PBD Podcast - "Hard Work Beats Talent" - Eddie Hearn Talks Pay, Corruption, And Legacy In Boxing | PBD Podcast. | Ep. 506

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

In this exclusive interview, Patrick Bet-David and English boxing promoter Eddie Hearn dive deep into the boxing business, the challenges of fighter promotion, and why Hearn believes the sport’s big...gest problem is greed. A candid discussion you don’t want to miss. --- 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠https://bit.ly/3XC5ftN⁠ 🎄 PURCHASE THE VT CHRISTMAS COLLECTION: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4hDCt3S⁠ 📰 VTNEWS.AI: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3Zn2Moj⁠ 👕 VT POLO SHIRTS: ⁠https://bit.ly/3Y4Npig⁠ 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠https://bit.ly/3ze3RUM⁠ 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠https://bit.ly/47iOGGx⁠ 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠https://bit.ly/4e0FgCe⁠ 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠https://bit.ly/3MGK5EE⁠ 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠https://bit.ly/4d5nYlU⁠ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠https://bit.ly/3XC8L7k⁠ 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3XjSSRK⁠ 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! SUBSCRIBE TO: ⁠‪@VALUETAINMENT‬⁠ ⁠‪@vtsoscast‬⁠ ⁠‪@ValuetainmentComedy‬⁠ ⁠‪@bizdocpodcast‬⁠ ⁠‪@theunusualsuspectspodcast‬⁠ ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 The world has gone a little bit soft. Let's be honest, you don't get given anything for free. Do you see yourself as a better promoter than any of these guys minus Don? I don't like the way Don King does business. By the way, 1.6 million pay per view, 80 million dollars in revenue will fight between those two. Yeah, I would say that's 100% not true. But he came out today and said, I wanna fight Eddie.
Starting point is 00:00:21 I will fight Eddie for free. Oscar De La Hoya, you know I mean him I like this what happened with a point you have to walk away and go I don't need to do this anymore You just presented yourself as Extremely confident that not just you're great, you know me and Jake we've had a I've got a big defamation case against him at the moment But you call me average after you want a minute after one of my first professional fight. No, but you're still average. I'm being honest. He's very average. Is this a million dollar bet you guys made? Maybe we can talk about a million, but we'll have a talk about it. Let's do a million. I don't know. I don't want to see Jake Paul beat Mike Tyson. An
Starting point is 00:00:56 example of a fighter that's been misrepresented and abused is Mike Tyson. Biggest losing fight for you business-wise. We sold out, but the pay-per-view flopped. You lost money on that? Yeah, no, no, no. Probably my best example of that is Canelo Alves. Just don't ever, ever make decisions based off emotion again. You know, like, leave the s*** out of you, don't you?
Starting point is 00:01:18 I said the guy was a pound-for-pound great fighter. You think you're on a different level? Different level. What do you think he is in pursuit of? I know this life meant for me. Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet David? Valuetainment, giving values contagious. This world are entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters. I be running homie, look what I become. I'm the one. Okay, so we have one of the greatest promoters of all time in the house today. He's representing some of the biggest fights, Anthony Joshua, Canelo Alvarez, Triple G, I can give you a bunch
Starting point is 00:02:08 of names and I don't know why when he gets on the camera people want to see what this guy has to say. Talks a lot of shit and entertaining, funny, still one and only Eddie Hearn. It's great to have you here. Thank you, thank you. Firstly, you've got your own rap theme tune. I mean, I'm straight away getting on the phone to my guys. I want one of those. I mean, yeah, I want one. No, we gotta get it for you, especially now this next, the fact that you're considering changing your career
Starting point is 00:02:33 into politics, you need one. You need to get into that. But I wanna start off with this. So when I was looking into the story, what I know you as is the promoter, right? And then when you get into your like, let me, little bit more, you study your pops, and there's a couple clips about your dad, I'm watching,
Starting point is 00:02:49 I'm like, this guy fires me up, right? And then I find this clip of your dad's 10 rules for life. Have you seen this? I'm gonna read this to people that haven't seen it. So number one, it's better to be born lucky than good looking. Number two, tell the truth, it's easier than telling lies. 3. Sheer work ethic can make you look like a genius.
Starting point is 00:03:12 4. Pressure is only felt by those who fail. 5. You will run a better business and life if you think poor. 6. Unusual things happen every day of your life. How you deal with them makes you unusual. Seven, life ends in tears, so smile the rest of your life. Eight, your life does not change by sitting on the sofa. Nine, avoid being a secret, and I love this one by the way. If you're good, then admit to it.
Starting point is 00:03:38 If you're great, then shout it from the rooftops. And number 10, when you need a hand, you're more likely to get it kick in the nuts when you need no help There will be a queue of people wanting to give you things one of great life's greatest mysteries how Influential was he in shaping your mindset getting that competitive edge that you have today Everything I mean, you know, I'm kind of like first generation money.
Starting point is 00:04:06 But now things have changed a lot from when I was growing up in terms of our business and the success of it. So how we grew up wasn't how my kids are growing up, for example, because things have gone very well for us, but he was adamant that I wouldn't be a spoiled rich kid. You know, he calls me silver spoon. This is this joke between us. And I always tell him that I turned it be a spoiled rich kid. You know, he calls me silver spoon. This is his joke between us. And I always tell him that I turned it gold, you know?
Starting point is 00:04:28 And we always joke about it. But I think that as you get a little bit older, you start to reflect on your childhood. And my childhood was, not a lot of people get it, the way that I was brought up. Like the world has gone a little bit soft. Let's be honest and a couple of those points you know in that top 10 were very consistent with my childhood which is
Starting point is 00:04:52 work work work work work you know you don't get given anything for free when things get tough you wake up an hour earlier you go to bed an hour later. Everything is resolved by hard work and winning is everything. Don't ever let anyone tell you that taking part or losing is acceptable. The only reason you play, the only reason you're in business is to win. And I'm not saying necessarily this is for everyone. This is just a way that I was brought up.
Starting point is 00:05:21 So, you know, he always put a lot of pressure on me to perform and to succeed. The thing is for me growing up was, I grew up around boxing since I was seven years old. My dad was a Hall of Fame promoter. He was a very influential and well-known figure in the UK. And I was always Barry's boy. My dad's Barry Hearn, right?
Starting point is 00:05:42 So everyone knew me as Barry's boy. No one knew my name. And growing up at 13, 14, 15, I quite liked that because like, I was like, you know, my dad is, you know, we've got Nazeem Hamad, we got Lennox Lewis. We've got all these guys my dad represents and I'm in the corner and I'm walking out with them with the belts. And I probably struggled a little bit with my own identity, you know, and I wanted to be a star, I wanted to be a star
Starting point is 00:06:05 I wanted to be the successful businessman I wanted to be a winner and I grew up around sports sport molded my personalities All of my my best assets and my best qualities were built around sport not through education And that's why I'm very passionate about it in the UK as well about what it can do for young people but it was win-win-win-win and well about what it can do for young people, but it was win, win, win, win. And that's exactly how I've been brought up. And my, I never wanted to work for my dad because everyone said to me, Oh, you're only going to go and work for your dad.
Starting point is 00:06:33 You're only going to, and it took me about six or seven years working in the sports industry to really realize I had to give my heart and soul to the legacy that he built and. You know, I take the business very personally, you know, it's something that he dedicated his entire life to and made so many sacrifices for and the only way that I can win in life is to be much better than him to take the business to levels that he couldn't take it. And that's our little competition. It doesn't matter whether we're playing ping pong or cricket in the garden. We're always at it. Me and my dad always.
Starting point is 00:07:12 And that's the competitive spirit that he built in me, not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, but will never be at worked by any of my competitors. So let me ask you this. So you, you went away from working with them and then you went back to want to work with them? I never worked for them. When I left college, I just said, so I went out, I wrote to all the big
Starting point is 00:07:31 sports marketing companies, you know, IMG, Advantage International, Octagon, and I said I wanted to be a sports agent. I wanted to represent athletes because I was a failed athlete. I was a good athlete but never good enough to play cricket at a very high level and a few other sports but I was never good enough to go professional. So for me that was the next best thing.
Starting point is 00:07:51 By the way the audience needs to know this. I'm 6'4", he's 6'5". So you're a big guy. In boxing I know you represent Josh, he's 6'8", he's a big dude but promoters you don't find him 6'5". No that's one of the first things that people say to me You know is my size, but you know I Wrote off to all these major sports agencies and you know went for quite a few interviews and one company You know, it's a sort of sat me down looked at my CV said can I ask you a question? Are you any relation to Barry Hearn and I said yes my dad said what you doing here? I said I don't want to work for him. You know, so I got a job there and worked for about six years for two different sports
Starting point is 00:08:30 agencies. I was representing golfers on the European and the PGA tour and the world. Yeah, good. I mean, I built a very successful department within the agency. I just you know, and this is something that resonates with me now. My heart was in the business, but my soul was in the family business. You know, I sort of looked at what my dad went through and it took him many years, by the way, to to be successful and took us 40 years to be at the level
Starting point is 00:08:55 that we're at now as a business. And I just felt like if I'm bleeding, you know, sweat and tears, I should be doing it. When did you go back to him? When did you go back and say, let's run together? In my sort of mid to late 20s. What year would that be? I'm 45 now, so you're talking about about 20 years ago.
Starting point is 00:09:13 Is this after the heart attack or is this pre-? Yeah, he's had a few actually. This was after his heart attack. I'm talking about the one that he almost lost everything, bankruptcy, I think it's 02 when this happened. Yeah, I mean, that was a period of period of you know various different things going wrong obviously a terrible economic time in the UK as well but for many years his business was was up down I mean he's you know he's a he's a very different to me in the respect of
Starting point is 00:09:39 he's a he's a chance taker you know and but sometimes when you have nothing it's easier to take John I want to show clip because the audience has to know how your dad is right can you play that clip I found earlier this one right here I just can watch this on repeat go and play this clip go for this thing with my children about I love them so much but when it comes down to it are they gonna be good enough in this world you know when dad's not there I mean Eddie's a great example I can't believe how he's turned out he's a credit to me and what he does and he's got a tremendous work ethic and he doesn't need to have
Starting point is 00:10:09 and yet there's something inside and that's what everyone's got to find. They've got to find that inner strength that takes them past ordinary people if they want to be special. What were the most important characteristics that you would have demonstrated or nurtured in him? I think it's just lessons. I mean, everything in our house is competitive. I played table tennis with my grandchildren on a Sunday. I don't let them win a point. Not a point. They win a point, they've won a point themselves.
Starting point is 00:10:33 Every now and again, that's a, can't you let us win one? But it's getting closer and it's only a matter of time. And I was like that with Eddie, you know, we'd play cricket. I wouldn't hold back. I bowled flat out to him, no matter what age he was. We're gonna be in this game, we'll find out. I had famously took him down to gym and we had what was supposed to be a proper three
Starting point is 00:10:48 round fire. He dropped me twice in the second round. We never had to see that. Do you remember that? Yeah. People, that was in the paper in the UK. Like people that had a real mixed response. Like it's not, it's quite unusual, but actually when you think about it, it's not. So he or I was quite flash as a kid, right? 14, 15, 16, because of how I grew up. And I boxed a little bit as an amateur, had like a couple of fights, no good, but game. And he always said to me, when you get to 18, I'm going to take you down to gym. We're going to get the gloves on and we're going to spa and I'm going to give you a pasting and I'm going to show you the difference from where I came from
Starting point is 00:11:29 to where you came from. He's a street guy. Yeah. And that's what it's going to be all about. I said, yeah, fair enough. Anyway, I got to 16 and I was like six foot one, you know, already quite a size, how big is he? He's, he's about the same.
Starting point is 00:11:42 Six, one. And he sort of said, look said I think we should bring it forward So I was like, all right, look, I don't mind and I'll never really forget it because we went to the gym where he had his Fighters train and everyone was watching and we put the gloves on quite small for sparring as well Yeah and the bell went and I just saw him come out and he sort of backed me up in the corner and I Covered up and I looked at his face and his teeth, you know, and his gum shield was like,
Starting point is 00:12:08 and he was just raining them in around the side of my head. And I thought, he ain't playing, do you know what I mean? And I'm taking him, I'm taking him, and after like, cause he wasn't as fit, and then I think it was the second round, you know, it was quite competitive and he really started to tire. And we got up close and I just lifted him up to the body and he
Starting point is 00:12:26 took a knee and I'm like looking at him on the floor and he's like, you know, the guys are counting the count, he gets up at eight and then I walked him down, backed him up and done him and he turned over, you know, rolling around on the floor, he's out. And the next day it was all in the papers because when he was doing some interviews about some show he had he was telling everyone like it was the greatest day of his life oh my son you wouldn't believe what my son did to me I would have been embarrassed you know I'm saying that my son beat me up he's like oh he's proper you know I get that and but we did it we did an
Starting point is 00:13:02 interview with Pierce Morgren recently and he was talking about it and he was like look I gotta be honest this is not not really normal. He's like what's what's the matter with you? Of course, here's the same. It's not yeah, and my dad's saying what are you talking about? Of course? It's normal Yeah, you know all this would be very quite frowned upon and he said, you know that that was his way And like he said about the table chance like literally Against my daughter who is 15, he's diving. He beat her 21-19 the other week, right? It was so close and he was sweating, diving around and when he won, yes, like running around the celebrations and she's like looking at him
Starting point is 00:13:40 going, Grandad, are you, he's like, you're so close. I reckon a couple more weeks and you're gonna get me. And it's not for everyone, but that's what built me. So a couple of reasons why I'm asking you this question is because I have a son who is like your relationship, you and your father's relationship. And by the way, both of you guys are Gemini's. Correct.
