PBD Podcast - Investigative Journalist: Chris Hansen | PBD Podcast | EP 134

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Adam Sosnick and host of To Catch a Predator: Chris Hansen to talk about his career, tips for online dating, transgenderism, and loss of trust in the media. TOPICS How Chris Hansen got his start in Journalism What made Chris catch predators Tips for online dating How kids are affected by sexting How do you have a conversation with boys about sexual predators/ Cain Velazquez What is the profile of a typical sex offender The investigative journalists playbook What does it take to do this job  Transgenderism Loss of trust in media Christopher Edward Hansen is an American television journalist and YouTube personality. He is known for his work on Dateline NBC, in particular, the former segment To Catch a Predator, which revolved around catching potential Internet sex predators using a sting operation. To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: [e-mail] Follow Chris on Instagram here: https://bit.ly/3i7fKQc Check out Chris Hansen's YouTube channel here: https://bit.ly/3q5nIO6 Listen to Chris' podcast "Predators I've Caught": apple.co/3iefe2M Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Adam “Sos” Sosnick has lived a true rags to riches story. He hasn’t always been an authority on money. Connect with him on his weekly SOSCAST here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw4s_zB_R7I0VW88nOW4PJkyREjT7rJic --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

Okay, we are live officially for episode number what tell me what episode this is 134 134 With an A time Emmy award winning Chris Hanson legend. Thank you for having us. Yes. It's good to have you on I mean if you listen if you google Chris Hanson if you go on YouTube and put your name you'll see videos 10 20 30 40 50 million view videos With the show you you catch a predator. Yeah. You've been doing this TV stuff since 1981. I want to say, 1940.

40 years. That's a last that long. I was 12 when I started. But by the way, we got a lot of things I want to go through with you. Times have changed. And I watched some of your videos. you, times have changed and I watched some of your videos. I watched the older ones, I watched some of the newer ones, I watched the guy with the

pizza who offered you pizza was so close. Well, imagine this, when we first did the initial predator investigation, which was 18 years ago last month, we merely had decoys in chat rooms on AOL and Yahoo. That was it. That's all we had. Today, there's been, as you guys know, an explosion in the number of social media platforms upon which predators can approach children.

Their dating apps that didn't exist before. They're tiktok, they're interactive games, and I have a hard time keeping up. We're going to go on and do a predator investigation. Another one this week, and we've been doing them, and still 18 years later, these guys show up. And some know who I am, some do not, but it's the same profile of a guy.

Same profile of a guy. Is it easier to catch him today or 30 years ago, 20 years ago? It's a draw for this reason. We had the drop on him 18 years ago because people didn't know this investigation was going on. The police were doing this. IKAC was doing this, the internet crimes against children. But guys would walk in thinking, okay, this is great.

I've found my target. And today, people know, I mean, guys walk into these investigations where I'm not involved, that the FBI is doing, or some sheriff's department. And they say, I know I'm getting arrested, but at least Chris Hansen's not here. I'm not gonna be on television or YouTube. I gotta think the last person you wanna see

walk into a room if you're all by yourself is Chris Hanson. We usually start pretty much close to nine. I think Pat and I were running five, ten minutes late. Individually, just because we were like, I don't wanna be the first person to walk in a room with Chris Hanson. But you get that joke quite often? Yeah, actually, they have a seat right over there. You know, it's funny because the whole have a seat, which is the name of my YouTube channel. I have a seat with Chris Hanson, and we use it for a lot of other things too. But it, I didn't mean it to be a catchphrase. It was merely a way of controlling a volatile situation.

You would've got to come in. Yeah, I need you to have a seat right over there. No, I have a seat. In fact, you know, South Park did a parody and the magic power to have a seat right over there. And it was pretty funny. Let me ask you. So you've been on Oprah, you've been on Kimmel, you've been on Conan, you've been on Stewart,

you know, John, you've been on everything pretty much. They've had you on. Have you noticed a, you know how stories like, for example, the other day I'm talking to someone about a mob movie. Can they contact me about potentially, do you wanna fund this mob movie? And they contact me about potentially do you want to fund this mob movie and you know we can go sell this and then I contact the few people that I know and they said well the

market today doesn't buy mob movies like they did before. We're in the 90s you know 2000s you had good fellas you had Carlitos way you had you know Scarface car faces all you had all these movies that would come out, right? Casino. Casino. Casino, and nowadays, the last big mob movie that came out was Irishman and Netflix did, and they paid $147 million,

and it wasn't like the most profitable opportunity for them. So producers are going away from these mob movies today. That's what I'm hearing in a market. Are you noticing media's level of interest in the topic of catching predators the way you're doing it increased today? Are they less interest to today and why? I think it's increased because we're now into the third generation of people who follow this for a lot of different reasons. You've got younger people who caught it on YouTube. You've got people close to our age, watching on television and a generation older than that. You've got younger people who caught it on YouTube, you've got people close to our age,

watching on television, and a generation older than that. We think, oh, it's great, Chris Hanson goes on and catches these creeps. So I think the interest is there because crime stories, crime reporting continues to be so interesting to people, so compelling. And what we do in the predetermined investigations and the other ones we do, we take people inside the commission of a felony.

We take them to places they wouldn't normally see. They hear things they wouldn't normally hear. So we do all the work, take on the risk, so people can have a view of this world they wouldn't normally have and it's real This isn't a made for TV movie. This isn't a scripted series for Netflix or discovery plus or any the others. This is real Life stuff. Yeah, I would assume they would want who currently Because it was on date line right it was on date line

Yeah, and then we did crime watch daily which was a syndicated show I did for a few years, and we had a predator investigation that I went on shot on my own, and that ultimately became part of my deal with crime watch daily. And now we're shooting them again with transition films, and that's going to turn it to a series for a new crime streaming network called True Blue. That's gonna launch. Do you think you're like the OG in this meaning? Like I watched you for years

and then I would, that turned us stemmed off to cheaters. Right, I'm sure you're familiar with this show. Sure. And then from there, it got really juicy with like first 48, which they would take, police officers, or 248 hours to find a murder. And then all the stuff that came out on Netflix, making a murderer, even the Tiger King

was sort of in this elk of crime mystery drama. And were you the OG in this? Or did you get this idea from someone else initially? You know, this goes back a long ways. I was in local news before I went to NBC. And when I was in Detroit as a reporter, I was tagging along with the narcotics team, the no crack task force. This was 86, 87 when crack had taken over Detroit.

And I was allowed access to this group, local PDEA, other federal agencies, and we would go in on these raids, right? So it'd be the shotgun, the ram, the helican, my cameraman, some other cops than me. I mean, we went on these raids. We lived this for years, and on one of those raids, targeting a drug gang called the Chambers Brothers, the cops found these videos, I mean, you know,

Old Fashion 1980s video pictures. The HLs. Of the gang capturing their ill-gotten wealth, 24-karat gold faucets, cars, and this one iconic video of this guy, one of the Chambers Brothers, no sure, no. Money, money, money, we rich goddamn it. I'm gonna buy three cars from our end of Jeep and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I got those videos and we did a five part series called All in the Family in about 1987 and I held these tapes for 18 months because this investigation was

ongoing and we broke this thing and the power of taking people inside this drug world caught on. And suddenly I was in Detroit, but in the middle of a national story because you might as well have had hidden cameras in there and it struck me right then the power of this kind of journalism, this kind of enterprise reporting where you get inside the story. And I never forgot that. So we had done a lot of hidden camera investigations with NBC.

They gave me pretty long leash, which I always appreciated. And when this opportunity came up to work with Preverted Justice, the online watchdog group, which essentially would find these guys and post them on their website. I thought if we could combine this with our ability to wire a house with hidden cameras and microphones, it could be compelling. And so we did it. Now, I didn't know in the beginning

whether or not I had just wasted tens of thousands of dollars of the network's money and no one would show up or if it would become what it did. And within the first 45 minutes of our investigation in Beth Page Long Island, we had two guys ready to show up at the same time. And before the end of the two-and-a-half day investigation, we had 17 guys surface. And I thought, oh my God, what have we got here?

And I thought we'd do it two or three times and no one would show up. And here we are 18 years later. Crazy. Just out of curiosity, because you are known as one of the best investigative journalists that we've had in America. I mean, your name is on that list everywhere.

You don't win eight Emmys, you know, by pure luck. You know what I'm saying. Ten actually, but more for you, two more than the last two. Since I walked in. Ten actually, but I've more for you. Two more. No, no, no. Since I walked in the building this morning. But here's a question for you. I'm so curious, if we were in high school together

or in 10th grade, I'm actually very curious enough who you were in high school. You know, I was kind of a quiet kid at first. You know, I went to brother race high school, outside of Detroit, all boys' Catholic school. And freshman year was a little bit of an adjustment. I didn't have a lot of friends there. And so, off my year, I came into my own,

started playing sports, made some good buddies, buddies I have to this very day. And I guess I was, you know, okay student, ultimately figured it out. Had a lot of fun. Had some really good friends. And, but a bit of fun, had some really good friends. But a bit of a ham maybe, but not a class clown,

kind of a guy who took part in everything but didn't wake up till my sophomore year. And all of a sudden, you grow eight inches in six months and you know, you're somebody. And I always had a job. I always had an interest in the media. When I was 15 years old, Jimmy Hoffa was kidnapped from a restaurant, a mile and a half from my home.

And I was fascinated by it. The cops were there. The cops were there. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. And it was right at Maple and Telegraph. The restaurant's a different name now, but it's still there.

And I used to ride my bike up there. And the local reporters from Channel 7, Action News were there and the network guys were in, and I just got bit by the bug. And so when I went away to college at Michigan State University, I just, on the first day, you know, figured out where the college radio station was, signed up, no experience. You know, in those days, high schools didn't have radio

and TV, you had, you know, the yearbook, and started. So you know, even your major wasn't communications, like you were, you were gonna go to the space. Telecommunications in those days, yeah. So did you, when you were a kid, did anybody bully you? Did anybody push you around or piss you off to create a feeling of underdog that that ever happened to growing up?

No, I didn't. I had a wonderful childhood. You know, we weren't wealthy, but we were on the periphery of, you know, well to do people. Upper class. Yeah, I've been, you know, but I hustled. people. Upper class. Yeah, yeah. But I hustled. I mean, I paid half my tuition at Brother Rice High School.

