer has a voice at any table that matters to anyone. They still exist. But if you had left-hide their way, they would define hate and they would be able to jail people that they deemed were hate speech. That's a perfect example is that that gets back to MAGA is seen as this ultra racist movement and President Obama believes this country is systemically racist. Those two things don't have a meat in the middle, right?

I mean, we can, listen, I am as conservative finance, fiscally conservative as anybody on the planet, like socially, I don't care. I don't care. My middle son started the LGBTQ club in high school I had kids over transitioning coming in and out of my house my whole my son's eyes Never ever mattered to me. I didn't care. We opened our home to everybody I don't care about stuff like that has nothing to do with what kind of person you are how you treat me or how I treat you But if you listen to but if you're going to if you Google me, I'm an Islamophob, I'm

a homophob, I'm a transph, all the things, that's an intentional. People intentionally are out there rowing other people. And again, just the justice cabinet hearing was an insight into who we are as a nation right now in many ways. And that was embarrassing and uncomfortable as anything I've ever seen. Well, Kurt, you know, you're talking about the system, and I'm with you, the system on both sides is screwed up, but also, you know, we're in election season,

candidates matter, like you brought up Jim Jeffries, right? Exactly, you said in O for you. Jim Jordan. Yeah, yeah. In O for you are advocating Bush, right? So, but the candidates matter, like if you look on the right, you've got situations like Oz or Herschel Walker

or some of the clowns that Borat interviewed or whatever that whole thing is, who was America? And then you have, if you go deeper down that rabbit hole in Alabama, they were putting up a guy rowing more who you talk about what some of these sexual allegations, what he was doing was freaking ridiculous. But then on the left, you've got the Maxine Waters of the World or the problem is you just said the word allegations, right? Listen, I'm not defending Roy Moore, but the point is you don't have to do anything anymore. You just have to be alleged to.

If you're alleged to, you're guilty. So Jim Jordan, Molescind wrestlers in college allegedly, but if you look at anybody on the right, they'll tell you he is. And that's where, so anybody that, and that was one of the reasons why I decided not to run for office. When I realized that families were now on the table, the media can do and say whatever they want about your family, if they, if you're cons, especially if you're conservative. And it just seemed like it's not worth the price.

Nothing's worth the price. And that's, we're at that extreme. Where, I mean, God, there's so many examples. It is honestly hard to think of just one, but in the last five or six years, think of the people that have been canceled. And we find out later, the canceling act never actually happened, a tweet that they did in high school or some stuff like that.

Yeah, what comes to mind is freaking Al Franken, right? Like this, I mean, I liked him on SNL. He was a senator from Minnesota. He freaking stepped down because he like gave a lady a hug and went to give her a kiss and whatever that fucking situation was. It's a nothing burger, but he got so caught up in that. That cancel culture has canceled some people

that started the culture itself, I mean, which is poetic justice, but nobody can survive that system. Nobody, you know, if you go back and find every tweet ever or every social media experience or you talk to somebody and went to high school with you, I'm sure you said something high school that was probably. This is why you shouldn't apologize.

Unless you truly, truly, truly, truly did something wrong, you should, hey man, that's my opinion, I'm sticking to it. And the truth of the fact, I think that's why I sleep good at night, because I made mistakes, but I know who I am. I know I've never been malicious, the only people I can't stand are bullies. And I know I've never tried to hurt people, so I'm okay with who.

Did you say that you didn't want to be going to the Hall of Fame? Like you made a statement. I said at this point, I didn't want to remove me. I wanted off the ballot. Yeah. You said that. Yeah. And what was your ration off for that? I didn't want to go through the process anymore. Every year it came up. My family was subjected, my kids especially, to social interactions that they didn't want, didn't merit, didn't deserve. You dad's a racist. Well, what did he actually do? Well, the way you defended your daughter was epic. I mean, that's when everybody had to come to your side.

Yeah. You know, give you, pay your respect on the way you back to her up because you were celebrating and then Reggie Jackson said, what? Reggie Jackson said, hey, you know, the only reason you're not in Hall of Fame is because you feel freedom of speech, bullshit, you know, whatever, something like that. He said to you, okay with that because I've never met anybody that didn't say Redgie Jackson was an asshole. So I don't care about Redgie Jackson.

