PBD Podcast - Sammy "The Bull" Gravano | PBD Podcast | EP 89

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

In episode 89 of the PBD Podcast, Patrick Bet-David sits down with Adam Sosnick, Gerard Michaels, and special guest Sammy "The Bull" Gravano to talk about Mafia State's of America, the difference between a gangster and a racketeer, and much more! Watch the full podcast: https://youtu.be/xwzlCbUWZtg --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

Yes, gentlemen, we are alive. All right, David says we're alive. We're live. By the way, David's good to have you back Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I want you to tell us where you were at. Go ahead, buddy I went to plaja del Carmen So he starts off Roll the regular And then he goes straight up with the accent. By the way, I got to take a semi We have semi double-gravano here with us today. Sammy. Thank you for being on the podcast my pleasure We're gonna talk about mafia states of America and we're to talk about a lot of other things that's going on

in different stories. But my shower here in the office, I'm begging the building to fix my shower to be warm water. Okay. I go in there. This is the fourth time the plumber. I'm right now. It's a public announcement. If the plumber's listening. Please. Yes. But if I'm telling you, give me some hot water. I go in there every time I go in the carolans like no they fixed it. I go and I scream like a little girl. I'm like loud off the top of my lungs but I have to start with a cold shower. Sometimes I go hot then I go cold. I thought it was very important for the world to know about this. The fact that my water is still cold. So Sam, tell Caroline, tell Mickey, please,

let's fix this show. So how cold is it? Look, it's so cold that it wakes me up. It's great. I mean, I come right after the gym, but it wakes me up. So I'm a wake right now, it's me. So that's that loud girl of scream we hear?

That would, that's me. Yeah, I can't scream like that, but it's a manly scream like that. Yeah, I know, yeah. Anyways, I think it's a shame because we all know what happens to a man in a cold shower. They feel more confident. They're confident it goes up. I don't know about that. There's the same thing that happens in the pool. The waiter was called. Yeah.

Too many things into the podcast. I just got out the water. That's a cassanza reference. Oh my gosh. So Sammy, since we announced mafia states of America trailer, the couple trailers that's come out, tell us what are your thoughts, the three days we spent together, what we did the interview and what are you hearing from the market, what are people telling you? I know your podcast is crushing it.

You got some big projects coming soon as well, which I'm sure the followers are going to know about. But tell us what's happened ever since we sat down with you and Michael with the mafia states of America. Well a lot of things, all my following, everybody's asking me when it comes out, when it's going to come out, and all this other stuff. So I tell them soon. But everything is going well, and we're getting a lot of calls from everybody, different companies,

different people from all over the place. And I think the three days we spent there with the interview, some of them were a little rough, I think. I got a little excited a couple of times, but I think it went well. I think it went very well. I thought there was a great team put together. My team came down. They loved it.

They enjoyed it. I mean, I think I have a different image of Michael. Really? Yeah, I do. I have a different image of him. Meaning his family and him. And I think he's a lot more honest than I thought originally. And I got to like, very interesting.

Did you think that was going to be the case? Because when you and I talked the first time for a couple of hours, you were like, there is no way in the world I want to do this. And then a couple of years later, you ended up doing it. Your expectation going in versus what ended up happening, do those two align? Or did you think it was going to be slightly different?

I didn't know what it was going to be like. I tell you the truth. Michael's a racquetate. There's no question about it. He was a money maker for the family. He did that Russian thing. He said he started. He actually started it. But the Russians did it. They used us. It was a very intelligent move that they did. And they came to us with this bullshit, protect us and do this and do that. They came to us for one reason. We had connections all over the city of New York. We could put them in hundreds of gas stations

with their gas and their scale. And they gave us money. But they gave us that bullshit story with we're scared, they care of us. They didn't need us to take care of us. They needed us to get gas stations. So there was a lot of stories and he was one of the first people they went to. I think his father's reputation and name made them go to him. And he was very successful with it. But like we talked about in the thing,

I think I'm against it, and a little bit of a racqueteer. I think people agree with that. And he's more racqueteer, which is not a shame. There's no shame to that. But I think he believes in a lot of things, it's a religion. I question that a couple of times. But I think some people change their life and believe it.

Some people don't. But I think he's told the truth. So I changed my mind a little bit. This whole thing that... You know, we have a clip that we'll show here in a minute with Rudy Giuliani. And there's a part where I ask Rudy about do people change, you know, all this other stuff. And he says certain things about Michael, he says certain

things about Goddy. And then he says certain things about you about people changing. But and we'll get into that here in a minute. But the question I have for you is there seems to be, and I know I don't know if we got into this or not, there seems to be a certain level of pride to say, I'm a gangster versus a raccoteer. In your world, like we're not in your world, we don't know your world. But in your world, how is a gangster seen? How is a raccoteer seen? Industry. It's almost like if I'm in a military, you know, I wonder, is it like infantry versus support? What does that look like, right, Catering against Gangster? That's a great analogy.

I mean, infantry versus support. You know, when you're in the infantry, you're going out and you're putting yourself on the front lines, and there's somebody in the way in the back supporting you. They all deserve respect. They're all part of it. But I mean, the main guy on the front lines, you've got to give him a lot of respect.

He's the guy who's taking the bullets, giving them. I mean, he's the guy who's making them happen. So you've got to respect him a little bit more than the guy in the back. But they were all part of it. So I never looked at it, and why I was in the military as well. I never looked at somebody who was in the back, that he was less than me, but he was in the back. I was in the trenches.

And I really wasn't in the trenches. I was in the infantry, but I was on communication. So in the back, we set up a tent where they communicate with the front line and back and forth. I'm the shmuck who ran back they communicate with the front line and back and forth. I'm the Schmuck who ran back and forth to the front line to talk with the guy who's got the radio or what there was problem.

So I'm back and forth. So I know what it was to sit in the back. And I know it was to be sitting on the front lines. I read a sit in the back a little bit. I'm sure. But yeah, we have bullets fucking flying around. And where was this exactly? I'm training. Okay. Training. Yeah, I never went to Vietnam. This is for okay, got you. Yeah, I was in Dornavet and I'm more, but I never went there. You needed a full year. I only had eight

months left so they wouldn't ship you out. So and then they asked me when I go to the VA. Did you have boots on the ground? Yeah, I did. In Benzler's Brooklyn, I had boots on the ground. Not in Vietnam. You know, he went to Vietnam, except he was in Vietnam to party. Not in the show. Yeah, great time. Well, after the war was over. Yeah, yeah. This was early 2000. Different stories. I brought back Nancy Tran with it. So racketeering and gangster. Like when guys that listen to your podcast or guys that listen to interviews and they're in the world, maybe they were an associate, maybe they were a made man.

I'm not even talking about the couple's underballs or anybody that's, you know, had a rank. Those who were an associate or those who were made man, how do they look at visually? Like I'm really curious, how do they look at a gangster versus a raccoteer? If they walked up to a raccoteer and it's an earner as big as Sammy, as big as Michael, the kind of money that he was making,

do they look at him and do they say, wow, this guy's making money for a lot of us. So respect for that. And then do they look at a gangster and say they say, wow, this guy's making money for a lot of us. So respect for that. And then do they look at a gangster and say, I better not cross this guy. What is that level of mindset in your world, not our world, in your world? Well, to put it in your world,

how do you look when you've got in a room and there's a pit bowl and there's a portal? What do you think and how do you feel? You're saying a racket tears a portal? Well, compared to a pit bowl, he's a portal. Yes. So that's an interesting analogy to say. I didn't think he's going to be a... I don't really have a comment other than that's interesting. Well, I mean, you know, I'll have a... So I'm a gangster, you're a racketeer. That's what I just learned from him. Because I make the money and you do what other stuff. Yeah, well, a pit bowl bites, right? So you have, well, I'm going to be a little more cautious

than this. I got you. And the pit bull, you know, the poodle makes money out shows. Shows and you got to respect that. He's one metals and you could sell his little puppies and stuff like that for big money. And so you respect both of them. You love both of them.

They're dogs. Yeah. Sammy, can I ask you? It's one's a little more dangerous than the other one. Can the gangsters, do they need to coexist? Meaning, do you need to have racketeers and gangsters? Can you just have gangsters? Can you just have a, you gotta have a yin-yin kind of a thing?

How's it work? It's, let's respect the entire thing. If you burnt that saint in your hand and you became a maid guy, we respect him no matter what. We respect the entire thing. If you burnt that saint in your hand and you became a made guy, we respect you no matter what. We respect the life. So we respect whatever you are. Somebody proposed you to become a friend of ours and we respect that. If we don't respect that, we could die. We can't raise our hands to one another. I can't raise my hands to a guy who's a rack of tear and say, I'm a tough guy and he's not. I can't. The bullshit just don't work. Everybody has equal respect. David, is that my gone? Is that my gone? No. Is that my gone guy? It was on. Now

you turned it off. Okay, good. Okay, that's good. I'm hearing stuff. Okay. Excellent. Did you answer your question for you that rack of here? Just gangster. I want to make sure that he was the reason why we're asking these questions because Adams thinking about being a gangster. And we're trying to hold them back from doing it because he wants to. I don't think he is convinced. He doesn't want to do a La Cosa, no, he talks about La Cosure no stress. What he wants to do. That's appropriate. Yeah, he could go to, you know, a Jewish family and hit it up. Thank you. But you said very quite candidly last night that you got along very well with Jews and the Italians and the Jews coexisted and you guys did things together. Would you expound upon that?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I always did. In Benzerna's Brooklyn, when I was a kid, it was predominantly an Italian Jewish neighborhood. We had a house, my mother and father, and us. In the middle, on both sides, there was three houses attached. On both sides, there was Jewish families. And we had a tremendous respect.