I worked in the back of Mr. Pastry's bakery. I hauled drywall to pay for college. And you don't know what hard work is until you haul drywall. I showed up at the first day, 17 years old, my drywall hauling partner was Lee Arthur Ramsey. I jumped with a truck. I've got the wrong boots, the wrong gloves. And there's a pack of cigarettes on the dashboard

of the truck, big truck. And he says, you want a cigarette? He goes, no, I've got the wrong boots, the wrong gloves, and there's a pack of cigarettes on the dashboard of the truck, big truck. And he says, do I cigarette? Because no, I don't smoke. You're good. You're gonna need all the breath you got, motherfucker. Let's go. Who do people say you sound like? You've got a voice for radio, but also a face for TV. That's a compliment. Oh, that's very kind of cool. Who do people say you sound like? You have a very distinct voice. You know, it is distinct. And the funny thing is that I had news directors and consultants try to change it over the years and make it more FM or more broadcast friendly. And it has always stuck out a little bit. I don't know whether it's a Midwest.

I hear some Midwest. Naisal into it or whatever. And people have worked with me on it over the years. And what was interesting is when I went to NBC, we had another show called Now that was anchored by Tom Brokow, Katie Courag. And I came from local news, and it's different. You know, what you rattle off in two minutes at the top of the six is different than the 15 minute piece you're going to do for now.

And literally had, you know, executives there, Paul Greenberg and Beth O'Connor and other people sit with me in the booth and say, okay, you got to tell a story now. You have to, you know, you have to do this differently. And those are the people who helped me be a way better storyteller because you can wash out. There's a hazing year when you started the network. And some people don't make it. And without these people, you know, I wouldn't have made it. Who do you say he sounds like? I'm actually curious to know who you say,

because I wrote a name down. There's a name I used to listen to back in the day, but it's a more masculine, I think, version of Casey Casam. That's interesting. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, I have. Who's a, you know, the King of Radio. King of Radio of all time.

Are you kidding me? Who do you got? I got walking. There's a, there's a, there's a, the king of radio of all time. Are you kidding me? Who do you got? I got walking. There's a, there's a, the space is a little bit, he's got a little bit of the, the pipe, you know, exactly. He's got a little bit of the pipe. No, you got my guy.

I asked the question. I asked the question for one reason. The reason why I asked the questions because, you know, a couple guys are right now coming. Pixmar 3 MP just said he's James O'Keefe's grandfather, meaning he's James, no, nofe's grandfather. Meaning he's James? No, no, no, no, what I'm trying to know. Not by looks, by purely of...

What he does. Catching the bad guys. Getting in your face, that is not an easy job. That's not something that people... I respect Mr. Hanson though. It's not calling my grandfather okay. No, no, no, no, no. Don't want to be one.

Don't point the point. The point I'm trying to make to is the fact that to do what you do, because even in the moment when you come out you're calm You know, it's not like so so I go back to like my my belief system for capitalism People always curious and I will what the hell does that come from like what do you out of your mind like? Why would you be such a proponent of capitalism because I grew up communist? Mm-hmm And I grew up in a family.

So if you go back down to my lineage and you find out what prompted this level of belief system to see that, I don't like the concept of manipulation and pinning people against each other where the guys that are creating the jobs that are bad guys all the time, I'm sorry, I have a hard time with that. I got a very hard time with them. So that stayed since as a kid. So there's nothing for you that happened where you're like I'm going to catch the bad guy. Very little bullying, no victimization, nothing like that. But I always, always, always felt a need to stick up for those who are being picked upon. I

always felt very fortunate. Fighting for the little guy. I always felt very fortunate to be in this body. And again, to not, you know, be wealthier or anything, but to be comfortable. I never worried about anything. I mean, I worked and I did my part and I, you know, those are great experiences for me to understand how I work, to be in a different group of people,

to understand what it was like to come from the South and work your way up and be in Detroit and make it and make a decent wage and to hear stories of how that happened and a truly urban life. You know, we still listen to different radio stations and I would hear when I was in high school working in the summer's hauling drywall. It made me a good reporter. It made me, it gave me the ability to go into the inner city and be able

to connect with people and have an immediate level of trust where they would talk to me. People who I didn't know. It's not an easy task, but it's a combination, I think, of a genuine sense of curiosity. Pat, why are you so curious Pat? Because Pat you've asked that question We can't lead to a lot of people. Yeah, but it's a good question For Hanson, you're like no, I really am genuinely curious Because no, no, no, okay, so let's just say NBC calls you today saying you're the next guy to go do the show catching a predator You want to do that job?

I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't know if I want that life. You undersigned, I'm saying to you, exactly. How many people watching this? Oh, you know what, sign me up. I'm going to his hands and see your hands on the party. No, it's not even that. It's the job is, it gets eyeballs, but do you really want to have, to do that job, there's got to be a certain level of true belief

to say, I want to go do this because I want to correct it. That's why I'm asking questions. We said that about James O'Keefe. It's like, do you want to go do this because I want to correct them. That's why we said that about James O'Keefe. It's like, do you want that life? What he's doing is very noble and hard-hitting and investigative and all that. What does he call himself? What does he call himself? The Muck Raker.

Muck Raker, that's what he does. But do you think he's got an easy life? Do you think he goes to sleep, you know, gets his eight hours of sleep every night? No. No, I mean, James O'Keefe probably does. Yeah. So that's not an easy life. No, it's not. That's why I'm asking a question to see what was the wiring,

who was the individual. You know, that's the part that makes the story interesting. Folks, here's what I want to talk today with Chris. Chris, there's a few things that's on my mind. So one, I'm a parent. I got four kids in concern. Okay, my kids are 10, 8, 5, and 8 months. Okay, and I watched the movie called This Connect. I don't know if you've seen it or not. If you haven't seen

it, I'll tell you to premise it a story. And if the audience hasn't seen it, it's mind-boggling. I think every parent needs to watch this movie. It doesn't have the highest scores. It's not like a movie that won awards. But if your parent do it yourself a favor, put this on the list, go watch it this weekend. And if your kids are old enough, enough I'm gonna watch this thing with my kids in about a couple years I'm gonna watch this with my kids I'm preparing them for them to watch this kids I want to talk about Connie and Ti a part of Ti is the fact that how protective he is with his daughter every year the fear of a father to go check to see if she's a virgin or not I don't know if you're word the story

no I've read about it yeah so we can talk about that and Connie and Pete Davidson right now would come back and forth. What is the effect of that on the kids? Because is there anything that they're doing that's hurting the kids and they're not realizing how public they've made it? And Tinder, Bumble, some of these dating sites today,

the other day, Adam's famous for swiping right. He doesn't need to, but he's famous for swiping right. This weekend, this was Leo's birthday, right? Happy 40th birthday to Leo. We go to Bodega and I'm like, thinking we're going to Lasola, we end up going to Miami, our drive and I go in there. There's 20 girls around Adam. I mean, it's like girls are just enamored with this guy. He's a handsome fellow, but yeah. Councilman, how's it get you everywhere? But here's what happened to him last week, Tinder, which he called me at two o'clock in the

morning, shivering. He was nervous Tinder apparently he swiped right with somebody where they sent you a message and they said what to you? Well, it was on hinge, but oh, and We're serious on hinge. Yeah, I was on I keep thinking that tender, but it's all nonetheless. Yeah, they they gave me a warning saying Someone you've connected to, we've identified as being a fraudulent individual, disclaimer alert, be careful with it actually intrigued me more. I was like, well, let me find out more about this. Yeah, but we canceled. So here's the story. Like, there's a story from tips for online

dating. How to keep yourself safe in 2022. We'll start there and then we'll see where we go from there. Tips for online dating. How to keep yourself safe in 2022. Wedding stats and Netflix junkie. Number one, get contact details. Collect some basic information about them, even if it's just an email address for a number

you need more than two. They're photo and username to go on the site where you met. Number two, follow their online footprint. Come social and Google, it's not too late to bail if you unearthed concerning the information. Three, video chat, your date before meeting them. Pretty interesting. Four, know the most common red flags.

Are they ranting against BLM or another movement as you've met? Are they judgmental of someone of a group of individuals? You're learning a lot about them five. Delete them when and out six, drive yourself or take public transportation seven. Let someone know where you are as you're going on the date. Whatever it is you're doing. Don't go without people know where you are. So people nowadays are dating in a different way.

It's no longer, hey, meet Mary. I met Mary through a trick. And it's how people meet. It's today. I know people who have met on match.com, who are in long-term relationships and marry. It's kind of successful. Successfully.

Wonderful human beings. And I was never in the mix to do that, but that's how people meet today. And there's nothing wrong with it, but you have to remember my overarching rule, which is if you don't know somebody in real life, you don't know them, right? So just because somebody says they're a wealthy physician

and they drive this car and they live there, that doesn't mean anything online. And those guidelines, those suggestions are very good ones for safety because it is a tremendous opportunity for scam artists. You know, we've seen the Tinder Swindler on Netflix. I'm working on right now, one right now, where 40 women were recorded by one fellow. They're all in their 20s. And each one of them was physically or sexually assaulted by this guy. And then harassed. They all got together online, started telling their stories to each other, put together a case. Interesting. Handed it to me, essentially with a bow on it,

for a story that we are now shooting. And this guy was operating on Facebook, he was operating on other social media platforms, but he was able to gain the confidence of these women. The money that he took from them was not as big as the Tinder Swingler, but the sexual violence, the physical violence, the abuse and harassment is far worse, I think.

So does he know you're up to or not? He's got a family. So he hasn't yet started the, we're interviewing victims right now. Really, starting next week. So how did these, so how did these, they reached out to me on social media? Oh, I know, but how did the 40 find each other?

Well, somebody posted, beware of this guy. He's a bad guy. This is what he did to me. And somebody saw that and said, oh me too. And then suddenly there are 38, 40 women with the same story. Now, before we move on, the Tinder Swindler, I mean, this has taken over Netflix. It's taken people are talking about this, left and right. It's a great story. What are your move on, the Tinder Swindler, I mean, this is taking over Netflix,

it's taking people are talking about this left and right. It's a great story. What are your thoughts on that story? Well, I think, you know, this guy's gotten away with a lot of bad stuff. Right? He is a great con man. And I think it was brave for these women to come forward because it's hard to do that. It's hard to realize you've been scammed. But this guy was very good. I mean, he had the whole backstory he had. You know, do you wanna get on my private plane and fly to Albania with me? I mean, you could see how an intelligent, successful woman

might buy into that. You know, everybody's got a, every date starts with the first date, right? Everybody's got a little bit of puffery in them, right? But not to this level. Right, you know, I think this guy once said, on your first date, you don't show up yourself. You send your representative, right?

