PBD Podcast - Michael Franzese | PBD Podcast | EP 86

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

During episode 86 of the PBD Podcast, Patrick Bet-David sits down with Adam Sosnick, Gerard Michaels, and Michael Franzese to talk about topics such as the anniversary of 9/11, why most mobsters are on the political left, political corruption, and much more! Watch the full podcast: https://youtu.be/UQik0QqLnjo --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

We have a special guest today, Michael, friend seats. If you're excited that Michael is here with us, give us a thumbs up and subscribe to the channel. Especially if you want to see mafia states of America because that's a project we're going to be talking about today, Michael. That's it.

How you feeling? I feel good. I'm in Florida. What could be better? So it was interesting. Yesterday we're having dinner at Casa de Angelo, which by the way, the food, actually, they're crushed in. Yeah, they close at at 10 o'clock, we left that 11 o'clock,

not once the Dino complain, not a word. If his name is Dino, it could be Jose, but he claims it's from Italy, so, you know, I think he's afraid of Adam. That's what happened. That's exactly what it is. What was it? Right next to Michael, he's afraid of me. No, no, kosher no strut.

That's the kosher no strut. No strut, that was hilarious. Those are my people. That's Adam's jokes joke, but we had a good time last night. I think that's that we were at shooters and I'm going to shooters to meet with my Goldman guy and then I see Michael there with the family. I'm like Michael, what are you guys doing here? It was an interesting story. He had with shooters. If you don't mind sharing with the audience. Yeah, first of all, when I went by

and on boat, I didn't recognize it because they redid the whole thing like seven eight years ago, but that was the first date I had with my wife. She was 20 years old, and actually I was home. I had a place in Del Rey Beach. I was home sleeping. Somebody said, hey, that beautiful girl is there tonight. You know, come by. So I got dressed, went down there specifically to see her.

Specifically to see her. Wow. And we spent a couple hours together and the rest of history as they say literally the rest of history yes yeah you've got how many kids together we have four by the way beautiful kids can great one of them is apparently you was a bodybuilder that's my daughter my daughter yeah she's a personal trainer and you know the roll into all the girls are into fitness.

My wife and all the girls. The guys were, you know, we're athletes. But by the way, water skier. Fun fast. Yes. Michael, people don't believe your age, just so you know, people want to check your ID because they don't believe your age. Michael, if you're comfortable saying it on camera, I'm good.

I'm 70 years old. 70 years old. Yeah. Water skiing yesterday in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah. So you actually went water skiing yesterday? I went water skiing. I hadn't done it in a long time but it was great and I wanted to do it here in Florida. The water's so warm. You don't want to get out of the water. I want to do a quick, a commercial for Florida. How many times have you been in the water in California? Have been living there for 40 years almost? One time.

And how many times you've been in Florida? One time. One, I'll never go back. That was like 35 years ago. Never go, it's too cold. Yeah. You know, and especially now I got in here in the beach and you don't want to get out of the water.

Water's just fine. Come on, man. It's like your situation. How different is Florida today? Versus back in the days when the mob, because the mob had a lot of things they did in Florida. This was a hub. I mean, my landscape was a jump off your back in the days. This was great because the mob had a lot of things they did in Florida. This was a hub. I mean, Jansky was doing stuff here back in the days.

This was great to go to Cuba before, you know, things were shut down with the hotel when Lansky was running. How much of a change is Florida today versus what it was back in the days? I mean, there's still guys living down here that I know of, but it was a big spot for us. I mean, when we went anywhere, we'd come to Florida. That was it.

And I had a big, you know, gas operation down here. I loved it down here. But different today, everything's different today, Patrick. I mean, it's not the same influence, the same presence anywhere in the country, really. Even in New York. You know, there was a time when I'm not kidding. Every single day, you pick up the New York Post, the New York Daily News, there was a mob story. Now, I read the New York Post every morning online. Maybe every six months you'll see something. Why is that?

Things have changed. I mean, the old guard is gone. The new guys are staying undercover. It's not the same as it was before in any way, shape or form. Look, you've got to give the credit to Giuliani and that whole force back in the mid-80s, early to mid-80s when he really started effectively using the Racketering Act and put everybody away and changed everything.

Took the union control away, did so much damage to that life, which I guess is good for everybody else, but we're better for the life. And really, so this is back in the days, when you were doing eight to 12 million a week, how much of it was, here how much of it was in New York? Well, I got indicted down here.

I think it was like $190 million that they indicted us for down here. We had a big operation down here. I was trying to move most of what we had up there down here to Florida. Yes. When you say down here, what part of Florida? All over. It was Browdyed. Okay. all over it was Broward, Dave. Yeah. Okay. I guess. Broward, Dave. Yeah. I just want to revisit something that you said because I don't want to gloss over this. You said you got to give respect to Rudy Giuliani for what

he did. So do you respect Rudy? Is that what you're saying? Well, I didn't back then. You know, you told me he was going to give me 100 years when he indicted me, but I do now. Yeah. What changed? Obviously, just age? Was there... No, listen, you know, he was good at what he did. He was better at what he did than we were at what we did at the time. So he got us, you know, there's no doubt about it.

He used it, look, my case, I don't believe I should have involved in that case, but he didn't frame me. There was some semblance of something that he could have indicted me on. He did, but I was acquitted, so I beat it and was legitimately acquitted but look you got to give him credit I mean he was a good prosecutor he knew what he was doing and I think he he firmly believed that what he was doing was the right thing so you can't get mad at somebody like that well how do you process that

I mean this is his biggest competitor you know you deal with competitors you want to talk to us what does Peyton Manning say about Brady? Oh yeah. What are you gonna say? I mean, the guy's better than you. You know how hard it is for Manning to be able to swallow and say, hey, this guy, yesterday, quote came out about what Brady said back in 2012.

And the guy has the question, says, man, how's it gonna feel when you pass up Montana? He says, I'm not going after Montana, I'm going after Jordan. So thinking about, I mean, I don't care about winning five. I care about winning seven because seven is one more than Michael Bennett. So there's did it.

And he did it. So in other words, tougher to win seven rings in the NFL than it is to win six in the NBA because in the NBA, you get seven games. So meaning you can have a bad day and lose to Eli Manning twice. It ain't going to happen in the NBA. You're not going to have four great games.

You know what I'm saying? So, but anyways, going back to it. You're going back to it. You're going to quote the vote of Manning and Brady in the Hall of Fame induction. Oh yeah, well that was, well, Tom. Manning's pretty funny, obviously everybody knows Manning. And they had the matchups where they were in the AFC Championship five years in a row. And one of the pre-games Manning gave the response to me like, what's it like

when you go up against Brady? He's like, well, you know, I don't really go up against Tom Brady. I go up against defense and that's, you know, so I don't think of it as me competing against Tom Brady. I got to beat the defense. You don't play safety. And then he has Brady the same thing. He's like, yeah, I want to kick Manning's ass.

Absolutely. I see every pass he makes and I need to make, I need need if he goes 17 for 19, I'm going 18 for 19. That's the difference in mentality. That was deflection on Man Exas. Oh for sure. Yeah, because by the way, Man Exas super competitive. Even from Tennessee when he came out of the guys, people forget how good I think Peyton Manning was.

Like, I think it was 2004, he threw 490 passes and had 49 touchdowns. One out of every 10 passes he threw went for a touchdown. The dude was on trails. He's great, no doubt. Is he connected to the mob? Is that what we're going with? Manning, there's anyone that is not connected to the mob. It's the A.

There's only one way. I'm not that big, be told. Are you a giant guy? Are you a Yankees guy? I was a jets guy most of my life. I'm sorry. Yeah, nobody's perfect. Well, you know what? I'm a loyal guy, but I left the team because of management. They just never put a good team on the field for how many years?

So you're a jets guy? Yeah, you got it. No, let me tell you something. You're an island guy. You'll arrange a guy on an islander. I don't like hockey. I'm not a big hockey guy. Yeah, what? Nick's. No, no, no, let me tell you. You're an island guy. You'll arrange a guy in an islander. I don't like hockey. I'm not a big hockey guy. So he doesn't like cool. He really, yeah, he really, he really, he really, he really

is. He's cool. And he's cool. But I'll tell you what happened. You know, my work with the NFL, I visited the Patriots. And I spent time with them, addressed the team, and I became a huge Patriot fan. Because I love Bella Check, I met Brady,

a Matt Patricia who is a defensive coordinator, became a good friend, and that would get me killed in New York, fasted in quitting the mob. Wow, you cannot be a Patriot fan in New York. That's for sure. How long ago was that visit? About three years ago. Oh, three or four years ago.

Yeah, correct. I had a Brady every day. I blew my heart went a tuna one to To the Patriots the tuna with the Patriots never sell ourselves. Yeah, the big tuna. Yeah And I got to tell you Brady he sat in the front row and he asked some very intelligent questions. He was I Just got a lot of respect for him only on the field and were you a Yankees guy? Metz guy die hard Yankee fan.. Okay. What's the scene in uh... Speaking of

Congratulations to Derek Sanderson, Gita. Number two. Derek. Derek. Gita. Yeah. Go into the Hall of Fame. You know who showed up to his uh...to his uh... uh... ceremony? All those girlfriends. Michael Jordan. Oh yeah. Jordan. Jordan and Patrick, you and showed up. I can't imagine like Jordan shows up.

You're not even in his game. He shows up to your ceremony. Recently divorced and like Adam said, where Jeter goes, you know, party treats follow. What was the scene in Bronx Tale where Danero says, that's a mechanical. Mickey Mantle doesn't pay your bills.

Mickey Mantle, that was a car. That was a Danero, that was Chaz Pomendale. That was Chaz Pomendale. That was Chaz Pomendale. I was just saying it to him. What do you cry? The Bill Maserowski. Man Mickey Mantle Cry.

Yeah. Mickey Mantle Cry? That car today. You can't pay the billsasky main Mickey Mantle cry. Yeah, I'm Mickey Mantle cry. Yeah that card today I can't pay the bills that's what you many card today Graded PSA tennis word 20 million dollar 20 million dollars Three of them left in the world bro when you tell me these stories. It's amazing I used to put baseball cards in the spokes of my of my Spike like not Mickey Mantle though. No, nobody puts Mickey of the corn. Mickey Man of the corn is a wrong game card I love man. He was my idol. He made me a Yankee more than the module as an Italian really. Yeah, I was younger with the module

But man was my you know was my guy why though? What what what what kind of a player was it like how did he win the fans over? He just you know everything about him. I i mean it was a five-two player you could do everything right if that guy was healthy if he didn't have the knee problem at all you know the elements that he had if you saw his routine in getting ready for a game you wouldn't believe it but i i guess what happened i was at Yankees stadium one time the old stadium and manel i hit two home runs they were playing Detroit he had two home runs that were playing Detroit. He had two home runs

and he made two catches in center field that I can, if I close my eyes, I can see it. Both of them were over the head like this right up against the wall. Just kept running straight for the wall and made that catch. I don't know how he did it. He would, he never looked back. Never looked back. You were at that game. I was at the game. Wow. So you watch, man, you watch, man, a play. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My, so you watch man. You watch Manor play. Oh, yeah Yeah, my dad's People to see many times now you were Brooklyn guy and you like the Yankees you want a dodger guy? No, no, no You know why? Because whenever when they left Brooklyn all I ever heard was those effing dodgers

You don't leave Brooklyn. Yeah, everybody turned on him. It's my grandmother prayed for Gil Hodges every day for us It was it was a good guy. It was a good manager for the match. Yeah, Michael, who's your top five all time baseball? I mean, I know this is off topic, but you said mantle. So what do you love, what do you love, I love to meet you? I love to meet you. I love to meet you.

I love to meet you. I love to meet you. I love to meet you. I love to meet you. Did you watch me? I've seen Mage play. You've seen Mage play. Well, we talked about this.

I know we did. I'm curious to know what he's gonna say. Well, one of the things about Mace that a lot of people don't know, so some of the old timers that I used to talk about for 50. 660 home runs, they're like, it doesn't even do them justice. He played in the pole grounds, it was 450 to dead center. And then he went out to San Francisco where he had to deal with Gail Force winds blowing him

from left field, it's all fair. Yeah, so he was, she was Mace. So you got mantle, you got maze, you got. It's all fair. Yeah. He was, she was amazing. So you got mantle, you got maize, you got Jeter. I love Jeter. I mean, how can you know? I love Jeter. Jeter was the player of the moment. Whenever you needed something, he was there.

Mr. November. Yeah, he was. He was. He was arounds out your top five. Oh gosh, that's hard. I mean, for me, they were all Yankees because I'm a diehard Yankee player. But I can recite the whole Yankee team, scouring can recite the whole you know Yankee team, you know scouring

I don't want to go into it because it makes me sad, but I miss them But because I'm so disappointed in that and now God the way they're playing Yeah, George is probably rolling over in his grave. They've got no heart. Do you ever meet Steinbrinner? I met Steinbrinner twice With what was that? Yeah, I loved the guy the guy love them i mean he didn't take any nonsense was the off camera like how he is on the great great guy off camera okay is he like a trump personality yes big hearted guy you described him right just like trump big hearted guy but nothing intimidated him he didn't care how great a play you were he wanted to get the most that in them and he motivated them in any way that he thought.

And it was very effective. Who's the skipper? He fired two or three times on higher than Mark. Billio Mark. Billio Mark. Billio Mark. And then Yogi tried to do the same thing with Yogi and Yogi said he'd never go back.

Now Yogi Barra, five foot eight, 10 world series, one of the greatest catchers of all time. I mean, how could you not look? One of the greatest wordsmiths of all time. Comedian. Yeah, nobody goes there anymore, it's too busy. Wait, 10 World Series championships? Or 10 World Series.

Jokey's got 10. Jokey's got 10. Jokey's got 10. Jokey's got 10. Jokey's got 10. Humility, right? Humility to move to the outfield because Elston Howard was coming up as a catcher. 5'8".

That's a time when the Yankees were absolutely beloved. They were amazing. Like the whole country loved them. Now, it's very polar, I know. Nobody loved the Yankees. You loved them and hated them. I wish for one or two, you know. You loved them and hated them.

