PBD Podcast - The Economic Hitman: John Perkins | PBD Podcast | EP 125 |

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Adam Sosnick and author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", John Perkins. They discuss Ukraine & Russia, Hillary Clinton paying to spy on President Trump, How Jon Perkins became an economic hitman, and much more. TOPICS How Jon Perkins became an economic hitman Who John Perkins worked for Why did countries agree to sit down with John Perkins? The Top 3 countries for tourism in the 70's John Perkins recalls the time he was poisoned and almost killed 2 ways to conquer a nation The national debt is insurmountable Ukraine & Russia Hillary Clinton Paid To Spy On President Trump John Perkins is an American author. His best-known book is Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, in which Perkins claims to have played a role in an alleged process of economic colonization of Third World countries on behalf of what he portrays as a cabal of corporations, banks, and the United States government. Connect with him here: https://bit.ly/34LgKGt Purchase John Perkin's book's here: Confessions of An Economic Hitman: https://amzn.to/34HQwEu Touching The Jaguar: Transforming Fear into Action to Change Your Life and the World: https://amzn.to/3HVTBzQ Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list Connect with Patrick on social media: https://linktr.ee/patrickbetdavid About the host: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media, the #1 YouTube channel for entrepreneurship with more than 3 million subscribers. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Follow the guests in this episode: John Perkins: https://bit.ly/34LgKGt Adam Sosnick: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: [e-mail]   Check out PBD's official website here: https://bit.ly/32tvEjH --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

I Feel guy Am I right folks episode number 125 with the one and only John Perkins economic hit man John what was the last time we interviewed was a year ago? You're in a half a gun. We set down I think it was before you had another baby. It was before I had another baby. Yes Before Brooklyn and I think it was it seems to me it meant it'd been in August of 2020. It was prior to the election right because we're talking about it. He said there's no way Trump's gonna win.

He was right. He was right. Yeah, he said there's no way Trump's gonna win. He was. He was, but you know, it's so weird. The timing of when you're here today because this was not planned. Like, there is no conspiracy going on today. It happens to be that Mr. John Perkins, the economic hitman,

is sitting here right after the Durham investigations came out. Which I'm sure you haven't read or followed or you don't know what's going on there. Which is great, which we'll talk about because you have no idea. If you watch mainstream media, you because you have no idea if you watch mainstream media Because everybody I bet they had a conference call and they said the key word to use in your title is Allegedly allegedly everybody was about allegedly, but we'll get into that for some people that don't know what your background is Let me just read the Wikipedia so people know what the Wikipedia says. John Perkins is an American author. He's best known for his book Confessions of an Economic Hitman 2004, which was a big hit.

In which Perkins claims he had played a role in an alleged process of economic colonization of Third World countries on behalf of what he portrays as a cabal of corporations banks in the United States of America, the books claims were met with skepticism and rebuttal by some, but he spent more than 70 weeks on New York Times bestseller lists has been published in at least 32 different languages and is used in many colleges in university programs. That's a pretty good intro right there right with Capiti because typically they talk shit, but they're being nice to you. Yeah, except they're saying these things are alleged. Allegedly so.

Allegedly so. And they get the numbers all wrong. It's way more than 32 languages now. Is it in Farsi? Is it at least in Farsi? I'm pretty sure it is. It has to be in Farsi, because you got some, you got choice words about the show over there.

So for folks who don't know, for folks who have no idea what it is, I mean, I've interviewed Hitman before, like legit Hitman, okay, who their job is to, they come, they kill you, that's their job. That's what we call the jackals. That's okay, you call them the jackals, okay. But you know, I was, you know, Adam is always looking for great jobs. And this morning he went on, what was it?

What was was jobs? That's the monster. All these things he was looking at, how he can apply to be an economic hitman. He can find a single job. I looked everywhere. He looked everywhere. How does one become an economic hitman?

Well, I guess the first question would be, why would you want to? Because I don't recommend it. For me, how it happened was that when I was graduating, just about to graduate from business school, I was going to be drafted. And I really didn't want to go to Vietnam. I didn't really want to kill Vietnamese people

or be killed by them. So I was looking for a way out. And I was married at the time to a woman whose father was very high up in the Department of the Navy. And his best friend was very high up in the National Security Agency, which was draft-deferrable, and it ranged for an interview. So I go in for this interview, spent a couple of days

on a lie detector. And I was sure I failed. For one thing, when I had been in Middlebury College, there was an incident with an Iranian. If you can believe that. Careful with those guys. Well, truthfully, this guy carried a knife. I mean, a little tiny jackknife, but he'd show me how he put his thumb way up the blade so that it's just a little bit of a touch. And he'd already show me this. He'd been a professional soccer player at the club of Rome in Italy. Then he'd gone to Middle

Bar college. I was in a bar together. What year is this? 64. Anyway, long story short, a big heavy farmer, sucker punched me, knocked me across the room. And for hard, my friend from Iran comes up and slashes him across the cheek. Lots of blood comes out. He's got this little tiny, it's just a pin prick, really.

But it looks bad. It feels bad. And the farmer's screaming his head off. And for hard, pushes me into the men's room and out the window into auto creek, this river that runs by. We make our way back to the dorm at Middlebury. And the next, and I was pretty drunk. The next morning, there's knock on the door

and there's the cops. So they pull me into the police station. And as I'm sitting there waiting to be interviewed, another one's escorting forhard out. They doesn't let me talk to him. They put, take me in and they start questioning me. Did you see forhard with the knife? and I lied. I just lied and lied and I, I feared for hard more than I feared the police. I too fear Iranian. I always been told don't sit too close to them.

You know, I said this is good. I'm worried about him. I mean, I get this between my left hand right now. Anyway, so now I'm taking this NSA light detector test. And they ask me, if you have interviewed I had to run it with the police. And I had to tell them, yeah, I lied to the police. I think, well, this is going to screw me. And then they ask me how I feel about Vietnam. I say, well, I don't intend to go.

So I figured I feel measurably. I say, well, I don't intend to go. So I figured I feel, miserably, but no, they hired me. And you know, they offered me a job. And you know that the truth of the matter is, they were very happy that I had to get to the light of the police. Plus, for Hard's father was a general in the Shah's military and worked for the CIA. So here I was friends with a guy whose father was in the CIA in Iran. That was good material. And they knew that we'd already lost the war, and yet not. Basically, it wasn't public knowledge, really.

It was a lot of controversy. But the NSA knew it, so they didn't care that anymore. They were pretty smart of me, not to want to go there. So it was really funny. So I get offered this job. And then I ended up going in the Peace Corps for three years because they encouraged that to learn other language, to learn survival techniques, et cetera, et cetera.

And afterwards I came out and was hired. And they told me, when you end up working for us, you may not actually work for us. You may work for a private corporation, but they have connections with us, which was true. So I became an economist, chief economist at this consulting firm that had very, very close ties to the United States. So what do we call it?

Intelligence community information gathering. Spy agencies. Did you know at that time? Like, are you aware what's going on? No, not really. I mean, you know, it's so easy to convince yourself that you're not aware even though I had suspicions. But I came from a poor, pretty poor teachers family

in New Hampshire. I grew up in a boys boarding school surrounded by rich kids. And my dad was a teacher. And he didn't make any money. The school gave us a house and food. We had a decent life, didn't want for anything. But I was surrounded by kids who came from Tehran and Paris

and Buenos Aires and Park Avenue in New York and I heard all these stories. I was stuck in this little town in New Hampshire always. And so... Did these kids bully you or do you have good friendships with them? I had good friendships. I've always been a good con artist. That's what you takes to be an economic hitman, you know. But I was captain of two sports teams and so on. Oh, shit. But I always had this inkling to go to Tehran, to go to Paris, to go to these places. And suddenly now as I get into this business, I'm flying first class around the world.

I'm meeting with presidents. I'm doing all the things that I dreamed of doing. So I really didn't want to know the truth, even though the more and more I began to suspect it. But the line that I was sold, Patrick, was that what you're doing is a really good thing. Because what I was paid to do was to convince countries that had resources, our corporations, covered like oil to take huge loans from the World Bank or one of the system organizations and hire our companies to build big infrastructure

projects like power plants and roads and airports in these countries, which would make our companies would get big profits. The rich families in the country would prosper because they owned the industry. They owned banks. They owned the things that benefited from improved infrastructure. But the majority of the people would suffer because money was diverted from education, healthcare and other social services to pay off the debts on the loan. And in the end, they couldn't pay the debts so we'd go back in and say, hey, you owe us. So sell your oil or whatever, copper,

whatever the resource was, real cheap to our corporations without environmental and social regulations. And that was really what my job was. But statistically, you could show that when you invest and that was really what my job was, but statistically, you could show that when you invest in these infrastructure projects, the economy grows. It does, because we measure GDP or GNP growth.

And that really just measures the very rich. So let's go back to what I recall from our meeting there. So the business model of what you did. So one, if I remember that you didn't directly work for the government, because if you did get caught, then it would look like it's the government. So it was a corporation that you would work for. And that corporation is who would send you to go negotiate on behalf of the US government

with not necessarily the bigger countries. It was more smaller, not even mid-size. So you would just say it was smaller countries that you would go to that had some kind of a natural resource that America wanted. And then the negotiation was, we're going to come and build some infrastructure, invest some money into your country. They'll go into a shitton of debt, then in a way to get money back,

is you're going to allow us to build a military in a new country, you're going to give us these resources for $0.50 on a dollar, or $0.10 on a dollar, pretty much for nothing. And then if you don't listen to us, we're going to kill you. Is that pretty much explain the business model you followed? Yes, and yes, it is. And so we're going to kill you, part, was I wasn't going to kill them.

I never carried it again, but I knew the guys were right behind me. We called them jackals. They were CIA. That's what you were talking about, Hitman earlier. They'd be in the room with you while you're having this conversation? No, no. They'd, no. I theoretically didn't know anything about them.

Who's in the room with you when you're having these conversations? Are you the point man or you're saying, hey, here's the deal. Yeah, I'm and who's with you? I'm probably just meeting one-on-one with the minister of finance or perhaps the president. You're rolling in solo to these countries and having these well, no, I've got two or three of the guys who work for me. Okay outside. They're probably not sitting in the meeting They might be it just depended, but but they were there to help produce the numbers. Frankly, I was a lot of the economists. I was chief economist, but I was a good talker. Like I said, I was a good con artist, but I knew how to hire the guys that could crunch the numbers and come up with these econometric models that showed how much the

country was going to benefit. It was used to convince the president, and they would use it to convince their people, the press in their countries, and so on. You know, there was an interesting cartoon that sort of sums this up. That came out many years ago, and it showed me, or an economic hit, man. In one hand, only a fistful of dollars, and saying,

he missed a president. In this hand, I've fistful of dollars, and saying, he is the president. In this hand, I've got hundreds of millions of dollars for you and your family if you buy my deal. And then in this hand, I got a gun, in case you don't. And that was pretty much it. I didn't have the gun, but I knew that there—and he knew, because in our state, you know, we've admitted to taking out the life of Salvador Ayan de of Chile, the Shah of Iran. It must have taken Iran before that, most of the deck particularly.

And we didn't really take out the Shah. We took out most of the deck. The Mumba in the Congo, Ziyem in Vietnam, Arbins in Guatemala. And recently 2009 in Honduras, the president's ally. So a lot of the activity was in Central America, South America, and then in the Middle East is that, or Africa, what were the majority of the countries? Any country that had resources or corporations coveted, they needed money also. Well, and then some like around that didn't really need the money, but they needed us to protect them from Russia and Saudi Arabia had their reasons. But usually

it was countries that needed money, head resources. I focused a lot on Latin America because I had been there a lot, I speak fluent Spanish. So it was a natural for me, but I also spent probably, during the 10 years, a year year in Iran a lot of time in Indonesia Now let me ask you John why why did this these primary like Omar Torihoz I believe right Panama Why did which was one of your favorite guys that you would meet with why did some of these guys Agree to sit down with you. What is the call for them to say, yeah, I'll sit down with John. What call came before you showed up? They would usually get a call from the World Bank, maybe the Secretary of State of the United States, somebody saying, you know, this man's passing through your

country and would like to arrange a meeting to you and talk about what we might do to help your country. That's the script. That's the script. Something like that, yes. And that phone call was made to who? To the president or to his chief of staff or whoever says that's such meetings. But it would probably end up in his hands and to rehearse. So he was an interesting guy, you know, his Panama. It was a very charismatic party animal, loved, you know, loved his cigars and his, and his rum and barbecues.