So, but he got caught. This guy, the tender swimmer. Right, but what's amazing to me is how few criminal charges he's faced. Now again, I get his overseas and now there's some civil action that's been taken by the family. He claimed to be part of the family. Yeah, the control people. And I guess he did 15 months or something like that on a related charge, but it's hard to prosecute these people.

I mean, we once did a series on online scammers, you know, to catch a con man, and some of the stuff was Nigeria-based. And the network gave me a year and a half and access to three or four different producers who had rotated it out. And it took that long to smoke these guys out of Nigeria because they typically work in West African cafes and they don't come out, they try to get you to send the money. And finally, after more than a year with aliases and names like Jimmy DeMoney and Rich Greenback

and kind of a tongue and cheek thing, we got these guys to meet us in London, where we set up a pub with hidden cameras and they would come and they ran their scam. And we caught them. And it was hard work, but you can't do that story in a week. You can't do that story every year. It was such a big deal because we pulled it off, but it was a herchelan task to do it. And that's why these guys get away with it. It's so ubiquitous, just the internet in general. How are you gonna, the guy you're talking about

with the 40 women that came up to you, the victims that came up to you? What's your approach gonna be with him? Well, we're gonna have to be a little bit flexible, but I think ultimately you try to set up a sting. So maybe the next victim who we can put in place to make her seem like she's a good mark, set up a date, set up the travel expenses.

He shows up. I'm there. She's not. Confrontation. I'm there. She's not Confrontation you were you're letting the cat out the bag or well, I think it's vague enough in terms of there's so many these guys out there This right now. He's Chris is coming for you buddy. Yeah, yeah, I'm that guy. I'd be monitoring I'd be monitoring one person in the world You Chris. Oh my god. That's class. I think there's so many of these guys out there that I'm comfortable talking about. Aside from dating, I mean, how many freaking Bitcoin scammers fake value-taming accounts, fake saw stocks, money, fake DVD,

non-verified accounts? I mean, Pat, you've told this story. Well, they're fake Chris Hansen's courting young women to work in investigations into predators. They were out on social media. So what's the general rule these days? Because you've dealt with this. I assume land stop.

We have fake value attainment accounts. You know, messaging people. Is there like a go tool, like Pat read off these six seven tips? But is there sort of a rule, you know, like the rules for radicals or rules for online? Yeah, if they're on social media and they're committing harassment or violating terms of service for Twitter or Instagram, you need to file the report in numerous cases where people have targeted me for harassment or whatever, you can get that account taken down. But it's painstakingly difficult and to keep track of it all, it's just give you a mind

rate. Because there's so many people out there trying to do it. So, you protect yourself as best you can. There's some security people. I'm sure you've got people monitoring accounts to see what pops up. And I've got people who monitor mine, thankfully, because you can't do it by yourself. Yet, you don't want somebody out there saying you're doing something that's untrue or creating a misinformation campaign.

Because people do it every day. It's not that hard to do. I mean, people pop up, I report accounts all the time that I have my picture in my name. Instagram does not do a good job of deleting. Terrible, by the way. I don't know if it's intentional. I don't think it's volume, but they can probably do a better job. Would you say the number one app that they're targeting would be Facebook or is it more Instagram and TikTok due to the age being younger? I think that to me in my experience Instagram has been very

Responsive when I've had an issue and I've got far fewer issues on Instagram than I have on on Twitter Twitter to me at least seems to be where there are more trolls, more people getting away with stuff, harder to report. And if you were to look at what people say about Chris Hanson on Instagram, is the goat, he's this, he's that all, you know, 99% positive on Twitter. Uh, he did this, he's murdered, you know, it's just, it's just, it's on. Hold on, Chris, are you saying that there's trolls on Twitter? Is that what you're saying? In a shocking breakthrough.

The toughest people in the world. Let me target you. Let me target you to one specific topic. We'll come back to this dating stuff. I want to target you to one specific topic. So I watch this movie Disconnect. If you can pull it up, let's just start with this. So Disconnect is a story with the actor,

what's his name? Jason Bade. OK, so he's a great actor, phenomenal job. But this story is a story of a father who is working, doing what he's doing, his son in a class. Look at box office. Look at box office. What it is.

1.5 million. And I'm telling you, every parent must watch this movie, right? So you know, this father's got this kid. He's got a daughter and a son. The son falls in love with a kid in school, girl in school. And he tells another guy, he finds out, but the guy tells the bully of the school. The bully of the school creates a fake Facebook profile with the girl that he likes his picture on there

and befriends all the people in school, thinking that he is the girl. Then she reaches out to him, and meaning he acts as if it's her, reaches out to him. And meaning he acted as if it's her reaches out to him, saying, hey, thank you for your help or some message like that on Facebook. So I didn't even know you paid attention to me. So of course, I paid attention to you.

And then he starts flirting with him, thinking it's her. Eventually, the bully says, I'll show you mine if you show me yours, okay? So he's like really yes So the bully sends a picture of some girls, you know, naked and it's just the bottom nothing more, right? And the guys like oh my god says then he sends this picture But he wants the the the bully wants him to send a picture with his face in it. So he does They take that picture the next day the kid to go to school everybody picture with his face in it. So he does. They take that picture, the next day the kid to go to school,

everybody's looking at this kid laughing at him, right? He's like, why is everybody laughing? And everybody starts showing a picture. Listen, you send this message and the bully outs him, exposes him, right? So this kid is devastated. Doesn't know what to do. It's 12 years old.

Doesn't know how to handle this. Goes home, turns on heavy metal music. They're wondering why he's doing that. He's hanging himself in his room Sister walks and holds him before he kills himself father comes and says what the hell is going on? He says finally they find that the situation that goes to the other dad's and then anyways this story right here It's based on a true story by the way. It's based on a true and it it's happening. And there's multiple, there are multiple versions of this. I'll tell you what, I've done this on my YouTube channel. I have a seat with Chris Hansen in a case where a young man, same thing happened to him. And the mom went to, and not only was this an embarrassment at school, it got into different sites that it was being traded for child porn.

It went on Twitter and was being disseminated on Twitter. They went to Twitter and said, take this down. Twitter didn't act. Pretty well. For months and months and months and months. And it's a subject of a civil lawsuit claiming that Twitter was complicit in the distribution of child pornography. This is real life stuff.

This happens. You look at the case down in Naples, not far from here. A girl was a very popular TikToker. Started during the pandemic, 13, 14, 15. A guy becomes obsessed. Shows up at the door with a shotgun, blows open the door. The fathers are retired lieutenant from Jersey City PD, fortunately, had a pistol, shoots him dead,, standard ground case. We didn't find out till just a month or so ago that this was all involved in a Twitter type thing. And it turns out the guy who was shot dead,

the stalker, had been in contact with other kids at her school to get information about her. See, this is stories like this, though. I mean, it's, you, I mean, look, it's all great to be on social media. You know, it's a part of the fabric of our society of our lives. And kids should be able to go out and create accounts and be able to express themselves. That's all good, but it's got to be monitored.

And the thing that drives me crazy, guys, is you see these parents who are exploding their children, not in this case. I'm not arguing that in the case of Naples, but in other cases, and I've done stories on this where parents are pimping out their kids in these quote unquote family channels. And YouTube sometimes doesn't crack down on this stuff. So they'll limit monetization on a show that I do exposing this stuff. But the young girl who's being exploited, that shows fine, they monetize the heck out of it.

It's insane. So what do you do? You're a parent, you're listening to this. Okay, we've heard many different things. What are the guidelines? Because there's a difference between being too intrusive and it's like, dad, leave me alone, mom, leave me alone, you know, let me have my own life

versus, you know, you know, these guys are out there. You know, they're out there. Well, you have to, look, when we talk about the drug problem, there's demand reduction. We treat it as an illness sometimes as opposed to a crime. There's no demand reduction effectively for predators. So your best defense is education and the discussion you have with your children at home.

There's one discussion when they first get online and have a phone. There are adults out there who want to trick you. Kids don't like to be tricked. And as they get older, and as you allow them access to different areas of the internet, you have to up that conversation and be very straight up with them and say, look, you don't want to hear this from you. But I do this for living.

I talk to people who live in this world world and it's dangerous if you don't apply these rules. They used to say to us when we were growing up, don't talk to strangers. Good advice, then good advice today. But the problem is the stranger on Wednesday is so adept at grooming your child. That he's not a stranger on Saturday. And I read these transcripts where I go back and do the podcast, predators I've caught. I go back in the cases that we've already done. And I immerse myself in the transcripts, the confrontation, the interview, the stuff that didn't necessarily make the show at the time. And you see this pattern of grooming and this normalization of adult sex to children. And this conversation where they try to relate to a child at a child's level, and it follows a pattern.

And it's effective because it works It works time and time again. So if you eliminate that you educate and you prepare your child and you have the conversation Let's just say and they have to feel comfortable coming to you You're not gonna take away the internet if the computer I'm saying let do you have kids? Yeah minor grown. I mean I mean, my kids, my tools are in the business right now. Let's just say you have a 10-year-old kid today. How do you call the conversation? What's the conversation?

You have a son or you have a daughter. How do you have the conversation? I'm gonna let you visit YouTube. Okay. But I'm gonna put protections on this. And you need to know that there are people on YouTube who are creating content who are making shows that at first

appear to be appropriate for children, cartoonish, but they're not. They're intended to trick you. So I'm going to watch closely and monitor the content that you view that shows you watch on YouTube. And if I see anything, we're going to have a conversation. And if anybody ever comes to you who you don't know in real life and wants to be your friend, you need to tell me about it. I'm not going to punish you, but you need to tell me because there are people out there

who want to hurt kids. This is a sad reality of life. It's sad, but it's true. There are people. That's why we have police. That's why we have the FBI. That's why God created parents. However you wanna freeze it with your belief system

in your own home, I'm here to protect you. I'm not here to punish you. And you need to tell me if something like that happens. And if there is a bad guy out there who tries to do something with you, we'll go after him together. Now, are you specifically saying YouTube for a reason? Because I would feel like Snapchat would be probably

the worst of the worst. Oh, I use it just, yeah, Snapchat. And you're using that as a... TikTok, snapchat, whatever it is. And the thing that you really have to be careful with when the kids get on and play these interactive games. Because somebody posing as a 13 year old in St. Louis could be a 55 year old in his mother's basement

where he goes underwear, serrated by pizza boxes, trying to trick kids. You create these images in a kid's mind and they get it. But I'll tell you this, early on in the predator investigations, I had a group of maybe a dozen, 13, 14 year olds. And I said, show of hands. How many of you have been approached online by an adult and it made you uncomfortable?

