PBD Podcast - Ken Goldin 'The King Of Cards' | PBD Podcast | EP 140 |

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by sports collectibles guru Ken Goldin, Elon Musk, Drake, Trading Cards and much more... TOPICS Elon Musk buys 9% stake in Twitter Ken Goldin opens cards with Drake Most expensive cards ever sold Logan Paul purchased the most expensive Pokemon card ever What cards are undervalued vs. overvalued How trading cards became cool again Are there Indexes for trading cards Opening a trading card box worth $25,000 Ken Goldin is the Executive Chairman and Founder of Goldin Auctions, the leading marketplace for trading cards, collectibles, and memorabilia. Ken is one of the most widely recognized leaders in the collectibles industry and over the course of his career has sold more than $1.3 billion in memorabilia from many of the biggest names in sports, history, and pop culture. Visit Ken's website https://bit.ly/3LCzS9F To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: [e-mail] Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list About:  Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

Okay, folks, episode number 140 with the one and only King of cards can golden from golden auctions Can how you doing? I'm during great Patrick. We hear you type in Tyler I like you type and fast we can turn that off for some of you guys that don't know who can't golden is here's what I will tell you if you've been following Bitcoin NFT stocks real estate Whatever you're following and you're not looking at the collectible market You're going to want to stick around today for a couple different reasons. Can I think in 2012 Gold in auctions that 800,000 dollars. I want to say in 2020 or 2021 give or take you did a hundred million dollars 2020 2020 did a hundred million dollars and last month alone you did a little over 40 million dollars correct

Which is insanity this isn't cards we're talking about right collectible cards and comics and some of the other stuff But we'll get into that folk stick around meanwhile before we get into everything I want to make an announcement to you We just got word this morning. It's all over the place if you want to put it up Tyler So we can just get right into it. We'll comment into this before we get into a Ken Golden and others and I think Matt Sopalos on his way But he's flights been delayed four or five times. He's gonna join us right in the middle of it So breaking news Twitter share soars more than 20% after Elon Musk takes 9% stake in social media company So let me get to straight so he's been teasing that he's going to buy, or if he should start a company, we talked about this, whether he should

team up with, he'll get it or not, and Peter Thiel, he buys 73.486 million shares, which is 9.2%, but if we're 2.89 billion within a first few hours, I think the stock went up 25% now is 20% which means on his 3 billion he's already made 600 million dollars himself and here's a kicker some people are like well I got a text right now from a CEO of a major social media company. He says Why is he saying passive which is a great question? He's asking me. Why is he saying passive because I'm just a passive investor I'm just a passive investor in Twitter, right? The Elon Musk is saying to a passive investor.

If you can look at who the biggest shareholders are Twitter are, look at this here. Why it's so interesting? Zoom in a little bit. Morgan Stanley Dean with her owns how much? 9.2%. What did Elon Musk buy? 9.2%.

9.2%. Now why did he buy 9%? Why not 9.1? Why 8.8? Who buys 9.2% 9.2% Now why did he buy 9%? Why not 9.1? Why 8.8? Who buys 9.2% of shares? You only buy 9.2% of shares to say I'm the largest shareholder

tying Morgan Stanley ahead of Vanguard group who stirred by the way if you can go a little lower Black Rocker stirred State Street Corpus 4th Lone Pine Capitalist 5th Now he's the same as Morgan Stanley Dean Wooder Black Rockers third, state street corpus fourth, lone pine capitalist fifth. Now he's the same as Morgan Stanley Dean Wooder. So if you're listening to this,

I kind of want to see your commentary below. What you think his motives are, I'm going to give you mine, but Ken, what are your thoughts about this announcement here? I mean, obviously he's had some issues with Twitter. And when you have that type of money, you can wield your influence. And he's saying passive because basically he's saying he's not going to be an activist investor.

You know, not going to demand to change. But I think he's probably doing it and say, okay, guys, try and delete me, try and ban me, try and take me down now. And realistically, when you have that type of money you may want to live your life quietly and peacefully or you may want to let people know that there is a guerrilla in the room and you're gonna impose your will. I like I like hearing that can you check your phone is your phone Verizon or AT&T? It's Verizon. Okay can you turn it off because I don't know if you need to or not?

If you can turn off the airplane mode. Yeah, airplane mode would be great. Sometimes it picks it up. If you need to turn it on afterwards, you can. Well, so very easy on. Is this, because this is breaking news. We're all just finding it's out this morning. Absolutely.

Is this an economic play? Is this some sort of political play? Is this a social media play we're talking about? You know try to cancel Rogan see what happens if you try to cancel Rogan and pull him off a Spotify Who's the first call that he makes you you had to do the clip where his first call he makes is Elon Musk and you bring in a Peter Teal And who knows what they can create so it's kind of like he's stepping in here to say all right I've heard the rumors out there of what I should be doing, what should I be doing. So what do you think is mindset? Is it doing this on a random Monday morning?

Is this an April fools or April fools? First of all, Ken knows this. When you're an operator, build an equity, you don't see anything help and increase your net worth or value then building up a company, right? I mean, you just look at it and you're like, what do I care about buying Twitter? Do I need my $3 billion to triple? No, do I need my three to become 12 billion?

I promise you that's the last thing you're thinking. This is not an economic flat. If he wants to do that, he'll just put three billion dollars and start another company instead of calling it boring You'll call it lame, you know, you can just go build that into a multi-billion dollar company. Make his money back No, there is a motive behind this. You better believe it. This reminds me of the scene from Bugs. You ever seen a movie Bugs in? Yes. With Ben Siegel.

You've seen a movie Bugs. Of course. You know that one scene when he's driving and Beverly Hills and it's nice, Cadillac, I don't know what car it was. And he pulls up to his house and he's like, I like this house. He gets out of the car, goes knocks on the door,

and he says, yes, what can I help you with? I'm buying your house It's not for sale. Yeah, I know, but I'm buying your house. You need to move out. No, no, you don't understand We're not selling this house. Yes, you are. What's the value? I'll pay 50% more than it's worth you need to move out By the house right Elon has the kind of money to just go in and say hey guys You need to move out. This is my little thing here. Get out. I'm minus.

Now here's the thing. So there is no, he's not making a move just because he's just making a move just to make a move. Guys like him don't do things like that. That sounds like that's an active investor. If you're asking me, that is a doubt you pass it. He broke it down, which is very important. He doesn't want the responsibilities of an active investor.

But what would be crazy is the following. There's only one guy crazier that very important to know he doesn't want the responsibilities of an active investor, but what would be crazy is the following. There's only one guy crazier that many people on mainstream media may not want to buy Twitter and that guy is a different guy. This is the one guy nobody wants buying Twitter because now if he takes control and people were bashing Jack Dorsey a lot when he resigned and I'm like, well, so glad he's gone and all this other stuff. Now a lot of people are starting to realize, maybe Jack didn't have as much power as he once did with the voting rights. So imagine if Elon calls Jack, then there's a comeback like a, you know, Brady coming back or a Michael coming back or

Matt, you know, you know, you're gonna know you analogy right there for our card game. And then all of a sudden, you know, Jack Dorsey teams up with his PayPal Mafio, Buddy, Elon Musk to take, you know, the Twitter to the next level. What percentage do you think Dorsey still owns? I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's a big number. Do you think that's less than 9%? There's no question.

There's no question. No, there's no question. I may be wrong, there may be a 12% number, but 13% number is what it is. There's a question. I may be wrong. There may be a 12% number, but 13% number is what it is. There's a 2%, 2%. There you go. Okay, 2%. But that's 2%. Yeah, 2%. So Elon Musk is now sitting there. So who knows what's going to happen? Now there's a few other things. I mean, if he's really wanted to fulfill his move, if Elon really wants to fulfill his move, he needs to buy a WAPO and he needs to buy a CNN. Meaning it

not WAPO because WAPO is owned by Bezos. There's no way he's going to sell it. But he needs to buy a WAPO like Mark Benninghoff by Time Magazine, Bezos bought WAPO, Peter June bought L.A. Times or like 551 or some number like that. He needs to buy something like that and then he needs to buy a media company, a CNN he can afford to buy. If he made a move to buy CNN, people would lose their minds if this guy made some of those. Let me ask you, because up until now, correct me if I'm wrong, he doesn't own anything in the media or social media space. I'm not sure, right? I don't wrong, he doesn't own anything in the media or social media space, does he? I don't know if he does or not. Okay, so obviously Tesla, obviously SpaceX, the boring company, the neural link, it's up

into this point, it's all been, you know, electric or moon or space or something next level. Go to his deepest darkest desires that nobody even thinks about. What is Elon doing with this? This is his first foray into media or social media or as you call virtual governments. Go there. Where do you think he's thinking? I don't know. I think Elon Musk is about freedom of voice and expression and he just wants to give that back to himself and others and he's probably worried that he's pushing the envelope too much that he may be the next guy to be silent So why not buying insurance policy like you and I buy life insurance policy I'm sure you want a key man insurance policy up. This is his way of buying his own key man insurance

Try to cancel me. I think I say brilliant brilliant move hats off to the sky But yeah very very good move so it's a defensive move of anything at the very least you're saying. Yeah. I mean, when you see Buffett buys silver, what do you do in buying silver? Mm-hmm. You know, what are you doing buying certain things that you buy? It's purely defensive. You do an collectible industry as well, but you were going to say something. Go ahead.

I was going to say something about E-line is a guy can wake up on the side of the bed and decide I'm going to do that today. I mean, I'm wondering who he told before he was doing this. Did he clear it with his general counsel? Did he talk to financial advisors? He just one day go out and tell somebody, buy 9.2 percent at the Twitter because, I mean, it's crazy. It is Elon Musk. I mean, he is capable of spending $5 billion or whatever.

Do you think he did? If you have to put your like 50, 50, 80, 20, do you think he did or you think he just made a move? I would think to put your like 50 50 80 20 do you think he did or you think he just made a move? Um, I would think it's 50 50. Okay, so you're saying you think he called anybody? Do you think he called to when I talked? He didn't call his uh, baby mama X girlfriend. She's no longer what's her face my uh Grimes, you know, I know he didn't call anybody. Do you think called anybody? I think I think if there's anyone that strikes me as someone who's like, what do you think? Guys, here's what I'm thinking. I think Elon would would seek some counsel. He seems very reasonable.

And even if someone said don't do it, I think he's a, I think it's a can't point. So you're more 70 30. Yeah, I think he, what about you, Pat? He made me think about, I wasn't even thinking about that until Ken said that. I don't know to be honest with you because I would, I would say he asked because he's got the next three, four, five moves in place. I'm probably 70, 30. How long do you think he's been thinking about this? Oh, a few months. Ever since Spotify tried to take Rogan down ever since, a bunch of people have been silenced on Twitter ever since Jack Dorsey resigned. I think this has been on his mind for a couple of years. Now You're not shocked that this is his first

Play into media meaning it's not Facebook and not Google not YouTube It's specifically Twitter. I'm not at all and I don't think it's gonna be the last one But what is what is kind of shocking is that it's Elon Musk that Elon Musk is becoming this Bastion of freedom and free speech. I mean, it's not like he's a conservative dude, right? He's supposedly red-pig. But he left. Remember when he left the Trump administration because all the backlash he was getting very early in 2016 He was he was counseling that the administration and he left, you know This is one of the big knocks of the people on the right is that they they're people with tons of money on the right But they throw it all at these

Think tanks that can't do anything that don't do anything that just waste it. But you know, Peter Teal just left Facebook. He was on the board of Facebook for 15 years. He just left. And now Elon Musk is the guy that's stepping up. I mean, I think he's going to cause a wave of people to step up on. And he goes, hey, listen, we have to put our foot down and get on these boards, spend our money the right way, do it correctly, and put up a fight.

