PBD Podcast - Sam Sorbo & Destiny | PBD Podcast | Ep. 220

Starting point is 00:00:00 Do you remember the F. Comedy Jam? 15 years ago. That's right, 15 years ago. He was part of the F. Comedy Jam. So he was one of those, like if you remember the Wayne's Brothers, he's part of that camp. Okay, cool.

Starting point is 00:00:12 Yeah, he did a lot. Yn yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n ddol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n ddol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n ddol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n dol, yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw I Did you ever think you would make it I know this life man for me Yeah, why would you plan on the life when when we got bet David? Value payment, giving values, contagious, this world, I want your panoras. We can't no value that hate it. I'd be running home, you look what I've become. Charity, the last podcast of the year. But at the same time, it's going to be very...

Starting point is 00:02:24 I think we can use weird, strange, awesome. I have a feeling it's gonna be a very, very good podcast. Yeah. It was arranged last minute because of flight challenges yesterday with our buddy coming in from LA who was Southwest yet some issues. When I asked Rob, Rob gave me a look,

Starting point is 00:02:41 I'm like, yep, he had flight issues. But we have a SAMSORBAL, which is great to have you here. Thank you. On the podcast and we had your husband, Kevin here. And I want to say, Hercules, yeah. Hercules, come on. Hercules, come on.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Hercules, I'm here. Hercules, I'm here. Hercules, more. Hercules, more, okay, I'll take it. All right. So we have Sam here, she's got some strong opinions and we'll learn a little bit about her and then we'll get into that as well

Starting point is 00:03:05 And then we also have destiny Steven or should I say Steven aka destiny yeah, there were here's with us as well He's been known as some say he's the the bench Shapiro of the progressives very opinionated That what they said witty fast likes debates He has opinions for everything. says, which is great. And Destiny, why don't you tell everybody about your hair today? There's a special reason for your hair today. There is.

Starting point is 00:03:33 I would like to say, though, I consider Ben Shapiro to be the destiny of the writer. What? Well played. Yeah, I did a charity event, like fucking three years ago, I think, and I told him I'd dye my hair blue. And I didn't think they'd hit the goal they did. I finally dyed my hair like I think a month ago in Georgia How do you like it? It's a lot of work. Really? What's what's the charity?

Starting point is 00:03:54 I don't even remember it was like three years ago, but we were doing a fundraiser and one of the goals was like if you Raise like so much money then I promised I'll dye my hair blue and then we yeah Usually when you do these types of bets or charitable type fundraisers, it's within a fiscal year. They're hitting you back three years later. Hey, by the way, I don't even remember what you agreed to. How long do you have to keep there? Well, I did it.

Starting point is 00:04:16 The problem is that like, now if I'm gonna get rid of it, I think I have to shave it all off. So I might wait for the bottom part to grow a little bit more and... How's the end yet, the black? The bottom has grown. Yeah, it's a little bit, but you know, we'll see because the problem with the blue is it fades and then it turns like a swamp color Right, well it hasn't done that yet. So okay, okay, so what we're trying to do here is get rid of the swamp But yeah, so look what we want to do today our audience likes a good a banter debate respectfully, but you know going back and forth If you don't mind taking a quick

Starting point is 00:04:45 Second and just kind of giving your background Sam, I mean obviously I have your entire background here, but if you don't mind with the audience, so you know who you are and what you've done in the past. Sure. I came out of film. I did go to Duke University, which studied biomedical engineering, but and of course Harvard is the Duke of the North if we're going to be playing that game. But I left school to pursue acting. I did modeling for many years also, and so I'm also a filmmaker.

Starting point is 00:05:19 I had three children, and I realized that the school wasn't getting the job done. And so I pulled my kids out of school and I started homeschooling them. And I'd love to say that I never look back. I did. I put them back in school for about six weeks once, and that was an enormous mistake. And so now I advocate for just full sale taking your children out of school because school is not education.

Starting point is 00:05:43 Well, we'll definitely talk about that. And I know you got a book on that which we'll get to as well. This thing, if you don't mind taking a moment, share it with the audience. Well, geez, I went to the prestigious University of Nebraska at Omaha. I did music for three years and then dropped out because I was working too much.

Starting point is 00:05:58 I do politics online. People would call me progressive. I mean, they're very far left if you're a conservative or I'm not far left enough if you're like a super progressive. I guess I'm like a modern kind of like Bill Marr where there's like a lot of progressive values that I believe in, but some people take it way too far. And that's kind of where I'm at right now.

Starting point is 00:06:15 That's, and share some of them with us. Like yesterday we had Kyle Kalinsky here and I'm sure you know Kyle is, we had a good time with him. You're not a Kyle guy, you don't like that? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Okay.

Starting point is 00:06:26 So tell us what you stand for. What are some of the things you can't do? I think broadly speaking, the things that I talk about are the importance of the establishments that are around us, the institutions that exist, why they're important, why they're worth protecting. I try to show that you can be critical of them without thinking that like all of them

Starting point is 00:06:40 have to be toppled and overturned, that we can, for instance, like criticize things like the FDA without saying that like COVID vaccines are causing our hearts to explode, or we can be critical of, yeah, basically just holding institutions accountable without saying we have to topple the whole system. I think that the political paradigm in the country right now is very much like populist versus anti-populist,

Starting point is 00:06:58 and I'm very much like an institutional anti-populist kind of guy. Can you also share how you came about your philosophy? Because I do know, you know, there's a range of you went through the Iran phase, you went through the Iran poll phase, you went through the conservative phase, kind of give a little bit of the back. Yeah, I guess speedrunning it.

Starting point is 00:07:12 I grew up, is Neil Connoissellur for Republicans? Do they not like that? They do not like that. Okay, I grew up a bush, a bush Republican, I guess. That's how you grew up. Well, Nebraska. I was gonna say you're sort of conservative. You're about conserving the institutions

Starting point is 00:07:29 without toppling them. That's kind of conservative. Sure, if we want to call that conservative now, but then conservatives are conservatives because they seem like they want to destroy everything. Fair enough. Yeah, I grew up my mom. And it's weird.

Starting point is 00:07:39 My mom is Cuban. So Cubans are very conservative. I grew up in a very conservative household, both my parents are Air Force. I also went to Catholic school. So grew up very religious are very conservative. I grew up in a very conservative household, both my parents were Air Force. I also went to Catholic school. So group very religious, very Catholic, around 16, 17, 15, 16, I kind of became atheist. Had my little ironed face,

Starting point is 00:07:52 my little Atlas shrugged, anthem, and then from there, I was a big Ron Paul fan in 2008. I got to just streaming it around 2010, and then from there I've kind of slowly become more left as I've earned more money, and I've seen how unfair the world was. Prior've earned more money and I've seen how unfair the world was prior to earn more money. You've gone further left. A lot of times you go further right

Starting point is 00:08:09 when you start making more money. Leave me alone. Let me do my thing. Capitalism entrepreneurship. Why would you go further left as you started making more money? I think the largest thing I saw was viewing life through the lens of my kid seemed really unfair

Starting point is 00:08:22 to the other children around him. You have a kid. Yeah, love your soul. Oh, wow. So like my ability to just buy a house in the best school district. Send my kid to wherever he needs to go to school, make sure that he has all the things that he needs. Like, these are all things that I love him to death, but he hasn't earned any of these,

Starting point is 00:08:36 right? You know, from birth, you know, he hasn't worked yet. He doesn't do his chores all the time, you know. But like, the fact that I can provide so much for him and gave him such a head start compared to other people, you know, when I see this guy go to kindergarten first grade and they all get their own laptops and iPads assigned to them, like Jesus. And then you've got kids in, you've got schools

Starting point is 00:08:53 in Omaha that can barely afford computers for their computer room, starting to see things through that lens. And then also comparing the things in my life post becoming wealthy to pre-becoming wealthy. Like every interaction with a police officer before becoming wealthy is like the end of your fucking life because like a speeding ticket is setting you back

Starting point is 00:09:09 like two months if you pop a wheel or you break a wheel, you pop a tire, anybody that drives an Omaha knows that Interstate 80, all these bottles will like destroy your life. Seeing how easy like everything became a life after earning money is like, I don't know. It just, it kind of changed my perspective on a lot of things.

Starting point is 00:09:23 So why did you move to Florida? Originally, I moved from Omaha to California about four years ago. I lived in California for about three years. I had kind of friends there, and then I've got more friends in Miami, so eventually I moved from California to Miami to join those friends here. But why save that taxes, though? And if you really want to give the money back, it shouldn't be a better idea to live in California or New York, will you pay more taxes? I don't really care much about taxes.

Starting point is 00:09:47 There are certain social programs that I would want funded, and if you have to raise taxes to fund those, that's fine, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically good about paying taxes or not paying taxes, just a matter of whether or not the programs you want are getting funded, I guess. So, you don't see anything intrinsically good, whether you pay taxes or you don't pay taxes? Not really. So unpack that, what do you mean by that? I feel like, sorry, let me know if I'm rambling too much,

Starting point is 00:10:13 but oftentimes people will get attached to processes instead of outcomes, right? So a really good example might be housing people, right? We want houses for more people, but people will look at a process, like we'll say rent control, and that becomes inexplicably tied to the outcome. If you support rent control, you support housing people.

Starting point is 00:10:30 If you're opposed to rent control, you're opposed to housing people. But sometimes that process is not a good process. So it's hard for people to back away from it because in their mind, you have to support this thing. It's like, well, it's not even getting us to our end goal. And I view taxation the same way. Taxation is like a tool.

Starting point is 00:10:44 It's not good or bad to pay taxes or not pay taxes. It's just like a tool that we use to fund the government. And then the real fight should be, what do we want the government to be doing? And then assuming that we've got like these services, you know, conservators tend to want less, liberals are left-leaning people tend to want more. Considering the services that we've got provided by the government, we raise enough money in taxes to fund those services. That's how I view it.

Starting point is 00:11:04 I just, there's no, like a, so what do you think we're wasting money? What do you think we should be investing more money? Like, what do you think taxes should go to? Where are we wasting it? Where are we wasting it? Man, I don't know. It's probably a ton of different areas. I imagine that everybody's wasting money everywhere. I feel like everybody always does that. I'm going to go line by line and then when they get an office, they're like, no, fuck that. In terms of where we should invest, I'm big in like preventative stuff or like investing for the future. So I think big investments and education

Starting point is 00:11:29 and they're important. I don't know if you like that one. And then investments in like things where we know we can save money. So that moved to expand the IRS. I thought that was a good one because it's a way to raise money for the federal government.

Starting point is 00:11:40 Investments in things like providing contraception people. Wait, but expanding the IRS is a way to raise money for the government? Yeah, my understanding is that the IRS knows that there's a lot of money out there, but they don't have the agents to work all the files. So expanding the IRS is one of the few ways where the government can increase his expenditure on some government employees, but raise more money for the government. But you did see that that was going to cost the little guy more, because it's the little guys that they go after more.

Starting point is 00:12:03 that that was going to cost the little guy more because it's the little guys that they go after more. Like expanding their right right now they're they're devoting their resources more towards the big guys because they know that that's that's got the the value added right there. They expand their agency. Then they can go after the little guys the the guys that get taken out by a pothole. No. When you're a little guy, taxes are like the last thing that you're worried about

Starting point is 00:12:27 in my personal opinion, generally speaking. Well, if you look at any, I mean, you can look at all the advertising for, hey, if you're in debt and you owe the IRS, we will help you. The advertising says there are a lot of people who need to avail themselves of that service. Sure, and I also, HNR Block will charge you $200

Starting point is 00:12:43 to fill out like your W2s. I mean, people can advertise for certain things. I'm just saying that I don't think that the IRS is targeting poor people. Now, I don't think that's true. I know some people were worried because there are certain apps like Venmo and CashApp that might have been flying under the radar.

Starting point is 00:12:58 I don't think they issue, I don't know if they issue a 10-in-an-k is like PayPal does, but maybe for things like that. But for the most part, expanding the IRS should help them go after the money that they know is other. I don't think they're targeting poorer people. If you want to talk about targeting poor people, I do agree that that's not a good thing.

Starting point is 00:13:11 However, pretty sure it was conservatives that pushed for, if you get the earned income tax credit, EITC, I believe that there is a mandatory like 10% audit on those people as a contingency to make sure that they're not scamming the government or something with their taxes. So I would agree that that's a waste of money in terms of where the IRS is focusing on just because of that mandatory audit rate. But aside from that, I don't think expanding the IRS is them just going after little guys because I don't think you raise very much money doing that. If you earn 30 or 40,000 a year, I don't even know what the average federal tax liability

Starting point is 00:13:41 is for somebody like that. It's probably pretty low. If not, not very low. It might be nothing. Yeah. Low 10% for sure. I suppose it depends on how you define the little guy. That's how we define a little guy.

Starting point is 00:13:52 But before I got in a streaming, I did carpet cleaning, which sucked balls. So for me, little guy is like 24, 30,000 a year. That's little guy for me. If you guys are thinking like 80, 90, 100,000 years, little guy. Do you know what percentage of America makes more than a hundred grand? I want to say three percent. Close.

Starting point is 00:14:11 What is it? What do you know? I don't know. You know the number? 15% Yeah. 15% makes more than six figures. Is that a 15% of earners or 15% of households?

Starting point is 00:14:23 That's a good, that's a good caveat right there. I think it is earners. Okay. So I want to say at one point, what do you need to be the top 1% earner? I think it's like 300K. It's like 450, I'm gonna say something in that regard. All right.

Starting point is 00:14:35 15% of this country making over, 50% of workers, that sounds like a lot to me. There's a lot of wealth in this nation. Or it's just not a lot of money anymore. It's a used to. And where maybe 100,000 is not a lot of wealth in this nation. Or it's just not a lot of money anymore. As it used to. And where maybe 100,000 is not a lot of money today. It used to be a big deal in the 80s and the 90s. But that's any question for you.

Starting point is 00:14:53 How much of what you're doing is you're toying and trolling with people, where you're just kind of like a way of getting under people's skins to get attention and get eyeballs, and then constantly changing and evolving, where you're not letting your audience guess who you are, or put you in a box, because that is a method of building a brand for yourself. How much of it is that versus how much of it is, I'm just changing and I'm sharing what my opinions are today.

Starting point is 00:15:24 I'm pretty authentic. I don't know if this is true, but I might have more broadcasted content than any other personal live right now. So my whole journey, because I started, I think I was the first person to quit their job and do streaming full-time in 2010. I've been streaming probably seven hours a day on average for probably the last 12 years. So, I mean, you can see all of my growth.

Starting point is 00:15:44 I don't think I could fake a character or be a provocateur for that extended evaporative time. So yeah, I would say there's a lot of natural evolution of my political beliefs over time. Got it. When you do, I've seen the thing where he says, I believe Joe Biden is doing a great job or one of the greatest presidents.

Starting point is 00:16:02 Yeah, that only sounds like a problem. Proof me wrong. Public and okay. I think Joe Biden is doing a great job. Well, the greatest presidents. Yeah, that only sounds true. Be wrong. Public and okay. Right. Exactly. Well, I think Joe Biden is doing a great job. Well, yeah, well, let's discuss that. Well, you know, like I actually generally do believe that you're authentic We've done an interview before we've done a two hour. The only thing I won't own all the time is I can get a little while on Twitter Okay, that's fun Being wild on Twitter is actually encouraged these days, okay But I'm bringing that up because I think,

Starting point is 00:16:29 I think a part of what Tate does is trolling and to get under people's skins and I think that's a great job at it. I think Jake Paul does the same thing. I think Shapiro does the same thing. I think a part of what we do is the same thing. So that's right. He used the word provocateur. I think that's a very appropriate word.