99%. Oh, wow. How many of you told your parents? Two. So they just don't feel comfortable telling their parents? Pat, Dylan, I'm Tiko and Dylan are 10 and 8. And Santa is 6, 5, 5, and obviously baby Brooklyn. What does that conversation sound like for the boys? Versus for the girls in your mind and Chris you have what daughters what do you have? I have Three boys in a girl three boys in a girl So pat in your minds is that a different conversation with the boys versus girls or have you even are the kids even old enough to have the conversation

When you should you one should you start having these conversations? What age? I'm watching, I'm reading right now, the cane Velasquez case, you guys are following, you know what happened there with the cane Velasquez case. I don't know if you know what happened there. I heard something happen. Tyler, you know what, you know the story?

Yeah, he, he, uh, somebody had assaulted what his four year old daughter. Yeah. Uh, tens, if not like a hundred times times and he shot at the guy but hit the father if I'm not mistaken yeah so so came Velasquez mm-hmm probably not a guy's daughter you want to mess with you have to legend yeah and the guy goes and kills the guy

uh... actually kills a uh... uh... he's going after the guy he's going after the guy, he's going after the guy. He's going after the guy, but accidentally, anyways, so he kills the guy or he kills a enormous four miles and one seven miles away. 33 and we sound a car super court of elections, according to the estimate, Blascus, with the night bill early this month after he was arrested and charged for allegedly trying to kill a man amongst other things who was charged himself or allegedly molesting Laskis's younger Relative right young relative can you make that a little bit bigger so I can have known this for laskis for 11 for 15 years And during this time an inactive athlete and UFC represented our company with dignity always treat others as respect Dana's talking about he was a model of example of how professionals should carry out carry them

So projecting a positive energy of see white has joined come on carry themselves projecting a positive image you have seen, white has joined, come on, and other people go a little bit higher. Anyways, so Cain has helped me more occasions. Okay, people are saying good things about him. Here's the point, when he comes out to kids, man, it's a very different situation. Kids sometimes when they're kids, they do things to each other when they're kids.

Like, I got a call. Guys running a real estate office and their kids, both, are at the office. Young kids, under 14, under 12, whatever it was. Maybe one of them was even four and five, young kids that they had at the office. And they're in the other room doing an appointment. And they come in, the two kids are falling around with each other, okay?

Four or five years old, okay? And they're like, how do we handle this? Is this gonna mess with their head or not? And they're calling me, this is one of the lengthiest conversation I have with them, because they had no idea how to handle this situation. It's a pretty wild situation, whose fault is it in that situation?

Right. Four-year-old's fault? Is it a five-year-old's fault? They're both, what do you call it? They're both, so I call it? They're both so I'm like do I'm not I'm not call somebody and process it with them But you know, you can't do anything with the kid at this point My daughter being five years old, you know other kids come to our house and they're playing and they're going away You're always worried about when they go in the room by themselves doors got to be open

You know who they're playing with and adults got to be watching Even if you let a younger kid watch, how disciplined is that kid to watch? Even if they're 13, 14 years old, I'm still not comfortable with that. I'm not comfortable with a babysitter under the age of 40, to be honest with you. I know this sounds kind of weird. I'm just not. I'm not comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with a babysitter that's a little older. But I've had many weird conversation with the boys, many weird conversation with the boys many weird Conversation with the boys, but with Senna you have to talk to the girl from an angle of look you have something that guys want And unfortunately, there's some bad people out there and you need to know you got to process it with them like he's talking about my concern here

Is not as much the kids as it is the parents. Yeah, we had dinner with a parent the other day and I said, so how do you bring it up to, oh, I'm not gonna bring it up to them. It's very awkward. Like, what do you mean it's very awkward? You can't just 14 years old. I'm not gonna bring it up to you. You got to talk to your kid.

You don't think he's already, she's already going through it. You don't think she already knows about sex and other people are trying to get to. You're not happening out of 11 years old with boys. You don't think they're doing it at 14, I think the challenge in here, going back to Chris' help shape the mindsets of, because I don't think school teachers are doing it,

because they're worried if you do with God, but you offend some of it with transgender and all these different sensitivities they have, what should parents be thinking about right now? How should they process this? Well, I think, again, it's being proactive. And if you need to read a book, if you need to do research, if you need help, if you need a professional, there's nothing wrong with that.

But you need to at least start having a conversation. And again, create the opening for a child to come to you and say, I have a question, is this okay? Is this appropriate? And that's the best you can do. And create that because you can't rely on the school. Yes, there are internet safety classes. Yes, there are wonderful organizations that go into schools to try to educate kids.

But at its most organic level, it's what happens in the house. And it's the comfort level that they feel. And again, you can make the rules, however you want them. Computers only in public spaces. I control the access to the internet. I control who you talk to on the phone. But at some point, they're gonna figure out a workaround, they're gonna get on the internet.

And I've had, I've given speeches where fathers say, I just won't allow it I'll take it away. Well, they can go to Starbucks. They go to the Friendshouse. It's the entire city's required so you have to say look You're protected here. This is your safe area and you're generally safe everywhere you go And the reality is when it comes to predators the vast majority of kids who are preyed upon are preyed upon somebody they know Right even though there are many many scary Stranger cases and I deal with them all the time

So it's really about creating the comfort level with the family to say hey And if you have a daughter You can talk to your mom if you're uncomfortable talking to me, but I'm here for you and there should be nothing off topic. Yeah, yeah, you know, the whole thing when I'm talking about babysitter on their 40, I'm talking about like guys, men, women, you know, it's a different story. You were doing an interview and you said in all these cases you've had with catching a predator has ever been a woman and you said none. No, it's never been a woman and you said none. None. It's never been a woman. It's happened, but the therapists or the experts in the area have always said to me that when you see the female predator scenario, you're more likely to see the teacher student.

The female predator does not like the anonymity with a male predator, sometimes can thrive on it. Right, right. But you know, it's crazy yesterday, I don't know who we're sitting down with and we're talking about, why is it that teachers in Florida is women that are who said that somebody, John said that. John said that yes and when we're doing

a P.B.D. product, yes. Prep, and he says, you know, Florida, it seems like it's the women teachers who take advantage of young boys. How does that happen? How do you have that, how different is a conversation with your sons? If you don't have some sons.

Traditionally, you know, and you hear the comments all the time, like that'd be a dream come true or whatever, you know, it's a fantasy come true for a young man. But it's not, and it's inappropriate. And it's not healthy, obviously. So, you know, look, I remember in public school it didn't happen at Brother Rice, but in public school or in college,

you know, there were very attractive professors, TAs, teachers, you know, whatever. And there would be chatter amongst the fellows about that. But the reality is, when it comes to young kids and young boys, it's wrong. We have ages in the law for a reason, you know, and it's illegal to have for an adult to have sex with somebody who's a minor. And those laws are in place because it's hard to process. How do you talk to your son about that? What do you tell him? Like, I was 13 years old.

I'm in eighth grade. My history teacher's name is Miss Angulo. Everyone been, sir, every one of us has a teacher. What was that one movie with Dustin Hoffman? The graduate. The graduate. Right, you know, some legendary movie. So, boys have these fantasy teachers that they think about, that they help them grow up. What do you tell your son? There's no rush to fulfill this fantasy. It's natural to feel it. And again, I'm not a therapist. I just play one on TV with predators. But from where I sit, having sons who are 30, 28 almost, and youngest, my stepson is 20, they're out of the woods pretty much.

But when my older ones were younger, you know, it's all about respect. That's about, you know, you don't have to rush into this, right? You got your whole life to experience certain elements, right? Take your time, be a kid. Yeah, that's easy to say. It is easy to say.

15, 16 and your hormones are raging. And that's a hard teacher, right? I get it. I get it. I don't know about teacher, I get it. I get it. I don't know about that. And I lived it with two boys. I walked in one time and my son will kill me for telling the story.

But we left the house, came back, drove by, going out to dinner in the front door of the room. And I go in and I go down the basement. He's in the hot tub with a girl. And you know, there were, I don't think they're driving it. And I all of a sudden I said, look, first of all, you can't have a party here without parents home. That's number one. Number two, you put her in a situation where she could be embarrassed because you weren't thinking of her how this made look or appear. So...

But they were both, what, 16, something like that? 15, 15, something like that? Well at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with it, but I had the conversation. You got to see how this could look and what if her dad You got to see how this could look, and what if her dad, strolled by, would you be comfortable with that? Yeah, I don't know. Think about conversations are gonna work for 15-year-old boys.

I don't know. I just, you know, let me ask you something else. Sometimes you pray for the best, you know, and hope everybody figures out, but I think if you preach respect, yeah, you're halfway there. Well, here's just another scenario

that is a little of a gray area. Cause I remember being a senior in high school and there was like a freshman girl that you're talking about the laws. I was just about to say that. Yeah, so how many 18 year old boys are hooking up with 15, 16 year old girls? Well, depending on the state.

You're going to school together, right? Like it's not like it's that big of a difference. I joke around with the girl I dated when I was 18. She was 50. The girl's 38 now with kids. It's like, what are we talking about? But I think that's the time. It's the time.

Oh my God. Right, but that's why in many states, if you're 17, 15, it's not illegal. If you're 30 and 15, it's illegal, as it should be. So, you know. But it's the 18, 15. It's the 19, 16. Well, that's the, it's like,

well, is it we go to high school together? We go to school together, you know. And that's the 1815, it's the 1916. That's though, it's like, well, is it, we go to high school together, we go to school together, you know, and that's the weird part. I'd even take it a step further that you're branded for life. Like I worked with a guy who I think he might have been 19 and she was 15 or 16 and her dad didn't like him and now he's been branded as a sexual predator.

Well, he probably had to register. Right, or even if like you're drunk and taking a leak outside and get arrested, you probably had to register. Right. Or even if like you're drunk and taking a leak outside and get arrested You you're labeled as well. That's that's obviously you know at some point You know in some areas we lost common sense in this right if a 17 in a 16 year old are dating And there's an issue That 17 year old probably should not have to be prosecuted or registers as sex of matter I mean, that's just common sense.

I mean, that within a year or two of each other, and that's why the laws have changed. Now, you know, it's the teacher in the 15-year-old student, yeah. Different story. Different story. But I mean, we sometimes in an effort to have zero tolerance policies, yeah.

Find injustice. I think- And I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I have seen what you've said. No, you shouldn't, if you get caught outside of bar, you're naming a public, you should not have to register to the sector better, that's not right. By the way, Nick McKinley and I were talking yesterday, okay. And Nick McKinley from Deliver Funds, which- Human trafficking. Yeah, human trafficking.

