PBD Podcast - David Pakman | Is The US More Feared With Biden Or Trump In The Office? | Ep. 231 | PART 1

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

On this episode, Patrick Bet-David and David Pakman will discuss: Why Trump is good for David financially  Why the US is more vulnerable with Biden in the office  Protect and secure your retirement savings now with this complimentary precious metals guide. Go to http://goldco.com/pbd FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on https://minnect.com/ Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? https://valuetainment.com/academy/ Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

I Did you ever think you would make it I still I'm so so you take sweeturries I know this life meant for me Yeah, why would you plan on July it when we got fed David? Value payment, giving values, contagiousness, world, or entrepreneur As we can't no value the haters, how do you run, homie, look, what I've become? I'm the one We'll figure it out

By the end of the show Yeah, I think we'll figure it out by the end Show, two out All right, So special podcast today We were hoping to do it in March, but we couldn't but we're able to make your work today and a lot of people online What's the path you got you got to get them on pad you got to get them on it be great be great conversation Finally, we made a make-a-work newly a father of seven months, which is congratulations to you.

It's great to have David Pakman on the podcast. It's so great to be here. I'm shocked. People wanted me here. They really did. That's, I mean, you were getting tagged left and right. That's great. That's great.

I love it. We're talking on the Twitter and anyways, we were able to make your work. So how's everything? How you do everything's good? Yeah. How's it feel being a father? It's, it's weird. It's like completely different and kind of everything's the same

You know, it's weird and biggest shock me like oh, I didn't expect this You know, I thought maybe like two or three diapers would be enough for a few months You need way more than two or three and rookie move What's most expensive cost that you're feeling well the most expensive one was the night nurses at the beginning Because as you know, my audience knows, my girlfriend ended up back in the hospital after the delivery and it was me at two weeks. And so I was like, we need night nurses

and night nurses are not the cheapest thing. So after that, I'm like, oh, diapers, this is great, diapers is cheap, yeah. Night nurses. That's pretty epic. I'll wait till they turn one and you find out how much eggs are going to cost. It's going to be catastrophic. So hang in there. It's it's coming. Well, she's already on eggs, you know, so it's yeah. By the way, public PSI, I'm also looking for some

night nurses out there. I don't have any kids, but if some night nurses just want to come in and take care of some things throughout the night just first to that. His interpretation of night nurse is very different than David David is not in the adult entertainment business. David is not like in you know a player. He's just saying somebody that was helping them with the kids. These are medical professors. Yes exactly.

That's a better way of putting it. That's all I'm looking for as well here gentlemen. It's a mouth to mouth. All right. Stop it. Let's go. OK, so David, for the people that don't know, if you can take a quick moment

and just kind of give them your background, you've got a massive YouTube channel, you've got billions of views online, you've done great work, you, and then maybe share with them what your philosophies are, what you believe in and we'll get started. So my 32nd backstory, born in Argentina, family moved to the US, immigrant,

learned the language, public school, et cetera, et cetera, all of that different stuff. Interested in media, interested in politics, and Argentina politics is like everything. Everybody's always talking about politics. I'm sure you're background, it's similar. And eventually started this community radio show podcast when I was doing undergrad, had the fortune that I could just kind of try making it a job while a lot of my classmates ended up having to get real jobs that were not very good.

And it worked, fortunately. I think it was a combination of timing and the opportunity and the fact that I had a situation where I could just, let's see if this thing works and I can avoid having to get a real job. And then it combined with when YouTube was blowing up and podcasting and all these things. So my show is a it's a left wing progressive call it, you know, whatever you want sort of podcast, and I'm sure we'll get into my philosophy more specifically. But we're we that's the space I occupy and we talk news and politics do interviews have

done over 1500 interviews on the show And that's that's the thing now. We're multi-platform YouTube Facebook Twitch podcasts, etc So look my biggest challenge with you is I think you go a little overboard when it comes on to supporting Trump and I think it's inappropriate I know yeah, honestly, I literally too much. I'm so I know people who are mega people. Yeah, love him But you like do it so I know people who are mega people who love him, but you're not like I know yeah, I'm so how did you have a situation with Trump? I just think his hair and his physical prowess and strength is so incredible. His golf game is unbelievable.

And I consider golf a proxy towards basically everything in life. If you're a good golfer, the way Trump is, then you're good at everything, really. I mean, that's the best, I say. But by the way, do you miss him? Be honest, do you miss him? So there's an crazy question for you. Just a crazy question for you. Like for me, you know how CNN ratings just came out

and ratings, you know, I don't know what the numbers was. We'll get into it here in a minute, worse in nine years. I don't know what the numbers were, but if you can pull up the article, worse in nine years. I don't know what the numbers were, but if you can pull up the article worse in nine years, right? So do you think like you sit there and you say like for comedy, like comedians, like you know, a great comedian maybe can do make fun of everybody. Okay. Sholtz, he can do anybody. Chappelle can do anybody. Rogan, these guys can do anybody, right? You know, but sometimes like the market needs a good president to make fun of, right?

So you know, there's a lot you can do with Biden, but there's a lot more you can do with Trump, right? Oh, absolutely. And he's so funny in spite of himself. Yeah. And sometimes it's he'll say one thing, like he'll call, you know, the CEO of Lockheed, Maryland Lockheed, but that's not her name.