Starting point is 00:14:03 Your eighth, he's 19th, June 8th and June 19 and June 19 I'm a Libra my son is a Libra And he's a psycho competitor and God forbid if we play and we I don't let him beat me and nothing but not nothing And when he loses it is not a pretty side when he loses when you lost were you upset always? I was I was yeah, I soaked I hate losing. Yeah, I hate it You know and as you become a little bit older and a bit more successful, like things change a little bit, but especially as a kid playing sports, bad, bad loser, bad loser.
Starting point is 00:14:31 You were? Yeah. Like, and that's okay. I always say to my fighters, you know, when AJ loses or anything like that, give him a little, give him a day or two and I'll sit down and say, are you okay? You know, and they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm okay. Does it hurt? And they're like, what do you mean? I said, is it, is it killing you that you lost? He's like,
Starting point is 00:14:52 yeah. I said, good. Cause he's got a really fucking hurt bad. Like you got it. It's gotta or it's gonna. It's got to. It's got, if it doesn't hurt, how do you get back into train? And that's when it's time to maybe look at your future. If it doesn't eat you up, if you don't virtually cry yourself to sleep, if you're not struggling to sleep, if you're not replaying that fight back in your head and feeling the pain of defeat, maybe it's time. You ever had one when you sat across one and you're like, this guy's done? Yeah, loads of times where even after the fight, you go back to the hotel and you can just see a fighter, you know, one of my best friends in the sport guy called Darren Barker,
Starting point is 00:15:29 who's my first world champion, won the world middleweight title in Atlantic city. He had a lot of injuries in his career. His next fight, that was like the pinnacle of winning the world title. No one expected him to do it. And then the next fight, he took a big payday against Felix Sturm in Germany. He had bad, bad hips. And during the the fight he got injured and he got stopped in I think two rounds. And we went back to the hotel and he sat back and his, I think his mum bought him a beer and he just, he just, I just looked at him sit back and go, and he just took a sip of his
Starting point is 00:15:58 beer and I looked at him and I went, you're done, aren't you? And he went, yeah. Have you ever had it where they thought they're continuing, but you know, no, this guy's done well, you got to tell them to their face. Yeah, that's the hardest thing. You know, a fighter will always want to fight. I mean, so easy to say just one more, you know, but in the fight game, just one more can be devastating in many ways. And I just feel like sometimes legacy can be kept intact, especially if you're Anthony
Starting point is 00:16:23 Joshua. I mean, he just lost by knockout for the world heavyweight title. It's a fight where he was a slight favorite for and now everyone's on him because this is the British way. You know, he went on a run of four wins and everyone's like, he's back, he's better than ever. And then he loses for the world heavyweight title. He should retire. He's done. You know, and that moment, that's when you really got to think, you got to see the desire, but boxing's a little bit different. You know, you've got to that's when you really got to think, you got to see the desire. But boxing's a little bit different. You know, you got to be physically 100%.
Starting point is 00:16:47 If you start fading, you start taking too many shots, if you're not, you know, as robust as you used to be, especially in the heavyweight division becomes very dangerous. And that's all down to relationships with the fighters to make sure you can have those honest conversations. Because when I feel like it's time for him, I will be saying, mate, and I believe when I say that, I think he'll go, I'm done because he will listen to a few around him that he will always want to fight. Because imagine how scary it is. You've dedicated your whole life to something.
Starting point is 00:17:20 Boxing is so regimental and this is why it saves people from certain environments and situations because it actually gets their life in a structure So you wake up in the morning you do your run you go back to bed you go back to the gym You spar 12 rounds you come back you get your physio you go to sleep you wake up tomorrow You do the same thing and when that leaves your life Fighters really struggle after that because what what else I mean, that's all they do and The buzz of fighting the walking out in front of 90,000 all of a sudden that goes in your life And that's why it's got to be that void has got to be filled with something that you have a passion for You know, maybe that's been a trainer. Maybe that's staying in the game is
Starting point is 00:18:02 Is there a way to? Size them up like for example, you know, in football, NFL, there was this guy, what was the guy, quarterback from the Oakland Raiders, something rustled, this guy gets a big contract, boom, he's done. You don't see any confirm. Jermarcus Russell, right? And in the NBA, there's certain guys,
Starting point is 00:18:21 you pay them, it's over with. Baseball, this guy got paid, nothing happens after. It's like, what happened to you, right? How do you, when these guys all of a sudden, like some guys said, you know, Conor McGregor's best fights was pre-him becoming rich. And one of the quotes by your dad is what? It says, you will run a better business and life
Starting point is 00:18:38 if you think you're poor, right? The poor mentality, the broke mentality, not poor mentality, but you like, keep that hunger. Do you shape their mindset? Like I remember when we sold our insurance company and we got a few hundred million dollars and I'm sitting there with my wife and we're talking to Monica and I said,
Starting point is 00:18:51 babe, life's about to change in a big way. You're no longer a millionaire. We have money. I'm still gonna work the next day. And I don't like it if you just wanna go to the spa every day and just go hang out. I'm not attracted to that. And you have to know, I'm still going 80 hours a week, right?
Starting point is 00:19:08 And we're having this conversation, and I said, family's gonna call you, everyone's gonna want money, everyone's gonna tell you this, everyone's gonna, and we're having this three and a half hour conversation, and it's like a moment of joy, and you're emotional, but at the same time it's like, hey, I'm not losing my edge, I'm going on a 40 year run.
Starting point is 00:19:25 I'm having a conversation with her. And my wife, till today, five days a week, she's at the office. Every day she comes in the office with me and boom, works hard herself till today. Kudos to her. But while you're going through this and you're picking one of your fighters,
Starting point is 00:19:38 how do you shape their mindset? When you know this guy's about to make the kind of money he's been waiting for his entire life, he hasn't made it yet. I'm talking real money. How do you have that conversation with him to make the kind of money he's been waiting for his entire life, he hasn't made it yet, I'm talking real money. How do you have that conversation with him to see how he's gonna be the next thing when he sees the money in the bank account?
Starting point is 00:19:50 I mean, that's about personal relationship, but a lot of that has to come from within. There's very few characters and very few competitors and athletes that don't change when the legacy and the money hit. Probably my best example of that is Canelo Alvarez. Right, there's a guy who's got hundreds of millions, right, used to sell ice pops on the street of Guadalajara, came from absolutely nothing and now is making him
Starting point is 00:20:17 40-50 million dollars a fight, doesn't even need to fight anymore. He trains and AJ, but he trains with the same hunger that he had when he was fighting a four round fight at 17 years of age. What do you think he's in pursuit of? What's he in pursuit of? I just think they're winners. I just think they're winners. I just think the ones we all know, the key word, consistency. That's the one thing that's always going to provide you with success if you work hard enough and if you've got talent you're unbeatable The only thing that's going to stop Canelo Alvarez is father time That's all and eventually it will catch up with him. But how do you especially boxing? You know boxing such a tough sport like you know today. I was up at Delray Beach
Starting point is 00:21:01 I was watching our 140 pound light well well-to-weight world champion, Liam Sparrow, spar 10 rounds, right? No money in the spa, just the preparation. All out war. You know what I mean? Like this wasn't someone who was like knocking some balls around a call. This was a fight in a gym with no one watching. At what point do you come from nothing build
Starting point is 00:21:25 three or four hundred million you got your properties ever and you go I want those hard yeah I wanted those hards yeah hit me and it's like what point do you have to walk away I don't need to do this anymore you know and that's where you've got to keep that relationship because when that hunger goes you've got to get him out would you put Mayweather in that same league as can't my weber just love money maybe theyweather loves money. So Canelo, you're saying Canelo's not about... Canelo loves money, but Mayweather was different.
Starting point is 00:21:50 Mayweather was a guy that was spending, spending, spending, spending. He loved money. He loved racking money up. He had a passion for the sport. Passion is key to everything. Now you talk about your wife going into the office, there's a reason for that. She loves to do it.
Starting point is 00:22:05 You can't, you know, it's not, it's not because, you know, I'm sure there's an obligation and you know, it's a team and all that kind of stuff, but there's a drive and there's a passion and there's a fire. Otherwise, like this is with me, I work all day, every day, no breaks ever. I love what I do. And if I didn't love what I do, yeah, you sort of, you keep going. But not with the same intensity, not with the same passion.
Starting point is 00:22:27 Yeah, fascinating. Going back to these guys, Canelo, Mayweather, when you see something like the Jake Paul and the Mike Tyson thing coming up right now, I've heard you make comments about it already, and I even remember your interview with Jake. Matter of fact, if you have that clip, Robrop and I love the way you're doing it and you know what I love about this clip, well let me first have the audience watch this. This is
Starting point is 00:22:53 Eddie, you're telling Jake he's average and you're trying to tell him that, trust me, me telling you you're average is a compliment and he's having a hard time with it. Go ahead and play this clip-rop. One minute, how do you even assess how good I good I was well because I said I didn't know and actually you call me average after you are Manage, but you call me after one minute of my first professional night. No, but you're still average You know you is not true. I just beat a five-time world UFC you don't even know you don't know my ability though. That's true. That's true. You don't that's I don't know where you might go I just give you where I think you're at which I'm entitled to which is
Starting point is 00:23:29 Average average is very complementary to you. Yeah Are you trying to get under a skin at the time is it yeah You know in that kind of arena One it's about entertainment. Yeah. Two, I'm being honest, he's very average as a fighter, as a professional. But what I was trying to sort of explain to him was as a professional fighter, someone that's dedicated their life to the sport from most people from the
Starting point is 00:24:01 ages of seven or eight, you started boxing at 24. You are average in that field. That's an unbelievable achievement. I'm not average at boxing. I'm terrible. So you're so much better than me and so many other fighters who have dedicated their lives to the sport. And then after a while, it's just about fucking with him a little bit. And me and Jake, we've've got big defamation case against him at the moment and this week My fighter Katie Taylor great female fighter of all time is fighting his fighter Amanda Serrano on that undercut Is this a million dollar bet you guys made you guys that end up me? No, that was before yeah Well, I won the fight, but he didn't apparently make the bet, you know, whatever
Starting point is 00:24:46 But we won the first fight. This is the rematch this Friday and it's on the undercard of the Jake Paul This the one in Dallas. Correct, which is a bit awkward because he doesn't really want me there and I've been quite critical of the main event But the opportunity came for my fighter to fight on the undercard for a lot of money and I wasn't gonna You know hold her back. Now, can he say you can't come or no you can go to… Contractually not really. I mean they've not been overly helpful with access for me and you know I'm exclusive to The Zone, so is Katie Taylor and I had to tell The Zone you can't not let her take this opportunity.
Starting point is 00:25:23 This is on Netflix but part of the agreement agreement gentlemen's agreement was that I mean they wouldn't want me doing it anyway but I won't be pushing the show on their behalf and you know they don't like the fact that I've been critical about the fight but it's just I'm honest I'm not gonna you know brown nose anyone I'm gonna give you a straight and I don't like it I don't know I'm a boxing purist boxing is a massive part of my life and I don't want to see a 58 year old Mike Tyson fight. No, it's dangerous. And, you know, people talk about, Oh, there could be some, you know,
Starting point is 00:25:53 maybe there's an agreement between them that this will happen. That will happen. Now you've got 14 ounce gloves, two minute rounds. You know, I don't know. I don't want to see Jake Paul beat Mike Tyson at 58, but many will and I get it. When Tyson fought Roy Jones, who do you think was going to take it? Did you have an opinion on it? I mean, to be honest with you, Roy Jones is absolutely shot to pieces and he's been fighting for way too long. But everybody in boxing knows that guy.
Starting point is 00:26:25 So when they both get in the ring, but how long ago was that? Four years ago? But I tell you, I couldn't believe that he was standing up. I couldn't believe he, by the way, 1.6 million pay per view, $80 million in revenue will fight between those two. Wow.