I don't know, familiar not only with them, okay. Absolutely. For some folks that are listening, he's right now raising money. I'll put the link below, I gave myself yesterday. If you find it in your heart to contribute, they're going right now, doing stuff with Ukraine and Russia. I'm gonna find the link and put it below.

I asked him a question about what's the profile of people who are child traffickers, right? What is the profile? What does this person look like? What is the profile? For parents to know, how do you know who's a child predator? How do you, how do you, you really don't, is the answer? And that's the fighting part of it. We've had guys surfacing our investigations or doctors, teachers, members of law enforcement. And yes, there are characters who surface, who might as well have the word predator tattooed across their forehead because they look langie.

They've had criminal contact with the law before in this area. But I think, and again, I'm not a therapist, but in my experience, these guys break down into three different categories. There's the younger offender, right, who, 19, 2021, who finds a girl who's in her early teens, says, well, I have a hard time talking to girls in person. I'm going to do this online.

And if it works out, great. At some point, she'll be old enough and it won't be illegal. We've got the hardcore heavy hitter on the other side of the spectrum, the guy who would be the little league coach, you know, the bad Boy Scout leader, the guy hanging out at the food court at the mall. This guy is a stone cold pedophile predator. Can't fix him. And then you've got this group in the middle, you know, white collar guys often who have

real jobs in a real members of society and oftentimes have families. They have a predilection towards wanting to be with a younger boy or girl. But they wouldn't act upon it without the internet, the addictive nature, the anonymity, and the 24-7 access. And at some point, they get involved in these conversations and they cross this line between fantasy and reality and they end up knocking on our door. We had a guy in our Connecticut investigation

who was a real estate executive who I had met on the commuter train between Connecticut and New York. And here he is showing up for a 13 year old boy in our investigation in Fairfail Connecticut, shocking. So you don't know what secrets somebody may hold in your everyday moving around town, in your casual acquaintance.

It's a very interesting thing you just pulled up Tyler. It says, profile of a predator. They're aim is to gain your trust first before your child. Think about that statement for a moment. Your child is not the initial target. You are. Why? Because you are the gateway to your child and your child's trust.

If the adult gains your trust, he has become a trusted adult in your child's trust. If the adult gains your trust, he has become a trusted adult in your child's eyes. And this means your child will be much less likely to disclose abuse by that person, thinking that you are, will be angry with them or will not believe that this trusted adult would do such a thing. The information in this section will be taken primarily from the book, the socially skilled child molesters,

different generalities, how is it that so many child molesters get off? Get by with what they do for decades without being caught? First of all, please be aware that they do very often get by with what they do or doing because getting commos like no one's ever heard of. So, interesting. Trusting the parent first.

Well, that makes me think a Larry Nasser, or like a doc gym that's- Oh, yeah, oh, Michigan State University. I mean, you must know that story very well. I do know it very well. And it's horrifying what he got away with and how he got away with it for so many years. And it was a doctor at Michigan who molested players.

It is up to school administrators to monitor this. And in the nassar case at Michigan State, there were warnings. And because people in the athletic department were more focused on football and basketball, they were not focused on this issue with the gymnast. But these brave women came forward, not pleasant, hurtful, and told their stories. And that's what it finally took for him to face justice.

But what a horrible human being had been more. Oh, you could feel it though in the court. Oh, yeah. You could feel the darkness. You could feel the like, you know, just the way he would stand. And imagine how the parents feel. Yeah. Being sometimes on the other side of a screen.

Didn't one of the parents jump out or was that a different case where? There was an incident in the case. Yeah, one of the fathers got upset and backed it out. What can you, can you, I don't relate to that? No, I do. I can relate to that. I thought you were going to say you can blame him.

Yeah. There's other high profile stories like, obviously, what was the Joe Paturno, Jerry Sandusky, crazy situation. I'm sure you have Jean-Fier Epstein Harvey Weinstein and then and even within politics everything that happened with Matt Gaetz A handful of months ago the guy out of Alabama Roy Moore. Yeah, Anthony Weiner. I mean, it crosses the landscape You're given this profile, but what about these high profile people, the Jeffrey Epstein's of the world? I think Congressman. Yeah, it's a powerful, narcissistic personality disorder and they think that they can get away with anything they want because they have wealth and power and

Epstein's a great example of that because he was so well politically connected in Florida. And I'll tell you an interesting backstory. A few years before it all exploded, I had a series of meetings here in Florida with investigators and lawyers who were in the case. And I actually tried to, he had already done his time down here and was out. And I tried to fashion a way to do a sting in New York with him. And the levels of security were such that it was virtually impossible. And at the time, victims were not speaking up about it.

So honestly, I got busy with other stories. It was the Miami Herald and Julie K. Brown, who stayed on that story every day, chipped away at it, convinced the victims to speak out the survivors. And is that kind of local reporting that is so important? And without the Miami Herald's reporting on this, there may not have been criminal charges. And so, you know, I've got to give, you know, a lot of credit to her and the Miami Herald and other people worked on the story there. Once they indicted them, obviously, you know, a lot of credit to her and the Miami-Herald and other people worked on the story there.

Once they indicted him, obviously, a lot of people jumped in, were reporting on it. But it speaks to the importance of, you really got to stay on a story like that, because it's hard to get at somebody. I mean, look at how long it took for the Weinstein story. He was working with women who had wear two pairs of pantyhose because if you got aggressive

with them, they'd have one extra layer of protection. Imagine going into a business meeting, being a female executive and thinking you had to wear two pairs of pantyhose for your protection. How shocking is that? What do you mean two pair pantyhose? There was a victim who wrote an op-ed piece in the New York Times about her experience with Harvey Weinstein. She was an executive. And she would wear dress

protectively to give her extra time to extricate herself if he became aggressive sexually with her as he was known to do. Extra undergarments. Extra undergarments. Speaking of Epstein. And that just to that I mean the whole thing is horrible for so many different reasons, but when I read that for some reason it was just so shocking that anyone would have to think that way and that a guy like that could maintain power in any industry. For decades. For decades. Speaking of Epstein, you know obviously I don't know if you have strong feelings on who killed him or anything like that, but his partner in crime literally was this Jelaine Maxwell.

Jelaine, yeah. Jelaine Maxwell. What's, we covered what happened with her and their sentence. She's been convicted. Yeah, what are your, like, she's basically in a complex in what's going on there. Absolutely. Well, I think she was hold accountable, which is good and proper. I think the interesting thing will now be if she gives a proffer to federal investigators

to say, here's what I can tell you if you'll cut my sentence. And she's got a lot of time to think about that now. And she's not the kind of person who's used to being in federal prison, although she deserves to be there. Federal prosecutors will have to make a decision. And she'll have to make a decision. And she'll have to make a decision. Usually you give up the big boss, but the big boss is dead. The big boss is dead. But how many other people were enabling him? How many other people abused young women in this syndicate? And there are a lot of powerful wealthy men allegedly who were in this circle. Did they actually act?

Did they do something? I don't know. Then you go into deep into, then you go to the island, then you go see his Palm Beach place. You were investigating a part of that, weren't you? A part of it. I didn't really go to the island. Okay. I mean, we want to Peter and Neigarts place. Yeah. Peter Neigarred, we were intimately involved in that investigation. So Peter Neigarred is the fashion mogul, made jeans for any number of private label operations

and for dillards. I mean, big, big business. And he was based in Canada, but also in New York And he had a big compound in the Bahamas at Niagara very weird looking thing go to his Oh, it's like Jurassic Park Jurassic Park just Google Peter Nygard Bahamas compound. Yeah, go to that you'll click on images. You're not gonna believe this guy's place Holy shit. Yeah, that doesn't even do a justice. Like, there's pyramids in there. There is structures in there.

It looks just like Jurassic Park. Yeah, I mean, look at that. And what was going on here? It's like a playground for kids? What was he doing? Yeah, so he was, it turns out that Nygarde has a history of sexual abuse and predatory behavior going back some 50 years

involving thousands of victims, not just models who wanted to work for him. Yeah, he prides himself into looking like a lion. He's got these 78 year old guys, 79 now, and he's at this long hair. And he used to have these pamper parties and he'd invite these women there. But he would also sexually assault young women

in the Bahamas who would be lured to his compound. They would be drugged violently, sexually assaulted, and many of them were never taken seriously. We got involved in this a couple of years ago and did a documentary that's now on a Discovery Plus called Unseemly, the Peter Nighguard investigation. And the reason this came to light was his compound was next to a billionaire hedge fund investor, Louis Bacon, in the Bahamas.

They got into a beef over property lines and environmental issues. And in the course of that legal battle Bacon's people and I'm sure you know who he is found all this information out give it to investigators and I knew some of these investigators and we got involved in it the New York Times got involved in it to the CBC up in Canada got involved in it and we Put this expose together, but I was down in the Bahamas interviewing these victims Right before COVID great expose by the way, well, thank you. It was shocking put this expose together, but I was down in the Bahamas interviewing these victims right before COVID.

Great expose by the way. Well, thank you. It was shocking in its brutality. And so he's been arrested now, and he's in Canada awaiting extradition. He's been indicted in New York, and they're looking at other members of his circle. Is he done, done? Oh, he's done. Okay. He's going to die in prison. He's done, done? Oh, he's done. Okay.

He's gonna die in prison. Yeah, he's not going to trial yet. They're still messing around with the extradition, but he tried to get out on bond, private jet. I mean, this is such a shocking case. This guy, according to the allegations, would impregnate young women. This is crazy, by the way.

Have them. Brace for impact. Yeah, brace for impact is right. Have them get abortions. Harvest Yeah. Brace for impact is right. Have them. Get abortions. Harvest the stem cells from the aborted fetus and have them injected into his body as some form of a fountain of youth.

These are the freaking stories that the QAnon talks about. This guy. Yeah. Yeah, but this is, this is really. What are basically eating babies. This is really like, this is something chrome, my acro. A dream acro. Dream acro eating babies. This is what is it? What is it? This is something chrome of my a cron a cron a cron? Yeah, this is the guy Well, I don't think you and on has any insight into this case

QAnon is its own thing separate of this but I can tell you about the Peter and I got case and in the midst of this two-year investigation We had which resulted in the documentary and discovery plus You know it was doing this case was like a 3D game of chess because we had to get so many people to help and cooperate and coordinate and there was competition and, you know, to get down to the Bahamas and do these interviews. And in the course of this, I get a call from a guy who's involved in human trafficking investigations

and says, you're working on the NIGAR case, right? I said, yes, you are. He goes, I needed to talk to this lawyer. I know, I said, yes, you are. It goes, I need you to talk to this lawyer. I don't know. I said, okay, great. Well, it turns out he's the lawyer for the guy who is a videographer for NIGAR for two or three years and had hundreds of hours of videotapes

on the private jet, going to Asia, the pamper parties, and gave them to us. Didn't even ask for money. And gave them. And it was just, well, it was amazing. So imagine we were gonna do the story anyway. But in the final stretch to get these videotapes, I mean, it was, it was, it was in terms of storytelling

for television. Man, oh man. It was incredible. Yeah, I watched it. So what ends up happening is one of his closest, who he hires to be his assistant, it's very attractive girl. He hires him when she was 17.

