PBD Podcast - Trump & Bukele BLAST CNN's Kaitlan Collins w/ Eric Bolling & Chris Cuomo | PBD Podcast | Ep. 577

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Patrick Bet-David, Tom Ellsworth, and Vincent Oshana are joined by Eric Bolling and Chris Cuomo as they dive into Donald Trump’s meeting with El Salvador’s President Nayib Bukele, behind-the-scenes details of U.S.-Iran nuclear negotiations, Kristi Noem's push for Real ID compliance, and Bill Maher’s surprising revelations about his private conversation with Trump. ------🎙️ PBD LIVE - THURSDAY, APRIL 17th @ THE BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: https://bit.ly/3XWDYSD👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l⁠⁠📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠📰 VTNEWS.AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!ABOUT US:Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Did you ever think you would make it? I feel I'm supposed to take sweet victory Know this life meant for me Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright That day, my handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here You are a 101? My son drives that, bro

I think I've ever said this before Okay, so Rob, what are we? Episode 577. We have Eric Boling and we have Chris Cuomo in the house today. How you guys doing? Good. Doing great. Yes? Thanks for having me.

Rebirth and renewal? Rebirth and renewal, that's right. Easter's coming. Did you get in the back or no? Yes. Yes. Couple days away. When's the last time you guys did something together?

Has it been a minute? Long time, but a big fan. Really? Yeah, good to see him. Good to see him. But you've done things together in the past? No, we were on, competing places, different places, but I always watched what he was doing,

trying to figure out why he was beating me. Well, I was at Fox, all things being equal, I mean, you're like the most rational lefty at the time, kind of centrist now, but we came a long way. I guess that's a compliment, most rational lefty. I take what I can get when I come here. I mean, there's not a lot of common sense on the left, and you had some, which is ahead of the game.

You know what, Rob? I say we make a shirt, say I'm an ex-rational lefty and we send the shirt to Chris. Please, I'm sure Chris will wear it. He's going to replace it with a free agent. I think the shirt should say left and right, you cross it out and it says reasonable. I think that that's the shirt. That's modern day today.

That's the shirt. Anyway, okay, so we got a lot of things to reason with. Maybe a little bit of debate will happen today, but a lot of weird things are going on right now. A lot of stories going on right now. Obviously, Bukele was from El Salvador, was at the White House, and it was interesting when they were both talking to the media, and there was a lot of back and forth on what to do with the wrongly deported man who is alive in El Salvador prison, and he asks him,

he says, what do you want me to do with this guy? Do you want me to send him over here to you? No, we're not going to be doing that. You have to see the exchange. It's very entertaining and interesting. At the same time, Iran says any future U.S. sanctions relief must be guaranteed. Iran and U.S. envoys hold first negotiation over Tehran's nuclear program and talk face to face.

There's a percentage of numbers they're looking at with the nuclear levels. Were Iran's at where they would like them to be at with the nuclear levels were Iran's at where they would like them to be at the 3.67 percent they haven't met that and there's a lot of different speculation on what's going on there we'll talk about that Trump's hex it promises record one trillion dollar Pentagon budget and a market kind of like that okay because it was 180 billion dollars above what it was last year what Tom just told me right now and you know in a way, market liked seeing that. Trump has answered nearly 20 times more press

questions at three cabinet meetings than Biden ever did. A report comes out yelling, says bringing the manufacturing back is a pipe dream. I don't understand the rationale for the tariffs. And she said a few other things as well. Trump exempt phones, computers, chips from new tariffs and Yellen says, treasuries show U.S. confidence lost, not dysfunction. And then when it comes down to Panama, Panama opposition party accuses U.S. of camouflage, invasion and Italian tycoon emerge as a lead investor for CK Hutchinson's port. It's a kind of weird thing. Those are two ports we want over here to be in the States, but we'll see what will happen

there. We've got a couple stories I'll come to both of you guys with having to do with CNN and Newsmax, but we'll cover that here in a few minutes. Kristi Noem urges people to get real IDs, keep our country safe. What is this real IDs? Are we going back to what we never thought we were going to get to? And we'll talk about a special moment that we had yesterday in the podcast prep meeting when Brandon's like, I would never do something like this, Rob.

Tell me that wasn't the best moment, right? And I'm sure he's watching this. Pennsylvania arson suspect planned to beat governor with a hammer. And then Ray Dalio and Jamie Dimon both had something to say. Ray Dalio said, I'm both had something to say. Ray Dalio said, I'm worried about something worse than a recession. Jamie Dimon makes apocalyptic prediction. And then Hesset says, 100% not expecting US recession. We'll see who's right. Fed prepares two trillion dollar bailout as hedge fund trade implodes. And then crypto czar David

Sachs gets into a cat fight with Larry Summers. I don't know if it's a catfight or not. That's the word they use here, but you got to see it. It's entertaining. And then Bill Maher goes and spends time with Trump after the conversation he had with you. That was very interesting. It almost flipped. You started interviewing him and you know, Kid Rock himself, Dana White, Chuck Lubella was also there at the meeting.

And Bill Maher came out and gave a, Rob, see if you can get a shorter version of it, because it's 12 minutes, maybe get a shorter version of what it is that we can cover. And then something happened with Netanyahu, pushes back on anti-Israel trends in meetings with podcasters. Something happened with Tim Pool, that there's a lot of discussion with him having a meeting that maybe wasn't disclosed. I don't know what it's all about. Well, we'll discuss it here as well.

And then we've got a few other things. Trump administration freezes more than $2.2 billion after Harvard, rejects its demand, and then the Frisco stabbing suspect, Carmelo Anthony, released after bond lowered to $250,000. Vinny's got some thoughts on that. And then Steve Bannon ignites new mega civil war as he turns on cabinet members. Maybe Eric's got an opinion on that. Who knows? We'll see.

Trump swipes at CNN's Caitlin Collins and brutal exchange and we got a few other things here. But let me give you guys some good news on what's going on. Here's the good news. A lot of you have been asking about the cigar lounge and you want to come to it and we've been having back to back to back. This last Friday was the biggest event we ever had at the cigar lounge which was fantastic. However, grand opening is this Thursday night.

This Thursday night. And this is what we're doing. Thursday, we're not doing a podcast in the morning. Thursday, we're doing a live podcast at our comedy club at Cigar Lounge, 5990 Live. Tickets are being sold. It'll be myself, Vinny, Tom and Adam, live audience. Come on down. Bar opens at 6.

If you get there at 6 p.m., you buy tickets, no matter whether you buy the regular ticket, the general, the premium, or VIP. If you get the ticket and you're there early, we're going to give private tours of the cigar lounge and then bring you back in the room and the podcast will start at 7 p.m. It's going to be a skeptic. I mean, if you've been to it before, it's a spectacle. It's incredible. The energy, the vibe, the announcements, different things that we do and a lot of people networking

together. But that's the QR code. The website, Rob, if we can give them the website so some of the folks on Spotify can go to it as well. I believe it's BoardroomCigarLounge.com. Go a little bit lower so it gives the details. You'll get the tickets, so go lower, Rob, lower, lower for the tickets. There's general premium VIP, 100, 250, 500.

VIP, you get a chance to actually go afterwards to the cigar lounge and we'll be with you guys and we're doing it Thursday instead of Friday because Friday is Good Friday, so Thursday we'll celebrate it together. Come on down, bring a friend, network, join the rest of us. We'll have a good time. If you've been to it before, typically the people that have been to it before, they know VIPs sell out immediately. This year we have fewer VIPs because Platinum members get first on those seats.

So if you want to have a VIP seat, hurry up and place your order and we'll see you guys Thursday night. Okay, let's get right into it. Stories, tariffs is the first one I want to get into. Eric, your background for some of the audience that don't know. Your background is actually finance before you got into TV. If you don't mind for some audience that don't know, your background is actually finance before you got into TV. If you don't mind, for some folks that don't know, maybe take a minute or two and give

a little bit about your background in finance. Sure. I was a professional baseball player. I blew my rotator cuff out and had nowhere to go, nothing to do. I ended up in New York on Wall Street and started on the New York Mercantile Exchange trading energy futures. And I spent 12 years there. I got to the board room. I became a board member, brought the exchange public. The first major financial certainly exchange that went

public on my push and I spent 15 years total on Wall Street and I've never left it. I continue to trade oil, I trade gold, silver, agricultural commodities, but I'm an active stock trader as well. And so I'm in and out of this and tariffs, honestly, Patrick, is, I just don't get it. I'm an original MAGA, I'm an OG MAGA, sorry Chris. I know you're not gonna love this, but one of the original Trump supporters,

one of the original Trump supporters, one of the original Steve Bannon supporters, because back in the day when Bannon and Andrew Breitbart were developing America First, I followed them. And they were great. And they brought President Trump to the presidency the first time. So the original MAGA supporter,

I do not get this idea of applying tariffs on the whole world. We are the biggest consumer on the planet. We have a lot of ways of exerting pressure on China to lower their tariffs and others Brazil. One of them would be use our massive oil infrastructure. I mean, Trump loves to drill oil. If we drilled a ton more oil, if we put liquefied natural gas, which we can now do to the point where we satisfy all of our domestic demand, the excess demand, we could offer to China and say, look, you want to make a deal, lower your tariffs.

We will sell you LNG at market price without a tariff. You want to keep your tariffs? We'll jack it up. China needs the oil. They need that. They're desperately seeking oil. That's why they have the partnership with Russia. Point is, I've done this for a really, really long time.

It's the one area I just can't get behind. Free marketeer here and anytime government gets involved in anything in the markets, they pretty much screw it up. Okay, so let's start off with the tariff topic. I like that. So, Trump exempts phones, computers, and chips from new tariffs. Rob, if you want to off with the tariff topic. I like that so Trump exempts phones computers and chips from new tariffs Rob if you want to pull up the clip on that Here's President Trump talking about what they're doing with phones computers and chips go for it

Product exemptions which specific products are you considering and how long is short-lived these months? I'm looking at something to help some of the car companies where they're switching to parts that were made in Canada, Mexico, and other places, and they need a little bit of time because they're going to make them here, but they need a little bit of time. So I'm talking about things like that. What about any Apple products, other cell phones?

Look, I'm a very flexible person. I don't change my mind, but I'm flexible. And you have to be, you just can't have a wall and you'll only go, no, sometimes you have to go around it, under it or above it. There'll be maybe things coming up. I speak to Tim Cook, I helped Tim Cook recently in that whole business.

I'm not, I don't wanna hurt anybody, but the end result is we're going to get to the position of greatness for our country. We're the greatest economic power in the world if we're smart. If we're not smart, we're going to hurt our country very badly. So the latest number, Rob, if you can verify this, I think it's US 145% tar tariff on China China's a hundred twenty five percent tariff on us, okay It doesn't look like it's slowing down she just went to Vietnam Vietnam was the first person that we said we're gonna Lift the tariff so he's going to his neighbors to say hey don't forget

We have a great relationship together the whole concept of we'll build this stuff here We'll say made in China, but we'll put made in Vietnam. We're still gonna keep that agreement Let's not forget some of the stuff that we have going on here. But you're not liking the position they're taking with tariffs. Why is that? Because again, the government getting involved in anything, they screw everything up. Price controls screw up supply and demand. Just let supply and demand find the right one.

Originally they launched it as we're going to put an equivocal tariff on any certain country, China, Brazil, Germany, whatever you're charging us with. Reciprocal. Reciprocal. Problem is they didn't do that. What they did was they took the trade in balance with the country, for example, China, $130 billion trade in balance. That's what they sell us more than we sell them.

And they divided that number by the total export China into America, which is fine, but it's it's an equation. It has nothing to do with their tariff structure at all. It's a trade imbalance number. And they came up with like I think 64% and they said, oh, we're gonna do 32. They did that with every single country in the world. Had nothing to do with the actual tariffs. So they sold it as we're gonna raise our tariffs reciprocally and when you lower country A, B or C we will lower with you which is great that's fine you want to play that game wonderful. Then it became something different then it became we're doing this to everyone and now we have 15 countries who want to negotiate now we

have 150 countries that want to negotiate. Now we have 150 countries that want to negotiate. And it became more about the world leaders coming to the Trump administration and begging for some relief, which isn't the real nature of it. You want to play the tariff game, play it where the purpose is to lower tariffs completely both directions. And I think they lost that script for a while. They're trying to get it back now. And then this whole idea of choosing certain industries to exempt from tariffs, not necessarily

countries, but industries, chips, cell phones, computers. It just don't like, I'm a free market person, Patrick. The free market is what made this country number one, the greatest country on the planet, bar none, because we had the most free business environment markets and the tariff disrupts that whole apple. Tom, your thoughts on this. Well, Trump said, I want to leverage, I want to leverage things to get the world to come to the table.

And so, okay, we're using tariffs. And I'm on board with that. But then the calculation of how you get them to the world I thought that they they kind of lost the headline there because it's like wait a minute how are you to your point? How are you going to yeah? How are you calculating to get them to the table you want to give them to the table and say hey look You got two things here one of them is tariffs And you know you're not really bad on tariffs Eric

But you know what I know you're cheating and I know you get intellectual property things going on and I know you've got some relabeling on country of origin And that's annoying so let's fix that so maybe the tariff gets them to the table Maybe leverage gets them to the table so you can talk about all these other things You know the the biggest one to deal with is China the biggest one to deal with but I don't mean the rub But they didn't use a tariff and add on difficulty getting into your market or back and forth. They didn't use that. They literally took the trade imbalance of country A,

B or C, and they divided it by the exports. I agree. I was confused by the calculation, but I- Which is a non-formula. It is a formula that does not exist. It's a formula, but it's not what they sold us. It's not what they said is going to be a tariff. We'll raise to you, oh, and they said we're going to be lenient and only do half.

But the number they are using is the tariff that we're being charged and nothing to do with the tariff. And again, I'm putting this on Howard Lutnick because this is Howard Lutnick's baby here and I've known that guy for 30 years. I Wouldn't trust him to you know park my car over that Lutnick's a problem only the best. Tell me why tell me only the best. Oh, you want me to tell you why? Yeah You're Trump brings in only the best though. What? Only the best again. So I was out with our Riley and he said y'all bowling or you're a magus

Psychofan he can do no wrong. Is there anyone in this administration? He made us I think he made a mistake with lotnick I just I believe you do Chris you and I were in New York when the World Trade Center came down Oh boy, Howard lotnick was CEO of canterfish jail. Howard was Wasn't at the World Trade Center the day it came down, because he was taking his kid to school. His brother dies, 115 of his employees die. The families of his employees didn't have money. They didn't have health care. They had to sue Howard Lotnick to get health care. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, this is out there.

