PBD Podcast - Stephen A. Smith | PBD Podcast | Ep. 385

Starting point is 00:00:00 This NBA season, make every three-pointer alley-oop and buzzer-beater even more exciting with FanDuel. Download the app today to see why we're North America's number one sportsbook. 19-plus and physically located in Ontario. Gamling Tom, call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Okay, so we have a special guest in the house today. Episode, Rob, what number are we on? 385. This is not the first time we're doing a show together. We did one together in New York, in Connecticut.

Starting point is 00:00:53 I think it was New York right after I had a meeting with Ray Dalio. There's a few things you need to know about him. Let me first brag about some of the accomplishments. New York Times bestselling author, straight shooter shooter a memoir of second chances and first first takes He's got a YouTube channel show podcast. That's absolutely blowing up the Stephen A. Smith show which you can follow if there's a guy that I Will gladly and happily I've probably I want to say I've probably consumed I can say a hundred plus hours of his content over the years.

Starting point is 00:01:27 It's probably hundreds because my mornings would start off with having to hear what he had to say because I don't watch games. I watch takes. I like takes. I always like to see how somebody processes issues, debates. I'm always interested in that. And in my opinion, he's the goat in his space. I don't think there's anybody that's better than him in his space and I've watched many and I'm 45 so you can

Starting point is 00:01:49 go back you know Chris Berman all I think he's the best in the space in my opinion you guys can fight it out all you want and that's just my opinion where I stand now a couple things that's a little bit deeply concerning with him is why he's such a die-hard Cowboys fan I don't believe I've tried to figure this thing out because he's not from, like I'm trying to see why would he love the Cowboys as much as he does. I've asked around folks, I've ran polls, I've hired investigators, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:02:14 I'm trying to figure that part out. He is a big fan of Miami, he's not a fan of weed, so if you're smoking weed and listening to this, get off the podcast, right? Because he just doesn't like it. With that being said, we got the great Stephen A. get off the podcast. He just doesn't like it. With that being said, we got the great Stephen A Smith in the house. What's going on? How y'all doing? Good to see all of y'all man. I'm a huge fan of the show. How y'all doing? Very good. Good to

Starting point is 00:02:35 be here. I like it. I like it. We got we got a lot of stories we're going to be going with you here. A lot of stories. Obviously, we have to cover your inner desire to debate this man named Donald Trump. We're going to talk a little bit of politics. We're going to talk the black vote. We're going to talk weed. We're going to talk what happened to LeVar Ball. I'm curious. We're going to talk New York. What's going on with New York? Fatherhood, very interesting part in your story with your pops. I think, you know, fathers play a very big role. We'll talk about that with you. Biggie Tupac, I'm curious to know where you stand amongst those two. And I got a bunch of other stories that we'll go through.

Starting point is 00:03:10 I'm here for it. And one of them, you know, it's very important because I've seen you speak and you're probably one of the best communicators, right? They say certain people are man of few words, certain people are man of many words, and I like to study styles of communication and what's going on with different kinds of things. I'll ask you about this one guy later on in the topic. I got questions for you about LBJ and your thoughts on that. A little bit of pipping and a couple of other stories. One personal story I want to ask you about Zion Williamson.

Starting point is 00:03:44 I'll tell you why because I'm just curious to know what's going gonna happen with this career, but let's start off with the first thing so Steven a I I watched you, you know when when the average person thinks of you they think of The guy that gives the best takes when it comes on to sports, okay, that's you right but every time I watched you I would watch your Right, but every time I watched you I would watch your Interest in almost like adding a little bit of politics in it But you wouldn't fully go there and you didn't for many years, right? It was a little bit more subtle you did say certain things you said I think the black but you know needs to vote for GOP

Starting point is 00:04:20 I think 10 or 11 years ago you were on CNN kind of given your Positioning on white what that is, but you would always go back to sports. Yes, recently. I've seen you you started your podcast You've had Hannity on and you guys are friends. You've had come on and your friends You know me you and Como talk, you know, and we have interesting conversations Is it the fact that you've always been interested in politics or is it the fact that you're at a certain age in your life? Where you feel like I have more to say than just sports and I want to give my opinion to it what's the reasoning for that? It's both. Okay. I've always been interested in politics. I mean to me shockingly as it

Starting point is 00:04:56 may sound to a lot of people the Super Bowl is the big deal okay the big deal the big sporting event obviously I'm a basketball guy, so I love the NBA and I love the NBA finals, but the Super Bowl, I mean, is it right now. Everybody, I mean, this is an event, and the NFL is an event every week, what have you, but the Super Bowl is it. The next biggest event to me, me personally,

Starting point is 00:05:19 has always been presidential debates. Get outta here. I, I, I mean, I'm talking about Clinton against H.W. I'm talking about, you know, I'm looking at Barack Obama going up, obviously, against John McCain. I'm thinking about Al Gore and W. Bush. I'm thinking about Walter Mondale and Reagan. You know, I mean, all of this stuff,

Starting point is 00:05:46 I just watched, I remember when, you know, HW was going up against Michael Dukakis, you know, out of Massachusetts. I mean, I've been watching politics all my life. I would grow up and I would not miss Peter Jennings. I would not miss Ted Koppel, Nightline. I'd watch all of this stuff, and I would, you know, knowing their brilliance, their intellect, what they brought to the table, I respected the hell out of it.

Starting point is 00:06:12 But what I lamented about it was this need to come across as completely neutral, because I believe that part was not true. I don't believe, as human beings, we don't feel anything. You feel something, you believe something, you're siding with something, but they would go out of their way to make sure you didn't know what it was. I understood the importance of it because they were hosts, but in the same breath, because I had such profound respect for them and their professionalism. It had me craving To know what they believed and I would never find it out and I would say if I ever get in television

Starting point is 00:06:53 You're gonna know where I stay You know, you're not gonna wonder about where I'm at And and and you know and how I would protect myself from it is that I would always leave myself open to being corrected. It wasn't finite. This is what I believe. Here's why. Show me I'm wrong.

Starting point is 00:07:14 And if I gave you the opportunity to show me that I'm wrong, then the resentment you assumed one would have once they showed their subjectivity as opposed to their objectivity, which is what I said I was lamenting earlier about those guys in those positions, all of a sudden that would evaporate because I'm being honest with you about where I stand and I'm leaving myself open to be incorrect. So you know what's funny when you say that because some people will say, I don't know if you've read Ted Turner's book, what is Ted Turner's book called? They call me Ted.

Starting point is 00:07:43 They call me Ted. By the way, if you haven't read it, highly recommend you read it. What is Ted Turner's book called? It's called Ted. They call me Ted. By the way, if you haven't read it, highly recommend you read it. It's an easy read and you'll actually be very interested in it because you'll see how this guy almost ran for office, who he wanted to marry. He ended up marrying sports teams he bought, what he did with the Atlanta Falcons and the Hawks and all this. It's just a lot of good stories, right?

Starting point is 00:08:02 No, no, no, no. Everybody was a Braves fan because of David Justice, Kenny Lofton. How do we know all these players? Because of this guy. And one thing that he talks about at the end of the book, he talks about how disappointed he was on what happened to CNN. And it was more where before, news was the star. Today the talent is the star.

Starting point is 00:08:24 Like we didn't hire you to, for you to be the star, just tell the news. Let the news be the star. Today, the talent is the star. Like, we didn't hire you to, for you to be the star, just tell the news. Let the news be the star. But today, it's more, the talent is becoming a star. So, you know, some will say, well, this is why I don't get, you know, I miss the Walter Cronkite days. I don't want to hear your opinion. Just tell me the news, right? Do you think it's a good thing that we're going this direction? Do you think it's just an evolution? There's nothing we can do about I think it's a good thing and I think it's a good thing So long as you're responsible enough to articulate your position Cogently and the back it up with facts if you're willing to do that and you're willing to put yourself on the line because you're Saying this is the Intel these are the facts. This is where I stand on it

Starting point is 00:09:01 I have no problem with it when you bring up Ted Turner to him, profound respect for him and what he's meant to this industry. However, it would be easy for him to take that position because if the news is the attraction as opposed to the personalities, then you don't have to pay. Because last time I checked, the news ain't charging you, the personalities are.

Starting point is 00:09:17 And so it amazes me how you have individuals who are filthy rich, who are wealthy, that say things like that when that's not the code They live by an order to build their court their fortunes whatever element interesting whatever whatever whatever nugget They have whatever whatever their qualities that they had they were able to manufacture it in a capitalistic society They were able to manufacture that into something greater for themselves, but then they create these industries They create these opportunities and people figure out different ways to capitalize off of it monetarily,

Starting point is 00:09:48 and all of a sudden you're lamenting the state of affairs because suddenly you got to pay stuff that you didn't have to pay before. So I look at it from that perspective, and I think that you have people that think, like Ted Turner articulated, in the book. And I would tell you right now, not to cast any aspersions on any network or whatever,

Starting point is 00:10:07 but when you look at CNN, one could easily argue that their problem has been you're trying to be neutral and you're trying to come across as above the fray per se. Once upon a time that worked when there was no Fox News, when there was no NMSNBC. But now you got competition. And when you have competition, there's an audience, and an audience gets to make a choice. And once again, what are we talking about? Going beyond CNN, something that I preach to people all the time that I believe has been one of the components that has contributed to my success.

Starting point is 00:10:42 I don't give a damn what I want compared to what the audience wants. I know there are things that I want, but the priority is them. If I'm asking them to watch me, I have to broach subject matters and talk about things that I believe they've conveyed to me that they wanna hear. If you're not about the audience, then you're about you.

Starting point is 00:11:03 And if you're about you and a paying audience can see that and they have options, chances are they're going to pick the option, not you. So, okay, so who do you watch the most? Like if you were to say, I like watching this guy for this, I like watching that guy for this, like CNN, MSNBC, Fox. I have a multitude of people I watch, not just one person. Yes, I'm friends with Chris Cuomo now. I didn't know him up until like a year ago, okay? But I watched him on TV. I think that he's a sensational mind. I think that he knows the business backwards and forwards and his willingness to articulate his positions I would say fearlessly, particularly when he was on CNN,

Starting point is 00:11:46 is something that I absolutely positively applaud. And then when he lost his job at CNN, I was pretty pissed off. I'm not going to lie to you. Because when I interviewed him for my podcast, I had said to him, I said, Chris, why didn't you just sit up there and say, look, I'm going to take I'm going to take a leave of absence. This is my brother, my big brother. He says he's innocent. There's a governor of New York, Andrew Comey says he's innocent of what they're accusing him of. I'm rolling with my brother.

Starting point is 00:12:11 I believe in him and I'll be back once the situation is settled. And he was like, you're assuming that I knew my job would be waiting for me. I said, okay, fine. Right. So we can debate that all day till the cows come home. But at the end of the day, there was his brother and I'm looking at the industry and I'm like you want to get rid of this man if

Starting point is 00:12:31 I was CNN and there's a bold statement But I've said it publicly before so I could deny it now I get on my knees and I beg that man to come back Beg him because let me tell you something right now when you pride yourself the way they are right now as Because let me tell you something right now, when you pride yourself the way they are right now as somewhat leaning towards the center, not being extreme left, not being extreme right, who does that better than Chris Cuomo?

Starting point is 00:12:52 That's how I feel. But then I turn around and I go over to the right. See, I'll watch Chris Cuomo at eight. And I'll turn around and I'll watch Sean Hannity at night. We are very friendly with each other, we're friends, we've known each other for over 20 years. A lot of people despise Sean. Some go as far as hate. And then there are others who think that he is not as real and as authentic as he comes across. I'm here to tell you, he believes what he says. I'm here to tell you, I do believe he's authentic. And I don't agree with at least half of what he

Starting point is 00:13:20 says. He knows I think he's nuts half the time. But this is what I marvel about at him. I have never in my life, you know, encountered anyone in this business more consistent than him. He doesn't stop, ever. On camera, off camera, he's on message. Hannity is who you're talking can it. Yeah, it's like I'm just looking at him I'm like, how do you do it? And that's not easy to do and that's not easy to do and he does I mean every day Every night he's on message. I'm telling you I speak to him on the phone quite often

Starting point is 00:13:59 Text messages. It doesn't matter who's around a cries around the live television audience on the phone He's the same he doesn't stop and I'm all for let that and so I look at guys like him I look at guys like Chris Cuomo. I looked at Bill O'Reilly. Why did I look at Bill O'Reilly? ladies and gentlemen winner nearly 20 years on Fox News number one, every week, every month, every year for nearly 20 years. When I'm talking about first take on ESPN, that's where I get it from when you hear me say I'm number one every week, every month, every year. I got that from watching Bill O'Reilly

Starting point is 00:14:48 because that's the respect that I have for him igniting and basically defining the space that we're now all living in. See, no matter what you feel, I don't know him personally, but I know his work. And at the end of the day, when people do good work, you gotta give props. You can't sit around and hate because you're just embarrassing yourself and you got your head in the wind, in the sand, you know, in the sky rather, when you are not acknowledging the things that people do on a very, very successful level.

Starting point is 00:15:21 Now, Stephen A, you've been in the space for a while. Yeah. And you know, you know, somebody will make a position, somebody will do something, and you may not comment on it, and some things you will comment on it, because you understand the professionalism and certain things beyond closed doors. But you know, the way Don Lemon handled the situation with Musk and what he did, from your perspective, he's not with somebody, he's independent today himself. And you know, him and Chris were, you know, back to back

Starting point is 00:15:52 and they did their show together for, not together, but they had a back to back show for many years. How do you think Don handled the situation with Elon Musk going, asking for 8 million, 5 million, a car, shares, you know, private jet, massage, all this stuff. How do you think, what was wrong with his ask towards Musk? Well, let me say this to you. We live in a capitalistic society. You are what the market says you are.

Starting point is 00:16:19 I'm certainly not going to knock him for asking. I mean, there's certain things that I wouldn't ask for. You know, give me, I'm the kind of person, I'm not going to you for all of those things. Just give me the money so I can get all of those things on my own. I don't need to ask you for it. I'm the type of person that, okay, I might want a massage,

Starting point is 00:16:35 and I might want a therapist, I might want this car, I might want this and that. Well, damn it, that adds up. Talk about an extra four or five million dollars. You know, than what I originally thought. So I'll ask about an extra four or five million dollars. You know, than what I originally thought. So I'll ask for the extra four to five million dollars because I think that it comes across as excessively extra

Starting point is 00:16:51 when you're asking for specific things as opposed to the money where you could go out and get it yourself. That's number one. Number two, when you saw the interview with Don Lemon, who I respect by the way, I respect him. I don't always agree with him, but I respect him. And I respect some of the positions he's taken,

Starting point is 00:17:09 not all over the years. I would tell you, I thought that he was the one who messed up the Elon Musk interview. I'm like, you can go and see it in all you want to. You can talk about it till the cows come on. That was on you. And it's this simple. So, I to come and

Starting point is 00:17:27 work for Patrick Bette David. And he's got this platform, Valuetainment. Okay. And I want to work on this platform and you hire me. And my first interview is you. I am not going to treat you like you're somebody that just showed up on my show like I had on CNN. I know who I'm sitting in front of and I understand you have an obligation to the audience, but you also have an obligation to be practical and understand business as it's conducted. There's a way to do things. It's not that you can't ask questions. It's not that you can't probe. It's not that you can't let them know what the people want to know. But the manner in which you do it, you don't treat somebody like they're just anybody.

Starting point is 00:18:16 Elon Musk purchased X for $44 billion last time I checked. I think that's the number. Okay? And I'm on his platform. Damn it, he ain't just anybody. And one of the things that I have a problem with when I look at things that are transpiring in this country, you can't in the same breath talk about capitalism, talk about how it's equal opportunity that we want, but everybody doesn't deserve the same.

Starting point is 00:18:45 It's about your level of production. Some people are high-end earners. Some people are high-level producers. And they're getting treated, they might earn more than somebody that just don't have that skill set. That's the world we're living in. And I think that you have a lot of people here

Starting point is 00:19:02 that want to act as if we're after a different culture. We want everything the same for everybody. You're lying. You are lying. I grew up in the streets of Hollis, Queens, New York City. My mother was on welfare for a little while and it killed her, killed her that she was sick to her stomach, that we had to get government cheese and bread and all of this and so on. And she got the hell off of it as soon as she possibly could.

Starting point is 00:19:27 And I know that when she sent me out there to work, she didn't send me out there to be like just anybody. She sent me out there to be the best that I can be. Why? So I can earn more for myself than the average typical person. And most people in a capitalistic society believe in that and so when you have folks walking around like everybody is supposed to be the same that's nonsense you're lying to the American public you're lying to yourself it's not true and the in the end people who produce more ultimately

Starting point is 00:19:59 end up more successful than those who don't and Jimmy Johnson a former coach of the Dallas Cowboys said it best I will be very consistent in my inconsistencies those who produce will be treated better than those who don't. And Jimmy Johnson, a former coach of the Dallas Cowboys, said it best, I will be very consistent in my inconsistencies. Those who produce will be treated better than those who don't. And I appreciated his candor. Whether you like it or don't, that's the reality. And I think that the sooner that we accept that the better off it is,

Starting point is 00:20:18 we just have too many people in this world, especially on Capitol Hill as well, that want to give this impression or want to literally go about the business of changing that and making things equal. The only thing that should be equal is opportunities. But what you receive from your level of production is on you. God bless your mom for raising a man like you. I know the tribute you did six years ago was a 2017 what year was that?

Starting point is 00:20:45 It was a 2017. I remember that was very heartfelt and we're having dinner the other night you and I were in I think Tom was with us and couple of the guys were with us. We're in LA. We're in Maestro's right? Right. And you had your Toyota Corolla parked outside. What? AKA it's a bull okay if you know the brand bull you know it's like Italian bull they made a great movie about wanted to go after Ferrari aka Lamborghini but anyways we're having dinner and I'm watching certain things you do when I'm out with you man you're like would you guys be okay if I break the bread and I grab the bread and you're like versus you're out there with Middle Easterns we're gonna be like all right bro here let me give you some of this. I'm eating off your plate.

Starting point is 00:21:32 And then the way he does everything the way you speak to you know I think to myself always mannerisms mom how she raised you. Was your mom a Republican or Democrat? My mother was a Republican, I'm sorry, she was a Democrat at the polls. She was a Republican at home. Oh, and that's one of the misnomers to be quite honest with you about a lot of folks. I certainly don't speak for all anybody, all black people or anybody. But when it comes to black folks, this is what I've known. Most of us have conservative values. And we might go to the polls and vote Democrat because

Starting point is 00:22:15 we're sensitive to our communities. We're sensitive to the plights of the desolate and the disenfranchised. We want wanna have a level of sensitivity to that. We certainly want folks to get equal opportunities. We're monitoring race, because as I told John McCain, who I interviewed years ago, God rest his soul, and I had to show quite frankly on ESPN too, John McCain was a guest of mine. So was Donald Trump, by the way.

Starting point is 00:22:42 But John McCain was a guest of mine. So was Donald Trump, by the way. But John McCain was a guest of mine and kept in touch with me. Up until the day that he died, because he told me that he appreciated the fact that I was reasonable. I wasn't somebody, I'm not a person that looks at you and thinks because you're white, you're racist, you're a Republican, you're racist.

Starting point is 00:23:03 No, I don't play that. It's like, I can look at things systemically, which is what I try to preach to white America all the time. When I'm talking about racism, I'm talking about systemic. I'm talking about a system that is designed to do things that assist in elevating one group while marginalizing the next. I don't look at individuals that way.

Starting point is 00:23:22 I never have. You as an individual in the system, just like I am, and you could be the most decent person in the world, and you're a white person, that does not mean that you're a bad person just because you're white. I don't get caught up in that nonsense, I don't allow people to do that with me. But I bring all of that up to say that in my home,

Starting point is 00:23:39 when you, my mother and father was like, this one rule of law, it's ours. It's not a democracy, we ain't negotiating. We're the boss. You do what the hell we tell you to do. And when you get old enough, you can go out on your own and do what you wanna do and live by your own rules, but until then, I mean, that's just the way it was.

Starting point is 00:24:01 When you talked about, you know, gay rights, they didn't mind that. But if you came and you talked about transgender and you talked about Well, you know what? I you know I believe that I'm a member of the opposite sex that I happen to be that happened that my body happens to be right now No, maybe it was a different time. You couldn't come couldn't come to my parents like that You know, you can come to my parents like you know what, I don't like the way you treat me. I'm gonna have you arrested. They'd be like, really?

Starting point is 00:24:27 Let me whip your ass now. You understand what I'm saying? And hell, by the way, let them come get you. You think foster care is gonna be better than this house? Good luck with that. This is not a democracy. You do what you're told. And so, you know, strong national security,

Starting point is 00:24:39 monitoring borders and stuff like that. My family, we're from the West Indies. My mother and father were born in the islands, St. Thomas and Antigua. You understand that? I mean, and so, so, like they're looking at stuff and you could see the issues that we have with immigration right now.

Starting point is 00:24:55 Oh, my mother and father be like, get your behind the back of the line. They're like, we had to, who do you think you are? You understand, I mean, that's how folks act. Law enforcement during the whole social justice movement and you saw riots in the streets and stuff like that, throwing up your heads to a police officer, my mother, my father would have looked at me and said,

Starting point is 00:25:16 I hope they whipped your ass. My mother would have been like, if they throw you in jail, I won't even come visit you. Respect. She's like, the law is the law you obey the law when I got a speeding ticket my mother how fast were you going she's sitting up there and say the cops are profiling me how fast were you going what did you do let's deal with you first it's real easy to point the finger

Starting point is 00:25:35 bling let's deal with you and that's what my mother taught me to be and so because of that I would tell you Democrat at the polls, but conservative at home. I don't say Republican. Conservative, my mom, yes. You think today, today, that's different than versus today. A lot of weird things have happened the last four decades. You think your mom today would vote conservative or you think she would vote conservative? Wouldn't think about voting Democrat today

Starting point is 00:26:05 Wouldn't think about them because she would believe that the left is You know being held hostage By the progressive left that the centrist That's in them that long but was believed to have existed from the 60s to the 90s, etc. has evaporated. And there is no way that my mom would have supported today's Democrat based on what she is seeing out there in the streets of America. She wouldn't do it. Now, that's not to say that only left leaning cities, you know, a mayor, a governor, etc., that it only

Starting point is 00:26:46 happens where Democrats are in charge, but the fact of the matter is that's how it looks more often than not. And she would see that particularly in New York City. The second my mother saw the National Guards in the subways of New York City, Democrats would be dead to her That's because my mother was really really big on law and order now So am I but in a different way what I mean by that is I'm in New York I'm in LA rather down the block from my skills

Starting point is 00:27:21 At one time last year they weren't letting in more than three or four people in the store at the time because folks get robbed Hmm. And so when you hear a Trump or somebody else talking about law and order I'm like you lucky as him you lucky it ain't me because if you're talking about interfering with business Okay, I'm not allowing that to happen. You better thank your heavenly stars It ain't me in office because I wouldn't play that We we we gonna hunker down We gonna clean up these streets because when you allow things to get in the way of business

Starting point is 00:27:54 Collectively, we all fall the opportunities that are available to you in this world come because business is thriving when business isn't thriving Everything will crumble. And I believe that, and most people I know believe it, it's just that some are more hesitant to acknowledge that than most. I don't have a problem with acknowledging it. I understand. Dr. John Ankerberg So let's stay on that. Very, very interesting. And how much in your mind, the Christian church came up with those wristbands WWJD, and what would Jesus do? Do you ever have a, you know, a, you know, what do you call it, an imaginary WWMD? Like, do you sit there and say, what would my mom do? Like, do you

Starting point is 00:28:38 process it that way? Oh, I tell you this. I'd say, what my mom think because there's a lot of things that she would not have done that I've done. When I got let go by ESPN in 2009, my mother was a person that put her head down, worked tirelessly, punched that clock, put in those hours, went home, got some rest, woke up again, punched that clock put in those hours went home got some rest woke up again Punch that clock it was committed to doing that

Starting point is 00:29:09 Me I was a person that and I am a person I believe in hard work I don't believe in being outworked I believe in putting my head down and being on my grind But I do believe that it earns me the right if I'm a productive person. If I'm productive, because that's the first order of business, you ain't got no reason saying nothing when you ain't productive. But when you're productive, you've earned certain privileges and I believe one of those privileges is to speak your mind. And so for me, whether it's Disney, whether it's anybody else that I've

Starting point is 00:29:41 worked for, you know, I've been very, very big throughout my career on making sure that I have the air of people who matter, the decision makers and what have you. So they always knew where I stood. Now when we go outside and we go out into the public, we warriors together. I'm not going to betray my teammates. But inside those walls, oh, you're gonna know where I stand. You're gonna know why I stand the way that I stand. And we're going to deal with it from that reality. And the reason that I've always been able to cultivate those relationships throughout my career is because I've always been big on not defining success for myself before I ask them what their definition of success is

Starting point is 00:30:23 for the company that I'm working for. I don't believe that when you go and work for somebody else, you get to sit back and say, I'm successful. Well, dude, they believe you're successful. Because if they don't believe you're successful, what does it matter? And that was one of the reasons that I ended up really, really falling flat on my face in 2009

Starting point is 00:30:43 when I lost my job. I saw people screaming my name at arenas in the streets everywhere I went they knew who Stephen a was and I saw me and myself in commercials and stuff like that And I'm like I'm the man I thought I made it and when it came time to negotiate I Had those emotions They had their data. And their data told them something different than what I thought I deserved.

Starting point is 00:31:09 And so when they ended up saying this is where it is, take it or leave it, and I left it, my career nearly collapsed because I put myself in a very, very dire situation because I wasn't aware of my value. I didn't study the business. I didn't have the data. I went into negotiations operating based on emotion as opposed to what they defined as

Starting point is 00:31:34 success, which was their data. It was the greatest lesson that I ever learned in my life. What it's done for me on a personal level, I can't say enough about. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say what I'm about to say. I think it truly made me a man. Because what happened is, is that at that moment when I was forced to look at myself, as I wrote in my book Straight Shooter, when my mother forced me to look at myself and to contemplate all the decisions that I had made and the detriment that I had done to myself. It primarily came from arrogance, yes, immaturity, yes, but all bred from me being ill informed

Starting point is 00:32:15 about my own business. I thought I was getting to define my value. And when I learned that that doesn't work, I've been about the business of studying the business well enough to understand what true value is, what it equates and quantifies into, and where you measure up in that stratosphere. And from that point forward, the reason I say it's made me a better man

Starting point is 00:32:39 is because it's allowed me to depersonalize practically everything, and to see things from the lens of a business and a business person. And as a result, when you talk to me, I know where you're coming from. So I'm not offended by whatever you bring to the table for me. I understand you're just conducting business. I embrace it that way.

Starting point is 00:33:02 I either agree or disagree, but I don't harbor the emotions. And because I'm not harboring the emotions, you don't have to worry about me overreacting or reacting in a very negative way or being a bit truculent or anything like that. I get it. I understand it. And it's made me a big boy. By the way, at that time when you were going through this, you were 41, 42 years old. Did you see Today Sports Center posted that video by Andre Drummond I did not see it today oh it was such a great video Drummond is sitting there he's coaching a bunch of young kids he's telling the story about the fact that he got a hundred million dollar contract and it was on Instagram Rob you just had it up just go to where you were

Starting point is 00:33:37 at you had it just a minute ago when you were on Instagram it reminded me of what you're saying but let me let me go back to where- What you wrote about was 41. Let me say this real quick, please. Age doesn't matter. It's what you're exposed to. I wasn't exposed to the lessons that I had to learn in 2009 until 2009. I didn't know. I really didn't know.

Starting point is 00:33:59 I had never been placed in a position where I had to negotiate, and I thought I was negotiating from a position of I had to negotiate and I thought I was negotiating from a position of strength and also remember I'm a newspaper guy. So you have an agent when you're in the newspaper industry, you go in there, you get an interview, they offer you a salary, you take it or leave it and you move on. It wasn't until later on in my career, I had a couple of, you know, I mean, I had one contract prior to that in 2003, then they paid me $225,000 for X number of appearances. And then a few years later, they came to me with my own show,

Starting point is 00:34:31 and that was a negotiation with Mark Shapiro, who's now the president of WME, who represents me. That's my guy. You know, you had that going on, and then that. But he was gone by then. So I didn't have his guidance. He had gone over. He had departed to take over Six Flags, okay, Dick Clark Productions, all of that stuff for Daniel Snyder, who owned

Starting point is 00:34:50 the former Washington Redskins that's now the Washington Commanders. So he was gone and that was my guy. I didn't have the guidance. I didn't know better. I just didn't know. By the way, good for him for, you know, later on getting there and that's the part of relationships as well, right? Later on when he is now representing you, working with you, he can do some of those things. No, I just saw Drummond said something that was very interesting.

Starting point is 00:35:11 I think you would enjoy watching it. Going back to your mom, when you're talking about on the conservative side, your recent positioning with Trump has been, has gotten a lot of people a little bit asking questions okay so hey you know the Democrats what you're doing you know trying to undermine everything this man's doing it's not working you know you're kind of going through our process and he kind of Biden all this stuff what do you think

Starting point is 00:35:41 you know the strategy that they're doing right now do you do you think they don't know that it's not working or do you think, you know, the strategy that they're doing right now, do you think they don't know that it's not working or do you think they're convinced it's going to end up working come November 5th, the day we vote? I think they're convinced it's going to work. And I think that they're leaning on the 2022 midterms to buffer their point. You had certain Democrats who were supporting Trump's surrogates, I'm sorry, they were supporting these folks and favoring Trump's surrogates during the 2022 midterms. And people were anticipating a red wave that never arrived. You see what I'm saying? And so that's what they're thinking about. The more we put Trump

Starting point is 00:36:22 out there, the more we put Trump out there the more we put Trump out there the more we buffer support and augment support for these folks who support him ultimately it will lead to our victory that's how they're thinking and I'm saying no not what I'm seeing I think that he has damn near cult following I'm not calling folks cults or anything like that I'm just talking I'm just speaking metaphorically about how these folks are in terms of their love, their devotion, their belief in him. And they're not going anywhere. And then you got Hispanics who are supporting him now, according to the polls. You've got more black folks who are supporting him now, according to the polls. And even though they're swearing that the overturning of Roe v. Wade,

Starting point is 00:37:06 along with some of the charges that have been executed against them, that that's going to turn off white women, well, we ain't seeing that evidence. And so I'm looking at it from that standpoint, and I'm like, well, wait a minute now, are y'all not paying attention? Because let me tell you something.

Starting point is 00:37:23 Shalomayne and God said it best when he said, Joe Biden is not inspiring at all. You almost get the impression that the Democrats who are pushing for Joe Biden to get four more years, because that's what they were chanting at the State of the Union, address four more years, four more years. The man's gonna be 82 in November,

Starting point is 00:37:42 and you chant for four more years, but you've got progressive leftists on this side chanting for four more years the man's gonna be 82 in November and you and you chant for four more years But you've got progressive left this on this side chanting for four more years I don't know if they know how embarrassing that is. Okay. Okay, but that's neither here nor there The point is is that when you're doing that? I'm looking at them and I'm saying to myself. Come on now. This is utterly ridiculous You think this is going to get it done, but I tell you what I'm starting to suspect. They don't know if Joe's gonna last four more years. And all they care about is that he gets through Election Day and the

Starting point is 00:38:18 inauguration. And then after that, who's the next line in line? It's Kamala Harris. And I think that's how folks are thinking. But my problem with it is, again, we're capitalist. We like competition. What happened to competing with him and winning? What's all the lawfare about? One charge after another, you got Letitia James and a New York attorney general in New York. You've got

Starting point is 00:38:46 the folks in Georgia with Fannie Willis and others. You've got, you know, Mar-a-Lago situation. You got a point. I mean, we're really, really, really going to have a trial about hush money to a former porn star. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing now. I'm like, are you kidding me? Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that anybody should be above the law at any time What I am saying is he's the president of the United States the former president of the United States You talked to us about Russian collusion. You talked to us about a Bevy of things over the years man still running and fork for four indictments 91 counts and the man gets more campaign dollars Climbing in the polls, okay?

Starting point is 00:39:27 And last time I checked, he still ain't been in cuffs, he still ain't been put behind bars, and he's the presumptive GOP nominee. You can't stop him. You cannot stop him. And so for me, I find myself ashamed of the Democratic Party for their lack of a competitive fervor you had since 2016 to come up with somebody else and you still can't do it that is pathetic it is pathetic and it is no excuse for whatsoever it is 2024 in eight

Starting point is 00:39:58 years you should have been able to find somebody that can compete with this man other than a soon-to-be 82 year old incumbent. Well let me ask you this though. Yes. Do you want Democrats to win? That's a tough question. That's the question. But it's totally fair bro. I'm not gonna bring up that question. It's totally fair. Um, I Have to confess what most folks who sit before guys like yourself don't It's hard to figure out like for example Supposedly, we've got a good economy Unemployment is relatively decent around 4%

Starting point is 00:40:47 You know black unemployment little under 6% about 5.6% if I remember correctly. But then you listen to the writing, it's like, what about inflation? And then you're driving in California and you're paying an arm and a leg for gas. You're going to the supermarket, you're buying some milk, you're buying some bread, whatever, because see, contrary to what folks believe, I actually do go to the supermarket.

Starting point is 00:41:04 You okay? I do buy my own stuff You know all of this other stuff. I'm like you're watching you seeing all of this stuff and it's like who's telling the truth Do we have a good economy or not? Is it really a crisis at the border or not? I believe it is. Yeah, do you you know is inflation a real thing? Is it imaginary? You're looking at all of these different things. You're talking about national security, the war in Ukraine.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Should we support them? Should we give them more money than we've already given them? You're looking at the, you know, Israeli, you know, Hamas conflict, I call it the Israeli Hamas conflict as opposed to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, you know, but I don't touch that because I don't know enough and that's not my lane, but I also find myself, okay, well, we've got folks here saying

Starting point is 00:41:46 Stop this stop this stop the bombing stop all of this and then you have other folks like hell with that My mouse has to be eliminated because look at what they've done October 7th and the kidnapping and 130 you're hearing all of this and You read the different publications. I'll read the Washington Post one minute. I'll read the New York Times the next I read Wall Street Journal the next I'm watching the channels Fox News MSNBC CNN. I'm going back and forth and literally we've Changed as a society We can take the same information and put a completely different twist on it to make it look like

Starting point is 00:42:23 Who's right is wrong? Somebody as knowledgeable as you guys have proven to be with no more than me at this moment in time. I'm studying more and more and more of it every day because I'm fixated on it just like I am with sports. But I'm saying, if you tell me what is definitively true, that's undeniable. I can tell you how I feel.

Starting point is 00:42:48 My problem is, is that I literally could be sitting in front of one person on the left with the same exact information that I'm sitting in front of somebody 15 minutes later with on the right. And they have two completely different versions. And I think that's why America is so lost because folks are confused. They don't have time when you're out there hustling and bustling and trying to take care of your family, pay mortgages, maintain or elevate your quality of life. You don't have time to study everything that needs to be studied.

Starting point is 00:43:20 You've got congressional and Senate figures telling you they signed bills they didn't even read. Literally. I've seen them on tape doing this and so when you have that going on Is really really difficult to say Oh, I know This but if you tell me these are the facts steven beyond the shadow of a doubt I don't give a damn what it is. I can tell you how I feel about it I can do that. Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that.

Starting point is 00:43:46 And thank you for being, you know, straight up with it. That's the one thing about you that why I relate and I like watching you, cause you're straight up. By watching you'll say, yeah, I'll see you're defending Magic Johnson one time. And like this guy's my friend. I'm like, okay, he's sometimes easier to magic

Starting point is 00:44:00 than he is to somebody else and all this stuff. But I love the fact that you're raw and you come out and give your feedback. Here's what it makes me think about. When asking about who you want to vote and who do I believe, do I go with the guy on the left or the guy on the right? You ever had a guy in the NBA or sports that we all criticized and the media went after him.

Starting point is 00:44:19 So everybody's like, what a freaking guy, you know, piece of this and da da da da da. Seven years later, dude, that guy was mistreated by everybody. What was that all about, right? And you're like, dude, no, no, no, I'm not with you, man. I'm over here. I'm on this guy's side. I don't like what you did. You know, the truth is this. So we can look at a couple things with, you know, 2024 in a few different ways. What we have now Stephen aid that I think is easy to do is two things You actually have four ones. We haven't had this you got two people we get to vote for that We got four years to choose from each

Starting point is 00:44:54 it's not a What if right? It's not a well if he ate do you want somebody like Hillary Clinton? Do you want a man like this to have access to the nuclear button? I don't know if I do well guess what you know he had it for four years Hillary Clinton, do you want a man like this to have access to the nuclear button? I don't know if I do. Well, guess what? You know he had it for four years. What happened?

Starting point is 00:45:10 And you know this guy had it for four years. What happened? So it's actually very easy systematically to sit there with data and say, they went after this guy. I was convinced he was tied to Russia. $35 million, Hillary Clinton, that was a lie. And everybody in mainstream media was behind it. Everybody, CNN, MSNBC. Guys, that's kind of shitty. And then you try to defame character. $35 million Hillary Clinton that was a lie and everybody in the mainstream media was behind it everybody CNN of SMBC

Starting point is 00:45:26 Guys, that's kind of shitty and then you try to defame character Then you went after the girls then EG and Carol 83 million dollars Anderson Cooper asks was he did he rape you well? I think rape is more of a fantasy What are you talking about? We got to go to break right answer the question 91 different counts Mar a logos only worth 18 million dollars this is not that good he thinks it's not and then also CNN shows this week well Mar-a-Lago if he was to do a fire sale he could sell it for 240 million dollars yeah what happened to the 18 million dollars listen all of these things are unfair unfair unfair and then this guy would go

Starting point is 00:45:59 sit with anybody in any interview to any platform to anybody CNN Fox CBS ABC 60 minutes it didn't matter this guy's a gamer will go anywhere right and he go on the other side no no no way what did you how many times that Obama go sit with Bill O'Reilly one time how many times did Hillary Clinton how many times how many times do they how many times has Biden been on Fox how many times how many times does Biden how many how many times have you interviewed Hillary Bill Clinton Obama or Joe Biden yourself? No, never.

Starting point is 00:46:28 How's that possible? You've interviewed McCain. So to me, when I watch some of this stuff, and you're on their side, like for the most part during that time. At that time. At that time. Not now. But then when you bring it today and you see what's going on and the confusing part for me is like I'm a

Starting point is 00:46:46 you know my mom's side all Democrats there were communists my dad said they were imperialist so there was a debate between the two words and rich people are greedy and poor people are lazy so I have to kind of figure it out on my own to see where the reality was today four years versus four years we got three Afghanistan screw-up. You know, Ukraine and Russia, looks like we're going to have to give these guys another Afghanistan of a couple trillion dollars of taxpayers' money that we keep sending money. Oh, great.

Starting point is 00:47:15 Israel, Hamas, okay, all right. Whether we know everything about the history or not, how come this didn't happen four years ago? How come there was nothing going on four years ago? So when you look at it that way, what is happening a lot that I talk to guys who are celebrities, influencers, Hollywood, TV, somebody that you watch, there's a couple different camps. There's the one camp that is like, look, man, I'm still going to vote left. There's the other camp that says, dude, I'm not going to tell you who I'm voting for, which is kind of like the

Starting point is 00:47:44 middle. Like if you had that one interview with Denzel you who I'm voting for, which is kind of like the middle. Like if you had that one interview with Denzel, who did you vote for? It's none of your business. I don't know if you remember that interview. Yeah, I know, I totally remember. I don't blame him for that either because Hollywood's different.

Starting point is 00:47:53 Exactly. Hollywood's different and they would hold him accountable in ways most others can't nor would. But here's the feeling I'm getting with you, bro. The feeling I'm getting with you, which is why I'm kind of like enamored with like the journey you're going through I'm just kind of following it right I think you got a fight and I think you know

Starting point is 00:48:14 moms left certain values of pride and dad and it's like hey dude you got a job to protect this country that gave you this life and I feel like there is something going on with you That's kind of like, you know, you want to talk but you know, it's kind of like am I really gonna say this? Can I really say that's not that it's not it's just that I want to be as sure as you are That's what I'm saying. I owe it to the audience I owe it to the people to make sure that if I'm gonna come out with fire and brimstone I know what the hell I'm talking about. And sometimes when it comes to these issues, I don't.

Starting point is 00:48:49 So I'm just being honest about it. What would happen if you came out and you said, let's just say in the month of October, Stephen A. came out. Okay. Let's be real here. Sure. You came out on your podcast, obviously not at the network you would put on your podcast. You said, guys, I'm going to say something right now.

Starting point is 00:49:03 You guys are going to be very upset at me. What would happen if you in the month of October said I'm voting for Trump? What would happen? I'd be called a sellout and a coon by my own community. That would be automatic. That's exactly what they would say. But what I would tell you is to know something about me, I wouldn't give a damn. I'm not scared.

Starting point is 00:49:19 I'll say what I feel. Let me tell you, let me address the point that you made earlier. My belief is I'm going to vote for Biden. Now, you have to remember it's how you're looking at the presidential election might be a little bit different than me. For example, I'm the kind of person that might vote for the president being a Democrat and every other position Republican, every Senate, every congressional figure, every local. In other words, because I viewed the presidency,

Starting point is 00:49:55 I understand it's the commander in chief. I get it, but I view, and listen, I will preface it by saying I'm open to correction. I truly am. I view the presidency as more of a statesmanship position. I would, if, if I interviewed Trump, I would look him in his face and tell him why I would never, I'm not calling you a racist. I'm not saying that all your policies were wrong. Hell, the economy was thriving before COVID. I remember, but you don't know how to act. You just, I said, you don't care what you say.

Starting point is 00:50:25 You don't care about how divisive you come across. You don't have any sensitivity whatsoever to how you scared to live in hell out of people with your rhetoric and with your, your aloof. I don't know if the word is aloofness or just a disregard for the importance of unity. I believe you believe in America. I believe in America. Let me tell you what I believe in about America. I believe that when we're together, nothing can stop us. Nothing. I don't care if it's a bad president.

Starting point is 00:50:57 I don't care if it's bad people on Capitol Hill. I don't care if corporate America is garbage. I don't care if wall streets messing up. We will overcome anything when we're together. And I remember how I felt this way. And this is the only time I'm 56 years old. And it's the only time in my life I ever felt this way. 9-11 happens. And that first plane goes into the first tower. And I'm laying in my bed, I'm in an apartment in South Jersey

Starting point is 00:51:27 at the time of where he's in New Jersey. I'm laying in my bed and I'm on the phone with one of my friends and I'm like, see, this damn probably, probably is probably drunk. You know, this is what I'm talking about, right? I mean, who the hell knows? Well, this is why I worry about flying. And that's why I literally was reacting that way.

Starting point is 00:51:43 And then the channel was on CNN. And I saw that second plane coming around. And I said, whoa, wait a minute. And we saw that plane come around, and it hit that second tower. And the first words out of my mouth that squeezed my language was, holy shit, We are under attack. And at that moment, it wasn't black. It wasn't white.

Starting point is 00:52:11 It wasn't Latino. The United States of America is under attack. You are after us. I didn't see anybody that was an American citizen and thought about, I didn't think about race, I didn't think about divisiveness, I didn't think about hostile, I didn't think about anything. We are under attack. I'm 56 years old, it's the only time I've ever felt like that in my life, in this country.

Starting point is 00:52:38 It's the only time. Isn't that sad though Stephen, that it has to take terrorists flying airplanes into buildings killing thousands of Americans ready for us to go, I don't care that you're black, I don't care. That is the saddest thing to hear. That's right. And then Steve, going back, if you don't mind, Patrick, I'm going to the fact that that Trump's divisiveness. Let me ask you, Stephen, you're going for president.

Starting point is 00:53:00 You're going to go run for president. As you come in, you don't even think you're going to win. You find out, Stephen, that the president before you was spying on you in your campaign think about this thing about this spying on your campaign Then the chick that you're running against paid all these millions to have this fake Russian thing so bother your anger's building. I'm getting there then the two impeachments then this 2020 FBI's at Twitter blocking all the stories from hunter and everything. How was your you Stephen A Smith? How was your attitude gonna be are you gonna be like this guy? My attitude is going to be Probably stink. Oh, I'm gonna be furious. I'm gonna be all of those things. Yes

Starting point is 00:53:37 but I also know what I signed up for and I signed up to be a president to all the people not to come across as somebody Who's only loyal to my constituency who put me in that office? Because you do have that with some politicians. They think about who got them there and I understand when you campaign Please don't get me wrong. I'm trying to get an offer trying to maintain power. I get that part Yeah, but what I'm saying is once you're there You got an obligation to be bigger than that. And when you find yourself, I remember I saw Cat Williams, the comedian joking about this

Starting point is 00:54:11 when he was doing a concert in Jacksonville and he was like, Trump is coming, you know, he ain't playing games. And who did he go out, Kathy Griffin. You know, he's talking about Kathy. I remember that. Say, Kathy Griffin. You know, and I'm like, you just find yourself, it's like, there comes a point in time where you elevate to a certain level in life where the pettiness has to go out the window because

Starting point is 00:54:32 you, you got to remember, it's not just about what you do. It's about what you're convincing the American citizen you're doing. You can't scare the living hell out of people because that causes chaos too. And what it does is it distracts us from the very good that you might be doing because we're caught up in all the noise you've created. And then listen, I firmly believe, and I've said this publicly, they say 81 million plus people voted for Joe Biden. I don't believe that for one second.

Starting point is 00:55:04 I believe 81 plus million people voted against Donald Trump. They didn't want him there. They couldn't take it anymore because he was so unsettling. And that's the difference. Big boy, big rules. A lot of people might feel differently. That's where I'm at with it.

Starting point is 00:55:20 Now, I respect that. And I think a part of why would 81 million people feel that way? Let's go through what is the easiest emotion to manipulate people with. What is the easiest emotion? It's very simple. Fear sharpens listening. If you can sell an entire congregation, you ever go to a pastor, he gets up and he says, if you don't get baptized today, you're going to hell. Here's what hell looks like. Oh my God, I'm getting baptized right now, right? So they sold Trump as the

Starting point is 00:55:56 second coming of the guy from Germany and many Americans who don't read, who don't follow politics, who live a simple life life who these guys are trying to pay their bills They're trying to watch a game on Sunday, you know, maybe having a barbecue you're trying to do basically they don't have time to go read all the stuff that's going on and They're like, you know what? I don't want to deal with any of this stuff The part that I give the left a lot of credit to is the following when kov COVID happened and everybody knew it came from China, U.S. could have done what they did during 9-11 and been united against China, but U.S.,

Starting point is 00:56:31 the Democrats became united against Trump and they did such a phenomenal job putting all the blame on him. Everything. And by the way, check this out. You said vaccine played a big role in your life, right? I think in 2022 or 2021 you said if it wasn't for vaccine I wouldn't been here and all this stuff. That's what the doctors told me. Fantastic. And so do you know when the vaccine was ready? Do you know when the vaccine was announced? It was while Trump was there.

Starting point is 00:56:58 No, it was two days after election. Yeah, weird. But guess who got it done? Trump got it done. But they announced it only two days after election. Yeah, weird. But guess who got it done? He did. Trump got it done. But they announced it only two days after election. Because imagine if they would announce a two days pre-election. Right. Fastest ever to get it for it. He would have gone. Imagine if you know, the New York Post story would have stayed 50 intelligence officers came out signing saying there's nothing in the laptop. And then later on, we found out there

Starting point is 00:57:21 was plenty of things on the laptop. But you're bringing up what you're talking about when you're talking about COVID, for example, that wasn't what was scaring a bunch of people. It was the riots in the streets. It was the mayhem. It was the fact that they went the left, as you pointed out, went about the business of demonizing, demonizing demonizing trump and to get to your point You have a responsibility to be big enough to see that coming And to be more adroit in your approach towards resolving issues and making sure you highlight who you are cnn

Starting point is 00:58:04 Was one of the ringleaders one would say when it came to their positions against Trump. Last time I checked, they weren't number one. That was Fox. Yeah, but that's not her. Fox, no, no, wait, to give you the example of basketball. Okay, so I don't know, how many points did Dominic Wilkins average in a season when he was killing it? 35 points against him, I think he had a 37 point season.

Starting point is 00:58:24 Ridiculous. What did they do? They lost. They lost. Average in a season when he was killing it 35 points again, so I think you got a 37 point season What do they do they lost they're on right and then when they didn't have a team when the Pistons won Who was averaging the most points on that? 19 points again Prince or was it who made Sean C. Billups 21 points But they didn't have the Rip Hamilton's post, but it was like a 1918 20 21 point game They didn't have a 32. They don't have a 28, they don't have a 20. The point is this, take a 21 CNN, take a 17 MSNBC, take a 16 CBS, take any of that, all of that beats 40 points a game, that's Fox News. So the collective effort of everybody combined, Fox is nothing compared to that.

Starting point is 00:59:03 Okay, you can say that, but here's what I can, here's what my retort would be you you have any idea the size of Mark Levin's audience you have any idea about the size of Sean Hannity's office? audience I mean I'm just saying you turn around and I understand we talk about the quote-unquote liberal society that we live in I can't tell you how many people in my business I know for a fact ain't liberal they talk that nonsense all they want to but when you see that how they conduct themselves when you see them in the office I know when you go to oh, they don't have those views. They don't have those views I think that Trump lost the election more than the conservatives did I think he

Starting point is 00:59:41 Look, he alienated people because of his- Maybe. I know, I know, first of all, I know a lot of Republicans, okay? And I know of Republicans who were flat out exhausted because he didn't know how to act. Listen, listen, you're a very successful businessman. And I'm saying to you, it's perfectly understandable

Starting point is 01:00:02 why you would feel different because again, the world that you live in, you have to know more than most. And because you know more than most, the actual substance of his policies, how it works for our society compared to the left and stuff like that, you'll choose that. It's perfectly understandable. But I'm saying to you, here's what you would know, and this is what you're not. This is what I think you need to give yourself credit for. You know, there's no way on earth you're this successful if you don't have an idea of what

Starting point is 01:00:30 your audience wants and what to give them. Trump knew it and did it in 2016. He played the game. Hillary should have gone to Wisconsin. She should have gone to Pennsylvania. She should have gone to a couple of places to campaign in the last few days. I don't want to hear about the FBI director ruining it for her. I'm quite sure it had something to do with it. But the point is

Starting point is 01:00:49 you got to go out there and campaign. Trump was everywhere. He was everywhere. He knew. And then in 2020, he thought, hey, I'm the man. Yeah, I'm gonna go out there and campaign and stuff like that. But I do what the hell I want to do because these damn people getting on my nerves. And it cost him Because he lost his way and he forgot about Governing the whole as opposed to just the people who guess what mr. Stephen a Smith. Yes, sir So remember when I said earlier I said at 41 42 years old. Yes, sir. You're going through that and what was your answer? I didn't know anybody because it was the first time ever you're going through that right age doesn't matter So to him, this is the first time he's been a president. He's delivered an incredible economy to the country

Starting point is 01:01:29 Why are they turning against me? I thought Tommy was present, but it wasn't first time he campaigned he campaigned in 2016 So winning in 2016 this is four years later I know but but but from the perspective wrote a couple things down here. So he in a Running an insurance company, you know, I've been being in it for 20 somesome years, you know what it taught me a lot? Taught me a lot about human nature. And you know, you're like, I've never ran a big company this size. Every year I didn't run a company that size. So every year I'm like, I've never run a company this size. I'm never run it. Shit, I'm dealing with all these different states, 49 states, a few hundred offices, 30,000 agents. I've never done, I'm

Starting point is 01:02:01 comfortable with 20 agents, 50 agents, 100 agents. So every time you go to a new place, like, it's a new place like that It's a new level right how do you handle okay? And I learned one thing very quickly The guys that were complaining and bitching and were the loudest Were able to convert more people into their way of thinking than the quiet guys that when I just got the job done Yeah, okay, so that. So if we have to choose between the left and the right which ones are more professional complainers, it's the left. Complainers. I don't think the right

Starting point is 01:02:35 has anybody that is as good as in complaining as AOC is. I don't think the right has anybody that's as good as complaining as you know Bernie Sanders is. Elizabeth Warren, professional. I can go on and on and on like all these rich people and this capitalist and all the local they say then should anybody be worth this kind of money you know but look at this guy you should Walmart Amazon you guys should be paying $15 an hour minimum wage how should these billionaires not pay 15 bucks an hour hey bro you Bernie Sanders you don't pay your employees 15 bucks an hour on oh well, you Bernie Sanders, you don't pay your employees 15 bucks an hour.

Starting point is 01:03:07 Oh well, you know, we're going to make that adjustment. Oh, so you're a hypocrite. You want, okay, I got you. No problem. You're a millionaire and billionaires and millionaires and billionaires. Then you become a millionaire. Now it's billionaires, right? So I'm sorry, you're a millionaire now.

Starting point is 01:03:20 So when you watch all of that and you're going through it himself, credit to the left for making him and painting him out to be the enemy that he became but by the way, I think things are so different today because You okay. Let's go back to you've talked about this before and I'll just kind of ask you I think it's good for the audience if you want to go through it 1960 I think it's good for the audience if you want to go through it. 1960, 64% of African Americans vote Democrat. The rest was conservative. Let's put liberal and conservative, that's a better way of saying it, right?

Starting point is 01:03:53 64 liberal, 36 conservative. 1964, four years later, 92% blacks are voting Democrat. Yeah. Then it'd be Johnson's civil rights legislation. So what happened there? Maybe give a little bit of the history of Goldwater, you know, Lyndon Johnson, what he did. JFK is assassinated.

Starting point is 01:04:14 Linda B. Johnson is in office. Republicans and Democrats, back in the day, Dixiecrats, bipartisanly bring a bill to the desk of Linda B. Johnson. He signed civil rights legislation in the law. According to whatever report you believe, Lyndon B. Johnson says, we bring this legislation, we sign this legislation in the law, we'll have the Negroes voting for us for the next 50 years. Sure enough, that's what it was. And I think me personally, as I've edified myself over the years to see what's been transpiring

Starting point is 01:04:57 in our community, on one hand, when I look at legislation and I think about affirmative action and other things and I see how I've benefited because opportunities were given to me at a particular moment in time in the 80s, for example, when you know that some would say may not have been given to me if I were not an African American or you didn't have affirmative action in the place and what have you. When you hear those things, you're trying to lean left because you're saying they're thinking about us, they're thinking about us, and like you said, those messengers from the Democratic Party are very profound. You've got Jimmy Carter in office, but the economy was so bad,

Starting point is 01:05:34 so Reagan had to get him out of there. But you got Reagan in office from 80 to 88, you're looking at what transpired in his administration, good or bad, depending on how you think about it, but if you're not educated, what are you thinking? Did he care about black people? You're actually asking those questions if you're coming from the black community

Starting point is 01:05:52 and you're not reading all the time, you're not educating yourself because you're literally trying to survive. And when that happens, ultimately it becomes habit. Your mama voted Democrat, your dad voted Democrat, your big sister, big brother voted Democrat. How could you think about voting any other way? And all of a sudden, those habits kick in

Starting point is 01:06:11 and then you get older and older and you start seeing how it profoundly affects your life as an individual and you're like, wait a minute. Like for example, for me, when we go back to 2016, 2020, yeah, Hillary was somebody that I would not have mind seen in office in 2020 I could tell you right now I would have voted for Kasich in 26 I would have voted for Kasich I would have voted for Chris Christie I would have voted definitely for those guys and there's a plethora I would have voted

Starting point is 01:06:40 for Nikki Haley if Nikki Haley was running right now instead of Donald Trump she would be getting my vote over the Democrats. I wouldn't hesitate. I wouldn't hesitate because No matter what you think about those folks. They show you they know how to be an adult in the room That's a far cry from where I was 15 20 years ago. It would have been Democrat all day every day I don't think like that now. I don't think like that now and I don't and honestly speaking I don't think anybody should I don't think it's right to have any party affiliation with today's politics because I don't think you can trust either side. I think you got to watch what they do, see what they do and see what policies work best

Starting point is 01:07:15 for you. And Mark Levin once said this to me, along with Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, he said, hey, man, most people vote their issues. They're not looking at, you can bring up immigration here. Whatever issue is most near and dear to them, that's what they focus on. So you got a black community right now that'll look at your body. You know what they'll say right now?

Starting point is 01:07:35 Well, you know, Barack Obama gave about $328, $330 million to HBCUs, historically black colleges and universities. Trump comes in need, gives about 360 eight years later. Barack Obama did that in 2010, Trump did that in 2018, about 360 million. But now look what Biden and Biden administration's done. They've dedicated over 7 billion. For some folks, that's enough. Not for me, not for others, but for some folks,

Starting point is 01:08:11 that's enough. And it's about finding that one issue because why? How did they learn? Then this is why I can't, I can fault the politicians just as much as I can fault the voter. Because folks got that way because the politicians got them that way because you go into the community you go into their respective communities and you give that song and dance and that lip service about that one issue they cared most about that's what you wanted that's what you train the voter to be like and in most instances now it's coming back to bite you may I want to I want to say because you said a lot and I want to I want to write it down and I want to go through each of these to the best of my ability so?

Starting point is 01:08:47 1964 Rob you pulled it up, and I'm glad you said it because I went and actually looked at Snopes go to snopes Because I wanted to know did he actually say that right because this is what we found I won't read it, but the audience can read it Can you go a little lower where it shows the whole thing okay? We can just show that at the top and we'll read the whole thing okay right, we can just show that at the top and then we'll read the whole thing. Okay, right here, you can do that right there. These, boom, that's right, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us.

Starting point is 01:09:13 They've got something now they've never had before, the political pull to back up their uppity-ness. Now we've got to do something about this and we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference and then boom, you know that line, you brought it up, I'll have him voting this way, Democratic for the next 200 years. You know what Snopes said? Snopes didn't say that's not right.

Starting point is 01:09:39 Go a little bit more, it says unproven and Snopes is one that would typically be quick to say they never said this. Then CNBC writes an article, if you can pull this one up, CNBC writes an article saying Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero, but also a racist. And if you look at the stuff about him, how many times he dropped a, you know, N-word and all this other stuff, this guy was not wanting to do what he did with civil rights. Credit goes to one man and the community that pushed it. There's a reason why we all have a poster or painting of him in our offices and our

Starting point is 01:10:11 walls and he's admired by everybody. It doesn't matter left, right, center, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, everybody loves and admires what this man did. One of the greatest movements of all time. He accomplished it in a peaceful way, different than X. He was able to get it done, right? Okay. At that time, you know, can you type in civil rights march? Just type in civil rights march if you don't mind doing that. Just type in civil rights march and go to images if you could do that. You know, when you type in civil rights march, click on that first picture. What do you see a lot of? Look at the way they're dressed. Just look at the way, go to the bottom left picture maybe that's got more people in suits. Bottom left. Look at the ties, look at the suits, look at the tuxedos,

Starting point is 01:10:54 look at the bow ties. Wow! Pure class on the way it's being dressed. So Lyndon Johnson, War on Poverty, 1964. Do you know at the time, him, can you look up when Planned Parenthood came out? Maybe you can look at, I don't know the exact year, when did Planned Parenthood come out? I think it was 71, 74. What year is it? Go a little bit single, whatever her name is, where he started the movement. Anyways, so you look at some of this data and you see that we went at the time when

Starting point is 01:11:21 kids are being born, only 4% of kids in America, if you can pull up the stat rod four percent of kids in America were born Okay, yeah in single family household 96% mom and dad Yeah, fast forward we went from 40 to 4 percent to 41 percent and by the way It's even higher for African Americans. This is America. This is not African Americans, percentage of children born out of wedlock, but African American is to the roof. That wasn't the case. You guys were always united, conservative. It's a good community, respectful, Bible bell. When I was in the army and my friends in the army, I was hanging out when I would go see their families, I was afraid of their mothers.

Starting point is 01:12:05 No, no, seriously, your mother would have talked to me like I'm her son and she would put me in my place. It was a different kind of a culture that was what I was accustomed to, right? So to me when they say systemic racism, if you want to give anybody credit, it's Lyndon Johnson and he succeeded in actually trying to create that kind of an environment and the reason why he was very creative on the way he did it is he blamed the other side for it and got them, the blacks to vote democratic for God knows how many decades until now where things are slightly changing.

Starting point is 01:12:40 And I'll wrap up the thoughts here and I want to get your... Can I respond to what you're saying? Of course, Yeah, absolutely I think that When you mention all of those things first of all you said nothing that I can dispute nothing Because that's just factually correct what you pointed out And I think that the important thing to bring up when we bring that stuff up is that is exactly the reason why black folks in America have historically over the last 50 plus years had that divide with the Republican Party.

Starting point is 01:13:18 Stay with me. What happened is, Patrick, you invite me onto this show and you talk to me We're having this conversation You show me facts. I Leave this office. I give you no resistance and then you turn on the TV and I'm like Patrick bed. Dave is full of it. Look what he brought up That's a racist BS blah blah blah blah blah. You'd never want to talk to me again.

Starting point is 01:13:47 It's disingenuous. It's not educated. It's not fair. One of the things that we have to pay attention to is that there is a Republican party that can't disguise its resentment towards black America

Starting point is 01:14:06 because of what you just pointed out it's just that we're looking at it differently as This black person when I got to know Republicans and I heard my parents speaking about conservatism and stuff like that. I remember asking my mother one day. I said You know that fact How would you feel stuff like that. I remember asking my mother one day, I said, you know that fact, how would you feel if you know that you contributed to bringing civil rights legislation to the desk of the presidency to sign in the law? And that was ignored because the party that he represented, he made sure they got all the credit for what you played a role in bringing to the table that helped the African-American community supposedly.

Starting point is 01:14:51 And it was completely ignored. You'd lose our respect because you'd believe you're not educated enough. You're not doing your putting forth your due diligence to know it wasn't just him, it was us. And his intent wasn't honorable. Ours was. I think that you have a lot of Republicans who are knowledgeable about that history that you just pointed out, and the distaste that they have had for African Americans for a period of time at the very least emanates from that, from folks not knowing what role they play. When I listen to a Sean Hannity or Mark Levin and Andrew Wilkow and others talk about black America's history and racism,

Starting point is 01:15:34 they never fail to point out the Democrats played a huge, huge role in this y'all, and the black community lets them off the hook. They look at us, and there's a level of absolute frustration, palpable frustration that comes from that. I don't always agree with it, but I understand it, which made it easy for me to communicate with members of the Republican party

Starting point is 01:16:00 when they come to me and they wanna talk about different issues. Cause I'm like, I wanna learn more. I wanna hear this because you're not gonna come to me and they want to talk about different issues because I'm like, I want to learn more. I want to hear this because you're not going to come to me and engage in demonization talking about the other side. In this case, the right, you're not doing that. What are your policies? What are you bringing to the table? Don't talk to me about them being racist because you know what else you're asking me to assume you're not. How do I know you're not? I know there were KKK members that were in,

Starting point is 01:16:30 members of the Democratic Party that were on Capitol Hill. Robert Byrd of West Virginia to name one of them. I know that for a fact. And so why are we to assume that just because you're a Democrat, you're on our side? So I do get where you're coming from, and I understand. Yeah, so to me, that part to me is, you check policies to see how it's benefited a community

Starting point is 01:16:52 and you say yes or no. You have no idea how much I, my favorite part of this podcast is when you said your mother, when she won on welfare, she was despised of it and she couldn't wait to get off of it. I can't tell you what that means to To me to salute and respect that and then let's go to a couple other things You said on who you would vote for and who you wouldn't vote for You said John Kasich. He was he was a centrist. I think he was an independent I don't think he was a Republican, but I like was interest. Yeah, I think he was he was a nice guy

Starting point is 01:17:19 I think John Kasich was a nice Republican governor. He was yeah. He was yeah. He was a nice guy. He was a Republican governor. He was. Yeah, he was. Ohio. Yeah, he was a nice guy. I think Christie, yeah, he's a fighter. I actually enjoy listening to Christie. I think he's a little bit, I'm aware, yeah, and I was a little bit like, you know, I think, you know, I have some friends that were, you know, part of Trump's camp. He fired him and then there's a bitterness and, you know, that's between them. I just watch it and say, you're not gonna win being a bitter candidate. It's just not gonna happen You're not gonna you're not gonna win that way and you know, maybe that was it. It wasn't it is what it is Nikki Haley, so, you know for me when I wasn't into politics And it was purely business guy, right? I don't have time for this stuff, man

Starting point is 01:18:00 I'm yeah, I'm just gonna go to business make my money. My dad's gonna retire 99. So that's a lot of people in this world Yeah, zero desire for politics, right? Yeah, and then the bigger I got I'm like Oh, you kind of got to study a little bit of politics on what's going on, right? Because of why why would I want to study politics? The taxes you pays politics. Yes, the policies in your community is politics homelessness is politics Yes, the war that happened that wasn't safe is politics all that stuff is okay I got to pay attention to it. So a Nikki Haley very eloquent incredible speaker Tough right strong good background, right, you know all of that. So now we're dealing with left

Starting point is 01:18:38 right and then you have The the Anti-establishment the anti-establishment and the establishment. Okay, the anti-establishment and the establishment. The anti-establishment is not Republican, like Kennedy's were anti-establishment. Reagan was semi-anti-establishment. Trump definitely anti-establishment. Lincoln was anti-establishment. These are anti-establishment guys

Starting point is 01:19:10 Establishment is the big families, you know, you see some of the guys that have been president multiple times. That's establishment When somebody's part of the establishment, they're part of the same party. Okay, it's no longer like a left or right Nikki Haley to me is part of the establishment. She's an establishment, right? She's gonna do what the establishment rights gonna do and in many of the states she got all the Democratic votes. They were willing to vote for her, you know, some of the big money guys that are in New York, establishment guys are willing to give them give her the money. Let me go back to what you said about Trump on how he handles himself and then we can, you know, have some final thoughts and we can transition to a different story. Sure.

Starting point is 01:19:40 I read this story, this book called by Donald T. Phillips, Lincoln on Leadership, and I don't know what chapter it is, 11 or 13, you know, it says, search until you find your grant. Okay, search until you find your grant. And he has all these guys that are his generals, does McClellan keeps wanted to train his people Very proper very nice, you know respectful everything, but he just are we going to war yet north? No, no, no We're just training. We're still preparing. Are we going to worry? No, no, we're just are we there? No, man

Starting point is 01:20:17 I'm firing this guy bring another guy and bring another guy and bring in this in this chapter called search until you find your grant If you do anything buy this book and just read that chapter Whatever the chapter search until you find your grant if you do anything by this book and just read that chapter Whatever the chapter search until you find your grant. It was written 31 years ago On tickles birthday, by the way, it's pretty cool. So anyways and then eventually He gets a hold of a guy named Ulysses s grant who's a drunk Who is getting into bar fights? who's a drunk, who is getting into bar fights, okay, who he can't get a hold of, who doesn't call Lincoln back.

Starting point is 01:20:49 And Lincoln is like, what the hell is the matter with this guy, right? So if we were to judge Grant on the basis of, well, he should be more proper, more eloquent, he should do this, he should do that, guess what? He called him back whatever the time was, 90 days later, hey, the war is done done we won. You're kidding me. No, it's over with. You won. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah, we just went. So you weren't spending all these months getting trained? No, no, everybody's ready. We just went to where we want. Are you serious? Yes. So then what happens is you sit there, it's like bringing it back to the world that you know sports the last dance. Yeah, where it's like one day I'm in my you know

Starting point is 01:21:30 Rod Dennis is going through one of his things Jordan's telling the story you know the story and all of a sudden we're like he's missing he's in Vegas And I go walk into a room. There's a bunch of naked and then you know She's telling us there's this I'm in there naked. I'm like Michaels in the place He's like what the hell is going on? We got you get your back, you know got been back to the game and he says I Just walk out and then all of a sudden middle of the night Who the hell is knocking on my door at midnight opens the door to Dennis He comes and he says hey Mike, you got a cigar. He says yeah, he said we said

Starting point is 01:22:09 We have the cigar Doesn't say anything doesn't say I'm sorry But from there on he was locked in because Pippen was playing her to get the country back What did Rodman do? He says I've never seen Dennis play the way he did right? What did Rodman do? He says I've never seen Dennis play the way he did, right? Sometimes the guys to go up against the enemies that are crazy enemies, they're not gonna be the types of people that you want them to be. I know you want them to be the types of person that we want. So for us to go up and be able to have an audacity to go to North Korea, to go sit down with G, to go sit down with

Starting point is 01:22:40 Putin, to go sit down with all these guys, to go up against the establishment, to go up against the people that are using the you know American government as a way to make their money how these guys came into politics before they were poor afterwards they end up being richer while this guy went into politics was rich after being president he lost half his wealth and all that so you're not going to find someone that's going to look that good I used to think an an insurance agent's gotta be somebody that's gonna look like, first of all, I don't look like an insurance agent.

Starting point is 01:23:08 If you would've seen me day one, I had orange highlights, because I would put peroxide in my head. And I would go to the beach, and people are like, why does this guy look like this, and I'm coming in with a tank top. Middle Eastern surfer. And then all of a sudden they're like,

Starting point is 01:23:19 but this fricking guy is gonna go find an agency and sell more policies than anybody else. That's what the market needed. So I can understand the point you're saying to be more presidential, but when you got a fighter, they're not going to look the way we want all the time. Well, that is a beautiful, eloquent soliloquy you just threw out there. Allow me to retort. You know, that was a different time.

Starting point is 01:23:45 And it wasn't as chaotic as these times are. You didn't have hundreds of millions of people with their own voice and their own outlets to say what they say and contribute to influencing lives the way that you do today. And when you have somebody that is desensitized to that, and they don't mind the chaos that's going on, I would say around them as opposed to beneath them. That's something to take into consideration. I'll sit here today and tell you right now, you give a lot of food for thought. And I think that anybody that was gung ho about, Oh, Biden, Biden, Biden over Trump listens to what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:24:33 I think they should, they should really, really think long and hard about every word that came out of your mouth. Cause I don't, I don't disagree. And I'm not dismissing your point. I'm just simply trying to attach a level of tangible significance to the fear factor that somebody in that position acting that way has. I don't know if Trump will govern the country or be on a vengeance tour. I don't know whether or not he'll create civil war in this country and not give two damns about it.

Starting point is 01:25:05 Because when you are that pissed off, as you said, because he has been such a target for so long, warranted or not, because of his petulance that is flagrant and clear and undeniable, you do have cause to pause for him being in that position. And if somebody get what you want, listen, John Lewis is an iconic figure, God rest his soul, to a lot of African Americans in this country. We saw a Trump that didn't even want to pay tribute or homage to him.

Starting point is 01:25:37 And Trump's words were, he didn't do nothing for me, he wasn't in the support of mine. You watch stuff like that, and then you imagine folks on Capitol Hill, real, real stuff trying to get done and the personal gets in the way because he didn't like what you said about him or what you did about him or whatever the case may be. When you have that emanating from your leadership, there's a level of disbelief that comes attached to that that you can't ignore because the Americans say, listen, I'm not

Starting point is 01:26:04 one of those guys that's a nationalist per se, but, listen, I wasn't, I'm not one of those guys that's a nationalist per se, but I had no problem with Trump, America first, America first, man, we got enough, we got, we got billions to throw at Ukraine, but you telling me you're going to give $53 million pre-paid credit cards in New York city. You know, I mean, black people could have used that. I wouldn't hear that. You know, when you look at Eric Adams and you look at Governor Hokel in New York I want to hear that I don't want to hear that so when I think about Trump in America first

Starting point is 01:26:31 I'm like, you know, he's the type person that been like wait a minute Ukraine what about this right here in our own country? I don't mind that I appreciate that but how it will be received a mind that. I appreciate that. But how it will be received, a lot of times depends on the individual who's disseminating that message. And if you're a guy that isn't big enough to be above the fray, because your responsibility is so much greater, then you're just a petulant individual in a position of power. And do we really, really want a kid in that seat? Now, we have to consider the alternative. Well, who's gonna be there if he's not?

Starting point is 01:27:10 And all of those things you pointed out are legit. Inflation, legit. War in Ukraine, legit. When you see some of the things that have been transpiring in our country, the borders and over 7.2 million illegal immigrants have stormed into this country. That's a problem.

Starting point is 01:27:31 I am an... Listen, I don't want anybody starving. I don't want anybody endangered. I wish we could take everybody. Make no mistake about it. But in the end, there are a plethora of other countries throughout this world. You can't invade their borders like that. You can't do it.

Starting point is 01:27:46 So Americans would rather be flattered and lied to and deceived, but be respectful that have a guy that's going to tell you, well, I think that's an extreme position. But let me give it to you. Did you watch the DeSantis-Noussa debate? Yes, I did. Okay. So on one end, if we rank the DeSantis' ability to debate versus Nusome. DeSantis.

Starting point is 01:28:10 The ability to debate. Not the ability to debate. I thought he was more successful substantively, but I thought that Nusome was outplayed. Ability to debate. Purely ability to debate. Fighter, yeah. Is it even close? Not even close.

Starting point is 01:28:21 They're not in the same league. Is that fair to say? I think it's 10 to 3. Is 9 to to 3, okay let's not put them in 10. No, I think that you gotta get, DeSantis did have a lot of strong moments, more than people will think. But no, I don't think you're getting where I'm coming from. For example, so in the sports world, there may be guys that know sports better than you, because they've been around for 30 years and you're 35 years old

Starting point is 01:28:46 They say not today. I'm saying you're 35 you're coming up, right? Sure, but they're 55, but you're a better debater Listen, there's a lot of strength in being a better debater than who's got the facts there, right? So there's a slightly new some has that right totally fair Here's a guy that got up all the data is against him everything homelessness How nasty San Francisco is how he cleaned it up for China, right? What's going on there with the number one? They are the number one highest in unemployment state in America is California number one, right? You go through all this stuff, but how does he speak? Oh

Starting point is 01:29:23 You go through all this stuff, but how does he speak? Presidential, smooth, everything, and you look at him and you say, man, this guy, can you imagine if he was in the White House, that's exactly how you handle all this stuff. So I think, again, why I listen to you versus I listen to some of the guys over the years, because you straight up give it, right? I'm like, damn, that was freaking tough, but the way he delivered it right okay good for you I think sometimes what we want and the results that's being given we have to ask ourselves do you value this more than actual results then if that's where you are you want somebody to say nice things to John, but get bad results and hurt you.

Starting point is 01:30:06 Well, then you're going to get exactly what you deserve. You deserve that. But if you sit there and say, okay, at least he's telling the truth, at least he's straight up, okay, cool. You know what? I don't like what he just said because I'm a fan of his, but I'm moving on. There's a part of that that I would look at when it comes on to this. And I would say to you, like I told you earlier, you got to take into consideration who else

Starting point is 01:30:24 is on Capitol Hill with him and what you got to go through to get things done. Sure. And when you have folks on when you have folks on Capitol, I love checks and balances, me personally. I don't want one party to have dominion. Anytime you if you tell me Congress has got the Democratic majority I want the Senate to have the Republican majority or vice versa. That's the way that I am. I love it it I love the checks and balances because it makes me feel comfortable That this country will be on the right track because I know you're one individual or one party just can't get away with everything Even when all the Democrats were in power when Obama first took office. I wasn't happy with that. I Wanted are you an Obama guy? I voted for him. I voted for him twice now like today in 2024

Starting point is 01:31:04 Would you are you like a fan of his? I respect the hell out of him. I love him as a person and how he represented himself as a statesman, him along with the great first lady that was Michelle Obama and their wonderful children. But some of the things that he was doing, I didn't entirely agree with, no doubt about that. And I remember when they talked about Biden and how he wouldn't support Biden running for the presidency in 2016. I think I recently read something about that. I think it was yesterday.

Starting point is 01:31:30 And it was talking about how Biden didn't really, he didn't really support Biden in 2016 and you know, Biden was against him sending those troops into Afghanistan. And so it was no surprise that once Biden became the president, you know, he pulled folks out of there. To me, I looked at something different. And I think that Obama bothered me just like everybody else with this. Everybody was of the mindset.

Starting point is 01:31:54 It was Hillary's turn. Damn that. Who are the people most interested in? Because when you said it was, the attitude was it was her turn What that said to me was well, we can manipulate the American people any way we want to we'll get them to support our choice You're not listening to what the people want and I'm always always against that final question till we transition I want to ask you about Scotty Scotty one we transition from here sure can

Starting point is 01:32:25 Trump do anything between now and November 5th to get your vote I Would say it's more about what Biden what Biden does because he could get worse In certain respects you understand. I don't rule out anything I would tell you that if you ask me today, as I've said repeatedly, Biden, Biden, Biden, but I have to tell you, when I see some of the things that are transpiring, I'm not happy about it. And if it were anyone, and I've said this publicly, if it, I'll tell listen, one day I'll see Trump because I, Trump and I knew each other a little bit before he ran for the presidency. And I never, the things that I've seen from him,

Starting point is 01:33:06 the things that have been said about him, I never heard nor saw it before. So a lot of what he does sometimes, I think he's just catering to his constituency as opposed to him being that way. But having said that I would tell him to his face, you know, I would vote in a heartbeat, any Republican candidate that was up there. Maybe not DeSantis, I don't like some of the things happening in Florida for obvious reasons, but outside of him, I would have voted for Christie, I would have voted for Haley. Hell, I might have thought

Starting point is 01:33:39 about Rama Swamy. I think he's crazy. I think he's crazy in his own way, but smart. You would have. Smart, smart, smart, smart, smart. But, but again, I'm just, I'm listen, I don't want, I want people to know, oh, I'm not one of those dudes. I'm not some leftist and I don't want, I wish the black community wasn't quote unquote leftist. And I've said this when I've given speeches across this country and when people have seen me and they would misquote me and stuff because I would be like we're not in a racist country and they were like what and I'd be like obvious obviously to some degree there was no race I said not racist country I said racism doesn't exist and then I pause and I say obviously I'm lying of course it exists, but damn it that ain't no excuse to

Starting point is 01:34:27 Use that as a crutch to hold you back What happens is is people would say Stephen they said? Racism doesn't exist and stop there and don't tell the audience what I said and misrepresent my position and the other thing that I would Say is I wished for one election Every African and American in this country voted Republican. Are you ready to make a dis election? Yes, I'm not ready to make a dis-election? You understand? I'm not ready to make a dis-election. But I'm telling you. So funny.

Starting point is 01:34:49 But not 2024. But Steve, are you, are you, are you, now are you only voting for, go, go, go, go. I said it for this one reason and one reason only. Flatter me. If you go to buy a house, you wanna see the house. If you go to buy a car, you want a test drive. Stop just transparently supporting one party.

Starting point is 01:35:09 Make them work for you. I think the one thing that's good for the Latino community in America is the whole immigration issue. Because any immigration issues that we've had in recent memory forces you to focus on their community. As a result, you're trying to figure out how to cater to their community

Starting point is 01:35:30 and do things that they would support so you could get their vote. We, as African Americans in this country, I think need to do a better job of that. Two questions. So can, sorry for, No, no, it's all no talking and Joe Biden do to you in 2024 what you claim Trump did to 81 million people

Starting point is 01:35:54 Yes, okay. That's all I want to know yes, and and the other thing I would tell you with which party can do more for me I think I Think about that. I'm like so what do I want that party to do for me you know sometimes what I want that party to do the more entitled when they do they're more they're destroying that community yeah think about that the more entitlement they give to a community they're more they're gonna own that vote for longer you almost want that person to get off anyways yeah Adam I'm gonna give you any questions here because I want to transition to a different topic

Starting point is 01:36:23 but go ahead if you want to say something here one thing for Stephen and I know your voices. It's amazing inflamed vocal cords, but we're gonna do this I think you and I are very similar because Everything you said about family and the way we voted right there with you 2016 zero percent chance. I was voting for Donald Trump zero 2020 less than zero I think most Americans were so done with Trump Trump derangement syndrome right I'm gonna use your words against you okay you said your definition of success that meeting you had in 2009. Yes sir.

Starting point is 01:37:06 You said you weren't fully a man yet. You said it was a data thing. You were using emotion. Yes sir. And they were using data. PBD pointed out the data. People will say, well, there's two wars in Ukraine PBD pointed out the data, you know people like people say well You know, there's two wars in Ukraine and as Israel is going on an inflation. Oh

Starting point is 01:37:30 How about the mean tweets you miss them mean tweets? Orange dude yet, right? You know what kind of okay with those mean tweets So it's policy versus personality believe me sitting next to PBD for four years Will drip will drip will drip will drip and for the first time in my life I'm planning on voting Republican and I'm totally understanding where you're at with Trump what's it gonna take for you to use the data and not the emotion well I don't believe I'm completely using the emotion if you remember what I said a

Starting point is 01:38:06 While ago to all of you is that I talked about The information What's accurate and what's not because you find yourself? Confused because here you are thinking. Okay, this is what the numbers show and this is what it says and then all of a sudden It doesn't say that. It talks about Biden, and it talks about unemployment, and it talks about the economy, and they say it's flourishing,

Starting point is 01:38:31 and you literally listen to the right, and they say our economy is in shambles. And oh, by the way, look at inflation, and it drives you nuts. I said to you that I wasn't sure about the data, what to definitively believe about it. And that also played a role in how I feel. So again, if I'm sitting up there and I'm looking at it and the data shows that exponentially

Starting point is 01:38:55 Donald Trump is better for America than Joe Biden, then damn it, I got to come back on the show and go like this. I didn't change my mind. But the data is- But that's not where I'm at. Okay, but the data you're talking economic data. Just look at the border You don't need any data for that Stephen a I don't look at the wars are going around the world I don't need any data for that. I don't just look at your I don't support Trump's rhetoric about the border. I do

Starting point is 01:39:22 Support his position about the border. But that's my point. Right, right, right, but I'm telling you again, I'm not gonna, I don't disagree with everything Donald Trump did. The economy was flourishing before COVID, that's a fact. The border is an issue, that is a fact. It is a fact that I think Pierce Morgan pointed this out

Starting point is 01:39:43 when he did an interview on a breakfast club, if I remember correctly, where he pointed out how Obama sent more illegal immigrants back than Trump did. He just didn't advertise it. So I get it, I understand where you're coming from, and I can't sit here in good conscience and act like, oh my goodness, because I hate the fact that he's classless and and or acts kind of not calling I'm not going to form a president class and talk about how

Starting point is 01:40:09 he conducts himself. So you're right. Sometimes he don't know how to act. He doesn't know how to act. I totally get that. That is something that I would have to consider. But I'm not there yet. But you are absolutely right.

Starting point is 01:40:21 It would be immature for me to say that you're getting close. I'm not going to even say that. But I'm saying I'm not saying I can't is this the closest You've ever been in your life to voting Republican ever Like I said, um You probably you know, I was pretty close to voting for for W For W Bush Against Al Gore. Oh, 2020.

Starting point is 01:40:46 That's right. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Starting point is 01:40:56 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, If the Republicans had anybody but Trump, it would be a foregone conclusion right now. I would go with that. So it's just a Trump thing? It's a Trump thing. Okay, got it. By the way, remember what he said? Again, I want to move on to the next task.

Starting point is 01:41:12 We got 15 minutes and then we got to go grub. He did say Biden, he said it 50 times. He said, Biden, I said, can Biden do to you what Trump did to 81 million people? He said, yes. That conversation stops right there. I mean, that answer has already been given. I want to go to a couple of things selfishly for me. Last dance. Yes, sir. Do you think, you know, this whole no bull tour, Scotty, Horace Grant, and you know, is it Wellington? I don't know who the other guys, I think it's one of the centers that they're going

Starting point is 01:41:48 around talking about what happened and how upset they were. And then Scotty comes out with the book and I don't know who he did his interview with and he said, how do you want to be remembered as, Scotty? And he says, I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time, right? I watched Scotty doing analysis on TV. He's actually really good giving his analysis. I actually enjoy watching his analysis when he gives, you had an interview with him one time when he says LeBron versus this, and he says, you said statistically LeBron, but

Starting point is 01:42:15 Michael's the greatest of all time. So how could you say that? Michael, at any point, could average triple double. And he says, no, no. He says he couldn't? No, because it's not in his demeanor. I'd say the same thing about Kobe, and he's kind of giving that conversation. What do you think happened to Scotty to all of a sudden come out thinking he's, you know,

Starting point is 01:42:32 I want to be remembered as the greatest of all time? What happened after Last Dance to Scotty? I think he wants the world to see him in a different light than he believes Michael Jordan has betrayed him as, particularly in the last dance. I would tell you, Scottie Pippen is not accepting enough culpability for how Scottie Pippen ultimately influenced people to look at him. It was you that signed the contract that Jerry Ronstorf advised you not to sign because he said,

Starting point is 01:43:06 you're not gonna be able to come back and renegotiate. I'm telling you this right now, don't do it. And Michael Jordan and others told him that he wouldn't listen. The same Scottie Pippen that is complaining about Jordan when Jordan was retired and was playing baseball, it was Scottie Pippen kicking the sneakers up in the airs for the cameras,

Starting point is 01:43:21 showing that he was wearing Jordan and asking them to come back. And when Scottie Pippen wanted his new contract, it was him that was vacillating back and forth, playing hard, not playing hard, playing, not playing and whatever because he was pouting over his contract, et cetera, et cetera. And so you harbor responsibility. It was you that refused to enter the game with Phil Jackson called Tony Kukoc's number. That wasn't Michael Jordan.

Starting point is 01:43:45 And so those things played a role in Scottie Pippen being viewed the way that he was viewed. But let's talk about how he's been viewed. He's a six time champion, one of the elite defensive players that ever played this game of basketball. And a person as Michael Jordan himself, who I know well, has said on countless occasions is the greatest

Starting point is 01:44:08 team, I would have never won a championship without Scottie Pippen. He's the greatest teammate I've ever had. And I owe my six titles to him. So for Scottie, it's about the money that you don't have compared to what Jordan has. And it's about the lack of recognition. But my response is you on the basketball court with and without Jordan for a decade plus, you had ample opportunity to be seen as superior to Michael Jordan. You know better. You know better. You were phenomenal. You. You were great your Hall of Famer You're an Olympic gold medalist. You're a member the original dreams all of that's true. You know good and damn Well, you were no Michael Jordan

Starting point is 01:44:54 Stop it. That's just how you feel because your frustration is coming out and you know, that's gonna go on the headlines But when you go that route anybody that that knows the game of basketball knows better. You think Michael and Barkley will ever unite and will see a long-form conversation between the two of them in the next five, 10 years? I don't think so. I think that they'll have conversations. I don't think they hate each other.

Starting point is 01:45:18 I know Barkley doesn't hate Michael Jordan because Barkley doesn't have that in him. I mean, Barkley's a really lovable guy. He's a really good guy, just very candid. Um, but in the case of Michael Jordan, you know, Michael Jordan, this is what I would tell you about Michael Jordan. It's a, it's a lie. It's a misnomer to think that you can't criticize him,

Starting point is 01:45:39 that you can't tell him where you stand. Just don't betray him. Don't be somebody that says something in his face, and then he's shocked by what you're saying when he sees you on television. Don't be somebody that says something to him and that says something else later. I've gotten calls.

Starting point is 01:46:02 I should be telling this. He'd probably be upset for me telling this, but I'll do it anyway. I've gotten calls over I should be telling this. He'd probably be upset for me telling this, but I'll do it anyway I've gotten calls over the years from Michael Jordan. I Know your ass didn't say what the hell I just heard you say blah blah blah Kobe used to give him to me all the time I mean Kobe was much worse than MJ But MJ is challenging me and I'm challenging him back if he's right I have to concede he's right which most of the time he is by the way There were times when I disagreed and I said so.

Starting point is 01:46:26 I ain't give a damn how he felt. And I said it on the air, he had no problem with it because I said it. And he wasn't surprised. He knew exactly where I stood and he knew I was going to say it on the air. Now, there's many, many conversations that we've had off the air that will never ever be repeated because I don't violate trust like that. But that's what it comes down to. And I think that Michael Jordan is one of those guys. You don't violate trust like that. But that's what it comes down to.

Starting point is 01:46:45 And I think that Michael Jordan is one of those guys, you know, Kobe was like that too. You can do a lot of things. Don't ever let them feel like they can attach the word betrayal to you. They don't come back from that. And when it comes to Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan feels betrayed.

Starting point is 01:47:03 When Scottie revealed in his book his feelings for Michael Jordan and how he didn't even give his condolences in person to Michael Jordan, I was on the phone with Michael Jordan that day talking about something else. And then we had heard about what Scottie Pippen had said. And Michael Jordan was under the impression that it was just busy, it was chaotic, and all of this other stuff,

Starting point is 01:47:32 and that's why he never thought anything of it. But all of these years later, when Scottie Pippen had alluded to his father passing away, his father being murdered, and how he didn't give his condolences on purpose Michael Jordan's words were I hope it's worth it Wow I hope it's worth it for him I have nothing and he literally said I have nothing else to say and I know Michael Jordan well enough to know what that means. Why do you think Michael doesn't do a lot of media?

Starting point is 01:48:06 I mean he did a lot of stuff with a moderate shot back in the days. That's his brother Yeah, that's his that's his brother and then I saw him do a couple things with the cigar guys He's done a couple things here and there, you know I think he did Letterman when he was coming out with the shoes in the 80s But why why doesn't he do it because this is just my opinion. I've never asked him that But I would tell you knowing him the way that I do he's incredibly guarded because he has to be and it's not just because he was such as I mean it was Michael Jackson and was Michael Jordan no question I mean they just on another they talk about

Starting point is 01:48:40 LeBron and his daughter they were talking about LeBron and his popularity all they once. They don't even understand what Michael Jordan had to go through, okay? And so you had that. That's a big reason. The other reason is the Jordan brand. It's similar to Hollywood in this regard. The wrong syllable can cost you at the box office. People misconstrue, you're subjecting yourself to the mercy of others interpretations of what you say, feel, etc. etc. And Michael Jordan is not somebody that ever, ever wants to give himself that headache. That's just not the way he is. But I can tell you he has a lot to say, because he certainly always has a lot to say to me. Oh there is and you know it's funny because when Last Dance came out we were glued to this. It was

Starting point is 01:49:31 always Sunday night two episodes. It was five weeks. It helped that COVID was going on right now. That's right. That's a good point on what came out. So he saved us because that's what it wasn't supposed to come out. If I remember correctly it wasn't supposed to come out if I remember correctly It wasn't supposed to come out until june But once covid halted the nba season Uh, he granted permission for it to be moved up so content could be provided while the games were not going You made the entire company watch All 10 I rented out the breaker's hotel. I flew all my executives in we watched the whole thing in two days together and we, and we went through every single issue on every episode.

Starting point is 01:50:12 We took breaks and talked about it for two straight days. I did an ABC special on it. After Ed on ESPN, ESPN had me go on ABC and do a last dance special, hosting the show because of it. That's how big it was. It was sick. It was sick. It was fantastic.

Starting point is 01:50:26 By the way, between three names, which one do you think will rekindle a relationship with Michael? Okay, Scotty, Barkley, Isaiah. Barkley. That's easy. Because it's love. That's easy. You know, one of my favorite names between the two of them is when Barkley and him are

Starting point is 01:50:41 on Oprah Winfrey and he's wearing that blue jumpsuit. If you can pull up, type in Barkley, are on Oprah Winfrey and he's wearing that blue jumpsuit if he can pull up Typing Barkley Jordan and Oprah Winfrey, you know, you have to see cuz what he was wearing I mean, I think I'm getting it right just go to images right there. That's the one right? Yeah, kind candy. Yeah, and just look at the way Michaels dress Michael was uh, he was a guy that he was you know, he's very he's very honest and very forthcoming he doesn't give a damn and You know when I watched the last dance when you know, you try to watch things and peel things for your own

Starting point is 01:51:13 fulfillment your own, you know life and what have you and um When Michael Jordan was being interviewed at the last dance before he was getting teary and said break right before that moment He was like I understand you might interpret this he said but that's cuz you a you know, you've never won anything And he was talking about, he wasn't just talking about his teammates, he was talking about the world. The world. People who don't win and aren't committed to winning. At that level. Don't understand what it is.

Starting point is 01:51:46 And so think about you and you running your business. I now own, you know, I got my own production company. I got my podcast and stuff like that. I'm quite sure there are days, you know, me being a boss for the first time, really. I mean, I'm the executive producer of First Take, but I'm not the boss. With Stephen A. Smith's show and Mr. S.A.S. Productions,

Starting point is 01:52:03 I'm the boss. And you see that there and you see people and some days they ain't happy with you. And you're looking at them and you're like, they don't realize how unhappy I am with them on that particular day. And the reason why is because when it's yours, there's an ownership that comes with it internally, subliminally, not just literally. And your commitment to winning matters. And you want to look around and you just want to see it. One of my great moments is a few years ago, the Steelers, they started off like 0-4. And Mike Tomlin, they are losing this fourth game and it was really bad and

Starting point is 01:52:49 I've never felt as much as I love Mike Tomlin much as I love Mike Tomlin I never loved him more than I love this moment because what he did personify what we were alluding to about Jordan What I just brought up etc Mike Tomlin people were coming off the field in the fourth quarter and Mike Tomlin was like He literally would step in front of each player as they were walking off the field to look into their eyes. He didn't say a word to them. He was just looking at them. He wanted to see who was here, who's still in it,

Starting point is 01:53:16 who's still ready to fight, because he knew how easy it would be to quit. And to me, that's how I look at stuff. When I'm at ESPN and stuff like that, I didn't ask to be the executive producer. You know, they made me the executive producer for a reason because I'm looking at them, I'll leave you alone. But when I see our ratings, when I look at a show

Starting point is 01:53:37 and it's not up to my standard, I'm like, what the hell was that? What happened? And all of a sudden we we gonna have a phone call, we gonna have a meeting, and suddenly I'm gonna make people uncomfortable, and I'm not gonna give a damn about it because I'm trying to win.

Starting point is 01:53:53 So if you're a boss and you have somebody that's a subordinate, what do you wanna see? You wanna see not somebody that mirrors you in terms of your personality or whatever, but you want to see somebody that you can look at and you know is as committed as you are to winning. And that's what I believe in. He's a stud. Thomas is a stud. To follow up on this, you said Barclay and there's Isaiah.

Starting point is 01:54:21 No way. And then Pippen. Yeah. Huge Isaiah guy. You know this. That was my guy. Yes. Who would be second and third on that list? I would say I would say Isaiah But if it were before the last dance easily Pippen. Yeah

Starting point is 01:54:41 But what's not that's interesting before the last dance before Pippen's book Yeah, but what's not that's interesting before the last dance before Pippen's book If it were before Pippen's book, I would say it would be Pippen and then Isaiah But since the book because of what I told you about Pippen, but let me tell you this about Isaiah Who's a friend Isaiah? I was a high school reporter. Isaiah gave me my first interview with a professional athlete He was playing for the Detroit Pistons I showed up at the Garden as a high school reporter for the New York Daily News And Isaiah Thomas had a game that January and He saw this kid, you know, this is not nose kid from Hollis Queens there

Starting point is 01:55:12 And you know, I'm the only reporter there that wasn't covering the NBA I was a high school reporter and he stopped the interview and walked over to me like what you need And gave me my first interview with a professional athlete. What year is this? This is 1993. So this is like peak, this is like the run up. They won two championships, he was top of the world.

Starting point is 01:55:35 So he's about to retire soon, but Isaiah, I love Isaiah, I've known him for all of those years. He's been an incredible supporter of mine, big brother a lot of ways. I love him. But I remember I had to get on him because he was so furious at Jordan saying what he said about him in the last dance called him an asshole. And I said to him, so why do you care? I said, Jordan is a bull. You were a a piston the Jordan rules and the things that y'all did To Jordan to make his life so hard prior to winning that championship

Starting point is 01:56:17 He'll never get over it now Jordan tells me personally Isaiah Thomas is the second greatest point guard of all time behind Irvin Badger Johnson He respects the hell out of them, but They're not fond of each other and Isaiah, you know is a is a caring person you can kill slice you up now He's from the streets of Chicago make no mistake. I'll kill you with a smile, but he's a caring person Yeah, and he really really cared at the time that Jordan said that about him and I'm like Why? He does not like you

Starting point is 01:56:51 Don't like him and keep it at that cuz Jordan when he realized how Isaiah felt he's like look man Bill Lambert knows I think he was one so he don't care Neither do the rest of them what he cares so much for stop but he got left off the dream team that's why well yes but Jordan doesn't take the blame for that whether he does or doesn't yes Isaiah should have been on that dream team without question 100% question thank you by the way bro you don't walk off without shaking hands and the guy was the one that walked off the year before shaking your hand that's that's okay and then and then you think a

Starting point is 01:57:27 driver like Michael's gonna forget that I don't think he's last question in the pisons made Jordan who he is that can that's the I don't think anybody would argue that they toughen them up that he went to the gym during that season but last thing Zion Williamson you think anything's gonna happen with them you think he's gonna be like a superstar you think he's gonna keep getting in his own way he gets in his own way because he literally had a food issue but from what I'm being told he's lost about 25 to 30 so that he looks stealth and we're seeing the benefits of what are you seven points to you so well he could do that anytime he wants to

Starting point is 01:58:00 he's a man child but the thing about him is that, like it is for most of us, are you going to be addicted enough to success to allow that to be the emotion or the carrot that usurps all your other proclivities? Are you going to be that committed? Because if he's committed New Orleans can win it all I Don't disagree if he's not They won't even get to the conference finals very interesting team. It's a very interesting

Starting point is 01:58:35 It really is it really is what happens if they win say they win. What about I mean? What is the market gonna react? What's the market gonna do? It's gonna be like you got to go through Denver now You got to go through these guys now. I think it's similar to Denver like let's call it what it is I mean parity is important It's good But winning in the big city matters winning in New York matters winning in LA matters winning in Chicago matters and and New Orleans In terms of being one of the big cities is not as not as considered a smaller market obviously. And so again, Denver's the champions. We see them on TV.

Starting point is 01:59:08 We know how great your kitchen is. We know how great Jamal Murray can be. But do you talk about them the way you talk about LA? I'm not a fan of the beach in Denver. It's just never, they never did anything to me. There we go. Totally. It's never done anything to me.

Starting point is 01:59:22 How about your Knicks? What's the over under and when they win a championship? I don't know but I tell you this New York Knicks had they not suffered their injuries this year I thought they would be in the conference finals. I thought they would be the team that Boston would have. Oninomi you mean after they traded after OJ Barrett? After OG Oninomi Yeah, with Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randolph. He doesn't get hurt I believe this Knicks team the way they were defending and playing I think the Knicks go to the conference finals against Boston But because of those injuries and how the rail they've been because of it even though they're still in the fight at top four seed I think that Julius Randall. I don't know if he'll ever be healthy

Starting point is 01:59:55 I think that that's something we've got to take into consideration and that's what you do. You think they'd be Milwaukee? To get to the conference finals I'm just get to the conference Milwaukee team if the New York Knicks had all their horses totally healthy this Milwaukee defensively That's what's on with these guys by the way. They gave up true His drew holiday was such a good Holiday right what about Grayson Allen do you realize that Phoenix Grayson Allen is the number one three-point shooting in the NBA? This brother is doing some big things. Oh shit.

Starting point is 02:00:26 That's right. They give him the number, both of them are gone. That's a dookie right there. Both of them are gone. Wow. Both of them are gone. And by the way, he's an annoying opponent. That's right.

Starting point is 02:00:34 He's an annoying opponent. He's one of those guys that gets under your skin. Like you remember that De La Vedeva, what was the guy? De La Vedeva. He works here. He would eat deli. No, no, but De La Vedeva was a very annoying opponent, right? He would get on your skin.

Starting point is 02:00:47 Was he with the Cleveland kids? Cleveland, LeBron. He was with LeBron when they lost the first time to Steph Curry and those boys and JR Smith went on social media and said that Delavadova had to be hospitalized. You know, they had to give him oxygen just because he was chasing Steph Curry. Love that, love that. That's who Deli is named after here. I love it. oxygen just because he was chasing Steph Curry. Love that. Love that. That's who Deli is named after here.

Starting point is 02:01:06 I love it. Gang, this was Stephen A. Appreciate you for coming out. Rob, can we put the link to his book up, please, so everybody can see it as well with the video? Just go to the Amazon and put his link so people can see it. Straight Shooter on Amazon, New York Times bestseller, ordered a book at the same time, his channel, his YouTube channel and podcast, Stephen A. Smith show. Brother enjoyed it as usual. I enjoy our conversation on air or off air.

Starting point is 02:01:37 Probably off air more than on air. But this was a very good one. Take care everybody. Bye bye, bye bye.

PBD Podcast - Stephen A. Smith | PBD Podcast | Ep. 385

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