PBD Podcast - Russia vs Ukraine, JFK Assassination, Trump vs Deep State w/ Oliver & Sean Stone | PBD Podcast | Ep. 522

Starting point is 00:00:00 The winner is... The Oscar goes to... Oliver Stone! Oliver Stone for Midnight Express! Oliver Stone, born on the 4th of July. Please welcome Oliver Stone! I went to Nam as a soldier eventually in 67-8. And I saw things that just shocked me.

Starting point is 00:00:20 Opened my eyes, I'd never be the same again. Combat is a searing experience. And devastating to what your sense of life is worth. Your sense of self. You have no illusions about yourself. Or what life comes down to. It comes down to a very basic thing. Survival. And with some consideration for all the men and women, or what life comes down to, it becomes a very basic thing, survival.

Starting point is 00:00:47 And with some consideration for all the men and women all over the world who are in prison tonight, I thank you. They are what? They are a reflection of you seeking something or in a sense taking leave of something. Taking leave and seeking, they're both occurring, you've gone through a process

Starting point is 00:01:04 and you leave it, you become a both of her you know you've gone through a process of you leave it You become a bit of what you've done And it's sort of a benchmark that tells you I was here and now I can move on Did you ever think you would make it I feel so close I like it tastes sweet victory I know this life meant for me Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got bet David? Valuetainment, giving values contagious

Starting point is 00:01:34 This world are entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters I ain't running homie, look what I've become I'm the one Alright, okay so are we live Rob? Yes sir. Listen can you imagine we're watching the intro here together okay with the great Oliver Stone and his son Sean who is here they're working he Sean just finished up a documentary all the president's men which we'll talk about later on with Tucker with a bunch of different

Starting point is 00:02:00 guys about Trump and I'm going through the list. And again, we had you on March of 2022, okay? Which when you were on at that time, the whole Ukraine thing was new. It had just happened so we started talking about it and you know, it was kind of risky to give the opinions and you gave and we talked about it. But again, reminder to everybody, what movies you've been a part of.

Starting point is 00:02:23 If you don't mind me taking a moment and sharing this Okay, Wall Street. We just watch it with the kids the other day Okay, writer and director Wall Street money never sleeps with Shia LaBeouf director Midnight Express writer Conan the Barbarian writer Scarface writer platoon writer and director born on 4th of July writer director producer JFK all three natural-born killers all three. By the way, I loved Nixon. I can't believe most people don't watch that. It's such a great – Anthony Hopkins, phenomenal movie with the stories you see. Aveda, Any Given Sunday, Alexander Snowden, I can keep going on, things you've done with Lula, 2024 writer, director, Putin, all the interviews. It's great

Starting point is 00:03:05 to have you here again. Don't forget nuclear energy. Oh, that's right. Nuclear energy with Russia, which we'll get into that as well. Oliver, if you want to get a little closer to the mic, that'd be great. But it's great to have you guys here. So let me ask you for you, you know. Where's my camera? I don't see myself. You have six cameras on you. You have so many cameras. But for you, when you think about it yourself, Sean, to you he's your dad. But I mean, what is it for you when maybe we miss it?

Starting point is 00:03:33 What do you think is the most impressive thing he's done in his career? That's a good question. From your perspective, not ours. What is the most impressive thing? Giving birth. Yeah, I don't think you did that. Apparently you got kicked out of the hospital

Starting point is 00:03:46 because he was watching the Niners, he was watching the Niners-Giants game. When you were born. Playoff game, 84. Not before. My wife, he got kicked out of the hospital. But the Niners won at least, he was happy. No, that's not true, you know, it takes a long time.

Starting point is 00:04:03 You have to sit there and sit there. 12 hours sometimes. And it was a Saturday. You have to sit there and sit there. Twelve hours sometimes. It was a Saturday or something and I wanted to see that game. So my wife was, I said I'm going to go out and come back and I came back with a pizza and I'll never forget it was nauseating, the smell. She couldn't take it. So she asked me to get the fuck out. She was screaming.

Starting point is 00:04:22 But then I came back. I saw him being born. No, I know. I saw him coming out. You saw him being born. I know, I saw him coming out. You saw him being born? He did, he did. That's cool. So what do you think it is? What do you think it is from your end?

Starting point is 00:04:31 Because for us, again, as fans, you're on the inside. Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent, I was more on a certain level of personal inside, but he's got a whole other life that I don't know. I think the, it's hard for me to say what's most impressive. You look at the films and what he's been able to do consistently across the years is be authentic

Starting point is 00:04:54 and be a storyteller that's not beholden to the system. So you can't say what, you know, JFK is the most important film or Platoon at Warren. I mean, each one is a personal experience, right? Some people love this one more than the other. No, I mean, you know, you mentioned like Wall Street, like very watchable, right? Wall Street's kind of movie you can watch

Starting point is 00:05:12 multiple times. Multiple times. Scarface, you can watch it multiple times. JFK, I've probably seen the most, I would say. Really? Well, I like thriller, conspiracy, mystery, and you know, it's such a rabbit hole that you start going down. You really, you recognize there's a lot of details

Starting point is 00:05:28 that you can't get on one or two tries watching it because it's such a thorough film. Nixon also has that quality. I just love, I was surprised how many people I asked, have you seen Nixon? Have you seen Nixon? Have you seen Nixon? No, I haven't seen it.

Starting point is 00:05:41 Like, I don't know why you haven't seen it. I obviously, I think it's a three and a half hour movie, maybe three hour and 10 minute movie. Can you pull up how many? Is it 312? Yeah, it's a long movie, but I could not stop watching that film to learn the history and the acting and the 312.

Starting point is 00:05:59 Why, you know the exact minute. That's pretty wild that you know the minute. Yeah, you gotta fight for these things. minute Yeah, you got to fight for these things What do you mean you got a fight for the three-hour movie in those days was not normal at all it was a special event when I grew up it was a What they called, you know an intermission film was a spectacle but by the time is 1980s 90s It was turned in yet to be a single feature and that because they don't want to they were playing the theater owners were putting pressure on the studios, you know We want quicker. We want quicker turnovers. We want six turnovers a day

Starting point is 00:06:32 We want to sell popcorn in between there's all kinds of economic reasons for a three hour and 12 movies a killer You only have four shows three day shows a day Okay, so now a streaming your business man. You should. That makes sense, so you can't play that many. So I can do two, five times, I can do three, maybe three or four times. Right. That's the way they think. I got it. You get like a two o'clock, a five o'clock. A comedy,

Starting point is 00:06:54 an hour 45, perfect. That's what they like, the hour 45. Hour 40 even. Well, I mean, what did they prefer? Do they prefer a three hour hit that gets hundreds of people coming in that, you know, five people show up. JFK was a hit.

Starting point is 00:07:09 Nixon was not because I think it was a darker poster and he was a darker man and John Kennedy was more popular. Also, people were interested in his assassination, whereas a Nixon presidency was shrouded with ambiguities. And that was a problem selling it. That was a problem selling. We didn't have a big American star. We had Anthony Hopkins, who's just very good English. He wasn't a big star at the time? No, he was not. Are you kidding? What do you read this film was Remains of the Day and Remains of the Day was his biggest film.

Starting point is 00:07:41 Legends of the Fall. He was a father and the house? No, that's not true. Hopkins had won the best actor for Silence of the Lambs. Oh, I'm sorry, Silence of the Lambs. Yes, you're right. So Nixon is post-Silence of the Lambs? Yes. I mean, meaning Anthony Hopkins. Yeah, Anthony Hopkins to me, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:57 do you put him up there for you with guys you worked at? Oh, I put him at the top, one of the top, you know, up there with Al Pacino. Yeah, sure. He was a wonderful man. What makes, because for you, we were talking, and the audience doesn't see this, and I said, guys, let's go, let's go,

Starting point is 00:08:16 because we're already having a podcast, right? And what did you say? You said you want all of it to be, what was the word used? You said authentic, or you want it to be, you used some word, where he said he just wanted it to be, what was the word used? You said authentic or you want it to be, you used some word where he said he just wanted it to be off the cuff. And I said, yeah, that's interesting

Starting point is 00:08:30 because in your world, do it again, second take, third take, fourth take. What's the most takes you've ever done in a scene? Not that many, I'm not that patient. Maybe 12, 13, 14, and that's not working. I mean, I try to make change. Some directors will let it roll and roll and roll because it's tape. I don't feel that way. I feel it's a waste of energy. You got to concentrate that energy.

Starting point is 00:08:53 One time one actor had a memory problems. He was getting there older and you had to put the cue cards up and then basically force him to just read the cue cards. It was pretty painful. That was is this an actor we know or? I put the cue cards up and then basically forced him to just read the cue cards. It was pretty painful. I don't know if that was 15 days. Is this an actor we know? Yeah, well we shouldn't. He's a good actor. Academy Award winner, but he reached that stage

Starting point is 00:09:15 when drugs and stuff or whatever, medications had slowed him down. And then what do you do in that moment? Are you frustrated because? Oh yeah, I had the other actor was sitting across the table from him and those people who remember this Know that the other actor was eating the tuna fish sandwich for the scene. It was a lunch scene So he's eating the sandwich and he ate 17 or 18 of them and I was really worried about his weight Yeah, but he was a strong guy. He managed to absorb. They were ham sandwiches. I think he was getting sick.

Starting point is 00:09:46 Two and a half. Not a chance. Two and a half, I think. It was really hard. Yeah, hard. Those are hard moments. So the director goes through some hells. What, you know, when you see stuff for,

Starting point is 00:09:59 again, for us who were not in it, we see that Christian Bale loses mind clip, right? I don't know if you've seen it or not, right? You ever seen Christian Bale getting upset at the camera guys, at the light guys, you know? Have you seen that? On Terminator 3 or 4, he flipped out. He wasn't really happy with film in general, I think. It was not his kind of movie, right? Yeah, I mean, and Christian Bale is, you know, a phenomenal actor, in my opinion. He's a phenomenal actor. But you see him, you see Tom Cruise, you see some of those. Is that pretty common with the temper flaring?

Starting point is 00:10:32 Because as an artist, as a creator, in that moment, you're getting in such a unique state that you need zero, zero distractions. Is that kind of? Well, it happens quite more than you think. People get nervous and they get upset because it takes time. And it's a grueling process over 60 days, 50 days, depends. And I've seen many people lose their temper. Everyone loses their temper on something, right? Well, it's not fun. It's not fun to be the director of that

Starting point is 00:11:03 person, but that happens. And we have to live with it. It's not fun to be the director of that person, but that happens and We have to live with it. It's part of life. This they're happy sometimes and they're miserable some other times, but it's a it's a hard process so it's It's a life process every film takes something out of you I I feel like it's a tree a tree with you know rings around you got those rings they build up I don't know how in the old old days, they did 50, 60, 80 films. Okay, you have to, to a certain point, you have to be insensitive and cut it off,

Starting point is 00:11:31 and just, it's just a role, it's just a movie, and you get into a different attitude. You used to lose your temper a lot more, though. I think you've calmed over the years. Who? You used to lose your temper a lot. Oh, none, talk about myself, talk about the actors. No, but you had some big fights.

Starting point is 00:11:45 Of course I did. Every director has. What happened with you and Shai? Something happened with Shia. Shia LaBeouf. Nothing. Shia was a good actor. Very. You know, he's very opinionated. That's all, you know. So, you know, save the opinions because you don't have to tell me about the screenplay

Starting point is 00:12:03 and about what you think about the movie and all that. No, but you had a very funny conflict with Val, right, Kilmer. You guys got along much better later, but on the doors, remember, you were at each other's throats. He was a bit of a primadonna in my mind. Val was. At that point. At that point. Yeah. And so for you, but he was working very hard remember that and he was doing the songs too he he was dead he was close to dead he cost us a fortune in massages you know i mean we had about every time he was on the set we had to pay somebody it was a fortune seriously we went way over budget on that. Just for massages. Well, the film was over budget,

Starting point is 00:12:47 that was a big part of it too. Wow. You don't think of these things, do you? I mean, is it, but does it get like, you know, there's a story of Maradona who they said, hey, we want you to be the coach of whatever Argentine, I don't know if you've heard about this or not, where he says, yeah, yeah, no problem,

Starting point is 00:13:04 but you know what, to do that, I need a bathroom and I need my bathroom to be gold. They said, what do you mean? You ever heard this story or no? Yeah, Rob, can you pull this up to see if Maradona gold bathroom. Just you type in gold bathroom, let's see if it comes up or not. Diego Maradona's Toiled Seat evokes memorable, not. Diego Maradona's toilet seat evokes memorable, maybe you heard Maradona zooming a little bit. Argentina World Cup, Diego Maradona reportedly requested that is two high-tech toilets, heated seats, cost 150 each, to which page one there's

Starting point is 00:13:39 $50,000 office bathroom overhaul requesting. Anyways, maybe it's not this one. If you go to the picture images, he wanted a bathroom that was golden, okay? His request was. Is that the one? It's one of those. Says Maradona. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:55 What is the weirdest request an actor's made? And Oliver, how do you handle that? When they come to you and they say, hey Oliver, listen, this guy wants us to do XYZ. I mean, I can't imagine. If they say Val wants to do six massages a day. Six massages a day? Yes, what's the weirdest request you got?