Her name's her last name is not the name of the company. That's funny in the moment. Tim Apple. Tim Apple, right. There's these art. I said Tim Cook, you pretty much said Tim Apple. There's this arc, like for example, where Trump weirdly gets obsessed with toilets during his 2020 campaign.

I don't know if you guys remember this, but he would go to rallies and you would go. And they're turning down the flow on my toilets. You're gonna have to flush toilets 10 to 15 times. And I'm thinking, what is Trump doing with a toilet where you need 10 flushes, right? It's weird, but that's just the first piece. So then, on election night, when he talks about how he really won,

which he lost about, he says, there were massive dumps in the middle of the night. And you're like 15 flushes, massive dumps. And then later for you later, it's good. Later you find out he was flushing documents down the toilet. So you're like going back a year, that's the reason the toilet he was so concerned about toilets.

He's flushing documents. himself. It's a huge. So how do you handle the whole, you know, but even for yourself as a content creator, do you miss him as a kind like would you selfishly forget about political? Of course you don't want him. You would have probably had Bernie over Biden. I would assume maybe somebody else who would have been your guy if you had your choice. Yeah, I mean, I think Bernie is the closest when you look at policy to me,

but I've been very critical of the way Bernie runs his campaign. Bernie talks about he's a socialist. I'm not a socialist, and I don't actually think Bernie ran on a socialist platform but we can get to that. But I've said to my audience, Trump was great for shows like mine. There's no question about it, right?

Like speaking, if I was voting not for what I think is best for the country, but what's best for me financially, of course, Trump was a gold mine. There's no question about it. So who did you want? Like if you were to say, like today, you have your choice on who can be the president, who would you like? It's the reason, I'm going to answer the question, but the reason that it's a hard question to answer in that way is there's policy

and there's who could win, who would be good at governing, who understands how to make compromise and sort of how politics is done. So I think there's a ton of really interesting people that do well in all of these areas and I'll give you a few names. And this is now for my audience, because what I'm about to say, they'll say,

you're just the insult in my space is you're a lib, meaning I'm not, I'm not left enough. Okay, I think folks, it's crazy. A lib. Yeah, I think the people that are striking the right balance right now between policy and rhetoric and ability to actually be good politicians are people like, and this is going to be crazy.

Okay. Gavin Newsom, Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Katie Porter in California. I think these are really interesting folks who I don't necessarily agree with them on all policy, but I think they bring a few things that are important. They're younger. Right now, I think there's a few things that are important, they're younger. Right now, I think there's a problem where it's sort of like old guy after old guy after old guy on both sides were seeing this to a degree.

So I like that. I think they bring some progressive policies that are interesting without really being brandable as being socialists. And I think that that's all really important right now for the left. So what do you like about? So okay, so let's stay with who we currently have right now.

So today Biden. Yeah. What's he doing good? What do you think he's not doing good? Okay, so if I were to say here, the things that Biden got done that are accomplishments that are important and you know, things that are worth doing at a time where I think it was necessary. He did that third COVID stimulus.

Remember, Trump did two of them and Biden did a third one. I think at the time it made sense and he didn't include as much of this, or really any if I recall, the PPP slush fund, which was so fraudulently used and now the IRS is backed up on audits in part because they're doing PPP fraud investigation. So I like that.

He didn't include that. I didn't think that that was necessary. Inflation Reduction Act does a lot of interesting things and whether or not it, quote, reduces inflation. Inflation is coming down now several months in a row. I love the renewable energy stuff that's in there. I drive an electric car. I've got the solar panels.

I've got, you know, my gas stove. I'm even going to get rid of. I'm ready. I'm ready to get rid of the gas. I'm being that serious. No, yeah, I've got the solar panels, I've got, you know, my gas stove, I'm even going to get rid of. I'm ready. I'm ready to get rid of the. I'm serious. No, yeah, I had. You're fully committed. It's not a commitment. It's the induction is unbelievable. Once you actually learn to use it, it's fantastic. I was repeating, oh, you get the gas stove. You can modulate down to the, it's beautiful. I've now cooked with induction. It's fantastic. So I'm fully, I think it's fantastic. I think encouraging that we we're not banning gas stoves, of course. I'm exaggerating.

I think that that's really great. I think getting out of Afghanistan, I think, was the absolute right decision. Many criticisms of the chaos that unfolded when Trump was asked, how would you have done it differently? He didn't actually have any answer. It was Trump's plan to get out that Biden did a few months later because Trump never got to it for whatever reason. I think that was the right decision.

It was going nowhere, 20 years there, et cetera. On student loan forgiveness, I don't know what's going to happen eventually. I'm not a forgivol student loans guy. Some in my audience are like, David, all loans should be forgiven. It's like, no, I don't think so. I don't think that makes sense. But we've had programs like, if you're a doctor and you work in an underserved community long enough, you qualify to get those loans forgiven. I think certain programs like that make a lot

of sense. So I think that that's a good thing. And quite frankly, and this is where, you know, the the Trump people email me and they get very mad. If this, not my opinion, if we go by Gallup opinion survey, what other countries think of the US opinion of the US has dramatically improved since Biden replaced Trump. I think that matters. I, I'm not an isolationist. So I think it's important that other countries respect the office of the presidency. And under Trump, it was a joke. You know, literally laughed at at the UN, goes to India, mispronounces 10 Indian names, and the crowd is just leaving it. It was a humiliation everywhere he went. So I think that's a great, it's like a soft thing that I think is really good.