Mr. Octopus, an asshole. We're in the middle of October right now. Yeah, he's, but again, I, you know, people that have, I've never, you know, I played 22 years in baseball. Never had a teammate, fan, clubhouse guy, trainer, anybody I've ever been interacted with in my lifetime has ever said I did anything or said anything racist, but I'm racist.

He said, quote unquote, freedom of speech got your ass out of Cooper's town, bro. Yeah, whatever. And again, he's an asshole, so I don't care. I mean, my dad told me early in life, don't ever live your life for the opinions of people you don't know. And it made doing what I did a lot easier in that sense. In the sense that like, again, I'm true to myself.

I'm sure I've said things that are, I know I've said things that I shouldn't have said. I know I said things I don't wanna say, or should have done, but it's never been about, I've never done anything to willfully harm somebody or hurt somebody. Could what do you do nowadays? Well, Sat, I have a, I live in Tennessee about 30 minutes south of Nashville. I have an animal rescue farm and actually my, my last

llama past away last night, Rosie, my llama past away last night. So it's kind of a tough morning. Sorry to hear. But no, but and it's, I love and my grew up in Alaska. So when you grew up in Alaska, you learned to shoot a rifle because getting eaten by a bear on the way to school is like a real thing. So you learn fire on discipline, but I also learned an insane affinity for wildlife and nature. And my dad was a big hunter. I've never been a hunter, but I understand that whole thing. But I grew up with a love of animals and I've always had one. So it was just natural for me to to gravitate that way. And I have a huge animal, not huge, but I have a rescue. Lama's goats, pigs, all of it.

And that's where I find peace and comfort a lot. And that's what you do full-time right now. I don't, so like I said, my Monday and Saturday, the exact same day, except that Sunday's football. You know, I'm retired. Are you all sports? Are you doing all sports? No, you follow all sports?

None. A hockey. My oldest son and my youngest son were both goalies, playing hockey. My youngest son played junior's. My youngest son is contemplating a military life. But I don't watch any baseball. Baseball.

You don't follow baseball. It's hard to watch. I can't, it's so hard to watch now. It's uncomfortable to watch. Like why? Well it's so hard to watch now. It's uncomfortable to watch. Like why? Well, because I was raised at a point in time, and I know this is going to sound like the old man yelling at a leaf on his lawn, but I was raised that as a starting pitcher, those nine innings were yours.

I was raised, you know, my goal wasn't wins. It was 245 innings a year because that man I went seven innings every night for 35 nights. But now I was raised by Johnny Pogra, he says, a pitching coach who was one of the greats. And I watched these guys coming out of the game after the fifth inning and they're tipping their hat. And I'm thinking to myself, you should be ashamed of yourself. I mean, there's still four innings of this. And it's not really the players fault because it's the way the business has gone.

They've really got middle relief. Well, they've been closed. So much money in these arms that these kids have to get to the big leagues of their investment, the team's investment screwed. So these kids are, I came to the big leagues. I had six or seven hundred endings in the minor leagues. I had a couple 200 ending seasons in the minor leagues. These kids are throwing 180 endings a year and making 40 million dollars a year. And it's, it's hard to watch. And so the ace has gone away. And if you think about it when I, not when I was coming up,

but probably right before this last generation, the starting pictures always provided you the hero in the villain, right? Maddox against Clements. That was that back story to a game. That no longer happens. You don't only have four or five guys, the shursers or the Kirshaws,

who oh my god, this guy's pitching, I'll buy a ticket. Those guys don't exist anymore, because JacobGrom is going to go six innings. And that's just a different game. And this influx of sabre metrics, which I, again, I buy into sabre metrics. I bought into them in 1995. I was way ahead of that curve in the sense that I didn't care about home runs and RBI's and those bullshit stats. I wanted no swing percentages.

When is the hitter gonna swing? Cause Greg Maddox said the key to pitching is the swing percentages. Well, the key to pitching is to throw a strike when the hitter's taking in a ball when he's swinging. You just have to know when those times are. Very simple idea like everything else though with the complex formula.

