PBD Podcast - Peter Navarro SLAMS Fox For Trying To Destroy Tucker Carlson | PBD Podcast | Ep. 265 | Part 2

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David and Peter Navarro will discuss: Fox trying to destroy Tucker Carlson Why Trump lost in 2020 Why Trump couldn't drain the swamp Abby Grossberg saying that Tucker Carlson Made her life a living hell FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://minnect.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://valuetainment.com/academy/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

30% Think you will make it I feel I'm so sorry. It's like it takes sweet victory. I know this life is for me Why would you plan on July it? Well, we got bad day there value came in giving values Contagents world entrepreneurs. We can't no value that hey, that's how you run home You look what I become I'm the I'm the one All right, so there's people that are saying hey president, President Trump, you said you're going to, you know,

drain the swamp. We didn't drain the swamp. Okay, we voted for you draining the swamp. This is literally the conversation that happens when I talk to people. You did not drain the swamp. If he was part of swamp, why did you leave him there? Why did you keep him there? So now there's certain people that are sitting there the next concern.

I call 2023 the year of investigations. I call this in December of last year saying this is going to be a year where everybody is going to be going through investigations. The most viral moment of the debate in 2016 between President Trump and Hillary Clinton was what? Because you'd be in jail. Boom. It was a most viral moment.

And you know what a lot of people said, man, we would love for her to finally be held accountable. Nothing happened. Hey, Governor DeSantis said, I would have fired Fauci. I think he said that on the Pierce Morgan show that he did. OK. Now Anthony Fauci this week when he was being interviewed, he said, I think we need to start with

a plain game and kind of move on, right? Yeah. A person like this that gets away with all of that, what can the president do? Say president Trump does get elected. The voters may say one of the things we want you to do is we want you to investigate the origins of COVID as well as things that Anthony Fauci did,

kind of like what we got with Twitter files, we want to find that out. Can the voters get something from President Trump to get to the bottom of what happened with Fauci? Yes. And the big overarching principle here from the Taking Back Trump's American book, which was quite harsh in terms of criticizing my colleagues inside the West Wing and the administration. The old saw of personnel was policy, right?

Did Reagan, did you get the right people, you get the right policy? Well, in the Trump administration, bad personnel was not only bad policy, it was bad politics. And there were just a lot of people that stabbed him in the back that had been appointed or talked him into things that he knows now he shouldn't have done. And you talk about Hillary Clinton. The two problems we had was Jeff Sessions as AG Attorney General to DOJ and then Bill Barr. Sessions, I loved Jeff.

Wasn't the brightest bulb on the planet, but if he had been secretary of DHS, Homeland Security, he would have been there for four years and served admirably, okay? Putting them in at the Justice Department and did that shark tank, he got immediately taken out when he recused himself on the Trump Russia hoax stuff. And that left inside the career bureaucrats to deal with the issue and it never got dealt

with, right? And then Bill Barr comes along. He's a white shoe, globalist, Republican who, you know, when the boss appointed him, I just like said to myself, why? That this will end badly and it did. And Barr, for example, the worst thing Barr did that actually cost Trump the election and it did cost him the election was not prosecute swiftly the information on the hundred Biden laptop in hell. I don't if you know this, but they had bill bar had that laptop over a year before the election and they just sat on that and and and we know now that that laptop was

real that what's in it implicates by a Hunter Biden and and and in all likelihood the big guy Joe Biden in all sorts of 10% of the big guy Yeah, I mean, it's like so And the Trump Trump administration was riddled With people like that when in the West Wing the the eyes. I was had to fight on the trade issue Was first Gary Cone the the Goldman Sachs, New York Liberal Democrat, and why is he there to support Wall Street and then Cudlow who replaced him and then Steve Mnuchin and another kind of so my point is that the second time will be different.

I am convinced of that. At the end he had, but boss had Johnny McIntee running personnel and I can think of nobody better than Johnny McIntee to make sure that the people who go in are Trump people and that they know What to do and the beauty of a second term is that the learning curve. That's why DeSantis what to do and the weird of a second term is that the learning curve that's why the santa's would not be a good good immediate choice there's a big learning curve so we have to learn from

twenty twenty okay based on your book taking back trumps america why we lost the white house and how we will he will win it back i'm going to read a couple things from your book and i'm going to get your reaction to so during the home stretch of the twenty twenty election president trump was rocked by one the worst Presidential campaigns in modern history. You're saying this. That's your claim They ran effectively one of the worst presidential campaigns in modern history with star contrast to 2016 the president himself I think did a wonderful job leading the country yet a vision But he frankly was let down by bad personnel that got inside the West Wing and never should have Navarre told the Washington

Examiner Monday at a cocktail. And press event for his new book, Taking Back Trump's Why We Lost the White House. And he continued, but in Navarre's mind, the election should have been a landslide that they would have likely clipped any potential fraud campaign ineptness, morphed Trump's showdown with Biden into something far closer than it otherwise would have been. And then you continue to talk about, you know, the West Wing dumpster. He has long lamented that the Trump administration was stacked with poor personal choices, such as former chief economic advisor Gary Cohen, former treasuries, secretary Steve Manouche

and former chief of staff, John Kelly. And then last but not least, there was one man in particular who's involved in particularly, Peef Navarro, Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. In 2016, we were significantly outspend by, but the money was used wisely. And in 2020, we had plenty of money, but Kushner burdened like monkey with a flame drawer. And when push came to shove in final six weeks of the campaign, we ran out of money. Navarro said there were young kids over there making six figures and then when the pandemic hit they didn't even work come to work. While Brad Pasquale was the chief of the floundering Trump campaign on paper, Navarro dubs Kushner as the de facto campaign manager responsible for much of the campaign's chaos in his book,

slated for release Tuesday. He alleged that Kushner frequently added points to the polls and lied to the boss, eventually Navarro and his allies, backed by Donald Trump Jr. concocted an unsuccessful coup coup d'etat of sorts of oust, Kushner from his campaign perch, according to the book, the Navarro Kushner was part

of a larger problem in the White House. Fuelling much of Trump's woes was the re-approachment with the traditional Republicans, the former president pursuing, pursued during his early White House days. So, I mean, this is a direct callout of Kushner. Yeah. Direct callout.