I told stories a long time ago, my friends would break my balls. You're a Jewish. They would call you Jewish? Yeah, you're a Jew. I said, I'm not. I'm a Thai. What are you talking about? They said in the house, when we put up the Christmas lights in the window, there was the Hanukkah lights, the menorah. The Shamash was right here. The leader. Right. So I went in and asked my father, why are we putting candles in the window that are Jewish people think

we're Jewish. He said, because our neighbors, the holiday is very similar and respected in the neighbors, they're Jewish. I put the menorah in the window. And I learned things like that. When I shove it, it'll snow from my own house. I did it for them. And they always took care of me. They had fish.

They would call me in. They said, come in my house. They brought my new eye out of fish fish. They would call me in. Sammy come in my house. I knew I had a fish tank. They would buy me fish. I always had great relationships with Jewish people. Sammy, what's the story about the Jewish community? I talked to Myron Sugarman. I don't know if you know the name Myron Sugarman or not. No. I had a month and he was a Jewish gangster. He calls himself the last Jewish gangster.

And he was telling stories about the Jewish mob back in the days, how tough they were, how strong they were. And partly, he talked about how they trained Italians because they were one of the first that, what do you know, you're a history guy, what do you know with the history of the Jewish mob and the affinity with the Italian mob, the day, was there a training going on? Was there some kind of a... Do you know how you're talking about myolanski? Yeah. They were very powerful in the mob.

Murdered, cooperated was mostly Jews. Say that one more time. Murdered, incorporated. The shooters were mostly Jewish. Interesting. Why was that? I don't know. Ask Lucky Luciano when you see him.

Okay. Lucky Luciano was completely close with my Alinsky and a lot of Jewish gangs. As he grew up with them, he liked them, they were around them, and they were tough. I mean, Bugsie Sigo, these people were tough people. My name is Incorporated, there was a bunch of them. Well, it comes down to the actual history of it comes from the original immigration. The Jews were the first real wave of immigrants in Lower Manhattan. And then we talked about this with the Irish. Corn B, Fond, St. Patrick's Day is actually the Jews teaching the Irish how to cure their

meat. There was no refrigeration. They couldn't afford it. So it's kind of the same thing. And in the early American, you love this word, Zaid guys. The Eastern Europeans and the Jews were the first wave of immigrants and then the Italians and the Irish, we were the second wave. So we kind of learned from them coming over here. And even when I was in the military, there was a few

Jewish guys I knew. And they were from New York and we used to travel with the car back on foot. New York and we used to travel with the car back and forth. And then one of the guys his mother would make me sandwiches. She heard my name was Sammy. She must have thought I was a joke. She made me say well. She made me with this Jewish salt on top of the fat, the fat on top of the sandwich was delicious. And she liked me up until she saw the cross on my neck. I think she didn't like me no more. But I had another guy, Felman, Teddy Felman,

when we got out, he owned an employment center. And he hired me and my friends, got us jobs and places. So I always got along with Jews. So you got good relationships with Jews. I saw you do an interview with a bunch of black guys. I think it was like an eye-heart media. I don't recall. And they were asking you how you or Italians got along with the blacks in your neighborhood. Do you recall that interview? Unless you're talking about gangster chronicles. I don't know what it was called, but it was you in a room. They were asking you about relations with

how you got along with African Americans. I always got along good with them, you know, especially in prison. I got along very well. I'm not racist. I'm not anything like that. I don't walk around like in prison thinking my shit don't stink. So I had to go relationships with people. I went to gyms, I used to spawn, I worked out with black eyes and things. So I never had a problem with black eyes.

You told the story about when you were in the army that they were in line giving the food. Yeah, they were calling you boy and they were like, you said the most racist people were in South Carolina at this point in your life. Well, I didn't pick South Carolina. I was in Carolina. Four Jackson? Yeah, four Jackson South Carolina. I knew what racist was in New York. I mean, I knew what it is growing up.

I said, when I went down there and I went to four Jackson South Carolina, I saw it in a whole different light. I never, in New York, I never went around with a black eye, couldn't go into the same bathroom. But down there they had that. So it was real late 60s when was this? In the 60s, 64. I got it in the 60s.

Yeah. So it was really heavy down there. Not probably not legally, but the people, some of the people, and I had trouble with a couple of guys walking on the line. We were serving. He came from the Bronx, this black guy, and I heard him call him boy, and this and that. I know he wouldn't like that. I looked at him, but it didn't seem to bother. Then he did that with me. And then he had told me, whip it on me boy, you know, and I was putting the stuff in his tray

and stuff, I had the long metal spoon. It started dripping over and I stopped. And he threw it on the table and he says, when I tell you whip it on me, I'll tell you what the fuck, I'm stopped. I was stunned. So I just whacked him right in front of me. I just whacked him right in front of me. Just boom.

And then the black guy jumped over the counter. Of course, the other hits friend hit me with a train, and the black guy jumped over. And we were fighting a couple of them. And then the MPs came, we were like arrested. And the guy, the head MP, was a black guy. And he looked at me. And he said, you like helping black people?

Boy, he thought I jumped in to help him. It was the other way around. But I wasn't going to tell him that. So I said, well, that's the way it is in New York. And he winked at me. So I knew I wasn't in trouble. And we never were able to serve anymore. They put us in the back, we were peeling potatoes all the time.

No more spoons for you. No more spoons. It's tough to hurt somebody with a potato. Yeah. It's got to throw it out of them versus head with it. And you're not on the line, so you're in the back with a big drum and peeling potatoes, oh, fuck, and they were all.

So I never had a problem. My granddaughter is birestial. So I never had a problem. My granddaughter is biracial. So I never had a problem. You know, I'm doing a video now. I was in prison and I was with a biker. This guy, Mark, he had long, long hair coming down, a full beard. He looked like, just, he looked like he had all hair.

His whole face, everything. He could hardly see his face. We all race this guy. And I'm going to sell with him. The unit manager was black, black woman. And she says, I'm going to put you in the cell with him. He's, I'm going to move you as soon as I can, but put up with it. So she knew he was a problem. There's a white guy. A white guy. A lot of hair. A lot of hair. It looked like a fucking monkey.

And so we have conversations and stuff. And you know, he sees a program with a black man and a white woman. He wants to change his channel. He wants to do this. He wants to do that. So I said, leave it alone. Then the thing every time I got up, I stepped stepped on potato chips pretzels. He was real dirty That was my first argument. I said bro. We got a living here clean it. I don't want this shit out of floor

so Don't one day When I wanted to watch a program and he didn't want it. He says I know why You will allow this and he didn't want it. He says, I know why you allowed us because he had daughter. She likes black people right? That's a chech of fucking mouth. But I told you to stop with the racist shit. He carried on and he says,

yeah, he says, yeah, little nigga, baby. I hit him so fucking hot. We fought all night long because it it was after we got a lot. And you're in the same cell as this guy. Same cell. We fucking bashed the shit out of each other. All night. All night.

Holy shit. Got up the next day. It was a Spanish guy. Steve wrote it next cell. Yeah. Sammy, what the fuck were you doing, bro? So what do you think I was doing? But I was fucking fighting all night.

My lip is hanging. Everything is fine. But he was all fucked up. He went to the union manager and he told her. She called me in and she said, what happened? I said, not. She said, nothing. You all caught up.

The guy told me that you had a fight with him. So I said, let's not fight. She says he said racial shit to you, right? It could be. Don't fight no more. I can't move you to a cell, but I'm going to go back in it. Kick his fucking brains in. She told me, no shit. I said to God she says do what you want but don't finish it just don't destroy them because he wanted to be Yeah, I went back in it. Sooner than I got back in I said listen, I apologize his fucking brains it the next day Went to the warden pass by he grabbed the ward and he said I want to be moved this guy's every fucking night The war looked at me

You fight with him Bro the guy's piece of shit is a liar He's liar your fucking face looks like nothing. Nuckels are bleeding. Nuckels are still bleeding. I should get out of this. I said I do that to myself bro. I do that because I'm stupid. I'm in jail. I do it to myself. The warden started laughing and he says, all right, he says,

Sammy, just slow it down a little bit. So everybody hated this guy. This guy. Everybody hated him. What ended up happening to the guy? Did he even make it? You know, I was friendly with AB guys, so maybe guys. And this guy, John, and he was in the same unit as me, we were in other units together. And he knew about the fight.

So this guy, Mark, was going to leave. They called them, Marshalls are here. You're going to leave. I was so happy he was leaving. So John called them and he says, Mark, you leave it? Yeah. And he put his hand out. Grab this hand. He grabbed his hand and hit him a fucking left. So you can't do nothing because the marshals are waiting. If you don't leave, then you're gonna stay there. So he wants to get the fuck out of there anyway. Everybody had to do this guy.

Jimmie, the general, who's a made guy, he hit him one day with me. You know, that's a funny story because he was a bike and he did tattoos. So he's showing me some of the work he did because I had to turn it that to and it shows me and his wife has a dress up so you can see the leg and the work but she has no panties. It's up quite a bit. So I said, oh my

God. I said, this is good work, bro. I'm looking right at his wife. So I said, Jimmy, come here, bro. Look at this. Mark, those beautiful work. Look, he's got to be calc. Look at that. You know, be calc at a time. It's just take a peek at this. It's be calc over here.

So Jimmy comes over. Looks at how he's laughing. Mark said, what's be calc? That's beautiful work. An Italian. That's what it means. Telefaction. So we taught you to, I beat him up every night. How long did that last semi? It lasted a mile a week, then he just stopped. He just stopped. He was literally crying and stopped

it to me. Because as soon as the door clicked and the God walked away, he knew it was like round three, round four. Let's go again. I just wanted to go. Were you guys ever knocked out on the ground like after hitting each other so much? Was it ever to the point? He had the top bunk.