Starting point is 00:26:40 That's what it says right there on the bottom. That's it, that's hearsay. With three WGP examinations and a judges' results score to call, the fight sold over one point. Can you go to the link to see who wrote it? You're saying that's not true. We report. I would say yeah, I would say that's a hundred percent Not true really a lot of the time you get I mean that could be a global number That could be a replay number a lot of the time every time someone fights on pay-per-view The numbers that come out are all over the place
Starting point is 00:27:03 You know you got the haters within the industry that will be feeding the media with low ball numbers, and then you've got the people involved with the fight, feeding, I've done it. Do you know what I mean? Feeding real big numbers to try and get the message across that it was a huge success that fight, I believe took place on Triller, um, but But you know 1.6 million No, I don't think so, but you know that that would also be a global number So maybe maybe a million buyers, but I don't believe I mean certainly not in the US market, but you know
Starting point is 00:27:36 It was a while ago now, wasn't it? I mean, yeah, you're right. It was 2024 years ago Yeah, yeah, so so this fight the the for you the way you sound alike you're saying Jake's gonna take this one. I'd be astonished if he didn't I mean You got a young guy, right? Who's average but can fight a little bit sure But the one thing I will always respect him for is he's dedicated himself to the craft now for four or five years Okay, so he's training properly, he's doing proper training camps. He's definitely improving. Punches pretty hard, like physical guy.
Starting point is 00:28:11 And then you've got Mike Tyson who's 58 years of age. What you have to understand is Mike Tyson retired from boxing about 25 years ago. When he did, he was completely spent. That was 25 years ago. That's pretty wild thinking about it. I mean, 58 years old. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:28:28 You know, I mean, I'm 45. I think you're 46. Yeah. We feel like, don't we? We're still there, don't we? This guy's 15 years or 14 years older than me. And like if I went in there against Jake Paul now, he'd probably demolish me. I mean, I'm not Mike Tyson but like as you know far of a time there's no replacement like you could say listen people say oh but people are buying into the fact that it's like yeah but it's Mike Tyson and
Starting point is 00:28:53 surely still carries the power and like is there any chance Mike could drop there's a chance in every form of boxing and Mike Tyson is a big guy he's a former world heavyweight champion but the speed and the power and the like, you know, listen, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see it. I'd love to wake up and say... How much is he getting paid for it, by the way? I don't know. I have no idea. I mean, it's not a pay-per-view fight. It's quite interesting. His subscription only on Netflix, which is great. It's going to do huge numbers. I would say 10 million.
Starting point is 00:29:20 10 million? Yeah, I would say 10 million. So some of the guys that are still fighting, it's purely a money thing. They need to make the money to make the money. But a lot of them, Patrick, you know, a lot of fighters have been, I mean, probably the greatest fighter, the greatest example of a fighter that's been misrepresented and abused is Mike Tyson. You know, the money that was generated in his career, the reality is, is probably five
Starting point is 00:29:44 years ago, he was out on money. I mean, he's actually had a good run now doing various bits and pieces, but how can you make hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars and, you know, and that's a very common theme, particularly with fighters in the eighties, like things have changed now, the fights. I always say, and people like our, even my dad, you know, Frank Warren, they really struggle. I say this, every fighter that I represent is my boss.
Starting point is 00:30:09 It doesn't matter if they're in a four round fight on their debut or they're fighting for every belt in the division for a hundred million. I work for them. And it's very difficult for those old school guys to have that same mentality because back in the day, the promoter, you work for the promoter promoter you know that's why people like Don King you know when he was representing Mike Toss and he was the boss Mike did as he's told now it's a complete flick when did it change I would say like Mayweather probably did a lot of it you know Mayweather kind of set the way for a fighters being their
Starting point is 00:30:41 own bosses you know no I control the revenue because that for me is the purest form of the business. You give a fighter a purse, right? You're fighting for the world middleweight title. Giving you a million dollars. You look at it with your team, you look at the deal, you accept it. When the fighter gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, you move to an open book policy which for me is the perfect structure to have a great relationship with a fighter.
Starting point is 00:31:09 I did it with Anthony Joshua, many other fighters. You sit down, you know, most of the time it's with the guys that really understand the business. Floyd, this is where Floyd comes in. You look at the revenue, projected revenue, revenue you know that exists, the gate, you know that's selling out 100%, the pay per view is always subjective to the night, but you know if you're a big name fighter, the region it's going to be in, closed circuit television, a commercial sponsor, the international rights, all the revenue, and you say to the fighter, this is the costs of the show, okay,
Starting point is 00:31:39 this is the undercard, this is the venue hire, hotels, etc. Etc. Etc. You cap the costs it's an open book the net profit of the show goes to the fighter and the promoter takes 20% and You never because what happens is a funny of net. Yes 20 of net not growth No net because you agree the costs. Okay, so let me ask you a question So if it starts at 20 million, how much is gonna end up being cost? I mean, you know If you're talking about the cost of a show could be anywhere between one and a half and three million dollars to run a show So let me ask you then if it's if it's the guys getting paid six million. It doesn't matter the one and a half is
Starting point is 00:32:17 Fairly consistent sometimes but maybe the cost of the undercard would decrease if it's a mega show You want other world title fights on, et cetera, et cetera. Ticket prices are through the roof. You want to deliver a great night of boxing. It all depends. But generally that concept is only for the huge names. Canelo, Floyd, AJ, you know, these kinds of names. The others might just say, I just want my purse.
Starting point is 00:32:40 Just, I don't want to look at any numbers. Just tell me how much I'm getting. The problem with that is they never, know they walk into a venue they go how much money is he making you know how many pay-per-view buys did it do and then like that someone says it did two million buys it did what the promoters made 50 million that's why I love the open book because it's so transparent you know and we I'm happy with those margins you know you talk about AJ these guys making you know 40 50 60 million a fire you know and sometimes that 20% will decrease over time when a fire starts making more money because they might say to you actually 20% is a lot
Starting point is 00:33:17 of money and most the time I go yeah I mean I think we're responsible for a lot of your success but I also think you're right It is a lot of money. So moving forward is 15 You know, I think you've got to be fair and you've got to be honest and you've got to be transparent That's how you build long-term relationships with talent. What is the role you play? So because the art of a promoter I'm fascinated by promoters What's the role of a promoter because it's got to be different than you got the agent, you got the manager, what role is the promoter playing? What are you doing with me? I'm a fighter, what kind of conversations are we having? So many different levels to it. I mean taking me aside for now, the company, the
Starting point is 00:33:58 business, you know, when you're talking about away from the shows and you're pitching to an athlete, you've just turned professional, right? You need to be guided in the correct way. You need to have regular activity, five or six fights a year. You're going to have six, six round fights a year. You're going to be able to build your profile. You're going to be able to make sure you're made, the matches are made against the right opposition. We're going to build you internationally. We're going to put you in America, in London, in Saudi Arabia, in Mexico, and we're going to give you all the experience you need to mold you into a championship fighter. Now, the business, when you talk about what is their role, absolutely everything from the TV deals, you know. Their role, meaning the promoter's role.
Starting point is 00:34:41 The promotional company. Not agent, not manager, not these guys. The manager's role is really to deal with the promoter. I've got to be honest with you. For me, I always feel like if you've got an honest promoter, the manager's job is sometimes a little bit redundant, but it's a middle ground to push people. Do you guys not get along?
Starting point is 00:34:58 Do managers and promoters typically, who has fights with who? Who doesn't? Friction is where? So a promoter's job is to pay the right money for the fighter as in for the show and for the fighter to make the business work Right the managers don't give a fuck about a promotional business They just want as much money as possible for their fighter got a lot of them get it a lot of them Don't and the the fascinating thing and that's why boxing is such a tough business
Starting point is 00:35:23 There are no barriers to entry in boxing. So tomorrow you could wake up and go, no, I like that chat with Eddie Hearn. I think I'm going to manage fighters. Right. And next thing you're phoning me up saying, can I come and see you? Because guess what? I'm now representing this guy, this guy and this guy.
Starting point is 00:35:39 And I'm like, okay. And we have a meeting. You go, I've been thinking, I think these guys should get $10 million. I'm like, on what planet? But I think that's you know, Saudi Arabia and this and that and you know, and now I'm saying I'm not I'll show you the PNL for the show. And you tell me how he should get $10 million. I'm not really interested in that. I just you know, and that's like the frustration of the business. It's not a normal business. You're not dealing with people who have gone through the educational process about a P&L in boxing Do to me. Yeah, just dealing with someone who said I don't care what it says I want to tell you did you see the interview with the rock when I asked them about the
Starting point is 00:36:16 Negotiation he did with Vince McMahon and he said something so interesting. I said so Vince McMahon He built a 10 billion out of company, what was it negotiating with him? And he said, how long is it? It's too long, but I'll just tell you what he said. He says, one day I go to Vince, I say, Vince, you know, I've been doing great and I want to get paid. He says, okay, great, what do you want to get paid? He says, what does Stone Cold Austin get paid, Steve?
Starting point is 00:36:40 He says, a million. He says, I want to get paid $2 million. He says, can I ask you how you came up with that number? So he says, the way I came up with that number is I just want to get paid twice as much as what the number one guy's getting paid. And he says, okay, fair, but do you mind if we do something? And the Rock says what?
Starting point is 00:36:57 He says, do you mind if we take the next two or three months, you work with the CFO in accounting and see exactly how this thing works out So the rocks is fine So he says it took a few weeks I go and spend time with the CFO and the accountants and then I realized I can't ask for two million So he comes back and he says look three weeks later. They have the follow-up meeting. He says so what do you want to do? He says well, listen, I'll be happy with the million. He says no, let me tell you what I want to do I want to tie it for you, you'll get your million,
Starting point is 00:37:26 but if you perform and sell these out, I wanna pay you above and beyond. So the Rox is fine. Your goes by, Vince sits down with him. He says, so, what do you think you made last year? Says, I don't know, about a million bucks. He says, no, you made 15 million. He said, what?
Starting point is 00:37:41 He says, that's when I realized the game, the business aspect of the business, right? More I got involved, I realized the more I can sell tickets, the more I can move. They make money, I'll make money. But you're saying managers don't think like that. That's the problem. You know, sometimes a manager's talking to you about talent
Starting point is 00:37:56 and they don't sell tickets, they don't drive subscriptions. And that's a major problem. So what risk do you take? Do you take a risk and say, I don't know if the, if I'm no matter what, I got to pay this guy 10 million whether I sell a single pay per view, if I sell 2 million, do we want to take this risk? And how do you make that decision?
Starting point is 00:38:12 Timing, positioning the marketplace, you know, position with your new broadcaster, so many different things. You know, the way you're feeling that day, you know, the punt that you want to take, the position your business is in in the industry. I mean, so many different things. Most of the time, we will make decisions without emotion. That's key, based on the reality of the numbers. And my dad's a chartered accountant,
Starting point is 00:38:37 one of the youngest ever qualified. And he has drummed into me since day one. Numbers, numbers, numbers. He was a snooker's guy. He was a, yeah, yeah. Created all the major snookers. guy. He was a snooker. Yeah, yeah, created all the major snookers. Wasn't he like the chairman of the board till like 2010 or something like that? He was the, yeah.
Starting point is 00:38:50 But you know, I think, I mean, I don't know, I'm sure you've seen the McMahon show on Netflix. I mean, he made me feel very normal, you know. But again, you talk about that winning mentality. I mean, dangerous at that level because it becomes, I mean, winning is always everything to me. What is the biggest losing fight for you business-wise? Were you walked away and said,
Starting point is 00:39:13 shit, we lost millions of this one. So it was Anthony Joshua just lost at Madison Square Garden to Andy Ruiz. It was a huge upset. Like we had the number one fighter in the world. I remember. Yeah. Jarell Miller failed drug test three weeks before the fight. We didn't have an opponent.
Starting point is 00:39:32 We wanted a real fight because we were sold out. Ruiz was this fat guy, but he was a very good fighter. And we went with Ruiz and AJ wasn't right anyway. Anyway, get stopped at Madison Square Garden. And I'm like, fuck fuck and it's like now Mattrum oh herns in trouble Mattrum what are they gonna do with our AJ blah blah blah blah blah and I'm like right we need to bounce back the team are like what do you mean I said Lomachenko right one of the great fighters at the time when I say lose I, I mean money. You lost money on that?
Starting point is 00:40:05 Yeah, no, no, no. I'm talking about what's coming now. I said, bring Lomachenko to London. We've got a lightweight called Luke Campbell. Lomachenko is one of the greatest fighters. He's never fought in the UK. We'll sell out the 02, do massive pay-per-view numbers, get the deal from Aram, tell me how much I've got to pay him.
