PBD Podcast - The Rational Male: Rollo Tomassi | PBD Podcast | EP 124

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by the author of the #1 Best Selling book series, "The Rational Male" Rollo Tomassi and Adam Sosnick. They discuss How Rollo Tomassi Became "The Rational Male", the difference between 'Red pilled' and 'Blue pilled', The different phases of men and women, How we know when men find women the most attractive, What can a person do to improve their sexual market value, Attraction floors for men vs. women, Transitioning from single life to married life. TOPICS How Rollo Tomassi Became "The Rational Male" Who agrees with the book and who disagrees The difference between 'Red pilled' and 'Blue pilled' The different phases of men and women How we know when men find women the most attractive  How Rollo Tomassi lives as a married man in his profession  What can one person do to improve their sexual market value?  How does money factor into relationships? Purchase "The Rational Male" here: https://amzn.to/3sqftwz Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list About Guests: Sometimes called the "Godfather of the Red Pill", Rollo Tomassi has been a permanent fixture in the 'Manosphere' for 20 years. With a focus on evolutionary psychology and objectivism, Rollo brings a pragmatic, nuts & bolts, approach to intersexual dynamics, men and women's innate natures and their effects on today's society. Connect with him on instagram here: https://bit.ly/3HzLNU8 Adam “Sos” Sosnick has lived a true rags to riches story. He hasn’t always been an authority on money. Follow Adam on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj. You can also check out his weekly SOSCAST here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw4s_zB_R7I0VW88nOW4PJkyREjT7rJic Connect with Patrick on social media: https://linktr.ee/patrickbetdavid About the host: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media, the #1 YouTube channel for entrepreneurship with more than 3 million subscribers. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.   Bet-David is passionate about shaping the next generation of leaders by teaching the fundamentals of entrepreneurship and personal development while inspiring people to break free from limiting beliefs to achieve their dreams.  Follow the guests in this episode: Rollo Tomassi: https://bit.ly/3HzLNU8 Adam Sosnick: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: [e-mail]   Check out PBD's official website here: https://bit.ly/32tvEjH --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

Santa Monica. Santa Monica. Yeah, they were live. So okay, folks, today's episode one 24 is with Rola Tomasi, the rational male. We're going to talk about what it is to be alpha, what it is to be beta. I think the question of the day, to be honest with you, everybody wants to know what is a soy boy. It's like especially for our podcast, it's a critical guess or no. Never heard that again. Never heard that again. Never heard that again. Soymil and Mafia,

we're gonna talk about the black pill. We're gonna talk about a lot of pills that apparently people are taking the blue, the red, the black. Apparently there's a white pill. Okay. I wanted to get your thoughts on that. I know we got some current events

that we're gonna get into. So having said that, the book, the rational male. Okay, I think it's nine different things that you talk about in there. There's a lot of things that you talk about in there. Yeah. So, how did you go? How's a guy that's been married nearly for 30 years, write a book about how to be an alpha male and rational male? Well, first off, I think you need to define what is an alpha male, that is a beta male. When I talk about alpha or beta, I'm talking about in terms like abstract terms. So it's not like, the comparison isn't where silverback

gorillas or wolves on the Arctic dundra or something like that. It's a placeholder term, it's an abstraction. To say there are guys who are of a higher class or of a higher value than there are of guys who are just sort of run the mill guys, average men right now. So when you say something like alpha or beta, people want to turn it into sort of like scientific terms, like etymological terms, right? They want to say, well, your guys are just comparing

yourselves to, you know, gorillas or something like that. It has nothing to do with it whatsoever. So defining what that is, the book is not necessarily meant to say, okay, here's how you be in alpha male kind of thing. What my work has done over the course of the last 20 years now has been to explore intersectional dynamics. As a part of that, yes, male nature is a part of that, female nature is a part of that. And how do those two natures play on each other?

And how do they do that from a macro, asking me a micro level to a macro level. So all the way down to, you know, what is it that makes a guy attractive? What is it that makes a woman attractive? And then from that point, from that point forward, it's how do they come together? How do they have sex?

How do they form families? And from those families, how do they form tribes? From those tribes, how do they form nations? How do they, and on and on. But you have to go all the way back and sort of distill it down to the intersectional dynamics between men and women. And that's what I attempted to do in the first book. And then I've got three other books since then that are supplements to the first book.

Roll over before you became this rational male. Like you guys are doing a community college competition over here. Who had a better community college upbringing and passed the DMS on PCC, you guys all. We can't go close. But was this, did you go to school for this? Did you learn, you know, on the go, were you out with your party guy?

Well, like, as Pat always asks, like, who were you in high school? Like, did you have a situation that happened? You're like a girl broke her heart. Like, that's never gonna happen again. Everyone's past. How did this happen? Okay, so this is standard question.

Clearly one on one to speak. Okay, so first thing is, I've been married for 25 years as of July of last year. I was, so thank you. And so people always ask me that how did you come into this situation? Did somebody break your heart? Was there some point like,

well, how did you get red-pilled kind of thing? And it was a more like a slow process, not necessarily some sort of, you know, break-up or anything, like there's no catalyst to, you know, oh, well, I'm going to, this is going to make this my life's mission. It wasn't about that. It was just curiosity for a very long time. I grew up, as I said in Southern California. I was part of like, say, the late 80s, early 90s,

you know, metal scene that was going on in Hollywood. And the top of me, I said, yeah. And so from there, you know, I kind of got my act together after a while. I mean, I've been through bad rib breakups just like anybody else has, but that was not necessarily the catalyst for me to say, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I have had a very, I say, unique set of circumstances over the course of my life.

So going from that situation from Southern California just sort of being a kid, really, my 20s, wanting to have a good time, wanting to party, wanting to get, you know, certainly was about the money back then. It was more about getting laid. So that was my impetus at that point. And then, of course, you mature, you get a little bit older,

met my wife in a Lake Tahoe area. And so from that point, you have kids, and you reassess where it is from what you want to do, and set goals for yourself and mature. I'm generation X, so maybe that's that had something to do with it as well. But's really we have a lot of listeners. They're what 18 to 40 give or take for the most part Summer singles summer and getting out of college somewhere in relationships summer married What's the outcome of this conversation just so we're all in the same page is it to expose?

What's really going on out there? You're gonna drop some knowledge? Hey, this is what you guys got to do to improve your life. Where we go, just so we can set the tone of the entire conversation. So, if there is a purpose or a point to my writing, it is to educate. It is to educate guys to give them the tools so that they can make informed decisions when it comes to their personal life, first and foremost. And second of all, from that point,

where do you go from there? How do you change your life? I am not in the business of making men better men. I am in the business of giving men the tools So that they can make themselves better men. I mean, I'm in the business of not prescriptions But descriptions and so what happens is then people will take those guys will take those and better their lives save their Save their own lives and in many instances as well And then it's not just about getting laid. A lot of people want to mischaracterize

what it is that I do and say, well, it's just those pickup artists. It's just those, you know, we're talking about pickup artists in 2022, about pickup artists that were in the scene back in 2002. So we're talking about 20 year old. We're talking about the game by the way, was published in 2005.

All the events in there took place between, like, say, 20 or 2002 and 2004. So fair to say the game has changed. Very much so. And I think we want to run back to that when we want to mischaracterize and we want to dismiss and ridicule all of that. But it is matured to the point where it used to be

just about, you know, PUA and like, how do I get laid? Guys come together on forums. They start comparing notes. It's sort of this aggregate of information between guys all over the world. I think a pro-cho. Well, it was the first time in history where we had the internet where guys could get together

and sort of compare notes all over the world. And from that point, it was, it snowballed from there into how do I live a better life? How do I, how do I find, if that's what they wanted to do, how do I find a girlfriend? It's not all about notch count. A lot of guys use the red pill just so they can get a girlfriend in the first place,

or go from being a quote unquote, permavergent to getting a girlfriend or getting into a situation where they're in a relationship at that point. So it's all about what you do with it, rather than, okay, well, this is the point. This is the importance of it. It doesn't have any particular point to it.

It's a proxology, not an ideology. Got it. So, question for you. This book, Rational Mill. Who agreed with you? Who disagreed with you? Who said, I, holding a gree with what he has to say. Dude, the guy's full of shit.

He has no clue what he's talking about. Okay, you're right, Bugs, you're gonna have people from both sides. Absolutely. Who liked it? Who liked it? Who liked it? Still do.

It's mostly guys that hate it. Really? Uh-huh. Interesting. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you a really quick funny story here. When I was writing the second book, which is the preventive medicine, it's a timeline and everything that you were to expect

from women at certain phases of maturity, I started that book with an introduction because I had a guy relate the story to me that he was reading the first book, Rational Mail. And he was there checking it out on his couch or something, his girlfriend, his wife, whoever came in and said, the Rational Mail, there's no Rational Mail, he was laughing at it.

She said, give me that, I'll decide, what this is all about. The girl read it. Yeah, the girl read it. She grabbed it from him and took her like maybe three or four days to read it. She just like, give me that. I'll decide what this is all about. The girl read it. Yeah, the girl read it. She grabbed it from a sugar like maybe three or four days to read it. She just like ate it up. She comes back to the guy at the end of the week

and she tosses it back from me. She says, everything in that book is correct. And you shouldn't know any of it. And that was a, and that, and I shouldn't know in any way. Because it gives away the game. It gives away the mechanics, the underpinnings of what's going on, sort of the dance between men and women. And that's when I get hate from guys. It's usually because they don't know how to apply this. Or it conflicts with a very deeply held ideology.

Like they're ego-invested in this, what we call, you know, the blue pill ideas, where it's like, this is what you've been taught from, from a, from a societal perspective, from a Western societal perspective. This is how men are, this is how women are, and this is what you can expect from. And then they'll get into that point where they have, or they have that bad breakup, or they have that bad divorce, or they're going through some kind of trauma. And it's only at that point where they go, they start questioning about, you know, was what I taught, you know, for real or not.

And so this, you know, the work that I do kind of steps in and fills in those blanks. So, I'm sure that a lot of our conversation is gonna be based around the red pill and being red pill, then blue pill. Apparently it's a black pill. I don't know if there's a white pill, but, would you break down what each of these pills are

and exactly? I wish we could get past the stupid pill thing. Okay. I really wish we could. Okay, so first and foremost, the red pill in the way that I talk about it, I only refer to it in terms of intersectional dynamics. Okay.

Ever since we started using that terminology, and I can go back to my old forum post from 2004 and show you the posts where we were talking about the matrix and unplugging because that was the closest analogy workable analogy. And so over the years since I beg of it about 2004 over the years, it has morphed into like MRAs, MIG-Tiles, the Black Pill, which is a more like despondent nihilistic doomer, the Dune Pill kind of thing, like a hopelessness. And then there's the guys who are simply Red Pill where they take this information

and they use it to their own benefit. As far as the blue pill is concerned, we tend to refer to that as like your upbringing, your understanding of society would like you to believe how things work. White pill is just something that's sort of, it's more like the purple pill at this point where you got the red pill and the blue pill and guys become red pill and they read the book and they become aware of intersectional dynamics, but it conflicts with their ideologies or their religions or their philosophies.

And so what they'll do is they'll pick and pull parts out of my book or whoever's podcasts they happen to be watching. And then use that and jump on top of that and then just reject whatever parts that don't fit in with their ideologies. So really the white pill is just sort of this, it's meant to be sort of this positivity movement, but again, it just picks and pulls from Red Pill awareness, let's just say. Again, I really wish we could get past the Red Pill

because I remember back in like 2015, 2016, when Trump was running for office, everybody settling was Red Pill about politics or Red Pill about whatever, whatever your pet ideology happened to be. And that was, you know, the blue pill was false and the red pill was true then therefore, you know, the red pill became a verb.

You're saying it's a lot of a kind of a project. You're saying it's a lot of a project. Well, Francis, you've been using for a decade. For instance, Candace Owens, when she was on Twitter, she used to call herself red-pilled black. That was her handle on Twitter before she became Candace, right? And so it was this appropriation of what seemed like a good, you know, tag or a hashtag or a buzz word

that worked at that time. Now, I would say that a lot of people will say, oh, I got Red Pill about politics, I got Red Pill about this, but it's not as, I guess, appropriating from what had come before it as it is right now. So, but let's go back. By the way, the purple thing,

you know, first thing I thought of when he said, purple pill is being at the mushroom mountain a couple times, once or twice, but nothing comes close to the yellow in purple pills, right? You know who said that? Is this a D12? Is this M&M? That's right, when all of them are.

That's where you stop. I went to straight to yellow in purple pills. this Eminem. That's right, when all that was. That's where you stop. I went to straight to the yellow purple pills. That just busted it. 2001 Eminem. Anyways, but going back to it. So look, the one part I like how you explained, the fact that women go through different phases.

So do men. So for myself, I say, okay, I can see some of that stuff making sense to some people and I totally can see that, meaning how men change once they get married, how women change once they get married. And then, you know, some women are like, well, my man is no longer interested in me,

like he used to be and some men are like, well, you know, my girl's no longer, my woman's no longer interested in me, like she used to be. And some men are like, well, you know, my girls no longer, my woman's no longer interested in me. Like, she used to be, right? So if you don't mind going through the phases, we go through. So when I'm 18 years old, I'm in the army, you know, what do you have on, you know,

there's only one thing on your mind, right? And that's a reading a lot of business books. I mean, obviously, the only thing on my mind is, I wanna read business books, Math analysis, trigonometry. That was a main outcome of my life at that time. I'm lifting weights, the only thing on my mind is, I want to read business books, Math Analysis, Trigon Amazio. That was the main outcome of my life at that time. I'm lifting weights, I'm fired up, I got a lot of testosterone,

I'm running a bunch of miles every day, and somehow somewhere you gotta release it. So, 18 to whatever age, then you get to a point, you look at the market and you say, okay, that girl chose that guy over me, what the hell are we talking about here? That guy is a schmuck, but he's making money and he's gonna get over me.