Starting point is 00:16:40 Award we use today is, you know, you hear the word troll more like, you saw what he did to Greta yesterday. You guys see the back and forth yesterday? With Greta, that's the word troll more like you saw what he did to Greta yesterday You guys see the back and forth yesterday with Greta. Did you see what happened with him and Greta yesterday? I'm sure you saw that okay, take in Greta if you want to just click on that So yesterday Yeah, so yesterday if you want to get close to that so Greta says no go up a little bit So you don't show what she says first. No, no, no go go down just to read that part. Yeah. So Andrew Tates says, hey, Greta, I have 33 cars.

Starting point is 00:17:08 My Bugatti is a 16, eight liter quad turbo. My two Ferrari A12, you know, have six and a half liter V12. This is just a start. Please provide your email address so I can send you a complete list of my car collection and their respective enormous emissions. Okay. And the picture at the bottom is the picture of him

Starting point is 00:17:26 in the Bugatti. Now look at what Greta does, which is actually pretty impressive how she responds back. She says, please do enlighten me, email me at smalldickennagetalife.com. Right. And then he responds back and it goes back and forth, back and forth.

Starting point is 00:17:41 And then he does a video and he gets like 30 million views. So there's a model and a madness to this game. I just wonder if that's a part of where you're going, where you're able to do that versus no, I'm just talking shit, having a good time learning. Um, I don't know if you can do that model anymore. So the provocateur one. So here's the issue. When people talk about trolling, trolling had a distinctly unique definition, like 15 years going the internet. When you troll somebody, you're acting in a way that you know is stupid.

Starting point is 00:18:14 And everybody else that knows the troll is happening, knows that it's stupid. And you do it to get a rise out of somebody, right? You act like an idiot to get a rise out of somebody. The problem is today trolling just means like, I don't want to say harassing somebody, but like insulting somebody or attacking somebody that's like trolling or whatever.

Starting point is 00:18:31 But the beliefs are oftentimes real or even if the people themselves don't have the belief their fan base has it. I would say the internet has changed substantial over the past like 20 years and that 15, 20 years ago it was really funny to talk about like finding people, killing them online, you know, saying a bunch of crazy stuff

Starting point is 00:18:47 because like everybody knew it was a joke and it was just like a bunch of kids and weird old guys or whatever on the internet. It was just like fun and funny. Nowadays it's a lot different because you've got people writing manifestos and going to like Buffalo or you know, Christchurch and New Zealand

Starting point is 00:18:58 and like shooting up and killing people based on what they've read online. So the landscape has changed a lot such that it's hard to go online and be like, oh, I'm just gonna troll and sell these things because there's probably a sizable portion of your audience that's gonna end up unironically believing those things. It's a Voltaire that said that like any group that gets

Starting point is 00:19:15 its laugh by pretending to be idiots will eventually find themselves in good company. That kind of thing. No, I tend to disagree with the idea that trolls were just idiots. I think there are a couple different kinds of trolls, but there are people out there who genuinely disgruntled and upset with what somebody was doing. And so they took issue with it and they became a troll and they ended up trolling those people. And then your

Starting point is 00:19:39 second point is that there's been, certainly there's been a clamp down on what people are allowed to do in terms of trolling other people and entertain some perfect example. They just said, hey, enough of that. And he was, to me, almost an archetypal troll, like, because he just trolled the world. Like, you know, I have 33 cars come at me, whatever. And this is a great example of it. So they might want to shut that down and they've tried to shut them down. I don't, how did he get back on Twitter? Like Twitter, I mean, obviously Elon Musk,

Starting point is 00:20:13 he's still not back on Instagram as some of the other platforms. Well, also what about, I mean, you're, I think you're talking about like changing the landscape politically or ideologically. Like if you look at the success that Babylon B has had over the last handful of years. Yeah, I mean, they're trolling.

Starting point is 00:20:28 They're trolling doing the same thing. The onion has done for decades. That's right. Just took it to a whole different level though. Right. But the thing, and right now, this is like, I'm autistically quibbling over definitions. So it doesn't really matter.

Starting point is 00:20:39 This is how we use troll now. It's fine, but like, trolling in the past would be like, would be like, I go to a church and I pretend to be religious and I start like speaking in tongues. That would be like, like the boring approach to trolling. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world.

Starting point is 00:20:55 Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world.

Starting point is 00:21:03 Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world. Yeah, that's the greatest trolling that has to do with the world troll today, they're not actually trolling what they're doing is extremely indicative of the underlying belief. So like the Andrew Tate stuff, and again, I understand definitions change over time. So we can call it trolling, but there was nothing like, there wasn't much of a joke to when Andrew Tate was saying, like a lot of people genuinely feel like, fuck off government. Like I want to drive my cars. Same thing with poor at. Same thing with poor at.

Starting point is 00:21:20 What's the reason that poor at resonated is there are a lot of people who felt the same way that he did. That's why it resonated. I mean, resonance is the way something becomes popular. He became popular because it resonated. He didn't become popular because everybody thought this guy's an idiot. And so I'm going to watch more of his idiocy. They thought it was funny because it resonated with that's what humor is.

Starting point is 00:21:43 Well, it's almost like playing a character to expose to it to it to it is see if whoever and he does a great job of trolling typically the right I mean he'll do it to Bernie Sanders and the left as well. Did you see that the lot this isn't borrowed but this is Sasha Baron's cone's latest escapade I don't know two years ago what was it like saving America or United States America what was the whole thing I don't know if you could pull it up Sasha yeah showtime he did it was the whole thing? I don't know if you could pull it up, Sasha. Yeah, show time. He did it with both times. It was a whole thing, something about America.

Starting point is 00:22:07 Who is America? To be like in Israeli. Yeah. He pretended to be an Israeli Mossad gun fighter and he would go and basically convince, you know, NRA type members to that five year old should be shooting guns. Yeah. Or he went with, in like a boxing ring with like a Republican congressman,

Starting point is 00:22:29 and he convinced him to like drop his pants and like attack people with his anus. Like stuff that you're like, you can't make this up. He got people to do. And obviously the greatest troll he ever did is Pat's favorite thing in the history of the world. When he got OJ on and pretended that his girlfriend didn't know who OJ was and just was like, ah, you remember OJ, like the trolling of this man is so over the top amazing.

Starting point is 00:22:53 So the weird thing is because there's a resonance with trolls, I struggle with Sasha Baron Cohen. Like personally, I struggle. I struggle why? Just some of it's funny and some of it just makes me really uncomfortable. It just makes me uncomfortable, and I don't. But that's the point. Right.

Starting point is 00:23:10 He wants to make you uncomfortable. That's true, and so, but I'm the type of person who's like, okay, I don't need that, I don't need that discomfort level in my life. So like that last thing that you're talking about that he did, I didn't watch it. Even though I heard funny things about it, and some of the things sounded pretty funny, Yeah. Like overall. And it's the same thing. It's like the, the,

Starting point is 00:23:29 over the guys who who played all the, the pranks and did dangerous things, the jerky boys, jerky boys. It's the best thing in the history. I know. And, and, but that to me, that's just, I'm like, Jack, she's not. Oh, Jack, yeah. Jack, yeah. Of course. Yeah. You're, you're going 80s. Yeah. I'm going eight, but I think destiny brought up a very good I think destiny I really good point is that whether it's left or right Babylon B onion borat jack who gives a shit? I think trolls Making fun of people Just joking around I think I think that's part of America. I think it's health. It's healthy because if you can't laugh at it, of course, then you're the one who has the problem. Here's where I was going with this though. That's all fun in games. This is what Elon Musk

Starting point is 00:24:14 kind of is abiding by free speech. I don't care if you're left right. I don't care if I offend you. All good. You don't track his jet as long as it doesn't incite violence. Like you brought up school shooters and manifestos and Buffalo. And that's I think where the constant slippery slope is constantly trying to be identified is like what's trolling, what's satire, and what's like, no, we have a problem here that we must address.

Starting point is 00:24:38 And that's the problem with our line. Now everybody can say some shit, which is fine, but where do you draw the line on this type of stuff? I don't even care about the indirect incitement of violence, the people call it stochastic terrorism is when you're slowly pushing people. I'm not even necessarily worried about that.

Starting point is 00:24:53 I don't know if there should be rules or legislation or anything. I just wish that people would be more honest. It's never just jokes, right? The jokes are typically, they resemble some underlying thing that people would build up. It's funny because it's true. That's exactly the rule in comedy.

Starting point is 00:25:07 For the recent like Sasha Baron, combing stuff, that thing you're talking about, that was funny if you were like left leaning and you like to shit on conservatives. That's why it was funny, because you got to see the ridiculous like positions on guns and blah, blah, blah, blah. If you watch that with a conservative friend,

Starting point is 00:25:20 some of them might not find that funny, right? Like Sam did. Well, I don't know if it's because she didn't watch it or not because she's a general. I didn't watch it. But I'm saying like some people, some conservatives might not find that funny, right? Like Sam did. Well, I don't know if it's because she didn't watch it or not, because she's a general. I didn't watch it. But I'm saying like some people, some conservatives might not find that funny. They might be like, oh, well, I don't, you know, I'm not sure. Yeah, I just don't get it.

Starting point is 00:25:32 I mean, just like how all conservatives don't find late night TV funny anymore, SNL funny, because it's like, you can only watch so many fucking Trump impersonations before you like, okay, let's find something else to laugh at. Yeah, but the whole thing with comedy is misdirection. A little. And if you already know where the joke is going, like if you watch Jimmy Kimmel, and he brings up Trump, it's never going to be like, and then Trump won the lottery and it was great. It was like, and Trump just fell flat on his face and he has a two pay.

Starting point is 00:25:57 Sure. That's the whole thing with misdirection. Here's how this whole thing went into 30 minutes. I asked, is Destiny doing this to troll people, get under people's skins, and then we turn it into a big ass topic. So let's go into. It's a good question.

Starting point is 00:26:10 Is that a bad thing? No, I don't. What I'm saying is I think it's a good thing. I think it's good that he's doing this. I think that is a business model today. I think that I don't do that. I don't, I don't, I think a part of it. It's possible tonight, though.

Starting point is 00:26:22 I think a part of, I think a part of whether you know it or not a part of it. A part of it. A part of, I think a part of, whether you know it or not, a part of you is doing it. Whether you're aware of it or not, a part of it is considered trolling and getting on their people's skins. It is a business model. Trump did it, okay. Oh yeah. Connor does it.

Starting point is 00:26:40 Jake does it. They know why does it. You can go to list the people that can do it. Can I not strategic enough to figure that out. However, my views on education have gotten so extreme that I'm probably trolling at this point. So why don't we get into that? Let's go into the kitchen.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Before we move on, I just ask you a question because I must admit, I'm sitting next to one of the bigger best trolls. I know. All right, because as serious as Pat is, he knows when to poke. Can I give you an example? Like when we had our friend Congressman Joe Wallshire. Yeah. I think that's fair to say you were trolling him a little bit. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:27:18 Are you not? No, exactly. No, I'm not, I'm not, I think that's it. That is a very necessary skill set. I agree. I'm not, I think that's it, that is a very necessary skill set. I agree. I'm not knocking, uh, trolling. I think it is what the best marketers do to get a message out there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:32 I think I agree with you. The only thing I would say to be careful of is, um, because like, I do agree that I can be provocative, but there are some people that are provocative for the sake of being provocative and they don't necessarily believe what they say. So that's like the only difference. So like, if you say like, oh, you're a bit of a troll, to some extent, I would agree. I can be very aggressive, very provocative, but I'm never just like hanging stuff out there. You know what I don't believe when I what I kind of like about today's evolution, a talent goes through. When you're

Starting point is 00:27:55 talking about 2010, you started doing streaming all that stuff. The audience has grown with you for 12 years, like you don't have seven hours a day, whatever, et cetera, et cetera. So people are also seeing, we're 30 years ago, we didn't know when somebody was evolving. You just kind of saw the product. Boom, here's who I am. Like, oh, movies, TV. Here's who I'm in, you have to stay in the box.

Starting point is 00:28:15 Versus today, you don't have to stay in the box. Yeah. Today you can kind of maneuver, literally, and say, look, now I like this. Now I like this. And then finally, eventually, so many things, you eventually go like, yeah, this is pretty much my philosophy as well.

Starting point is 00:28:27 I said that we are living in a sound bite environment now. Like, an Andrew Tachist said this, right? He said, you know, they take little snippets of what I said. I said it in a long-form video. It was part of an evolved train of thought. And that was like the sound bite that was, yeah, okay, trolling maybe, or a little bit provocative, to like wake you up.

Starting point is 00:28:48 And in fact, I think that trolling is a necessary part of all of this. I don't like the word trolling, because really what you're doing is you're trying to poke holes to see if it's actually of substance, to see if it's true. So you don't think that's good to do? I think it's excellent to do.

Starting point is 00:29:03 I think it must be done. And the people who want to shut down, those are the people whose arguments won't stand. Yeah, I think any time you're making fun of powerful people, that's a good thing. I think we need to, the challenge is. And the reverse is true. The powerful people who want to shut you down,

Starting point is 00:29:21 that's because they're insecure. Yeah, but I think the world wants to see what becomes a problem is when SNL only targets one side. That's when it's kind of like, you know what? So if you do both sides, I'm all in. If you do one side, that's the part where some people are like, if Sasha Baron coined that same thing to both sides of the aisle, I guarantee everybody would go watch it. But when he does it only to one side, some people, yeah, you know what, I don't want to see it

Starting point is 00:29:46 because you're not doing the hypocrisy on the other side. Do you know, I feel like the left has a thin skin. Everybody's got a thin skin. That's the reality. There are a lot of people that think they don't have a thin skin as soon as their size is getting bigger. I'm kind of with you. I think the original four-right, the original four-right.

Starting point is 00:30:00 The original four-right did make fun of left-loaning people. There was that whole conversation with the feminists and everything. That's true. For sure. Yeah. Well, can I give you one of who I thought was one of the greatest trolls ever, and it's now, these as Vanilla as it gets,

Starting point is 00:30:12 is Steven Colbert. When Steven Colbert did the Colbert show, and he portrayed a conservative right-leaning Trump guy, even in the midst of the Iraq war in Afghanistan. Of course, we got to get in there. They've got weapons of mass destruction. He's like, you know, they didn't. He's like, you can't tell me any different.

Starting point is 00:30:32 Like the way he was able to troll, and this kind of goes back to my comment about misdirection, you know where Stephen Colbert stands these days. So anytime he does a joke, you know where it's ending. And I think that's sort of the problem that left has these days is that we already know where you're going, buddy. And that's the whole premise with comedy and trolling and sarcasm is that that's what I respect about Andrew Schultz and what we talked about with him. Bill Burr.

Starting point is 00:30:58 Bill Burr as well as like, he'll go any directions. You gotta stay in that. You know, you know, like for example, you know, this whole thing you're talking about, the left or the right, who can handle it, who can't take it, one of the greatest roasts of all time is Trump's roast. I don't know if you saw when they roasted Trump, and you know, what Snoop said about Trump,

Starting point is 00:31:15 he says, this won't be the first time you got rid of a black man in his house, or you kicked that, I don't know if you know about what he said. First of all, you have to kick that off. And then guess what? There he's sitting there, he's been trolled by everybody and guess who's sitting right in front of Trump?

Starting point is 00:31:28 His daughter. And his daughter's laughing at the jokes they're saying about his father, about her father, which was kind of great to see him. I mean, that show, if you know a lot, a lot of times they say he's got thin skin. I mean, some of them can be credible, but if you got thin skin,

Starting point is 00:31:42 I don't see a lot of left sitting there being roasted by people in the media space, the Republicans got hold on. Didn't Trump literally act the White House correspondent? No, no, I'm talking about, I'm talking about, I'm just saying in terms of like who can handle it? Levers, right? I'm talking about the first person you think about when you say he can't handle it. The first person everybody goes to is who, Trump. Because he's got, you know, he's got thin skin. Everybody's like, oh, he's got thin skin. If you got thin skin, the last thing a thin skin person

Starting point is 00:32:12 would do is the following. I'll give you a judgment on this year. You can kind of, let's have some banter on this one. Sure. So, for example, yesterday Kyle came on the podcast. One of my favorite podcasts of the year. Not because we agreed, but it was interesting to see where he was at

Starting point is 00:32:29 and we had a good discussion. Sitting right here though. I mean, I'm sitting right here. Yeah. That's what we the second most interesting. You're so funny. Thank you for that. But we had a good conversation.