You know, I get to know him very well because he was very charismatic that way, very flamboyant or not flamboyant, just part. Yes, flamboyant. and his rum and barbecues, you know, I get to know him very well because he was very charismatic that way, very flamboyant or not flamboyant, just part. Yes, flamboyant. This is in the 70s? Yes. Is it before Noriega and everything that happened with that? Yes, not my fax rate.

Yeah, Noriega came after that. So this was during the negotiations with the Panama Canal tree. Got it. It was Carter and Torejo's. And Torejo's got pretty much what he wanted in that. And he became a hero throughout the third, what we call the third, I like to call it, the lower income countries, if you wanted to call it that. He became a hero, and so he became very dangerous.

So the United States really wanted to bring him under control. So I was sent down to rein him in. And he wouldn't be reigned in. He had tremendous integrity. And a big hero. Also, you know, he'd like to be on the front page. And he liked being known as David facing Goliath, you know, he's little country, panel. Underdog mentality. Totally, you know, very, very small country, very small population, but it had the canal. And he became very, very well known throughout the world as a guy who would stand up. So when you spoke to him and you used the same protocol that you used with others in the

past, it wasn't effective with this guy when you spoke to him. It just wasn't in a bunch. And he openly would tell you. What did he tell you openly when you guys spoke? Well, he was the one that really helped me understand what we were truly doing. He pointed out to me something and I'll use today's numbers, but in those days it was similar. Today, if three Americans own as much wealth as half the United States population, right? And if those three Americans made 10% on their assets last year and half the country lost 3%, and they're able to stay the same,

we'd show a growth of something close to 4%. So it would look like the whole country prospered. But in fact, only three people prospered, half stayed the same and half lost 3%. And Torio's pointed that out to me. And so if that's true in the United States, where three people own as much as 50%, imagine what it's like where three people own as much

as 95%, which is true in a lot of these countries. Torijo's pointed out to me, he said, you know, these numbers that you're throwing around, the GDP, it's totally rigged in favor of the rich. You're not helping the poor people with any of these countries. And so he was one of the people that really helped me have to face the truth of what I was doing. And at the same time, you know, one time he took me out on his yacht. He didn't he didn't own the yacht, but he had a lot of friends. He was always out on these yachts.

You know, we're on this yacht where we're drinking all kinds of, you know, rum drinks and disease. We're surrounded by these beautiful bikini-clad ladies. Sounds horrible. Just awful. You would have hated it. Yeah, yeah. Panama. You know, I just saw a video of you,

I don't know, a boat as you were riding here and for you, you were starting to come here and it was kind of like that, except you were surrounded by all these guys. Don't get me started on that, John. Okay, so you're having this drink with them. You're on the yacht. You're having a conversation with them. What's he telling you?

He has to be on the back. He asks me, he says, hey, John, why don't you come work for me? You won't make nearly as much money, but you'll have a lot more fun and you're feel really good about what you're doing for the world. He tried to recruit you. Yeah, for him. Yeah, we pretty convincing. Yeah.

I didn't. I wish I had a no, I don't wish I had a, I think you get assassinated. You know, it's never been proven, but his plane went down very, his private plane in a very suspicious, under various, this is what was it was called. What was the thing called? It was a name for it, like projects something that united fruit, or was that more Guatemalan? No, that was more Guatemalan.

That was more Guatemalan with our bins. Yeah, so with him, you said something about when he got on the plane right after the whole deal he did with Carter, there was a tape recorder that went in and the tape recorder blew up. Has that been verified that was a tape recorder or no? No, when he got on the plane, somebody handed him a tape recorder, and the suspicion is that it was a bomb.

But, you know, when a plane blows up, there's no smoking gun because it blows up too. And just three months before, less than three months before that, Jaime Roldoz, the president of Ecuador, who also stood up to me, did not accept the deals. I wasn't as friendly with him. He was loved by the way. He was loved and adored. He was loved in adored. He was loved in adored.

And democratically elected, for the first democratic elected president and Ecuador in a number of years, he wasn't as warm and fuzzy and friendly as Toreo. So I never got to know him personally the way I did Tariha. But so he died in this plane crash in May, and in 1981, and Tariha was met with his family after that. And he said, you know, my brother Jaime

was just assassinated by the CIA. And again, I was never proven, but there was a suspicion. And he said, you know, I'll probably be next. But don't worry, because I've signed the Panama Canal Treaty with Carter, so I've accomplished what I really came here to accomplish. And less than three months later, I'm almost the same thing happened to him

as how it happened to Roldo's. Now, you don't know if, so for example, you go meet with somebody and you come back and they don't do what you're asking to do. You make the phone call back to the corporation you were working with and you say, this is a no-go. And the individuals you called, who were they? Was it just simply your direct supervisor, were you talking to the CEO of that company, who was your communication with? Well, my direct supervisor was a senior vice president who became president. So I was talking to the

top management of my company. And the call sounded like what? Hey, Bob, they said no. He's not willing to budge. Yeah, I, yeah. I mean, I would just try to catch it in terms of a little bit more color to it. Maybe look a little better. You know, hey, I just spent the last month, measurably drinking rum drinks, you know what? Hey, I just spent the last month measurably drinking rum drinks, you know, and smoking cigars and hanging out with bikini-clad women and still I failed. That kind of thing, but yeah, basically that was it.

And then, so date, but you didn't know the business model. Like, it's not like they told you the business models, if they say, no, we're gonna take a guy out. You didn't know that. You just, or was that a, almost like, code red in the Marines, the movie, a fuked man where everybody knows it's a code, but it's not written anywhere,

but it's talked about amongst leader. Was it kinda like that? Yeah, I think it was like that. I knew, but I didn't know. How many people that you met with right after you left, they got killed, who didn't do a deal? Was it those two guys? Oh, yeah else did the deal everybody else did the deal

Everybody else hiding that with the deal so but you never sat with shot you just partied with shower You spent some time with the shower yeah, yeah, we did you do a deal with the shower? No, yeah We did deals with the Shah, but the Shah now that so that was a different situation So the Shah didn't need to take out loans because you had money at that money He just needed to give our welcome disprimission to go in and take his oil. And that's what we were working on. And the Shah was very clever and then he sort of pitted Russia against us. He said, well, you know, if you guys don't build me these cities, if you don't help me

build... Russia is going to do it. Russia is going to do it. So we were building huge transmission lines that went all the way from Kerman down to Banda Robas. We were building the big military. We actually were building the military base at Banda Robas, which now is a thorn on our side.

It's controlling the streets of Hormuz. But we were building it basically as an American military base. It was an Iranian military base, but for America we have a big presence. And using the Shah's oil to pay our companies to make big profits building this military base. Would you know, was there ever the concern during that time it would be the 70s when you were having dealings with Shah? What did you know about the consortium agreement of 1954?

Because that was the biggest challenge that four countries had. That they were not happy about the amount of power he was getting, because he was gonna give everybody, it was a 25-year agreement they signed from 54, and it was coming up in 79. And I think the PM of France, Britain, I wanna say Germany and Carter obviously met in South or Central

America to talk about this guy's getting a little bit too powerful and we've got to do something about getting rid of this guy. Were you involved in the Exodus of the show or no? No, okay. No, in fact, the night before the bombs went off and what was it, Shiraz or it's a Han. I was in the hotel into Continental in Iran, in Tehran at the bar. And he had a tap on the shoulder and it's for hard. I haven't seen him since the knife, one of the times, after the knife.

The father is a general that we can visit to see. And for hard says to me, we have a little bit of a chat, very brief. And he says, I've got an airplane ticket for you tomorrow in Air France, five o'clock in the morning or something to fly to Rome with me. And I said, no, no, no, I've got a meeting with the Ministry of Finance tomorrow. It's very important. He said, no, no, you're coming with me. And I said, I can't, I've got this meeting. He said, and you looked at me in the eye, and he said, you're coming with me, or you may

never come out of this country. So I was on that. And he said, my father looked at me in the eye, he said, you're coming with me or you may never come out of this country. So I was on that and he said, my father's living in Rome. I said, your father, he's the Shah's general. What are you doing in Rome? He said, he's no longer the Shah's general. He resigned. He's in Rome. We're going to go stay with him.

And I left the next morning and then the next day, is when the beginning of the end for the Shah began. Why were you in Iran? Was this 77 or 78? This is 78. 78, 78, 79. It can't be 78. 78, 78.

Just before the 79 revolution. How long were you when I ran for? Well I was never there for more than a month at a time but probably close to a year over 10 years. So I had an office in Tehran, I had an office in Tehran. I had an office in Tehran. I had one in Panama. You said, you said 10 years?

You were in, he was there, no, like in a month at a time, but he grew over a span of 10 years. Yeah. So what was Iran like in the 70s, basically? I loved it. I loved it. It was beautiful, you know? And I traveled all over from the Caspian

down to the streets of Harmoouce, and I went down in the desert from Kierman down, and it was just beautiful. And Tehran was incredible. It was so progressive. You could sit on what was called Palavi Avenue at that time, and named after the Shah, these cafes, and the Iranian women were, I mean, the mini skirts on Palavi Avenue were shorter than in Paris, if you can believe that. And it was really, it was really struck by how, how intact it all, that must have been when

the, when the moon was took over, you know, and all that, that change that was shocking, because it was. So there was no sharia law going on out there. They're not in the full garb, nothing was going on. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, it was before that. So it was like, it was like the Paris of the Middle East at that point. nothing was going on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no So this major tennis tournament, where they had all the biggest stars from the world kind of like tennis and an international film festival.

But by the way, top three countries in tourism the 70s, you ready? Yeah. Burma, Cuba, Iran. And it's crazy how those countries have completely done a 180. Yeah, now Frank Sinatra would go perform there all the time. Zahidi was dating Elizabeth Taylor. Iran was like de place rich people went to

like yeah about where rich people go to today we're gonna go to Dubai way before it was Dubai it was Tehran Iran you go then you go to Bandar Palavi which is a different port of Palavi by Caspian Sea which you would have caviar as if it's just regular ground coffee. So then the mullahs, whoever was basically saying, all right, this is enough, so enough here. What was that? You were there for 10 years. You must have, you probably don't speak the language, but you must have sensed some unease like, okay, this is the, like what Pat is basically describing is the

Paris of the Middle East and the other bridge people are going but there must be this undercurrent of people not digging this vibe clearly did you sense any of that what was that you know that's what's shocking is no I didn't sense it I don't know that anybody sensed it I've become friends since then with Bob Bayer. You may know him, the CIA guy that the movie serialed on is based on. He was deep undercover, spoke far-see, as well as Arabic. I don't think he was, even though. I don't get how difficult it was for us to understand

what was going on. I understand for me that all the information I got came from translators who worked for the shaw, you know, and that all been, they all been schooled. So there's sweeping things under the rug, everything's fine. Yeah. This way, don't worry, have a drink, have some fun. I would ask to interview some of the poor people and so on and so forth.

I always had a translator because they didn't speak English. And I don't know what was translated correctly. And you know, I know that the same is true around the world. You get a lot of misinformation if you don't speak the language. You know, I find one of the reasons Latin America was so enlightening for me in Torriho's because I spoke Spanish. But in Iran, no, we had knowingly. Iran was the only country at the time. It was Saudi Arabia, well, our contract in Saudi Arabia was actually with the US Treasury Department to build stuff in Saudi Arabia.

