PBD Podcast - 'The Gadfather' - Gad Saad | PBD Podcast | Ep. 164

Starting point is 00:00:00 Are you out of your mind? Here's the debate. You're upset. They're saying we believe. So folks, we have a special guest here with us. Some people call him the Godfather, some call him the Godfather. I call him Gatsod. It's great to have him on. We did a special guest here with us. Some people call him the Godfather. Some call him the Godfather. I call him Gatsod. It's it's great to have him on. We did a podcast before but it was zoomed today. We haven't in flesh Was having a chance to speak to him and his wife in a back and learning about the history of the soccer tricks But it's not even that man. You know, you just set off camera that you lost 86 pounds. You look like you belong in Hollywood. Oh, look at that. You look fast.

Starting point is 00:00:48 I'm serious. You look like you belong in Hollywood. You just start casting for some movies, man. You're too kind. With the green eyes, the whole facial, you got the whole thing going on. You are so sweet. How you doing?

Starting point is 00:00:59 It is so good to be here. I've been wanting for this to happen. So thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm glad to have you guys have never met in person. Never in person. You guys did have a this to happen. So thank you for having. Yeah, I'm glad you guys have never met Person, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never was like, I'm the man in the relationship. Okay, buddy. He's the bottom. He's the bottom. You say that to Shaq's face, buddy. Oh my God. But so from from Montreal to Miami, and you keep going back to Montreal, and you're not staying in Miami, it's a visit.

Starting point is 00:01:39 So tell us why, obviously, you have an incredible empire. I mean, I'm sorry, you have a great leader in your country. He's a fantastic guy. He's a fantastic guy. He's a fantastic guy. So, why does he keep bringing you back to Montreal? Is it by force? Is there certain things that we don't know about that? That's the sort of thing.

Starting point is 00:01:54 That's the sort of thing. Why does... Tell us about it. No, honestly, it's because of the golden handcuffs of being a ten-year professor. So, you know, when... So, for those, for your listeners who may not know, ten-year is a wonderful thing, because it allows you to have the protection to be able to do the things that I do. Imagine if the university could have fired me for any tweet or any paper that I published that they didn't

Starting point is 00:02:16 like. So ten-year in spirit is a great thing because otherwise, a reverent professors who are not part of the orthodoxy would never feel comfortable to be able to say the things they want to say. So on that sense, 10 years is great. How do you reach 10 years? And just take it some amount of time, it's some amount of hours? Right, so after you get your first professorship, you have a certain number of years

Starting point is 00:02:36 where you have to build a dossier. The dossier consists of three elements. What have you published? So research, teaching, and service. The most important part is the research. How many papers have you published? How much they've been cited? How influential have you been as an academic? And then it goes in front of a tenure committee and they decide either they're going to fire you. You have one year to leave. So you're not going to be granted tenure or if they grant you tenure, you're permanent

Starting point is 00:03:00 forever. You could never be fired unless you decide to quit. So tenure is, so it's great in that sense, but on the other hand, it makes you risk a versive because if you want to leave, you're always in the backdrop thinking, I've got this professorship for life. And you know, it takes a while to build your academic career. You have to have a lab, you have to have graduate students. So it kind of weighs you down so that even though in spirit, I very much would like to be making the move to the United States. I just got killed with horrific taxes, which we can talk about. It's been about five, six weeks.

Starting point is 00:03:33 I've been walking around in a day's unable to understand how the mathematics of the money that I started with and what I ended up with, how we can go from A to B. So I'm desperate to leave guys, but we have young children, so that even makes me a bit more risk-aversive. If our children were grown already, it would be a lot easier to say, screw 10 year I'm moving to my aunt. That makes sense.

Starting point is 00:03:57 And if you would, you would leave most likely to a South Florida type of location. Oh, 100%. I mean, historically, I would have been a so-called guy. I lived in, I was a professor at University of California, Irvine, for a few years. I have a lot of family there. Every summer, we go back to Newport Beach. This, and in a week, we'll be going back to Newport Beach. But then the taxes

Starting point is 00:04:15 and the walkness in California is not that much better than where I am now in Quebec. And so Texas, of course, and Southern California, I have sort of become. Well, there's like, I don't know, like in Miami we have Little Havana, where all the Cubans hang out. Right. I don't know if it's official,

Starting point is 00:04:30 but here in Hollywood, Florida, I wanna call it like Little Quebec. Is that true? Oh my God, all the French Canadians are down here in the winter. You don't know that? I mean, I know that there are a lot of meckers down here. I didn't know it wasn't that specifically right there.

Starting point is 00:04:41 They're snowbirds, right there. Oh yeah. Every six months. Guy comes up to me at church, he says, you know, Canadians own 500,000 properties in Florida. Yeah, I believe it. Is that right? He says Canadians own,

Starting point is 00:04:51 because he's from Canada, he says, 500,000 properties in Florida. I believe it. By the way, when he's talking about tenure, you know what, the first thing that comes to my mind? You've been very vocal about 20% of the bottom half of teachers, 20% of teachers on the bottom, 30% need to be fired.

Starting point is 00:05:07 Absolutely. How do you grapple that with 10, because all teachers have 10 years of support? What he's saying is very interesting because a guy with his views in a woke environment should get fired in less than five minutes. Well this is when 10 year backfires on them on the woke, but, but here's my question for you. How did the Jordan Peterson get fired and was in the 10 year as well? He didn't get fired. So what happened with Jordan is that when the gender pronoun stuff happened, he actually reached out to me before he became Jordan Peterson

Starting point is 00:05:40 of great fame. And he, he knew of my show. And he knew that I was very irreverent, I was an orthodox car. So he reached out to me, he said, look, you know, I don't think many people are going to be willing to be talking to me, especially in academia, can I come on your show. That's how we became friends. How many years ago was this? This was 2016 maybe? This isn't crazy long ago. No, this is not six years ago. And you're in McGill and he's in what? I'm at Toronto. I studied at McGill for a bit. Then I went to Cornell, but I'm at Concordia. Concordia. There are four universities in Montreal, two French, two English.

Starting point is 00:06:10 I'm one of the two English ones. And he was where? He was at University of Toronto. He didn't get fired. He retired. And I think he retired. I mean, I don't want to speak for him, but I mean, I were very good friends. I know him well.

Starting point is 00:06:23 I think it became untenable for him to stay in academia, especially given the amount of other things he's got on. And in a sense, I face a bit of a similar dilemma, notwithstanding the tenure. I could turn on my laptop and reach 100,000 people, or I could sit in a classroom for 13 weeks and reach 30 kids. And I don't mean to denigrate.

Starting point is 00:06:44 It's teaching is very important. I love it and it's part of my DNA. But at one point when you've got the opportunities that someone like Jordan or myself have, it becomes that much more painful to go through the grind of the daily life of a professor. So the research is still wonderful. I still love the idea of doing scientific research and so on. But the administration, how slow things move, we will hold a meeting to decide on setting up a task force to have a committee to decide on whether we're going to have coffee

Starting point is 00:07:13 and the faculty lounge. So we've just spent six months and probably $500,000 of Professor salary to decide, I mean, literally on whether we're going to have coffee. The coffee task force. The coffee task force. The coffee task force. That sounds very important. Yeah, it's very important.

Starting point is 00:07:27 So it's not like coffee in his offices. So we had that set up a task force here, just to implement coffee. True story. So it's very slow. So for someone like me, very entrepreneurial, very fast-moving, it becomes a bit of a grind. Do you sit there yourself and say, you know, if I stay here and as a 10-year professor, I'm going to make XYZ money.

Starting point is 00:07:49 But if I go run my own thing and light it up, I can make this much money. What am I doing? Why am I putting myself through this? I do think that all the time. I mean, to speak to what we mentioned earlier, you know, I have two main sources of income. I've got my professor's salary and then everything else. And the everything else this past year completely dwarfed my,

Starting point is 00:08:07 so for example, the book royalties came in for the parasitic mind. And all that other money is not taxed at the source. So it goes into my bank account. And then at the end of the year, you have to write those checks. And I mentioned this recently on Joe Rogan's podcast. My wife calls me over on May 2nd.

Starting point is 00:08:25 She says, give me the password to your bank account. I go into my bank account. There are two boxes. The Quebec and Canadian governments are already in my bank account. I enter two large numbers that correspond to the taxes that I owe, and I press send and all the money to tears.

Starting point is 00:08:46 Wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you just say when you go into your bank account? Yes. The government's already in the bank account to say how much of that is there? Yes. What do you mean? So your money's in a private bank or a nationalized bank?

Starting point is 00:08:59 No, it's a private bank. And they still have their hands on the private bank to get in there and tell you this portion is ours Is that they're just making it easy for me to settle what a sweetheart of an old country So I mean just I know somebody right look at that level of nobility exactly Yeah, you know if we were a Nigerian prince scam, right and you lost a thousand dollars or five thousand dollars You'd be pissed now imagine if I it's my words, right, the book, my words, my thoughts, my lived experience in Lebanon, my 30 years fighting walk ideas in academia, but they own

Starting point is 00:09:33 50 something percent of those book royalties. So it's a type of existential rape that's very, very difficult to stand. So I've been literally walking around spewing in venom. Is this the first year where you're paying taxes? Like, like, it's real, real money tax. We have paid this horse. I was just gonna ask that. And in the past, you know, I'm making, so it's 30,000, I'm getting 50,000.

Starting point is 00:09:56 But this year because the book royalties came in, right? On a very successful book, plus the speaking engagements, plus everything, so that final amount that I have to settle, it's literally what people would have as a savings in 10 or times. And it just disappeared. So we went from having money for retirement,

Starting point is 00:10:14 having money to buy a condo in Florida to magically gone. So how do you process that? How do you, in that moment when you're doing it, does it piss you off enough where you want to do something about it or is it kind of like, you know what? It's just something we got to deal with. Oh, much more the former.

Starting point is 00:10:31 I want to hear about it. Look, honestly, I wrote this on Twitter. I said, going through the Lebanese Civil War might have been easier than what happened on May 2nd. And I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but not much. I mean, and we could talk about it if you want. You know, I went through the living room. You felt financially raped.

Starting point is 00:10:49 But in the most intimate of ways, right? Because let's suppose I'm a hedge fund guy. Yes, everybody works hard for their money, but it's funny money, right? I got a bonus, a million dollars, because I did crypto, I did this. This is me sitting down, striking the keyboard, telling my story, right?

Starting point is 00:11:08 I'm selling my personhood, and then the governments, with their, you know, they have a cigar and they're smoking cognac somewhere, and they say, hey, Lebanese Jew boy, 58% is ours, right? I mean, hey, you can, we'll allow you to keep your name on your book,

Starting point is 00:11:24 but come on, the book royalties are ours, you know, for the good of the collective. It's almost like when you sat down to write the book, they were sitting right next to you typing with you. The absolutely. Jesus. It, you know, so it's, it's, it's just, plus all the money that I made extra came from me hustling, right? I have to fly somewhere to give a talk. It's not passive money, right? It's me saying, what else can I do to make more money to advance my family? And then the government says, 58%.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Come on. By the way, that means a $20,000 speaking gig is really only eight grand. Exactly right. $20,000 speaking gig is eight grand. Wow. And that doesn't include if you have to cover the flight food, all the other stuff.

Starting point is 00:12:06 That's a, so I remember one time, I mean, LA, I'm eating in Northridge, mall, we used to go to this one place we'd have lunch on Sundays after church, and one of the girls whose face was always on those, what do you call the bus, bus stop? Bus stop. She was always there.

Starting point is 00:12:22 I'm the realtor, phone them. Everybody knew her for a decade. That's who she was. One day, we're at the restaurant. I'm saying, hey, we don't see your face anymore. It says, yeah, I made a decision. What's that? You know, I was making good money. She was making $300,000 auto-earnings.

Starting point is 00:12:37 And then I started realizing that half of it's going to taxes. And my husband, I just made a decision. It's not worth me working for this much money at much rather stay home. So I just stopped on real estate and I stayed home. It's not worth me doing the work to get half the taxes to be, I said, you're being serious. He says, yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:12:54 We decided to live a smaller life. So taxes made this family that they're not trying to change it, they're not trying to go be the greatest realtor. They're just trying to be a good citizen. They just made a decision and said, yeah, it's just not worth it. It's not worth me working at that level. You're saying it de-centivizes success, greatness,

Starting point is 00:13:14 achievement, all that good stuff. You just say, you know what? I'll just be a housewife. Well, if you think about it in every situation you're in, like even for you to, right now, you know, the conversation when you talk about, should I get married, should I not get married in the mind you're going through, you're high ticket item, you have choices right now, right?

Starting point is 00:13:30 But should you get married? What are you thinking about? What's the incentive for you? This is not a selfish thing. This is how we're wired, right? What's the incentive for me to go bust my ass to so much when I know 58% is going to take that away from me? So, the motivation to create at the highest level goes away

Starting point is 00:13:48 versus in a different situation incentives more. And let me add to this Patrick, that this is just my income. Now in Quebec, we also have sales tax, we have both sales tax and federal tax. So whatever 40% that the government allows me to keep, if I spend anything, they tax me 15% on that. And then property tax, then school tax, then carbon tax, then gas tax. At the end of

Starting point is 00:14:14 the year, I'm left with roughly 30%. Now, let's think about this in one way. Guys, I want you to hear this one more time. Say that one more time for people that maybe weren't fully paying attention on the podcast. Say that one more time for people that maybe weren't fully paying attention on the podcast Say that one more time. Very important. What he just said. Go ahead So if we just do my income tax, I'm down to about 40% of what I made But then whatever is left if I spend money, I'm taxed 15% on that because we get double tax both provincial sales tax and federal sales tax But then that doesn't stop there. Then there is property tax, there is school tax, carbon tax, gas tax.

Starting point is 00:14:49 So by the end of the year, I'm left with about 30%. Now, let's put it another way. If you start working January 1st and you were a pure slave, let's go back to slavery a couple of hundred years ago. From January 1st to December 31st, you work for free, right, for your owner, right? So let's now contextualize that metric in Quebec and Canada. I work for free from January 1st till September. In September, my overlord, Justin Trudeau and his friends say, you are now allowed to keep some of your money.