So, and I had the bottom bunk. So as soon as the God was still there, locking, he would try and jump on the chair with the desk and boom shoot up onto the Top bunk and I couldn't get him You know because I'm short so as I step on the chair to try again and he would kick You try to keep me to find it was he an actual monkey or He was like a monkey, but he would kick me to I couldn't get on there But I would I would take the kicks back off a little bit and then you were trying to drag them off

Obviously, oh I dragged them off the top a bunch of times, but he would hang on to the thing This is like this whole body was in yeah, like you're doing a hell in a cell matter like you're the undertaker Yeah, but Sam and the bottom line is you guys shared a cell together like How do you even sleep now that point? Now you can't leave, yeah, exactly. How do you even sleep? At the end of the night, if we fight for about an hour, we could both go to sleep, bully me. You could both go to sleep.

And if you have to, I mean, you're so exhausted and so beat up, you know, it's just the whole day. Now they locked you at night. Now you're battling for an hour. I want to have banging all over the fucking place. You know, you stop it. You just can't keep going. Otherwise, it's not, it's not that I want to kill them. I just want to beat them up.

Let me ask you at the end of the fight. Do you say good night? And then like, no, there's no good night. To the, you see them hurt. I mean, that's a great question. I mean, like, he would tell them me shit that I would tell him. Listen, tomorrow I go, because I want that I'm out of the cell. I mean, like, he would tell him the shit that I would tell him, listen, tomorrow I go, cause I want that I'm out of the cell.

I don't want to fight him every night. I said, you go tell the unit manager to move him. I mean, you talk about, go complain, I don't go fuck. You talk about not being able to sleep. I mean, your whole life, man, you've lived on the razor's edge for so long. Like, you do something, you do some work,

and then you gotta think, you know, man, this is what I just did, could be 25 years if anybody ever catches me. The 25 years of my life, any any minute anybody could be a cop anybody could be undercover any anything that you're speaking to can be wired Like what you talk about not being able to go to sleep like what was it like in the beginning? What was it like you know as you were moving up the ranks did it ever become easier? Did it ever be like well? They haven't caught me yet. They're not going to catch me. How did you handle the stress of being in that life? I got caught all my life, bro. Every fucking thing I have with that just about, especially as a kid, I got caught a lot of times. Look at my rap sheet.

I'm arrested 20 fucking times in my life. I'm arrested one time on a double homicide that I didn't commit, I got out on bail, $100,000 bail, back then. I came out, I got busted, robbing cars and robbing things to pay fucking lawyers and things, and I got busted a third time, had three cases going at the same exact fucking time in my life when I had those cases. So I'm busted a lot of times. You know, I just, this life of mine, I seem to be involved in everything. I was chosen to go on hits that were literally impossible. The Johnny Keys hit the Cast Alano. That was in Tremoffia was. My life just never stopped. I don't know what happened or why. And I just kept going. When did you enjoy your life? Like what was the highest phase of your life?

I always enjoyed my life. My wife, my kids, when I went away, I bought a farm. When we would go away from the farm, I would get off the highway in Jersey. It was creamers in New Jersey. Well, everything was out of my head. I smelled those trees. I was in a different thing. When I went home, I shut it down.

It had two different lives. And I wasn't just fighting and shit all the time. It happened. I think maybe my size, it happened, fights more. Thinking they could do something or get away with things. I fought in the ring. Maybe my size, it happened, the fights more. Thinking they could do something or get away with things. I fought in the ring. I don't give a fuck if I win or lose the fight.

When I'm in the fight, I want to hurt you. Period. And I don't give a fuck if you win. But you're gonna know that I fought. You're gonna fight, yeah. You're gonna say, bro, I beat him up, but I don't want to find him again. That's all I do, you know, but I don't back up from anybody in prison, but I don't bully people

and I'm good with people. You know, I'm Patrick, I know him a long time. I never beat him up as big as he is. It wouldn't have happened. Peaceful though. What do you smile about? It might have happened to you. First of all, off camera, Gerard was upset because Adam was acting a little too hard around Gerard. Yeah. He felt safe with Sam. He had his muscle here with him. Yeah. But for the next couple hours, I'm looking ready, Gerard. By tomorrow, lose my number. I'm like I'm not going to lose my number. But Sammy, I guess, let's restate,

change the word happy, peaceful. Like, if you were to go think about the most peaceful face of your life, when was it? Like, I'm talking pure peace. And I'm not talking about when I come home, smelling the trees, the kids, the family, all that stuff. I'm talking pure peaceful. What was that era?

Was it when you were a kid? Was it when you were in your team? You know, as a young adult, when was that? No, of course, when I was a kid, and I had a good mother, a good father, and I had good friends, the neighborhood, I played ball, I never did anything. But I was dyslexic, and I had trouble in school. So I think that was my downfall, if you want to call it that. I had trouble in school.

I told somebody once, you see this paper, I told them here, read this paper, I'll tell you, read this paper. Then I take a blank piece of paper and I just scribble it. And I say, read that. And you'll tell me, I can't read it, it's all scribbling. Well, that's what this looks like to me. How old were you when you said that, when you showed that? Well, I did that a little older, but because people didn't

understand it back then. But school just wasn't for me. You know, and kids are cruel in school. When you're calling your dummy, the laughing and this and that and everything. I had a little bit of a temper, especially I like girls that laugh in there, belittle in me and front of girls.

So when I have to school, I break your fucking ass, bro. So you wouldn't do it no more. And I think that's what I learned that, you know, I could swim with punch, stops the left and stops the joke and then whatever. If your joke and has a friend and you're doing something, that's one thing, but if you're trying to belittle me, I don't take that lightly. And I think that's, I got to the 4th grade, I got to the 7th grade, I think that's I got left back in the fourth grade. I got left back in the seventh grade And I was in a gang, so that was it was over

That started my life into a way of crime Now we were in a gang. We were like fuck the mafia. I'm not gonna ever be in the mafia. It's us against the world It's awesome. This is in what middle school type of medical? No, this is 16, 17, 18, 19. I got drafted into the Army during the Vietnam War. I came out when I was 21, right back into the ramp is in a gang. At 23, the neighborhood was so saturated with the mafia. You couldn't do anything. So, and while I was gone, most of my friends hooked up

with somebody. So at 23, I was gone, most of my friends hooked up with somebody. So at 23, I hooked up with the Colombo family and I did my first head and the rest was history. I have a start button. I don't have a stop button. Whether it was business, whether it was the mafia, no matter what it was. And it's until today, there

were some young girls who worked for me. I burnt them out. Too much work, too much drive. No, no, no other reason. But I see them to always be like that. I'm just aggressive that way. I'm 76 and I'm doing 15 different projects. Would you guys, Mafia States of America, I'm working on a scripted show, I'm working on a possible documentary, a doc a series, we're talking with the people with, I have a month's social media, I'm like a social butterfly all over the fucking place. I know it's that. That's gotta be pretty quiet.

That's gotta be pretty wild for you. You lived your whole life trying to keep everything under wraps and now the entire world is snitching on themselves on a phone. All these 16-year-olds are taking like snapchats on themselves at a party. We used to try to sneakolds are taking like snapchats on themselves at a party. We used to try to sneak in at nights. Our parents didn't know we were partying.

You lived your whole life in the shadows and now everything's on front street. I know what I say a lot of times, I say that what I'm doing, I got 400,000 now, subscribe is, like 50 something million hits on my podcast and my videos, I said, if John got he was alive, wouldn't be looking at this. He would be so sick. He would say, that's what I wanted to be.

He wanted the publicity. He wanted. He would have loved this in my opinion. Because this is what he was about. Everything was a show, the way he dressed, acted. It wasn't goes an off-strike. Me, I was under duck. I don't want to see not that, you know, the agents would say, what a pleasure it was to follow Sammy when he was the underbar. He'd come out of his office, T-shirt, pair of sneakers, he'd go to school,

y'all with some kids, playing handball. It's so different watching him then watching some other gangs. There's you know playing that gangster roll and then do that Okay was for me now the roles reversed I'm a fucking social butterfly YouTube YouTube They call me pod father now the pop Is that just a sign of the time I think they've changed so significantly I guess it I guess it that it's a sign of the times that I mean I never even saw this stuff I went away I was I mean almost 18 years straight I never even saw these phones I still have trouble with this phone

But I mean it's a pleasure really get in the car in the kitchen directions. Do you think technology, if technology was around, when you guys were coming up, do you think many guys would have found a different way, different racket to make money and not doing illegal things? Do you think it would be very different or do you think guys would still be doing what they're doing? Because this is helping you make money. This is helping you generate income.

This is, I mean, 400,000 subs. You got to very quickly, 50 million pot. You can do sponsorships. You can do a lot of different things that's going on with you. You got people that are watching. So your mind is not consumed with, you know, hey, I need money.

What do I need to do to go make money? So is this almost eliminating the thought of I got to figure out where make money and survive do you think that would have prevented a lot of Guys to get into the life with the technology we have today both from the camera standpoint as well as way to make money I don't know. I really don't know But you know my mindset was being a gangster and I was a gangster at the all-time. I don't think I would have turned into this. Now, I might have had somebody else use other people and took a piece of some business

that they would do in this field that might have interest me, Hollywood, might have interest me. I'm in the background. I'm a camera guy. I'm in the back. I don't want to be in the front. Now it's different. Now I am in the front. Everything's about my voice. I can't even duck. I can't even go away for a week. But I don't know. There's two sides of this sort. You can make money with it

and people should use it and use it properly and make money. But the other side is that I think the whole country now is in a weird place. There's people who are doing some of these platforms who are talking about being in the mafia. They're foolish, they're not even, they're not having nothing. And everybody seems, a lot of them seem to be lying.