That's another story. But I think around, it was the only country where my company did not require advanced payment for the work that we did. We trusted Iran to pay its debts at the money. Yeah. And as a result, we lost millions of dollars when the Shah went down because they owed us a lot of money, which we never collected,

because we totally trusted them. So it is shocking to me how little we understood it. And as any country taking a bigger 180 than Iran, because what he's basically saying, Venezuela would be in the top five because Venezuela used to be a modern-day Iran you tell me the country that has the most supply of oil natural resources of course and it was a beautiful place to go to next the Columbia great place Iran and they also have beautiful women They also know how to park. They also know how to put it together

They also know how to you know have fun and Iran did so as well. But Iran, but Venezuela, I wouldn't put them on the same level as Iran. Iran is working on nuclear missiles. Yeah, but during that time, during that time, this guy had a deal originally, British petroleum, right? Was it Iran, BP, prior to that, it was called the Anglo, something, something, Persian oil company. So it was a, Britain had a chokehold on Iran.

And they pretty much ran everything in Iran until Mossadeh, which was somebody that, you know, his, I don't know of you dealt with Mossadeh's issue. I think other people from... Mossadeh was the early 50s. So I was still a kid. You were still a kid. And Mossadeh was a guy.

Mosadeh would have been the modern day Bernie Sanders. He was a socialist and he wanted to take oil money from Iran and give it to everybody and he didn't like the fact that the rich people were getting richer and all this stuff and he came in and he kind of wanted to negotiate stuff with oil but he wasn't strong enough to negotiate. And then Zahediy which, you know, who Zaheddi is, he was the ambassador of US. Zaheddi was a very powerful man.

And hovee, I would say that as well. But Zaheddi was, how would you describe Zaheddi? He was, like, he dated Elizabeth Taylor. Zaheddi was like, if he was a young Zaheddi, put out of that, a young young no way Tyler spells this right. There's a Z there's an H. There's a lower case. It's not a D Tyler. Can you get this right?

100 bucks if you spell this right on the first time. 100 bucks. Shit, I'll give you 1000 bucks. But I'll sell the ARDE. He went to a point set. ARDESHIR and then put ZAHEDI. Okay, young, okay, go to images, go to images. And this guy was like, the right to click on that one. That one right there is fine.

He's a guy on the top left. Maybe that's a bad picture for him. But look who it is on the right. Do you see who it is on the right? Is that a beetle? Who is that on the right? Is that's a bad picture for him but every so look who does on the right do you see what is on the right people i can't really see what is that on the right is that barbers nice and i think that's barbers rice and yeah zahidi uh... it's crazy what's the date on that article washington post can you click on it flamboyant iranian ambassador

uh... okay died uh... at ninety three what ages that can you get that uh... get rid of that that's so you can't go back and see when he just that because it has to be in the last 18 months and this was who was he in in a run He is he's the guy you go through if you want to do any dealings with the shot so this guy comes in He creates a campaign to get right is like the chief of staff basically. Let me tell you this guy is the shot He is he's a very important guy. Got it. He gets rid of Mossadeh in a way. I mean a lot of people say he got rid of Mossadeh.

But can he say when he died, I wanna know when he died. It has to be in the last 18 months. He gets rid of Mossadeh. Oh really? Shaw comes in, I was supposed to interview him. He was sick when I was supposed to interview him. See when he died. I was supposed to, I think he was living in Switzerland

or Sweden, some like that. November 18th of last year. Shit, that's, look at his birthday. You know he's a special gambler, so I covered 16, two days apart. He died four months, three months ago. I know, he just died. I'm telling you, I had a schedule go to Switzerland.

Switzerland, Switzerland. Mario, we got on a call with the guy. He sent me an autograph of his book saying, I'm looking forward to the interview because we were gonna have some interesting conversations together, but unfortunately he died. Well, do you see who his wife was? His first wife, his wife, stood up into 1964?

Shana's, Pa'lavi. Yeah, you know who that is. Well, Pa'lavi is a pretty well-known man. Yeah, that's the sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh-sh- who was prime minister and I get to know quite well was executed. He was shot by, we don't know whether it was a firing squad or the somebody shot him just before his visit. I'm surprised he lived this long. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's lucky. He made it because Hoveeta right after the revolution was put on trial and found guilty of all kinds of things.

Oh, no question about it. This Chomene was after this guy for longest time. Everybody was like, this guy's not gonna make it. No, he's. But he made it to 93 legit respect for him too. Make it that long. By the way, this guy for longest time. Everybody was like, this guy's not gonna make it. But he made it to 93 legit respect for him too, make it that long. By the way, this guy was the inside cupid of everything that took place during that time.

If there's a guy that knew it was this guy. Anyways, so the shot all of a sudden went from being a 21 year old kid that takes over Iran at 21 years old. Think about this. And his dad was a very feared man, very much of a dictator, strong, strong dictator. Shaw was a little bit more gentle.

He spoke several languages. Okay, he spoke French, he spoke English. He spoke better English than you and I speak English. If you ever see him in interviews, you'll be blown away by this guy, the Shaw. So he changes everything, and he runs. He makes it basis, we gotta get rid of the, what do you call it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, guy, the Shah. So he changes everything in Iran. He makes it basis. We got to get rid of the, what do you call it, the, the workers, or because they put it, you got to get rid of this. You

got to make it a little bit more free. And then some of the more conservative Muslims were upset because he was thinking women are getting a little too loose, too comfortable with the way they're doing. They're getting too much power. He increased the age of women getting married from eight to 13 to 15. And I'm telling you that's the number. From 8, a 55-year-old man, prior to him, could marry an eight-year-old girl.

And he raised her to 13, then to 15. And I think now it's back down to 13, or some number like that in Iran. So he made a lot of positive things, but he became a little too powerful. And that scared the crap out of US, and Britain, and France, and Germany, because they can no longer control them.

And when he became too powerful, that's when they said we got to figure out who to hurt this guy. And next thing, you know, guys like him, maybe not him, but guys like him showed up and they totally ruined Iran because if it wasn't for economic hitmen like you, Johnny, it's all your fault. You understand this? This is the whole reason why I got you here today. That's why I wrote a confession because I know it's true and incidentally, you know,

the one country you left out of all that was China. So, Hoveta was really flirting with China at the time and using that in the United States' face. That's right. ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... the Soviet Union, but also we're seeing China's on the march here, and the United States didn't even realize that China was doing what it was doing. 70s were years this. Yes, in the 70s. And so, you know, the Shah and all of his team were really, really sharp as if they were shrewd, they were really shrewd, playing the Soviets against the Chinese, the Chinese against the

Americans, the Americans against everybody, and the French were in there in the English. Everybody wanted a part of Iran. And as- Because of the oil? Because of the oil, but also the location. So Iran protects Europe from Russia, from the Soviet Union, basic. So the Egypt,, lines, everything. And also, the feeling was that if the Shah would be successful, then the rest of the Middle

East would probably use him as a model, which we liked, because he was a guy who, who has Patrick said, was very strong dictator. But he also... Who was a strong dictator, the father? The father was. Yeah, yeah. Brutal. I mean, the sun feared him.

Yes, well, and I think... You referred to the Shah as a dictator, and when you guys had a speedrun, you used that terminology to describe the Shah, did you not? Yeah, the Shah was a dictator also. As Patrick said, he was milder than his father. I've heard... Stop, John. I've heard that I've heard...

This is called misinformation. Don't let the smell fool you. But why, so you disagree with what he's saying? Okay, let's define a dictator. What's a dictator? Well, somebody who doesn't have to be elected basically, maybe an autocratic. Well, he was an imperialist, which I agree.

Yes, yes. Imperialist is different than a dictator. There's a big difference. What is the difference? What is the difference? So what is Britain? Oh, it's a standoff. What's a dictator. There's a big difference. What is the difference? What is the difference? So what is Britain? Oh, it's a standoff. Would you say, would you say,

we'd be in Britain? We'd just say, we'd just say, we gotta get my bag. Would you say, we're not back. Would you say Britain's a form of government as a dictator? No. Why not?

Because it's a parliamentary, it's a parliamentary republic or what is it? you're saying that when it was a monarchy? you're saying that the monarchy is a dictator so it's definitely a monarchy is a dictator no, certainly not in Britain it is so the monarchy doesn't have control

but in Iran the monarchy was ruled so but a dictator is what? a dictator says if you don't do what I tell you I kill you right? if you don't do what I tell you I kill you right if you don't do what I tell you I'm gonna ruin your life. Yeah, something's gonna have okay I mean you tend to you tell me in America right now. I've got forbid you know Joe Rogan says something that they disagree with we're gonna ruin your life. It's just a different way of being a hit man Yeah, but in fact that the Shah did say that

What he ruined people's lives if they didn't agree with him it it was a it at that time what do you call a CIA at that time? What did you guys do? Then you're a dictator. I'm sorry. So the way we were supporting a dictator. No, you are the ultimate dictator. So if we define them as a dictator, you are the ultimate dictator. We tried to be.

No, that's what I'm saying. We tried to be very careful when we dropped the name, Dictator, because then I'm a FDR as a dictator. Patrick, I love the way you're talking about the important use of words. I watch Incredible video where you get in English. It's my fifth language. I'm trying to get better at this I love it. Can we pull up the actual definition of a dictator? Go picture right next to it is gonna be But go ahead. So you call the shot dictate well you're saying that the show was not a dictator No, if we have to define what a dictator is a dictator is a

political leader who possesses absolute power dictatorships of state ruled by one dictator by small click the word originated as a title of a Roman dictator elected by the Roman senate to rule the republic of emergency but you said that times the father the father of the Shah was a dictator. But the brutal dictator. Let me tell you, the father was, let me take, like the son never saw the father. Like this father never played with the son.

It's like you're lucky to be around your dad. You have to go learn and maybe once a month or once a year would see his dad. The dad was feared, brutal, killer, my way or the highway and everybody, he got exiled I think once or twice. They kicked him out once or twice. Well, and ultimately the Shah took him out. I mean, it wasn't, it was a CIA that came in and brought in the Shah, but the Shah kind

of replaced most of the deck. But most of the deck had replaced the father. True. Yeah. Listen, here's, here's, I mean, on the most of deck we had a true democracy. Iran had a true democracy. That was the Bernie Sanders of Iran,

that's what you're saying, that was. Well, Sadeh was a socialist, is who he was. But he was elected by the people. Yes. He was elected by the people, but he was a socialist who, there is in no way He had the strong personality of a Bernie Sanders. That was not him

Moza that was you know how he died he died living in a small village by himself chilling nobody bothered him for years Socialist true socialist basically he was in the house arrest. He was but there's that little component He had no choice But he had a capitalist, not an socialist, a first of all, first of all. When you're talking about a guy, you judge a country by the progress and the results that they're making.

What happens if a guy doesn't get results? You can talk shit about a parent all you want until you see the kids end up becoming leaders. You can call Bella check a dictator until they win six championships. You can call Tom Brady as a quarterback a dictator because he's, you know, off the, you know, he's such a nice guy. And then you talk to his opponents and Pittsburgh Steelers and they're like, dude, you guys don't know the Brady we know. This is a dirty guy.

This is a competitor. This is a psycho guy, right? So, okay, but he wins. He got a result. So, Iran under the shah made a lot of progress. That's all I'm saying. The progress was made under him. But make the point you were making when he asked the question. What was the question? You asked the question about the fact that, you know, what happened during, and you were talking about the whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole

whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole whole that the end. Do you know why they killed them? Do you know the cause for why they killed them? Well, he was found guilty for what? Do you know what he was found guilty for? You ready? Crazy as think. He was found guilty. He was tried by the new established revolutionary

court under Homanie for waging war against God. Oh yeah, that whole thing. That's right. That's right. Waging war against God. Waging war. That's right. That's right. Waging war against God. Waging war. Can you imagine if that's a very provable charge, right? Very provable charge. And they executed this guy at 60 years old. I think it was 60, maybe like 60 or 7 years old.