But the late 90s were a housey and time also, man. Like the Yankees Red Sox rivalry was just must watch TV. I cannot tell you the last time I had my calendar marked to watch a baseball game. I don't love baseball, but I can't tell you the last time I had my calendar mark to watch a baseball game. I love baseball, but I can't tell you the last time I was a last time. What team got you interested? The Braves? Is it a player? Was it McGuire Sosa era? Was there? 98. No, you know, I look I love the game when I was a kid the Mets were like Unreal like the the late 80s Mets were like they were rock stars and then

86 you got to remember Kengrippy Jr The crossover appeal of Kengrippy Jr I mean imagine kids today wanting to go buy sneakers because of a baseball player like nobody even knows who Mike Trout is you had to have the griffies you had to have the sneakers the kid you had to have the swing man like you know It's hard enough these guys are some pleats now. I mean, know you had to have kangaroo junior baseball on super Nintendo that game was unreal You know you were a big one Gonzalez guy die hard die hard Texas Rangers fan. I was a die hard tech He was six two and a half two 18. I had similar Physique similar swing and I just loved his game

I got a plate with one gone and spring training and I just loved his game. I got it. I played with Wong-Gon and Spring Training, and I've never seen anybody hit in bad events and never seen anybody. Did he make you a Rangers fan? Oh, diehard. That's your real. Yeah, from 91, 92. Oh yeah, when he came in,

because So-Sah was a rookie when, 1988, 89. He was a rookie in 1990. He came, I don't know what it was, second or third year he had 28 home runs. I think So-Sah got drafted by the white socks And then he got traded to the cups and Gonzalez came in and I started following Franco who you'll Franco was also Kevin Brown. Yeah, I have a very controversial Statement here on this there we go steroids are crazy. They were great for baseball

They really were they I don't know who was hurt by it. I don't know who these guys were throwing a hundred miles an hour and they were hitting the ball seven thousand feet. It was it was an exciting game. They were running fast. It was hard ball. They used to say hard ball is back. One of the greatest commercials ever made is Tom Glavin and and Greg Maddox looking at Michelle Fy fiverr walks past them to get mark McGuire's autographed chick's take the long ball and instead of just puppet and they're the

uh... the long it was just a great time for sports so some acquire hugging and out but they got those little dinosaur arms because they're so big trying to hug each other it was it was a great spec it was emotional when McGuire hit the home run he picked up up his son, he comes down, the place is going crazy. The home run almost didn't go by the way.

Yeah. The seven yet. It was just a line drive to the left. And none of those guys making into the Hall of Fame because, but Bud Seelix in there, catching all that paper from all those years. Bud Seelix, he ruined the game with the strike. He ruined the game and then he gets to go into the Hall of Fame because these guys brought it all the way back man I think what you're saying is let's make steroids great again

that we try to say any kids that are watching this don't do it but what I'm saying is that the guys that did do it it was a pretty fun product to watch there's nobody that can tell me that they watch late 90s early 2000s they said all the games better you know though you know the whole thing when they say like hey fight the steroids that also wouldn't the store limp you at also when you know be a bodybuild though I fight the steroids you can do all the steroids in the world there's no way you can hit a 95 mile fast ball every bond I was gonna say where's the controversy nobody is yet proven that the steroids made you hit more home runs I mean really you can't say that for a fact

yeah and I mean steroids helped you get stronger and helped you you know but in the picture made you hit more home runs i mean really you can't say that for a fact you and i'm not sure if there are each helped you get stronger and helped you you know but in the picture is a picture that was the other thing so it was like the pictures are doing pushback a little bit on the when gerry sheffield hit a home run on a checks wing that's what you know something was up gerry just goes baby like wait yeah what the hell just i remember that or not?

Do you remember, I got one even worse, Glenn Allen Hill breaking his bat and then slamming the bat down in Chicago and the ball carries, carries, carries. Glenn Allen Hill was a, and that's not to say either of these guys were. Yeah. Doing anything.

Anyway, just like, why is every picture now pitching 99, 100 miles an hour? Yeah, no, it's not steroids. I think it's more you can get away more with HRT today Growth hormone than you can with steroids. It's easier to get away with growth hormone today Yes, there's some you know people the conspiracies out there about LeBron what he's on how he takes care of his body It's not creating doing that. You know, it's not the, you know, I just was doing that. There's something that's going on there that maybe we don't know about.

But it is what it is. I mean, listen, I don't mind Lebron staying healthy to play 20 plus years. I think it's better for sports. Yeah. I'd much rather get him 20 years and 12 years. So if you figure out a way to keep the youth juice going where you can like you, your seven going. By the way, yesterday we're going where you can like you, your seven going. By the way, yesterday we're having dinner.

I'm sitting there. I order, uh, what did I order? Bison. Okay. No, no, no. I order bison. You ordered the, the, the, the parmesan. And also real quick, one of the most baller things I've ever seen in my life.

This is the first time in my life. I've ever sat down at a table and the food was waiting for us. That's a Carolina moment. That's not the Carolina. The appetizer was waiting. And then Michael, his food shows up. And his wife says, watch him finish that and finish half my plate. No joke, quietly, he's talking to everybody.

This massive bone, I don't know what it was, right? Try Sarah. He finishes that, then it finishes and he's... And then sweets comes, yeah, I guess I'll try a little bit of this. And then that's gone. And then the next thing, you know, dessert, anyway, so.

Well, he said something to me in the middle of dinner, he goes, yeah, I probably, I eat a lot. I could probably eat more than Gerard. That's, I thought it was a toe to toe with him with it. I thought it'd be a doubt. And as well, sit down. You heard that? Michael Fritz is going to go toe to toe.

A Gerard finished a dessert, took it home on the way home. He finished it and then he ran two miles this morning on the beach. Yeah, the bus boys cleaning up the place. Yeah. The no. It was talking to me. I was talking to you, much pack goes, keep eating your sweets. And can we get this guy a mouthful of something?

So, so we got something we're going to reveal today for the first time. We're going to show some footage today from Rudy Giuliani, from mafia states of America, on what was said about Mario Cuomo, and you reached out to the Cuomo camp to see if Andrew Cuomo had anything to say about that. Multiple times. They did not want to respond.

It turns out he had some other things to deal with. Extra curricular activities. But we won't go there. So Michael, first of all, why don't we go and talk about the sit down with you and Sammy. Okay? We talked about this for a while. It was gonna happen, it wasn't gonna happen.

Mike, Sammy didn't want to do it. You didn't want to do it. And then you guys spoke and it's like, let's see if we can do it. And then we had a few calls together. What got you to point to finally want to do this? I'm sure millions of people have been asking about when is this going to happen, but what made you say, you know what, let's do this sit down.

You know, first of all, a lot of people wanted it, it seemed, you know, I would get it, for some reason it was even before the thought was even, you know, moving around to sit with him, people are saying, you know, what you're feeling about Sammy? Do you ever gonna sit down with him? We see the real deal and what do you think about the murder? I mean, I got so many Sammy questions. So, you know, I was just, I was sitting with my wife and I said, you know, maybe I'll talk to Sammy and we'll see if we can put this together.

That's really how it happened. And then when we did it, you guys, you brought your camp, you brought his camp. You guys were in two different properties. We had you on this side. We had semi on this side. And the whole thing starts. How'd you think it went?

I mean, first of all, we have how many hours of footage? We have including the drone footage. We've got 26 hours. 26 hours of footage. Of which, let's be honest, 70% of the same. I was just saying 24 hours for Sammy talking. But how did you think it went? You know, look, I'm glad it happened. Let's be honest 70% of Sam. I was just saying 24 hours or Sammy talking But but how did you think it went? You know, I mean look I'm glad it happened You know, you know there's so much nonsense going on in the internet right now

I mean guys are just coming out of the woodwork, you know a lot of them I never even heard of before but Look, it was a Sam and I were really a part of that life on the level that we were on he was the underboss i was a couple at that time and even though things you know sami did what he did i did what i did this still a certain amount of respect there it's just you just feel it inside you know even though we both are out of the life he disagrees on that for some reason you still thinks he's cause on our stress and

you want to walk down the streets of Brooklyn with me let's's see how it goes in our street. But, but, why, what would happen if you walked down the streets of Brooklyn? Well, I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you.

I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave that up to you. I'll leave him, there's a certain amount of respect that I feel.

And I think he felt the same for me. So that came out. And these sit downs, it's amazing, Patrick. You can be away from the life for me now, 20-some odd years. But sometimes I'll get off a plane in New York, and the feeling comes right back. It's like I never left. And when I sat down with Sammy, I almost felt the same way.

We were at a sit down and there's a level of respect that you have one another, regardless of what either one of us did. And I think it came out there and I mean, he got a little testy. We both got a little testy at some point and I had to remind him, he's not the underbloss anymore, you know, just calm down and he said some things to me and we both said some things you know at different times about each other that weren't you know very nice but

I think all in all it went pretty well yeah I'm I showed obviously there's a lot of different sections to the interview but there was a part when I showed a clip with you and Mike Tyson where I asked Samia I said, Sammy, I want to show you video with what Michael said about you with on Mike Tyson, just to see what reaction would be. And it was a clip of you saying Sammy had what was it? Napoleon syndrome.

Napoleon, Napoleon is best at Napoleon. Napoleon is worst day. Yeah, we're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation.

We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation.

We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding a conversation. We're holding about Sammy, he got to be honest. It was not good. You know, from especially guys like my father who would never say a word about anybody, he rather die, you know, 100 deaths and say a word about anybody. So, to guys like my father, Sammy

was a bad guy, you know. That's right. Why? Why? Because what he did with John. I mean, you know, look, testified against God, he testified against a whole bunch of guys. So the word on the street with respect to that was no good with Sammy, and especially from my dad. And he didn't know Sammy, you know, he never met him, but so he didn't have a personal relationship with him anyway. But what he did, you know, on the street was no good. So God, he looked, God, he was not an easy guy to get along with. He

was a narcissistic type of guy. I got along with him when I had to. I had a couple of disputes with him, but he was a stand up guy at the end of the day. I mean, he went through jail. He didn't talk about anybody and that was it. And on the street, that matters. That matters. So that's why I made that comment. You know, it's strictly pertain to that. But look, I got to know Sammy now. It's a different story. And he had his reasons for doing that. I'm not going to judge it anymore. And, you know, he's trying to turn his life around. I see how he is with his family. He's great. So, you know, whom I to judge. You know, look, we're all on the street. We all did the things that we did. Maybe some guy did a little bit more than another guy, but we're all guilty of that.

And I've come to that conclusion and realization. So I don't want to talk about anybody. Sammy and I are different. We have a different way of looking at all of this. And I think it came out in the city. Oh yeah. Yeah. Michael, prior to the sit down that you did with Patrick and Gerard and obviously with Sammy

How many times had you met Sammy in person and how many times have you met Gadi in person prior to the sit down? I met gotty several more times in Sammy, you know back in the day We met Sammy one time that's it. That was it. So this was your second time meeting Sammy in your entire life Sammy was Sammy Straight up feared like he would sit there. Was he a dialogue guy? Was he a guy that would just sit there focus on you and watch every move and extremely paranoid skeptical? What was Sammy known for back in the days?

Not today. You know, he's got a sense of humor. He's very charming. Yeah, absolutely great. Great storyteller. Very. He's engaging to bear out. There's no doubt about it. I mean, I enjoyed the time we spent it. We spent several hours together. I went out to ours. I want to see him. We spent several hours together. You know, look, he had a reputation on the street, no doubt about

it. And we heard things about him. Again, it it was my personal involvement with him but uh... i don't want to get it all of that now because we do get into it when we sit down i think that's fair so let's talk about the you brought up your dot that's sunny uh... uh... we you and i met with them multiple times we went to new york and we're trying to do something with them and one time we had to hold crew there, we were at the, the not hospital. I don't know what you would call that. It was the Veterans Hospital.

Veterans Hospital we were at and talking to him. And so I'm driving him in the car and I'm going to this Italian restaurant. I don't know if you remember the, what the name of the Italian restaurant was. Yeah, so we go to this Italian restaurant. The lady's really nice to owns the shop. She's taking care of us, being good to us.

And every time I ask your data question, hey, Sonny, what was a like? What was a lucky like? Fantastic guy. He's a great guy, great family guy. Sonny, lucky's got a history. Great guy was always respectful. I'm a myyer, they said he was a billionaire.

What do you think, was he that kind of a guy? He had money, I have no idea but great guy Phenomenal guy, so I say how about Ben Siegel? I was Ben another great guy So I said Sammy so all the movies are a sunny all the movies are lying These are great people that I dealt dealt with that's it sunny Why don't we do the interview? So you tell the world who you were rather than the world telling everybody who you were. I don't wanna do that.

Why don't you wanna do that? So one time I went there, you weren't there, your sister was there. They were upset, she was upset. She was like, I think I like, two or three meetings, Maria was there, Maria pulls up, his dad looks at Maria's like, who are you?

Maria says, and by the way, at 101 when we first met him, presence like a man you've never... 100 and one, he died at 103, just so I know that. That's why he looks so good at 70. So he's gonna go to 100 easy. Adam, his presence? Unreal at 101, so he goes like this to Mario.

Who are you? Mario says, I'm just, I'm here with Patrick says you were at One years old he says get Mario study friends a so Mario's like no, no, I'm not a rat. I'm not a rat He says you sure he says yeah, he says you know 95% of men out there are rats So you're gonna rat on this guy. He's telling this to Mario rat on you. Yeah, so it's a point first Mean at this point getting very uncomfortable Mario is getting uncomfortable and Mario's already changed his pants and then Mario's like no not so sunny he's a great guy he says okay Linda Linda come fix my hair come here Linda grab the

comb so the nurse comes and she starts fixing it so why are you doing it that we go the other way you know how I like it you can tell the man's presence Come here, Linda, grab the coat. So the nurse comes and she starts fixing it. So why are you doing it that way? Go the other way. You know how I like it. You could tell the man's presence on how sunny it was. You know, I have to be honest with you. I knew I was fortunate to meet a lot of guys at that time, you know, from Chin to Fatoni to Castelano and Goddewal.

It was nobody like my dad. I mean, and I'm not, you know, I'm trying to be as objective as I possibly can. There was really nobody like him. What was your dad like when he was, you know, doing his thing? You know, back in the day he had, and that's why he became such a major target. I mean, with nobody really understands, I mean, if you're around that time, you knew. My dad was the John Gotti of his day before they had, you know, social media, you know,

this kind of stuff. He was the John got it. He became such a target of law enforcement. I mean, look, he's indicted four times in the 60s, media like you wouldn't believe, front page all the time, and he was the guy, and it was his presence. He just had a presence about him back then. He walked into a room. You knew he was there.

That was it. All the focus went on him. You go to the Copa... I mean, I was with my dad. I'll never forget. We were in the Copa Cabana. I forget who he was playing. I think it was Jimmy Roselli.

Yeah, it was Jimmy Roselli. And Joe Colombo came in at that time. And my father had to tell the waiters to take care of Joe Colombo because everybody was catering to my father. And that's what we do. And that's what we do. And that's what we do. And that's what we do.

And I saw him do that a couple of times where all the attention always went to him and somebody else came in the room and said, hey, take care of that guy. You know who he is, you know, be respectful. He just commanded that kind of presence. If you could summarize your father in three major words, is there any words that come

to mind? You know, charismatic, powerful, you know, those two words, you know, and loving. I mean, as a father, he was terrific. Never missed a baseball game of mine. Wanted me to go to college, you know, just a good husband at that time to my mom. I mean, he was just in the house. He was great. I love born in 17. he was just in the house, he was great. I loved born in what year?