So the fact that we're no longer feared is a good thing. I don't know where you're getting that we are no longer feared. So you think people fear Biden? What I'm asking you is where, what data do you have that we are no longer feared? Well, that's not it. That's what data is not any data to give. I mean, during,

How do you know it is? Well, no, but during, by, during, Biden is when Russia feel comfortable, bullying Ukraine during, Biden is, even if you look at Afghanistan on the way we left people on the left were not happy by the way we left Afghanistan, which

even 82 billion I can give you a lot of different names like CIA who's a CIA guy that we had here who was on Philip mudz with a Z what's his name Matt Zeller Matt Zeller CIA agent who was on MSNBC he called them out he was on MSNBC. He called them out. He was on MSNBC with... But that's one person, right? No, but there's a lot of them though. If I actually pull it up, and if I do the Google search on it, I'll find plenty of names from their own side. Let's do it.

That's fine. But I think one important thing to back up is, you first kind of gave me what's not really a very fair question. You go, are you not worried that the US is no longer fear? So you're saying they they don't fear hold on let me finish let me finish We're sponsored yeah, you first presented to me and these are a lot of conversations go like this You present to me is it not a concern to me that the US is no longer feared and I said well Where are you getting that what where's the data you go out there is no data?

So where let's first start with no what I said is it's not the the fee I didn't out there is no data so where let's first start with what i said is that that's not the the i didn't say there's no data you can't you can't pull data meaning you can't find data on fear fear you know that fear action fears action did did during uh... did during trump russia attack you crane s no that's not what happened with palestin in israel what happened what happened they came together after 20 some years. What? What are you talking about when you say what are you talking about?

Hold on. Let me move the Capitol to Jerusalem as what you're saying. So let's talk about there's been peace Let's talk at least or anything like that. Has there been any progress on peace? Very limited did moving the cat did move it wasn't the capital did moving the embassy correct the last the question did moving the embassy from telev to jirusselam get us closer to peace or did it get us further further away do either of you guys know i don't know if you studied this issue i was arguments on both and but it has not led to peace and prosperity in Palestine correct did trump promise this is very critical clear question did

trump promise that Jared Kushner would solve the Israeli Palestinian conflict during the first term now But that's yes, no did he promise it? I don't know if he promised it or promises made promises kept He was assigned to that duty and did it happen? What happened did Jared negotiate? No, but I don't think anybody believed that peace was happening in the least. So it's okay for him to make promises that are obvious lies. But make the argument.

Go back to the argument about the fact that America on all polls today is, would you say, light? What was the word you used? So I think the really important thing when we talk about this is we talk about what we can measure. So the gallop polling that has been done.

So you trust polls. Oh, come on. But that's what we're going though. There are lots of different. I trust certain polls too, but I'm saying so you trust polls. If you say do I trust a Rasmussen Republican primary poll 18 months before an election, I would say that's not very valuable. I don't think that's valuable.

The Gallup public opinion sentiment poll that has been done over many, many presidents in the same way, I think that that's a pretty good poll just to give a sense of how the world feels about the American president. I have no reason to distrust that. There are other polls where I would have a specific reason to distrust. But we're kind of going like 10 tangents here. I think if we want to talk about a my upset that the US isn't feared, since you brought that question forward, the appropriate thing would be for you to give me the data. But no go go back to what you said, you said US is what? You said you like the fact that US has liked more today under Biden?

No, I didn't use that term. What was the term you use if you don't love it again? On average, yeah. Countries respect the US more now that Biden is president. And you value that. I think it's important because I can tell you why. Sure. I think it's important because between trade and globalization and problems we deal with that don't respect the borders of countries, it's important to be, again, it's not about liked, it's not about, it's to be respected globally. I do think that that actually matters.

So, so why do you think they didn't like or respect Trump? Let's see what you're going to say with that. Why do you think? Tell me. The guy's a joke. He is. Yeah. Okay. Tell us why. And, man, Biden's not a joke. Well, we can talk about Biden. Oh, because Biden's like the goat and Trump's the joke. No, no, no, no. Okay. So why I'm pretty good. Tell us why he's a joke. But I think it's important to say, are we talking about Trump or are we talking about Biden? No, no, I don't know. I don't know if I'm talking about them one at a time. Stay on Trump.

Stay on Trump when he sees a joke. Tell us why you think he's a joke. Promises made that were not kept, that he told us he was going to achieve for us. Let's look at some of them. I'm going to get rid of Obamacare and replace it with his word, a beautiful replacement, where everyone will have care and it's going

to be affordable. Okay. Just flat out didn't happen. The one proposal that Republicans made would have led to 24 to 32 million people losing healthcare. I consider that a failure. I don't think Obamacare is perfect, but it's better than the think Trump thing Trump said he was going to bring us.

That was just a failure. Two, build a wall across the entire US Mexico border, which Mexico is going to pay for. It's not even worth having a convert, I mean, just a joke. Of course, of course, completely didn't happen. Solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. No progress made, in fact, to be honest,

and this is, you know, if we want to delve into that, moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem got us further from that because it's seen as a sort of taunting measure if you understand the internal politics of what's going on there. It was going to, you know, the made some space travel promises. I mean, we could, I can't think of promises he made that he did keep. Other than, I guess, he was gonna do tax reform and he did tax reform. So as a policy matter, a complete and total failure, I do think maybe the first step act

on criminal justice reform did some good things. I'm sort of glad to give him credit on that. But so on policy, failure, and then on rhetoric, we could spend three hours just looking at quotes. If, you know, some curious to see exactly how you think about it. If COVID doesn't happen, does he get reelected? Yes.