Starting point is 00:15:24 So it's a level of existential rape. That's difficult to comprehend. Now, here's the thing I was thinking, I was telling my wife, you know what? Maybe my next book will be to write about what just happened to me so that maybe it can weigh, awaken people. And then I thought it could never awaken people because 95% of Canadians and Quebecers benefit from that parasitic Ponzi scheme. By the way, 40% of Canadians from what I read don't pay a single dollar of tax. So I am the guy that keeps I and others like me are the ones that keep the system going. Even when I tweet something on Twitter so that I can complain about what a lot of people

Starting point is 00:16:05 will agree with me and say, my god, it's unbelievable what's happening to you, but others will take the position of stop whining you rich pig. I mean, you know, why don't you share your wealth with with the rest of us who need it, right? So there is a sense of envy and entitlement whereby if I were to try to complain about this, most people would not be on board with me because they benefit from that system. Can I ask you the question? That's that he just put up. The top 10% of earners, board responsibility for 71% of all income taxes paid and top

Starting point is 00:16:37 25% paid, 87% of all the income taxes. And I'm sure you'll find the one that says 40% of Canadians don't pay. The new dash was the top, okay, there's another stat that shows says 40% of Canadians don't pay. Didn't that show the top? Okay. There's another stat that shows that 40% of Canadians don't pay any taxes. Just do a search on that. My question was because Pat asked the question, the beginning of this conversation, was this the first year you've made this, what you call it, like additional income? You're in your mid 50s, give or take?

Starting point is 00:17:00 Yeah, exactly. Okay. And you've been professor for more than three decades. I've made, yes. 28 years. 28. I've made extra income in the past, but, okay, and you've been professor for more than three decades. I've made yes 28 years 20. I've made extra income in the past But it's it falls within the digestible right if you're making $80,000 extra and the government takes 30 40,000 You're like okay, they're raping me a bit more, but this year was the bonanza year This is the year where all of my hard work has finally paid off. And the government said, oh, no, no, no, it's all ours.

Starting point is 00:17:27 So my question is, it took you 57 years to have this level of disgust for taxes. And that's not sarcastic comment. But you've been a professor for almost 30 years and it took you 57 years to be like, oh, I'm gonna throw up in my mouth. But there is a reason for that, right? Because when it's built into your salary,

Starting point is 00:17:47 it's like funny money, right? You just accept that psychologically. It comes out of your paycheck. It comes out of your paycheck, it's invisible. But when it is that whole big chunk that comes in that's not taxed at the source, and then you will write that amount, press send, and all of your savings disappear.

Starting point is 00:18:04 It's psychologically, it's, of course I don't want to. W. Two versus 1099, you have to 1099. But you know, so I'm sitting with Dennis pregrinna's wife, Sue, and we're at their house, and I'm saying, so Dennis, at what point will you leave California? Right. And he says, yeah, it's not out of point right now.

Starting point is 00:18:21 I said, you complain about California, but you ain't leaving. If you don't like it, why don't you leave? So, you know, he's like, wow, it's not at a point right now. I said, you complain about California, but you ain't leaving. If you don't like it, why don't you leave? So, you know, he's like, wow, it's not sad. At what point, give me a number. What tax rate does it need to go to for you to consider leaving? He finally says, yeah, probably around 70%. Okay.

Starting point is 00:18:37 Is there a number that if it got to that you would sit there and because if you're saying 15% state federal tax, carbon, property, eventually your half a million dollar income, your million dollar income, you're really only living up 300,000 dollar income. Say you're 10, your professor salary, I don't know what the number is, say 150 to 200. I'm just giving a number out there. So if you're making 150 to 200, you're making another 800 outside of being a professor. If you only took your 800 and you came to the state of Florida, and I'm not trying to

Starting point is 00:19:10 recruit for governor DeSantis, but if you took the 800 and you drop your tenure, you came to South Florida, and your wife's probably listened to this. So you're 800,000 dollars, you would save an additional, say 25 points. That's 25 points. I see what happens. So that makes up for that. But then you would take that time that you're putting as a teacher, you would make that up in different places by having more exposure. So is it getting to the point

Starting point is 00:19:34 where you're maybe a little bit considering doing something? It is. And I appreciate your intimate questions and I don't mind sharing details of our lives. It's okay. Maybe my university will hear this and maybe get higher salary. I don't mind sharing details of our lives. It's okay, maybe my university will hear this and maybe get higher salary. I don't think so.

Starting point is 00:19:47 They literally have probably a whole floor called the Gatsad problem. Reserved just for me. I think we're there, Pat. And I actually already started speaking to a lawyer who specializes in immigration. I don't know if you guys know this. There's a visa track called the Extraordinary Visa.

Starting point is 00:20:07 Do you know what that is? It's a very, very small number of people who qualify for it. It's, you know, you have to be a well-known professor or you're a Grammy award winning singer or you're an Olympian. Right? And so if you meet certain criteria

Starting point is 00:20:22 and you demonstrate that you meet them obviously and apparently I do, they kind of expedite your something equivalent to a green card. And so we're now looking at doing that so that we can have legal because otherwise, if I don't do that visa, any visa would require for me to be linked to an employer. I'd have to get a professorship here or, you know, Patrick would have to give me a $1 million a year salary to be your... So he's slowly... Let's get a bit of conversation.

Starting point is 00:20:49 Let's get it written up. Let's get it going. Lawyer is getting... So it would have to be... So, but this visa, I can get into the country without any employer, just on the merits of my dossier. And so we have started that process. Got it.

Starting point is 00:21:04 Makes you think, you know, at what point is the pressure, you know, at a place where you're willing to make the move rather than staying there? When I asked Jordan Peterson, I said, Jordan, I said, why are you staying in Toronto? So he says, you know, I'm still staying in Toronto because of different reasons. I said, are you staying in Toronto because one day you want to run for Prime Minister? No, I have no desire. Why don't you want to run? If you think you can, well, no, I think I can do more of an impact on what I'm doing versus being a Prime Minister. I said, I don't know about that. I said, listen, philosophers, great. We'll stick around. But, you know, I think Prime Minister,

Starting point is 00:21:38 presidents, those guys are going to be, you know, somebody that's going to be remembered. Do you think Jordan wouldn't make a good PM in Canada if he chose to want to do that? I think he's too honest. I've been also asked to run for high office and so I'll speak for me but I think it applies to to your question about Jordan. I think all of the qualities that a politician needs to have duplicity, scamming, cheat, macchivalianism, I don't think Jordan and I score very highly on those. So I think we would be chewed up in five seconds. Again, I don't want to speak for him, but for me, I don't think I could function in that ecosystem. And so I think I agree with Jordan that our voices are probably more influential doing what we do here because the political system will simply squash you into

Starting point is 00:22:26 You know saying what they want you to say and I don't think Jordan or myself are willing to play that game So in other words, we have to put up with what's being given to us in regards to politicians That's what we have to deal with so so maybe we need to stop complaining about corrupt politicians because we The good people don't want to run. Is that the right solution? Well, as you remember, you might remember Plato talked about philosopher kings, right? That democracy was too important to be given to the common person. You needed the philosophers to run things.

Starting point is 00:22:57 And so that's, I think what you're talking about. It should be someone like Jordan Peterson, who's running the country. But regrettably in today's world, people like Jordan Peterson are too honest to succeed in such a parasitic world. And by the way, I remember that conversation right here a few months ago. You asked that question multiple times. So have you considered and then you revisited what you think?

Starting point is 00:23:16 You know why I'm asking that question because if the people that the people wouldn't mind running, don't run, then you lose the right to complain about the people who do. So you don't have the right to complain about it. Because I don't know if you know something that I'm saying. So we're sitting there and saying,

Starting point is 00:23:37 oh, look at these guys, they're saying do something about it. Yeah, no, it's either run and create some real change and policies, or don't run and stop complaining about the people that are corrupt and just say, Justin's a great guy. Okay, and he's the best guy that we got today. But to me, I may be wrong, you can't do both.

Starting point is 00:23:59 You can't sit there, now listen, I'll give you a flip side of it as well. The other side of it for me would be the following. Here's the flip side of it. If Jordan Peterson, or in this situation, would just use in Jordan, but pick anybody, you know, whoever that has that kind of influence, right? If a Jordan Peterson-esque type of an individual said, no, I'm not running. No problem.

Starting point is 00:24:23 type of an individual said, no, I'm not running. No problem. Why don't you create an academy and go work with the current 25 year olds and prepare them for the next year, 10 years so they can run for office and teach them all the McAvillian stuff that they're gonna go through. Have them read prints, have them read 40 laws of power, have them read all the stuff that's gonna happen.

Starting point is 00:24:46 And a given strategy is challenge and push them, put them against each other, pin them against each other, give them a topic to play for it against it, argue against it, something they believe in, but argue how the other person would argue against it. And then try to find the leaks and here's Liz, and if you look at this article, look how this person handled this debate,

Starting point is 00:25:02 then shape their mindsets 10 years from now. So then in 10 years, you got a roster of 20 people that can run. But to me, it's one of the two. Did you say Obama did something like that? I remember he was so sorry about that. I was speaking at Ritz Krochen. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:25:15 2000 African American kids in the early 20s. Good looking men like I'm talking and the way they spoke, I'm like, you sound like you could run. You say they were sharp, fresh. Three body was sharp. So I go on to sneak peek, I'm like, you sound like you could run. You said they were sharp. Press. Free body was sharp. So I go on to sneak peek.

Starting point is 00:25:27 I'm like, oh my god. Imagine 2000 Barack Obama's in Michelle in the room. And I said, what's going on here? So this is Michelle and Brock are going to be here. This is an organization that's helping develop the next African-American leaders that may one day become leaders of the free world and presidents, but they were lawyers. There's a lot of lawyers in that room.

Starting point is 00:25:50 So you know what I said? I said, good for you. That's what you're supposed to do. So there's not a, you know, this whole concept with the Academy, the book that I'm publishing right now that we're going through. The people like that can do such a great job. Because there is one thing to do videos and we're glued to the screen and somebody watches,

Starting point is 00:26:10 oh my God, Gad, what a great argument. Okay, so this is the satire approach if you wanna go this angle, great. Oh my God, look at this Jordan Peterson, great. But then there is, all right, come into the room, close the door, get rid of all the cameras, leave your phones outside, let's talk. Here's how you handle this.

Starting point is 00:26:29 There's difference between that and that. What you're talking about used to be called universities, right? I mean, right? I mean, the way we train people in critical thinking and in debate skills and in evidence-based decision-making, we used to be called the university and in a sense that's what I've been railing against for the past, you know, almost 30 years. We had these institutions, right? And you know, when I first started my career, I'm not sure if we discussed this when I first came on your show remotely. So what I do is I apply evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology to study

Starting point is 00:27:05 human behavior, right? Well, when I saw how social scientists would respond to my work, where they didn't like the fact that I'm applying biology, right? Biology was great to explain the behavior of the mosquito and the zebra and the dog. But what do you mean you're applying biology to explain consumer behavior? What are you? Some kind of Nazi. And so that's when I first was exposed to this idea that even very educated people, my fellow professors, could be parasitized by stupidity. And so that really was the genesis of how I eventually wrote the parasitic mind because originally it started in my scientific career where I would see these incredibly brilliant people who would completely lose it at what I thought was a terribly banal point, which is, of course, humans are driven by their hormones,

Starting point is 00:27:49 by their physiology. I mean, who doesn't think that that's feasible. But yet in the social sciences, we have erected these edifices of knowledge for the past 100 years, completely devoid of any biology. So you could study anthropology, sociology, economics, you could be in the business school where I'm housed, and the word biology is never mentioned once. But how could you study things like economic decision-making, employee psychology, employer psychology, consumer psychology, without ever mentioning biology? So, you know, the things that you're hoping for, the academy that you're looking for, we used to be called the university, and I'm hoping that we will return regain

Starting point is 00:28:28 the power of the university because we've truly lost it. I don't know. I don't know if it's going to go back to that. But I think what could happen a lot is if individual academies are created. Yeah. I think if individual academies are created. By the way, that's when you go and talk to, like let's just say the Syrian community. I'm a Syrian, right? We're talking, your wife is Armenian. I'm Armenian, so we're talking Armenian.

Starting point is 00:28:53 And I like how your wife was translating everything I was saying. She's like, this is what he means. He just said this, his mother is Armenian, his dad's a Syrian. Please go ahead, tell the people how beautiful she is. Go ahead. No, listen, you're a very good looking guy, and I told you that you look like your Omar Sharif,

Starting point is 00:29:07 type of, you know, guy that's gotta be in Hollywood, your wife's trapped at gorgeous. She's beautiful. So good for you. Congratulations. You gotta look me together. By the way, that was your birthday gift, sweetie, from last year.

Starting point is 00:29:18 You just, you just got a huge shout out from Patrick David. That's your gift. She's beautiful. It was a great meeting here. No, but so, so you're sitting there and you're thinking like this whole thing with Academy, right? You're saying, okay, what if, you know, she's a Syrian, you know,

Starting point is 00:29:33 our meeting where they're talking to, I'm talking to these Syrian folks and they run a church or they run the club, the Syrian community. And we'll go in there and you'll all of a sudden say, like, no, you guys are kids and you don't know what you're talking. You don't listen.

Starting point is 00:29:46 Why don't you create an academy and develop the next leaders that are coming up and teach them history, ritual, teach them stuff that work, teach them the 50 biggest mistakes a Syrians made and what we can do to learn from it, right? Hey, what are the biggest mistakes a candidate has made, a Republican candidate, a Democratic candidate? I don't know if that's taking place where those leaders are being developed. Like, I asked, is not Hillsdale College, it is Hillsdale College, but you got Heritage Foundation, you got Hillsdale College, you got some of these places that are out there. Okay, what are you doing to develop the next guys

Starting point is 00:30:25 that are coming up? Okay, Charlie Kirk is doing turning point USA, and it's grown, fantastic. But I'm more talking about doors closed, you know, I've developed leaders, but I've given tens of thousands of speeches in the last 20 years. Take any of those speeches that I've given,

Starting point is 00:30:41 and then ask who I've built the most. It was a lot of small group setting one on one, one on five, one on 10, one in 20 words like sitting there going. That's where real development is made. So if you don't want to run for Prime Minister, no problem. Why don't we create an academy where you take the next 50, 100 guys that are out there and every are created one we can kind of like how Michael Jordan does this one week camp. Kyrie Irvings got this, all these basketball players have their own camps that you go to.

Starting point is 00:31:10 Every summer. Yeah, great. Why don't you create a two week camp every summer? I guarantee you there's parents out there that would spend the $5,000, $10,000 for their kids to spend time with you. And maybe there's gonna be an element of, here's $5,000, $10,000,

Starting point is 00:31:22 I'm gonna send my kid to be with you for two weeks, but it's gonna be all day every day. And then if the parents want to also be there, that's another $5,000 for the parents. They sit all the way in the back. They're not involved. So your kids are on the front, you see the curriculum, so you know how to follow up with your kids,

Starting point is 00:31:36 but you're in the back, there's a glass or whatever, so you're not getting involved and messing it up, and he's doing whatever he's doing with the kids, pinning them against each other, the debate topic, what do you think about this, what do you think about that? Read this really, really going through this intense environment.