This doesn't make any sense. And I don't even like his attitude. He's like, so you know, let me go try to see compete in a different way. Then you go maybe a little bit more into career, you get focus and if you do it early on, you have the ability to win. But what phases do men go through? And if you can kind of go all the way through to maybe

50? And what phases do women go through? I'd be really curious. Okay. It's actually easier for me to start with women because the second book is exactly about that. I pegged it as at a timeline. Now there is a very famous graph that I published way back in like 2013 or 2014.

It's two bell curves. It's when women are at their peak of their sexual market value versus when men are at the peak of their sexual market value. And in many different ways, men and women do not mature at the same rate, okay? Even when it comes to like puberty, when it comes to, you know, like girls mature a lot faster than boys do and they get to a point where they're, they're, it's out with you, with your top. Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about right there. Yeah, that's the one.

Yeah, keep going, we're listening. So, and I, you know, I tell you, it's funny, is when I was writing the essay where I put that out there, I was like, this is like, kind of instinctive to me, and then a lot of people ran me up the flag pole for putting this one out there, and then over the course of the last, say, like, almost 10 years now, there have been so many data sets

and so many, so much, almost 10 years now, there have been so many data sets and so much research that backs this up, and I almost get chills thinking how accurate it was when I was writing it. But where I peg women as far as their peak sexual market value is right around 22 or 23 years old. That's when men find women the most attractive across the board. 23, 24.

23, 24 right around there. So 15 all the way up to 95, that's the age at which men find women the most attractive. For women finding men attractive, it staggers. So statistically speaking, women find men 3 to 7 years older than they are as more attractive. Now, there's a difference between a rousal and attraction and a lot of people sort of mistaking this. If you ask a woman, what do you find attractive in a man? She's gonna tell you all these long-term security traits

that a guy has to have. You say, what do you find a roul? What gets you hot about a guy? Let's see, he's got to have V-taper. He's got to have 26-inch guns. He's got to have six-pack abs. He's got to have chisel jawline, that's a difference. So when men get to be about 36 years old

is when I peg them at being their sexual market value peak because that is assuming the man makes the most of his potential, you know, developing himself becoming something lives up to his burden of performance, let's just say, at 36 to 37 burden of performance, let's just say, at 36 to 37 somewhere in there, that's when he starts hitting his stride. That's the point at which he has the potential

to have the most of what makes him the most attractive to women overall. So if you stay on your game, you're working out, and you're on top of your business, and you have ambition, you have confidence, a lot of that takes a lot longer for men to develop than it does for women to get to their point of sexual marketability.

And so one of the things we always talk about in sort of the atmosphere of the Red Pill communities is that men must become and women just are. So when women get to the point where it's like they're at 23, that's when men want them the most. So that's number one number one must become a couple of women just are huh so because so does that mean just to stay on that and i want you to continue so does that mean uh...

uh... it for a man to increase the market value wait till a thirty six thirty six thirty seven i don't think that's what you're saying no no no but i'm saying that that's going to be the point at which you will have the potential to have the most of what will make you the most attractive. And that's based on what? That's based on what? Well, based on physicality, also the fact that women want a man who's older,

I think on an instinctive level, women want a guy who has more maturity, has more of a capability or a proven capability to be the winner that they want to get with. Well, those guys don't tend to be part of their own peer group. They tend to be the guys who are more mature because they have had longer to become partner at the law firm or become a surgeon or whatever it is that they find as sort of status wise as high value, but also to stand up at their game, build themselves up and have a better

judge a character. There's a lot of things. If you look at the prerequisites that women have on the most common dating sites, it is this laundry list of, he's gotta be funny, he's gotta be hot, he's gotta live his mom, he's gotta like puppies, he's gotta want kids, he's gotta have ambition, he's gotta be confident

in just on and on and on and on. For men, it's just gotta be hot, she's gotta be available. That's pretty much it. And so when you go and you look at the, it's almost like filling out a job application when you're going on, say like, you know, Tinder, when I attend her so much, but like, you know, on online dating, which is the number one way that men and women find each other today and start, you know, start dating.

So when you have that as sort of the prerequisite, well, women understand that it takes longer for men to develop into what's going to make them the most attractive and to mature into that. And as a result, that has to coincide with what they're going through. So when a woman is between, say, 18 and 28 years old, that's her peak window to find the guy that has the most of what she's going to need in the future.

So if you look at it this way, a woman between 18 and 28 years old, she's got about 10 year window there to secure what she's going to need as long-term security for the rest of her life. So that's a lot of pressure. Especially today. That's a lot of stress on women right now to find that guy. So would it not stand to reason that they're going to look for a guy who is already a winner, a turnkey relationship, where she can go and say, oh, you make a lot of money, you've done a lot with yourself. Yeah, I'm ready to, you know, ride or die with you. Or she's going to have to look for a guy who has the potential to become that guy when he's 36, 37 years old at his peak. So women will go through the phase of what I call it. I call it the party years. I was just

saying that it was, it's the point at which women are sort of like, they have the most sexual selectivity during those years. Other people will call it the ho phase, not my words, they're words. And then they'll get to a point where it's 29 to about 31 years old, which is what I call the epiphany phase. And that's when women go. I'm done with the jerks.

I don't want to have that anymore. I want to do things right. I want to get right with God. I don't wanna have that anymore. I wanna do things right, I wanna get right with God, I wanna have a right relationship, and unfortunately in our Western society right now, that's often too late for women. At 30, 31, and 8, 2, 3. Well, not saying necessarily it's the wall,

like they don't look good anymore, they do. The wall, when we talk about the wall, the wall doesn't begin here, it begins up here. It's acknowledging that they are not as sexually competitive in the sexual marketplace at 33 as they were when they were 23. You think that applies to today? Would all the, would all the,

would he call it, you know? Classic surgery, I would all be, oh yeah, there's ways to forestall that for sure. Right, yeah. But you're saying at 33, that's 2931 that's the age. Well, the, the, right? Yeah, but you're saying at 33 that's 30 2931 that's the age. Well, the the for most women they're 33 year old self could not compete on the same level in the sexual marketplace as her 23 year old self.

Well, also kids play a major factor in this. Absolutely. Yeah, decisions not even so much what it does on your body. Like Not even so much what it does on your body. Like if I, like I'm single, 41 now, 42, 43. And at least according to certain online dating real vibes for three years and a really old. I'm 40 again guys, congratulations. By the way, yeah, we didn't do even do a happy birthday here. We took the dinner, we had to add them just had a birthday a couple days ago turn 40 years old for the first time and the last you know a couple years And so

Do you lie on your on your dating profiles by one year? The by one year. Rollo, this is about asking you a question, bro. But you know, if you want to keep going, I'm actually curious because you said you're now at 29 to 31 years old, you went to 36, well, male peak market value is 36 to 37 years old, female market value based on your rationale is 20 to 23 to 24. Continue. What happens after that?

Well, not necessarily my rationale. This is backed up by research and data. If there's a great book called Data Clism and it was written by the guy who was a founder, I believe, of OKCupid. And today in the internet age, we now have data that we never had in the history of humanity right now, especially. I don't know if you guys, I brought this up when I was on you are here with Elijah Schaefer.

If you go and you look at the PornHub blog site, not the PornHub site, but they just produced the stats for 2021 of basically what were the search terms, what were the most misspelled search terms? And by state, like who looks for what? And we have such accurate data. That tells you that peak market value is 23. We never had that. Really? We have never had that.

I can actually see that. I can actually see data up so that's more of some of the biggest findings. Well, anyways, and I don't mean so much on PornHub thing, but like in a data chalism, that's where I get that, that's where I might, the basis of the idea that men find that age of woman the most attractive, because it's from their data sets.

For women, if the woman is like say 25, she's looking for a guy that guys more attractive is about 27, maybe 28. And then it staggers up at the older that woman gets, the older the men get. So it's sort of this, you know, staggering. For men, it's only 22, 23, 20, across the board from all the way from like 15 year old guys

in high school, all the way up to 95 year old guys in, you know, assisted living. So that's everything I'm getting out here is not opinion pieces. All of this is backed up by hard, hard data that anybody can find by the way. We have Google right now. I quote data sets from evolutionary psychologists, anthropologists, neuro, you know, psychologists, sociologists, there's all kinds of data sets that we've never had before. So it's not just me sort of pulling this out of my ass. It is based on research that has been going on really,

in some cases, since like the 70s, but all the way up to where we are right now. So when we get to sort of what I call the epiphany phase, 29 to 31 years old, that's when women decide that that's, you know, I'm gonna have to check out of the sexual marketplace. I gotta find a guy to go forward from here. And that's when women will express

the most frustration with men. They will say, where are the nice guys? Where are the guys that, that, how come these guys don't have their shit together? How come they, they, they haven't gone to college? How come I can't find the guy that I want to go forward into life with right now? And that's a whole, another topic to, to get into and talk about the crisis of masculinity. But when they get to that point at point at 29 to 30, you know, three years old somewhere around there, that is when the, that's when that sort of

angst comes in. If you look at the, another data set, if you look at the average age of first marriage, it occurs right around 29.8, I think, or almost about 30 for men and about 28 to 29 years old for women today. And that is in the United States. It's even older in the UK. So there's only one year difference. Yeah, that is exactly where I pegged it on that chart. Exactly. Now, you said you're Gen X, so your giver take 50? I'm 53.

53, looking good, bro. And how much of an age difference between you and your wife? Let's just say there's a three year difference. So let's just say there's a three year difference.. So let's just say there's a three-year difference. Yeah. So when she hears you use this terminology, 23, 25, and she like, rollo, stepping in my office, mother, sucker, we have a problem here. How do you dig grapple with that being married to the kids? I have kids. I have a daughter. Okay, so how do you grapple with that, saying what

you say versus living what you live? Well, I have an obligation to objective truth, and I of course picked that up from Dr. God, so I thank you. But it is incumbent upon me to tell things like it is. And sometimes that can come off as sounding like it's angry or it's cynical or it's pessimistic. So, they may call it rational. Some would call it rational. Really, that's sort of a conflict I have written about quite a bit about the war between rationality and reason versus emotionalism right now. My wife is onboard let's just say with about 98% of what I've ever written and it just depends on mood for the last two percent. Exactly what's that two percent? Exactly and that's the first thing anybody says. Well I think it's more about

like what is what is most expedient when it comes to women's mating strategy versus men's mating strategy. Which one should be the predominant one that decides how we're going to live in a post-21 century world right now? Which mating strategy defines our social policy? Which mating strategy, whether it's men or it's women, we used to call it patriarchy, right? Now patriarchy, by the way, died right around 1965. It died the year after hormonal birth control

was introduced very, very slowly, but it died right at that point. And when I talk about, when I get into like emotionalism versus rationalism, I get this question all the time, it's like, well, what is your wife disagree with you about? Like, that's the one little, like, yeah, but there's 98% that she does agree with. So, um, usually it's just, it's more, more or less, it's logistics, not, not necessarily like a particular point in the book, per se. Um, but do you say things to your wife like,

you better stay hot for me, baby, you're getting a little bit older. Not in those, not in those words, but in, in your, in your, in your own windows. My wife looks very, my wife, they would both of us have a commitment to staying in shape, right? Okay. And, you know, it's, in you windows, yeah, there's, there's a certain game that goes along with that. It's not like, it's not like it's something that I, it's like conscious at this point.

I say this on my own podcast. It's like, I am the game right now, because I've been doing this so long, I've been studying this for so long, that it becomes the second nature. It's internalized. So, am I gonna, it's not an ultimatum if that's what you're asking. It's not like, you better do this,

because, or it's not like she goes through my book and she goes, well, it looks like you're using this point right here on me. Like, it doesn't work like it's playing the game. Play with her and play with her. So you're the market of dating and alpha male, there's a bunch of them right now, on YouTube that are doing this.

And there's some younger guys that are doing it. There's some married guys that are doing it. There's some girls that are doing it. Women are doing it. A bunch of folks are testing this out because I think there's a need for it. People want to know how to increase the market value, right? So, now, if somebody listens to this, they're like,

shit, what if I pass that age? I'm kind of discouraged. What do I do, right? I'm not at that prime age or I'm not at this age. So, what is the non-natural? Because I know when you use a word natural, what can the non-natural do to increase their market value both men and women As far as sexual market values

Yeah, like like like you're saying you're available. You're single, okay And you're in a marketplace right now, and you're like listen Maybe you're at not not at the best place career-wise You kind of trying to get it together Maybe you're trying to make a comeback and maybe you're somebody your woman who's you know 34 career wise, you're kind of trying to get it together, maybe you're trying to make a comeback. And maybe you're somebody, you're a woman who's 34 years old and you're single, and your last relationship didn't work out, maybe you're a single mother right now,

and you left your husband or vice versa, right? You're by yourself. What can that person do to increase their market value to be attractive to the opposite sex? Okay, very easy for men. There's three core aspects and really four, if you think about it, there's make muscles, make money and learn game.

And in terms of game, I mean like social skills that a lot of guys by the way are very lacking these days. And then as the fourth part of that is a hold frame. So once you have built that world with make money, make muscles, learn game, then you have frame as a part of that is hold frame. So once you have built that world with make money, make muscles, learn game, then you have frame as a part of that. And again, this is a psychological sociological term. Like, what's the frame right now? And it doesn't necessarily have to do with just,

interpersonal relationships. It can be your boss. It can be your mom or your dad and your family. Like, frame is like whoever's framed psychological frame you're entering into or they're entering into yours. So when we're looking at guys sort of coming back from being like, okay, I'm deficient in these areas. Most men when they find what works for them,

they gross out in one of those areas. So I don't make a lot of money, I'm kind of poor, but man, I can go bench 400 pounds. Right, I'm in the poor, but man, I can go bench 400 pounds, right? I'm in the 300 club, right? I can, whatever it is, I can maximize my looks and everything at the cost of my deficiency and say money or even in game. We see a lot of this in the Black Pill communities right now

where they think it's nothing but looks. It's to the point where they're doing jaws or size so they can get a better jawline or doing cosmetic surgery as a result of this really kind of obsessive misunderstanding that it's only about looks. So you would think that these guys would be like Jim Bros or they would be like personal trainers or something. But that's one area that is, if you're deficient

in one of those areas, you tend to gross out another. So, what I would suggest is look at which areas you tend to be really strong at and then look at where you tend to be weak at. Most guys, if they're weak in money, they tend to gross out on the looks. If they're fat and they don't look very good and they're not naturally good looking, they tend to gross out on money and say, well, it's all about the money and all I have to do is just pay for everything and girls will want to come to me. And then it's like there's the game aspect of it. Well, I don't have either of those, but I'm very charming and so therefore I can, you know, I know people's psychology and you tend to gross out in that area as well.

