PBD Podcast - JFK Assassination Round Table | PBD Podcast | Ep. 207

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

In this fascinatingly historic episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by James DiEugenio, Dr. Paul Gregory & David Montague to discuss the 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy. TOPICS Why won’t Biden Release the JFK assassination records? The biggest conspiracies on the JFK assassination Was LBJ behind the JFK assassination? Was George Bush Sr. behind the JFK assassination? The percentage of People who believe JFK assassination isn't a conspiracy Why most Americans don’t trust their government Who was Lee Harvey Oswald? Interviewing Lee Harvey Oswalds Best Friends Did JFK want to get rid of the FED? Will we ever know what happened to JFK? Protect and secure your retirement savings now with this complimentary precious metals guide. https://bit.ly/3UWFgJD PBD Podcast Episode 207.  Visit James' website KennedyAndKings.com: https://bit.ly/3VAhvaz Purchase James DiEugenio's book "JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass" - http://bit.ly/3OqdaUW Follow James DiEugenio on Twitter: http://bit.ly/3AwtvSf Purchase Dr. David Montague's book "Overnight Code" - http://bit.ly/3gvN6uP Purchase Dr. Paul Gregory's book "The Oswalds: An Untold Account of Marina and Lee" - https://amzn.to/3TZgmrM For more info go to PaulRGregory.net - http://bit.ly/3Owbo4v Purchase Ernst Titovets' book "Oswald: Russian Episode" - http://bit.ly/3AEfq5k Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

I Should be a UC because it's what it's done. Anyways, folks, today's a special podcast. 59 years ago, today, a president who was loved by tens of millions of people around the world was assassinated. And 59 years later, today, we have a very simple mission. Our mission is in two hours to solve who was behind that assassination. Okay, and to do that, we have a few special guests today. One, we have James D. Eugenio who wrote the book JFK Revisited,

who this turned out, ended up being a documentary, a film. There's four parts, there's one part, there's a bunch of different things with it. At Oliver Stone here a few months ago, we talked about the book together, but James D. Genio's book here with Oliver Stone, we have him here, to my left, he's the co-founder of two organizations, the Citizens for Truth, about Kennedy assassination and the Coalition of Political Assassinations. He was co-edited of the assassinations, a book on the death of, death of JFK, MLK, Robert Kennedy, and Malcolm X.

Thank you for being on the podcast. I play here. We also have David Montag, am I saying it correctly? Montagueir. Montagueir on the podcast as well. He is the Associate Vice Chancellor of Academic Affairs at the University of Arkansas, Little Rock.

He earned PhD at Howard University, a very great, powerful university. A lot of friends went there for political science. NMA at George Washington University in crime and commerce and a BA in Morehouse College in political science. He was an investigator for the Drug Enforcement Administration, hence D.E.A. and intriguingly was the head of investigations for the United States JFK Sassination's record review board. Thank you for being on the podcast as well And we have two other guests that'll join us at 10 o'clock at the same time one will be from Belarus that's gonna be joining us

The one joining us from Belarus is Ernest Teovets, who is a friend of Liar Viyalzwal. They hung out together in Russia. It's got his own perspective of who he really was. And the other person that'll be joining us will be Paul Gregory. When he came back to the States and Dallas, they had a friendship together. They'll give us our perspective on what he was really like. Was he capable of doing what he did?

What was the experience of a friendship with them, and I will take it from there. So the reason why we have both of you here is because you both have a different feeling of what happened with the JFK assassination event. Now, here's what's interesting, everybody, and you know, both of you were at the same event, it's just this, you came from Dallas.

We flew both of you guys out from Dallas with Cyril Weck's event that's taking place in Dallas right now, which is events called Citizens Against Political Assassinations. We're glad we're having these steps of events so there's not any political assassination. So, James, if you don't mind, take a minute and if you can introduce yourself to the audience,

your background, why the fascination with this topic, and then we'll take it from there. All right. I've been working this field almost nonstop for approximately 30 some years. All right. And the reason I got interested in this is that several years after Jim Garrison did his interview in Playboy, I picked this up and I read the interview and I thought, this is really fascinating. This guy had like a lot of interesting insights and what really happened.

And so then after I graduated from film school at Cal State North, a friend of mine asked me, well, why don't you try and do the screenplay? And I said about what? And he said, well, what are you really interested in? And I thought, well, this was make a very good subject, this garrison guy. So then I worked on this for a while. And then I picked up the daily variety, and I read that Oliver Stone had purchased the rights to Jim Garrison's book, and go, what is that idea? It is. And so what I did is I turned my research

into my very first book, which was the first edition of Destiny Be Trade. And then I started Pro Magazine, Citizens for Truths, which was an early website. And today I run the website of canadiesandking.com. The reason this has stayed with me for so long is as time goes on and I see the political situation that we have in this country,

I really do believe that a Kennedy's assassination was a landmark in a steadily disabling country, you know, that somehow has lost its way. And you know, if you're haunted by the past, which I think we all are in this case, then I don't think you can really understand the present. All right, so that's why, you know, I, from an historical view, that's why I've still worked this case. How about yourself? You know, I wasn't alive when President Kennedy was killed

assassinated. And, you know, in connection, I do agree. I said that they think that the Kennedy assassination, Martin Luther King assassination, Bobby Kennedy, certainly pinnacle moments that impacted our history. And, you know, I mentioned at the conference last week that the Morehouse College of School, it was the same school that Dr. King attended.

So, you know, I grew up in the DC area and we had a very patriotic family, just believed in, you know, of course, taking advantage of the opportunity to vote, being active and, you know active and understanding the world around us. And by happenstance, I ended up joining the review board. And that all honesty, I had no, Jim talks about how you learn more about it and it became

intrigued. Same thing kind of happened for me because I remember, you know, I was with DEA at the time I took an Amtrak down to DC from New Jersey. And when I sat across the desk from David Marwa, who was the director, executive director of the assassination records report, you know, he was kind of explaining, you know, what the agency was about. And in my mind, I'm piecing it together. Like there's a federal agency to look at specifically this.

And I had no idea as to, you know, how deep and how many other investigative groups, you know, think about it compared to like 9-11, there's been 1-9-11 commission. And then you think of the multiple commissions that groups have put together to look at these assassinations. And so it really became something of great interest to me just as a unique opportunity. I had come with a lot of investigate, like interviewing experience.

I had worked the white collar side of DEA, so I would interview a lot of people, you know. And so, you know, for me, one of the most interesting thing was getting a chance to talk to witnesses, kind of getting them to read, you know, in some cases for the first time opening up, and they felt they couldn't before, people in tears. So, you know, this, this, this, these events, you know, impacted my life in a major, major

way. And, you know, one of the things that I think that is important is for people not to forget. The records need to be released. December 15th, Joe Biden apparently were being told the records for John F. K. S. Ascination are going to be released. And the reason why they said it wasn't released because we were supposed to get it earlier was significant impact that a COVID-19 pandemic, if you guys remember that October 23rd, 2021,

but hopefully by December 15th, 2022, it will be released. And Trump was also one that has a take a little bit to releasing the docs. It seems to be a trend. I mean, it's been 59 years and they're still not releasing it. What's your speculation on why this thing keeps getting backed up? I think your audience probably needs a little background

on what the review board was and why we're in this situation today. When JFK came out back in 1991, it created a firestorm of controversy. And because at the end of his film, Oliver Stone wrote that the files of the House Select Committee are classified until the year 2029, which was the last investigation and they closed in 1979 so the question was why do we have to wait 50 years to learn the last things about John F. Kennedy's assassination so Congress created this what we call assassinations record review board Which had unprecedented powers in the history of record declassification. Well they did not finish their work.

They only had a four-year lifetime. And so what happened is this dragged on and dragged on and dragged on. The terminal date where everything was supposed to be let go, was 2017. So that comes up and Trump says about a week before, I'm really looking forward, he tweets in, I'm really looking forward releasing these last files on the JFK assassination. And so what happens? He doesn't, he didn't.

Why are they afraid of releasing it? What we, this is what was in the, most of the papers, is that he got a last minute visit by the FBI and the CIA and what these guys do, and because I know this for a fact, is that they come in and they read the riot act to the, and by the way, let me add this,

the only person who could have stopped a declassification was the president because it says that right in the long. And so they usually give you this speech about if you let these go, you're going to endanger the life of a lifelong agent or some kind of ongoing operation. Now, how the same agent could be in place 50 years later is really amazing to me. So, he, what he did is he asked for a six month extension. Then, when the six month extension was up, he asked for a three year extension, which actually went beyond his presidency. And so, this then bounced the Biden.