Yeah, I think it was 60. I think it's just very interesting because I'm an American. I'm Jewish quite frankly. And I look at things from more of Middle Eastern relations. A lot of times from an Israeli perspective. But I just think it's very important because obviously Pat Born and Iran, we cover Iranian topics, what's going on there, everything they're doing nuclear, everything with that. I just think it's very important to point out how different Iran was at one point and

how quickly under certain regimes things can change, right? It's almost night and day what you're describing of the rich places or people coming all over the world, the Elizabeth tailors are hanging out there, the synotry is performing and now it's like, Pat can't even go visit the country if he wanted to. That's how different Iran is and I just think that's important to To highlight it's yeah, well if I go I'm definitely taking a two of you for sure I'm not going with you I mean nothing yeah, I'll go anywhere in the world with you accepted around bro I thought there are any about that crazy are there any countries you are literally not allowed to go at this point of your career?

Well, I don't think I would be welcoming around at all. I don't know whether it would be allowed to go there or not, but it probably wouldn't be allowed to leave. That's perhaps more important. John Perkins, let me ask you another question. We've sat down with... I'm not allowed to go to North Korea. Well, nobody really was encouraged to go there, but we've

sat down with you know Mafiosos you know Pat has done Uber amount of interviews with names of names of names we all know that and I I'm always wondering like these guys fear for their life what kind of retribution what what person out there is the sound of someone that they killed, they come back, do you fear for your life at all? I mean, you're an economic hitman. You've self-described con man who has literally sat down with presidents, prime ministers, dictators. Some of them haven't made it out of the much longer out of the meeting. So where do you stand on fear and terror?

Well, I don't mean to put you down, but you obviously didn't read the new confessions that it economic hit when we were published in 2016 where I talk about it was poisoned and lost 70% of my large intestine to a hospital in New York City. I was supposed to speak at the United Nations on a Tuesday, on a Tuesday. I flew up to New York from Florida where I lived at the time on Monday, had lunch with this journalist who it turns out probably was not a journalist. And that night I lost a huge amount of blood in my body, was rushed to the Linux Hill hospital, or eventually they took out 70% of my large intestine, and a lot of the evidence points toward poison.

It was never, once again, never concluded because by the time we even suspected it, the part of my intestine had been removed, it had been incinerated, which they do immediately as they built something out of your hospital. But my life was threatened. So when I started writing the book after I was an economic hitman,

I started writing a book about my experiences and immediately got anonymous phone calls, threatening my life and my infant daughter's life. You can imagine it, Pat, you've got to be a good infant child. And at the same time, I was taken out to dinner by the president of Stoneham Webster, a big consulting firm in Boston,

and been a competitor of my company that I just left. And he takes me out to dinner and says, hey, you know, you've got a great resume, you're a chief economist at one of our competitors, you had 50 people working for you. We'd like to use your resume in our proposals. You don't have to, you don't have to do any work for us, but just let us use your resume. And I'm prepared to write a check to you tomorrow for $500, $500,000, half a million dollars. This isn't the late 80s, it was worth more than today. It was millions of this money. Yeah.

And then he says, just don't write the book. So in fact, I'm getting the same treatment that I've been giving these presidents. I'm being offered, you know, I'm now without a job. I'm paying profit, half a million dollars in one hand, in the other hand. I don't know, I don million dollars in one hand and you're having that. And so you deserve that treatment though.

What does anybody deserve that kind of treatment? I'm asking you, I live a pretty moral life. I don't fear for my life, but a lot of the stuff you're doing kind of, I assume comes with the territory. Well I wanted to expose what I'd done and write the book, but I took the money. And I have to say my own defense. I didn't go out and buy a fence. You did take the money.

I did take the money. I didn't buy Ferrari. That's a good car. Welcome to it. I know a couple of guys that have it. Yeah. I probably should have. The way you said that, I'm probably never going to drive that far away.

There was helicopters all around the house last night and Jen was worried. Maybe they were chasing after John. I don't know. I know he's around. Yeah. So I actually took the money and went back to the Amazon where I'd been a Peace Corps volunteer and had such a huge impression on my life. And I'd been reading how the Amazon is being destroyed.

So I go back to the Amazon and tell the indigenous people there, the Shwai, the Outer Art people I've lived with. I want to come and help you save your forests. And this started me off on a whole new career. They said, well, if you want to save the forests, then don't come here and try to change us. It's your oil companies, your lumber companies, your mining companies. It's your dream in the north, that you're a dream of big buildings and ferraries,

and other such things that are destroying these forests. So change the dream of your people. So I came back and formed a non-profit called DreamChange and then Pacha Mama Liance, I began writing books about this. So, you know, I... 500,000 honors of silence, you you was kind of the model. Yeah. So I would it was don't say anything will give you half a mil. Don't don't write that book. They're okay with me writing books on shamanism and digits. I was encourage that.

Just not on. Not on what I've done. And then my contract was over by 9-11. I'm in the Amazon with a group of people that I'm taking you into work with to save the forest. 9-11 happens. I fly up to New York, I go and stand and look down at that pit, and I knew I had to write this book. I'm not saying there's a connection between what I did in 9-11, but it just struck me that I had to write this book, and this time I decided that I wouldn't contact other economic

hitmen and jackals. There's had been no one before. So the word I got now, that's time I decided that I wouldn't contact other economic hitmen and jackals as I'd been doing before. So the word I got now, that's why I get the threads, this time I decided I'd write the whole book completely in secret as a confession, not as an expose, but as a confession. And I figured once I got it in the hands of publishers, it would be my insurance policy. So I went ahead and did that and thought it was my insurance policy and then till I get poisoned and then then then then then that put a different what what your was associated you got a half a million 1980. Yeah that's equivalent of 1.7 million dollars today which is not bad money that you got in 1980. You have to let me ask you when you work for

Chastie main Chastieain was a company that you were a chief economist for. Is that like the equivalent of a, you know, Booz Allen Hamilton type of thing today, or who would you compare it to? I don't know that there's anybody to compare it to. We were very low profile. We were always told, don't talk to the press, don't let anybody know. We were doing a pretty powerful company, but really low profile.

We did a lot of engineering work as well as the economic work. Is it still around or not? No, it was bought up by Parsons, and I think it was bought up by somebody else in the name. Disappeared, basically, everything disappeared. So if you were to, if you were to, if you were to say, the Chaste main company of 1970s today would be XYZ, who would that be?

It was a partnership. I became a partner. I don't know. I really don't know. But it's a consulting firm. Why would you describe it? It was a consulting firm. It's kind of like almost all of our work

was either for the World Bank or the yours Treasury Department, State Department. We did a lot of work for those kinds of organizations. I hadn't watched Goodfellas for a while. The other day on the flight back from Vegas, I watched Goodfellas. And his girl's like, so, why is everybody know you? Why is everybody respect you? What do you do?

He says, I do construction. I can't, I was obviously. But when you guys were asked, what does it are you do? Did you say, I'm a consultant? What did you say you did? Yeah, we're consulting firm. We're consulting firm. It's like the most big term on it.

That's the point. I just consult with this. But you gotta realize when you look at some of those companies today, the Booz Allen Hamilton and others, that's snowed and used to work for. And others used to work for. Some of these companies are also consulting companies, right? And they work directly with a lot of these major government No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not.

No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not.

No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not.

No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it idea. In fact, after I wrote the book, I got emails or letters or whatever it was in those days and calls from people said, God, I always wondered what the heck was going on. And now I understand. But so a lot of people, totally in the dark about what's going on, there's just a few that would be actually doing that kind of work. Can I ask you a quick question just about your demeanor? When I don't feel no disrespect, I see you and I'm thinking, this guy chills hippie it out kind of dude. And I was wearing like a Jaguar T-shirt.

Are you the same person you were in the 70s, meaning were you a lot more stern and straight forward? And because you seem like a pretty chill guy. Have you changed significantly? Or is this always been you kind of casual? And that was perfect for the role? I'm a lot happier now. So I think I have changed a lot.

Yeah, I was pretty uptight. I always wore it. Of course, I wore it tight. I was super-suitant-tied all the time, basically, except maybe when I was in some really hot climate where nobody else was wearing them. I wanted to fit in. But yeah, and I had up to 50 people working for me, and I was pretty strict with them. I was trying to come across as personable,

because I was part of my job. Really, I say this not as a joke, but my job was to be a con artist. It was to con countries into accepting these deals. And to back them up with very fancy, econometric reports and all kinds of statistics. I had guys that would do that. You know, just like you, you get guys over here that can tell you what,

what, $500,000 a 1980 is worth today. Yeah, that's our, that's our con man's tradition over there. But did you know you were a con man? Meaning like, I'm obsessed with the movie Catch Me If You Can't't lean out of the cap, what an amazing movie, right? But he knew what he was doing. He was making moves, he was doing things, he was printing out ideas. The whole thing, he was cash and checks forging. Did you know that you were a con man or you were just kind of like, no, this is my job and I'm gonna sell it and be a good company man. Well, I knew that what I was supposed to, what I was,

in the beginning, I thought what I was doing was the right thing. I was convincing these countries to take these large loans that would increase their GDP. Got it. And I had been to the business school. Everything revolves around GDP. You know, if you can increase GDP, you've helped the country. That was what we were taught. So I believe that for a long time.

Yes, I was trying to talk presidents into doing this, but I thought I was talking to them and doing what was best for their people. And over time, so I only did that job for 10 years, but in part, I'd say around beginning of year five or so I began to see that maybe these things are quite like they seem. Partly because I'd been in the Peace Corps,

I spoke Spanish, and a total large degree because of Torriho's and a few other people, I think I write in the Peace Corps, I spoke Spanish, and a told large degree because of Torriho's. And a few other people, I think, I write in the book about I was started to date very seriously a Colombian woman in Colombia. I had an office in Bogota in one in Baranquia, two offices in Colombia. And her share of brother who was part of FARC, you know, the, the, you know, the, what do you call it, the mill, the Columbia and gorillas, the Columbia and gorillas, yeah. And she, you know, she was, she was also putting a big buzz in my hair, but well, you can understand what America is really doing here. And so I began to see this, but once I began to understand the truth behind what I was doing, I didn't want to believe

it. And I think a lot of people are in this position today and always that we, you know, has made a lot of money. I was flying first class around the world, meeting with presidents, hanging out with, you know, beautiful women and all kinds of them. I was living my dream, the American dream I thought. So I really didn't, I wanted to buy into the sales job that I was getting. And a couple of times I started to try to quit, I went and talked to my boss and said, I

think I'm going to quit a little, take a year or two off or do whatever. I tried to be diplomatic about it. They would send me to personnel, which now is human relations. Human resources. Human resources. Human resources. And we got a great HR guy who shut off the rubber. And what happened without conversational?

Well, well, they'd sit there and stare at me and say, how could you possibly leave? You're at the best job in the world. If you don't like what's going on, exactly, you've changed it. You're chief economist. You're head of this department. And stay here and work from the inside,

the same old line. Was he selling you? Yes. Oh absolutely. I want to transition into some current events. That's just what I like to do. So, you know, one of the videos I watched of you, there was a quote of John Adams and it said there are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.

One is by the sword and the other is by death, okay, which is part of your formula on what you guys did, right? It was a lot of death and you're forcing them to do whatever you want them to do, right? Okay, there's this country that is creating a lot of momentum. I don't know if you've heard of them, it's called China. And China, US owes to China, one trillion, 500, I think it it's one trillion fifty billion hours is what we owe China okay one point oh five trillion in debt to China so if this quote is right there are two ways to conquer an enslavement nation one is by the sword the others by the debt by debt is America Is America enslaved to China?