Why? Well, because his followers don't care about policy. I interview them all the time and I say, followers don't care about policy. They don't care about policy. I interview them all the time and I say, followers don't care about policy. They don't care about achievements. They care about Hillary bad, Hillary Marxist, Hillary socialist. You think Hillary is good. Did I say that? I'm asking you. Oh, yeah. I don't think Hillary was a good candidate and she's, she's to my right. No, I don't think Hillary is good, but I thought she was better than Trump. She's to your right. She's to my right. Hillary is a very moderate conservative Democrat in your world.

Yeah. Yeah. God. I mean, give me a left wing Hillary policy, like a really left wing Hillary policy. I couldn't tell you, but that's not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, but that's not the point about you're saying you would much rather have a Hillary than a Trump. I would rather. Okay.

So go back to my rather. I don't know. So go back to, he gets re-elected. Why? Because his voters could care less about policies. That's what you're saying. They could care less. Fine, no problem. But we both know that it's not the right that's elects.

I mean, it's not the left that elects whoever on the left. It's whoever's in the middle. That's right. The A to 12% that kind of says, you know what? I'm gonna go this side, you know, this time around or versus more people come out for, you know, their candidate Meaning a lot of people would come out for Obama. Okay, so explain yourself. What it actually more depends on is who chooses to go out and vote It's less about you know There's there's often this idea in politics and there's lots of people who are really good on this issue that you could talk to Rachel Bittacoffer and even Frank Lundse, even though he's partisan, I think he would

concede this as well. He's a pollster, you may have been playing clubs, yeah. The idea of the swing independent voter that sometimes on, on presidential elections will vote for a Republican and sometimes a Democrat, very, very small percentage of people. More common is that a candidate either activates people to vote or those same people just stay home. In the US, we have an embarrassingly low voter turnout. It's between usually 52 and 60%. I think.

So almost half the electorate isn't even voting. It's less about people who vote one way and then another way. It's more about people who say, I'm just gonna stay home versus I'm going to go out and vote. If they vote, it's clear. So you're saying that the middle voter doesn't matter at all. No, I didn't say that. So what are you saying? I said they matter much less than who who is partisan chooses to vote

But it's fair to say that if if he continues so if he continues And there's no COVID he would get reelected Do you think the let's specifically target the middle? Forget the people on the side that would show up. Okay. Well, why? That's the question I want to do with you right now. So if we specifically focus on the middle, what the middle, the independent libertarians,

would they have chosen to stick with Trump or would most have wanted to replace them with some modules? It's a polling question. I don't have the data. Well, you're the poll, guys. I'm asking you. I don't have the data in for that. Okay. I'd be curious. So you're, but you're also correct to me to say that's not true.

That's the middle and the independence that they didn't elect them. You're saying it's who showed up that elected him as a general concept. Right. Elections swing less based on independence, who sometimes vote Republican and Democrat. That's a small factor. A bigger factor is our voters activated by their candidate or are they deactivated where they go? I don't like this person, but I'm definitely not voting for that one. I'll stay home. She's in a bit of both though. It's a bit of both because we all have another rest about. We've seen countless stories about. I voted for Obama. I'm not racist. I voted for Obama. What are you talking about? I voted for Bush. Then I voted for Obama. I'm not racist. I voted for Obama. What are you talking about? I voted for Bush, then I voted for Obama and then Trump showed up. He made some promises.

He was in the Midwest. He was out there. He was reaching out, touch your hands. Hillary was too busy in New Mexico and Arizona. I decided to vote for Trump. I was sort of done with Trump. Now I'm back on Biden. Yeah, that's so many stories like that. That's independence. That's an anecdote. And so I think anecdotes are fine, but one of the things that is important is to zoom out from anecdotes and to look at the broader data. And the other thing that's important is a lot of that cross-voting, it cancels each other out because you see roughly the same amount from one side versus the other. And what I mean by that is, there was, if you look at the crossover in 2016,

the number of Democrats who decided to vote Trump in 2016 was very similar to the number of Democrats who decided to vote McCain in 2008. So it's a roughly predictable number. You're talking about Democrats who have switched over. It's just the legitimate independence. I'm giving you just one example of this, people who go either way or whatever.

It's relatively stable and predictable, so it's rarely a difference maker. That's my only point. And we can anecdotes all day, Jim Bob's wife decided to vote Hillary or what, yeah, it's totally fine. But let's do data because you're a data guy. So if your data guy tell us, when you're saying,

it's not necessarily that the middle one it would have had Trump. Yeah. Would he have needed the middle to get reelected in 2024? In 2020? He would have needed roughly the same percentage that Republicans tend to need. Trump suffered because they're,

here on the COVID thing, what do you've gotten reelected? It's not only if COVID didn't happen, Trump probably would have gotten reelected. I think if when COVID thing, what do you've gotten reelected? It's not only if COVID didn't happen, Trump probably would have gotten reelected. I think if when COVID started, instead of Trump saying, we have 15 cases soon gonna be zero, do flu vaccines work on COVID, what about bleach injections, all that stuff? If instead of that, Trump said,

hey, you know what, we're the United States. We're going to deal with this better than anybody else. We're making maga masks, and by the, $0.50 on every dollar will go, you know, his normal fundraising scams, right? Do the scams, but do the maga masks. And if he said, we're going to be absolutely the best on this thing. He wins. We saw it in New Zealand.