All right. And Biden released, I think, about 1,400 pages. And he said, we have to wait because NARA is somehow behind the curve due to the COVID epidemic. What they were doing in the intervening 20 years, I don't know. OK. And so now, the new terminal date is About three or four weeks from now December the 15th and I can tell you for a fact

That Biden was already planning to delay that because I know some of the lawyers You're aware that they got a lot of publicity that they filed a lawsuit Against Biden and NARA in northern california to force the declassification he said well in that lawsuit they have that information that he was already planning on another delay but what's the do you know the reasoning behind it i mean it's it's got it he was on the review board so why are you guys delaying it as you know maybe we ought to blame you what is wrong with you that why do you think they're delinquent if you were to give your perspective before we get into what we

really think happened so I'm you know I it's a very personal thing for me after all the work that we put in to actually find people you, find records or arrange deeds of gifts, transfer of records to the National Archives and Records Administration, all the visits to Archives I and II and other facilities around the country to do research, just like Jim said, you know, I kept looking on the JFK collection that's on the National Archives Records Administration website, to see my record group. And here's the interesting thing. You can find records of mine

in other people's records groups, but not in mine, which doesn't make sense, right? So I'm just as upset about this because in my mind, we were doing that work to literally provide a centralized place and let the American people decide. You know, don't hold a thing back. I mean, yes, I was taught to do, you know, skip tracing, find people, things like that.

We didn't have Google. That's a skill. You have to be taught to do that. There are sources and methods associated with how I was able to do that. I don't think those things should be released However, it like you said it doesn't take 20 years to Just take those things and what threat and you have to really have an actual threat against the country and against national so you know you know You watch movies like argobad what is that sound that clicking noise you hear it?

What is that clicking noise like somebody's like somebody's clicking something. Do you hear that now? Okay. So, you know, Can I, can I, can I, can I, can I, I want to say something, hang tight. So, so I'm from Iran, okay. And I watched a movie, our go.

And you watched a movie, our go with Ben Affleck and you see what's going on in Iran, with the whole movie, Canada, everything that they did. They waited 30 years. Now, how come you didn't release this earlier? Well, you got away 30 years, CIA, whatever the numbers are, right? Right. And then you look at this, they waited 30 years. Now, Kakami didn't release this earlier. Well, you got to wait 30 years, CIA, whatever the numbers are, right? Right.

And then you look at this, this is 59 years. Okay, it's similar to when they said, you know, the COVID investigation cannot take place till 2076 or whatever the number that they put, that's like 50 years from now, 40 years from now, right, 50 years from now. And it's like, why can't this be not investigated for 50 years?

Is it because the people who are making those decisions are not going to be around 50 years? So then it goes back to the point of 1963 today, 59 years. Most of those guys have been dead that were a part of it anyways, only a few people of that. So who's protecting who at this point? Is it legacy? What's being protected? See, one of the things that John Tuneheim talked about when we interviewed him and his, the rest of his interviews in the moon, all right, he said, these guys really, they don't wanna give up anything.

All right, and he said, he described the first meeting with the CIA and he said he threw up a document on the screen and he said, what on earth could you possibly object to in declassifying that document? Because the ham there was nothing in it that seemed to endanger anything. All right.

And so the CIA guy looked at the document for about a minute or so. And they're waiting and waiting. And he says, give me a couple of minutes. I'll think of something. See, that's the kind of attitude these guys have. That's been inbredded into their whole being, you know? I was hoping we could figure it out right now,

but apparently we can't force these guys to release them. Maybe we got to take a different route. Let me first look at what I want to talk to you guys about. Pull up the different conspiracy theories that we have, Jeff Geese, assassination conspiracy theories. The grassy kn Kessas nation conspiracy theories, the grassy knoll umbrella man, which I think was actually in this 1991 movie

that Oliver Stone did, Al B.J., Ted Cruz is that, obviously that came out of nowhere during the elections. There's so many different stories that we read about. Jack Ruby, the mob, I've interviewed Samy DeBull, Gravano, Michael Francis, they said the mob had to do with it. Clint Hill said, no, I think it's just exactly what people think. It's Harvey, Lee Harvey Oswald. Jim Jenkins, who was in the room holding John F.K. is a brain,

one of the four people in the room. So this just didn't make sense. It looks like somebody cut it before they did. And then the new brain weighs 1500 pounds. How does a brain weigh 15, not 15 hundred pounds? 1500 grams after it's been shot. That doesn't make, there's so many different things that you hear with these conspiracy theories

and some are just plain and safe and saying, no, Cyril Wex says this doesn't make, he's trying to figure it out from his perspective, but I wanna hear your views on what happened. And before we get into these topics and have our guests from Belarus as well as two of Liar Wioswals former friend, one claims they were best friends, give their perspective.

One is a doctor, now they're both, one's with the Hoover Institute. The other one's a doctor, I believe in Belarus was in their Olympic team or national team. So these are not just regular people in the streets given their opinions. They have some perspective to give.

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Access to information that you have are any of these conspiracy theories do you give them any credibility or do you say now? You know what we know is exactly what happened? Where do you stand with it? You know, it's interesting. That's a great question because I remember David Marwell made the comment when he was interviewing me because Ann Butterman was actually head of investigations when I first came on board. And when she left, I took over.

Surprise. I didn't expect it. And obviously technology played a big role in how we're able to do our investigative work, but to your question. You know, I walked in, Dave Marlowe made the comment that one of the reasons he wanted to hire me was because I did not have a perspective either way when they hired me. You know, we did have some people that were single bullet, some people that were conspiracy, that worked there, you know. And quite frankly, I will say I really enjoyed my co-workers working

with them. We went through a lot of things. I did have some people try to tell me to not push on certain topics. When people would bring things to my attention, and I always saw doing the investigative work as wide of a net as possible until I really understand I need to follow it if somebody brings it from a assassination research community or government or whatever a witness. You know I interviewed a lot of people. I talked to a lot of folks. I had to review Oswald's belongings at archives too. all the investigated material, including some body things from his body. And after looking at the autopsy photos, the brain of record, all those different things,

my personal take is I don't see how anyone could have assassinated the president alone. That's my personal take. How anyone could have assassinated the president alone. That's my personal take. How anyone could have I think was conspiracy. Okay, so you think there was somebody involved in the shooting. It wasn't just lead by himself. I think I think there's definitely more than one person for sure. Okay, and so which direction have you, if you're in that space, I'm assuming you've spent endless hours studying it. So do you have an idea or even a level, I mean, at this point in the game, to say 100%, it's very hard to say 100%.

Everything is theories that we're trying to, get closer to it. But what do you think happened? If you're saying another person, which one do you believe? So there was the radio evidence that Robert Groden put in during the HSCA. I had talked to witnesses and dealer applies like James Taegg,

for instance, and others. There were so many people that kept talking about, they thought shots were coming from the front, you know, and what they, what the officials and that they give statements to law enforcement and that those statements did not end up in the war and report. I mean, I didn't make those things up. People just independently were saying those things to me when I was tracking them down and talking to them. And so after a while, I was like, hey, I wasn't there.

I've studied, I did read a lot of books associated with the assassination. I did work very closely with Doug Lauren and others to really get perspective on the different stories associated, but a lot of the folks that I talk to, I mean, I walked away, not physical things, the stories. I don't see how any one person could have done that. James.

On the day of the assassination, Malcolm Perry and Kim Clark, two doctors who worked on Kennedy and the ER Room of Parkland, had a press conference briefing the press on what they had found. And Malcolm Perry stated that Kennedy was hit in the front of his throat by an entering projectile. Kemp Clark said that there was a large gaping hole in the back of JFK's head.

Both those would indicate that there were shots from the front, right? Because exit wounds leave much larger. All right. And so as Malcolm Perry was leaving the podium, a guy in a suit grabbed him by the arm and he said, don't ever say that again. This is an hour and 45 minutes after J. of K was killed. That evening, in the morning, early in the morning, Perry got a call from the Bethesda morgue, and it was the Humes and Boswell II

of the pathologist working on Canon. We're trying to talk him out of his story. And they said, if you don't take that back, we're going to bring you before a medical board and get your license taken away. Now to me, that would indicate somebody is snapping on the cover up about this thing within 24 hours of Kennedy's assassination. And it wasn't any mobster, okay, it wasn't any Cuban exile. It was somebody in a high position because we know that in the morgue that night, there

were very high position Pentagon brass. And one of the guys there, Apollo Conor, said that Hume's told him to go over to the gallery and tell that guy in the corner to take that cigar out of his mouth. And he walks over, O'Connor walks over, and he looks at it and it's Curtis Lemay. The joint chief of the Air Force, he walks back to humans and he says, I can't tell that guy to think that's Curtis Lemay. What was Lemay doing there that night? And so these are all indications that this was kind of a high-level plot all right to go ahead and get and get and and like I try to I believe that the cover-up was planned with the conspiracy. The cover-up was planned with the conspiracy.

Yes, meaning. Meaning that they knew that they had concealed certain things immediately after they assassinated JFK and they were looking for ways to do it in advance. Another example being, I'm sure you're aware of this, Jefferson Morley and his work on John Eadies, the high-resistant guy official. His group had the first newspaper blaming Oswald of killing Kennedy for Castro. That was like within 24 hours of the assassination. They were getting that story out.