My suggestion to guys is if you want to have a, if you really want to build yourself up, look where you're weak in those three core three things, because the fourth is to have frame as a result of all of those three things. So if you are not in good shape, which what is it? 75% of the United States population is like overweight and like 40% is like morbidly obese. That's usually the best place to start. Get your fat ass in the gym. That will help you out with your, just not necessarily the just a look side of things,

but it will help you feel better because you're releasing stress and there's a chemical aspect that goes along with that. If you're deficient in money, people will say, well, how do I get on my game with money? Crypto, how do I do? How do I become an entrepreneur? How do I learn a trade?

How do I, I'm better at these things, find out what your core strengths are. Primarily, when I'm telling guys, like they ask me this question first and foremost, I say, what is sedating you? Is it pornography? Is it booze? Is it prescription drugs? Is it your addiction to world of warcraft,

whatever it is, whatever that is sort of your escape? Video games. It's a life that is better to live in your escape than it is in your shitty real life. I think that's the first and foremost is find out what's sedating you because you can't address any of those core three until you decide, until you figure out what's keeping you in bed all day long and you're not, you don't want to lose. Do you think this metaverse concept is going to help?

It's going to hurt that. It's going to hurt. It's fine. We've just talking about this. I think it's going to hurt because it's going gonna be more like, I think a more immersive experience. Right, if you're not happy with your life, just go check into the metaverse, good luck out there.

Well, I remember when World of Warcraft and those online role playing games came out and everybody was neglecting their children because they were too busy trying to level up. If that's human nature, imagine what it's gonna be like when we get into the metaverse. And we're already talking about like,

women are filing suit against meta for being sexually assaulted in the metaverse right now. And you're already seeing real world problems being transferred over into the metaverse. We're already a natural shift over. But yeah, I think that will be an escape, that will be a sedation to keep you locked in place, to keep you a neutral.

For women, my biggest concern with women, and it's funny you brought up, what if you're a divorce mom of five or whatever, and you wanna get back into the game. Well, first and foremost, you have to remember what it is that men are looking for and at what particular age. I'm 53 years old.

If I were to find myself single, I'm not going to be looking for a woman who is say like 25 years old because I've already gone through that phase of life. I'm mature enough and I can think critically enough to go, you know what, it might be fun to have a fling with that person, but you're not gonna build a life with that person going

before. A lot of people in Palm Beach would disagree with you. Yeah, well, yeah, I know. Yeah, and that's how you get to show your exides. So, for the 18 people in Palm Beach, I got offended it's going to be all right. Go ahead, consult. So, as far as women are concerned,

I think women need to look, see the force for the trees right now. I don't think a lot of women look ahead long term. I work with these guys, Fresh and Fit, which are in Miami here, and you're probably familiar with them. They have one of the number one podcasts in, certainly in Southern Florida, if not, you know, dating podcasts over the world. They bring in women regularly, and they'll say, well, they're all, you know, ratchet hose from the clubs or whatever like that.

No disagreement. Yeah, but, but, and so you can, but when you listen to these girls, they all have the same stories. I'm, I'm looking for a guy who is, you know, the guy is going to take me on yacht parties. I'm looking for this. I'm looking for a guy who's got money. I'm looking for, it seems like they're looking at, you know, sort of towards the future, but what they're not understanding is that at the, at their point of life, say, like, as I said, 18 to 28 years old, they don't realize that their sexual selectivity, like the party's gonna be over at some point

because they're gonna be replaced by the next cycle of 18 to 28 year olds that come in. So, the joke is this is, they called the store forever 21, not forever 41, because women are always looking back at those peak years. Because that's when they had the top of their agency. They were at the top of their power curve that I was saying before. And they constantly look back to that.

And as women go forward, I think there's almost a blue pill for women as well, which is we sell women on this idea of what I call femme powerment. And we've been doing this really since 1970, since the sexual revolution. We want to put women into the workplace. We want to have a special dispensation for them in college is we want to get them into STEM fields. We want to give them access to, you know, pelt grants and all kinds of ways to sort of,

you know, build them up, put them into the workforce, put them into politics, put them into the economy, as much as possible. And the problem is that what happens is women end up becoming the men they want to marry. They end up becoming the quote unquote alpha female with the boss babe or whatever it is now. And they can't understand why they can't find a guy

who is their quote unquote equal, who doesn't want to have anything to do with them. The catastrophic way. Because anybody who is better than they are status wise is not looking for a quote unquote alpha female. They're looking for the girl who's 23 years old who's feminine and wants to go forward and have kids and has a you know say well she's submissive whatever. I counsel women today who tell me I can't find a guy. I can't

find a guy who is my equal but he's got a you know they're not going to college men are enrolling at like 40% versus 60% for women right now. I'm actually probably seeing those stats. And so there's this socioeconomic disparity between men and women right now that's causing this divide, but it's also this expectation. And we expect women to sort of dumb themselves down so that they can get with a guy who, you know, up to that point, they've been raised on these ideals that they should never settle,

that they should never settle for anything less than the best. And, you know, statistically speaking, the best is making 58% more than that woman does to forestall divorce. When a woman gets a rise in pay, or she gets a, you know gets a promotion at work, that is what precipitates a divorce in couples where they were making the same or she was making less and now she's making more. Those are simple biological evolutionary realities.

You know what I would want to know? You know, here's what I would want to know because he's right. Not what he just said, he's right. He's right with the data set. Everything's not there with data, right? I would love to tell our C. Fickin searches while we're talking. They would leave the camera on us. I'm seeing if Tyler can find this. I would want to know, if you have the data, tell us we'd pull it up to show it.

I would want to know, what is the average rate of a woman that divorces a man, her income to her, versus man to a woman? I don't know if that makes sense or not. So woman falls a divorce to the man, man falls a divorce to the woman. What's the income? Okay, I'd be just curious, you know,

because he's different. Yeah, it would be income difference. I have a friend of mine that he's been married to his wife, Roller for 15 years. Okay. She's a lawyer. She makes a couple hundred grand a year. He's a stay home dad and she's crazy about him.

She would never leave him. And he has no desire to go be a career guy. He pick drops off the kids in the morning, makes them breakfast, packs their lunch. And he's not a, he's not a softie. Like if you looked at him, you wouldn't be like, oh, this guy's a little pansy. He's he's he's not a he's not a softie like if you looked at him You wouldn't be like oh this guy's a little pansy is a show. He's he's not and then they're happily married He's not career driven. He wants to be the soccer dad is who he is

He's exactly what a soccer mom is except he's a soccer dad She's not a cook he is and they're happily married and that's working off of them, right? But I also have friends who will call me and they'll say, I said, what's going on? I see some like you're upset, what's pissing you off? Some's bothering you. Well, yeah, listen, man, I mean, I don't know. Like, finally, let's just have a conversation.

They'll open up and they'll say, you know, would a bother if your wife made more money than you? He asked me this question, open up the question. You know, we're like three, four guys, we're talking, shooting the shit. Would a bother if your wife made more money than you? And I said, what do you guys say? That's what happened with me and my wife just got a raise right, four guys we're talking, shooting the shit. Would a bother if your wife made more money then? I said, why do you ask? That's what happened with me and why

I've just got to raise right now. And we got some fights at the house. I said, why does that bother you? Well, I feel like I have to be the one making more money. So psychologically, he couldn't accept it. So does that concept very based on men and women? Because sometimes I see women who are stronger

personalities, marry a guy who is not necessarily an alpha. He's a little bit more of a chill. It's okay, nothing pisses him off. And that works out because I think the one thing about these philosophies is, for my experience, I don't think there's anything that's an absolute truth, right? I think there's generalities and there's majority. And then you got the exception, you know, to the rule.

What would you say to that? OK, well, first and foremost, the idea that men and women are equal is a misnomer. Because I think what we do is when we talk, like, people throw me under the bus for this one. But I don't believe in equality. And I don't mean that in the terms of like, oh, we shouldn't all, like, strive to be equal. I just think that our understanding of what is equal is sort of out. It's subjective and it's obscure and it's relative to whatever. The challenges are that men and women face in life.

So if I wanted to get pregnant, I'm a man. I can't do that because I'm a man. So that seems very unfair and unequal between the two of us. It just depends on- Well, Apple thinks you can, though. Yeah, apparently so. Apple thinks you the two of us. It just depends on you. Well Apple thinks you can though. Yeah, apparently so. Apple thinks you can. Can you pull up the new emoji by Apple?

Apple thinks you can't. I don't know how. Exactly. I haven't figured out yet, but it's a painful experience. But, biologically speaking, reality objectively speaking, there are always going to be differences between men and women. And how we define what's equality and what's justice and what's fair and what's not fair is really just dependent on what the challenge is. So if I'm flying out here on the plane and some lady says, can you please put my bag

in the overhead because you're taller than I am and you're stronger than I am and you can put it up in the overhead. Well, that seems very, not a go. We're all equal. Go ahead. You do it, right? I'm not going to defend you. We're all equal today, right?

No, I'm gonna go, of course, pick it up and put it in there for her, but that's what I'm talking about. What's the challenge? And the challenge in this case, it's just simply taking your luggage and putting it in the overhead bin, right? So when we talk about equality,

we need to say what's the challenge? Under what parameters? What's the context that we're talking about here? So when you're talking about your friends who are, the man is sort of like the Mr. Mom, right? He's the stay at home, he wants to be the soccer dad or whatever else. Odds are that, what does she do for a living?

A lawyer. A lawyer, okay, and what is he, what did he do before he became this, or how do they meet? I don't think he's ever had a full time. Is he a good looking dude? There's probably something that offsets, but there's probably something that offsets. What do you probably something that offsets you mean he was he was very handsome

right now he's got a massive belly and just uh... he's got the dad bought and he's just some women find that about time yeah but that's from saint you but here's a thing though what are you gonna change about that's working they're good with it and they've been together fifteen years are they doing something wrong so you know that's not that's the exception that's what i'm saying That is the exception to the right.

I agree with that. So, all I'm trying to say is the one part that Adam, I will see is like, you know, in the company, we have a lot of couples in the sales company. So, I'll see sometimes the wife is a bigger alpha than the husband is, and he's okay with that. Like, he doesn't have the insecurity of saying, I wanna be the alpha, the fact that he doesn't have that

insecurity makes him an alpha. I don't know if that makes sense. The fact that he's not trying to impose is like, dude, I'm so happy. And they're killing it, okay? And he got some guys that are the alpha and the wife is supporting them, some that run together.

But that's very much an exception for you. Because especially in blue collar couples, I mean, you're talking about somebody who makes a lot of money in a completely different socioeconomic class. You're looking at a larger whole women, a file for divorce, 70% of the time, and that's the lowest estimate I have, actually I have higher estimates as well. And so what precipitates that is usually that woman has gone, their blue collar workers, the woman has gone up in status

as a result of a promotion or whatever. And now the guy is making less money, or in the case of your friend here, he was never making that much money in the first place. Now, your lawyer friend goes to the practice and she's having to defer to men who are her authorities, who are her superiors, who are guys who are very powerful, high status guys,

that she has to interact with every day. Is she gonna come home from that situation and go back to her soccer, dad, husband, and say, yeah, I'm gonna submit to my husband, are we gonna suddenly come back into that traditional conventional gender role after working 40 hours a week with guys who are much higher status than the guy that she

has to come home to every day who's changing diapers and cooking mac and cheese. So, that is the power dynamic that goes along in there because women are looking for a man that they can look up to. Women cannot look up to a man who is her equal. She's looking for a guy who makes more money than she does. She's looking for a guy who is more on top of his game as a quote unquote dominant alpha male. She's looking for the guy who is in status wise above herself. If there is some sort of anomaly that's going on there where she's like, oh, I'm good with it because he's a good-looking guy, I would have to say, well, what's her situation as well? So it's not just about like, okay, what's he a good-looking dude? As you said, he was. What is her situation? Again, money, muscles, game, and frame.

So, where does he fit in on those core four right there? Is he probably say she's more attractive than him? You would say so? You would say so. Okay, so in that case. And he's not a porn star. So he's not a packet. I know what you mean.

You know what I'm saying. No, no, yeah. Well, I mean, you have to take that into consideration. You have to say, okay, well, she wants to get with this guy. I mean, I know dozens and dozens of women who are, actually at least two of them are my clients right now, who complain that they can't find the guy who is that higher status guy.

And so they have to sort of dumb themselves down. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying they feel like they have to dumb themselves down just so they can get with the guy because more men are simply not average women don't want to get with average men. They want the guy who they can look up to and admire. From an average American perspective, like blue collar workers, when that woman is elevated

to a different position, that's what precipitates divorce. So you're familiar with glory all right? You know, glory all right. It's okay. So sometimes we are sold a philosophy by somebody who has had dramatic life experiences that we haven't had, but they impose their philosophies on to you and you kind of sit there and say,

I'm gonna buy that, but you shouldn't buy that because it may not work for your life. But because the other person's such a better salesperson, it's so much emotion into it, you buy into it, right? You gotta be very careful with which philosophies are people you buy. So I remember when I interviewed her, Gloria Aldred, we're in her office, I walk in,

and she's a perfect, like she's the, for people that don't who Gloria Aldred is, how do you define who she is? She's a Michael Jordan of sexual harassment lawsuits right. Can we say that? Yeah. And attractive older woman accomplished. By the way, I had the most incredible time sitting down with her when the interview was done because things got heated when the interview was done, I said, can I hug you? She says, you know what, Patrick, all you have to do is ask. That's the cap. I'm not going to go, okay. So she gave me the biggest hug.