We saw it in other places. It was a missed opportunity. Now, I think it was just a miscalculation in the sense that somewhere Trump probably thought it was really going to go away. I don't know who was around him. I don't know by Easter of 2020, right? I mean, okay. So I think Trump, even if he had just done that, and because we saw why would he have? Why would the, why would the independence, the ones in the middle who are, let's just say slightly more reasonable and they're willing to say, you know, I don't like this guy on the left. I'm going to vote right. I don't like this guy on the right. I'm going to vote left. Yeah. Why would they

have still chosen Trump over Biden? You were now, I have no idea. You'd have to talk to them. I just don't know. But you're given your arguments. And so your arguments you're given as you're talking about, polls like Biden because America's more respected under Biden than Trump. Okay, so that's nothing to do with American voters. We're talking about people in other countries. But totally get it. But when you say something like that,

the voter says, oh wow, America, the world respects Biden more than they respect Trump. Okay, somebody may say, well, maybe because, you know, America was the world respects Biden more than they respect Trump. Sure. Okay. Somebody may say, well, maybe because, you know, anybody who was an enemy of America hated Trump, because Trump would, you know, deal more directly with them than Biden would. Biden, you can't necessarily see him, you know, he doesn't look like a leader. He's not an Obama-esque, he's not a Clinton guy. Biden doesn't come across as a strong leader, but you're saying he's more respected than Trump. Great, no problem.

Okay. So then I go and I ask you a question and I say, if COVID doesn't happen, does it get reelected? Yes. Why? You say because more people show up this whole narrative about the fact that you need the middle voter to tip them. That's not true. How many people show up? And it's his people because his people don't care if he gets anything done. That's what you said. That was your narrative. Right.

That's what you said. Those were your words. Some of those words mirror the things that I said. Yes. Okay. So it activates, which means, so Trump's voters. So give me, when you say, I speak to a lot of these Trump voters, there's obviously a lot of animosity in you. You have a lot of resent more animosity towards them. I don't know why.

But you seem angry enough. Towards Trump. I mean, your comments like, you know, towards Trump is boom, you know, voters are this voters are that to you. What problem maybe with that? I have to interrupt that. But I get that. So what is the what is and you can answer all those questions and I'll give you your time. I'm not all of them but I'll write a right what is the DNA of a typical mega voter in your eyes there there's not any typical DNA I think there's basically three primary categories of people that vote for Republicans and Trump introduced a fourth

fair to introduce these four categories break it down for us for us that you know you we don't have your intelligence well it's not about intelligence. And I don't know if you're being sarcastic. It's not about intelligence. Just about have you researched your talent. This is your world. So this is your world. So tell us what you think about the three and the fourth.

With your intelligence, imagine what you could do if you looked up the things I look up. That's really the incredible. OK, no. So in all seriousness, four basic groups, pre-Trump, you had three groups you had. Sort of pro-business low tax right wingers. People like Mitt Romney, basically.

They are, I mean, Romney maybe isn't a little bit of an exception because as a Mormon, he has some socially conservative views. But you've got your Romney type who's concerned with, let's not over regulate businesses, let's not have taxes that are too high, let's create a good business environment as governor of Massachusetts. That was his idea. And that's a good business environment as governor of Massachusetts. That was sort of his idea and that's a very blue state and he did well.

So you've got like your Romney types. Traditional low tax limited government. Not extreme right now. Not extreme right now. Not extreme right now. Social issues. Not particularly homophobic for example. Or you know, okay, then you've got your more libertarian-minded people.

I found it interesting when you said your independent and libertarians. In the US, libertarians are mostly right-wing and they mostly vote for Republicans. So then you've got your very libertarian-minded people who focuses that. We want just as much freedom to do as much stuff as possible. It often includes freedom to discriminate

if I don't wanna do like a gay wedding cake that you've got that group. You then have evangelical and religious voters whose primary things are less economic. So what was your second one? Second one is a libertarian. Libertarian. Third, you've got your evangelical. My pants vote, if you will. More than Mike Pence vote, people for whom abortion and gay marriage and more recently, you know, trans stuff, that's really the most important. They'll go with the economic stuff, even though it's actually often not good for them. And you started to see this under Reagan a lot where these religious voters, they went

with Reagan, even though economically, it wasn't the best thing for them. Those are typically the three groups. You hear the comment term. They're voting against their interests because they have social ideologies and they gravitate towards it. So you've got those three groups. Trump had all of that. The early Ted Cruz support in 2016 is that third group, that evangelical.

That eventually went to Trump. Trump coalesced these groups because they really weren't going to vote for Hillary. The fourth group which Trump kind of created is people who were not at all engaged with politics before. They didn't pay attention. They knew Trump as a celebrity. They didn't really have a political identity. They were disaffected.

They weren't really participating before. So, for is his personalities what you're saying or for? Yeah. They got brought in specifically. He introduced that. That's been around for a while though. He introduced what? You're saying he Trump introduced the fourth you said typically

It's three. Oh, yeah, but Trump introduced the fourth or Trump has the fourth. Trump is Activated the fourth group which was people who were not in any of those three categories I mentioned and got engaged in politics for the first time because they heard Trump say something that they liked Give give some examples of those type. You talk about West Virginia coal miners or people with deep red south. They were from all over, but it was people who liked that Trump was gonna fix trade with China.