Starting point is 00:40:24 And they offered us a deal to bring Campbell to America and we would have made a million dollars by taking him to America. I went fuck that, we'd do it in London because we're going to bounce back after AJ. Anyway, we sold out but the pay per view flopped, flopped. So we probably lost a million bucks there as well, but also the swing of taking him to America. And it was just, that was one of my big blessings because it was like, just don't ever, ever make decisions
Starting point is 00:40:55 based off emotion again. Do you know what I mean? Calm, you know, and then that's what experience brings over time. And you know, my dad's actually always takes the mickey out of me for that for that show you know and So does if my CEO as well and a few others Remember when you decided to bring Lomachenko to the UK and he's an amazing fighter, but that was just like yeah
Starting point is 00:41:15 Why do you think it in cell? How did it not convert because he? There's there's a you have to understand the business there's a big difference between the hardcore fight fan and the casual audience and the guys that can interact and sell in the casual sports fan market are the guys that drive the huge huge pay-per-views Canelo Alvarez Anthony Joshua Floyd Mayweather he has he captivates Lomachenko is a hero of the hardcore boxing fanatics but that's a tiny tiny percentage of the ecosystem. So a question for you when I hear what some people say about you you
Starting point is 00:41:50 know Frank Warren Eddie talks a good game but he doesn't always deliver he's more interested in being a celebrity than a promoter. Simon Jordan Eddie Hearn is more about self-promotion than the sport and so he's turning it into a circus right. Bob Arum Eddie is a young guy who thinks he knows everything. He's got a lot to learn about the business. And then a lot of guys say he's all about entertainment, he's all about entertainment, all the stuff that they say, right? How much of it today, like our media company's name is Valuetainment. On election night, we're going up against ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox, everybody. We had more people
Starting point is 00:42:26 watch our podcasts on election night than anybody else worldwide. Everybody was blown away by it. They're like, why would people watch this year? This is the data that came out showing up the report and we looked at this. Rob texted me and says, Pat, look what we're ranking. This is that night, okay? We had us ahead of everybody, right? And by the way, we're a bunch of amateurs. I'm not in this space. It's not like we do this for a living. It's a podcast. We've only been doing this for four years.
Starting point is 00:42:50 We had 283,000 people concurrent watching the podcast all night with us. Here's what the difference was. We had 2,000 people in a hangar, new property that we bought. Next time you come here, we'll do the podcast at the other property right by the airport. We had entertainment, we had all these shows and we're talking about a serious issue, which is what? Politics. How much you think ticket sales, selling it, is about the showman, the storytelling, the entertainment versus the matchup. What percentage, if you were to say, look man, if I can get the controversy behind it,
Starting point is 00:43:29 the story behind it, the this, the that, like you know the movie, what is it, Warrior, when you got Tom Hardy in it, he's like, man, I don't know if you watch this movie, I watch this movie so many times, you're like, and the final story has it, it's the two brothers facing each other, father, da da da da da, Nick Nolte,
Starting point is 00:43:45 that scene in the hotel room with Tom Hardy shows up, just can't stand his dad, but he's drunk and he's hanging on to him, and you see the fight, breaks his arm, and the fight's such an emotional movie, but there's a story behind it, right? How much of it is entertainment, story, versus the actual matchup of the fighters? Virtually all of it.
Starting point is 00:44:04 I mean, because what I said about that hardcore fight, you make a great fight. This small audience, hardcore fight fans, they're the loudest by the way as well. They're all in. 5%, is that 5%? About that. Okay.
Starting point is 00:44:18 This is the casual one. Oh my God, that big. What I am, you talked earlier about, the reason I said take me away from the equation Yeah, it's because that's what the team do what I do is. I'm a storyteller. I build the narrative I make you buy in to the story and the viewer Yeah, and one of the reasons all those people say the things about me is about ten years ago I looked at the UFC business. I looked at WWE and I thought,
Starting point is 00:44:45 what have they got in common? Dana White and Vince McMahon. That's the voice. That's the figurehead. That's the guy in the sport. When I say to you, UFC, what do you say to me? Dana White. When I say to you, WWE, what do you say? You say Vince McMahon. So why can't I build my own brand and my own? Personality and character with in boxing that you're not always talent-led and the great things about Those businesses WWE or TKO now and you know UFC same part of the same group The brand and Dana is so strong that when they go into new markets, there's already the profile There's already the brand recognition is already's already the respect from the customer. And that's what we did.
Starting point is 00:45:28 We're the only global promotional company in the world for boxing in multiple markets. And every time I go to a new country, they know who I am. Now they want to know who's fighting, but me being there and boxing being there and matrim being there is enough to penetrate that market and that's why UFC and WW have been so successful. So back to your question. That's what I am. I'm a salesman I've been salesman cells 14 years of age. It's my greatest asset. It may be one of my very few talents But that's what I do. I get out there. I'm the only promoter in the world That runs their own press conferences. I don't have members of the media
Starting point is 00:46:10 Introducing me to say a few words. I'll run the whole fucking thing. It's my show I'm the greatest showman. So our show is called on Netflix coming up. That's my job I never have any notes every promoter will go up there. You see him in their piece of paper We just want to say this Saturday at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas, we've got eight fights. Fuck that. I've never had one note in my 20 years of promoting boxing. I go up there. Most of the time, I don't even know what I'm going to say. I've got 16 fighters sitting up here, from four round fights to world championship fights. I'll turn up, I'll do my interviews and the live feed, the floor manager will go, we're going live in three, two, one.
Starting point is 00:46:52 I've absolutely no idea what I'm about to say. And I'll tell you the entire card, the entire fighters, their entire records, their entire stories, all within one 45 minute show. And that's because I live and breathe it every single day. And I'm the only promoter in the world that does that. The last promoter that did that was Don King. Probably one of the greatest promoters of all time. Not in terms of his ethics, but in terms of the ability to know there was a show in town. Don King would make you know.
Starting point is 00:47:28 That guy would go around with a megaphone on the streets of New York screaming and shouting. And that's what it is. It's a dying breed of promoter. Let me ask you. So Pops, 10 rules for life. Number 10. When you need a number nine, avoid being a secret. If you're good, then admit it.
Starting point is 00:47:48 If you're great, then shout it from the rooftops. You just presented yourself as extremely confident that not just you're great, I mean, do you see yourself as a better promoter than any of these guys minus Don? You think it's you and Don? On a different level. You think you're on a different level? Different level. Because they can't... Bob Arum. Bob Arum's 93 years. The thing that Bob will have me on
Starting point is 00:48:12 right now as we sit here and talk is longevity. And now you've got to respect the hustle. He's 93 years old. You know, people keep saying to me, how much longer do you want to do this? You know, you're on a road, you're doing this. I said, well, I fucking love it. Well, you know, if I stopped doing this, I'd be miserable probably. But I don't know whether that's 50, 60, 70. Bob's 93. Are you mad? But Bob did Thriller in Manila, Rumble in the Jungle. I mean, you know, I can't in terms terms of legacy I can't yet compete with Bob Aaron
Starting point is 00:48:46 because that comes over time but what I can do is in terms of ability, in terms of selling, in terms of promoting, in terms of engaging the audience and spinning a narrative you know and I don't care to say I'm the greatest promoter of all time because that's what I truly believe and life is about confidence as well. What do you want me to do wake up and go I'm the greatest promoter of all time because that's what I truly believe and life is about confidence as well. What do you want me to do? Wake up and go on average, you know, oh no, I'm okay but I'm not as good as that guy. No, I'm better than you all and I'll show it now in this press conference. Fucking turn the mics on and go live, you know, and that when you live and you breathe it, you have the confidence to be able to do that kind of stuff. I can talk any time about any
Starting point is 00:49:25 fight any fight any situation and of course the bigger you get and the bigger your business gets the less fear you have anyway. So you end up just being completely honest because you don't give a fuck. You know I care about the business I care but but really I don't care what people think I don't care what people say I want to create storylines I want to create narrative I don't want to be a clown I don't care what people say. I want to create storylines, I want to create narrative, I don't want to be a clown. You know, we're running a hugely successful company, but you've got to be talking about us. You know, the reason people want to watch your show is because you're creating narrative.
Starting point is 00:49:56 You're creating opinions. You're interacting with the audience. That's the difference. You know, you look down that list that you just presented and you've got NBC at what, I don't know 30th, you know a major major broadcaster that's Institutionalized in the world of elections and politics and you've got three times the viewership on a feed You know, that's where the world's changed completely I want to interact and I was one of the first promoters of that generation to do that on social media
Starting point is 00:50:23 And I was not lucky but my timing was good because Aaron wasn't gonna get out on Twitter and start interacting with fight fans. Frank Warren was you know didn't know what the app was you know. By the way you just brought me to two questions here but I'll go to the first one first. Don King when you when you look at him what made him special but have you guys had interaction together? I mean I don't like the way Don King does business You know, I mean there's been a lot said over the years, but he was a pure promoter. I still watch him now
Starting point is 00:50:52 He's 93. He's the same age as Bob. Aaron, you know, he lives down the street Yeah, and Hollywood right? Yeah, and like he's not he's not like still promoting does a few shows But even when he switches it on I watched an interview with him the other day. I mean, he's not, his health's not in an amazing place, but I just watched an interview with him the other day because it's 50 years since the Rumble in the Jungle. And he's trying to sell a show to Saudi Arabia to do a 50 year anniversary of the Rumble in the Jungle.
Starting point is 00:51:20 And I'm actually listening to him going, fuck it, I'd do it. You know, and I'm thinking, he's unbelievable. You know, and I'm thinking he's unbelievable. You know, and I'm thinking, he comes on at first, I'm thinking, oh, here he goes. He's dunking. What's he going to say now? And then at the end of it, I'm looking at it going, you know what Turkey had a shake is that, you know, the guy in Saudi, I think it probably do it.
Starting point is 00:51:38 It'll probably do it. And it's, you know, he carries, he's, you know, he's another guy. He's a massive legacy. What is it though? Is it charm? Is it charisma? Is it little bit off? Is it? A story sales is a transfer of emotion Right, and that's exactly the same when you're selling a fire It doesn't matter if I'm selling you a photocopier and I believe in the photocopier, right? It's got the best filtration system, that paper moves so smoothly to the top
Starting point is 00:52:07 and the ink never runs out and when it does, it tells you on the LED screen, if I've got a piece of shit photocopier that gets jammed all the time and I know that the ink don't run smooth, I can't deliver the same emotion. That's why the product is always important. You can bluff and you can be a great salesman,
Starting point is 00:52:23 but the reality is the emotion that you have in that pitch is actually dependent upon the product that you're representing and the concept that you have. And that, you know, I know, the reason I know that is because if I'm doing an average show, I'll do a press conference, you may not see the difference but I'll feel the difference. You know, when I got a huge show that week I'm just on fire. I sit down at the press conference and I'm blowing off there and you know the tough sells. You know when you've gone to pitch someone you're like fuck. You know sometimes you get it through. Sometimes you sell out the arena. Sometimes you do a great show but you think oh come on. Someone says wow how did he do that? That's
Starting point is 00:53:03 great promotion. Yeah we got away with that one. But then you've oh, come on, someone says, wow, how did he do that? That's great promotion. Yeah, we got away with that one. But then you've got the great product, the great shows. They're the home runs for me. That's the easy work. But actually, the harder work is the tougher sell. And that's more of a challenge. What do you think makes it? What's Dana's gift and what's Vince's gift, in your opinion?
Starting point is 00:53:19 No fear. Dana's. Yeah, no, no regard for what people think. I'm going to give it to you straight, you know, incredibly hard working. I mean, I don't know Vince. I know Dana quite well. He's always been extremely good to me, very hospitable. Vince, from only what I saw in the Netflix, is a lunatic.
Starting point is 00:53:39 But you look at him up again, I mean, he basically said, I'm to be the guy I'm the son the fucking star of the show and I'm not letting the others win AW or whatever that you know when they started out you know and and the thing with Vince unfortunately probably led to his demise is whatever it takes whatever it takes we're gonna win. One of the stories where he's like, you know, his daughter's like, nah, I don't wanna tell the story. So what's the craziest idea your dad ever came up with? I just, I don't wanna tell the story.
Starting point is 00:54:11 And he told the story, remember that? Impregnate his daughter. I mean, this is where it just goes to another level. And it's like, that documentary, I sat there with my jaw open most of the documentary. I couldn't stop watching it. Yeah, unfortunately, and you know, rest is so. When the wrestler died.