We laughed it out. But I pushed her, she pushed me. I said, look, Lori, you talk about feminism and women's rights and all this stuff. How many people you got working here? A lot. Why is it that the front disc clerk was a woman? But all your partners, pictures on the wall, they're all men.

Well, how about you, Patrick? Are you not a bigot? It was like such an interesting dynamic. But then I said, I want find that about this later, lady. When I looked at her documentary, looked at study stuff on her, when she was in Cancun, do you know the story about what happened to her in Cancun in Mexico?

So when she was younger in her early mid-20s, very attractive girl, she goes to a doctor, she meets a doctor, a doctor says, let's go back to my practice, I wanna show you my office, in the office she, she raves her, okay? And she keeps it to herself for a while, but she creates this level of anger towards a man, right? So later on, she gets married to this man,

then they get a divorce. I think after she gets a divorce, he ends up committing suicide. The guy kills himself, her first husband. And his second husband, she gets married. They get a divorce. She keeps the last name, but suits the hell out of him. And you saw what happened to her daughter.

Her daughter is now kind of similar doing what she's doing. I don't know if you've fallen on her footsteps. Similar personality, strong personality. And she's out there saying independent woman, independent woman, independent woman, independent woman. And women are like, she's right, she's right, she's right. And it may work for some, but some actually do want to have a family, do want to have, you know, do want to have a husband, do want to stay, you know, build something together with them. How do you differentiate between, you know, somebody who is selling

a bag of goods that may be worked for her because she had a painful experience? How do you process that? How do you get somebody who was listening to the saying, well, she's right. Versus saying, I don't know if that philosophy is going to work for me long. It's very difficult to make a rational argument with people who are like seated and steeped in emotionalism and anger is definitely an emotion and resentment and you know regret revulsion there's all kinds of different emotions that go along with that so I can be the most rational guy in the world and say here's the statistics here's the dynamics here's just the dots that I'm connecting yeah I'm not going to change that person's mind if if she's having an emotional argument and I'm having a rational argument, because we're talking past each other.

My, most people, when they have a conflict of interest or they have like, oh, you believe in a philosophy? And I'm like, no, I don't believe in a philosophy. I believe in empirical data. Here it is. The only way they can win that rational argument is by converting it into an emotional argument. And that's in a nutshell,

kind of what happens when you're trying to relate red pill awareness when you're trying to relate the kind of material that I do to people who are very ego-invested into their personalities are dependent on that belief set. So unless they get to a point of crisis, unless they get to a point of really kind of desperation, or they have, you know, through some miracle they have some sort of insight about things. You're really probably not going to change their minds about it. The best you can do is to present, you know, pick your battles, ask, lead the witness, right?

Ask pertinent questions at the time when those, when those topics arise. But as far as when we're talking about this cultural narrative of the strong, independent woman right now, it's practically a brand. We've been talking about the strong, independent woman since 1970, since glorious Steinem. Okay. And.

Why is that a broken philosophy? Why is that a broken philosophy? It's a broken philosophy for several reasons. For some people, some people swear by it. Independent of what? What are women independent of? Men. They're independent of men's provisioning.

So when we go back, I'm gonna write, told you how everything goes back to the micro, and the micro level is this. For women, women's mating strategy is hypergamy, okay? And I mean that on two fronts, it's dual. It's not just one, like a lot of people mistake hypergamy is, oh, well, women marry up. It's not just about that. Women also are looking for short-term sexual genetic benefits.

They want the hot guy in the foam cannon party and cancun on spring break. They want the hot fireman that arouses them and gets their blood boiling. And then they want the guy who's also, like I said, attraction who is the guy who's a good long-term security prospect, so it's CADs versus DADs. That's the, that's kind of like the dynamic

that women have to choose and have to find the best fit between those two things. In today's society, really since 1970, we have developed a social order that has sold women. You don't need to worry about long-term security. We've got no fault of worse. We've got child support laws. We've got the Duluth model of feminism. We've got more women in the workplace. Just go on down the line of all the benefits that women have accrued since the time of the sexual revolution. All of those point to one thing,

which is long-term security for women. So when we're talking about abortion on demand, that's a fail-safe for bad reproductive choices. That is the function of abortion. Is to say, you know what? Well, I don't want to be a good prospect for the future, but this guy is. And so therefore, we have that option, just having that option is exactly why women will fight tooth and nail to keep abortion legal. That's number one. You think that's the reason?

Absolutely. That's the function of it. So women will say, well, it's because of bad to say, what, really, what, what else is it? I mean, is it, is it a, is it bad philosophy? Is it bad religion? Is it bad, what is the process? So what is the purpose? What is the purpose?

What is the latent purpose? So what you're saying is, what you're saying is saying is, if a girl hooks up with an NFL player, she'll give the baby, but if she hooks up with a neighbor because one night she was alone and he came, he was a school teacher, regular guy, she may abort that baby, but keep the NFL. That's what you're saying. And it's exactly why you have no seat at the table

when we start talking about abortion laws. You don't have a uterus, and therefore you don't have a say. You know what NFL trained on that, by the way, just a side note, NFL trained that every time you have sex would it kind of flush the con. It was NBA. NBA, that's what I did. I mean, now it's everybody.

Have you seen what happened recently in the news and then to have a Drake, the hot sauce in the con. You know where he got that from was Tom Likus from back in the ninth, because I did a segment on that. Everyone's like, Tom Likus, Tom Likus. What was that? Tom Likus, yes.

My question is like, Drake, why are you putting Chalula sauce in a fricking condom? Just flush it down the toilet. I don't know if it was an on-fire metal show. It was, I believe it was 2001, the NBA released a press release to all their players who are on road trips because they had such a high incidence of women that they were sleeping with while they were on road games.

Essentially, they would use a condom and the women would, let's say, inseminate themselves with the leftovers in the condom so that they could have a kid with an NBA player. So that is a goal of many of the... It was so common that they had to make a press release for that and of course Tom like is being the extreme guy. You know, it's what you should put Tabasco sauce in there so like what she does that show. But but continue, you were saying continue, you were, you were going to point there. What's feminism movement that wives not unfit

a strategy, or so? So that's just one factor that goes along. And so what we have done is we've established a social order where men are unnecessary. And women today will say this, we don't need men. We're starting to. I don't need no man. I don't need no man. But I want a man. Okay. what man do you want to get with? What man is that?

It's usually the guy who's the quote unquote, stereotypical alpha, Chad guy, hot guy in the foam cannon party. She wants the alpha seed side of hypergamy, not the beta meat, need side, because at least there's this idea that that side of security, that side of her mating strategy is going to be settled.

And when they get to the point where they're 33, 34, 35 years old and they're asking me, Rola, we're all the good guys. How come I can't find a guy who makes more money than me or is ready to go forward? They're also irresponsible. They're all threatened by powerful, strong, powerful women. And the only answer I have for them is you have created yourself into the man that you wanted to marry. And so when women hit me up and they asked me about this and they said, okay, well, what can

I do? What can I do to be, to find a long-term guy? And they're 34, 35 years old. They get very, very frustrated. They're like, I guess I'm going to die alone. I guess they've resigned themselves to being a spinster. Let's just say. An old spinster, exactly. And so what I say is, what are the men that you're looking for?

What are they looking for in a woman? Well, they're looking for femininity. They're looking for a woman who's hot. They're looking for sexual availability. They're looking for a woman who can nurture, who might be a good mother in the future. I mean, there's all of these sort of conventional feminine qualities that they don't embody anymore.

And so when they say, well, what do I gotta do? I gotta play dumb. I gotta play the Ditsy Blonde. I've been told my whole life that I needed to be in charge and powerful at everything else. And as Patrick was saying just a minute ago, as women want to be, or they believe that they need to be in those positions of power because they can't depend

on a man. Men are irresponsible. Men are untrustworthy. Men like Gloria all read, for example. I don't need no man or they have a very misandrous attitude towards guys as a result of life experience or whatever, but it doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as that. It can be simply like watching Disney picks our movies that do nothing but say you can do anything. You can be an astronaut and have babies at the same time

and you can be in the military and fight wars and you can go and be a computer, whatever it is, the sky's the limit girl. And you have three, four generations of women who are raised on that, they believe that they have to be the one who provides that security for themselves. So as a result, you have careerist women who are getting more degrees than men. We constantly, we point at men when we talk about this, but let's look at the stats here.

There are more women who are enrolled in college. There are more women in doctor programs. There are more women who get masters degrees. I mean, just educationally speaking, we can parse that out. Women are making more money than men are these days, or increasingly more anyways. And then women spend more money that is part of the family unit. Right now, 90% of American homes, the woman is the one who makes all of the big economic decisions

for those homes. So it's not necessarily earning capacity or this wage gap kind of thing. It's who is making the spending? Who's doing the who holds the purse strings? And we can see that on the family level. And you can also see that on the societal level as well. So if you go look at the who's in charge of the IMF right now? Who's in charge of the the fed? Who's in charge of the with the EMF right now? Yeah, well, yeah, you look, I think it was on zero hedge

had to have a really great story about this is like, the world's economies are now controlled by women. Or those are the heads, the figure heads of those organizations. Now some may say, a feminist may say to you, Rolo, you're just insecure, you're afraid that we, we as women are starting to take your jobs away and we're making a market more competitive.

Why are you so insecure and afraid of us? What I would say is that's an emotional argument and I'm making a rational argument. It's the same thing, it's a conversation killer. Who hurt you? That kills the conversation right there. If I go and I make all of these very cogent, very rational valid arguments,

or I show you the statistics and say, these are just the stats, these are the stats, these are the dots that I'm connecting. And if your response is, who hurt you? Or you must be very bitter, what was her name? Or mommy didn't love you? That's an emotional response. So it's the same thing.

It's like, well, you're just an insecure man because you're bringing this up. No, I am giving you objective reality and you have no counterargument. These women that you're saying you're speaking to that approach you and have these conversations that are doing well in life successful, they're literally saying,

what do I have to do? Dumb it down, you've used that, you're playing stupid, you've used that terminology a few times. What does that actually look like? What is that they're not going to just start being a dance? No, no. What does that actually look like?

Dumb it down. We're going to find out is what we're going to do. Right now, if you look at marriage rates, they're at the lowest they have ever been since the in the United States anyways, then when they started recording this, it's like, I believe it's up to 6.1% per 1000 right now. I believe it's 6.1, but it's at the lowest rate.

It would have been 6.1% of what? 6.1 per 1000, I believe, the population. It is statistically speaking, 6.1% of what? 6.1 per 1,000 I believe, the population, it is, what does that mean? Statistically speaking, it's, the marriage rate in the United States is lower than the other. Yeah, but what's 6.1 per 1,000? I got it off of the staff. The women marriage per 1,000 unmarried women.

Mm-hmm. Here's the older term. So can you pull this up? Because I'm actually really curious on what that means. I do know fewer people are getting married. One of them. Absolutely. I mean, I got one chart here that says marriage more than a century of change.

If you go back to 50s, 90.2% of folks were getting married. Today it's 31.1%. Yes. Okay. The US marriage rate and number of women's marriages per 1,000 unmarried women, 15 years and older, is the lowest it's been in over a century at 31.1. That is roughly 31 marriages per 1,000 unmarried women. The marriage rate was a highest in 1920 at 92.3.

Since 1970, the marriage rate has declined almost 60%. Why is that happening? I would say it's because we have a different understanding of how men and women should interact with each other. We have taken away anything that men might provide to women because they're strong and independent women, right? That side of hypergamy where it's the three-piece parental investment, protection, and provisioning,

women can do that themselves. of hypergamy where it's the three P's, parental investment, protection, and provisioning. Women can do that themselves. And when we have a social order that makes men like Homer Simpson or a tournament to incompetent men, or we say we can just simply look at the stats, like 40% of guys are going to college right now. There's this new, I forget what the guy's name John Bird, I think, was he coined this phrase called the Golden Penis Syndrome, right? It's like these guys who are on top of their game, they're the, the, the alpha, the quote-unquote alpha males

that all women want to get with. Well, they don't need a man to provide security for themselves anymore and they don't trust a man to provide that security in the first place because their whole concept of masculinity is ridiculous or it's abusive. Those are really the two or incompetent. Those are the three choices that we have. You have two kids? I have one daughter. One daughter, 23. Okay, boom, this is perfect.

So you're advised to, yeah, exactly. I mean, this is the, no, no, this is just open. No, I've answered this before. You have a 23 year old daughter. She's at the quote unquote prime of her life right now. People I'm sure, you know, if no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no already a girly girl to begin with. Okay, she's a pageant girl. By the way, what's the black girl who just committed suicide? The pageant winner girl who, I forget, Chris, I forget an Chelsea, Chris, I think is what her name is. Sorry.

Which is very tragic. A tragic, this just happened. Yeah, which just happened. Yeah. But she's very feminine, she's naturally feminine. She's got a good head on her shoulder. She's doing postgraduate work. I won't tell you what college is, publicly,

but she's just finishing up her postgrad. She has a boyfriend who is very much alpha guy, a hockey player. Okay. And so, older, yes, yes. And she naturally, I think, gravitates towards guys who are, I would would say follow a certain template or a certain model And yes to to be honest with you. I've said the same thing

I said you know you are the prime of your life. You're at the peak where your your selection your your your What does she tell you? He's a agency is that well see that's the problem This is my daughter. This is role of Tomassi's daughter. Okay, so this is kind of like I'm biased here. She's going to be biased because she's getting this from me. But of course, like the problem that most women have with what I have to say when they have a problem with it is they tend to conflate sexual market value with their personal worth.

And that's, I think, remember you're asking me what advice would you give to women? I would say, look, there's a difference between your sexual market value and your personal value. So when women say, well, look, I've got a career, I have a my own business, I have all this stuff, I did everything that I was told to do by the books, I'm a powerful alpha female and,

and I still can't find a man, but this is where I'm at. How dare you tell me that I'm not hotter, I'm not attractive. And the problem that I have is that when you conflate sexual market value with your personal worth, your personal worth becomes what you think should be attractive or what men should find attractive in you. Men are not necessarily looking for a woman

who is a high-powered CEO or an attorney or whatever. They're looking for a girl who's like a good looking, feminine and sexually available, and they want to get with that. And anything beyond that point, once you've established that relationship, that's all gravy after that point. But they're not looking for a guy. They're not men. Generally, heterosexual men are not looking for another guy to marry.