A lot of them didn't really know what that meant, but it sounded pretty good. Maybe the person had lost a job. They came to believe it's because of China that I lost my job. That sounds good. Or people who are on immigration, they're like the wall.

Of course, you and I know, you're never building a wall never mind mexico's gonna pay for it but there were people who like the idea never were in politics like no it sounds good I'm voting for Trump so he brought in this fourth group okay so so the fourth group to be exact it's his personality that people were turned on by the way he was could be personality but it could be that there was one thing he said that they really like. So let me ask the question, is there something wrong with that?

I'm curious, are you going to a place where there's something wrong with that? Or? No, it's not about right or wrong. It's a question of whether any of us think that the policy motivations for any of those groups align with ours. Somebody may say there's a lot of people that showed up for Obama just because he was black. Sure.

They can say that. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. But you don't think it's true? Of course, in a country of 130 million people, there are going to be some. But you said you don't know if it's true. It's like, what do you mean you don't know if it's true? I don't have any.

I don't have any. You don't have any data. You want to get data to say people showed up that they just because they're black. There's exit polling on most of these issues. We might be able to find it right now, you know. No, it's, it's, you know, I can't. I can't. I can't.

I can't even tell you how many people, I know Republicans who were voting for Obama in the insurance industry just because like gliss of that first time this guy talks like mlk you know he sounds reasonable about what for the guy there's a lot of people that came out of the so somebody may say well you know the reason why obama got elected because he's got the three difficult things when he talks to the democrat that out of the four thing is he was black okay and you're gonna say what

i would say yeah i'm sure that there's a portion of people who vote based so So so you're saying the DNA of a Trump mega voter Who looks past policies? So you're saying on the three policies he didn't check off the three policies here the three points You're saying that I I'm saying he didn't build the wall or I'm Let me take a step back with him. So I'm asking you a question and I said, so tell me if you're saying he's going to get reelected

without COVID, you're saying he would have gone reelected. I think he would have. Perfect. And then you said, your words, you said something in the context of, you know, because I think the mega voter is not about policies. That's what you said. A lot of that fourth group is not about overarching accomplishments.

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about and maybe it'll help distill it. I got a call at some point during the first term of Trump from a guy who said, I'm voting for this guy. This guy is just the best. And I said, okay, what do you care about? How are you evaluating his performance to decide if you're going to vote for him in 2020? How do you do you just, I'm curious, how do you say, he said, well, I care about the wall. So he's, he's got to build that wall. I said, perfect. If he doesn't build the wall, are you still going to vote for him? And he says, well, yeah, I'm not going to vote for a Democrat.

So I said, oh, so it doesn't actually matter if he builds the wall. Same with you as well, though. There's no way you're voting for Republican either. Would you vote for Republican? Sure. Yeah. I mean, if I have that. Have you ever voted for Republican president? No, I mean, I've only voted for election. Yeah, but hold on a second.

But you're 40 years old. You're 1984, so it's the... I'm 38, please. Ha, ha, ha. 38 years old. 38 years, still you've had plenty of elections. Let's back up for a second. There's two questions. Would I and have I, I've only voted in a few presidential elections.

You've had plenty of chances. Well, but who would I vote for? I was going to vote for George W. Bush in 2004. No. But it doesn't matter. The point is when you're calling that guy out, you're the same as that guy. No, I'm not. Okay, so tell me you're Republican, you'd vote for.

I don't, I think you're missing the picture. I think what is it? The point is he made a claim that he was going to make a vote depending on policy. And when I then said, so if the policy fails, you'll vote for someone else. And he said, no, actually, the policy doesn't matter. That's the difference. I'm not making that claim. Okay, it's a completely different thing. I mean, the same can be said to take one example of a story of a person who sounds like an idiot to say that and then categorize everybody

and Trump is selective hearing, to say, that's not what I'm doing. That's selective for you. Well, you are kind of doing that. You're saying here's a Republican voter who you ask, why are you thinking about voting for trump all because he's building the wall then you said if he doesn't build the wall well i would never vote for democrat will do you care for the wall ball wall

they were it gets built no i don't come on vote for many ways well that's it that's it that's that doesn't sound like a reasonable voter to me though that's right he's not a reasonable what the reasonable voters to me was also if if you were to ask the average person who voted for Biden, they didn't vote for Biden. Okay. They voted against Trump.

Okay. Do you disagree? I'd have to look at exit polls. Okay. So is that, is that where you go to? For something like that. For a guy who, if this is your space, what's your podcast about? What is it about?

What's your show about? News and politics? You should know this stuff. You're the expert. I brought you here. I just don't remember that off-hand. How do you find it right now? But this is your world.

If you ask me questions on business, I'm going to say, let me give you my feedback on what I think about business. You're about, no, on your podcast, I'm not a bad, I want to talk about business. Let's do that. I have no problem with it to do that part. No, listen.

But what I'm saying to you is, if you're coming here, saying what you're saying. And then I ask you a simple question of, so the same thing can be said about people that voted for Biden. Yeah, I'm stupid. I'm gonna vote for anybody. Dude, nobody would show up when Biden would speak.