Starting point is 00:14:12 Do you remember? I wouldn't know. That's all, a lot of that just gets moved out in deal structure in the beginning, right? And they'll put in these crazy requests like, you know, you hear about this stuff. Will Smith has his own private gym, he has got a trailer for his gym and, you know, they've got to

Starting point is 00:14:27 bring their, I've heard people have to bring their private hairdresser, their driver, you know, those are the worst they bring on their producing, but they bring on, they add all kinds of. It's the wasted money. Yeah, it's the fringes, the fringes. Well, we always try to keep that down and on the pictures I made because they were dedicated to a purpose, you know, we're trying to get this thing done. And the studios were never that cooperative with my stuff.

Starting point is 00:14:49 It was always a struggle to get it made, you can imagine, even JFK. So you can't, it wasn't, these were not movies given to the luxury system that Hollywood had in the 80s, 90s then. But Sean is right, the requests would be for assistance and assistance, and they're publicists and they're publicists. And by the time it grows into a little entourage of 10, 8, 9, 10 people, special people to help them with the accent and help them with the physical trainer has to go. Sometimes the gym equipment has to go.

Starting point is 00:15:21 Yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, get used to, it's not like the old days, get used to life on location for Christ's sake. Oliver, who is a big, big, big shot? Award winning. That's the chillest, humblest, easiest to work with. I haven't worked with that many of them. Stop it, you work with everybody.

Starting point is 00:15:44 Yeah, but they were humble at that time. Everybody was humble. Mr. Hopkins, Mr. Pacino. Tom Cruise was young. He hadn't gone into that other hyperspace. And you know, I mean, Tom, I'm born on 4th of July. And Charlie was normal. So Charlie Shee. You know, it was it was William Defoe has always been over-light.

Starting point is 00:16:07 I can't really, I don't relate to those kind of people. I wouldn't hire them in the first place if possible. What would it be, Mother? What if they're the best place to be? If they had that reputation, you hear about it, you know. You don't want to have all, you don't want all the fringes. You have to be careful. So you have to set the rules at the beginning.

Starting point is 00:16:24 Listen, I'm going to make this kind of movie. It's gonna cost this amount. We gotta move at this pace. Are you gonna be on board or not? Otherwise, you have to walk away. But sometimes you need them to get the fucking film financed. That's what I'm saying. Some of these guys have the means.

Starting point is 00:16:41 It becomes a double edged sword. Or as they say, dual use. Sean, from your end, what is the sensitivity from the talent sensitivity versus the director sensitivity? How different is that? Well, I mean, that's, there are different ways of feeling in the world.

Starting point is 00:17:04 You know, I would just put it like this, is the director is almost like the chess player, right? They're looking, they have to feel, but they have to be strategically looking at everything. The actor is immersing themselves into feelings and moods that sometimes are maddening. You know, I did the behind the scenes on Alexander. That was my first foray into filmmaking,

Starting point is 00:17:24 was doing documentaries back when the DVDs had the behind the scene extras, you know, and they'd have featurettes about the making of or, you know, on W we did the same thing and Nixon we did like, you know, this real story. So on Alexander, I shot Fight Against Time, a feature length documentary, and we got I got some really good access to be able to see not fully the conversations, but to see a little bit of the dynamic. And it's like, you know, Colin Farrell was going through deep moods and experiences and madness at some points, actually.

Starting point is 00:17:53 While your while the movie is being shot, you're recording him and talking to him. Yeah, it's in the documentary. And you'll see, like, you know, it's like there are points where you start to wonder is this guy gonna you know end up like James Dean is he gonna kill himself because it's he's so passionate and erratic and you know he was he was a drinker at the time and you know he's Irish and it was like it was a little bit of uh it was testing his you know his his nerves to say okay can he pull this off without going over the edge right Right. And I think that's that's the issue is always, you know, you pulling out a performance from an actor, it's like pushing them to a place

Starting point is 00:18:30 that's uncomfortable. And that goes to the question of the conflict that sometimes occurs, is that he's pushing he knows how to push buttons. There's a very famous story of telling Michael Douglas on the first day of Wall Street or second day of Wall Street. You know, I saw the was a d it, the dailies from yesterday. What are you, like, you're a TV actor? Like, he'll say stuff like that to provoke, right?

Starting point is 00:18:54 With a straight look or with a smile? Totally straight, I think Douglas was shocked. No? That's probably true, it's probably true. We were having issues on the first. It was the wrong... He approached it. I have to say, he may not agree with me.

Starting point is 00:19:10 He's right. But he approached a movie like it was the streets of San Francisco or something, you know, one of the TV series that he did. It was just not the depth that I was looking for. I needed to... He was a major figure in the film. He was the antagonist. And frankly, he got an Academy Award. So if something happened, you know, he deepened

Starting point is 00:19:31 in that movie as an actor. What are you telling them? What are you telling them? Well, you have to first of all, deal with it. You have to deal with what you're seeing. I mean, they may not be... You may not be right. It might be too subjective. But tell the... Be honest if it's the time to be honest. Sometimes you hold back. But what I'm saying is as a director, is a part of the director not being afraid

Starting point is 00:19:54 of getting under their skin? You have to be, you have to tell the truth to some degree. You can't just fake it. I hate those directors who always say, oh great job, great job. That's, the words become meaningless, the currency useless. You have to have some truth factor in all your relationships.

Starting point is 00:20:11 Otherwise you're not, you're a boutique. Otherwise you're just being a showman, you're a traffic cop. How do you manage dad versus walking on eggshells around you? Was there an element of walking on eggshells around you? And is that okay? I think I was famous for walking on eggshells. You're walking on eggshells or the people around you were walking on eggshells around you and is that okay? I think I was famous for walking on eggshells. You're walking on eggshells or the people around you were walking on eggshells?

Starting point is 00:20:28 I don't know, come on. You know what I'm asking because to me. That's a good point. Is the idea of keeping the standards so high where the actor's coming and saying, oh shit, this is an, I gotta deal with him. I gotta be ready for it. And then you know he's gonna say something to upset you.

Starting point is 00:20:49 Who's, I never said do that on purpose unless something was going wrong. You know, for example, let's say an actress comes in and she's more concerned about. Ottawa, can you speak into the mic? She's more concerned about her, the way she looks and the way she doesn't give a damn about the movie or the other people, it's just her.

Starting point is 00:21:07 And when you have that kind of egocentric personality, you have to move away from that, you have to get more into the shadows. What will you say to that person? Well, you have to start dealing with that psyche, and that's not easy sometimes, because some people are very hung up on themselves. How much of it is private,

Starting point is 00:21:23 how much of it is public around everybody? You know something, that's a good question because usually it's, I keep everything private, but the crew feels it. The crew knows. In fact, sometimes the crew knows ahead of the director. You hear the words, you know, the ADs, they talk and the Kramer crews are very sharp.

Starting point is 00:21:41 They've been on a lot of movies. If the actress or actor is a dud They know it and they'll let you know it if He's just not up. He or she is not up to par. They'll let you know. It's an interesting thing that goes on dynamic But by the way, let me ask you this so you did Wall Street one the main cast is all in two, right? Money never sleeps. No, no, Darrell Hannah. No Sean Young Charlie just does a cameo Wall Street 1, the main cast is all in two, right? Money Never Sleeps. No, no, Darryl Hannah, no, Sean Young. Charlie just does a cameo in two.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Oh, you're right, Charlie just does a cameo, but he is in it at least, right? There is a cameo of him. How much when you were doing Money Never Sleeps, because the movie did so well, did you call Charlie or talk to him and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking about doing, what do you think about this? Or no, hey, Charlie, I'm doing this, I need you to do this.

Starting point is 00:22:30 Yeah, I just asked him and he was very friendly about it. Yeah, he was making a comeback at that time. Was he upset that he was not the guy playing in Wall Street? No, because he was a younger man. It was another kind of time, 20 years had passed. So he, in other words, Gekko was 60 something. Coming out of jail and Creed and all this stuff. He's coming up with his book launch.

Starting point is 00:22:51 It's another young man. And Zach and Josh Brolin was playing a key role. He was playing the Gekko role as a young man. Oh, I'm sorry. So that was a whole different ballgame. I was just upset they killed my character. Gordon Gekko's son was killed off. And he had a daughter. He replaced the son with a daughter.

Starting point is 00:23:11 You were in it? No, so I was Gordon Gekko's son in the original. That's right, that's right. And the son is supposed to have killed himself in the original. That's right, that's part of the story. Did that kind of like, hey, what's up, dad? What's the story all about?

Starting point is 00:23:24 If you're like Gordon Gekko as a father, you might kill yourself too. Yeah. I think he... Yeah, I'm looking at this. He... But... As a great cast in Franklin Gale, I have to say played an old tycoon. He was perfect.

Starting point is 00:23:36 By the way, I love Josh as well. Josh was great. Josh is phenomenal. And Michael is always underrated, but he was really good in the movie. So the reason why I asked this question, did you watch Gladys and the Little Mermaid? I love Josh as well. Josh was great. Josh is phenomenal. And Michael is always underrated, but he was really good in the movie. So the reason why I ask this question,

Starting point is 00:23:49 did you watch Gladeater 2? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I did. What'd you think about it? I had empty calories feeling. It's certainly watchable. It's good, well made, Ridley film,

Starting point is 00:24:01 but I didn't care about the people and I wasn't invested. Your comparison of one versus two. Oh, one was a classic. Two is empty calories, like a commercial product. I was so upset after watching two. I was so upset. My wife's like, babe, give it a break. I said, no, babe.

Starting point is 00:24:25 You know why? Because I don't think, I'm not in the world to know it, but with the risk of after you make a movie that's a 10 to come out and do another one, and to me, they show that it was the biggest movie Denzel's ever done money-wise. I think it was a quarter of a billion dollars

Starting point is 00:24:43 or whatever the money made. I saw the numbers. But I gave was a quarter of a billion dollars or whatever the money made, I saw the numbers. But I gave it a six and a half at best. Well, because you're a gladiator yourself, you're powerful and you probably didn't like the physique of the guy as much. I just, the whole, the story was okay, but there was something about it.

Starting point is 00:25:01 And the reason why I'm asking this question, because did you see the clip of Russell Crowe being asked about Gladiator 2 and what he said? Have you seen this or no? Please tell me neither one of you guys have seen this. Okay, so then I wanna get the raw reaction from you. Can you pull this up, Rob? Can you pull up the one I sent you?

Starting point is 00:25:18 I texted you the clip. If you can play this clip. He's being asked about Gladiator. This one guy says He's doing a reaction on Russell Crowe's Question about it and Russell says oh my god They better start paying me because you know I'm being asked so much about this movie And I'm not even in the movie and and the and the question was right here if you can play this clip

Starting point is 00:25:41 And then I'll just get to it go for drop Ask Russell Crowe about Gladiator 2. They should be f***ing blaming me for the amount of questions I've had to answer about the f***ing film that I'm not even in. Ridley Scott recently wrapped filming for his Gladiator sequel starring Paul Meskul, Denzel Washington, and Pedro Pascal. Meskul plays a grown-up Lucius from the first film. And let's just say Russell Crowe doesn't have anything to do with the sequel and doesn't want anything to do with it. I don't know anything about the cast. I don't know anything about the plot. Well, I wouldn't, would I? Because I'm dead.

Starting point is 00:26:10 I have no idea what they're doing. And it's got nothing to do with me. In that world, I'm dead, six feet under. That's that. I was in Malta recently. We did a concert there. And I looked across to Fort Recarceli and the Coliseum's built there again, like it was in 1999.

Starting point is 00:26:25 It was like a time warp. For a couple of seconds there, I was like, what year is this? I wasn't expecting that they would rebuild the Coliseum in the same place. I admit to a certain tinge of jealousy. If Ridley has decided to do a second part to that story, he will have really strong reasons. The movie comes out right around Thanksgiving. So you can't buy it.

Starting point is 00:26:43 So what do you think about his response? Whose response? Russell's. I think he's very diplomatic. Have you ever worked with Russell? No. Why? Would you want to?

Starting point is 00:26:59 If the part was right, why are you barking up this street for? I'll tell you why, I'll tell you exactly why. The reason why I'm asking this question, Oliver, is because for me, like, Gladiator is a top 50 movie of all time, my opinion, in my opinion. You can go and debate movies,

Starting point is 00:27:21 it's all in the eye of the beholder. You know how this works, like, hey, that's my type, she says, your type. You talk to Mary, I'll talk to Jennifer. We're scored away, right? And for you to make the movie, is it normal when a movie is this big of a hit to not even talk to Russell and say, here's what we're,

Starting point is 00:27:39 I would have never expected anything to happen with Two without him not being asked about it. Or is that pretty normal? Where he's- expected anything to happen with two without him not being asked about it or is that pretty normal where he was dead so what he His character was dead. This is another it's it's all fiction. Anyway, there was no no nothing realistic I'm you in it though. Why don't you put something to like a did not a cameo like add flashbacks to the original They had moments where you see him in the original but there's he knew nothing about what's gonna happen with the movie though Would you have done it that way

Starting point is 00:28:05 or would you have done it two differently? Well first of all, I would have conceived a different script. But it's important, it's a new concept. It was all, that was the way it was created and maybe that's good. You know, what does the dinosaur film have to do with the previous dinosaur film?

Starting point is 00:28:23 Jurassic World. Jurassic World, what does that have to do with the previous dinosaur film dressics the rest Jurassic world Jurassic world What does that have to do with it? Why would you talk to the previous dinosaur? Well, I get I get what you're saying when you're saying talking to the previous dinosaur But if you if you watch Jurassic Park, I don't know if Jurassic Park Is tied to an actor that I emotionally was affected by. Well that's because you're a gladiator, that's the only reason, you know, you're a subject. But you don't see the movie,

Starting point is 00:28:50 so how do you watch the movie? How different does a guy like you watch a movie? I watch the whole thing. You watch the cinematography, you watch the- Everything, yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole experience, it's a life. No, I don't focus on one part aspect of it. Got it, so you just called me one dimensional

Starting point is 00:29:13 all over you hurt my feelings. Well, you're a businessman. I'm walking on eggshells around you now, right? So I just got the feeling of the stories you tell. But for you, just out of curiosity, what are your favorite movies? Like what kind of stuff do you like? I love movies. I love movies too. From your lens.