They're looking for a woman to marry because that's the complementary nature between men and women. You're not even talking about homosexuality. You're talking about another woman who has... We can't talk about homosexuality. No, no, but in this context, you're talking about they don't want to marry a woman who is trying to be a man. Like that's what you're saying.

Exactly. They were looking for the Yen in the Yang, right? I mean, they're like, I've said this before, like people will throw rocks in me, so let me be clear right now, from my perspective, men and women are innate, natural, evolved compliments to one another. My strengths as a man compliment my wife's weaknesses as a woman and vice versa.

We are better together than we are apart. And the problem is, as you were saying before, is that we have this separation. Why aren't people getting married? Why aren't we forming these monogamous families? Why are you talking to Jordan Peterson a little while ago? Was a socially enforced monogamy? Why is that a thing in the past, all of a sudden? It's because men or women literally have no use for men, except for a few top tier guys that they're being, whether

by force or by choice, are being forced or choice to choose that one guy and share that one guy. So when we talk about high powered guys and having, you know, why would that guy who has at the peak of his sexual selectivity, maybe he's 37 years old, 36 or seven years old, he's on top of his game, he's hitting his stride, he's made his first millions, he's got his own business, he's got, he's the success story of manhood.

Why is he going to want to get with a woman who is like his equal, who, or that he would perceive us as equal, and not get with a lot of hot girls like Dan Bilzerian or something like that, or get with a lot of women at one time, you have that sexual selectivity, and then choose from among them who he wants to have children with and who wants to have family with. Well, you quoted Jordan Peterson, who was just here Friday sitting here, sitting here right there, and basically, I've seen him say,

saying women want to date horizontally or vertically, meaningly, like your same status or above where men is just like, anyway, I'll take a three to a 10, I don't give a shit. Women have attraction floors, men do not have attraction floors. And what I mean by that. Break that down, yeah, exactly.

Well, let's just, I mean, let's put it in nuts and bolts here, is if you've got a guy who is like a six, he'll date a woman who would love to get with a woman who's a nine, but no one's ugly after 2am, right? So we have a much broader scope when it comes to the women that we're willing to get with, either as mating opportunities or as, like, say, a relationship, are men today are simply not even allowed to have standards.

So when we talk about, like, well, where do you look for a woman? Most guys is like, well, you know, she was there and it just seemed like it was the right thing to do. For women, if a woman is a six, she's looking for a guy who's a six or above. And if that guy is a six, she's looking for that guy. The guy who's the seven might be somebody that she wants to get with. It's, it's not necessarily a sort of mating, but it is looking for the neck of the bigger and the better deal. And does that mean now?

Because people are going to give me this. Does that mean that, you know, well, if I get with the woman, she's always going to be looking for the next big, bigger, better thing. No, because hypergamy's not a straight jacket. And what I mean by that is as women mature, their ability to discern what's my sexual market build, sexual market value versus his, if that woman is say a seven and he's a six at 28 years old

when they get married, and now they get to be in their 30s, their mid 30s, and suddenly he's made partner in the law firm, he's made maximize his potential law firm, he's made maximize his potential. He goes up in section market value while she goes down a notch. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe that's what solidifies that relationship, and it makes it a healthy relationship. It's not necessarily like, oh, I'm doomed because women, why would I bother getting with

a woman who's just going to go look for the next best thing? It's not just about that. There's a lot of variables that go along. You know, we were doing a show that we're testing. And you know, yesterday we were talking to, you were not in the room. So, Zack's on this blind date with this girl. Okay, and we're testing this show.

And this therapist from behind in the back, what a walkie talkie is talking to to each person that they're dating, right? So, meaning, the girls got a headset that she's speaking into and you the guy on the blind dates got a headset that she's speaking the same person to walkie talkies one is yours, one is hers, right? And she says to him, ask her this question, are you okay with open relationships? If we date, are you okay with open relationships? And she says, yeah, I would be open to open relationships.

And then she said to follow up with the question of, why would you be open to open relationships? Right, obviously there's a place that she's going to. You know, there's a lot of talks about open relationships right now. Paul, Paulie, yeah. What is this story would open relationships? I think that that is sort of the adaptation that's going on right now because a lot of like as you were just looking at the traditional marriage like where it's one man, one woman,

they get together, they have two kids and a golden retriever in the front yard, right? That is a dying model. That is an old order model. It's a 20th century model. Today in the 21st century and the social media era, women are exposed to, what is it, the paradox of choice, right? It's the, they, all you have to do is go on your cell phone and go on Tinder and think you got, there's far more guys on Tinder than there are women on Tinder. So this sort of gives this idea that women have a higher threshold when it comes to like, well, attention or when, you know, from other guys. So there is the idea, anyways, this is the theory. And how is that Polly is an adaptation for the situation that's going on between like

what used to be just sort of the nuclear family right now. So when a woman, for instance, when a woman, when we're talking about Polly, Polly works differently for both guys, for men and for women. So when we think of Polly, we think of one guy who's like, yeah, man, I got three girls here. You know, this is great.

You know, but guys want to have that variety, you know, they want to have like the three ways or whatever it is, the common fantasy. So we think of Pie in those terms, but when we look at it in a modern sense, Paulie really kind of comes down to, who's the most attractive and who can leverage it the most? And today's society, it's women that can leverage it the most

because they are the ones that get the most attention online in a social media perspective. Again, going back to those stats, I had them here just a second ago, but it was, if you look at how couples met over the, from like 1950, all the way to 2020, and you look at like friends and family, school, church, whatever else it is, and you look at just like,

how low those numbers are right now, and there's one huge spike right now, and maybe you'll pick, he'll pick that huge spike right there, that's online dating, and that is like, and that And that's only in the last 15 to 10, 15 years right there. That is what, you wanna know why poly is so popular? That's why poly is so popular. So let's look at that, let's look. Cause of online dating.

Well, because of choice, because even just the presumption of choice. And I'm sure that's even higher because that's 2017. So through friends, 33% to 20%, bar restaurant went from 19% to 27% so that went higher. I'm sure it's lower for COVID because they nobody going to bars on COVID. At work, it went from 19 to 11%. I mean, people are no longer working. School college from 19 to 9% through family 15 to 70%.

Wow, so they're no longer going to Thanksgiving. You know, so going back to what we're talking about with this whole thing about availability, right? We looked at a stat a couple months ago, if you remember the stat, where the percentage of folks who were getting married online Versus through family it was seven times higher. Do you remember that stat? It was do you remember that so what we talked about? It was an article we covered people that meet online are more likely to get divorced and people who meet through friends or family

Or the most likely to stay married. Yeah So people who meet online are more likely to get a divorce and people who meet through friends and family And I think friends and family was the highest if I'm not mistaken right friends and family and it was work Why do you think that is why do you think the divorce is higher for online than friends and family? Okay, well again, it's your spoil for choice. That's that's first and foremost You have to have to look at the people will that's the one that's actually what I was looking at right there If you look at that spike, that really dramatic spike right there, that's, and when did that start right around 2000?

Can't see it from here. 1999. 1999, all the way up to where we're at right now. Yeah. Hey, old Chad, it's pretty slow. I see a lot of people. Yeah, but is that groundbreaking? That's like saying, social media is where people are doing

with their times. What is this saying is, what he's saying is, ability. Access. Our understanding, our expectations of marriage, our expectations of forming a relationship are based on pre-2000 standards. I'm Gen X, you're Gen X, I believe. But even if you're millennial right now,

you still remember an age in the 90, if you watch an episode of Friends, that's the old order way we used to do relationships. We still have this expectation, this ideal of this 20th century model for relationships in an age where we look at a dramatic spike like that in how people meet online. And again, you can't just take that one data point

and just like say, this is it. There's all other interrelated data points that go along with that. You're also looking at men who are falling out of the lost boys generation, the guys who are not getting laid right now because I'm looking at the GSS study right now. Men are far more sexless today than any other time in history, any other generation in history. In cell concept. Yeah, it is. It's in cell concept,

but it's also statistically a reality. Yeah, my friend David Dylan was like, 28% right? What I just read this thing is, 28% of men below the age of 30 are sexless. They're still either virgin or they're. What was that number again? 28% of men below the age of 30,

you know, up to 30 are sexless. What can those guys do? Is this some of the big, the triad make, up to 30, are sexless. What can those guys do? Is this some of the big, the triad, make more money? Yeah, make more muscles. Yeah, my muscles game, yeah. And I mean, if you want a prescription, that's where I will go to. However, that data point set against this stuff, you're going to ask me, why is Paulie a big deal?

Why is it now we're not getting married? Why is it? Well, of course, divorce rates are lower now as well, because nobody's getting married. And so we're looking for alternatives to that right now. We're looking for alternative ways of forming families. And I think we're kind of doing a piss poor job of it right now, because we're still thinking that we can get back to this 20th century model for relationships in an age where 28% of men below 30 aren't getting

any and we're looking at how are they how are they finding each other. Okay, also look at what are the demographics and what are the numbers of men versus women on those dating apps to begin with. It's mostly men and I like, like, I ocean of men and like a very few select set of women who are getting those responses. You know what's unique about you is that in some fashion, you're a traditionalist, meaning you've been married for 30 years, you're married.

I'm a fan. 25 years. I ride the cusp, yes. I ride the fence man. I can remember a pre-internet age and I post internet age. And so I'm gonna, and by the way, once, I'm the last of my kind, because once we're gone, nobody's going to have that pre-conception anymore. Certainly not to the

degree that I don't know about. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. They want that conventional, they want that conventional monopoly. I think there's always going to be, we sometimes think we're more important than we really are, and there's nothing wrong with being that confident, that's great, but I think people like you are always going to be there to challenge conventional thinking. I hope there's going to be. It's no question. Listen, Jewish proverb, three things every man should do is what?

Write a book, plan to tree, have a son, right? I mean, it's a, the whole purpose behind it doesn't go have a son today. It's just saying like the fact that when you do that, messages go to the next one. I asked this open relationship thing because of the one show that we're doing, but it's also it's been coming up and, hey, you think it's this, you think it's that, what about this?

Sometimes you've got single guys I wanna get married who don't wanna give up the life of being single. You know how you talk about in your 20s, never fully commit to one. I don't know what word you use, but you use some. That's not a 48 loss of power by the way. Yeah, of course.

Robert Greentop, you talk about that as well where, you know, keep your options open when you're young. So you're 30. Don't consider Monogamy until you. Yeah, so that's what you say. That's what you say. Okay. You know, so you're kind of like, when you're single, you know, you don't have the,

what's the RCA? Responsibility, commitment, accountability, right? Those three things that we fear, that we don't want. We just, I don't want to be responsible for one. I don't want to be committed to one. I don't want to be accountable. The reality of it is, you ain't going to be married for 25 years if you don't follow the RCA rule

and commit to that, right? How does one, who is single? and it's been single for a while and has been very good at being single for a while? How does that person who is now especially and this is going to sound like I'm talking about you but I'm talking about a lot of friends right now that we have that are late thirties, early forties, they don't need to get married, they're doing great, they're making money but they're getting to a point where they're sitting there saying, I wouldn't mind having a kid.

I wouldn't mind having a family. Honestly, I'm so sick of it. The number they used to matter when you would brag to your friends, you know the number, you're like, oh, I've been with this many other. They're not scoundless. No one cares anymore. Like who cares about what the number is anymore?

At this point, it mattered in 20s. It doesn't matter in your 40s. What challenges is that 40 year old male gonna face to go from being fully free for many, many years to all of us and decide to commit to one person and build a family? What challenge is that guy gonna face? Yeah, I have my friend John from Modern Life Dating

is a probably pretty good example of this as well. As once you get to that point, once you get to like 36, 37 years old, and let's just say you've been on your game, you have maximized your potential as, you know, your value as a guy. There will come a point where you have, let's just say, solve the mystery of women. You've solved the mystery of money.

You've solved the mystery of whatever it is that sort of has been your obsession for as long as it has been. And now it seems kind of like old news to you. And what's the next challenge? What's the next goal? And I have said this as well, is that I think that, again, that men and women are in the compliments were better together than we are apart. And I think that at some stage, men are going to say, you know what, I would rather have

the quality than the quantity. But those guys don't get to that stage unless they kind of go through the idea that they either had the quantity or that they could have had the quantity. Most men, like I said, when the average age of marriage for men is the ones that are getting married, is like 29 years old.

That also coincides right at that epiphany phase that I was just talking to you guys about. So when that guy's 29 years old and he's not quite reached his peak potential when he gets to 36, 37 years old and he's already committed to a woman who was like 28 years old back in the day, he might be thinking, well, damn, I didn't know I was going to be this hot. I didn't know I was going to have this much money. I didn't know I was going to be at this status. And that's why you get things like the midlife crisis at that point. And so it's not so much a midlife crisis as it is,

oh, damn, I now realize my own potential. And now I'm having second thoughts or now I'm like, you know, I'm going to go buy a sports car to sort of relive my youth. That's really sort of where that comes from. But when those guys are not committed and they get to two thirties, that's one scenario, the other scenario is the one you just said is one they get to be 36, 37 years old, maybe 38 years old, pushing 40.

And they go, you know what, I'm done with this. I really kind of want to log out and I want to have something that's a little more permanent. They'll ask me, they'll say, Rollo, I don't want to get with one of these girls on Fresh and Fit, who's like 18, 22 years old because they seem kind of really, you know, flyty and not somebody you wanna start something with.