19, what? He was born in 17. 19, 17. It was born in Naples. My dad was born in, my grandfather came here, and yeah, my grandfather came here several years earlier, but he would go back by boat every year to Naples. Yeah, my father was born on a boat trip.

He was one of 19 kids, by the way. One of 19 kids. No Facebook, no YouTube, no. Yeah, nothing else of 19. 19-kitch. No Facebook. No YouTube. Yeah, nothing else to do. Yeah, nothing else to do. You're saying there was no Facebook in 19-kitch? That was one of the crazy parts about the interview, frankly, man, was watching two men actually sit there,

have a conversation, not look at their phone for 16 straight-out. Yeah, and that's the thing, after being with my dad, and he taught me a lot, he taught me how to navigate that life. I was never in awe of anybody else. I respected them, no doubt, but I never, you know, Goddy to me was, all right, you know,

he tries to be, have that big presence. My father didn't have to try. He just was who he was, that was it. Big difference. Oh yeah. There was nobody you were in awe of, like, oh damn, he's here nothing no no let me ask you the in in some of the movies and some of the shows that it's been so popularized in pop culture

is they is there a character that you see and you're like I think they took that from from my dad I think that guy is is is kind of playing the sunny francis for no but I'll tell you this i think the greatest performance of an actor in one of those movies was armande saute and the godly movie in nineteen ninety six he was from and to me i watch that movie hundred times guy can you look on the saute good luck spell on the guys i mean maybe one the best looking guys in hollywood he was in mombo kings with on ten year wonder. He crushed it The guys are beast of a guy and his voice judge dread. He's got a voice. You cannot teach that voice. Yeah

Yeah, he's oh, yeah, start how old is he now? He in that movie no put Armando assante not the Santé right he's putting on the Santa and the and put gotty put gotty guys from nowhere I don't know a part of the images go images to see how he is that Travolta yeah that more of a lot like got it was probably

one of the worst movies I've seen in my life two hours later I felt like I want to refund my two hours and Travololt is a great after he just didn't get got it and he didn't get it but I picture it by your friend is a great guy go middle middle right all the way to the right really one down one down yeah that's all right look at this good look at you know that they by the way this this guy is... Sexy Gadi Ula. Ula Lama. He's a...

Well, he kills every role that he's in, but he just killed that role in Dali. I mean, he played Gadi better than Gadi. To pick up Gerard's question, who else comes to mind other than Armena Sante? I thought, you know, next, I thought Puccino in Doni Brasco, because I knew, I knew Lefty. He was to... I thought that was his Donnie Brasco, because I knew I knew lefty. He was through, I thought that was his best role.

Really? Yes, that and obviously, gosh, we played the Cuban drug dealer. Oh, Scarface? Scarface, I mean, he was great at it. But Donnie Brasco, he was through. I think that guy Pacino is going to do something good in Hollywood. Yeah, I think something's going to come. I think it was Johnny to do something good in hollywood and something's gonna come to the i think it was johnny depth special

let let me let me go back to couple stories you know with with uh... your father uh... how how much credit i know you told you you and i have spoken about this before how much credibility is there behind the story of your dad with merlamon row that that's out there a lot of people have talked about that before but how much of credibility is there with the story of him and Jackie? He said he'd party with Jackie and Florida.

Jackie, Jackie Kennedy. Jackie Kennedy. Jackie Kennedy. He and Jackie apparently used to hang out together. You know, I will tell you this. My dad sometimes embellished things a little bit. But he never straight out lied to me. So he might have made it a little bit better than it really was, maybe.

But when he told me something, I believed it. The whole Marilyn Monroe story. When he finally told me that, was after my mom died. Because I said to him, I said, Dad, why did Bobby Kennedy come after you in such a way? What happened? He said to me, Mike, now that your mother has passed, I would never be disrespectful to her. I can tell you. He said, he had an affair with marlin Monroe and then

this might have been a little bit of bellish many said marlin Monroe is in bed with bobby kennedy and she started yelling my name ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Bobby got on the phone with Hoover and said, get francey, it's no matter what you got to do. Oh man. And that's when all the trouble started. All you had to do was run for another year until he would have been all right. And I was like, but I mean, I do know he was with her because I said, Dad, he said, no, I'm like straight, straight school. What were your thoughts on, you know, JFK, Bobby Kennedy,

even MLK, because that's when you were a kid and you're in your teens, what was that like? And that's all right. Yeah, I was doing some house cleaning. Bobby Kennedy, I had to dislike because my dad always said, I wish him that went after him and put him on all this trouble. Because remember, Hoover, up until that time,

never would even admit that the mafia existed. And the reason for that is because one of the reasons, Frank Castello was involved with the store club, who were used to going there quite a bit, and they had a lot of dirt on him. And we do cover this in mafia states. They had a lot of dirt on him and he would never even admit to it until the lottery came around. Then he had to admit to it, but but he never went after the mob.

Bobby Kennedy gloves off he went after. Well, you guys, if it's all right, if I say you and Sammy both talked about the Moms involvement in the JFK assassination as well in this coming. And you said that you too had never spoken, you had never talked about it before and you cooperated each other's story. And it was almost the exact same story. I heard it all my life. I mean, why would people lie to me about it, you know, from the right people.

And what I believe is the classified documents about the Kennedy killing will never be revealed because the government will never want the public to know that the mafia got to a sitting president that's my belief I don't think they'll ever be on classified Trump tried to we was going to and then they put a stop to it well Biden just is going apparently gonna declassify the 9-11 report as well. So you have to Adam's point. You have Marilyn Monroe dying in very, very interesting circumstances. Do you believe her dose? Yes, but Dr. Gourdose apparently after her phone hauled at a White House.

So basically the, well, it's pretty well known that her and Jack can't and then Jackson press passed her off on her But on his brother Bob me because she called one night and Jackie answered the phone and it was like a whole thing Imagine that you're the president of the United States and you still got a landline. They were no cell phones back then man And you know Marilyn Monroe's calling the White House has the White House line and Mrs Mrs. First Lady and so on. So growing up I had a poster of Pamela Anderson on my wall. It was a 16 year old kid, Pamela Anderson.

Was Marilyn Monroe like that girl for you? No, I mean, she died in the 60s. I was still a kid. But we'll get just to get back on it. So just real quick. Do you think the Cannities had Marilyn Monroe kill you know rumors all the time But I never heard anything from any of my associates at the time that that was true And do you think the mob had anything to do with Bobby as well as Jack? I never heard that either really no

Only Jack really so so what do you think about Sarah on Sarah? You know that's all over the news and coming out? Yeah, they're gonna let them out. You know, listen, you know, from a guy that's done time and look, I've either been in prison or visiting prison my entire life. This guy did a lot of time. If he's rehabilitated and they believe he has, let him out. But those are the things that don't like that. Don't know. The murderer of Bobby Kennedy and Sairhahn was just out of jail. And also for people that don't know the murderer of Bobby Kennedy and Sir Hunts or Han was just a lot of Jeff Also for people that don't know Bobby Kennedy was a shoe in the be the president

Course absolute shoe the level of momentum he had was was Unleashable. Yeah, and maybe even more qualified than his brother. Oh definitely. Yeah. Yeah A lot of people think his brother was the real brains behind the operation But Jack just had that charisma and Bobby was what the attorney general the time. Yeah, yep Well But Jack just had that charisma and Bobby was what the attorney general the time. Yeah, yep Well, I never heard about Bobby Bobby coming down on on the mafia according to Rudy When Colombo did the Anti-Etaian Italian anti-Defamation League that's that was the Italian American Civil Rights League That was when the entire FBI apparently was like all right enough of this we got to go get these guys

Well, I was one of the first ones called to go on that line and that that thing started just several months after my dad was went to prison was that like the black lives matter of its time was that yeah I mean we were a little bit more respectful that we didn't start writing and looting and doing all of that but you want to come he's no we got a call to go down a 16-Eye Street in 3rd Avenue and pick it the FBI building and When I got there, I mean I was a kid. I was not 20 years old when I got there They handed me a sign and the sign said my father was a victim of FBI Gestapo tactics He was framed and sentenced to 50 years in prison. That was the sign I had to carry That's not leaving a lot for interpretation. No, and that let line from, you know, I mean, 40, 50 people the first or second day, 2000s,

1000s within a show of period of time. I mean Joe Columball rallied the troops. No doubt. And everybody on the line, all the made guys on the line were very upset. They didn't want to be there. They didn't want to be there. You know, it got so bad, the FBI was so upset, they were throwing water balloons down from, you know, FBI was throwing water balloons down on us on the line.

Yeah, that's how crazy it is. Well, according to Giuliani, that was like the last straw. That was like the, okay, you guys want to do this? Okay. Yeah. And that was not a popular move within the mob circles for Joe Columbus. I mean, as you Pat, you've interviewed how many mafia people of that life.

I don't know. Anybody that I could, I have. Yeah. Wouldn't it this interest come up in your life? That obviously a kid from Iran, you weren't watching the good, you know, Godfather. No, but you did, though. Oh, did you?

I mean, Godfather in Iran was like, everybody watched the Godfather. Wow. Even in Iran. In Farsi. Okay. Oh did you mean Godfather in Iran was like everybody watched a god Wow I run in farcy. Okay. Oh in farcy. Yeah, that's yeah tell us about that. Yeah, so no We grew up watching that we grew up watching all of that and then you know Bronx tale Carlitos way Scarface you at all of them up any one of them Goodfellas casino. There's a level curiosity, you know, what's happening because everything in business and in the mob, it's very, very similar. The only difference is if you cut somebody, they don't kill you. They may terminate your contract, they may, you know, no longer do

business with you. They may do whatever they can to put you out of business, which is a form of a lawsuit, but they're not going to come and kill you, right? But everything else is very similar. Well, you heard Pat talk at the vault. I mean, about systems, about discipline, about organizational structure. I mean, literally almost nobody did it better. Culturally, safety, how the level of respect with women, certain code you follow, sisters, daughters, so that created a level of safety if you were in, right? There was a level of safety.

So if you create an inner circle in your business, in your company, those who are in it, there's a level of safety, there's a level of additional benefits that comes with that. So that model is ran by a lot of different people in business. So many similarities. And then Michael and I, there was a Bill McIntosh,

we got to give him credit. Because Bill kept saying Pat, you got to interview Michael. I'm like, Bill, I'm not doing this. He says Pat, I'm telling you interview Michael, for a year and a half, Bill from Peru would follow me, asking me to interview Michael, and I kept saying, finally we agreed. On my way to Michael's house, I was sitting with Jordan

Bell for a Manhattan Beach. I tell him, Marry, Marry, we're late to the next interview. We're supposed to be there like four, five, four, 30 or something, we shop at 6.30, and they're supposed to go to a church function. So I'm like, these guys, so Marry, hey, Michael, so sorry, they're on their way. They're on their way.

I'm dealing with LA traffic. Finally, we get to, an interview that was never supposed to happen. At that time, Michael's, you know, we're, I don't know how many subs we had at that time, 500,000, 450,000, some number like that, right? And Michael doesn't have a lot of views online. He's got 500,000 view videos, 300,000 view videos.

He's done some stuff. And then we do the interview. We post it. We don't think much of it. Next day, Michael's like, Hey Patrick, can you tell me what's going on? I said, Michael, you're on the cover of World Star. He says, what are you talking about? So the interview goes on World Star.

Pick up by World Star. Everybody starts contacting us about this interview. It takes off. Now it's got, I don't know, 12 plus a million about to cross 13 million views and And so that led to the next interview and I don't know who I think we did another part to you and I Yeah, we got well over 20 some on million. Oh, yeah, yeah We I mean listen. I mean now Michael's got stuff that he did with bus fees all over the place Michael is done wired But I don't you got everything now you got your channel that's about to cross a million subs

You guys are crushing it with your crew They guys got the then Sammy with the interview with Sammy and Sammy was Extremely difficult to get that done. He just didn't want to get on camera Sammy didn't want to get on camera. He says you think I'm gonna sit with you. I said with Diane didn't want to get on camera. He says, you think I'm gonna sit with you? I said with Diane Soyer in 1994, I'm gonna do one of these YouTube things.

But Sam, now he's gonna YouTube like the right. How you can't get it wrong. But talk about that. How, you go from the game to the end of the year. 20 to 20. You're a YouTuber. How does that happen, Michael? I don't know, honestly, it's the, you know,

sometimes I'm in bed laying down at night and I'm saying what am I doing? You know a powerful tool man. Yeah, you know you know things got real when you said if you like that There's another clip over here and I'd like the channel. Please subscribe and smash that thumbs up No, we're talking about only that I'm to almost every other day. I go on YouTube and there's somebody else Yeah, you know, it's like you know the whole genre people talking about it. Not only that, I'm almost every other day, I go on YouTube and there's somebody else. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, you know.

It's a whole genre. People are crazy about that. But it's saturating people. It's really only two people that are, you know. So of course there is a lot, but you know, when it comes down to this genre, it's two people. I know John is thinking about doing some rumor on the street is John is thinking about doing something.

So if he is doing something. Yeah, I know he is with checked mafia He's doing but I don't know what angle he's gonna take. I don't know how they he's got some people on this team that are quality people We've had a couple conversations with them in a past not today when we did the Sammy interview We had some exchange there, but it's not gonna be a camp that's gonna have a lot of people there And the Sammy's interview is not got 12 plus million views So both of them, so you got Sammy 12 plus million views, Michael 12 plus million views. He's about to cross 13. Now we have mafia states of America,

so it's not like individual. So Sammy calls Michael out, then Michael calls Sammy out. And it went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, nonstop, like Michael would say something and it's something, but what are you saying there? What's your point with that? And then Michael and Sammy would say something and something but what are you saying that what's your point with that and a Michael and Sammy would say something but Sammy I disagree with you and they so this like chess Paul Monteris is Patrick I don't know if you understand this this is never happened in a history of of of a mob this has never happened so and I got

a phone call I got I'll tell you about afterwards a very interesting phone call that you and I will talk about right after I was going to bring it up to yesterday. There was too many people around but I'll talk to you about it afterwards what happened. Very strange people have contacted me about this interview because everybody wants to know and then the trailer so now people are asking when is this coming out? You know we don't have a date yet you know we're trying to figure out when we're gonna launch it. People wanted to come out tomorrow. It drives me crazy. I'm sure I don't know a date yet. You know we're trying to figure out when we're gonna launch it people wanted to come out tomorrow It drives me crazy. Yeah I'm sure I don't know speak the Patrick. Yeah, it's big

It's bigger than than the mafia genre though. I mean this is this is a history This is an America that doesn't exist anymore. I think they're gonna watch it's a hundred years from now Yeah, they have to I mean this is a time capsule This is the what I got out of this and from the research that we're doing from the project man is that that this is the story of What I got out of this and from the research that we're doing from the project, man, is that this is the story of immigrants making their way in America. You could be, the mafia is identified

with Italian Americans, but as we got into it, you talked about Bugsie Siegel, you talked about Jewish immigrants in the beginning in New York with the ones that taught the other immigrants. We talked about this, then there was the Irish Westies and then the, but nobody took it to the level of the Italians. Did I mean, the Russians and the Chinese maybe. But, well, no, I'm gonna tell you this.