Because the fact that they can silence, I mean, Twitter and Facebook have more power than most government organizations around the world, right? They can literally silence anybody they choose. It's about time that people like Elon Musk and Peter Teal and all those step up and- What, this, you know what I'm looking for to see in? Here's what I'm looking for to see in. I can't wait to hear the commentary of people who hate the Elon Musk. I can't wait to hear Elizabeth Warren's thoughts on this. I can't wait to hear what they're gonna say about a capitalist that's creating jobs, making the economy a better place.

They're talking about EV, let's make it greener, whatever, ain't nobody's been trying to do that more than this guy. He started the revolution, He started the He gets the least amount of credit for it. So I know as we'll see what's gonna happen and just wait until the government goes after him And I would not be surprised at all if the SEC tried to go after why are you putting that in their ears? Well, the SEC is listening to we turn Tyler down a little bit a little loud right now I don't know he's getting a little aggressive. How many shots of Ticula do you have this time? We honest. Did you start with your regular tour? I only had the three particular to Jeff the service. We honest. Did you start with your regular tour?

I only had the three. Let's turn Tyler down, Georgie. How do I turn my headset down? Can we get, it's a little loud. Get can down 10%. Get can down 10%. I'll be half a value tame in a PBD. I'm sorry for Tyler.

That was a blast. Okay. That was a Mickey Mantle in the house today. That was a little bit more than 10% Georg Georgia if you can bring it back up slightly. Okay. So today you have a surprise for us. You said you brought a box. Do you want to show them what you brought?

I don't know if you have it with you. It's in the green room. It's in the green room. Can I have one to guys grab it and bring it so we can maybe bring it here. Just bring the whole bag because I've got supplies in there too. Bring it back, baby. Can you, whoever's in there send somebody to go to the green room. Can you wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh-wh with a box of 1986 Flair basketball cards. Can you put that up there so people can see where we're?

Originally came out at probably 25, 50 cents a pack, went down in 88 to like four dollars and 99 cents on closeout and now is about a $300,000 box of cards. So we opened up that box and then we opened up 10 cases. Thank you. 10 cases of a product called 2020 Penini flawless basketball, which is a obviously a modern product, but people are looking for this very special LeBron James card that has the logo off his jersey from

all three teams he played for Cleveland Miami and the lakes. So we were there. I was up in Toronto at a private gathering and spent about six hours with Drake, about four of it opening up cards and two hours of it watching the Oscars and eating. So this whole thing with Oscars is going on. You're watching it live while you guys are open up cards. What happened to when he's you know so we so we we you know took a did a promo shot yeah showed what we're gonna do you and Drake you're set yeah yeah Drake and I and Drake let's just let's not gloss over the fact your six hours of Drake opening up cards and by the way can you just show that real quick and you give us permission to show that or no sure yeah absolutely if you want to show that or no. Sure, yeah, absolutely.

If you want to show Clip it out of there, you can go on, you can go on At-Can Golden. It's probably all the best videos. Yeah, go to At-Can Golden. Is that At-Can Golden or who is that Golden? Yeah, that's me right there. Okay, so which one do you want to show? So show the, show the world of me holding six cards right there. Okay, go to the left.

Oh, that one right there. There you go. There you go. I know. So there's Ken and Drissy. Okay, go to the left. Oh, that one right there. The audio So there's Canada, isn't he? We're going in so right off the bat. You can see that is a on the back of cards a sticker. Yeah So we've got a Karim sticker on the back Let's see Drake now the Drake and collect or no, I Drake Actually in about a minute opens up his first ever pack of cards.

Ever in his life. Ever in his life. I just think I've got his card in my face. I don't know if you got you. And how did you guys get hooked up? What happened was he was, and I'll tell you when to click it back live as soon as you see him go to do it. And you know, he's got some of his friends there. We're drinking.

He actually said, you know, the first thing he goes, he goes okay we're gonna do whoever gets the better packs you know the next guy has to take a shot and I'm like I will not be here if I get 20 shots I don't know what we're like but that's not gonna be that's not gonna be me great game he just starts yeah but Drake was looking for this card and he was doing it by using breakers and breakers are people Who actually open boxes of cards for you? So they do it on YouTube they do it on Instagram live They do it on the other social media apps and you buy into a break and they'll open the cards and you know Hope you pull a big card

so Drake was doing that with with a breaker and then hopped on to my Instagram live about two weeks ago and you know I went in with somebody and we had a bunch of cases and we started opening up cases and what I did was I did what's called a case war with Drake where we each opened up a box and whoever got the better cards out of the box got the other person's box. And these are 20,000 boxes, two, three, four, five, six at a time. So, you know, it got a lot of publicity, a lot of attention, you know,

and I felt that, you know, you can't, it doesn't give the same effect as if you're there with him, because all you see is champagne popping and people can be pessimists and they can say, I bet that's a social media guy typing in. I bet it's not really Drake because he wasn't showing his face. So we arranged for cases to be brought to him in Toronto, and I didn't tell anybody because it's Drake. I mean, he can say no at the last minute. And he'd originally contacted a gentleman who runs a publicity site

for trading card called CardPorn and he looped me in and we put it together and we flew up there and made it happen. Instead of just the flawless, I also, during my life, behind my shelf, I have this box of 86 Flare and I held it and Drake said, oh wow, 86 Flare Michael Jordan Rookie, that's really cool. So I surprised him and I have this box of 86 flare and I held it and Drake said oh wow 86 flare Michael Jordan rookie That's really cool. So I surprised him and I brought that box with me to to Toronto So I said before we do the flawless we're gonna open up this flare box and that's really where all of the Excitement happened and I believe he is about in a moment to open up his His first pack of cards. If we want to go back, we'll check it out in a second.

So he's looking and he didn't want to touch the cards. He, you know, they're fragile. You know, these packs as an individual pack can sell for $7,500 to $10,000. One pack, one pack. And there's 36 packs in every box. So I said, no, I'm not going to come out here and you know, have you not do it? People want to see you open the cards. You know, let's open the cards. So let's, let's see what, okay, we missed it. Okay. Here we go. Let's take a peek. Is this the one? This is the one, this is the, this is my pack. Let's see the I think this is fourth pack because I didn't want to go.

Furn flaming and a magic Johnson. Did you ever open a card to me? Did you ever open a card to me? Yeah, I loved it. I was 10, 12 years old. I loved it. I loved it. So he pulled the first pack he opened.

He pulled a Michael Jordan rookie. First, the first. Yeah, so I mean, I don't know if you want to go, you know, it's got to be up there somewhere, but basically, so yeah, so he was hooked. And people, like a lot of NBA players were joining in, Logan Paul joined in. Other rappers were joining in. People were just going crazy. Everybody loved it.

But before we broke, and there's a picture of the Jordan. One of the Jordan rookies. That Jordan right there is how much? If you can, a PSA 10 of that goes for what? A PSA 10 goes for about, and if it's in the end, 275,000 to 325,000 per card, we pulled three of that exact card, and we pulled three of the Jordan and Rookie stickers, but also in there. The reason it's so iconic is it was the first major basketball product in years. So it had the Rookie cards of Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Akimilai Jouon, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Isaiah Thomas, so many others. So there are so many cards in there that if they grade properly, could be five thousand to fifteen thousand dollars a card. There's one oddity, a

no-name player named Johnny Moore, but his card is scarce in a ten. One of them graded a ten recently sold for ninety thousand dollars. And he's like a common otherwise. But if you can get the card in a 10 because there's only about 60 of them and everybody wants to get a complete set with all the cards in a 10, it's very valuable. Wow.

It's kind of crazy. It's a common, but there's only 60 of them to have a complete set of PSA 10s. You need this guy to get a 10 and it's a 90k. Nobody could even tell you who Johnny Moore is. No, absolutely not. You just made it famous. It's again, it's a 90k. Yeah, nobody could even tell you who Johnny Moore's no absolutely not you're just made a famous It's again. It's been since 84 let me ask you leave all sort we have a sort of guest song We just had Jake Weger on the other day. We got a you know laundry list of amazing names that are coming on this week

What is it about Ken and what is it about cards that appeals to you that you're like we got to have talked to Ken because you've been you know quite On a on a passionly on a shamingly been a card collector for years that you're like, we gotta have talked again. Because you've been quite unabashedly, unashamedly been a card collector for years. So what's your story with all this? Yes, and for me, look, he started, I think you started collecting cards, and 78 is the story I read.

I was born in 78, but the first time I got a card was in 89 in Germany, when Germany was in the World Cup. I went to a local liquor store, and they were selling these packs for like nothing 50 Fennec or you know when I bought a pack I opened and I'm like oh my gosh I could disguise and then I was addicted I was hooked. Yeah and then I came to LA the first time I got a big card was remember the one where you would pull up the upper deck card of Shaq and you have to mail it in and they would mail in which card was that. Okay, so it was 1992 and then here's the here's a story. The reason that you had to mail it in

was because in 1992 I ran a company and I owned a company called Classic and I signed shack exclusively to a contract and I'll tell the story and what happened was I met you kill on the outside of your contract and I put in his contract that he is not allowed to appear on anybody else's trading cards until January 1, 1993. I knew the significance of what doing that meant because I knew that the NBA has licensees. I was not one of them. I knew they had licensees that start putting out cards in September prior to the season. So when I sent a legal letter to the MBA, tops, upper deck, and flair, after I signed, I'm saying,

we have this contract, you better not violate it. I was summoned by David Stern to the MBA office and shook my hand, met me, and then put me in a room with at the time, the deputy commissioner of the NBA a gentleman by the name of Gary Batman who of course for many people know him now for many years as commissioner of the national hockey league and he went on a profanity-laced tirade to Shaquille on the old agent and then basically said to me you know I should hold Shaq out from appearing in any game until he's allowed

to appear on our licensees cards. And this is October. Batman is berating you or? Or Batman. Oh, Batman. Batman. Starman was very nice. Starman said, how nice to meet you, blah, blah, blah.

Let's, you know, hope you guys can work this out. But Batman was berating Shaq's lawyers and like trying to get me upset. And I was, I was young kid in my 20s. I wasn't going to be, I just wasn't going to be faced by any of this stuff. So finally, he said, we can, you know, we can hold Shaq out from playing in the NBA until he's allowed to appear in a card. And my response was that's fine for me because I'll already be sold out of my trading card product.

But I don't think the Orlando Magic who just selected him number one and signed into that big contract would appreciate that. And then like his face turned red and we ended up working out a deal and the deal was that I said, hey, I'm a publicly out company. We issued a press release that said no other card company can do this. We are not going to let any other card company do it. However, they can put in a coupon, and if somebody pulls that coupon out of a pack, on January 1st, they can

be sent a card of Shaquille O'Neill. And that invented the redemption card. That was the very fresh redemption card in history, and they had what upredicted was they put a silhouette of Shaq's in black and white, and it was called a trade trade in for Shack. What's funny is, if you did not send in that redemption card, it's worth more than the actual card you redeemed for, because everybody, of course, sent it in, and so few of them exist, not redeemed. Yeah, that would have been 1992, 1993,

Upper Deck Series one basketball. So I got that card, and I got another stadium club. You know, the stadium club is rebounding, down with it. Theme team. Yeah. And then during that time, Upper Deck had a 91 or 92, Sergei Fedorov and Yarmee or Yaga rookie card that was coming out during that era. So I would go to Albertsons, no joke. My mom would go to sleep at 11 at a shopping cart in the back of the apartment in Glendale off of a Broadway in a Broadway in Verdugo right by the post office, I'd go leave the house, get on the shopping cart, go to all the trash cans locally, collect two litre bottles, and cans go to Albertsons

by two o'clock, I would recycle this with my friend Adrian, then we would come back just to be able to buy a box of upper dick to get a surrogate fit off in your mirror, you re-agre. That's how much I love cars. You're saying, I mean, this was like, I go to all the shows, the Eagle Rock show, any the shows that were local, I go to it. So, and did it ever stop, meaning like you did this as a teenager? Yeah.