She stayed with him for a while. And one day she's sitting there with the people that are managing the property, husband and wife that was managing the property. And she writes like on a note and she says, I need help. I have to figure out a way to get out here. Some message like that.

Then Nigh Guards, top helper in the house, a lady, who's seen a lot of the stuff taking place. One day, her sister is there with her. And he noticed Nygarde taking her sister upstairs. And her sister's 13 years old says, what are you doing? And he smiles, gives a smile. He says, the day I saw that smile, I told my sister, go to the beach. He says, that's when I realized this is, if you're gonna do it to my sister, and I'm somebody, so now you're going to my 13 years as we have a problem here, and the next thing

all these guys came together and flipped and turned against him and obviously the rest is history. There are people like this out there, by the way, and you see similar profiles of guys like this out there. Some of the guys nowadays, my thoughts goes to a complete different place I want to go into that has nothing to do with this stuff is, what is the playbook of investigative journalism?

So walk me through, is it something that applies an investigative journalist in 9-11? Can he also go be investigating to Peter Nygard? And can he also go into investigating a Wall Street, you know, Bernie Madoff, is the playbook, the identical same playbook? It's similar. It's like a different. Well, it's similar.

I mean, there's a template in terms of what we do, but it often starts with, you know, a reporter's intense interest into something or, you know, 40 years into it as I am, you have a lot of contacts and people who will say you should look into this. And a lot of the material that I come across, including the Nicarter investigation, came from somebody who is involved, sometimes a former local or federal law enforcement person who does this privately, who's working for somebody that says, you need to take a look at this. And that's how it starts. And you verify it sometimes that you know, you may find that it's somebody who's got a personal interest

or a vendetta and you have to approach that differently. Then when you find a case like Nygarde where this guy's got to be exposed. And between the pressure that we put on him and the other media put on him, it was helpful in terms of getting him and the other media put on him, it was helpful in terms of getting him and died it. In facing charges.

What do you think about what James O'Keefe is doing? If you said you recognized it, what do you think about what he's doing? I think that's in a different category. I think when you're doing something that's potentially politically motivated and I don't know him, I've been contacted by some of the people who have worked for him for different stories. I have typically stayed away from it just because I have questions about how it works. I don't pretend to have intimate knowledge of about how it works, but I know he's got a political bent, which is his right.

But that's not how I base my journalism. I don't base it because I believe in one political party over another. I base it on justice. I base it on justice. I base it on what people are interested in. I base it on my expertise. And that does a whole different world that crosses a lot of different boundaries. He thinks he's justified in crossing those lines. I can't agree with that.

Do you like how Oliver Stone does it where he just goes from a curious place and he goes and wants to find out what Putin is about, he goes and sits when he wants to find out what Ukraine is all about, he goes and he wants to find out what Castro did, he goes, and JFK he goes through, do you like the style he does it? I do, you just have to remember that it's one man's opinion sometimes, right? So it's a point of view. It doesn't mean that that's true. It's a work that is based upon one man's curiosity

and his ability to spin a story. So JFK wasn't necessarily all true, truth-based maybe, event-based, but it's his theory on what happened. As long as you keep that in mind, I think it's fine with it. I mean, it's really no different than me saying, okay, I wanna investigate Peter Nigard

and put it together a team and getting a production company or me saying, we need to do more predator investigations or me saying, we're gonna go after this guy who's been assaulting the women on social media or any of the other stories we have going on right now. I mean, we got this case that I just was working on last week exposing in a southern state what appears to be a human trafficking ring

involving politically connected people. And think about, you ever watched the first series of True Detective? Yeah, Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. That's what I lived last week. Damn. In real life. Some say that some of the best TV ever produced. I thought it was. And now we're in the thick of exposing it for real. Let me ask you, to Pat's point, because you brought up a key, if you brought up Oliver Stone, curious mind, James O's key. What he does is pretty ballsy. My question is, does it take some brass balls to do this?

Is it take a certain percentage of a curious mind? Like those sit downs, when you walk in that room, how intense are they? How much balls do you have to have to just like, hey, have a seat, buddy, we're gonna have a little talk. How do you know they're not gonna pull out a weapon? How do you know that your life's not in danger? It's a good question.

Talk about that. It's, we bulletproof it as much as possible, right? And as the years have gone by, we have trended more closely to working with law enforcement. Remember the first two we did, we just went on did. I had security, Ronnie Knight was there. It was a NBC security guy and former NYPD, Lieutenant. And so we felt pretty safe,

but we didn't have all the background of the guys. As we progressed and collaborated with law enforcement, starting in the third investigation, it made it safer. We were able to find out more about this guy. Does he carry a pistol? Does he have a permit to carry a pistol? For instance, in Fairfield, when the guy showed up, he had a gun in his car, duct tape, rope.

He was on the list to become a cop. He worked for the cable company. We knew that there was a possibility he had a gun with him because we could do that kind of extensive background. When he approached the house, our internal security coach the decoy and saying, turn around, I'm worried about a gun. We had a mass shooting here at a school,

left up your shirt, as best as we could, and with some other technology, we determined that he probably didn't have a gun with him. So we let him come in. If we think he's carrying, the police will arrest him before he comes in. We don't need a live gun in that confined space. It's not safe.

But to your point, the first time I confronted one of these guys, yeah, my heart was in my throat. You still get a little bit anxious. You're very focused. The guys put their hands in their pockets that make you nervous, put them on the table. But you control the environment as much as possible, and I've done it enough times. You know, we're getting close to 500 guys now, where I can kind of see the way this is going. But you can never take it for granted.

You know, we have a lot of protections in place that we don't show, because we don't want to give those away. And obviously the worst case scenario is that somebody comes in, tries to do something to get attention or create harm to themselves or others, and then our security team has to take action and is badly for everybody involved. We have taken the right steps, I think, thus far, to prevent that from ever happening. We continue to tweak that as we go along. But yeah, you're always on edge when you're doing it. That's what makes it what it is, right?

If it was easy, everybody could do it. Those scenes where they walk in that room, man, it is built for TV, as they say. What we're taking people into the commission of a felony. They see the transcripts, they see the text, they see what has been said, they see the motivation, and then he recoms. And more often than that, they see what has been said, they see the motivation and then he becomes. And more often than not, they call it to me.

Does your job ever make you feel a certain level of pessimism? It seems like you said the first, what, two days, you had 17 guys, then you find out about Peter and I guard and it just seems like every time it gets a little bit worse and it's got to be, it's got to affect your outlook on life. You know, occasionally I get asked that question, and I'm a pretty optimistic guy, actually. You know, I do have a dim view of some aspects of life. And, but I guess I've gotten to the point where,

you know, I know that there's more good than bad out there. And so I don't, I try not to dwell in it. I mean, and I'm able to compartmentalize it. I mean, no, I think when you do something for 40 years, you either let it own you or you put it in its proper perspective. Have I always had balance in my life? I don't know that you can achieve all this

and do everything I've done and have balance, but I have balance now. I'm at a great point in my career where I can do a lot of different things, you know, and I do, and it's very satisfying, but I don't dwell in it. I escape it. I know when to turn it off. I, you know, I built a day into this trip to come see you guys by being in the sun yesterday

and relaxing. You got a good tan. I feel good. You got a really nice tan. Yeah. No, you know, as we're going through this, the reason I'm asking about the investigative journal, there's a lot of things I would want to hire a professional to go investigate. Like, if you look at what's going on today

in the world, what would I love to investigate? What, what, what are tens of millions of people, if not billions of people? What is billions of people in the last 24 months? What would they love to investigate? I think it's only one thing people would love to investigate the last 24 months. What a hell did this coronavirus then come from? COVID, baby. What did they do?

What happened? Could we have prevented it? Thank God it wasn't as bad as something else could have been. Sure. It was more deadlier. We lost many lives, but it could have been 50 million. It could have been, if it was more deadlier, we lost many lives, but it could have been 50 million. It could have been 100 million.

It could have been a lot more people than it cost. So, isn't it worth us going and investigating that? And if we do, what approach do you take? How do you go about it when it's international? What is the right way to do it? Are they really gonna wanna cooperate? Do you get people from the inside to be whistleblowers? How do you protect the whistleblowers to come out and share information?

Because one of the things that is working out very well with James O'Keefe's model is now people are calling him who are with New York Times, who are in those meetings, who are with the CNNs or the Foxes or the OANs or whatever networks it is that they're called CBS's ABCs, they're calling him and they're saying, listen, here's what happened here, they don't wanna share this story because of XYZ. Here's how they protected this guy, here's how they did it. And he's getting Google, Facebook, it's pretty, what he's doing, it's good.

No, I understand which are good, man. So all I'm saying is I think there is a business model. And you know, although what, catching the child predator as a parent, I'd love for that show to be on every day because I think what Sometimes you have these shows like America's most wanted or what was a bad boy's bad boys? Is that America's most cops? Yeah, that was in the 90s. You see these things and some people would say well, you know to catch predator Aren't you training them to even be wiser on what not to do or you putting're putting the fear on me, and cops are in the training people, how to commit crimes in America's most one

as moral way training people. I think it potentially is carrying a hell out of the guys to say, I'm gonna be a little bit more careful. I think the most important thing is, when you create an awareness and a dialogue that didn't exist before, you are achieving your goal.

So anybody can say anything about, you know, you write a book on financial fraud, you know, are you teaching the next people to, you know, mix different kinds of securities and a toxic soup that creates the downfall of 2008? No, we're teaching people to avoid getting into that once again. And it's the same thing in crime reporting. Well, that was crime reporting too, actually. It's criminal the way this works.

But, you know, it's about creating thing in crime reporting. Well, that was crime reporting too, actually. Criminal the way this worked. But, you know, it's about creating awareness in a dialogue. And people are smart enough to make their own decisions. But we're not, you know, we're not teaching predators how to prey on kids. I mean, we're showing how it's done. But I don't think there's ever been a case where some said, oh, I saw it to get your predator in Chris Hansen.