Starting point is 00:54:24 Yeah, Owen Hart. And they carried on the show. Yeah. And, you know, they're telling their story about what happened. And he just said, and I had to make the decision, the show must go on. And I went, what? And he said, I would have wanted the show to go on. If it was me. Do you believe him? I just think, I mean, I was trying to think about myself being in that situation in a live event when that happens at the show. I mean, you know how many people he would have overruled for that, to keep that show
Starting point is 00:54:56 on like, because I know my people would be saying to me, Eddie, you have to cancel this show now. You know, but I just, I couldn't believe. How'd you rank that documentary? Unbelievable. I couldn't stop. Unbelievable. Two people texted me, Matt and Sheena Sepala
Starting point is 00:55:14 and another Steve Avetian, I was like, you guys gotta watch. I'm like, listen, I don't have time to sit there and watch a six part. Pat, just start the first one. And then make the decision afterwards. Netflix allows you to watch 1.5. I can watch stuff at 3.0 because I like Spotify, but I watch it at 1.5 I put the kids down Friday night
Starting point is 00:55:32 Saturday night 6 10 o'clock Everyone's asleep. I go downstairs in my office. I watch first episode. I'm like dude I gotta watch a second one watch second one like give me a watch a third one I get up on Sunday 6 o'clock while everybody's I go downstairs in my office What's daddy doing over there? Watch the next gets better and better And I could not believe how sick this was the way he did what he did and then the story with his kids and but don't you think that is all the signs of power
Starting point is 00:56:02 Not necessarily greed but like and it wasn't even really money was it? It was just power and control and I think that's a great lesson of like I actually think that sometimes people think that the more I mean I think successful success is a great word to debate anyway but people think that the more successful you are or better the more successful your business is and the bigger you become and the wealthier you become actually life becomes easier and easier whereas you know his life kind of spiraled out a little bit of control because of that pure want for winning and that's why you know when we talked earlier about my childhood
Starting point is 00:56:49 That's actually something that I think you have to be careful of in life because at what point do you look back? Because all it is is win win win win win What if you think about the let's just say you Vince some of these guys Dana some of the guys we're talking about that the the common threat is a very very very strong is a very, very, very strong personality father. Think about that, where it's like, you're gonna do this, watch what the, I'm gonna be doing, watch what I do,
Starting point is 00:57:13 let me show you, you mother, you think you're the driver, watch what the, you're gonna see what, and it's almost like a little bit of psychotic edge that comes from that, right? I'm gonna go show the world, and by the way, it doesn't happen with everybody. It's normally one of the kids, because to really go there,
Starting point is 00:57:33 you have to be really going to a dark place to be willing to go through that pain. If it doesn't matter to you, and then if you don't have control over your imagining, you can really go to a bad place, and you can kind of have a different kind of relationship with your dad, you don't wanna do that, magic you can really go to a bad place and you can kind of you know Have a different kind of relationship with your dad. You don't want to do that. But if you're able to come back by the way transitioning Bob Arum, I was at Bob Arum's that said this about you. Let me read this to you very interesting in a way
Starting point is 00:57:56 I see it as a compliment. Yeah, he said this about you He said, you know the problem with Trump is he talks too much. It's almost like Eddie Hearn is the president of the United States That's another guy that talks too much. It's almost like Eddie Hearn is the President of the United States. That's another guy that talks too much, right? When you hear him saying something like that about you, do you take that as a compliment? I guess so. I mean, I'm again, like, sometimes I border on the line of delusion about my own ability on things. You.
Starting point is 00:58:27 Yeah. Because I think I can do everything. Are you aware or you're not aware when you're in it? I'm aware, but I'm also like, you know, I've wound up the American promoters for many years because in the UK, sarcasm is seen as the greatest form of humor. It's actually gets lost a lot in America. So I've done things where I've, you know,
Starting point is 00:58:47 like there's this guy called Leonard Elaby, works for Floyd Mayweather and he's like, and I drive him mad. Like when he talks about me, he's throughing at the mouth and I'm like loving it. And I said, as a throwaway lion once, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I see myself actually going into acting, right?
Starting point is 00:59:03 Which I actually probably do, right? But again, just like delusion, right? I'd say it to my friends and they'd go, shut up, you know, and I said to him, I said, this is an interview, not to him. I said, I wouldn't even be surprised. They're auditioning for the new James Bond at the moment. Why not? Yeah. Well, he's come out and he's like, did you see her the other day? I mean, he's talking about being a new James Bond. I mean, what the fuck is this guy? And I'm watching him game.
Starting point is 00:59:28 You're so angry. Wow. It was actually a throwaway line. And then I started thinking to myself, do you know what? I could probably do that. Right. And see with Arab. And then recently I started talking in the UK about running for prime minister. Right.
Starting point is 00:59:40 And I'm like, cause my audience is the people, right? We do 10 different sports at Matrim, and they're all working class sport where the man on the street follows and watches, right? So I'm quite well known within that place. And I was like, and we've got big problems in the UK at the moment, big problems. And I just came out and I was like and we've got big problems in the UK at the moment big problems and I just came out and I was like look you know I can't make me the next prime minister you know and I was talking about some of my policies but
Starting point is 01:00:13 the problems in the country and it's like before you know it like actually there's like this swell of support across social media and it's like you know what I'd vote for it yeah we could do worse you know all this kind of stuff and it's like I said to my dad you know what that I think I could do this and he's like I said, alright Well, if I ran for MP right member of the parliament for Brentwood, which is where we're from Do you think I'd win? And he went hands down but everyone knows me in the air Like, you know, our family are very we've lived there there our whole lives, like I would 100% win.
Starting point is 01:00:46 It's not a state. What is that comparable to here? Not a state, but like, but it's a, you know, it's at a county, would it be considered a county? I mean, it's a county of Essex, but I could pretty much win any seat within the county, which is like a state for you guys. Right. Because especially how the country is at the moment and the need to do something and and you know to advocate for change but I'm just sort of
Starting point is 01:01:09 messing around then you start thinking to yourself you know but when you say like that psychotic edge there probably is a little bit of that because I'm thinking to myself well I'm not I'm not cracked boxing but I'm you know we've we're really on the way what's next do you know what I mean and he's saying to me do you you know with all the aggravation in your life would you really could you think of anything worse than being Prime Minister of this country and it's like he goes and stop just just and I'm like yeah I'm only joking anyway and I'm kind of sitting
Starting point is 01:01:42 there going are you the war? I mean I am I don't think I don't think I'm only joking anyway. I'm kind of sitting there going, you know. Are you though or? No, but I mean, I am, I don't think, I don't think I'm bright enough to be prime minister, but then you look at what's happening around the world, you know, and then you just think really, and we go back to like your show and the numbers and that kind of stuff. Actually, it's not necessarily about that. I mean, you go, last week,
Starting point is 01:02:01 I was talking at Wharton Business School, we had a show in Philadelphia and I'm talking to all these incredible business graduates and I'm thinking like, you just, some people you tweet to and you go, and then a lot of that world is just like, who's going to grab it by the horns and go and make it different? And that's why I think people look at Trump and say, I don't necessarily like the guy, but I think he's going to get things done. You know, so yeah, I don't think you're going to see me running for prime minister, but I like challenges and I'm 45 years of age.
Starting point is 01:02:34 I don't know, you know, what's next? You're going to think I'm crazy when I tell you this, but the last 13 and a half years, I've been working on my first fiction book to write ever fiction book to write. And while I finished this book a year ago, I got the strangest phone call about one of the characters in a book where the guy wanted to meet with me and he read the book. And afterwards it's like, wait a minute, am I the villain in the book? This is a story about a character named Asher, who is half Armenian, half Assyrian, whose father was involved in the Iranian revolution linked to
Starting point is 01:03:07 Savak working with the Shah that they escape and he gets recruited to a secret society. Well when you go to the secret society it's been around for a couple thousand years they've developed some of the craziest leaders of all time and they test you. There's unique tests that they have at the society where they test to see your emotional mental toughness. One of the tests that they have at this society where they test to see your emotional mental toughness. One of the tests that they have is very rigorous. It's purely mental. Of course, there's a physical one, but one is mental and emotional.
Starting point is 01:03:31 If you're Armenian, if you're Syrian, if you're Persian, this is a book you're going to be reading and saying, holy moly, this is the kind of stuff you talk about in here? Yes. If you're somebody that's fascinated by history, this is a book for you. Characters. There's a technology that this society, secret society builds where you go into a vault I won't spoil it for you when you go down They have a technology where you get to sit down and watch and have a three four-hour conversation
Starting point is 01:03:56 With Tupac you can set up a debate between Karl Marx and Ayn Rand Karl Marx is in the book who wrote Communist Karl Marx and Ayn Rand, Karl Marx is in the book who wrote Communist Manifesto, Ayn Rand who wrote Atlas Shrugged is in the book, Marilyn Monroe explains the concept of seduction and sex in the book. When you read the book, it's about development of the next leaders in the world and how they do it and how they've been doing it for many years. And it's also about how to prevent the end of civilization and how this organization goes about doing it. So I've never written a parenting book before, but if I ever wrote a parenting book, this
Starting point is 01:04:29 is the closest thing to it because it's all mindset, a lot of crazy stories. Again, 13 and a half years. Trust me, I told myself I will not publish this book until I sell my insurance company and I'm fully disconnected from it where it's no longer my responsibility 100%. When you read this, if you're a creative person, if you like fiction books, if you enjoyed Atlas Shrugged, if you enjoy Divergent, if you like books like that, I think you can enjoy reading this book. It's the creative side.
Starting point is 01:04:58 Business books is very easy. Here's how you do it, here's how it works. This is very creative. If you haven't placed your order yet, now you can order it on Simon & Schuster, Amazon. I'm going to put the link up below somewhere here, maybe even in my profile. Go order the book and read it. I sincerely, I've never written a book where I can't wait to read your reviews to do see what you think about this book. So I'm going on this wild journey and we have some plans with this book here. If you support the things that I work on I
Starting point is 01:05:28 would appreciate you going to reading the book, order the book on Amazon and then post a review. You made a comment on a 16 14 year old kid Daniel that got with a samurai sword right that got stabbed and died by 36 year old and all the stabbing that's going on over there I mean we had recently I think it was three or four people that passed away. It was that it was a Taylor Swift dance class and You know a lunatic goes in and kills like three or four young girls Lunatic goes in and kills three or four young girls, talking seven, eight, nine years of age, I think six other people with a knife, right? And one of the problems right now,
Starting point is 01:06:14 and this is a global thing, by the way, this is not a UK thing, we have become so desensitized to things, haven't we? Because that thing happened a week later, it's forgotten. I mean, look at your country, where people will go into schools, you know, and you'll see mass shootings. And it's like, I mean, I don't live here full time,
Starting point is 01:06:35 but I don't get the feeling that this is like something that's mourned within the community for years and years and years. It's like, oh, there was another one over there. And that's what it's become in the UK. Oh, there was a mass stabbing today. Three people died. Oh, one died.
Starting point is 01:06:48 Someone got stabbed in Brentwood up the road. What the fuck? There is absolutely no regard or respect for... How did UK get there? How you've been there? I mean, this is your life. I just, you know, a mixture of things. I think, you know, generally, you know, I had this argument the other day with this
Starting point is 01:07:08 sort of charity that they're a great job of, you know, I said that what we need to do is we need to impose immediate sanctions and, you know, time in prison for people carrying weapons. If you're caught carrying a weapon on the street in a stop-and-search you do five years or you do ten years and then we don't have any room in our prisons so they're releasing people early right now in the prison kia starmer you know and then at the same time the problem is coming through the system young people who don't have a role model at home that don't have a family structure are moving into gangs
Starting point is 01:07:46 and bad, and I still, we do a huge amount for the Matrim Sport Charity Foundation for sport within the community. I'm telling you Patrick, you may not have been around boxing, you enter a boxing club as a young kid, it will change your life forever. All of the things that are lacking in society today with the younger generation, discipline, respect, manners, physical health, mental health, lack of barriers, winning, losing, teamwork, role models through the coaches, you get all of that when you go for a boxing club and our government are closing down these clubs in the community because they're running out of money. So the kids that used to, the 60, 70 kids from the estate, you know, who used to go boxing every
Starting point is 01:08:33 night are just now sitting around on the stairs. Next thing they're running parcels here, they're selling drugs here, they're getting involved, they're carrying weapons, you know, because you know, I mean how old are your kids? 3, 8, 11, 12. Like I sometimes, I have two daughters, right? Sometimes I listen to how they speak to me and they're good kids, do you know what I mean? But I'm like, you know, if I spoke to my dad like that growing up, he would have given me a beating.
Starting point is 01:09:00 Like kids these days, they just don't have the respect. Even if they're good kids with good hearts, it's just, things are changing. You know, they're mesmerized by devices. They've lost all kind of social interaction, one-on-one social interaction. And I see it, because I'm a parent as well. You know, come off that.
Starting point is 01:09:18 All right, okay, all right. Put it down, do you know what I mean? Talk to me. And that's a dangerous world because they just become sort of engrossed in this web of algorithm. Yeah, I'm looking at this here Rob, this is what police, British teen accused of fairly stabbing three girls, also made poison and had a terror manual? So this came out.
Starting point is 01:09:42 So this was just a few days ago, by the way. Well, we do have an immigration issue in the country, right? Which there is massive kind of, almost like civil unrest about right now. And what happened was, what they do is when this happened, they don't like to release the name or the kind of background of the killer, right? Because they don't want civil unrest. Now when they went through the full court hearing they actually found out that this guy who killed the children had an Al Qaeda manual and
Starting point is 01:10:18 poison, I believe explosives as well actually, found in his house. What does it mean an Al Qaeda manual? Likeaeda manual like a little or rob? What? so al-axel the 18 year old the training basically to you know for terrorist activities was charged with possessing terrorism related material producing a toxin after an al-qaeda training manual and highly toxic poison Were found in his home the stabbing in Southport town of uk's first goes on Ignited far-right right, far right rights across the country
Starting point is 01:10:47 after a storm of misinformation emerged online that it's a newly arrived movement to the country and now some British lawmakers have launched fresh accusations of government cover up, is already charged with three murders of BB King, six, six, seven, and nine. Are you kidding me? And the way the article is written, right-wing, why isn't it saying left-wing and right-wing?