When you talk about mafia, close and oyster in this country, you gotta understand, we survived and prospered for almost a hundred years under some difficult conditions. I mean, we always had law enforcement after us, but why? Because we had structure, we had discipline, we had authority, we had discipline, we had authority, we had

respect among one another. And there was some pretty intelligent guys there. You know, I always say this, you know, you know, who made the mafia in this country, who gave us the biggest advantage, the government, because of prohibition, because that's when the money came in. That's when we started getting the money. And you don't do anything without monitoring. And you were advocates, you were advocates for the people at that point. The people didn't want prohibition. You were advocating for the public. Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. Are there any similarities to today? Prohibition was in the 20s, right? So now it's 100 years later. Are there any comparisons today to what the government is doing to manifest a certain marketplace like it's Bitcoin, the new prohibition,

like what's the actual relationship? Because I have a Russian friend who says, when the government, who we're talking about, like government overreach and tyranny and online and everything like that, he was like, it's no problem for Russians, we just go black market. They can do whatever they want.

We'll go Russian. The Russians are very smart, but you know, you don't want to get me started. I'm writing a book on coffee on a democracy. Mawfi democracy, because I am telling you that our government today is acting very Machiavellian just like the ideology that we followed on the street. And the other thing I want to say, remember, all these other groups, I mean, you got to give them credit, but you know, you take the cartels and, you know, Mexico, South America, they built around

drugs. You take drugs away, South America, they built around drugs. You take drugs away, that's it, they got nothing. But we infiltrated every sector of society from the guy on the street with the numbers business right up to the White House and everything in between. And you know this, Patrick, you control the unions in this country, you control the country. At least today.

Yeah, that's literally what the Democrats are talking about. Not really right now. Not today because they took a lot of the union power away from us, but look, you control the country. At least today. Yeah, that's literally what the Democrats are talking about. Not really right now. Not today because they took a lot of the union power away from us. But look, you control the teamsters. You got 2.5 million truck drivers. You call a strike, the country stops. Which you call a strike at the docks?

Nothing comes in and out of it. To his point, what are they just doing, Australia, to competing against these vaccine mandates? The truckers shut down the roads. They stopped on the bridges. They at all at the same mandates, the truckers shut down the roads. They stopped on the bridges. They at all at the same time they shut the country down. And within 24 hours, South Wales in Australia went from mandatory vaccinations to non-man, to what are they considered? Well, it was a- And it's legit. You call it strike, it's legit. They can't do anything

to stop you until you negotiate and you reach a point of a conclusion. But you have that kind of power. You know, in politicians, you've got these huge pension funds. You know, politicians are drawn to money. You know, that Patrick, they're drawn to money. When you control that type of, when you have that type of control, you've got a lot of authority. Who has more power in America than the NEA right now? The education association. You know, yes, it's funny. Yesterday I spoke to Captain Dennis Tager,

who is the spokesperson for the largest union for pilots in America, 15,000 pilots. It's called APA Allied Pilots Association, right? And he was talking about the difference between union today versus before. You know how Jimmy Hafa union before versus today. How different is today's union than before? Has it changed much or is it still

similar kind of influence on power? It changed a lot because the mob doesn't have the control over it as it did before. Okay. And the numbers are down in the unions. Numbers are down, I think. You know, back, you know, in my day, unions were powerful, man.

Look, I had... Can you say numbers are down you mean percentage of American who are part of you yes one out of as late as the nineteen sixties one out of every three Americans was in a union and now I got to suspect the less than ten percent it's no because it's it's uh... forty percent because almost ninety percent of all government employees are unions there's almost no private sector unions they're all public sector now that

I had control through a guy by name a Danny Cunningham we had the security union right we had we had security at 9 nuclear power plants in the country now in those nuclear power plants I know if you know at that time when a nuclear plant closed down you had to have security there for a hundred years. What a hundred years Why I was closed why that's what the government said you got to have security there for a hundred years Danny So it's a good contract to get a question for you. Why why were most of you in the mob Democrats when you were in the life in the mob, Democrats, when you were in the life, but Republican or, you know, independent,

Santa Wright, you know, whatever you wanna call it, once you guys left the life. That's kind of interesting to me. I keep talking to guys where, you know, even Leonetti, you know, even Sammy, some of these, well, Leonetti's still on the, a, a, a Democrat, but why were some of these guys Democrats when you were in the life?

What happened? What changed? Well, I think with Trump, because Trump is a New Yorker and he's got that way about him, and we're attracted to him. For me, it's about his policies, but I won't get into that. But on the street, we hated the Republicans because they were the law and order of party. The Democrats were easier to corrupt. Every politician that we knew that we corrupt it. They were all Democrats

everything unpacked that what do you mean by that? You know guys that we had on a payroll, guys that would do us favors, guys that got me licenses for my gaspids, they were all Democrats. So if you went up to a Republican say listen I need a gas license what would they say to you or did you not even approach? We didn't approach because you knew it's probably Democrats around to do it. So you had in the 80s? One is this? Yeah, 80s 70s 80s. Yeah, oh, we throw it. Dude, the the the start of the Democratic Party with Tammany Hall and with Boss Tweed. I mean, the the big the big tent idea is, you know, vote early, vote often, Chicago politics. I mean, it's pretty well documented, man.

Your your folks are not exactly the most noble creatures walking the face of the earth. It's like my dad hated Ronald Reagan. Don't let him bully you, bro. Ronald Reagan's a rat. He's a rat. He doesn't like it time. He goes after all the mob guys. Well, that's a job. You know, you're supposed to come after him. Oh, your dad said that to you about race. So your dad was a Democrat. Democrat, all the way. Interesting. And like I said, the guys that we were closest to, they were all Democrats.

So Democrats were more friendlier with the mob and they were okay would look in a way and letting you do your thing. So yes a Hoover Kennedy these about these guys were like listen you guys do as long as you do your thing and you do us favors We're gonna leave you guys alone Joe Kennedy was was a bootlegger, you know Yeah involved in prohibition. Yeah, which was close with Castello and a couple of guys that knew him well. That's how this old deal came together with the Kennedys. You know I meet Espezito. I mean it's public knowledge now who is very close to a good friend of mine, Fritsy Givenelli. And another guy I don't want to mention to me is still around. And you know Fritsy was with Chien Giganti. Me did us a lot of favors. Yeah. Mario Beogie, the same thing. These guys passed on now.

Cool, Mo. How much of this is because for a long time, the unions did represent the working man. And you guys were the working man, and Democratic Party wanted to represent the working man. And this was part of the fabric of everyday life. So it's one thing that they were corruptible, but I'm sure, just to play devil's advocate

and to unbreak Adam's heart, it's like, I'm sure like in some way there was a wink at a nod, like, how much more money do these rich Republicans need? How much more money do these robber baron Nixon Republicans need, man? So I mean, it's like, what am I going to come down on the guy? That's what, what's he doing? Running numbers? Come on, you know, so I mean, how much of it was like that? And don't get me wrong.

It wasn't that we were selective. We had to go to Democrat We didn't care if you're a democratic Republican independent or whatever It just so happens that the guys are we easiest to get to with Democrats You're saying that you don't care about the red or the blue you care about the green exactly Yeah, exactly we didn't care who it was right. I'm interested in that in the structure you talked about before because you you know You talk about the way that you guys were able to build out the way that you were able to build out infiltrate all parts of life. You guys had this corporate structure. The commission was one of the first true C-suite boards in America.

But you guys don't have, I'm assuming you don't have user manuals and there's no orientation. You're not going away on a week-end. So the eventually user manual, the eventually was a user manual and that's what they used to come after them a banana Banana book was the user manual so he gave that up to everybody so for years before that How how was the structure passed on? I was just word of mouth or I can't imagine there was a mafia oriented Congratulations on being a made man come this way and we'll teach you what you want on what's code red in the Marines I only know because of one of my favorite movies of all time I'm assuming it's a sick movie right but code red was a real thing for long time

Was it really of course it was wow, but it's not something that you talk about right? There's a lot of things you know, I don't know who I was talking to Michael that said you know the best guy He dealt with I don't know if it was a sugar man i don't know who was and one of these guys i spoke to he said uh... the best gangsters were the ones like my or lansky never wrote anything down on paper he was a even harvick i tell when they were the movie he talks about it in the

sense never write anything down on paper everything was here jack the guys that did it right they tracked like if they knew this guy owed him 10 grand or 20 grand, it wasn't written anywhere like an ex-self-spread sheet. Hey, you know, Mr. Director, it was like, hey, you know, what you did last month, where's that $10,000? What do you mean $10,000? Well, you know, I know what you did.

That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that you almost had to have a certain skew that's not a duplicatable

Exactly, I want to tell you this and and this is the gods on a truth I never wrote anything down before I went to prison I would never forget a phone number. I would never get who owed me money I never forget a name never at that level make it that many that much money never never never never forget anything At that level, we should that much money you never never never never forget anything When I went to prison and this is the truth so many guys would hit me up with deals and stories in this that I would yeah Yeah, yeah, I would let it go one in one ear one out the other when I come out of prison I couldn't remember a name of all number or anything else Wow and it's stuck and you were locked in you were in the zone locked in but back in the day

Well, you know, you know, you know, my father talked to me. My father used to tell me the telephone is a cop. That's how you look at the phone. When we were in my house in Rosalind Long Island, my dad wanted to talk to me when he was on parole. He said, come on, let's go. We did a take a walk and he would talk to me like this, like a picture on the mound. Talk to me like that.

Or we would go into the bathroom. He would turn on the faucets. We would lean our heads into the faucet and he'd be standing there flushing the toilet to make sure that nobody can hear. Wow. He ingrained that in me. I never got caught on a wire tap. I never had any of that stuff that I had to worry about because I looked.

I was not. I don't want to use the word paranoid. It was extremely care. Have has any of that stuck around till today or no? Like, you know how sometimes because I looked, I was not, I don't want to use the word paranoid, it was extremely careful. Has any of that stuck around till today or no? Like, you know how sometimes you know, like I was born in Iran, so if I hear certain alarm, like it takes me straight back to Iran,

if I hear certain noise, is it still in there? Or in truthfully, yeah. In fact, I hate talking on a phone. I still don't like it. I just, I'm not comfortable with it. If you live that life, there's some of that stuff on your phone. That's just on your cell phone, you don't, yeah. I just, I'm not comfortable with it. If you live that life, there's some of that stuff on your cell phone. You don't, yeah.

I don't like to talk on the phone. You see my, I, very few phone calls. Yes, dad is saying the phone's a cop and everybody is like, hi cop, what is the name of? Here you said serious. So, you made a comment about Mario Como. Kai, do you have that video about Mario Como? What you guys talked about as well as what Giuliani said

about Mario Como? If you have that, I wouldn't mind because when we were sitting down, go ahead. No, it's great. baseball player as well, Mario Cuomo. For people that don't know, he was a big Yankee prospect. They got one of the biggest signing bonuses of all time at one point. But by the way, he was a guy that was loved and admired by a lot of people, a lot of people from both sides based on what you read about the guy. Respect it. So I asked you guys about Mario Cuomo, comments came up. It was not necessarily intentional, just kind of came up and you guys both said maybe if you want to share it, you guys both talked about how Mario's involvement it was, you know, in the mob, it was, he was

friendly with guys on the street. So here's what Rudy said about Mario Cuomo, Kai, if you want to play it, it's a Motherway Yeah, and with Rudy we sat down for three and a half hours at his place If he could have you would have kept you there all day Oh, and if we release what what Juliani said, I don't you know Like some of the stuff that Juliani maybe that may be episode 8 9 10 that people have to watch it But some of the stuff that he says, it's gonna be, it's not gonna be good for some folks out there. So, but go ahead, play what Giuliani said about it.

When Sammy, the many names were brought up. So I asked him, I said, who was easier to bribe? Or you know, when you were a mobster, was it the Republicans, the Democrats? Who was it? They said, not even close, it was always easier to bribe and by, you know, Democrats. I said, give me names. Anybody that maybe you work with, they can talk about,

we started kind of going through a list of names. They spoke very favorably about Mario Cuomo, Governor Mario Cuomo. Yeah, I would do. Yeah, and they said very good things, but they also said, we had him in our pockets, you know, meaning in fact. So they had him in their pocket, somewhat because of his own limitations and his thinking and somewhat because of his wife. So his wife's family, and I hate to say this because she's a lovely woman. I think Matilda is just a grand lady.

But this is part of the Italian experience had mafia connections. And the governor was always afraid that if he ran, they would be exploited. And I oppose Mario in the sense of my political philosophy was a big difference in his. Certainly at that point of my life. Even though I endorsed him for governor well I'll explain why later I needed the money for the city. I always don't think I know I know and really can't quite describe in detail to you wouldn't be right the details of it and it's not nearly as serious as he thought it was. I mean, it's the kind of thing you could easily explain as had nothing to do with Matilda,

had nothing to do with Mario. And it's the kind of thing that happened back in those days when you had a conductive business and if you didn't play ball with them, there were victims, they were victims. They weren't, they easily could have been interpreted that way, that's the way I interpreted it. But he saw shadows about it.

You know how sometimes people are more embarrassed about something than they should be. You know, we thought that was the case with Mario. Or actually because he was very ethical and a very good man. Mario was. Yeah, very, very good man. Mario was. Yeah, very, very good man. And someone I respected, great.

Even though I thought some of his political ideas were outdated, that whole thing about, you know, there's two Americans, one for the rich, one for the poor. I think that ended during the depression. And I didn't think if he ran he would get elected. I thought he could be nominated, but I thought his message was to... I'm dated and I don't think he...

So I agree with him. Yeah, I definitely agree with him. He was a friend to us. I put it that way. Unlike his son. Hans. Andro, well, it's good to know though that he actually isn't, you know, abuse of our hands. He's just a tyrant.

So there's that. Who, who, who now? Andrew Cuomo, that's what he said. He didn't, he didn't abuse any of those women. He's just a tyrant. You know what his downfall really was? He's a bully. And he turned everybody against him.

Andrew. Yeah, Andrew. Andrew. He's just, he's an abusive type of guy. He wasn't well liked. He had some loyalty that he bought, you know, just people around him. But at the end of the day, when you're a bully and you mistreat people like that, the tie is going to turn.

You know, now somebody say Michael Trump is a bully, okay? You know, would you say, because the argument could go from the other side, well, Trump bullied a lot of guys as well on his way up. But you know what, the people around Trump really like him. Interesting. The poor metaphors, the Corey Lewandowski, people that were close to him, they like him. You know, you say what you want about Trump. I believe Trump really cared about America.