And so I studied and the preeminent moment in my career was I watched 20 Gwingo 5 for 5 I was pitching a Sunday game and Saturday night 20 Gwendo 5 for 5 and he was on the news afterwards and he said Yeah, I kind of knew everything was coming. I was in counts. I got comfortable I knew what he was gonna throw in those counts and I'm thinking holy shit. I have no chance of getting sky out tomorrow None he knows everything I'm gonna do and I thought oh wait a minute hitters or kind of creatures of happiness. So I started studying and realized I could break the strikes

down down into 15 quadrants, nine in the strike zone three on the corners, and hitters would swing at different, had different swing paths in those categories. So in my mind, because I couldn't understand, I watched Greg Manics throw an 88, with a 1.62 ERA. I'm throwing 95 and I'm getting my ass handed to me and I'm like this doesn't make any sense

and it was all about fastball command so I said listen I'm gonna find the blue areas which are the cold areas for I'm gonna find the blue areas on every hitter and I can throw my fastball there so that the what I did was I developed fastball command so I can manipulate the ball three four five inches at a time around the strike zone and I knew where you couldn't hit the ball So if you had a really big blue spot, it's one of Aaron judge You can't strike out 175 times a year and not have holes It's why in the postseason those guys generally don't translate you strike out 175 times You're not gonna hit well in the postseason because the guy you're not gonna see the number four and five starters

You're not gonna see the middle of a bullpen, you're gonna see the top three guys and the back three guys, and that's it. Let me tell you, I can sit here, listen to you for four hours, and I tell you, I truly enjoy listening to you, I mean, very quiet in this podcast, just listen to because the story's whether it's baseball, whether it's your thoughts, your life experiences, it's fascinating, I understand.

I look forward to the next one we do here together. I'll close out one funny story. Sure, please. All right. Joe West is an umpire in the big leagues. He just retired. He umpired more games than anybody. I am at a banquet in Philadelphia.

Sit next to the Dernaldon, Joe West. And it's in Philadelphia. Philadelphia hated Joe West. They sold dartboards with his face as the bullseye. And I didn't know Joe, I knew him as an umpire, right? Cowboy Joe West. And he is, he's a country singer in the off season. Big hitter.

Yeah, but he was a prick on the field, like a real, he was a jerk, tough guy. So I'm sitting next to him and he starts talking to me and I'm talking to him. He's funny, like he's genuinely funny. He gets up after Darren and he says, he tells this joke. He said, you know, I just realized that the reason Darren Dalton is this guy is because Darren Dalton thinks this is eight inches. Crowd goes, crowd goes, not fast forward to July of that year.

I'm pitching in Florida. Now, the thing one thing I was known about in my career is I didn't walk hitters, right? And so it's the sixth inning we're playing the Marlins in 97. See you at the Marlins one in the World Series. That's right. I was there. Gary Sheffield, seventh inning, sixth inning or seventh inning. I throw strike nine.

He walks, Joe calls it a ball. I've walked now my fifth or sixth hit, or I don't walk six hitters a month. And I was on, I had my stuff and Joe calls it a ball. And it goes back to after Joe told that story, I got up and told a story. I said, you know, I just figured something out. I saw Joe West in Montreal this winter,

this summer during the season. And he was with this hot blonde. And I looked at Joe and I looked at her and I looked back at him and I'm like, holy shit, this doesn't add up. And I said, I just realized to Joe West, this is eight inches. Yeah. Crowd is nuts.

He walks out from behind the plate in July. I walk up, I walk up. I walk up to change baseball because I got to talk to him. I said, he hands me the ball. I go, Joe, what the fuck? He goes, that ball's about eight inches outside, boy. He remembered exactly. And I'm like, he got him back.

I never read the Empire ever again. He never forgot it. You can say that now because he retired. Which is cool. So it's something like a comeback. So I have this kind of thing for that Marlon the whole series that I went to. It's a big boy. Thank you, Joe West.

So anyways, Kurt, thanks for coming out. This was fantastic. Appreciate you. You time. We will definitely have you back. Are we back on again this week or no? No, we're back tomorrow. We're back on tomorrow.

It sounds good. Who's tomorrow? Katie Hopkins. Katie Hopkins tomorrow. We'll see you guys there. Take care everybody. Bye bye. We're back tomorrow.

We're back on tomorrow. It sounds good. Who's tomorrow? Katie Hopkins. Katie Hopkins tomorrow. We'll see you guys there. Take care everybody. Bye bye.