Verboly lambasted this guy. So I'm gonna go do it now and be smarter and better at it. I think, you know, is there a show like that on TV, like network like regular cable TV where people can watch on a weekly basis? What, on the predator thing? Yeah. No, we're shooting them now.

We're out doing new ones. Who are you gonna, who are you going to, it's gonna be in true blue, the new digital crime network that we're starting and launching in November. Oh, but it's not like ABC or ABC, ABC or any of those guys. We're in discussions about that too. I think not like ABC or ABC. Maybe we're in discussions. We're in discussions about that too.

I think it needs to be different levels. Whatever is going to be to the most. Right. And you got a YouTube channel as well, with a few hundred thousand subs. And you've created content on that. But let's go to another story. Sure.

Let's go to another story. Is this the one that just came out? No, this is an older one, right? Professor said, who said pedophiles should be called minor-attracted persons agrees to resign. Did you see the story or no? I did.

What are your thoughts on this? You should resign. Children are children. They need to be protected. You can buy into this whole minor-attracted person's thing, and I'm not an expert in it. But anytime you're saying that it's okay for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a minor, it's wrong. It just is, there's no great area here. People talk about, well, child porn is a way

for these guys to fulfill their fantasy without actually touching a kid. No, it's not. If you go into the prison and you talk to Dr. Michael Berker works for the US Marshall Service, who's interviewed dozens and dozens of these people. They will tell you without exception that there's a link between the viewing of child pornography

and offending. The viewing of child pornography and offending. And offending. It's got to be very easy to catch that though, isn't it? It can be, but you think about, I mean, when people hit the buy it, yeah, but now it's all over the internet. I mean, there are, yeah, there are multiple investigations going on

every minute of every day into child porn. It's horrible. Every time somebody looks at that stuff, it's the revictimization of a child. And that's why the penalties are so severe. But it's not easy to find every image. I mean, it's a painstaking investigation. And imagine the investigator has got to view this stuff,

which is horrible. Yeah, we had a guy on who was a former Facebook auditor. Do you remember what we had a monitor? Yeah, I remember. Oh my God, yes. And he said the stuff he had to watch on a daily basis. He says, we had in this place, we had people throwing up. We had people going to the bathroom.

We had people like, would quit their jobs because they couldn't believe the content they had to consume. People were going insane, man, insane. He says, he says the most, it's damage, it's the most dangerous thing to live and see. It was what, the iguana that the guy was hitting his head

and the screaming, I've never heard of, and he voice like that. But I want to read something to you that's concerning because we're playing a little bit of the slippery slope with the trends of trans side, right? And so this story comes like California trans child molester, Hannah Tubs, Glow's over light sentence

and gel house phone calls, okay? Explicit Los Angeles gel house recordings of Hannah Tubs, a 26 year old trans child molester who received a slap on a wrist. In January, after pleading guilty to molesting a 10 year old in 2014, the picture admitting it was wrong to attack a little girl But gloating over the light punishment. Tubs pleaded guilty last month to the cold case attack Which took place in the woman's restroom at Denny's restaurant when the suspect who was two weeks shy of 18 and

Identified as a male named James Tubs after being arrested roughly Eight years after the crime. Tubbs began identifying as a woman. She received a sentence of two years at a juvenile facility because Democrat District Attorney Gorge, I'm also going to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, laws are almost protecting against. I think somebody even had a, did somebody have a sex change to prevent from having a long sentence? This was a two months ago story. Do you remember that one story where somebody did this? How much of a slippery slope are we dealing with when it comes onto this topic here? Well, I think if you take this case and isolated,

I think the more the question is, did this person, I mean, take the trans out of it for a minute. There was a sexual assault of a minor, but they didn't catch the person until they were older. So at the time of the crime, what was the age difference? Now, gloating about getting away with it is horrible and wrong. And that person probably deserved a higher sentence. I'm not so sure that in this case being trans had anything to do with the sentence. I think it had more to do with the age of the person when the crime was committed. And I know that there have been a lot of criticisms of this particular district attorney out there.

And I know people who work in that office who think that he's too light on some of these crimes, and they don't go after some of the stuff aggressively enough. But I think in this case, the trans issue gets a headline because of what it is, but the real matter of the case is that somebody got away with the light sentence, whether they're trans or not. Yeah, so you know the topic about, well, you know, the pizza guy, okay,

with the pizza, he's like, well, it was consent. Yeah, but it made consent. You can't consent if you're talking about, right? Yeah, he had a marriage contract, this guy is a bad guy. Right, and I've gone back to some of these guys to try to resolve at the time. Yeah, Jeff Sokol, and I went back to him

to reach out as I do with many of these guys to get them to see if they'll talk to me on the podcast. Because I think it would be interesting. And I'm in discussions with some of them who I think may do it. Jeff said yes. Jeff said no. Okay, I'm not surprised.

But here, so maybe you've brought some awesome pizza. Yeah, I've got a plan of pizza from that. The part about the slippery slope is, you know, the law today states what? At what age, if you have sex with a minor, it's what? 18? It's under 18.

Depending on the state, okay. It's different, but it can be, it's usually 18, unless both parties are under 18. So in other words, if a 15 year old girl has actually the 16 year old boy in a lot of states, that's not illegal, right? Because the age difference, if it's... If it's in some states it is illegal.

In some states it may be, I don't know the law in every state, but I know that in many states, if both parties are within a year of each other and under age, it's not illegal. If one party is 30 and one is 15, then that's illegal. And then the gray area comes when somebody, as you mentioned earlier, somebody 16, somebody's 19, is that inappropriate. I can tell you that during our investigations,

the profile of the target is at the oldest 14 because it takes that gray area out of it. So in other words, if it's a 19-year-old and a 13 or 12-year-old child, you can say, well, he's only 19, but then I would argue that, okay, what's the difference between a 19-year-old violating a 12-year-old and a 38-year-old? What's the difference? I brought this up to a guy I was speaking to about 19-year-old and 15-year-old. I said, what do you think about that? Well, you know, that's not cool.

You shouldn't be doing that. I said, okay, how about a 60-year-old dating a 20-year-old? What do you think? Well, I think a 20-year-old is of legal age in terms of consent. So, you know, it may look creepy, but it's not illegal. Yeah. So, the law for me that I'm going to with trans is the following. They're trying to pass, re-follow the story that they're trying

to allow a minor to make a decision to have a sex change. How does that, and they're talking about the same? In Seattle, in Seattle, the minor doesn't even have to get the parents permission And it's against the law for the physician to tell the parent that the minor wants a sex change This is happening in a lot of places across the country Well, I think you know you get into a really complicated area here because and I'm not expert in it by any stretch of the imagination But I do you know read up on it because it's interesting.

There are cases where somebody at a young age thinks they want to have gender reassignment surgery and then has regrets afterwards. Now, how do you put that back together once it's happened? So, just like in a lot of other areas, there's mandatory counseling before you take certain steps. And it would seem this is one of them.

And again, you know, this is all new. So we're all making this up as we go along. We don't know. But there is information out there that suggests that in a certain number of cases, people feel that they want to do this. And then they have regrets and second thoughts and they want to reverse it.

And that's difficult If not impossible Washington laws Now allow teen gender reassignment surgery without parental consent That's just weird to me. You tell me how that makes any sense what comes after that? You know what comes after that to say what's wrong with a 22 year old dating a 13 year old? I mean I'm from Iran and Iran did the age used to be a 50 year old dating a 13 year old. I mean, I'm from Iran. In Iran, the age used to be a 50 year old man could marry a 13 year old girl and when the Shah got elected,

I think he raised it to 15, maybe 18. It's back down to 13 today, by the way. Today a 50 year old man can marry 13. I think it's 13 years old right now, and it's normal there. What if now, you know, stories like this end up passing and people say, oh, you got to let's their choice, it's their choice.

And then people say, I think 18 is too old. I think we got Lord up to 15. Should we fight that? It's a law, right? Should we say, okay, what if they come to a time when they change a law from 18 to 15? And have the country agrees and they say, what's wrong with that? What are we doing now? Now people can say, well, that's just a law now.

We have to follow that law. Well, I think sometimes common sense loses out. And I think we have to find this middle ground. You know, we get so polarized in so many aspects of politics and everything else that we're going through today. You know, you get to the COVID thing. I mean, yes, there's a great story there. And I talk a lot of people about that. Is it hard to get to China? Yes, is it hard to get the truth out of China? Absolutely, I've been there, I've done stories there. But we do lose common sense sometimes,

and I think this is an area, I mean, I don't think a 13 year old should be able to decide on their own surgery, no matter what the surgery is. We're on the same page. And I think parents have to be in there. And some millions are on the same page, we do. I can tell you this, and this is the only are on the same page. I can tell you this. And this is the only thing in this whole area

that I can tell you for sure is that when you have a potential transgender issue in your family, the rate of suicide is dramatically lower when a family is open and accepting and has a discussion that I can tell you, that I know for a fact. Other than that, we're making new decisions in an area that we haven't dealt with people. How much do we have transgenderism in the 20s? So go to 20s and 30s.

What was transgenderism in the 20s and 30s? Like this whole thing to say if it's accepted by parents, didn't we just read an article that said the number one step to, somebody abusing your kid, the first step is to win the trust of who. The parents. I mean, that's the same argument as saying Chris, I may be wrong, is to say, let's first get the parents to accept the concept of their kids wanting to go through it.

And then once we win the parents over, and then we can get the kids, but we first have to get the parents to think that it's normal. Because I don't know if this topic was a topic. I'd love to get more of the history of it on when it started. I'd love to see in the 30s, was it a normal thing? Was it normal to talk about these types of surgeries? I know it's been around for a while, but I want to know what's the word.

I want to know the history. Not only the history of it, you know, again, from an investigative journalistic standpoint, like I want to know the out of a thousand people that did the surgery, I want to know the profile, I want to know the parenting, I want to know how to what age, I want to know, you know, siblings, do they have an older sister, older brother, what's the relationship with the older brother sister? Was there an abusive uncle or person that I want, I want to investigate that. I want to know that. But we're so afraid to investigate that.

All we're investigating is, well, parents should be more acceptable about this, this, this, this and that. And I think rather than doing that, we're not putting the time into the real conversation, which is you know, suicide in a military. Why does suicide in a military happen? What is it? What causes suicide in a military to happen? You know, is it away from the family that some people join a military to get away from the family? Are they running away from family? You mean to tell me everybody that joins the army is that patriotic?