This is a son-in-law. This is Mary T.W.S. daughter. And this is a guy that was on the cover of Time Magazine, family, business, you know, all the great things he's doing with you. He's about 20 minutes from here. Yeah, he is. Setting up a money fund and leveraging his experience,

such as it was in the White House, making a ton of money, Middle East, maybe China. And it was a business to him. And look, if you talk about the campaign itself, um... and it was a business to him and look if you talk about the campaign itself i give you a couple of examples zucker berg at facebook

spent more money in the battleground states where this election was settled then the trump campaign did think about that zucker berg alone around states where this election was settled, then the Trump campaign did. Think about that. Zuckerberg alone spent more money. You tell him about the 400 million? It's more than that.

Last time I looked, it was more than that. More like 800 million. It's a bunch of money. And we didn't, look, you talked about me early on running for office, kind of the one mistake I made. I ran for Marissa, Indiego, 92. Lost by, you have percentage point, maybe percentage point to half, okay?

The big mistake I made was I spent my money early, okay? All I needed had to do with when that race was wait till the last three to four weeks and spend my money then when people were paying attention. We blew 10 million dollars super bowl ads for 60 seconds and when when the last three to four weeks of the campaign we had to pull ads from the battleground states and Biden outspend us in the battleground states on ads when we outraised him.

And this shouldn't happen, but the bigger problem, Patrick, was the messaging itself. The message should have been tough on China. It should have been tough on China. And I had a beautiful, one of the things I learned, I said, I learned, I go in there and I'm kind of a rube when I first get there. They try to bury me, and that's all chronicled in my in-trumptime book where they try to marginalize me. I've been on the campaign, I've been the top economic advisor, and when I get there, the

Ryan's previous chief of staff and the Rhino wing, they tried to just bury me over in the EOB. So what I did was dig in and learn how power works in the White House and the instrument of power in the White House is the executive order in presidential memorandum. And I learned how to write those things. And I think I had more hands and more eos than any other person in the West Wing when the dust settled, but the one that got away from me that would have swung the election. And it should be passed today in Congress was an executive order that would have held Communist China to account for the virus.

It called for investigating Communist China's role in the virus and estimating the costs of that virus on the U.S. economy, demanding reparations and basically just airing this whole thing out. And I got within a whisker, I get in the boss on board with that he liked it initially, but he got talked out of it by the likes of Kushner at all who didn't want to rock the China boat. They thought, oh, it's like, now we can't do that now. But that that would have shifted the blame for the pandemic from Trump's shoulders, which was there unfairly to where it belonged to communist China, and that one got away.

And that's, to me, the ultimate failure of the Trump campaign. We ran, we forgot who we were. We were, we were mega and we're tough on China. We forgot that and we lost. So with the election coming up, Peter, you've got the American people were hurting on two sides. One, we were hurting socially because we got the virus, we got vaccines, people we know were passing away. That's real.

It was very real. But then we also had economic impact. We see what happened to credit card debt that was later bailed out by the $20 million of printing money and stimulus. So you're saying at that time, just being tough on China would have swung the election. This seems like a broad statement with a lot going on with the American voter. Yeah, okay, let's, let's, let's,

when was this? Let's put this, January 20, 2020, you're very specific about that. When would you have implemented this tough on China at what point was that when you, when they said, no, we're not gonna do this. Well, so we can kind of see the mind and the ramp. You're very specific and you're very convincing.

Show us the ramp and the election from that day. Okay, let's first make the case that in January 2020, Trump was a lock for re-election at that point. I think that the strength of the economy, I don't think anybody would be able to beat it. Nobody would beat it. Nobody would beat it. We all remember the same thing. Then, where the NBA player, Mark Cuban on camera,

the NHL, Panics and Councils, at 72 hours in February, is probably a book someday, 72 hours in February, where life changed for us. Prior to that, 100% agreement. Yeah, and just a little side note. I was in the Oval Office with the president, with Cudlow, with Manuchin, with others,

Mulvaney in early February before all this fell apart. And they're going like, they don't worry about the virus, it's no big deal, we got it under control, right? It's like, there's only, Cudlow goes, there's only four cases that I'm thinking, dude, you don't understand logarithmic progression. You know, Fauci became the voice of the administration, Trump became the guy that the American people held responsible for everybody dying. And,

you know, we did some great things. I got some great tales in the book about getting, this is cotton swabs over from a plant in Italy in three days after commandeering Pentagon planes in the cooperation of FedEx. I mean we were like we did as well as we can but but we didn't market it Well, so my point is that talk about the first chapters of operation warp speed Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and my point is that is that the virus Just just everybody blamed Trump. Let's agree that the American people blame Trump for the virus. I think that's for not handling the virus well.

So that was the problem we were dealing with. The conversation about the election and driven by CNN and MSNBC with their body counts to a certain extent, Fox, was that this is the major issue in Trump's The Blame. I think that's, I was the sentiment of the country and it's like, wait a minute. It's like, we're doing a good job if we could get that message out, but more importantly is in trump's fall this is a virus from a lab in woohan that's being hit so my thinking was that if we could air that out that would that would basically we were going to drop the report okay the preliminary, the EO was written. We dropped the preliminary report

in the first week in October. And that report would be from a group of very distinguished people. You know, you look at the data, it's like, there's no doubt that thing came from the lab. And that would have, I think, I think that would have helped with one issue, or would have changed the dialogue on that,

but that one got away. You talked about the number of people on the campaign, specifically Kushner, when you were talking about. During that time, in 2016, Brad Pasquale was the digital media director and then I think in 2020 he became the campaign manager. Yeah, in 2016 I recall him being a star. Everybody was talking about, look what a great job he did,

but then you're criticizing him for 2020 on what he did. So what was different about Brad in 2016 versus 2020 with a strategy? What Pascal did well was handle digital media. He wasn't running a campaign, mind you. Running a campaign is a very complex task across 50 states. I mean, you got to do all sorts of stuff. And what he did was one important bucket out of a hundred. And the two worst mistakes that

Pascal made, it was the same mistake in a way, was when he got on 60 minutes after the 2016 election and effectively not only claimed credit for the win, you know, was him not Trump to won the election because of his genius, but he also revealed that he had recruited Facebook employees. And I think Twitter employees actually work inside the campaign to help them managing their messages on the social welfare platforms. Okay. What did that do?