And that was a CIA sponsored journal. That was a CIA sponsored journal. They were paying a part of the county. 24 hours prior to that. No, no, 24 hours a part 24 hours prior to that so so when no 24 hours after 24 hours after so so when you when you hear So for me I look for motive and I look for strategy and I look for strange, you know You know reasons why somebody wants it to happen doesn't want it to happen the enemy of an enemy is a friend

The enemy of a friend is an enemy all this stuff that look at, right? Okay, so let's look at it. There are pictures. Can you pull a picture of, not this one? If you can pull up pictures of John F. Kennedy and LBJ. John F. Kennedy looking at LBJ, okay? So when you look at John F. Kennedy looking at LBJ, there are many instances where you know, you just don't see a lot of trust in the way he looks at him. You don't see a lot of where he's worried what's going to happen here. So it's kind of like the case where he has to go get him as a VP to help him because he had Texas and et cetera, et cetera. And he had a lot of power.

And LBJ was more driven to become a president than JFK. Was JFK wasn't really supposed to be the president out of the candidate, was supposed to be Joseph, the oldest son, John F. Kennedy, kind of like, he's the last guy that ends up becoming a president. And so you look at LBJ, a lot of ambition there to become a president. Okay, that's one person you'll look at.

The other one, mob, what, you know, John F. Kennedy was trying to do to the mob, making their life a little bit tougher, RFK, his brother, so could have been the conversation of the mob talking to each other where you have this Potential conversation with multiple mob bosses talking to each other saying look are you seeing what RFK is doing targeting everybody after we help them out on Chicago or Illinois? Yes, we got to take this guy out one of the mob bosses says if we helped them out in Chicago or Illinois. Yes, we got to take this guy out. One of the mob bosses says if we take him out, John F. Kennedy is going to spend the rest of his life targeting us. But if we take John F. Kennedy out, RFK loses his power.

He won't be able to do anything. We start with John F. Kennedy first and then we go to RFK. We're done with. We don't have to worry about them coming after us. So, okay, cool. let's go with that route. And then, you know, if you've seen Godfather too, there's a scene in Godfather too, we're in Lake Tahoe, they're trying to kill Michael, they come and shoot up Michael's house with the glasses. I don't know if you've seen this one scene

where it's getting shot up. And then right afterwards, you see them in a creek, there are a couple other guys come and shoot them, and they're dead, and the shooters are, you know, dead at this point. Nobody can find that who paid them to come and try to kill Michael. If a mobster is trying to kill somebody, they hire somebody to kill the person and then they hire somebody to kill the killers who are going to kill the person. So you can sit here and speculate and look at all this stuff to see what the motive is. Who benefited the most from John F. Kennedy being assassinated?

I don't know if you're aware of this. After the 26 volumes of the one commission were published, which was in November of 1964, three months later, Johnson sent the first combat troops to Vietnam. That's a line that Kennedy was never going to cross And that's very clear to any historian who studies this case and I don't have to tell you What a big amount of money was made on dredging up things like Cameron Bay Bell helicopters Huey et cetera. You're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars Okay, that we're spent over there. And so this is why some people consider what Eisenhower referred to, which I'm sure you're

aware of, what he called the military industrial complex. We much never let them encroach on our human rights and liberties. All right, so I believe that that was at least part of the reason for, see, this whole debate that's sprouted after JFK came out. They now have, these guys declassified so many records on this issue, of this whole issue about Vietnam, that I don't think it's debatable anymore.

JFK was never going to go into Vietnam, and he was getting out at the time of his assassination. I'm sure you're aware of that, the issue in order. And remember, Patrick, there were no combat troops in Vietnam, only advisers at the time of JFK's death. There was not one combat troop in, when he was inaug's death. There was not one combat troop in when he was inaugurated, there was not one combat troop in today was assassinated. LBJ changes all of that within a matter of weeks. Some say it's actually days. All right, and there's that famous scene in JFK, which I'm sure you're aware of where he's talking to the joint chiefs and he says Just get me reelected and I'll give you your war

Okay, so I think that's one of the very serious motives in the JFK assassination I'll just piggyback agree with that. I'll piggyback as well and talk about you mentioned RFK. I mean You know, it's it's no secret that, you know, it'd be part of her to Evelyn Wood. And she was on a record on a documentary talking about LBJ and the discussion between Bobby Kennedy and JFK and getting LBJ on the ticket to put them on the ticket with him for VP, you know, and what a heated conversation and you talked about the lack of trust, you know, and that was clear from the beginning, but you know, Jim, you know, you know, exactly right.

There was tension for different goals of the two people, for sure, between the two, you know, J.F. Can and L.B. J. And you also, Jim mentioned Curtis LeMay, you know, the joint cheese. And it was a very famous movie made about, it's called Seven Days in May, you know, it's an old black and white film about, you know, Lech Koo, you know, and we think about the level of power struggle that we're

talking about here. And of course, you know, as I mentioned before, both Bobby Kennedy, you know, being so insistent and working very diligently to fight organized crime, organized crime was a dirty word back then. It was allegedly non-existent. You know, and there were a lot of people that did like, so my point is there were several people. I do think the push to try to do Vietnam was a huge thing. There are a lot of people that these civil rights issues

of fighting organized crime. There are a lot of people that had a lot of different motives. Patrick, you're aware that Kennedy liked that book so much that he got out of the White House so they could film John Frankenheimer was a director and he's, that's a great book. I'll get out of the White House. You can use it as a prop, okay.

That's how much he was so concerned about what the story was. Can I add one more thing? Yeah. Because it's interesting, you know, as you mentioned, you know, when we were doing our work, our mandate was really different, you know, and at first I didn't realize how different our mandate as an agency was to be able to do the work we did. We still had some things we weren't able to finish, like we said, you know. But when you talk about motive, the fear in the general public

that the lack of trust, people lost their trust in government after this assassination has happened, and so many people were just completely amazed that they were free to talk, you know. And it was something to, you had to be there to be part of that and to experience that there were a lot of people that, you know, we had subpoena power.

A lot of people requested subpoenas to be able to come and bring records. And for a while, a lot of people didn't believe they actually could talk to us. A lot of people didn't think they could talk to you. Right. Okay. So Tyler, if you can, another thing I want to bring up is the follow-on. The story about, and I don't know where you guys stand with this.

The story about George Bush's senior, you know, for many years, asked, where were you on that day? Were you in Dallas? You were seen in Dallas? I wasn't in Dallas. There's a lot of talks about George Bush's senior. If you can pull up that one picture, I just sent you. This one here, I just sent you.

This one here, if you zoom in a little bit, that's him to the right on how he stands, and that's him to the left in Dallas at the book depository. So you hear why wasn't he there? Why doesn't he say where he was at? Why does he not remember that? Was there any, is there any credibility to seniors involved in this? You're asking me. Yeah. No. That's not him. The picture of him in Dele Plaza. He was there the day before.

Okay. The day of the assassination, he was in a little town called Tyler Tyler Texas, which I believe is a home of Earl Campbell And he was he was addressing a group of businessmen also also city of a I'm sure you're proud of the man sell Johnny man sell the legend. Yes, but good. Tyler Texas. There were at least a hundred people there Yeah, okay, so no that that's now what now now if you're going to tell me was he CIA, did he conceal his, I agree with that, you know, when he became CIA director, which I think was 75 or 70. You know, he, he, I believe he was dishonest when he said he had no connections with the CIA. So, so, okay, so here's another question for you with the family, John F. Kennedy. Who feared the Kennedy legacy family to think that maybe these guys can be in office for 16 years?

You know, this could be a possibility where, you know, John F. Kennedy first, eight, and then Bobby, eight, 16, Kennedy's are going to be, you know, running the country, they're gonna have power over everything, we have to slow this down. Who feared for the possibility of that happening? You wanna answer that, David? Well, I think that we talked about some of the, you know, in terms of economics,

I say a lot of folks have theorized that it was the oil industry as well, but in terms of LBJ's connection. But there are a lot of things, as I mentioned before, that the Kennedy family, a lot of people didn't like them to begin with, didn't feel that they were worthy of holding office. And at the same time, they were pushing an agenda that was changing the course or threatened to change the course and to of the of America to actually focus on other types of issues and topics. There were a lot of people that were very uncomfortable with that.

And again, that's why it, I mean, I'm rightly so. There have been like, we looked at all three, we looked at Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King's assassination, and also JFK. And just like if you look at the HSCA records, having investigators literally looking at primarily the JFK and MLK as well. And you can see that even if you go to Memphis and see the snipers nets for Martin Luther King and to see where they talk about the work of the HSCA, you know, and all those different things.

Who would be the modern day Kennedy last name? Is it a fair comparison to say the modern day Kennedy's would be a Trump where a lot of people in the swamp were not fancivists, or these are complete opposite comparisons? What would you say? Well, John out of Kennedy, if you take a look at his record, he was trying to pass Medicare. He was talking about universal health care, and he was really the first president that actually stood up for civil rights, even knowing that this was really going to hurt him. Very few people know this. Robert Kennedy wrote a resignation letter on November the 21st,

because he says, I have cost you at least half the states in the south with this civil rights program. Okay, if you remember, Kennedy forced open the University of Mississippi. You know, there was a huge riot there. Two people were killed. All right. And then a few months later, he forced open the University of Alabama. At that confrontation, Kennedy ordered 3,000 American troops in case George Wallace was going to bring in the state troopers, etc. All right. So if you ask me, there really isn't anybody today that can compare with both his Kennedy's ability to win very big elections and also the kind of progressive kind of attitude

that he had. All right. In fact, if you take a look at his civil rights record, Kennedy had more for civil rights in three years than Truman, Eisenhower, and FDR did in three decades. All right. It's that simple. Yeah. I understand what you're saying, but I'll start at the same time. Some people would say, if he ran today on his policies, he's not a Democrat.