This is a really important question, Pat. And it's a book I'm writing out, comes out in October. It's called New Confessions of an Economic Hitman Edition 3, China's Economic Hitman. And I've been spending the last three, four years working on this book. China owns the world now pretty much. And they do it under the guise of the New Silk Road, which is very appealing to countries in Africa, not in America, in the Middle East, and all over,

that will become part of an international trading network. Our economic hitmen were never smart enough to come up with that kind of a scenario. They've got a great message. And yes, I think the United States and China are incredibly interwoven. And China is winning this battle, if you want to call it a battle. But at the same time, the United States is also gaining a lot. So our investors have over $100 billion invested in China. You know, where would Microsoft be without China?

Where would Apple be? Where would any of these high tech companies be without China and its technology? A third of all the international students in the United States today are Chinese. They're here learning incredibly from us. They were learning all about us. We're not doing the same thing.

We're criticizing China, but we're not really sending many people over to really try to understand what's going on in China. They don't let you. Oh, yeah, they do. No, they don't. You can go and study in China. Let me ask you, let me ask you a question, when it comes down to media, we're open. We tell the world about our problems. China doesn't tell the world about their problems. They're very much of a secrecy where we can't learn about them. That's a misconception, Pat. I hate to say, but I taught in a business school in Shanghai, an MBA school. It's constantly ranked as one of the top ten in the world, along with Harvard and Stanford and so on.

The Chinese students there know everything about what's going on in the world. Many of them studied here or in Europe. I don't think you got what I said. I said we don't know about what China is doing because China doesn't want the world to know what they're doing. Well we can go there and learn. They don't have open media. They don't have a free press.

Well they don't. There's no social media in China. No, just they don't have free press. Well, we say one bad thing about the G your Jack Ma, you disappear for five months. Everyone's scared shit. But their biggest influence are on their biggest platform that's a TikTok type of a model. She had like 50 million followers. She disappeared just because she said one bad thing and supported the people in. Yeah, that's true within China. But outside of China, there's a lot of information that's available. What does the information

that you think is not available? What do you mean? What lot of information that's available. What does the information that you think is not available? What do you mean? What is the information that's not available? China says the unemployment is 2% do you believe that? Do you believe their unemployment is 2%? I do. You believe China? I believe that.

1.5 million people living there. Slave trade. You're talking about people working in, you know, the leaders. Yeah, the weak. You're saying their unemployment is only 2% come on, John. I mean, you're counting me right now. That's what you want me to believe.

I don't know whether 2% but it's low. It's very low. It's low. I mean, they're putting people to work tremendously. They've brought close to 800 million people out of poverty in the last 30 years. That's more than the whole rest of the world combined. Which is true. They did great for them.

And they've had, part of that is they've had to sit on the back of America. 10% average annual growth in their economy. It's never happened without Nixon and U.S. though. Oh, yeah, that's true. I don't know that. You, of course, the world knows that. Whoa, Nixon went there, you mean?

Nixon is the reason why the trade up and up with China. So it happened on the backs knows that. Well, Nixon went there, you mean? Nixon is the reason why the trade up and up with China. So it happened on the backs of America. Well, you can say that, but you can also say that America has tremendously profited off China because, as I said, our high tech industries wouldn't be here without Chinese goods. I don't know. I think that's a strategically flawed strategy US took, which I would agree with that. They rely too much on one country and now they're paying a price for it.

So what I'm trying to say is, as a tremendous interrelationship between these two countries right now, I don't think we can survive without China right now, and I don't think China can survive without us. They need our market. And the two countries have an incredible exchange of information and knowledge. All of our high tech companies like Apple and have offices, have facilities in China. Their high tech companies have facilities here. There's a huge interchange in that.

And I think what we need to do instead of just always looking at China as the bad guy. And yeah, China made a lot of mistakes. They've done a lot of horrible things. Yes, the Uyghurs and what's going on in the South China Sea. What's going on in Taiwan? I'm not apologizing for China. What I am saying is in this world today, these countries are very interdependent.

This is not like the Soviet Union in the United States. We were never interdependent. We did not rely on the Soviet Union for the United States. We were never interdependent. We did not rely on the Soviet Union for technology or anything else. Soviet Union never offered the world, anything the world really wanted. Soviet Union was powerful because it had nuclear weapons. That's it.

That's it. That's it. That's it. That's Russia today. That's it. Yeah, the Soviet Union, but I knew a lot of students in Latin America who were Marxists, and they would go to school in Russia.

But they didn't consider Russia to be Marxist. They consider Russia to be Stalinist, and they did not want Ecuador or Peru or Argentina to have any government like the Soviet Union. They did not want the economy of the Soviet Union. They do want the economy that China has. They want to see the kind of growth that China has demonstrated to the world that it can do. From 1973 until now, China has had incredibly economic growth. You know what's happened in the United States? We've gone from 60% of the population being in the middle class to 50%. We have not had an increase in average wage when you account for inflation since 1973.

Why do you think that is? Terrible economic approach in our country. Terrible what? It's our economic system in this country. I don't think it's economical. What do you think it is? You think it's economical? What are you, what are you,

you talked about your three guys that are the richest people that have half the money, right? They you talked about the world. Okay, how do you think they got done? How do you think they got this? Well, you can't generalize it. I mean, there's many different, okay, how do they do it got them? How do you think they got that? You can't generalize it. I mean there's many different People just give me an idea. How do you think they got them? How do you become that wealthy in America? If I knew I'd probably be one of them, but I don't know what I'm saying

You probably know because you're up there. You tell me I it's not asking you because you I don't know I don't know how they get there but about what I do know but what I do know Pat is that they're not being taxed for her and they're using in their kind of companies are using infrastructure there they're using all of that that argument you're gonna lose to who's not being tax for do you know who's paid the most taxes in a history of America and individual you know who's paid the most taxes ever in a history of America? No. Who? I said I don't know how much. It's a guy named Elon Musk, you know,

what he paid this year? No. $11 billion. And what percentage of that was a versus his income? Who was his tax? What was his tax? It's not about his tax. And he didn't take incomes.

If he takes income, he pays taxes on his son. It's not in capital gains. Yeah, so that's capital gains. But the point is to make, to pay that much taxes, that's more gains, but the point is to make to pay that much taxes That's more than every single US president in the history of America combined in their lifetime Okay, so Take every congressman every senator every president every governor combine all of their taxes in their lifetime. This guy paid more and won your, and guys like you, and guys like others in politics, bash this guy.

You know how much you give to charity yesterday? How much you think you give to charity yesterday? Charity. I don't really. Six billion. So what's the big foot? But what the point is? Six billion, I mean, what's it?

How much is it taken on of this? No, no, but the point is the government who says, give us more taxes, and we do government who says give us more taxes and we do and we give them more taxes. We see nothing. And there's zero accountability. The difference is that Elon Musk is publicly scrutinized constantly because there is a form of accountability in the free market price, free enterprise.

There is zero accountability with the government. If I go to TSA for customer service, they treat me like shit. If I go to clear, they treat me royally. Clear is a free market company. TSA is a government organization. They flat out disrespect you at TSA. They don't act clear.

So the American people are sitting there saying, Johnny, we'll get more money to the government. Just show us what the hell you're doing with it. Because you have improving yourself. Every time you tell us give us more money, erase taxes, erase taxes, erase taxes, we don't see any results. So what are you going to do at this point? So Pat, tell me then why has the men no real increase in wages? In the real average wage in this country since 1973, why has the middle class gone from 60% in the population to 50%? Why did all the 200 or 400 and however many billionaires we've got now?

What is it? It's 742, I think, or something like that. Billionaires made, I can't remember the numbers now, was 70% more than they had during the pandemic. Why? And I'm going to give it the answer. Yeah. I'll give it the answer. I'll give it the answer. You ready? Yeah. Okay. Ever wonder why politicians never spent any of their time coming out with programs to educate low and middle income families on how to get out of debt. Ever wonder why politicians don't want to low and middle income families to become wealthy and make money? Do you ever wonder maybe these guys don't want you to be an upper class?

Maybe they want to keep you at low income. Maybe they want to keep you at middle income. Why? Because if they do every two to four years when they need your vote, they're going to get your vote. When's the last time you saw a governor, a senator, a congressman, emphasize education to adults on how money works? Let me go to another step with you here.

I totally agree with you, instant. I know. But I'll go to another part. I'll go to another part. But you're not really hitting it on the point. How many get to the next point here? Because your point was that 70% of their net worth increased on the last 24 months.

No problem. Let's talk about that. How much money do we on the last 24 months. No problem, let's talk about that. How much money do we print the last 24 months? What's the dollar amount? No idea. Over five trillion. Over five trillion, more than 40% of all the money in history of America has been printed on the last 24 months.

Okay? Now they take that money and they send what do you call it? All these money they send to people. Stimulus checks. Stimulus checks to people. The people that are getting the money with stimulus checks. What do you think they're doing with their money? Or for one thing, I brought a lot of kids out of poverty. No, they didn't. Yes, they did. They did. The statistics would have gone up. But what do you think they do with that money? What do you think they do with that money? You tell

me. Well, you tell me what they do with that money. And now if I'm a customer to spending money and I'm spending the money buying stuff, I buy more stuff. And when you buy more stuff, who's running those companies that sell more stuff? The people at the top, so the money always flows to the top. So essentially, the politicians that you want to increase the taxes for, they're the reason why billionaires increase their network, 70% the last two years.

Well, there's a couple different things going on. It's not a blanket statement. So, and this is what I want to get to the heart about it, because the fact support that, yes, people have spent a lot more money, but they've also more people have gotten out of debt. This is what happens when you print $5 trillion. There's options.

People have saved a lot more. People have, because with unemployment and stimulus checks, they've had a lot more of their bank accounts. They paid off debt. I think this is the first time in decades that basically, personal debt decreased, certain's the pandemic. So it's not just some blanket statement here.

But go with, I'm sorry, I'm sorry Adam. You can't say something like that. No, no, you can't say something like that Okay, so go to where you just went I'm just saying that there's it's not everyone spent all their money some people save some people got a debts But this is what happens if you just find it's true. Let's talk about that guys like you realize if I give you if I have a hundred Dollars right now. I give it to you. Did that hundred dollars disappear? No, but at the end of the, the money flowed to the top.

But let me go a little bit further. If I give you $100, did that money disappear? No, it didn't. The money just transferred to you. If you give that $100 to him, did the money disappear? No, it just went to him. If the money goes from him to him, did that money disappear? That $100 is still out there, right? It's just not in my hand, and your hand out and his end. It's now in his hands, right? Okay fine

That five trillion dollars that we put in the economy. Where does that five trillion dollars go to? So oh my god, I paid so many people's credit card then in college debt really where did I five trillion go to? Pat pat but where did I five? I'm asking everywhere It's gone all of it circulated all over the economy a lot of it lot of it. A lot of it. A lot of it. A lot of it. Went to the stock market and that goes to basically where he's on most. It's bigger than that guys. It's bigger than that. This guy is sitting here just gave this strategy on how to ruin a nation who gives a shit worth at five trillion dollars went to. Here's what a five trillion dollars a hundred percent To our debt to our debt. Yeah

That five trillion dollars is debt like one side of the The speaker today our guest today's John Perkins economic hit man We're the business philosophy is what we can kill him with the sword or debt Mm-hmm, and we're like oh, but we paid off college it. Oh, we paid off credit Oh, but we bought more Bitcoin. Oh, but we bought more than if these oh, but we paid off college shit. Oh, we paid off credit. Oh, but we bought more Bitcoin. Oh, but we bought more than if these open. We know bullshit. The country you love is officially enslaved to others.