That was like a wake up, right about this in the, in Trump time, but that's like a wake-up call to Silicon Valley. It's like Zuckerberg's getting hate mail, Dorsey's getting hate mail. How could you lie in bed and make a bunch of money from Trump? And it, par scale basically planted the seeds of Zuckerberg's counteroffensive in the 2020 campaign. Look Brad, Brad's a good guy. He's a nice guy, but he's a geek.

He sits. Yeah, he's again, it's like when the pandemic hit it was a blessing for him. Cause he could go back to what he did in 2016. He's a tough guy to find out they're very important. What, what, what he did in 2016 was sitting in San Antonio most of the time in front of his computer. And like this time when the pandemic hit, he was down here in Miami significantly richer with like a big boat and seven cars. He didn't

even come very often up to Arlington to the campaign. You can't do that. Look, look, it's like the analogy I used was like putting a champion place kicker in a quarterback. Okay, he was a great place kicker in 2016. Okay, you can hit the uprights from 60 yards. And in 2020, you can't put him in the Super Bowl. That's the Super Bowl guys. That's the Super Bowl. And he was in Tom Brady. Axios, July 28, 2020 story, 2022 story, Navarro's dream cabinet for potential second term run of our hardcore Trump oil is gives Axios an exclusive look at the passage containing potential choices for second term cabinet for him his for come and book taking Trump back, shaking back Trump's America, some old gang choices for 2025, former Trump national security adviser Robert O'Brien for Secretary

State, Ben Carson to HHS, Bob Light instead of the urban, assertive, yeah, which was like, come on, give me a break here. By the way, if Carson had been there when the pandemic hit, we would have been a lot better off. Go ahead. I think a lot of people agree. Bob Light, Light Desertether light hizer to commerce a cash patel to direct the national intelligence john ratcliffe to c i

director ken kuccellini returning as head of home insecurity well we went over the disandars car so i got everything that but go ahead then uh... broil it in second term of energy. Linda McMahon to hard. Yeah. David Barnhart in second term of material. And for new blood with strong, Trump loyal tiles, judge Jean, Jeanine Piro, Fox News Attorney General. Some say she may not have a

job for too long with time. Her and, uh, uh, what's her name? Um, Bartiroma. Yeah. That's the name. That's spend. But go ahead. Okay. Former Congressman Sean Duffy to head transportation Love him billgurts for DNI or CIA or Colceo Safra Cats or Laura Trump as UN ambassador and Mike Pillsbury Frank Affney and Brian Kennedy as Ambassador to China nails so any other names you would say and Vassiter to China. So any other names you would say that, and by the way, this is for the cabinet.

Right now for him to win. For West Wing. Right, right now for him to win 2024. Do you think he has the right people on his team today to win 2024? Yeah, so far. Yeah, but it's early in the campaign and there's a lot of demands on President Trump now. One of the things that really worries me is he's got this think tank.

It's not his, but they're using his name to raise a bunch of money. It's run by Brooke Rollins, who was a good friend of Ivanka and ran the domestic policy council in the final months. And half of the people are more at that think tank or never trumpers. And documenting Lee So, it's like, what the hell is going on? There's just a lot of people measuring the drapes now on the outside and my counsel to the boss over and over is going to be, you know, your most important decisions will be personnel initially and we can't let history repeat itself there.

What would you say were, you know, you always hear if you work for President Trump, loyalties at the top, right? It's very important to be loyal to him. What other things you think he values to get people on the inside? Well, he didn't suffer fools, gladly. I mean, you gotta have the smarts and the loyalty. That's the combo. And he's a very, some of the greatest times I had in the Oval Office were when we were debating complex policy issues.

We were in the Roosevelt room with groups of top advisors where he'd go around the room and listen. And yeah, if somebody started saying something that wasn't smart, he'd cut them off, or if he is in a hurry way of finishing your thought, you can see kind of any moves things along. But in 2016, after he won, there wasn't a lot of developed talent at that point because nobody thought he was going to be able to run and there was some some

problems we had early that pay the way for Rhinos to get into positions of power. I mean I like Rhinx now, and by the time Rines got fired, he was on the Trump train. But when he first came in, he wanted no part, no part, of anything related to getting tough on trade. He was a strict Paul Ryan, Wisconsin Republican. They just wanted to pass a tax bill and repeal Obamacare.

They talked to boss into that and it was a disaster because they couldn't deliver the vote. So point is, bad personnel is bad policy. And I would be remiss here. I've been good about not mentioning this, but let me just say that, you know, I'm canceled, right? I appreciate you having me on your show But I'm canceled on places where I used to go normally like CNN MS NBC

Fox news and What I've discovered and this is why this is a great entrepreneur show. This is thing this the sub stack thing that Has enabled me to thing that has enabled me to speak directly to people in a way which helps me raise money also for my legal defense fund is it's a million dollar fight I'm in. But it's Peter Navarro.substac.com, PeterNavarro.substac.com. What I'm trying to do with the substac is about three times a week. I'm putting out op-ed length missives on issues related to communist China,

the economy and the financial markets, which speak to my strength as a macro economist in my Harvard PhD, things related to Fauci. And then just all things Trump 2020 or the link We posted four or five times already. I appreciate it. I think that's a question on the personnel We're talking about Trump's personnel. Yes, and for the audience Yes, race for impact. You may or not like the question, but this is the direct question to you You know Trump prides himself on

Hiring the best he's like I do the best. He's like, I do the best. I do the best. You know, the apprentice, you know, you're all that, all that. So, you know, I had a conversation one time with former chief of staff, General John Kelly. And we had a cocktail. We read a financial conference. He was the guest speaker and I candidly asked him a question. I said, what do you enjoy the most about working

for President Trump and what, what did you least enjoy the most? Or what was your biggest issue with him. He goes, my biggest problem with President Trump was that he was not willing to listen to experts. This is his former chief of staff, General John Kelly, telling me this is what he said. Okay. We just went down the list, Gary Cohen, Mick Mulvaney, General Mattis, General Kelly, Bill Barr. You said it was potentially a bad hire. Even Mike Pence at this point is not exactly in best favor with Trump, although I think he was a very loyal vice president, John Bolton, not exactly a fan. If Trump is elected a get. Yes.