Did you not see his tour when he was going campaigning? Patrick, you're not really doing this, are you? Tell me you're doing this. I'm actually curious where you're gonna go now. What's your... Biden wasn't even doing events where, I mean, this is the Biden one from the basement then. I have a counter to this entire,

and I want to just be really clear. I don't really care about defending Biden in any particular sense. I just think he was the better option than Trump. I feel like I'm being framed as this Biden lover who's gonna defend everything. I'm not doing that. You may be thinking I'm done, I'm not doing that to you. What I'm asking, what I Biden lover who's going to defend everything. I'm not doing that. You may be thinking I'm doing that to you.

What I'm asking, what I want to say about this is that. Can you pull up Biden's rallies when he was running for president? Go ahead. Let's see the pictures. But go ahead. Biden didn't do a campaign the way Trump did it and the funniest thing to me. Neither has anybody done a like the way Biden's done it. He hid.

Well, let hold the guys. This is their own COVID though. Yes. Let's back up for a second. Look how beautiful that is. Well, that's these are because of the house. Patrick, you got to be. This is really the your tell me your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your give him a million dollars of money right now to go try to fill up an arena. For what's the point? To show that nobody is inspired by this guy.

This is so silly. No, but what's serious, what's silly is for you to assume people voted for Biden. They voted against Trump is what they did. No, he did, yeah, sure. Yeah, but what you just said, I said, I don't know what the percentage is. But it's your world,

this is like, if you're gonna sit here and talk about how bad the Trump voter is, and you let me tell you, it's these people, all they care about is this personality for outside of the taxes and all this other stuff. And then I ask you a question, I say, so why did people vote for Biden? Many of them voted because they just said them on Trump.

Yeah, I don't know the numbers on that. Okay, you should know those numbers. I just don't know that off hand. I mean, we can look it up. Why do I need to memorize? Can I make a quick point? Can I just get there? There's just one thing I want to say here.

Go ahead. This entire Biden-Hidd stuff, it's such a self-hidd or hid. Hidd in his basement. Because when you talk about the things that you're did though, he hit a lot of times, but can I can I get a statement out? Okay. If I were on the right, I would stop saying that because it's embarrassing to Trump that

he lost to a guy who hit in his basement. It's not. That's the that's the crazy thing. You're president. Your guy Joe Biden is the that's the crazy thing. I was not talking to Joe Biden is the greatest hiding go seek champion of all time. Wait a minute. When you say is he not he's not your president. He's my president. Okay. But he's your guy. He's the guy you're defending. You're defending him right now to say only that he's better than Trump because you're making you do this. The only the only reason that there's no way in a, even the liberals today are not saying he's

better than Trump in executing or taking action or doing anything. Let's find out. I have only the only credit. Well, at this point, you've lost credibility to talk about polls because you don't even know what you're talking about when you're saying, well, I don't know. I don't know if the people were voting against Trump. Let's find a poll. So if you can't agree for that, I don't know. I don't know if the people were voting against Trump. Let's find a poll. So if you can't agree for that, I said, I don't know how many.

Of course they were. It's not just how many. It's if you go on look at any of these people who were doing what he called it street to when they're going talking to people. Yeah, it's okay. So tell me, who would you vote here? Trump's the worst. I would never vote for him.

People didn't want to vote for this guy because because 99% of media everybody was sitting there, bashing them non-stop. That's by the way, same thing's going to happen with the Santas. Yeah. Same thing happened with Bush. The only Republicans Democrats like is ex-presidents who are now painters. The only Republicans Democrats like Because they're no longer a threat. Trump's a big threat. So for you to say, well, we now have respect around the world. I don't even know if I want that. I think if there's an element of competition, because I think if China has to choose between Trump or Biden and China would rather have Biden, that's probably not a good sign for me.

Okay. Is it a good sign if Russia wants Trump? I mean, this is kind of a silly game, right? No, but Russia is not our number one enemy. Russia doesn't control 80% of chips. Russia is not as powerful as people think they are. They have a lot of nukes, they lead the world, totally get it. But we're seeing right now what's happening to Russia.

Russia is more, they're powerful, you've got to put them up there. They're strong, but China is really, really strong in experience. China hates America, China doesn't, they're publicly announced what they're going to be doing. There's a very big difference between China and Russia. And by the way, I'm not sitting here telling you we got to be best friends with Russia. But if China likes a president over another one, that is a red flag for me. Yeah, it's not rare as a view on the American right that is generally who cares what other countries think.

I would almost rather they hate us. That's really common. I didn't say that. No, no, no, I'm not saying that. That's what you're saying. I would almost rather they hate us. That's really common. I didn't say that. No, no, I'm not saying that. That's what you're saying. I want to see a poll on that. Do you have a poll on that? Not a fan.

Then how could you say, why do you have a poll? Give me a poll. Patrick. But no, give me a poll because that's an anecdote then. We can use this. But no, you're not going to stop any conversation. But you're doing that.