It's a bad history. But it's 25 years ago and people are like, oh, Howard Lutnick. They don't remember. Since then, my first experience with Howard Lutnick, because I was trading oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange, I was on the board. We were huge. We were growing. We were the premier oil trading platform in the world.

For every single barrel of oil it was price was discovered on the New York Merc and it still is. I was a board member there Howard calls it from Howard from a canner before the World Trade Center comes down he says I'm gonna put you guys out of business I'm developing an oil contract that is going to bury the New York Merc IntelliShane so I went over there with a couple of other board members to have a nice conversation with them to see if there's a way we could all work together to discover prices for oil.

The more price discovery, the more people involved, the better. He just literally looked at us and, I'm gonna develop the contract, putting you guys out of business. Make a long story short, exchange is still here, so you know, it's a $150 billion entity

and Howard's making tariff. Why do you think he is though? Why do you think he is? So if for everybody they have a sword to die on, right? If we're talking about specific to tariffs, why do you think that's a lot Nick sword to die on? Well, I think it's his, he sold it as his expertise. I mean, he came in as the commerce secretary and he had an idea.

And Trump liked the idea. But the problem is that the idea of raising your own tariffs to reduce global tariffs on incoming imports, their exports, our imports, is a nice idea. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't, I don't know. Maybe it throws people, the world into a global recession. I'm not sure. But he sold it and Trump kind of liked the idea and then it got away.

It became something different. I think it'll get back to what the original was. So by the way, I wanna make sure we're fair here. Rob, can you pull up what happened with Lutnik because I don't know the whole thing. They got a chunk of money as a settlement, right? As a lot of the people who were affected did. The initial criticism was that Lutnick had taken a lot of the money and it looked like

it was going to go his way, not the family's way. Over time, he did more and more for the families. They got insurance, they got settlements. But it was a bad look early on. Is this about him committing a crime? No. Is it about him committing a crime? No. Is it about him screwing them, period? No, no, I'm not suggesting he committed a crime.

I want to make sure it's true because I'm reading this here. But there was bad blood early on. He promised to give 25% of Cantor's future profits to the families, the 658 employees who died. And over the years, he gave more than $180 million distributed to those families. He's also created a relief fund offering healthcare and financial support to those left behind. And Fitzgerald was one of the few companies who stayed in business after losing two-thirds of his staff.

So he ended up making it right afterwards with some of the stuff. So I want to make sure we put that up. It depends who you ask, but I get that. It wound up better than it started, put it that way. But Eric is not wrong to say that the impression of him was very negative. Fair enough. I wasn't there. I'm not in the know of exactly what happened. If somebody is more interested in it, they can look into it and respond to it here.

But let's go to tariffs. So Eric, Chris, it seems, are you guys both on the same page on the tariff position with what he's taking? Would you say you're relatively on the same page? I'll add one piece. Please. Okay. Which is first, this is as nice an assessment as Trump is

going to get of this, right? If this had been Biden who had done this, you know, everybody's head would be on fire in this room right now. The ambition is a good ambition. The mistake the left is making is hating the ambition, helping the American worker having new economy jobs here that pay more, bringing things back that we need to make here so that people can't hold us hostage like happened in the beginning of the pandemic when we didn't have any of the PPE that

we needed. I think that's all good and I think it's wrong to criticize it just because Trump is doing it. That's why I talk about the president and the administration a lot. I try to keep Trump's name out of it so people on the left can keep their head straight about the idea. So I respect the ambition. You know the expression, we all know it. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

And what they're doing here is a ready, shoot, aim situation. That's why he has to keep backing off. I have a little bit of a suspicion about why he's helping Cook. Cook gave him a ton of money. Why he's helping the car companies that he is, they gave him a ton of money. I don't think he should play favorites. How he wants to do this, Eric is right to question.

And you're hearing it, it's not unusual criticism. But the ambition is a good one. I'm fine with what he wants to do. The question is, is this the way to get it done? It's very hard to find anybody who doesn't work for him who says yes. Can I, can I, can we have a friendly banter here on this topic? Let's just kind of go through some of the ideas here. So what is the alternative?

If they don't do it this way and we just sit there and you're like, look, just use the oil reserves. We have plenty of oil. We're going to be okay. Use that as the, you know, method of getting back and, you know, just use the oil reserves. We have plenty of oil. We're going to be okay. Use that as the method of getting back. China needs our oil. Don't take this approach. Fair.

If we go with that approach, you're assuming a similar type of a leader is going to get elected after him. What if he's not? What if it's going to be a different kind of a president that takes a different approach that doesn't believe in drill baby drill? So okay, let's go with tariffs. If we keep it the way it is, from 1971 when we kind of opened it up and they started doing business to 2001 when World Trade Organization, they joined it and they kind of started doing more business, how much has China grown compared to us?

What happened to us? How many jobs did we give away? It almost sounds like, Eric, what you're saying is similar to what Yellen is saying. Yellen said, bringing manufacturing back is a pipe dream. I don't understand the rationale for tariffs. You sound like Janet, if that's your position, and you can disagree with it, Rob, if you want to play this clip. This is Janet Yellen, former Treasury Secretary.

Go ahead, Rob. Perhaps it's to bring back American manufacturing, but I really think that's a pipe dream and not something that is likely to be accomplished. And we could even raise questions about whether or not, in a broad-based way, that's a desirable goal. Okay, so this is traditional way of thinking establishment saying this is a pipe dream. What are your thoughts on that? I think Janet Yellen should never been Treasury Secretary.

I think she's ridiculous. She's the one who said inflation was transitory when it was clearly not transitory for the better part of four years of Joe Biden's presidency. It was directly tied to their policy. I just happened to also question whether or not raising tariffs will actually create American jobs and what kind of American jobs are we going to create here if we do this and we're gonna clearly product prices are gonna go up by if all things stay the same tariffs stay high with China and others product prices will go up

globally hopefully there's enough demand to support the higher price maybe there is I believe there's a lot of support the higher price. Maybe there is. I believe there's a lot of demand in the US economy right now, but you have to worry about China. China right now is on that precipice of is there enough demand to keep them paying for their growth? I'm not sure. So that's the risk.

And the payoff would be, Patrick, is Tim Cook says, I'll give a half a trillion dollars. We're going to build $500 billion worth of manufacturing in America. Lutnick said, okay, we're gonna have Americans screwing those little screws in iPhones. No, that's not how it happens. They come back and if they do spend money to build a manufacturing plant here, which would be great,

economic activity is good, they'll all be robotics. Every single iPhone will be built with robotics. The only reason why it's not happening now is because it's too expensive to build a new manufacturing plant with the robotics, but if you're gonna make it expensive to import, then you'll do it here and there won't be more Americans working in manufacturing. There'll be more manufacturing, but not more Americans manufacturing products and stuff. Everything's going robotic. But that's gonna happen no matter what that's nice like saying

Hey went back in the days in the 1900s You know 41% of people worked in farms and then all of a sudden a tractor and fertilizer Eliminated those jobs and they're like what the hell do I do and everybody was afraid but we adjust that we pivoted to a different place That's the key. Yeah, the key is the adjustment. That's why Trump shouldn't liken this to the Gilded Age. Okay, I'm sure we all saw what was in the Woodward book where Gary Cohn was trying to explain to the then president in the first term, we don't want to go back to the Gilded Age. Americans don't want that kind of job. We can do better than that.

And Trump, for whatever reason, was fixated on that being America's best time, which is hard to justify economically. You are right to characterize what Lutnick said the way you are because his quote was taken out of context. He gave a nod that we're not going to be turning screws. Those will be robotic jobs. But why? China underwrites the cost of those factories in their country.

So you say you want to start one, we come in with value-tainment, we want to do it as a consortium, China underwrites it. That's what the United States has to do. So it's not just starting with tariffs, it's not going to get you where you want to be. The ambition is fine. But what I don't like is China is outplaying us right now in this moment.

They see an opportunity. We overreached. We pissed everybody off. Everybody wants to meet with China all of a sudden, which did not happen before. Who's everybody? Japan, South Korea, the EU. They're taking meetings. Vietnam didn't just talk to Xi. They signed over a dozen new trade deals in that meeting so China isn't reciprocal tariffing us. What are they doing? Restricting meaning what they're not going to punish their consumers to the extent that they have a robust base there They're just not allowing us access to these things They are being very savvy to so they're very they definitely need us

They can play with the with Vietnam and whomever else they want to play with all they want But what do we maybe net-net 20% of their business? 20% with 14% of exports, maybe 16? We're probably higher than that number and probably higher on a profitability basis too. Because not only we don't just buy the little, you know, the Sharpies, we buy iPhones. Expensive, so there's a lot more profit margin in this stuff we buy. They can't live without, they can't, Chris they are on, they're on a path to not be able to actually go into more than a recession maybe even a depression. They can't keep up. I mean they've grown, they had massive growth,

their growth has almost stopped. But they have some structural advantages that Trump doesn't have to worry about. Yeah in labor. The people don't matter. In labor. Politicians don't matter. Labor costs. The people don't matter. In labor. Politicians don't matter. Labor costs. The currency doesn't matter. You know, they have control over everything. But let me ask you a question though.

Okay, everything you're saying there, this is kind of how I process it. The problem with the U.S. politics, here's a problem that I see, is the leverage he has is what? When is his next election? She? Never. That's the point. Yeah.

So the problem we have with America is what? When is our next election? Really? Like in 16 months? Yeah, midterms. Okay, so what happens if there's a bloodbath and then, hey, look what's going on. So then you've got a pivot and oh my God. So the challenge I have is the following.

If we don't do something now and the the next president doesn't, and the next president keeps, what's the word? Kicking the can down the road. Kicking, hey, you know, let's just get, and then eventually all of a sudden you're going to wake up one day and they're going to be like, hey, guess what? We got you. Now we have you. So because we don't want to deal with a little bit of pain today, we're like, no, no, no.

How do they have us? And the portrayal is that because we have such a trade, massive trade imbalance, we're at some sort of- Pull up numbers, Rob. They're there. I agree with you. Pull up numbers. We have a trillion dollar trade.

Tariffs aren't the reason for the imbalance. Pull up the numbers. Where was China? Where did China rank in GDP in 1971? Go in 1971, what was China? So where did they have us? China was ranked what? China is ranked number eight, it comes out 2.7 million in the 1970s, suggesting a similar

rank 71. Okay, then go to where they were in 2001, pre-WTO. And WTO, they were ranked what? Third, they jumped up. Okay, go to 2000 instead of 2001. Go to 2000. 2000, they're still third? Sixth.

Fourth, sixth. So they go from sixth, so boom, top ten, sixth, WTO, third, where are they today? Go to where they are today. Second. Okay, so what are the projection of where they're going to be by 2030? 2035? 2040? So we're supposed to sit here and just kind of came and say a new regime's in town? It's not about the what, it's about the how. The argument you're having is about, it's not that we got to do something about China, we have to figure out how to

protect ourselves and advance ourselves. I think people can get on the same page with that, or they should. It's the how. The trade deficit is not because of tariffs. In fact, when they got into the WTO, what did they have to do to get into it? Lower their tariffs. So as the trade deficit was growing,

they were actually lowering tariffs. So the point is, and what pisses off people like Eric, who understand tariffs, is it's not the right mechanism. Yeah, I have a hard time with that, Chris. Let me put it to you how I look at it. So you said the way they could get WTO was what? To lower their tariffs?

They lowered their tariffs when they got it. So let me ask you a question. And for years after that. So let me ask you a question. How much has China shown a track record of falling rules and guidelines and things that ask for agreements to do? Zero. They cheat.

They steal our stuff. They may be helping right now in the Ukraine war by giving Russia manpower. So let me get this straight. They have a track record of agreeing on certain terms and not following through on the terms and you want us to take the negotiation seriously and try to play nice with these guys? It's not like you're dealing with somebody, when you deal with somebody who do business, you have a phone call. You guys have been in the entertainment business for a while.

You know who to call, whatever they say, it's going to get done. And I guarantee you, both of you guys have a name that no matter what they say, you better verify it 17 times because you know nothing that person ever said was real. I just don't know that tariffs is the right punch to throw to knock them out. What's the alternative though? What's the alternative? That's the discussion I have. No, but so I can give you an alternative. Let's hear it. Open up our markets. Open. Trump loves to drill for oil. If we became a global major exporter of oil, I mean, that's a term though. So China goes to number one, Patrick. Let's say they take over the United States in two, three, five years, whatever.

Do it per capita now. They have five times our population. But they also don't care about how we're about that. No, but they went from a third world country to a developed nation. They're not wired like us. My point is, we get hung up, are we first or second? Are we the biggest military? The second biggest military. My point is we're the most powerful country.

It doesn't matter if China has a bigger GDP than the United States. We'll still be a heck of a lot more powerful than they will. They would love to have what we have. Based on what though? Based on what? Buying power. We have a consumer that is the strongest consumer on the planet. Our economy is the strongest economy on the planet. And let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Per capita GDP. If this continues, if this continues, who's a slave to who? They can't, we can never be a slave to them. They buy, we buy their shit, we sell them stuff, we pay them, they can't stop. And they have a lot of our debt if they put us into it into a depression And we default on the trillions of dollars of our debt that they hold they don't want to do that either Yeah, but what's the book? Okay? So here's the more the more I'm listening to what we're saying

The more I processing it as let's find a way to make it good now. Yes. Okay, it's kind of like although I don't believe anybody is going to run away from something that's working find a way to make it good now. Yes. Okay. It's kind of like… Although I don't believe anybody is going to run away from something that's working. You know, the Democrats criticized Trump's tariffs on China in the first term. Biden left them in. People don't run away from success. No, what I'm saying to you is, if we have a chance to have this tough conversation now, I have a feeling if we don't do it now, this may be the last chance ever to have it and why.

Let me explain why. Here's what I mean by why. When's the last time we had a guy like Trump as a president? Never. Four years ago. Exactly. Meaning himself. That's what he's saying.

So was Reagan like a Trump? No. Was Reagan more willing? If you read the Jim Baker book and you read about Reagan, Reagan was actually willing to compromise, right? So Reagan had a different approach that he would still work with the establishment a little bit and kind of be able to make that stuff work. To me, if there is a wild card in this equation of a guy that can, like I was talking to a

couple of NBA guys the other day, with Scottie Pippenen and we're talking about a guy named Zion Williamson. Okay, who's? Exactly, but you know what I said, I said, let me ask you a question Earlier when I asked him about the whole challenge with Miami says everybody leaves Miami. Why is that? He says because of Pat Riley really why because Pat is known for that. He has a reputation He drives people too hard. I said great 30. Thirty minutes later, I say, let me ask you a question. Zion Williamson, if there's a coach or somebody in the NBA that could change him, who would it be? He said, Pat Riley.