What, how much should he actually listen to experts and how much should he go with his gut? Like you even gave the example of, you think that Fauci lied to him, right? Who he keeps around him. So if you're a trauma, you know that at the time. Right, well, you never know if someone's lying to you up front like you kind of find out in the end, but to be clear, if Trump gets elected again,

how much should he trust the advisors around him? Who should, we just went through this list versus just kind of go with his gut and do it by himself? What do you recommend? So, I had an interesting relationship with John Kelly. I admire a man who puts on a uniform and puts his life at risk out in places like Afghanistan and has it and basically sacrifices one of his sons to that war because he lost the son there. Kelly was not suited for being chief of staff

in the Trump White House. He should have stayed at the Department of Homeland Security. He understood border security and national security issues, and he would have done a good job there. But when Kelly came in, he committed the Corey Lewandowski Day Basi ultimate sin, was he didn't understand to let Trump be Trump.

And letting Trump be Trump means actually being able to listen not just to experts, but to everybody. And what Donald Trump loves to do every day, he's got to discipline. He's the hardest working man in show best. Trust me on that. What he loves to do every day is scan all of the media. He reads everything. He's watching TV, picking up all that. And then he's on the phone. Most of the day, or he's got in-person meetings with people asking him about issues. And he values people in the streets opinions as much as he does some of the so-called experts. And so what Kelly says that, what Kelly means is that he wouldn't listen to some of his advisors who we figured out pretty early

on didn't weren't on the Trump train. And Kelly wouldn't let him listen to others. I mean, Kelly used to eavesdrop on conversations and see the boss with the boss would do at night. You know, if you wanted to talk to the boss and I had to do this a number do this a number of times, it's like Kelly wouldn't let you talk to him. So I just called him a night. And it's like, and then the next day, it's like Kelly, what'd you call the boss for? He said, I had to talk to him. I'm an assistant to the president.

I'm a high-rank, I don't report to you. I have that conversation. But the point is that that's a bad rap. That's just wrong. And Kelly's mistake when he came in is he fell in with the wrong people, particularly on the trade issue. I mean, he went right with Manuchin and Cohn

and Rob Porter at the staff secretary office and they did everything possible with Kelly helping him to stop the steel and the lunar tariffs, to stop the China tariffs. And the boss looks up like six months later and goes, you know, where's my Peter? That was his rallying, right? He pulls me in. There's a famous scene in the book about how I go in there, mono, we mono with Gary Cohn and it's like, it's like the boss finally says, no, we're going to do this and we did it. And then shortly thereafter, cones out the frigging door. But that was Kelly's fault because Kelly tried to wall the boss off and wall people like

Meeoff, who supported the Trump stuff, which he viewed frankly as dangerous, and he went with the regular line. And you know, that's the sad thing was, there's a, there's a pregnant moment in the book where we're sitting in Buenos Aires, Argentina. And it's like, wanna Kelly's last days, he's know he's out the door. He's sitting right by me and he apologizes. And he basically says, you know,

it's like you were one of the good guys and I'm sorry I didn't get that right. And I said, you know, John, that's cool, man, we're good. Quick follow up. I totally appreciate having people that are on your team on the Trump train, certainly in your cabinet. But, I think offense, smart, that was my question.

It's, like I argue with the boss as much as I agree with. Right. Be, be, it's like I'll go in and tell him, tell him stuff that he might not want to hear, but he respects that. He respects that. That's why I was able to stay so long, because he knew when I came in there and told him stuff,

I wasn't bullshitting around. I just looked him in the eye. This is what I think. Right, and so yeah, I guess how do you not insulate yourself with yes men versus people who are on your team But I'll also give you critical feedback when you're not He dokes that out. He dokes that out quickly. Yeah, I mean he was like He gets these people in there and then he's stuck. I mean Mattis

Mattis that guy he sets up Like again, he's a general like you get you admire his service and the field but he wasn't he wasn't trained to run the Pentagon he goes over there and he walls himself off he won't accept the appointments of anybody we send over to him and steady wants to put in a bunch of liberal Democrat folks. And the biggest thing that I fought him on was in order to get steel and aluminum tariffs passed, which we need to steal and aluminum industries in this country. We had to have buy-in from the SEC DEF, the Secretary of Defense, on the Department of Commerce, Secretary Commerce, Wilbur Ross' effort. And he fought us on that. And the boss the secretary of defense on the cop department of commerce secretary commerce will be rosses effort

and he fought us on that and the boss is going i remember there's a this did not this is not turn out well for me over time because i've i'd took i would take a lot of heat from these guys but he brings me up boss brings me into the oval he's got madison wre Tillerson, there's the Secretary of State. And he's going... All these names, it's like the greatest hits ever.