But that's what you're doing though. But you did it with the polls about the number of the experts. You're the political expert on that. Come on, this is a silly question. You're the political expert. No, you're doing. But you did it with the polls about the long or like your political expert. I'm not. Come on. This is a political expert. What you just did. No, you're being silly. So I'm giving you exactly what you've been doing

for the first 30 minutes now to officially bothers you. No, no, it doesn't bother me. I think it's silly. I think we don't get anywhere. But wait a minute, but what you're saying is that if the argument you give us and show me a poll, show it to me, you can't do it. There's a difference between you saying that there's a specific opinion among voters that they were motivated by particular reason. You can't do it. There's a difference between saying that there's a specific

opinion among voters that they were motivated by the particular reason. You have polling on that. You like to. We just have to find it. You like you like to use that, but not when it works against you. Yeah, I didn't say hate. I'm not a hate guy. If I was a hate guy, you wouldn't be here today. I didn't say that. No, you said most Republicans would prefer if other countries hated us. You're putting your assume. I didn't say most. Run it back.

Wait, you didn't say what? I didn't say most. You said what? I said there is a contingent on the right that actually is emboldened by if they don't like how small of a community is that. I don't know. So you're going to take the exception or you're going to make that argument? Oh my God.

Yeah. Patrick. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm forclamped. Yeah. Yeah. You and I both. You and Linda Richmond. I, um, I, we've, we've, it just, we're going tangent,

tangent, tangent, tangent where we can't really drill down on any one issue. I'm, I'm saying to you, hate is not, If I had hate, I would have not had you on. I didn't describe that word to you. You said, I said fear. I said fear. Is really in the show. No, no, what I mean is, if China prefers any president,

for example, if McConnell is going to be president, in China wants McConnell over, let's pick a, I don't know, over Talsi. Okay. I'm not, I'm not McConnell. Okay. If China wants, uh, uh, uh, pick a, uh, what, what is her name? List Cheney. If China was List Cheney, over. Pete Buttichich. I would be hesitant there. Okay. Because who is the number one enemy? Who is the number one enemy? I'm actually curious what you're gonna think about that.

I don't know about this term. This is a part that I'm not asking polls. I don't know about the term enemy. I mean, I think in terms of adversary, I think it's Russia and China differently in different ways. As you talked about, we depend way more on China for goods that we enjoy being cheap because they're made in China rather than here.

I agree. That confers huge economic power, China. Russia in a different way, yes, it's the NUX, yes, it's the more unstable leader. It's also alliances with countries where Russia's involvement can go or pull the United States in in ways that are both resource intensive and politically disadvantageous. So I think they are those are the two countries. Give me. Oh, I mean, there's the Afghanistan situation. You could argue Russia, I mean, with Venezuela, there's issues there that are more economic

relating to oil, which we've talked about. It's less about products and it's less about supply chain with Russia, although with energy, Russia is a factor. But I think those are our two biggest adversaries. I don't know if the right term is enemy. I'm open to exploring whether that's the right term. Certainly, adversary is the right term. I think I'm on the same page with you on, whether it's adversary or enemy, you know, keep

a mind. I've never taken anything past ESL in my English. So my the word enemy and adversary may have the same meaning to me. Maybe a different meaning for you. There. It's opposition is how I see it. But I agree. But the part for me is if a country is overly comfortable with one and is afraid of imposing pain on them and kind of backs off a little bit. I want to know a little bit more. Do you apply that to every country or only the countries you're concerned about like

China? And what I mean by that is I'll give you a chance. I know what you're going to go to Russia. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just saying, if Denmark prefers Liz Cheney over Pete Buttigieg, does that influence your thinking? Not necessarily. Okay, fair.

So what I'm getting at is you're concerned not in general with the opinion. No, I'm saying my domain is main enemies. Denmark is not somebody. We don't wake up in a morning worried about what Denmark. That's why I asked the question. Yeah, and Denmark is never publicly said by 2025. We're going to be big than America and we're going to do the, they've never said that. There's only a few countries that have said that. That's fair. So it would be fair then just to say your concern is not

gender. So when I say, Hey, you know what? Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, UK, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, you know, I give you this, they respect Biden more than Trump. That would not be a concern to you because they aren't the adversaries you're concerned. No, I'm curious where you're going with this. No, nowhere. I'm just, I have no hidden agenda. All I'm saying is this. Here's what I'm saying.

Let's just say, for example, let's say, I don't know, a SPF, San Bankman Fried. If he got up on the pulpit, and for 30 minutes said great things about you, and you got up and said 30 minutes good things about him, I'm a little worried about you. Okay, so I sit there and I'm saying, interesting. I get the concept.

Yeah, that's all I'm saying to you. But it only applies because it's Sam Bankman freed, right? Of course. If Kelly who brought me in here said great things about me that you would have different opinions. She's not an enemy. She's not an adversary. Yeah.

Okay. That's fair. So really, there's this small list of countries where you would say their opinion is a concern. I'm actually really curious where you're going though. Just to say it's not you acted as though the general reality. No, no, no, I'm not sitting here putting everybody. I'm telling you top enemies. Okay, so who's the third?

Who concerns you the most at third spot? I'm not sure. I mean, you could make the case that, you know, there's a view that it would be one of the so-called socialist communist nations, like North Korea, people talk about. Among the American right, there's big concern about Cuba and Venezuela. I don't really share that concern. I'm not a supporter of either of those regimes to be clear, and I'm glad to talk about that,

but I don't really share that concern. I think third actually is more difficult to say. Iran. Yeah. Iran is a concern, not economically, but it's basically all focused around nuclear weapons and the possibility of seeding terror. So that's a very different situation than Russia

and very different situation than China. With third, it really depends on the politics of the person that you ask, and I kind of keep an open mind on that. than China. With third, it really depends on the politics of the person that you ask, and I kind of keep an open mind on that.