I said, wait a minute, you can't say this. He says, I can. I said, what are you doing here? But the point is what? It takes an effing Pat Riley to change certain things. And I think the chances of getting another Trump in 4-8-12-6 I don't know if we're gonna see that. I don't know that you need it. There's a plus minus on how he is. Aggression is good. Trump is aggressive. He is assertive. He sees everything as a

nail and he's a hammer. Okay, but it's still about how good the strategy is and what the mechanism is for change. Too early to tell. Our biggest advantage over China is our alliances. Okay? And that's why people were worried about the soft power. That's why people were worried about how you talk to your allies. When you see the EU saying we're gonna take, not just Spain, right?

We're gonna take meetings with China, that's a middle finger to us. And the reason they're giving a middle finger to us because they wanna give it to Trump because of how he talks about them. Now you can say, yeah, but he's strong. You need your friends to beat China, not just because of the number of human beings, but because of the concentration of power. That's the criticism, is the way you're going about this is not going to get it done.

But what you want to get done is the right thing to go after. Tom, do you have final thoughts? Yeah, I don't know, Chris, about that point on the EU. I mean, the EU paraded Ursula van der Laan, who's president of the EU Commission, the Economic Commission, right? And they paraded her out for the last week. And she said, well, EU likes a good deal, would like a good deal, number one. Number two, she was saying things about about hey, we want to come negotiate this

We believe more moderation because they sent her out with the moderation message so that they can take these populist messages except Italy Forward to their media about oh, you know, we're not gonna be bullied by Trump We're not gonna be like this and everything. Meanwhile, they're coming out being very open about it. Meanwhile, you know, but about what? I don't understand your point. No, she's talking about we want to come negotiate this, this and this.

Right. Right. And so they send out Ursula Vanderland to make those statements. Meanwhile, you know, Macron says, I don't know about this. This guy is such a bully. You see the difference? Yeah, but I'm saying so they say they're gonna meet with China. They shouldn't be saying that They are our friend not China's friend Well, and what's happening right now is a realignment because people are pissed at Trump and that's not necessarily good. Look deeper into it, right? Huge man, your auto industry is big in Europe, okay? So what's happening with why is Renault Nissan like going to EU Commission saying we need to investigate

What's going on in Hungary with BYD? They're building a factory there. They're going to ship the cars over here They're subsidizing it and they're going to screw all of us They're equivalent of you know cost dumping because they're going to subsidize the whole thing. And so I don't see a lot of love there for all of what's going on in the auto industry in Europe. And that's one of the things Ursula Vandeleine was talking about. And I'm no fan of her. But my point was I'm sitting here watching her versus watching prime ministers and things

and presidents and saying, you know, as much as they're pissed at Trump, they're scared to death of what China is doing. And so they're not running over there with open arms. I was on record in the beginning, Chris. I said, look, these tariffs are going to be tactics, not taxes. And I said that many, many times and people clicked on it and said, I think you're crazy. I don't think I'm crazy. I think that's what's happening now. But if you look at the tariff like a medication, you're saying that's the wrong medication to be giving the patient. Okay, you can certainly say that, but you got to do it. You still have to cure the patient now, and I believe

these are tactics, not taxes. Do I think that the calculation was like a wrong way to do it and opened your flanked ups to all kinds of criticism? Yes, but is it still the right thing to do to kind of, you know, hey, this is Holy Week to flip over the tables and say we're going to change this? Yes. Maybe. I think it's too early. Like you said, by the way, guys, this isn't my wheelhouse. It just has the average American looking out. I think it's way too early. China. I don't get listen. We're at war with China. We're not shooting guns. We're not dropping bombs. We're 100% at war with them. And by the way, they've gotten away for the past four years of what? Flying spy balloons for what? Nobody gives a damn.

They bought land by all of our military bases, now I'm from Air Force base, nobody's saying anything. You need something drastic. I think it's a little bit early. Let them cook, let them do his thing. And then at what point, here's my question, at what point do we go, okay, did it work? And we have to shift gears, what, at what point? Because we're saying two years. No, I don't think it's two years, I think it's like, and by the way, if some people are saying

as early as this summer, if the market by summer is choppy, this is not gonna be pretty. Some are saying midterms midterms If it goes like this, I know it's too late You'll get wiped out wiped out so so it could be summer is the latest Some are some but again, this is the part about how things work in negotiation If you read Trump's book of art of the deal the amount of times He was willing to go past the level

of pain that the average negotiator couldn't handle, that's a skill set. I don't know if he's going to practice that here because in that sense, the pain is you. No, no, him, Trump, because it's your deal. But in this sense, the pain is who? The people. So I don't know how he's going to manage that pain because maybe he can handle pain for himself and his employees But maybe the pain when he sees around his people what they're gonna be saying, maybe it's gonna be different I I don't think anyone saw a

10-trillion dollar meltdown in the equity markets, right? I mean the day before they announced we knew the announcement was coming on April 2nd We knew it was coming April 1st. The market was up, flat up a little bit, a 10 trillion, 1600 on a Friday, 2600 on the Monday, 1500 the next day, up a thought. When that happened Trump's smart, he said wait a minute, maybe this isn't the right. We thought it sounded great. And I agree with you that it should have been, let's use this to lower alt- but they didn't realize how much the market

anticipated the downdraft. But why do your guys feel that way in the markets? Okay, like I've done a really weird thing on my show since this happened. Because you risk a global recession, that's why. So guys who are like you, like you you guys I'm having them come on my show now not polished TV people to talk economics. These are guys they're real institutional traders.

They're real economics working as analysts for big places and they're saying look they needed to message this first. You had to tell us what your plan was why you were doing it this way. You had to tell us what your plan was, why you were doing it this way, and you had to hold to it because we're afraid with Trump of uncertainty or what we call chaos in the punditry business. And they didn't do that, and I think they didn't do it because he didn't have a plan.

He had what Tom is talking about, which is a basic feel and a tactic to get it in. And now let's see what happens. And the markets don't like that. And the problem is he's not she. He can't look at the people who don't like what he's doing and saying, but you're gonna stay quiet because I'll kill you.

Trump can't do that. No, he can't. He's gotta be responsive to the criticism. And the problem is when he's responsive to the criticism, it makes it even worse because now it's feeding the sense of uncertainty. Well, what's he going to change next? Well, which is this going to happen?

Are these going to happen or not? How do I plan? Where do I put my money? That's what you're seeing happen. Yeah. Well, I mean, this leads to story of Ray Dalio and Jamie Dimon. Ray Dalio says, I'm worried about something worse than a recession. Okay, Rob, if you want to play this clip and then we'll go to Jamie right afterwards.

Here's Ray Dalio. I think that right now we are At a decision-making point and very close to a recession and i'm worried about something worse than a recession If this isn't handled well a recession is two negative quarters of gdp and whether it goes slightly there. We always have those things We have something that's much more profound. We have a breaking down of the monetary order. We are going to change the monetary order because we cannot spend the amounts of money so we have that problem.

And when we talk about the dollar and we talk about tariffs, we have that. We are having profound changes in our domestic order, how ruling is existing, and we're having profound changes in the world order. Such times are very much like the 1930s. I've studied history and this repeats over and over again. So if you take tariffs, if you take debt, if you take the rising power challenging the existing power, if you take those factors and look at the fact factors That those changes in the orders the systems are very very disruptive. Okay, how that's handled So that's Ray Dalio. So he's saying something worse than the recession, which is what depression, right? Okay, so this is Jamie Dimon. Jamie Dimon is taking a different position. He's on Fox Business. Go ahead Rob

Okay, so this is Jamie Dimon. Jamie Dimon is taking a different position. He's on Fox Business. Go ahead, Rob. My final question for you, after all of these incredible years of success and leadership in this great nation and the world, what tips do you wanna give the younger generation who is coming up and watching you

and wanting to learn how you achieved all of this? Give us some advice. So, work hard, learn, learn, learn, read everybody. Don't get into the echo system of Democrats, Republicans. He gets to the recession clip in this clip, but it's very brief. Okay, go ahead. Conservative, progressive, read everybody.

Learn, learn, learn, get to know, learn from everybody else. I've learned a tremendous amount from talking to other people, not just from seeing by myself. So educate yourself. What is it? Learn how to take care of yourself. Come on, James. You don't take care of your mind, your body, your spirit, your soul, your friends, your

family. You're not going to have a great life. And enjoy it. Enjoy it every step of the way. And so have a little heart in humanity. Treat people properly. You know, I grew up, you know, with the way you treat people, you treat everyone fair and honest and forthright, whether it's a cab driver or a waiter or a CO.

He does. It's just there's something about this guy that feels like he's always trying to say the right thing at the right time and always trying to seem like he's on the right side of whatever it is. And I feel like, you know, I covered the 2008 Tarp and Talf stuff for ABC News. Okay. And I had worked in mezzanine finance before I got into this and they didn't have a business correspondent at the time. And that guy was always saying what he needed to say for himself in that moment. But he always wanted to make it like he was there for the little guy and for the people.

And I think he's full of shit, that guy. There's something about him that really, like I don't trust that he's coming from a good place, this guy, when he says things. Not that he's not smart, not that he doesn't get it. He just, he's too convenient with what he says. It makes me think that he's not anchored by anything. I actually think he's brilliant

I think he's the smartest man on Wall Street, but I also think he hedges everything. Yeah with We're headed to her. He's been saying we're headed to a recession for the past 20 years. Yeah, and he's gonna be right He's at point right, but as the market goes up and In JP Morgan stock goes up and Jamie Dimon looks smarter and smarter. If it does turn negative, he looks like he called the recession. But even this, bringing our trading partners closer as we build our military. You just check in boxes. Yes, of course you want your trading partners close. Churchill had a great reminder for FDR during World War II when FDR was

vacillating. The only thing worse than fighting against your friends is fighting without them. That's what we're risking right now is going alone and when we're as a coalition with all these other countries we're much more formidable even if we are very strong in our own right. And I don't like two things that are coming our way right now. One, oh turns out we have to spend a lot more money on military to compete with China. No thanks, we did that with the Cold War.

It doesn't work, we don't need to do that. And the other thing we're gonna hear is, you're right about all these concerns about the domestic market. We need those tax cuts right now. I don't wanna see another tax cut for me. That's not gonna help the same people who are gonna get hit by these tariffs if they're in place.

And I feel like both of them are coming. See, now I would say we would agree on tariffs and we'll disagree on tax. That would be the one way to energize the US economy is allowing us to keep more of our money. It's always been a great driver of spending and saving. I think making them permanent. But just target it right target it, right? You call it a middle-class tax cut and they didn't get them I don't think there's a bad target to reduce a tax whether it's corporate tax or individual personal income tax lower level high level

Middle class lower taxes you create economic activity That's fine As long as you cut the sign up not like he did it last time Eric The way he did it last time was screwed up. And they just kept saying they paid for themselves. And the only way you can get to that, as you know, is if you include the pandemic money. And you want to cut taxes, fine. Cut spending. Cut spending.

And go to the DOD and cut spending. We do not need to build up to compete with China. They're not our problem that way. It's not we're going to get a land war in Asia. It's not the Princess Bride. If you can become fully... Listen, oil is the lifeblood of the global economy, period. Whoever has it, does it the best. So drill, maybe drill, lower taxes and you don't have to worry about paying more in your tariffs when you send stuff to China than they send it this way.

The best year of my life is the year I pay the most freaking taxes, okay? Because I made a lot of money right and my point is if we are so strong so powerful our economy's pumping it 30 40 trillion dollars a year GDP okay, so China is doing 42 we have a fifth of their population It's all good. It's not bad lower taxes lower fuel prices And we will compete on a global stage now, but we're missing a piece We're missing the most important piece one of the things I love about pat and What he's doing here is the culture that's an extension of family. Okay, you go see pat with his kids

You know One he's present right and his wife obviously They take education very seriously. Those kids have to nail it. They have to be STEM sensitive. Yeah, you gotta be able to kick the ball and be a good team player. That's what China did.

China invested. They are five to one STEM graduates over us, okay? Per capita, five to one. We're leaving that piece out, okay? You want those jobs, who's gonna do those jobs? We're not stem Activated here in our education see Trump's trying to fix that well is it rid of the Department of Education That's how does that tell the unions and all of a sudden things get better. I look I think again You how do you know that that's what's gonna make it better? Well, that's the theory

I mean the theory is free them up just like the free market, free up education, allow parents to take the money that the public school system is wasting on students and failing miserably at and let them choose where the best schools are. I think you have to do what we don't want to do, which is what other cultures do, which is you have to pick winners and losers. You have to test kids at different points as they're coming up and figure out who has the aptitude and then put them on different courses like you see in other places. And you pay for their education. If you're that smart, Vinny, you're that good,

I'll pay for your education. And you're gonna give it back to me with what you do. We'll figure it out. We are not doing that in this country right now. We are a culture of accommodation right now. Everything's okay. Everything's okay. Everything's okay. You be you.

And it's as big a part as anything we've talked about in the podcast up to this point as to what our concerns are with China. You misgendered me. I'm not you, I'm they, them. So you're correct. You're- I thought you were macho macho.

You're making the case to eliminate teachers unions, Department of Education. No, I'm not. I think that that's- You literally just said that. No I didn't. Based on meritocracy rather than a union mandate. Collective bargaining matters. You know, you go back to the Gilded Age

and you see how workers were doing and what the die rate was and child labor. Unions have a place. No one's dying in factories anymore. The President says that's what we should go back to. No, it's a new golden era. It's not the Gilded Age. The golden era was after World World War two the gilded age, which is fake gold, right? That's the one that he points to look collective bargaining to me. I think is a virtue

Can it go too far? Do you have to regulate it the right way? Of course, but what I'm saying is I don't care about what the mechanism is. I'm talking about the goal You don't have enough smart people with the right kinds of educations in this country. That's all I'm saying. You don't even have enough trade workers in this country. We agree. And we need to foster that. How do you get there is where we disagree. 100%. I don't necessarily disagree. I'm open to it. I think the best idea should win. I don't know what they are. I mean I ask questions for a reason. You know what I mean? Tom, chances of recession. Well, a recession by definition, two quarters, I'm only at like 10, 20%,

but you have to remember where recession is. A recession is the consumer's spending drops, GDP drops two quarters, because people aren't spending. Why are they spending? Because their sentiment went down. Why are their sentiment dead now? Because everybody's telling them it's bad. Why are they spending? Because their sentiment went down. Why are their sentiment dead now? Because everybody's telling them it's bad. Why is everybody telling them it's bad? Because they don't give

enough time for these tactics to be come to fruition to get to the other side of where we're gonna do. You know a recession doesn't mean that the auto industry has been nuked. It just means that all the spending was down for two quarters. Now I think there's a 20% chance that that could happen. That's what I think. But I'll tell you, I'm with Eric on the taxing. Right now we're about to cross, if we haven't crossed already, $1.3 trillion on consumer credit card debt. Records are being set that the consumer shouldn't be setting, you know what I'm talking about. And we have the cumulative effect of inflation, so a tax cut on those people helps moderate that.