But also, I don't wanna get with the woman who's sort of like used up and is really kind of full of herself on alpha female at 33 years old, who is sort of built herself into that archetype. What, how do I solve my problem? I tell them you say, you know, you have to look for certain, you have to be a good judge of character, you've got to be able to, if you're reading my books,

if you're red pill aware, if you're a good judge of character, if you maximize your potential, I've always said that the sweet spot is kind of somewhere between like, say 25 and 27 years old, and looking for a woman who understands like what her sexual market value is versus what her personal value is, and those women do exist. I want to point that out. I think a lot of people think that

I think all women are the same. No, all men are the same. No, I'm not saying that. There are commonalities that are characteristic of men and women. We have our innate differences, of course. But when you're talking to women in different cultures, in different religions, in different countries, wherever, those cultures are going to be vastly different than they are here in the United States because maybe they haven't been corrupted with feminism or whatever to that point. So you're looking at women in Muslim majority countries, you're looking at Latin countries, those women are going to be of a different understanding of what we're going forward. This is what I'm going to be of a different kind of like understanding of like we're going forward,

this is what I'm gonna be about. So there's a lot of variables that get that going back. So culture, so at that, this is what I took from with and I'm curious what your follow up's gonna be there, is I'll turn it over to you right after this. So to me, based on what you just said, this is what I took away from it. Culture and tradition is something you ought to value

at that age. You ought to look for that. Is that kind of what you're saying that? You should at least have a good understanding of how that person with male or female came to their, certainly their belief sets, but also what is it that has acculturated them into the personalities that they have?

So definitely, there's environmental influences. There's natural innate influences and then there's cultural influences as well. What do you think about that? You know, you know, split your age plus seven. Half plus seven? Yeah. Well, let me tell you something about like age appropriateness. It only works in the female sense. It doesn't work in the male sense because we live in a gynecentric social order that says, well, you know, was it Keanu Reeves, when he was dating his, I think she was like 46, and he's like my age, like 53 or 54 years old. And the woman he was dating at the time looks like his mother,

looks like she's got gray hair and everything. And women were just like, yeah, you're dating somebody that's age appropriate. You look at Leonardo DiCaprio, none of his girlfriends have been older than 25 years old. And as soon as they get to 26, he cycles them out and gets another 23 year old. Right, like an expired can of milk.

Exactly. And so that's, and you can, there are actually online sites that like track his girlfriend's age is across the, so who's doing it right? Who is Leo doing it right? Or is, is, is Kiana doing it right? can still what the lady I don't I don't know But that was yeah, that's the that's the the Gal right there. I believe Hugh Jackman is like yeah, Hugh Jackman

Hugh Jackman is my age is 53 and his wife is 66 years old. What's Jason? No Jason Mimola just broke up with Lisa Bonay who is 54 and I believe he's 41 or 42 Lisa Monet had to go on for a while and she was with any crab Macron PM of France is the president prime minister whatever. Yeah, his wife is like 20 years old isn't him But we only have a we only have a problem with age Appropriateness when it is a man that is dating a two-year-young. So what's two-year-young?

Half plus seven is the 10 years. If you look at the difference between, say, like Lisa Bonet and Jason Mammo, what's about a 10-year difference? 13 years, yeah. Well, 13 years. So if you've got a guy who's 33 and he's dating a 20-year-old girl, technically, it's illegal. You can go ahead and do that.

But we go, oh my gosh, he's robbing the cradle, right? it's the other way around oh she's a cougar I don't think about I just think is it gonna work you know you may you may be like oh that's cool you see more and action country yeah that was a that was a success story me look when this showed up me look when this showed up you know it's a yes yeah well he brought up a really good story because it's almost like the case example he was giving is essentially me. So, the, you know, ultimately a lot of the questions that you ask are who do you want to be, right?

So who do you want to be? Who I want to be now at age 41 is a lot different than who I wanted to be at age 31. So it really, like, I'll give you a story from the graduation camp. Well, yeah, but that comes with finding your purpose, making money, having some heartbreak issues, whatever, you know, good relationships, bad relationships, it happens through life.

But ultimately, you have to be like, okay, do I want to be single at 51? Hell no. Who do I want to be? Like, thank Hell no. Who do I want to be? Like, thank God I've got a lot of good people in my ear. Like Pat, that shows me, all right, cool. You can be successful, you can have money, you can still have fun, you can be a family man,

you can do it all, you can have it all, if that's what you want. So, I tell the story on podcasts that I do that I believe that you're gonna be on Thursday. So, I met a girl that I haven't seen in years. I saw her out or I didn't know that I knew her. I was like, oh, she's really attractive tall. Whatever.

We get to talking and I'm like, oh, I remember you with Kala. I'm like, how old are you? I'm 40, you're 40? You look incredible. She's like, yeah, we should get together sometime. Here's my number. Call me. I never called her.

40. I don't think that's my number, call me. I never called her. 40. I think, and I don't think that's gonna work out so much. Because I'm thinking, I wanna get married, I wanna have kids. That's just not gonna be in my, and then you're speaking of polyamorous. So this past weekend, I'm out, my birthday, South Beach, having a fun time.

I see a girl that I hadn't seen in a little while, she goes, what's up? How are you? You have a girlfriend? No. Joaquingly, I go, do you have a girlfriend? Ha ha. She goes, yeah, I actually do. Oh, okay. This is going to get fun. She's like, you should come out with us, whatever, whatever. So I'm out with her and her girlfriend, but we're kind of got a thing going on. And we have a thing, it's my birthday, she gives me a kiss, whatever. I'm like, why is your friend having a bad attitude?

She's like, I don't know, she just kinda feels like a third wheel. She's like, I think it would be a lot better and make things less awkward if you kiss her. I'm like, okay. So, boom, make out with a friend now. So now I'm making out two girls, it's kinda insane. And I'm telling my boys this, like the next day.

And they're like, so almost like, you know, Adrian or whatever. What is like, bro, are you kidding me? You gotta take the two girls, oh my God, you like, there's that friend, right? It's like a steel panther video. Exactly, exactly. And then there's the other friend that's like,

you know, almost like the Angel in Devil, it's like, listen bro, like, you know, you really wanna mess with these kind of like, ratchet, not just she was ratchet, but these more scandalous type girls, is that really what you're looking for? So there's part of me that's like, and this is for most men, I would assume.

By the way, the fact that you're being that transparent about it. Yeah, that you can't. Most men want to like, are thinking, here's the difference, so. Here's a different still. Here's a different still. Here's a difference.

thinking here's a difference. Here's a different still here's a difference. Adam is in shape. He's made money attractive charming charismatic. You would be qualified as a natural. So for you, your six one athlete, you are extremely likable people like you. You don't have enemies, you're chill, you're cool to be around, right? You have that side. I think and correct me if I'm wrong, it's harder for you to want to consider, to want to build that, you know, that life. Because for me, when I was, when I was,

I got out of one relationship, being this girl we're together, she's a Libra, I'm a Libra, you know, we when we were friends tight Great, but she was so dominant personnel a super competitive and you know, honestly like we were part of week away from World War three You know afterwards. I'm kind of like I Was convinced I sat down with the Leo's wife, Patty and I said, Patty, you know what, listen, I just come to a conclusion. I actually enjoy my own company.

I actually enjoy my own company. Somebody talking about it, I'm telling you, I'm the guy that on Sundays, I will wake up in the morning, I'll go to Santa Monica, I'll do the stairs, I'll go to the gym, I'll go to the beach that I go to. I'll go to the same seat I sit at, that PF Changs in the corner, the same waiter gives me four-hour no-palmers. I eat the same exact freaking thing. I call the same person that I go spend some time with. Then I go to this place and then I come and I go to the office and I work all night and I

strum one day more. I sound totally fine. I said, I'm gonna have six and a half days to work against my competitors. Everybody else is gonna work five days a week. Why would I wanna get married, right? I'm going through this process. And I have options. It's not like I'm... Logistics and pragmatism. Exactly.

It is like, you know what, if you have a wife, if you have kids, do you really wanna have that and all this other stuff? Now, there's a different side of me as well that, you know, God's played a very important role in my life. And I'm talking incredible, or I would not be where I'm at right now without the man upstairs, believe me. So the fight I had on both sides is like, I want to,

I want to be a good example, I want to lead, but I got this side that's a, like a Tasmanian devil, don't control me, leave me alone, all this other stuff. What did it to me as the following? Here's what it did. I got to a point where I realize I want to have a family. I want to have kids. And I don't know what else am I gonna get out of my system?

Like it was like, what else do I need to do to get the check mark? Like you know, you get that checklist with 42 things to do before you get married. I'm like 44, so I'm like, okay, so what else you got to experience to say, wow, this is so cool. To go out to the knees. I, what haven't you, right? So there comes that moment where you sit there and you say, I ain't going to be this age forever. One day, I'm going to be 50, 60, 70. Do I want to be the 62 year old dating a 26 year old every other day or do I want to be the 60 year old,

having been with the same person for 16, 17 years and looking forward because I'm teaching my son or my daughter and I'm living you know through them and I'm teaching them certain values and principles that maybe I learned from mistakes. I made stuff I learned from my mom, I did that whoever it is and I'm passing on to somebody. I think that's the battle for a guy who's a performer who's crushing it, sitting there saying, but for my thoughts, correct me, if you disagree with this. I think for that to happen, and I was kind of seeing what angle you were gonna take, what direction you were gonna go,

I think for that to happen, certain rituals has to change. Oh yeah. I just think certain things have to change. Like for example, you know, everybody that's going after Joe Rogan, it's a cool thing to do, right? You have to Joe Rogan. Yeah, that's why, let me tell you, I can't believe he said that.

You know, even Joe Rogan is going after you. Yeah, by the way, shout out to Dave Portinoid. I don't know if you did. Did you watch that episode or no? Did you want to see the clip? No, no. You don't need to pull it up up because it's on a different podcast, but Dave Portano is doing a podcast with these three guys.

What's their names? Is it minus? Is it the media? Yes, yes, yes. Might as such a media study, right? Might as such, yes. The Democratic Super PAC. Yeah, but which by the way, they're great for the Democrats

on what they're doing. They're super believeers. They support them, they go after everybody, and they're who you want on your side, okay. They're super believe it true believers. They support them, they go after everybody, and they're who you want on your side. Okay. They're the Patrick Beverly, is they're that guy that you want on your team, right? The son of a bitch is.

The son of, yeah, you want that. Like, you know, you got three people, the dreamer, the businessman, and the son of a bitch. You need that, right? So what happens when you point finger nonstop to everybody? Joe's a racist, Joe's this, Joe's that, Joe's this. He said this, he said that. So, you know

Howard story of it. Let me tell you we got no problem. Okay. Just yesterday a video came out by Howard Stern Making fun of whoopie Goldberg and using did you see how uncunk it's so uncomfortable to even watch this right? He said so many things about this guy, okay about the blacks the words he used and in this guy, okay, about blacks, the words he used. And in this guy that they have Portanois interviewing with them, the three guys on his podcast, well, Dave, let me ask you this, do you think it's okay for Joe to use the N word? So Dave says, oh, listen, I've already answered that question, I'm not going to answer the question again, but use what I will do. So what if I told you I have a text from one of you three here that used the N word and it's three brothers and they're quiet. You have to see this, okay? What if you know, I'm able to find a text that you guys, well, prove it.

One of the two brothers say, prove it. One brother doesn't say prove it. So you know the one brother that says prove it is like shut up. He was saying anything. What do you say? And he says, where one of you guys engaged to a girl named Lexi and you should see this one guy's face. He's like, so classic. I have a text. I have a text that you use the N word in the text. Mm. And it was like, Oh, shit, we can't now cancel our brother. You know, oh man. So it kind of catches up to you,

right, it flips on you, turns on you. Then the rock, well let me tell you, you know, now that I learn I've gotten educated and rock is on, and then it's like, hey, video comes back about what he said about the, you know, making fun of Chinese. And so where is this thing, right? I think certain things you have to cut away from.

You have to cut away from the idea of that people walk on water and perfection and that's just not gonna exist, right? So let me bring you back. I went all over the place and added four other current events which check list for you, Tyler, but here's where I'm going with this. Okay, here's where I'm going with this.

The older I get, the older you get, it's gonna be harder to find somebody that's gonna meet all the criteria you're looking for because no one walks on water. That's number one. So you're always gonna be like, no, no, yeah, but no, no, yes, parents, family, education, church, pie, height, toes, hair, face, nose, skin, so church, no, no, no, so a nobody gonna fit then there's gotta be somebody because you don't walk on water. I should, I definitely don't walk on water.

So, hey, what are we gonna do with this, right? And if you're gonna do that, certain things have to dramatically change. Like if we're gonna go into this era of media where we're gonna be holding everybody accountable for stuff that they say, you have to know. We have to cut away from everybody has to walk on water. Nobody does.

The moment you open your mouth, you risk. You risk criticizing an offending somebody. So that's why I think I think the older you get, you have to really make a decision there and say, you know what, I gotta remember, when I said, yeah, I'm gonna build a family. I stopped communicating with certain people that I know I wasn't going to.

I went immediately and made a list. I read the book, and I went and started dating these four girls, not promiscuous, we were not, this was not a sexual relationship. I'm dating four girls, every one of them, I did the exercise with, and in the next thing, you know, it got to somebody, and I said, I think this one's gonna work out.

And Jennifer and I went through the 100 wrong questions to ask before we get engaged. 18 months later, we're married, now we got four kids, we're married for 12 and a half years. Do I think this is gonna last for the rest of my life? I have no clue. From the day I got married, I said, we're gonna take this one year at a time.

And we've done it 12 times so far, right? Because you never know what's gonna change which your life or her life or anything. Anything else that could happen. All I'm saying is, if somebody at that age wants to make that dramatic change, certain lifestyle things got to change. That's just, I may be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking.

When people ask me, people who hate on me or criticize me, they usually come at it from two different angles. One of them is, Rollo can't be red pill he's married. Therefore, I have no experience, I'm not out in the game and I'm not out there hustling and I'm not out there in the clubs and picking up girls and getting my notch count up. And then there's a guy who will say, well, Rollo can't be married, he's red pill. And that's usually the traditional conservative guys who want to say, well, you know, you don't agree with marriage. Like I've come out very vocally against marriage on several occasions. And this is from a guy who has been in, you know, for the last 25 years, what I think most men would consider a pretty ideal marriage.