Starting point is 00:31:48 I don't know if that exists today, but if it did exist and it was by people like this, I think it will blow up. And not only blow up, the future leaders would be built coming out of many of these places. Can I give a counter-argument? Do so.

Starting point is 00:32:01 Well, because I'm gonna go back to Gadsad's initial argument is, why would I sit down on a classroom with 30 people when I can go on to a YouTube or a webinar or whatever and get 30,000 people on there? So it kind of comes down to your motivation and how many eyeballs you want and is the money the motivating factor? Is it change? Is it creating something, the vision that you want? I'm throwing this to you because you said that the onset of this conversation,

Starting point is 00:32:28 why would I sit down and do a lecture in a classroom where I could just just do it on you. So for me, look, an academic has two, it's a two step process. Number one, you have to create knowledge. And I do that, of course, through writing books, through writing academic papers. But then the second part is disseminating knowledge, right? I, because, by the way, do you know how, what is the average number of times that an academic paper is cited in the, in the academic literature? Can you guess how much? Zero. The, the, the, the mean number of times, meaning that on average, most academic papers are

Starting point is 00:33:02 cited by no one. I mean, you do all this work and zero people give a shit. Zero people give a shit, exactly. Now, not all papers, some papers are started 10,000 times and that person becomes human. You went far between, right? I'm just doing my own. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:33:16 The average person is producing garbage. And again, I'm not denigrating academia, but academics come in different shades, right? Some are very, very influential. Most do research that's only read by their mom and the reviewer, right? And I've mentioned the story many times before, but it's worth repeating. So in 2017, I've been invited to Stanford Business School. So that's pretty much the mecca of prestige, you know, in academia. I was giving a talk on one of my scientific papers. And the gentleman who took me out, the host, is a fellow professor.

Starting point is 00:33:46 And the night before we went out to dinner, and so at one point he asked me as well, you know, I didn't know you were such a, you know, academic celebrity. You hang out with Joe Rogan, you go on Joe Rogan. I said, yeah, you know, it's great. He said, so he says it now, look with the kind of an air of disgust, the hot air. He was, yeah, well, you know, at Stanford, we don't condone that. I said, you don't condone what exactly. He said, well, you know, at Stanford, we don't condone that. I said, you don't condone what exactly? He said, well, you know, we don't do research so that it could be sexy enough so that we

Starting point is 00:34:09 can talk about it on Joe Rogan. I said, well, I don't do research. I could appear on Joe Rogan, but surely it's better to both do great research and be able to discuss it on Joe Rogan because now 20 million people will see it. He was, yeah, well, we don't do that at Stanford. So look at the mindset. His mindset was, I only speak to a few of my anointed class colleagues.

Starting point is 00:34:31 I don't speak to the great unwashed robes, right? Whereas for me, an opportunity to come on Pat's show where I can reach million of people, I'm jumping on that because I don't have that elitism, right? I want now, there's kids who are going to be listening to say, I want wanna be that next guy. So in a sense, I agree with both of your positions. We can do it intimately with 20 people,

Starting point is 00:34:50 but we could also do it with two million people on patch. Well, can you speak to the mindset of the professor because I'm going back to this like coffee task force. So I assume it got implemented and there's coffee at your college. But when you walk into the break room and the coffee room and there's you and a dozen other professors, what's the overall sentiment like, oh, there's the fucking hard shot.

Starting point is 00:35:09 Totally. Totally. So, look, as you probably know, the seven deadly sins include envy as one of the sins, right? We also know from the Ten Commandments, don't covet your, your, your, your, your professors in the paper, right? Exactly. And so, so envy regrettably is, it might, it your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, your, can't go on patch show because they're not interesting and charismatic enough, but they

Starting point is 00:35:45 know how to write academic papers in a certain model, in a certain template. They have mastered that ability, but they would love to go on Joe Rogan, but they can't pull it off. Therefore, they'll denigrate those who can do it. Right. So I'm a sell out, right? Because if I were really a hardy professor, I would only be publishing in the top academic journal. But here's the thing, I do publish in the top academic journal. So they can't hold that against me.

Starting point is 00:36:13 So I do both, but to them, you're a sellout for coming on patch show. That's two vulgar, it's for the masses. What's the phrase, those that can't do teach? Yeah, right. How do you process that? Look, I don't think it's true. I mean, I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say

Starting point is 00:36:29 that only those who can't do teach, because if you study criminal behavior and you're a criminologist, should you have been a corrections officer or a criminal in order? So there are certain scientific principles that you could apply. So I could teach entrepreneurship even though

Starting point is 00:36:44 I may not have been a great entrepreneur myself. So I don't necessarily buy that. But it is true that academia, because of the slowness of how things move, breeds a bit of a parasitic culture, a deadwood culture. So many people, regrettably, after they get tenure, will stop producing. Whereas the real academic is not encumbered by tenure, right? I've been more productive after I got tenure

Starting point is 00:37:11 than before I got tenure, right? So my former doctoral supervisor at Cornell just retired. I just came back from Ithaca. By the way, so the video you did with the purple hair? You like that? Yeah, it was hot. But by the way, I received, you can't imagine how many letters from people from Ithaca telling me, thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:37:31 I'm afraid to open my mouth in Ithaca and your ability to satirize it is just unbelievable. Every single store, every business, every car had BLM, black transgender lives matter. How many black transgender people exist for? Like, so I mean, so freak. I mean, it's just unbelievable, right? But that's the mindset.

Starting point is 00:37:54 The woke rabbit hole. Nothing is as bad as Ithaca, which I hate to say because Cornell is where I was trained. I love Ithaca. You said, and I watched the segment that you did, which I'm slightly turned out, not gonna lie. You said, look, where's the woken place in the world and you kind of said a few cities, is it in Berkeley?

Starting point is 00:38:14 Or again. Is it in Oregon? And then you're like, nope, right? Where I went to college over here and I think under your cornel. Bruto. Why is it so bad there? So here's one supposition.

Starting point is 00:38:24 I think it started off in the 60s as the super, let's all hug, you know, peace through reggae music and you know, that's, that's not crazy for from Woodstock. Exactly. It's kind of the Woodstock vibe. And then because it already has the ground for that kind of lovey-duvie stuff, then the walk parasites can come in and then build on that. So it becomes this kind of beautiful melange of hippy stuff, with walk stuff, and everybody is transgender. Everybody has blue, you know, pink hair and so on. It's just, it's unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:38:58 It really is. It almost feels like a caricature, like a satirical piece. It's just unreal. So who's thanking you for pointing this out? So I had a guy who owns a gym, right to me. And by the way, if they're listening to this, all the people who are gonna tell me my apologies, if I don't write back, I do read all your message.

Starting point is 00:39:14 I always feel so guilty when people take the time to write the read. He's busy, guys, I mean, come on, you give him a little break here. But once a month, I will send out a grand apology to everyone because I didn't respond. But I do read those messages. So I've got all kinds of people.

Starting point is 00:39:29 A guy works at a coffee shop. He's not woke, but he's afraid to say he's not woke. A guy who owns a fitness center in Africa. All kinds of people who said to me, you know, we watched your clip and, you know, I give them kind of a rope to sanity, because you start wondering whether because you're not woke, but everybody around you, whether there's something wrong with you. And then here comes the blue pink,

Starting point is 00:39:54 or what is it, the purple hair, purple hair professor who's able to have the guts to make fun of these things. And then they suddenly feel sane again that there's this imprimature of a professor who is agreeing with them. Yeah, I feel like this is the perfect segue for the whole Bill Mar segment that he did about. You and I last time when we were speaking, I think we talked about, I told you the story about my friend who we went to the skate bar in Nashville and the guy says, how do you know you're not gay? And the entire drive

Starting point is 00:40:23 back is like, how do I know it? How do you know? Like, he kept messing with my head and he had to find out for him something. Like, you don't need to find out. I gotta do my research, like a professor here. I gotta get that tenure. He had to go figure it out for himself that he's not. And it was like such a weird thing to go through.

Starting point is 00:40:38 He's like, no, I'm not gay. I'm like, honestly, you had to do that to kind of go through the process. Imagine doing that just to find you guys good news. I'm not gay, but I, you know, yeah, me and the buddy down the can you imagine that story right there? So I'm like, okay. But then and I asked you question.

Starting point is 00:40:52 I said, so let me ask you, do you think what all these TV shows, like, yes, last night, we're sitting in the house, a murals in town and we're having conversations all this stuff and eight, what movie you watch, all this stuff. And, you know, we're having conversations all this stuff in a what movie watch all this stuff and You know we're talking about Jurassic Park the one that just came out which Honestly whoever's gonna be offended by this it is what it is one the worst movies I've seen in the last few years Well when all the dinosaurs are gay and trans what do you expect just horrible? Okay, and then I you watch top gun

Starting point is 00:41:23 It's better than top gun one anyways, so then we look at cartoons for kids. So the new cartoon is a toy story guy. What's the guy's name? Lightyear. Lightyear? Yeah, and you know, in there, there is a character where there's LGBT characters that they're kissing each, and then they're holding a baby, okay?

Starting point is 00:41:40 In a cartoon. And originally, the CEO of the company company said we're not gonna do this. We're gonna cut this because this is too much. And the employees at Disney Pixar came out protesting where they finally said leave it in there. So it's in the cartoon, right? So I'm sitting there and we're having a conversation whether we're gonna watch this with our kids or not, whether we're gonna watch this with our kids.

Starting point is 00:42:05 I said, there's no benefit for me to watch this. I said, if you wanna watch porn, whatever kind of kinky porn you like to, I don't know what kind of porn you watch, whatever you watch, give it to yourself. You don't need to put it in a movie for me to watch, and then it's my choice, you know? I don't know what his choice for porn is.

Starting point is 00:42:20 He's expressed it a few times, you know. It's usually men and purple wigs, that's my kind of thing, he's just, I of thing He's with a big basketball player in front of him I don't know what it's like my being but but the point is I said I said it's a little too much where you're selling too many things to my kids And I'm out of it and I ask you I said, yeah, do you think? All these shows all these movies are making us or Making kids increase the population of the LGBTQ community. And you said, no, I don't think it's affecting it as much as it is. And then

Starting point is 00:42:51 Bill Maher three weeks ago comes out, if you can post that one picture, what Bill Maher put, he says, at this pace, within the next 20 years, we're all going to be gay, is what he said. Because the percentage of the, if you can zoom that in, that's actually very interesting. He says the silent generation only 0.8% are the baby moomer generation only 2.6 percent Gen X Is 4.2 millennials 10.5 Gen Z one out of five Gen Z is part of the old they they see themselves as part of the LGBT Right, I can't buy this LGBT So what's causing it? Yeah, so I can maybe tease it up a bit. A tease it apart a bit.

Starting point is 00:43:27 To try to be gay, so for example, if I'm a man and I want to be cool and be part of a fad, it's going to be involved, sodomy in dark corners. That takes a lot of behavioral commitment on my part. You follow what I'm saying? On the other hand, if I just have to self-identify as trans, that's not nearly as much of a behavioral commitment, right? So one could be prone to a fad, the latter one, whereas the former one, it's very unlikely that I'm just going to get into anonymous gay sex because it's faddish to do so, to speak to your point, to the point of your friend who, who didn't know if he was gay or not. I know if I'm interested in Turkish

Starting point is 00:44:09 guys and gay sonas, right? So I don't think that, so, so there's a paper by the way by a, I think she was a pediatrician and I, I mentioned her in the parasitic mind. Her name was Lisa Littmann. Do you know her? You know, her? So she wrote a paper and plus one, which is an academic journal, where she was exactly arguing in much more scientific terms, what Bill Mars is arguing there, that the trans-movement or phenomenon is really one of a social contagion. Right? Now, that makes sense, right? Because if I'm a young kid who is feeling a bit ostracized,

Starting point is 00:44:47 I can get a lot of ego strokes by belonging to a group today that feels fattish. That doesn't require much behavioral investment on my part to simply say, you know, I may be self-identifying as a girl or a boy, whatever it might be. I think it's a lot harder to be fattish about your sexual behavior, right?

Starting point is 00:45:06 And especially if you're a man. So for example, we do know from research that women are a lot more sexually fluid. In other words, it makes a lot more sense for a woman to say, you know, in college, I dabbled. Whereas it's a lot harder for Pat and I to say, you know, in college when we were watching an NFL game, then we started wrestling with each other and then and then saw them. He broke out. So,

Starting point is 00:45:29 so when it comes to to men, I think there's a lot less fluidity. I really know if I'm gay or not for women. It's a lot more fluid and the trans grace for many kids who identify as trans, it's really because it's just fattish. Now, by the the way Lisa Litman, when she published the paper, did you guys put it up? Oh yeah, exactly. When she published the paper, I write away reached out to her because at first it was published and then it caused all kinds of problems and then they wanted to retract it. So I invited her on my show because I'm always the guy who invites all these folks who are otherwise getting brutalized by everybody else and no academic is courageous enough to invite them. And she wrote back to me saying, look, I would love to thank you so much for the offer,

Starting point is 00:46:10 but she was scared at the time because she thought she just wanted it to die, the story to die away. But I think it's never a good idea to do that because once the blue hair Taliban comes after you, they're going to come after you no matter what. So if you try to placate them, if you try to apologize, it's never going to work. Quick story about not apologizing. And actually, you just met my wife. So this is a story about my wife. So we had gone your hot what? My hot wife. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:46:36 We had gone to a cafe, a local cafe that we always go to in Montreal. And my wife had just met this new barista who looked as though they were transgender. So she came back to me and said, you know, God, I felt very uncomfortable because I don't want to say something that would offend that person. I didn't know how to address them. And so I wrote out a tweet where I said,

Starting point is 00:46:58 you know, she was frozen and feared, not sure about what to say because she didn't want to hurt the person's feelings. That tweet was meant to demonstrate how empathetic and kind she was, that she was so unsure of how to handle them. 26 million tweet impressions later and two, three days of millions of mob coming after me, including Valerie Bertonelli, you know, the former child actress, who basically said, my wife is mentally, they completely misconstrued the tweet. The tweet was about, my wife didn't wanna say something

Starting point is 00:47:32 that would hurt that person's feeling. She was being empathetic towards the person because she didn't wanna call the by the wrong pronoun. By the wrong pronoun, okay? So I could have easily taken down the tweet, I could have apologized. What did I do being the king of all honey badgers? I then satirized their bullshit.