He cared about it. Whether it was his ego, whatever it is that he wanted to be, the best possible guy he can be in there for the country, I think that's what he wanted to be. Whatever motivated him, I don't know, but I feel he really meant something for him to do well for the country, for America that he believed in and I that's why I supported him would you have been able would you have been able to accomplish what you accomplished in the gas cam without mario quamos help yes because my the licenses I obtained were not through quam, it was somebody else. But I needed those licenses and they were tough to get and he was able to I was able to get And that's what that's what kind of separated me from a lot of the guys because I had 18 licenses

So you couldn't unless you indicted me and put me in jail. You couldn't stop my business Can I ask a quite this a little off topic, but I think it's very appropriate for this segment you being a New Yorker We just saw Rudy Giuliani little off topic, but I think it's very appropriate for this segment. You being in New Yorker, we just saw Rudy Giuliani, we talked about the Cuomo's, Pat's first day in your financial career was the day before 9-11. It's this weekend now, Saturday. So two days now. No, no, tomorrow for me it's going to be 20 years. Oh gosh, 20 years. So you being in New Yorker, we're talking about Rudy, I'm just opening it up for conversation. It's a 20 year anniversary of 9-11. We just left left Afghanistan it's all over the news

just there's no specific question but just what comes to mind when you when you you know circulate through all these stories listen because I just saw Rudy I mean I gained a lot of respect for him as mayor of New York because he brought that city back you don't know it was America's mayor. Yes sir. You don't know what New York was like prior to that. I'll tell you a story. I was out on, I forget if I was, I got busted on a parole violation and I had been out

in New York for several years. They would drive me back. I had to go in front of Judge Henderson-Marston here. So I was with the marshals in the car. We're driving back. And I said, hey, guys, what time we got to be in court? You said, we got a couple hours. I said, do me a favor.

You said, what? I said, let's drive around. I haven't seen the city in a while. I said, what do you want? I said, I want two things. I want Dunkin' Donuts because I haven't had that in years. You're a Starbucks guy. I was told not.

No, I was Dunkin' Donuts all the way. I said, and I want to drive to Manhattan. I haven't been here and When they took me down a time square. I could not believe you know the reformation Yeah, being back and yeah, the whole me. Yeah, this was right after you know Julie, Julie, I had gotten to office He was your company. Yes, my father wouldn't let my my mother bring me and my sisters to the city without Able you know that you could get off the bridge on house in street and I am not kidding and people in my age know You would have a hundred prostitutes coming up to the car right on the street coming up to the car rolling down your window a hundred of

Every single day it was smart city. It was just terrible time square You didn't want to go to the theaters. It was smart city. It was just terrible. Times Square, you didn't want to go to the theaters. It was all peep shows. Now the main peep show, now is a NYPD department there, but it was terrible. And the reformation of Times Square along what he did there, and to clean up the city. The city, you know, when Dinkins was the it was it was a party for us because anything went anything what we were doing but it was just a terrible place. The Bronx was burning in the late 70s year there. The Bronx was the worst city in the country. Terrible. What comes to your mind, Pat? What in regards to it? We were talking about 9-11 in New York, you know, 20 year financial career, everything that's happened. Oh listen, so I had the, by the way way David if you're listening to this the David you David David David David

We got to make sure that captain Tager goes out on 9-11 Okay, just make a note of that because the captain of the spokesperson of a APA that's got to go on on 9-11 Got it. Yeah, because one of the things I asked him I asked him a few different questions So this the guy that's always on MSNBC, CNBC, CNN on Fox. Pull him up, guy. He's everywhere, okay. Captain Tager is his last name.

Captain Tager, I think it's Dennis Tager. Yeah, Dennis Tager. I know. He's an absolute stud of a guy, okay. And we were having a conversation. He said, I asked him, hey, so TSA numbers are up. It's only 10% down from what it was in 2019. So people are traveling again

You know, should we feel safe travel again a lot of private jet businesses chargers taking off right now Are you worried about it says no? I want the wealthier to get wealthier because the more money to rich make my business takes off So I'm like very interesting as a union guy to say something like that and then we went and talked about a few other things And then finally I talked to him about 9-11. So so a question for you in regards to 9-11. Do you worry with what happened with Afghanistan, with the Taliban, that another 9-11 could potentially happen?

And if yes, how are we prepared for it? What is difference between today and then? I mean, obviously we know TSA, George Bush came out with TSA in November of 01, two months after night on 11th K. We didn't have TSA before. It was just kind of like you went on a flight. I don't know if you remember, it was a lot smoother. You didn't take two hours to prepare to go on a flight.

Boom, you went bust. You could also go to someone's, like if your friend was coming to town, you don't even go on a trip. Pick them up, you don't have to go through TSA. Very different. But now with somebody who's saying it's good, somebody who's saying it's bad, the reality is it's longer to get on a flight, but at the same time it's safer.

So you're going through it. It's much harder to do a romantic gesture. Yeah, sure. So I said, so how much harder is it today to conduct another 9-11? And he started talking about stats. He says, first of all, there's certain things that we have on every flight that I can tell you about.

Now you need to know on every flight there's a federal agent and he walked through it on certain investments on every single flight there's a federal agent he says on every flight there's a federal agent is what he's saying now whether that's true or not maybe it's not maybe it's my misunderstanding the way he said it is there's a federal agent on every flight and then at the same time they have a method He says but there's one thing that he was pissed off about that he wanted them to pass the bill and the APA's right now Do something to pass the bill is for every one of these planes to invest $10,000 to create another layer of protection in case Somebody decides to do something so they can have 10 minutes to be able to prevent the

Whoever is trying to take over the plane for that to not become a reality. So there's one other layer that he wants to add to it, but he says, look, I'm not going to lie to you. We are paranoid like you wouldn't believe. We still worry about if another 9-11 could happen or not. So yes, that question for me, I think in the last three weeks, it just became more the person. If there are some Vegas where you can bet on another 9-11 happening in the last three

weeks that went up. It went up. You know how all of a sudden, hey, the Lakers traded and they picked up, you know, Anthony Davis. The line just went 20 to one to three to one. Okay, so if you bet the week before your head, the line up today, another 9-11 happen, went higher. Yesterday we're having dinner and your wife says,

I'm not traveling on 9-11. I just feel we're traveling on 9-11, you know, now what? She also said, it could be the safest day of the year if you're traveling because everybody's more paranoid, but still that thought is there that this is the same way. Yeah, so you wouldn't travel on 9-11. I'm not, I'm here, I'm not going home. Would you want your wife, your kids,

your family traveling on 9-11? Not if you want peace of mind, no, I don't think that's something that it doesn't give you peace of mind traveling on 9-11, right? I don't know if I don't know if I buy that because let me explain to you everything about how the how the how the How do Afghanistan experience was handled it was so sloppy me, it sets everything else is sloppy. I had a call to you that it might see sweet executives. And we were talking about something I told a couple of our leaders. I said, I said, it's success softens people up, right? So when you win and you're like, oh my gosh, I just made a million bucks, you get comfortable, buddy.

And when you get comfortable and arrogant, you are officially exposed. And somebody can exploit you. If I'm an enemy, and I don't like America, matter of fact, if I'm an enemy, and I hate America, okay, if there's ever been an administration that is handling things in a sloppy way way that if you wanted to do some damage to America Unfortunately, unfortunately, this is the season. Yeah, unfortunately Because you're sitting there with your opponent. You're like dude. What is the matter like imagine your day in a girl And you go to girl girls house and you want to meet her dad and you see the dad It's like I'm sorry. What's your name? I'm Adam, okay, what do you do for a living?

I'm in school. Do you have a job? Yeah, I'm 18 years old. You go into school? I am. What are you majoring in? I wanna be an accountant. Why do you wanna be an accountant?

My dad's an accountant. So tell me about your mom and dad. My mom's a nurse, my dad, are they still married? They've been married 22 years. Do you have any siblings? I have a sister, okay, good. So he goes through a series of 45 questions, like, what the hell is wrong with this guy, right?

And then he says, I want you to meet my son. Then a 28-year-old son shows up. How are you, Adam? I'm John. Shakes your hand. Hey, this is my sister, it's my only sister. I just want to make sure you know that. If anything happens to my sister,

whatever you do to my sister, I'm going to do to you, just so you know that. Okay, to my sister whatever you do to my sister I'm gonna do to you just so you know that okay great So you leave right now you go to another girl's house you go in oh hey Adam Mary told me about you You want a drink you want me get you something you guys have some fun tonight grab the keys You as a boy who has one thing in mind you're saying what to slam dunk I don't need to worry about the dad with the second girl or a brother, but the first one, shit, if I do something, the dad and the brother's gonna come after me,

I'm not doing nothing with Jackie, but hey, Mary, let's go out, I don't have to worry about you. Jackie is Biden. That's America today, a nobody afraid today, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought. Yesterday, Trump was on, who's the late night guy?

Guttfield, what's a gut feel? That's a gut feel. Yeah, gut feel. And they were talking to each other. And Guttfield asked the question, and said, look, I was never a fan of you. And he says, I never supported you, gut feel. Because he said a lot about things about him.

He says, no, I understand. I said, but I think maybe eventually you started liking me and maybe even loving me. He says, I don't love you. Maybe there's you started liking me and maybe even loving me to say I don't have I don't love you. Maybe there's apparition It's got to feel talking to who yeah, so they're talking face to face and then Gutfield asked do you think it's important for us to for the enemy to fear the leader? He says I don't know about fear. I think it's about competency and respect

I don't know if the enemy is sitting there saying these guys are competent enough to handle uh... nine eleven next nine eleven so how could they concerns me a lot and we got some advice president of kinket as to even a semi heart question without breaking out into some sort of maniacal laughter cackle like she's the joker got gen saki coming out yesterday saying there's gonna be new mandates and uh... she gets asked a really simple follow-up Is this gonna have an effect on everyday American people and she looks like the Grinch furrows or brows and goes only the unvax?

Like this is what we're dealing with like it's it's like comical. It's like the villains have taken over Gotham It's it's almost like on the comic book. You know what Patrick people ask me, you know, you're a stauntry public And I'm not a stauntry public and I'm for who I believe is gonna be the bet Do the best job for the country, you know, I have to say this This is the worst Leadership in my lifetime by far. I mean not even close. That's great. You live through Carter I mean that's a big statement. These people appear to be so incompetent. They can't get out of their own way It's scary.

I really, you know, I was thinking about that. I was going to put something together. You know, in the opening line of the Gadi movie, it's brilliant where I'm on to Southeastern Java. He's talking to a guy through the glass. And he said, 20 years from now, they're going to miss cause on Ostra. 20 years from now, they're going to miss John Gadi.

It's like I want to flesh back and say, three years from now, they're going to miss the Republican party. Three years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti. It's like I wanna flesh back and say, three years from now, they're gonna miss the Republican party. Three years from now, they're gonna miss Donald Trump. Not because of, just because of the way he ran the country. That's it, you know? And it drives me crazy, Republican Democrat, you gotta put the guy in that's doing the best job for the country, that's it. It's not a question of

Per for me. It's never about personality. It's about policy. That's it. What's best for my country for my kids and my grandchildren? That's what I look at. I went to a Oyster place in Boston. We walk in Hostess shows up gives an attitude to me and Mario. I said to her, I said, you know what? I said, you're not a hostess. You may be a good person in the back, you may be good at handling accounting, you may be good at monitoring stuff on camera to see if anybody is stealing anything.

You may be somebody that can do a lot of other things. You were never meant to be a hostess. So I said, don't take this as, don't be offended by this. I had an assistant one. So guys, they must who tank. Good luck in Persian kid. The worst assistant I ever had. I love the guy till today. He knows that I talk about him. So I said, who time I got good news, I got bad news for you. He says, which one do I said, which one do you want? He says, I want the bad news. I said, you're a terrible employee. And he says, why? I said, I'm your assistant. He says, I'm telling you what you need to do for me. I said, this is pathetic. I said, you want a good news? He says, yeah, what's the good news? I said, the good news is your butterfly.

You're free. Go do whatever you want to do. I'm so glad you said this because I want to go Serve every single big wave around the world. You get that for seven eight years. Happy as kid alive. Met a girl and Chaudu's me tour when I was in San Ana. They got married. He's the happiest camper out there. What's my point here? Joe Biden's not a good number one. He could be a good number eight, a good number five. I think I'm sure 43 years of experience is gonna give a lot of insight.

Here's what happened, here's what happened. Fine, he's not a good number one. There's a very big difference between being a number five, a number eight, a number one. People learned a long time ago, you could not win a championship building around Carmillo Anthony, as great as he was.

You cannot win building around certain players. This was a topic with my friend Steve Avedian, and he would say, I would say, I think you can build a team around Russell Westbrook. He says, you have no clue what you're talking about. I said, what are you talking about? He says, you cannot build around Russell Westbrook to win a championship.

He needs to be a two or three for you to win a championship. Look at the way this guy broke it. And by the way, this argument was seven years ago. Six years ago. Who's right? He's right. So I don't know. I think we forget that the number one job isn't everyone's job.

We have to come up with a criteria on what it is to be number one. And as much as I understand, he's a nice guy. He's cool. He's this. He's that. When you're running a Country that's a as big as it is today and you got people who hate you because you've been dominating for such a long time You do not want to be a have a guy that's leading that that's a softy that isn't a bit paranoid

That doesn't have the energy that doesn't have the audacity to sit there and ask answer to tough questions You need somebody that can lead that. It's not everyone's job. There's actually one of the most famous quotes in the sopranos about that. Tony sopranos getting into Christopher and Mousante's, get it into him. And James get the late James get into. Fini was phenomenal in that role. And he basically says exactly that. He's like, you have no idea what it's like to have to make all the decisions.

And then when at the end of the day, after you made them, you've got to live with them and you and you alone. Is that something that you'll never have to do? Do you remember at the end of last dance when Michael started crying? Do you know that scene where he's like, you know what? You don't want this life.

You don't want this life then. You didn't win is what it is. And I wanted it. I wanted to do it and he says, when you take a break, you just got up and walked out. And I just felt it right now, my body just even thinking about that entire scene, right? Look, everybody wants to be a number one

until they're a number one. And they say, shit, I don't want to be a number one. Heavy, heavy the crown. It's not everyone's job. How was it? Heavy the head, the wears out. If you go to Smithsonian, they show the whole evolution of what happened to Lincoln.

I don't know if you've seen that. And from the first year, he got elected to like second year, 30 or 40, if you've never seen that as the son of his. Yeah, it's not everyone's job. He was doing a civil war. And that's a real tough time to be a president where he was going to try to find his own, until he found his general grant, he could count on any of those guys, but it's not everyone's job to be number one. Well Michael, you said something before about, you know, you don't care about whether it's

Democrat or Republican You just want the right person for the job and what you were talking about before Adam What I remember most about 9-11 is right after it happened You know I grew up in the shadow of the towers towers were beautiful But the freedom towers gorgeous don't get me wrong But there was just something about those two towers sitting at the end of the at the end of the island there And I grew up 15 miles outside the city we saw them come come down. And in the carnage in the wreckage, my uncles were in their firefighters

and both of my uncles and my grandfather, local 40, they worked on towers, they built them, and then they were part of the cleanup. Everything was gray. It's a devastating picture. You look at it, when the towers come down, there's so much ash. You actually can't tell who's black, who's white.

You can't tell what race, you're just, it's people that they look like, they just got through a 12-round fight. They're walking around like my god, what just happened? And then 10 days after to kind of put a bow on this, we started with baseball. I was at, I'm sorry, I think it was 13 days after, went to a funeral for my dad that worked in downtown,

we went to a funeral, and then we went to a mech game after against the Braves. And then this massive comeback in Piazza hit a home run, and it was like, I don't know if anybody ever sees it or goes on YouTube, watch Piazza's home run. Place from crazy. Oh, no country. You had Sammy Sosa running with the, sorry, the flag was amazing.

There was no Democrats, there was no Republicans. There's no white, no black, we're Americans. We don't have that today, though. They we kept saying never forget, man. 20 years later, we forgot. That is not only that, the Democratic party today is not what it was 20, 30 years ago. It was a legitimate party today.

You can't even call it Democrats anymore. Progressive liberal left, whatever. It's a different party. The party of John F. Kennedy and prior to that, different than what it is today. That's not what your country could do for you, ask what you could do for your country. But as the Democrats say into that, that today. You know, not just gave country could do for you, ask what you could do for your country. But the Democrats saying to that, that today?

You know, Noss just gave 10 bucks and he says, Pat, you're a war monger just because we left Afghanistan. This not mean 9-11 will happen quite the opposite. Also, 60 Israelis were arrested on 9-11, stopped the BS, okay? So, the rest of the rest of the 9-11, so the meaning, they also had some level of involvement. Noss, I will tell you this.

And we've had an awesome before when you talk about Palestine, it's Palestinian. You remember Anast, when you talked to the other Israeli and they were going back and forward the whole challenge, so we know the optics that were Anastas. Anast, this is what I will tell you. I have no desire to be in Afghanistan. We shouldn't have ever gone to first place. We understand there was a business element to what happened in Afghanistan. There was a lot of money being made in Afghanistan, a there was a business element to what happened in Afghanistan.

There was a lot of money being made in Afghanistan, a lot of nice contracts that was being made in Afghanistan. I don't know the details too, but some of the conspiracies don't sound like conspiracies. They sound like things that actually could have happened, and I give it some credence. What I care about is sequencing. I said it yesterday on Facebook,

I don't care about staying in Afghanistan. I care about sequencing. When a leader gets sloppy, when a leader gets sloppy and is not competent to know what our next 5, 10, 15 moves on leaving Afghanistan, you can give 10 different leaders and tell them, we want to leave Afghanistan, we're going to do a case study right now. You and your team go in that room, you and your team going that room, you and your team going this room. In the next two hours, I want everybody to come out with one spokesperson of each camp talk about what is the best, most optimum way to leave Afghanistan. Ready? Go to your teams. Everybody goes in their offices, two hours, everybody

comes back. Johnny has a team number one, team number two, team number three. And they say, here's what I think we need to leave afghanistan then the person that's moderating that groups as i think the best plan was given by three seven and nine let's map out to fifteen moves your number three could be catastrophic that's the mistake this isn't about a standard the mistake is sequencing and sequencing only happens

in the wrong way when the leader is casual no energy afraid and hides that's the problem What happened with Afghanistan's a hundred percent sequencing problem and that's why now we have to hear all the stories 83 billion dollars of equipment that was left behind to those guys for what? Why would military go first? Why would they not go last? So so this isn't a conversation about you know All the other meds while the matter demanding three point five trillion dollars Yeah, new and now human infrastructure. They just leave 90 billion behind the administration is asking about well

Hey, the Taliban you don't have enough women in your administration. What the hell you talking about like what are you talking about? What is that matter? Do you even think they like do you think they carry do you know how they view women and the country where I came from like How do you think these guys view women if you only knew if the if the left only knew how they treated women and the lgbtq community you would fully be on a different side if you know how they treated gays lesbians and women in the country uh... with all the smiths that's taking place i mean if you know if you know if that is all that is is deflection

you know that they're pandering to their base trying to get women on this side deflecting what's really going on there that's what they do all the time everything is a deflection you know it it's it's mind-boggling that the some of the things that you just said the chaos that was there i can't understand it. I don't know. Afghanistan now?

Yes. Can I say one thing? There's no rhyme and division. There's no rhyme and division. Obviously we've been kind of going down a path here. Let me just put some facts out there and this might be controversial, whatever. We're leaving Afghanistan. I think even the left, or I don't even like using left or right, I think even mainstream media is calling out Biden

for how sloppy this is. Certainly it could have gotten better. Different perspective. Obviously we all want to bring Americans home, have our allies be safe. Short term, it's a shit show. Long term though. Who do we really need to be focusing on

not so much the middle east anymore we need to be focusing our attention on child double the truth size and siria dude okay here we are here we are here we are here we are here we are so it's a trip side of a canston you move in the city okay i think they came home but the the big picture is we need to be focusing on china and you know our problem in our government is we can't walk in two gum at the same time

i know we've got eight 800 bases all over the world the real problem these days is not the Middle East. It's the far east so if it takes Getting ugly and messy and Afghanistan in the short term for our long term to wake up and say China's the real threat these days China's the real enemy Long term there might be some major benefits there. So that's just a different perspective. Nobody's happy of what's happening

in Afghanistan right now. But then again, for the last 20 years, nobody gave two shits about Afghanistan. We all wanted to get out of there. So like I said, on a couple of podcasts ago, it's very easy to get into awards, very ugly, and hard to get out of award. Especially when it's profitable.

You don't want to get out when $24 trillion are spent in 20 years, and 21 of that $24 trillion go to private defense contractors. And now it's going to be someone else's mess to clean up. Yes, again, an ugly exit. But now, Pakistan, China, India, Russia, this is a regional situation. We have the luxury of having two beautiful oceans oceans one that's very cold on the left side

one that's very warm on the on the on the right side to you know secure our borders whereas in the middle east and in the forest it's all intertwined and it's that this is china's problem now or india's problem or pakistan's problem thankfully hopefully long term not an american problem the problem is though you know i think it was a lot less of a problem before this chaotic exit that we had. Yeah.

And now it could be another breeding ground for terrorism. And you got to understand this and Patrick, you should bear me out. They don't hate anybody as much as they hate America. That's it. Agreed. So I think, you know, yes. And whether we're there or not there, they're still going to hate us. Yeah. And so they have more power now.

They have more leverage. Okay, we can still be, we can still take down terrorists like we've been doing for decades and decades and decades without having to build a nation. We were never gonna rebuild a democracy in Afghanistan. It was never gonna have. Let me ask this question. So whether we said we're leaving on this day or this day or just kind of like leaving the middle of the night,

Taliban's not going anywhere. You guys have both ran large companies. You guys have both been in charge of hierarchical structures, right? When you look at your competitors and you see them mishandling situations like this, does something go off inside of you? Is it like blood and a water for sharks? And you say, okay, we need to exploit this

while it's happening now. Is this something that catches your attention? When your competitors are fumbling the ball this bad, or is this something where you say, you know, what's the greater play here? Like maybe there's a greater strategy at play. Oh, for me, absolutely, especially on the street. When you see weakness in your competitor,

you strike, God is it. 100% Sunsu says when an enemy is about to make a big mistake to fall get out of their way, okay? So which means Just you don't even need to get in the way they're gonna they're gonna yeah now in sports Bella never stop an enemy from the never never Let a what he call it. They what it what is an interception called. It's called a never let a what he call it they what it what is an interception called it's called a never let it turn over go to waste like you

see how guy you got possession do something about it capitalize you screwed up right so you know the whole Atlanta Falcons against Brady the year they were supposed to win us what the hell you guys doing you just keep him 15 plays that could have gone the other you don't want to do is like they were passing up by how he was doing what is yeah so I I don't think there's a right answer I think it's all on Situational of where you're at in a situation like this I agree with you by the way not so I heard your second comment Is this bad now that you said it this way I agree with you, but going back to what you said Adam I agree with you

Because here's what we're out here with entire situation so I agree with you because here's what we're out here with entire situation. So, the number one enemy in the world for US is who? Number one in China. China. The Democratic part. Some people, well first of all, you know, Alexander said I have made two enemies. No, there's no difference between the Democratic part. Alexander said I have met the enemy.

It is I. Alexander said I have met the enemy. It is I. So America's biggest enemies themselves, but let's say that is that after us being our own worst enemy Then it's who China Taliban came out and said our biggest ally is who China something very strange happened this week by two personalities That you know when you think about Raid al-Yorjort sorrows. You think George sorrows is what he's the biggest funder of Antifa he's the biggest funder of Antifa. He's the biggest funder.

You don't think about George Soros who would say, let's be careful with China, but here's what happened this week. Very interesting. One story is a business insider story about Ray Dalio, whom I interviewed, one of my favorite interviews that I did, Hedgefon billionaire Ray Dalio says, investors shouldn't ignore investing opportunities

in China, even after the recent market turmoil, business insider. Billionaire investor Ray Dalio told ignore investing opportunities in China even after the recent market turmoil business insider billionaire investor radar to a bloomberg that opportunities in China and Singapore can't be neglected it's a part of the world that one can't neglect and not only because of the opportunities it provides but you lose the excitement if you're not there. Dalio say when asked about his family office plan in the region and so our objective is to be there both economically and investment-wise. This is Radalio. Then George Soros comes out, and it's a CNN story, he calls out Radalio.

George Soros calls out BlackRock's China Blender. The billionaire financier philanthropist thinks BlackRock has made a huge miscalculation on China. BlackRock recently started offering investment products to individual Chinese investors as the country's first entirely, forerunally owned fund management from Basaurus. Slam the move, claiming the company appears to misunderstand President Xi's China. Saurus highlighted Xi's recent crackdown on private business, which Xi sees as proof that the regime regards all Chinese companies as instruments of the one party state. He also referenced an enormous crisis brewing in China's real estate market and Xi's effort to redistribute well.

These trends he said do not auger well for foreign investors. So, also thinks that BlackRock's initiative is a threat to democracies because the money invested in China will help prop up President Xi's regime, which is repressive at home and aggressive abroad. Very confusing for soros to make a comment like that about China. Who would know better than him? Who wouldn't know better than him? Who would know better than him? But for him to say stay away from China. That's you know you mentioned something earlier really really you're droid about the inner circle having special. Yeah this to me

wreaks and I said pure speculation but this to me reeks of a guy who was promised a seat on the inner circle did everything he was told to do funded everybody he was told to fund and didn't get a seat on the inner circle that he was used that he was never going to be a part of it. You think this is a direct thing between him and Dalio or him and the current administration? I think it's somebody that tried to get in to bed with G and then found out who G really is. And this is the truth of the matter.

And this is something the whole world has to understand. That's actually not bad about who G Zing Ping is. By the way, that's actually not bad. G Zing Ping is going, he is going to take over the world or he is going to die trying. People do not pay attention to what's coming out of China. They do not pay attention when this man speaks. Jeezing Ping is a an ambitious man on a level we haven't seen in a hundred years. Your guy general Spalding talks about this and there's also been other people that you've interviewed with on the hundred year marathon. Jeezing

Ping has accelerated that progress and he is completely on a bash it in his own speeches about his plans for for the future and they do not include a world of democratic response to government he thinks government should be in control of everything he thinks there should be one world

government and it should be his government under his control. He believes in global comment. I think that's great news though. Let me tell you why it's in that's great news. Here's why it's great news. Say you and I hate each other. We sincerely hate each other. We're enemies. Whatever you're a realistic company. I'm a realist. We can't stand each other. You defend one guy. I defend this guy. That guy's a really bad guy. but you keep defending him, okay? So you go in bed with him and try to do business with him.

He royally screws you over, royally. Which is this kind of thing. Which this kind of seems like it. Then you sit there and say, frickin' pad. He's not as bad as I thought he was. Let me call pad. Then, so he indirectly got us closer, which is a good thing. So the fact that G is doing that in China and it's now getting Democrats and Republicans to

both agree on the fact that you cannot take China lightly that is a very very very that's a very good news for America. We can we can pose a lot of different things it's fine but there's one thing you do now want the left and a right to not this or not agree on and that's china is that my enemy is not my alai was that what that is the essentially true g essentially made soros defend america which soros you know his reputation the twenty years of destabilizing america you can be soros

m m is maybe one of the most hated guys in in America on many different lists because the guys got power money And he's a minute later and literally actively destabilize in the country No, and he's involved in a lot of different things that he did so so when I saw this message I'm like, what the hell is going on for Soros to say something? It's just the guy who broke the back of Britain Not everything's black and white. It was a lot of gray and and all this like Even in the Middle East. Yeah, even like to use your serious example Yeah, you have the Shiites and the Sunnis and then and then ISIS and they're fighting al-Qaeda

But al-Qaeda is not friends in the Taliban. It's al-Bata Sunni and then actually the in We're friends with these people up here and then in Kashmir they had fighting with them and it's just like You know what reminds you can't's all remember in uh... the last batman movie the Christopher Nolan with bain tom hearty plane bane and then uh... you know that the the business man thinks that he's got bane under control and he's like you get over here and bane's like i'm already here and he says i've you know he finally puts his hand on the guy's shoulder

leave all no don't leave on the control here do you feel it charge and then the guy realizes in this moment. Oh, man, I made a deal with the devil. Like, and you know, I need the turn to the guy and he says, I paid you a small fortune. And Bane looks at him and says, and this gives you power over me. Snap and that season ping. G-Jing Ping is looking at all these capitalist dummies saying, you know, I've given you, but I love that. I've given you to win years of power.

I love that. Here's why I love that. I love that a person like that reveals his ambitions publicly because now it unites two different parties. I love it because it's not on the TV. But listen, soros has influence with the left. They listen to Soros.

So when he says it, you have to know, like imagine the people are like, okay, who said it, or Riley said it, it must be right, okay, who said it, Anderson Cooper, must be right, okay, who said it, Donald Aman, he must be, Rachel Madder must be right, Taco Cross must, there is that community.

So now, okay, George Soros saidos at a china sucks that's fine i i actually think this is great now there's a part of it which you know you heard what rudy juliana says well i i supported him for the governorship because i needed money for funding that's politics right that you just heard it right what he said that so we don't know that part of what happened who got offended who got upset because at that level when you're a billionaire man, you're most of your life, you've been winning a lot of the fights.

You've been winning a lot if you're a billionaire, right? It's not like you've been losing. You've been winning a lot. You've been losing too, but you've been winning a lot. So you're not accustomed to not being right. So Soros maybe is not happy with somebody we don't know about.

Yeah. Soros is 91 years old, by the way. But he is just to put in a perspective. It's not like he's got big plans for himself. Like you said, he wants to sit, be in the inner circle with China. Those kids too, his kids. Just like himself, his 91.

No, I don't know if you, what's your point with that? No, no, just pointing out, that's how old he is. Old as shit. Yeah, but 91 years old, if, do you think a guy that gets to his age, like Kirk McCordian was doing deals at 99 years old, if do you think a guy that gets to his age a court court was doing deals at 99 years old before he died. I mean, John wouldn't die at 99 years old, that Ronald Reagan hospital in LA.

So do you think a guy like that, that you think the fires missing? You think the fires, not the right all, but the labor. Is the fire missing probably not? Are the skills still where they're at? Just a picture of just so that matters Matters is thinking 101 was talking about opening up businesses. So when that's in your head

Okay, and he made it to 104 103 Yeah, I mean, so by the way What's the story what would happen with Fauci and in Rand Paul? Can you pull up that story for us to read it? You talking about it dinner last night it came out i believe it was the intercept that fouchy apparently had uh... you lied again completely lied in which part of the congress light again yeah the last time that that he came out uh... it's it's moments like this where i do wish the mob was kind of still

involved in our government to be honest with you uh... the rent also is a new one-time document show fouchy like can you go up a little bit to see for okay you're so that's a bit of public documents reveal the extent of u.s. funny coronavirus research will show the national institute of all urgent infectious disease head antenna file to lie during his previous testimony to congress falchand has adamantly denied that the national institute of health

funded gain of function research and one paul blasted file chain of two-day-tweet saying that the n.a.i.d. director had lied again and i was right about his agency funding novel coronavirus Research at the Wuhan said Rand Paul go up a little bit because of tweets down here Rand Paul tweet Surprise surprise Fauci lied again and I was right about his agency funding novel coronavirus research at Wuhan Read this thread and the papers release can you click on that just to see what that is? Is it made a formal request to the Justice Department

to open an investigation? Let's read this. So newly released documents provide detail of US fund a research on coronavirus at the one in survival. The intercept has obtained more than 900 pages of document, detailing work of eco-health aligns at the Chinese lab. The trove of documents includes two previous, the unpublished grant proposals that were funded by the NIAIDID as well as the project updates relating to eco-align research

Which is scrutinized aimed increased interest in the material show Tornado, Cortenado, and in contracts and we're turning some of the funds to grants for entrance The materials revealed that the resulting novel lab or to a generate SARS related coronavirus also could infect mice engineered to display human receptors on cells. Interesting. So what's gonna happen now? Because yesterday somebody asked Jen Sackie, she just walked on. That's the thing, do you ask this question in the Rudy?

It was one of the best questions you would ask. You said if you know these guys are corrupt and you have the evidence, all it takes is for one of them to crack. You just need one of them to crack and the rest of them will fall. Why is it, how come, you know, you talked about Omar,

how is it that these guys, nobody talks over there and what he says is that nobody's threatening them. So the mafia never talked until we took all their stuff away, the racketeering act. You take somebody and you put them in a large conspiracy and say, hey, you may not have done all this but you're attached to the guys who did all this,

and are you gonna go away for them? Put your order. Aren't you seeing what's happening here? Trump gets impeached for a phone call that he made. Okay, that wasn't anywhere near his disastrous as the phone call that Biden made to the president of Gannestan and asked him to lie, straight out lie to the world.

And what happens? Crickets out of Pelosi straight out lie to the world. And what happens? Crickets out of Pelosi, nobody wants to say anything. This is such a corrupt system right now. It's such a double standard that we have, it's disgusting, I can't even believe it. If you and I were to do something like that, we'd do it in a hundred years. It's terrible, which is happening in this country.

Do you think politicians on both sides lie? Absolutely. Okay, so let's put that side aside, meaning, you know, the left's gonna lie, the right's gonna lie. Okay, and the left is always gonna show the one tweet on the sky was lying, and the right's gonna say this guy was lying. Okay, fine. So let's say there is Sinners on both sides and you know the saying people sin in different ways, okay? This is what I'm going with this Put that aside If a person's leading an army if a person's leading a country if a person's leading a family Okay, if a person's like hey, where were you? You know, I was with my friends

Okay, and we were watching a game. Hey, what were you doing? What is the core need a country demands from their leader? Forget about the lying part. I don't think we've had a president that hasn't lied yet. Okay, left, right, middle, doesn't matter, right? So, so number one is safety, right? Okay, great. Would you agree with that safety number one?

The country's safe. Keep the country safe. Okay, so I don't care what you're saying. What's your spew now? Because sometimes, you know, we have pride. And we're like, well, you know, no, no, no, no, no. And we're like, maybe over exaggerated. You know, I don't think anybody's going to be innocent of that, right?

Okay. Are we getting safety? What's next? Out of safety. I would say justice. Okay, so justice, fine. What is after justice? So justice is a form of safety. I would say justice. Okay, so justice, fine. What is after justice? So justice is a form of safety to me, by the way,

because justice provides me to know that a bigger guy's not gonna bully me because I know law and order is gonna protect me, right? That's something I gotta be honest with you. I've lost faith in over the last 10 years. I do not believe that we are all operating under the same set of rules. I think somebody, your political affiliation, is going to determine whether you're innocent

or guilty, not the actual committing of the crime. How can you hold one party accountable, one person accountable to something, and let the other one go with the same crime? You know, Patrick, this country is going crazy. I am a former criminal. Do you know that in San Francisco now, they are paying criminals not to shoot other people? What?

I don't have 300 bucks. 300 bucks. Yeah, but that's not new. What? What? What? What? No, this is what you just put in storage.

But it's the men's effort. It is. It's crumbling for a decade. I understand, but you know, I don't know about that. You think this doesn't spread? How that's why nancy palosi and kamaul harris are from and i and finestein yeah three of the most powerful people in our government are from san francisco that's their home i want the greatest cities in the world i know which of the mentality what i'm saying i use the biden trump thing because

how could you hold somebody so accountable for something that they did and somebody did something even more grievous and you just cricket you'll let it go. Yeah, what's going on in this country is the double standard is horrible. The Justice Department can't be politicized, man It just can't be it is it is 100% and again bring us up and I don't care who it is Hunter Biden's laptop And I don't care who it is, Hunter Biden's laptop. Dread, if you and I had information, just the stuff that we've heard, forget about what else might be on there. We would be doing 100 years, you would be in jail

with no bail, you'd be doing 100 years. And I think weeners too, and everybody forgets about that one. Well, I mean, a bunch of... But this is the president's son, who is using his father's political power to ingratiate himself and to, I mean you can and it's right out in the open has it been going on of course but this is right out in the open you have to act on stuff like this

and they're letting it go otherwise people who's letting it go and you're in your opinion what what do you think they should do and i'm not a hunter bite and fainting i just it's not like it's not in the news it's not like they can't go after them it should do something about it Obviously, Justice the Biden is not going to do anything about it. Justice the parliament. Okay We talk about we talk about January 6th and how serious that was and that there was a January January 6th commission There were hundreds of riots where people actually died billions of dollars of damage

You know, you know, they take over Portland. They take over the city of portland american city you know that things done you know the biggest insult and slap in the face i don't know if you've watched uh you know the recent thing on nine eleven the documentary with uh... kandalisa rice and It's brilliant, yeah, you gotta watch it. It'll make you... It's a one-sided or no? No, it'll make you cry. He did a brilliant job. Okay, I have to say.

Spike's like, did a billion job. It's a good filmmaker. But no, here's the thing. Of course, yeah, I'm just thinking of Spike Lee. I'm out of my mind. Yeah, yeah, no, I think like, yeah, I get it. I want to say what Michael said. We all remember the devastation of that day.

We all remember. No question. It was nothing like it ever in our lifetime. For these people, AOC and some of these people to compare what happened on January 6th, to what happened on 9-11 is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard. 3,000 lives lost, a city, the worst thing that ever happened compared, know other than Pearl Harbor and that was at least old military and for them to say that January 6th was worse than 9th I think the AOC said I mean old CEO about it got a lot of

the CEO had it taken down they're treating it worse than what he yes and Pelosi these people just say these things and not not held accountable to it it's an insult to everybody that's acting on the aisle. That's just a dumb thing. It's not dumb. It's not dumb. It's worse than dumb. You don't insult people like that. It's dark and divisive and it's offensive.

I would put all of that. And she lives in New York. Yeah, but you have to realize, again, respect the enemy has to get respect for her, knowing how to move. Nive people who are looking to find a person that they hate because of whatever reasons, right? Like, one of the guys I'm interviewing right now

that we put on the list yesterday, you know, he, again, another guy that's a communist who hates capitalism because capitalists make a lot of money and it's not fair. I'm like, I can't wait to talk to guys like this. These are the types of guys I wanna talk to. They're convincing. They get people to say this makes sense. Like AOC is very, very convincing.

She's got, you know, you have to know, I'm telling you right now, there's a 10 to 20% chance AOC is gonna be President of the United States one day. 10 to 20? You're saying lower higher oh my god i think lower higher please be lower house below okay i'm willing to bet i'm willing to

bet right now she stays alive she stays healthy i'm willing to bet she's gonna be a president she's got another forty years of that let me tell you she's doing something that Roger stone said the most important thing for somebody to be a real candidate is what relevant cn i both he's got to be a real candidate is what relevance is relevant see an eyeballs Yeah, he's got by the way like Logan Paul. That's a qualified guy that could be a president next 20 years You can hate Logan Paul all you want that guy is gonna be a candidate to run for president

One day Pete was using pink well I'd say who's the girl that you even brought up her name the girl the governor of Kristie know okay never heard of her we talk politics all day long. I've never heard of her name. She's amazing She's just never heard her name zero relevancy. So we've all heard of yeah, you know, I'd be I'm easier and easier to to be sold on Joe mansion Joe mansion doing doing I've been calling for Joe I don't know what he's gonna do. I don't know if he's gonna run. I don't think that's in his uh, uh, he should though I don't think he's gonna run. I don't think that's something that that by the way let's talk about the story that has to do with what just happened this week a regarding uh... your former boss

you know story came out with the fact that it you know uh... legendary columbal boss uh... car mine junior per seco was a top echelon fby informant court records say you know story came out you dealt with them directly you spent time with them it how much credence you give to this article the story that article was insulting it was Fabrication, I don't believe it in any way shape of form Deli knew you should be ashamed of themselves for putting that on a front page with a picture of a rat listen I knew I knew junior very well. He was no informant. He was no rat You know, I hate that, you know, Patrick

I hate the term rat because you know all the internet warriors now they throw that around like they know what they're talking about You know, and it's a disgrace to even say that about the guy and listen I mean he was my boss. He also put a contract on my life when I walked away, you know, so he he wasn't happy with that with that move but when i walked away you know so he he wasn't happy with that with that move but uh... absolute absolute nonsense i'll read it to you it says official boss of the clumb of a family on uh... who's side grex carpa the clumbocapo fp i inform and roylandly uh... the vichio scarpas fp i handler were working car mine person co

with himself since decades early in the government's employ as a member of its top echelon informant program wrote attorney David Shown who submitted a document in julyna brokland federal court filing aiming at getting his client one time acting car a columbal boss victor or the orina eighty seven which was spent a lot of time talking about him eighty seven out of prison on compassionate release periscord died in two thousand and nineteen at eighty five uh... he's served thirty two years of his hundred thirty six year probation a prison sentence following his conviction the mafia commission case

you're saying there's zero credence to him being a rat now with this saying there's great scar but who we know was informed for twenty so my years might have been trying to maybe got some information out of personal person who didn't know that uh... he was an informant, you know, a scarpe. So maybe some things coming from Persego, going through Scarpa to the government, not with Persego's knowledge. He didn't know that.

By the way, do you have the Chin Chaganti comment from what he called it? Rudy? If you're not from what Samian Michael said, because Rudy said something different about the chin, I don't know if you have it. Is this the one or it's a different one? This is the one, okay, so we talk about chin, and you know, chin's a power, all that stuff. Rudy had a different thought, I'm curious

to know what you have to say about what Rudy said. If you wanna play it, Kai. At we were going to do a big raid, and we were gonna arrest the number one and number two people in each family. They did that about two weeks before. Well, Shinjiganti, who thought he was number two in the Chinese family, but he wasn't. Everybody hated him.

They told him he was number two. It was like number eight. Shin as the guy walked around on the roads and acted like he was crazy. He was crazy. He was a borderline personality disorder in the military. He was actually, I think, officially, officially diagnosed as a parent and excuse a friend. He was. Yeah. Somebody played, he played it out. So this information comes out. When the issue comes in, tell you that you can't believe this. Shin checked himself in a hospital. He thinks we're going to arrest. It can be very disciplined. We don't arrest him. Did you end up working for him? Eventually, but not for that. We're not for that. So it displayed to the whole world. They've been lying to him.

So several years tell you, Shen, you're number two, you're number two. You're one of the effigate, Shen's prairie, you know, was in the Shen. Wow. That's how he knew he was nuts. So he made him think he was number two. But he never, he said, how come I don't go to to the commission meetings, not number two. They say, you know, chin here, too high profile. With that bad throw, but all that stuff, if they see you walking in, they'll know where I have in the meetings.

Thoughts. I have to disagree with that. Really? Yes. Kai, can you pull up a picture of this guy? Yeah. Shin is counting. Shin was number one.

Shin was number one. Absolutely. He was the real power behind the Geno B's family. Did you ever have a dealing with him? them or did how was he as an individual you know we walked out house in street together and uh... he was in his bathrobe pair must up in shave go back to slippers

bathrobe but he was as lucid and as intelligent as anybody could be you know my father was thrown out in military, being a military being paranoid schizophrenic with homicidal tendencies. Now, was my dad, maybe the homicidal tendencies, but he wasn't schizophrenic. So listen, you know, people ask me all the time, was Chin really, you know, goofy.

And listen, to play goofy for 30 years, you gotta have a little bit of craziness in you, but he was sharp as a thong. You think that was a ruse? He was put on a ruse? 100%. Really? 100%

100% ruse. They have hours and hours and hours of taps, and so he explained how that guy could get that wrong. He, I don't know where he got that information from, I don't know, and look, information from. I don't know. And look, even Fattoni. I mean, Fattoni was the boss, but he consulted with Chen all the time.