And when people get upset with me about saying that, you know, marriage is an un-conscious contract or men have more maneuverability, they have more flexibility, they have more opportunities outside of marriage today than they do inside marriage. People just think I am anti-marriage. I am not. I would very much, I'm still 100%, maybe it's the old school in me, but I still 100% believe in the institution of marriage.

And I would love for nothing better than for you and anyone else watching this. If you're a guy, I would love for you to have what I have had for, you know, the last 25 years and really 26 and a half. But I would love for you to be able to have that, but I can't endorse that. I can't advocate for that right now, because the way we do marriage today is completely all downside risk for most guys at this point.

So when you're talking to me about like, well, you know, I just, I made out with two chicks and I got, you know, I'm on top of my game. I'm hitting my stride. I'm, you know, well, you're in your forties, but let's just say, you know, 36, 38 somewhere around there. I am at the peak of my sexual selectivity right now and I'm going to finally enjoy it

because I had to eat shit from the time I was 20 or 18, high school all the way up to where I'm at right now because I had to come up. I had to pay my dues on a get to the point where I'm at right now. And you're telling me I've got to settle on one woman in a state of Westernized marriage right now where I first of all, I can lose half of my stuff. And then second of all, it's like, why would I want to get into that situation when I'm finally hitting my stride?

And a lot of guys, because it takes longer for them to mature into their peak potential, they don't see any point in say, the guys who are the highest value men out there, who have the money, who have the gain, who have the muscles, who have all of those checkpoints off, that women want to get with, the women that women are complaining, the men that women are complaining about,

that they can't find a right, the right guy, you're the guy, not the army of beta males that they rejected all throughout their 20s, they're complaining about a guy who won't settle down. And now you're infantile, you have a fragile ego, you're threatened by strong women because you won't commit to her when you're finally at the position in your life at 36,

where she was when she was 23 years old and nobody gave her any kind of money for it back then. So what you're up against and what you're talking about as well is when you get to that point, you have to decide what opportunities and what are the compromises and what are the sacrifices I'm willing to make as a man in my peak potential years, what compromises am I willing to make for a woman for me to want to say, you know what, I'm gonna give up all that opportunity for you. And is that woman gonna appreciate that? Is she gonna be, oh, well, thank you for doing that,

or is she gonna be entitled to the fact that she believes that she belongs with a guy who is a high value guy as it is? And that's the paradox that's going to, you wanna know why the marriage rates are low. You want to know why it was Morgan Stanley forecasted that by 2030 women in prime working demographic age, like it was a 25 to 45 of that cohort, 42 percent, I believe, are going to be single and child bliss during that time by 2030. that's, how does that change a society?

How does that change the United States? How does that change our Western way of life when we have this high demographic of women, with population of women who are not marrying, not having kids right now. There's just another article I think it was in the UK how women after 30% of women after the age of 30 don't have kids and they don't have any prospects

to have kids, that does a number on women. They want kids though. But yeah, they do with you, they want kids with the guy who's the high value. Should they rock side by? They want to with the guys who's up. So they're not gonna settle as much as you. Who's of your characteristics.

There's a, I don't know, I should have called it up, but there's actually a calculator on it's called, like, if the female delusion calculator, and you type in, like women say, okay, I want a guy with six foot tall, I want a guy to make, you know, $100,000 a year, he's got to be available. And this is all these little criteria,

and it will show you what the percentage chance is, or what percentage of the population, that's it right there. What percentage of the population, that's it right there. What percentage of the population? You should type that in. Yeah, go down there and do it quick. It's very easy. Go do a quick experiment.

Should do one for him. Do it for his age. What's your age again? 41. 41, so let's get into 41. You are white, so we can put that in. How tall are you? Six foot? Six foot. Oh man

And minimum income I've presumed you you'd make six figures. No, well, correct Okay, so it maxes out it maxes out a hundred thousand. Okay, now find The probability of finding a guy like you is point one three percent You can see Adam Zingo just one in a row. Now before, before anybody say your ego is not your me go. I'm gonna roll it. You just roll everything. You just chance is just one more of him.

Just watch that. Now before you get too big ahead, before people go, I don't believe that. There, if you go and you look at how they rate the statistics that are all statistics that are available by census bureau data by,, I'm probably seeing, we see GSS studies. So that's the same as foreign enthusiasts, what was that?

Tyler, go back to us and say cat enthusiasts. Please go back to us. Yeah, the cat enthusiasts. I think it's foreign enthusiasts. No, no, cat enthusiasts. That's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, the spinster that factor for women.

That's the, that's the, it's so, Metro. So if we're women or for men. That's the spinster that factor for women. That's a, that's a, it's a Metro. That's for women or for men. That's for women. There's another one for men as well. So looking for cats, I got you. So statistically speaking, like if women wanted a guy that is just like you, you, you are a representative

of 0.13% like the popular, the US popular. It's game over. This is all we're gonna hear all day. My confidence is just one of the real friends. Now we're like all day, all month. Now you know why Polly is popular. Now do you know why guys are holding like when you get to, you know, you're hitting your side?

So what would you tell a guy, like if you're saying, you are married, you're happily married, you wanna have, like I'm telling you, I've lived in South Beach my whole life. You do not want to be the 60 year old guy in the club. I know that, I've seen, like, I remember saying, I'm gonna do well in this game. I'm gonna make it.

I'm not gonna get that anyways. I don't, like, there's no chance that I'm gonna be 50 still out there in the club, a club space in Miami. It's not happening. Like, but what would you tell a guy? Because there's a lot of sick, there's entrepreneurs here.

People believe in capitalism, people with self-improvement. A lot of people watch this channel because they wanna do better than they thinking big. This is kind of what our brand is. Well, would you tell the person whether they're 32, 35, 40, 45, whatever, and they haven't settled down yet. What advice do you have for them? I'll tell you, I had this conversation with my friend Rich Cooper, and he asked me on his show one time, how did you vet for Mrs. Tamos? In my answer was, I didn't vet her.

I vetted myself first. I asked myself the first question I said is like when I was considering actually being married to anyone at that point, was is this a person that I can be faithful to? Is this a person that I can, because I know what happens when a couple splits up. I know what happens to a family, to multiple families, to the children,

to everything else that goes along in there. There's one of the, I think the unspoken importance happens to a family, to multiple families, to the children, to everything else that goes along in there. One of the, I think the unspoken importance of the Red Pill is that we don't, well, it will at least allow you to see like the ripple effect, the cascade effect. So what are your actions doing right now that are going to affect other people?

And so when I was vetting my wife, I don't say even vetting, I had to vet myself. I said, can I be faithful to this woman? Because I know me, I've seen me do it, right? I've been cheated on and I've been the cheater myself in my past, right? And so I don't want to open that can of worms if I can't be 100% and the answer was yes, I could.

And that was the first question I asked myself. And really, I think in your instance right now What opportunities are you willing to sacrifice what what are you willing to compromise right now? Are you willing to compromise making out with two girls in the beach? Right are you willing to Compromise the opportunities it's like opportunity there you go right here. Here's your go pros and cons What what are you willing to sacrifice and what are what's a deal breaker and cons. Pros and cons. You signed right here in red, man. What are you willing to sacrifice and what's a deal breaker and what's not a deal breaker?

And then what you have to do is once you have decided what that is, you have to set that against the girls that you think are good candidates for a long-term relationship. That's very difficult for guys to do right now. Well, what is the biggest fear in somebody in this situation? Is it just have to be with one for the rest of my life? I can't party anymore. I have to give up some of my freedom.

What else is it? Why would somebody- It's a opportunity cost. Opportunity cost, for sure. Like what are the opportunities that, even myself as an example too? I've been married for 25 years. What opportunities have I missed out?

And not just sexual opportunities. I mean like business opportunities or job opportunities or relocation opportunities or family or whatever else that maybe I wanted to do that I could not do as a result of having a relationship with, you know, being in a marriage, having a kid, having my dogs, whatever else. All of that stuff, all the responsibilities that we say is, you know, men need to take on responsibilities. Well, those responsibilities come at a cost, and that cost is generally scaled out at whatever those opportunities were that you could have invested yourself into.

Had you not been single or had you been not been married at that time. You would not be who you are right now 42 with the money you have and being certainly, you know, 0.13% of the population. Had you made a different decision when you were 28, you know, 30 years old when I got married, right? I'm a different person as a result of that. You know, it's life choices. It's lifestyle decisions, but most guys don't make those decisions based on educated, you know, educated assumptions. So right now, you have a life of learned experiences that you can kind of reflect back on. You're probably a better judge a character. Men, it was the joke, you know, men don't become men until they're 30 years old. And so the reason why I say don't consider monogamy until you're 30 or you certainly don't

even consider marriage if you're going to consider marriage until you get to be about 34, 35 years old is because you're at that point where you're finally hitting your stride and you're a better judge of character and you're better able to make that estimate, that evaluation between what are the opportunities I'm gonna miss and what are the benefits of me settling down with a woman for a very long time and making things work out. What would you call that earlier frame? That's definitely your frame.

You have to have the frame, by the way, is the world into which you enter or she enters. And you right now have a world that a lot of women would like to enter into. And so you have to ask, they can't come in. Well, and then you also have to make sure, you have to keep that in mind,

when you're making the decision, is this someone that I can be faithful to? When you were in. You said that was the first question that you asked yourself when you were gonna settle down. Why was that the first question? Was that the most important question? Well, because I, like I said, I know me,

you know, it definitely it is, because it is, I think a lot of people under-appreciate the effect of genuine desire. And genuine desire is like unmitigated, like, you know, in a sexual sense, it's unmitigated, you know, lust, like there's a, there's a qualifiable difference between a man work that a woman says, I wanna have kids. It's time for me to have kids.

My biological clock is ticking and that woman says, I want to have his babies. I want to have that guy's family. I want to have kids. I basically want to, you know, reproduce with that guy. There's a big difference between those two statements. Has it been hard for you being what you talk about and what you stand for to be faithful? and hard for you being what you talk about and what you stand for to be faithful? No, because I was able to answer that question back then, can I be faithful to her?

And she was everything I was looking for. Still is everything I'm looking for. He's about to get emotional. Oh, yeah. No, I don't. I'm trying to be like, that's when you're 28, that's, yeah, okay, I'll be faithful. Well, I've had a different experience.

Like we've seen the video of Urban Meyer who's married and whatever, that's when you're 28, that's, yeah, okay, I'll be faithful. Well, I've had a different experience. We've seen the video of Urban Meyer who's married and whatever, and now he's getting a lap dance at the bar from a girl in Jacksonville, and I'm not sure that he, I don't know what he did that was necessarily too wrong, but he wasn't necessarily faithful, but. Well, there's a bit of, what you say when you're 28, what happens

when you're 41 on a club? Yeah, but Jordan Peterson, let me ask you a question. What did you think when Jordan Peterson said, you know, divorce should be 100% out of the question? Oh, that's right. How do you process that? How do you process that? Yeah, Jordan Peterson said that no matter how bad your marriage is, you should stay married for the sake of the kids. Essentially advocating for the what nuclear family is that 100%. So even as miserable as you are you're fighting you're not having sex with your you know you're not meant to be at what point do you say you know we tried what is it and at what age of the kids okay it is yes do you think no matter what you should stay

marriage I think that if if you again one of the reasons why I vetted myself before I did in my wife was because of exactly that. Can I be faithful to this person? Because if I can't, then I should not be reproducing and starting a family and building this huge world or my frame around all of this. If that one little point, if that one fundamental point can't be maintained. So yes, sex is the glue that holds relationships together. Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. Sex is the glue that holds

marriages together. And if that falls apart, I mean, you go look at the statistics for sexless marriages in the United States right now. It's like something like at least 20 percent. And a sex is married, by the way, is like 10 times a year, right? Like once a month or, you know, and then skip two months, I think that's what the definition is. But you're saying you should stay married even if you're in a sexless relationship. I think that once you're already in that, I think it's very important to, as far as raising the children, if you want to build strong families, now a lot of people will disagree with me on that because they'll say, well, you know, I'm not getting what I need out of the relationship. And it's usually the woman that is saying that,

it's not so much the man, the men will, will put up and tolerate way more than women will when it comes to like a bad marriage because they have more to lose. Women are more incentivized, financially incentivized to file for divorce. This is one of the reasons why 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Then you get social narratives like what we call divorce porn, which is eat, pray love or still a gutter groove back. Just divorce, girl, he's not the one for you. He was never your soulmate.

You need to go run off to Jamaica and have a good time and find your soulmate there after you divorce. Pretty good movie, but that's about it. It's a divorce porn. It's a fantasy for women who are like, who gets to the point where they settled on a guy who was not the one, was not their soulmate. The one that got away was the guy in their college days. And they get, you want to know why they call it the seven-year itch.

It's because it's usually right around seven years that women have that, they decide, is he the best that I can do? And more and more, certainly since the 70s, women, the answer to that is no. And to the point where we can go build very profitable franchises in romance novels and narratives, go look at anything, like Netflix says, it's chock full of those narratives.

50 shades of gray, when that was like the biggest thing on the fly. 50 shades of gray, by the way, remember 50 shades of gray was self-published. It was not like put a few hundred errors in the book. Yes, and it sold 65 million copies in the first like, like year or that. What do you mean a few errors in the book. Yes, and it sold 65 million copies in the first like, like, year or that, it would have been a few errors. Oh, it was published. The guy had like, who's who's lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, like spelling errors.

It was basically fan fiction, but it was just rewritten by E.L. or E.L. something, or I can't remember the last thing. 50 some year old, what's it? Late 40, I don't know how old she was, but she was a load. But hit on a very popular narrative because it's the fantasy.