Starting point is 01:11:09 Who cares what wing it is if they're criticizing, go a little lower Rob. So on Tuesday, police said that two recent discoveries of homers and banks and racist monotops prompted them to slap on new charges, toxin found in the carbines and a PDF file of military studies and jihad against tyrants the al-qaeda's training manual. Wow. And you know it was like they didn't want this information to come out. Why didn't they?
Starting point is 01:11:35 Because they knew we talked about yeah there were riots recently in the country and they felt that it would escalate the riots. I saw this fellow this guy Tommy Robinson did something I don't know if you know who he is Tommy. He I think Pierce had him on Did an interview with them Tommy Robinson talked about what's going on there? Did Tommy go away by the way? I believe so Yeah, can you see if Tommy went to jail right just go to Tommy? Arrested jail there you go. It's fine. I the one of them Jail for 18 months.
Starting point is 01:12:05 For what, for that documentary? What's he jailed for? Jailed for 18 months after he admitted to being Peter Fawkes, who's real name is this, Menomande Virgin, Kate Wilton Robinson, the founder of, yeah, he made a documentary that got, I don't know, 80 million views and showed some of the chaos that was going on in this place.
Starting point is 01:12:30 It's wild, you know, I lived in Iran for almost 11 years and part of it, we left, I mean, the Christian family was kind of tough, you go into school, your parents are telling you, don't tell anybody where, you know, we lean politically or where, what religion is, just tell them, talk to mommy and daddy, I don't know, talk to mommy and daddy, I don't tell anybody where you know we lean politically or where what religion is just tell them talk to mommy and daddy I don't know talk to mommy and daddy I don't know and and then I lived in Germany for a year and a half at a refugee camp and we came here man so it's a wild place your country would you ever leave it or you
Starting point is 01:12:58 at a point that you don't say yeah there was just a we've got a new government we have a labor government in now that are kind of historic in terms of taxing, you know raising the taxes and I always say that you know I mean, we're a huge contributor of tax in the UK. I have no problem with that at all, but when my children aren't safe to walk the streets it makes you just think about you know, you know your financial commitment to the country and It makes you just think about you know your financial commitment to the country and Actually more importantly the safety of your children. Do you want to do you want them to grow up there?
Starting point is 01:13:36 You know they they they raise the taxes not as harshly as what was anticipated in the last budget But at the same time it's not even really about the money It's just is it a place that you want to live in you, there are plenty of places around the world that are much, much safer, but you also want your child to have a normal life, you know, to grow up in that normal school. How old are they? 15 and 12. And you're married. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:13:54 Is your wife from there? Is she American or is she? UK. She's UK. But you know, the kids, for me, the kids are like, you know, it's so difficult because you can take them to this nice place and this nice school and like an international business school and stuff like this. And it's like, do you want them to live that life? Do you want that? Do you know what I mean?
Starting point is 01:14:20 Because I know what my toughness. Yeah. Like my dad would never have wanted me to To go down that route, you know and like because I don't think I would have been the same person How many siblings how many total one sister have they teach treat her the same as you not really? I he defines me as his project I Was like thanks dad, you know, it's really really nice and he's a project manager Just my project is then you know, we can see what we're going to do with him. Yeah. But he always wanted to build me as the guy to take the business over.
Starting point is 01:14:51 Whereas I think, especially the older generation, they are a bit different with their daughters. You know, like he says, I don't have a son. So he's like, oh, it's a shame. You know, you've got no one to take over the business. He's like, well, my daughters could do it. Oh, really? All right. Okay. You know.
Starting point is 01:15:13 So he's 76. Did he grow up in a rough neighborhood coming up? Yeah pretty rough. East London. Like you know his dad was a bus driver. His mom cleaned houses for. Was he around with the craze and all that stuff? Not really. I mean knew about those guys. I mean he used to put fruit machines and gambling machines in nightclubs that they ran and stuff like that. Sometimes like you wonder, you know, in New York, the crime where New York's at right now, don't get me wrong, the mob did what the mob did. But you know, if there was an element of you didn't screw around and these guys would show up and they took care of their own. But if you cross the line, did anything to their community and their kids, they were not good people to be messing around with, right? So sometimes you wonder like the level of safety
Starting point is 01:15:56 and how they're, by the way, which is more crosses your mind? You and your wife are in bed, you're sitting there talking to each other late at night, 11 o'clock and you're like, babe, do we leave the states or do I run for office? Yeah, I wouldn't have that conversation. But I think it's more like-
Starting point is 01:16:12 You said you wouldn't have that conversation. No, I just, like, my thing is with my children, I just want them to have a passion for something, you know? And I know that if I turn around to my kids now and said, do you want to go and live in Dubai? Or do you want to go and live in Dubai? Or do you want to go, you know, no, I've got my friends at school, like, you know. So, but sometimes you've got to make a decision for the future.
Starting point is 01:16:35 And I think it's not just really my kids necessarily. I just look at the country and I look at the kids, you know. And that's why we love doing work in the community with local boxing clubs, because when I see the kids doing know and that's why we love doing work in the community with local boxing clubs because when I see the kids doing normal things working hard listening you know sometimes being told off doing their work that's what's missing in society today I think we've got a major problem like that's worldwide but I'm you know speaking about my country specifically yeah I'm just wondering like what's gonna happen there I think you know what what is needed for that to change.
Starting point is 01:17:06 Do you know I had a guy from Poland, Dominik Tarczynski. I don't know if you know who he is. He's part of the parliament two times with Poland. Now he's part of the EU Parliament. Tough guy. We had him on the podcast, the election night. He's a fighter. He was the star of the night.
Starting point is 01:17:22 When they say star was born, this guy turned on the camera. He lights up. He lights up when the camera's on. And he says, do you know Poland's got the lowest percentage of rape, lowest percentage of unemployment, lowest of their borders? If you cross the border, they have the right to kill you. No questions asked. If you do anything at the border, it's not, well, let me find out. No, they have the lowest percentage of the Muslim population. They have certain things that he brags about. He says, we will not have one here, not one here.
Starting point is 01:17:53 You can go all spread. Very much controversial guy, right? And he sits there and he talks about what's going on with UK and some of the places. He says, look at these guys. They're ruining a great country because they just wanna make sure everybody's happy. So I don't know what's gonna happen to UK. UK is UK when you think about like, the financial capital of the world for the longest time
Starting point is 01:18:12 before it was New York, you guys had it. And you had it for a long time. So I don't know, I'm wondering if we're gonna get an announcement today that you're running for office, you're gonna do something about that. Not just yet, not just yet. We're gonna bring it. So let's transition to next story.
Starting point is 01:18:26 This is a question I was gonna ask you earlier when you talked about Bob Arum is not on Twitter. So out of all the social media platforms, like I'm with Dana and Dana says, Pat, let me tell you about Super Slap, watch this. I watched the clip, 40 million views. I'm like, you gotta be kidding, I gotta buy this. And he says, you gotta come to Super Slap event.
Starting point is 01:18:42 So I go to the event and I'm seeing a guy passes out, gets slapped in the face, is on the ground. Audience is going crazy. My wife is in the same, babe, what is this? I said, babe, whatever this is, that guy right there is promoting it. This is gonna make a lot of money because that guy's behind it.
Starting point is 01:18:59 And, you know, he went to TikTok, he went to Instagram, right, out of all the social media platforms today, if you were to rank them, which one is positively influencing boxing the most? Great question. Twitter. Really? Yeah. I mean, I would say Twitter is without question the most toxic environment I've ever seen. I think this is good for boxing. toxic environment I've ever seen. I think this is good for box. I mean, yeah, basically.
Starting point is 01:19:28 And that's exactly that. There are more opinions. There are more contra. I mean, you read really you if I read Twitter in a day, 90% of what I read is about boxing is complete rubbish. Right. But it's like full of boxing geniuses and like that ecosystem of algorithms are just flying out everywhere do you know what I mean? Someone can make anything up next thing 100,000 retweets you know or 100,000 views 400 retweets this that like Instagram for me good for building a fighters profile but difficult to actually build the narrative of conversation in the same way. TikTok, yeah, you know, there is investment going in behind.
Starting point is 01:20:11 YouTube has been a very powerful platform for us to spin the narrative of mainly shoulder programming and content to build around the event. But Twitter's the cesspit. Twitter's the, you know, the cesspit of knowledge or supposed knowledge of fans. And that's why a lot of our guys, you know, a lot of the guys that I've come off Twitter, I've deleted the app. I'm like, I'd love to, but it's just too important to us. That's what I'm saying. I wonder in the fighting world, which one it is. You know, you know, on YouTube, which one of the sports channels
Starting point is 01:20:45 has the most subscribers? You know it's wrestling. And Rob, if you can pull up YouTube, go to YouTube, put WWE, I'm trying to say how many subscribers, look at that, 105 million. Go to their videos, Rob, and go to the most viewed, just go to videos on the software popular. How many views is it?
Starting point is 01:21:03 Holy shit, 300. And then go to UFC, Rob, let's see what UFC's at. So WWE's at 100 plus, UFC is, I think they're up there. I don't know what their number is. Wow, look at that, 19.1 million. 19.1, comparison. What is- It's still a huge amount, by the way.
Starting point is 01:21:22 Still huge, but does boxing have type in boxing see if boxing I think ours would say about 600 700 thousand you know match in boxing YouTube and we're one of the biggest top rank probably have a million million a half that design are very good on social how many is that Rob 4.46 million yeah that's that's a lot for boxing. Yeah, I guess it's easier if it's all centralized, going through one thing, which is UFC and WWE, versus it's all fragmented all over the place. But also, the key to driving those huge numbers
Starting point is 01:21:57 is those powerful moments. So that's why the slap does very well in terms of its viral numbers, because it's incredibly shocking. Do you know what I mean? So when you see someone who, you know, slap someone in the face, their eyes roll in the back of the head and they're unconscious falling backwards, people are like, share, share.
Starting point is 01:22:15 No, I mean, that's the thing. When I see it, I'm like, dude, holy shit. Your first time I saw it, I'm like, what is this? Is this actually? I saw something the other day. They said this could be the next thing. It's four guys hanging off a pull-up bar. Have you seen this one or no?
Starting point is 01:22:28 No. No. You got a hang on? It's four guys, they're hanging off a pull-up bar, okay? And it says five, four, three, two, one. They're kicking each other in the face to see who falls, whoever's last. By the way, not gonna lie to you,
Starting point is 01:22:45 it was so entertaining watching this. It was so entertaining watching this. And I'm sitting there saying, you know what? This could actually be something because if the slap-in thing goes, who knows what'll take up? Let me get into a couple other questions here and then we'll wrap up.
Starting point is 01:22:59 Ryan Garcia, I had him on a couple times. He had his fight with Devin Haney. Good fight. When you watch the fight, were you saying something's going on, he looks different? Or were you like, hey, he won the fight? What was your reaction? I mean, I was representing Devin that night. I've never seen, I've known Ryan for a few years and his behavior going into that fight just changed so drastically to the point of you know eight weeks out from the fight the first press conference I was talking to him and I just turned to our guys I went what has happened to Ryan? Like he was just flying you know
Starting point is 01:23:39 like and the whole build-up everything like his behavior was just like, in my opinion, it was all the signs of someone who was having really a breakdown, to be quite honest with you, in some respect or some form, you know, fast forward to the fight, the Wayne comes, you know, he's overweight, he doesn't make the official wake the contracted way that to cut a new deal for the fight. Then the fight happens. He won the fight I mean great performance Look much bigger than Devin in the ring Devin was very brave but lost on points and then a couple of weeks later He fails his test from Varda, you know, the the drugs test on the Friday and the Saturday of the fight
Starting point is 01:24:25 on the Friday and the Saturday of the fight then all of a sudden everything changes you know the guy has won but he has performance enhancing drugs in his system during the fight that's unequivocal that's you know impossible to say he didn't then it sort of skirts back to how did it get there right every fighter would say no I didn't do anything it's a tainted supplement it's which can happen as well normally when a fighter fails a drug test so close to the fight because these guys were tested eight weeks like all the time and he hadn't failed a test normally it would be something that someone's given him or he's taken to try and cut the weight for the weigh-in
Starting point is 01:25:00 that that's my probably prediction rather than him actually cheating intentionally for the fire I think probably someone gave him something to cut weight and make weight because he couldn't make weight I don't know but what we do know is when he fought Devin Haney He had performance enhancing drugs in his system So say that to the average person and let me tell you how that comes across to me, and that's what I'm wondering. It's interesting you're saying this. The average fan who doesn't follow this,
Starting point is 01:25:30 not the 5% of the community that's the super fan, the 95%, the average fan sits there and says, oh, this guy was on steroids and growth hormone. But no, that's not the case based on what you're saying. This could have been the fact. If you guys are eight weeks out of your constant testing, the idea of getting on growth hormone or steroids it's not gonna do anything for you if it's a week out or two weeks on that's really a 12
Starting point is 01:25:52 week build out and it's something like that right no one really knows some will say well it's a masking you know agent for something that he was doing I the reality is no one will ever know he Ryan's argument was, oh, it was such a small amount that it had no physical benefit. And it's like, maybe that's the case, but it was still in your system. So then let me ask you, would there be a, like the Houston Astros, I don't know if you follow baseball,
Starting point is 01:26:16 Houston Astros won the World Series a couple years, five years ago, whatever the timeline was. And then stories comes out, you know, when the guy hits the home run, he's like, guys, don't do anything, because he's got stuff in his chest. He's like, he didn't want to show wiring. They're like, these guys cheated.