And what do we have to do with this money? They have to get that money from somewhere so that we print some more money to me. Oh, let's help the poor even more. This is not the strategy. I'd love nothing more. This is a 99 cent store guy. I'm a guy. My parents got a divorce. I'd love nothing more. This is a 99 cent store guy. I'm a guy, my parents got a divorce. I don't have any money when we grow up. I'm a guy that went to the military. I was going to do military for four years. If a guy didn't

sit there and say, Hey, you need to kind of figure out how money works. Where the hell am I today? I'm just another guy that sitting there saying, Can you please send us more stimulus checks? This is not the right strategy. We want the same mission to help middle income, median income to go higher, but the way to do it isn't to send more money to people. That is not the strategy, because that keeps validating your business model. When you went in sat down with people like,

you know, the Guadalmala guy, Hacopo Guzman, when you sat down with Ecuador, Aguilera, Jaime Aguilera, when you went in sat down with Panama, Omar Toríos, when you went in sat down with Ecuador, Aguilera, Jaime Aguilera, when you went and sat down with Panama Omar Toríos, when you went and sat down with Venezuela, when you, all this stuff, it just validates to four-minute works. So what are you saying? It's good to have a country where three individuals have as much wealth as half the population.

I'd call that an oligarchy. What would you call it? I'd really like to know. What do you, is that a democracy? Do you like sports? Some. What do you like? Soccer I would say. Is that a democracy? Do you like sports? Some. What do you like? Soccer.

Soccer? OK. You like hockey? Who's your favorite hockey player? I haven't been following this. You're actually. Who's the greatest hockey player of all time? Grotsky.

Is it fair that he scored more assists and goals than anybody else by a mile? That's a shame. John, I'm appalled that we allow somebody to beat number two by so much with goals and assists. You should have never beat the greatest hockey player prior to him by so much. That is embarrassing.

We should limit how much he should have beat second place because we should give more minutes to the other guy because God forbid Wayne Gretzky, why are you getting so many minutes? We shouldn't let him play so much. We shouldn't have these success stories. So let's keep people less. Let's only beat the record by one goal, not not not 600 goals. So you're saying you're saying that the American economy is a sports game. Yes, it is. You're playing again. Capitalism is a game. So socialism, the difference is capitalism.

The difference is capitalism. You control the game based on what you do. But you think what the United States has today is capitalism with a touch of social, with a touch of social programs. What we have is predatory capitalism or oligarchic capitalism. There is not true capitalism. Because true capitalism, true capitalism, capitalism because true capitalism, true capitalism, you know, the definition of capitalism is that the means of production, manufacturing and commerce are not owned by the government the owned by individuals. You're going to lose this argument when you go, keep going. You will see about that. I'll go for it.

I'm enjoying this. Go ahead. I have to know that I think I have an argument like this with an embryonian. I mean, anybody who's not bybekah, because I enjoy our conversation. So let me get to you. So in our form of capitalism, the government does not own individual enterprises, but the individual enterprise owners own the government.

So when you go and you talk about our politicians and what they're doing and so forth, that's because they're owned by the oligarchy. That's because they're owned by the billionaires. So who's the problem? So who's the problem? The system's the problem. The fact that corporations and the corporation owners

can put so much money into the carcrony cabinet. So guess what? And so guess what? So what's they call oligarchy? So guess what? So guess what? So then this goes to one thing. So you think we should have lobbyists

Not on the lobby so good right now we have 300 lobbyists to every member of Congress. You think that's a good thing. No, you think we should have lobbyists period I think I think you can have middlemen, but it's not not lobbyists that are that are so totally self-firing people Do you see senators and Congressmen retire and become lobbyists making six million year a lot okay so what do you think happens or what what do we have that that's part of the bribery that's part of the corruption we shouldn't have that i agree okay then so we have one area that we agree with we agree that the reason why these billionaires can get away with that is because they have lobbyists that their pain money and the senators and congressman if you got a half a million dollars to stay quiet in nineteen eighty what the hell you think

they're getting behind the first door okay if you got a half a million dollars to quite a nineteen eighty what do you think the senators and congressmen are getting wallets in here's eight hundred thousand dollars to me favor can you make sure you hurt the other small business owners i can work as i've actually heard that the congressman can be bought for ten thousand dollars can come out it was a hundred thousand come on here for today come on your side but if you really want be bought for ten thousand dollars can come out it was a hundred thousand dollars come on your super today come on your side but if you really want to push for you then it's a hundred thousand i've heard this a hundred thousand dollar number but i don't think that's a good

system though i don't either okay so we're on the same page with that but it's not the fault of for example if i so so it's the fault of whoever created those laws not the fault of the capitalist if you allow players who use steroids if you allow players to use steroids, if you allow players to use steroids, and it's legal, guess what? That's the law. If you don't, it's not the law. You know, the MLB is no longer testing for steroids. Well, it just happened with the Russian educator. She's not allowed to use steroids, but she did. And she's been forgiven for it. I think there's still struggling

with that. So we tell me how many people are watching the Olympics today. Are you watching it? I think I mean it. The only person I know that's watching it is my dad and he's watching this curling. I'm like, Dad, what the hell are you watching? And they're watching this curling game that's going on. But the point I'm trying to make to you is, it ain't the capitalist, it's the lawmaker. Well, but the capitalist is the lawmaker. No, because they are for sale.

Yes. If they weren't for sale, this wouldn't be the case. But why are they for sale? Who do you blame? So do you blame the prostitute or the John? The prostitute has a choice not to be a prostitute. There's a lot of... The John has a choice not to be a John. No, but wait a minute, if the prostitute or the John The prostitute has a choice not to be a prostitute There's a lot of that's John has a choice not to be a John no no but wait a minute if the prostitute chooses not to be a prostitute Then John doesn't can't find a prostitute and the prostitute girls broke because she's got no other job

No, she'll find a different way to make her money. That's on her. Maybe no, no, it's not maybe. Oh, that's not how life works No way that's not how life works. Let me explain to you how life works. And you know this is how life works. You tell a kid, listen, if you don't figure out a way to pay rent, you got to kind of figure out what you're going to do. If you're going to live here and rent for me, you're 22 years old, you got to kind of pay 600 bucks a month. No, you don't get a job, you're at a lot. You got to go live with your friends.

You're terrible dad. Fine, you're right, I'm a terrible dad. You're a terrible renter. You never pay rent. What are you able to do with you? Go figure life out. That kid leaves. He does some stuff that he wants to retaliate against that. Smokeswi does a little coke, goes out there as X to C. That's everything he can to trash his dad. He's going to eventually get a job. And if he doesn't get a job and ruins his life, the father couldn't have done anything about that in the first place.

That's on the kid. The kid has to eventually figure out a way to survive. So that prostitute will figure out a way to make money. She doesn't have to go that route. Capitalism works. It's the laws that get people to do things that hurt others because the laws allowed that to happen. So let's look at a little bit of American history.

I agree that capitalism works. But at the end of the American Revolution, the Continental Congress, and what became the Congress, were very concerned because the revolution was really about the East India Company. It was more than the crown, but the crown was very dependent

on the East India Company, the crown of England. And so they passed a law that said, no company, nobody could get a corporate license, a corporate charter, unless they could prove that they're going to serve a public interest. And charter lasted for only 10 years. At the end of the 10 years, you had to go back and prove that to show them, demonstrate that you had proved to serve a public interest, and then you could maybe get another charter. Also, in there was you could know company could buy another company or sell it soft to another company. Those laws were there to protect us against corporate power

because the founders were very concerned about corporate power because of the Estonia company. Those laws continued for 100 years, almost about 100 years, until John D. Rockefeller came along. He wanted to drill for oil in New Jersey and Delaware. He says, I can't drill for oil. I can't have a 10 years. It takes a lot longer to drill for oil.

They got to be able to buy out these other companies that are competing with me. It's the only way we can get oil. So he went to the legislature of New Jersey first and later Delaware. He said, if you change the law so that I can have unlimited powers, I'll give a lot of campaign money to you. And that has continued. It's grown and grown and grown to the point where corporations and their owners have so much power or politicians. Now, we can argue all you want about the prostitutes and the and the John we can argue about Who's it fault is that the politicians or is it the people that are bribing the politicians basically?

They're offering them these incredibly lucrative positions when they leave or even while they're there Campaign financing and then when they leave if you don't get elected We'll give you a great job as a lobbyist or if you did get elected when you want to retire, you're gonna have a great job. Who's to blame for that? Yeah, I tell you it's the law creator. The person I crease the laws. It's not the person that that bribes the law. You don't have to take the bribe. No, I did that the win other countries and I was and I took the bribe myself. So I gotta tell you sometimes you don't feel like you really get a choice.

Fine, let's just say sometimes you really don't think you have a choice. Your story is an extreme story when somebody comes to you and tell you it's your life and you have an infant child at that time. So I totally get the threat that you are in a situation like that. Let me go to a different angle with your under story here. Let's go a complete different area and see what angle you would take with it. Okay. Today, let's talk about today. What's going on with Ukraine and Russia? On one end, Biden's talking about the fact that, a Russia's gonna attack Ukraine, Russia's gonna attack Ukraine, Russia's gonna attack Ukraine. Ukraine Prime Minister's like, stop saying that.

You're scaring the hell out of my people. What does it matter with you? On a call to Biden, okay. So, when I saw that going on, the first person I thought about was you. I'm not kidding with you, the first person I thought about was you. I'm thinking of going to Ukraine actually.

Okay, so then maybe you're going there to do some business, which, so first person I thought about was you. I said, I said, I said, I wonder how John reads this story. Did they today got reads this story, said, oh my gosh John reads this story. The day-to-day guy reads the story, I said, oh my gosh, Russia's gonna go in there and take whatever they want from Ukraine. And it's gonna suck.

And then maybe somebody that's a little bit more educated, that's completely something else. Maybe somebody else that's a little bit more educated and follows news a little bit more and knows, well, here's what's really going on over there. And maybe somebody that's a little bit skeptical with Biden talking about the fact that he had dealings with Ukraine,

and he's made money from Ukraine, and a big guy and all that other stuff. I say, I wonder what, how John looks at this, because I know John politically, which way you lean. I know, which way you're politically. But I also know, as much as whatever side I lean politically, left, right, center, registered, independent, I still sit there and say, Which is whatever side I lean politically left right center registered independent. I still still sit there and say, huh?

Would Trump have contacted Russia to help him with the election? What chances do I think that would happen? Huh? That's pretty interesting because everyone's talking about it now. And this Adam guy, shift made it. There is certain, you know, you know, no question about it, there's evidence that there was collusion with Russia. Like, oh, shit, he just said it down. And then this and this and that. And then the dossier came out,

it was set up by Hillary Clinton, 35 million bucks. And then Durham comes back with the investigation, Mueller spent 40 million. This can only need a three million. Oh, shit, it was all Hillary the entire time. She's the mastermind behind it. What a freaking dirty way of doing it. So you do to the other person and you tell the world that that person is doing what you're doing to them, they're doing it to you. You really are a con man at the highest level. So from your end, give us all potential scenarios of what's going on with Ukraine, Russia. Let's see if you're going to be open about it instead of maybe being selective and just giving us the side that you want to give us. Only things going on there. I just came from NASA in the Bahamas for our

teaching of course. NASA was the pirate capital of the world at one time, Pirate Republic. But you know the pirates never, they didn't want to attack other ships particularly. Why they had that big flag with the skeleton crossbows? It was scared of the ship out of them, the ships that were coming up. And most of the ships knew that if they just gave up, they would have to lose whatever the Pirates wanted that was on their ship, but nobody would be killed.

It was the flag, the flag, the fear, the Pirates would appear on the deck, semi-naked or maybe naked looking very fierce and so on. I think Russia is doing that on Ukraine. I think Russia is standing on the edge of Ukraine, waiting that that jolly Roger, Scullern Crossbow and flag. And it's trying to negotiate. It does not want Ukraine to become part of NATO. It's trying desperately to bring people here. It's been very successful, incidentally. And now, the heads of many countries are talking to Putin.

They wouldn't have before. So in a way, they're getting their way in terms of getting everybody to talk to them. The United States is getting all upset and involved in it. And certainly Biden is wanting to look very strong. It's an election year. And he's wanting to look strong. So he's making it sound as though Russia's

absolutely going to take Ukraine. Who knows? But I was speaking at a conference in Russia in 2017, along with Putin, both speaking at the conference, I get to know his top economic advisor, Sergei Glashov, very well. He and I flew a desert stand together and spoke there. You know that the sense I got is that Putin is a very shrewd operator. He's very, very clever. And he knows the world pretty well.