And so, and I think that helps them. And I also agree with drill baby drill, because I would go after Anwar, and I would pump the hell out of Anwar, and I would be selling it to people that own our T-bills, and I'd be taking down our long-term debt. And guess what happens? You do that. You would now, you go watch what happens But right now I think there's a 20% chance of a recession by definition not by via the the redefinition They did under Biden where they ignored the fact and and worked around the fact. Well, they took on food and energy Yeah, it's a conveniently removed the two most volatile and spiking. Yeah, that's exactly without my wife

And I the average hey, we have a very young healthy household Sneaky next story El Salvador Rob if you can pull up the clip of El Salvador's Bukele visiting the White House and saying he will not return a man The US mistakenly deported this is from the Reuters go for drop man, the US mistakenly deported. This is is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States. But you could release him inside of the world. Yeah, but I'm not releasing. I mean we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country. We just turned the murder capital of the world into the safest country in the Western Hemisphere

and you want us to go back into releasing criminals so we can go back to being the murder capital of the world into the safest country of the Western hemisphere and you want us to go back into the releasing criminals so we can go back to being the murder capital of the world. Now that's not gonna happen. Well they'd love to have a criminal, you know, released into a... I mean, there's a fascination. They would love it. Listen though, they gave the president that stick. You know, that's a stupid gotcha question that the media has got to get out of the habit of asking, which is just trying to expose some kind of conflict. So the right question is what? This is a much simpler situation than the one we were just talking about. Okay. Now, I don't know why he calls the guy a terrorist. That's not what this is about with this guy. Okay. Well,

Trump labeled anybody that's from a gang that's a terrorist. Well, technically, I mean, if you think about it, Chris, technically I mean if you think about Chris Technically they are they cause terror they kill they sell drugs. They forget to kill women children I listen technically I'm not here. I'm not here to defend gang bangers. I'm with you. That's an easy argument to win All right. What I'm saying is Technically that's not what a terrorist is under our law. You know that they got to be doing what they're doing to advance a political agenda That's why people always get frustrated when we law. You know that. They got to be doing what they're doing to advance a political agenda. That's why people always get frustrated when we wait when a Muslim extremist does something

violent here. But that's not my point. My point is this. This is simple. Okay? It wasn't a mistake. All right? They didn't care about the hearing that he had coming up for his asylum claim.

When this guy has his asylum claim, he is not going to get asylum. He has no legitimate basis for it. Well, I'm afraid they're going to kill me there. No, no, no. It has got to be a specific and articulated threat to you. He should be brought back, give him the hearing so you can prove that you respect due process, and he'll go right back. That's the end of the story.

This is a non, what I call a non-traversy, to go after Trump and he handed them the stick. And that's what's gonna happen. They're gonna get him, they're gonna bring him back. Don't ask El Salvador's president. It's embarrassing for us. He's got nothing to do with it. But apparently, so this guy that, mind you, CNN,

oh, I'm sorry, not CNN, the majority of mainstream media. So this guy, no matter, the government has found out that this guy has not only connections, he's probably in MS-13, and none of us know, but you know what they labeled him? A hardworking father departed in the family torn apart. Maryland man, they call him. Maryland man, yeah, exactly.

Born and raised in El Salvador, and a MS-13 gang member. 100%. Maryland man. Yeah, and mind you, and listen, he goes in, I don't know if we're gonna show up, he goes in on Caitlin Collins and CNN, which I normally would be like, you know, I kinda, you know, take it easy, but enough is enough, and actually, I'm happy that he's doing it. Like, we're talking about, think about this,

how many thousands of people have Homeland Security, Tom Holman, Kristi Noem, gotten the hell out of our country, I haven't heard of one illegal raping or murdering an American, okay, since Trump has been in. It's shocking, all right, it's amazing. So there's one guy, one guy that everybody's up in arms with and they're making him seem just like when Soleimani, when Trump and the first administration killed Soleimani,

you know what they called him in the media? He was a freedom fighter and they killed him. It's absolute Horseshit and CNN should be embarrassed. How many more? BS stories are we gonna have to hear they're worried about one guy one freaking guy who was in a gang and then Miller over here even explains the guy went to court twice. They said he had a deportation order That means you don't belong in here Okay And it's embarrassing bro in front of the freaking president who's saying you want us to ship back a guy

That's probably killed and murdered. Hell. No, it's embarrassed So I have two of the clips that Vinnie had mentioned where Trump calls out Caitlin Collins if you'd like that then I also have Bukele offers the US help to detain criminals Another clip of Bukele praising Trump for the border crisis and asked him why the media won't report on it. And then finally, Stephen Miller debunking the narrative that the Maryland man should not have been deported to El Salvador. Why don't you start off with the Caitlin Collins. Cool. Do you have any questions, please?

Mr. President Trump. Let's not start with the president. Mr. President. It's just so, it's just so. Mr. President. Wrong. So that's the first one. Here's the second one.

He goes back and does this again. Well, the president, Mr. President, you said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed to be returned, that you would abide by that. You said that on Air Force One just a few days ago. And they said that it must be facilitated. Why don't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're keeping criminals out of our country? Why can't you just say that? Why do you go over and over and that's why nobody watches you anymore? You know you have no credibility. Please go ahead.

Can you blame this guy? Could you just really fast and I'm sorry to take more time. Can we just like, he's fed up. How much more crap especially from CNN? How many more mistakes? how many more lies? I had to make a list, Pat. Russia collusion, okay? This is all CNN. Nick Sandman case, lies. Jussie Smollett, hoax, lie. Hunter Biden laptop, COVID lab theory. Joe Rogan on horse dewarmer. Trump's fine people line. January 6th, Kyle Rittenhouse, they lied. Hands up, don't shoot, they lied. The crying border crying border kids photo lie The horse whipping at the border lie the most peaceful riots lie fake covid hospitalization overload stories You guys remember that Brian stealth to different disinformation segments

How much more are they never gonna shift gears like are they never going to stop I get reporting hold people's foot to the fire You are literally in the White House talking about one freaking guy who is an MS-13 Pat you we lived in Cali for how long how? To get into MS-13 is it just you sign up and you join in how evil do you have to be to be in this? Freaking gang yeah, they have a form It just boggles my mind that you're in the White House the guy from El Salvador who had the most dangerous country now He has the most safest and that's what she's worried about, this one freaking guy. Eric, it drives me bananas.

You are 100% on it, which blows me away that she actually even asked that question, Chris. I mean, CNN management must have been like, what the hell is she? She's a double agent because they love her in Trump land. They love her. She's got friends in that administration. She gets access. She gets information. She walks right into that. She does. She walks CNN right into an ambush. I mean, they got smoked she's got friends in that administration. She gets access information to that

She does CNN right into an ambush I mean it was they got smoked see and I got smoke cuz many points out all the things that CNN's lied about and gave Trump the platform to say look at these assholes these were Deporting people who rape our women kill our children or vice versa change and CNN you want them back. That exchange makes Caitlin Collins more popular with the media because she's the new Jim Acosta. At CNN? I gotta think they're gonna be like what the hell did you do that? Ask him a tough question he can't answer not something he's gonna absolutely lambast CNN and you. But Jim Acosta, if you think about it, the fake news was birthed by Jim Acosta who's not even there anymore.

See, Vinny, I have a theory on that. Trump first term didn't have the mandate and the swell and the support he has right now. He's got the American people behind him. He's got people like me, at least, on the magazine. But the first time, they were skeptical. They called him the, you know, he was delusional, he's racist, he's this. And now he's got the American people first time he gave Acosta a platform to to Raise his raise his cue score Acosta's cue score. He's not doing anymore. He's smart. He's leg sweeping these people

I'm I believe Caitlin Collins is probably on her last leg because of that the you know the other the three or four things she's done recently, but certainly if I'm CNN management I go the three or four things she's done recently, but certainly if I'm CNN management, I go, she just walked us into a slam dunk. You can look at the ratings and you'll make your decision. That's what management does. But I'm telling you, within the media culture, going at Trump gets you dap,

and it's gonna help come to you. Going at him wisely, smartly. That was, that was, that was, they alley-ooped. She game an alley-oop to dumb. I'll give you the other side of it. OK, and then feel however you want to feel. He did say, I respect court orders. Don't say that. I respect judges.

OK, nine, nothing. You got to bring the guy back and have that that hearing. Yeah, I'm not going to do it. He put himself in the position to do that. OK, it's nine, nothing. You got to bring them back and give them the hearing. That's due process. The two most important words in the rule, in the law,

do it and then you have high ground. So she's not wrong to say, you said you were gonna do that. It's nine zero, it's your court and you're not doing it. That's not unfair. That's not what she said though, Chris. That's not fair. You asked the question that way. Patrick, you asked Chris what's the right question,

frame it that way and then all of a sudden you and CNN look smart, look holding truth to power. Fair, you want to be just be fair. She says are you going to bring back the Maryland man and she teed him up to hit it right. That's a bullshit way to ask it and the media especially in these settings as we both know know that's a gotcha setting. Nobody's having a real conversation in one of these press scrums. You know, that's why Trump thrives in them because he's a one line. The only one who's done worse in the Oval Office in the last 90, 80 days or whatever

it's been is Zelensky. Kaitlyn Collins is number two to Zelensky. Both got destroyed. Absolutely destroyed. Caitlin Collins is number two to Zelensky both got destroyed absolutely, I I think it it helps her Zelensky that's apples to oranges, but the Look at the end of the day. It doesn't matter. Why am I not covering this in a big way on my show? Because of any point. Okay. I'm not in the business of the defending gangbangers. All right, and Why they do that with him? I don't know You know what? The next one's be, is this Carmelo Anthony case.

That is gonna blow up in this country because it plays on race and perception. And the media is gonna play it one way, the people are gonna scratch their heads. I don't believe that Trump has the country with him, and I don't think this period we're in right now has helped him. But we are very volatile right now,

and people get angry real easy and they get reasonable real slow. And you made a great point, Chris. Look at who the Democrats' heroes are right now. An MS-13 gang member, Luigi Mangione, who shot and killed a father in the middle of the street, Mahmoud Khalil, who's a Palestinian, Hamas propaganda freaking guy,

and then Carmelo Anthony, who stabbed awesome meth cap, and now not only did they take the bail from one million to 250,000, he's home and he's chilling, and you nailed it, Chris. If that was the world's reverse, and it was a white kid stabbing a black kid at a track meet, forget it. That would have been the talk right now,

because there would have been riots in the streets, thousand percent. So it's funny who they're representing. I don't think it's a mistake by CNN. I think it's a playbook. Because when I was sitting there watching this and I got my hackles up and I sat back and I thought for a second and I said,

wait a minute, this feels like Trayvon 2.0. They're trying to get me to believe that this person is who it isn't. And they paraded out the young picture of what looked like a nice kid and it turns out that wasn't the kid that was in front of the cop it was the one that was tatted that had trouble with the law and no one wanted to talk about how did that kid get from that picture of that what looked like it's such a sweet little boy up to this this this guy who had been through

all this stuff and was a much different guy that ended up in a scuffle that got him killed yet they want to gaslight me and get me to believe that the guy was there. And Obama, oh I don't have any sons, but if I had a son I'd probably look like Trey Vaughn. What was that, dude? What was that? Mistake.

And I feel like, yeah. It was a mistake. Talk about walking into a fist. He walked into a fist. And so this gaslighting that's here, and I'll tell you, when Zazz goes to the Howlin' Company conference, he's gonna brag about her.

Oh, she goes up against it, she goes really quick. You should buy CNN, and by the way, she's on a rookie contract, she's really inexpensive, and we got rid of all the other bigger contracts. That's how they're gonna do it. And CNN is on, man, they have not only jumped the shark, they're for sale, and everybody knows they're for sale, which is the part that shocks me they live in the echo chamber they love her inside the echo chamber oh you're our girl you're a tough girl boy look at you inside the echo chamber they love

it but outside you're right and she plays maga by the way because she used to work for the uh what the daily uh tucker yeah she used to work for tucker she's the Daily... Tucker. Yeah, Daily Caller. Yeah, she used to work for Tucker. She's from Alabama. And look, I worked with her. She was a good reporter. She had deep, deep reach into Trump world. I don't know who it is or why it is, but she gets a lot of access from them and a lot of information.

And that was what made her appealing. I like her. I get what she's doing there. I get what the play is. The problem is the ratings. And at the end of the day, you're only as good as your number in that business. People liked me, people didn't like me.

I was number one. I was number one at CNN. Every month I was number one. Yeah, but it's Anderson Cooper's house. True, I'm number one. Yeah, but Jake Tapper is gonna be that guy who does the debates. I'm number one. You know, Jake Tapper is going to be the guy who does the debates. I'm number one.

You know, you are your number in that business and if the numbers stay down, you're going to be gone. It's just how it is. So you're saying she ain't going to win anytime soon. Well, look based on the numbers, she'd be gone yesterday. It's all about what management wants to do. Where is she ranked right now? On CNN? I don't know behind Anderson and sometimes behind Jake who's on at four o'clock in the afternoon. Look they got to figure out their numbers there They're not unique in that position, but they definitely have problems in their primetime lineup and

That's okay business. You know people go up and down. They got to figure it out I think the bigger problem is is that really the amount of viewership she's got? Yeah. 119,000, that's it? Yeah, I'm telling you. There's no one in the world that's it. That's a demo. Yeah, but that's the one that they sell. Right. And look, I'd love to have that number.

Yeah, it's a new station. What is it, 18 to 54? 25 to 54. Now they're selling more often 35 to 54 because the marketplace is being forced to accept that it's really people our age who have most of their disposable income. 430, Bear 330.