When you're in the 20s, you're focused on business. You took a break from, you know, military, probably 97 to 04, I took a break and then I got back into it and I deployed a few million in the last few years but that's a whole different story. So come on back to you today. Some of the guys that are looking at cards. By the way, if you want to put that box out so we can see what box you have. I'm Kierzen and what you brought with you. Ken's brought a box. It's a surprise. I didn't know about this box. Okay, so this is what? Can you tell us what's special about this box? It is 2003 tops chrome NBA basketball and the key with it is you've got the rookie class that features LeBron James as the number one drift pick

The what they call the base card of LeBron and I'll just go over PSA 10 values because it's easy. That's like a top grade The base card of LeBron is probably in the $8,000 range, but they have a card that is called Refractor, which is randomly inserted of LeBron. That's about $100,000 a card, and then if you're really lucky, they have an X-Fractor and a gold Refractor. The gold gold refractor in a PSA 10 is about a 1.5 million dollar card. And the key is not, they're all numbered, those are numbered to 50, not all of them have been pulled, which means somewhere out there in some of these unopened boxes exists this potential million dollar plus trading card. So for somebody that doesn't know a box like this goes for what, 20 bucks, 40 bucks, 80

bucks. That box is in the vicinity of $25,000 a box. This is a $25,000 box here today So should we open this box or no online? Yeah, I think we should Put the profits. So I'll just go live our best We'll put that out here. By the way if you if you want to see us open this box Let us know through super chat. We'll pay attention to it. I mean obviously we're not gonna raise 25k But if you want us to open that up let us know we may do it on this pot What I what I do want to do before I go to use the following okay?

Ken For some people that are like come on man baseball cards I mean why the hell would a trading card? Self for as much as it does an article came out Recently talking about the top ten most expensive cards ever sold. Now you're going to correct this article. I'm certain of it. It's on page 3. It says number 10 is Honest Wagner T206 PSA5 sold for 3.1 million a PSA 300 Wagner sold for 3.7 million. A Wink Retski 79 Opiechi, the one I sold for 2.1 million, sold for 3.75 million.

Honours Wagner, PSA 2, sold for 3.75. Can you see it or no? Here, let me give it to you. Here you go. Right here. Right here. Right here. You got to write it. You're looking at the wrong one. I don't know what you put the wrong one. Yeah, I'm going to say Mike Trout, 2009 Super Fractfractor autographed soul for 3.9 million Pat Nohomes So for 4.3 million Luca on his birthday is sold for 4.6 million LeBron James

RPA rookie patch autographed soul for 5.2 Mickey Man of 52 tops So for 5.2 million. That's a PSA 9 by the way. That's not a 10 That's a 9 that's so for 5.2 million, that's a PSA 9, by the way, that's not a 10, that's a 9, that's so for 5.2 million. And then a honest Wagner T206, SGC3, so for 6.6 million dollars. Are these people crazy for spending this kind of money on cards? No, not only are they crazy, a lot of people talk about cards and they don't understand what trading cards realistically are a serious collectible. People who buy ultra high end trading cards are the same type of people and the same mindset

of people who buy Van Goghs, Renoir's, Warhol's, and things of that nature. What you have to realize, and I'm gonna give one example, T206 Honus Wagner. Now, T206 means tobacco and it's just a designation. T206 was the serial number they gave back in the 1930s and 40s when they were coming up with a catalog system of cards.

But the set was issued in 1909 and they put the cards in packs of tobacco. Either pipe tobacco, one brand was chewing tobacco, but basically cigarette tobacco. And they would stick the card in a pack. Those cards became very, very popular. There was a turn of the century. Had Thai Cobb, Sa, Young, Kristi Mathis, and everybody.

But Honest Wagner, the legend goes, did not, even though he was a big, big sure of tobacco, did not want to promote tobacco the kids. So he demanded his card was removed from circulation. Interesting. And it became very, very scarce and very desirable. If you go in history and you look at every single time that card is sold as probably in the vicinity of 50 known in various conditions, graded by the various companies. But if you go in history and look at all of the sales

of a T-Tro 6-Honus Wagner, and what I'm about to tell you, I don't think you can look at and compare to any piece of art, any precious metal, or any stock. Every single time, an individual HONUS Wagner has sold and changed hands, it was for a higher price than that exact same card sold previously. So if you look at all Proximum 50 cards and you look at all the hundreds of transactions every one of them has had since 1909, there is no documented case of anybody who bought a Honest Wagner, whether they bought it in a horrible condition, or they bought the best one possible, has ever bought the card and resold it and lost money. In fact, this

chart is already outdated because a graded 3 PSA 3 Honest Wagner sold about a month and a half ago, privately, for $8 million. So, and I know, you know, there are other cards on here that if they sold would shatter. If Ken Kendrick ever sold his T-Tro 6 Wagner 8, he would get 40 million dollars plus. The first person to sell a 52 tops Mickey Manel in a PSA 10, there were three of them is going to get over 25 million dollars if any of them ever let it go and I've tried aggressively with with all the owners. We tried together one time together. Yes, we made an offer to you. Yes, yes, yes, yes, you did. Yes, you did. It was a pretty aggressive offer. It was it was it was a fair offer. However, these individuals, you know, there there's only one that's

a potential target. What number did I give you? Did you and I spoke? I'm comfortable if you say publicly. What number did I began with it too? I don't know that So there you go. So I made an offer to buy that. I really wanted this car, but it is what it is at this point. Yep. Yeah, yeah and basically the mass-produced cards, you know, that you buy in a store today out of a pack that are not random, that are, you know, that are just, you know, they produce tons of. That's not what we're calling, talking about the, the investable assets. We're talking about the investable assets, or the truly rare cards of the all-time-grade players, whether it's a Honest Wagner, whether it's a Michael Jordan, whether it is Will Chamberlain, whether it is Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays,

Wayne Gretzky, for example, as you've learned. And to give an example, you set a record for the highest price hockey card ever sold, and then the card was resold after that for, you know, two, yeah, three and a half million. I sold it, everyone's calling me, oh my gosh, back, 2.1 million for the two cards, because I did the tops on the OPG. And you have six months later, it sells for three and a half million. I saw that everyone's calling me. Oh my gosh, back 2.1 million for the two cards. Because I did the tops on the OPG.

And you have six months later, so it's us for three and a half million. The one card. The one card one. And by the way, the guys that bought it from me, the tops people that bought it from me, were the rally guys that bought it. And they sold shares of the rally.

And the believe it or not, on the OPG 10, one of the guys that was bidding for is Wayne Gretzky. Yes, I got a call I was on a call with Bruce McNull and I'm sure you know who Bruce McNull is and they call me they said hey let's see if we can do something here with this card I'm like look it's between you or it's between heritage heritage was coming to me I don't think you and I had done many kind of dealings at the time yeah yeah and so they came through and then we're like, okay, let's try this out. I think it's gonna suffer this much.

Okay, and they said we guarantee the guard's gonna sell for a million dollars. We think, or else we can take what you call it, the reserve off. I said, okay, sounds good. Next thing you know, it's 11 o'clock at night and I'm sitting there getting text messages. Here's what it's all for.

But so in other words, what you're saying right now is these folks that are buying all these cards, they're not making any. They're not dummies. They're not naive. Now who was not in the market that's now in it. Meaning like you know at first Bitcoin. It was all, you know, oh my gosh, it's because fiat currency and then next thing, you know, I don't buy a hundred thousand dollars. Okay, I'll put a million dollars. And then next thing, you know, Michael sailors of the world, of the world I'll buy you know this many job I buy this and then Elon Musk and then hedge fund and then mutual funds and then okay now it's legit right What have you seen yourself haven't been in it from 78 today? What were some of the events that completely changed the card business and who's entering in a market today that maybe 10 20 years ago Would have never even looked at it? Well, the biggest thing that changed the card business was really the creation of PSA, the authentication and grading company in the early 90s.

Prior to that, it's always funny when people pull out these mail-in publications from 1979, I'm 13 years old, and it says you know, Ken Gold and Garwood Drive, Cherry Hill, New Jersey, which is my address at the time. And, you know, I would say Mickey Mantle, VG-EX, very good through excellence. So it was me, my non-professional, but, you know, somewhat trained I, calling the card very good excellent. The person buying it, they didn't see a picture of the card. They didn't know if the card was authentic or not.

They had no independent grading authority. What PSA did when they came into the marketplace is they did two things. The first thing they look for is, is this a real card? That is the most important thing. Is it not a reprint? Is it not a counterfeit? Is it not a forgery? That is always going to be the most important thing. The second thing they did was they established a grading scale between one and 10, with 10 being gemminced

and one being poor. And what that allowed people to do as they gained trust and as they gained market share and acceptance was people were able to buy a card site unseen and you were able to buy and sell the card in a commodity. So for example, if somebody ran a hedge fund, they can say, okay, fine, I want to buy five LeBron James rookie refractors in a PSA 10. They never had to see the card. They never had to look at the card. They can put it in an asset portfolio.

They can line-list it as in 2003, Topps Chrome, the Baranjames Refractor PSA 10, and it had a value. So that between that and establishing the price guide, what that allowed to happen is it went from when I used to go to card shows and people would just go to card shows as a kid, to now being able to buy and sell over the internet and buy and sell, you know, at first early in the late 90s, it was eBay. And then obviously companies such as Golden, you know, where we sell, you know, tens of millions of dollars of this stuff virtually every week. But now the people that are in and not just collectors, you have individual investors, you have serious collectors, you have the entire foreign market.

In 2012, literally, I would say less than a tenth of 1% of gold in business was probably overseas buyers. Now, I would say 25% of all the weekly new registers are from outside the United States. You know, not 25% of our volume yet, but 25% of the new people coming in. In addition, you have these fractionalized share companies. You mentioned Rally. So you've got Rally, you've got collectible. You can tell people what these are, what how it works. So what happens is basically it's crowdsourcing.

What they do is just like a stock, you know, you talk about Tesla. Tesla has probably hundreds of thousands or millions of people that own a tiny, tiny, tiny fract, you talk about Tesla. Tesla has probably hundreds of thousands or millions of people that own a tiny, tiny, tiny, fractional piece of the company. That's what a share of stock represents. So what they came up with said, okay, let's take a collectible. Let's say the collectibles were at $100,000 and the customers can't buy it. You know, because in individual can't buy it, it's too much. But what if they want to own a small piece? So let's say you can take a hundred thousand dollar item and sell 10,000 units of 10 dollars

each to represent. Now somebody can own a tenth of a percent, a hundredth of a percent. They can order up on 5 percent. And that is what happened with Rally and your Wayne Gretzky Topps rookie card. That's even what happened with Rally and a copy of the Declaration of Independence. I sold Rally a couple years ago a T-Turus 6 Honus Wagner that was a PSA, excuse me, it was I think an SGC authentic. It went out and an issue price of $500,000, which people thought was high at the time.

Right now it's trading on their platform at $2 million. So it is... That's crazy. Yeah. And by the way, Rally, correct me if I'm wrong, Rally also helped collectors who owned the cards, increased the value of the cards because now there's more people that are participating. So the card that I sold to Rally for whatever number they paid for the tops, I think they paid 800 grand forward.

Immediately, that card went up to 1.2, 1.3 million because they were selling the shares. So Rally kind of helped increase the price of cards. I just sent you the link with the Closhen Independence if you want to pull that up. But please continue. So that is a big part of it. Also now there are mutual funds that are buying cards. There are dedicated trading card funds where, I know one company has already, I think,

on their third different fund to buying trading cards that are buying cards. That started with a company called Blowout when they did the Blowout Wax Fund. Talk about a fund you wanted to get into because they did it really before the boom. They started it, I think, in 2019 before the whole COVID boom with collectibles. But they took sealed wax product like this and they just said, okay, fine, we're going to put a $2 million of sealed wax into a fund. And now the fund has a value of about $11.3 million.