Starting point is 01:26:29 They got caught cheating. And Rob Manfred let them keep the, what do you call it, the World Series Championship. Aaron Judge was pissed, the Dodger, bunch of people were pissed because they cheated. But then they came back and they won, what year, 2017 or something like that? So they won in 2017, 2018. What year did they win the World Series?
Starting point is 01:26:52 2017. Everyone's talking shit about these guys, right? Then they come back and a few years later, Rob, if you can pull up, like when the next time the Houston Astros won the World Series, I think they won two years ago if I'm not mistaken. 2022. So these guys said, a couple guys left, but the main guys were there, one of the main guys was there and they win again five years later.
Starting point is 01:27:19 And it was the middle finger to everybody in baseball to say to all of you guys who said we cheated F you We'll still beat you and you can check whatever you want, right? Everyone's like hey, you can't say shit about these guys now they want so in this case, let's say that is the case. Okay What if you guys go back and negotiate and double down on the you know, I think the world would want to rematch is huge Yeah, and I think it will happen. I mean, there's a lot of bad blood, you know, Devin and his father feels like, you know, you coming over way, you had that in your system, you know, you, you know, and it, that's
Starting point is 01:27:54 a dangerous sport. Like if Ryan was intentionally cheating, but now you have this case that's running out of you. So you're going criminal. Yeah. Yeah. Which is actually really interesting like, you know contractually, obviously he's breached but you know, he The argument I guess of the case is that he's physically harmed the opponent by breaching the agreement Has he gone paid already or not yet? The fighters gone? Yeah, they've got paid
Starting point is 01:28:20 Yeah, they got paid but now he's suing Ryan Garcia and it's actually quite an interesting case because it may really diffuse. I think the pro one of the problems is Ryan got a year's ban, right? So actually time you finished the fire, had your holiday, but you probably wouldn't fight for six months anyway. So it's really a six month ban. So how are you going to really, you know, make a fighter fearful of the consequences of testing positive? How do you do that?
Starting point is 01:28:49 Well, maybe this case. A lot of people have said that in the past about you have a case against the fighter. Has it ever happened? Do you remember that one guy that at the end of the fight, the dad's like, dude, this is not normal. And the dad comes and grabs the gloves and he says, Margarita. Yeah, Margarita. They had loads loads stacked gloves,
Starting point is 01:29:05 loaded gloves with like concrete on the wraps. What happened to that guy? Don't think there was anything, there was no criminal case. He didn't go to jail. He got banned. No, he got banned. Permanently banned?
Starting point is 01:29:15 I believe so, yeah. Permanently banned. A year to, I don't know the exact. To do that, that's nothing. So, okay. So yeah, I'm trying to see the lawsuit. So they have Haney and Haney on Ryan Gorss. I saw this, I'm just wondering what the lawsuit was
Starting point is 01:29:35 and how much it is. I don't know why I think 30 million, but maybe I'm- For battery fraud and breach of contract. Okay, there it is. For battery fraud and breach of contract. Have they announced what the amount is or is it just a general? Okay, so it is, for battery fraud and breach of contract. Have they announced what the amount is, or is it just a general? Okay, so it's not,
Starting point is 01:29:50 the star was suspended for one year on final boards of $1.2 million in the fight, and Haney would never have fought a boxer who was positive on PED, got it, Haney was entitled to 47% of the events profits so they're coming back for that okay now this is at the end of the fight Rob if you want to play the clip and that's Ryan Garcia's dad by the way this was one of the most entertaining I actually really enjoyed watching this fight and then afterwards
Starting point is 01:30:17 we see this I'm sure you obviously know what this is go to play this clip Rob It's great for TV. He was amazing Now who you got? Who you got? Jaron Ennis. Jaron Ennis. How about Pippen Booth? Yeah, he's good. Jaron Ennis is good. Respect. It was a good performance. Sorry. I know you're a man. That's a small... When you win, I'll give you all the respect in the world. Okay, give Ryan the respect.
Starting point is 01:31:00 I just told him. You did? Absolutely. This is how we work. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll respect you. I just told him. You did? Absolutely. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was trying to come. I accept your apology. I accept your apology.
Starting point is 01:31:09 That was the last line. It was the killer. It took you half a second to respond back. Right off the bat too. But yeah, I mean look, for me, obviously they got to do what they got to do with the contract. Some people are like, well, he's doing that because they wanna dodge the next fight. Some people are saying he's doing that to hold the guy accountable, Ryan Garcia, whatever it is.
Starting point is 01:31:30 If that's the claim, and you put up a challenge for him to get back to the weight that he needs to, maybe double down on the weight to do the testing on them, but if that fight happens. Well, a big fight, yeah. It's gonna be. Big fight. It will happen, I believe.
Starting point is 01:31:44 How soon do you think it'll happen? I mean, look, he's gonna be banned till what, May. It's gonna be. Big fight, it will happen, I believe. How soon do you think it'll happen? I mean, look, he's gonna be banned till what, May? It's nothing. So, you know, Devin needs to fight really, you know, I said to him the other day, you know, that was a tough defeat physically. You could really do with a comeback fight of some respect, confidence, going through camp, you know,
Starting point is 01:32:01 cause that was a beating he said that night. You think he needs to fight before he goes with Ryan? I would advise it. To fight somebody before. Just because when you get beat like that, like that was a beating. You think he needs a fight before he goes with Ryan? I would advise it. To fight somebody before. Because when you get beat like that, like it's a long time out of the ring. You're talking about over a year out of the ring anyway. And, you know, Ryan's Ryan. I haven't seen, I would guess Ryan, I haven't seen as much from him on social media lately,
Starting point is 01:32:21 which is good news. But I think he's probably got a little bit of help and I think hopefully he's on the right path now, because he's a good kid actually, he's got a good heart, and then the buildup will be wild. I mean, we talk about narrative. Are you kidding me? Are you gonna be behind that?
Starting point is 01:32:39 That's for me. Because Oscar De La Hoya, me and him are like this. Yeah, he said something about you. He responded to you, I think, yesterday. Yeah, he was. What happened with you guys? We want to do this 5v5, which is our five of our best against five of Golden Boy's best in Saudi Arabia.
Starting point is 01:32:54 But he came out today and said, I want to fight Eddie on the card. He's so funny. And I'm like, you know, and then people say to me, you know, like beat the shit out of you, don't you? I said the guy was a pound for pound great fire. He said, well, you wouldn't do it with you. I said, there's always enough. And he came out today.
Starting point is 01:33:15 He's quite funny. He came out today on his social media. Oh, here we go. Look, I don't know if you want to play the clip of him. This is him appealing to his excellency to do the fight in Saudi Arabia. I will fight Eddie for free as a gift to you for free. It'll be my pleasure, but look, I only need about two months of training. It actually went on for a while after that, but I was like, you need two
Starting point is 01:33:43 months of training to fight me. So he's like, he's like, yeah, I said, look, I'm honored. Right. But he said, I'll fight him for free. I said, I won't. I want eight figures. But I'll do it. And it'll break pay per view records.
Starting point is 01:34:00 So it's up to you, your excellency. And they're like, you joking? I'm like, but this is what I say about the delusion earlier. So people are going to me, hey, you wouldn't do that. I go, no, of course I wouldn't do that. And I'm like, I would do that. Just because- Is there real animosity towards each other?
Starting point is 01:34:18 He hates me. Oh my God, he hates me. Like I don't, I see Oscar De La Hoya as this, I mean, like one of my favorite fighters. He's just like a legend of the sport, but I'll put his nose out and join it so bad. I signed Canelo Alvarez when Canelo took him to, to court and he come to join me. And like for years, he just, you know, I have this ability to make people's blood pressure rise beyond all kinds of levels. So that's the thing we've asked.
Starting point is 01:34:46 You know, and actually I like, I was like, we could do a lot of business together, but he's a guy that works off emotion rather than a clear mind to do good business. So when it, when it happened, what's your story from Canelo and his fallen out? Because listen, at one of the fights fights Canelo would not stop talking trash Yeah, that was the heimlich they hate each other bad I mean the tour Oscar doesn't like me, but I don't think it's not like him and Canelo like they cannot stand each other Oscar says I built you you owe me everything and Canelo says I Made your company and then there's a lot of financial disputes and stuff like that
Starting point is 01:35:24 But you know Canelo is probably the coolest guy I've ever met, you know, and- The coolest guy you've ever met. Yeah, and one of the straightest guys I've ever met, like 100%, you know, I did about seven fights for him. And if the business is right for him, Easy. Done, and if it's not, no problem.
Starting point is 01:35:44 Eddie, I'll see you on the next one. Thank you. Thank you, Sal. See you on the next one. That's it. And as long as you always know where you stand, that's all good. You know, he's a great guy. So you said the Excellency earlier with Turkey, Alaa Sheik. How much is he disrupting the game? You know, I don't know who said it that he's the biggest name right now. I think ESPN may have called him the number one most powerful man in boxing. Something like that, influential powerful man in boxing. Why do you think that's the case?
Starting point is 01:36:12 Well, because they have obscene budgets and the opportunity to do whatever they want in the space. Riyadh season, which is what he effectively runs and that schedule of events he's It's been in operation for a year now You know you've seen fury and garnu and garnu Joshua fury usik bival better be of the 5v5 us against Frank Warren A day of reckoning card we did an event for him in Los Angeles, which was incredible We just did Joshua Dubois at Wembley 96,000 people I mean, you know and what I love about these people, firstly, talk about great guys.
Starting point is 01:36:48 Like he's one of the funniest people I've ever met and the funniest. He will take, I mean, if you read his WhatsApps to me, all he does is like take the, take the mick out, take the piss out of me all the time. You know, we have a fight, I lose you. Oh shit, Eddie, you need to retire, you know, but his energy to get things done like, you know the pace that they move. Yeah You do a deal here now done right you go away paper it get it done next Do you mean and once that's done? It's not oh three months down the line. We're still going it's this and that he's done You know and you sit in a room with him and he puts a card together and you just like
Starting point is 01:37:24 Wow, what part of it as well the whole of the fights obviously the cost of You know, and you sit in a room with him and he puts a card together and you're just like, wow. What part of it as well? Just the whole of the fights, obviously the cost of the show that he's putting together. But he knows he's boxing and he's a very passionate man about the sport and very clever. This isn't just a guy who's come in, who's got a big budget and doesn't really know what he's doing. So how do you, when you say he's clever, what? A clear vision for the sport.
Starting point is 01:37:43 He understands it commercially. You know, I don't know if you've for the sport, he understands it commercially. You know, I don't know if you've seen the, uh, the promos that they put together. Guy Ritchie did the last one. I mean, it's like, it's like a mini Oscar winning film, the promotion, the way they're building the perception of the sport again, you know, into this huge event. It's been brilliant for the sport. And, you know, you're always going to get people who moan and, you know, why, why, why are there events in Saudi? Why not? There are events in Las Vegas, but every part of the world. Who bitches about it? Fighters or?
Starting point is 01:38:12 Fans, sometimes people aren't involved. I know, but like. Let's say you put up a fight. If it's a fight that the world wants to see, they don't give a shit where it's at. Put it, we'll come to it. Matter of fact, didn't you during COVID put some stuff, you put some fights in your backyard, didn't you do some? So we had about eight fight shows booked. We'd pay for the venues, the flights, the hotels, everything.
Starting point is 01:38:35 And then COVID hits and the government says, right, all live sports events canceled. I'm like, what? We've got all our dates with our broadcaster to be fulfilled, right? We've got no arenas you can go to. And I actually, this is our office, actually, our head office. This is where I, it's my old house, where I lived there from the age of four. Is this the house that your dad bought for $200,000?
Starting point is 01:39:02 I read somewhere. £200,000, yeah. £200,000, it's like $20 million. Yeah. So leading up there, there's some stairs, right? Just by the bottom windows. And I sat on those stairs during COVID. And I was like, what the fuck are we going to do? And I looked at the lawn and I was like, we're going to do it here. And they were like, what? I said, I'm going to create Fight Camp. And I said to my dad, I said, Dad, we're going to build Fight Camp in the garden.