Starting point is 00:47:49 I, do you guys know the series that I do under the table where I'm under the desk? So this is where I mock the idea that, you know, I'm always afraid, right? Donald Trump has just become president. I'm hiding, you know, a Brett Kavanaugh just became justice. I'm hiding. So I hate,

Starting point is 00:48:06 I hit under the table and I said that unlike the ISIS folks that I had to run from in Lebanon in the mid-70s, the pronoun Taliban are incredibly scarier than the guys that I ran away from in Lebanon. So what I did is I mocked their hysteria, I waited out, I didn't apologize for anything, and guess what? They got bored and went away. So life lessened guys, unless you really have something to apologize for, never apologize. Wow. Can we stay right here on this topic because this fascinates me, and I know that you have had some strong feelings about this, but you use the word social contagion. You use that word last time with Pat

Starting point is 00:48:45 on the Zoom interview and I looked up the definition and it says it's the behavior and emotion spread spontaneously through a group or group thing. And then you also use the terminology which I had heard before courtesy of M&M which was the terminology called Munchhausen syndrome. Yes. Which he basically said he was a, do you remember when he talked about it, you know why he's

Starting point is 00:49:07 hates his mom so much for all our hip-hop fans out there? She used to do this to him. That's his whole thing. He's like, why he hate, I'm sorry, mama, I never meant to hurt you. I didn't know that. He was a victim of Munchhausen syndrome, that whole thing. Tyler, you might know this, you're a rap guy. And that's where you deliberately-

Starting point is 00:49:21 I used to know the line by heart. There you go, buddy. And so you deliberately produce symptoms of illness so that people care for them, so you're the center of attention. Are you saying that's kind of what's going on with the LGBTQ is you want to, it's almost like don't do as I do, do as I say,

Starting point is 00:49:38 like I'm identifying as LGBTQ or whatever it is or trans, but I'm not really doing it behind closed doors. So let me build that up. So thank you for that question. In 2010, I wrote a paper, which I published in a medical journal, it was on Munchhausen Syndrome by proxy. And so let me describe,

Starting point is 00:50:01 and you could probably pull out that paper. Munchhausen Syndrome is exactly what you said, Adam. This is when I feign a medical illness in order to garner empathy and sympathy. That's Munchhausen syndrome. Munchhausen syndrome by proxy is even more diabolical. This is when I take someone who's under my care, my biological child, my pet, my elderly parent, and I harm them so that I can garner the empathy and sympathy by proxy. So by harming the kid, then everybody comes to me, oh poor you, you're parent, you have this child. So a lot of the transgender craze from the parental

Starting point is 00:50:40 perspective is a form of much housing by proxy, right? Look at me, I have a child who has, you know, gender identity issues. So it's, in that sense, by proxy. It's that paper that I published in 2010 that then led me in the parasitic mind to diagnose the victimology currency that we see today in society as a form of collective munchhausen and collective munchhausen by proxy. The idea being that it is no longer the mechanism by which we ascend the hierarchy through meritocracy, right? I am the most accomplished professor, therefore I should get the big reward. Now it's, am I a bigger victim than both of you, right? And if I am, then I win, right?

Starting point is 00:51:25 So feel bad for me. Feel bad for me. You should feel the baddest for me. Exactly. So now so I warned now nearly two decades ago I've been warning people that once this type of parasitic ideas take hold in the universities It's the end of science now I don't mean to be the guy sitting telling you I told you so but I told you so. And let me explain how it manifests itself in academia. You could no longer now apply for a scientific grant without submitting as part of your grant what's called a diversity inclusion and equity statement, which I call in the book, die. Because that's the acronym, right? Diversity inclusion equity is where meritocracy goes to die, literally.

Starting point is 00:52:03 Why? Because now, we no longer adjudicate whether we're going to give you $300,000 to do your research based on the merit of your scientific research. Is your die statement woke enough? Now what is the die statement? Are you going to be hiring transgender people of color? Is your methodology going to incorporate indigenous ways of knowing? It defies even God's sats, satire, and caricatures, right? What does it mean to do indigenous

Starting point is 00:52:35 way of knowing? There is no indigenous way of knowing. There's only the scientific method, right? There is no Lebanese Jewish way of doing evolutionary psychology. There's just evolutionary psychology. There is no... Is Assyrian or Assyrian? Assyrian. There is no Assyrian mathematics. There is just mathematics. That's what makes the scientific methods such a democratic epistemology. It allows us to keep our personal identities at the door, right? You just do math, you just do chemistry, you just do psychology. But now we're reverting back to the epistemological

Starting point is 00:53:11 dark ages whereby whether I get a grant or not is literally encoded in terms of how woke I am. I have a colleague of mine at McGill. He's a physical chemist. He's been denied two grants. He's a very serious scientist. He actually came to dinner grants. He's a very serious scientist He actually came to dinner when Jordan Peterson came to Montreal two weeks ago He also came to dinner with us this gentleman his name is Pat He was denied to grants as a physical chemist by the way He's a brown person. I mean much browner than we are. I mean, he's from he's from India Okay, so he checks the box of person of color. He's been denied

Starting point is 00:53:46 because he won't play the walk game. So imagine how outrageous it is that in the 21st century, whether we give scientific grants to people is not based on the scientific merit of their grants but based on how woke they are. It's grotesque, it's unbelievable. Can I ask one follow-up question with this? Because I got to tell you this might be I might get canceled for bringing this up right now, but I'm gonna bring it up anyway because I'm not scared Pat But as you're saying the social contagion and munch houses syndrome and How basically you want people to feel bad for you because you want more attention you want more attention The name that comes to mind for me speaking of of trans, of who's the face of trans

Starting point is 00:54:25 these days. Caitlin Jenner. Caitlin Jenner. Bruce Jenner. So I have a theory. You tell me if I'm crazy, if I'm wrong, if I've got it all wrong, feel free. As Pat says, tear me a new one, whatever, tear down my argument. I've been around Bruce Jenner.

Starting point is 00:54:38 Alright, people that follow the podcast feel, no, I used to be friends with Chris Humphreys and Kim Kardashian. I used to be in that kind of world for a little while. And I spent a lot of time around Bruce Jenner. This was when he was Bruce Jenner. And all he talked about was the 1972 Olympics. Was it 72 or 76? 76 Montreal. Okay. That's all he talked about, God. Okay. Keep him. This is 2011, right? And, you know, we're getting ready for the wedding. I'm a groom's man in the wedding, right? Like, my boy's about to marry Kim Kardashian.

Starting point is 00:55:08 And he's like, come here Adam, and he's helping me like fix my ties. He's like, let me tell you when I was in the 76 Olympics. And what we did, I was like, this guy really talking about the seven, like this is what his story was. And my theory is this, he's surrounded by women, right? Kim, Chloe, Kendall, this one, that one.

Starting point is 00:55:26 All right, Chris, all the K girls, and he's the one guy, right? And well, there's the brother, but he kinda was like shunned. And they're getting all this attention and eyeballs and eyeballs and eyeballs. And if you fast rewind, he was the, the Catholic on winner

Starting point is 00:55:42 was the biggest name of the world at one point. And now he's like an afterthought in this feminine world. And at some point, he said, you know what? I've been a man's man for 50 something years. Now I'm Caitlin. Now all the eyeballs aren't me. Dianne Soares interviewing him. He's, what was he?

Starting point is 00:56:01 Woman of the year? He was woman. In like 2016, whatever it was. So all these eyeballs around him, look at me, look at me, look at me. So am I crazy for identifying this as sort of some sort of, what do you call it, social contagion, Munchowns' syndrome?

Starting point is 00:56:15 Am I completely off-base? You want to take it or something? Take it. So I don't know enough about his personal story to be able to confirm if it's not, I mean, you certainly have a set of causal links that might make sense, but it seems to me that it would require a big behavioral commitment

Starting point is 00:56:32 for him to engage in all that he's engaging simply because he wants that kind of attention. I mean, did you get a sense that he was starving for attention when you would interact with him? Again, his only claim to fame, via, you know, up until 2016 was that he won the Olympics in 1976. So any time, like imagine if you're citing

Starting point is 00:56:51 all your soccer stories from the 1980s. Right. It's like at some point it's like, we get it, you played soccer, but what's up now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like if Pat only talked about being a bodybuilder and he had nothing else to offer. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:04 So at some point you're like, you know what? This might get some eyeballs. Anyway, that's my- Have you heard him speak? Have you heard him in interviews? Have you heard him give his point of view in perspective? Have you seen him or not? Well, why are you calling him him?

Starting point is 00:57:17 Oh, no. Have you- I met him. I met him when in 2003, and it was a Tom Hopkins seminar met we have a picture together. But when you see him speak, do you see him as a person that is? Have you seen how he answers questions, how he processes issues? Then or now? Today. Yeah, I've seen him a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's very, you know, he's kind of like woke, but on the right, Republican, but LGBT. It's kind of confused.

Starting point is 00:57:45 Yeah, he doesn't come across to me as an airhead. He comes across as a very, the way he gives us answers and processes issues. And he doesn't come from an angle of feel sorry for me or sympathy. It's a very interesting, you know, situation with him when you hear him speak. But it's also kind of confusing. But it is. But so there's a part of what you're saying. Maybe make sense because it's very, very hard for you to walk into a room and get all the attention and all of a sudden you walk into a room and you're not even in the top seven of getting all the attention. Right. That can really, and I'm talking about in your own family.

Starting point is 00:58:26 Yes. So it's okay if you go out there and you're getting all the attention and then all of a sudden you go to a different environment and another person's getting all the attention but it's not your family, then you go from in your family, you're the guy that gets all the attention, then all of a sudden it's your wife, then it's one of your, then it's all of a sudden you disappear. Hey guys, I'm also important here too. That could happen for you.

Starting point is 00:58:47 You bring up an amazing point. You go from number one in your family and there was no doubt in there. Zero doubt. He was number one and then boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, daughter famous, daughter famous, wife famous, daughter famous, younger daughter, younger daughter, and now you walk into a room

Starting point is 00:59:00 or you go into a red carpet and they're like, hey, would you step out of the way? We're trying to take pictures of all the ladies. And he's standing in the corner, and at some point, he said, you know what, fuck it, I gotta become a lady. I might be crazy here, but there's some element of life. This is gonna be, this is gonna sound strange for me to bring this up, but I mean, whoever interviews,

Starting point is 00:59:18 may have to have this conversation. If he's, it's a personal question, but, you know, do you think he's had any kind of a sexual experience with a man since he's had the sex change? Let me explain to why I'm going in this direction. This is not being silly, I'm not at all trying to be funny or sarcastic at all. Because if he has, then it's a desire. If he hasn't, the motive was a different motive.

Starting point is 00:59:49 It was just to get the attention. You know what I'm saying, right? I could be wrong, but I still think he likes women. Yeah, I think he's just identifying as a woman now. Yeah, so now he's wrong. He's a lesbian. Now he's a lesbian. I could be wrong.

Starting point is 01:00:01 Yeah, so I don't see him hanging out with dudes. But again, go back to the power of the power of peer pressure, the power of peer pressure being around you, the power of, you know, the eyeballs, the power of what fame does to you. The power of some people don't know how to handle fame early, you know, the power of when it's taken away, right, taken away, being an afterthought. Yeah, but like, like, you know, like, okay, so you know how, think about how much it sucks to be Michael Jordan's son.

Starting point is 01:00:33 Okay, think about that. Like, one time I'm having a conversation with, exactly. So one time I'm having a conversation with one of my guys, and I said, you know what's more annoying than a bad example? He says, what's that? I said a great example. He says, what do you mean? I said, you know what's more annoying than a bad example? He says, what's that? I said, a great example. He says, what do you mean?

Starting point is 01:00:45 I said, okay. So, a kid who had a, let's just say a bad example as a father, let's just say, you know, that kid's got a point to prove to outdo the father. So, then he does, and he becomes a better man than his father. But it didn't take a lot to earn that, what do you call it, that stature. You know, I'm more successful than my dad.

Starting point is 01:01:07 Okay. So now you got what you wanted. You've done better. You're a better man than your dad is. Now, flipping and put, your dad is a person that is very powerful and you have to outdo that person. Okay. But now go be that father. And that father who is on top of the world and everybody thinks nobody's

Starting point is 01:01:26 going to out to you and then somebody does. So I think in those cases, the best advice that I can give the child is to not follow and their parents' footsteps. I agree. Right. So for example, your dad is Michael Jordan, become a neurosurgeon. But this is not even the conversation. The conversation is what if you are Michael Jordan and your son out to, how does you? That's this is not even the conversation. The conversation is what if you are Michael Jordan

Starting point is 01:01:45 and your son out to, how does you? That's this situation because he's Chris, you know, he's, you know, the guy who's Bruce Jenner, you know, crushes it and then you're everywhere you go, you're that guy, now your kids do bigger than you, they're more famous than you, they're more successful than you, they're richer than you. How does he process that?

Starting point is 01:02:04 It's a very different situation that he's going to speak. Speaking about Montreal 1976 Olympics, it would be, I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that my brother was in the same Olympic village as Bruce Jenner, because my brother was in Olympian in the 1976 Olympics in Judo. That's something happened between them. I don't know, is that kind of where you're going?

Starting point is 01:02:26 I'd be remiss if anybody bring up there. They were in the locker room. And next day, it was just locker room talk. And nothing happened. Another thing, by the way, I think you guys are MMA guys. Are you? Yes. We have them here all the time.

Starting point is 01:02:39 So before the whole thing with MMA started where the idea was, can you get guys of different fighting traditions to go into the octagon and fight each other? I had had that conversation probably 15 years before the MMA came to be with my brother who was Olympic Judoca. My brother is really small of stature, but he's a bulldog, right? And we would go to clubs in Southern California in the early late 80s, early 90s. And he always walked as though he's six bulldog, right? And we would go to clubs in Southern California in the early, late 80s, early 90s. And he always walked as though he's six foot eight, right? He just has this confidence about him.

Starting point is 01:03:12 You know, we'd be interacting with bouncers and so on. And I would always say to him, do you think that you would be able to take this guy? And so, so to, as a preemptive thing of the MMA, as a pre, he would say, God, as long as the guy doesn't knock me out, as I'm approaching him, if I get him, he's finished. And that's exactly what you would see in the MMA now,

Starting point is 01:03:34 where the guys who can take you down on the floor are usually the ones who have the cubes of the world. Right, so my brother was already saying that as a judo, you know, back in the late 70s and early 80s, maybe you could put up, anyways. That's a big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big,s and early 80s, maybe you could put up, anyways, say, is that Michael Jordan? Put up, put up, yeah, God, son's brother. By the way, I want to apologize to our audience, our young friend Tyler over here, Google Michael Jordan son and Michael B Jordan, the world famous actor showed up. That is not that Michael Jordan son.