But you've got hedge funds out there that are allocating a percent of resources to it. So it really has become an alternative asset and you've got people like Tiger Investment Group that they go out and they say can you speak at our conference and can you do this and people want me to go all over there. And somebody will be talking about art, somebody will be talking about real estate, and I'll be talking about trading cards. Is that what's going on tonight?

Is that kind of what's going on tonight? That's exactly what's going on tonight. Yeah. So Adam, did you have a question? I think you wanted to ask something. I'm learning over here. I do have some questions, but we'll get to that. So what do you own that you'd never sell?

So one of them, and we did, I guess we did a watch down with Drake, where he showed off his new watch. I said, I never wear, I'm not a big jewelry wearer, I don't wear watches, however, this was a special occasion. So I wore my 1956 New York Yankees World Series watch that was George Weiss' who was the president of the Yankees and in the Hall of Fame. So I wore that watch and it was most all the players and the team they all selected rings. You can get you want to ring and you want to watch and the Yankees had, you know, players want rings. But you know the manager, Casey Stangle and the president said I've got so many rings already I'm going to take a watch. So I own his watch from 1956. Is that kind of what it looks like? The one the Rolex the where it says on the left they go right there something like that.

Yep. So except my my guy because he was. He got his studded out with diamonds Yogi bearer But yeah, yeah, that's Yogi bearers sick rolling So you on one of those I own one of those and you never sell that no no no and I own a You know, I'm a big man. I'm a card guy, but I'm a big memorabilia guy to car look cards To me or more of investment and less personal. I don't necessarily have an emotional attachment to a trading card You know, I have I do have a complete T-Tour six set. I do not have a Wagner, but I have a plank which is about a 250,000-hour card as part of the set I have a complete T-Tour a plank, which is about a $250,000 card as part of the set.

They have a complete T20C. I have a complete 206 set, yes. Really? Someone's got a gift you will honest with. Yeah, one of the 50. They're just going to say, Ken, you got to, if we, you know, if we go public, and I sell some shares, and, you know, then maybe I'll use some of that money to complete my set

with the Wagner. That's cool. But the other thing is I own Babe Ruth's bat from 1927. The year he hit 60 homeruns, it's a PSA 10 and it has proven on directly to Claire Ruth when she gifted it to the Babe Ruth Museum back in the early 1970s. That's gonna be very, very effective. Yeah, that's in the early 1970s. That's going to be very, very effective.

Yeah, that's in the millions, yes. Okay. You said that the one thing you would not sell is the Yankees Rolex watch, right? Yes. Is there, because you've been buying and trading and selling, is there something that you're like, I would not sell this card.

You sold your gratsky, you got a couple million bucks. Boom, is there anything you would not sell this card. You sold your gratsky, you got a couple million bucks. Boom. Is there anything you would not sell? I don't have the card that I wouldn't sell. That's the problem. If that makes any sense, the card I want that I would never sell, I don't have yet. Got it. But I'm a patient guy. And this said card, we won't name names. If you did somehow acquire it, it's yours for life. I don't think I would sell it I don't think I think it being some kind of a museum that I would keep you to tell us what it is He knows what it is. You know what it is There's a handful of there's a couple options and two of them we've discussed already

Some wheels are turning over here. I remember when I first started coming to the Dallas office PHP by payment and I saw that there were Boxes of cards of your top Guys you're your employees your your controls guys. Yeah, your sales guys. So Was that some sort of sort of the motivation with starting us the idea of the baseball cards for our salesguys from Ray Dalio because he talks about in his book Oh, in Principles he says they have cards for all their other guys. Yeah, it's a very good idea about it We have it for all our guys every year. We give it away are those words anything to our guys

It is we're giving it away next time. I would if I got my hands somehow on a Ricardo Aguilar card He I would hold on to that for the rest of my life. I would sleep with that on your mind. I see what's signed. Some of Ray's, that's pretty short, right? Some of his smartest, best and brightest are extremely high-end trading card collectors and investors. If that tells you anything about the mindset, that makes sense to me. That makes sense to me.

To be able to do some like that. Okay, so the box, do we want to open the box or not? Do we want to kind of start opening the box or do we want to wait till second half for the map to be here and we'll wait? How far is it matter away from here, by the way? By the way, we have, what number do we have? We have two super chat. Yeah, the moment we get to 20, whatever the amount is,

the moment we get to 20 superchats, we'll open a box, we got 18 more to go, but I got a couple questions here for people that ask. One guy said, rejoining the hobby over a year ago, this is goker, I notice a horrible drop in the quality control and customer service, can do you believe Panini has intentionally, has been intentionally reckless due to losing contract on sole

manufacturer? That's a bad question. So here's the thing. I think that the trading card companies over the past couple of years have been dramatically overwhelmed. And my viewpoint as a collector is I would think that if I open up a new pack of cards you know nobody's ever touched it right every card should be a 10 if it's not a 10 at least it should be a 9 now a 10 is gem mint that means perfect a 9

means mint which means it can have a tiny imperfection like maybe off-center left to right top to bottom or on the back but that's my viewpoint is a collector every time I open up a pack card, if I handle it properly, every card should be a nine or a ten. That is not happening. And that's what he's referring to. What has happened is the increase in demand has forced them to go to other places to print cards that may not be used to bring cards to handle the overflow production. The other issue is as companies like Penini produce these ultra high end cards like flawless, like Eminence which was horrible to get graded. I think they canceled it because it was so difficult to keep the quality.

But the cards are so thick, they're making such a big surface area that they're giving so much area on the corners to get touched up and to notice that there's a tiny ding on it. So yeah, look, people have been opening up cards of some of those products and literally be getting a five or a six right out of the pack because the card was mishandled. The other issue in the problem that companies like Penini and Topstaff is when you have an athlete autograph a card, they're handling the card. So the athlete is going to sign a card and he might drop it on a table. All of a sudden it's got a ding corner.

And that's a signed card of that athlete, but it's got a ding corner. So all these things play, but yeah, 100%. I would say if you look at trading card product produced in 2012 through 2016, the ratio of cards that are perfect out of the pack were higher than they are now, but no, there's zero chance that Panini is mad that they lost their licensing to fanatics and is intentionally producing. There's no way. Poor quality cards. No, Panini wants to sell as much product as possible while they have their license. They want to make as much money as possible and

possibly they want to look good as possible so they can be a takeover target by fanatics just like tops was a takeover target. You know, it, it, look, it only makes sense for fanatics to want to start making trading cards earlier than 2026 in basketball and football and that, and that, uh, Penini and Fanatics work at a deal for the licensing. I hope so because it, it was a brand that everybody was swarming by and talking about for, for many, many years. Yeah. Silly white boys got a question. You're so let's get that, that's his name, by the way. It was a brand that everybody was swarming by and talking about for many many years. Yeah. Silly White boys got a question here. So let's get that, that's his name, by the way.

Yeah. Let's get that box open. Can have you gotten into TCG like Pokemon and Yugi Hoh, if so, what's your opinion on them? Sure. So first of all, as a personal collector, I do not personally collect TCG. However, my eight year old son Paul is a big Pokemon collector. I also, for those of you who follow me, know that I have broken Pokemon cards with Logan Paul and you know I'm friendly with him and Logan is

actually an investor in Golden. So I recognize and he's the biggest Pokemon guy out there. He wore at WrestleMania two nights ago. He's going to picture up. You wore this card tonight. In fact, that's why that card is not on here. That list is also outdated because he paid $5.275 million for that Pokemon card right there. You see a PSA 10 and he paid $5.27 million. Now what makes that card so special? It's, so what it is, it was a special promotional card of Pikachu, one of the most love characters,

like he's designing the Pokemon cards, it's called the Illustrator. There are only, I think there are less than 40 that are known, making it in theory, rarer than a T206 on his Wagner, although it was made a hundred years after. So it is a modern card, but it is basically the honest Wagner of all Pokemon cards. six-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundred know for collectibles. Baseball is really a US sport. You can say, you know, Asian sport as well. But, you know, going good or go to the street and ask a kid, do they know who Roberto Clemente is? Do they know who Willie Mayes is? A lot of them want. Ask a kid if they know who Joe Montana is. They're not going to. Ask a kid if they know who Charizard is, Pikachu is, Batman's Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, they're going to know and it's going to be a point. So you have a worldwide population,

I don't know how many people in the world right now, is it five billion? Eight billion. Eight billion. Jesus, he escapes. So eight billion, you have access to the entire world where they know these characters whether it's the TCG characters like the Pokemon or Yugio or especially the Marvel and the DC characters. Marvel is part of Disney now. So years from now people are going to say, oh my god Wolverine actually had a comic book, Spiderman had a comic book, and I can own the first creation of that. I can own a

action comics number one, the first ever Superman or detective 27 first Batman or Batman number one So I think that I really like all of those areas long-term based on the fact that it has you know a Constant replenishing of the potential people who might be interested in buy that product. Very cool. Alan Carpoid just asked a question. My son was 13, purchased a rare 2016 Bowman Chrome Tatis, Fernando Tatis,

autographed, a rookie Twitter, number 23, right before the COVID card boom. What do you think that card is worth now? Oh my God, okay. So the two, let me put the two, let me put a tease, let me put this in perspective for you. So that's a variation, it is, I believe, a retail variation, not a lobby box.

So if you compare that to a red refractor of tease, which is limited to five autographed, that's going to be in the range of 250 to $350,000 for the card. So this card, I'm not great with the retail versions, but it could potentially be $50,000 plus on that card that you pulled in 2016. So 13-year-old kid got a $50,000 card.

Here you go. Good for him, got to love it. By 13 year old kid got a $50,000 card. Here you go. Good for him, got to love it. By the way, this is a $25,000 box that we'll open up here in the second half shortly. But so another question for you. In when it comes down to, I saw you the other day, you talked about a player that I also feel is undervalued, a card and investment that's undervalued.

Who do you think is overvalued today? Who do you think is undervalued today? So one else kick it off for you and then you can go from there. You said Willie Mase. I agree with you I think Willie Mase fully undervalued. I also think the guys Jersey I'm wearing right now. I'm wearing Ruth Jersey. It's not a mantle. It says Ruth in the back. I think Ruth is undervalued. I don't think Ruth is It says Ruth in the back. I think Ruth is undervalued. I don't think Ruth is actually getting the value, the card deserves. I may be wrong, I wanna hear your thoughts,

but what would you say is overvalued? What's undervalued? I don't wanna get too much into overvalued because people will hold that card, will get mad at me. I would say that I think that there is a lot of speculation on basketball players who have less than three or four years of experience in the league and whose career could potentially end before they accomplish anything in the NBA. And on those type of players,

you need to be careful. I think on some of the younger baseball players who have not made the major leagues and people are buying what they hope is future value on those cards. Again, you know, you look at Steven Strasberg of the Washington Nationals, could have been the greatest picture of all time, but constant arm surgeries and injuries. Look at Jacob DeGrom. I mean, he is the best pitcher in baseball right now, and he might not play again this season. Crazy. Because, you know, my man, Steve Cohen, unfortunately,

he gets mech, gets Shurzer, and now, you know, DeGrom is out. I mean, he's trying really hard to win a World Series. You know, I'm happy you're talking about that. The mats, yeah, yeah, the Steve. For those who don't, So Steve Cohen owns the Mets. He is also one of the on my board of directors and one of my larger shareholders. So I root for the Phillies, but for him, I also root for the Mets. So it's disappointing to see DeGroam get injured. But I think players who are a little bit less established without the track record,

that would be the area I put into overvalued. I also think cards like people, it's what called, it's what base cards. And you know, this is a pattern you always see that this is gonna happen 100% of the time. You open up a brand new product, the product first comes out, people pull the base cards, if they're hot in their rookies,

they get them graded, those highly graded cards, sell for a lot of money, they always go down. They're going to go down because there's a small number of supply at the beginning and people who rush out to a very good point. You're okay. You know like the people people buy them when the pop population report is maybe 500 at some point that population report maybe 50,000 so don't rush in you know I'm not talking about a card like a 105 that's you know the cards that are numbered individually in the card that's in a

different stratosphere the cards that are not individually in the card, that's in a different stratosphere. The cards that are not numbered in the newer product, don't rush out and overpay them at the beginning of the product cycle because they'll go down. Product I think is undervalued. I think, first of all, I do think that Willie Mays as a baseball player is drastically undervalued. I think that most of Babe Ruth's cards are undervalued. I really like the Baltimore news roof. I really like a card, what is called his true rookie card called his 1916 sporting news card.