And so he's trying to get whatever he can out of this. He's using the leverage of his troops on the border to get talked with all kinds of people, to get recognized. He loves to be on the front page. He's getting on the front page a lot. Will they actually attack Ukraine or not? I have no idea. But I do know that we are, the United States and many other countries are feeding into his hands.

You don't think there's anything else going on there? That's politics behind closed doors that we don't know. Oh, there's lots of stories behind the stories, for sure. I mean, any potential like, what if, what if, it could be maybe this, it could be this, it could be that. What are some things you would speculate if somebody hired you to investigate this? Well, I think it could be part of it is that Putin is trying

very hard to win friends with China. He sees that China is going to probably control a third of the world's economy in the next ten years. That's the way it's headed. Russia is a country that's kind of left out. At the moment, you've got China and the United States are center-stage right now. They're duking it out, so to speak. And Russia's left on the outside, so Putin is struggling very hard to get back in there

So you think that's the only thing you think the only thing is the fact that Putin is trying to get back in there And he's trying to get closer to China You don't think there's anything else that's going on that's skeptical from our end Well, you obviously have some idea about that. I actually don't I don't have anything I'm asking you because you you're the guy for example if I talk to a divorce attorney And I'll say hey give me the 10 reasons why people get a divorce a divorce attorney's done hundreds of divorce is gonna be like Well, number one at the top is infidelity. Okay, number two You know their high school sweetheart

So they did it because she got pregnant early and he had to make it look good and say, okay, number three is because he used to be a broke, now he's famous and he's the number four. The divorce attorney is going to be able to speculate all these different reasons, right? That people get a divorce. I'm asking the economic hitman to say, why would something like this take place? Let me go to a different level. I want you to be creative, because I know you're very creative very creative. Your strength is being very, very creative, John. If let's just say, you took a half a million dollars from the people that met with you at, you know, in. 1.7. That's a lot of money, right? You didn't buy Ferrari, by the way, good for you.

Sure does. You should probably would have30 million today if you would about what. But let's just say you got a call from somebody at the US government and they said, John, forget about the 1.7 million. We'll double that. And they represent a consulting firm. And it's consulting firms. We can call it JB and Associates, whatever you want to call it.

Okay. And their specialty is construction. And they call you, they say, hey, John, we'll give you 3.4 million dollars. There's a guy that's a podcaster. We cannot stand. We would love anything to destroy this guy and get him off air. If you pull it off, we'll give you the 1.7 million upfront, we'll give you another 1.7 million, once you get them off, how would you do it? So if you were offered a number like that, which is kind of cool, you can go

to the Amazon and buy three alligators, you can go freaking, I don't even know a lot of shit with that, right? How would you, I mean obviously nothing like this is, you can go freaking, I don't even know a lot of shit with that, right? How would you, I mean obviously nothing like this is going on in America today. I'm just saying if there was a podcaster, that's a very big podcaster and it gets more views than CNN, Fox, MSNBC combined per week. Let's just say there's a guy like that out there.

It does not happen, but let's just say this, how would you destroy this guy's life if somebody offered you 3.4 million to get him off air? How would you do it? Well, that probably the first of all curious What I'm a peer on a show and and and and make him look you know like he doesn't really know what he's talking about So you would go on a show that was that we a star. Okay good. Yeah, and You know, they would probably let the air out of the tires of this Ferrari if he had one That's the soon-to-this guy.

He doesn't have a Ferrari. He drives a Dodge Ram. Well, I would buy him a Ferrari. You would buy him a Ferrari? I don't think he cares about it. But honestly, what do you do to this guy? Because we're living in a time where I think your model is not as effective today as it was 50 years ago.

Absolutely. But it is effective in different ways because today it's not an economic. You'd be a character assassination. So how would you rule it? So today what you do to social media. So what do you do? You hire some really good social media people to go after this guy and create all kinds of lies about him based, based on truth.

A little bit of truth here. A little bit of manipulation. A little bit of manipulation of the truth. And you go after him and whatever way you can. It would depend on the guy that, can you get him to really expose himself? Can you get him to get really angry? What can everybody love him?

He's loved by you, but all his follow-up. Maybe you can get him to use one of the words that we're not supposed to use anymore. So that's one way to do it. Yeah, get him. But what if you find that and then the opposition comes back and says, well, how it's turned said this and Joe Biden used the word and this person used the word.

So then what's your next move if that happens? What do you do then? What do you do then, John? I need your help, John. You're the economic hit, man. I'm trying to figure this puzzle out and I'm bleeding onto you. I think I don't have your level of education. I know the guys.

You don't take care of them. I know. But I think the ultimately the point that you're making at is that whatever John's answers are, they are what they are, but these conversations are taking place. No, you're basically set. Adam,'t want to i'm i'm on a serious note yeah i am a relying on his ability to be creative to tell us if somebody were to do something like that how you go about doing it that's what i'm trying to

get from john and i don't know john's giving us the answer i think john's plane is safe right well no i think john doesn't know because because i don't know this business for a long the answer. I think John's playing it safe right now. Well, no, I think John doesn't know, because I've been out of this business for a long time. I'm a writer now, but I mean, no, seriously. But I do know that today, character assassination is such an amazing thing, and there's people that specialize in it. I guess, truly, if I were in that position, I would hire one of those people

to do whatever they do, if I were in that position, I would hire one of those people to do whatever they do. If I really wanted to do that. But I think, you know what? I think, beyond all that, I would really have to look at, why am I trying to do this? Money. You said some people are, you can be bought. Yeah, about $3.4 million. I'm trying to get somebody to call you

and give you that $3.4 million if you can do this. Yeah, but $3.4 million. I'm trying to get somebody to call you and give you that $3.4 million if you can do this. Yeah, but maybe I don't want to, maybe the money isn't worth it to me anymore. And maybe what's the point? Why, why, why, I guess I'd have to ask, why do we want to get this guy off the air? You want to get this guy off the air? Because he puts people on that he interviews

that call you out and expose you. And the people in power are sick of it. Because all the manipulation about masks and all this hypocrisy where Mayor Garcetti says, hey, whenever I take pictures without a mask on, I hold my breath. I literally peed my pants when he said that in an interview and then he's at the Super Bowl without a mask on ever and all these celebrities that say, we should put masks on. Kids then next day are going to have to wear masks, but they don't. And this guy talks about it and he's kind of undermining the White House.

And that's not cool. So we have to figure out a way to silence this. Isn't that part of democracy? But not today because today is all about censorship and character assassination. It's a business model that's worked very well the last two decades. I don't know if you've been following it. It's a very effective strategy. Yes, it is.

It's a very effective strategy. But, it is a very effective strategy. But I know we would like to have a democracy where you and I can talk, where you can go do your own podcasts and say, Pat's full of shit. And I think Patrick is linked to the show, whatever you want to talk about me. Great.

And let people decide and say, I agree with John. And I think the Jaguar's real representation of honesty. And I don't like Pat, what he has to say. But they have to make that decision. Right. I'm team Tiger, your team Jaguar. Slightly different. Let me ask you a different question down. Here's a different question. This is your world. You can't tell me you don't know, John. You can't play the, I will not follow in that story. Pat, Pat. I just recently heard you talking about how you never make promises. You're gonna say you can't do something if you don't. I'm gonna play your game.

I respect your integrity. I agree completely with you. You don't offer something that you can't do. You don't want that. This is why I know you like Omar Torihoz as much as you do. I know you like him as much as you do. So let me read you what just happened this week. I don't know if you follow or not.

No one knew I'm sure you're not, but you know, some stuff's been happening this week. Some crazy stuff happened this week. I've been in the bar. I'm in the bar. That's your perfect alibi, Charlie. Perfect. Alibi.

And you know, and I want you to know that the sharks, I was teaching a little homeless at a Hindu ashram. So you can imagine how much news I was there. You can't even get a cup of coffee there. I'm sure you're not following this. Is that what they're following? Let me read this story. Let me read this story.

Yeah. Clinton campaign paid to infiltrate Trump Tower, White House servers to link Trump to Russia. Okay, now who would do such a thing? Because she's a very, you know, she's always been known as a sweetheart. So lawyers for the Clinton campaign paid a technology company to infiltrate servers

belonging to Trump Tower and later the White House in order to establish an inference and narrative to bring to government agencies a Lincoln Donald Trump to Russia filing from special counsel John Durham says okay and for the last three four years the Durham country yes let me go and for the last four years everybody's been saying Durham's gonna find nothing. Durham's gonna find nothing. Durham's gonna find nothing. Well he did right okay. Durham also writes that during former Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Susman's trial, the government will establish that among the internet,

data tech executive one, and as associate exploited, was Domain, name system DNS, internet traffic pertaining to a particular healthcare provider, Trump Tower, Donald Trump's Central Park West Department building, and the executive office of the president of the United States. So John Durham is saying that Hillary Clinton essentially hired a company to have a link to Russia, even though he wasn't doing it to say he is, it's a setup.

Now as a person who's a former economic kid, like yourself, who you've gone and you've sat them with prime ministers and you've said, if you don't do this, things are not going to be good for you. Can you see anybody deceptive enough in politics that would ever do such a thing to our former president, Donald Trump? Absolutely not.

We have a clean system here in the United States. Why would we even consider that anybody would do something so dastardly? Yeah, I figured you're going to say that because the level of nobility in our politicians is just incredible. Right? Semi-Saint status. Now, here's what I did. I still want to get your thoughts on this. I want you to type in Durham. What do you want to put? Durham investigation, okay? and then put Durham investigation, and that's it, that's all I want you to put, take the rest of it out,

and then go to news, type in news, okay, so watch this. What does it do that way? Go back to all, go back to all at the top. All right, can you make it a little bit bigger so we can read everyone how they titled it? So your favorite words, CNN uses, the same word they use against you. Special counsel Durham alleges Clinton campaign lawyer use data to raise, if you can click on that so I can read the rest of the title, to raise suspicious about suspicions about Trump.

Now go back and let's read the next title. The next one is from New York Post. X-D-N-I, Radcliffe, expects more indictments in Durham's Russia Gate probe. Fox News says Clinton campaigned pay-to-infiltrate Trump Tower, White House Service linked to Trump. To the Hill, Durham alleges cyber analysis, exploited access to Trump White House, New York Times, court filing started a fewer and right wing outlets,

but their narrative is off track. Can you go to the Wall Street Journal, which is an independent source, that just happened, WS, there you go, Trump really was spied on, okay? And people trust Wall Street Journal because it's typically in the center. That's an opinion piece though.

Yeah, I know it is an opinion piece. I read that as well, but. So what is going on? I tell you what's going on, so. So there's four pillars of the economic hitman strategy I've been writing about this. The Chinese New Zealanders, we got it.

We'll get into it. All right, so the first is fear. Fear of another country, fear of whatever. The second is debt. The third is debt loans, fear debt. The third debt anxiety over insufficiency. We don't have enough. We need to tell our oil to the other company so we can have better education, so on and so forth.

And the third is divide and conquer. And as time's gone on, these things have changed. So during the early times, and those four pillars have been there for that. Say these four again and others fear debt debt. Exiting over insufficiency, dividing conquer. Right. And those have been around for a couple of thousand years

that they've been using one way or another. Yeah. And in the past, most of our history was mainly fear and it was actual invasions or fear of invasions. Like the old pirate thing, the Jolly Roger going up. But what we're really getting into these days is the last one, which is divide and conquer. And right now in the United States, we're having this incredible experience of divide and conquer. So the Republicans and the Democrats will never agree on things. I mean,

it's just like, it's a very incredible tactic that's making America appear to the world as highly dysfunctional. And that's what's happening. On the other hand, the, let's call it the autocratic, whatever you want to call it, governments like China, are looking very good to a lot of other countries, in Latin America and Africa and so on, because they can accomplish something. And I think that's, that's actually why, why Trump was so popular for one of the reasons, because he seemed as though he was moving on a track where he would take command, he would, he would do that kind of stuff. So I think what we're saying here is that divide and conquer. It's like Hillary's doing this, Trump's doing that, the Republicans are doing this, the Democrats are doing that.