I have a hard time believing it. When I was in a military, a lot of guys that were in a military, they were not in there because they were patriotic. They were people that were in a military that actually didn't like the country. They were just people in a military for GI bills. Some were there because they couldn't stand their dad. They wanted to get away. And we had stories of what do you call it, suicide. And it's heartbreaking. You know, I had one of my close friends from, you know, military that went through it, and I saw his relationship with his father. His father would slap him in the face in front of us.

And I'm like, I can't, I can't even be around it. His father was so abusive to him in front of all of us. And he would be so embarrassed when he was around us. So he never felt like he could do anything to please us that. And eventually it took his life. Was that the reason? So education is what it comes down to is wrong going into awareness in a dialogue. That's all I want to know. Like when you said, you said something about James O'Keefe, you said that's an opinion. And then he said, all of her stone is an opinion, right? That's an opinion.

Well, the opinion is on both sides, right? Absolutely. You said you want to get to what was the word you used, not the truth. You said you wanted to, you given, which I agree with. You want to find out the why, let's just say, right? I want to know the origin of it. The origin of it. I want to know the why. I want to know, you know, there's a lot of questions I got. I want to know, do we really make the right choice going to war in Iraq? You know and we're like that weapons are mass destruction guess what? What was this whole thing with the way we handle Afghanistan? That was catastrophic. We just lost 80 billion dollars This whole thing going on with Russian Ukraine right now. What is the real motive?

There's America is America using Ukraine as a Proxy to get rid of Putin. We don't know, I want to know. I'm curious, right? I'm curious to know what some of the things are. Historically, you haven't been in this space for a while. Who was the name of people that would go investigate the heavy duty topics that would come and give the most fair assessment from both sides? Crunkide was more of a personality guy, personality that was like the investigative journalists that will give

both sides of the story just a lot yeah i think uh... i think the sixty minutes guys obviously and and my quality sure uh... our friend john stossal stossal did a lot of great work over the years uh... in in a whole combination wall Walt Bogdanovich, at the New York Times and other places, and the whole teams of print reporters who would go after the Chicago Tribune, going back to the meat packing industry, you know, Upton Sinclair, and talking about all

that. The Chicago papers did a great thing where they open up a bar. And they saw everybody hitting them up for bribe. It was the inspectors and the contractors. But it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was,

it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it a strip club and watch the people come in in New York City. We had a location and everything from the mob supplying the dancers to the people inspecting the place to do the whole thing and then put hidden cameras in and capture the whole thing.

And the lawyers ended up mixing it because there admittedly a lot of issues doing that. You know, how long do you run it? But the interesting thing was that the guys were consulting with me on it said that they could pay for the entire project with the proceeds of actually having a club. do you run it? But the interesting thing was that the guys were consulting with me on it said that they could pay for the entire project with the proceeds of actually having a club in Queens. And it got pretty high up. And they say, we're going to open a room. We had a name for it. The whole thing. Didn't happen. It didn't happen. Well, and I understand why. I mean, the legal questions were just overwhelming and strangling of doing some no-quest. But I mean, the legal questions were just overwhelming and strangling of doing some no-quest. But I mean, and then you're operating this thing

and you've got legitimate people working there, people going there as customers, do you know, what do you do? Yeah, why are the plays with hidden cameras? And that's constitutionally iffy. I mean, to be great television, but I mean, the Lord's show. And the best horror was in the pitch meeting. I said, and it pays for itself, I mean, to be great television, but the lawyer just went in. And the best part was in the pitch meeting.

I said, and it pays for itself, you know, because we'd raise, it was going to be 400 grand to do it. And I think we're going to make back 400 grand in the first year. And we actually had former federal local law enforcement people who were going to consult in this, who had done this for other investigations. And I thought it was genius,

but I understood at the end of the day what the, why it was a fauna grant to do it. And you're going to get fauna grant back. I mean, that would be perfect TV right there. Well, yeah, but then, you know, you got a guy who goes into a club like that for one night and he gets captured on the hidden camera, you know, what do you do with that?

Yeah. And you got a woman who's working in that business because she's trying to feed her kids, what do you do with that? And what point does it become exploitive versus interesting, notwithstanding all the other legal issues? At the 500 people that you dealt with, did anybody ever sue you out of the 500? Did you ever get sued by them or no? They were, excuse me, there were some attempts, none of them successful. And the reason is it's so clear, right? These aren't gray area cases.

The majority of the crime is committed in the online solicitation. Showing up is just the television part that you're asked, and the combination of it. Yes, what James said. James said, you know, I wanna see it on video. You see it on video. Right. It's real. It's not like it's hearsay. You, what James said. James said, you know, I want to see it on video. You see it on video. Right. It's real. It's not like it's here. Say you, they make criminal cases on

the transcripts on the online. Really? All the time. Really? Yeah. Online. Did you hear that because it's a solicitation. So if on a DM and adult is going through with a 13 year old, that can be that threshold. That's the case. That's great, no? That's the case. Okay, that's great to hear. Yeah, when they show up, they often make statements to me that, you know, if they admit the crime, then obviously that can be used. But I've never even been called to testifying one of these cases because it's so clear

cut. Hell yeah. Sounds like Pat wants to put together a team, a task force, a team. You, James O'Keefe, John Walsh from America's most wanted. What was the guy from Cheaters, Joey Greco, and go down to Wuhan and get that thing figured out. Walsh was also a Walsh, was a father. Did you watch it? That's a matter about his father. Oh, Michael, I'll tell you a funny story. So I'm in Miami one time and I'm off and I run into Mike Wallace who was working, doing

something, doing an interview with somebody. And I introduced myself, he was, oh Chris, yeah sure. What was it that I just saw that you did that was so good? I couldn't wait to tell him and he probably didn't see it, but because I explained it and said, he says, oh yeah, that was really good. And he was such a cosmic pro. And it's not like I knew him well. But the couple times that I met him,

he was gracious and kind. And during the media coverage of the Predator story, I was likened to him. And it was a great compliment to me. He was, I mean, he did some, he did Chomene, he did the Shah. Yeah. Multiple times, he sat down with everybody. You know, he was like, yeah, Mike Wallace. Well, isn't it in his documentary? I am Mike Wallace, who was Mike Wallace?

I don't know what it is, but I know what's great, you know, watching them to learn about his story. Go ahead. Well, Pat brought up Walter Cronkite. We're talking about Mike Wallace. People just think that, you know, on the face of it, you're just this guy to catch a predator. You're a real journalist. You went to school for journalism. You've done all this. I wanted to get your thoughts on just the overall distrust in media these days? It's fake news. You can't trust anybody. Everything's so polarized. Jeff Zucker resigns.

Roger L. Cuomo just so much distrust in news these days. As a newsman, this must be a little disheartening for you. It is. I think what you've seen is, besides targeting by politicians, you know, in this catchphrase, fake news. I mean, the reality is, nobody's perfect in the news business, nobody's perfect in politics, nobody's perfect in the financial world. But generally, most of the people try to do the right thing. But with the advent of cable news,

and this need or perceived need to take a point of view, you know, Fox obviously had a point of view and it made them successful. Their news reporting during the day is their news reporting. But when you get to personalities and point of view at night, the same with MSNBC or the same at CNN, it creates polarization and it creates targeting. And I think when you elevate that for ratings,

you take the risk of being painted on one side or the other. And we've lost what happens at 6.30 for the evening news. And we lost what happens between 10 in the morning and 5 at night on camel news, which is generally speaking reporting. I mean, you watch on Fox. You see their correspondent in Ukraine showing this incredible story all day long, and then you get to some of the columnist opinionator,

opinionated people, and they're telling a whole different story and saying what's wrong with Putin and everything else. When all day long, their guys have been dodging mortar shells in the field telling real stories. Do you think they should be a disclaimer, like opinion journalism, opinion news versus actual news? The viewer needs to be aware of what you're looking at. There's such a gray line. It is, it is. And that's what's created this environment. You're watching the four o'clock news with Brett Baer.

And then next on the five is a bunch of opinions. So you got to switch your mind over. That was the news. Now it's opinions. Well, I think I think the concern, it goes from waltz blitzer to boom. Now it's down the mountain. And now you're, so do you think the media needs to be held accountable to say, this is the news portion, facts.

This is the opinion portion. Take it with a grain of salt. I think the best consumer is an educated consumer. And so I think, you I think there is a certain responsibility that we have, but also I think the people watching need to know and be aware that, look, this is just crossed from over, over from reporting and journalism to somebody's opinion.

But you're putting that on the people just... Well, I think a consumer has to be on the news out there. I think people know it. Maybe they should. Maybe I'm not saying you're wrong, by the way. I'm just saying that are we insulting to the viewer by saying, okay, we're leaving the news portion of the day and here's this personality doing it.

I mean, I think people sort of know that. Maybe you're right. I'm not arguing yet, but I'm just saying that, you know, when I answer these questions. I'm not arguing yet, but I'm just saying that, you know, I, when I, answer these questions when I look at these situations, I try to give the viewer who is generally incredibly intelligent, you know, credit for being a person. Are you giving the viewer too much credit, Chris?

I don't think so. I mean, maybe some, but I mean, I think, I think, people say, then, then, Zell says, if you watch the news, you're misinformed. If you don't watch the news, you're unimformed. You got to pick one of the two right. You have to be missing that's a point. That's a point. Yeah. Right. One of the two. Anyways, Chris, it's a spring great. Have a new on. Appreciate you for coming out. Thanks for having me. We're going to put the link below a title. If you can put the link below to his

YouTube channel, is there any other links you would want the folks to go check out? We have the podcast petitors I've caught with Chris Hansen. That's on all platforms now. We've got Watch True Blue. You can get updates in the ramp up to the launch of that. Discovery Plus, Onision in real life, and Unseemly the Peter Nygarde investigation and a lot

of stuff in the pipeline. Let's put that all in the description as well as the chat. And for some of you guys that support Nick McKinnelly's work, he messaged me yesterday they are working right now to relocate 30,000 orphans from various locations in Ukraine to Poland, just like the Afghanistan. There's a budget that's needed for this crisis. We put the link below, Tyler put that again. They're trying to raise $450,000.

They've raised a little over $100,000. Still needed another $350,000. If you support what he's doing, please go find it in your heart. If you do, to support his cause to get to $450,000. Are we doing podcasts again this Thursday or no? Tomorrow. Tomorrow with Mr. Mike Baker.

Oh, we got Mike Baker tomorrow. CIA Mike Baker. Okay, sounds good So if you like the CIA stuff, we've had Mike on before join us tomorrow on the podcast with Mike Baker. Take care everybody. Bye bye Bye bye bye