To me, that is one of the five most iconic cards of all time because it is the first professional rookie card of Babe Ruth and the highest grade of that card sells for a fraction of what the highest grade of Mickey Manel's card sells for for example. I think Vint, I think the older guys in football and basketball compared to the modern guys are dramatically undervalued whether it's a Chamberlain, whether it's a Russell, whether it's a undervalued whether it's a Chamberlain, whether it's a Russell, whether it's a, you know, a Johnny United, whether it's a Jim Brown, whether it's a Jill Namath, those guys do not get the attention. I think that, you know, I'd like to say that soccer is undervalued, but you've seen such a big boom

in the past couple of years that it's really caught up. Like, I have, you want to see something crazy. So this is something we're going to hand out tonight. Like I have, you wanna see something crazy. So this is something we're gonna hand out tonight. Look at the numbers on Messy and Ronaldo and during the time period. I mean that, 2016, this card, very important. 2016, this card sold for $8,600.

That's a Messy card. Four years later, it sold for $116,000. This year it sold for $304,000. That's a $19,0884 increase rate of return. Howland sold for 33 then 148 Ronaldo sold for $1300 in 2014 $4,000 in 20s. Is this accurate? $4,000 in 2017 and 320 just the exact same card So those numbers were based on the exact card,

the exact sale of that card in saying 24,000 a percent return. 24,000 in a span of four and a half years. Yes. That's insane. So you're saying soccer's one as well to look into. Zion Williamson, is it a, is it a tourist yet? This one is it by cell hold what was Zion's a hold? Okay, you can't, I don't think you can buy it okay But if you have it, I think you've to wait until he comes back and performs There's a lot of hype build into Zion. I would say it's definitely a hold I personally would you know unless it's like dirt Cheap I think I such an amazing player is. He's such a potential dominating athlete,

but how often is he gonna play? How often is he actually on the court? Is the problem? Yeah, they showed a image, yeah, I think NBA did it or ESP or Sports Center did. Saying the first three seasons, Zion's only played three more games than Odin did in his first three seasons.

And you know what happened to Greg Odin, Portland and Trailblazers, and he's done. Yeah, and as a category, I think that overall, sealed vintage wax product, and I'm talking about vintage, in this case, I'm saying anything that's like not in current production, because every all these cards, as they get graded, what's called the population report,

how many exist go up. But every time a box is opened of one of these classic products, there's one less in existence. For example, 86 Flier. I'm an idiot. I'm crazy. I opened up a 300,000-dollar box of cards with Drake. There's one less of those boxes in existence right now. Okay.

So, yes, we pulled all the Jordan rookies, but it's kind of like they say keep it sealed in the original box. So, and I think that that is a real safe bet because you go out, let's say you buy a 1996 box of basketball cards, keep it sealed. You've got Kobe Bryant rookies in there, you've got Alan Iverson rookies in there, you've got Steve Nash, you've got Ray Allen, you've got Marbury, you've got all these guys, it's a bet to me, it's like a basket like the S&P where if you see it and I think it's a safer bet than speculating on one individual player, like I like 2011 baseball because you've got Mike Trout and Bryce Harper inside the box. So it's just a really cool thing and that's one of the things I've collected

over the past few years. I totally agree with you about keeping in the box, except for this one. That's fine. We're over 20. So if we want to open it up, if you want to take the lead with that, we're over. I got a quick question. So we're talking about these older cards, right? 86 flea, the older honus Wagner's, people that are watching today that decide they want to go buy some cards. Is it still relevant today? And where can you buy cards that would eventually be worth value?

Walmart or trading card store or a hobby store? Let me, let me, first of all, I'm talking about the vintage product, but realistically, the majority of the market is modern. And I can, we've sold probably 20 different LeBron James cards for a million dollars or more Tom Brady there exists hundreds of Tom Brady cards that are a million dollar plus people With the modern product because the way they produce it back in the day they only made one version So the 86 Flier there's no Michael Jordan card that there's only 10 of or 5 of.

Every single box of 86 Flier has the exact same Michael Jordan card in it. But today, you know, you can open up a box of cards and say, okay, Lamello Ball. There's going to be different variations of him. There's going to be some that you don't know how many are printed. But many others that may say one of one, Which means it's the only one of that particular rook in existence one of five one of fifty one of ninety nine So there are people that are getting really rich by either being incredibly smart or being incredibly lucky There is gonna be somebody who opens up a box of flawless and has a four million dollar LeBron James card Once that triple logo man is pulled. That's what Drake is looking for.

There's people that open up something called Bowman Chrome and Bowman Giraffe, which is where topspits all its rookies and young players. There are people who are going to open up and find what's called a superfactor. It's a one-of-one card. It is like, you know, the ultimate card to own of that player and that's going to be super valuable, almost no matter who it is. But if you have the next young hot prospect, like we sold Jason Dominguez, uh, for half a million dollars, he has never played a game in the major. He's probably

two years away. He probably will not see the major leagues at the earliest until 2023. We sold his rookie card because it was a one of one for 500,000 because they're projecting the future value and saying, Hey, when Derek Jeter was a rookie, he did not have a one-of-one card. So what's a Rookie Bill? What would it be? Of course it is. It's high stakes, high risk high reward. The modern cards have a higher beta associated with them than the vintage cards. The vintage cards, you know, if you want to put money into vintage cards and then just have them slowly appreciate, that's fine. The modern cards, you can buy, you can spend $100 and literally have a card the two years later is $5,000. Just so people want to know, what the PSA grading service,

how backed up are they today? Let's check this out by the way. I don't know. How backed up are they? OK. So a year ago, PSA was 12 million cards behind. I believe that they have reduced that backlog down to about 4 million cards. And what that means is they're probably, they used to have this service called bulk. And people would be able to send in 100, 500 five hundred five thousand cards at a really discounted price and what that did

Was it log jam the entire system for everybody so you can have a twenty five thousand dollar card and your card was stuck Because somebody with a fifty dollar card sending in for eight dollar grading service and you know that they're in front of the line. So what PSA has done is they've opened up a way where people, if you've got a card basically that's $500 or more, you can cut the line. You can pay, they've got a $50 service and a $100 service all the way up to $10,000. You send a million dollar card, you can pay $10,000, you send a million dollar a card, you're going to pay $10,000, you get a graded, but to get a graded reel, and you like the graded, it's easily worth the $10,000. But yeah, if all they did was concentrate on the other surface, they are probably six months I'm going to guess to get rid of that backlog. All right, I got to ask.

I got to ask, Kim. Seems like this is like the hottest thing on the planet right now. Clearly. So here's my, you're not gonna get offended by this. I hope not. But I remember a time when I was a kid and I was collecting 86 mets and I was like a big deal.

I was a kid and then I grew up and I was more interested in hanging out, partying, chicks, the whole thing. Now this is kinda cool again. I mean, let's just use what you're saying. You're hanging out with Drake. You're doing things with Logan Paul. I saw you on your Instagram,

you're throwing touchdowns with Tom Brady. Yes, today. Steve Aoki's opening up a card shop with our boy Dan Flaishman. Like, you know, it seems like the cool kids are in this market. I remember a time, my buddy Josh, he might be listening, maybe five, 10 years ago, he told me he was collecting cards. I'm like you're a straight-up

nerd bro. Straight up. Nerd alert. Why is this a cool thing now? It's basically seems like you and the card game has gone from geek to chic. Please explain. Is it all about the money? That's my question. Is it just simply it's an asset class? There's money there. You know follow the money, the cool kids are in it now, Drake's in it. What's going on? Well, it's, it's definitely part because if it's an asset class, but also it gives you honestly, there are first of all, there are people who just love the cards. They love the look, they love the design, they get excited opening up packs, but do you, do you bet on sports? the design, they get excited opening up packs, but do you bet on sports? Not anymore. I've been to GA, it's a problem.

Okay, so you bet people bet sports, right? They like sports, don't think? Correct. I'm a big sports fed. Okay, don't get it too tight. Okay, fine. So if you bet a game of sports, do you feel that you have any control over whether or not you're going to win that bet? No, I wouldn't say that. Well, if you said I know Tim Donnock, if you said you did your, your

lying or your, or your, or your delusional, okay? Because if you bet sports, you know, it's, the theory is it's 50, 50, but less than 50 because the house takes money. The difference between sports and cards are is trading cards, especially modern cards, could be a little bit like sports betting however You actually have some control of your outcome You can go out and decide okay fine I am a baseball expert and baseball is the best one because a lot of people don't know the young players

I can go out. I read the scouting reports. I know I know information about this guy I can put money. I read the scouting reports. I know information about this guy. I can put money in term of you. You're no basketball player. Let's say you went to university, you can tuck me. Okay. And let's say you saw Tyrese Maxi. And you know Tyrese Maxi went way lower than he should have in the draft, when the six has got him in the 20s. And you put money on Tyrese Maxi when he was, you know, some of his cards were $50 or $20 or $500. Those cards have about 10 to 30 X's since he was drafted. So when you do something in trading cards, also it lets you root.

So all of a sudden, guess what? It doesn't matter if you're a Knicks fan. You want a bunch of Tyres Maxi cards, you're a 76er fan and you want Tyres Maxi to do well. So it is like sports betting. However, it lets you have more direction. It lets you have more control and it lets you use your expertise a lot. A lot more than betting a single game. Okay. Very good way of explaining.

And having and having a fluked, a fluked tip ball run back for a touchdown. Something like that. So that is part of the reason. Part Partly reason is an alternative asset class the other part of the reason is That breaking cards has become entertainment, you know I was breaking a box of cards with Drake and I had hundreds of thousands of people watching I broke a box of Pokemon cards with Logan Paul over 10 million people have seen that video and on YouTube so all of those things have transformed and when you look at a company like Fanatics, I mean, who do you take a

company that had no sales, no history of sales, no employees, and when they initially went out to take investments, I think they got a $4 billion valuation. So that shows you the what the market thinks and they're going to, they've so much money invested in there, they've tentacles everywhere. So they're going to have the players promote in the cards, the leagues now own a piece of the company. So you're going to have, you know, the leagues promoting it and you're going to have commercials, you're going to have all these things, which is why I like everything that's at a print because the theory is, if you five X the market

or 10 X the market, guess what they have to do? They have to print more product, right? They've got to make more product in 2023, 24, 25, 26. So I'm going back 2019 and earlier, and that's type of stuff I'm buying because if they are gonna bring all these new people into the marketplace They're gonna want to buy something you know that was pre-2024 right? You go to that answer

I feel a little more comfortable about essentially the answer is it's all about the money And if you want to diversify Rather than picking a sports betting a random game you get a player can I ask a follow-up? Sure, so it says here that you know because I'm a big just invest in the S&P index fund I don't do individual stocks, you know who knows what's happening with the market You know who knows what's happening with Tesla, but I'm very confident that the S&P is gonna go 10% year over year over year As it's it so let me just read you some numbers here if you invest $10,000 in the S&P index in 2007 you'd be sitting on 71 grand right now so it's 7x your money if you invested that 10k into an index cards for

trading it'd be worth 165 grand not so bad so over double that so to your point picking out cards individual individuals is uh, individuals, is there an actual index for cards? Like if I said, look, I don't know if I ever want to trade young or a Zion or a Brady, I don't want the responsibility of picking this one card, whether it goes up or down, who knows? Is there an index that people can invest in just like the S&P 500? There, there are funds out there. There are a couple card funds out there. I know that a company called Alt has a fund. I know that Blowout has the Wax Fund, which I like as well. And I know that there are other entities that I think they're doing it more for private clients.

There are indexes like if you go get an app called card letter, it is a pricing tool and they have like an app of you, you can check sports by basically type in baseball, basketball, and they have a, they have a basket of the most highly collected cards and they show you what the trend is on that individual card. But no, as it gets bigger, it would be great if there were readily accessible funds, the closest thing to it now that you can buy without being an incredible investor is probably the fractional share companies.

Whereby you can buy an individual, like, hey, you wanna go out and get Mickey Manel cards, buy shares of Mickey Manel cards or buy shares of Michael Jordan or LeBron James. That's the closest thing to it, right? What are those companies called again? You've got Rowley, you've got Otis, you've got Collectable, there's a new one coming out with some ultra high end items called Liquid Marketplace, I think they're launching in the next month or two, but those are four groups that would be, if you're looking to do that type of thing. Cool. Very healthy.

We ready? Let's go for it. Lead the way. Okay. Let's just get these ready. We're ready. Lead the way. Okay, so Adam, what are you learning so far? Tyler, are you a card guy at all or no?

And to this episode, possibly. I used to know, as young, but I always have a telecard. If you're watching this right now, I'm curious. What has this done to you? Because the one thing about investment, a lot of people are like, why do you interview, there was an error, I was interviewing a lot of bodybuilders.

I've got so many complaints. Why are you interviewing bodybuilders? I don't care about bodybuilders. You're a business channel. Why are you interviewing mafia people? I don't care about mafia. It's a business channel. Why do you interview card people?

These are the things I'm interested in. I'm interested in collectible cards. But if the audience is listening and you put a little bit of time into it, there could be a pretty good return for you with cards. How are you processing today's conversational? Well, at the end of the day, just to circle back to what you said, whether it's bodybuilding, whether it's

mafiosos, whether it's even the Ken Golds of the World, everyone's an entrepreneur, and they're doubling down on their specific skill set. So I'm learning that Ken is an expert in this and You know, they say that the riches are in the niches Ken's Getting rich doing this and he's following the most beautiful thing in life is making you are you are you saying? No 10% of my money goes to cards. I'm but if there was an index fund. Yes because part like used to keep

200 cards on your desk. If the maid got, you know, feeling some type of way, she stole five of the cards, you wouldn't even notice, boom, you're down 50 grand. So for me, I wouldn't want like a card tied up in my house. Here you go. So that there has been a sell for that. Like for example, if you go to Golden Autions, or if you go to, you know, we're now we shorten the name just to golden, golden.co, not comp but golden.co and you click on Vault. What you can do is you can vault your cards, you can have them digitized so that, you know, you can see the cards and you, you know, there's a price guide analytical tool as well for it.

So people buy literally right now we've got about $125 million worth of product of individual's product. In this secure vault it's fully insured. You never have to worry about it. You can log into your account. You have a portfolio of all your cards. If you sell a card you can give us instructions to ship the card to somebody. If you want to put it, you can click and you can list it on

on golden to You know be sold or for auction. So and there are several other vaults out there. I'm obviously I'm golden. So I'm gonna prompt my But and it's a actually a completely free service. There's zero cost. We insured for free. The other thing it does is If you buy something, let's say from an auction house elsewhere and You are in a state to collect sales tax. The vault is located in Delaware. Therefore you ship it to the vault and There's no you deduct sales tax off your invoice. The old Delaware approach. Yep, so there you go. So you're saying that you don't necessarily

have to hold the tangible card. Correct. But Pat, you have all your cards. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's almost all of it, not all of it. Okay, so why do you hold on to all your cards rather than you serve us? It's going more in this direction,

but if you, some people have places where you put it in the safe because guests are coming over, you open up the car and you kind of look at them. There's something about looking at your cards. If you're an old, that's how I am. I like to take my cards that once a month and take a look at them.

What percentage, I feel like there's three different classes of people. I mean, if you're struggling and you're poor, you know, and you're not making a lot of money, just save up, save your money, like save that money, like half cash. Like don't just try to get a Mickey Mantle rookie card and then you're broke.

Okay, cool. Then there's the person who goes from just, all right, I'm trying to be a saver to try to become an investor. Now the first thing maybe you should do is have a 401k, IRA, like get just the basics. And then the third class of person is maybe someone like a pat is like dude

I'm good. I got the cash. I got the investments now. Let me look to diversify my asset class So rather than just stocks businesses real estate now you're getting into crypto NFTs cards, you know certain sort of Rare collectibles coins. What have you gold even is that? Essentially the basis for investing or what do you recommend? Like who should definitely not spend all their money on cards and who should step up to the plate and actually diversify? People who need the cash in the bank

to cover food, rents and insurance should not be spending it on cards. Okay, that's, you know, that's, I, you know, I think that level number two, I know a lot of kids that are in college that literally have a, you know, come from middle class families, have seven figure bank accounts and seven figure card collections from buying and selling and investing over the years. I know some, some 21 year old who goes to school and fill it off here, who I've been trying to hire for two years. I can't because I literally can't,

you know, can't pay the kid $150,000 a year because he's, you know, making five X that with cards on the market. Like as we have golden up here, you know, that's obviously another place you can buy. We're more high end, like we have an auction running right now. We have items that may range from $1,000 to over a million. But virtually every name we spoke about

except the Honest Wagner, whether it be Mickey Mantle, whether it be LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Jackie Robinson, Babe Ruth, all of those items are available in some variation at Golden right now. But getting back to the box, you know, look, I, there are people I deal with. I think they're a little nuts. There are people that have 90% of their investable assets in cards. And they feel that they want to invest in what they know. They feel the stock market is manipulated. They feel that people are crooked. They don't believe it.

They feel is not free trade. They feel what trading cards, they have a competitive advantage and that they can hold the assets and they can control what they buy and what they sell and not be up there where some, I don't want to pick on any publicly held company, but where they own, I will pick on one, because I was stuck with some of the stock. Where they got Peloton, they thought they got a great deal, buying it at 80 bucks because it was down

and then it goes down to 30 because they announced when they put out their earnings at, oh, by the way, we've been really sucking for the past couple of months and we didn't give anybody an advance warning. But they don't want that to happen to them but they don't want that to happen to them. They don't want that to happen to them. Or they look at the financial crisis, P, you can pick one, but in 2020,

when they said some people, the COVID came out and everybody forced the market down and then all the billionaires bought it all up cheap and now tired and then never was. So they wanna have up cheap and now it's harder than it ever was. So they want to have some control and typically the younger you are, the less likely you are to buy stocks. Thank you. Let's open it up.

Sure. Let's lead away. So this is what's called the hot pack. So we're going to do this less. Okay. Okay. Now the key with this card is, tell me why you call a hot pack? Because this has, this is a hobby exclusive

and it has a guaranteed, called an X-Fractor in here, which is one of those rare cards. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. There's one guaranteed X-Fractor in this box. So what we're looking at, and with these cards,

they are,'s over here. There you go. Yeah, I should have brought a map. Notice how he carefully opens the pack. Yes. In fact, notice his hands are not dirty. Here we go. I'm going to see who I got.

Okay, so we have an easy guy to be careful not to touch. You get Quirmer getting. We able to see this by the way. If you can, yeah, if you can put the camera, can you guys zoom in one of the cameras? John, if you want to come in your George so we can zoom it in okay Sasha Cory McGuity okay Duke I remember him Steve Francis guy if you franchise yeah Kurt Thomas my meat

checklist we don't want that What is that card you say it's a just checklist. This is not okay. And Mike sweet name. Okay. Sweet name. No, George town bus. I will tell you is people go say, oh my god, you get fingerprints. Some people open up cards with gloves. You can damage the, I find you can damage the card that way because you don't have the real feel. And what people do is they can take a microfiber and just clean a fingerprint off it. And anytime you, anytime you send a card out to get grading, if you're not taking a microfiber and touching the cards to make sure you're removing your fingerprints,

you're downgrading your grade. Now Ken, there's only five cards per pack. There's only five cards per pack. Excuse me, four cards, 24 packs per box, four cards per pack. I gotta tell you, the cards are cooler than I remember. They're like, they're like almost risen. I'm the silver guy here.

Matt Harpring, Jalen Rose, Jalen Rose, 81. You know what's 81? Pavlovik, what's 81 in the world? Kobe scored 81 in Jalen. Kobe scored, eight in the corner. Travis Hanson, okay? Travis Hanson, I don't remember that guy at all. Travis Hansen. Okay. Travis Hansen.

I don't remember that guy at all. Here we go. This box. So some of these cards are just whatever. Some dude who never made it whatsoever. And then you got guys like Steve Francis, who's arguably a Hall of Famer. Yes.

You got a lot of rookies. And also these guys all made it. They're all in the NBA. Mm-hmm. Okay. So we got, is this able to show it all? If you can zoom in. Yeah. We got a whole hand in the NBA. Okay. So we got, is this able to show it all? If you can zoom in. Yeah.

We got a whore hand in the case. If we can hold it in the mouth, we're gonna be okay. Brent Barry, who was one of the greatest fantasy players of all time because he had amazing percentages everywhere. Brent Barry. Wow. He won the dunk contest. Yeah.

Bobby Jackson, great point guard. Minnesota. Marcus Banks. Marcus Banks. Come on. UNLV. We need a little bride out of his box. Yeah Banks. UNLV. We need a little bride out of his box. Yeah, we do, Ken.

Okay, we just pulled the good rookie because I sold the back. Okay. Okay, so we have a better rookie. It'll be the last card. Let's hope it is more in this pack. Mono. Definitely a future whole famer in the back of this pack.

Monoing, Chernobyl? No, no, no. What have we got there? No. That is Chernobyl. He's definitely in me. He's just got it. He's got it all in. And he curry.

Bust. Richard Hamilton. Repairton. All the favor. He lives right across the street for months. Oh, you know what's serious? Ken just busted out that plastic cover. And what do you got there Ken a

chrome Camilla Anthony Wow Carola Anthony working card you put that right in the plastic. Yep, absolutely Malo's a little shout out to you buddy. That's why you guys won't get your fingerprints on it. What's so like this go for? It's it's not a thousand dollar card, but at least at least it's a hundred dollars a hundred dollars. Yes, so a rookie mellow Nuggets Got rookie in the back of this one not the rookie I want to see Okay, we got let's roll spree well Spree well joke is coach out of here the first thing I thought about Karan Butler

Karan Butler? Karan. Assistant coach, they're here. For Murphy, and I gotta look at these carefully, just to make sure I'm not skipping over a refractor. I probably have already, because the refractors, they did the same front, but they're shiny. So, and all these cards are kind of shiny. So again, is this basically what you did with Drake?

This is exactly what I did with Drake, yes. Now, the difference with the 86 flare boxes, because they were all well-known players mostly. You had a lot of cards that everybody wants to get. Andre Miller. And they also only had 132 cards in the set. This is a much larger set. Andre Miller, very underrated card Jason. Yeah, he was actually pretty good Terry the jet Jarvis face Pat's just looking for a Dennis Rodman rookie card. That's that that would be 1988. See he knows 88 same year as Pippin. I will be right that fleer. Yep exactly set while he's there Kwame Brown talk about your old great-podcaster

This was for you time. We got to get Kwame on the scene He's he's blown up by the way as blown up with. Like, two years ago his card would have been irrelevant. Now he's fighting with. Was it, um, who was he fighting with? With a commentator like Matt Barnes and all the smoke pops out. Just Steven A Smith. Is that the one who was? Oh, it was Steven A Smith.

Yes, it was Steven A Smith. You're right. Okay. You're right. Well, who doesn't have beef with Steven A Smith? Okay, so we have, so you can see right here, We have a refractor. You can see a difference. Yep. Yep. Okay. So let's hope it's somebody who's good because if it is that'll pay for the box Eric snow. No any hard way second best player

to any penny any heart. No, you just said We have a good card. What do we got what do we got? penny. Oh, we have a good card. What do we got? What do we got? Oh, we have a really good card We have a Tracy McGrady game warn Sick team-ac Okay, so let's get that Tracy McGrady game warn Jersey. Yes, you have to 25

Refractor, okay, so we pulled First one is I've actually pulled a 2003 chrome. Can you can you zoom it in? It's a See if you're on it or not I got to tell the tracey McGrady That's the angle right there if you got it. That's the camera. Okay, you see it or no Okay, good. Yeah, they can see it back and make sure the back you can see where it's got the congratulations and you got the number 25. It's one out of 25.

Yes. Huh. So what's something like that go for? I couldn't even quote this off top of my head. So it's I've never I know the million dollars. No, I will. Anyway, what is one of 25? No, 25. Okay. So that's good. Let me put this in here too.

T-Mac could have been going down as one of the best players ever if you avoided the 5 out of 25. That's a good one. And then we got the last one is Josh Moore. Never in my heart. All right we got a team back here. Oh wow, it's got the little piece of his jersey in the card. It's actually pretty dope. Game worn shorts. So they cut off a little piece of his shorts.

They put in the card. They started doing, yeah. Can I remember back in the day when I was growing up in the 1920s? It came with gum. Please go ahead and be good. Here you go and be good here you go PPD. Let's see what we got here Okay, we got a really really really good card, but not a really good player Gary Payton Kai Gary Payton. What do you mean? No, no, no, no, we got So you would be 1990 or no 92 I believe right? Peyton I think we're proud I think Peyton is I think 91. Yeah, they're a Coleman same here as a Coleman

I believe it's a rune of so gaskus so this is what's known as a black Refractor it is one of the holy grail cards If this were LeBron we'd have a half a million dollar card right now. Who's that who's card is that? This is Mike Miller three points specialists. Yeah, I'm Memphis Chris. Now if you keep some like that, is that in the few thousands or no? Only if it's a 10 yes. So this is limited to 500 But the black refractors are very very tough tough because it's because of the border to get you know really high grade. So this one is definitely this one's perfect. That's why it's so big. Mike Miller. Mike Miller was a you want it for the hero? Game 7. Now, Ken, if you could somehow pull

an RV to subonus the best passing big man of all time. I would love that man. Who was a fool who would go to? Was that you and I? Yes. So when you open these cards with Drake, and every first card had to stick a gum on it, how much, how many cards are actually high value cards that you can't get the gum off of? Luckily with Drake, there was none on a Jordan

and none on any of the key rookie cards. They don't do the gum anymore, right? No, they don't do gum anymore, luckily. But they used to why did they put the gum in there? It was a top started as a gum company. It was bazooka. You know, bazooka Joe. Yeah, Joe. Great. Y'all Ming, that would be a good card if it was a refractor. Nene.

They may just like Elvis one day, mongly. That's right. And Murray's Williams. Okay. You remember Nene name Oh, will you? I'll do one here. Yeah, do you want to do it? Yeah, let's do it. All right Tyler. Do you want to do one? All right, let's see what we got here PBD Okay

So the way you're doing it is So the way you're doing it is So I go like this, I take it up top I hold the edges and I just pull it out So you can go like that and then once I get a seam I just carefully peel out Take it at the top Can you grab a scissors? I'm just gonna stick this thing up So you're just pulling it up? Take it at the top. Could you grab a scissors?

Just pulling it up. Did you want me to, um, when we start the packs for you guys? I would love for you to do that. I can see myself pulling this apart and butchering it. DVD would you send that to to Ken? If that has that has my Arvita subonus card in there, I'm running out to studio. Ken.

Nick Van Exel. Oh, yeah. Sixth place so much with the Lakers before Kobe Ken Nick Van Exel. Oh, yes, I want to play so much with the Lakers before Kobe was Nick Van Exel. Yes, yep I got a Duwan Wagner Do you remember Duwan? Yeah, of course came out of high school. I believe he's Van His son is the is the number one number one high school player in the country really point card. Yep wow Travis outlaw. He played for Adam. Let's see your luck. Adam. Here we go. I know this guy.

Duncan's rookies. What year? Huh? What's what year is Duncan? 99. Duncan is is, is, is, 2, 99. Is, 1997. 97. Yeah. If he won, he won with Dave Robinson. Yes. And 99, that's some type of.

I got a drop. Go hold on, hold on. What are you guys? I don't know what just happened here. But I got a Kobe. Okay. I got a Kobe bat. There we go.

This is for you, BBD. So let's get there, let's get there. What do we do with here? I just pulled a Draco worth anything or no No, that's so cool put it in here put the Kobe here, too. You're going in you see this? You just got a Kobe Pat because I love you so much. I'm giving you my Kobe card. Unbullivable. You go sir in here. Thank you I got Jamal Mashburn who I just saw at the heat game the other day good for you mash all mashburn giving you my Kobe Kart unbulleted go sir in here thank you

i got jim all masher who i just saw the heat game the other day good for you masher all masher burn yeah what what story you know about jim all masher burn i don't know he was doing some shady stuff in kentucky what do you got jim all masher burn remember the three jays jim all masher burn jimmy jaxon jimmy jaxon that's right jaxon i got Brian Grant and a very underrated big man Zaza Patulia. Remember Zaza did Brian Grant play with is that his brother or no? No, right?

Because there was a Harvey Grant Harvey Grant. No, Brian Grant was a heat guy with dreads. I think he said run into some health issues recently. But he got traded with Lamar Odom to the Lakers. I got a Risha Davis Carmelone Carmelone matte harping Harping and then I got a rookie. No, I don't think that is John Sensen Here you go Got you that Kobe Carmel match for Brian Grant John's Here you go

That Kobe card mall mesh for Brian grants Can I appreciate you opening up the car? By the way, the only television below graphic the only time I open up plastics up against if I'm opening up a condom so this is Marcus, my old days, sorry guys use protection. That's I'm saying kids Richie Miller. Oh, I got a refractor Not a great guy, but is refractor. I'll show you guys how you can tell me Sean Mary on I mean you get a matrix The way I will say this I'm feeling very childlike right now. This is like a cool feeling Like I haven't done this stuff and let me see how you can tell you 30 years

Refractor you have to notice that this chrome is the chrome's a little dull here and it's a little bright here And you look at the back and you see the bottom left if you see 160 it's a refractor If you see what color like these or it's not the color it's gotta say number one sixty. No no no no no it's gotta be shiny so you really have to be able to see it so I probably should look at your guys cards when you're done to see if you passed over any see if you passed over any refractor. I think this one might be a refractor. Mike Dunlavy Jr. shout out to the Dunlavy family. This one seems a little uh...

and what's the big deal with refractors on the trying to collect the set and they need to of total refractors right getting refractor sets are like highly expensive and virtually impossible checklist now what are these checklist for uh... to see no who's in the set uh... you know this is not a refractor. Okay. So these are all 0, 3, 0, 4, these are all three not rookies though, just they

played in the league. Yes, they were in the league in 0, 3, 0, 4. Some of these guys are Antonio McDice. Damn David West. Come on, where are you, LeBron? I'm gonna put that here. See, here you go. I'm sure Lewis. I think I just pulled a Dirk refractor. You said did, okay?

No whiskey. So if there's, Ken, if there's one player in the league, not like a Hall of Famer, not like an MJ LeBron, but like a young up-and-comer who's maybe been in the league for the last two, three years. And you can get your hands on his rookie card. Who would it be? You're talking like a Lucas, is it a tray young?

A John Moran? Look, look, obviously, obviously John Moran is doing amazing. His cards have gone up. Luka is doing amazing. His cards are already up there. I mean, Luka has a lot of expectations built into his card prices, but he certainly can dominate the league. I think Trey has come off a little bit this year. I like, I think, Tatum is really might be undervalued. The

guy, I'm going to mention somebody, it's going to be a home buddy, but I think it is really might be undervalued the guy I'm gonna mention somebody is gonna be a home buddy But I think is really undervalued and that is Joe L. M. B. My god, Yannis certainly look what if he honest wins four championships and five MVP So he's got one championship. He's got two MVP's it look like and beat was gonna win the MVP this year Now it's probably a toss up between and bead and and Yonis you know well yeah Yoke Yoke is well Yoke is um interesting guy yeah he's um he does not have the type of game that inspires collectors is yeah so he's the he's the raining MVP he is the raining MVP But there are there are there are some players who are amazing players, but are under price like for example James Harden people don't love buying

James Harden Carts I think James Harden is you know Drastically undervalued for what you're comfortable. He's got a win-a-champion chef to get that respect. Yeah, exactly I don't know do you think Janus can win a championship according to Tom's that I'll never, exactly. I don't know. Do you think Janus can win a championship? According to Tom Zatter, he'll never win one. I think. Yeah, I think Janus, is that anything? It's nothing over there. Nothing over there. Okay. So we got what? Three more packs left. We got, yeah, we got three more and we've got we got three more and then we've got the money pack. Okay. Let's see

what we got here. Let's see what we got. Ken, thanks for making me feel like a child again. I appreciate everybody. Okay, I got a pretty good rookie in the back. Let's hope it's got here. Ken, thanks for making me feel like a child again. I appreciate that, buddy. Okay, I got a pretty good working in the back. Let's hope it's a refractor. No. Ken, how old is your son? My son is eight.

So, is there anything more in life that you love just opening up cards with your son? Oh, it's great. It's great. It's great. You do this with Dylan or Tico? P-B-D? Yeah, I would do a big day, they like Pokemon cards. See, that's like what Ken was saying. Another refractor.

The Paul is really into baseball and, not your son, baseball and basketball. Yeah, yeah. So I'm remarried, so I have a 25 year old daughter and a 22 year old daughter who until, Hey, so tell me what this is. You may want to look at this. Okay, see, you don't want to look at this what see you don't know look at this what this is oh there you go we got it what do we got I

pulled a little branch you got the brawn okay congrats this is it this is what we want it nicely done pvd so and right behind it look what's right behind it, look what's right behind it, they'll can, that's what you got to see, what's behind it. Whoa! Oh! Oh! Wow! He reaches for the glasses. Oh! Oh!

He's got the Carmella rookie refractor. This is sector. This was the hot pack. So Pat pulled out the hot pack. Yes. Pat, congratulations. Wow, okay. So there's that.

So this is the Carmella refractor rookie. Yes. Yeah. I Don't know. I just pulled the boards the out guys. I don't know Okay, the French connection putty decent defender though. This is really great. I'm very happy with the Brom these two cards Way to go. So yeah, this is a fairly say that that LeBron card just paid for the pack? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way to go, PBD. Yes. Is it Carmella? Let's see, we got Desmond Mason.

Oh, I got something good coming up. Scotty Pippin. I got a Chris Bosch rookie. Chris Bosch is also a Chris Bosch. Yeah, that was a by the way, oh three. Oh three. They call it one of the best, if not the best, right? Oh, correct. Oh three right there. And he weighed. Here we go. Yeah, that was a by the way oh three they call a one of the best if not the best right correct

Oh three right there and you wait here. We go Dark or miniature oh I just pulled maybe the best looking guy an NBA history You guys know who Sam Kasele is of course absolute stud doesn't look like an alien at all Tim Thomas. Oh, damn. Okay. So we have it is Jason Richardson, X

Fractor J rich. What a dunker. How many how many don't contest that he went to? So this is what's called an X Fractor. You look at it. You can see, I'll pass it down. Let me do the 220, but they put it in the holders back in the day so that you would not get the car damaged. When he came out I mean people thought he was

going to be a bigger star than this guy had this guy had an interesting game. You can jump through the roof you just could see if any are the other drivers before we set them aside. Yep. Okay. 25,000 out of box, huh? Interesting. So now to get these cards graded, it's gonna take us how long? Um, I can get them graded pretty quickly. Okay. I know somebody else. Can you know somebody? So I do just give them to you to get them greater. We can take care of that for you. Very good. Perfect.

If that we have phone calls if you want. Do we? Let's get them. But it's got to be about cards. It's got to be about cards. Okay. They're all called. Well, let's do them. Let's get some of these callers in. We've got Drake on the line. Drake. How you feeling, buddy? Hey, man. We have Kyle. Kyle. Let's get Kyle. Kyle. What's going on? What you got?

Hey, good good morning guys. I'm just watching the packet and open and watching you guys talk and just had a question on what you guys thought the fanatics deal would have on the industry going forward. I have an answer either one of you weren't answering. No you don't care. I can't do the expert. Okay. So, let me give you the negative. The downside is that, you know, you never really love monopoly, right? You never want one company controlling all the licenses. Setting that aside, I think that this is potentially

an unbelievable historic moment. Here's what's happening right now in cards. You know, these flawless cases, I was talking about that went, we don't have going for $40,000 plus. I, Fanatics got under $10,000 for those cases. So what happened is that the middlemen are the ones that are making all the money.

Fanatics is what their goal is to try and put more cards directly into the hands of consumer. So they will get more money for the product, but at the same time, they're going to eliminate a lot of the distribution people who, you know, if I own a card store, why would I just want to call fanatics and buy myself? Why do I want to go through a broker? So what that's going to allow them to do is charge more for the product, which in this case is not a bad thing because they're not charging more for the product, they're actually getting it to the customer less.

So let's say, Penini, instead of getting $8,000 a case, got $20,000 for those cases that are selling for 40. Okay, and the consumer was able to buy them at $20,000 a case directly from Penini. So the consumer would be buying them at a cheaper price. Penini would be getting more money. If you get more money per product, you can make a better product. You can put more money into the product. You can buy more autographs.

You can buy more Jersey cards. You can spend more money on advertising. Fanatics is a 27-pullier last valuation, 27-billion-dollar company. That's insane. So they are, and this is what I love They have a 20-year License agreement with everybody so I've competed against Michael Rubin in a formal life when I was selling on TV back in the owner of the 76er Michael Rubin one of the owners of 76ers, but the owner of fanatics the print

Oh, that's how he made his money. That's how he made his money so fanatics. So he's the principal shareholder of fanatics, the principal shareholder fanatics. And he's a very smart guy. He's very strategic. So they have a 20 year license. So you know what they don't have to do? They don't have to flood the market in year one, two, and three. If you want to make money in the card industry, this may be my best tip for everybody today. Whatever, whenever a fanatic starts putting out new product, okay, under their licenses,

buy the first two editions, the first two key editions of baseball, basketball, and football. You know, you got to wait until their product filters and the reason is, is if they are smart, you know, they got 20 years, they got to pay these fees for 20 years. They got to make sure that their first few releases

blow up in value to support giving them a track record. So I think what they're gonna do is they're gonna really create great product, the first, I hope they do it for 20 years, but certainly the first few years they're gonna create great product, they're gonna under produce to make sure they get people excited that the customers make money in the cards.

The customers enjoy the cards. It's a great experience for everybody and set them on their own great track record. I am excited for the industry with the fanatics deal because I think it's going to drastically expand. I think it's going to give consumers a chance to get product at a better cheaper price and enjoy the appreciation as opposed to Somebody that you know somebody who has you know just taking possession of the product for a week and selling it Making the money. Plus. I think it's gonna got a lot more players involved They've got player relationships. They've got all these athletes signed to contract

Getting really in the weeds Used to be back in the day like this Jersey card that we pulled to trace some of the Grady guess what? It was worn in a game by Trace and the Grady. The past couple of years the Jersey's been so hard to come by, they're like literally, they're like shelf jerseys, like right off they go to Dick Sporting Goads and do it. So Fanatics is going to make sure they're actually game used and buy the game used stuff and put it on the card. So I think that they are going to make a better product for consumers and I think that the initial purchase price by consumers are going to be an affordable and more realistic price. Ken, what is the, maybe it's a

black swan event, I don't know, but is there something out there that maybe would be a worst-case scenario for the cards? Like, yeah, getting involved in the cards, different asset class, but oh, we didn't see this coming and all of a sudden the market goes down 20%, 50%. What would that be in this marketplace? Well, for me, the, for out of production product, I don't see that event. Okay, because the products are already out there. You know, like obviously with any athlete, you can have an event like the European, you know, Dishon Watson recently signed. Okay. Obviously he had all the charges

You know last year two years ago and his cards went all the way down. Yeah, so you know with any current living athlete Should they do anything to put themselves in disfavor with the public that can hurt You're saying more individuals than the actual market. More individuals in the market. The only thing that can hurt the market is the card manufacturer's putting out a doubt of a product or overproducing. Those are the two major risk factors. What do you think I should do with all my OJ Simpson

rookie cards? Those have gone down quite a bit. I don't think they're going to come back. I think the novelty of Tim being a murderer has gradually... Well, they did win the civil case. But it has weakened over time. I was around during that, when it was actually happening, people were going crazy for stuff and for his autographs during the chase. but you know the interest is slowly waned over time.

Right. Okay, let's get to the next caller. Ja, if we got another one, let's go to next one. Yeah, we have Chris on the line. Chris, how you doing? What's on your mind? Doing fantastic. Gentlemen, nice to see you guys kicking off a Monday, open up the back cards with the boys. Down to business. So I have just a question for Ken. the back cards with the boys down the business. So I have just a question for Ken. Currently have an entire base set, first edition Pokemon cards. Majority of the Chinese are graded 8.5 and above.

Now looking at the market, it's very difficult to read because I'm in kind of a unique position. We're not a lot of people have an entire set. So my question to you would be, how would you approach that? Would you go through an auction? to you would be, how would you approach that? Would you go through an auction? Would you go through, what would your approach to be to go ahead

and sell those if I was interested in that? Well, sure, every time somebody tries to sell in their own, what do you've got to realize, I'll use gold in this example. I can touch a button and I can send out an email that 500,000 people can get at any one point in time. So if you look at Pokemon, for example, we did the break with Logan Paul

and we sold those packs on Golden. So we have all the high-end Pokemon collectors that are at Golden. If you try to sell it yourself, let's say you try to sell it yourself on eBay, you don't know who's gonna be watching, you don't know what type of following you have, you don't know who's gonna be watching, you don't know what type of following you have, you don't know if the bidders are actually bidding

because there's no controls over who places a bid, and you don't know if you're actually gonna get paid with the larger more established auction houses and marketplaces, they approve their bidders, they watch the bidding, they make sure you collect, they're gonna highlight it, they're gonna advertise it, you're not gonna be one of 75 million products listed. So you really want to try and find the right place to sell it and really the right auction, for example, going in,

next month at Golden, we have a Jackie Robinson auction. That probably is not the ideal place to sell Pokemon. However, after that, we have a non-sports comic book video game and TCG auction. That is certainly more likely to attract people who are interested in Pokemon than something that's generic. Wonderful. Thanks so much for the time, guys. Great feedback, by the way. Great feedback.

Thank you, Chris. Next person, John. We don't have anyone else, Zach Kongo, he didn't want to know about UFC trading cars and are you interested? Yeah, UFC has really been taken off You know, we're lucky that Conor McGregor follows us and he's retweeted some of our tweets every time We've sold a record of his card, but UFC again. It's worldwide, it's relatively new, the trading cards. They are rapidly gaining an audience, not only for the fights, but rapidly gaining an audience for the trading card collectors, and it is a hotly contested license.

So yeah, I like UFC cards going forward. You got to get your hands on one of these paddy, the baddy cards. That's my guy. Yeah. I can't blow up. Paddy, the baddy. You know that guy? patty the baddy cards. That's my guy. Yeah, I kids gonna blow up patty the baddy You know that guy. Yeah, of course I know that great. I bought a I bought Conor's best card Which was the autograph and I think it's like one out of 25 if you know what you want to talk about Conor has

$30,000 it wasn't a lot of money 25 or 30,000 dollars and With things like Aaron Rogers would you say Aaron Rogers is under price right now, under valued right now? Ooh, that's a good one. I would say I would rather invest in Aaron Rogers cards than say Patrick Mahomes cards. Really? And I'll tell you why.

I'll tell you why. I think that, you know, first of all, he's a packer. You know, second of all, he's got so many MVP awards, he's gonna go down as one of the all-time legends. And I think that his cards lost a bit of a shine last year during the whole, I'm vaccinated, I'm not vaccinated thing, and I think his cards went down.

The further we get from that, people are gonna care less. Yep. Anyone the MVP again? Anyone the MVP again, okay? And he signed the largest contract in NFL, my home's on the other hand. I think that his cards went up rapidly

when people looked at the rookie class and looked at the NFL and said, wow, this guy is in the chief. He's just going to rush through the NFL for the next 5, 10 years and rack up 5, 6 Super Bowls. What they didn't see coming was just in Herbert. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, they did not realize, oh my look, there's an argument to be made the Josh Allen is the best pure quarterback in the NFL I mean the guys yeah the guy is absolutely amazing So I think it's tougher. I love Patrick my home's cards. I love him as a player But I think it's gonna be tougher for him to rack up all those super balls that people expect people expect

Totally agree with you Roger's all Rogers really, you know, they talk about basketball, they talk about Jordan, LeBron and Kobe. Rogers would be part of those, those three, whether it's Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers. I would say those would be my three. Can we talk about Tom Brady real quick? Sure. I mean, he's the go.

He's the go. Nobody's better than Tom. I don't care what you say. Absolutely. What happened where he retired? Some guy bought his last footballs, his last touchdown pass for a half a million bucks. Boom, the next day, hey, I'm going back. Like, how much money did that guy lose? Talk about downs, downside about buying a memorabilia. In theory, had the guy bought it and paid for it, he would have lost probably 90% of the value. In actuality, the football has not been paid for. If that transaction happened to Golden,

I just simply would have reversed the transaction because the ball was advertised as his last ever touchdown and literally the day after it avoided. There should have been a disclaimer in there. They could have put something in there that said, hey, Tom Brady is retired. As of today, it's his last football. I'm providing never plays another NFL game then, then they be covered.

Right now, they're probably, if the auction house, Leland's wants to press it, they probably will be a lawsuit and will be interested to see who wins. But obviously, it's going to cost them a lot of money. But no, that ball was worth for a second $500,000 plus and then it becomes worth what a Tom Brady Touchdown touchdown during the playoffs is worth which is really nice But certainly between 25 and 50,000. Well assuming he actually does come back and throws another touchdown correct Yes, Tyler how are we looking all right real quick? We open a $25,000 box, right? Can you ballpark? I mean, you

had seven or eight good cards, right? Maybe 10. Can you throw a ballpark number on what what it was worth? A lot of it depends on what that migrating is worth. I don't know off the top of my head. I know the Carmella's a few thousand LeBron. Interestingly, the LeBron During the height of COVID was probably a 28,000-dollar card now. It's probably closer to 10,000 so I'm gonna say in the teens how high in the teens, you know We'd have to go card for card and see what the grades come out. Well, Ken I really think that's all grading. It's really cool that you agreed before the show to split this three ways That's really nice

I appreciate it. Anyways, tomorrow we have who we have. So we have Kevin, Kevin, tomorrow, tomorrow, Dave Rubin Thursday, Joe Jorgensen Friday. And you know, it is Bitcoin week in Miami. There's some big speeches. Bitcoin is a special guest show up. Everyone Rogers is speaking as well. I believe there's a few big names that we're talking to today's week is a big week that kicked off with the card king himself. Okay, take care everybody. We'll see you guys tomorrow night,

thank you, Kim, for coming up. Appreciate you, this was wonderful. Great experience. Take care everybody, bye bye. you