Starting point is 01:04:01 That's, I hope he'll be happy that I'm giving him this. That's your brother? That's a, I hope he'll be happy that I'm giving him this. That's your brother. That's my dad. David's sad. David's sad. So he used to be a badass. This is what you're saying. Look, look at those, look at this.

Starting point is 01:04:12 Go to this. Let's have him, huh? No, that's me. That's you. That's me. Jesus. With the impact. Guys, stop the podcast.

Starting point is 01:04:20 Let's just get it. What's going on right now? Are you questioning your sexuality? Wow. You throw into the dead or God. Holy moly God. Let's just get it. What's going on here right now? Are you questioning your sexuality or what? Wow, look at it. You don't have that. They're good. Holy moly God.

Starting point is 01:04:29 This is so layered. Listen, then it makes sense. Then it makes sense why you got a model out there that you call your wife, you know that. By the way, she told me many times how come I never got the eight pack. She's like, I'm only with this guy. Now I'm not eight pack now, but I'm sort of closer to this.

Starting point is 01:04:45 You're back, baby. I'm back, baby. Son, the we result the issue with Bruce Jenner. But don't have a crazy pointer. I think it's a bit speculative. So I'm not willing to grant you the professional imprimature. But I'm not 100% wrong. Not 100% wrong.

Starting point is 01:04:58 A bit speculative though. I said that. I could be crazy for this, but that's my theory. Well, let's look at some this, but that's my theory. Well, let's look at some of the stuff that's going on right now. So Jake Paul, you're familiar with Jake Paul. I don't think so.

Starting point is 01:05:11 Who is that? So you're like the one guy in America who isn't at this point in your poll. You don't know Logan Paul or Jake Paul? No. The blonde guys were boxing everyone. You're being sarcastic. I swear to God, I'm not.

Starting point is 01:05:20 You just said you were UFC guy. I'm not a UFC. Oh, God, you're not actually. Do you recognize this character? Okay. Oh, yes. I'm not a UFC. Oh, gotcha. I'm not actually recognized this character. Okay. Oh, yes. I think I'd recognize this. So Jake Paul, who is setting up all these fights.

Starting point is 01:05:30 Okay. And his brother has said before that he has aspirations to be a president one day, Jake Paul comes out, which by the way, these guys have never talked politics before. They're not a, would you agree? They're not necessarily a political brothers where they're going out there saying stuff about politics. But yesterday he

Starting point is 01:05:48 puts out this tweet. Can you put that up there? He says, Biden's accomplishments, highest gas prices, worse inflation, plummeting crypto prices, highest rent prices ever, created new incomprehensible language, which we don't, many people don't speak. If you're reading this and voted for Biden and you still regret it and you still don't regret it, then you are the American problem. That could literally be a Gatsat tweet. That's a fantastic guy.

Starting point is 01:06:16 Well, we're already a fan of this guy. Well, we just introduced you to this guy named Jake Paul. Jake Paul. So Jake, meet Gat, Gat, meet Jake. What do you think about what he said to Taylor? What title? What do you think about it? I mean, I, I mean, obviously it hurts your feelings. You don't like this kind of stuff, but I think it's interesting

Starting point is 01:06:33 that you're seeing such a revolt against showbiz specifically from the influencer community. Like there were a few rappers that came out in 2020 that were wearing mega hats. You're seeing the Paul brothers come out like you're seeing or at least Jake Paul rather. You're seeing this pushback on the far left, the progressives against their policies and your ideologies. And two, you're point about the academy. I mean, that's why it's so important that Jake Paul does this, or Gad said, or you or Joe Rogan, that we're doing what we're doing because yes, the academy is great.

Starting point is 01:07:03 Right. That's a wonderful idea. But we have to have a full-blown cultural revolution. I mean, like, full-on, like we had in the 60s. Because even if Donald Trump wins the election, or Jordan Peterson wins PM and Canada, it doesn't make a difference because the tentacles are so far wrapped around the institutions that it doesn't matter what you do.

Starting point is 01:07:22 Think about Lisa Page, Carter page and Lisa Strucker, whoever was the FBI agents that were going actively campaigning against Donald Trump. I mean, it's the FBI, the DOJ, HHS, everybody. It doesn't matter. And so Donald Trump wins. What's he gonna do? He's gonna rule by executive order and be a tyrant?

Starting point is 01:07:40 I mean, that doesn't work. So I think it's wonderful to see this. And it's wonderful to see the younger generation, or at least some of them start to wake up and realize what's going on, because yeah, the teaching a select group of people, how to be leaders is great in theory, and it's probably what we need,

Starting point is 01:07:56 but more so than that, we need a real, real cultural revolution. I feel that way about guns. I feel that way about guns. You know how they're saying there's been 246 mass shootings this year so far. But there was another one potentially yesterday. God got you heard about that right? What happened yesterday in Texas? I did not know where we're about to go. I walked into maybe this morning or yesterday but the guy walks into a

Starting point is 01:08:19 school class with a gun and they got them. Oh the school resource resource officer shot him. Yeah, the school resource officer shot him. So with all these mass shootings at their time, I yesterday were talking with you and Michael Francies and the conversation was about, well, you know, what about the idea that Matthew McConaughey pitched, right? Raise the age, automatic background check, you know, in certain weapons you can't have

Starting point is 01:08:39 and you know, how many magazines you can, oh, anyways, all these things that they're pitching. And at the end, I said, okay, even if we do that and you move that in, that only prevents 5% to 10% of the mass shootings. That doesn't prevent the majority of mass shootings. So Tyler, can you mute the, so, so even if you do that, you're getting,

Starting point is 01:08:59 still the issue's not gonna go away. It needs to be more of a long-term cultural change where every other channel is turning these guys into heroes where all of a sudden the next person wants to rise up and do it again. So I think it's more values and principles to your point. I think it's more values and principles. And but for a guy like Jake Paul to make that comment,

Starting point is 01:09:22 for Jake to tweet that out, it makes no sense. I can't see Jake saying something like that, but for him to say, he's got a lot of young followers that follow him. I mean, look at that. How many likes did he get? 156,000 likes that he got. That means 156. And by the way, it is the most like tweet ever, I believe.

Starting point is 01:09:40 On the amount of likes that he gets. And most of his followers are younger people to agree with that. This is a guy that's got, look at his YouTube channel, how many subscribers is this guy? Wow. Yeah, that's this guy.

Starting point is 01:09:52 Okay, that he made a comment like that. 20.4 million subscribers. So I agree with you that long term, but I also think the Academy part is more a longer term thing, where even sicker societies, even secret societies. What secret societies still exist today? I would argue the secret societies still exist today.

Starting point is 01:10:13 They have the power that they once had. The World Economic Forum Young Leaders Foundation. You say that's a secret society. They produced Justin Trudeau came out of there. There's a ton of political leaders that have come out of the clash. Was that a secret though? I mean, it's not, what do you mean by secret? I mean, there's only 15 or 20, yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:33 That's not a secret. Free Mason is how many presidents were former free Mason? What's the number they talk about 13 or 14, right? The Scullin' Bones, Secret Society. That's from Yale, right? That's from Yale, you got it. The Illuminati is more like a Hollywood thing or you know, the whole thing that they do. Does it exist? Does it not exist? Whatever. But there are certain secret societies. But the outcome here is to develop leaders that, those are the presidents. Look at this,

Starting point is 01:10:58 Freemason presidents. Wow. People that were Masonic presidents of the United States. What's the number? Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, uh, it's 15. Polk Buchanan, Johnson Garfield, McKinley R is a part of it. Uh, Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, FDR and Truman. What's the distribution of Republicans, a Democrat in that list? Well, none of the because there's zero Republicans there. Because the first Republican was Lincoln. Yeah, so these are all federal You know, these are all like original original type of a

Starting point is 01:11:30 Well, FDR is He's on the bottom right that's guys in the Truman Truman Yeah, FDR Democrat. So there we go. But again, you know to pull back up the Jake Paul tweet I got some feelings on that go for it. Share your thoughts. Well, what you're gonna say something no go ahead Well look I'm gonna remove the person from the statement because the person is an absolute troll Clown some might call them some may call him one of the more stated men in America, but he does get eyeball So I'm gonna remove the troll clown this is the is the M&A guy. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 01:12:05 Well, no, the boxer, YouTuber, influencer, yeah, troll clown, you would agree he's an all-time troll. Internet troll. He's a great troll. He's a great troll. He knows how to get under people's skin. And I'm not even saying troll in a bad way. He sure is the pot.

Starting point is 01:12:20 He's a pot, there, okay. Absolutely. But as someone who has voted for Biden, he's basically saying, hey buddy, what does he say? If you read this, you wrote about it, you still don't regret it, then you're a part of the American problem. Here's what I will say.

Starting point is 01:12:37 I'm not fixated on, I'm a Democrat, and that's it. I'm gonna stand behind my men. No, at some point, and this is for everyone, left, right, middle, center, blue, the edel, red my men. No, at some point, and this is for everyone, left, right, middle, center, blue, the adult, red, green, whatever, at some point you have to be like, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh,

Starting point is 01:12:53 shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, I had a conversation with my mom last night and I was like, shh, shh, shh, I was starting notes and my mom, I was like, mom mom how much do gas prices

Starting point is 01:13:06 need to go up for for you to like for you to vote for Trump I would never I think he's disgusting what a horrible human I go but mom look at my mom does not have a lot of money you know I go you know five bucks you know I'd still vote ten bucks well that, that's a crack, 20 bucks. And she's like, well, I don't like, you know, so you can see kind of her wrestling with her mind. But this is why I'm full on independent at this point. I mean, thank you, P.B.D. podcast. Thank you, Val your payment for basically saying, all right, Adam, you're no longer a quote

Starting point is 01:13:39 on quote, Democrat. I think it's, and by the way, I don't identify as a Republican either. I don't think a lot of the things that Trump has done or even the Maconols of the world have done are exactly something I can get behind But I think this is the advantage of just being independent open-minded Because at some point a lot of people who voted for Trump no matter what he did I could sit there and shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and I'd still wouldn't lose a vote Well, that's a fucking problem if If you're just gonna vote for somebody who shoots somebody on Fifth Avenue up, that's my guy.

Starting point is 01:14:08 At the same time, Jake Paul does have a point here. At what point, when there's a recession and gas prices inflation, do you have to question what you've always thought? So can I come in with some hardcore science here? Sure. So as someone who studies psychology of decision-making, one of the things that we study is what's

Starting point is 01:14:26 called the anchoring and adjustment problem. When you anchor yourself in a position, what does it take for me to be able to move you away from that position? It's very, very, very hard to do. And so, this not to engage in shameless plugging, but in chapter seven of the personal mind, I offer a methodology for precisely doing that. Can I share it with you guys? Please. So in chapter seven, I talk about how to seek truth.

Starting point is 01:14:53 And part of seeking truth is that when incoming evidence comes in that is contrary to your position, you should have the epistemic humility to change your opinion. Most people do not have that. People don't have that. So here's what I propose. There's something called

Starting point is 01:15:06 nomological networks of cumulative evidence. Now, it's a big mouthful. So let me break it down for you. Let's suppose I wanted to prove to you that toy preferences are not socially constructed. Right? Most social scientists think that the reason why we have the gender roles that we do

Starting point is 01:15:22 is because your parents are sexist pigs. They teach little Johnny to play with the truck, they teach little Linda to play with the Barbie doll, and that starts a cascade of gender role specialization, okay? I want to prove to you that no sex-specific toy preferences are rooted in our biology, are rooted in our evolutionary history. How would I go about altering your position?

Starting point is 01:15:42 So very much like Jake Paul is saying, what does it take for you to alter your position on Biden? I'm saying, how could I convince you of my position? And so, so it's a very, very powerful methodology. So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to find as much data sources, as much lines of evidence, distinct lines of evidence that will hopefully sway you away from your position. Let me give you examples, so I can get you data from developmental psychology where children are too young to have been socialized and I can show you that those children already exhibit those sex-specific toy preferences. In other words, they can't verbalize why they like this, but they will go towards the truck or the doll.

Starting point is 01:16:22 So that already negates the possibility that it's due to socialization because they're too young to have been socialized. So that's box one. I can get you data from Ververt monkeys and Reese's monkeys and chimpanzees, other species where their infants also exhibit the same sex-specific toy preferences as human infants. That's the second box. I can get you data from sub-Sahara Africa, different societies, not Western societies, and I can show you that their children exhibit the exact

Starting point is 01:16:51 same toy preferences. I'll just do one or two more, although the network is much bigger. I can get you data from 2,500 years ago from ancient Greece where on funerary monuments, the children are depicted playing with exactly the same toys as we see today. And then one final kicker, I can get you data from pediatric endocrinology, whereby little girls who suffer from congenital adrenal hyperplasia, it's a disorder that masculinizes their behavior, little girls who have that disorder will have toy preferences akin to those of little boys. So look what I've done, bit by bit, I have put the epistemological news around your neck because I'm giving you data

Starting point is 01:17:30 from across cultures, across time periods, across species, across disciplines, all of which triangulate to my position. Now, you'd like to think that someone is honest enough that if they see all that tsunami of evidence, they will then be swayed. But here's the bad news. Even with that much evidence, most people put their hands in their ears and go, la la la, I don't want to hear it. Anchoring. Anchoring. So that's so so what Jake Paul, notwithstanding that you guys are saying,

Starting point is 01:17:58 he's a troll and so on, he's actually, you know, he's actually espousing a very deep point, which is our the architecture of our human mind is not structured to change our position. We are built not to seek truth, but to win arguments. And therefore, I don't wanna hear about your contrary evidence. I'm sticking to my mind.

Starting point is 01:18:17 This is why people wanna live in echo chambers and only just listen to news that they agree with. Exactly. But the good news based on the size, time, topic breakdown, and I'm full on maggot this point. Thank you for that they agree with. Exactly. But the good news based on the time, time, to pick breakdown, and I'm full on maggot this point. Thank you for that. Appreciate that.