Starting point is 00:32:38 And by the way, I enjoyed Antonio Brown. And Antonio Brown was full on this respectful when he was here. He just kind of disrespected the whole audience us and it ended up being a very good podcast, but Tell me what place Trump wouldn't go to on media where they would trash him Where would he not go to? Would he not go to CNN? Would he not go to MSNBC? Would he not go to Jimmy Fallon? Would he not go to Jimmy Kimmel? Would he not go to court?

Starting point is 00:33:01 He went everywhere right now flip let me flip this on you how many times have you seen Obama Clinton Hillary any of those guys I didn't go on Fox ever how many times the answer is never except for once Well, that's true. How do they do they do they do they do they my point you let me my point the point I'm trying to make to is the following as Did they? Did they make my point? Yeah, the point I'm trying to make to is the following. As much as we can say, you know, whatever we want to say about guys like a Trump or anybody else, if you're willing to go in the den and no, they're going to trash you know, they're looking for their moment, agree or disagree, man.

Starting point is 00:33:39 That's, that's the last thing you can say is that's a thing. A thin skin person won't even go in there. So there's a bit of an argument for that. But go ahead. Also, Bernie will do the last thing you can say is that's a thin, a thin skin person won't even go in there. So there's a bit of an argument for that. But go ahead. Also, Bernie will do the same thing. I think Bernie, that's why I respect Bernie as well. I think I don't know if that has to be a Trump thing skin or not. And I think you can make an argument for him being thin skin.

Starting point is 00:33:54 And that's exactly why he branded these platforms to air his grievances. But I think didn't Trump have a pretty unique relationship with the media? Like, for instance, so you asked me that question, like, Trump went everywhere, which was true. So I'm trying to think, okay, well, the Democrats, then like they don't go on Fox News, that's true. But do they, do they go on media much at all when they were in office? Like was Obama making regular appearances on Amazon,

Starting point is 00:34:15 and AC or Fox News? Or he was making his rounds and going talking to people that gave softball questions. All they would do, like, was this during like campaigning or was this like when he was in either way when he was in office. And by the way, I've watched every single one of Obama's interviews on late night or he

Starting point is 00:34:32 would go on any of this stuff. I liked watching them, but the challenge was when he went on any shows, it was like, so what's your favorite song? You know, it's like, what do you mean? What's your favorite song versus a Trump would go on is why are you hiding everything? You know so and by the way, so who would be thin skin? So here's a question for you Let's perfect perfect thing to be thinking about Will and by guests to the podcast okay?

Starting point is 00:34:58 Some of them will email us and say send us a list of questions. Did you do that? No, sure, though. See. I'm I got you. Oh, we got you. You got you.

Starting point is 00:35:12 You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you.

Starting point is 00:35:20 You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got you. You got best. He's like, I got sweatpants, blue, or gray. I would don't care about that. That's all I got. But here's the point.

Starting point is 00:35:28 The point is the final. The point is the following. Here's the point. We'll invite somebody to the podcast and they'll say, send us a list of questions. Okay. And send us a list of topics. And then we'll invite somebody to the podcast and they'll say,

Starting point is 00:35:39 I asked me whatever you want to ask me. To me, the person that says, send me the list of questions, has got thin skin and is worried about getting caught. Versus to me, the guys like ask me anything. Trump doesn't say what questions are gonna be asked me. He just says, goes, he knows they're gonna ask him, whatever they're gonna be asking him. Versus the left, hey, send me the questions,

Starting point is 00:35:59 matter of fact, send me the debate questions to know what kind of questions, can you edit this question this way for me Hillary, so I can be a little bit more, and then writers, can you give me- In fact, I'm the debate questions to know what kind of questions can you edit this question this way for me Hillary, so I can be a little bit more, and then writers, can you, I mean, I got a Brazil guy called out, of course, for supplying the questions.

Starting point is 00:36:10 That is the ultimate thin skin community, if we want to kind of go there. And by the way, you know, you can make that argument, but Trump trumped the one thing about Trump, he likes to go into the line. I was just gonna say that, I think you can be two things at once. I think Trump can be argumentative, not afraid of debate, go into the lion's den and like

Starting point is 00:36:29 be ready for a fight abroad, but he could also be thin skinned. Well, I mean, like you can be both. You know, it's a good point. It's thin skin does not mean does not necessarily mean afraid to fight. And I think we have to define our terms, right? So thin skin, you get insulted. But that doesn't mean that you're not going to show up. And defend yourself. But there are plenty of people who won't show up. They just won't show up because they don't have the argument.

Starting point is 00:36:53 That is not Trump's problem. You will show up. That's right. It's not only because he is thin skinned. When you show up and you just say, I'm a random shitter every time. I don't know if it's as impressive. But I've been here to say that. You know, while when you show up and just say random random shit every time, it feels like that's what Trump's MO kind of was, but um, uh, got him elected. Got him elected. And he always elected. That is true.

Starting point is 00:37:11 You got called out on all this, all the random, quote, random stuff. You know what, you know what it is like? It's kind of like this. It's kind of like, uh, uh, uh, the Republican who goes to a hardcore left school and makes it out. Okay. who goes to a hardcore left school and makes it out. Okay, when you make it out, you've been destroyed by everybody on the left in that school that your arguments have to be better.

Starting point is 00:37:33 Yeah, but he didn't have any arguments for anything. No, no, what I'm saying to you is, no, for him to go to the opposing side, I think that's a, you're developing muscle when you do that. That's what hurt their feelings, because they loved him. Oh, he destroyed it. He declared for president.

Starting point is 00:37:47 I think the part about Trump that is his challenge, here's the challenge he's got. My opinion, I could be wrong, but I think he wants to fight everybody. And 99% of people are not worth fighting. And it's just kind of like, what'd you say? What'd you say? You know, you go to the club with the one friend

Starting point is 00:38:01 and he just, what'd you look at me for? What's he's that guy? So, where's that hanging out? Let's go up and down. Great. What he just tried to do to go to the club with the one friend and he just what you're looking for what what he's that guy So worse that let go up He's trying to fight too much 99% of the fights at the club listen people gonna bump into at the club Yes, if you what you do it like you're like dude It's a tight spot people are bump into each other. Just kind of walk through You almost have to tell him when we make it to the bar, which is only 20 yards away about nine people are bumping into each other. It's just kind of walk through. You almost have to tell them, when we make it to the bar, which is only 20 yards away,

Starting point is 00:38:26 about nine people are gonna bump into you. They're not trying to fight you. They're gonna bump into you. It's okay. I think that's his deal. I think that is so powerful. So powerful what you just said. I just say this all the time.

Starting point is 00:38:36 I go at this point in my life, because I went to Florida State. You're talking about steroids, keg parties and fights and hot chicks. That's Florida State for you. Pre-tap out there. And I would say this. That's college. That's college's Florida State for you. Pre-tap out there. And I would say this. That's college.

Starting point is 00:38:46 That's college. Florida State, you guys all know that. But I would say this. I go, if I'm going to fight somebody at this point in my life, I'm going to know them. We're going to have a past. We're going to have a relationship. They're going to do something that screwed me over

Starting point is 00:39:00 when I told them not to. I'm like to past point. I'm not fighting the random dude who bumped into me in the bathroom line. And I think to use that metaphor, that's what Trump is doing. It's okay to fight Nancy Pelosi. It's okay to fight Chuck Schumer. But to fight. No, I mean, to Santa's, that's fine too.

Starting point is 00:39:17 Very single person. But to fight every single comment on Twitter and defend yourself is just like, dude, let it go. I think the big issue with that too, and I saw flashes of this during the 2016 primaries and everybody on the left, probably a lot of people on the right were waiting for Trump to switch up

Starting point is 00:39:34 because there were a couple primaries that he lost or he came on stage and he was actually really gracious. He was like Ted Cruz ran a great campaign here, you know, you guys won here and that was good and I was like, oh, okay, cool. So he does have a bit of like, I don't remember any of those. He did it a couple times. and that was good. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. So he does have a bit of like, I don't remember any of those. He did it a couple of times.

Starting point is 00:39:47 Because every time it happened, I was like, okay. If this guy wins presidency, at the very least, he's gonna be like, uh, uh, uh, there's a word I'm looking for, show me or something. He's gonna be a good sport about it and everything's gonna be okay. But, uh, man, it wasn't. And Trump sold himself as a businessman. He acts the least like a businessman I've ever heard

Starting point is 00:40:04 of my entire fucking life, right? If you're a businessman and he acts the least like a businessman I've ever heard of my entire fucking life. Right? If you're a supervisor and your employees fuck up and your manager comes to you, you never blame your employees. It's your responsibility. It's your shift. If you're a manager and the store owner comes to you, you never blame your supervisors. That's your store.

Starting point is 00:40:17 Right? If you're a store manager and the CEO of the company comes to you or if Congress goes to the CEO, you're like, oh, well, my employee, right? It's you own it. That's why you get to get a good point. You say it's on me. Exactly. And Trump was the master of passing the buck.

Starting point is 00:40:29 Now, if you wanted to blame the deep state on the Democrat side, even at that, I don't think you should do it because you're the president, and it's your job to work through it. And that's what you sold us on. You talked about corporate inversions in Ireland, and you talked about bringing people together on thing, and you said you were going to do that, and he didn't.

Starting point is 00:40:44 But the problem is he attacked all of his friends too, right? He attacked sessions, he attacked his attorney general, he attacked his head, every nominated head, he's got people in his past cabinet, he's got like every single person. Like if you were on Trump's friends list, you were like two weeks away from being on his burn list. And it was like Jesus,

Starting point is 00:40:59 like can you not hold a single fucking friend in same place? It's like he loves the drama. It's like the chick who loves drama. And you're like, I just wanna have a nice dinner or but she's on her phone with all the drama. What he's saying is essentially speaking of drama, the reason that Biden got elected, I'm not trying to troll you or trigger you.

Starting point is 00:41:19 But the reason Biden got elected, at least we thought was like, can we just calm the temperatures of the drama and the nonsense? Nobody was like, Biden is the best guy ever. He's been in politics. Nobody. Here's no, we're people.

Starting point is 00:41:32 Even the people that voted for him, it was just like enough with the Trump and the trolling. And that's what got him elected. Listen, years ago, they would say there will never be a president from New York, you know, New York City, because what New York, the NA is like, right? The Chris Christie, oh, he's too much. He's too much. He had one of those town hall meetings.

Starting point is 00:41:51 I don't know if you remember like 15 years ago or 12 years ago. And he put the Slade in a place and said, wow, video went viral like, yeah, but that would never work in Alabama. That would never work in Iowa. And that's just not a model. So if you know George Steinburner, if you know New York, if you know Gotti, if you know the people that came out of New York, the athletes, the politicians, the business people,

Starting point is 00:42:12 that's New York. It's very normal of a New York. So anybody that lives outside of New York is not used to that. George Steinberger fired the head coach, not the head coach is Skipper. What do you want to call him? The head coach.

Starting point is 00:42:26 The head coach. General manager. Not the general manager. Yeah, the manager. He fired and rehired the guy three times. He did it once on national television. He's like, you're fired. And he's like, what are you talking about?

Starting point is 00:42:38 You're fired. You can't fire me like this. And then brought him back and brought fire him again. It's a little bit of a New York DNA that the rest of the world is just not used to. And he tried to bring that to politics. Well, I mean, it obviously worked in some areas and it didn't work in some areas. It was Billy Martin as the coach. Yeah, Billy Martin, but yeah,

Starting point is 00:42:55 I will say this, what people have to give Trump credit for, whether you like him or not, a New York billionaire Goes into the deep south in Alabama and he's like I'm just like you guys. I'm just an everyday guy I'm a gun to a guy believe like and these guys whether you're in Madison, Wisconsin or you know Baloxie Mrs. Cippy or Alabama or West Virginia coal mine country. You're like, that's my guy, honk honk with the horn. It's like, that is so not worth. That says more about Republicans than it does about that. Well, that too, but I don't know if that was the brand.

Starting point is 00:43:31 But how he was able to to market that. That wasn't his brand though. He didn't come and say, I'm like you, you say that. No, he didn't. No, he says, I understand you, the guy. I'm a man. I'm for you. I'm for you.

Starting point is 00:43:43 I love to poorly educate it. And by the you. I'm for you. I love to poorly educate. And by the way, I know how I know how you can succeed and do deference. Everyone is poorly educated at this point because our education system. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So current education system, what do you think about the current education system that we have? That's a really broad question. Well, like opinions to go for it give us a

Starting point is 00:44:07 yeah uh... opinion on things that don't know anything about you want to talk about colleges you don't have a like a big well you think go go through both you know yesterday cal had a lot of strong opinions on you know we should forgive all the college at all that stuff but i'm talking more the format like our educational system k-12 and he can go into college as well. I read a quote a long time ago.

Starting point is 00:44:27 I don't remember who it was from, but the quote that I read was that if you would have pulled somebody out of the 18th century and you would have transport them into today, the only thing they would recognize would be the schools, that like we have a way of educating people and we've done it for like hundreds of years and we have to be-

Starting point is 00:44:42 That quote completely falls. Okay, well it's like- We didn't have schools in the 1700s. Nobody got educated anywhere in the 1700s. We didn't have schools in the 1700s. We didn't have schools. You're saying that they would recognize the schools. They're not schools in England or whatever people

Starting point is 00:44:57 weren't like getting. There must have been some sort of schools. But not schools. Okay, colleges, I'm sorry. But not schools. So they wouldn't recognize the school system. Okay, what is our terms? Does college and I count as school or?

Starting point is 00:45:10 Mm-hmm. Okay. When you say schools, you mean K through 12. We call college colleges. Okay, well, I don't mean that, but maybe for the purpose of this conversation, we can mean that. Okay, college is a separate thing from school. I feel like there are a couple of, we're talking about classes. I feel like there are a few basic classes that like every student should be required to take

Starting point is 00:45:29 that we don't. So things like a basic home at class. I think a basic psych and a basic philosophy course, I think would be really important. Just a couple of the things that help us like exist in the world and like file our taxes and be like a little bit critical of like the things we watch.

Starting point is 00:45:46 And then I know that largely speaking, I know that we've got troubles in schools that throwing more money, at least in some places, doesn't seem to help, but I think schools are hard because sometimes that's like the last stop of like a whole bunch of problems prior to that, right? If you've got a kid coming from like a single parent family who's not getting much sleep, whose household

Starting point is 00:46:02 is in like a really, you know, fucked up area, you know, at that point how much kind of particular like K through 12 school actually do for the child? I'm not entirely sure. Past that if we're talking about colleges. I think colleges are pretty okay in the United States. We have our really good schools, if people all around the world come to get educated in. I think that people opt too much for out-of-state schools. You've got people talking about I've got you know 200,000 in debt and I was like, schools, if people all around the world come to get educated in. I think that people opt too much for out-of-state schools.

Starting point is 00:46:25 You've got people talking about, I've got, you know, 200,000 in debt. And I was like, okay, cool, are you a doctor? And they're like, no, I'm like a mechanical engineer, but I did like seven years of like out-of-state, you know, plus tuition and board and everything. And it's like, why the fuck did you do that? But yeah, I think largely speaking, I think that like the college stuff is okay. I'm not a big fan of student loan forgiveness. Why not? that like the college stuff is okay. I'm not a big fan of student loan forgiveness.

Starting point is 00:46:46 Why not? Okay, I, coming from like a working poor background before I got under streaming, I feel like the middle class asked for a lot of tax breaks sometimes, when I look at like really working poor people, I'm like, damn, these people are fucked, okay? And you wanna have your student loan debt forgiven when you're gonna go on to become some of the like, the top tier earners and all of society.

Starting point is 00:47:05 I think if you look at the, I know that the, yeah, the cost of education is grown, but the average amount of time to pay back a degree based on getting a degree, I think is about the same as it always has been. 20 years. To pay back your debt, that's the average. I think it's, I thought it was 15, but it might be 20, I guess, anyway. Maybe for, you know, yeah, but like, go getters like you, you can do it in 15, but on average, it gets 19, 20 years. Maybe, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:27 But the people that earn college degrees go on to become the highest earners in society. So if we're gonna target stimulus towards any part of like the economy, I'd rather go towards people that are like working poor and not towards people that are like engineers that just wanna get rid of like a $500, $600 a month like student loan to pay. You're saying targeting stimulus?

Starting point is 00:47:44 Talk or anything? Like rather than spend the money to pay off people's debt that they chose to incur themselves in order to get ahead in this life. That's going to be rewarded for. Well, there are limits to it. And by the way, the whole Biden $10,000 student loan didn't pass, correct?

Starting point is 00:48:02 This was something. It didn't happen. It got dropped down. I think it's in the, it's installed in the spring court. I want to say, I think it's in the new, point is nobody got the $10,000 or $20,000. Your rate is open and I know people were putting in applications. I don't know if anybody's gotten it yet. Don't get me started on these sites,

Starting point is 00:48:18 they're crashing on the websites. But the, the, but there were limitations. I think if you made over $150,000 a year, you did not qualify. Yeah. And then people with pal grants were qualified for up to 20,000. Right. If you were going to do it, I think it was probably the best way to do it. And it's a maybe a good way to get young people to go even though they don't otherwise. You even point this out. Like, I'll say this, college prep and career readiness is a Ponzi scheme. They got your kid for 12 years. they've already convinced you, and they've

Starting point is 00:48:45 got 12 years to convince the kid, you need to go to college because if you don't go to college, you're screwed. And so you got to go to college, and what is that? That's just, you got to pay a lot of money to a school somewhere so that you have a college degree. And in nowhere in school, do they say, why you have to go to college? It's just so that you can earn the money. And nowhere in school do they say, why you have to go to college? It's just so that you can earn the money. But it's not like, let's make a plan for you. If you go to this school, it will cost you $80,000 total over four years, and then you have this potential of this earning.

Starting point is 00:49:15 No, you can go for basket weaving and get $200,000 in debt or whatever. And you're completely unemployable. And so my point is, the whole thing is at this point, it's just a Ponzi scheme. It might be based on data that came from 50 years ago, but at this point, you know, we got to wake up and smell the coffee. Kids don't necessarily have to go to college.

Starting point is 00:49:38 And you went to school, you graduated. No, I failed. Okay. Well, I had to work too much, yeah. Right. So you're a dropout. Wait, I failed. Okay. Well, I had to work too much. Yeah, yeah. So you're a dropout. Wait, Zuckerberg.

Starting point is 00:49:47 Zuckerberg. No, not everybody can do what I do though. I got really lucky. No, but Zuckerberg's a dropout. Gates is a dropout. No, no, algebra and you quit school, you're not gonna become the next Git and the next Git and the next Git is Zuckerberg. But bear with me, what I'm saying is you do not have to have a college degree to succeed in life.

Starting point is 00:50:12 And so setting up a child and saying you have to have a college degree in order to succeed is a false paradigm. It's just false. There are a lot of people who succeed. In fact, most of my friends, I don't know, did you graduate? Okay, most of my friends, I don't know, did you, did you graduate? Okay, most of my friends who are entrepreneurs, who are self-starters, who are successful in life, did not go to college and did not graduate, or did go to college for a short term and figured it out and didn't graduate. And so my point is, it's a Ponzi scheme.

Starting point is 00:50:40 I, if I may. Now they're all in debt and now they're all saying, hey, government, bail me out. I think, I think you're doing a disservice to college. Hear me out. Because there's parts of what you're saying that I agree with and there's parts of what you're saying that I just think is not the best portrayal of this. Only the other person I've ever met

Starting point is 00:50:57 is actually to defend college on a show. Yeah, well, yeah, I'm curious. Because there's different jokes for different folks. When you say that college is a Ponzi scheme, it depends on, this is why I think the decisions you're making when you're 17 and 18 are the most important decisions in your life, like, where am I going to school? You really have to do the ROI on college.

Starting point is 00:51:16 Because it's been proven that a high school completely unprepared to make those decisions. Totally agree. You know, it's wasted on the young. That's true. But it's been proven that if you look at the math, that if a high school degree, you'll earn a million dollars over your lifetime.

Starting point is 00:51:30 A million dollars. A thousand dollars. A million dollars. Exactly. Two million dollars, what you will earn on a college degree. Okay. And then as you get a PhD or a master's, you can earn lifetime earnings on average, three, four,

Starting point is 00:51:44 five million. Right. now for every Bill Gates that drops out and Mark Zuckerberg that drops out or PPD that is go to college There's hundreds and thousands of people that are just average people So that's why I totally agree with you with this. Here's the problem that that I think this lacking in America is There's a need for technical schools, right? These vocational schools. But the problem is, if you're gonna go to high school, right, you're gonna go K through 12,

Starting point is 00:52:10 and you're taking all these classes, algebra, biology, math, this, they say, hey, by the way, after high school, you should go become a plumber. What 18 year old kid is gonna be like, I've been in school this whole time, and now you want me to go back to being a plumber, and what they don't understand is

Starting point is 00:52:24 some plumbers will make a hundred grand a year and you might only make forty grand a year maybe with your liberal arts to New York and well okay but so you're making my point for me. No but the point is this is that that no very few people are going to go through school for eighteen years or twelve years and then be like all right let me go be a plumber or a sewage guy or a garbage man But even though the ROI on that is greater than that's true. Sometimes a college degree only because of the whole college prep and career readiness Ponzi scheme. That's the only reason that's why is it a Ponzi scheme if you get exactly you get Because of because of it's like a pyramid scheme

Starting point is 00:53:01 It's like you pay in on the bottom, and then as more people pay in, you will get more money on the outcome. Yeah, but you don't get that. Except that for a lot of people, they don't get that call. That's only when you get to indoctrination of that you have to go to the, some out of state school and spend 50 grand a year.

Starting point is 00:53:18 If you're okay with going to community college and taking basic classes and paying your way, what's the thing? You can get out of college. That's not a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme relies for you to get the money at the top from new people coming out of the bottom. That's right.

Starting point is 00:53:32 But if you go and get a degree in nuclear engineering, you're not getting money from the school, you go out in the job market, and you get paid in the job market. That's not a Ponzi scheme. Well, it is because when the government comes in and bails out everybody's student loans and all of that, then it's all of a piece.

Starting point is 00:53:48 It's like a whole feeder thing. Yeah, but that doesn't happen yet, too. If school, how many Ponzi games could you kill immediately? And like every single person that is like graduated would still be making money. That's a Ponzi scheme. But, okay, so my point is that it's a setup. Okay, because there are plenty of kids who really shouldn't be going to college. But okay, so my point is that it's a setup, okay? Because there are plenty of kids who really shouldn't be going to college.

Starting point is 00:54:09 They're much better served not going to college. And there are plenty of kids in college who are being diserved by being taught things that simply aren't true about themselves and about life in general. That's a different story. So for me, I think what you guys are saying is everybody here has a point and everybody here is making a good counterargument to the other person. This is what I would say.

Starting point is 00:54:27 To say all of it, like I want doctors to go to college. Like STEM is, I don't think you're saying that. I think STEM, you need to go to school for STEM. I'm not gonna have somebody work on my dad's heart that's never gone to school and hasn't gone and done, you know, additional things you need to be a heart surgeon. Yeah, I want. And I'm not saying that nobody should go to college. done, you know, additional things you need to be a heart surgeon. Yeah, I want.

Starting point is 00:54:45 And I'm not saying that nobody should go to college. Right, you're saying. What I'm saying is that the rule shouldn't be simply applied. I think the part I have a challenge with is the following area. The part I have a challenge with is the fact that, you know, for every one conservative professor, there's 13 liberal. That's the problem. For every like, for example, the one thing you got to give

Starting point is 00:55:05 so much credit to the left is they understood if you want to control the way people think, go control universities. Okay. You got to do that. But by the way, Republicans were lazy on it. They have one school, which is what? Hillsdale, and maybe you got a couple other Christian schools

Starting point is 00:55:21 that you got, you know, Bible schools that you got, what else do the Republicans? Even Duke nowadays is what?, is on the left. In this too, yeah. Duke is not the Duke of 30 years ago. Yeah, Harvard, so what the Republicans rather than taking the money that they had and creating some real universities,

Starting point is 00:55:35 they just said, now I'm gonna go out there and just do my business stuff. That's what I'm gonna be doing. I'm not gonna go out, you need a pen? Yeah. Give them a pen, if you don't mind. Yeah, thank you. So I think that part is a mistake of the right.

Starting point is 00:55:45 You know, like right now, the left is losing their minds because Elon Musk bought Twitter. Why? Because they've been controlling media for how long now? God knows how long. That's strategically a good move on them. So Elon comes in, he starts exposing everything

Starting point is 00:55:59 and they're like, yeah, Twitter files, don't even talk about it on mainstream media. There's scared shitless. That's how you compete. You compete that way. I, I, I, yeah, Twitter files don't even talk about it on mainstream media. There's scared shitless. That's how you compete. You compete that way. I, I, I, we've lost the competition because they've now, they've, they've indoctrinated all of the teachers K through 12. So our schools are gone.

Starting point is 00:56:16 That's a lazy side of Republican though. Do you think, but it doesn't matter because it's the kids now that are, I don't disagree with, I don't disagree with you. And you think that we, we have think that we have a chance to fight for the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment is gone because all of the kids today that are going to, to zero tolerance schools are learning that guns are bad.

Starting point is 00:56:38 Yeah, full stop. But, okay, so then the question for me becomes, if, as a capitalist and a person myself that I'm physically conservative, as a capitalist, I like to say, what are you doing about a path? That's my ammo in my family life. What am I doing about it? Okay? Perfect.

Starting point is 00:56:58 If that's what Republicans stand for, what are you doing about a personal responsibility, then dammit Republicans take some personal responsibility and ask yourself, how many universities have you started? How many schools have you started? How much time have you put into it? Why don't you take your top 40, 50 richest billion at Republicans and say, set us, you really wanna do this,

Starting point is 00:57:17 I'm gonna give 100% of my money away. To what? Bolshea Chair, you know why don't you? Stop spending your money to these institutions just because you graduated. Because they're not united and they're lazy. Get together and say here's $50 billion over the next 20 years to build some incredible campuses and universities to compete against the Harvards and the Yale's and the Berkeley's

Starting point is 00:57:40 and all this other stuff. How about we go do that and they're not doing that. I totally agree with that. And I will add, save the children now. Save the children now. Do not put your children in school. Because any school. You're saying that in college. School, school.

Starting point is 00:57:56 School, that's K through 12. K through 12, okay. What can we agree that education is at least a quest for knowledge? Sure. Education should be a quest for knowledge. Sure. That's the first thing you learn. Fundamentally, yeah.

Starting point is 00:58:07 What's the first thing you learn to do in school if you want to ask them? Sit down and shut up. Don't be here. Raise your hands, darn it. Raise your hand to ask a question. You need permission to ask. You can't just ask questions.

Starting point is 00:58:15 You need permission first. You have to draw attention to yourself. This is an embodied lesson. You're embodying this lesson of don't ask, okay? And we said that the education is a quest for knowledge. That begins with what? You're embodying this lesson of don't ask, okay? And we said that the education is a quest for knowledge. That begins with what? A question, the first thing you learn in school

Starting point is 00:58:30 is don't question. By the way, we're living in a whole era right now of don't question. No questions are allowed. Well, watch this. Can I ask you a question? Yes, ask me a question and don't raise your hand. Ma'am, can I, please?

Starting point is 00:58:43 Well, I think the format of school, which has consistently been there for 100 plus years now, was based on the factory workers and duscia revolution, get in line, fall in line, stay in line, that whole thing. But I want to hone in on what you do. You're a major advocate on homeschooling. So I'm sure you can go on for days, the pros of it. But my question is, what are the pros and cons

Starting point is 00:59:06 of homeschooling? I have a lot of friends there doing homeschooling right now. Pat's kids are in private school. I went to public school my whole life, and then at the end of high school, I went to private school. I've done it all. The last thing that I ever wanted to do in my life

Starting point is 00:59:18 was be home with my parents and learn from my parents. Like homeschooling was not an option for me. So what are the pros and cons that you're seeing from being a homeschool? So let me say this, my relationship with my teenagers is amazing, okay? You want a good relationship with your children? Do not send them away from you for eight hours a day. Do not do that.

Starting point is 00:59:37 Zero do that. Yeah, okay. I just with my parents, I would have never. I'm in the dead end. Well, you guys can't comment because your waters were, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, You can't say because you can't say because you don't have the experience of not having the school come between you and your parents. The thing that when you drop your child off at school, you are tacitly telling the child, I abdicate my responsibility.

Starting point is 01:00:14 I cannot be responsible. The school is responsible. The school has authority. My authority is now challenged inside my own home, inside my own home. The moment that the school disagrees with whatever, you lose. The school. That's part of life.

Starting point is 01:00:28 No, it's not. I disagree. You're wrong. My teenagers have never rebelled. Your teenagers have to follow a different set of rules depending on what environment they're in. If they go to a friend's house, that friend's house might have a different set of rules

Starting point is 01:00:40 that they have to play. Not if they challenge my rules. If you're, let's say that I don't know if this is the case for you, but if your house, let's say you guys were shoes in your house, because you do that and you don't care. And if they go to another friend's house and then their house, the rule is no shoes in the house,

Starting point is 01:00:54 they can't, I mean, they could challenge that parent's authority, but it would be. The rule is respect, right? The rule is respect. Okay, but if you're gonna make it that broad, and you decide the same for school, you respect what your teacher tells you, right? My point is the teacher sets up this conundrum

Starting point is 01:01:06 inside the child. So daddy is authority except that now the teacher is the authority and daddy told me that the teacher is the authority. So now I trust the teacher. And by the way, as we know, and I don't know what private school, but we know in public schools,

Starting point is 01:01:20 there's a lot of challenge to parental rights and parental authority. And that sets up a huge conundrum for the child. That's child abuse. Can you just go back to my initial question? Obviously, you're gonna be an advocate of homeschooling. I'm not trying to sway your opinion. I don't say homeschooling anymore

Starting point is 01:01:36 because school is child abuse. The whole idea. You got a whole far right directive on this. But let's go back to the question. What's the pros and cons of home education? Okay, so what are the pros and cons? Give me like maybe the top three pros and maybe some cons if you would.

Starting point is 01:01:54 The founders of the nation, geniuses, right? Sure. Geniuses, they created this. This is the greatest leap in prosperity. The four fathers were total G, 100%. Never went to school. Top G is one might say. Top G's.

Starting point is 01:02:09 Never went to school. Yes. What, what, what, what, what, as you said, there were no schools back then. Hold on, I just want to quick, quick fact check for the audience. So if people start looking up Benjamin Franklin, George, all these people, none of these people were educated in any institution

Starting point is 01:02:23 outside the home. There were no tutors brought in outside. There were no like teachers anywhere. They didn't go to any sort of class. But that's not the question. The question is, did they go to school? They didn't go to school. Okay, but what were they educated by their parents at home, like a homeschooler would do to their parents? Perhaps. Well, you're the one making the claim. Is that true? That they were educated? Well, I'm saying, we didn't have schools, so they didn't go to school. But go on with your point, fair enough.

Starting point is 01:02:45 We're going for pros and cons of homeschooling. I'm trying to get this answer. So my point is the freedom model, right? Created this. You got it. Benjamin Franklin, do you know what he did? He did a lot of stuff. Everything.

Starting point is 01:02:58 Yeah, of course. But what our system does is it pigeonholes the child and it says, you need to do this or you need to do that. You need to choose, You can't do both. It also says, um, don't try. That's one of the paradigms in school because failure's bad. Okay. Failure is bad. What's the key to entrepreneurship? Try try try again. You fail. Yeah, of course. You fail and you get back up and you try again. All right. But the school paradigm is failure's bad. That red F on a white sheet of paper, that's bad. So don't try.

Starting point is 01:03:28 That's the subtext, that's the underlying message. Or one might say don't try to, don't fail. Okay. Yeah, how do you get A's if you don't try? But keep going, okay, keep going. Okay. I'm looking for pros and cons here, just to be a further reminder. Okay, so the pros are the family relationship.

Starting point is 01:03:44 Sure. That's a huge pro. Okay, so the pros are the family relationship. That's a huge pro. The freedom that the child has to pursue his and eight giftings, right? And so there's a lot of freedom built in. There's a lot less time spent on quote education. And let's just talk about academics for a little bit, because the school focused very much on academics.

Starting point is 01:04:05 So we believe that education is academic, right? I mean, when you define education, how do you define education? It is a very broad word. Well, your child goes to school to what end? Why was he learning? Well, they go to school to learn things, but generally to prepare them to exist in the world

Starting point is 01:04:22 as probably a functioning unit of the economy. But one of the criticisms that you had of school is it doesn't prepare them, because it doesn't teach homeic, it doesn't teach. I didn't say it didn't prepare them period. It prepares you for the future job, hopefully, that you hold, and it kind of rounds you out of the person you learn other thing.

Starting point is 01:04:35 Do you know that school today, that the jobs that the schools are preparing children for are going to be gone in the next 15 years? No. I think if you go to school jobs that no that that are being created that will be created in the next 15 years the schools aren't preparing children that might be true

Starting point is 01:04:52 but I mean but who do you think it's gonna have how many do you how many besides you do you two of kids who's got four I got zero you if you had kids would you send them a college or no well that's not the question would you would you send them a college or no the well that's not the question well it's not a school would you would you would you send your kids to college depending on what they want to do yeah

Starting point is 01:05:11 just so you know for me it's more on stamp like my kids colleges to let me let me give you an idea about what my thoughts are this i don't think homeschooling is for everybody i do think more people should consider homeschooling uh... right now we have about three.7 million homeschool students in America. It's a bigger number than I thought by the way. I'm looking at the day right now. Well, it almost doubled because of COVID.

Starting point is 01:05:30 Yeah, and I'm not surprised. Well, that's a black one. I think it's won a vent. COVID also probably encouraged parents to say, you know what? I kind of don't want to put my kids in school. I don't like what they're doing. So it was a bad read for the show. Right, no problem.

Starting point is 01:05:43 I'm for the average person that doesn't want to do home like my wife doesn't want to do homeschool We've talked about it. She doesn't want to do it She's like not much better to have the kids go to school so they go to a private Christian school and we're happy about it My concern is the values and principles being forced down kids throughout today When you're talking to them and And that is a, to do that too early, makes me a little bit uncomfortable. Didn't you just recently say you had a conversation? I feel like, I feel like you had a conversation

Starting point is 01:06:12 about LGBT with your kids recently or something that you kind of worked for. That's one of the reasons. No, that's right. And the exposure, not just to like what's being taught in the schools, but the exposure to the culture that comes from the other children. Show absolutely.

Starting point is 01:06:26 So all of that is like this nefariousness from the culture that's feeding in to the kids who are in school today. Yeah. But we used to say that education was the three arts, right? The three arts, it's academics. And that was the big thing is like, take the Bible out of school. What's the three arts?

Starting point is 01:06:44 You know, reading, recess, and arithmetic? Yeah, reading, right? It's not even three hours. Like we know that it's a lie. And yet we sort of like laugh and move on. But it's not. Education is the whole doctrine. Education should be focused on the whole child

Starting point is 01:07:00 and how to manage that child into adulthood. You're raising the parents of your grandchildren. You're not raising children. You're raising the parents of your grandchildren. You're not raising children. You're raising the parents of your grandchildren. So keep your eye on the prize. What do you want for them from their lives? And the school teaches college prep and career readiness. That's the whole focus of the schools

Starting point is 01:07:18 is to get those kids into college. College prep and career readiness makes the value of the child his earning. If there's one thing I will say is, I don't trust in the public educational system. I don't. If a person can make money, if the person can make money enough money, like you know how people just sell the dream on, hey go make money, sing your biofraury or Lambo or if you can go make money to get your kids out of public school, to put them in a private school that's teaching the values and principles that align with you, go make your money for that.

Starting point is 01:07:50 That'll be better worth of your money being spent and going to buy an fancy car or a dream house. Yeah, I'm not a fan of what's going on public schools. Yeah, so someone to do homeschooling and some can take the alternative and put them in a good private school. I fully agree with Pat. And I get you again, I've been to public private, but I do want to get this question answered

Starting point is 01:08:08 because, no, because there's a lot of people considering homeschooling and that's great. Ben Franklin, everything, the household. Are you willing to at least acknowledge that there are some cons and what are the cons? Sure. So, well, first of all, so we call it home schooling. But the problem is that means we're taking the school paradigm

Starting point is 01:08:30 and adopting it in our homes. And I think that that's basically the Trojan horse, right? We're allowing the school paradigm to invade our homes. And the school paradigm is not a learning paradigm. It's a don't ask, don't try, don't think paradigm. So it's the anti a learning paradigm. It's a don't ask, don't try, don't think paradigm. So it's the anti-learning paradigm. That's why I bristle at the word homeschooling. And that's why his wife doesn't want a homeschool,

Starting point is 01:08:53 because she doesn't like school. She didn't have a good time in school. So why don't you just doesn't want to spend her entire day teaching four kids? Well, because she believes that it takes the entire day, because we've been brainwashed by the system to think that school takes the entire day. But the only reason it takes the entire day is because parents were working and they said, hey, give us your children while you're working, and we'll keep them for the full day. But school doesn't

Starting point is 01:09:17 take education, doesn't take the entire day. So what are the cons? So it's a completely different paradigm. So the cons. What are the cons. The cons of homeschooling is trying to replicate the school at home. That's a disaster. And in fact, the parents who choose the K through 12, which is like the public school curriculum, they choose to do that at home. They have the highest recidivism rate. And they put their kids back in school because they can't do it. it's it's a it's a setup Okay, you went to school for 12 years and you were taught you can't He does Like you can't do anything I get mad I can't vibes

Starting point is 01:09:56 Yeah, exactly How much social interaction do your kids have with all their peers? So my son is an extreme extrovert. He's got two and a half million followers on TikTok. I'm talking about it in real life. He has two and a half million followers. So many friends, it's being like that. Real life, Sam.

Starting point is 01:10:13 Real life friends. No, how much interaction. I went to a conference and I sat next to a young guy and had some nice interactions with him. He ran all the AV stuff for the conference. I go home, I'm telling my son about this conference. He goes, yeah, I know you were sitting next to Josiah. He's a friend of mine. That he met online. No, that he met in person. I'm asking, okay, forget about your famous

Starting point is 01:10:33 TikTok son. You have how many kids? Three. Three. I'm asking how much social interaction they have with other kids. I a lot and I have to ask you why you're asking that. Okay. I'll I can I I'll my fear is that they're probably I'm not saying your kids if you're doing homeschooling and you're hanging out with mommy and daddy every day my fear is that you're not interacting with your peers. One of the things that I fear what what I mean because you got to get out there and and and be a part of the world. My fear is that this I don't have kids, but I have a nephew that I basically help raise.

Starting point is 01:11:09 He's a 10-year-old kid, he goes to a great public school in Miami. That's hard to believe, I get it. My fear for him is that he's being bullied or he's learning how to bully. But I don't operate in fear, I operate in reality. He's not being bullied. If anything, he's doing the bullying.

Starting point is 01:11:22 You're operating in a place. Yeah, I can. But my fear would be that I'm home with mom and dad every single day, I have like some sort of mommy edipous complex going on. And I don't have any interaction with any kids my age, with I'm not on a sports team. I don't interact.

Starting point is 01:11:38 I'm sorry, that's not. It's not completely bull. No, that's even made a TikTok account. Yeah, you created this whole false paradigm. No, because I'll tell you that that home school is being home at what? Let me tell you some of my best memories of school and anyone out there is watching this. It isn't in class raising your hand.

Starting point is 01:11:55 It's in between halls recess, talking to a hot chick over there, understanding social dynamics, socializing. What are we doing during recess? Oh, those kids are smoking cigarettes, holy shit. I don't wanna smoke. Let me go over here. Those are the gangs during recess? Oh those kids are smoking cigarettes holy shit I don't want to smoke let me go over here. Those are the gangs. I mean I go over there I'm on a sports team right now cool. There's my best friend. Hey buddy good to see you. Yeah, that is what school is my kids And they get none of that at home. They don't get they don't they absolutely do not get none of that at home school

Starting point is 01:12:20 You're setting up to see you in between period. What do they get to see? You're setting up this. See you in between period. What do they get to see? As specific. They have much more social interaction than they would. And you be specific. Where? Where?

Starting point is 01:12:31 Well, my kids all did sports. They all went to piano. Wait, wait, what kind of sport? How do you do sports? We did. We, you actually participate with schools. You just participate with the school sports. They let you, they just like send kids to play.

Starting point is 01:12:42 Or the non school sports leagues. Gotcha. They, by the way, they went shopping shopping with me so they had plenty of interaction with people. Real people adults in the stores for instance. They went to events with me. So they had plenty of it. My kids all grew up on film sets. So they had plenty of interaction with people of all stripes on film sets. So so the idea that somehow they're just home, you're painting me as if I grew up, or I raised my kids in some backwater in Georgia

Starting point is 01:13:11 and prevented them from seeing people. And that's just a fall, what about- There's some homeschools in Georgia right now that are very offended. Yeah, okay. What about the kids who go to school who can't talk to anybody because they're extreme introverts

Starting point is 01:13:23 and the schools actually like kill them because they they are so burdened by all of the interaction like you can't just paint one picture and say wait totally agree with you I there you made a very clear case of why you should do homeschooling that's great but I think it'd be unfair to acknowledge that there are certain situations where they're not the best approach so like for instance destiny myself, if my mom or my dad were trying to be my home school teacher, I would flunk out of school and I would skip class if you know what I mean, every single day. That's because they've got the school paradigm into the home. I enjoyed school. I enjoyed interacting with others. That has helped me become a salesperson

Starting point is 01:13:59 and entrepreneur and understanding networking social dynamics. That actually worked out well for me. So what I'm saying is like, not every kid should just go to homeschool period and of story. There's pros and cons to everything. Listen, if you're religious you go to CCD. There are after school clubs you can send your kids to. There's plenty of socials at CCD. Like Christian education for kids. Like if you wanted to send a private school but you homeschool them instead you send them to those things. Sunday school. There are lots of co-ops and plenty of kinds of paradigms for kids to have. Maybe your bad relationship with your parents is because you were conditioned at such an early

Starting point is 01:14:30 age and spend so much time away from them when you went to the school. To be clear, I love my mom if she's watching. I love my mom. Well, you sound like you couldn't be schooled by her. That's true. And maybe that's because the school got between you and your mom at an early age. Yeah, listen, I think it is an argument that's being made and I think more people ought to consider homeschooling, but I don't think it's for everybody. Here's some statistics to look at

Starting point is 01:14:47 3.7 homeschool students in U.S. state what the most homeschoolers are Carolina Florida Georgia Tap 3 reasons for homeschooling is concerned about school environment Tap reason homeschool students outperform institutional school students academically interesting the highest homeschooling rate is Amongstudents with a grade equivalent of six to eight school students academically, interesting. The highest home schooling rate is among students with a grade equivalent of six to eight, 48% of homeschooling households have three or more children. The average cost of homeschooling is $700 to $1800 per student per year.

Starting point is 01:15:16 Wow, it's a big savings. One in three homeschooling households has an annual income over $100,000 and homeschooling saves $56 billion of taxpayer money annually. Go a little lower to show which state has the most. It was interesting to see was number one. Keep going down. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. You'll see Carolina. Carolina is number one with 10.4%. Keep going. Right there. Okay. 10.6% of all the students in Carolina or homeschooling. Did you know that? It is by far the North. You know where they're from. It's a big number.

Starting point is 01:15:46 Why is that? Yeah, Florida's 4.6. And it's Georgia, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, Minnesota, South Carolina, Massachusetts, Nebraska. It's infective. It's infectious. I think when you meet children who have been home educated, they're a cut above. They are more adult because they haven't been coddled.

Starting point is 01:16:05 The schools tend to coddle children and infantilize them and make them feel like they can't. And so children who grow up in a homeschool environment, they do chores at home. They have a responsibility to the family that's more cemented, right? They're more of a locus focused or whatever. And so I think that, and they're more cemented, right? They're more of a locus focused or whatever.

Starting point is 01:16:25 And so I think that, and they're more conscientious, they tend to be more conscientious with their work because there's the paradigm between them and the parent, not a teacher that changes every year or every semester or what, my son and second grade had two teachers and they just alternated days. And I was like, that's not

Starting point is 01:16:45 a great paradigm for a kid to go back and forth between a different teacher every day. So there's so much to recommend it. And there's so little to recommend against it. And the socialization argument is this cropped up, this sort of straw man argument that they've built up as a way of sort of saying, hey, but school is good for this. And I'm like, no, the idea is school is supposed to educate the child. So we're talking education. You want to bring in socialization?

Starting point is 01:17:16 I'm like, I don't care because every choice is a binary choice. And the reason that we know that is because you have your priorities. So if you prioritize the education of your child, then education is first, and socialization is, well, I'll get that figured out once I get education handled, okay? So there is absolutely no argument you can make for socialization that would say the child should be in school. When I lose the education argument, the argument's done.

Starting point is 01:17:51 Let's say I fully agree with you. And by the way, you're making a great case. I'm not being argumentative, but I think there are. Oh, calls. I think, let's go. That's trolley right now. I think there are rules and I think there are exceptions. I think what you are doing is exceptionally the exception. Because even like let's take out North Carolina, which

Starting point is 01:18:09 is the complete anomaly here, 10% of kids. So I don't know what happened in North Carolina. But every other state, you're talking about two to 5% of children. So there's 90 to 95% of kids that are never ever ever gonna be homeschooled. Whose parents don't have enough confidence in themselves having gone K through 12, having graduated high school, do not have enough confidence in themselves to even teach their children the third grade. Is that really what it is?

Starting point is 01:18:38 They were not even in an early age with the school system. It's the only thing they know. So their whole life is a binary like my Katie, there goes to school, here's a loser. How could a parent like that be in a state of mind to even begin to homeschool their kid? I don't know if you're trolling me with that comment, right there.

Starting point is 01:18:51 I just go to them, everything you said, sorry. I'm just fine with that. What do you wholeheartedly disagree with Sam on? And you have an 11 year old, so you can speak to this. He's like, but he's making a really great case. Yeah, but I think they're insane cases. I don't agree with anything almost. Like even the numbers in here.

Starting point is 01:19:04 I'm fine with that. You're still making a case and you're and you're being highly effective. Sure. Even the numbers over here were crazy that $600 to $1,500 a year. I'm guessing that's only spent on curriculum like on books and stuff. But that doesn't. Yeah, but there's something in economics, you learn called opportunity cost and having a parent stay at home for the entire day. That's 30, 40, 50,000 a year in lost income if they were working a job on the other hand. Yeah, but you would say that parent would insist that their child go to a private school. That could be 20 grand, 30 grand.

Starting point is 01:19:31 I don't know what's going on. I mean, if you're going to a really expensive private school, it could be that. No, that's what school is called. That was our choice. That was our choice, right? I mean, I've let the two, I want to send my kid to the high school that I went to,

Starting point is 01:19:40 which was a private high school. And I think that's 15,000 a year right now. Okay. But I understand cost are going to change in different areas. I think the socialization argument is a valid one. I think there's a lot of stuff that's being hidden in terms of what you're advocating for in terms of host-willing. So, for instance, you keep saying this that eight hours a day is too much.

Starting point is 01:19:59 What do you think is the one? What is like the ideal amount of time a day it should take for instruction. And then two, what are the things that you want to cut out? I'm curious. Cut ass. By the way, before you answer that, I think it would be great since we're on this topic and before we move on, Robert,

Starting point is 01:20:12 are you able to do a poll from our audience if they're an advocate of homeschooling or if they're, I would like to get maybe some numbers from the audience. Well, if home learning, would you please? Yeah, please do not call it homeschooling. Do not stay in that paradigm, that dichotomy, that false dichotomy of homeschooling.

Starting point is 01:20:25 He was asking a good question. Yeah, you can do a poll without having to stop him. Go ahead, ask the question you were asking. Yeah, my two questions would be one, is what do you want to cut from instruction? Because it sounded like you were saying, eight hours is way too much, you could do it in way less. And then two, what is the daily amount of instruction

Starting point is 01:20:39 you think you need? How many hours a day or 30 minutes? How long do you think you need to spend it? Okay, so I home educated, and I actually homeschooled, so I'm culpable here, right? This is an educated saying. But no, I homeschooled them, okay?

Starting point is 01:20:52 Because I bought on, I bought into the whole paradigm, and I thought school was education. So for several years, I homeschooled my children until I figured out that the freedom model is a much better model, and the freedom model is a much better model and the school model is a failed paradigm, right? Because I felt inadequate. I went to Duke University, I speak five languages.

Starting point is 01:21:13 I felt completely inadequate to educate my own children. Just to refocus, I wanna know how long you think the instructor being, what do you wanna come from? So I spent roughly three hours at the kitchen table with my young children every day, all three of them, three hours. The rest of the day, they pursued instruction, the rest of the day, a few more hours during the day. They pursued instruction, but they didn't need direct instruction from me. They didn't even need me for those three hours. I just chose to be at the kitchen table available to them,

Starting point is 01:21:44 getting my work done because I worked full time. I wrote a book and I also did three hours radio I just chose to be at the kitchen table available to them, getting my work done, because I worked full time. I wrote a book, and I also did three hours of radio every day. So I was also working. And then one day a week we had a, let's see, when they were very young, we didn't do, we didn't do the co-op, then we started doing the co-op and when my son entered seventh grade, actually before then, when they were fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, we did a full day of co-op. So that was from nine o'clock in the morning until three o'clock in the afternoon. Okay. And I spent the day with them there.

Starting point is 01:22:20 Did what do you, you said, how old are you three children now about, do you mind saying 21, 18 and 17? Got you. Did any of them or are any of them going to college? No, not yet. Did what do you you said how old are you three children know about you mind saying 21 18 and 17 got you Did any of them or are any of them going to college? No, not yet. Do you know what? So the 21 year old does TikTok he does TikTok and he does social media for people and he's an actor and do you know that the two younger ones want to do So my my second Seems to like engineering, but he's questioning whether college is the way to get to the cutting edge of engineering. So he's exploring his options right now. So what is your metric for success for homes

Starting point is 01:22:54 for only your children? Their happiness. That can't be the answer. No. No. If I let my kid run around for eight hours a day until he's 18, you'd be very happy. No. But that can't be the answer for education. Education should be the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness. So as long as I've equipped them to pursue truth, beauty, and goodness, then I know that they are well-granted. Okay.

Starting point is 01:23:18 So my mind is completely business-wide. So I'm thinking like KPIs, like, keep performance indicators. So if I educated my child from K through 12 in my home, one marker for success for me, I would think that if he performs well on like the ACT or the SAT, okay, he's, I've done a good job educating him, or if he goes to college and he's very successful, right, that's, or if he maybe gets a good job,

Starting point is 01:23:38 like a traditional job. Now if they do non-traditional work, that's cool, but I don't know how much of a bearing that is on like how well I educated him. Right? So I could probably set my kid up to be decently successful on YouTube just because I am. We started doing videos together.

Starting point is 01:23:51 But I don't know if that's showing that I educated him well or I'm just letting him piggyback off my career. So I'm curious in terms of how do you mark that you were successful or that your children had a positive experience doing the home learning thing as compared to a contemporary, as compared to somebody else at the same age. So to me, a marker of success is that my child can teach himself

Starting point is 01:24:12 and is not afraid to learn. So my children will teach themselves anything that they need to know and they're not afraid to go try to figure out how to learn it. But have I asked like, what is like the level? The other thing is that they're all entrepreneurial spirits and so they understand how business works because that I think is something that we ought to be teaching our children. Sure. How business works. In fact, my son is a lot brighter than I am with with regards to that. I think that's one of the powerful things that you

Starting point is 01:24:39 said is to is the entrepreneurial free thinking spirit. Because that is not taught in school. No, that's cool. But that's not powerful though, right? Let's say that I, so this is gonna sound me. Well, but your metric is the academic metric. So here, let's say I'm standing in a room with 100 parents, okay? And every single parent here, what is it?

Starting point is 01:24:56 2400 is the MACSAT score today? I don't even know. Is it 24? I can't remember. I thought it was 60. But they raised it with 18. I thought it was 16. They raised it with 18. Let's say the SATs. You'll say a senior room. SATs.

Starting point is 01:25:07 Inflation. Every parent here is telling me that like, oh, my kid got a 1700 on the SAT, right? Very quickly, I can kind of ascertain like the academic capabilities and the math skills, the English skills are really skills of these kids. Let's say that you sit in a room with a hundred parents and I know both of you know this, because you guys have probably hired people and talked to people before. Somebody comes up to you and they say, oh, I'm an entrepreneur. I don't know what the fuck that means.

Starting point is 01:25:31 I'm gonna need to see some work. I'm gonna need to see a portfolio. I need to see some, like, just because you're an entrepreneur, that might just mean that you run a channel and you, like, do drop shipping, and you make $400 a month doing that deal with your mom, right? But if you tell me, like, oh, I graduated from Duke or I graduated from, you know, even like a decent skates

Starting point is 01:25:46 to state school with an engineer degree, okay, cool. I immediately have some idea that at the very least, you can show up and get a degree in engineering. That says something, right? So, but it's superficial because just because you- It's absolutely not superficial. Because you're an entrepreneur. Yeah, but if you, also, sure,

Starting point is 01:26:02 but if you score 1600 on the SAT, it doesn't mean that you can have an original thought. To me, having an original thought is more brilliant than scoring 1600 on the SAT. That's true, but I feel like the goal, this happens, everybody does this. There are problems, this goes back to one of the first things that I'm gonna show,

Starting point is 01:26:17 in terms of me defending institutions. I wish that we were better at criticizing things without throwing the whole thing out. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that school, K-12, or colleges are a perfect institution. I think there's a lot of wasted time. I'm very progressive, but I think that the ideological leanings of the school are fucking insane, right?

Starting point is 01:26:34 That 13 to one is barely even a real number because you know that one conservative is not like a gun-toting macro. That's like a liberal conservative, right? That's a guy that would have voted for Clinton, right? The one conservative, right? So there are definitely problems with the school. I just don't like the idea like, okay, there are some problems.

Starting point is 01:26:49 I'm gonna throw all of it out. We're gonna ignore all the pros. And we're gonna get so ideologically invested in our particular solution that we can't even name a single son. Because I still don't know a con from the homeschooling thing. And I can think of three of the top of my head. My sister was homeschooled for her entire life.

Starting point is 01:27:02 I know tons of cons off the top. What are the cons? One is that you have a parent that stuck in the household. Two is that you have to go out of your way to find extracurricular groups to sign up for. The parent in the household is not a con to me. Well, that's because you guys had a lot of money. For parents where both parents need to work,

Starting point is 01:27:18 that's unfortunately for a lot of people, that's not an option, right? So one is not a con to homeschooling. It's a barrier, but it's not a con. The con is that it's a job that you don't get paid for. You're a slave to your kid, which is kind of, okay, it's part of like being a parent to some extent, but a lot of parents.

Starting point is 01:27:34 I reject that characterization. Okay, well for the people that can afford to have a single person, a parent staying in the household until the child is 18. Go down the list. Yeah, that's one. The second one is you have to go out of your way to find... staying in the household until the child is 18. Go down the list. For a lot, yeah. That's one. The second one is you have to go out of your way

Starting point is 01:27:46 to find like- Extra-curricular activities. Yeah, it could be a charity. It could be charity stuff. It could be whatever. Thankfully, my parents were religious. I say thanks, Lam and Atheist now. But like, so they had an easy community

Starting point is 01:27:56 to kind of like do, enroll their kids in my sister in class, whatever. And then three is support can be difficult. At least back when they did it 15, 20 years ago, hold on. Sure, it's probably changed a lot, but it can be like if you've got questions about like a certain curriculum or which books are the best or whatever,

Starting point is 01:28:11 it can be hard to find that support online, whereas you've got issues with schools, there's a whole infrastructure built out. And then four is not as big a deal, but things related to special education requirements can be really, really complicated in the home. If you're not ready to be like a full-time caretaker or meet like the individual needs of a child,

Starting point is 01:28:29 maybe a child has a speech impediment and you know how to train them, you have to take them to a speech pathologist instead of relying on school, right? Maybe they're asking for career guidance and you don't know the answer. Your child's like, oh, I wanna be a mechanical engineer when I grow up and it's like, okay,

Starting point is 01:28:41 well, I got my degree in writing. I have no idea like what guidance can be. So there's like four on the top of my head that are like challenges. I went to high school and I had my drama class because I really like drama and I really wanted to be an actress and everybody at the high school literally like everybody at the high school said you can't be an actress because nobody ever succeeds. And frankly, the gal who taught acting pretty girl had spent a bunch of time in New York clearly had not succeeded because she was teaching high school drama in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania So of course your paradigm was nobody succeeds because she didn't succeed

Starting point is 01:29:11 So just because your parent doesn't know how to get you somewhere doesn't mean that the school does and in fact There are plenty of people in schools that dissuade children like I was dissuaded from pursuing acting Which is why I ended up at Duke University and then had debt because I was studying something that I eventually didn't do. But the other thing that I want to, I just have to say, we live in a culture right now that believes in the school model, because why? We all went to school, so we were all brainwashed into the school model. So your very definition of education is, well what you have to perform while on a test.

Starting point is 01:29:46 That is not the true definition of education. And the idea that it's a terrible burden to have to be enslaved to your child, I will say this. We also live in a culture that our schools have taught us that sacrifice is the ultimate evil that you should never sacrifice anything because you can have it all. And that's a lie from the pit of hell. And the fact is that sacrifice is the highest good. And the only reason that our culture has survived and that this nation has been created

Starting point is 01:30:15 is because they understood that the free exchange, the free sacrifice of self for something greater than is the greatest good that we can have. And that's the basis of our economy, it's the basis of capitalism, it's the basis of growth, and frankly, it's the basis of family. So when you have a family, you learn that you sacrifice for your family because in the sacrifice, your true value comes out and that's great. That's great. But when you say sacrifice, that implies a con. That's all I was saying.

Starting point is 01:30:45 If you can't afford to stay away from a second. That's because the definition that we have been given from our schools, it's a sacrifice is evil. Sacrifices. Sacrifices is evil. It's not a con. Sacrifices by definition, if there's no con involved,

Starting point is 01:30:58 then it's not a sacrifice. No, that's wrong. That would be like me giving my wife a $500 certificate to some fucking restaurant. I'd be like, look, I sacrifice for you, get the fuck off my back. That's not a sacrifice, that doesn't mean anything. I didn't give up anything up to do that, right?

Starting point is 01:31:09 Sacrifice by definition implies that you're giving something up. If you've got plenty of money, you can see how. But it's not a con. We're playing exotic language games to say that there are no cons involved in sacrifice. A sacrifice by definition is a pro on one side and a con on the other. Then you can't call it a con.

Starting point is 01:31:24 It's in the office. Do you have a sacrifice to go the other. Then you can't call it a con. It's in the office. Do you have a sacrifice to go to the gym? You can't call it a con. You have the sacrifice to go to the gym. Is there a con to go into the gym? There is a sacrifice to everything. So you can't call it a con. Is there a con to go into the gym?

Starting point is 01:31:37 Is it painful? Do you spend time doing it? Okay. There are cons to it, but there are pros too. You're healthier. So you can't just call it a con. It's just ingenuous to say sacrifice is a con. You, but there are pros too. You're healthier, you look better. So you can't just call it a con. It's ingenuous to say sacrifice is a con.

Starting point is 01:31:47 You would say there are pros and cons. That's what we were saying before. That was Adam's initial question, I think two hours ago, was what are the pros and what are the cons? Just because something might be on the net good, there's still going to be cons involved. Sure. Okay. Nett good.

Starting point is 01:32:00 Sure. Also, I think it's important to note, you mentioned having this a really bad drama teacher, all of us have had bad teachers, I imagine. All of us have probably also had hopefully at least one. We've had good teachers and bad teachers. Yes, exceptionally amazing. Right, but we tend to glorify the school and say, but school is net good.

Starting point is 01:32:16 And my view is school is net bad. Okay, but the people who don't go to school. Probably, but what is I think that different people will say, well, there was a net positive and there was a net negative. I think that's, this is the whole fundamental question I was asking, what are the pros and cons? Because I don't think that they're all pros of doing homeschooling.

Starting point is 01:32:34 I also don't think there's all cons of going to actual school. Right, but, and of course, my viewpoint is net good. For schools, net bad for school. What's your how old is your youngest kid? 17, okay, I think you guys should just swap lives for a day and Your kid should go to the homeschooling with Sam and your kid you go to I wish I'm learning home learning I wish I could convince you try it because it is the most amazing I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are.

Starting point is 01:33:06 I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are.

Starting point is 01:33:14 I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are.

Starting point is 01:33:22 I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are. I'm socialization stuff. I feel like there is a lot of socialization that you're undercounting for your children. When he asked you like, what kind of friends do my kids have? And your first answer is, well, he's a two million follower kind of TikTok. In my opinion, that's actually one of the fundamental

Starting point is 01:33:35 driving forces in our society today that is destroying children's minds. He doesn't believe in TikTok. But just my point is that he's an extreme. He might not believe in it, but it is too million followers. I think you're just mad that he has more followers on Tick Tock than you. My whole life is my house.

Starting point is 01:33:47 He's getting banned. Exactly, bro. Get up. Press. Because he went to school and you're hung out the wrong kids. Let me clarify that my point with that is he's an extreme extrovert. He has a ton of friends everywhere.

Starting point is 01:33:59 Like he goes, he goes. He listen, he, here's the, let's transition to a different topic. Here's what I will say on, on just listen to you guys going back and forth. You know, what you think the world of a homeschooling is, you don't have full context on it, right? We're talking about it.

Starting point is 01:34:14 Okay. What she thinks of everything else as being very evil may not be as realistic to you and I, because we're like, yeah, I mean, like the biggest thing for me is the reason why I like conversations like this is because I learned through debate, that's how I learned. I learned through people debate.

Starting point is 01:34:33 Sometimes if it's at the house, they're only hearing from one personality, one teacher, there isn't enough debate. Maybe that's one thing that is a high value in our family. I love debate, I love exchange, I love disagreements because it's getting your brain to work. It's like a muscle work in here. If you don't have that, there's no debate. So it's not getting us to learn.

Starting point is 01:34:54 That's where we read good books, right? I mean, yeah, we read plenty of books in our family and I still like to have the debates. Now, on the flip side of it, let me tell you what does concern me. This whole like six, six change stuff that they're talking about right now is transgender, right? Hey, you know, what's wrong with it? You should let them do it. You should let them go through it. You know, what's wrong with a kid wanting to do that? And hey, if the parent

Starting point is 01:35:16 agrees and approves to, they should let them do it. Some of that stuff for me is the brains not yet been fully shaped to make tough decisions like that in your life. That should come later on. To me, to make some of those things introduced to kids like, hey, now we got seven billion different pronouns to go to school and my kids got to come and say, one of my classmates today said they have a pronoun, they wanna be called this, what is that?

Starting point is 01:35:38 That I don't wanna have those conversations with you. I just don't. And the public school has made the mistake of allowing that to be normal and they're taking a hit for it. By the way, states have also made a mistake. California is losing people to other states. So is New York, so is other people. And a lot of people in Florida, no matter what they say about the Santa's love of more hate him, his philosophies took him from barely winning the governorship by 34,000 votes to winning by 1.5 million votes, he's speaking to parents

Starting point is 01:36:05 who have similar fears to the ones that you have. So power to them, you are not alone here, you know, on you talking about the issues that you're talking about. Anyways, let's transition to your favorite present of all time. Oh, wait, before you move on, can I just say the pronoun debate is really funny because all the pronouns they're talking about are third-person, which means they're way too concerned with how I talk about them to somebody else because none of the pronouns are you or me. Do you see what I'm saying? You have to be a little bit of a good area. It's all third-person, so

Starting point is 01:36:40 it's only, so if you're telling me your pronouns, you're way too concern with what I'm saying about you behind your back. By the way, you know where I learned about third person and pronouns and adjectives? School. School was a great place to learn about that kind of thing. You know who could entail you? You. Your mom. If your mom loved you. But she clearly did it. But my mom could not teach a class. When you've got an eye-cant kid, you know, what are you gonna do with it? Yeah? I don't know. Yes, yes. So there's one thing that I wanna say on that.

Starting point is 01:37:07 Well, obviously every parent is different. Everybody tries to do what they can. This is just, and it's hard to get data on this. It's just feelings that I have. When parents talk about how upset they are, that teachers are introducing certain material into the classroom. Some to actually, let me back up one sec.

Starting point is 01:37:22 Let me use another example so I can get you on my side first. Did you see all the clips that came out with teachers that were really upset about kids like bowling other kids because of shit they'd seen from Andrew Tate? No, I haven't seen that. Oh shit, you didn't see that? I think it was like a month or two ago.

Starting point is 01:37:36 I feel like one of these stories went really big and I feel like it was one of the driving things that got Tate de-platformed. I think it was a mom or a teacher was saying like all these kids are harassing other kids in class now because of shit they've seen from got Tate de-platformed. I think it was a mom or a teacher was saying like all these kids are harassing other kids in class now because of shit they've seen from Andrew Tate. And the first thing I thought when I saw that, this story right here, teacher claims

Starting point is 01:37:54 11 year old boys are telling girls they are fat. Yeah, I feel like this story was a huge driver. Yeah, August 16th. Yeah, literally right when he got cancer. Was one of the big drivers that got him pushed off. Was people were starting to see it show up in schools. The first thing that I thought when I saw that was, wow, that's pretty horrible.

Starting point is 01:38:11 But then the second thought immediately, I was like, hold on, we always fucking bully people in school. The only difference is, is that now we have a microscope on everything. We can see everything that our kids are doing, right? And it's like, oh my god, calling people fat, dude, the shit we used to say in schools,

Starting point is 01:38:24 it's gonna be banned in fucking Twitter on every, while dude, the shit we used to say in school is gonna be banned and fucking Twitter on every, while we're banned on. The meanest people in the world are eight grade kids. Was that real or was that real? Eight grade kids are the meanest people in the world. I'm sure it was real. Was that real or was that just a hit piece on YouTube?

Starting point is 01:38:36 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm sure it was real because that's what I can say. So when I see this, I think like, this has probably always been going on. When parents get really upset about things that teachers are saying to kids, my personal feeling is, I feel like the goal should be, your kid gets exposed to a lot of stuff.

Starting point is 01:38:53 And hopefully, he's comfortable enough to bring it up to you in a house setting, a home setting, to say, hey, dad, mom, I saw this is school today, I got questions about this. And then you kind of like answer the questions and you hopefully push them in the direction that you feel is personally correct. So if you personally don't feel like trans people are real or if you think it's all a bunch of bullshit,

Starting point is 01:39:11 then you know you talk to you can just say, hey, some people have this belief, it's like a religion or whatever, like you kind of respect these other beliefs, we personally don't believe it, I don't believe it, I don't think you should, but like you guide them in that direction. The thing that I don't like when parents do this thing

Starting point is 01:39:23 where they crack down really hard on the teachers is I feel like parents delude themselves into thinking that their children are going to school and they're not being exposed to a whole bunch of fucking insane shit. And I feel like even if the teachers aren't saying it, at least when I went to school, there's always like a couple kids bringing crazy shit to class, they're seeing wild shit today on social media, whether it's TikTok or fucking kids talking to them in row blocks or on their Switch and Fortnite or whatever. And the worry that I have for some parents is they think that as long as teachers aren't saying crazy things,

Starting point is 01:39:50 my kid is going to school and he's not learning a single bad thing ever and then he comes home. I'm only, I'm 34 today, but I remember even my parents, like sometimes when I talk to adults, I don't say you guys are like this, but I talk to adults and I'm like, damn, like you're only like 40, do you really forget what it was like to be in school

Starting point is 01:40:05 that the first time you saw porn with some weird kid that printed out boobs and showed it to you between class or some like, you learn the wildest things between classes. And yeah, I would hope that parents that are cracking down so much on teachers are deluding themselves into thinking that my kids not being exposed to any of this

Starting point is 01:40:20 and then they never talked to them at all about it. I don't think that's the issue. I remember being exposed to porn. It was probably one of the greatest days of my life. This is amazing. This is fantastic. It was LA Express in high school. There's that troll. Junior High School.

Starting point is 01:40:38 My mom first time she got this stuff. I used to hide in a good place until she figured it out, but I still had a good place she could never figure out. But anyway, that's a different story. My friends, I grew up around drugs, I grew up around gangs, I grew up on all of that. My parents got divorced twice. So it's not like I wasn't around. I was the kid that parents had stay away from that kid. And I joined the army. I'm a 1.8 GPA kid. I'm the 880 SAT score. That's this guy. So it's not like it's the other way around. I want to SATs. I couldn't wait to leave the place. I'm a 1.8 GPA kid. I'm the 880 SAT score. That's this guy. So it's not like it's the other way around.

Starting point is 01:41:06 I want to SATs. I couldn't wait to leave the place. I'm like, you want me to sit here for how many hours? You're out of your freaking mind. You want me to sit here for this long. No, I'm out. I'm good at math. I could give a shit about writing.

Starting point is 01:41:15 So I scored very high on math and then I left. No, I understand like, you know, can you keep your kids away from drugs? I still live in Plano. Plano back in the 90s or 2000s had a reputation of heroin. A lot of kids died from heroin at Plano high school. It had a very bad reputation. So the first thing we moved to Plano, Texas,

Starting point is 01:41:34 hey, did you know Plano was a rich community? Oh, that's awesome. Did you know kids died from heroin and Plano? You don't hear that in every community. It's like, well, there is influence for other kids to be exposed to her one and the kids are dying. The part that to me is very weird when people make stupid things real, meaning, you know, 2.2 is 4.

Starting point is 01:41:56 Well, it could be 5. It could be this. No, no, you don't confuse my kid. It's only 4. There's only one answer to it, right, with what we want to do. You know, you may not be a boy. You may have a theme. You may want to be a woman. And don't let your mom and dad convince you otherwise. Yeah, don't put that in my 13 year old kid's head. You're confusing the shit out of them. Don't do that. I don't need you to do that

Starting point is 01:42:17 to my kid. That's the areas that I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with, you know, hey, dad, they said rich people are greedy. Okay, let's hash it out. Let's talk about it. Hey, dad, they said, you know, black people are this white people are dad. This person is this one of my classmates pregnant. We just had case. I'm talking to one of my inner Christian school. 13 year old good girl. How did kid got an abortion and the girls are talking about out of Christian school. My high school is they I went to an all-boys school, but if you were one of the all-girls who you got pregnant, they kicked you out of the school. Well, but the, they, I was from all boys school, but if you were one of the all girls, so you got pregnant, they kicked you out of school. Well, but the point is like,

Starting point is 01:42:47 they kept it amongst the girls. Okay. And it hasn't gone to the top to be able to, because this just happened. I don't know what's gonna end up happening, but there being exposed to it. So these kids are kids that their parents have money, so guess what, hey, you wanna try ecstasy,

Starting point is 01:43:00 you wanna try cool. You, I'm not worried about that stuff. There's gonna be exposed to it. None of that stuff. There's going to be exposed to it. None of that stuff. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm comfortable with manipulation. I'm I'm comfortable with making the questioning of where a kid naturally should go to to say well, you know, maybe you are this. Maybe you are that that's my concern concern, too early. Later on, it is what it is, you know, you do that too early, I have a challenge with that. Once I went into the army, destiny at 18 years old,

Starting point is 01:43:30 you know what I saw? By that time, I'd seen everything. It wasn't like anything was new to me, okay? But I feel like some of the school on right now would what they're teaching makes me very, very uncomfortable. That's the reason why I took my kids out. And we thought about homeschooling for maybe half a second. And we said, no, we're not gonna be doing homeschooling.

Starting point is 01:43:50 Do you think there is a way to teach any LGBT stuff without it being something that would be a contradictory to what parents would want? Or do you think it's always? At what age? I probably middle school six, seven, great. No, no, way too early. No. Do you think that so let me be more clear.

Starting point is 01:44:07 Uh-huh. There is a way to teach people about like gay people or bisexual people at that age. You do think it's totally just impossible? Because, you know why though? Because, you know, like, this goes back to a conversation of how we got sought years ago, two years ago, maybe a year and a half ago, where one of my friends, you know, he straight his entire life. And then one of the things about gay converters, they're very good recruiters. Okay, so this one, we used to go to this club

Starting point is 01:44:31 and that in Nashville. It was a gay club, great club, okay. Best club in town. It's called like a Studio 54 of Nashville Tennessee, sick, underground, awesome music. You know, energy was amazing. It's where you wanted to go if you're straight because it was an easier game to have.

Starting point is 01:44:48 Now, everybody would ask me, hey, but David, I know where you go on the weekends. Can you tell me about this secret spot? I said, no, man, I can't take you. Let me trust you a little bit and I take you. This one of my friends, I took them. We took him to the club and this one guy who's aggressively gay and he comes and asks the tough questions.

Starting point is 01:45:06 He comes to one of my guys who's been straight his entire life 19 years. And he says, so you ever been with a man? No, I'm straight. It says, how do you know you're straight? If you've never been with a man, he's got stock. So you know what to say. I'm like, dude, we're gonna answer back because you're straight. He says, so we get into the cards of 45 drive back from Nashville, Tennessee to Clarksville.

Starting point is 01:45:27 You know what he talked about the entire time? Maybe he's right. How do I know? Maybe I am. You may, I know. I said, bro, what do you think? Okay, I got a question. Do you know what ends up happening with this guy?

Starting point is 01:45:37 What? He ends up, no, no. Yes. No. He ends up just to say, to find out. And then he comes out. He says, I guess I'm not now. Are you out of your I guess I'm not needed to do that to figure He was straight his entire life, but he thought he had not what he ended up

Starting point is 01:45:56 Hooking up, but is he gay now straight, but he had that one moment to kind of go through it for himself. Well, it happened. It can't to tell you his story with Versace. No. So he goes, oh yeah, yeah, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,

Starting point is 01:46:12 he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he parties and stuff and then eventually they end up at dinner together and they're sitting. This is your husband, but yes, my husband back in his mom and Johnny Versace in my back in his modeling days and my husband hot hot, okay. And Johnny puts his hand under the table on Kevin's thigh and Kevin says, Johnny, all my life. No, and he says, Kevin, in this life, you have to, and I don't swear. So F, the cow and the sheep and the dog and the cat, you have to try everything similar to your cake and burger. It's a bit of a different. I don't argue, but that was his language, right? So Kevin did.

Starting point is 01:47:06 Kevin, hope that was for some reason. And he goes, what? Kevin goes, Johnny, all my life, I've been on this road. And you're on this road. And Johnny goes, I built a bridge. No, it was not the best night of his life. Well, what's the way? What happened exactly?

Starting point is 01:47:23 Well, it sounded like they didn't build the bridge. Nothing, it was not the best night of Johnny's life is what I meant to say. Gionny. Gionny. Well, you know, they say that you know, you build a thousand bridges in your life, you know, you fuck one goat, you're no longer a bridge builder,

Starting point is 01:47:35 you're a goat fucker. That's right. So it sounds like, do you think there's any worry that, so I understand yours to have your friend, but like, let's say that was like one of the worst case scenarios. Like, he hooked up with a guy. Okay, what about on the other side,

Starting point is 01:47:47 would you get these guys that are like 35 years old, they've got like two kids, their marriage is almost completely sexless, they're kind of miserable, and then they realize like fuck, I'm gay. And then you've got these people that have these whole lives that they're about to upend because they weren't even exposed to the idea,

Starting point is 01:48:03 and now all of a sudden they finally realized when they're like 35, 36, they've already got like a family and they're like, fuck me and then their whole lives all apart. Yeah, I don't know about that. I think sometimes when a person at a call with a guy yesterday, this guy who runs a business does 7 million euro, okay. And they just had a kid 10 months ago. And he says, my wife wants to have a divorce with me. So your wife wants to have a divorce with me.

Starting point is 01:48:25 So your wife wants to have a divorce with you. He said, yeah, so how long has been together? We've been together for 10 years. It's the 10 years, yeah. Married five years, okay. So I said, how often are you guys having sex right now? He's like, we're not. I said, why not?

Starting point is 01:48:37 We're just not. I said, how many times would you guys have in sex when you first started dating? Oh, all the frickin' time. I said, so have you gone to your testosterone? Check down. What do you mean you're not having sex? I said, one of the best things in a relationship,

Starting point is 01:48:49 you wanna have your relationship work, you gotta have sex twice a week, every week and have a dinner, go have dinner together so you can kinda have that conversation together. It's not healthy too, not have sex together. If you have issues, you need to lose 40 pounds, lose your 40 pounds, move your body, get a train, increase your testosterone, but it's not good for you not to be having sex.

Starting point is 01:49:07 Okay. When you're in that moment, you don't think that highly of yourself as a man. You're looking at anything that will accept you because you're no longer getting the attention, you could be confused to make a decision, that's not healthy for you. Hence maybe you're talking about the 35-year-old guy that thinks he's now gay after having to get. You know, I think you can just, just your sexualized that fluid that you could be straight. I do. I think I think a lot of I think a lot of people when they're down, they can be taken advantage of. Listen, what is the biggest mortgage?

Starting point is 01:49:34 What is what is the biggest real estate product that they reverse mortgage? Who do they rip off the most and target people? Old people. Old people. Why? Because they're what? They're they're easily taken advantage of. They're in a weak position. So to me, when somebody is in a moment like that and their marriage and their relationship with their down, they're very easy target, very easy target. When they're a child in school and the authority is telling them something. But by the way, let me say this to you. If he chooses to do that, listen, you're 35 years old. That's right. Do what you got to do. I can't do nothing about you at that point at 35 years old. My biggest concern is my job is to latin. If I raise you and protect you and challenge you and help you become a leader by 18 after 18, you do what you want to do.

Starting point is 01:50:21 It's going to hurt me, but you need to make the decision now. And kids are going to make some decisions that's going to hurt their parents. My mother never wanted me to join the US Army. We left Iran so I wouldn't join the Iranian Army. She went to Iran to go sell her house, sell her father's house. I call her from South Carolina. I never told her I joined the Army. I called her and I said, hey,

Starting point is 01:50:39 just want to call into, I got 30 seconds, because I'm in boot camp. So I'll tell you, I love you, I'm in South Carolina, I'm in the, I joined the Army. What did you do? I joined the Army. I got to seconds, because I'm in boot camp. So I'm gonna tell you, I love you, I'm in South Carolina, I'm in the, I joined the army. What did you do? I joined the army, I got to go, because the guy behind me is waiting, we got 75 people waiting to make a call.

Starting point is 01:50:51 I got 30 seconds. Wait, wait, wait, mom, I got to go, click. Next, okay? Kids are gonna make some decisions that I'm not gonna be happy about. The ones that I want to protect is any form of manipulation where kids is, maybe he's right, maybe he's this,

Starting point is 01:51:05 maybe he's that, that's my problem. You do that 35, do what you gotta do. Gotcha. Do you think, I'm just curious, do you think all gay people are manipulated or being gay, or do you think anybody can just be gay? Or? I lean more towards upbringing, I lean more towards,

Starting point is 01:51:22 not a father figure, I lean more towards confusion, I lean more towards, not a father figure, I lean more towards confusion, I lean more towards insecurities, I lean more towards somebody gave you attention that nobody else does, you're an ugly kid, you're not good looking, you're gonna blossom later on in life. Some people that were 12, 13 years old, we're not good looking kids,

Starting point is 01:51:40 they're gonna be good looking at 30 years old. Some were very attractive, and they're gonna end up being fat. Life is a very weird dynamic on how it works. But if you're ugly and you're not the best looking kid and you be embolyed and somebody from your own side who was gay, and let's just say they themselves are coming until you're trying to tell you how amazing you are,

Starting point is 01:51:57 maybe it's a form of getting love. That's confusion to me, but that doesn't mean you're gay. It just means somebody finally has given you attention that you are looking for and you're seeking. I think this is a very technical topic and my opinion on this would probably offend a lot of people. Sure. I say, you know, so because you draw the line at manipulation of children, which I think

Starting point is 01:52:20 is healthy, I think we have to protect our children from all kinds of manipulation. So then you have to figure out, and by the way, I don't criticize teachers by and large. I mean, there are some bad teachers out there, but by and large I think teachers are wonderful people who are trying to get something done inside a failed institution, really. There's so much manipulation that happens in school,

Starting point is 01:52:47 how do you prevent your children who are in school from being manipulated in whatever way? Well, I mean, first of all, you have to make it comfortable to have the tough conversations with our judge and them because they'll never bring it up to you again. If you have an environment where your kids cannot come and talk to you openly about issues

Starting point is 01:53:04 and you snap at them, that'll be the last time they'll ever bring that issue up to you again. If you have an environment where your kids cannot come and talk to you openly about issues and you snap at them, that'll be the last time they'll ever bring that issue up to you again. So you gotta make sure that happens in one time too. If you break it, trust like that. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. So I think that's on the parent. I think if the parent doesn't create,

Starting point is 01:53:18 like we have a rule out the house, you tell me the truth, you're not getting in trouble, you're not getting papa, you're not getting nothing. You just gotta tell the truth. So hey, did you do that? Yeah, I punched them in the face. Okay, cool. All right, sounds good. Let's talk about it.

Starting point is 01:53:28 Why'd you do that? Okay. Hey, did you really take that idea? Did you open up such and such as gift and without their permission? Yes. This was an issue that happened two nights ago. Great. So you got to create an environment

Starting point is 01:53:38 where they can feel you have a creative trust with them that they can talk to you about issues. Right. Because if you don't have that, they're gonna go through it. They're just not gonna talk to you. They're gonna talk to somebody else. And I think it's a mistake a lot of parents

Starting point is 01:53:51 and leaders make with their kids. But yeah, that's what I would say. Yeah, well said. So you're mitigating at home. You're mitigating for whatever's happening. Yeah, we watched a movie where the topic of LGBTQ came up and my son was a little bit confused.

Starting point is 01:54:09 He's nine years old, we came home and we talked about it. And we sat down and I told him the history of what I told him. So here's what happened with this, here's what happened with that. These are the roles that father figures play. If a father's not really involved, the family's not involved or God has not involved or you don't have a certain set of values and principles, we could be confused to do stupid things. We all can be guilty of that, but you're living in an environment the family is not involved or God is not involved or you don't have a certain set of values and principles.

Starting point is 01:54:25 We could be confused to do stupid things. We all can be guilty of that, but you're living in an environment that this is what you know, and here's what to read this and look at the history of this, and here's what happened with AIDS, and here's how AIDS got started, and this is how many people had killed. And this, and just you kind of go through it history of it, and then let them make a decision for themselves. And I think that a lot of parents sort of abdicate that because then it gets into this murky territory and people operate under a lot of fear.

Starting point is 01:54:50 So a lot of parents back away from those conversations, they don't know how to have this conversation. That's why that's how they convinced us that they should be teaching sex in school as opposed to leaving the parents to have the sex conversations with the kids. And then the parents say, okay, now I don't have to have the sex conversations with the kids and then the parents say, okay, now I don't have to have the sex conversations with the kids and I really commend you for bringing that up. I talked to my kids about sex. I talked to my boys about sex at five and six years old.

Starting point is 01:55:15 I talked to them about very young. Oh, absolutely. Jennifer can tell you the birds in the bees. I'll start working. Because they start like playing with themselves and shouldn't you have to have a conversation pretty well. I made boomer parents. They would, dude, my parents didn't tell me

Starting point is 01:55:26 a fucking thing about anything. My two. My two. Right. Yeah, not a single fucking thing. No, I don't think that's healthy. I, by the way, I don't think, I think maybe they got away with it back then.

Starting point is 01:55:35 I don't think you can get away with it today at all because you get exposed so much. You get exposed. I know my mother had huge conversations with my older sisters and then I sort of got the brunt of them, but sort of second hand in a sense. Yeah, you know what she did say that made me think about, I wanna kinda get your thoughts on this,

Starting point is 01:55:53 with the whole thing with kids, where you're saying, well, what are the three cons? And she wasn't given really the cons. What I would say, homeschooling today is different than homeschooling 30 years ago. Here's why. 30 years ago, if you're homeschooled, you're sheltered from the real world, okay?

Starting point is 01:56:12 30 years ago. But if you're homeschooled today, but your kid still has access to this, you can't be sheltered. If this kid has got 2.7 million followers on TikTok, it's mathematically impossible to be sheltered because 2.7 million followers on TikTok, it's mathematically impossible to be sheltered because 2.7 million followers on TikTok, that means you're also going through the videos

Starting point is 01:56:30 and you're seeing shit that you disagree with because we know what TikTok is doing. So a form of sheltering to me without social media today, a full-on shelter to me if you raise your kids would be if you said no phones, no TV, no movies, no Netflix, no nothing. That's a full-on shelter. Sure.

Starting point is 01:56:48 But if kids do have... It's a human Obama shelter. Yeah, but if kids do have access to this, I don't think it's the homeschooling of 30 years ago. What are your thoughts? So, this is a phenomenon. You can see this most easily like on maybe dating apps that I think people have gotten into this mindset that having the most choice over everything

Starting point is 01:57:07 is the ultimate freedom. That let's say I wanna pick like an ideal dating partner, okay? No Republicans, nobody from a small town, nobody that doesn't like this TV show, people will act out so many things and they don't realize that if they just met that person in real life and spent some time chatting with them, hanging out with them, you'd be really surprised at the wide gamut of people that you could associate

Starting point is 01:57:27 with and engage with and even have the feeling friendships or relationships with. One of the things that I like about school, his school is one of the last places where you are forced to be together with a whole group of strangers and you have to adapt and socialize in that situation. And outside of school, it's very rare that those types of environments will exist anymore. Maybe work, depending on your work environment. Yeah, but even work isn't all the same age. Sure, yeah.

Starting point is 01:57:53 So that's one of the reasons why I like school, that you got a bunch of kids, saying a bunch of crazy shit, some of them, you know, you wouldn't expect your kid to get along with some of them, you'd hope you'd get along with, but it's one of those few areas where you're forced to socialize with a wide variety of different people. And I think that that's a pro to child development. And I think it's a con for younger kids because you don't know what your kid is being

Starting point is 01:58:14 exposed to at early ages. So at a certain point, I think it's healthy for maybe a conversation to happen about human sexuality, but not at age five with a stranger. Yeah, potentially, but I think also. So there's age limits. I would drive different. Two, the development of children, right?

Starting point is 01:58:36 So it used to be that we used to really protect children. Actually, before we started protecting children, we didn't protect children. They got married at the age of seven and that was like totally copacetic, and society said that was okay. Then we said, hey, you know, kids really aren't of the age of consent until they're 18,

Starting point is 01:58:53 and we should protect children, and now we're entering into a whole era where, no, no, it's all, we're gonna put it back all on the table and children are sexual beings from birth. I mean, they did studies on infants with sexuality and it's crazy what they've gotten away with and those are the people who developed the sex ed curriculum in our schools and so now it's like totally cool

Starting point is 01:59:16 to talk to kindergarteners about sexuality and gender non-conforming things and LGBTQ. I should want to hear what you have to say. Yeah, before we go. So first of all, I fully believe that the age limits to sexuality are way, way, way lower than a lot of parents think. I don't know. Again, this goes to the age thing.

Starting point is 01:59:36 I'll talk to some parents in like 30s or 40s that will say just, dude, I remember these ones, they're the most outlandishly stupid shit. Like my 17 year old, you old, he's got another friend, and sometimes he goes over to their house, and I think they study or whatever, and sometimes it comes back at like 10 or 11 at night, and it's like, what do you know what they're doing the whole thing?

Starting point is 01:59:51 And it's like, they're fucking, right? They're obviously fucking, but like people can't even comprehend the film's 17. Yeah, at like 15, 16, 13 years old, no, not my child, no way. And it's like, like how old are you?

Starting point is 02:00:02 You really forgot everything? Like no shot. You think they wait until they're 18 to be sexually active? Or even what you said. I'm happy you said that because it sounds weird to talk about it as parents. But like your kids get sexual.

Starting point is 02:00:12 They start playing with themselves. They're fucking six months old when their boys will start reaching down every time you change their diaper and they try to grab their dick and shit. And it's important to have those conversations early. I think parents put it off way too long. I've heard, obviously not my first hand experience, but I've heard horror stories

Starting point is 02:00:26 that of how many women have their first periods without their parents ever telling them that it's coming. That's like child abuse. That's fucking insane to me. That your daughter, your little girl, can just start bleeding in a classroom, thinking she's fucking dying. And then mom was like, oh, ha ha ha,

Starting point is 02:00:40 you've had your first one. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I feel like parents are sometimes kind of bad at gauging the age limits. Cause for some reason, they put the blinders on when it comes to their own kid. And like, my angel would never do that. So it's like, what did you do?

Starting point is 02:00:51 And then just real quick, I just want to hit the TikTok thing. I think that the TikTok sheltering is a little bit different. And I think we have to be really careful of this. Social media is very good at showing you what you want to see. And it feeds you that information of what you want to see and you get to scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Classroom environments are a bit different because you're gonna be confronted with people

Starting point is 02:01:07 that you might not necessarily like. So I think that there, even though it doesn't seem like it, I think that a child that spends all day on TikTok connected to 50 million people can actually end up way more shelter than a child in a classroom with 15 other people. Just because on TikTok, you're seeing a custom tailored machine learning fed algorithm that is giving you

Starting point is 02:01:24 exactly what you're gonna see the entire time. Whereas in school there might be like a bunch of weird kids that you do or don't get along with. Yeah, but his point is simply that they're less sheltered because of social media today. Then they were 15 years ago. Not that they're less sheltered. Just you're seeing a whole tonight used today. Yeah, it depends on what you do. They're more exposed today. Yeah, I just have two questions for the panel just so I can get some clear directive.

Starting point is 02:01:47 Yeah, not the one with the kids. What age do you guys think it is appropriate? We got three minutes to have that sex conversation with your kids, just very clear. You said five, six years old. You said, I was five, six years old. Yeah, at what age, you know, what sex conversation? Birds in the bees, yeah.

Starting point is 02:02:03 Birds in the bees, five, six years ago. All right. And then here's my question for the bees, five, six years ago. Okay. And then here's my question for you, just to kind of give you a binary choice. Would you rather? And by the way, depending on the child, it entirely depends on the child. Some children don't want to have that conversation.

Starting point is 02:02:15 Okay, we won't have that conversation. If there's curiosity, then you feed the curiosity and you close that. I think I should force them out of the conversation because you're not gonna talk to them about it. If you're not gonna talk to them about it, they're fucking friends of school are gonna talk to them about it. They're gonna just beat it up.

Starting point is 02:02:26 I'm lying. Yeah. Binary choice for you. Would you think it's more important to home teach your kids K through six and then send them to school, you know, middle school and high school or is it more important for them to go to like a public school

Starting point is 02:02:42 K through six and then homeschool them for middle and high school. Do you understand the question I'm saying? What's more important, if you can only pick one. I think K through six. To do what? To keep them home. Keep them home until they're 12 years old and then send them out to the real world.

Starting point is 02:02:58 Versus then release them to the wild and then bring them back to them. Exactly. That makes sense. Okay. Yeah, just one to clear. Because hopefully by the age of 12, they understand that they don't need school. Yeah, they don't want them hanging. Exactly. That makes sense. Okay. Yeah. Just want to clarify. Because hopefully by the age of 12, they they understand that they don't need school. Yeah. They don't want them hanging out with

Starting point is 02:03:09 guys. Because you want your children to learn how to teach themselves. Once they learn how to teach themselves, they won't take crap from people. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Did that help you on? Yeah. Are you convinced now about homeschooling? I think it might seem like I'm giving you a hard time. I'm not. I'm genuinely curious as to what are the pros and cons? I think these are conversations that everyone should have with their wife and their spouse and their husband and I think this is something to do. By the way, did we get results on that pull-up? Yes, it was 51% wood not homes home educate and then 49% wood home educate. Okay. They can contact me at samsorbo.com and I have tools for them.

Starting point is 02:03:49 Not to go deep down this rabbit hole, but if only 10% of people max are sending their kids to school, I think it's just, I don't know if it's a sample size 50, 50 here. Well, for the 49% that is interested in homeschooling, Sam's got a book called a playbook for home learning. Would you mind taking 30 seconds and telling us about the book? Yeah, I'm training parents that they don't need the schools. And that's this. This is a this is a training manual for parents to show them what we mean by home learning. Your children are auto-diad acts. They teach themselves and all you need to do really is give them the tools, give them, equip them so that they

Starting point is 02:04:21 can teach themselves and then show them what they really want to learn and figure out what their interests are. Fantastic. I feel like Destiny's coming out with a book of the importance of going to school. So that'll be, that'll be coming out soon. I think, I think, I think any of you can be good.

Starting point is 02:04:37 If you do home learning right, it could probably be way better than normal school, but if you go to a really good school, I mean, I'm sure it can be an incredibly life in rich and experienced as well, it just depends on how you engage with it. There you go. Okay. So let's put the link below to the home learning book as well as Destiny's YouTube

Starting point is 02:04:50 channel that it can go learn more about what Destiny's got going on as well. And Sam, so guys, thank you so much for coming out. It's a last show of the year. I don't know if we want to have a holding of the hands. Cool. Yeah. Let's just listen. What do you got planned for the New Year's Day?

Starting point is 02:05:03 We're going to be party in a hard core at the house 12 10 when the kids go to sleep It's so funny when you have kids and they live with you the schedule changes dramatically Then I'm sure you're gonna be up to some more. Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna be doing 12 10 then yeah, yeah, that's that we've got different plans anyways gang happy new year Do you have a great weekend? We'll talk to you guys. Happy New Year. Next year. Take care. Bye-bye-bye-bye. Yn yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Starting point is 02:06:10 Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw

PBD Podcast - Sam Sorbo & Destiny | PBD Podcast | Ep. 220

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