So you got to disciple what's one is good, which one is bad, which one is so there's a confusion about all of this. So it has two edges to this sort. I don't know. And there's a lot of things that are going on with kids today that I mean, I don't understand. The whole country is just out of whack. If you were to tell me about this country,

at this point, four years ago, three years ago, I would tell you crazy, that would never happen in the United States. In what way? Which part? So every part, the coronavirus, the whole thing. I mean, the masks, no masks. I don't even know what to believe anymore. You used to be, you listen to the news,

it was gospel. Oh my God. This is what they're saying on the news. Cronkite. Cronkite. All of you know, when you went back, the CNN, the guy originally formed CNN, to turn up people like that. Now they disappeared. I don't know what's running it anymore. You can't believe anything anymore because one day the Tonya won't think we're miss. Don't wear miss. Do wear two miss. Take a shot. Take another shot. Take a booster. Take another booster. Come on bro. What's going on here? Two completely different realities about him with channel. You watch, yeah. Yeah. And it's you're hearing all kinds of

bullshit. You don't know what what the belief this guy Fauci I mean, I don't know if he needs a metal the sexiest man alive guys. Yeah, yeah, sexy is it man alive or he bullshit in the whole world He's part of this whole virus like you don't know if he's a hero or bullshit I he's a fucking he's no fucking hero this guy. He's no hero He's paid from where I understand the highest paid guy in the federal government. He's supposed to be a doctor. He's supposed to care about us. He's funding this thing in China with money.

Like we're paying for that. We're paying for to get a bat who is disgusting and has all kinds of viruses. And we're getting those viruses and trying to transform them into worst viruses. The worst virus and making it that man could catch it for what reason are we doing? The excuse is, so if man catches this, we could cure it. That's bullshit, because from the bat, you can't even get it. First of all, bats don't even live near us,

and you can't get it. So you're creating something to see what you can cure. Bro, millions of people have died from this. In the word hero, bro, this is the furthest thing from a hero. I can't explain what I would like to do to him. Well, without all due respect, I mean, listen, you did your crimes and you did time, right? But how do you feel about somebody like Fauci or what just happened where, you know, we

dropped the predator drone? How do you feel about somebody like Fauci or what just happened where, you know, we dropped the predator drone and it took intense, you know, seven kids. It took intense scrutiny from Rand Paul for them to admit. Yeah, actually, that was an attireist that we killed. It was 10 civilians and it was seven. It was an aid worker and seven children. This is our taxpayer dollars. We just came in a war crime that was fighting hours of our lives. Every new station said it was ISIS K. We're we're we're just giving it a war crime that was every new hours of our lives.

Every new station said it was ISIS K. We took him out. Everybody was said what a strong move in an X and you know the real reports comes out and it's seven kids. Yeah, so I got to ask you as you know as somebody that did time and you did your crimes and you did time right? But now you look at somebody like Fauci.

It looks like nothing's gonna happen to him at all. These guys nothing there's no accountability whatsoever Even small things the the mayor of of San Francisco puts the entire city on lockdown and she puts a mask mandate out And then she's out there dancing and drinking and party with no mask whatsoever I mean how do you handle something like that where you were held accountable? But but these people that hold the rest of us accountable face no accountability. Let me let me answer that a little bit. I've never seen the mafia be a predator against society.

We stole, we made money. We killed one another because of rules in our organization. We didn't go out killing innocent men, women, children. You mean like people that are outside of mafia? Outside of the mafia. And we didn't do certain things. We took a piece of things that in industries, but we took a piece. These people don't give a fuck about nobody. They take the whole pie one, two, they don't care about men, women, or

children, and innocent people. There's a complete difference. There's nothing like the mafia. Talk about the government. The people who, yes, the government and politicians. You think they care? Even some of the media people who are out there today, do they care? You go to college, you go to universities, you're all your life, you're going to be out there, you're going to hold the powerful, hold their feet to the fire. Are they doing that? No. So, what happened?

What is happening? And how do you stop it? That's the whole thing. So, this technology went Patrick, and we went into a whole frenzy about what's going on, but this technology, I think it's good. And it has a bad side. I don't know if it's all that good.

They're teaching race theory in schools. I mean, I don't get that either. Critical race that is happening. Which is just watered down Marxism. Well, it's racism because if you're white and your grandfather owns something or did something, then you're no good. I mean, I don't get it. I don't even know my great grandfather. I don't know what he did or what he didn't do. I don't give two fucks what he did. Has nothing to do with me. I know my mother did, I know my father did.

They were far from being racist. Look what they did with Jews. They loved the poor and neighbors. Or Rich grew up middle class broken, just like everybody else. You weren't down in the South running the plantation. What do you hold a held accountable for? I don't think even those people,

I don't knock those people, that was the time and that's what they did. And racism didn't start with bringing blacks into it. White people didn't bring blacks into this country and use them as slaves like it's the histories. Where did they come from? Started in Africa. The strong African tribes grabbed strong men and women and sold them in Africa. The strong African tribes grabbed strong men and women and sold them in Africa.

Ship is who went there said, wow, we can make a lot of money. It looks like a strong guy. We could sell him, he could be a worker somewhere. That's how it started. It started with black people, doing it against black people. And then it went all around the world with chippers and whatever. This isn't a thing that some kids born today, whether they're Latin, whether they're white, whatever they are, they're not guilty of anything. And you can still feel bad for who would happen to without saying, you know, any of its life. Of course you could.

And when you're wiping out history, that's what I want to wipe out history, because this is what it really was. So of course you can feel bad. I would hate that. I would hate to see that. I have a ton of black friends. I just was on gangster chronicles. I was treated like a king with them.

The same type of environment, all black guys. Joking, laughing, we had a great time of course I feel bad what they did then but that's why you want history you want to change it Vietnam we went there they were telling me when I was a kid training they're gonna come here they're gonna rape your mom your sisters they're gonna kill us they're gonna do that they're saying that the beat Kong was gonna come here and do that. That was the propaganda that you were being served. That's what I was training on. But that's bullshit. I don't know a one Vietnamese guy or woman who's bad.

The only Vietnamese woman I know, they do your nails, they do your toenails, your fingernails, their polite, their good people. When we left that country, that country never did anything. It got better. So it was all bullshit. So what we're doing now, we're fucking what country's all over the place for what? I ran Korea, this one, that one, all these countries, I've got this there.

I mean, where the fuck are we? Where are we going with this technology and everything we're doing this technology We just killed innocent people the guy was had water drums because he's a humanitarian for people who didn't have water And saving kids ten people legitimate people we killed So now and we'll just put that on the back burner. That don't mean nothing. How do you think those people are going to feel, is they going to love us?

They're families. They got lost families. They're going to hate us. And we're doing these things. Now, I go with the Me Too Movement. You have a Patigirl on the ass. Ooh, you're in trouble. Me Too will go crazy on you.

Where the fuck is the need to movement about these girls and women that are about to be slaughtered. And I've kind of said, what is the need to move and stop at the border? What about all those people? What are the people in the border here? I don't know what's going on in this country. I'll tell you the truth. Look at this border. We opened up the border.

It's a million and a half plus people got in already. I got to wear a mask. Take shots. Do this, do that. They don't have to wear a mask. They don't have to take shots mask that don't have to take shots They don't have to be tested they could put on buses. They're shipped all over the country I feel sorry for them when I see them coming through the water all lady little kids and this and that But I feel sorry for the whole country boss

When do we care about us? What's Sammy you let's use your knowledge of history and maybe to our advantage for us that were in around when you were a kid. I'll be careful, I ain't that far. No. You said you were, yeah, but a history you wanted, I'm not gonna have to give it to you. I'm not a junior cizer here.

I don't wanna know about Marcus Aurelius here, I wanna. All right, got it, got it. When you were a kid in the 60s, is that fair to say? All right have all right got i got when you were kid uh... in in in in the sixties that fair to say all right i mean things couldn't have been any worse jf k assassination ml k assassination bobby canady uh... sirhont sirhont just got out of jail after fifty freaking years you were kid grown up race relations you know

race rights race riots uh... civil rights movement everything was going on is it fair to say that we're we're doing better now than than then I mean because crazy as things are now let me give you a little example of that yes we had a thing with the Italian people the Italian American civil rights league we had big rallies a 100,000 people. Not one window was broken, not one person in the streets was beaten up.

Not one cop was assaulted, 100,000, there was Irish Jewish Italian people, there was every nationality. But Joe Colombo did get shot. But that's by a guy who yeah a radical nut shot But I'm saying the people a hundred thousand of them there was nothing So we have somebody get shot a black a black guy and they put his knee on his neck Which is horrible as soon as I saw that I said that's a disgrace. This guy is the cop his life is over

For what he did and what I watched yeah, the other three cops are schmucks Just watching him just watching him you're a cop take out your gun to your fellow cop and tell him get your fucking knee off his neck Well fucking shoot you get it off As you shit it did you didn't So you're just as much to blame not as much, but you should be flying and thrown out. You're not a cop. You're not a good cop, anyway.

But to Gerard's point, it seems like back then, public figures were being assassinated. Like you said, the Colombo, JFK, MLK. Now it's just, everyday citizens getting shot, and it's everyday citizens getting me on their neck it's actually that's so different it's a lot of public fears are getting a sassy germany just actually doesn't have to do with america but it's to your point germany actually just

disbanded their highest level of government police what we would say like state police because they said that they had an unfriendly opinion of the elites That was the actual excuse that they gave to disband it they had an unfriendly opinion of the elites So the elites just got rid of them. So yeah, it's upside down It used to be the civilians holding the elites accountable now is the elites holding the civilians at bay It's very strange things certainly have shifted. Yeah, it's almost back to being futile.

Listen, all those people you said, can't have any gotcha. I saw the whole country crying. When you gotcha. I don't see no revolution. I didn't see wars. I didn't see riots. I didn't see anything. Republicans are crying. The same thing with Martin Luther King. I see people, white people, all kinds of people crying. This was a shame. It was a good man

I don't see riots and it's he not all of a sudden Now everything is a riot. Well, let's not forget these people who paid to riot. Yeah, well, they're paid So then who's paying them? How can we never figure that out? No, we know who they are There's a guy from from another country. I can't get it. So? No, we know who they are. There's a guy from another country. George Soros. We know who this guy is. See, that's the difference where Mafia dude. Now, if the Mafia had something to do with this, that guy would be that. Soros? Yeah, without doubt. Mafia would whack him in fucking two seconds. He wouldn't

do it this to us in our country. We had neighborhoods we lived in, we protected people, those Jews living on the side of us. You couldn't fuck with them, with me sitting in the middle, or my father or the whole neighborhood. It didn't happen. We had black people in living in our neighborhood, small little church, good people.

You couldn't fuck with them. We wouldn't allow it. You couldn't come into a neighborhood and rape our women or Kela kid or be a pedophile. We will kill you took you took carry neighborhoods We took out we did we did business. We took care of our neighborhood. They were our people. We love them all Yeah, it was all thing with my father except for people who are rapist or charm or less. There was something like that

We didn't love them. Yeah, and these these things Soros he could if he paid to come and create a right and now when they were hood, but he better stay out of the country So I don't even know how the guy gets away with it or Fauci or these people doing these things. How would he get in the way with it? You couldn't get away with it years ago or in certain mafia areas. But yet, these so-called legitimate people are better than the mafia, and this is happening. I don't get it.

Did you see what happened in Ducktown, Philadelphia? It's impossible to find a video, but to your point, they were rioting in Philadelphia, and then they got down to Ducktown Philadelphia? It's impossible to find a video, but to your point, they were rioting in Philadelphia, and then they got down to Ducktown, and there was a whole bunch of people out there with bats, and then out there in their guinea teas, their wife beaters, and it was white guys, black guys, and they were all, you know, going,

black lives matter was going nuts, and they just stood there, and they were like, you guys are not coming down in this block. They were like, what do you mean when I come down in this block, and they were like, you guys aren't coming down this block. They were like, what do you mean when I come down this block? They're like, you're not coming down this block. This is not, the riot goes that way. Doesn't come this way. And they stopped them.

And there was like three black dudes that were standing with them. And they were like, you guys are gonna, you know, basically, it was very, very vulgar. But they were like, you guys are gonna take his side. They were like, yeah, absolutely. You cross this line. You're in our territory, we're gonna bust you up you up and that was it now that was on the news for about thirty seconds and it was never played again because that was the

blueprint for the rest of the country of how they should handle this how they should handle this they realize that they they put it out on the news because it was salacious and everybody they were gonna get a lot of use and then they took it off the news and it's almost impossible to find online because that is the blueprint for how you do it just fighting fighting back, not taking it. Hey, here's the deal. Exactly. There's the line in the sand. I called the chast pomegranate. Brought up the same one situation. Next is your decision. Right. Listen, I came out of prison. I went and I lived in a regular neighborhood in Arizona. They probably said, Oh, shit, here goes the neighborhood. Everybody blows their horn, waves to me, sees me.

Neighbor comes in, I saw you saying, me you want, I made stew, would you like up? I mean, I get along with everybody. They know that I might be dangerous, I might, whatever. But I'm not now. But they all accepted me like, it was perfect. Neighborly. Yeah, they knew actually they came to me once or twice.

They rented a house, some guys in rented the house, and they were loud with music and this and that. So I said, what do you want me to do? What could you talk to them? I said, I'll think about it. And I did go and talk with them. And I said, bro, the people, they don't, they don't, I talk with them. They're going to call the cops. So you've got to choice. Comment down.

And why are you talking to me? I'm trying to do your favor. Be quiet. You know, certain hours these people got to sleep. They got to live. They got kids. Comment down. Guys, why don't you mind your business? These kids are telling you this? One kid college kids. What are they? Well, I don't know if it's college. They look like fuck. It's the neighbor. One kid. Why don't I mind my business? I said, listen, bro, I'm gonna tell you.

I'm talking to you nice, telling you you can get in trouble with the cops. I'm gonna tell you something else, bro. I don't even like the way you talk. Maybe fuck the cops. Maybe I'll take this as a problem, my problem and your problem. We could do that.

Not a guy tells them, oh, hey a bro. I think that's emulable He Got all fuzzed up with a shit backed up and he stopped They stopped the neighbors love me. They think I'm fucking God to them But I didn't do it and intimidating well. I did it like to tell them, I don't know what to tell them. I don't want to threaten them. I'll tell these guys to give me stupid answers. Well, how do you handle the internet comments that manage such a guy with respect to your soul, school with respect? I mean, the comment section must be...

I don't even bother. I have, you know, we go off, have these tech guys around us. I got a 99 point something great of positive things. So you're gonna get these little creeps sitting in the basement and taxing, you know, this guy's a creep and this guy's no good. I'm sure Patrick has some asshole, and he's a good man, he probably don't have it. But everybody has somebody who wants to be

a little creep in the basement, they get off on it. I don't even bother with them. I don't answer it, I don't bother me. I don't care. Now if I had, you know, many people, maybe that would bother me, but it doesn't bother me. Listen, I had a bad history. I accept what I did and I accept, you know, certain comments about it. I'm not going to make fatherhood a year. I'm not going to make, I'm not going to become the president of the United States. But I'm a human being like everybody else. I did my time. I did whatever I stand up to what I did. Um, I did a lot of good things, bad things and ugly things. So I, I, I, I take that. I don't know. Let it

bother me. It's just avoided. Sammy, let's transition into, uh, uh, you were talking about a couple of guys on the internet. I asked this from Michael, I'm just curious, you know, if you can have any comments on it or not. Names that are coming up recently, Jimmy Kalandras coming up, I think you and him did something together. A.Lights coming up, Johnny Russo, we've had him on as well. What do you think about some of these guys on what they're doing on social? I asked Michael the same question.

I did, I know Jimmy Collendry, he's a friend of mine. And I did have him in my place. He came down, he was going to get a whole towel room, I said listen bro, I'm living alone. You want to just come and live with me? I just got my dog with me. Yeah, yeah, so we lived together for about four, five days. And he came on my show and I did a show with him. We had some laughs.

It's like we're doing, I'm talking. And then one or two people, I don't want to name names, but one or two people exploded because he was arguing with one of those names or a couple of those names he's talking about. And they were saying that I encouraged them to do that, which I didn't encourage them. I encouraged them when I talked to them. I said there's a lot of assholes out there. Put it on the side. Don't get into it. They

want to do this. They want you so they can get hits and they can get subscribers and they can get views. So they try to get into an argument with you. Once you're going back and forth, you're feeding right into what they want. Just put them on the bird. But Jimmy has a little bit of a temper and he didn't. He exchanged back and forth with them a couple of times and they blame me for that. Which it doesn't matter to me. I don't care. And so I don't bother with some of those names, you just mention, I don't even bother with them. I did bother with one because one of them

does a like it. When I came home and I got out of prison, he threw me a couple of dollars right away. First guy. So I try to reciprocate by saying, he's a good guy, he's a tough guy, he's this, he's that, he's trying to help him with a show and all that bullshit.

Then he wanted me to come on and do certain things and I didn't want to be bothered with that. I'm not, I'm a truthful person. If I do something, listen, I take credit for that. Or maybe that's not the word credit, but I take my responsibility for what I did. I mean, I got people that are calling me, I got people's kids.

That murder is I'm involved, and I spoke to them. People's families, I spoke to them. This is what happened. This is what it was. This is what the truth is. Of course, a lot of them stuff they hear is lies. In other words, I'm involved in three mafia wars, 19 murders, I didn't go out and I never got up

one morning and said, listen, I'm gonna go kill somebody. I was part of the mafia. So, what day? One woman at my sentence, along with her name, she told my judge when I was a post-gating sentence. Give him life. It's a killer. He's death. He's that. He's a serial killer. He's death.

So the judge looked at him and read how statement. And the judge says, your brother that we are talking for was in his crew. Did it ever bother you? He was killing people with him. And only bothered you when he got killed. It never bothered you before killing other people. He just shot her fucking right the fuck down with that statement really. And it was truthful. And they just disregarded what she was saying because it was all bullshit. So that's what you deal with. You deal with all this hypothetical bullshit. You know, you

protecting him. He was the saint. Anybody who died there are saints. You know, after they died. But before they died, they were involved in five murders or whatever. How did, when did they become the same, after he died? So, so in your mind is, is anybody that was in that life, they were fair game, they got what they signed up for, anybody, you know, the real problem is if somebody had done something like Domeo did things to people outside of life, that's crossing the line. Two things, I'll get to the main one. But the thing is, this is going to sound strange,

but I'm a samurai warrior. In Japan, they're a samurai. They fight. They're very dangerous. They cut off arms, heads, legs. When they lose battles, they take a fucking thing and they're stabbing it. There was a culture in Japan. They're samurai. They're warriors. They're loved over there and respected. But they don't do this outside of their thing. So when I'm talking to somebody now,

the guy called me a samurai, warrior. He said, you have the mafia as a culture within this country that did a lot of good things, a lot of fucked up things. But we didn't, within our culture. So we're warriors, maybe not Japanese and a monosemarist, but similar, if you want to break it down. And every country has that culture. So we're different, which will lead me right into Roy Domeo.

Roy Domeo became a serial killer. I mean, I'm about to do a video about him in his crew. One time I went to him and Paul was going to make guys. And I knew him. And I said, they're going to open the books again and they're going to make guys. You got some good guys around you. You're going to put anybody up for it. He says, him, my coffee boy, killed five people with me. What? You're coffee boy, kill five people. Yeah.

He says, I got 200 hits, 200. I said, what the fuck is giving you this kind of work? He says, nobody. I get a lot of work from the boss and this and that, from Nino. But we have the ball on the corner. He said, my uncle works there. There's the column Dracula. He says he calls me out before 30, 3, 30, we're playing cards.

Tells me there's a guy left. One guy drunk. We come in, we snatch him, we bring him in, we're playing cards. Tells me there's a guy left, one guy drunk. We come in, we snatch him, we bring him in, we kill him. Call him up, get rid of him. The guy did nothing? No. I keep my crew tight, chop, you know what I mean? And then one day it's like that, I said, yeah, yeah. I do the same thing.

Yeah. But in my head I was saying, this is a sick fucking guy. He crossed that line. He's a fucking serial. He's killing fucking innocent people. And this is why the mafia killed him. We're not serial killers. If we become a rapist, a child molester, or a serial

killer, we will kill you. With that amount of rights. We will kill you. We're not proud of you. We don't like you. We will kill you. We kill for different reasons. You broke rules, and you did certain things.

But those things, you were got killed for sure. We don't even fuck who you are. So, there's a difference in our life. It's hard to understand, I think, for other people, legitimate people don't understand it. And this is why I'm trying to do in my scripted show. I'm doing a scene that I go after another Hikai, an older, very, very experienced Hikai. I'm young. I'm a guy already. But not a pimple on his ass. They picked me to go after them because they feel that this guy who's very, very smart, very sharp, very

conny will underestimate me. He will underestimate my looks, I look young, I'm supposed to be, he's told a joke off a guy who brings messages and send, I think, pulled us off. And this is the head on Johnny Keys. And I did. I stabbed them. I had them in a truck in a jack off, a messenger. With five families in New York and the Philadelphia family couldn't do, you did, you have me setting you this van. It was the most amazing fucking thing I've heard. Now when we do this, I don't want to do it in my movie, where I just shoot him or fight for us. The people of wanna make it known what went through his head and what went through my head. They're going to see what made both of us tech. I just shoot a mob gang and doing this and doing that.

It's going to be different. They talked to me in the van. They said, you're good. You're really good. You fucked up a little bit. Okay, what I do. He said, look at the windows. Truckers, they have these CVs. They're looking this window.

They'll see me. They'll tie it up. They'll see you. They'll see these other guys guys they'll call the cops. I was thinking he's critiquing him. I'm looking at him and I'm saying to my head I say a word but I'm saying to myself He's telling me how to do a hit on himself. You know what cops involved? The fuck kind of guy do I got here? Then he tells me we're talking, like we are, Sam, go in my pocket, I got pills in it. What kind of pills?

Nitroglicin and pills. I have pains in my chest and I want to die of a heart attack. I go in his pocket. As I take them and out, he says, put one under my tongue. If I don't get better, put one another one every five minutes. I put one in his mouth. Now I'm saying to myself, you don't want to die of a heart attack. He's about to die. He knows it.

You don't want to dive on. We talk. I get to know him. I for a love with him. I love him more than any fucking man on the planet. He's he. He's what Mafia is about. He what goes on on show is about. He showed me how to die like a man. Later on he says, say a man, I want two favors more. What? The guy who pulls the trigger, if it's not you, let it be a friend of ours, meaning a

mate guy. You got it. And take my shoes off. Why do you want me to take your shoes off? He says, I told my wife, she knew I was in this life. She knew there was a war that broke out in Philadelphia. I told my wife, I'll die with my shoes off. Don't worry about it.

Meaning you'll be home with your shoes off. He's not going to die in the street. That's a pretty heavy stuff, bro. He said, she'll know I was thinking about her in my final minutes of life. I didn't want to kill this guy. It broke my fucking heart. What kind of guy is this? But I was on the orders. I did kill him. It keeps going for one to walk for what I did.

The next day I drove to the Poehl's house. It was done. It was in the papers that a heavyweight mob stood by the name of Johnny Keys was found in Staten Island and dumps that were no shoes on. When I went to Poehl's house, the maid let me in. Poe got up and came running over. Grab me.

You did it. I didn't answer. He said, what's the matter? I said, what I did last night, I killed what my fear night. I killed what my fear was about, what goes on Austria is about, what we're about. It should have been the boss, not Nicky. I'm not happy about it. I feel dirty. He said, anybody else will be jumping up and down. They're gonna know our family took you did it.

Nicky's gonna know he won the war, and you did it. And you're disturbed. Yeah, I don't give a fuck what they think. He said to me, Sammy, don't change. Stay like that. Grab me hug me, kiss me, let me go. I don't wanna talk about this no more. Of course, it fucking wrecks me thinking about him. And he taught me how to die.

I always wondered if my time comes from ever in a van, my last minute, when did it take, guy, when did it's cancer, whatever the fuck it is, could I die like this guy? Could I be him? I hope so. You know, you never beg to change your mind. You ever try to talk about him?

He tried to do one thing once. At the end, he said, Sam, I have a lot of money. I can make him a very wealthy man. I said, please, John, don't do that. I've developed a tremendous fucking respect for you. You told me this is going to last. I'm telling you, it is going to last.

There's no money in the fucking world that's trying to stop me. And don't do it. Don't even say it. A smile. You are going to last. Throw and throw. Record tears.

Don't do that. Dogs, my fiosos. gangsters, they do that. He was a gangster. There's a difference. Going back to the original question. There's a difference in the stories about making money and about that. There's no money in the fucking world. And the respect I have, then,

the love, I'm not ashamed to say I love another man. I don't, not in that way, but in the respect I have for it. And I, I talked about it on my podcast. And it's actually, it sounds like a commercial, so I'm not even going to say it. We're part of it. It's on my podcast. And it's an incredible thing.

And to me, it was a lesson and it goes a little short that I learned that is the most amazing thing in the fucking world. And I, about life, about life. How this man thought about his wife, what the fuck, at 70 years old, he has a fuck about their wife, how she thinks when she, he drops that, it's, it's, it's, don't even exist.

This guy did that. So, I don't know. What a way to answer the question, by the way. Took you 45 minutes to answer the question, not the way. Took you 45 minutes to answer the question, not even 45 minutes, and hour to answer the question, and you answered it that way, the difference between a racketeer and a gangster. I would have never thought the way you do,

that made it very clear between the two. Sammy, not to transition out on this story. For me, I see you and I see you telling the stories. You're a true believer in the world you chose to live. I don't think to you was about the lifestyle. I think to you was more about the code of that life. The one question, when I listen to you, you're very charming, you're very charismatic,

you're extremely believable, and you're in your own way, you're inspirational, which is very interesting. Do you ever think about that maybe the other side of this question is, do you ever think about maybe you're inspiring people to want to be like you? Do you think you're inspiring younger guys

to want to become gangsters? Or what part of your message is to say, do not choose to live my life? Because you don't even know it yourself. That last 20 minutes, if a 20-year-old kid listens to that, that message may be like, well, I want to be that guy, because I want to be... I want people to be proud of me to get...

If a guy like that got, you know, Sammy to get emotional on the podcast where he said, I don't wanna talk about it anymore, I wanna get that kind of respect in my life. Can you please unpack that so young person listening to this is not gonna get stuck on the fact that I wanna be that person one day? I said it a hundred times.

You wanna be make God. I got 22 years in prison. I killed people, friends. I've seen death over and over again. There's no win in being a gangster. Freedom is the most important thing you can be. Don't take me as a fucking hell. I'll take him. Look at Patrick. He needs to do a lot of things. A lot of money. Well, think. Good life. Just out of baby. I lost all that. This isn't something to recruit. This is something to understand what you'll be.

You'll kill your fucking best friend on orders. And then you'll do it or you'll die. You may not live to fucking 40. And if you don't, probably a good hunker that'll be in prisons. They'll tell you when to shit, when to eat, when to go to sleep, when to get up. If that's what you want. But there's life out here like I'm doing now. You want to be me? I'll make a money doing legitimate things. And it's not just because it's my story.

I could do it at anybody's store. There's a bunch of different ways in life. You don't have to go to college. There's money being a fucking carpenter, a plumber, a electrician, in trades, your fuck college. They make a lot of money. Fuck up your bowl, you're a sink. Call a plumber, see what happens.

up your bowl, you're telling your sink, call a plumber, see what happens. I come 10 to 15, 20 minutes a half hour and you went for fucking 200. Trade schools. Trade schools become, become something else, because learn how to edit out of this, there's an industry out here doing this. There's people sitting around us all over the place, they make a limit. They don't go to prison, they go home, they their wife, their kids, their mothers, their fathers, do it. This is not to be crude. This is to make you understand Johnny keys in that cut. You could have been Johnny keys. I could have been Johnny keys. There's no

recruiting. I mean if you want to, if I can't stop people from being crooks or gangsters or anything else, but my life is a perfect life. Look at it. I don't know why I am. I guess God sometimes, I believe in God too. I guess God, I was shot twice, stabbed once. Is there a special, is there a thing you need or want from me

that you want me to do? How do I survive these fucking things? Wasn't easy. Wasn't easy on my wife or my kids. So if you think this is a good role for you, fuck you, go do it. But I'm telling you, you're not going to wind up in a good way. So, but I'm not going to, you know, I don't go telling kids what to do and what not to do. Do whatever you want to do.

How do you still believe in God after everything you've seen and you've been through? How do you still have that faith? You know, faith is, I always believe in God. When I went to prison, I joined an Indian group. Indian. Native American, or Indian? Native American. I joined the group because they shut down smoking in 2004, I believe it was. I wanted to smoke and there was no smoke in the prisons. The federal prison, you were done.

It was awful. So I saw them smoking in a circle, passing the pizza pipe around. Wow. I went to them, and I said, listen, I'd like to join. Because they had probably religious exclusions or stuff. Yes, well, so they said, you've got to go to the chaplain in feds, they could change a religion. So I said, OK, I go to the chaplain in feds, they could change a religion. So I said, OK, I went to the chaplain

as I want to become a native American. They did it. They changed my religion. And I went in that circle. They accepted me and I smoked. And I stole some of that tobacco to bring it back into my cell. So when I had night, I put on the TV, nice cup of coffee, I laid a cigarette after the

God makes his rounds and I smoked my fucking brains out. But I got to respect their religion. What is their religion? Their religion is they believe in grandfather. The grandfather is a road to God. They believe in God like anybody else. The higher power. Yeah, everybody believes in God.

The Muslims believe in God. Allah, everybody believes in God. The Muslims believe in God. They go to God. The Christians believe in it. Jews believe in it. Everybody believes that everybody has a separate road to God. I'm no different. I'm just not on some of your roads. You tell me, well, if you didn't find Jesus, you ain't going to have it. Yeah. Well, maybe I won't. Maybe I won't. I don't know. But I believe in God just like everybody else. So this grandfather, they talk about this religion. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, grandfather, you know, that's, that's their religion. I did it for five years with that. I even went into Wicker. Some guys, friends of mine said, Sammy, you're not an Indian? No. That's the witches.

Well, it's a witches, it's not witches like you see on television, the witches is in their religion on which is nothing more than a term like a priest, a rabbi over there. He's a witch. He can't perform anything as a witch. We can't do anything about There's a black magic tool. That's television shit. But the wicket, they do have some weird, but they're still a religion that wants to go wherever. The whole religion's got some weird shit. But that's an organization and they're wrote and they're money. But God is God. Everybody believes in God. Some to different degrees and weird degrees and whatever. But of course I believe in God.

You know, I learned how to do art work in prison. Sometimes in Arizona where I'm living. But with pretty legit work though. Like this is not like art work, like artwork, like real work. I've seen some of the work he done it's it's very impressive painting like oh no no seriously like I mean I do charcoal do you have any afterwards can you show them some of the pics yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but in Arizona I get up and I look at the sunset or the sunrise or something and I look at it and it's so fucking beautiful.

And I say, who could do that? God, who could do that beauty? Who could do the beauty around you? Who could have babies coming out of a woman's body? Who could have babies coming out of a woman's body? God has got to be in there somewhere, and everybody's mind. The worst of the worst, I think, unless he's completely insane. I'm not insane. So I believe in God.

And I believe that whatever I did when it comes time and I talked to him if I could get up there somewhere and we're gonna have an argument about everything I did that's what people will tell me and I'm gonna talk to him about everything he did there's so many kids that die in so many ugly fucking ways, bro. You couldn't stop me anytime you wanted. You could stop that anytime you wanted. It's got to be a purpose. There's got to be reasons why things happen. I don't, one thing I'm not is a fake or a phony or a liar. I did a lot of horrible things, but I'm not, is a fake, or a phony, or a liar. I did a lot of horrible things, but I'm none of those things.

And I think God will look at me and say, you were none of those. I make lambs, and I make lions. You were a fucking lion. Maybe that's the answer. I don't know. I really don't know. It's not to really discuss now or tell

other people that they're religion is wrong or my religion is right or yours is wrong. You do you this you Muslim. Here's a war right God of the time in it. Now sometime or we'll go back to Wicca where all energy our body is energy when we die our body energy goes and floats all over to animals to trees to bushes to have some another human to other things so that's an interesting thought too so I don't knock anybody's religion or anybody's anything. They have their own opinions, their own choice. That's what we need. And we need to respect everybody else's choices.

I think that's the next sit down. I'd watch that, the sit down, the Sammy and God across the table have to sit down. That's the we got 26 minutes left. And I got a couple things I do want to get into. One of the things I want to get into is if you can pull up Rudy's clip when Rudy talks about Michael, Gadi and Sammy when I asked a question about are some people, is this the one, Kai? Yeah, and he's really bad.

And are some people inherently bad and what he says about that. So if you can play this do you think if a Sammy if a Michael if a Frank if a Leonetti had your parenting and your upbringing meaning your parents your mom and dad do you think they would have gone straight or do you think it's in them to say no I'm still gonna go do the shortcut what do you think it's in him to say, no, I'm still going to go do the shortcut. What do you think? It's a little hard to say about the people you don't know. So let me tell you about Michael, because I know Michael

the best. There's no doubt that if Michael had the right direction and the right parenting, he'd have been a very successful legitimate. Something important, a decent guy, respected his father, which is a good thing, except it was a wrong father or respect, right? And I'm going to guess on the others just what I know of, I think there are a few people

that are genetically inherently bad, evil, evil. But most people are shaped that way by circumstances. I think I could have gone the other way if my parents kept me in Brooklyn. I mean, I hope I wouldn't have. I hope something else would have stopped me, but there's a chance I could have gone in the other direction. So when I prosecuted people, it was always a sense of empathy for them. So they were quite human. I mean, they were human people. Some of them were, were, got, gotty. It was a guy who liked killing. There's something sinister and sadistic about John. You believe that. I know that. How about Sammy? Don't know.

Okay. Don't know. Don't know. What do you think about what you have to say? I don't know. I think he looked gay when he was, I'm gonna do new. I don't know who he was fucking mad at me.

I don't know what the fuck. You're not a fan of Rudy. I'm not a fan of Rudy. No, I'm not a fan of Rudy. No, I'm not a fan of Rudy. Listen, I'm not against cops and prosecutors. I am against when you think what you did is harmless. You're an Italian. He's an Italian, I was so.

You're an Italian. He's an Italian, I was so. Which you did to your own kind on many occasions. You have no flaws. Your mom and dad was perfect, depending on their upbringing. That's an insult to me. My upbringing was impeccable from my family. I'm the total opposite of what they were.

And I don't think so. I think I got a good side. And I think I got the good side from them. But when you sit down and you make judgments like that, I don't know. Of course, he don't know me from a fucking hall in the wall. So he can't really make a proper decision. He actually says nice things about Michael.

Michael must have paid him off to say these fucking things. But he said some nice things about Michael. But I don't like. Right. I could tears out money. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I could tears out money.

So he's looking at a record. So anyway, what I was going to say is that the part of saying he looked up to his father, that's a good thing, but not that father, so he's knocking his father. So I don't think that's a good thing to even say. If you like them and he did a good thing and he said a good thing, I think son he was a good thing, a good father, in a good way. In a different way, he was a gangster, he was the ultimate type of gangster. He didn't instill anything negative in a way. I think he instilled that he loved them in his way. I don't think I instilled anything negative to my son and my daughter, I probably did in our way.

Maybe your mother and father, maybe your mother and father, or your mother and father had put something in your mind in a way. And we're going to blame them because you're not 100% like he wants you to be. I don't buy that. Now there's a lot of things your mother and father teach you that are wrong. But they mean well. There's a difference. He don't understand that.

There's a, they'll tell a girl what to do. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe it won't work for them. But they meant well. Now the time changed. So it may not work out well for the girl or the guy or whatever. When you get into families and you talk about families and things like that, each person is an individual. Nobody does exactly like them whether or for other teachers that nobody does. There's your environment, the neighborhood,

your friends, your relatives, other people, your marriage. There's so many fucking things that form your life and how you think. Things you see. I sort of movie George. I sort that fucking shock eating people bro I'm like a little dick. I don't I don't go pass my knees in the fucking water This guy must have your jeans Shark can't get me on land bro taking you out I don't want to be a londy bastard for some fucking shock I don't want to be a Lundy Baster for some fucking shock. I'm the whole book, babe. You won't go with. God, they make fun of me, man.

I'll go swim out there. I'm swimming laps. He's like up to his ankles. I'm not going anywhere. That's all good, bro. Put me on land with a gorilla. I'll take my chances out there. I'm on the plate, man.

What do you think about what he said about Goddy? Like he said, Goddy, I know. He didn't say like, I know Goddy's a killer. I think Goddy had a temper I I Think John was more of a narcissist I think a lot of people say well, I don't think he ever shot Well, I put your head in front of when he's holding on the gun. See, I'll do it. I think

I blow your fucking head off in two seconds, fly it if he wanted to. So, to say he didn't pull the trigger, he gave an order. He can kill. Be sure. I think he got a temper and a half. I think there was a couple of situations where his neighbor, it was an accident and they killed a neighbor and the neighbor disappeared and all that bullshit. But I think he was goaded into that by his wife, drove him fucking nuts. Plus he was sick about losing a child. He made a mistake, my opinion. So when you do those kinds of things, when you kill outside the life for

reasons like that, you're gonna be looked at in a whole different light. Like we were talked about before. You're killing somebody, I didn't send person. My stomach is hit by a car. My neighbor, he's still, I think he's still alive, but if he's dead, he's 100 years old. So that's the only reason he's dead. No, I didn't kill him. I wouldn't do that, but it's an accident. So I don't know, I don't want to label John as he loved to kill. I don't think he loved to kill anymore,

denied it in love to kill. He didn't what he had to do for the life. I loved him. I was attached at the hip with him. He turned on me back there. I turned on him. We played chess. I checked me.

Simple as that. I have no hard feelings towards him. If we were alive together now and I know what I know now, I would shoot him in the fucking head in two seconds. Boom. Right now. Right here. towards them if we were alive together now and I know what I know now I'm shooting them in the fucking head in two seconds. Boom right now right here. Fuckin' fuck them. Straight up. You betrayed me. I did everything for you. I got you out of every case on behind and the government knows it. Every case he beat I'm fucking behind it. Driving people, threatening people, doing all kinds of shit.

Making things disappear. Killing people for you. Where I'm going, I'm going to show it together where brothers. It's your tape. It's you on tape. Not me. And you want to sacrifice me. You want to help the government put me away.

So I turned on him. If you turn on me, I will turn on you. I don't turn on people. I don't back there. I don't fuck people. But if you turn on me, or you fuck with me, I'm going to fuck with you, or I'm going to turn on you. I don't take it lightly.

And I'm aggressive in that fashion right away. And that's what happened. but I do love him. I feel bad how he died. He died like a fucking animal in prison. And this guy talking about, he looked and killed, you know, fucking you know, you fucking asshole, what do you know? What do you know?

How many people did you fucking put away? Did you bury? Do you have any fucking shame or any fucking grief, sometimes I forbid their humans, no you can't feel fucking bad, you fucking dick. You don't feel bad. Sammy, some people may say, you know, they call them the American mayor, okay. And the streets of New York, if you ask regular guys that are not in the life and you ask about Rudy

They'll say he cleaned the streets of New York. I felt safer because of Giuliani. I felt safer because of what Rudy did Law and order gave me a certain level of peace. I was living in that community. I was scared for my life I was scared. I'm always gonna happen and you hear these stories you hear these stories being told I felt that way Okay, I liked what he did okay as a me Got it. So him cleaning the streets on what he did. Yeah You can boast about that old the fuck you want You can even boast about being the cop I know plenty of cops and ages they have a job to look for me a bad guy and put me to fuck away

I'm not mad at them. Don't do that. Don't say that. But the fuck you know about John Gotti is my opinion. Shut your fucking mouth in that area. Bost about what you did. Bost about what you did on 9-11. Bost about cleaning up the city.

I'm with you. You did that. I agree. You were great. You wanted a better man's. I'll have a whole conversation about him. He's a great man. I don't like his statements. I don't like his statements about parents, our parents. I'm not talking about your parents. I don't like you. I'm not talking about what your parents taught you. I don't give a fuck about your parents. But, and I understand how people feel about it.

Now, they're the same people could understand how I feel about it. And if they don't, that fucking dislike me, or do what you want. There's a two-way street with everything and everybody. I talked to you the other night. You're a classy fucking guy. What you do is in your life. The people you have around you. It's a class fucking act. Now I got to try to think of something. I don't like about you. So I could say something. I'll find something sooner or later. But I'll find it. Right now I don't have it.

We're all looking, Sammy, all of us. Sammy, we talked when we sat down. We also talked about the chin. We talked about the chin multiple times. And did you see when Michael was here on the podcast? Or you didn't see? Yeah. So you saw in the video about chin or no? Did you see? I was here on the podcast? So you didn't see? Yeah, yeah.

So you saw in the video about Chen or no? Did you see? I think I did. OK, so you heard what Rudy said about Chen. He was never a number. He thought he was number two, but he was really number six. How long is that clip, by the way? Is it a shorter clip?

It's just the one where Michael took a walk with us. No, no, this is not this one. I want you to. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so go from the part what he says You have the beginning part what they say about the chin. Yeah, did we play that last time or no? No, he started okay, so why don't you go and play what Michael and Sammy said about the chin and then go to what Rudy says about the chin Said what do you want to say? Yeah, the walls?

said, what do you want to say? You had the balls, he was going to the Russia, we had the brains to say, this is people in Los Angeles, you told another boss, John was the boss, told another boss. That we were going to do a big raid, and we were going to arrest the number one or number two people in each family. They did that about two weeks before. Well, Ginger Giganti, who thought he was number two in the Chinese family, but he wasn't, because everybody hated him. They told him he was number two. It was like number eight. Shin as the guy walked around on the roads and act like he was crazy. Well, he was crazy. He was a borderline personality disorder in the military, he was actually, I think, officially, officially diagnosed as a parent and excuse a friend. He was. Yeah, somebody played it out. So, this information comes out, money issues comes in're not going to believe this. Shin checked himself in a hospital.

He thinks we're going to arrest him. It can be very disappointing when we don't arrest him. Did you end up with your eventually, but not for that. We're not for that. So it just played to the whole world. They've been lying to him. To several years tell you, Shin, you're number two. You're number two.

You're the first to get Shin's prairie. You know, it was in the check. Wow number two. You know, I wanted to get Shen's prairie, you know, was in the Shen. Wow. That's how he knew he was nuts. So he made him think he was number two. But he never, he said, how come I don't go to the, how come I don't go to the commission meetings on number two? They say, you know, Shen, you're too high profile.

You're with that bad throw, but all that stuff. If they see you walking in, they don't know where we're having the meetings. He is so fucking off base with that whole conversation, it's incredible. First of all, I knew and I had a dozen serious meetings which he was extremely smart, extremely smart. He was number two under a fat Tony for one reason. The boss before fat Tony who died. I can't think of his fucking name but it doesn't matter. He brought in Chen. Chen was the the gangster part of that. He brought in

Chen and he says I'm gonna make fat Tony the boss. It's my decision. I want you to promise me you don't kill him. Be his number two. In time you'll become number one. Promise me. Tim promised him. He allowed that to happen. Chin was five times more vicious, smarter, and every way had a bigger following than Fat Tony. Fat Tony, I loved him. He was a great guy. So that's the way it felt, so he's wrong. And then I went to commission meetings.

I was there just for security. When Chin, Fat Tony came and I was there just for security when Chin, the fat Tony came and poor was there. There's even a tape of that meeting when guys are coming out of the house, not inside or anything like that. But anyway, then he told fat Tony, it's time for you to step down. And he stepped down. And Chin was number. And Chint was number one. And I was at those commission meetings with John, even after Paul, with Chint.

And Benny Aigz was his under boss. So he don't know what the fuck he's talking about at all. And he wasn't stupid. He did this little scare. And he put himself in and out of hospitals so that when they call when he's indicted and They call doctors and things and that he he's beating for years He doesn't understand so you can't charge a man who doesn't understand what the charges are what it is

He's mentally insane. He played that. In my opinion, that's the only thing I didn't like about shit. He played that too much. One time, agents came to his house, he ran upstairs. He got to make it under the shower with an umbrella, with his mother. You do that in front of your mother. It's a little excessive for me.

And if you're that bothered by going to prison, then take your bayons or maidens, whatever you had, and leave them off. You're fucked. You're walk away. What you're doing? Somewhere along the line, you have to have a little bit more integrity. have a little bit more integrity. When my lawyer went on a visit where he was in Texas, after he was convicted, my lawyer was representing somebody in the room and Chin had already been convicted. He came out, he was talking perfect on his visits and everything else. Of course, they found him guilty that they're mad and normal. He was talking perfect. So my lawyer says,

Sammy, it's not crazy at all. He was talking perfect. I heard him the whole time. I said, I know, it was an act. So I don't even know what he's doing. So he's absolutely wrong. And I can give you story after story, which I'm not going to give you right now. Of meetings I have with him that are important.

Some of them are on my podcast. He was a sharpens attack. And I don't know if anybody, anybody in the mafia who would have said, fuck him, he's fucking him. anybody, anybody in the mafia who would have said fuck him, he would kill you in a second flattened no hesitation would have none. Everybody under him loved him. And he had a ran a tight ship and a tight family. So, and he's totally wrong. So, all of you people who love him, when he talks like that don't know what he's talking about,

I would like for me and him to go to a doctor together so I can get my foot out of his S because it would take a few doctors. Rudy. Rudy, my foot would fit perfect in his S. Tony in it in the head. Can you show us what that would look like with Gerard right now just so we get an actual glimpse. No, no, no. It was something like that would actually go down. That's for the show. Wow. I got to take a. Yeah, we got two minutes left to wrap. Yeah, it's going to be.

We got to take a break to wrap up here. Four minutes left. So one question. I asked, I don't know who this conversation came up. It may have been with Chas Palmentary that we talked about. We've done a lot of different things that have you, have you had any conversations or talks with junior at all? Who's junior?

Got a junior. No. No talks. No. You know what the world would be curious to see? It'd be very interesting if the two of you guys had a sit now. And I know you would never do it.

I know you would. No, I'm not interested in sitting down with him. See, Michael was a different story. I didn't hate, I didn't, even when I didn't get along with Michael, I didn't hate him. I think that he said certain things that were not true about me, about John, about a few things that he says, I saw saw now in a new one where he was walking up and down with chin in the bathroom before that and Chin told them if junior knows to make you a captain. I'll make you one of mine. I Makes sense. Okay. Yeah, we already want to talk about that. Children didn't have nobody come to him. There was a main guy in the Colombo family

who used his name to get there. He had him called, then he was this close this guy to get killed because he used his name. So he wasn't the boss. He was a power out. I mean, and he was tough, but he was pretty fat in different ways. I mean, I had a couple of good decisions. And one of the decisions is, there was a whole head.

It's a long story. I'm not going to get into it. But when at the end, he called me down again for a final meeting and I had permission to whack a few people and he said, I want you to do me a favor. To these kids that you could hurt, belong to a friend of ours, we took him out, we take care of his wife and those kids. I want to ask you for a favor, give them a pass. They were that wrong that he had to ask. And I said, okay, I will do that, but I want to ask you for a favor. He was a boss. I was just a pup. I think Captain

a pop acting captain. He said what? I said this kid's Apache who gave me all this information and caused this whole thing is what you people. I know now that you know this whole thing. You're going to wind up killing him because he came to us and not use he created this What do you want I want you to give him a pass He saved my life this kid I'll give him a give him a pass and I'll give those two kids you want a pass That's pretty smart to me. He put his hand out, we shook hands, and nobody got killed after that. So and it's a whole long story and you can't see that on Patrick's interview. I'm not podcasting.

We got to put a bunch of put his link below for his podcast so people can go subscribe. Geng if you enjoyed today's podcast give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the channel mafia states of America for Sammy. What's that? Absolutely for Sammy. What's the? Oh, oh, we got Sammy. Yes, that's right So we got a merge If your team Sammy We have Sammy's shirts up here now. Can you put up the link? Hi Sammy? This is for you team Gravano Right now we have a team Gervano going on we have a team Francis going on. If your team Gervano go order team Gervano shirt. I put the link below so

people can go order team Gervano. People are asking when is my few states of America going to come up come out here. Here's how it's going to work out. It's either going to come out in Q4 of 2021 or it's going to come out in 2022, But it's eventually gonna come out, okay? And when we make that announcement, I'm sure the world's gonna go crazy. Lots of people are upset when I say 2022, but we're working on it, we're finalizing it today, you're gonna get a sneak peak of some of the stuff

that we're doing, which is gonna be exciting. But we're looking forward to launching that to the world, Sammy. Great. And I wanna tell the people who are watching over here, listen, it's gonna come out in 2021 Don't amend your statement at all. That could be by the way I think it's safe to say it's coming out of 2018. That could be October 1st, but that could also be December 31st. What is happening in 2024, 2021?

That FBI, if you're listening to this, that was a trend. I can't take care of everybody. We'll see you on Thursday. Take care, Sammy. Bye bye. This was great. This was wonderful. We'll see you on Thursday. Take care, Sammy. Bye bye.

Bye bye bye. This was great. This was wonderful.