Starting point is 01:18:27 But what you just said, Adam, good for you for sharing where you're at and what Jake is saying for you to say, okay, cool. Here's kind of what I'm seeing, and the conversation I have with your mom yesterday. And you said, you know, what happens here? This is, this is where I've, what I've said,

Starting point is 01:18:42 and I've been saying this for a while after conversation, Tom Ellsworth, and I had, is the middle runs America, period. You don't need to win the left, you don't need to win the right, you need to win the middle. If the middle sides with you, you're going to win the election. For example, if the middle is 12%, if 80% of 12% is going to vote for you, you're winning. Not Republican, not not Democrat. If 80% of middle votes for you, you're going to win the election. So whoever's going to win the next like they ask AOC, I don't know if you saw them when

Starting point is 01:19:13 they ask AOC and she didn't want to answer the questions like, Hey, so what do you think about Tyler? Do you have that story here as I'm running again? Yeah, hey, do you think if Biden ran again? Oh, she equivocated. Yeah, she's like, well, listen, right now, the only thing you said page number four. Bottom of four. Bottom of four.

Starting point is 01:19:28 Okay, so you know, hey, if Biden ran, would you support Biden? And she's like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, well, you know, what we first need to do is, uh, Ocasio-Cortez won't commit to back in Biden in 2024. We'll cross that bridge when we get to its CNN. I think if the president has a vision, then that's something certainly we're willing to entertain

Starting point is 01:19:47 an exam when the time comes. Democrat who wields significant amount of influence over the party's progressive wing told CNN Dana Bash on the state of union when asked if she plans to support Biden in 2024 election. And that's not a yes, by set, to which the congresswoman replied, we should endorse when we get to it.

Starting point is 01:20:03 But I believe that the president's been doing a very good job so far. And you know, should he run again, I think that I, you know, I think we'll take a look at it, but right now we need to focus on winning the majority instead of presidential elections. So in other words, that's a professional way of avoiding the answering to questions. So that's what happens when you end up in business for a while. But people on both sides are sitting there saying, this guy is the least popular president we've ever had with Poles.

Starting point is 01:20:29 So, you know, if you're going to use Poles when you're winning, you also all to use Poles when you're losing. And it's not in a good situation. So, I think the middle's running America right now. And if there is a party that's recruiting the most people today, if there is a party that's recruiting the most people today, I think it's the middle. I don't think it's the left. I don't think it's the right, I think it's the middle.

Starting point is 01:20:48 Can I bring in some more psychology? Sure. So I feel like I should pay you for this. I'm getting a whole full-on mental breakdown right here. So I want you to imagine this as the cork of a wine bottle. Okay, I've explained this previously, but it's worth repeating. So there's an expression in Arabic. Arabic is my mother tongue.

Starting point is 01:21:04 So there's an expression in Arabic. Arabic is my mother tongue. So there's an expression in Arabic that basically says, getting drunk simply by smelling the cork of the wine bottle, which basically refers to when someone is so weak in his constituency, that they don't need to actually drink the wine to get drunk. They simply whiff it and they're already drunk. Now, how do we apply this to psychological processes? So look, now I'm gonna drink from the Obama cork, right?

Starting point is 01:21:27 Oh my God, he is so tall and lanky and he has a milifluous voice. And he speaks with the cadence of a Baptist minister. Now, every single syllable that he utters is pure, empty, vacuous bullshit. But my God, I'm getting drunk by the Obama cork, right? On the other hand, I'm going drunk by the Obama court, right? On the other hand, I'm going to now smell the cork of Trump. He's disgusting. He's an ogre, right? He speaks like a brash brawler from the Bronx, right? In both of those cases, when I got drunk, I never said anything of substance. I didn't say I like Obama because of his fiscal policy.

Starting point is 01:22:03 I hate Trump because of his immigration policy. What I'm using are peripheral cues, meaning cues that don't really matter to base my decision on, right? One is a presidential looking and acting. The other one is brash and an ogre. That's the problem with the psychology of voters. And that is that instead of activating their cognitive system, here are the seven reasons,

Starting point is 01:22:27 the substantive reasons why I love Biden or Trump. Most of the populists doesn't do that. They base peripheral cues. And that's why we end up with people voting for Biden, even though on every single person, they might prefer Trump. I know a lot of my colleagues who, when I challenge them on why do you vote

Starting point is 01:22:47 for Trudeau or right, they can never enunciate the position. He looked young, he looked youthful, he looked, he was handsome, he had a young family, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, right? None of these reasons should be valid reasons for why you should vote for him, but yet that's why we what happens we get intoxicated by smelling the cork. So, well, you're giving the personality versus policy debate. Exactly, right. But a lot of people do vote based on personality.

Starting point is 01:23:13 Exactly. So it's not based on policy you're saying, right? Right. Isn't that sad? Right? I mean, when you're, I don't think a lot of people are smart enough to break down policy by policy.

Starting point is 01:23:24 And that's not a knock on the American voter. I think most people just vote with their pocketbook. You know, as James Carville said, we brought up yesterday, it's the economy stupid. Clearly people are not happy with the economy right now. But a lot of times people will just look on screen and just say, yeah, like that guy. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:23:39 Or, nah, I don't like the way they talk. I'm into it, or I'm not into that. What's more important, that or winning the middle, is that or winning the middle, because I think the average voter does that. But the middle voter is sitting there, the independent voter, the guys in the middle, the independent, the libertarian, those guys

Starting point is 01:23:56 are sitting there saying they have, okay, so the pendulum of being able to reason, okay? Whoever can reason the most leads the country. The complainers are the complainers are the loudest, so they seem to be the biggest party. The complainers tend to recruit a lot of the people that are like, oh my gosh, so that's what's going on. Okay, so the complainers recruit the naive, but the complainers cannot recruit the reasonable

Starting point is 01:24:24 people that know how to reason. The people that are in the middle that are able to reason and they eventually have enough of a voice, you sit there and you say, huh, okay, this guy makes sense. Yeah, I agree with them. You know what? Yeah, that's what I'm gonna vote for.

Starting point is 01:24:40 Rogan, okay, again, goes back to Bill Martin, conversation we had briefly yesterday. I think the currency, again, this, you're going to hear me saying this a lot. I think the currency of reasoning is becoming very valuable today, not sensationalism, not crying, complaining, all of that stuff. Crying, complaining has been a very hot commodity the last 10, 20 years, especially the last two, three, four, five years, right? But you're gonna see the ability to reason become valuable again. This sounds weird for where people should say, well, this should have been valuable for a long time.

Starting point is 01:25:12 No, when social media came out, complainers got hot mic. And complainers got a chance to go out and blow up. And complainers became celebrities. AOC is a queen of complainers and look what happened to her. That was a hot commodity, right? Through a lot of complaining, she got a lot of eyeballs and she got people to say, yeah,

Starting point is 01:25:29 that's exactly right. That's it. And then people are like, uh, you just cost New York City 25,000 jobs at $150,000 your salary. That's the Amazon Amazon and Amazon one elsewhere. So you're complaining just cost us 25,000 good jobs. Yes, but if Amazon were to came, your rent would have gone up. Of course, do you want those 150,000 good jobs. Yes, but if Amazon would have came, your rent would have gone up. Of course, do you want those $150,000 out of your jobs?

Starting point is 01:25:49 No, they should go elsewhere. Other cities are like, dude, Amazon, we will gladly take you, buddy. They had a bidding ring. Those jobs to us will take it. So it's becoming sexy again to reason. Those who can reason, people are finding it very, very attractive and that's generally the people in the middle. Well, and I, people are finding it very, very attractive. And that's a general deal of people in the middle.

Starting point is 01:26:06 Well, and I think if I can speak about, you know, the platform that guys like Jordan and I have been able to build, I mean, I could have never imagined that 10, 15 years ago, I could ever have the type of platform that would have been reserved for, you know, rock stars and actors and so on. Right. So I think to your point, I think there is in the middle, the the silent majority are starving for Common sensical people who come and actually say exactly what they're thinking. This is why by the way Notwithstanding what you're talking about the academy. I agree with having those programs if we can just instill the courage in the Silent majority to speak out already the battle will be one

Starting point is 01:26:41 This is why I talk about activate your inner honey badger, right? Because I receive a million emails every week from people who say, I'm on your side, and their corrections officers and their truck drivers, and their fancy professors, but for whatever reason, they have this impediment whereby they're scared to speak their mind. They actually overestimate the risk.

Starting point is 01:27:01 I understand that you could be canceled. You could overestimate the risk. That underestimate. So they think canceled. You could overestimate the risk, that underestimate. So they think it's gonna be worse than it's actually going to be. Exactly. So for example, the administrators at the university who are beholden to the few loud activists, why are you always acquiescing to them?

Starting point is 01:27:20 Like, why is it that you are always catering your policies to the 10 people who are the most committed or the corporations to? Exactly. The corporations do the same thing. They think as though Disney is going to completely fall apart if we don't have ultra-woke stuff. So you overestimate the risks from the woke.

Starting point is 01:27:39 When in reality, look, I'm still standing. I don't want to jinx it, but apparently I'm uncancellable. I truly am like the tough-long king Well, I don't think it's because there's a magic recipe. It's simply because I don't care I'm not so afraid of it now you might come along and say, oh, but that's because you're tenured Therefore you're not afraid to lose your job But listen when I get a million death threats where I have to walk in on campus with security Tenured didn't protect me there, right? So when I almost got an anxiety attack because I don't know who's going to come at me, we have to file a police report

Starting point is 01:28:11 with the Montreal Police at my university because of the number of death threats. But I walk around like a honey budget. I'm not trying to tooth my horn, but look, it's better to live five minutes with integrity than 500 years as a coward, right? And so a lot of people that William Wallace is that true? I don't know that sounds like I just came up with the front top. I guess many people have had similar but the honey badger takes what he wants Honey Badger does I mean for those of you who don't know who are listening to the show the honey badger has been ranked as the fiercest animal in the world It's the size of a small dog and yet it could withstand the attack of six adult lions. The reason why I say six is because you could

Starting point is 01:28:49 probably go on YouTube now and see the that I'm thinking of. Yeah, I'm thinking of videos, right? Well, they are literally six adult lions that are intimidated by this one honey badge. Why? Because it's fierce. So be ideologically fierce.

Starting point is 01:29:01 If you've got a position that you think is worth while, you know, standing on, don't cover away. Don't be a little punk. If you've got a position that you think is worthwhile, you know, standing on, don't cower away. Don't be a little punk. There you go. There you go. Yeah, this guy's a badass. Can I ask you a question? And this goes to Pat's point of the middle runs America.

Starting point is 01:29:17 And I guess my question is, is America bipolar? Because every eight years, every four to eight years, the pendulum swings left to right, Republican to Democrat. Once the last time we've had consecutive Democrats in office or consecutive Republicans in office, to Pat's point in 2016, Hillary didn't campaign in the Midwest. She took it for granted.

Starting point is 01:29:41 Trump came in, he was all over Michigan, all over Ohio, all over Iowa. Boom. Shocker alert. He won the election 2020 the blue wall held what as they say and buy and won the election, but every four to eight years The pendulum swings. I think it's because hope springs eternal, right? Someone else said this So basically at any given point after a certain number of years that someone is in power, and my pocketbook is not doing well or whatever it is that I'm upset about, then the only thing that triggers in my head, why don't I switch now and go with the other folks maybe

Starting point is 01:30:14 they have, but that's change, change, change, change, change, change, change, change, change, right? So, one of the things that I found out and studying decision-making for 30 years is that we are far from being sort of the hyper-rational creatures that we are otherwise made out to be by classical economists. Classical economists have this view called homo-economicus. Homo-economicus means ultra-rational. You apply these decision-making procedures. You maximize utility. Whereas in reality, when you study human decision-making, we're ultra non-rational, right? We choose someone based on their height as a politician.

Starting point is 01:30:52 Well, what does your height have to do with your policies? But you simply look more presidential if you are tall. We haven't had a president under like six foot forever. Well, by the way, whenever someone tells me, hey, why don't you run for primus, I say, sorry, I'm too short to be a mistake. It doesn't matter what's in here. It the fact that I don't clock in at six feet, I'm out. But it is a thing.

Starting point is 01:31:11 It is a thing because people use these peripheral keys. If I'm tall, that means I'm dominant, I'm to be trusted. By the way, CEOs of companies are taller than average. Right? So the Napoleon Bonaparte, who has five foot four, is a very rare phenomenon. Most elected people, whether it be as a CEO, as president, are tall. Well, what's the story with Nixon and JFK in that debate? If you listened on radio back in

Starting point is 01:31:34 64, whatever it was, 61, if you listened on radio, you thought Nixon won the debate. But if you watched on TV, because I think it was the first televised debate, right, Pat? JFK won the debate, but if you watched on TV, because I think it was the first televised debate, right, Pat? JFK won the debate because he was more polished. He looked better. Nixon was a little more like disheveled, kind of bearded, five o'clock shadow. So attractiveness does matter. Yep, exactly right.

Starting point is 01:31:57 So then that means Joe Biden is sexy as hell. He's hotter than Leo and... Well, he's hotter than the Orange Man, I guess. It's hotter than the Orange Man. Yeah, somebody just commented saying, whether you vote Rockefeller Red or Rockefeller Blue in a new world order, the jokes on you, right? I mean, I don't know what that really,

Starting point is 01:32:15 obviously we know what the guys trying to insinuate. And he rhymed, too, congratulations. Yeah, smidly butler, good for you, man, total rapper. But you know You're saying all this stuff about where it's at and what's happening But again for me my confidence and peace of mind of the future being bright is this new movement of people who are able to reason Because if we go through the sequencing on how I believe it happens First there's a complainer

Starting point is 01:32:43 When there's a complainer the guy that has the ability to reason he's got better things to do than, there's a complainer. When there's a complainer, the guy that has the ability to reason, he's got better things to do than to argue with the complainer. Okay? So then the complainer, all of a sudden, creates momentum. And he recruits eight people, 22 people, 79 people, 328 people, now he's got 1200 people.

Starting point is 01:33:00 Then the guy who's got the ability to reason, sinners saying, dude, this guy's creating some momentum. Then the complainer starts converting some of the people that the guy who has the ability to reason thought they used to be reasonable. Okay. Then he says, I got to now get involved. Then the guy that has the ability to reason and he's got a backbone gets involved and start talking and reasons through all these issues. Then those people say, yeah, I forgot, I'm a guy that leans more towards a reasonable side, this complainer, you don't know what you're talking about,

Starting point is 01:33:27 I flip. I think there's a big awakening of people that can reason today. And that's what's happening. And it's exciting, because most people that have the ability to reason, and they're driven by logic, and they can have an argument

Starting point is 01:33:40 and kind of go through and listen to both sides. They're typically so busy living their lives. They have no tolerance or time to go and fight every single battle. Complainers want to fight every battle. Those who want a reason, they don't have that kind of attempt to do. What do you think, Gadsad talked about?