I was original gangster on the five, the center seat on the five for six years. We were two to O'Reilly. These numbers, the whole cable news world is shrinking. These numbers are way down from the back. Yeah, there's stratification, and that's okay, because at the end of the day, there's still gonna be a flight to value and curated audiences. My concern about the

culture is we're just addicted to the division. You know, like you and I will both hear things like, Oh, you seem like you know, you're like buddies. Like it was bad enough with Pat and his guys. Now Eric bowling you they we are a culture of division. People don't want to reward cooperation, friendship, amity, disagreement without being disagreeable. They like the sides. Do that. This is interesting. They like the sides. Do you want to bring something up? Go ahead. What do you got?

I think you're clearly the best on News Nation. Clearly. I'm the best sitting next to you right now. News Nation is cast to pick a side. They haven't picked a side. We're news for everyone. I'll get fired if I pick a side. I contend. I will. They'll fire me. That's why News Nation can't make ground on Fox because people want a side. That's right. And News Nation wants to be all the news for all the people which is admirable. We're in a bifurcated world right now. It's not getting close. Eric, where are you? You're now where?

You're with the Red Sea Ventures? Well, Red Sea was bought by Fox Corporation, so my digital portion is with Fox now, but my cable portion is on Real America's Voice and YouTube and Rumble. We're live there as well. So I own the show, but I license it to RAV and also license it to Fox.

He's in the right place entrepreneurially and the country, you gotta bet on the country getting past the parties. That's my bet. I agree. And it's not opportunistic. I mean this is where I am. I don't like the parties I never have. I say the same thing on Pat's show all the time. If your name's Cuomo, I'll vote for you. If you run as a Democrat, I'll vote for you if you run as a Democrat I'll vote for you as a Democrat if you need me in the primary, but I hate the parties They are the problem in our culture. Can Stephen A Smith get the support of Democrats? Yes. I Think he can even with his now he won't get it if I have anything to say about it because I care about him too Much and I don't want to see him get chewed up by that system because they'll start coming for him

Right now he's on the ascendant and I think with good reason. I love Stephen a I love what he's a markup and But he's he's he's pick and choose the issue he's not straight blue. Yeah, but that's the way you got to be That's the way we are everywhere else in our life. You get elected I mean, I think Robert F Kennedy Kennedy Jr. should be the next president. I really do, but people on my side, MAGA, don't like that because he comes from a Democrat place. We've become so bifurcated. The country's just going wider and wider apart.

They don't want to just beat the other side. They want to destroy. They don't want to see a 2-1 baseball game. They want to see a 12-0 blowout no-hitter But I believe that's those are the fringes in our everyday life where you are reading them where I that's where the ratings are No question. No, I'm not I'm not arguing that point you win. What I'm saying is I'm betting on something bigger than that That there are more independent critical thinkers in this country Then we let on look I'm sorry.

Go ahead. They voted for Trump, though. Some did, yeah. Well, most. Some did. More than half. Some did why? Because he's a known quantity.

And what was going on with the left, mostly from a cultural perspective, because I believe they got baited into a fight that they couldn't win, was more removed from normal than Trump The left. Yeah. Yeah the left that that was so crazy. Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you guys a question So Stephen A Smith Say he ends up running. Okay Will he have more momentum? Will he have more momentum running as a Democrat or as a Republican? Forget independent, I'm saying Democrat or Republican. Democrat. He can't run as

Republican. MAGA is gonna hold, yeah, who's the heir to Trump? Is it JD Vance? Is it Don Jr.? Or one of the other Trumps, who knows, could be Ivanka Trump for that. No idea, but the throne right now is in MAGA's hands. I'm not Republicans at all. Throw out Republicans. No one even cares about the Republican Party anymore. It's the new Conservative Party is Trump's party. It's MAGA, it's what we are.

Stephen A. Smith, great. He would be a better disruptor of the left for us than actually running on our side. Look, Chris. Look, I just think that, Eric's right, but the virtue of Stephen A, okay, and I don't mean to like, you know, canonize this guy. And I'm afraid because I know what happens

when somebody's getting elevated, there's now a price on you to bring you down. And I don't want to see that for him. So that's why I'm shy on this. But he is also a reminder that reasonable should be a commodity. It should be a commodity. The fact that you've got to be full on MAGA

or you've got to want to kill Trump. Last night I said, I want the president to be successful in making the economy stronger for as many workers as possible and to set us up for a better national security perspective. And I didn't say President Trump for a reason, because I wanted people to just grab the concept of the office. Nope, I got savaged. Okay, you say anything about Trump, you get savaged.

That's the problem. Nobody is like that anywhere else in their life except in our politics and Stephen a Smith is a reminder that you don't have to be a rabid form of one or the other and that's why I love Yeah, I think Democrats are gonna destroy him if he runs as a Democrat. I think they will destroy him. I think Eventually, they'll want to control what he has to say and they'll have that meeting to say it's you better do this or else we have this on you and they won't it's it's what your brother wasn't willing to do. You can't do that with him you know Stephen well enough. I know I know what I'm saying it's not about you can or you can't if you can't then you can't run because in democratic party

they believe in arranged marriage they believe in arranged marriage. They believe in arranged marriage. They tell you, hey Democrats, this is your president. They lost, they're down. They've never seen numbers like this. Their organization is screwed up. Nobody wants to give them money. So I don't know that they'll have as much control. But I will tell you this, you are right about one aspect of the dynamic. I would be very surprised if the next one, two, three Democrats that we start talking about are inside the system. On some level, they will be perceived as outsiders. Maybe they'll be an office holder, but they're not going to be seen as part of the establishment. I'm

just that's what I'm coming on. both sides are cooked because they're kicking my ass so much. The establishment side that I know they're afraid of that. It's gonna be an Oprah. It's gonna be someone like that. Entertainment world. But I got the smarts and also the charisma and the it factor like Trump. They need a Democrat version of Trump.

Yeah, right now. No one's because they will. They don't have a and I keep saying the face where who's going to be the face. You have AOC and Bernie Sanders out there like by the way There's no that's a that's a gift to you guys Every time they speak I can't go over them speak But when it comes like a Stephen a you made a great point about like don't stop not only they're gonna go after him It's like if the Democrats because he's saying this himself. He's saying I'm getting approached by these politicians

I'm getting all these people if they're gonna back you and give all that money I'm getting approached by these politicians, I'm getting all these people, if they're going to back you and give all that money, my only fear is, just like how you said it, when you go in, okay, God willing if he wins, because I think he's a great guy, I'm saying I want our side to win, but if he comes in, the promises that were made to you that you're giving back to them, it's the policies, are you going to reverse everything that we've been trying to do for the past four years, because that's exactly what Biden did. They come in, everything reversed, and the country went downhill.

That's my only fear is whoever they pick, whoever the new face is going to be, I can care about the face. It's what are you going to do? What are you going to be your policies? That's the... It would be great if that's what the debate is. If the debate is about whose ideas make the most sense,

then we win. Then we win. Who's we? We, literally. Everybody wins. Yes. If it's about the ideas of what the country needs in that moment, we win. Good. If it's about who, we lose. If it's about why one side you must vote for it because the other is worse, if that's the analysis, we lose. That is the trend we're seeing, is that we've been going down a reductive path.

I do think you do have to build in one thing to your calculus though. I don't know that post-Trump, you have a MAGA next. That can, depending on how it goes, you could be running back to what you guys used to be, which was the character counts I don't think that's ever gonna happen But it will depend a lot largely on how the economy how how you know the borders whether we're not we're involved in any

foreign wars and if if he does if he stays true to You know you you drill you bring the price of oil down you bring taxes down the economy the demand in our economy is there You don't screw that up and in two years you hold the House and Senate, it's yours to lose. I mean it's literally theirs to lose. If you listen to Steve Mann and JD Vance becomes the president and then JD steps down then you have another term of, hold on, a legal loophole that that's what Steve Mann is just talking about it on NewsNationWheel. It's not a legal loophole that that's what Steve Bannon is just talking about it on NewsNation it's not a legal loophole legal it you can't do it you can't have the VP who has been a two-term president step up that's the 22nd amendment and the 12th

amendment working together don't don't allow it you don't like Bannon oh no I don't dislike Bannon I'm saying that I get what he's doing it's a great political play because it's creating this aspirational idea of that's how good Trump is Yeah that we got to figure out how to break the system and I saw this playbook work for Bloomberg Bloomberg in New York City took the city through a really hard time They didn't want him to leave So they went to the City Council and changed the city charter to allow him to have another term. Now, can you do that on the federal level? Can you? Yeah, but you're not going to get a constitutional amendment for anything. The only loophole wouldn't be that one, Vinny. It would be that it's a national emergency so he can't leave.

But not martial law, because then that's military rule. And that's a very tricky space. I get why Bannon's doing it I don't how it could know how it could ever happen Eric. I Why not? I mean there was You know we were at the end of Obama 2.0 we thought Michelle was gonna win and he picked Barack as her vice president and she was gonna step down to have third term of Obama's but we saw Barack is her vice president and she was going to step down the third term of Obama. But you can't, the 12th Amendment doesn't allow it. We got Joe Biden's third term of Obama.

But listen, Bannon is a provocateur, he's a good friend of mine, he's on my show every single day. The last seven minutes of my show I'm with Steve. We do the handoff the way Ewan Lemon used to do the handoff at CNN. I think he's brilliant. I think he is the original thought, mind behind the populist movement which is now not only in in America. It's sweeping the globe What did you say you do what with Don Lemon my show my show ends at that five and he He picks up at five and we do have seven minutes. He's taking a shot

That was That was my favorite part of your show. I heard hands, whatever. It's Don Lemon. The two of you bantering back and forth. You know how that started, the handoff? The handoff started with Jeff Zucker telling me, you've gotta stay over onto his show to kind of help mitigate whatever was going to come out of his

stop. I believe it. I believe it. Stop it. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. Can you help him not start with a stumble? You got to help start the show because who knows what he's going to be saying? Well one, I was the number one show, right? So you wanted to carry over but it was his take may or may not have been something that they wanted the CNN logo underneath in that moment. So they would have me stay on just to kind of like, let's hear where he's coming from out of the box. If you don't want to take of a guy, how long was Lemon with CNN? Why would you keep them?

Seven, eight? Why would you keep them? Because in a polarized environment, in a divided environment, people who are provocative and coming from a definite point of view resonate. I mean, he checks all the bars. Black guy, gay, angry. And by the way, Zucker's best friend is Don Lemon's best friend, who's his agent. So they had a real bond. How long was he there? That's why I didn't go full ham on Don for choosing Zucker'sers bullshit about what my life was over my own even though we were friends

Because he was very close with Jeff and he wanted to keep his job. I got it. I didn't respect it, but I understood it What's the story with you think CNN right now? But by the way, your lawsuit is still pending with them. Yes, it's not done yet. No No But by the way, your lawsuit is still pending with them. Yes, it's not done yet. No No arbitration is a nightmare Call me Trish getting done or not. So they switched out their GC. So when you do that never a good sign it's it's you know, it's not a good sign for having them and again, I say this and I know it's frustrating I Loved being at CNN. I miss the people there. I never got to say goodbye to most of them. And I wish them well.

I do not have a problem with CNN. I have a problem with the two guys who decided to lie about me and let me go. That's my beef. And I'm not even looking for a huge payday. I just need to have one comma removed from the description of me, which is fired from CNN, true, comma for lying about what he did. I know I didn't and I need that away because people Literally the only thing you want. Yeah, because that's what they use on me all the time is well you were fired for lying, right? No, I was not fired for lying

I was fired because the new member the new owners didn't like What I was and my boss was being pinched and they sacrificed me and That's okay. The way they did it was not okay And that's all I want is I don't want you to be able to say Chris Cuomo is coming on today who was fired from CNN of course for lying about how he helped it. I don't want that. I don't want it I don't want my kids to have to see it I don't want it as part of my reputation because it's not true. Have you and Zucker spoken since then or no?

Nothing at all. No. Is CNN worth buying today? Yeah, I think it's a very, very powerful brand. At what price? Oh, I don't know. That's your world. I mean, you're saying CNN is worth buying today. Yeah, I think it's a really powerful brand.

You think the CEO of the company, Scott Jennings, will sell? I have no idea. I have no idea. Yeah, I think it's a really powerful brand. You think the CEO of the company, Scott Jennings, will sell? I have no idea. I have no idea. Because you know Scott Jennings owns CNN. Yeah, I know. Look, I always got along with them. I think it's really important for them. I think they should have more than one of him.

We used to have like six of him. Now they only have one. And I frankly thought that they had other ones that were even more effective as arguers. But it's really important to have, my favorite one is, and I tell you age is a horrible thing, Pat. What was the name of the guy? Ran for president. He was Senator. Huntsman? Big Christian. He's got like seven kids. Oh, Santorum. Rick Santorum was a great, great president. You know, we used to get sideways every once in a while, but disagree, but not be disagreeable. That said, what he had that I think Chris

Sununo needs a little bit of to become a real thing, I think Chris Sununo has got real potential, if you poked him too much, you were going to get smacked in the head. And that's an important thing to have in debate, which is, hey, we're being respectful. When you've decided now you're not going to be respectful, you just made a mistake. And I you've decided now you're not gonna be respectful, you just made a mistake, and I'm gonna make you very aware of it very fast. Rick had that, and I think that's an important part of the mix, but I'm happy for Jennings' success,

and I'm happy for CNN to have balance. It's really, really important. When are we gonna see a podcast with you and Lemon? Oh, I don't know. Why would I do it? Seriously, like, why would I do it? You think he's gonna apologize to me? I should have called you.

Open up the song with like, reunited and it feels so good. But I don't think like it's a. I wish, I mean look, you know me. I have nothing but good stuff for him. I hope good things. I am a loyalty guy, okay? That's the end of the analysis for me. Doesn't mean I hate you, doesn't mean I want bad things for you, doesn't mean I'm looking to do bad things to you, but

you're a ride-or-die or you're not. And it's a very simple analysis. I am very lucky to have people like you in my life. I'm very lucky to call a guy, you, Tom, Vinny, Eric, to have guys who are my friends who I know I'll call up, I'm going to get a straight read, and you're with me. And if you're not, you're going to tell me. That's what matters to me in life. People have different value systems. I'm not judging anybody's.

I never say bad shit about Don. And I want him to be successful. Why? Why wouldn't I? But why would I do a podcast with him? He's gonna apologize? Do it to me, man to man. I should have asked you what was going on.

I should have heard your side. I shouldn't have just defaulted to doing what was good for me in that moment. Did he call you at all? No. Yes, but not when he needed to and how he needed to. And again, I'm not judging it. I get it, I get it.

Would I have done the same thing? No, because I am reckless with my self-interest where loyalty is involved. If Vinny's in a pinch, I'm there for Vinny. Yeah, but Vinny, he may have screwed up here. Hey, I'll deal with that later. Vinny and I will figure that out later. But this is my guy.