Yeah, he's going, he's going, he looks it. And Rex was outgunned by the position from day one. Yes, but he goes, he goes, Peter, tell these guys why we need to put tariffs on South Korea, please, and renegotiate that deal. Would you tell me that please and it was like It's like guys. It's like national security is economic security economic security is national security if we keep letting the Koreans Get away with all the unfair trade and putting our pickup truck industry and our auto industry out of business

We're not gonna have the plants or the government revenues to make your tanks and planes. And by the way, Rex, we're not gonna have the status as a superpower if we're diminished by that. And that's those guys. Those guys, I've got to, something I've got to publish this thing. It's just a short letter from Kelly to me. Chief of staff Kelly,

when I was, I was like, as a White House advisor, I was in charge of foreign arms sales. Okay. They were like dragons. So the idea is that if we can sell F-16s to Bosnia, right, that's a good deal for the American people because it creates jobs and it also outsources some of our defense obligations. Like we don't have to be there, they'll do it for us. And Madison's office was giving me hard times. I kinda like, next thing I know,

I get this email from Kelly, it's like, full stop. Navarro, oh, what was it? What the hell do you think you're doing? General Mattis would do that. You should be that. It's a CC to what the hell did you think you were doing? I was doing Trump's, Trump's desire,

because he told me to get those foreign arms sales going. And that's the job of a white house advisor by the way John To use the power of the White House to move the Trump agenda and I looked at that I was like, yeah, it's like and I just kept doing what I was doing and but but but that's the kind of That's the kind of dynamic in there that that you know, it's like let's transition into a couple others sure that was very helpful it's we got a few more minutes I want to do a couple stores so this is fun by the way yeah no we're having a fire it up I like that you guys you guys have some fun on this show and you haven't even had any chocolate oh I I had a few few bits before

I got it said that dark chocolate, I guess you're going. It's a long slow burn. It's nice. It keeps you in there. We'll get you chocolate after this. So Abby Grossberg, okay. Abby Grossberg, who, she works at Fox. She was working under Tucker.

I think at one point she was their senior booker. I don't think her and Tucker have ever met. She criticizes Tucker, what the environments like. They don't care about telling the truth. And they don't care about woman. This is what she said of Fox News. All they care about is ratings and revenue, right? That's her.

Now, exchange came about where your, Ari Melbur, I think eight days ago, you've been on Ari multiple. You guys have had some good exchanges together. And he shares a recording. And here's what he says. I want to get your thoughts on this. So, so recording February 27, 2021, you say Trump also has to clean up the people who surrounded him in the final days of administration and who are crowding him now at Mar-a-Lago.

Like tens of millions of dollars left in the campaign that they didn't spend in time to challenge election issues and, ah, that was criminal. Abby, Grossberg says, what happened to all that money? Novorrow. Well, now they're going to, I'm going to name names Bill Stapian, Stapian Justin Clark or the campaign guys now that they'll go on the payroll and they'll spend that money and it'll go right into their pockets, brand-part skill, might get some of that as well. It's crazy. So one thing we're learning about Abby, if you're ever talking to her, just assume there's a recording on it. She's recording the conversation.

Okay. But what happened, you don't mind sharing this? Because as much as I like Abby and I interacted with her only when she was Bartiromo's producer before she got with Tucker. Is she trusted? She could have what you got? Yeah, she's very good at what she does. And I can talk a lot about how the problem at Fox but let me just say that she had no business recording me, that without telling me.

That's, yeah, and by the way i don't mind you know when i say something i'd i'd consider it to be on the record a case reporter say well you want to back out no no no it's like here it is i'm just i'll tell you that but uh... i think what's interesting about abby grossburg in my interactions with her uh... I think what's interesting about Abby Grossberg and my interactions with her

as a frequent guest on Bartoromo's Sunday show was kind of the progression of my cancellation from Fox. When I first got out of the White House, I would go on Bartoromo show, like I did when I was in the White House. It was like no big deal. what what would happen afterwards is like Abby would put me in Maria would want me on and a some other producer somewhere who should have had no business intervening Would say now he can't do that or he can't talk about this. There was one case and this is breaking a little news

We're actually recorded a segment. I think it was on Fauci. And it was, I mean, if you play that today, it was like fidelity. I mean, it was just so spot on. But for whatever reason, it was too hot to handle. They canceled it. They took it out of the lineup,

and they did it at such a late date because they taped the show and Then they put it together just before airtime that they had like a gap kind of at the end from it But what that tells me is that that the sensors at Fox were the never-Trump wing of the Fox News Network, which is which is large and wing of the Fox News Network, which is large and larger now, was already beginning to work their magic. And Abby was caught in that because she was trying to do legitimate, hard-hitting news that would appeal to the Fox viewer. And she wasn't being allowed to do that.

I don't know what happened with the Tucker stuff. I love Tucker. I don't want to get in the middle of that. But I do know when she was working for Bartiromo, the Fox News producers, with orders from the second floor, that's what they'd always say. It's from the second floor. Who's that?

That Suzanne Scott, who runs the network in Lauren Patterson. It was a powerful person in medium. Suzanne Scott and Lauren Patterson, don't count her out. She is more of a snake than Suzanne is. Suzanne will tell you to your face. Lauren will just stab you in the back. So numbers came out, Fox News, first week, viewership dropped 29.6%. First week dropped 29.

Since the firing of Tucker, since the firing of Tucker, 29.6% is a lot of numbers right there. After paying $750 million, $787. $787. So, so, so, on top of that, you have to find that you're, you're being paid. Joe Biden's writer writes one of the best jokes where he's at the the the the white house didn't what it was on the center's a lot of it and bec easier that owns msnbc and you know

the minions here that owns fox news and uh... it's a good joke that he says and you know great job to the writer and you have to tell those jokes these are jokes that you have to say what would happen what are your thoughts one would what's going on at Fox and as well as any thoughts you may have with Tucker not not related to Abby just Tucker himself. Well, again, there's a little breaking news for your show in terms of my cancellation. With Tucker, I was on Tucker every once in a while. But he had scheduled me twice to come down

to his Florida Fox Nation studio to do the All War Long Special, kind of like this. And both times those got canceled. And at the time, I was wondering whether it was part of the broader cancellation of Fox, but now I'm sure that. So I'm kind of wondering how he let that happen in some sense. I mean, I got pulled on my way to the video truck from Janine Show twice. So I think Tucker was really pissed off at the restraints that Fox was trying to put on him. And I think that probably led him to even fight harder

for what he wanted to say, which kind of escalated the whole thing. But look, Fox, I think Fox will be just more unhappy to let Fox News kind of fade sort of into the sunset. They don't have like a steady thing. Cable TV is, I mean, this is the future right here, right? It's a streaming model. The Fox audience demo is a cable news, very old, demographically.

It's like the Chinese population. It's kind of literally dying off. And they'll make all their money off Fox Sports, which is a bananas and Fox entertainment, and all the other kind of stuff they do. But the politics of Fox News is quite simple. You have the never-Trump traditional rhino Republican and name only wing in control of the network right now with the help of Lockwood and James Murdoch who are effectively Democrats.

Roger Ailes has gone, so he no longer pleases that. And Fox is never Trump and adopts that persona strictly for business purposes. That's where the money is. That's where the Wall Street globalist money, the Pfizer money that runs all the big farmer ads. And they just as soon have Trump go away. So they stop televising his rallies. They don't have him on very often. Surrogates like me, Rudy, Mike Flynn, Don Jr.,

it's like we're person in on Grotto Lara, Trump left there. And I think it's important, you know, a good, I urge people now to cut the cord. There's a pre-contest host and on Steve Bannon's war room pandemic. There's, there's newsmax, which is just up the road from here, there's the one Maraque news network.

And then there's just a wealth of podcasts out there that, you know, the real America's voice, which is the one band is on, also has like the young generation Charlie Kirk, John Solomon, at six with kind of the inside scoop. So my point is that, that don't watch Fox. And you, they're lying to you. They're lying to you. They're lying to you until they change their ways.

There's no reason to watch Fox. Tucker was pretty much the only reason why... Fox is lying to you. Oh yes. So let's define that. Hannity. Look, I feel bad. You got some people that are still blind.

You got some names there. Look, look, look, the whole election issue, they bullied Hannity and Lori Ingram into kind of like, oh, it's like leave it alone. Let's look at the net. That was the spin. That all came from the second floor, came from the Murdoch's.

But the lie, Fox will still throw red meat on the traditional issues. But at the end of the lie, like, Fox will still throw red meat on the traditional issues. But at the end of the day, they're not going to tell you the truth about everything from communist China, the real truth, to the Jansix, to November 3rd, and any of that. They're just not. And the Carl Roves, I mean, you look at Carl Roe, right? He's like, he's like the most powerful person on the air and Paul Ryan, the ex-speaker of the house on the board of directors,

he's the most powerful person head fox off the air besides the family itself. So do you think, do you think Fox and Murdoch's? There's a lot of talk. They're like, oh, we're gonna, they're gonna silence Tucker to the next 18 months and they're gonna keep paying them on the contract and they're not gonna release him because they're worried he's gonna be able to influence the election a lot. So they're gonna have to silence him there. Do you think, if let's just say that, that

theory is correct, do you think Fox and Murdoch's are for the Santas to help him? To anybody but Trump. But is it anybody but Trump? Yes. Or is it a liberal than the Santa's then Trump? No, no, it's anybody but Trump. Where's the Santa's? Look, Magga, right?

The first and foremost, what Magga is, is the strong American manufactured base achieved by being savvy and tough in the international global trading arena. American manufactured base achieved by being savvy and tough in the international global trading arena. The Santos has no experience in that. So he's getting a lot of big money from the Steve Schwartzman's, Malleri thinks of this world who own Wall Street and all the hedge fund money, who make all their money from that.

So it's anybody but Trump. and that's the way the coverage is going to go. I mean, I look at, I look at, for example, the Sunday show on Fox. You know, they have Aisa Hutchinson on. He's the guy's like Poland at less than 1%, they give him a platform. But to your point about Tucker, what's their strategy? I was on Eric Bowling last night. Bowling is a former Fox alum who got the same treatment Tucker's get.

He pushed him out the door and then the next thing, they're leaking all sorts of shit to try to, pardon me, the reputation stuff. And here's the strategy with Tucker. It's very simple what they're going to do. With Tucker, they're going to keep him on the payroll for a while until a couple of things happen.

One is that he signs a nondisclosure agreement, so he won't be dumping on Fox when he leaves. OK, that's one of the things they'd like to get. And then the meantime, they're going to use the leak machine to degrade his brand so that his options will be less whatever they are now. They'll be less by the time it gets out. And if you don't believe me, just look at the Lou Dobbs model. That's what they did with Lou. Lou was the Tucker of Fox Business. Okay, he was the guy with the highest ratings on Fox Business, Tucker's eyes, guy with the highest ratings of Fox News. But they did with Lou, you know, he was a sacrificial man.

They fired him, they kept him on the payroll. I think it was for over a year. And now he's, you know, he's doing a podcast and he, you know, he's, I love Lou you know he's I love Lou but he's you know struggle to stay in the top 100 they degraded his brand and so that's the strategy and and they the only issue with Lou dobs is what almost 80 Tucker's in his early 50s he's not talking about right now what he's saying is what they did to him right after yeah it's the same yeah but it's the same personality he's talking about contract strategy yeah It's the same. Yeah, but it's the same. It's not my personality.

He's talking about contract strategy. Yeah, yeah, it's the point. I get it, but Tucker's a fighter, whereas Lou Dobbs is a little bit older. It's going to be harder to silence someone that has way more mainstream than Lou Dobbs. And what was Lou's sin, patriotism? Yeah. I mean, Tucker, look, Tucker's, you write on Tucker's a bigger, bigger force because you're talking about the 77, you know, Tucker's a bigger Got a force because you're talking about it 77. You know Tucker's 50

Three or 54 and do respect the Lou dobs. I watch Fox business all the time Charles Payne and Neil Cabuto think of their great barteroma Tucker's way bigger than Lou dobs Let's stay They learn from what what if somebody offers what if somebody offers to buy Tucker's current Remaining contract with Fox release them and sell now they they they look the big thing is the non disclosure Okay, they don't want Tucker going off and and talking about the inner workings of Fox It goes he goes over to like I don't know news max or one America's news Like, I don't know. Newsmax or one America's news.

Those things like, immediately, their whole viewership jumps dramatically. Real America's voice brings them in. I mean, they don't. They have to, they have to shut him down. They have to keep him quiet. You know, that's what they do. If you look at what they did with Megan Kelly,

whoever, it's like they get them, they force them to sign non-disclosure deals and they leak, that's the big thing. They're leaking all sorts of stuff right now to kind of make Tucker look like a story. You know, what, you know, erase, they do the same thing that Trump gets. He's a misogynist, he's a racist, he's like this,

he's like, you can't believe any of that crap. There's a playbook here. There's a playbook. And they're following the playbook. It's just business and it's scurly business. It's business without ethics or morals. And that's why I say the people who watch Fox News cannot trust Fox News to tell them the truth.

Well, isn't that politics in general, business without morals and ethics? That's just, I mean, that's politics. Yeah, but isn't that politics become the same principles for journalism? Okay. Well, last time I looked, it's called Fox News. It's not called Fox propaganda, although it should be. Well, yeah. We can have a hold two hour podcast about that.

I got two chapters in the, in the, taking back Trump's America book on the, uh, the fall from grace of the fourth estate. But the, you know, I mean, I, it's like, we're, Ari Fleischer wrote a whole book about that. He was here a handful of months ago, and said exactly that. Yes.

And, and I mentioned Ari in my taking back Trump's American book is one of the problems we had early on was we lost the guy who would have been a good press secretary in Jason Miller to his own kind of personal troubles. And then we had a succession of people that never met the standard of the airy fleshers of this world, or Pierre Salinger's, or some of those really good press secretaries who could handle the media. We just got handled, but that's another story. I don't know, we're gonna see what's gonna happen there. I mean, obviously, there is a massive need

for something right now. And if they're not gonna release the guy because they're trying to hurt him the next 18 months and spread all these rumors, the text, the white man, something right now. And if they're not going to release the guy because they're trying to hurt him the next 18 months and spread all these rumors, the text, the white man you saw what they said about, you know, Tucker's exchange. Was that how white men fight and all this other stuff? I don't know if it's going to work. And I think it could potentially also backfire on them. But we will see. We're going to see what's going to happen. Tom, what is going on with the economy? I know yesterday pal said the increase the rates by court of a basis point what what what what do you know about what's

going on right now well in economists in the house so maybe we talk about the economy and talk about the fed yesterday well as we like to stand this program uh... drum pal did we said he's gonna do he had upstairs and saw the cheerleader and pounded the economy for another quarter point however in his comments the the comments that Jerome Palmaid, everyone was expecting him to have a very,

everybody reads the statements of the Fed and we were looking for moderated statement. And after this, I anticipate maybe a flat summer. And he starts talking about manufacturing in mid-year. Instead, he said, you know, I got to watch this economy because, you know, like training a dog, there may be more firming necessary. And when he said the word more firming necessary

in his comments, everybody Wall Street got nervous and you saw the whole banking sector yesterday, It wasn't just first republic contagion. It was concerned that he used more farming, maybe necessary, which means in June, they think rates may go up. So what's going on right now? The most likely scenario, and I'm going to go out and say this. So this is what I think, PPD, everything I've looked at. I don't think we're going to see a rate increase in June. I don't think we're going to see it in July because it's every six weeks, folks, that the Fed gets together with their board of governors and they all meet. And I don't think there's going to be a rate increase, then we get all the way down deep into September. What I do think is we are an 88% of the analysts on Wall Street believe we're going to have a mild recession that is evident in the November timeframe. That will push

the Fed's hand and I believe in December, you'll get your quarter point drop because they'll want to put liquidity into the economy because combination of unemployment and a defined recession and unemployment usually goes with recession because people are not employed and not buying stuff, which pulls back GDP. I think that's what's going on. I think we're about to have a flat summer, but we did not get the enthusiasm about tamed inflation that we thought we were going to get from J. Powell. And he put the next quarter point on there and it's not going to help the housing market. It's not going to help mortgages

and it's not going to help business liquidity. There's a big credit crunch right now and commercial real estate is in deep trouble. What do you say about that? What are your thoughts? Rob, do me a favor. See if you pull up like Bloomberg and see what right now, what the S&P is doing

whether it's up or down. And because. S&P's down. Third of a point. Third of a point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yesterday it, it, it, it, it, it, it, I don't want it.

Right, after, so my joke is that the, the, the, the way to be able to afford a house in Palm Beach over the last, I don't know, ever since Powell got appointed, was to short the stock market whenever he got on the podium. And there's been only one time when Jim Brom Powell has got on the podium where the stock's went up. Because even if he's got like good news, right?

He can't, he's like selling sushi like good news, right, he can't, he's like selling sushi like raw fish, right? So the guy, you know, it just doesn't make it, but what you've just laid out is kind of, I think that's like hope is not a strategy. It's like Mike Tyson thing, that you've got a plan when you go into the ring until you take the first punch in the face.

And we got punches coming out. So here's the way, here's the one thing I can tell, tell your viewers here. It's like, when you're in a stagflation world like we are, which is simultaneous recession and inflation, that's not normal. You usually have one or the other. And when you have that kind of macroeconomic condition,

Keynesian policy tools do not work. So if the Fed tries to retain inflation by raising interest rates like it's doing, it's going to trigger a worse recession. If it relents, like you're saying, down the road by cutting rates or stopping, it's going to exacerbate the inflation. And so the Fed is a one trick pony. You can't use expansionary and contractionary fiscal policy to control stack-flation. The answer here, and this will be for the campaign in 2024, is the only solution is structural. Structural changes in the economy. And right now,

what we need to do in the very short run is for Kevin McCarthy and the Republicans to hold the line and get a deal where you cut back some of those extravagant expenditures by the Biden regime because part of the inflation is what we call demand pull inflation, too much money chasing too many goods. That would be a good step. And the other kind of inflation you have is cost push, right? It's the worst kind of inflation, and that's the food and energy type inflation. And that's where you need the structural solution. So, you watch President Trump, he is going to run on the restoration of strategic, full

strict, and energy dominance so that we can go back to where we were, which was the incredible position of being the number one petroleum producer in the world and a net exporter determining the price of oil in world markets rather than what we are now where Biden has seated that, not just the Saudi Arabia, but the Russia, it wrote a substag about it. It's just kind of stuff I do. It's like, right now Putin needs $100 of barrel oil to fund his war machine. Saudis need $85 of barrel to fund their social welfare bribery machine.

What they do, the Saudi deal is they pay off the people there from throwing them out at knife point by giving them a bunch of government services, right? And so we're going to have oil, which is going to be $8,500. That's going to drive up food prices for the next two years. Instead of the $60 barrel oil, we average under Trump. So that'll give you a flavor, but if God forbid, I were fed chair.

I'd be telling the White House and the Congress is, hey, I can't solve this problem alone for you. You need to take the appropriate steps. I'm raising rates to control inflation. And Congress and Joe, you're past some massive spending to bills Which we don't need which you're pushing inflation out of control. Yes sir. I happen to agree with you on one thing there is Best with The good troll

Well played and I was about to do it on a couple things. So it's like, geez. By the way, that's a good troll. Oh, I'm quite played here. And I was about to be nice to you. The energy, energy independence. Yeah. And in this room, all of us in this room are all about drill, baby drill. And because what you can do in an N-WAR, what you can do in Permian Basin,

and we all know you were speaking about the economic viability cost per barrel. We all know what happens at $60 a barrel. Below $60 a barrel, we can't do anything in North Dakota with the shell, because we have like a $55 in the extraction cost. Although we're getting better. That's right, it's moving target.

It's coming down, but by taking your point. By the way, us in Canada with the Alberta Sands, that's why the Saudis, six years ago, artificially cratered them down to 45. And they wanted to keep it below the extraction capability of the Alberta shell and the... And Trump got all over them for that. Correct.

So number one, energy independence, you're correct. So in other words, for people who are paying attention here, drilling is good, sensible drilling is good. Sensible drilling is good. Sensible drilling makes you independent of other people because you can take the oil that we have here. First, and second of all, overstimulus when you're talking about demand pull, that's what people seem to understand. When you give $1.6 trillion to the American people, they don't put it in their bank account and buy regular consumer staples and get through COVID. They go out and buy a ton of crap and it creates its

own inflation, not only with the demand pull, but also the devalue of the currency value because you just what you did to M1 and M2 because you throw all this money into the barrel. Yes. Last question, last conversation. So you see, one thing. Hope it's not a method, but we agree more than you think. Just so, you know where I stand on the climate change issue. If you believe in climate change, there's only one way to solve that problem. That's carbon capture on the supply side.

You can't have the American people just unilaterally disarm on the oil drilling and expect India and China and the rest of the world not to stay on carbons. But anyway, last time. Tom, I do a few words. 30% electric cars in California call your insurance. Last thing here, this just happened yesterday. Okay, new mortgage fee spark controversy. They were talking about this as a possibility. It's officially effective. Mortgage fee at 740 credit before 1750. Now, $3,062, just because you have good credit. So you pay lesser fee for having worse credit, bad credit. And this is calculated at a $350,000 mortgage, 20% down.

You're paying $1300 more fee for being responsible with your credit. By the way, find this a 350 mortgage. There's more like 600. I don't normally have high blood pressure, just the opposite. But when I saw that, these woke fools are just destroying this country. They're destroying the economy, the political system, the culture, the judicial system. And that's why we got to take back Trump's America. That's this 2024 election.

If we don't take back the House and the Senate with Trump Republicans and the White House, this beat will go on. It's like, there, it just, no. No. So can we play one game for two minutes? Sell this to me, be a devil's advocate and sell it. Now the common sense makes no sense, but actually try to make an effort Tom to sell this

or Peter, how do you sell this? Okay. So I'll be Biden. What was the question? What are we talking about? Um, the, the, the, the, so it's the first thing is I'm gonna help first time homeowners who are from lower income because mortgage insurance

and there's a part of this that adds to your payment. So I want to help them. But because it's coming from the federal side, you know, we have to have an offset. And the offset is going to be other people are going to pay more. And folks, folks, come on now, a tax pays for battleships and for social programs and a lot of other things. And the wealthier people

pay more tax than these people. Think of it that way. How would you sell it? How do you sell this? I'm really trying to figure out how I- I'm trying to sell it on the inequitable tax base because that's how it's been sold. Adam, how do you sell this? Well, you can't sell it because it makes no sense. The reason that I think I found issue with this, it's not exactly answering your question, but my issue is, I've made my name, at least in the social media world, about being smart with your money, being prudent with your money,

being having fiscal conservative with your money, and paying off debt, saving money, investing, putting it in index funds, buying reats, just driving up your credit score, doing everything you should be doing to have a good framework for your finances. And then enter this where it's like, yeah, turns out we don't need to do any of that because we'll give you a better loan and if your credit score sucks, it's all good. So it, to me, it's sort of just the antithesis of what you should be doing. I'm willing to listen to way you sell something.

How do you sell Obamacare? Okay. You can sell something. How do you sell Obama here? Okay, you can sell it. How do you sell, you know, how do you sell this? How do you sell this? Hey, because you are responsible, you got Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, Greg, or 740, that means you're rich. So you can afford to pay $1300 more to the poor man who is not responsible

to spread it because that's what we gotta do. Well, just because. Just because you have a good credit score doesn't mean you're rich. Just means that you're not exactly drowning in debt and your bill is on time. You're doing what you should be doing. So you can hopefully become rich. I know a lot of broke people with great credit. Yeah, I know a lot of great people, you know, poor people with credit.

Anyways, Peter has been great having you on. We're going to put the link brought to your sub stack, Rob again, as well as the book. Folks, if you haven't ordered it yet, go order the book as well as subscribe to Dr. Peter Navarro's sub stack as well. Aside from that, I think today's what, today's Thursday, so we got no other podcast or we do have podcasts on Saturday. Saturday morning, yes. Saturday morning, who's good?

Temple. Temple will be on the podcast. I have a podcast. Yeah, it's coming in here. I've been at temples shop out and the the Blue Ridge mountains there were it's like Little more rustic, okay? No more rustic What?

He got animals chickens running around in the yard a little dust That's cool. Well, we got chickens here as well, but they're different kind of He's slummin' it down here in front of each, China. Very cool. Well, Dr. Peter Navarro again. Thank you for coming. This was fantastic. I greatly enjoyed this. Anytime. Take care everybody. Bye bye bye.