Starting point is 01:33:55 Anchoring. This is how I believe. I'm doubling down on my position. You're talking about being reasonable. What are the key elements in being reasonable? You have to hear both sides. You have to hear the motivations being reasonable? You have to hear both sides. You have to hear the motivations on both sides, the wise of both sides, the stories of both sides.

Starting point is 01:34:11 And then, like, for example, like right now, for me, okay, I'm trying to identify who's gonna be the next CEO of one of the companies, you know, two, three, four, five years from now, whatever timeline is, okay. So I have to go through everybody and have to process everybody and have to see the situation what everybody else is in. That guy's motivation is this. This guy's motivation is that he's got a shorter lifespan. That one's a little bit scared. This one's fully capable, just doesn't want the responsibility. That one

Starting point is 01:34:38 wants the responsibility and wants the job, but he's not capable. So you have to enhance that guy and he's a little bit more to it. That guy's more about his, you're looking at everything, and then you sit there and you say, okay, I think this is the best candidate. What you're describing is literally one of my lectures in my psychology,

Starting point is 01:34:58 the decision-making class. What are the types of decision rules that people use when they're making decisions in multi-attribute choices. You just described many attributes, motivation, lifespan and so on, right? So typically, you could do one of two things. You could either look at all of the attributes weighted by their importance, right? So for example, I'm choosing between different cars.

Starting point is 01:35:19 If gas efficiency is a more important attribute to me than price, then I will weigh it differently. I'll put it all together and I'll pick the car that scores the highest on all of those attributes. But oftentimes people don't do what you just said, Pat. What they do is what's called the lexical graphic rule. Lexical graphic rule means I only look at my most important attribute and I choose the alternative that scores highest on that attribute. So for example, if I were choosing between toothpaste and prices the most important attribute,

Starting point is 01:35:48 I'll pick the toothpaste that has the cheapest price. And that's it. So all the other 10 attributes I never looked at. That's what I used, by the way, as a psychological mechanism to explain why a lot of people voted for Trump, right? Because even if Hillary Clinton, when you put all of the attributes together, might have scored higher than Trump, many of the population only looked at a single actually. Let's suppose I'm an immigration guy. I only care about immigration, and if rightly or wrongly, I think that Trump scores better on immigration than Hillary.

Starting point is 01:36:18 I stop right there, I choose Trump. I was using that to explain the psychological mechanisms for why Trump won to Sam Harris. Sam Harris is a guy who went completely Trump the range of syndrome, right? I mean, every single person who voted for Trump must have been a Nazi. And I said, that's what Sam Harris said. I mean, no, I'm not saying said, but not the position he was sort of advocating. Sam Harris, you tell him any phenomenon he'll link it to Trump. You just got diabetes. He's going to explain to you. And by the phenomenon, he'll link it to Trump. You just got diabetes.

Starting point is 01:36:46 He's going to explain to you. And by the way, he's super brilliant. Is it the same Sam Harris who debating Sam Harris like? Ben Affleck. And actually, it's funny because I've always loved Sam. I appreciate him. He's supposed to be a rational guy, a meditation guy. But he's got Trump to range, he's got such Trump to range, a syndrome.

Starting point is 01:37:03 By the way, so does 50% of America. Exactly. Except that they don't pretend that they are the hyper rational guys that Sam Harris is, but Trump truly did break Sam's brain. And so I use that explanation to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, at least offer him a possible way to understand why people who are not Nazis and who sleep with their sisters could have voted for Trump, right? If I prefer, as I said, immigration, and that's the only attribute I look at, it will be

Starting point is 01:37:29 perfectly rational for me to choose Trump over Hillary. I don't have to be a Nazi who sleeps with my sister. And so decision-making is really an incredible field because it allows us to understand the cognitive processes that people go through in making a decision. How do I choose a mutual fund? How do I choose a decision. How do I choose a mutual fund? How do I choose a politician? How do I choose a mate? So this is pretty much what I've done in my academic career,

Starting point is 01:37:51 a study psychology and decision making. So you really are in my wheelhouse here. I will tell you, you know, for, for me years ago, when you're going through the conversation, when you're younger, all you wanna think about, what's the key to success, what's the key to success, hard work, choosing the right spots, doing this, doing that, doing this.

Starting point is 01:38:06 From everybody I've watched, winning business, or they did very well in life, the best ones were those who were better at making decisions and process the issues. So I always wanted to talk to a person and ask them how do you come to this conclusion? Because that process of how you came to this, if they're willing to tell you the real truth, because sometimes people will just give you the lazy answer.

Starting point is 01:38:28 I don't want the lazy answer. Give me the real answer. How did you come to this conclusion? And if they give you the real methodology of how came, they came to that conclusion, you just figured out a formula. Got it. So first there was that experience with your dad that you watched, and I left a mark. Okay, so that's deep That's emotional. That's painful. Got it then You notice that maybe you were yourself wrong But that happened to you when somebody treated you and judge you the way you judge your dad And you realized you didn't like it and say you're that must have not like it as well because that's

Starting point is 01:38:58 Got it three. You were hanging on to something that your dad did years ago to your mom and That's between them But you took it personally to you he never did it to your dad did years ago to your mom and that's between them. You took your personally to you. He never did it to you. He did it to your mom, but you love your mom. Fair. Okay, get it.

Starting point is 01:39:10 But that doesn't mean he did it. Glad. So you were able to let that go. How did you let that go? Through an experience you had spiritual, your rock bottom, grow, broke your heart. You lost somebody in your life. So did you need to go through that to make that decision? Yes.

Starting point is 01:39:23 No. Who knows? And then eventually, so there's a certain number. So we just went there. Yeah, no, no. Was that auto-bied grounds? No, he just went, boom, boom, boom. No, but we don't talk like that, but we decide like that. So if we're able to call a timeout and say, got it,

Starting point is 01:39:40 here's what we're doing with this part. This totally makes sense. Here's what we're gonna do next. Like when we wanted to move from California to Texas, okay, I sat in the room and I'm looking at everybody. I got, Moral, who's about to get married. I got her husband. Certified to try that to take care of.

Starting point is 01:39:56 Yeah, totally. I got all these guys sitting in front of me. I'm like, okay, how am I gonna sell Texas to these guys? So I saw what an open-ended question. I'll never forget this meaning. It was in 2011, okay, and I say, so guys, what do you think about Texas? Texas?

Starting point is 01:40:09 Oh, man, I've heard such bad things about Texas. Really, tell me what you've heard. Did you know that Texas distance, so now they start saying about the Texas stuff? Mac can never go to work in cowboy uniform, like, you know, you have to wear these belts. I see you think people in Texas wear buckles? Yeah, I mean, that's, what a horn with a belt.

Starting point is 01:40:25 You think on a freeway, you know, hey, I'm going to get a living in Prisco. So then eventually, gradually, I took all the concerns and I brought back stories to dress every concern. And I did it over and over and over again. And then I had to sell Jen Jen didn't want to move. I had to sell Melva Melva didn't want to move. I had to sell family.

Starting point is 01:40:42 I had to sell in Placelo and eventually in a guys. We have a meeting with Governor Perry and mayor of Frisco, mayor Masso and we're gonna go meet with Nolan Ryan and we're going to meet with Don Nelson and we're gonna make a decision whether we like Texas or not but look we may not like it let's just see what it's like then we go to Texas we spend a whole day with them then on the flight back I'm like so what you guys think about Texas? Well you, it's just more impressive than I thought. And I'm saying, okay, and then two months later, guys, we're moving to Texas. So it sounds like they weren't anchored on their, uh, four, it took four years to move

Starting point is 01:41:14 everybody. So why did you move from Texas to here? Why I move from Texas to here. Yeah, you, you, so you want California to Texas than to here? Yeah. So you remember how hard I was fighting to stay in Texas. Remember what you had to walk me through those list of issues of Adam is in love with Addison. Adam used to live in this community called Addison and he was

Starting point is 01:41:32 Jesus. He was Jason, Jason, Yardhouse, and this Jason from Yardhouse. But Born and raised him by me, I did not want to come back. This is a very good question though, because there's the argument of Texas to here's a different story. So to me, Texas on a golf score is probably the best place to live on a golf score, raising kids, career, job, travel, airport,

Starting point is 01:41:58 taxes, regulation, balance, left alone, mixture, you got every national of living, cost of living in every way. It's a, I would specifically put Dallas at the top and I would probably put, you know, Dallas, Houston, Austin, pick and choose. Okay, San Antonio, Barkley's not a fan of San Antonio for different reasons, but we're not going to get into that. The basketball passways that I found.

Starting point is 01:42:20 San Antonio women are pretty. Yeah, it's a big. So, but you got all these markets that you're looking at. So for us, it got to a point where we kept coming to Florida for a breakers hotel, which I love breakers hotel. We've got a few of you stay there before or not. It's beautiful. I spent all day yesterday at Palm Beach.

Starting point is 01:42:38 Beautiful. I love breakers. I love Palm Beach. And then we started one day accidentally. We're sitting outside. I'm having a cigar and it's like midnight, you're gin and iron, you're having a glass of wine right outside of breakers.

Starting point is 01:42:48 And I said, babe, this reminds me of Bandar Palavi, in Iran, when my grandparents had a place there and it was by the water, it was humid. It was bipolar weather, one minute is raining, next minute. It's so emotionally I got connected. I love the water, I'm a water guy. And lifestyle-wise, I love the lifestyle here. I said for 20 years, I've been going 80 hours a week. I want to still go 80 hours a week, but I want to do 80 hours a week by the water. Yeah. And so we kept everything

Starting point is 01:43:15 there and we moved the media company here because I felt it'd be a lot easier recruiting talent from New York or DC or Baltimore to South Florida, then it would be to recruit people to Dallas. Anything we can build a media company out of Dallas, based on the people that we wanted to recruit. So that's how the decision makes it possible. It's very instructive the decision making that you may go through because I just came back from Austin, where I gave two talks at UT Austin

Starting point is 01:43:40 and they might be interested in extending an offer. And then I met the people from University of Austin. I don't know if you guys heard of that new university. Very white. Very white. I don't know if that's the right name, but yes, she's involved with it. So it's a new university that's trying to sort of position itself as a classical liberal school anti-woke, you know, critical thinking.

Starting point is 01:44:02 And so I'm at the president of that university. And so my wife and I are exactly facing that decision if we decide to eventually leave Montreal is Texas better or is Florida, but I guess your final consulting advice would be come to Florida. Well, here's here's the other part with Florida versus Texas. The left has really targeted Texas the last 20 years. They've moved people to Texas to convert Texas, and they're winning. From red to purple to blue. You got it, right?

Starting point is 01:44:34 Right now Texas is probably, it used to be Florida being a purple state, right now it's probably more Texas being a purple state. Okay, if it isn't already there, it's on its way to be in there. Florida just flipped red. They got two more on the right. So now it's more of a red state than a purple state. Adam doesn't like that, but it is now a red state. Florida. The governor is young. So if your run rate

Starting point is 01:44:56 is, you assume this guy's going to run, some say he's going to run. I don't think he's going to run against Trump. I don't think it's a good idea. But let's just say he runs. If he runs, would one of his guys replace and take Florida as a governor? Who knows? If he stays for six years and he's done a good job, the state's probably gonna want another guy like him to run, so let's say that protects you

Starting point is 01:45:15 for another 10 years. So the next time a leftist type of a person takes office to be a governor, it's probably gonna be 10 years from now, which is 2032. Between now and 2032, you have enough run rate to do whatever you wanna do and build up for yourself. So I think life's, and I think Austin,

Starting point is 01:45:32 I don't know if you've been to Austin with the homelessness. It's not a good situation when it comes onto the homelessness. And Austin's probably also the most woken city in all of Texas. I know a lot of people have Austin, I know Musk is there, and a lot of people are there,

Starting point is 01:45:47 but I think Austin's gonna be the stepping stone to end up in Florida. I think it's like a pit stop for a lot of people. I think it's gonna be two, three, four, five years, and the next thing people are gonna say, well, I think I'm moving to Florida. So you don't regret your decision. Let me tell you why else,

Starting point is 01:46:03 because what is a very big influence in where you live is a community that gravitates to a place. Like Armenians move to Glendale, California. Right. So guess where we move to? Glendale, California. Assyrians are in Torlach.

Starting point is 01:46:18 If you live in Torlach, Modesto, you know a lot of Assyrians. If you're in Detroit, there's a lot of Assyrians. You can say where the Irish move to. You can say where Italians live, you know, New York, certain parts, where Dominicans live, where Mexicans live, Salvadorians live, Puerto Ricans live. I look at the youngest movement that's taken place that are for the most part independent thinkers that think for themselves and they can reason, that's the crypto community. The crypto community are filled with they think for themselves.

Starting point is 01:46:50 Okay, this doesn't mean they're left or right, but they will think for themselves. Right. They don't like control, they don't like authority, they don't like people telling what to do. They want to be left alone, they don't like centralized, they want decentralized. That's the mindset of somebody that can think for themselves. The crypto capital, the world is becoming Miami themselves. The crypto capital, the world, is becoming Miami. If the crypto capital, the world is becoming Miami, those types of thinkers are moving to Miami, right? Okay.

Starting point is 01:47:14 So then, if you think about you wanting to move to South Florida, then you have to go based on age, the younger you are, the more South you are. If you want to be around people that are older, the more north you are. So if you're in your 70s and 80 move to Vera Beach If you're in your 40s for a lot of those good if you're in your 40s acting like you're in your 20s You may want to live in Miami. Hey, I don't anybody like that guys. I don't know Yes, so that's that's the processing when it comes on to Well, thank you for that and your tan which is on point right like I may add

Starting point is 01:47:43 You're gonna like that a lot better here in South Florida I then and Canada my wife looked at me. She goes how the hell do you get so dark so quickly? I'm literally we just we're just walking around like a Middle Eastern. Hello. We're talking about exactly right exactly right You've the same problem you have but if you but if you talk to Nikki freed Nikki freed would say a lot of people on Florida are not happy with Florida Did you see what happened? Nikki free running for governor of Florida. Did you see what happened? Who's the talk for free? Nicky Freed. Nicky Freed running for governor of Florida.

Starting point is 01:48:06 Oh, I see. Okay. She was, she was, she was kind enough to come and be on the podcast last Saturday, not last Saturday, this Saturday or last Saturday, like eight days ago or something like that. And then we had Jedadaya Billa here, which Jedadaya just launched her show, Jedadaya Billa live. She didn't, she's now doing her show three times a week. She's from Fox, right?