So against anybody else, I'm with you. Then we'll figure it out. Vinny, why did you do this? Yeah, yeah, what the hell are you thinking? Vinny, dinner's on you for a long effing time. But you're my guy. So would I do a podcast with him to what end to what end I don't find what he's saying particularly interesting, you know, I'm not interested in hearing people tell me what's wrong

I'm not interested in it. I'm not interested in people telling me why they think somebody's bad. I'm Good on that. I get it. What's better? How do we get better? What's your better idea? That's what I'm doing on a regular basis. All right, so you were with Bill Maher. You and him are doing a show together. Speaking of guys who are doing it the right way. Top of class.

You're with Bill Maher, you're doing a show. He had just had Kid Rock on. Kid Rock invites him over to the White House. You're asking him questions, going back and forth, and then he goes on, and then he says, on April 11th, or whatever the date was, I'm gonna share with you guys what it was like to be at the White House, himself, Dana, Chuck,

Kid Rock, and the president, they have time together. This is his breakdown of what happened after the visit to the White House. Rob, if you gotta go in and play the clip. Just for starters he laughs I've never seen him laugh in public, but he does including it himself And it's not fake believe me as a comedian of 40 years. I know a fake laugh when I hear it He was showing me the portraits of presidents and he pointed to reagan

and said in all seriousness you know the best thing about him his hair i said well there was also that whole bringing down communism thing waiting for the button next to the diet coke button to get pushed and i go through the trap door. But no, he laughed, he got it. Look, I get it.

It doesn't matter who he is at a private dinner with a comedian. It matters who he is on the world stage. I'm just taking it as a positive that this person exists because everything I've ever not liked about him was, I swear to God, absent at least on this night with this guy. I never felt I had to walk on eggshells around him. And honestly, I voted for Clinton and Obama, but I would never feel comfortable talking to them the way I was able to talk with Donald Trump.

That's just how it went down. Make of it what you will. Me, I feel it's emblematic of why the Democrats are so unpopular these days. Mm. Well, I was... Amen. Thoughts. Truth bomb.

One, Bill Maher, top of class. He did the right thing going, and I agree with his description of President Trump 100%. And people who say it was wrong for him to go see him, they're the problem. People who are saying he's been red-pilled are stupid. People who are saying he just wants to be seen a certain way don't know him. The guy is 70 years old, he's a made man, he needs nothing. He did this because he thought it was the right thing to do. And I agree with him 100%.

And tonight I got Geraldo coming on who thinks he's a hypocrite. And look, I love Geraldo. Okay, so this is my guy. Tonight we're going to get a little spicy though, because I don't agree. I don't agree. And- Heraldo?

Yeah, I don't agree with him. I think that what Bill did was right. I think what he did was right. And I think we gotta defend it, because we need so much more of it. You can say, Trump, I don't like that you're doing this, I don't like you doing this, I don't like doing this, I don't like how you talk to him, I don't like you doing this, I don't really like doing this, I don't like how you talk to him, I don't like that.

But I don't have to hate you. And Trump is like, I don't have to tell you guys, you know him. Well, you asked Corraldo how he went four years at Fox loving Trump while he was there, and then he leaves and now all of a sudden he hates Trump since he's changed his opinion. But he's known him since 25 years. He would say, I don't hate Trump. I miss my friendship with him. I couldn't stay with him after January 6. Trump hasn't changed any of his policies, Chris.

He's literally been closed the border, build a wall, close the border, deport illegals since he walked since 2015. January 6 and how you talk about Latinos is too much for Geraldo, who is a Latino. That's his answer. Especially with illegals. That's very convenient. Big time. That's the hill that he will die on. That's very convenient to choose January 6 because it happened after the first term

of Trump where he was all in when he was at Fox. I will contend that Geraldo loves the little red dot above a camera when it's on him and he'll pretty much deliver whatever the people who are watching on the other side of that camera are looking for and in your case They want more Trump Bashing or Trump derangement my audience does not want more Trump bashing my audience at News Nation is ridiculously centrist and oversampled independent and I see in the ratings that as soon as anything starts to sniff inauthentic or gratuitous, we tank.

People want to see things tested and clarified and have a reset on the show of what would be better than this. Now, look, I love Geraldo, but tonight, I disagree with him. We need so much more of what Bill did. Now what happens is somebody says to me, oh, so you'd go see Trump? Look, no, I wasn't going to go to Mar-a-Lago when Morning Joe went down there for the same reason that I wasn't going to go with Tom Homan after Dr. Phil went and became an extension of the operation. I kneel for no one. Okay. I do that never for anybody in any situation. And would I go to the White House? Yeah, I'd go to the White House. Would I speak to the president? Yeah, I'd speak

to the president. Did I call him when people tried to kill him? Yeah, why? Because I don't want to see anything bad happen to him because he's a father and a grandfather and I care about his family and I don't have to like what he's doing. So I have no problem with what Bill did. It is part of the solution. What do you think about what Bill said after going to the White House? I think it just shows that everything that people... Because I saw clips of him taking Trump out of context multiple, multiple times, as if Trump wasn't going to go back and the fighting's happening. I'm stepping back as a comedian going,

when in the history of America could a rock and roll guy, kid rock, be having dinner with somebody go you know what I think you should meet the president United States and it happens like that and Bill Maher who is quote unquote a comedian I mean he has how many god knows how many writers writing his stuff for his show but I think it's amazing that Trump has that much access we're at freaking UFC this weekend and I look at Pat I'm like Pat first of all thank you I'm standing there and Cash Patel comes in, Elon Musk with X, there's Donald Trump, Tulsi Gabbard, Ted Cruz, everybody the accessibility to this guy

to get close to a guy to have like you said Chris you have a problem? He brought the guy into the White House and sat down and said you know talk to me talk to me for him to take somebody that's the most one of the most far out Trump hating TDS guys and now he's brought him to where he's like oh he's actually not what I really thought he disagrees which you have to do like that's I want that all the time if you don't like the policy say but I think it's amazing that that's gonna show cuz you know you know Bill Maher's gonna lose like fans he's I'm pretty sure he unsubscribing and not watching that anymore because said you're a traitor and you're going to the opposite opposite side

I think what he did was freaking amazing. I still have a lot of disagreements with Bill Maher, but I think it was great I think it's making the country for all the people that were like hating now understanding that he's a freaking human being You know what my concern was when we went to the White House. Let me see if I have this or not. If I have it, you guys gotta see it. To the White House? You know, not to the White House.

When we went to, what do you call it? UFC? UFC. So somebody sends a picture, Rob, I gotta send this to you. Can you pull this up? They send a picture of, Rob, I don't know if you got it or not.

Oh, us and the, I just got it. Us with Trump? Yeah, so they send this, and I don't know why they did this to Tom. So this is like the design, the graphic design, creative, Rob, you gotta pull this up. I mean, that's a pretty impressive depiction of Tom Ellsworth.

Tom, you gotta send this to your, you gotta send, Kim, she's gotta watch this. Go ahead and put that picture up, Rob. Look at Tom to the left. Wow. Tom's already left. Look at Tom to the left. Wow. Legit. I'm like, oh, juice. Why'd they change my shirt to future look grim? Scrubbster by TRT. The only guy who's even close to accurate in that is Dylan. Dylan, yeah. That's Patrick. That's Patrick. That's the oldest. Yeah. Oh, that's Patrick. Trump looks like Guile from Street Fighter II. Trump does look like Gile.

Look at Vinny. But by the way, you did not even have, Tico to me goes and says, the only question I got is why do they have Vinny with a beard? He doesn't have a beard, he's shaved. Yeah, that's weird. Go back to that one right there. Go back to the regular one, Rob? Vinny always has a beard.

Yeah, I've been trying to be, by the way, I was going to be in front of the president, I heard he's not a big beard. They made you very white in that picture, by the way I was gonna be in front of the president, I heard he's not a big beard. They made you very white in that picture by the way. Apparently I'm from Mississippi. I know. They anglicized you. You've arrived, you're an American now.

Rob, can you go to the original one? Show them the original right there. No more H-1B visas. Look at that. I've never smiled that hard in my life for no reason. The bartender in the back is looking at it. The president is just so funny. No matter when you're around him, naturally he's always got a sense of humor with him.

Okay, let me go with this one announcement that Chris is very excited about and supportive of. Hexed promise record $1 trillion out of Pentagon budget. If you want to play this clip, Rob, if you want to pull this out, the markets responded favorably on this one when this was shown. If you't have the clip I do just give me I'll find I want Tom your thoughts on the story here with hex that promise on the trillion and how to market kind of a little bit of a bounce Yeah, so I I kind of did a double blink when I was listening to and I said wait a minute

So you got doge at the defense department? You're like what 880 or something like that right now 880 be you know that you're spending and You got Doge in there. You're laying off civilians that are in supplemental administrative positions as you defined it and You're you're trying not to Just drop all these arms off at NATO that that now you want them to pay for so that wouldn't be your defense budget That would be with their bang from Boeing and Raytheon. Okay, I get it.

But how do you get to the trillion thing? It's like, I'm gonna save all this money in government and then for my enemies, I'm gonna scare the hell out of you because I'm bringing it up to a trillion. There's gonna be like Star Wars and Reagan. I'm gonna have an even bigger weapon system that I'm gonna be there and do and then but the market goes Did I hear? 240 billion dollars in EBITDA

I think I did and so all the indexes all the defense indexes move and it moves the market a little bit because the market Market is right now and Eric This is all you is sentiment driven if the sentiment is a good mood or a bad mood it moves around. I've never seen the VIX Moving with this like volatility and so I'm like, yes what it's not the volatility index. It's the velocity index It's just the velocity of dollars that are coming, you know, it's like waves high tide low tide So the VIX I look at and say, you know what? I'll get back to you someday and I'll trust you VIX, but right now all you are is a measure of velocity.

And guess what? A trillion dollars of defense is a hell of a lot of velocity. Pull up VXX for a second, not VIX, VXX. There's the index, VXX will just, VXX not VIX. Oh, I'm sorry, it's okayi You're right the Volatility give it six months or a year whatever five years even look at that expect and then April second Wow those spikes there right at the end that was the day that they announced right And then and what that is it's it's they call it a fear index or confusion index and people was generally

They call it a fear index or confusion index and people was generally Blown away by the tariff announcement even though they knew it was coming and look the only other time it happened recently was a Massive spy don't even know what that the event was in August of 24. It rarely ever goes to Above 80 and it went from the low 20s teens to to 75 80 and is Making its way back down as people digest in this but the general idea is it's still elevated Tom It's still high meaning there the market the Players the bigger players in the market are still uncertain of the direction of market is he's gonna tank it could go down another Four or five thousand points is it it going to make new record highs?

Who knows? They don't know right now. And when that confusion is in the market, the VIX spikes. Why spend more on defense right now? That's what I was just going to say. That's the question. I'll just say why, number one. And number two, how many audits has the Pentagon failed, Tom?

All of them. Every one of them. They have a perfect record. Every single one. And then I'm just curious, Pat, what that bill? Are we just for defense spending, are we spending, are we giving it to other countries to protect themselves because they're going to help us? I want to know where that, the worst timing for something like that is right now. Cause you're right Chris, we own all the nukes. I'm just letting you know I

worked at a nuclear missile base. We had 200 ICBMs in the ground with up to three or four or five warheads in each cone. Like this missile goes in and out of space, the reentry system is here, this thing opens up, we have, and that was one base. 80% of our arsenal is swimming around in the ocean. Nobody's messing with us. Nobody is dumb enough to do it. Why all the, I'm so confused. Why?

As if we need that right now. It's the establishment war pimps wanting their money. And this is the biggest test in my opinion for the president. You are a disrupter. You are the man who says I do not have to bow to anyone. And things are going to change about who gets to stay at the trough for the longest. These are the biggest pigs at the trough. And I just don't get it. I just don't get it.

I don't agree with the theory, but the theory is that they're spending, whatever, 12%, 15% more than the record they spent last year. And it continues to go up is that Trump wants to retool our military who wants to update missiles fighter jets that cost a lot of money to do that and that's that's his vision I don't necessarily agree with the Vinny I agree with you that mutual destruction is always there and we will always have that, the upper hand on mutual destruction with any country in the world, including Russia, China, whomever, but to completely come back with every nuclear sub-retool, all our fighters, he's doing the F-47, the F-47 is now going to cost, you know, whatever X of what the F-35 did, which Trump campaigned on how wasteful it was. He is an anti-extension guy militarily, which I think is a virtue of his in terms of lining up with the American people.

And this is a boogeyman. This is what the Cold War was. Look at Russia. Look at, you know, to Vinny's point, when I went to Russia, when they were doing the nuke clean-up, and I was in outer Siberia where they kept them, it was in a barn that was sealed with a wax string on wine racks. Were you wearing that tight black t-shirt when you were reporting? Every t-shirt on me're reporting every t-shirt on Because I'm 225 pounds of bad intentions. Yeah, but I was wearing BD use when I was there Oh really and the Russian guys had no weapons and they had mix matched uniforms and I was like I don't get it Are they a special forces like no the uniforms are hard to get here and they sell the weapons because they haven't been paid in A few weeks we made a complete boogeyman out of them. Now they want to do it again about China. You want to cut money. The DOD is there.

Okay, you want to deal with Medicaid. You want to make it more efficient. You want waste fraud and abuse. Fine. Fine. Fine. All of those boxes get checked in a big way there. And if that place wins again, then you are no better than who you replaced in terms of going after the powerful. So it's interesting because if I'm not mistaken, the F-47 Boeing makes, right? This morning, this news came out at 7 a.m. this morning, Rob, with China. Did you guys see the story about, Rob, I sent you the story of a New York Post, China halts Boeing deliveries as trade war with U.S. intensifies. Did you see that? I saw Boeing jets.