Starting point is 01:39:33 And he's like, what do you mean? And I said, we're going to have an arena in the garden and we're going to hide a hotel down the road, which is out of business. We're going to put the bubble in there. We're going to put testing in there. there we're gonna isolate everyone in the room once they've passed their tests we're gonna ferry them up to the hotel and fight here and we ran this for four weeks right it was the most unbelievable thing you will ever see it completely changed. How many people would be there
Starting point is 01:40:01 by the way? No one was allowed. It's just the fight. Yeah, only the people in the bubble. The next year, it was so big, the event, Fight Camp, I did it again the next year and I allowed 600 people a night into the garden. We sell tickets, the unique private experience within the garden to watch Fight Camp live. But the reality was this is what it was like. You're joking. This is the backyard. This is the ring walk for the backyard.
Starting point is 01:40:32 Pyrotechnics, right? And what do you sell in this fight? All around the world. Pay-per-view. Yeah, there was a couple of pay-per-view events within the four-week period. But don't forget, you're going to the broadcaster, you're saying, right.
Starting point is 01:40:49 You are, I owe you four shows, five shows within that contract. Yeah. I can't deliver them, but I can now because I've built this fucking arena in my garden and we're going to do it from how do they feel about it? I loved it because there's no live sport. You know, all the other sports just closed down. They went, well, we can't do anything at the moment till Are you and Dana talking at that time or not at all a little bit? I think it probably got his attention a little bit. So you did it first. Yeah. Oh, I did this before the apex
Starting point is 01:41:15 So let me and by the way, you didn't just do it anywhere. You didn't do this in Florida or Texas You did this in UK. Yeah, how did they feel about it that you're doing this? Did they give you a hard time would they show up with security show up in UK? Yeah. How did they feel about it that you're doing this? Did they give you a hard time? Would they show up? Would security show up? Would UK, the politics? I mean, yeah, no, we followed the rules. So, you know, the rules were that you could do behind doors, closed events, right? But no crowd. But you had to do testing. You had to put people in isolation till you got their test results. You had to keep them in a bubble. Would they sent to watch you? Were they kind of? Yeah, the council would come down, make sure everything's in order, masks are being worn.
Starting point is 01:41:51 Did anybody try to get in your way or neighbors support? If you did it the right way, they didn't bother you. I think there were a few neighbors around who were like, what is going on here? I'm assuming this is a high-end community, the neighborhood. Yeah, so-so. But also, I was saying to the area Brentwood, right? Guys you've got an international sports event taking place in Brentwood You've never had anything in your life. The whole world is watching Brentwood right now Stop moaning and just buy the pay-per-view and how much you send spent on this on the backyard the whole thing just about set up about
Starting point is 01:42:21 Two million pounds two million pounds. Yeah, so the time, what would that be in US dollars? Three million dollars. So you spent three, so was it rental or did you buy? No, we built the structure. So it's still there right now. No, no, it's taken down. Where did you put it? What did you do with all the equipment?
Starting point is 01:42:37 It just gets taken away. So you're hiring the trust, you're building the trust. There's probably some better pictures as well. No, you had the other one was really clean, Rob. You had one that was really clean. Put Fight Camp, Matrim, or Eddie, huh? Yeah, I mean, that's a big, if you got rigging, you got the... Yeah.
Starting point is 01:43:04 That's sick. But like, you like the power, what that did for our business was that got the attention because COVID was a global issue. This got so, look at that. This got so much exposure globally. And of course, when people say it was in your back garden, like that was even, because after this,
Starting point is 01:43:24 eventually we went to an arena and we just hired an arena and did it behind closed doors. Fucking could be in the middle. It could be anywhere. Right. But this was the first thing that we did. Is there people there? Do I see people? This was this was year two. Now you can now. Now I sold tickets, which I didn't like because I got randoms in my garden. Drinking. We got we had this. We had pizza stands, taco stands. We got all the champagne bars. And I'm like, don't get me wrong, for a fight fan, it was like once in a lifetime experience,
Starting point is 01:43:52 but it was a bit weird for us because it was like, this is my actually my house and my head office. This is wild at a time like that to make sure while everybody else is here to listen. Yeah, well, it was a wild time that, you know, what is it he said you know one of the rules that my dad said I don't know number six or seven which was you know which one I can't remember it but there was definitely something that here we go this is the build right.
Starting point is 01:44:20 This is the year two so that's the hospitality tent at the back. We had DJs in there, all champagne bars. This is beautiful. Where is this by the way? Brentwood in Essex. It's about 15 miles outside of London. Is this all in one? This is day three or day? Are you already?
Starting point is 01:44:40 It takes about a week or so to build a building. So when it gets darker, rain... And this is summer, by the way. Right? So then it starts raining and we're like thinking, what is going on here? Yeah, we just had our thing that we did in our hangar and it was pouring. And at the moment people started showing up, like there's a 75% chance it's raining.
Starting point is 01:45:02 Guess what happens? Stops raining. Yeah. And that's wild, man. So Eddie, next, what's the next big thing if you were to say some big fights? By the way, do you watch UFC or no? Yeah I do, yeah. Do you like it? Do you love it? I've been to a couple with Dana, kindly got me out. I think it's compelling, I think you know it's, I think it's compelling I think you know it's I think it's just a tremendous product I'm very jealous of the almost like the control they have over their talent where it's like you sign a central contract and it's like
Starting point is 01:45:33 what you are fighting him on November 30th see you there and your money's already there with us it's an individual negotiation for every fight that's incredible I know I know that he. That's why the business is so, so good. Do you think because the way boxing gets fragmented, it can't compete with the UFC the way UFC? I feel like, you know, boxing already competes with the UFC. Like, people talk about boxing's dead, but there's nothing like a big fight.
Starting point is 01:45:59 Like in terms of the interest it generates, the numbers it can generate as well, boxing is so historic globally. And that's really the plan for us as a business. I mean, I've got to tell you one thing before we wrap up, because the one thing that you haven't spoken about, you've got to understand a sport and a business called darts. Darts.
Starting point is 01:46:19 This is the biggest viewed sport in the UK outside of Premier League football. We are selling 15, 20, 30,000 tickets for people to watch darts. Please Google Luke Littler 9 darts. This kid has come on the scene at 16 years of age and has become the hottest ticket in town. We just recently did the US event at Madison Square Garden in the summer,
Starting point is 01:46:47 sold out 4,000 in the theater there. Darts is taking over America. It is the ultimate night out experience. You need to watch the video of Luke Lytter on YouTube. Wait till you see the crowd. Fancy dress. Are you talking about? Darts.
Starting point is 01:47:03 Darts. I'm telling you now, you're gonna play this conversation back. Right, watch this. Which one? This top one. Sound. Need lots of sound. This kid's 16. Trenton's in Triple Twenties apparently. Oh they both were! What?! Oh they've changed the dartboard, they've made the triple bigger. Don't say that, people will believe you man!
Starting point is 01:47:31 You can't joke on TV! Oh! This is amazing. 20,000 people at the O2. They were both on nines, I'm just saying. Can he? Can he? Can he?
Starting point is 01:47:52 Yes! It's a yellow beauty! Sixteen years old! Luke Lentler is in a nine-dart finish in the final of the Premier League of Darts. He's hit one on the Pro Tour, he's hit one on the European Tour, and he's looking at his watch to say about time. How old is the other guy? 27, 27. He's world champion the other guy. He's the world champion, the 16 year old. Now is it common for 16 year olds to be good in this game?
Starting point is 01:48:22 No, no. But already Patrick, darts, it's a phenomenon. It's the greatest party in town. People are turning up in fancy dresses. You've got Power Rangers, you've got Smurfs, right? You've got Miss Univer. Like, look at these pictures. Look at this. Who runs this by the way?
Starting point is 01:48:41 We own the sport. We own the PDC, the Professional Darts Corporation, the governing body of the sport. When you say we, who is we? You own the sport. Yeah. I'm telling you, this is about to take over America, this sport. And everyone says, when I try to explain to people about darts to people, especially people who aren't from the UK, they go, like, who's it?
Starting point is 01:48:59 Darts. It's like, you could watch clips of this. Like, look at like look at it. Look, where's Wally? Peter Pan. Right? You've got a chicken at the back there as well. Right?
Starting point is 01:49:13 This sport, it's only competitor in terms of viewership in the UK is Premier League football. Has this always been like that or no? Yes, but lately the last five years. So to put it in comparison, Darts is almost twice the size of our boxing business. What? Yeah. Like in revenue? Yes. You're joking. And EBITDA. And EBITDA? Yeah. So how much, that 16 year old kid, how much does he make? Probably five million dollars a year. And your EBITDA is still twice as much as your Boxing.
Starting point is 01:49:50 And your Boxing is a good size. Huge. See that's the thing, the things we talked about with sales and promoting and you know those types of things makes you realize at the end of the day salespeople rule the world. If you know how to sell, if you know how to promote, the rest is history. Last question for you on the pops, when you decided to come back and work with pops did you guys have any rules of working together or no? Not really no. I mean we always a lot of our key people in the
Starting point is 01:50:23 business we never really recruit at senior level or we didn't till we got to a certain size Everybody came through the business. So Frank Smith who's my CEO for boxing. He joined the company at 15 Matt Paul to who runs the PDC joined the company at 16. What do you mean 16 years old? Oh, and how old is it? How old is he? Should have 15 years now the CEO of boxing the 15 year old is now the CEO of Boxing? At 32. Matt Poulter is the CEO of PDC. He's 40 years old. Emily Fraser runs multi-sport.
Starting point is 01:50:51 She joined at 17. So he loves to give people the opportunity to work through the business. And that's what I always say to people within a company. You will always get noticed. There are no barriers to entry in boxing, there is no barriers to growth for you within the business. And the show that we have coming out next year, The Great Showman, is our Netflix documentary
Starting point is 01:51:15 from the creators of Drive to Survive, Full Swing, all the big shows, Box to Box. And I pitched them the boxing version of Drive to Survive. They came in, they filmed the boxing but they looked at the company and they went no no we want to do it on the company on you on your dad and all these different people that have come through from the ages of 15 or 16. What a great story man. What a great story man. Let me tell you I had no idea where this direction the conversation was gonna go but I know it was gonna have a fun time but I
Starting point is 01:51:43 didn't know it was gonna be this good. And I had a freaking blast talking to you. And maybe next time, if your father is ever here, I would love for us to do one talking together, if he's ever in Florida. I'd love to have that conversation with him. Anyways, brother, this was great. Appreciate you for coming out. Take care. You're going to think I'm crazy when I tell you this, but the last 13 and a half years, I've been working on my first fiction book to write ever.
Starting point is 01:52:10 Fiction book to write. And while I finished this book, a year ago, I got the strangest phone call about one of the characters in the book where the guy wanted to meet with me and he read the book. And afterwards, it's like, wait a minute, am I the villain in the book? This is a story about a character named Asher, who is half Armenian, half Assyrian, whose father was involved in the Iranian revolution, linked to Savak, working with the Shah, that they escape and he gets recruited to a secret society.
Starting point is 01:52:41 Well, when you go to the secret society, it's been around for a couple thousand years, they've developed some of the craziest leaders of all time, and they test you. There's unique tests that they have at this society where they test to see your emotional mental toughness. One of the tests that they have is very rigorous. It's purely mental. Of course, there's a physical one, but one is mental and emotional. If you're Armenian, if you're Syrian, if you're Persian, this is a book you're going to be reading and saying, holy moly, this is the kind of stuff you talk about in here? Yes. If you're Persian this is a book you're going to be reading and saying holy moly this the kind of stuff you talk about in here yes if you're somebody that's fascinated by history this is a book for you characters there's a technology that this society secret society
Starting point is 01:53:13 builds where you go into a vault i won't spoil it for you when you go down they have a technology where you get to sit down and watch and have a three, four-hour conversation with Tupac. You can set up a debate between Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Karl Marx is in the book who wrote Communist Manifesto. Ayn Rand, who wrote Atlas Shrugged, is in the book. Marilyn Monroe explains the concept of seduction and sex in the book. When you read the book, it's about development of the next leaders in the world and how they do it and how they've been doing it for many years
Starting point is 01:53:45 And it's also about how to prevent the end of civilization and how this organization goes about doing it So I've never written a parenting book before but if I ever wrote a parenting book This is the closest thing to it because it's all mindset a lot of crazy stories again 13 and a half years trust me I told myself I will not publish this book until I sell my insurance company and I'm fully disconnected from it, where it's no longer my responsibility 100%. When you read this, if you're a creative person, if you like fiction books, if you enjoyed Atlas Shrugged, if you enjoy Divergent, if you like books like that, I think you can enjoy reading this book it's the creative side business books is very easy here's how you do it here's another this how it works this is very creative if you
Starting point is 01:54:31 haven't placed your order yet now you can order it on simon and schuster amazon I'm going to put the link up below somewhere here maybe even in my profile go order the book and read it I sincerely I've never written a book where I can't wait to read your reviews to see what you think about this book. So I'm going on this wild journey and we have some plans with this book here. If you support the things that I work on, I would appreciate you going to reading the book, order the book on Amazon, and then post a review.

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