Michael, let me ask you. You said your boss put a contract out on your life. Yes. So there's a two-part question. What does that mean actually in reality? And what was the most you feared for your life in your entire years of being in the mob? Well, because I walked away from the life, I basically betrayed my oath and personal put a hit out on me. I mean, if Ed's told me that, they said, my father went along with it, you know, I

mean, I had all of that when I was in prison. That's why they locked me down. They put me in administrative detention. But let me tell you the deal. One of the horrors of that life, Adam, you make a mistake, your best friend walked you into a room, you don't walk out again. You're best friend. You're best friend or somebody close to you, obviously unsuspecting, right? You walk into a room, you don't walk out. Well Well I had that experience one night and if you want you know I can take a minute to describe it. It was all gas business stuff. A story came out I believe it was a news day I'm not positive that said that I was

getting powerful enough to break away from the clombos and stop my home family. Total nonsense it was ridiculous it was fiction. It was no semblance of reality to it. But you know how to start it? Real quick, how does something like that become news? Is there like a competitor that the sides were going to screw with Michael, let's, you know, leak some, you know, sometimes reporters just create, I mean,

I can tell you so many stories that it was just no truth to them. They just create these things, you know. I was pretty high profile, I was getting a lot of attention. And so guys, you know, on a street, you things, you know? I was pretty high profile. I was getting a lot of attention and So guys, you know on the street. Hey, you know when he's turning in this amount of money Maybe there's more, you know, it said I was making two billion dollars. That was not true and so you know Perciacos started you know questioning some of my Russian Partners and you know word was going around on the street so my dad was

out on parole and he calls me up and he said look we got to go to a meeting I go to his house we're in the driveway speaking and he says June you want to see us tonight I said okay it's what time you want me to pick you up because my dad was on parole he only traveled with me because I tried to keep him safe and he said Mike they want this a little bit differently. They want me to come in first. They want you to come in second. Long story short, I was a poet. I said, Dad, you know to talk on the street, why they're going to let them separate us. Let's go together. We were both captains at that point in time. We argued about it in a driveway. I think I

might have told you this Patrick. And I said, you know what, Dad, I don't agree with you, but I've been listening to you all my life if that's what you want to find. So I drive in, it was late at night, we had to meet you in a house in Brooklyn because it was a covert meeting, he was on parole, they want to get violated. So Jimmy Angelina, who is another captain of family, I meet him in Brooklyn, he's just getting my car, we're going to drive to where the meeting is. I get in a car, is somebody sitting in a back seat. I recognize him, but I didn't know really who he was. Jimmy don't even introduce me. I get in a car, and he's very close mouth. He's not really talking. You know, he starts talking about the Yankees. You know,

I'm a diehard Yanke. I didn't want to hear about the yankies that night. We get to the house in Brooklyn, it was late at night, and it was about a 30 yard walk from the car to the basement apartment that we had to go into. And I get out of the car, assuming Jimmy's behind me and maybe the other guy behind him. And I'll be honest, I'm getting scared. I said, this is a bad setup.

What's going on here? Now I'm thinking, everything's going through my head. I'll be honest with you. When I recount this, I can smell the fragrance. It was in August night. And I can hear the crickets chirping. That sound real this was. Yes.

And I'm walking down those steps and I'm scared. I mean, my knees just thought in the buckle. I mean it. Because when that door opens, I said, the last thing I'm gonna see, got to understand. I mean, I've been around since it's raining. You were keenly aware of it at that moment. Very aware.

Why didn't you run? You didn't, you know, people have asked me, Michael, why didn't you cut and run? And it wasn't heroic, it was robotic. You just become so much a product of that life. You say, well, this is it, this is it, you know, and that's what I honestly thought. You know, I walk in the door, obviously I'm here because if I would have went the other way, I would have worked in the door, would have been over. But so we have this whole big dang in it, questioning me about the gas business and so on and so forth. And I started getting mad.

I started getting angry because you got to stand. I'm turning in a lot of money, a lot of money. And this was my deal. I mean, I put it together. And but then I said, wait a minute, I'll be with the boss. Let me calm down. It looks like I'm gonna walk out of here. And we get in the car and I was really angry with Jimmy.

I turned to him and I was really a friend. He was a good friend. And he said, stop. Wait, don't say anything. I said, what? He said, you know, you held yourself pretty good in there tonight, Michael. This could have been a real problem. And so now I got even more mad. I said, you knew this? You're my friend. I know you're my whole life. You don't tell me anything. So he looked at a smart guy and he said if it was the other way around with you have told me I thought about it and I said no damn He said you know he says this is the life we live Michael. He said you know it as well as anybody you grew up in it and And then I walked out at a car. I don't know if I ever told you this as I'm I didn't know what to say

It's kind of speechless for a minute I go to get out of the car and he don't know if I have a told you this, as I'm, I didn't know what to say. It's kind of speechless for a minute. I go to get out of the car and he grabs my arm and he says to me, I'm going to tell you something, you're not going to want to hear this, but it's the truth, my God. I said, what? He said, your father was in there before you tonight. He didn't help you one bit. Oh, my God. He heard it.

Okay. With that in mind, well, here's what happened. Yes. I'm walking back to the car and I'm saying, what, what could my, now that's all I was focusing on. What could my dad could have done? But knowing him so well, I know what he did. Hey, my son does everything. I'm on parole. If he's stealing money, I have no, he just threw me under the bus. He didn't back me up. Why? At all. I don't know why. I'll be on it. I don't know why. I never said a word to him about this. I just kept it in. You never wrote it up, Tom. No, I never said a word. But when I was writing my first book,

I put it in the book. I had to. It was too much of an impact on my life. Because I'll tell you this, if that incident did not happen, I don't think I would have ever walked away from the life. It was my dad's betrayal in that regard. Now he denied it. That's not true, he denied it. But I knew it was true. But I said to myself, if this life can separate father and son, what do we really have here? But the point being is, after that experience,

nothing really scared me. So what I did, when I left the life, I said, okay, they're not gonna walk me into a room. I'm moving to California., okay, they're not going to walk me into a room. I'm moving to California. I said, they're not going to have to send a hit squad to come and get me. And I'm prepared. I'm not going to walk my dog at the same time every morning. I'm not going to go to the same restaurant.

I'm going to stay out of clubs. I'm going to be very disciplined. They're going to have to work hard to get me. So I never was in fear after that time. I just was careful. And talk about respect and loyalty a lot, right? But is there any trust or even friendship in this life? You know, there is. I had friends and I had, you know, I trusted in people, but you got

to understand something. When a boss gives you an order, it doesn't matter. That's it. I mean, look, I had an experience, I had a very different of mine that got killed. And I believe it got killed for the wrong reasons. And I could not save him. And they warned me. They said, if you want him, you're in trouble. And, you know, I mean, I still live with that today.

That's a horrible, horrible thing. But that's the thing. The oath comes before anything. And if you're giving an order, you got to do it or yourself or for it. Well, my God, you know, and I really apologize if this comes off as disrespectful. So forgive me. But I mean, how could you ever look at your father the same way? I mean, how could you ever, I mean, you're a father. You're, you just had your fourth child. Is there anything in the world where you wouldn't take me instead, like my God. Like why would you, what would ever cause you to? That's why sunny. The guy that

55 years, he didn't need to do 55 years. Sonny could have easily worked with anybody and you, you're not dealing with a regular guy. You're dealing with a true believer mafia, like mobster. Like that's my opinion. I think you may say part of it that with a true believer mafia like mobster. Like that's my opinion. I think you may say part of it. That's a true believer, but it sounds like a religious history. The articles written about sunny are very different than anybody else. Patrick, let me tell you about my dad. This is the truth. And listen, I love my dad. I love him. Like forget it. You know, so, but what I'm telling the truth about him, my dad's legacy in that life meant more to him

than any of you. That's what I'm saying, yeah. He just wanted to be known as the stand up guy. Now, you know, all the good things he said to you about those guys, when he talked to me, this life is full of shit, Michael. I mean, he would tell me just like that, you got to why? Oh, yeah, life is like a wheel.

It's going to turn to guy that loves you today. He's going to eat you tomorrow. We would go through, and he educated me, which was great. Good feedback, huh, with some of that. Great, great, whatever he told me was spot on. There's no doubt about it. But I had a conversation with my dad once, you know,

and I said, Dad, you know, you don't understand, you destroyed the whole family. He got very insulted. I said, my mom, 33 years without a husband, she's a basket case. My sister dies of an overdose of drugs, 27 years old. My brother, drug addict, 25 years, turns into an informant. I said, you got to claim some responsibility for this. You said, no way. I was framed. If I was in frame, none of this would happen. I said, but dad, you're in frame because you

were a doctor, a lawyer, a priest. Yeah. This is the life we live. They come in after us and you sacrificed your entire family. He got very upset. It probably got upset because he was very upset. You were close to the bulls eye. He got very upset with me. He would never accept responsibility. And that's what kind of, you know, I was always, when my mom and dad had a very chaotic

relationship. They're always back and forth, they loved each other, but it was always a lot of hostility in the house. And I would always side with my dad, always side with my dad. And then towards the end of my mom's life, I started to listen to her a little bit,

I started to see things a little differently. So when I would approach my dad with that, he would get upset with me. Michael, for those of us that have no clue about that. We're on time, I have one other topic I want to go with. So if you want to wrap this up, I got one other question I got for you. But please, if you want to wrap up. No, so you know, look, I mean, I love my dad to the end,

but we had a difference. I mean, that really impacted me, obviously, you know, that whole situation. So it was just different between us. More power to you for being, you've been married enough for how many years 37 37 years Five kids you have seven total. Yes, right? Your family is happy. They love you. You see them wanted to be around you. That's the biggest

Way to judge a father or parent if the kids still love the dad after 20 30 years their pops and months They did some right if they wanna be around them. So that props goes to you. But I'm telling you, for my experience, when I was spending those three days with your dad, those three times that we were with him, very different.

I've not met many people like him. He was a fully true believer, like a general, like a jack Nicholson from a few good men. That's like, what are you talking about? This is like, to that point of conviction. Duty, very beautiful. Very dutyful. So, not, listen, that doesn't mean other people believe that.

That doesn't mean you live that life. That just mean that's how his, a question for about two characters. I'm curious enough, you have anything to say about this. One is Johnny Russo, one is John A. Light. Both of them have been on Vite Amen. Both of them have gotten millions of views. John A. Light, you know, he's, you know,

especially right now with the interview, taking place from off the States of America. There's a lot of people making videos. They're happy, some are not happy, some are calling. You want some are calling. Michael, there's a lot, some are calling Sammi out. What, what, what, what can you say

from your experience? You guys were both in, was it Ripsit, New York, I don't know what that document is. You're in a serious city. Both of you guys were ripsidious, but you know I'm thinking about the P Patrick I never met the guy I never heard of the guy, I never knew anything about him until he came up on social media. For some reason he decided to make comments about me.

Again, I don't know anybody to knew him, I don't know anything about him. And I have always said to myself, I'm not going to make my name by knocking other people. I'm going to leave it at that. I have really nothing to say about him. How about Johnny? How about Johnny Russo? Johnny Russo, I mean, he's almost a comedy actor. I mean, this guy has done everything in the history

of the United States and beyond. I never met him either. I don't know anything about him. He says a lot of things that happened during the making of the Godfather, I was around and have ever seen him. I'm not saying he didn't show up, but I think a lot of the things that he's saying are just he's an actor. What more can I say? I mean some of the stories is just this is by the way another great storyteller of what he's

yeah I'm unfamiliar what it's like he said something about like Saddam Hussein he sat in the same chair Saddam Hussein, he sat in the same chair as Saddam Hussein. Stuff he did with the Shah. And by the way, the way he tells the story, it's so detailed, that's like, it's extremely detailed on how he tells... I told him when I sat down with him, I said, Johnny, first of all, I enjoy being around

because you're so entertaining. I said, but if 10% of the stories you're telling me is true, you'll live the ridiculous life. Is the Mafia far as gump? He said one story about Joe Colombo blowing up the gates of Paramount Studios. And that would be huge news. I never heard that happen ever.

I was around during the whole Colombo Godfather thing. I never heard any of that stuff. He spoke very highly of your props, very highly of your product, who he was, and what he had to say. I doubt my father ever met him. Okay. Yeah. Got it So let's just do this because because mafia states of America is gonna come out here soon We don't know the dates. We're gonna reveal it and who knows maybe even we end up doing a live event together with me You Sammy Chas who knows maybe Rudy at the fountain

Blue in South Florida and invite and you know tickets. I don't know, that would be an interesting live event if we did something like that. So maybe after all the episodes are live and people have seen it, then maybe we may do something live. It's not, not everyone's gonna be able to think cause that place only fits about 800,

but I can only imagine what types of people would come that and any kind of security we're gonna need for us to conduct that thing. But the first thing that we are, I wanna show you this. So this is a coffee mug That says mafia states of America and here's how it works when you have in the coffee and you put your coffee in there Or your tea. This is what happens to the mug which is pretty cool. I don't know if it's happened and yet or not Oh, yeah, she's it. Yes. Yeah, gradually the image comes out

That is cool. That is pretty cool on Mafia States of America and the longer it sits The more evident it becomes with the mug where you see literally the thumbnail of Our sit-down so this water is not that hot and put in my finger. It's not burning But so it's Sammy and I on the same. Yeah, so it's the mug comes out with you and Sammy the shame. Yeah, so it's the mug comes out with you and Sammy. It's literally. Oh, by the way, that is pretty sick. When you got to see this, I'm going to hold it here so folks can see it. So before I did this, I don't want to hold it.

When you get to the gas business, do you ever think you'd have your own merch? No, never. You're going to bring it close. So first it looked like this wow just the black coffee mug then you put the hot water the hot tea or the coffee in it next thing you know Sammy shows up Michael shows up with mafia states of america it's really really cool we only get it's cool yeah it's really cool so who came up with this idea well the guy who did it you know we've done some work with them but we uh uh set us up kai and mario

dealt with them put it together so it's pretty exciting for folks who'd like to get this coffee mug. We're going to put the link below. Kai put the link below both in the description and in the chat box where people to find it. I think at this one, we're going to sell it later on, but at this point, the first hundred are going to be able to order one. The first hundred that placed the order, you're going to get that muck shipped out to you. We don't have a big supply today. We will once we launch the whole thing but right now the first one hundred if you click on the link or do it you'll get your first limited edition maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf maf You always have an interesting take on any topic we go on. I think you're one that you can talk sports, you can talk politics, you can talk business,

you can talk mob, you can talk history. There's not many topics that we can talk to. I think the only thing we can't talk to Michael about is snowboarding, skiing, cold weather, that's the only thing you have no desire to discuss. None whatsoever. Gang, if you listen to this, if you enjoyed today's interview,

smash that subscribe button and the thumbs up button. We're going to put Michael's information below as well. If you want to go send him a message and follow him on Instagram as well as his YouTube channel. If you've not followed his YouTube channel, it's a must watch. It's a must subscribe to his channel. All that information will be below.

Michael, once again, thanks for coming on Being on a podcast. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. This was great. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. This was great. Thank you.