He would be running as an independent or a center-right type of a guy, because he was for low taxes. He was about low regulation. He was pro-business. He was many of those qualities today that would be seen as a center-right, not a person that's a full-on Democrat. I don't see how standing up to the steel companies

and forcing them to their knees in 48 hours is a pro business. I mean, nobody did that before and nobody's done that. You were what I'm talking about. Yeah, he caught the steel companies trying to rig prices. They basically challenged them on this. And so him and his brother three o'clock in the morning were issuing subpoenas to the steel company executives All right, so you know

I I don't think that that's but a true capitalist would fight against that a true capitalist would be and that by the way Me is a true capitalist by the way that's what that's what he said not going after you know living in a country where There's only two countries in the world where big pharma can do advertisement one is US one is New Zealand and nobody has the audacity to stand up against them. You're not in capitalism if you allow these big pharma companies spending billions of dollars on lobbyists every year and you know doing commercials on all these different new stations CNN and NBC all these places that are getting all these ads because hey here's another 10 million other 5 million other 3 million that's to me is fighting for capitalists. When these guys are price gouging, if you're talking about steel at that time, today you

can talk about big pharma. One pill takes 20 cents to make, you're selling it for $200 and no one's willing to go up against those guys because there's so much money coming from the back end. If a person goes after big pharma to me, you are a capitalist. So for John F. Kennedy to be doing that, I would say, yeah, that's a pro-capitalism move. I wouldn't say that's a pro-liberal move. That's a pro-capitalism. I don't know if you know this.

1963, Kennedy overhauled the whole FDA program for approving medicines to be marketed to the people and about 600 patents, okay, where they were he challenged them because he didn't think that they a past all the safety tests and Be the other test that he wanted to use was efficacy and it was does this thing really work So I believe Kennedy was a radical reformer in foreign policy, and he was a strong reformer in domestic policy. All right. And I'll just add, and I agree, I can't think of anyone, any person or family that today

in the same ranks, you know having that same only reason I make that comparison is because you know they came they were outsiders that they came in they were not and by the way this is not about Republican or Democrat from surround side of Canada's were outside they were not insider Johnson was an insider okay? FDR is an insider. You go to Bush as an insider. You're in the space that you're coming in. The only family you can compare it to, only.

This is not about who's a better president or not. There's only one family that shook things up the way Kennedy's did. And that's the Trump family. So if you compare families to families, we haven't had a president that people feared as much as they feared Trump and Kennedy. The last time people feared a family as much as they do,

hasn't happened for 59 years. That's really interesting. He would bring that up about being outsiders. Because what people forgot about JFK is that he was an Irish Catholic. And he had a meeting with an impossible for an Irish Catholic to become a priest. Yeah.

And he had a meeting with Nehru, the guy from India. All right. And Nehru was trying to lecture him on the evils of colonialism, British colonialism. And Kennedy stopped him in mid-sentence. He put up his hand in front of him, said, look, nobody has to tell me about the evils of colonialism. Because my family comes to make history of eight centuries

of being dominated by the British. So I don't have to listen any lectures on this topic. And when I heard that story I thought that was such an interesting perspective and I was talking to Dick Gregory the late great Dick Gregory one night and He said that when he got back from Birmingham the great, you know, tremendous race riots there Kennedy called him up and his wife, when he got in, his wife said, the president called and he goes, really? And he goes, yeah, he says he wants you to call

him back. And Dick Greer goes, well, wait a minute, it's midnight. He said it didn't matter what time it was. And so he calls the White House at midnight and Kennedy picked up the phone and he goes dick. I need to know everything that's going on down there. Please, all right. And so Greg everyone went on to about 10 minutes and he stopped and Kennedy said, I don't know if I can say this on the air. You can. Okay. He said, oh, we've got those bastards now, all right? And Dix and Dix said, and I started crying because I didn't think any president could ever say something like that. And he said it was, he said after he thought about it,

because Kennedy was an Irish Catholic. He knew what it was like to be discriminated against. And that's why he said that. So again, going back to it, to me, So, again, going back to it, to me, name me a president in the last 80 years that was part of the swamp and tried to drain the swamp. And the people that have the country club type of people that have been in politics for 40, 50 years who, I mean, let's face it, our president just turned 80 years old. Our president just turned 80 years old and he's been how long has he been in politics?

What is the 49 years? I think the more we have to celebrate the 80 years. It's how long he's been in politics There's in anybody that's been in the swamp more than him if you were to look at the swamp By the way, this is both left and right the McConnell that that's a person that's been in this game for how long? Pelosi worth a couple hundred million dollars been in the dispossed Halon, McConnell's wife, Link to China, Halon. This isn't a, to me, it's not about a matter of a, a, a left or right or a Democrat or Republican. And now this is uncomfortable because at all of Estonia and I know politically we're both of you, and I understand that part. For me, haven't lived in Iran and seen what happens when people get into politics and all of a sudden they take control and use their powers to bully people,

I can only think of two people, two families, who had the audacity to face them. And one got assassinated, and the other one went through a different kind of assassinations, a character assassination. But it's a different form of assassination. Because if you assassinate it like I know what you guys are doing with you know citizens against political assassination There are many different forms of assassinating today. You don't have to kill today There's so many creative ways of doing it both of these guys had the brass To go after the government. I mean John F. Kennedy was in NRA member for God's sake

Can you imagine if today Joe Biden was an NRA member, what they would say about Joe Biden? That's supposed to be a Democrat today, John. If Kennedy would be a very different kind of a president, I think he was the last independent president that we had, that he understood things that was needed on the left and he understood things that was needed on the right. But the comparison of the two families, I can only find one other family, Trump and Kennedy. And I don't know if you guys agree or not, but those types of families will typically be a big target. Look at families who are not a target. Why not?

Look at families who are a target. Kennedy and Trump. Why? You're from Iran. I'm from Iran, yes. Born and raised. Did you know, did you know that JFK commissioned a State Department study on the cost and liabilities

of bringing back most of the deck? Did you know that? Okay. Yeah, he did. And in fact, it was him and Bobby Kennedy were so much against the shot. Okay, that they made it clear that if you don't start reforming, you don't start opening up your society, you know, we are going to think about bringing back most of them.

And this caused, which I'm sure you're aware of, the so-called white revolution, which I think is 62 and 63 all right all right And so that's the very few people know this would she ended up being wrong by the way He ended up being what? John F. Kennedy ended up being wrong to bank on Mosadir because you know what that led to oh Well, you're talking about the return of the Muslim fundamental sure, okay I you think Mosad there could have gone against them. I you think he was strong enough to fight against them. Really? I think Moza Deagan Nashor could have. Yeah. I don't think I think and Kennedy favorite Nashor too. So I think I think it's I think it's

You know as much as people want to sit there and say, you know, what a great man Jimmy Carter was. Half the stuff that's happened in the Middle East, we can bring back to Jimmy Carter. Half the stuff, because Kissinger could have helped him, the Shah, Carter could have helped him. They promised they would. December 31st of 1977, Carter is in Iran, toast with the Shah.

This is a very important partnership to us. They leave. We got your back, boom. And then what happens today in Iran, the complete opposite is being happened. And women are being tortured. Women are being killed. What's our government doing about it?

We want to give money to Iran. Seven billion dollars. We want to give them 150 billion dollars. Tell me how that makes any sense. So we can sit here and kind of go in, you know, you're talking to a guy who watched 10,000 men flagellate their backs walking on the streets of Tehran. And I lived there as a kid as an eight-year-old watching outside my window saying, why is there a trail of blood on the ground? Yeah, I said, this is a very different type of a conversation. To me, the same way, why I love what you guys are doing to push the envelope to get us to the truth

We have to also realize man some of the people that were behind this were dirty people from the swamp If you're saying what you're saying who killed Kennedy the swamp killed Kennedy no Yeah, okay, so so then then then there you go that setup did it Yeah, and he was not part of the swamp right would you say so would you say jai would you say trump is part of the swamp? No, okay, so they try to get him as well tell me who's part of the swamp left and right? There's so many names tell me tell me somebody today in politics That's not part of the swamp. Let's see. Let's see what name you're gonna give us Give me a name. That's not part of the swamp. Let's see. Let's see what name you're gonna give us Give me a name. That's not part of the swamp. That's a very powerful political leader. I

'd love to hear it. I'm here. Well God people people in power for a long time are get become part of the game Okay, and there there isn't anybody in power today either in upper level of the Senate, upper level of the house. Okay. And Biden, of course, has been in this, I think the Senate since 1964 or something like that. You know, so, you know, they've all been there a lot and they're very hard to dislodge. I don't have to tell you that. They were very difficult to defeat. Okay. You know, because we have such a close system.