Right, Boeing jets. We're not talking. So if you want to go a little bit lower. So China has ordered its airlines to halt all jet orders for American manufacturers Boeing in response to President Trump's tariffs, hitting the country with tariffs as high as $145. Beijing has additionally told Chinese carriers to not purchase any aircraft related equipment from American companies

Bloomberg News reported the order comes Rob goes order comes after China was under 25% okay, go a little bit lower and Boeing shares dip 3% and pre market trading Tuesday over the pause in the shipments to China Which he the company views as one of the biggest growth markets despite being dominated by rival Airbus Can you go to Boeing stock real quick just to kind of see what it looks like? down What is it 2% yeah, it's down 2% for the day Interesting Tom your thoughts on this on Boeing just the trillion Boeing all of it combined so

You know sometimes those headlines. I look at I say, wait a minute, we were kind of expecting this because China's intra-country travel has been down. The people inside China have been traveling less because their economy has been, let me look, down. And so they've had these issues. And so Boeing, I think, was expecting a moderation in the in the deliveries of the PO that they got there. And so this headline is kind of like, you know, we kind of saw it coming. But now they say, well, China is telling Boeing not to do it because they want to,

you know, stab at the United States on this. Well, I think there's a lot of that there, too. But the point is, and not to do it because they want to you know stab at the United States on this well I think there's a lot of that there too, but the point is and Eric alluded to it There's a lot of things going on that economy over there that are not particularly up into the right And so there's a lot of industries over there that were moderating and for them to also come in and by the way I don't want you by the Boeing planes. Well. I wasn't gonna buy for the three of them anyway Well, don't buy the fourth. You know, that's the way it felt to me. Kind of scammy.

Hit that one month on that chart right there. April 2nd, see that day? That's the tariff announcement, boom. So it's making its way back. It's 157 ballpark, and it was only in the 160s, 170s prior to that so it Boeing's still gonna make airplanes air sell them around the world China's still gonna be a producer it this tariff game is it's scary and this is a rather flat

trading window this is not a disaster. When do we find out what's in that trillion dollars? If you do a two-year, maybe even a five-year, watch how low Boeing gets. See, at some point, look, Boeing was down. They had those airplanes falling out of the sky. That was more detrimental to Boeing's time than China making it. Yeah, Boeing jets were falling apart. The Max, Boeing Max, right? Not a good product launch. Never good. But look, I'm just saying that this is a no brainer. All right. You're in reduction mode right now, right? In terms of government spending.

And of course, everybody supports the military and want a military. And, you know, Vinny, you know, Pat, you know, everybody knows this, whether you're served or not. You talk to those people. There will be the first ones who tell you that there's a lot of money wasted. Of course, of course. And it's not in the right things. we have way way too much infrastructure versus our warrior component. You know, it's just always benefited because there's an optic that if you put money into military it means that you're strong. I just looked up what's in the budget for fiscal 2025.

It says 850 billion even though he's saying over a trillion, four and a half percent raise for service members, 14 and a half percent increase for junior enlisted troops, which if you remember Vinny, during Obama, I think the military got a raise of 1% for like four or five, six years. That's it. They didn't get a big raise. So they're giving them a bigger raise to get people to want to join. 287 is going to operations and maintenance. 172 is going to procurement, including aircrafts like the F-35. R&D and test and evaluation, 143 billion. They're testing funds for programs like the B-21 stealth bomber and the next generation

air dominance. Military construction and family housing, 17.5 billion, defense health program $40 billion, nuclear modernization is another $33.5 billion, international security assistant doesn't say the number. But I'd be curious to know where that money is going to be going. Let me get to the next story here. This one's kind of interesting and I wonder what you guys will say about this, both of you. Kristi Noem urges people to get real IDs

to keep our country safe. This is a Breitbart story. Department of Homeland Security, DHS, Kristi Noem encouraged Americans to get real IDs, stating in a video on X, which here's the clip. Rob, if you want to play the clip first, and then I'll get into the rest of it. Hi, I'm Kristi Noem,

the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. If you plan on traveling, we need your help to prevent delays and to prove your identity. Get a real ID. Starting May 7th, you will need a real ID to travel by air or to visit federal buildings in the United States. These IDs keep our country safe because they help prevent fraud and they enhance security. Please do your part to protect our country. Go today and don't delay.

To learn more, go to dhs.gov slash real dash ID. Thank you. Chris, what do we know about these real IDs so far? What I don't know what there is to know that makes them suspicious. I have one. Eric. Same. It's a great idea. This is obviously the precursor to requiring an ID to vote,

which is great. Tom. I agree. We've had Real ID standards since Texas. We have one with the star in Texas. When I came down here, I noticed my new driver's license here had the star, and I think it's a good thing.

And by the way, I'll add something. When I went from California to Texas, I surrendered my California driver's license. They say, I'm sorry, that's not an acceptable form of ID. Because it's been compromised because you can get it as a general ID and so we need a birth certificate or something. So I actually went and got my social security card,

tattered it was, it was plastic envelope, I came back, is this good enough and this is my passport? Yes, but it was so funny that you couldn't get driver's license in Texas in 2015 by trading in a California license because they said, that's not good. So it's funny, yesterday we're in a meeting and one of our guys is like,

man let me tell you this Real ID stuff's a big concern, you gotta be careful with it, they're doing this, he's kinda giving his own feel. And then Danny Cannell, Danny's like, do you have a Florida ID? Yeah, he says, you know if you have a Florida ID, it's a real ID. He says, really, take out your ID.

He says, yeah, that star is real ID. So cool, I got a real ID. It was the funniest moment for a second because at first it was like, hey, exactly. Where are you at with this? That's us because we have it because you know they updated the system but I think forcing everybody to do it it isn't about security or stopping fraud it's about control. The last time we saw it was with the Patriot Act where they were locking down on

everybody and they want it's they they they're they're wrapping it in this polite language if we want to help you fly but they're building a federal tracking system that's what it that's what it comes down to and you're they're making people do it you can't go into a if you don't get it Chris you can't go into a VA you can't do any federal building any any federal court system anything you can't go into the building and I think it's it's an excuse well what I'm saying is they're forcing people to do it because they want to track everybody in this sense so what you're like you need to have an ID to vote but you don't think the government has

the right to know who's in the country? No, they know who's in the country but a real ID this is overstepping a little bit more because of all the stuff that you don't want it entails to get. Yeah, I actually have the form on my phone right now because I went for the enhanced one. It's all regular bullshit information Vinny, there's nothing discreet in there. I just think you know... Vinny, I got the form information Vinny. There's nothing there's nothing discreet in there. I just think you know there any I got the form On my phone. There's nothing different of it. So what's so a regular ID? What's the upgrade to the real I got to show where you live you got to show a tax thing a W2 and

Your registrar your car registration the way so what's the difference between just your regular identification? They have to know where you live. They have to know, you know what I mean? All your social everything. You submit a couple of more things that prove who you are. I mean, I think you got a little boogeyman going on here. Anytime that they're trying to say, like, listen, we want this. Let me ask this question though.

We had a podcast, somewhere about a year ago. Rob. I don't know if you remember this with this lady Her name is Candice. I believe and this other guy. What's his name? Chris? Yeah, do you remember these? There was like this moment on this podcast there was a conversation about IDs ID do you remember this? I do I remember fine. Look, I get the policy arguments against wanting voter ID. Let me tell you this. Here's what I'm going. Rob, if you want to, do you have it? Just press the clip, see if it gets to it or not. But I just hope we don't get a flag for playing a clip on another channel. Is that it, Rob? Is that the part? That's where it peaks. Let's see it.

Let's see. I was 16 years old because I wanted to drive and pick up my boyfriend. I get it. And those are the reasons people get IDs. That simple. I love you too. I get it. What I'm saying is okay two things can be. I don't know when we're gonna. It's a 30 minute clip if you guys want to see Gullatch. I get the arguments that they make against voter ID. The people who won't have one who wind up not voting are the same people Republicans don't want to vote. That's the political argument. But this is about, it's funny because this kind of gets a conservative to be against

it and gets a liberal to be for the ID. I'm not a liberal. Just hear me out for a second. What was the word I use you use it was a A reasonable leftist or what was a tolerable leftist some world common-sense leftist, but anyways that's today It's a free agent so different or chooches, but check this out. Check this out What if Chris yes, they take the next step with these IDs?

What's the next step the next step is that a 100% of people in America need an ID to vote. Yeah, you're going to have a big political fight. The left is going to say that you're disenfra—and now they may have allies with— By the way, the point, you understand what just happened? This was so funny what just happened right now because he's sitting here saying, what's wrong with the ID? You know what's wrong? There's so many conservatives with Vinny on this libertarian say don't get out of my life and then but wait Yeah, let's talk about gun registries then

Well, we now we don't want it. We have a gun registry. No. When you go, there's a federal registry. You and I both had to sign up. Like, um, wait a minute. That's not true. When you buy a weapon, you have to fill out paperwork

for the federal government. They make a phone call and do a check on you. There's a waiting period. Depends on what kind of weapon and where you are. You can purchase guns legally without having a background check. Where? Gun shows. Look, that's the loophole, right? Right, but my point is I'm a conservative. I'm saying keep your registries off my second amendment, yet I also want a voter ID, a real ID to vote.

I mean, there's a bit of a hypocrisy there. I'm just calling it out. I don't think it's hypocrisy. I think it's conditioning, okay? I think that we are a gotcha culture, that you have this lineup with a side, and if you're gonna go against the side, you gotta say something that kind of

keeps your legitimacy with them. You know, like yelling, oh, I agree with yelling on this, but she's a terrible leftist who was whatever. You know, you gotta keep your dap with your side, which is part of the problem. I'm telling you, when you buy a weapon, you have to go through the federal register, maybe not at a gun show, I don't know,

I bought it as, I bought my weapons at stores. But, you know, fine, you want a background check everywhere, I don't have a problem with that, most responsible gun owners don't. Our beef is with how people keep their guns and let people get access to them and don't store them safely. And then you have bad things. The voter ID, I'm just laying out to you what the resistance is. The resistance is that you want voter ID because the people who don't have an ID are the people who don't vote for you. That's their argument against it.

Or the people who don't have an ID aren't citizens. And that's the counter. It's not like a little caveat there. Except that every time they looked. Elon Musk discovered 2 million people with social security numbers and they were illegals. With US social security numbers. Now, first of all, why?

Here's the answer. Because employers take illegal workers and get them into the system because they have to pay FICA for them. And that's why they do it. It's not a boogeyman. It's not a gotcha. You want to say they vote every time they have looked at it. Conservative organizations they found 150 what they believed may be people who shouldn't have voted, voted out of 27 million ballots.

Maybe I'm not sure that number is right. I'm not sure that numbers right I'm not gonna They have many millions maybe work or receiving Social Security benefits yes Yes, they don't really they they pay as they pay in they don't necessarily Receive a yes sure they do you have to when you hire them you got to pay the FICA that they Chris Google it how many people are shiny head are here doing landscaping jobs or cleaning hotel resorts, cooking in restaurants who aren't doing any of that? I don't think they get the benefits more than they pay in. To be honest, I don't think so. Now look, I have no problem with the border policy. I was on this show and everywhere else saying that Biden handed the election to Trump. I don't believe that Trump won.

I believe that Biden and the Democrats lost it. And that issue was a big part of it. And I think you got to give him his props for doing what he said he was going to do. I have no problem with any of that. I'm saying there is no inconsistency for me in saying I have no problem with a real ID when I can tell you I'm trying to find the the application. Why don't we get that for everybody? Let's get it for I'm telling you, I have no problem with it. I'm telling you politically what it'll be. I know what it'll be, but if we got everybody to get real IDs, everybody to get real IDs to vote,

ooh, can you imagine 16 years, if they get real IDs for everybody. If everybody has them, you have no issue. It's that you won't give them to everybody. That will be the problem is that you have to go in or you have to fill out the form. It's like the thing with social security. You just said, why are you worried about a boogeyman, Chris?

There is no boogeyman, it's just an ID. Why do you look like you're worried? This is not one of those boogeyman stuff. You're overthinking this, Chris. I'm not worried, I'm saying if everybody not one of those bogeyman stuff. You're overthinking this, Chris. I'm not worried. I'm saying if everybody gets one, you don't have a problem. The question is who doesn't go and get it? Then it's your job to sell them on going and getting the idea to get a vote.

It's not that big of a deal. It's just a form. You know, they can do it. You just said it's easy. So I'm glad that from a year ago to today, Chris now believes everyone needs an idea to vote. I'm telling you, I ID to vote. I have not changed. I told you what the arguments were against it. I got two real IDs, one in Florida, one in Texas.

Chris, your fellow liberals are going to be so pissed off that you're disenfranchising the illegal voters they worked so hard to import. You guys call me a liberal. You know how hard we worked to get 20 million illegal people into this country, and now they're being disenfranchised, damn it. You guys call me a liberal the same reason liberals use conservative is a bad word. Because it allows somebody to be your opponent. I'm not your opponent. I'm being reasonable.

I'm completely messing with you on this one. No, he's not. Tom's not messing with you. Tom is the guest here. Well, maybe a little. You saw that photo of him? I'm going to put hands on Tom as soon as I see this one. Oh my gosh. You should. You should. It's like a handoff. It would be a handoff with you and Tom. The way you put hands on Tom. Oh my gosh It's like a handoff you know it would be a handoff with you and Tom hands on Don Lemon

Let's go to this next one here. I want to see what's gonna happen here. I don't know Iran and us Envoys hold first negotiation over Tehran's nuclear program and talk face to face, okay? Rob if you got a clip on this face-to-face okay Rob if you got a clip on this US Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff and Iranian foreign minister Abbas Adhokchi held the first face-to-face talks since the Obama era with the White House stating special envoy Witkoff's direct communication today was a step forward in achieving mutual beneficial outcome Trump's commented on Air Force One. Is this the one that you have, Rob?

Yes, I have to. I have President Trump and then I also have Pete Hegseth discussing what would happen if they don't come to a deal. Go to Trump first and then we'll go to Hegseth. Go for it. We can't have nuclear weapons. And I think they're tapping us along because they were so used to dealing with stupid people in this country.

And I had Iran perfect. You had no attacks. You would have never had October 7 in Israel, the attack by Hamas, because Iran was broke. It was stone cold broke when I was president. And I don't want to do it. I want them to be a rich, great nation. The only thing is one thing, simple. It's really simple.

They can't have a nuclear weapon. And they got to go fast, because they're fairly close to having one. And they're not going to have one. And if we have to do something very harsh, we'll do it. And I'm not doing it for us, I'm doing it for the world. And these are radicalized people, and they cannot have a nuclear weapon. Eric? Thoughts?

I think he's being very nice. I think Iran is a state sponsor of terror. They've always been. They will never not be. I think he's right. October 7th wouldn't have happened if Trump were president. I don't think Russia would have attacked Ukraine if Trump were president. I don't, yes, try and prohibit them

from getting a nuclear weapon at all cost. I'm not sure it's gonna happen, but I think the smarter thing to do is continue the massive sanctions on that country until they, I don't know, Patrick, they're run by religious fanatics and they hate the West, they hate everything we're about. I don't think there's any changing their mind and certainly not in our lifetime.

I think a tough hand with Iran is better than trying to negotiate with them. Here's your exit Anna Chris, I'll come to you. Go ahead Rob. We've had direct talks yesterday, they began in the past, it's been indirect talks with a mediator, but there's Steve Witkoff meeting with the foreign minister of Iran. What can he tell us? Well, I can tell you that President Trump is dead serious on this issue. He's dead serious that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He's said that for 20 years.

He's been consistent. That is clear. He's dead serious that he wants it done at the negotiating table. He wants it done peacefully. And that's why he's going straight to these talks. He set that deadline. These were productive talks yesterday. I don't want to get ahead of our skis. Steve Witkoff does a fantastic job, but it was a good step and they're going to go at it again on Saturday. But he's also dead serious that if we can't figure this out at the negotiating table,

then there are other options to include my department to ensure that Iran never has a nuclear bomb. We hope we never get there. We really do Maria But what we're doing with the Houthis and what we're doing in the region We've shown a capability to go far to go deep and to go big and again We don't want to do that But if we have to we will to prevent the nuclear bomb in Iran's hand Chris Amen, brother Chris one I have thoughts on this, but well well let's do this you have a different set of perspectives I want to hear it first then I'll tell you okay for me with this obviously right now everybody is

thinking remember how I said the whole thing with negotiating with China okay here's the terms this is how it's going to work you're going to do do this, and we're going to agree to this. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. You're going to do this, and we're going to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And you're going to do this, and we're going to do this. Oh, for sure, absolutely. All right, here's a deal.

Let's sign, and we leave. We hold our end of the bargain. You think Iran doesn't already have one, if not close to it? If you don't think they have one, or they're not close to it, you're part of the naive community. Of course they have it. They're saying the number they were looking at was the limit, said Rob, if you can pull up the limits for nuclear negotiation with Iran, it's at 3.67%.

I think it's the number for enriching uranium. They're at 60%. Okay, and the negotiation was at 3.67%. Over the last 15 years, Iran would reduce the stockpile of low enriched uranium by 97%. They haven't. They're not listening to you. So well, maybe they're taking time because they really want to negotiate this. Khomeini said, I'm neither overly optimistic, neither pessimistic.

So here's the reality of it. Let's just say you do deal with them. How are you going to hold them accountable that they're not doing it? Let's actually find that part out. Okay, yeah, we're not building a nuclear weapon. How do you know? How do you audit them? How do you find out?

Remember we tried to do that with them once. How do you do it? They didn't let us. We had inspectors that were told to go in and they shut the door. They shut the door. So how do we know anyways? They don't. This isn't about negotiating with Iran.

This is about saying, cut the door. They shut the door. So how do we know anyways? They don't. This isn't about negotiating with Iran. This is about saying, cut the shit. We put a second nuclear strike force in the region, sitting there right now. We're going to show force and have them, I don't know, Pat, maybe Israel goes in and does what they didn't in 1982, where we were playing games with Iran and Israel in the middle of the night when night wipes out their whole nuclear program. Here's what happened. A lot of people that have foreign nationals, a lot of people that have folks living in

Iran right now for deals, they're moving their folks out. They're saying, come home. Whether it's Europe, Asia, Middle East, they're saying, come home. Tensions are too high. They may be attacking the nuclear facility that they have. That threat is there. The ships are already out there close to Iran anyway, so it's like they're close enough to be able to say, we can do something.

But it's one of two things. Either, you know they got a nuclear weapon, and you're not negotiating. You just need this as an excuse to attack. Either that's one, okay, or two, you are naive and you believe they have nuclear weapons or getting close to it, and you're trying to find a way to negotiate with them to get something done. I don't think that's the case. So which one is it? Are we opening up for Israel to do what they want to do?

Does Israel want to do something? Would Israel like to attack their nuclear facilities? Do you think Israel as strong of an intelligence unit that they have, that they claim they have, that we've all seen it and read about it? Do you think they already have some insiders that know exactly where the… Like what do you think are the chances of them knowing exactly where the facilities are? 100%. Very high. I'm going 100%. I'm not so take the

over yeah okay so let's say we're sitting there saying they know all right do you think Israel is gonna wait on US's lead on how to negotiate this or do you think Israel's reputation is They may be saying Let's put this out there. Give us the permission to go in and do no permission. Give us the support Give us everything we need just give us the wink. We're not gonna put your fingerprints on it We'll take care of it like we did in the fine support the fine support and assets Intel Everything but whatever they need to get it done. They're gonna get the Intel they already have the Intel. Okay, assets, Intel, everything. But whenever they need to get it done.

They're gonna get the Intel. They already have the Intel. Okay, so yeah. So this is all I would agree with. If your thesis is, or if your conclusion is, that this is doing all the diplomatic steps that they need to take and then figure out the best. The CIA can't do it. They're too exposed right now. If it happens, it would have to be through Israel. Iran needs somebody to get behind because even with this, let's just say they do something. Some happens to come in, who's gonna replace them? Somebody else from the same exact regime.

So they need, like someone within Iran needs to step up or from the outside. Someone with a strong backbone who wants the job has to rally and win the people over or someone needs to come to, a group of people need to come, like who were we talking to the other day? Oh, JD Vance's brother was here yesterday and we're having a great time. We're giving a tour of the property.

We wanted to see the place. Corey, we're having a conversation together and they said for many, many years the family was saying, JD, you ought to run. And JD didn't want to run. But for many years, like yeah, I'm just a business guy. No, you ought to run. You ought to run. Finally, it's like, listen, I'm getting so much support that I'm running.

You know sometimes guys like really, really want to run and you can feel the ambition. Then there's the guys that don't want to run, but you're the right guy for the job, right? Okay. Iran needs to get behind somebody to rally to change the flipping climate that's in Iran. FYI, if Iranians are watching this, you only have three and a half years left. That's it.

You have three and a half years under him, Trump. He's not going to do the job for you guys. He said it on the podcast. But the climate is ripe right now that if you guys do your part and you get behind somebody and somebody with courage That's willing to come and do something in Iran. You guys have a fighting chance right now, maybe You haven't had a chance like this. You had a couple in the last 15 20 years This is a chance for somebody in Iran to step up a voice or for you to rally behind To say we want things to change

President is not gonna do it for you. Trump's not gonna do it for you. Nobody else is gonna do or for you to rally behind to say we want things to change. President's not going to do it for you. Trump's not going to do it for you. Nobody else is going to do it for you. It has to be internal. If you get close to the finish line, then somebody can help you. But you have to show that you're getting close to the finish line. Nobody else is going to do that part. You've got to go that close to it.

Then if you do, then the other person's going to be like, great, it shows that you're interested. It shows that you're committed to it. It shows you do, then the other person's going to be like, great, it shows that you're interested. It shows that you're committed to it. It shows you're willing to go through the pain. But I think if Iran, similar story for me with China, the reason why I'm supported with the tariffs stuff that we're doing right now is because I know somebody else has to deal with the tariffs with China in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. You're not going to have another guy like Trump in a while. You're not.

You got one right now. And it's not, hey, come cause a war. No, why don't you guys do something there to want to change the revolution? Get up there again, start making some noise. This is the time for Iranians to want to do it. I don't say it's an easy thing. I'm not sitting here saying, hey, how come you're not thinking about the livelihood of our families and all this other stuff?

I don't say it's going to be easy. All I'm saying to you is if you want Iran to change. So when we think about the Middle East pre-79, the Middle East was pretty peaceful. They didn't have a lot of issues in the Middle East pre-79. Khomeini coming in. Ever since 79, Khomeini came in. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard came in. The Middle East has been in shambles.

Not Iran. The Middle East has been in shambles since 79. It's been 46 years now. What if some of the folks out there start rallying behind some names? We'd love to know some of these names. Right now if I told you who's the voice, who would you say? We don't have a lot of names. Who is it?

Who's going out there? Who's holding meetings? Who's going across out there at Dubai holding meetings with a lot of different leaderships coming through? Who's doing that? I don't know. I don't think a lot of it's happening coming through. Who's doing that? I don't know. I don't think a lot of it's happening or else the rest of the world will be talking about it.

But I think Iran has a chance to do something with it right now. And this discussion, I think at any point, if the speculation is that these guys, Israel, is hoping to kind of like set it up for us to attack, at any point something can happen there. And I don't think it's going to be, we're trying to negotiate a nuclear deal. I don't think so. That's my opinion I may be wrong. That's where I'm at I mean great, but it's just and I and again we talked about it what two podcasts ago It's about the people and everybody's always talking about we talked about we criticize Israel criticize Iran

It's not the people that are living there. It's the government So for when you're saying like for people to step up, that's a really dangerous thing. Imagine going against that government, but I think it's a necessary thing. Easier said than done because we're here and you guys are over there, but it has to happen. Okay, dude, my mom and dad are from Iran. You guys already know how we feel about you guys, but somebody, a movement movement something has to spark or else It's never gonna change and what a great freaking point this bull that's in this matador Trump He's who knows what's after him

But right now right now is a thing and I just pray to God that you know you guys have the support and it'll come But you guys have to step it up to be nasty though Yeah, oh, it's gonna be ugly you probably have to lose one or two or more people. Oh for sure. I'm looking at Navalny in Russia. I mean they lose them every day. They lose them every day. Last night I had Giselle Sharmad on. Her father was stolen, falsely convicted, tortured, executed. Biden couldn't get him back. Trump couldn't, wasn't, you know, wasn't here. And they then sent the body back. His tongue was cut out. Parts of him are missing. These are terrorists. Okay. So to Pat's point, can't be trusted. I will say that political payback is sometimes gratuitous. Leaving that deal was a mistake. It was all you had. And now you'll be lucky to

get a deal that looks like that. To your point, it probably won't be a deal at all. You don't know any names because they'd be dead. That's why you don't know any names about who may be bubbling up to have a populist revolt because this is an oppressive regime. I don't know what the answer is. Israel needs American support because they don't have the munitions that we call those bunker busters to go deep enough to get where it has to go. America has them.

So we would be involved militarily on it. If you keep them from getting a nuke now, do you keep them from getting a nuke forever? No, there has to be regime change there. And I don't think we know what to do. I don't think Trump knows what to do. I think talking can't hurt, but to your point, they can't be trusted.

No way, No way. No. I mean, look, I put Iran and China in the same place. I put Iran and China in the same place. We had Richard Warner the other day and he's talking about the fact that, you know, Deng Xiaoping, who was a guy back in the day, so was a pragmatist, he went to Japan and said, hey, I know we don't have the best relationship right now. How did you kind of fix your economy? And he says, hey, we got 5,000 banks, 5 million loan officers doing 35 loan applications per week. What do you call it? Deng comes back, starts working on the banks, the economy changes, everything changes.

Xi is not Deng. Deng is willing to go talk. Xi is not that guy. If Xi wants to do something with the US, Xi would have come to the US, sit down and have a conversation with. If we get that meeting taking place, okay, then maybe sentiment changes, situation changes. But hey, if I'm Trump, you know what else I'm doing? You want to kind of fix the tariff? Allow all our social media companies into China. Why are you worried about it? Allow our social media companies into China. Allow

Facebook, Google, YouTube. Allow all of us in China. Why are you worried? Let's kind of make this thing work. It's not going to be happening. So the way they're negotiating, there's a lot that can be done, but we'll see what's going to happen. I'd rather deal with China than Iran. Yeah, me too. Iran has absolutely no upside to the world. No, China doesn't say death upon America. China just doesn't like the Western ideas that we have and they're still clinging on to communism.

And the sanctions squeeze the people. That's the one problem with the sanctions is you squeeze the people. Life becomes horrible for the people that you want to help. Yes. It's hard to do. It's hard to do the right way. Anyways, great podcast. I'm glad we did this. This was actually fantastic. It was great to have both of you guys on as well and We learned something today. Well, I had no clue Chris was a big advocate of IDs. Honestly had no clue

I did not think he was gonna become a spokesperson for real IDs Kristi No, you have somebody here that you may want to reach out to Chris almost Notice how he waited Steve Bennett is my spirit animal I brought him a T-shirt. Notice how he waited. I brought you a T-shirt. He funded it. What does it say? Steve Bannon is my spirit animal. He's just coming around. You're on your way. I'll tell you what, this is a trade-up from, I took my family on safari and everybody picked

a spirit animal and there's this stupid little antelope called a dick dick and I let my kids name my spirit animal and they said you're the dick dick. That's so funny. What is it called? A dick dick. A dick dick. You're serious. That was a rough day. So this is a big step up. It's a big come up. Well they run 26 miles an hour that's pretty fast. You know what it reminded me of? The movie couple's retreat where he's giving everybody the spirit animal and he says for you he says tiger, lion, what do you have? An ass. You are stubborn, you're loyal, I'm going to be the best ass I can be.

Vince Fons the best. Anyways, it was great. Rob, Gang, if you want to come to us Thursday night, remember, go to BoardroomCigarLounge.com. We're going to put the link below as well. We'll be there together Thursday night, 7 to 9 pm, and then afterwards VIPs, you'll come to the cigar lounge. For those of you guys that come at 6 o'clock, the bar will be open and you'll get tours at the cigar lounge for some of you guys that want to become members.

Obviously, there's an application and background check process and nobody can have a phone in the cigar lounge, but you get a private tour. And Rob, let's also put the link to Eric Bowling's show and Chris' show below for those that want to go check them out. Eric Bowling, we'll put the link to, is this the one? Well, you can go to ericbowling.com or, you know. Why don't you just put ericbowling.com. We're also both on Manect.

Oh yeah, we're on Manect. Are you? Really? I know you are. You're on Manect now? Just signed up. Perfect. Ask Eric any questions you may have on Manect. Rob, if you got his QR code, do you have it?

I don't have that. Okay, just go on Manect, search his name. Rob, put the link at the top for them to ask any questions. Look at those studs. Look at those handsome devils. By the way, 420 on Thursday, huh? You did that day on purpose? Well, I wasn't gonna say it publicly.

Yeah. But I commit. It's a cigar lounge, Eric. What's in those cigars? What's a cigar lounge? Yeah that day on purpose. Well, I wasn't gonna say it publicly. Yeah I'm willing to bet here. Nobody knows more about 420 than Tom. else. Tom is a Rastafarian. history before he became a Christian man. Tom was uh the the movie uh Cheech and Chong was based on Tom's it was a documentary on Tom.. You can't be Christian and like a little bit of the Yerba. But if it's like the organic stuff without anything being added to it. Sort of the weed sommelier of the 80s. What was Jesus doing those 40 days?

Cheech, Chong and Tom. How do we connect with God? And Dictic. But anyways, take care everybody. Have a good one. Bye bye.