It's a fantasy of, and it's a fantasy with a lot of commonalities in it as well. But you have to look at the popularity of that. I remember in, we talked about church, I remember church women going, have you read 50 shades of gray? I can't wait till the movie comes out, and it was all good in the hood to be reading this. The movie sucked, but the sound's like. And you know what you know what pastors are the air, you know, religious guys are the air, they say, Oh, it's a failure of men. It's a failure of men that we that we've allowed

this to happen with women or we can't live out, we can't measure up to that. And so we're ready to self-flagulate and blame ourselves for those for, you know, the impulse as much as that. So, so, so, so, let me, let me, let me ask a question, just from you, I'm gonna ask a question. Do you think the more Intel you get, the more it's kind of like, well, sure, you gotta do this and you gotta do home, this guy said this and that guy, well, you know, this guy said, oh, but this guy said this, but that guy said this, but this guy said this, where you kind of like,

data overload. Yeah, data overload to the point where you can make but this guy said, but that guy said this, but this guy said this where you kind of like, data overload. Yeah, data overload to the point where you can't make a decision. Do you think that kind of hurts a little bit? I can see for the type of person that gets in your head and second guesses everything, why that would hurt, but I'm a type of person that's gonna remember the two or three most powerful things that someone says.

The two or three, you know, and I say, all right, cool, this is what I'm taking from this, because not everyone's gonna remember every single part of this. No, that's not what I'm asking. No, that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is, I think you understand what I'm asking. What I'm asking is it's kind of like, you, you almost read, like, if I knew at 21 years old,

how hard it was going to be to be an entrepreneur and somebody would have told me, I don't know if I would have gone. If somebody would have told me flat out, here's, I would have been like, if they would have sat down and said, let me tell you, here's what's going to be, here's what's going to be, here's what's going to be, here's what's going to be, here's what's going to be, I'm like, it was more, listen, if you do this, here's what your life could look like. This is the dream. This is the dream life that could look like. But guess what? The chances of you living this dream life is 1%. If that scares the crap out of you, don't do it. If you're all in and your dreams matter, go for it.

Go light it up, right? But the choice and the onus is on who, on you and I to do that. Marriage. I had to get to this place to get married, just so you know, I'll tell you where I had to get to. I had to get to divorce was a challenge because my parents got a divorce. And as a kid, I always like as a kid, I think about when my dad would walk up the stairs in Iran and it would come to the Fort Floor. The happiest day of my moment of my day was a five minutes

when I would see his head go like this with the steps because our door was glass. And I would see his head go up like this. I would run up to him. Five minutes wrestle. I'd go to sleep. I was good. I was at peace. Right, when they got a divorce, that head coming up, the steps disappeared in my life. That's it, believe it or not, that's all I remember. I love that moment with my mom and dad. They got a divorce, right? And they got divorced twice

and 20 years, by the way, my parents. So I sat there and I said, well, in both of them, neither one of them were supportive of the other. It's kind of like, well, you know, marriage is not this, let me tell you a woman, is there a manager, not all this stuff, right? Now I should have done this, and I should have done this,

and I should have done this, and I would, this was this girl, and there was this guy, and what if this, everybody, you know, and someone, I was younger, we always say, when I was younger, it was so attractive, it was so this one, great, fantastic. So there are some regrets we're all gonna have, no matter what the decision we make, right?

Okay. And then later on, I got to a point where I said, all right, so let's just face it, there's a possibility that could get a divorce. But guess what, parents did the right thing getting a divorce. My parents did the right thing getting a divorce and you turned out okay.

And so did your sister turn out okay. So this whole thing that it's gonna ruin the kids, it does, absolutely it does, emotionally fear all this anxiety, 1 million percent by yourself, dad's not there, absolutely, it does, emotionally, fear all this anxiety. One million percent by yourself, that's not there. I can't come, I can't talk to somebody. The face as you go through as a kid being bullied, certain, you don't have, you can't talk to your mom the same we talked to your dad, the same we can't talk to your dad, the way

you talk to your mom about certain things, right? So when that disappears, it's going to mess with you a little bit. But there's books, there's therapy, there's church, there's a lot of different ways you can rehash that and heal yourself. Just like you have, just like I've had, just like many of us have had to do, right? Then it got to point where I said, the one simple question, all right, so what's the worst case scenario? What's going to happen?

Okay, let's look at both ways. What's the worst thing that's going to happen that if you choose not to get married? You're 63 years old, sitting there saying, shh, when your friend's son is graduate and from college and you're there and all you're thinking about as well, you're clapping for this kid, you're thinking when your friend had that kid and he met the girl and you were there

and I kids graduate in college and I was a doctor and the emotional moment the father experienced with the son or the daughter, you're saying, I want that. You know, or you're saying, I want that. Or by yourself and you have all these girlfriends that you with, but there's nobody that you have depth of 30 years to share memories with you. Like, I have a kind of cool to have that.

Best friendship, when I see you and Keith together, it's freaking awesome. Well, we went to dinner, the other day, who spoke to Les at the dinner the other day. I didn't speak at all. For three hours, I just listened to the stories. It was freaking amazing seeing the connection that you guys have. That's like a

marriage, except it's a friendship, but it's a marriage, right? Some friends didn't make it. Some are not with us. Some are not here with us. And that's just a reality of it. But the worst case scenario on the other side is if it doesn't work out, it's a divorce. If it's a divorce, you can take everything away from me. Not true. There's great legal teams out divorce, you can take everything away from me. Not true. There's great legal teams out there that you can set things up upfront to manage expectations up front. There's something called an optional agreement. So the financial side, okay, that's out the window. Arrangements, what about this? Now, you're going to be fine with that as well

because everything can be on paper up front, okay? Those are the things that takes it out because I'm from the school of thought of where I'm at today's, I don't think, you know, a lot of people are like, listen, I'm at that age, I gotta get married because everyone's getting married. That's not true. Who cares if everyone's getting married? Everyone's having kids.

Who cares if everyone's a reason to get married? That's not a reason to get married at all. For either, sir. Absolutely. I've met people that are not married and they're very happy. They're very, very happy in content, but I've met more people that are not married

and they're miserable. It's just, everything becomes a guy put a comment here and I said, fantastic comment that you just put up. It's odds, everything is about odds. Everything in life is about odds. There's a no hundred percent better in investment that just doesn't exist. Well, I think a lot of people believe that they're going to just stumble into a perfect turn

key relationship. You have to remember that we're like a relationship, a good marriage, or even a good friendship, is something that you develop over time. It's like building a project together. It is not just about like, oh, look, I found this, you know, my brand new car, and I'm going to go drive my brand new car. It's something that you have to build upon. It's almost like an art project. It's like you collaborate. I play in a band, right? We make music together.

All four of us make music together. And it's not just about one particular guy. It's about all of us coming together, collaborating, and putting something together. You can look at it in that perspective. And that perspective, then yeah, it becomes something that's I think, I know Dr. Peterson would say it's more meaningful, but I would say it's certainly more substantial, it's

more impactful, and it produces something greater than the sum of the parts. So I definitely believe that. One of the reasons why I was saying that, I think that staying together for the sake of the kids, a lot of guys will end up doing that. You also remember that divorce was at 50% of marriages and divorce as it is right now. And again, then we have to look at what's the societal impact of divorce? What's the societal impact of single mothers? What is the societal impact of women who electively have kids?

Was it 42% of children are born out of wedlock in the United States today. That's 42% of children born in the United States are born out of wedlock today. That's terrible. Yes, either electively or they were together and they split up afterwards. That's just across the non-demographics, it's just like across, across the board. So what does that do to a society? What does, well, you know, should we stay together for the kids? The other thing comes down to a, and this is a little, I think, a little more,

a femoral of a thought here, is like, what is your, what is more important to you? Your commitment, or your commitment to the ideal of commitment, meaning like, I keep my commitments, that's my commitment to the ideal of commitment. Meaning like, I keep my commitments, that's my commitment to an ideal. So, it doesn't matter how bad this situation gets, I stuck it out because when I commit, I commit to something. Or is your commitment to yourself saying, this isn't working for me. I'm my own mental point of origin. I'm the primary in this and this commitment was a bad deal. And now I need to get out of it because I can't live like this anymore.

Is your commitment more, is it more important to be committed to something? Or is it more important to be committed to yourself? And that's where guys get when they get into that situation. When they thought it was a great deal when they got married and they find out that it's a raw deal afterwards. And then they also have to take into account the opportunities and the things that they could have participated in had they not make that commitment in the first place.

That's why I said when you're talking about, well how should I vet my wife? Understand what the opportunity costs are on there. Most guys never have even a occasion to even think about that. They can't believe that they're having sex with the girl in the first place. I hope she must be the one, right? And they're willing to even think about that. They can't believe that they're having sex with the girl in the first place. Oh, well, she must be the one, right?

And they're willing to go forward from that perspective and never get to the point where they're actually thinking about standards or vetting or anything else that goes along with that because either they're too low value or they're too high value and they're not, they don't on their way to their high value-ness to being an entrepreneur making their first million or whatever

They're not thinking about those questions and so they get into a similar state of like trouble as a result of that So when I say you know, you know, I think that the divorce you know women will say this all the time Divorce is off the table. You think you just said it a second ago There's this idea that divorce should never be a consideration, but I'll say in the 21st century, divorce is always on the table. It is always something that is available to women, and it's always something that's going to say, is he not the one, is he the best I can do?

And if that answer is no, there's always that option for her. For men, it's cheaper to keep her most of the time. It's cheaper to keep her because they don't want to go through all of the rigour morale involved with separating and getting out of that. So those are things that I think every guy when they're saying, oh, I think I want to get married, I want to have kids, I want to go forward. Those are questions that you have to ask yourself and ask them from an educated perspective.

So listen, for the listener, that's listening to this. Here's one thing I do want to say before we wrap up, is many times I see guys and gals who hear a message and they immediately make an emotional decision. So many, they call their husband and say, they don't want to be done. Call their wives, they love each other, they love each other. Let's get married. Listen, this, guys, this is just a conversation that we could have gone five more hours. This isn't a conversation for you to all of us

and make a life-changing decision. You go get divorced, get married, or get somebody knocked up, not at all. This is some extreme ton of processing going on that we spoke openly and everybody gave different scenarios. You got a guy here that's been married for 25 years in July whose daughter turned 23 and he's given his perspective. I'm married for 12 years with four kids and I'm

a different story and then you got a guy that's a single 0.13% one in a thousand type of guy who's 40, 39 to 40 years old and he's single and he's thinking about whether he should get married or not. Everybody has a different life, everybody have a different situation, they're dealing with no two stories are the same, you just gotta make sure when you're making a bigger decisions in life, you don't jump to conclusion emotionally, just kind of take your time a little bit more before you get too crazy. Be rational. Be reasonable. Be reasonable before a moment. Be reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment.

Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment.

Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment.

Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. Reasonable before a moment. You guys got, look at one kid, are you guys trying four or two? I've been trying for five years. And you could tell he felt the pain, right? That's an emotional thing. And I said, listen bro, there's certain things I have no control of. I rely on a man upstairs. I try to do whatever I can to lead what I can control.

The stuff I cannot control, I'm not going to do it. I can't read her mind. I can't read. Fuge, I can't do any of that stuff. The more you try to do everything right, you're going to break shit. So some things got to be left to the man opposite, some things you got to do under the rest see how things turn out. What do you say that God is the third person in your marriage?

In ours? Absolutely. I told a story like 12 podcasts ago. I'm dating a girl, her and I love each other. We enjoy each other's company. I get to a point that I want to get married. I said, listen, I don't know if I know what it is to be married. I think we need to go find a church. I'm an atheist at the time. I'm telling you, run, I'm an atheist at the time. I don't believe in God. My life has never given me a single example to believe in God.

It's given me a thousand examples to not believe that there's a God. So I don't want to go through this mess and I told her I said I want us to go to church. She says, what are you talking about? I'm not going to church. Are you becoming religious? I said, I'm the last guy who you would call religious. But if we want to get married, I do want to get married. If you want to get married, I want to get married. I think we got to figure out a way to follow a manual. Let's pick a manual. So are we going to pick the Scientology manual? Are we going to pick the Christianity manual? Are we going pick the Scientology Manual? Are we gonna pick the Christianity Manual? Are we gonna pick the Judaism? Are we gonna pick the LDS?

What's the Constitution of your Emanuel? Let's pick a manual and go find the best manual that we, we went to church one time and I came out of a salicy, why don't we try to go one month without sex? What are you talking about? Let's go one month without sex. And it was the most awkward month.

And the reason why I say let's go one month without sex is just to see what do we talk about outside without sex. And it was the most awkward month. And the reason why I said, let's go one month without sex is just to see what do we talk about outside of sex. What commonalities do we talk about outside of sex? I gotta tell you, it was confusing for both of us. Guess what happened a month later? Relationship ended. You know what's crazy? She's happily married.

Got a couple kids. I'm happily married. I got four kids. But I needed the man upstairs because I buy myself. You know, sometimes you need that person to be in your life. You know, when we sit down, we pray with our kids in certain situations that we have no concern. Daddy, what do I do? I said, buddy, your daddy doesn't have all the answers. There's certain things that we've got to pray about. And those things, your mommy and daddy cannot help you out with. So,

anyways, I don't want to make the say spiritual so let's just end with all holding Yeah, yeah, I haven't even thought it so anyways folks this week last week did four podcasts and This week we're only doing one podcast. I think next week we're back to two or three podcasts again Actually, I'm traveling again next week, but we have John Perkins on Tuesday. Oh John Perkins economic statement. Oh he's hot. You know who he is John Perkins. Yeah. That's the one that goes to countries negotiates with the prime ministers and says if you don't do it we're either going to take you out or we're going to ruin your economy. Pretty re and he did that for living for like a long time. Yeah. We have some surprise guests that's coming up by the way that we can release you. We got some. We have some surprises but we

got Jason Miller from Getter on Thursday Oh, that's gonna be interesting. Okay, very cool. Okay, uh, Gank and Roller will be here back with us on Thursday on the Sawas cast with some ladies. Absolutely. We're gonna put the link below the rational male 5,000 plus reviews on Amazon. Go order the book. Let's put the link both on the chat box as well as the kind of description and having said their roll-out. Thanks for coming out. This was great.

Appreciate you. Take care guys. Have a great week. Bye-bye.