So I can't think of anybody right now in the upper levels who is not part of the game. So the last one thing we can all agree on, the three of us is the last two presidents we had that were anti-swamp, were Trump and Kennedy. It's tough that you have to greet that. Well, kind of uncomfortable. I understand, the only reason I'm saying this

is because as much as you have spent all these years giving your case an argument, which millions of us agree with, who sit there and say, damn, this is a pretty scary thought, and I agree with you. A lot of this makes sense. Who's the problem? You guys, the my challenge, my biggest challenge

when they sit there and you're like, hey, you're talking about all this stuff and you make these arguments. You have one more step to go, and you guys stay right here. You don't wanna take that next step. You know what that next step is? The problem is the swamp.

The problem is we, the people forgot this is their country. They're controlled by all these people that play the same game as the, you know, hey, guess what? Sanders stepped us one out. Elizabeth Warren kicked it. Pete Tuesday, I want you to endorse Biden. Amy, here's what I want you to do. We've chosen Biden's our guy. Hey, I have decided to stop my, I appreciate all the support that we've decided to stop our election. We're gonna endorse Biden and everybody in America is like wait, you were losing and Kamala's gonna be the VP. What? She called you out and the election and she is this a joke? Is like are you guys entertaining us like do you guys think we're idiots? And then we have to sit there and take it

That's a little confusing as well and the same thing on the other side now. Here's what we're gonna be doing and by the way this isn't sitting here saying Trump's approach or how he is and you know McDougall or stormy and this is not sitting there saying you know This is just saying the swamp is so powerful That the only two people who decided to stand up to them one of them was killed the other ones been character assassinated for six straight years since he chose to do it and and you have to say there is some credibility in that Patrick, don't you think that the

what happened in delie plaza sent a signal to other people that you if you try and do something about what's what we have arranged yeah okay uh... it can also happen to you i believe the separator films a clear signal you know to anybody who wants to really try and shake up the system. But I think that, like, to me, I think it also also,

it also should inspire people to say, I'm not backing down. I'm not gonna let you control my life. This thing, as important as I think I am, I'm gonna be gone in no time. Life goes on, my kids gotta have an opportunity like I do I'm not as important as I think I am the country's more important than me right I think there are people like that in America is what we're sitting there and say oh you're gonna do that

to him and get away with it yeah I'm good man I'm I don't like that let me go find 50 other people who feel like me who are patriots let's go figure you guys out and say you can be doing this. You know, connecting that back to the assassinations. I mean, I think you do have people like that. You know, people, you know, wouldn't have had these previous investigative bodies that have stepped up. They've, you know, after the JFK movie came out,

a lot of people are saying, hey, I'm getting older. I want to, I have records. I have records i have got wise a stuff still not released yet you have people that have worked for these groups yet the assassination research community that are daring to write these books and have these conversations and these conferences you know and and and challenge the narrative that's out there so i think we do have a pretty good cadre of folks

that are looking to country first. Very important. You guys are playing a very important role because it's patriotic, it's brave, it's not popular, but you're doing it and a lot of other people who, their job isn't to sit there and investigate and research and pull up articles and go back and read a, how many pages was the Warren report? There's a 488.

Yeah, the average person is not going to read a report like that. I'm excited about it. You know, the average person doesn't want to read an 800-h, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, Can you pull the percentages up of what I just sent you, pull the percentages up? Most people believe in the JFK conspiracy theory. This is five years ago. Okay, if you go up a little bit on the percentage, yeah, look at this, you're on where we're at. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going right there.

So most people who JFK wasn't killed by Oswald alone, okay. 61% don't believe it. And by the way, it's no difference between male or female. 62 and 60, okay? 56% of white believe others were involved. 72% of Hispanics, 76% of African Americans. College grads, 52% no college degree, 65%. So the age is 60, 62, 60.

It doesn't matter Republicans identical look at that 60 or 71 independence think it's even more so Independence are saying no, I think it's even more look at look at Clinton and Trump Democrats a little bit less That somebody else was involved Trump a little bit more. So this has got nothing to do with politics People on both sides are sitting there saying something happened here. Why do we not know about it? No, here's a question for you. Behind closed doors, the people that are protecting this story, that wanted to stay the way it is, which is, hey, one bullet, the magic bullet, that's just, it's what happens. We got to stick to, let's stop talking, guys, can you guys stop doing

these meetings and these events? Like, your bothering us a little too much. You're paying. Why do you think it's necessary for us to know who did this and who was behind this? Why is it necessary for us to know? Why should we know? Why shouldn't we just move on?

Well, I believe it's important to know from the fact that I don't think we've had an honest democracy since. And what this has done, as you can see right there, I don't know if you probably have another graph of this. The public's belief in what the government is saying, when JFK took office was something like 75%. All right. Today, it's in the 20s. And if you look at the graph, the single year biggest drop was 1964 when the war and report was issued. So I don't see how you can have a functioning democracy if you have that much cynicism and they then focus groups on this.

An unbelievable 90% of the public believes that Kenny's assassination caused a period of depression and cynicism to take over the country that had not really existed before. I'm sorry, Jim, I mean, no, go ahead. I mean, anecdotally, that's exactly what we heard when we were talking to people. That's exactly what he just said. We heard a lot of people used that the phrasing is a little different depending who you talk to But a lot of folks said they grew up a lot of people I talked to were witnesses or alive at that time You know and they would say I grew up, you know thinking I need to I was patriotic. I care about my country, you know And they said that that whole period shook their belief you know, thinking I need to, I was patriotic, I care about my country, you know, and they said that that whole period shook their belief in our country.

And for I like, I think a lot of younger people, um, you know, I, oh, it's a different graph now, but I know that when I talk to younger people, I talk to high school students, I talk to college students, and we use actually the assassinations as educating, education tools to think about careers, things like that, you know, like nursing, photography, things like the film. And a lot of them just assume that I talk to you, say, oh, yeah, conspiracy, it's not a dirty word to them, you know, and they just believe that that's just the way things are. And it's more often than not. And then the other part, can you pull up the report he was talking about from 77% zoom in a little bit to see when it went up. So 75% Eisenhower 60s, so public trust in the government has gone from 75 to 77 under Johnson, then

all the way down to it was downward Nixon, downward Ford, downward Carter, and an upward Reagan, downward Bush, upward Clinton, downward Bush, downward Obama, a little bit of upward Trump, and then flat with Biden by the american people don't trust what i can't read it what is it what's what's the public trust in the government with what's the percentage today the percentage today's less than twenty percent twenty percent it's even worse it's worth it and it was it's ever been you know i mean it go under obama obama was the lowest ever where people trusted america it

hit nineteen percent or obama heels fifteen percent or obama where people trusted America. It hit 19% on the Obama heels, 15% on the Obama, where people didn't trust the government. And by the way, I would be curious to know what that event is. That caused it to drop to 19%. That's a 17%. 15% or 17%. 15%.

So yeah, people don't trust them. So, you know, again, to me, not trusting the government. What is the government? I think people don't trust the swamp is what they don't trust. The people within the government, they don't trust. It's not what it was before. How do we get there? How do you think we got here

to have this little of a trust in the government? Well, in my opinion, when you have a series of events, which, you know, I believe are kind of like the equivalent of earthquakes in the 1960s. All right, when you have, you know, at four assassinations, all right, it took place in a period of five years under the most suspicious circumstances. And the government and the government of justice don't do anything about them. And this is what I believe eventually led to the combination of the extension of the

Vietnam War and to Watergate. In my opinion since then, it's essentially been a kind of downward curve sense. You know, the Watergate scandal took place over two solid years, all right? And so, you know, to restore the trust of the people in the government, I really believe it's almost a lost cause now. I guess I like fighting for lost causes.

Okay, please keep doing that. Keep doing that. You know what would be an interesting thing for you guys to investigate next. I had a guy on general spawning. I don't know if you're familiar with general spawning or not. And general spawning says one day he's been asked, he's working for the US government. He's been asked, he was a former general of the Air Force, lived in China for a long time. He was there to learn about the systems of China, comes over here, and he's telling

him what China's vision is, long term. And on one side, McConnell is sitting down, the other side Biden's sitting there. Both of them were not happy about his message about China because McConnell's wife, there's lineage goes back to China and the power that his wife has, and then obviously Biden's linked to China as well, neither one is happy. And then he says, immediately, I got fired, right after. They hired me to teach him about China

and then all of a sudden I'm being fired. I think James, if whatever you choose to investigate next and study, I would be very curious if you would have any interest in studying the swamp and seeing what really goes on within the political world. You know how people say they, they, they don't want us to be released. They don't want people to know. They, well the title of the book should be, who is they, okay? Let's go figure out who this they community is, the they party, right? Because once we figure out the they people who are protecting all these things

from people knowing about it, I think then we can lead to accountability. But I think if you wrote that book, you would need 24, 7 protection to make sure you're safe. And I don't know if you want to live that kind of a life. Probably not. Probably not. Probably not. Probably not. Do we have our friends here from Belarus? We have one of them. Okay, so if we get one of them out, before we get these folks out here, to you, obviously you've had to study Liar Bioswold, who is he to you. Obviously you've had to study Liar Vy Oswald. Who is he to you? What kind of a person was he?

You know, we've read all about it. We've seen his, you know, inspiration, his wife, his, you know, what he was linked to. We heard what he did to different folks. Who is Liar Vy Oswald to you? Well, Liar Vy Oswaldwald, I believe is probably the most complex 24-year-old that probably anybody has ever studied. I mean, I mean, he this is a guy who's has so many facets to him so many unusual moves to his life Okay, that even though we only lived to 24 people have written books about him. All right in my opinion, I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was recruited into intelligence work

at a relatively young age. I mean, how many Marines study the Russian language? Okay. How many Marines then get a hardship discharge six months before this supposed to be regularly discharged, then going ahead and travel into Europe and then the Soviet Union and try to bargain with them about selling them secrets to the YouTube plane and then get shipped 400 miles out of Moscow to Minsk because the KGB thinks he is fine. All right, then he comes back home and

now listen to this carefully. We're supposed to believe Oswald is a Marxist, right? Who does he live with first? The white Russian community who want to overthrow cruise chief and bring back the czar, all right, and then where does he go next to New Orleans? Cuban exiles who want to overthrow Castro and bring back Batista? What kind of a communist does that kind of stuff? All right, and then he goes back to Dallas and he's so, so lucky to get this job at the Texas School Book Depository, which just happens to be the building that the parade is going to take a right turn in front of. So the secrets of Lehigh Vios world are

still coming out. All right. To have a couple of minutes, you just explained a very interesting thing. All right, um, to have a couple of minutes, you just explained a very interesting thing. They declassified the work of a woman named Betsy Wolf, who worked for the House Select Committee. Her job was to study the CIA file on Oswald. She asked for every division's charter. I think there's nine in this CIA. All right. She read over every charter, studied it.

All right. And then she did an imaginary graph. This is what Oswald's files should have done at the CIA. Okay. And then she goes, okay, I'm ready for the file. She studies the file. Guess what, Patrick? It didn't do that. It didn't do

anything like that. All right. His files should have gone to what we call the SR division, Soviet Russia. They didn't go there. They went to some place called the Office of Security. Why is that significant? The Office of Security does not set up a 201 file. All right, which that was the most common file in the whole CIA. All right, and everybody had access to it. So she started interviewing people. And she finally found a guy who was running the Robert Gambino, who was running the officer's security at that time.

And this is what he said. He said, look, it doesn't matter how many documents come in. It doesn't matter how they're pre-stamped. If the client goes to a place called the Office of Male Logistics, they will only send his files to that department. What this means is that somebody was rigging Oswald's file in the CIA in 1959 as he's going to the Soviet Union. Why would you do that? It was so unusual that those memos, if you can believe this, those memos didn't get printed in the HSCA volumes, all right? And in fact, her work is all handwritten. In other words, it never got typed in the Memorandum form. The only reason we know about it is because the ARB put what they call the delayed release number on her Memoranda.

What that means is they figured that this can be declassified and say 2004 and this was the Class of 2005 that's how secret the life and career of Lee Harvey Oswald is well let's learn about it we have two folks here who actually spend time with them uh uh gentlemen appreciate you for being on here with us. Let me properly introduce you. We have Paul Gregory, who is a fellow, research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. He's a pioneering the study of Soviet and Russian economics. He holds a PhD in economics from Harvard University. He has the author and co-author of 12 books and more than 100 articles on economic history,

the Soviet economy, transition economics, and comparative economics, and economic demographics. So he wrote a book called The Oswalds, an untold account of Marina and Lee. Paul, thank you for joining us and being on the podcast. And then we also have Ernest Titovets, which I may be butchering this last name, forgive me if I did, but we have him here as well. Never mind. No, no.

He's in Belarus and he's also MD PhD as a researcher, author, translator, and interpreter. He was a member of the Belarusian national sailing team. He has an author or co-ored six seat research books for ten pat fourteen patents and over four hundred research papers and as an interpreter he translated three books and uh... wrote a book called the real laws walled uh... based on his close friendship with the american

six decades ago had no reason whatsoever either political or personal to murder john f kennedy, thanks for being on. So thank you for having us. Yes, so Ernest, hello Ernst, hello. Hello, Gary. Have you guys spoken to each other before or no? Have you guys had any kind of interaction? We thought of a change of email. Oh, so it's only through email. You guys have never done a zoom or spoken to each other No, no, no time. Well, we're glad to make this introduction I've been waiting for great guys. Oh

Fantastic fantastic awesome So if you don't mind if if Ernest let's start off with you if you don't mind taking a minute and share with us Your experience with Lee and share with us your experience with Lee, how are we also the audience knows, how the relationship was started, what year was it, what he was like, give us a little bit of background. Well, let's travel in time back to six days. In this country, we isolated society, I was a fan of English.

I studied it very hard. And well, and I believe that's why I get in touch with the Aussie world. It was, he came, it was 1960 and that's all our meetings, all our friendship, was in that surrounding that Soviet route at that time. It was the only foreigner whom I could speak English to, I mean a native English speaker, and also he was sort of a window to the Western world, not to tell us political size, I was very curious what people were there behind the eye. behind curtain. And our friendship was in this, nothing political about that. Just two guys were the same age, met Spogli's same language, from some other guys around speaking English, for all the leaders, the English too. And somehow we got together, it had all been, that was it.

But we just led life to young men, people who just discussed things, discuss politics, discuss music, we will both on music, classical music, go to opera, listen to tape recordings, then just heading away time, we we say with tape recorder, when I started English, and there's a lot of fun. And so, you know, I can't go into detail within the progress of other vintage time. I just described all that in my book, right also Russian episode.

But what I want to say that I saw him as a human being, there was not overlaid of those, well, what was after the assassination, didn't it? So when you hung out with him, you never saw him capable of doing what he did. Like, did he show hate? Like, you know how sometimes you're hanging out with a friend, like I have friends in the army, we had a couple.

Well, I see. At our level, he was a little friendly, my old person, as I know him, no aggression at all. And in my book I give many examples and other people would have turned wild and started fighting. That was not all these way. Got it. And you know, so my impression of him was very mind, a very reasonable person, it's a very important written person, dedicated person. He studied Russian before going to the Soviet Union and to study Russian, it's something,

it's a very difficult language. And again, he got it. Well, the system, he can hear the subject of the system. He was after the idea of a brewing life for poor and unprocesting that he stayed. At certain time, the Bayesha 15, he read Marx's Teaching he found the books of when dusty shells the library and he was in a way as possessed with the idea he got the Griefed of Marx Genu who happened it's an everything got it. Let me go let me go to Mr. Gregory as well. Thank you for that. Paul,

how about yourself? What was your experience with him? What was he like? I think Ernst Newley, during the best period of his life, he had friends. He was looked up to, he was the only American in Minsk. So I completely understand and accept Ernst's description of Lee in Minsk. I met him during another period, which was after his return to the United States and to my hometown of Fort Worth, where he and Marina arrived, Lee had expectations of grandeur. He was going to publish his historic diary. He had written extensively on Marx, Angles,

socialism, capitalism, and so forth. So he thought he would return to Texas as a celebrity who could finally avoid a manual labor job, and I think he had told Marina the same. So what I met him, it was a period of growing frustration. There were no signs of violence other than the fact that there was a lot of abuse going on within that marriage. It was a terrible thing. Guys, Eric in the back, can we increase the audio? I don't know why you guys decrease it as much as you did i can't hear for the last ten seconds let's increase by ten points please continue sir i i couldn't hear you keep

going the limit right now that's much better that's much but that's not on you it's on our guys on the back go for it all-cathlete talking about i was talking to guys in the back so so when i met them uh... they were just getting accustomed to life in America. Lee understood that it was important that Marina not know that they were really starting out at the bottom of the ladder.

Lee was making a $1.25 an hour. He was telling Marina that he was destined for greatness. So, and I would say something interesting is the fact that it was quite obvious that Leigh did not want Marina to understand American life. Because if she understood American life, she would understand that they were living really a life of poverty.

So it was quite a concession when Lee agreed that I would come to their house regularly and speak Russian with Marina and with Lee, by the way. So whenever we met, we spoke entirely in Russian. So I would say, I caught Lee at a point of increasing frustration. And so I would say that's the best I can do with describing him. Well, let me ask you this. One thing I would say is, although he was working

at manual labor, he dressed well. He was very neat. I think this was also a characteristic of Lee and Minst. God, what would you say about Marina? What was Marina's personality like? Was she also ambitious and believing in his vision of who he could one day become? Was she a saying, oh my God,

Lee's a special man, he's one day going to be da-da-da-da. Was she more like just a supportive spouse? She was the opposite of a supportive spouse because she recognized early on that his ambitions and dreams were totally unrealistic. So instead of being a supportive uh... wife with respect his ideas which he understood

were unrealizable she really uh... spoke with scorn about these uh... wild ideas got it uh... uh... james what do you think in hearing both of their takes with the cuz you've also studied him uh... either what questions you have a thoughts do you have what they're saying?

I I met Ernst Tittivitz, okay, he was in Washington for a conference and be a little closer to the mic He was I met Ernst he was in Washington for a conference. I believe in 2014 the first question I asked him is When you first met Lee, did he speak good Russian? And he said, yes, he spoke very good Russian when it went at first met him. Now, this goes back to the point I wanted to make. Oswald spoke good Russian when he left the Marine Corps. He went out with a girl named Rosling Quinn who was learning Russian from Burlitz to get a job in the State Department. She said, Oswald spoke better Russian than I did. And if you study this thing, Russian is one of the most difficult languages there is to learn.

It's not like Spanish or Italian, one of those romance languages. It's a very difficult language to learn. But Oswald knew it pretty well when he left the Marines. By the time he met Ernst, he was speaking pretty much Ernst. Would you say he was speaking fluent Russian when you met him? Well, yes, I think considered with very heavy American accent. And I was under impression that whoever taught him English didn't pay much attention to Russian phonetics. Otherwise, he thinks the message, household, work, newspaper, language,

he was quite proficient, and there was no problem, everybody around had no problem to understand him. That's the way. And excuse me, if I may, if I may comment on Lee in United States just to continue what Gregory said, you know, Lee was very determined. And I don't think he was frustrated in a way as far as what he wanted the accomplished was concerned. But in the first place, he delivered a brilliant lecture at your G-Sute Disabilities College and professional debt, believed he got university education. He was professor of proficient in Russian affairs, and that was rewarding to his, well, as a researcher. Again, he delivered rather

offspaded in radio debates, exposing his view, and he's there still against their experience and decommunists and decass of people. And he went through with prime flying colors. All that taken together means that he, the first blade was satisfied. He got satisfaction. The result of his post-political work is going to make some taking problem. Political activity.

Again, he organized this very play for Uber Pemity. I believe that knows his idea starting his own party first as a fringe party and then to turn it into a real party to put forward his ideas and put an unpractical and unpractical ground. So I think he was quite, there was not a response in him at that time. He determinatively did what plan to do. That's my vision of that. For Marina and Lee, Marina was rather a practical woman. She or

other was after things household, things earthly, and she never interested in what, in Oswald's idea, there was, there were boring him, she wouldn't listen to that. And as far as her ability to grasp American life, why did she marry her? Ernest, if I may, why, Ernest, if I may, why did she, why did she marry him? Either one of you guys, Paul, do you know why she married him? If there is no, what, what was the reasoning for the marriage is it just uh... uh... you what was the moment it was it to come out here uh...

are the fact that he had a apartment the fact that he was an exotic american uh... and the fact that she herself of something of a maverick so but uh... earn earn s would have a much better sense because i was not And the fact that she herself was something of a maverick. But Ernst would have a much better sense because I was not president at that time. Got it. So Paul, maybe let me ask you a different question. Your friendship with him or the relationship that you guys had at the time.

And then when you see the events that take place with Oswald, did that, did you kind of say, you know, I, because of my involvement with a relationship i want to know what really happened here uh... as a friend were you curious on the events that took place with jf k assassination recently i want to know what really happened here you know who who was the motive why would they do some like this and if yes what ideas do you have with what happened with the assassination uh... first let me speak to his Russian because he and I and Marina spoke Russian.

Lee could express himself well in Russian, but his grammar was terrible. And as Erntz says, Russian is a very difficult language. So if he were trained in some CIA camp or some KGB camp, they probably would have taught him better grammar. With respect to my reaction to the assassination, I was watching it on TV along with everybody else. I saw them bring us in a suspect. Immediately I saw it was lead.

And I would say within a few hours, I'm more or less accepted the proposition that he did it and he did it alone. So I've never really had a problem with that. Irrespective of the counter evidence that I've seen. counter evidence that I've seen. Got it. One, one remark. You know, Lee professed stoicism. And he wrote that only those who rarely know it's free telling us what it said.

Support stoicism could support his theory. So he didn't most, he was after the best of earthly life. He was stoic and that was part of his theory. So he was ready to do with all hardships, no matter what, to promote his ideas. I would say the most important thing I have to relate is the fact and Ernst may agree with this, that we have grossly underestimated Daweswald. He was persistent, he was a very smart guy.

smart guy. He had his goals, which he would pursue persistently. So, and much of this is discussed by the fact that I believe he was dyslexic. So, if you look at his writing in English and in Russian, it's pretty bad. So, but I would emphasize the fact that Oswald was not dumb. He was a smart guy, had street smarts. He had, as far as I can see, all the characteristics needed for assassinating a public figure. And we know from Marina's testimony and other testimony that he barely missed assassinating General Walker and Dallas, which shows he has the so-called soul of a killer. Oh, Bay, I had a word here. Yeah, let's go final words here and then we'll love that. You know, well, I wouldn't say it was smart, or it was sweet smart.

With me, I was quite open and he demonstrated this in many ways. Again, I would have brought you that was so interested in my book. Well, violence wasn't in his character in the first place, and it was not in his teaching. He wrote, isn't black and white, that we are against violence.

He believes that historic events after Marx result in that the capitalism would be next best-believeful formation would be socially. He believed that those historic courses will do without what he wanted to achieve without him reciting and rising to violence. And again, in literature, there's controversy about ten, ten general, what's it called? Walker. Walker, yeah. And again, he had a committed this crime, killing President, who'd under undermined his teaching, and that was where he would draw the line. No violence, he suffered a lot to promote his teaching,

and to result in committing this heinous crime would be absolutely well under money in his theory. Then he would be alone, nobody would believe him anymore after this act. So he was absolutely against violence and vice versa. He was absolutely against violence. It's interesting listening to both of you guys, because there is a different feeling and view of him. But gentlemen, appreciate you for making a time to come out here. Paul, we're gonna put the link to your book below

for folks who wanted the Oswald's and on-tool account of Marina and Lee's and Ernest. Once again, Paul, thank you for making a time for joining us here on the podcast. Appreciate you guys. I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I want to say is that I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I want to say is that I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I want to say is that I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I'm going to talk to you about the first thing

I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I'm going to talk to you about the first thing I'm going to talk to you about the first thing every day didn't know. No, I've read Ernest's book. I think at that time it was called Oswald Russian episode and I met him, okay, like I said in Washington. Gregory is essentially giving us the Warner Report version of Oswald. Okay, so there's nothing, you know, that I haven't read about that Can I make a comment about sure he fair play for Cuba committee? All right, they both commented on Oswald and the fair play for Cuba committee All right, what neither one of them said is some kind of important information

Oswald was the only member that committee in New Orleans all right, which is kind of strange. They told him the FPCC, we wouldn't advise you to do what you're doing in a Southern big city like that. All right. He did anyway. All right. And then the third thing is a few of those A few of those flyers, it also was handing out contained the address of 544 Camp Street, which I'm sure you're aware of, you know, was the address of the office of a rabid right winger who had ties to the FBI, the CIA, an American Nazi party. I'm sure you're aware of named Dibamister. So why would Hawkswold be making these kind of flyers based out of that particular building? And these are paradoxes that I believe that have to be explained if you're really

going to try and understand who Lee Harvey Oswald was, you know, and I don't, I think today, you know, there is essentially one solution to this that Oswald was not what they call an on-john provocateur, which means he really wasn't doing what appeared to be doing, that he was really a kind of provocation agent in real life. That's my idea and a lot of other people who know the case fairly well. Somebody just posted a super chat on Mar Elma Halawee, Google order number 11110 JFK ordered since nineteen sixty

three anyone that tries to disrupt the current monetary system gets killed the swamp exists because the fed a private entities in charge of the money supply you hear the story with the fed what uh... what have you found with what john f kennedy wanted to do with the fed some say he wanted and it you know someone not happy about it what do you know about that? Do you want to take that one? I don't know if I have to be honest with you. That's not true.

Okay, that thing about the Fed order. All right, it's not true the way some people spin it. It was really a technical kind of change that Kennedy was making. All right, it was not, but Kennedy did have a dispute with the Federal Reserve. And this is why he hired a guy named James Saxon to be the controller of the currency. Kennedy did not think that the Fed was making it easy enough to borrow money. Okay.

And so Saxon became his agent in that. He wanted a sanction more lending for small farmers, for small businesses. He even said, you know, I don't like the Federal Reserve, their description for qualifying for loans. And he then tried to encourage the opening up of more state banks that would have more lenient lending requirements. And so in that sense, yes, Kennedy was trying to oppose, and I'm sure you're aware that the Federal Reserve essentially represents Wall Street in New York, the Rockefeller Empire, the Morgan empire.

In fact, I think they're signed on to the actual Constitution of the Federal Reserve, the warburgs and people like that, were a part of the Federal Reserve. And like you said, Kennedy was not from that particular branch of the power of lead. I held a meeting in the room at Jekyll Island where you know the whole meeting took place and I don't know if you've been there or not. It's a very interesting place where you know you've actually been the Jekyll Island. I've been at Jekyll Island. I flew our guys in chartered a plane, flew them in, took them there, jumped through all the homes, all the vacation homes. How they lived in this community

and what it was like. And, you know, some guys stayed in some of the properties. It was a very interesting experience. See, uh, what Jackal Island is, but it's actually, I don't even know why they went there. It's not like the nicest place.

If you go to it, it's not somewhere where you say, oh my gosh, what a beautiful place for all these billionaires to have a place to live. It wasn't that fancy. I understand some people's fascinations with it, but I wasn't enamored by it. It wasn't nothing that I was underwhelmed more than anything else when I left. I think you should check a line and was the place for these very powerful and rich people went to formulate the idea of a Federal Reserve bank. Okay, so that's why it's important in history.

Yeah, have you ever read the book, The Creatures of a Tecala Island? What'd you think about that? It's a very interesting book. A lot of interesting information in that, which I didn't pick up anywhere else, you know? Yeah, and again, another conspiracy, there's no way these guys have that much power,

what they do, they don't, that's another one that goes back and forth. So do you think we'll eventually get to a time when you and I are alive, where we're going to know what happened or no? You mean the specific, John F. Kennedy, yeah, assassination. Do I think, well, no, as far as the actual specifics of what really happened, I think it's too much of a cold case, okay? I think we can, I think intelligent people who know the material can make a very kind of what we call informed speculation of what really happened.

I think that's becoming more, with the work that the ARB did, especially, and which I mentioned before about these documents on Vietnam. And we didn't get to talk about one of the most sensational discoveries these guys made, which was, and I'm sure you're aware of it, Operation Northwoods. Okay. You want me to explain that very carefully. Yeah, go for it. Okay. Operation Northwoods was a wild scheme that was dreamed up by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in which they would create what they call a cause, a bell-eye, a great event that would provoke an invasion of Cuba. Some of these were having, you know, Cubans, Cuban refugees go on a killing spree in Miami.

All right, another one of them was to, the most bizarre one was to fly a drone over Cuba, have a tape plane, we're being under attack and blow up the plane. Okay, and that would be the excuse to go in and invade Cuba. And Kennedy took a look at these and he says, no, I don't want to do anything like this. All right. And this was brought to him by Edward Lanzardale and Alignment Lemnitzer. And then Lemnitzer said, well, let's go ahead and invade anyway. And so Kennedy fired him. And unfortunately,

by hookah by croquis, he ended up going to Europe and being part of the whole NATO agreement. So these are some of the things I believe are very important in trying to put together some kind of feasible scenario. Northwoods is really kind of a scary kind of good, but if you want to talk about false flag, I mean, it doesn't get any more bigger than that of our false flag. Let me ask this question from you when when say the John F. Kennedy declassify documents all of them are out and we have them. Are we going to see anything? Is that going to be like oh my gosh you know how come you kept this from us from so many years? Is there going to be anything

revolutionary? And then the second part of the question would be the following. How do we know they're gonna release everything anyways? You know, how are we gonna know that some of the stuff's not gonna be kept that never made it out to us? So two questions. One, will it be that revolutionary, two, can they hold back some documents that they don't want us to see?

Well, I'm in agreement with James here that I don't think that we're really gonna ever get a full clear picture. I mean, we all want that. I mean, that was a reason a lot. We've been doing the work that we're really gonna ever get a full, clear picture. I mean, we all want that. I mean, that was a reason a lot. We've been doing the work we've been doing over the years and pushing for release of records. I think it also ties to the fact that, you know, when we started our work, we knew of a lot of CI and FBI records, but what we didn't realize was all the other types of records that were out there,

that people brought to us, or we were able to look and discover. So did I answer the second part? Okay, all right. So I don't think that we're really gonna see, I think we need to keep pushing though. We really need to keep pushing. Do you think we're gonna see anything? I really can't answer that question

with any kind of authority. I think there might be a couple of interesting nuggets, but if you ask me, Patrick, with what they already did, that was a huge, what they call a quantum leap already. It's just that, except for people like you, and there aren't that many of you, you know, the MSM just doesn't want to acknowledge a lot of this stuff.

And I believe it's because of number one, they missed a boat on the assassination. I'm what really happened. And number two, they completely missed a boat on the cause and in fact, between what happened to Kennedy and then what happened later Like for example the the whole Vietnam war or debacle, you know, so they just don't want to deal with this kind of thing and I and by the way I Believe that the MSM has gotten so bad that kind of opened a door for people like you Okay, because people want to hear, contrary to what they say, they want to hear this kind of stuff.

It's so funny that you're, we're showing the numbers of the trust the American people have in the US government. You know how much of that matches the trust people have in the mainstream media? You're exactly right. Did you, like, the lack of trust and the government in mainstream media matches. So what does that say about the two? Maybe they're on the same team. So that's another part of the swamp. This is why we need people like Kennedy's, we need people

like Reagan, we need people like Trump, we need people who are willing to push the envelope on both sides of the aisle. For that, that is a really shocking. Yeah, that is so. Wow. You're right. You're right. What is it, 21%? Do me a favor. Match it with the US government.

Match it with what you were shown with the US government. So if you can put those two, look at that. That right there, the lack of trust in the public public's lack of trust in the US government matches, it's historic lows right now, it matches public's lack of trust go to the media in a media. So the media equals the government. So maybe they're just a spokesperson on behalf of the government here, you guys,

I want you to say this to the people and they go and tell us, no wonder people don't trust the media in the government today. Yes, so it helps When guys in the media that are in the podcast side there's a lot of them right now that are pushing the envelope who are very interested in this Rogan's done a fantastic job interview and a bunch of a JFK assassination. He's done a phenomenal job at it a fantastic job interview and a bunch of JFK assassination. He's done a phenomenal job at it. Few of us have put some time into it as well, but it's great on what happens when you try to control the people. People eventually find a creative way to get the message out to others and then people say, wow, I'm starting to not believe what you have to say. I think you guys are both full of shit, mainstream media and the government. And I think that's a good thing. And that's why the whole purpose of us having everybody

on the podcast here today, just so you know, I don't know if you know this or not, we'll come into the last minute here, was to challenge you to write a book on the swamp. I think it's the next chapter of your life. For you to take the next couple years, have some courage, you're a great author, you write stuff that makes readers look into stuff.

So if you say JFK, revisit it through the looking glass, okay, where this should say the swamp, okay, looking through the glass house that they live in, right? And we all pick it up and you're not afraid of going after people on both sides. I think that'll get a lot of people interested, especially nowadays. Anyways, any final thoughts before we wrap up? We'll go with you and then James, you'll take us on.

Well, we just saw each other in Dallas the other day. And the question came, there have been so few people that have been connected with the investigative bodies that have written a book about it. And I've been trying to get my book out for a long time. I even did a sabbatical, we call it an off-campus studio assignment, to do research about is a written book about it. And I've been trying to get my book out for a long time. I even did a week, so sabbatical, we call it off-campus studio assignment, to do research and life changes have written, know the books and stand.

But that's actually my next step is to really, be able to finally get my book out. Especially the part part that was, my record group is released now. I always have to be careful because of my connection with the review board that I can only talk about the things that I can talk about, you know, which is a real thing, you know, but that is my next step. And I think that's, yeah. Awesome. Looking forward to it, James. Well, I'd like to thank you for the appearance. And I think it's, like you said earlier, even if it's a lost cause, this deserves to be

talked about. Okay, because I think the mass of American people, contrary to what the MSM says, really wants to know what happened, and they deserve to try and know what really happened because as we both agree, the assassination of President Kennedy was an earthquake moment. Do you think when people become presidents, do you think when people become presidents and they go to Area 51 or whatever it is because there's only been 46 of these guys, when they become presidents, do you think they fully know what happened or they still keep it away from them as well? No, I believe, well, do you think they fully know what happened? Or they still keep it away from them as well?

No, I believe, well, let me tell a story. After Barack Obama was reelected into his fifth year, one of the guys who was working for him, asked him, you know, what happened to all the hope and change? And Obama said, you saw what happened, the JFK didn't you? So I think that's kind of what happens. Yeah. It's a paralyzing. Don't push the envelope. Right. Yeah. I don't know if the fear of death should be that that, man, I don't know. I don't know if you have to choose between the truth and death. I'm not convinced that people are willing to live a quiet lives of desperation and hiding if they know the truth just to live a life that you're going to disappear in a few decades.

And you're not as important as you think you are, no matter how rich, how famous, how powerful you are, your life's going to be gone and people are going to move on with or without you. And I think maybe that mindset of getting to the bottom of it scares a crap of some people, but I do believe there's going to be some true believers that are going to rise up and say, yeah, I need to know exactly what's going on. We need more people like that. We need more true believers. Anyway, I appreciate you guys for coming out.

Thank you for your great work that you've done. Thank you also for coming out. Thank you for your great work that you've done. Thank you also for last minute. We call you to fly out and get on a flight here with us and come to Florida. Gang tomorrow, I'm doing a podcast that I've been looking forward to doing for a while. I am very, very curious about what's going on with Brazil. Tomorrow I'm having two folks that are going to be on the podcast.

One is Rodrigo Constantine and the other one is a Paolo Figuerdeo, who's the son of the former president of Brazil. That'll be on the podcast. We're going to be talking about what's going on in Brazil. It's a mess. I can't wait for that podcast tomorrow for those of you guys that are interested in the prison topic. We will address that tomorrow.

Take care everybody. Bye-bye. interested in the prison topic, we will address that tomorrow. Take care, everybody. Bye, bye, bye.