Starting point is 01:48:24 She's from Fox and she was on the view. You're all right. Now she's here with us. She just moved to your couple months ago and we're hosting her podcast. And she's crushing it. She's absent. She's an absolute beast.

Starting point is 01:48:34 You're gonna see that show blow up with what she's got going on. Horan Nikki had a exchange. If you've not seen it, you have to see it. By the way, do we put the exchange of them too on YouTube for just to put Jedadai, Vila versus Nikki the way, do we put the exchange of them to on YouTube for just to put Jedadai, Vila versus Nikki Friede? Have we put that together or not?

Starting point is 01:48:49 There's a few from up there. Okay, yeah, because I thought that exchange was so powerful, them going back and forth. So by the way, Nikki Friede, some of her policy positions in our talking points, I didn't exactly agree with, but I gotta give her a kudos for coming on, holding her own. She's welcome here anytime. She wants to her own. She's welcome here anytime. She wants to come back. She's welcome here anytime. Have you ever had a guest that you were

Starting point is 01:49:11 incredibly excited to have? Hence, you invited them, but then once you don't have to give names, but then once they came here, they completely tanked and you're, you're busy without giving name. There might be a certain candidate for president that was been here. So when I used to, when I used to do, uh, yeah, I mean, listen, Joe Jorgensen, I will say the name because that was like people talk about it, not because in a bad way, but I wanted, like, I brought Joe Jorgensen because I wanted to go deeper in libertarian policies. You know, Joe Jorgensen, yeah, yeah. And she didn't want to do that.

Starting point is 01:49:45 And when basic questions were asked, I didn't, you know, push it too hard. I asked her basic questions, who's the toughest debate you've ever had. You know, because a lot of times people in your world, they just talk a lot and there's no pushback. There's no debate from the world like the Stanford people they you're talking to. You're to get pushed back because if you're in the circle, people

Starting point is 01:50:07 are going to push back. You're wrong, you're this, you're that, and you'll banter with them, whether it's on Twitter. There's a part of it that I think actually likes that, too, have that banter. I don't think she has been punched. It's like the person that's read all the books on boxing and has watched all the fights, but hasn't been in too many fights. Well, that's the concept of Antifragility, right? Yeah, you need to be exposed to stressors for your system. He's a beast by the way He's a beast. Have you done stuff with him or no? No anti-Fried. Oh, of course. I see. I see. He's a good friend. Oh, yeah He's somebody that I

Starting point is 01:50:39 Listen, I had every single one of my executives in the company read skin in a game everybody Yeah, it folks if you the company read skin and a game. Everybody. Yeah. Folks, if you haven't read skin and a game, even if it's not a newer book, it's like five, six years old, whatever, eight years old, highly recommend reading that book. But you know, one of the things that I can, I can put on my CV with pride is sick book. Is it for your author? Or you've never read this? Oh, buddy, this is like mandatory reason

Starting point is 01:51:05 for anybody that wants to become better at reason. Let me tell you a story about Nassim. Nassim basically hates 99% of humanity, right? To him, everybody is a fraud, everybody's a charlatan. Now, I'm lucky enough to have never made it into that camp. I've always been in the, you know, psychologists are full of shit. This is Nassim speaking, except God's had.. This isn't a seam speaking, except God's hat.

Starting point is 01:51:26 All these academics are full of shit, except, you know, God's hat. And so I've always said, as long as I've gotten a seam on my side, I think I'm doing the right thing, because this guy truly is a, I mean, he's a honey badger, maybe on steroids, in the sense that he tends to go after people sometimes in a rough way where they, they don't necessarily deserve it. I mean, I don't know if you agree with that. He, he's a fantastic guy. He's a lovely guy. He's, he's a very good friend. We spoke on the phone. He's in Lebanon now a couple of weeks ago.

Starting point is 01:51:53 But he's Lebanese as well. He, he's also that guy is, and he, I mean, he does not suffer fools godly, you know, I mean, he's a, he goes after you. By he goes after you're a self identified honey badger. I am trivia question for the both of you Yeah, what NFL pro-bola Heisman candidate is nicknamed the honey badger. Oh, no Famous name. It's like the the nicknamed to give me position what position is it plays defense defensive back Yeah, I like the offense. I figured you would know this. This is like this guy's nickname. He's like a safety That's true for sure That's my son actually point. I don't remember his name, but he said daddy look. They're using your term

Starting point is 01:52:32 I actually play for who did he play for place for Kansas? I'm actually for Kansas City for a long time It's you. How do you say Tyrone? Is he a recent guy number two? Yeah, he's his famous guy. 32. He almost won the Heisman. You might have even won the Heisman. I don't know. Very famous. Who's this? Tyrone Matthew.

Starting point is 01:52:50 Yeah, number 32. Okay. Pro Bowl. Check check. Yeah, number 32. The Honey Bad. Yeah, yeah. That was his nickname.

Starting point is 01:52:58 Bad ass. He's a beast. By the way, Brady talk so much trash to the day went back and forth, but this guy didn't back down. Brady didn't back down. And by the way, going back to Joe Jorgensen, I walked away, I walked away thinking to myself, are they prepping candidates? Like are they doing the behind the closed doors conversations?

Starting point is 01:53:19 What is the process for somebody to be the candidate? And then we had Dave Smith here and I said, how does the libertarian party, do you know how the libertarian party chooses their VPs? No. The candidate doesn't, the party does. So did you know this or no? So the split-jones is explaining that. Not spike, joint spike, common spike, joint spike.

Starting point is 01:53:37 You went to complete it from this guy to the way off, by the way. So no, but libertarian party, you don't pick your VP. You run and you run to become the VP. So you run not only to become the president, the nominee, but you also run to become the VP, which means there is no synergy between the two, which I think that system is broken because they gotta get along.

Starting point is 01:53:58 They gotta be on the same page. Very weird, there's certain changes that parties gotta make. Their arguments a lot of them I fully agree with, but Joe Jorgencins threw me off. I've had a few other interviews that I did where I was like, this is going to be not that good, but ended up being great. Those are the ones that are very... Why do you ask that question, by the way?

Starting point is 01:54:18 Just because I'm someone who just lives life to its fullest, and so I'm always when I wake up and I have a guest coming, I'm always kind of gleeful. I'm excited. I'm very happy. Have you always yours? Have you had one of the one that impressed me or the ones that I gave you? Oh, but, yeah. Negative, yes, I had a political scientist

Starting point is 01:54:37 from I think Boston University that was a total debt. As you know, inviting someone simply because they have good credentials won't necessarily lead to a good conversation. They have to also have the personality. So if you bring someone and you're pulling teeth because they answer you very dry, and especially if you're doing it remotely,

Starting point is 01:54:54 where you need to get a fire out of you, man. And if I can't get that, it's gonna die very quickly. And for us to maintain the for an hour. So I would say probably that guy, just because of his personality. Who is better than expected? Meaning you're like, oh, I'm excited for this,

Starting point is 01:55:07 but whoa, bam, that turned out to be incredible. Well, the most powerful one was a gentleman who spent 29 years in prison for a murder that he didn't commit. Oh, that's exciting. And I actually have him in the last chapter of my next book that I'm working on now recipe for the good life I I use them as an example for how to live without anger in your heart because as we were chatting

Starting point is 01:55:32 I said to him power, you know you you must be the new age Buddha Because if I were in your position you're a much better man than I am because if I were in your position I'd want to be burning down the world. Right. Because I would be so angry in venomous. And yet the guy was so gracious. He had such gratitude at life. And actually, he said something very powerful to me, which I discuss in the book. His sister, I think, suffers from cerebral palsy and she's bedridden her whole life. And so I said, well, how did you do it to stay so grounded?

Starting point is 01:56:06 He said, well, look, I see what my sister's going through and yet she has a smile on her face. So I had no reason to be filled with hate in my heart. So a guy just spent almost three decades in prison and is acting with such incredible grace. And so I said, I need to talk. So I would probably say of all the great guests I've had, that guy's life lesson is right up there.

Starting point is 01:56:30 By the way, that's his name. When I hear stories like that, it's heartbreaking and then how they can be, it's un-positive about it all. But we did have a guest recently, I won't say the name where he was, what I would say, non-committal. Or you could go either way with it.

Starting point is 01:56:46 I. Holder gentleman. Yeah, I'm about to talk about. And by the way, we took him out to dinner. Yeah. And during dinner, I remember the dinner. Do you remember the dinner? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:55 Yeah, so you know, you're like food? Not really. I was so excited for him too. I was like, I've been watching. What's he your guess? He was you nominated him. I've been following that guy for five know I always say by the way he he's he's a qualified genius like he's got well that's the problem right yeah I don't like

Starting point is 01:57:13 fence sitters I always say that the ones who equivocate are never the ones who are interesting to hang out with you want people who I mean you want that if they're opinionated they back it up but the ones who are always equivocating on defense, they're very boring. Would you say that this gentleman that we haven't mind was a fan sitter? Yeah. But but you know who I liked a lot who called me a freaking asshole on the interview at the end. Do you know who Thomas Jefferson's is a what's the guy's name? It's a he's got one of those Lucian Truscott. Yes. You ever seen this one? No. Yeah. I had Lucian Truscott. Yes. You ever seen this one?

Starting point is 01:57:45 No. Yeah, I had Lucian Truscott on and I asked him a question. I said, so you won Thomas Jefferson's statue to be replaced by Harriet Tubman and you want it to be removed to a different place. I never said, remove, I said, but you wanted to go to a different location and replace. Yes. I said, what's your problem with Thomas Jefferson? And this is his great, great, great, great grandfather. And I said, so why do you have such a big problem with Thomas Jefferson. This is his great, great, great, great grandfather. And I said, so why do you have such a big problem with Thomas

Starting point is 01:58:08 Jefferson? He just kept saying stuff, saying stuff, saying stuff. Find a clip real quick, because it's very entertaining. It's right off the bat. You'll see it. Anyways, eventually I said, eventually I said, so who's your favorite president? He didn't want to answer it.

Starting point is 01:58:22 I said, tell me who's your favorite president? And he said, Barack Obama. Click on it. I said, tell me who's your favorite president. And he said, Barack Obama. Click on it. He said, Barack Obama. I said, and then go to all the way to the end. Just take it all the way to the end, all the way to the end, all the way to the end, all the way to the end, all the way to the end, a little bit back, little bit back, little bit back. I've had a blast with you. Yeah. My favorite one of all time. Yeah. I wish you nothing but the best. Okay. All good. Take care yourself. Goodbye. Bye. He doesn't seem to have a listen. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Oh, yeah. I wish you nothing but the best. Okay. All good. Take care yourself. Goodbye. Bye. What a fucking asshole.

Starting point is 01:59:11 And I got to tell you, it's one of my top 10 favorite interviews of all time. You know why though? You know why though? Because he actually has a position. Yeah. And he was pushing so hard. And he was, he was like, he was hardcore on his position. And we had banter and it was, it was exciting was exciting. So why were you in F&H asshole because you were challenging him on his position? Yeah, because because the only people he interviews with is people that agree with him. And I was surprised that he said yes, because I asked for me, he said yes, it's a great.

Starting point is 01:59:38 See, this is the challenge when sometimes I got just a YouTube brand. They're like, Oh, shit, I'm sitting down with you. Yeah, I'm sitting with this guy. Oh, I wasn't ready for this. We should have done a little research. I had no idea. I thought this was just a, that's all good. I'm kind of glad you didn't do any research.

Starting point is 01:59:51 Thank you for not doing research because it allows us to have a little more fun. Here's another question for you. Do you think that given your Middle Eastern background that you, you know, take your foot off the pedal and are nicer to guess precisely because of the hospitality culture. And before you answer, I do that because on Twitter when I engage people, I can be quite Erasible, right? If you start pissing me off, I'm gonna come after you and your ancestors and your future descendants, right?

Starting point is 02:00:18 I can be combative, right? But if you come on my show, all that goes away because you're now a guest mind. Yes. And it's just simply gauche for me to so people will sometimes get upset at me and say, why didn't you destroy this guy? I said, but he was a guest. I can't. I, there's a code of conduct once you agree to be in my home.

Starting point is 02:00:37 Yeah. And so I'm wondering if you have the same kind of etiquette. Yes. But, but if you're, if you, if it if it gets lucky so for me many times I've done interviews and I've looked like a fool because I didn't know the information and the other person's but I'm learning. Yeah, yeah So I'm not doing this because I'm trying to teach the world about what I know that my expertise is business I'm doing this because I'm going through the process of learning and recreating Myself and I have certain philosophy, if you sin beliefs and I wanted to get stronger and the only way that happens is

Starting point is 02:01:06 By people saying you're wrong wrong, and tell me why. That's what I've never thought about that before. How about this? And then we go into that mood where it gets heated and there's a lot of banter, then comes out good ideas. So I enjoy those and I'm respectful, but I have no problem pushing the envelope.

Starting point is 02:01:20 I mean, you have to realize, I've sat with Samuida Bulgurvano. I mean, this guy's not like a, you know, I've sat with, Michael Francis, yes. I've sat with the mobsters, I've sat with Phil Lienetti, the former under boss of the Philadelphia Crime Family. I've sat with, you know, people that I've done 30 years jail time, I wanna know, like,

Starting point is 02:01:39 what the motive is with certain things. So, very, respect no matter who the individual is. This does mean you support what life this person lived, but it's purely respect to want to learn. And it's worked out well, but today, listen, it was great having you on. Finally, to meet you face to face. Truly. I've enjoyed it so much. Thank you so much for coming out. I like that. I like that yesterday. We had a descendent of the Godfather on yesterday with Michael French. Shout out to him. And now we've got the actual Godfather on it. Two days back to back different kind of Godfather.

Starting point is 02:02:09 Exactly. Folks, if you haven't read his book, please put the link below for people to be able to go by his book. Thursday, we're doing a podcast against day two for that. We'll see you guys in two days. One is your podcast. You're doing Thursday as well. And is there anything you got something going on with the day?

Starting point is 02:02:24 We're figuring it out. We're figuring it out is there anything you got something going on with dating stuff? We're figuring it out. We're figuring it out. We'll see what's going on. Sounds good. Jedadiah today, 1 p.m. Jedadiah today, 1 p.m. Having said that brother, thank you so much for coming out.

Starting point is 02:02:33 Thank you. Take care everybody. Bye bye bye bye bye. Ciao. That was good. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld.

Starting point is 02:02:52 Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. Yn yw'n gweld. you

PBD Podcast - 'The Gadfather' - Gad Saad | PBD Podcast | Ep. 164

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