Starting point is 00:29:29 There's actually a few, three, four hundred. I mean, he knows I watch old movies along with new movies. So I mix it up and I get confused sometimes as to what I don't remember all the things I saw. Give me a list and I'll tell you. What have you watched the most? The most? The most times. Over and over and over and over again? Sound of music, I know really you know there was there are old My fair lady there's hundreds of movies that are great. This is listen if we stop making movies now No more movies were made. I'd be fine. I mean I could there's enough there for the rest of time

Starting point is 00:30:01 now no more movies were made, I'd be fine. I mean, there's enough there for the rest of time, honestly. And also, I discovered old movies that I didn't see, which is a wonderful experience. And I think there's a, you know what, in the Renaissance, there's a period when they all talk about Italy and they all talk about Flemish paintings. That's what we're in. The movie business was that moment. We have those hundreds

Starting point is 00:30:30 and hundreds of paintings. We should enjoy them all. Right. I agree. But was there a flick where you guys... But that's the problem. That's what critics do. I don't want to do that. They say the ten best, the best. That's such a bullshit. That's not the question though. The question is what? Yeah, it is because you tend to narrow things down. People have to say, I saw that movie, but it's better than that one. And now, come on, just wake up. Enjoy the whole thing. Do you know what movie I watched like God knows how many times that nobody would ever say it's

Starting point is 00:31:00 like one of the greatest movies of all time? Cock. I swear to God, cocktails with Tom Cruise. And what's his name? Is it the, not Christopher. Who's in cocktails? What's the other guy's name? Yeah, Brian Brown. Oh my God, he crushed it in that movie, right? The Barman Poet or whatever it was, you know.

Starting point is 00:31:24 Well, there's hundreds of those movies. I get that, but to me, that movie I watched in the Army probably 200 times. Like we literally at our unit watched. It was really an escape for you at that point. You know what it was, and maybe this is the part about the story because remember, what's the story of cocktails?

Starting point is 00:31:41 Cocktail, it's the story of this guy that's got a dream of one day being a business owner, right? And eventually, what does he do? He opens up Cocktail and Dreams, right? And the restaurant and all this other stuff. And then, hey, I bet you'll never spook me again. I bet I will. What's that? You know, these moments. But no one, cocktail is not on anybody's 100 list. I feel like taste is different than criticism, if that makes sense. Criticism is criticizing this movie or that movie versus,

Starting point is 00:32:10 now listen, I can watch a movie like that simple over and over again. I love it. As Sean, he grew up in the 1980s. Ask him what you remember, you saw it 20 times. Well, in the 80s, I mean, the 80s, to me, I still go back to. If I just feel like, you know what,

Starting point is 00:32:24 I just want something fun. I love the 80s, I mean, the 80s to me, I still go back to. If I just feel like, you know what, I just want something fun. I love the 80s as a decade, right? Because they started to mix genres in a way where it's comedy, it's adventure, right? It's sci-fi, they get back to the future, right? What genre is that? It's almost a perfect film, but like you said,

Starting point is 00:32:40 it's not gonna win best picture. And yet it's one of the most classic. And a lot of the most classic films that we think and we want to watch every year. You know, whether it's Wonderful Life in it, I don't think Wonderful Life won Best Picture. What did it do well when it opened? What are some of the films that did less well in the

Starting point is 00:32:56 80s? You loved Countless, countless. What was the horror film? Lost Boys, the Monsters The Lost Boys. Right. I mean the horror films that you love. I mean, too many, I saw them all when I was young. Candyman. Yeah, Candyman was fun.

Starting point is 00:33:11 That's why I think when you ask about films, I always say to people, what's your favorite experience in your life? What's your favorite moment in your life? Go back in your life. Because I think that's it. It's like a film is a moment, an experience that you have.

Starting point is 00:33:24 Maybe it's with the people you watch it with, right? Sometimes it's the date you're on or just the experience of, oh wow, that brought me to, I was in the dumps and I watched that movie or I remember being in high school and waiting for Friday night to go see American Pie because it was like gonna take me out of this experience

Starting point is 00:33:41 and take me somewhere else. So you can't really say this is better than that. They're just moments in our lives. Oh, I fully agree. I agree. Like to me, it's the, you know, moments of like Rocky IV. I can't, you know why I watched that movie so many times? My mother's side, they were communists.

Starting point is 00:33:59 They were all part of the today party. Today party back in the days, you may know the today party from back in the days, they were communists. My dad, imperialist. So watching Rocky, you know, is mom and dad. Can communists and Americans come together, right? Can these two guys find a way to, didn't happen,

Starting point is 00:34:16 they got married and divorced twice, to each other, right? But there's a story to it, so for me, Rocky IV, I watched it in Iran in Farsi. Think about how Rocky sounds speak in Farsi, right? Because that's how when you would buy, the guy would sell it to you with a guy that speaks Farsi. No, I agree with you. 80s to me, not only some of the best movies,

Starting point is 00:34:37 but I think 80s is also days of thunder. You know, 80s music, 80s music is the best. I think it's the best decade of music period. I'm with you on that. So maybe, let me go a different angle here, question-wise, for you guys. Yeah, Oliver. Sports, are you a sports guy?

Starting point is 00:34:54 Do you like sports? Okay, Sean, are you also sports? You're a big guy yourself. I told you, he was watching football on the day I was born. We know he, 49ers. Is it just football or is it all sport? Baseball, like baseball. Okay is it all sport? All sport. Okay, so you know when you talk about guys

Starting point is 00:35:09 that play two sports, Brian Jordan, Dion Sanders. Yeah. You know, you got a few of these, Bo Jackson, right? You got like a handful of these guys that did both and they did pretty well. Dion's probably one of the better ones that was able to. Michael Jordan tried it. Michael Jordan tried it, but Dion actually succeeded.

Starting point is 00:35:25 Dion was great. Dion was great in both. Braves and all the stuff that he did. But the question is, in movie, is it a different sport to go from making movies to making documentaries, or is it the same sport? Well, it's the same process in a sense. Documentaries are very important to me, and I did 20 of them or 15, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:35:50 But the reason is that it brings you back to the research world, the real world, the world that you're actually dealing with people who are live, and you're getting in touch with that aspect of yourself. Whereas if you live on a stage or live with a fictional film, it's another world. It's artificial and you're constantly trying to create realities. So it's a real challenge. That's why it's important to stay in touch with the real world. And a lot of Hollywood people do not.

Starting point is 00:36:21 I mean, the reason I'm into contemporary events, you know, you look at the films I did in the last 20, World Trade Center, W, the film of George Bush, I stayed current. I wanted to know what was going on. And the last one was Snowden. I was right on the, we did it on the cusp of what happened. And it was very important to me to know what was going on in computers at that point. I don't regret that

Starting point is 00:36:45 You know, they may not have done as well because the American century changed After 2001 we became another animal, you know and that affected the culture and the appreciation and the generation changed and a new generation came along who didn't know the same things at the 1980s and 70 new generation came along who didn't know the same things as the 1980s and 70s generation. Yeah. Think about it that way. Is that fair to say that you're an anomaly for that? No, I think I cared about events that were going on around us. And when I see some of the treatment of the current events, Hollywood doesn't care. They don't base their films on that. They don't

Starting point is 00:37:24 want to reflect reality necessarily. They want to. Yeah, they'd love to get the money from it. But it's a creation of fantasy, too. And the films don't deal with the American century. What did America become after 2001? You have to add those films don't really deal with it. It's it's another more

Starting point is 00:37:45 imperialist more authoritarian more patriotic more sold military militaristic I mean come on that has to be reflected in movies maybe gladiator reflects that but maybe it does but is it common for for guys at your level, there's only a handful of you guys to do movies and to do docs. That's why I mean, is that a multi-sport thing? I mean a lot of Hollywood directors, producers, we never talk about current events because I don't get any sense of interest in it. We always talk about artificial stuff, which is fun sometimes.

Starting point is 00:38:22 I think it talks about movies. That's another world. Documentaries as a whole, I've gotten so much introduction of the world through documentaries, through meeting Chavez and Castro, meeting the Israelis, meeting Putin, and nuclear energy. And that was not about a person. That was about an issue.

Starting point is 00:38:44 Come on, that was a very difficult movie for me to make. All I talked to was Sinus. Just to your question of different sport, I would say acting and directing would be like playing two sports, right? Because they're very different ways of being. Documentary to film, it's just a different medium. Documentary is a different way of making a movie and telling a story, but it's still the same fundamental principles right you're either setting up cameras your actors are you're either your participants you know we're at like reality show style or interview style you're sitting down you're talking to someone you're. You're feeling okay what's the tempo is boring that to cut away to something else where the visuals coming from right. You know am i going to archives are my shooting so it the same principle of storytelling it's just maybe the budget generally the budget is nowhere near what you get with the

Starting point is 00:39:29 film you don't have to stage everything it's a little bit different but the same principles of storytelling apply and there are films that you know can apply them the documentary style or the mockumentary style right and make that bring that that that tempo to it and likewise you can bring cinematic style to documentary so So I think they're just there are many different languages. And it's like you go to film school and you watch some of these things and you're like, man, you know, the Maya Deren types and the Braxton Brackage and things like this. And, you know, there's many

Starting point is 00:39:56 others. They're, they're not necessarily the most entertaining films, but it just shows you how film you know, how do you say we've Hollywood has created a certain style, for the most part, right, that's larger than life. And, you know, goes back to, let's say, you know, the epics of Griffith and whatnot, Gone with the Wind. But if you go across the world, there's many different styles of storytelling that from a Hollywood perspective would come across as boring, but might resonate more

Starting point is 00:40:23 with a more documentary approach like a like an Oso or someone like this, you know Japanese approach to storytelling that might be a little bit more like day in the life and a little bit more focused on on Nuance that maybe a documentarian would be interested in as opposed to a Hollywood filmmaker, right? There's different approaches to that same It's still storytelling. It's just different ways of telling. Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to find out like, you know, Justin Timberlake is a triple threat. He can sing, act, and, you know, dance. You know, when they talk about that, right?

Starting point is 00:40:53 Those are different skill sets. I don't know if Denzel can dance, and I don't know if Denzel can sing. So, okay, maybe he's not in that sense a triple threat, right? That's what I'm saying at this level is it, I'm just making movies, I'm not doing documentaries. Okay, for me to go do both is not common at this level. That's why I thought, I mean, I'm asking the question about whether it's two separate sports to be played. And Oliver, what gets you to say I wanna make this movie,

Starting point is 00:41:21 or I want to, what is the first spark that I wanna write about this? I wanna go pursue this and maybe even do a documentary on it. What's the first spark that gets you interested? So often it's the importance of it. You know, like to me nuclear energy was very important because we're facing climate change. If you accept that, are we going to do? Are we providing the solution and if you study the issue and really study it and talk to people you you have to doubt The conventional idea that we're going to be saved by renewables. So first thing that comes up people say what are we doing?

Starting point is 00:42:00 We're still have why are we not improving? Why are the fact, why is the carbon dioxide still the same? After all these renewables, after all the trillions of dollars we've spent. Look at Germany. I mean, the whole concept of going to nuclear was caused by that because we have to wake up and we don't. And that's why you have to make something because this is urgent. Look at that poster. There's not a person, not a face on it, right?

Starting point is 00:42:26 That poster, it's not necessarily, it's a look like a Walt Disney Space picture or something. I'm not gonna run out and see that. That's the problem. But again, so what got you to wanna do that? Because I had to. Because we're all gonna fry. You're gonna, I don't wanna be walking around, I don't want him to walk around and you know burn up. It's gonna be very tough

Starting point is 00:42:49 Unless we deal with this energy issue. I don't there has to be solutions everyone's thinking to the future There's gonna be a solution. We're gonna figure it out. Well, we got to get serious now back then You may not agree with me a lot of people people don't, but my God, I think it's a burning issue of our day. Beyond Ukraine, beyond Joe Biden and Donald Trump. This is a real, real significant issue. Look at the figures. This is disgusting. Right. This is why, Rob, this is US nuclear power capacity additions by your initial operation. Don't go by the US, you should go by China or Russia. That's a good point. So China and Russia is a different story. But this is for us, right? So for you

Starting point is 00:43:35 that did the documentary, do you have the other one as well, Rob, that we went away from it for a while, whether you want to call Trump or whatever the reasons are. Well, because of the all the fear, it was a fear that drove Whatever the reasons are. Well, because of all the fear. It was a fear that drove us away from it. So what did you learn at the end of the documentary? Among other things is that the fear was ridiculous because there was none of those accidents really added up to anything compared to the other

Starting point is 00:43:58 waste products of other energies such as gas and oil and coal. This is the one that answers your question for you. Construction starts of nuclear reactors in the world. It's depressing. other energies such as gas and oil and coal. This is the one that answers your question for you. Construction starts of nuclear reactors in the world from 51 to today. The orange is China. From 95, if you look at 85, 89, you barely see one or two in China and other countries. Majority of those are us.

Starting point is 00:44:20 And then when you come to the last 10 years, majority it is China right last 20 years and the rest of the world Isn't doing anything. Well, they are doing new countries are coming into it. Yeah, Russia is selling is doing a very good job of constructing Reactors abroad in other countries. They're selling the product China is doing it and they're also devised They're working very hard China and Russia have SMRs, which are the small modular reactors. They have them. The United States is still working on it. We're way behind. But I do believe we'll come up with a design for an SMR

Starting point is 00:44:55 that will be accepted through our regulation process, which is tedious and costs, that's why it costs so much. We don't approve anything. It's like a bad business, right? We're choked. That's why it costs so much. We don't approve anything. It's like a bad business, right? We're choked. We don't allow new stuff unless it's fancy and has a purpose. It's just very hard to get new designs in.

Starting point is 00:45:16 We have to change our ways. And I think the SMRs, well, hopefully, will be there by 2030, hopefully. I know Westinghouse is working on one, and General Electric. They have good stuff coming. What do you think about China investing in nuclear reactors? China is great. Great. They're doing so much in terms of building new, not only nuclear reactors, but they're

Starting point is 00:45:36 building, I lament their use of coal still. Yes, that's very evil. But they are doing better and better and better and they're amazing, some of their buildings, amazing, they're the future. You're saying China's the future? It looks like it. They're doing the best, most modernistic work. And I have high hopes for the rest of the world.

Starting point is 00:46:03 If you go to these, your countries, go out there to the stands gone to that. You know I just I did a documentary about Kazakhstan it's amazing place. It's very future thinking the whole new generation building things creating new cities It's interesting when you're going into some like this, because for me, it's getting into a business. We run nine companies. So, all right, so nine companies. How do you get into this company?

Starting point is 00:46:33 You find a problem and then you look for the solution on how you would fix it that's maybe different than others, and then what demo are people not in, and then maybe use a certain strategy, blue ocean strategy, that, hey, they're not in? And then maybe use a certain strategy, blue ocean strategy that, you know, hey, they're not in this market or whatever, and then you make the adjustments. In a movie sense, what is that process? What is the process of doing a movie

Starting point is 00:46:56 or doing a documentary? Is it, let me see what story hasn't been told, or is it, man, I like the story, I'm gonna write a script. What's that process of starting a business because each movie I remember sitting down with Aaron Spicer said each movie is a business that's right you're not you got to look at every movie as a business right yeah so what is the process of saying the next business I'm gonna build is gonna be Wall Street the next business we're gonna build is gonna be XYZ what is that process that's the way

Starting point is 00:47:24 you think and that's the way you think. And that's what movies are a bad deal. I mean, every time you have to make a new business every few years, it just doesn't work. You know, you make a movie and they don't accept it, they don't understand it. It's ahead of its time, behind its time, whatever. It's not that easy, you know. So you spend two, three years of your life making a movie.

Starting point is 00:47:43 I don't think it's an economic business. I wouldn't go into it for that reason. So you spend two, three years of your life making a movie. I don't think it's an economic business. I wouldn't go into it for that reason. You go into it as an artist and you're frankly, I want to make this, my passion is here. It's the most important thing in the world to me right now, and blah, blah, blah. But there are people that look at it just as a business, and they're very mercenary, and they just take whatever the gig is. And I think that's the really hard thing to navigate. I mean Scorsese always said he did one film for himself and one film for Hollywood. It's like a compromise.

Starting point is 00:48:20 One film for himself and the art. Right, that's what he said at least. Interesting, would you agree with that? Like that format? No, it didn't work for me. It doesn't work for me because you have to have a certain, he does what he does, you have to admire him. He was my teacher at NYU. Of course he is. He's lasted this long and he's great.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Listen, he's made his deal, he's found his way. Your disagreeable man is the feeling I get, which is needed to be a strong man. That's a compliment, I don't say that in a, the only reason you would be willing to do, you know, entertain these documentaries or movies is because you don't give a shit what the market thinks. Well, you're trying to find out

Starting point is 00:49:03 what you're interested in. My impression of it. I follow in my heart. Yeah, that's exactly the point. So to me, one of the qualities of an alpha male is that you disagree, you debate. You're like, no, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think that's the right way to go about it.

Starting point is 00:49:19 So when you did go through Scorsese and you're learning from whoever it is, were you at any point as a young man coming to want it again in this space? I don't know if I agree with that. I wouldn't do it that way. Did you have those moments as a young man in his class? Not that, no, because I was learning the trade.

Starting point is 00:49:36 I was paying attention. How about later on? Well, no, his dad used to say, right, your daddy used to always come out of the movie and say we could have done it better, right? And so your dad kind of put that into your mind of starting to think about maybe how you would have done a film differently.

Starting point is 00:49:49 Yeah, my father would always talk about, we could have done it better, meaning there was something wrong with the hole in the movie and the hole in the story, the logic of it. But then you become too logic-ridden, and sometimes that undercuts you. And that's happened to me. I made films so, in a way, they wound themselves into a knot

Starting point is 00:50:10 by the third act and then you gotta get out of the knot. So, your father, you're talking Lewis, your grandfather Lewis? Lewis. Okay, so I just looked it up right now, he passed away March 16th, 85. Right. Next year it'll be 40 years. What movie did he get a chance to see?

Starting point is 00:50:31 Did he get a chance to see anything, any of your work, or no? Not the features, you saw The Hand, my horror film, and Seizure, my first film out of NYU. Yeah, no, but I had written Midnight Express, so he knew that I was on my way in that business, and I'd written Conan and my screenwriting stuff. He did a cameo on Scarface. Really?

Starting point is 00:50:57 Oh, he did, yeah, that's right. Walking by down the street here in Miami. When did Scarface come out? In Miami, yeah. 83? Did he watch Scarface? Yeah, yeah, sure yeah. 83? Did he watch Scarface? Yeah, yeah, sure he did. What did he say about it?

Starting point is 00:51:07 He got a kick out of him. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, because my dad was, you know, he was an economist. He was very much a Wall Street man. But even at the end of his life, he started to, his conservatism was vanishing. He said at the end of his life, he said, you know, we made a big deal about Russia all my life. It was a thing of the Cold War. It was a really big deal. He scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.

Starting point is 00:51:53 So by the end of his life, by the late 70s and early 80s, you know, after the Reagan... Well Reagan, it's true, he was in the middle of the Reagan era, but even Reagan started to let up after the near scare of Abel Archer in 1983. We had a near nuclear war with Russia. It was ridiculous. It was out of fear. And after that, if you remember, Reagan and Gorbachev got together in 1986 and started the whole process of detente, which we'd forgotten about, but we almost had a moment when we banned nuclear weapons completely from the

Starting point is 00:52:31 earth. That almost happened. They'd reached a friendly moment when Reagan was a very affable man that way. And he said, why not? He said, why not? Why don't we get rid of them? And then, of course course the guys on his spot That's my father and the guys behind him said no you can't do that you can't but George Schultz was on in favor of that

Starting point is 00:52:53 He was a Secretary of State at that time So it's possible. I mean we can think differently, but we sometimes we we close up into our balls of fear Did you did you ride Wall Street based on stories he would tell you from Wall Street or no? No, that was based on the fact that we had all those scandals and those young people were starting to make money, you see. My dad was the old Wall Street.

Starting point is 00:53:15 I pictured that in the picture with Hal Holbrooke and the father figure of Martin Sheen, who was the union leader. The younger crowd was amoral. A lot of them were like into the business. People were making big money. I mean, I don't know if you remember, 83, 84, 85, people were making millions of dollars at the age of 28, 29. That was outrageous.

Starting point is 00:53:39 We'd never even seen that kind of money before. Young people were supposed to, you know, you don't make big money until your 40s, 50s, right? That whole change. Yeah, and later on, the movie that a lot of guys watch that was, you know, form of Wall Street was Boiler Room, right, where the J.T. Marlin, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:54:00 I think that's what it was called. They quoted a lot of Wall Street. The J.T. Marlin or whatever, yeah. That's right, that's right. So this was a first time you know we got a chance to watch Vin Diesel on what he did you know no would whatever the call was Ben Affleck you know talking about his You know Ferrari. This is my house. This is my this. This is my dad It's a phenomenal movie

Starting point is 00:54:20 But it shows the world of penny stock and I think I even remember somebody saying this was depicting what Jordan Belfort did that later on ended up being the wall for Wall Street. I read that somewhere. I may be wrong. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, that was a penny stock crowd, but they were never mainstream. They were the side stream.

Starting point is 00:54:39 The people I'm talking about were mainstream. They were joining the mainstream, and they were controlling the stocks. We had those people. They were coming on. And if you look very closely at the whole, the Gordon Gekko types ended up being the banks by the 2010 period when I did Wall Street Money Never Sleeps because that was the idea is that the independent traders became this by 2010 had so gamed the system and so inflated the system that they were the new chiefs. What do you think about Joseph Kennedy? What about him?

Starting point is 00:55:15 I like him. I mean, he did amazing stuff. He created a clan. He nourished his kids to become leaders and he was a very good father in the end. He turned out to be a very good father. Did he ever inspire you to want to do a movie on him or a documentary on him?

Starting point is 00:55:32 No, what way to, no, he was the progenitor of a family. I admired John, as you know, and Robert very much, and Ted too, as well as the sisters. So wouldn't have interest in doing a movie like that? I'd love to see you do something on Joseph Kennedy. Why, why you? What angle do you think? Are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:55:54 Like if there's a, yeah, so if I ever wanted to get into, in two to five years we're gonna get into movies. Not right now. We're building this whole thing, we're gonna build the Burbank of East Coast here in Fort Lauderdale. We think that's a great market for it, right? Anyway, I suggest a book.

Starting point is 00:56:10 If you're interested in Joe Kennedy, there's a wonderful book, fiction, by Richard Condon, who wrote Manchurian Candidate. It's called Mile High. Is it on him? It's a wonderful book. It's about, yeah, it's about Joe Kennedy, but it doesn't, it's a fiction.

Starting point is 00:56:24 Fictionalized version. Mile generate. Yeah, it's about Joe Kennedy, but it's it's doesn't it's a fiction fictionalized version My oh my oh hi. What does it say Rob? Can you send that to me so I can buy I'm looking right now That's a great incentive to me. That'd be great wonderful story. Is it called? Seat of destruction or no no mile high. It's cool. I don't see mile high anyway But anyways if you find it send it to me Richard Condon CON DON Come on Rob you find it, send it to me. Richard Condon, C-O-N-D-O-N. Come on, Rob, you find everything. There you go. There you go.

Starting point is 00:56:49 Rob, if you can send that over to me, I wanna read that book. There it is. 1969, oh wow. Oh, there you go, yeah, send it over to me, that'd be great. So it's an older book that was written on it. What's wrong with that? No, I love it, I don't have any problem with that.

Starting point is 00:57:01 That's why you're here, I'm borrowing your wisdom. But Joseph Kennedy, why not, right? To me, like what is a bigger last name than the Kennedy last name? Who was the visionary behind it? The amount of stories of him sitting down with the kids at night, who's gonna be depressed, all these different things you hear about and you know, never wanted to get, get you know At least from the books I read Didn't want to give credit to the family that he came from a family of money where he wanted to kind of there's some Of those stories that comes out that you know he went to Harvard the president of a bank 28 years old Swanson I don't know I think it's a very interesting story

Starting point is 00:57:41 I think it's a very very interesting story. And it's got such a long lifespan that it's an 80 years into. That's hard for movies, remember that. I know, so you have to go like 20 years, right? You have to go like to see, is that kind of? No rule, no rule at all. But why are you saying it's hard to do it like that? Because of the span, the time span.

Starting point is 00:58:02 So then you can pick an era to go through, right? But you just limited it. If you're gonna make it, I trust you to do it. You gotta find your significant points that you wanna make. Yeah, I just think that guy is one of the biggest power players we had in America, and he'd be a very interesting guy to study. I think the new era doesn't know as much about him

Starting point is 00:58:24 to realize the impact he made. You know, there was a long period and he was on the outs. Roosevelt wouldn't talk. That's right. He was down on his luck. He couldn't get the impact he wanted. He became frustrated during the war. He wasn't respected. And then after the war he bounced back with his oldest son died, killed in an accident in war. And then his second son, he groomed belatedly for the presidency. He won the Senate, he won the House in 47, about 47.

Starting point is 00:58:55 And then Senator in 52, right? So he groomed John as his replacement. You don't want to do anything on him. It's a great story, but it's, I kind of, I know the story. I mean, I don't, the world doesn't know the story. There's another story about Kennedy I would like to sell. What's that? But they won't let me do that.

Starting point is 00:59:15 I can't tell you, that wouldn't be good. Well, listen, your thoughts with all these total amount of hours you put into the JFK assassination story, all the hours that you put into it. I'm not gonna give you a quick summation. There's this guy that just, I don't know if you've been following it closely, I'm sure you're very busy making movies

Starting point is 00:59:40 so maybe you're not following the news. There's this guy named Donald J. Trump that just became this guy, this thing they call an American. What do you mean I don not following the news. There's this guy named Donald J. Trump that just became this guy, this thing they call an American- What do you mean I don't follow the news? And Bobby is now involved. He's got a pretty heavy job, right? Yeah, I know Bobby.

Starting point is 00:59:55 Do you think, since his involvement being in there, we're finally gonna get to the bottom of the CIA documents to see what really happened? Yeah, possibly, well, there's no bottom to it because the CIA doesn't put that stuff on paper. But there are a lot of files on people in the CIA at that time, such as James Angleton. That was the big place to start. That's the counterterrorism chief of all those years. James Angleton, you've ever heard of him? A very important figure.

Starting point is 01:00:22 And you have to go into him to begin. And then there's other people like Bill Harvey and Phillips, David Atlee Phillips. There's Howard Hunt. There's the other guy, Joe Anides, George Joe Anides. Those guys you should track. And they've done nothing. The CIA's done nothing to cooperate with any official. They've been the most hidden organization ever. They've only one time if they've been examined and that was in Frank Church's committee of 1973-4. Frank Church, great, great, great senator. One of the, and they found a nest of evil that was so intense with so many assassinations,

Starting point is 01:01:01 sabotage against America's interests, against America's interests. And they told us the whole time it was for our interest. We killed people who ended up being heroes and we paid the price. I mean, we're paying the price now in so far as we have, we have no idea what's our own history. Well, I mean, no idea about, we've thwarted history and we're aiming, we're going towards

Starting point is 01:01:24 a very dangerous moment right now, but that's another discussion completely. You know about the forces involved in the coup against the Shah in 79. I mean, 78-79, that time period, right? You saw it. I have my impression. I want to know which one you think. Which direction are you going? Oh, I think it was a coup. I think the US and British wanted to see him go. I agree. I think he was too independent and powerful and they... I don't know if it came at the moment. Well, they put him there in the first place. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he didn't become too independent and powerful for their taste. And I think that... I don't know if it happened at the moment they discovered he had cancer,

Starting point is 01:02:00 which was I think like 75, 6. They said, okay, he's weakening, we got to replace this. But I would say that the arc of crisis story, remember the arc of crisis that Huntington and Brzezinski were talking about in the late 70s of this idea of radical Islam, they were already perpetuating the notion of clash of civilizations at that time. And it's not just, you know, saying there's a clash of civilizations between Orthodox Christianity and Islam. They were pushing for these rifts, as in Lebanon, as in, well, not Syria at that point, but in Iran in particular, I think the fact that Khomeini was being protected in the West is very indicative, and that the BBC was broadcasting his messages from, you know, all of his messages being

Starting point is 01:02:44 broadcast by the BBC in Iran is indicative because that's intelligence. That's how it works. It doesn't just work with a guy going in coup, you know, coup. There's different dimensions to it. You've got to prepare the population. You've got to, you've got to put money towards this. You've got to make sure that you fly the guy in and say, okay, now he's your new leader. I mean, they knew who Khomeini was, you know how crazy it was to send them back, right? Twice in exile, you know, living in France, Paris, making tapes that

Starting point is 01:03:13 they're spreading all over Iran, spreading the message. Very, very interesting what happened with that. And the Shah had the 25 year old agreement that they had from 54 to 79 that was expiring. So these guys had a meeting because they knew when it, he was about to be a very, very powerful man. And that was a concern of theirs, what happened there. But I wonder like some of these, for you, like do you have selfish reasons on things? Like even right now, it just happened where I said, I can't find a book. And I just go, mile high, Richard Condon,

Starting point is 01:03:51 can you go look it up? He looks at it and says, here we go, we found it. You have the element of doing a doc to say, I was right. This is what happened. All the criticism that they write about whatever you make. Is there a desire for you to see, get to the bottom of JFK? Like, is there... Of course. Of course.

Starting point is 01:04:10 Well, it seems like we have already accumulated such evidence. Prima facie, it seems. How can you deny it? How can you deny it? And especially now they were going through so much revelation on, so conspiracies left, right. This is what the world is. It's like been working that way. The United States has been working duplicitously for years to create this empire that we have,

Starting point is 01:04:36 that we deny that we have. We have 800 bases, we're all over the world. In every single spot, we have our finger everywhere. And we're stirring this constantly. We're busy like malevolent dwarfs. But we're there everywhere. And what concerns you about that? We're heading towards a nuclear war with...

Starting point is 01:04:58 We created enemies that are not necessary. That's what mostly affects me, because if we blow up this thing, it'll be like that scene on the beach when Fred Astaire says, I don't know how it started. It'll be like that. But I know how it started, because it started here.

Starting point is 01:05:16 These people who are running Washington right now, these neo-conservatives that are in charge, are most dangerous people we've ever had in the world. They're the antithesis of what America was about. Antithesis. Who? Who? Who?

Starting point is 01:05:31 Well, it's, I would say, right now in this time period, it goes back to the 1990s when they formed up. But before that, it goes way back to the 1940s. Before that, to the 1990s. Right now it would be, you know, goes way back to the 1940s, before that to the 1919s. Right now it would be, you know, the Biden administration is playing with fire. They've taken this thing to the edge with Russia. They're now the neocons?

Starting point is 01:05:54 They're the new, the liberals are the new neocons. How weird is that? Yeah, isn't that so bizarre? How weird is that, Oliver, for you? The real liberals, people who are really into liberalism, like me, who care about it, the John Stuart Mill kind, are disgusted by these people who are saying they're pro-war, they're pro-interference in other people's affairs.

Starting point is 01:06:17 They're trying to tell people how to live. That's not the way Mr. Mill described liberalism. Leave them alone. Let live and let live is our, is my philosophy. And get along with your neighbors. What's going on now is Mr. Blinken and Sullivan and all these people that are in the administration are very dangerous people because they pushed this thing with Ukraine to a place where it had no American interests at stake, none. But Mr. Biden, without a mandate, declared that we have to weaken Russia, without a mandate.

Starting point is 01:06:55 He didn't put it up for voting. He said, do you want to go to war with Russia? Do you want to have American missiles flying into Russia? This is outrageous. It never would have happened. You realize in Kennedy's time, it would have been a declaration of war. That's what's going on without our knowing it. We're asleep to that.

Starting point is 01:07:12 Because they... it's like boiling the frog. They take it up, you know, inclin... a little inclined by incline. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel for you, because the documentary you did with all the presidents been, this is, Sean, as a guy in this documentary,

Starting point is 01:07:31 you have Steve Bannon, Cash Patel, right? You have Roger Stone, you have... Tucker. Tucker. You have a bunch of Giuliani. Flynn. Flynn. Flynn, okay, you got all these guys where the media would say, Sean, what are you doing talking to all these conspiracy theorists? They're all maga and all this other stuff for you and they went through this.

Starting point is 01:07:59 What was it for you going through it as a director at the beginning with the level of skepticism you had when you're hearing about election interference, election for all this other stuff, did you go personally yourself as a director in evolution from the beginning to the end on Trump, your impression of Trump? Well, so 2015, 16, I started working for RT America, right? That was in the DC based group that had Chris Hedges,

Starting point is 01:08:24 the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. It had Tom Hartman, a leftist progressive guy, Jesse Ventura, Larry King. We had a lot of really interesting journalists, right? And we were a dissident because at that point, as you know, the media is controlled. I've understood this since I was seven years old, being know, being in JFK, watching the fallout from JFK, seeing the media reaction to JFK, how, you know, how it was dismissed by the mainstream media. Obviously, some historians got it, but a lot of the mainstream never accepted that narrative, right? They said it's a great film, but it's bad history and

Starting point is 01:08:59 it's a conspiracy theory fantasy. So I understood from seven, eight years old that the media was lying to us. From the first Iraq war, through the Serbian war, through the second Iraq war, I knew all this stuff. I was watching it. I literally would try to tell people. So when I got a chance to work for RT, that was a way of actually having a platform for us dissidents to say things that were not acceptable on ABC, NBC, CNN, right? And they turned that in 2016, they demonized RT America into this Russian propaganda outlet. That was the, remember when they said

Starting point is 01:09:34 that the Russians interfered in the election, half of that report, which was only like 12, 13 pages, was about RT America. That was the Russian interference narrative in the Trump election was that RT America was pushing stories that they didn't like about fracking or Syria, whatever it was. And they're saying we interfered in the election. I'm sitting there going, we're Americans. We have the right to speak our free speech in this country. We can say what we feel and think. We're doing journalistic work. So I understood this plot, this idea that Russia interfering with the election

Starting point is 01:10:07 was so thin at that point in 2017 that after the election they released the ICA focusing on RT America. And I go, where's the Russian collusion there? What do the Russians do? Did they hack into our election machines? There's no evidence of them hacking into our election machines to switch votes.

Starting point is 01:10:26 So what does that mean to say they interfered in the election? It's one of those CIA kind of words, you know, interference, Russian interference, misinformation. These are all CIA words that they put out there to confuse people. So at that point, I didn't pay attention. Do you know that because you and your dad always talk about this stuff and you've been curious about this topic or through investigating it, you're like, this is the CIA words they use, the CIA. Yeah, I mean, I wrote a book on the New World Order.

Starting point is 01:10:55 I remember that. It was my college thesis. I did conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura as a host. I did buzzsaw as a host for many years before RT. So I've been familiar with history and untold history of the United States. His docuseries, I worked as an editor many years before RT. So I've been familiar with history and untold history of the United States, his docuseries. I worked as an editor for a year on.

Starting point is 01:11:10 I contributed ideas about some of the angles and points for it. So a lot of this is just my background. So again, when I saw the Russian collusion narrative in 2016 for Trump, I liked Trump coming in because I liked the fact that he was an outsider. I thought it was Bush, Clinton, or, you know, we're stuck in this rigged game. And someone came in who said, hey, Putin, why don't we get along with Putin?

Starting point is 01:11:35 You know, we can talk, we can work with them, we can negotiate. I said, good for him. As soon as he said that, the whole Russian narrative starts to boil over in the media and everyone starts saying, you know, he's a Russian puppet. So I didn't pay attention in 2016 to 2020. I didn't really pay attention to the whole allegations against the Papadopoulos and Manafort and Parter-Page and Flynn and Roger, even though I knew Roger, I just didn't pay attention to it because I felt like, okay, this is going to boil over. There's nothing there. If there's anything really there, we'll, you know, it'll come out. this is kind of ridiculous, right? This is years going on, years of this accusations, you know, people like this idiot, Schiff, who's now our

Starting point is 01:12:14 senator, you know, out there saying there's Russian collusion and, you know, you just got to see it. With a certainty. Yeah. And there is proof. I don't know what word he used, but saying the fact that we have proof that there was collusion Yeah, and it's so embarrassing that this guy he should he should be like a McCarthy type, right? I mean should have been called out and said, you know what? You're an embarrassment He should know he should not be nowhere near Congress or Senate and the fact that in California elected him It just shows how brainwashed people are over there, right? It's pretty sad I mean McCarthy at least got to a place where he was making accusations and they couldn't

Starting point is 01:12:45 back it up and they basically said, you're done. This guy Schiff now wins Senate. It's disgusting. So Pelosi also would say things like that. It's certain with probability or something like she would say these things where it's like we know that the Russians probably interfere. They would use these words. But it worked though, if you think about it. It worked on so many people.

Starting point is 01:13:06 Yeah, yeah. So, but what did you learn at the end of it? You're spending time, Cash Patel is now got the head of FBI job, right? Steve Bannon, who strategically, that guy's brain, the amount of credit he gets on the right for being strategic, he's up there, right? What they did to most of these guys, now they're in there, right? What was it at the end for you? I'm assuming you didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020.

Starting point is 01:13:38 Is that a fair assessment? I voted for him in 2020. You voted for him in 2020? Because 2020 was very obvious what they were doing with the COVID to me. So when he lost, you voted for him in 2020. You voted for him in 2020? Because 2020 was very obvious what they were doing with the COVID to me. So when he lost, you voted for him then. Well, did he lose? I'm a believer that they rigged 2020.

Starting point is 01:13:53 Oh, you're from that camp. Oh yeah. Are you there as well? I'm in the middle, I don't know. But there was a lot of evidence on Sean's side. No, I think Rudy had good instincts, but he didn't have the time, he didn't have the, he's not, his forte is not, he's going after mafia.

Starting point is 01:14:13 He sees the conspiracy, but he's not an election guy. When it comes to election fraud, there are certain ways of presenting and there's certain evidence, and I think that, to this day we know a lot of these things have been buried, right? Let's be honest, whether it was it was certain districts and if you can look at it very simply you think 2020 wasn't a weird thing. Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, right? He won all the bellwethers.

Starting point is 01:14:38 He easily won except for the five or six states counties that's shut down for the night. easily won except for the five or six states, counties that's shut down for the night. And to me that's, you know, I go back to 2000. I didn't like the 2000 election because I felt like, you know, this is weird. The, the, the chads, right? It all takes as one county to throw a whole state, right? The same if you, if you, if you shut down elections and say, we're going to come back tomorrow and then the next day they get you know they basically have they know exactly how many votes they needed to overcome Trump's lead in those five six states and that's the

Starting point is 01:15:10 problem to me is when you stop counting and then come back the next day and well we got just enough to beat that lead that's suspicious right come on you got to say that doesn't add up to a logical person to say you would stop counting at any point, stop the observance at any point and then come back knowing how many points. It's like a football game where they say, we're going to two minutes to go, your team's up by two touchdowns, we're going to come back tomorrow. And then you come back the next day and you go, yeah, we scored three touchdowns last night.

Starting point is 01:15:42 Well, I didn't see it. Where was the observers? That's my problem with the 2020 election. If your friends from 10 years ago who were closest to you, hear you say something like that, would they say, yeah, Sean would say something like that? Or do you have anybody from 10 years ago that are like, Sean, stop it.

Starting point is 01:16:02 In 2004, a lot of people suspected that the machines were rigged against Kerry. There was articles written about that in Ohio. It was a very, very controversial state. Because people started questioning the voting machines back then. And many Democrats were the ones questioning it. All the way through 2018, you've got video in the Giuliani

Starting point is 01:16:20 episode of Kamala and all these people saying, you know, the voting machines right now, I can take you down there and show you how to hack these machines so why is it in 2020 we couldn't question the voting machines anymore or the or the issue of how much you think this is gonna backfire on the Democrats how it already did well I mean election for sure but that's that's one term right but do you think this is gonna be the types of an event that happened with Barry Goldwater 60 60-64,

Starting point is 01:16:45 where Democrats, Republicans lost the African American vote for decades and from 60, 64% of African Americans voted Democrat, the rest were conservative or independent. Four years later, it went from 60 to 92% voting Democrat and they got the black vote for 60 years. Do you think this was so monumental that Democrats may have had a blow to them that could last decades or you think it's just one term? I think Trump has the opportunity to create an historic presidency.

Starting point is 01:17:19 I mean the people around him, like we talk about Tulsi Gabbard in our series, we talk about Cash Patel, you talk about Bobby Kennedy, you know, and many others that are solid people with good instincts, right, that could transform our deep, they could fundamentally drain the swamp. Now, it's not going to be easy, but if they create the cultural shift, and I think it's there, a lot of people, that's why the red wave came in a way that even the popular vote won, people are sick of this system, right?

Starting point is 01:17:47 But the elections are key to me, and it's not about Trump versus Kamal or anybody. If we don't have a clear, like a blockchain style of transparency when it comes to elections, that's what scares me the most, is that we get to this place where you can rig machines, where you stop counting and say, we'll come back tomorrow.

Starting point is 01:18:07 We need to get a clear way of doing a trend of an election where it's like a blockchain, where you can see the results. Because I think there is suspicion, by the way, around some of the down ballot votes this year, to this day, in some of the states that, you know, there are questions. I think if you can have blockchain transparency, right, where it's like every vote is there, it's accounted for, you can go and you can check your vote and you can see where it, that's what we need to have as a modern society and all done in one day,

Starting point is 01:18:33 not over the course of a week or three months of voting. I mean, it's just gotta be really clear and simple. You know who doesn't want that? Democrats don't want that. Oh, I know, I'm saying, but now is the time to change it. If we don't change it, I'm very concerned about our freedom as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as I'm very concerned about our freedom as a Sean would you consider yourself an independent or libertarian? I'm independent. I don't I don't fall into any category. I consider myself a constitutional Republican I like the constitutional United States being a limited Republic being a limited federal government constitutional Republican. Yes, and

Starting point is 01:19:02 And Oliver, what would you say you are? Independent? Now with the world shifting as it is, I'm certainly independent, but I'm leaning back like my father to the Republican side. Because I'm disgusted with the Democrats, and they're a constant attack. Actually, it's all their extremism of their attacks on Trump that have turned me off.

Starting point is 01:19:25 The extremism of their attacks. Such as? What are you talking about? Everything he said was- I mean, I've seen it. In the newspapers they say falsely, he falsely says, or they constantly give him an adjective, which is unfair.

Starting point is 01:19:41 In other words, there's nothing objective written about him. And I saw Sean's documentary. It's wonderful, actually. One of the most affecting chapters is the one on Giuliani, who I did not like. Giuliani had reached that place because of his rah-rah patriotism in 2001. I thought it was disgusting.

Starting point is 01:20:00 He was overboard. I really did. When he was most popular is when I hated him, because I thought he was taking advantage of this thing. He was no longer a prosecutor, he was an opportunist. And what happened was that he actually makes sense in this documentary, his whole position makes sense. He explains himself, and it turned me around.

Starting point is 01:20:19 I said, you know, I understand. And now the newspapers are attacking him constantly like some kind of fraud. That's when I appreciate what he went through. You understand? It's like I'm a contrarian, I guess you could say. But it's good to have contrarians in our society. We need them. And I admire Sean, who is my son,

Starting point is 01:20:36 who's done this on his own. I have nothing to do with his thinking. He's read his own books. He's formed his own conclusions. I was very impressed with what he just said. He explained these elections in a very clear, logical way to me. And frankly, we've been interfering in Russia so many times.

Starting point is 01:20:57 I mean, Hillary Clinton is known for that 2006 period, the 2014 election, and they were all over Russia And here we don't we never judge ourselves We always say that's the the other side is doing we're known to rig elections It's like it's known the CIA has rigged elections abroad, right? We know that for a fact So it's so hard. Why is it so difficult for us to fathom the CIA? Having rigged elections abroad. I'll catch you could be involved. And it's the same chicken coming home to roost. Which raises, of course, the assassination attempts on Trump.

Starting point is 01:21:27 I don't know, man. It's so strange. What do you think about it? Is there a part of him that's skeptical about it? You have to be disturbed by it, and there's still time to go, you know? Look at all the damage that Biden administration is doing to Trump right now. I mean, they're putting them in the spot, you know? The problem is that they know Trump is a hothead and might... I think he's smarter now. I think he's a little bit...

Starting point is 01:21:49 But he's got to consider this as a threat to him. They want him to go to... They want to go to war or some kind of war. They trap him. Israel has blown up the Middle East, blown it up. It's just like they're remaking the Middle East. They're taking the... That's what they said they'd do. Netanyahu vowed to do this and he's done it.

Starting point is 01:22:08 Taking so many of these countries are out of commission now. And now Iran is the fucking next target of this guy, this madman, and we're in his pocket. We have no apparent say in what he's gonna do. Netanyahu. Yes, and AIPAC and all the Israeli mechanism that operates in the United States. Our vote, our Congress means nothing.

Starting point is 01:22:31 Netanyahu comes and addresses them three times. They stand up like dogs, clapping for everything he says, like dogs. It was disgusting, the most disgusting moment. There's a good, yeah, there's a good point that, you know, these wars in the Middle East, as Wesley Clark pointed out, it's basically the neocon agenda. And a lot of these neocons are dual Israeli citizens. And so it's like who has benefited? We were with Shimon Peres when he said the Iraq war benefits us.

Starting point is 01:22:56 He said that during the, I remember very clearly, he's like, secures our border against Saddam, right, on the Iraq side. The wars are all, you know, this, it's, as Jeffrey Sachs pointed out, this is all Israel's policy with the Middle East. It's almost like we've basically said, okay, whatever Israel wants in the Middle East will do, up and including the Syria thing, which I'm curious your position, but in the series we get into this,

Starting point is 01:23:21 how much, as we we know we supported creating these al-qaeda in Iraq and ISIS groups right jihadists which we did in Afghanistan by the way in the 80s and we did we've done it in Libya against Qadhafi which was insane right and we did the same thing now with Syria where again you know another terrorist group is now in charge I mean it's pretty wild to understand that we've been fomenting these jihadists against, going back to the days of Nasser, by the way. Actually, there's a long history.

Starting point is 01:23:50 I think Devil's Crusade is a good book on the topic about CIA sponsorship of Muslim brotherhood types and others against any nationalist, any Arab nationalist. And who does that ultimately benefit? Unfortunately, it is Israel because Israel hated Nasser, right? An Arab nationalist, it's not from the American perspective. Why do you think they're able to do that? Why do you think they're able to do that? Because the part about the dual citizenship, when you ask somebody who is a pro-Israel Zionist, they'll say, the reason why we have the dual citizenship is because when Israel

Starting point is 01:24:22 became a country, they want a lot of Americans to go back but they don't want to give up the US citizenship so they made it where you could have dual citizenship so that's the argument for that they'll say right? We have dual citizenship with France I mean I don't think there's an issue with dual citizenship the problem is that the loyalty that we find tends to be a Zionist approach and Israel itself is not to me it's like I don't have anything issue with Israel's existence but the Zionist approach and Israel itself is not to me. It's like I don't The issue with Israel's existence, but the Zionist position is oftentimes greater Israel But what I want to ask you is extreme what what because in order to be able to do that, okay, so

Starting point is 01:24:57 You're in a space where you know the controversy came out about Harvey right in Hollywood Harvey Weinstein. And for the longest time, you saw pictures of Michelle Obama, you know, Harvey Weinstein is such a, you know, I don't know if you have this clip or not, Rob, it's such a wonderful, you know, beacon of, I mean, she would use some words that you talk about a Billy Graham type, right?

Starting point is 01:25:24 Is that the one, Rob? Can you play this clip, you know? Go back and play the clip. Thanking Harvey Weinstein for organizing this amazing day. Harvey. Lower a little bit Rob. This is possible because of Harvey. He is a wonderful human being, a good friend, and just a powerhouse. And the fact that he and his team took the time to make this happen for all of you should say something not about me or about this person.

Starting point is 01:25:58 You see this, right? You see Oprah. You see all these guys in Hollywood. Hillary, all of these guys that would say stuff about, you know, Harvey Weinstein, what a fricking great guy, and then all of a sudden, why are people saying all this? What control does he have over everybody? You want a job in Hollywood, you want a job in this, you gotta go, no, no, no, no, no, and then disruption shows up, oh shit, now everybody wants to throw him under the bus.

Starting point is 01:26:21 What happened to those 30 years you said nothing about? What happened, because he had power and control control so this is where I'm going with it He had leverage the leverage was if you want a job you got to do xyz for me, and I'm a boss Okay, I'm not in the world. I've read about it. Just like what everybody else has read about if Israel is Israel APAC all of these guys, right? And, you know, Sachs, the interview that was done with Tucker, you know, that come, there's many of these right now that are coming up.

Starting point is 01:26:53 If they have this much power, what leverage do they have to be able to constantly negotiate more favorably for themselves over the American people? I think you have to think about it as a... It's like a club in a way, right? And the amount of financial influence. Think about the banking side of things. Think about the infrastructure of banking. A lot of this does connect to Judaism and it's not to say that you know that they're bad people but essentially that yes, there is a deep deep deep love and loyalty to Israel. It's interesting because we could be Israeli citizens based on our

Starting point is 01:27:38 ancestry. Our ancestry of Lew Stone is not Zionist. Our ancestry is much more cosmopolitan. And this kind of goes to the heart of a lot of the issues, I think, at the beginning of Zionism, where the cosmopolitan Jews who said, we want to assimilate into the cultures, right,

Starting point is 01:27:56 of Germany, of Europe, of America, and those who said we want a nation, a land. And I think that there is a psychological factor to Jewish people basically saying you have to give to Israel, you have to be part of Israel, you have to, that's your nation. Where did that happen though? That starts in the Zionist phase of the late,

Starting point is 01:28:16 but it picks up after World War I. Late, what were you gonna say, late? Well, late 1900s is the birth, right? But then it picks up after World War I, but not really. It becomes, remember the Zionists made deals with Nazis. The Zionists actually said Hitler was a good thing because they made a deal, various agreements, to start to move Jews because they wanted to take Palestine at the time that Palestine was mostly Arab, right? So they knew they were a small population.

Starting point is 01:28:40 They had to bring more Jews in from Europe. And so, I had to say it, but the Holocaust, they used that Holocaust to basically say, we can now create a state. And that was obviously the energy that was given by Russia and America and all the UN countries to say Israel cannot have a state. And by the way, you know what I'll say to that? So here's, I trust my enemies very well. By the way, I trust my enemies very well. By the way, I trust my enemies more than I trust my friends sometimes. You know why?

Starting point is 01:29:09 Because what does your enemy think about next movie coming up? I don't know the competitive space. I'm assuming there's competition with your name and all these other guys who are making movies, right? I'm assuming the competition, if they can find a way to have 7,500 negative reviews written on Rotten Tomatoes about a movie you come out with, I'm assuming the dirty enemy

Starting point is 01:29:33 would probably do something like that to hurt you, right? I'm assuming the enemy would do whatever they can that I'm trying to raise a billion dollars from somebody or half a billion dollars from somebody to find a way for that deal to not get done if it becomes public, right? I've experienced this with guys. When I was trying to sell my company, the enemy would call the guy that wanted to buy the company and say, hey, you sure you want to go through this? And then boom.

Starting point is 01:29:54 We were able to get the deal done and we sold it for a quarter of a billion dollars, okay? But I know, I trust the enemy. All I'm trying to ask, I'm not surprised that Israel did that. No. Good for them that that Israel did that. Good for them that they're doing that. I applaud you for being a good negotiator. Great, but all I'm asking is, if America, you read these books, and we've all read these books,

Starting point is 01:30:17 when you go through the book, the question I want to ask is, what leverage do they have for America to continue to cave when negotiating? We also want this, and this, and that, and this. Okay, okay, that's not how negotiation works. Like earlier we were talking about when you're signing a talent, right? Hey, I want six massages a day.

Starting point is 01:30:36 I want my gym to be here. I want that, I want this. No, at some point, we're not doing that. But what leverage does this person have for you to say yes to 80% of their requests? What are we getting in exchange to say yes to this? And no matter how many people I ask that question of. Well, I think there's a couple of factors. As I mentioned, financial. I think you do

Starting point is 01:30:56 have a lot of Jewish banking. We know that. That's historical. They're deeply tied into the banking system, including to the Federal Reserve. the Federal Reserve. I mean you look at even in Europe, the Rothschilds were the ones that got the letter from Balfour. I mean the Rothschilds obviously are a very wealthy influential family, right? And that's not the only one. There is the Warburgs and others that were very influential in building our Federal Reserve system here. So Schiff and you know all these families. So again, you're talking money, but you're also talking about a base. From strategic perspective, I think that the US and British saw Israel as a base into the Arab world, which I call Israel the last crusader, the crusader kingdom. Because remember, as you know, historically, we fought the West, a Catholic church, you know, sent crusaders out to try to recapture Jerusalem in 1095 and they did and then they got

Starting point is 01:31:46 kicked out a couple hundred years later, right, but they never forgave that. So I think that the Catholics and the West psychologically and militarily and historically actually see Israel as the crusader kingdom that gives them a foothold into the Middle East. So this is a thousand year war, and that's actually also how a lot of the Arabs see it, which is why people get caught up on the Jewish thing and they miss the point of the Arabs looking at it as the West trying to have a crusader kingdom called Israel in the Middle East.

Starting point is 01:32:17 And most, as we know, most of the Jews that are there are from Europe, right? They're from, you know, whether they're Kazarian or whatnot. So they're not from that land, at least maybe they were thousands of years ago, maybe they weren't, but the point is that this is an issue in the psychology of the Arab world, that the Crusades coming back to haunt them. I think that's a big issue and people don't look at it that way because they think of it as Jewish versus Muslim and I think it's much deeper because as

Starting point is 01:32:41 you know, the Jews and Muslims have gotten along. The Jews used to go to the Muslim countries when they were persecuted by the Catholics. When they were persecuted in Spain the Jews and Muslims both were persecuted in Spain and kicked out by Ferdinand and Isabel in 1492 when Columbus was sailing. They kicked the Jews and the Muslims out of Spain at that time. They kicked them out of, as you know, across Europe. Many times they purged them.

Starting point is 01:33:06 They would go to Muslim countries, Jews would. And they all lived together side by side in Palestine and obviously in Turkey and other countries. So it wasn't a Jewish Muslim thing. I think this is a West versus East thing, very much. I don't know if I disagree with that. But I think the question I ask is, the leverage, what leverage would have?

Starting point is 01:33:27 Is it just money? Is it really just money? You don't even mention APAC. But even if you go with that, right, and you look at how much APAC gives, for example, okay, and again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get to the bottom of the argument. You always do.

Starting point is 01:33:44 Yeah, and I enjoy that, I think that's the right advocate here to get to the bottom of the argument. And I enjoy that. I think that's the right way to be. But think about Elon Musk, right? Okay. So how much should AIPAC give total contribution 2024? Can you pull that up Rob? I actually don't know the number.

Starting point is 01:34:01 Total, what does that say? So pro-Israel, is this AIPAC? Two Republicans, they gave 2.2 million. Two Democrats, they gave 2.2 million. Okay. So total 4.4 million and they gave it to pro-Israel PAC candidates. So they give $29,000 more to Republicans than Democrats. Not a big difference.

Starting point is 01:34:23 But can you tell me, look up total, how much money AIPAC gave to everybody than Democrats. Not a big difference. But can you tell me, look up total, how much money APAC gave to everybody last year. Total money APAC gave, okay? In 2024. In 2024. Yeah, just tapping in 2024. Actually just wanna know, I guess you pulled the first one out, it's the same number.

Starting point is 01:34:44 Really, so the number is how much okay they give 2.4 million in lobbying the amount of contribution they got was 43 million dollars okay that's a pack by the way I thought the number was in the billions so 43 million dollars can you go type in how much Elon Musk gave Donald Trump to a PAC? Does this include the PAC expenditures or is PAC excluded from that? So watch this, Elon Musk spends $277 million to back Trump and Republican candidates. Republican candidates. Realistically, one could say that's 50 times more, right? 55 times more. So again, for me, I really want to know... You're ignoring the concept of influence and how long APEC has been around.

Starting point is 01:35:38 Look, I don't think it's the right number you're pulling up because I think, Rob, they spent 25 million dollars to get rid of Bowman, so that's why I don't think that's the right number. They type in how much did APAC spend to get rid of Bowman? Can you just Google that? Go for it. There you go. Are these PACs private? I mean we don't know the numbers on the PACs.

Starting point is 01:35:55 Well the NGOs are the ones that we don't know who the contributors are, right? The NGOs which, okay there it is, that one right there. APAC has spent over 100100 million on 2024 elections. That's the number I wanna see. So very bad sign for democracy. APAC has spent over $100 million. APAC billionaire funded, Super PAC has helped defeat two of the most vocal opponents of Israel,

Starting point is 01:36:18 which one of them was, yeah, Jamal Bowman. And they spent a lot of money to get rid of that guy. How much was it to get rid of him? Can you pull up that number? I don't know why I think it was $25 million. Could have been a little bit more than that. But the reason why I'm making this argument is, I'm making the argument to say,

Starting point is 01:36:38 some may not say anything about Elon, because maybe Elon is supporting what you support. It's like, okay, hey, great. And by the way, I'm pro-Ilan. I like what Ilan is doing. But all I'm trying to say is, I get the frustration with the Israeli, I lived in Iran, so I have my own story with Muslims.

Starting point is 01:36:56 I saw what that was like, and I witnessed it. Every day, 11 years, I went to Germany, lived at a refugee camp. There's a lot of Muslims there, a lot of them, Pakistani, Afghanis, a lot of them Pakistani Afghanis a lot of them Okay, I saw what happened there I've had an insurance company. I built from zero to sixty thousand agents. We have a lot of Muslims in the company Guess what phenomenal experience I had the experience there. So it but it's not

Starting point is 01:37:19 100% across the board with everybody, right? 100% across the board with everybody, right? America's 13% black, our agency was 24% black. America's 24% Hispanic, our agency was 51% Hispanic, that when we build the insurance agency. And I got a chance to watch these guys because we're in 50 states. But sometimes, you know, it can go in a direction where I just wanna know what is their leverage?

Starting point is 01:37:45 Is the leverage holding people hostage? Is the leverage, like, I wrote a book, fiction book called The Academy. And The Academy is about a secret society that's been around for a couple thousand years that they recruit young kids and they build them into the future leaders that won. Many presidents, many have gone through this,

Starting point is 01:38:02 you know, secret society called the Academy. And one of the stories in there is about the villain is a former deputy director of SAVAK in Iran under the Shah who left early and he was working with the Shah. His name is Parviz Sabati. I think if you can look him up, it's a very common American name, Rob. You should be able to spell that out easily.

Starting point is 01:38:24 And this deputy director of SAVAG, who ends up having some of the qualities of the villain, eventually finds me, okay? And he reaches out to me, says, you wrote a book, said yes. He reads the book, type in P-A-R-V-I-Z, and then P-A-R-V-I-Z, right there. Okay, so this is him. He was a former Deputy Director of SAVAK, and you watch documentaries on him and what

Starting point is 01:38:59 the SAVAK that in Iran. Yeah. You know, these guys had, well, some of it is awful, but some of it is, you know, where they were the CIA, the Mossad, the, you know, so all of it can be said awful. CIA, Mossad, you know, SAVAK, MI6. They were all training them too, the Mossad and CIA. So we can say all of them are awful, right? They've all been trained by, and then you hear what he was able to record

Starting point is 01:39:25 with Molas and Hezbollahs, who were these clergy, and then he would get stuff with women. And so he had this footage on them, right? And that's a form of hostage. You better say this or else. I'm trying to find out, is there anything Israel has as a leverage? I'm not just saying black men, that's one of the forms.

Starting point is 01:39:44 Epstein was apparently Mossad and CIA, right? I had his brother on our podcast for a few hours, yeah. Does he think that he was both? I asked him, he was very gray and he was uncomfortable answering that. We did a two hour podcast. He did tell me that he had a mentor. Who's the mentor that he talked about Epstein?

Starting point is 01:40:02 Do you remember the mentor he brought up? He talked about a mentor that taught Epstein everything, and then when I brought it up, he got very, very uncomfortable very quickly. That guy right there, Steven Huffenberg, I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy or not. Claymond Rigginwood on 450, yeah, he helped, he was one of the guys that apparently played the role of a mentor, but there was another guy as well, yeah, he helped, you know, he was one of the guys that apparently played

Starting point is 01:40:25 a role of a mentor, but there was another guy as well, Rob, Epstein's mentor. Found dead. Were you reading that? He was found dead in his apartment. Yeah, he was found dead. Jeffrey Epstein convicted fraudster, found dead in his apartment, but meaning he learned his model. So on the Epstein side, Mark never told me anything

Starting point is 01:40:45 about Mossad. I asked him, I said, were you also Mossad himself? He was uncomfortable answering that directly. I wouldn't be surprised. But that's the question. My biggest question is the leverage. What did they have? There's no way, did they have it on Congress so many times?

Starting point is 01:41:05 I think it's both. I mean, it's, it's, it's, yeah. The threat of saying you were gonna campaign against you, that's just enough. Exactly, it's both private and public. I mean, look at, we just saw the Jeff Sachs interview. Today, all these newspapers are saying Jeffrey Sands is anti-Semitic conspiracy theories

Starting point is 01:41:21 for saying that Israel's basically foreign policy is what we're running in the Middle East, which is pretty evident. I don't think that's anti-Semitic to say that. I don't think that's anything bad to say. I think go research it and investigate it. I mean, March 2022, when you were here and Ukraine had happened, when did Russia-Ukraine happen? A month prior to that? February? And if you remember, you were uncomfortable. Like, you know, at first you're like, ah, and you and I were both a little bit skeptical about Zelensky and Ukraine and at that time when you said it everybody's like oh my god You know how could you say that the dictator Putin is the next Hitler this Oliver Stone is so out of touch

Starting point is 01:41:58 And the ghost of Kiev was still riding high and then that was a CIA story remember? Right. And all these different things, you know, Zelensky calling and saying. Well the documentary you did was just insane. Ukraine on Fire. Yeah, Ukraine on Fire was phenomenal. Yeah, I learned a lot because we actually paid attention to Ukraine after the Putin interviews that helped me. He said to me, I said, what's the big deal about Ukraine?

Starting point is 01:42:19 You know, I thought it was another Eastern European country that had gone to NATO. He said, for you it's not a big deal, for us it's a very big deal. He says that on the tape. And I think I finally understood the importance of Ukraine because they've been invaded twice through the underbelly, through Ukraine, twice by Poland.

Starting point is 01:42:39 And they were invaded by Napoleon, they were invaded by the wind Woodrow Wilson said troops 16 armies fought against the red The red the Bolshevik Revolution 16 armies led by Britain and the United States France Poland Poland sent huge amount of men You met a lot of people right all leaders you met Putin. Yeah, you met Maduro. I think yeah You met Chavez Lula Castro, Castro, Netanyahu. Which one of them? Shimon Peres and Netanyahu, yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 01:43:11 Which one of them that after you spent time with them, walked away, you had a bad impression of them first, but later on you're like, well now what? I don't have a bad impression. Which one of them were you like, oh, I was neutral, but I walked away saying, I don't know if I like this guy? Netanyahu. Netanyahu, yeah.

Starting point is 01:43:30 You what? I thought he was a mad, he was very extreme back in 2002 or, he was going on and then the bomb went off as we was talking to us, it's in the film, it's called... Persona non grata. What? Persona non grata. Persona non grata. Yeah non grata persona non grata

Starting point is 01:43:45 Yeah, because in the he goes over the window. He says look that's and he's right There was a bomb that was going off in a grocery store So he was like very concerned, but he had suffered greatly because his brother John and Johan was killed in the in The raid in Uganda was gone to Uganda raid against they made a movie about it. What was it called? Yeah, I don't remember the film Yeah the Uganda The dictator of Uganda had taken hostages and the Israelis went in with a with a commando attack and they succeeded and they made two Movies about it one with Charles Bronson. It was wonderful

Starting point is 01:44:21 But his brother was the only one killed in that raid from the Israeli side. He was killed at the very end. So he was a hero in Israel. It was a lot of a vengeance, personal hatred of the Muslim. I felt that with him, that he did not trust him at all. And I felt that, it was echoed by,

Starting point is 01:44:43 but other people like Rabin and I also Perez Shimon was saying you know he we have to get along always that was his is but at the same time he also said you cannot trust the Arabs because what they write what they're their handwriting the way they write is very flowery and it doesn't it it's not objective like scientific. That's his interpretation. It was an interesting viewpoint. Even Shimon, who was a humanitarian person as I know, had distrust of the Arabs. And that's, it's fundamental. My wife, my first wife, was Lebanese. I felt differently. I liked them. I spent time in Lebanon before the war, in 1975.

Starting point is 01:45:26 So I have no problem. And like Sean says, I feel like it's closer to the crusades than it is to a religious issue. East-West. So Netanyahu was the only one that you walked away. Yeah, he was dangerous. Because he had such passion, such passion. And he had a desire. He was young and strong and amazing stamina. Look at this. He's lasted like Putin.

Starting point is 01:45:54 He's lasted 23-some years in business like this. And look what he's done, though. He's taking this closer to nuclear and the nuclear winner than ever. There's no other person alive. That is as dangerous He's lobbied actively for a war against Iran, which is going to be a war not just against Iran So we have war against China. It's gonna be a war against you Russia. It's a very dangerous Man, I mean Syria. He's gloating. He's gloating over Syria, but that's not over. It's gonna come back and haunt him

Starting point is 01:46:24 This thing is so ugly. It's gotten over Syria, but that's not over. He's gonna come back and haunt them. This thing is so ugly, it's gotten out of hand, and that's because of us supporting Israel blindly, without ever questioning them. Kennedy questioned them. That was the whole point that, you know, Kennedy said this nuclear thing is gonna stop. We're not gonna give them nuclear weapons.

Starting point is 01:46:41 And he was adamant about it, and he was to stop it. When Johnson took over after the assassination, Johnson turned a blind eye to it. When we knew for sure that they had a weapon in 67, Johnson made sure they didn't announce it. Pentagon did not announce it. We think also about, you know, this policy shift. It wasn't like it was always adamantly whatever Israel wants until 2001. That's when the neocons take over. That's when the 9-11 justifies all these wars in the Middle East, so-called justifies. Obviously, what did it do? Did it bring benefit to the American people? Did it bring stabilize anything? No, we destabilized that region. But as I said, it's been all Israel policy and mostly Netanyahu policy.

Starting point is 01:47:27 Netanyahu is closer to Hamas. That's what's really curious when you look at the history that, as you know, Netanyahu and company hated Arafat. So they, back in the 80s, they actually allowed Hamas to grow. That's now known that Israel was essentially allowing Hamas to grow into this beast because it played off against Arafat's PLO and those guys, Patan. So they used that. And I think that's what's so curious is that Hamas is almost, it truly is Netanyahu's best weapon.

Starting point is 01:48:00 I mean, at the moment that he was being indicted in the Supreme Court, I think there's a new documentary about Bibi's file, I think it's called. It's nominated. Yeah, it's being nominated for best picture. Exposing all this corruption that he was charged with, he was gone. And then October 7th comes and it justifies everything. It's like these moments that justify war is very much provocative. You should study that. The BB files?

Starting point is 01:48:26 The BB files, I think. Well, it came at that very strange moment when he's about to go. Remember how close he came to being evicted? So, the angle you're taking with him is the moment you realize what happened to his brother in Uganda, which was the only one you're saying that died, from that moment on this went from being, you know, just a job or a career that I'm going to do because I love Israel to a personal passion crusade, cause correcting and injustice. Well, we didn't know him before, so you can't say what he was.

Starting point is 01:48:59 Well, I knew him at that point. But I'm saying, but before, and he was a, you know, those guys were true believers from the beginning, but he, you know, people say he was part of killing Rabin. He created that atmosphere, if nothing else, Netanyahu did. Remember when Rabin was killed? Netanyahu was playing up to that atmosphere. So Yonatan was an Israeli military officer who commanded the Seirot, Matkal during the... He was a Harvard graduate, I think. Was he a Harvard graduate? Yeah he Harvard grad yeah briefly attended because some guys know the United States he was a real hero after serving the

Starting point is 01:49:29 Israel military than the sixth day where he briefly attended Harvard University before trust when the Hebrew University Jerusalem 19th there after he was studied returned to military in Israel so what year did he die 76 is this his older brother yes this is his older brother? Yes. This is his older brother? Yes. How many years apart are they? Can you check to see when Bibi was born? Cause he's 46.

Starting point is 01:49:50 I don't think Bibi's in the, okay. So three years older. Got it, interesting. And this has been a commitment he's made to his brother to seek his vengeance. Is that kinda how you process it? Is the origin of this passion? Don't you think for somebody to get to that level of power,

Starting point is 01:50:14 you almost need something like this, like to get to that level? I mean, look at Trump, he doesn't drink any alcohol. Why not? You know the story with his brother, Fred, right? We hear those stories, right? Although it was a decision before. It was a decision before, you're right, because he told him know the story with his brother, Fred, right? We hear those stories, right? Although it was a decision before. It was a decision before, you're right,

Starting point is 01:50:28 because he told him, look, listen to me, never drink alcohol, never drink alcohol, and he finally, he's like, I'm not gonna do it, and he tells his kids. Did you learn that from Roy Cohn? I don't know if Roy Cohn was told. Roy was a drinker, remember in the movie. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 01:50:41 Would you watch The Apprentice? Yeah. What'd you think about it? I saw it twice. Me too, I saw it twice in the first week. I've much enjoyed it, I went very the movie. Would you watch The Apprentice? Yeah. What did you think about it? I saw it twice. Me too. I saw it twice in the first week. Mitch and Jordan, I went very well done. What was your impression?

Starting point is 01:50:51 I didn't walk away thinking that Trump was the monster of all time. That was part of that whole campaign. That's why the Democrats overdid it. They overdid everything on Trump. The movie flopped. I don't know why it flopped. I always said to you, if you remember correctly, I said the worst president we've ever had was George Bush, George H.W. Bush.

Starting point is 01:51:09 And I told you why. Because he started the whole war on terror. And I said, what's Trump compared to that? You know, why are the Democrats having this hysteria about derangements and that and you and no one paid attention. But wait until this thing is cleared. If we ever get through it, we're gonna have to look back at that period from 2001.

Starting point is 01:51:29 How do you think? And that phony election with the Chads and all that. That was the worst moment for me in this century. I remember that night so well when I was going south with his scalia jumping in on the Florida thing and saying we have to, there's an irregularity here. And then they suspended the recount, remember? You wanted Gore at that time?

Starting point is 01:51:49 I did want Gore, yes. And I think it was a key election. I thought it was the whole century turned on it in a way. It was a strange date. It was one of those things like the McKinley election in 1900. How different do you think the relationship's gonna be? When you were saying Kennedy and Israel, how do you think the relationship is going to

Starting point is 01:52:07 be Trump with them? Kennedy was monitoring them and saying, what are they doing? I get that. I'm just saying, how do you think- We're not allowing them to be the power in the Middle East. How do you think it's going to be with Trump? I'm worried about that part of it the most because I like the possibility. Trump could be, as Sean said, a crusading president, he could be really a change against war.

Starting point is 01:52:29 He could move away from all these policies. But his commitment to Israel is insane, because it's wholehearted and he has no modification on it. And he doesn't understand the Arab position. He doesn't understand history, frankly. I wish Sean could spend some time with him. Well, his daughter's husband's father is Lebanese right? They've got he's isn't he the new Coordinator for some of these I'd be nice, but the adults or the Adelson money is is huge in it

Starting point is 01:52:55 But I do think you know, I feel that if anyone can negotiate peace I don't think that Trump likes Nes and Yahoo I think he has to remember that Netanyahu was the first person to call Joe Biden in 2021 or 2020 and congratulate him. He won't forget that. I don't think Trump forgets that. I think Trump doesn't. Trump won't forget that.

Starting point is 01:53:12 I don't think Trump likes Netanyahu. I think that he will, if anyone can bring peace, it is Trump because he has to factor the Saudi position. The Saudis have gotten closer to Iran. It's not what it was years ago. They're actually making peace. Their bricks are here. I think he has to realize that this escalation would lead to World War III.

Starting point is 01:53:32 He has to see that now. And so if anyone can start to work out a deal to say, okay, how can we accommodate the Palestinians? Give them some livelihood. Give them some economy. I mean, Trump's got to understand that's the only future. He knows that, he knows. You start bombing things, you start destroying,

Starting point is 01:53:48 it ruins economies, it ruins cultures. He has to see the path forward now, it's gonna be negotiating with the neighbors, getting them involved. Well this is a key moment then in history, isn't it? But I don't think, here's my impression of Trump. I was on Jesse Waters two nights ago and I said, you know what happens when you're handsome, rich and met every famous celebrity in the world?

Starting point is 01:54:14 You know what edge you have? One, no girl can sway you because you've been around beautiful women your entire life. Number two, there's nothing you can give him financially for him to be ooh, oh my God, what a great painting, all this stuff, nothing. So you can't buy him. And number three is he's not enamored by anybody. There is no celebrity he's gonna meet where he's gonna be like oh my God, I can't believe I'm.

Starting point is 01:54:40 And give him the Nobel Peace Prize. Well, I think but but I think After he does what he does don't give it to him like Obama prematurely and but I think one thing with him Every single time I've heard him talk about Netanyahu. It's always the we'll see Mm-hmm, and that's key because we'll see is The pressures on who you?

Starting point is 01:55:14 Yeah, BB meaning you can't try to abuse this relationship. Yeah, we'll see yeah, we'll see what you're gonna be delivered Syria That's right. Well, but that's and spied right that's not under his watch. That's on the bus. I wonder Well, I again it goes back to seeing if there's one thing we learned from Trump in first term, he's not a guy that likes war. He's just not a fan of it. And how many people, he said the other day in an interview, after winning, he's spoken personally. Did you hear how many world leaders he said he's spoken to?

Starting point is 01:55:44 He said he's spoken over 100 world leaders already. World leaders. This is not Jamie Dimon. This is not Billionaire's. This is not Jeff Bezos. This is not Tim Cook. Although he's met with them as well. And look at Trudeau, Canada.

Starting point is 01:55:57 All of a sudden you're getting stories about the fact that he may be stepping down and resigning and all this stuff. That was interesting as well as don't forget Venezuela which of course has a lot of oil. What is, you've said some good things about Maduro sometimes. I said good things about Chavez, yes. Why Maduro though?

Starting point is 01:56:15 What, what? I don't know Maduro, I met him a few times with Hugo. Listen, again, I told you earlier, the Democrats were so hysterical about Trump that it turned me off. If you look at how hysterical the United States has been on Maduro and the Venezuelan revolution, it turns me off because we've lied, cheated,

Starting point is 01:56:40 put other people into, called them president. We played every dirty trick on Venezuela we can, starving them, suffering them. So, and they've withstood this as best they could. And for that, they're the underdog, man. They're the revolutionaries in this case, believe it or not. Yes, they're not a tyranny,

Starting point is 01:56:57 because people can leave, they leave all the time. You don't think Maduro's a tyranny? No, because they can leave whenever they want. They can walk across the border. Those people are there because there is a Bolivarian revolution. do those a tyranny? No, because they can leave whenever they want. They can walk across the border. Those people are there because there is a Bolivarian revolution. He has destroyed so many people's lives.

Starting point is 01:57:10 How many people did they make? I mean, you have to go back to the beginnings when he educated that population. He gave them a life. They didn't have a life. See, that's the part Oliver liked. See, that's why you're unique. You don't pay attention to 98, 99.

Starting point is 01:57:26 No, the reason why you're unique. You don't pay attention to 98, 99. The reason why you're unique, the reason why you're unique, and it's tough to put you in a place, is one minute you'll say one thing. No, I'm for the people. I know, but what I'm saying is, this guy's not for his people. This guy's not for his people. Not you what do you know when you when I said man I met the inflation

Starting point is 01:57:48 Lifestyle the inflation has a lot to do with the United States to the lifestyle I don't know. Yeah, but but the it has to be United States when you're saying we put the sanctions on buying oil and doing All of that stuff. Yeah, and all the dirty tricks that go on. I mean he just lost the election to How do you know That's America's interpretation of it. Not necessarily. That's the, his interpretation is the fact that he won 51.2% or something like that. You know who the other candidate was? Mario Corrino Machado? Right wing lady. She's pretty wild. She's pretty much the old way. She's very clear distinction going back to the old Venezuela. There's no clear distinction going back to the old Venezuela.

Starting point is 01:58:26 There's no hope there. Yeah, I had her on the podcast. Well, I haven't met her. Yeah. Well, love. Please don't fall for the propaganda. You especially. I'll tell you this.

Starting point is 01:58:36 Here's what I would tell you. Maduro, if you are able to go to Venezuela to do an interview with him, I'd love to join you. I'd love to talk to you. Okay. Yeah, if you're... Maybe I'll investigate that. I'd love to go talk to him.

Starting point is 01:58:50 If Truman turns, I mean if Trump turns his capacity on Venezuela, then we're going to have another war. That's going to be ugly too. We don't want that. Yeah, this is not a... Those are the two threats right now. Iran and Venezuela. I have a lot of educated Venezuelans who are good family people who escaped, who came here, who will say things about Maduro that is absolutely... Yes, I've heard them. I've heard them. Believe me, I've heard them. But you're defending him. He's a socialist essentially, right? Not just any kind of socialist. He's a Bolivarian Well socialist, but I think that's the question is, is that really the

Starting point is 01:59:28 best path forward at this point? And I think holding on to the socialist ideal feels antiquated. Well what do you think about Millet? I think he's working in his way. Absolutely. Everybody from Argentina tells me that. Not everybody. Some people are suffering, yes, but the truth is you can feel both ways. You can understand. Well, respectfully, you are weird, different, and I love it. They're not necessarily a contradiction.

Starting point is 01:59:51 No, they are not necessarily a contradiction. Ha ha ha ha. Well, I know you got a flight to catch. And by the way, Sean, before we wrap up, what can people find all of President's Men? Yeah, for sure. All the President's Men is on Tucker Carlson's network at this time.

Starting point is 02:00:14 Yeah, and also- And by the way, I thought it was ranked, is this the one that was number one on Apple? No, not yet. We haven't gone to Apple. It's only here. My website, SeanStone.info has links to like all my you know All my work documentaries books. Can we put all of that below Rob? That might be a good place that people can link to

Starting point is 02:00:33 Okay, so go to your website and then from there they can go directly to this exactly We'll put both of those links they can find other documentaries and projects and Hollywood DC is a documentary talking about you're talking about the influence of politics in the media right and journalism and Hollywood and film we get into that in the hour-long special actually that's a good documentary as well well we're gonna drive to that and Sean I've spent time with your dad I hadn't spent time with you but dude you're freaking interesting as hell and I really enjoyed talking to you as just talking to you. It was interesting hearing your perspective. We know the great Oliver Stone, but this was phenomenal

Starting point is 02:01:14 having both of you guys here. What a great conversation. And again, put the link below till next time, and maybe our next time will be in Venezuela sometime. Maybe so. Maybe we'll go to Venezuela together. Maybe we'll come around. You might not make it out though Patrick.

Starting point is 02:01:30 Well then I would validate my point. I'd call Oliver, I'm like Oliver come get me. You gotta come get me. I'm joking. Anyways guys, God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye bye bye.

PBD Podcast - Russia vs Ukraine, JFK Assassination, Trump vs Deep State w/ Oliver & Sean Stone | PBD Podcast | Ep. 522

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