It's a breakdown of a system. Yeah, but there's a difference. John, there's a difference. Here's a difference. And both of you guys are more on the same side than where I'm at with this, because I'm very skeptical about what this is all about. Here's the difference.

John, not a single outlet needed any information to go out there for three years, talk about Trump was linked to Russia. They needed nothing was confirmed for three and a half years. That's what they convinced America, that's what it was. They had nothing. There was no allegedly. It was, it is.

Certainty. It's happening. He's with Russia. He's team Putin. He's Putin's puppet. Everybody said it was certainty. America believed. No.

No. You want me to go play the greatest hits? You want me to bring you the greatest hits? Well, you don't think that's what was happening? I don't think all of America agreed by any means. Oh, yo, of course America didn't believe, because America doesn't trust mainstream media, of course. But what I'm saying to you is 99% of media,

that's all they talked about. That's right. That's all they talked about. And they convinced the people, a lot of them, that this was a real thing going on. Now, here's the thing. Trump hadn't done, that this was a real thing going on. Here's the thing. Trump hadn't done any of this stuff. Right.

Okay. A lot of this stuff. Okay. Allegedly. Yeah. Yes, but you know that, so it's a huge distraction. So what are we really dealing with in the world today? We're dealing with a very dire circumstance that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that on digress, John. No. I'm not. You're digressing. I'm right on point with Durham. You're digressing. You're going to complete a different place, right? No. Where I'm going to is the idea that the United States is locked in a battle with China. Are economic hitman strategy, they're economic hitman strategy?

Yeah, then Hillary's team China. Is that what you're saying? OK, I'm saying all of this is distracting us from that. That's not the point of that. No, no, no, let's stay on top of it. I agree with you. I agree with you that China's winning. I don't disagree with you.

And what are we doing? We're getting distracted by these things. So we're getting such a great place. We're getting such a great team. I don't agree with you. And I'm not. Also getting distracted by the mask thing, the vaccination thing, the shrews, so many things.

Well, that's like saying that we can't do two things at once. And there's a lot of things that we're going to be doing at once. The China thing, like for me, for instance, the bigger distraction, I think, is Ukraine to China. I think we should stop focusing on, I think Ukraine is a lot of smoking mirrors. You brought up that Putin is maybe allied with China. I think that's a European thing that EU NATO, they need to take over what's going on Ukraine. I don't think the United States needs to mess with it all. What I will say about this, and I very much was guilty of the Trump narrative, because

for years and years and years, Trump, Trump, Putin, puppet, everything Pat. but what they're saying here is actually a scandal of the highest proportion if it's true. If this is true, this is way bigger than watergate. For years and years and years, they were basically shitting on Trump saying that he was Putin's puppet and believe me, Trump did nothing to help that with his secret meetings and You know, Russia if you're listening and all that he didn't do anything to help him But basically if this turns out to be true and right now That seems like they're throwing this guy Michael Sussman under the bus

Don't be surprised if he turns into the next Jeffrey Epstein wing wink so wink. So, but if this is true, and Hillary did do this, and did plant what's the use of the word infiltrate Trump Tower, and did put that in there, and then she tweeted about it a couple days before the election. If this turns out to be true, this is Watergate of the highest proportion, and you know what, as much as it pains for me to say this, Trump might have been right. He might have been actually correct when he said that they were spying on his campaign. Because one of the last interviews he did with 60 minutes,

what's the ladies name? She's like, come on, President Trump. You know that's not true. He's like, no, it is. Barbara Stall, I believe, is her name. I'm not a Trump fan. And part of the reason I'm not a Trump fan is because I've been spoon fed this misinformation about Trump. They're about about Russia, much like most of America. But if it turns out that Hillary actually did do this, she's got some explaining to do.

Yeah, so let me ask you. And at last point, it's not just me sixty six percent of democrats according to this poll sixty six percent democrats want Hillary investigated overrush again so it's pretty interesting what's happening out there and last thing if i put into youtube youtube because articles are a lot easier especially with mainstream media to

write put it out there born it's done you put it YouTube, it's only Fox News that's covered this story. So either Fox News is just doing what they do, riling up the base, or they're actually the only news outlet that is actually covering this. So am I making sense here? Yeah, but let me ask you about that. So what is the significance of this in a long run? What, where, what's the potential outcome? Sorry, John. what's the potential outcome?

What's the potential outcome? Are you kidding me? So let me ask you a question. Do you think the billionaires who are illegally using crony capitalism methods to hurt people should they be held accountable? Wait, this is a diversion from the question. I'm about to get to your answer though.

Do you think they should be held? Because that bothers you a lot. What these billionaires are doing. You're bothered with the three people that have 50% of wealth, which you're saying, more than the bottom 50% of wealth, right? That bothers you. Yes.

Okay. The same way that bothers you, this is the ultimate, ultimate manipulative because you're saying, who cares? If some not the same. No, I know it. I'm about accountability. I did not say who cares.

I say, where is, what is the logical outcome of this? Of this? If she is doing that, she needs to be held accountable and go to jail. Truth, accountability, and that's what she did because whoever is scared to trap an expert in the same thing, the same thing if a Trump did do it. Yeah, you can't.

Truth, accountability, and penalty. If he did collude with Russia, that's exactly what had been accountable to him. True. But the same thing should be for Clinton. Right. If it turns out to be her. To agree.

Truth, accountability, and what's the penalty? And we're on the same thing with lobbyist, crony capitalism, taking payments, all that. Yeah. No. Accountability is the key. That's the main thing. Because totally, you know how people say,

Transparency. You know how people say stuff like, I don't trust, my vote means nothing my vote Yeah, if there's no accountability of people like my vote means nothing. No, I totally agree with you I mean both of these yeah, that's that's why I asked so what is the final outcome of this? Can we get at the truth and if we can get at the truth Will the system punish whoever's whoever's I don't think it will. I, that's the problem. That's part of the problem.

I don't think it will. That's part of the problem. And as you said, as Adam says, if it's, if Trump's the problem, he should be held accountable. If there is a problem, she should be held accountable. But will it be held accountable, even if we do to scale up which one is the problem? Well, the reality isn't this is what Pat always says,

that what 12% controls America. So, you know, there's 42 two percent they're gonna for vote republican regardless there's forty four percent they're gonna vote democrat regardless there's a couple percentage they're gonna vote for Ralph nader and the green party in joe jogger and send the libertarian whatever but there's ten to twelve percent usually in the midwest rust belt they're gonna see this and say i don't know that turns out i was lied to and that's you Belt, they're gonna see this and say, I don't know, it turns out I was lied to.

And that's why I think that Republicans are gonna steamroll in the midterms. So we'll see. But I think regardless if they do still, like what's the outcome we're talking about outcomes here, if the Republicans do basically trample Democrats in the midterms, which I think a lot of people expect them to do, I mean, that's just politics.

Yeah, almost always happens. Exactly. And now Republicans will control Congress. We're going to be hearing a lot more about this. Yeah, sure. Yeah, and the question is, how do we really get at the truth? And it's not an easy one to answer these days. I'm not sure that it ever has been, but I think in a way,

it's tougher than ever. I want to, I think we're getting close to the end here. So I want to raise a subject that I'd like to have you deal with at some point. And that is that if there was a huge UFO hovering over us, aliens getting ready to attack us, what would China, Russia, the United States, India, Brazil? What would we do?

This is the movie Independence Day, I believe, is what you're describing. I don't know whether it's it. But what would we do? Would we come together? Do you think it detects us? Yeah. Not so they did an independence day.

Yes, and Smith. And I would like to say, that's the? Do you think to protect us? Yeah. Sure. So they did an independence day in Walsh, Smith. And I would like to say, that's the old movie now, isn't it? God. Yeah, but it's exactly what you're saying, is that? Yeah. So I would, so I would, if we had a common enemy. Yeah. Right? So I would like to suggest right now that the way we human beings are looking at the world as alienated us from the world, we are the aliens.

We've said that we are apart from not a part of nature. We are supreme over. It's human supremacy over nature. And as a result, there's huge problems that are sweeping the planet today. So my suggestion, and what I'm writing, and what I'm trying to go with this book, is that there's an economic hitman system that the United States has perpetuated, and now China is learning from our mistakes and our successes, and they're out doing us in it. The hope, I think, for the world is that if we can all kind of define ourselves as the aliens, and it's not humans, it's our perception

of what it means to be successful humans. It's this idea that, yeah, you've got to throw one more pass, make one more touchdown, like one more billion. There's so much that goes into this. But what it's doing is it's threatening, you're a newly born child's life. You know, what kind of a world can we expect? We've got to work together.

So we can disagree, I think the Chinese and the Russians and the Indians, we can disagree on so many things, but let's agree that we're gonna come together to fight the aliens. Tell the get it. The problem here with that example is the alien is on the inside. And when the aliens on the inside, you have a shit show.

The call's coming from that in the house, sure. The problem is that we need to hold people accountable for us to have a little bit more trust and the fact that we can unify. I think accountability leads to increase of trust. By the way, as much as you and I banter every time we're together, you have no idea how much I look forward to the next summer together. I'm being serious with you. I enjoyed every single, frequent time we talk. Every time we do this, I enjoyed.

Are you in town or are you leaving today? I'm leaving tomorrow. You're leaving tomorrow? Are you okay if I treat you to a really good restaurant tonight and you can go with whoever you're going to. I got your bills. Is that okay with you? Sure.

Afterwards, I want to tell you about where I want you to go. You're going to enjoy yourself when you go there. I want to say one thing, Pat, but I was saying to some of your staff outside there. I love the way you do things. I love your show because I think you are one of the few people that really is trying to get it the truth And you come at it from sometimes an angle that I don't particularly like But I like the fact that that's what you're doing and I Appreciate that that means a lot coming from

I appreciate I thank you for that that Compton and I'm trying to say good side. We don't need a I will receive it. So guys, a couple of things. Number one, the latest book, Touching Jaguar. Put the link below for them to go get it. If you end up buying Touching Jaguar, don't do it without buying the new confessions of economic hitman,

you have to read that book. If you've not read it, I know it's an older book that did well many, many years ago. You just got to know what this business model is so order touching jaguar in order to do convention confessions of economic hit man with that being said john thank you so much for coming out folks were doing it again next Thursday

this is i this Thursday i think this Thursday's jason miller who was part of who was part of trumps camp part of uh... trumps administration and the founder and cio of getter of getter, which is the one that Joe Rogan talked about and one day they got 500,000 new followers. Okay, for those of you guys that are following via Tim in the direction I would go on, one of the new shows that we just launched or today, which I'm very, very excited about,

it's called Perfilis. Perfilis profiles, Perfilis, we go to small business owners who are from Colombia, who are from Cuba, who are from business owners who are from Colombia who are from Cuba who are from Argentina who are from many Different places Spanish specifically and they're sharing their testimony of how they got here It's a very I had my I had Melva watch this with my dad Melva started crying She was watching one is such an emotional episode if you watch this and we're releasing the first one today small business These are not billionaires. These are not millionaires. These are small business owners that are trying to feed their families.

I want you to watch a 30-second preview. We'll be launching to Tadeon Value Tennis Spanish. Go ahead, Tyler. You will find the first episode today being launched right now on Value Taiman. Esponial, Tyler put the link to the channel where people can go find it as well and we'll be doing these regularly. And if you know anybody that's a small business owner Hispanic South Florida that would like to be considered for the next per-per-fielders send us a message at infoadvietamon.com we'd love to have a conversation with them and see if they can

make it on the per-fielders program here. John thank you you, folks. We will see you guys on Thursday with Jason Miller. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye.