PBD Podcast - USAID Corruption & Brazil's Elections w/ Nikolas Ferreira & Mike Benz | PBD Podcast | Ep. 550

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Patrick Bet-David sits down with Nikolas Ferreira and Mike Benz to dissect the deep connections between USAID, Brazilian corruption, and the political battle between Lula and Bolsonaro. Ferreira, one of Brazil’s most outspoken conservative voices, exposes how foreign influence and NGOs may be shaping Brazil’s political landscape, while Benz, an expert in geopolitical strategy, unpacks the hidden power dynamics between Washington and Latin America. -------👕 PURCHASE THE VT BRAZIL COLLECTION: https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l🖥️ REGISTER FOR THE MINNECT CIRCLES ECONOMY: ⁠https://bit.ly/4hVTkPK⁠📺 VOTE ON TRUMP'S FIRST 100 DAYS:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4gXLioq⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY":⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📰 VTNEWS.AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!ABOUT US:Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

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stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Okay, we were gonna go pre-recorded with this today. We decided to go live because we have two of the most important voices in the world today. One of them happens to be Alexandre de Morales' best friend Mike Benz who is in the house today. For whatever reason, these two guys just really like each other. He always picks on them.

And there's a lot that's gonna be exposed today. Mike said he's got material he's going to be sharing. He's never shared before. And if you know Mike, we've had him on. We were on it together what, three, four, five months ago. And him talking about USAID, all these other conversations that's been had. And when I was with the president of Brazil, we showed a clip of his. The president reacted to it.

There's a lot of people in Brazil right now watching to see what he has to say. Some of the stories having to do with CIA possibly being involved with the coup and even pulling Bolsonaro aside, saying hey, you better kind of play along with us, Lloyd Austin and others, or else, but I'll let him explain it to you. He knows it better than I do. And the other one is, maybe, not even maybe,

I can say he is the biggest superstar in all of Brazil. If you go to Brazil with him, you cannot walk the streets without people stopping him. We're in Brazil together eating pizza at this one place, I want to say four days ago, five days ago, this was just a few days ago, called Inferno. And while we're going there, we're having dinner, left and right, everybody gets excited to see the face of Nicolas Ferreira. I want to say the proper way, Nicolas Ferreira. Yeah, it's fun.

Who's got these two books as well. We're going to put the links below if there is, Rob, if you can find the links to these books. One of them is a parenting book, right? And the other one is about… Politicians and Christians. Right. So both of them are going to be there as well by Nicolas.

It's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you, Patrick. For me, it's an honor. Thank you so much. Mike, so both of them are gonna be there as well. Bye, Nicolas, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you, Patrick, for me it's an honor. Thank you so much. Mike, how you doing? Never been better. That's good, I'm excited for that. By the way, initially it was just supposed to be us, okay? Then I said, if we're gonna have you on,

we may as well also have Mike on because I want the Brazilian people, I want people around the world, Americans, Brazilian to see this because Americans get a chance to see you, Brazilians get a chance to hear from Mike directly. Both audiences need to learn about each other and what's going on with Brazil. And we were at CPAC a couple days ago, two days ago. Eduardo Bolsonaro was there, he had a chance to speak. There was a lot of talks about Brazil and then while we're there leaving

I kind of want a little bit of feedback from you here an hour after we are done with the interview with Jair Bolsonaro We're sitting there. Hey 38 years cool Poisoning Lula you're seeing all that stuff being talked about. What can you tell us about what's going on there? So first of all for me is an honor to be here. Mike, thank you for what you're doing for Brazil. I talk about politics day by day in Brazil, but in Portuguese. So if I make any mistake here, I'm sorry, I'm trying to improve my English. If I make any mistake, okay. So what's happening in Brazil?

We have a Supreme Court. We are fighting against tyranny, censorship, especially from Alexandre de Moraes. And they tried to silence the greatest leader of the right conservative wing in Brazil, that is Jair Bolsonaro. They say that he tried to kill Lula and the vice president, but we know that the only one, the one candidate of presidential elections was Jays Bolsonaro.

He was stabbed in his belly by a ex-socialist affiliated party. And now they are trying to put in Miguel for a fantasy coup. He was here in US when happened the 8th of January, people entering the Congress, it was a bad day for Brazil. But they are not any terrorists, they did of course some small crimes, but they are getting 17 years of jail.

Like any other corrupted guy in Brazil, they get this for jail in Brazil, for corruption, for robbery robbery for anything So we know that they are doing this for to these people because they were wearing Green and yellow t-shirts if they were using red red in Brazil is for the labor sparring for the social If they were using red Maybe red they would be they were using red, maybe red, they would be free right now. So they are persecuting us for everything we say. Like for now I'm being sued because I said that Lula is a thief and he should be in jail.

So we are facing a tyranny in Brazil. Can you say that right now? So the fact that you're saying he's a thief and he should be in jail, you flying back to Brazil, is there any risk for you that anything could happen or no? Yes, of course. I've been sued criminal for saying that. Me as a deputy, I can say everything and as all the Brazilians should say, no, but we are not able to say the truth in Brazil.

Now your story for some people that don't know, Rob, if you can pull up the clip, you were telling me this when we were together, is this is you at 17 years old, right? This is a school where, I think it's called PUC, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, it's a Catholic university. And this is how it went viral. By the way, just so everybody knows, Nicholas has got 17 plus million followers just on Instagram. He posts a clip on Instagram, it gets a million likes, not even a million views.

This guy's the biggest sensation there. While we're there walking around, everyone's saying he will be the president in the next eight years, and the people want him to become the president in eight years, but explain to us what happens here, because this is where people learn about you. You're 17 years old in this clip. Yeah, so just to let you happens to you, because this is where people learn about you. You're 17 years old in this clip.

Yeah, so just to let you know guys, I came from a very poor neighborhood in Brazil called Cabana. I don't have any politicians in my family. I think I was the first crazy one to enter in politics. And I am graduated in law by the Catholic University. And at the time of 2015, 2016, there was an impeachment in Brazil that we took out Dilma's ex-president. And then everyone went to the streets to go to the protests.

And then, of course, me as a young guy, I did the same. But I started to post some videos on the internet and started to go viral. This one is the first one. In that stage, there was a lot of socialist leaders. And then I was working at my office and I heard that one guy called Leonardo Boff, it's a guy that he, how can I say that? He put the socialism in the church, in the churches, the Catholic churches in Brazil. And then I heard that he wasn't there, I said, I gotta say something right to his face.

But as a student, I couldn't. So I told a girl to come over and I said, I'm a huge fan of him. Please let me talk. and then she said okay you're a student okay go there of course she thought that I was a leftist and then I said I began saying thank you so much thank you so much because of you I'm not socialist and pa pa pa and I started to punch him with my words of course. And then it went viral and this was my first video that went viral because I was only 17, 18 years old. I was entering in the law, in the law. So the school you're going to, is that like the compare, is this a liberal school? Is this a far

left school or no? Yeah, so it is but it shouldn't because it's a catholic university but it shouldn't, because it's a Catholic university, but it's a very liberal university. Rob, can you play that clip while he's, I mean, we're not gonna do somebody's end, I just want the audience to see when he walks up. I'm so skinned. Can you play that? That's him.

So you're thanking him right now. I'm appreciating Leonel and the both. I'm saying thank you because you made me choose a side in my life. You made two interviews in 2003 saying that your theology is not necessary Christian, and the second interview that he said that communism was the worst thing in the world. A person said that and he said that it was wrong. So how I know that how left is a hypocrite? You're saying this to his face?

Yeah, I'm saying through his face. You can pause it right here, Ross. So you play this clip, this goes out. Is this the first time Brazil learned about you? Like prior to this, they don't know who you are? Yeah, I think it was the first time. First time. They didn't know who I was.

And at this point, do you have any aspirations of getting into politics or not yet? No, I was only into the protests, making some videos, and I wasn't running for anything. I was just 18 years old. I couldn't even run for city councilor. You have to be 21. Got it. So, I mean, obviously from there to now

with what's going on with Brazil, Mike, for you, when you started talking about, I think it was the clip that we played in the interview with Steve Bannon, where you're explaining the fact that, you know, what really is taking place in Brazil, the powers behind it, and I think even when you were with Joe, on Joe's, you explained the fact that they went to tell him Bolsonaro. I'll let you tell the story. What is the exchange with how the US was involved with the elections in Brazil? Well, are you referring to when you say they went to tell Bolsonaro, are you referring

to the CIA Director Lloyd Austin? Yes. I actually can pull that up on screen if you go to the slide deck, it'll be slides, starting on slide 12, I can walk you through that. Go for it, Rob, if you can go through that right there. So this is the US State Department. Yeah, if you can pull the screen. Go to the slideshow, just press view slideshow,

there you go. So, and we'll go through this line by line here, but the US State Department called in massive favors and leveraged personal connections to build voting machines for Lula-aligned Brazil officials, and then the CIA warned Bolsonaro not to mess with or cast doubt on all the new US State Department secured voting machines determining his election.

And if you go to the next slide, I'll walk through this. So, this is from the Financial Times, this piece is basically about, in fact, if you go to the slide after this first, what they say is this was a concerted but unannounced, so this was basically a covert action by the Biden White House, the Biden Pentagon, the Biden CIA and the Biden State Department

to fortify Brazil's election. So if you go back to the other one, the slide before, so the US provided practical help in the election process to obtain components, especially semiconductors, needed to manufacture the new voting machines. The former US ambassador to Brazil, so they are using shadow diplomacy here because they don't want their formal

US State Department fingerprints on it. the former US ambassador to Brazil. So they are using shadow diplomacy here because they don't want their formal US State Department fingerprints on it. They're going to, the former US ambassador in Brazil to leverage his personal connections with Taiwan, with Taiwan Semiconductor, and to leverage those connections, I'm sorry, inside of the Texas, Texas Instruments to distinguish semiconductor needs and give priority. Now we have a semiconductor shortage here in the US.

They are diverting semiconductor chips for the US needs and sending them to Brazil, a foreign country, to add voting machines that the democratically elected president of Brazil doesn't want. The US State Department and some senior Brazilian officials also asked Taiwanese authorities to give priority to Brazil's need for semiconductors Which are used in the voting machines and then if you go to the next slides here

Yeah, so then I say what's funny is both the 1964 military hunter in Brazil in the 2022 judicial hunter in Brazil received direct help from the CIA to rise to power and then if you if you go to the next One you'll see CIA chief, this is Reuters, told Bolsonaro government not to mess with Brazil election. This is in May 2022. 64 schools, are you talking about the Sam, what is it? Brother Sam?

Brother Sam? Yeah, yeah, but I wanna just kinda close the loop on this because if you go to the next one, next slide, yeah. So Bill Burns makes a personal voyage. This is months before the election even happens. We are now force feeding Brazil electronic voting machines the elected president doesn't even want in the country. And so the State Department is doing that.

Then we send in our covert action boys, the CIA, to say, don't you cast doubt. Look at the language told Brazilian senior officials that President Bolsonaro should stop casting doubt on his country's voting system. It's not even his country's voting system. We sent the semiconductor chips to build that because Brazil didn't want them themselves.

So we're putting machines in there and then telling them don't question the results of these machines. So go to the next one. So then, this is Austin's foreign policy. A month after Bill Burns, it was the Pentagon secretary, Lloyd Austin's turn, to go down to Brazil and push the chief of the Brazilian Armed forces to commit to actually do a pledge

Go to the next slide Brazil manifesto seek to rein in Bolsonaro before election This is before the election in a July conference with regional defense ministers So we are personally paying as US taxpayers for the head of the Central Intelligence Agency to go down there. We are suffering under a chip shortage and we are getting that diverted so that electronic voting machines can go down. Then we are paying for the flights of the CIA director to go down and warn them not to cast doubt on the machines that they couldn't build without us and that the president didn't

want. So this was, and actually let me show you something else here as well. Mike, the question here before we go to the next thing, why are they doing this? Well, why do they care? So my focus on this is on the internet censorship side. This is, I did not, I love the people of Brazil. I love Brazilian Zouk dancing. I've always been around Brazilian people. I don't speak Portuguese. But I did not really, I didn't seek this out.

This was something that was an unavoidable, inescapable reality of the US censorship work that I was focused on. It was a recurring fact since Trump won the election in 2016, and as soon as Bolsonaro started gaining traction in Brazil that these issues were interlinked that they wanted to stop Bolsonaro for the same reasons they wanted to stop Donald Trump. I have that much a Hundred percent there are other issues, you know, so I have this big Unpublished report that I'm just showing you some some things from here

Tonight, but that'll be published sometime in the next several months this big unpublished report that I'm just showing you some things from here tonight, but that'll be published sometime in the next several months. There is the open question, so the technical reason they said they did it is because Bolsonaro is a threat to democracy. Who's they, the CIA and Biden? The CIA, Biden, State Department, USAID, the NGO swarm. We have this concept called democracy promotion programs,

which is this idea that if something is categorized as an authoritarian threat or it leads to illiberal democracy without sufficient democratic institutional safeguards, we deputize our democracy promotion programs to basically overturn their governments, to do regime change operations, to institute judicial reforms in the country, to control their prosecutors, their judges, their universities, their unions, their media ecosystems, in order to manage their democracy.

And when something gets categorized as a threat to democracy, in order to manage their democracy. And when something gets categorized as a threat to democracy, that's a technical term that unleashes the capabilities of our regime change apparatus. Now they did that to Trump, they did that to Bolsonaro, there are, but whenever something's deemed a threat to democracy, there's always something else behind it, right?

In Trump's case, it was very obvious that Trump's policy about Eurasia was the primary reason that they ran all of the coup-like actions against him, from the multiple impeachments to the 91 felonies, to the special prosecutors probe, the Bob Mueller two and a half year FBI special prosecutors, to the whirlwind of state-funded media and intelligence six ways from Sunday's things against him. There were other things that Trump did that flew in the face of the interests of international corporations and banks and foundations and NGOs, that one was the primary one in my view.

In the Bolsonaro story, they, since my primary focus is on internet censorship, it's very easy for me to tell that story and I can walk you through that whole thing. But in terms of the why they did it, again, technically, all they need to say is threat to democracy. But there are always interests underneath that. And there are many threads.

There is a sort of murder mystery whodunit. There are many financial interests in Brazil. There are many US multinational corporations of interest there. There are international interests around China and the relationship between China and the Biden administration. There's the connection with the unions and many of the union groups. And there's several others, and this is actually why I'm happy to sit in and sort of play second chair to Nicholas because I have my own questions around

because I have my own questions around the specifics of who financially benefit from any of these things. Because for example, Lula connected his whole government to China, and he was very open about that. This is the sort of thing that the State Department and the CIA and USAID typically run operations to stop. And yet you had this very strange situation where we ran these operations to install it. You know, just this Chinese influence in Brazil.

And when you look at the Biden family relationship with the Chinese stakeholders, you look at the Hunter Biden, you know, $10 million basically windfall from from chinese clients first consulting company and partnerships with chinese energy companies you see this this recurring pattern with with the biden administration i don't have though since everything i do is open source i don't have any confessions from people in the okay so can i just can i just unpack what i think you're saying and then tell me if that's kind of what you're saying and then I'm

Nicholas I'm gonna come to you next. So are you saying hypothetically to the average person not somebody that's Mike Benz caliber this is your world deputy you know you're in working with the State Department you're in the world internet you're rounded you this is your world that you study. To the average person, you're saying China potentially used Biden as a favor to make sure Bolsonaro doesn't get in the way because under Lula, they're able to buy and get more resources and things that they want there and Bolsonaro gets in the way. So hey, US, we'll stay quiet and we won't do anything with you, we'll keep doing business with you, but we need a favor from you.

We need to make sure you go out there and do whatever you can for Bolsonaro to stop talking about the voting system and rig it if you can, make sure he doesn't win so we can put Lula in because Lula's going to play game with us, play ball with us. With China, we can get in and do whatever we want to do. Is that kind of what you're insinuating I don't know that the there are things that keep coming up in my research about it that that I find highly disturbing and I would not be able to get without the subpoena power of Congress and it is it is my opinion that at the end of this process and once the report that I'm

working on is published and all this is you know can be just the old the whole timeline chronology network map funding flows cast of characters all that it's my belief that that it would be beneficial for the American people to understand to have an autopsy of the rogue activity of their own government for any of the oversight bodies that we currently have set up whether that is the weaponization subcommittee of Jim Jordan, whether that's the House Foreign Affairs or Senate Foreign Affairs committees, whether that is declassifying federal secrets, frankly, from covert actions involved in this,

is there any number of subpoenaed power equipped courts, congressional committees that could probe those questions, most immediately, what comes up most frequently publicly in this and what they talk about is this international exchange of ideas between Trumpism and Bolsonaroism. And that's a very simple one to understand, right, which is just the raw political calculus of, you get rid of Bolsonaro, you get rid of Trump, you get rid of the, and this is a direct quote, you get rid of Trump, you get rid of the,

and this is a direct quote, the international exchange of ideas. You can actually go to my foundation's website, it's foundationforfreedomonline.com. If you put Brazil into the search at the top, you'll see, oh yeah, one word, yep, yep. Then you just put Brazil on the top, and you'll see a report that I published

two, a little over two years ago. If you, yeah, yeah, US tax dollars funding text message censorship in Brazil. Published this in July 2022, so just in time for the CIA director to descend on Brazil. And you'll see, we, US taxpayers, paid to get the censorship state installed in Brazil.

If you're supposed to, US taxpayers? Yes, yes, because these are all, this is all USAID and NED and the NGOs that are all in Brazil. In Brazil, private texts to family and friends are fast becoming a, as targeted by counter disinformation techniques as public facing posts on social media.

This escalation of fact checkers interventions and sharing limits on text has been introduced through new speech constraints on popular encrypted apps such as WhatsApp, Telegram and Rob can you go a little bit higher so I can read the last sentence. These developments are being funded by millions of dollars in US tax. Nicolas, did you feel this and did you see this happen in Brazil? Yes, of course. Our superior electoral court, they made a lot of decisions that was bad for Bolsonaro.

For example, when Alexandre de Moraes announced that Lula won in the superior court, there was another judge called Benedito da Silva. He just went through him and said mission given, mission accomplished. You have that clip by the way. Until now this judge didn't came to public to say what I mean was that. He didn't say that. So it was very strange. There is another judge in Brazil called Barroso that after the elections that Bolsonaro lost

He said we defeated Bolsonaroism Yeah, one drop late. Yeah, this is the video Jesus is a lancers Sure minister Ricardo Lewandowski The minister benedicto gonzales solicit o que conduz a plenario I, Minister Benedito Gonçalves, ask that you lead to the plenary the most excellent Mr. President of the Federal Republic of Brazil elected Luiz Inácio Lula Nascimento. accomplished. So what he means about that? Mission given, mission accomplished. So he was working against Bolsonaro. So he's a judge. He should be impartial.

So this is one judge. It's the same, you can stop the video right there. This is the same judge that said that this is Lula and after that he's receiving I don't know how you say this in english, but he's giving some taps in his face as he was his best friend So this is the kind of judge that's saying that bolsonaro is attorney. He is a people he is a person that he's He's giving misinformation to brazil But at this point because and there's a lot of telegram groups that you're a part of, right?

That the communities are talking to each other. Are you seeing what you can and can't do? Yeah, for example, I think that in other social medias, it was more, how can I say, it was clear to me that something wasn't coming to me. So there was some information that if you Google it for example you would you would find There are some others information that you try to find and it was harder to find so for example in the elections you couldn't say that Lula was

Had Maduro as a friend you couldn't say that you couldn't say that Lula was friend of the Nia Ortega from Nicaragua, so you couldn't say that you couldn't say that Lula Was supported abortion for example. I had I was sued I was a muta I Was fined for like 3,000 reels just because I made a video saying that Lula was supporting abortion, was supporting drugs, and I was fined because of that. So there's another minister of the Supreme Court called Jumar Mendes that he gave an interview like maybe six months ago that he said that Lula is in presidents because of

them. Any other country that gives politics seriously, it would be a scandal. But in Brazil, it's normal because the Supreme Court of Brazil is not more a judiciary power, it's a political power. So in the elections, for example, Bolsonaro, in our Independence Day, on the 7th of September, he had a huge protest, like 2 million people in Brasília, in São Paulo, and then he couldn't use these images for his network. He couldn't use. It was crazy. Just to show how many people were in attendance, you guys couldn't show.

He couldn't show that on TV. And for example, in the Labor Party, was saying that Bolsonaro was a Hannibal. They were saying that Bolsonaro was a pedophile. They were saying that Bolsonaro would ended up the the ferias, the holidays for the for the workers. So it was all that kind of disinformation, and anything happened with Lula and his friends. For Bolsonaro, anyone that, for example,

questioned the voting system would be fined. My social media was down for one month because I just questioned the voting electronic machines. So my lawyer doesn't have access to the process. My social media just went bad because of political pressure but not a judiciary process. So that would happen in 2022. We all thought that of course course, there was an interference in Brazil, but we didn't know where did it come,

how they did that, but now it's clear that, as Mike said, that if it wasn't USAD, maybe Bolsonaro, or sure Bolsonaro would be the president of Brazil today. Now, Mike, let me ask you, as you're processing what he's saying. When I was with the president, I asked him, so for example, what can U.S. do under Trump? Because we saw that Lula's popularity when he was done being president after the eight

years he was in from 2003 to 2011, he left with a popularity of 80%, 81%. It was very high. And then he goes and does his time You know his wife has the stroke. She passes away. He gets 12 years Alessandra de Moraes comes in takes him out Bolsonaro wins in 2018 and then they bring him out to make sure he beats You know Bolsonaro and boom the rest is history But I asked him the question I said so now Rulo's popularity went from 80% to 24%. The lowest it's ever been in Brazil.

It's not a good thing. Brazilians don't like this guy. Coffee is expensive. Everything is expensive right now and they're going through it. What is the opposite of what CIA did to Hurt? Meaning, so now how does Alexandre de Moraes or X, which now I think they banned Trump's network and now Rumble and Trump's network are suing Brazil, and while Lula's there, Alexandre's there, what can the U.S. do?

It doesn't look like this guy's afraid of anybody. It doesn't look like this guy, de Moraes, is afraid of anybody in the states. Do you think things can change in any way where Bolsonaro could run and win in 2026? Yes, if the US is serious about applying diplomatic diplomatic resources on the issue. There are many ways that that can be done. Not sure this is the most appropriate forum for discussing them, but, and there are actually two open threads that I did want to get to from what Nicholas just said, but the short answer is,

there are many things that the US can do if the US ambassador is serious, if the president is serious, if Marco Rubio is serious, yes, much can be done. I'll leave it there. I think what you need is policy alignment and then the appropriate organs to mobilize.

Policy alignment where? Amongst Bolsonaro and US? Well, you're going to need to synchronize all the different facets of US foreign policy. That can be done. No, let's stay on that. I'm curious. What does that mean? I want to know what that means. You know, because for me, you're dealing

with a country that out of their 11 Supreme Courts only two are conservative. You're dealing with a country that out of their 81 Senate only 22 are conservative. You're dealing with a country that out of 513 congressmen and women only 130 are conservative When you look at Bukele Brandon you were telling me earlier the fact that Bukele the way he did it in advance Yeah, he kind of set up his Congress before he became president So he had everybody in his favor the majority so he looks like a dictator But he just happens to have everybody on his side So he does no resistance and a real beautiful setup for what he wanted to do with his policies

And that's a beautiful thing because he can just go in and say, here's what we want to do, right? In this case, this is a very different situation that he has. So if US can't go and say, well, what do we do with the Supreme Court? What do we do with Senate? What do we do with that? That's a longer term play. To me, short term between now and 2026. What can us really do?

Just doesn't feel appropriate. I'm just gonna say it. I don't I don't think that this is the forum to but I'm happy to listen to you guys talk about it. It's just Yeah. It sounds so interesting. Yeah, one thing I can say is all resilience, Mike all resilience. We are hopefully that this guy pays for what he's doing. Because what we think, what we feel day by day is that he's the law and anyone can put him in his place.

And he's just... Dobrão da posta? He's just doubling down. know he doesn't quick never so I agree with Mike it's difficult to say what US should do with a judge a supreme federal court judge but we all hope that he pays for what he's doing because he's doing very bad things with people. We didn't talk about the 8th of January yet, but there are a lot of innocents. They are still in jail.

There are 17 years of jail. And he doesn't quit. He's just doing this because he hates the right wing, hates the conservatives, and the most, he hates Bolsonaro They want to put him in jail for a fantasy coup. So We want to see like this guy in pain for for for justice, you know Mike damn bunch, you know got a job today Is it the McDonald's job from Right Is it the McDonald's job from? Right

When are you getting a job because it almost seems like you're applying It almost seems like what you're saying that my read on what you just did right now is hey The right person you are a right person You have a way of doing it. You could be the one helping out Are you one either in talks or two if you're not are you open if they were to offer you something? Well what I was getting into there was about you know and one of the reasons I want to circle back to some of the things That we were just talking about and play some of these things for for for the world to see here is that

We like I mentioned congressional committees on this who have subpoena power who can do transcribed interviews of all the officials involved of subpoena power, who can do transcribed interviews of all the officials involved, who can use the power of the purse to slash budgets, who can do public hearings and put this all out, and prosecutors in the US who can take appropriate action to the extent that there's criminal wrongdoing. There is, right now, agency by agency, the people at the top of the perch There is right now agency by agency,

the people at the top of the perch have been the people who have been punished by the system. RFK is at the head of HHS. Cash at the, and now Dan Bongino at the top of FBI. Time and time again we've seen this, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya at the top of NIH, I think that there is an American interest in pursuing this and the weaponization of the foreign policy establishment

and its covert and overt capabilities and its NGO capabilities to go after Bolsonaro as a way of going after Donald Trump. And so I mentioned this phrase, stopping the international exchange of ideas after Bolsonaro as a way of going after Donald Trump. And so I mentioned this phrase stopping the international exchange of ideas between Trumpism and Bolsonaroism. So on that piece that I pulled up

before, the Foundation for Freedom Online Brazil report, you'll actually see that's a direct quote. I think actually just, if you scroll down or just run a Control-F for exchange, you'll see this. We'll just, yeah, there you go. So this is funded by the US here. This is the, if you scroll down, this is a US taxpayer, so what this is,

if you click this video, this is a presentation to IFES, which is a USAID partner and implementer. This is an international idea. This is attached to the National Endowment for Democracy and USAID, and it's basically election management in foreign countries. And you'll see here, our US taxpayers paying international idea, they get all their money

from Congress through a State Department contribution. So this was back in 2021, 2022, and if you just play this, you'll see what the thought process was ahead of Brazil's election for how our own NGOs were weaponized to go after Trump by going after Bolsonaro. Well, okay, do you have an ad there?

There's two more seconds left, so Rob, if you wanna. I think there's two ads. Okay, gosh. Yeah, we'll go Through both of them. Your words of wisdom on how we can build up society's defenses against this information and more specifically on which measures have proven most effective. This is international idea. This is this is our issue. I would address. So the question is how society can enhance the ability to detect and resist the fake news and false facts. This is a picture of really recent research we did.

So here he is presenting. This is hosted by us, U.S. taxpayers. And this is, I published this years ago, right? I published this two and a half years ago at this point. Similar keywords on the Brazilian and US populist right on parlor. And you'll see it's Trump, election fraud irregularities, the very things that people in Brazil were prosecuted or banned from being able to talk about, they grafted off of the model of something that was done here in the US ahead of the 2020 election when DHS partnered with groups like EIP, the

Atlantic Council, Grafica, two of our universities, to censor Americans' ability to talk about election voting machines. And then we systematically trained the Brazilian judges to do the same to stop Bolsonaro. And I can walk you through that whole process, but this is just from things of our pressure if you let it play you'll see how basically this is our taxpayer funded NGOs and CIA cutouts working with here a you know Brazilian professor effectively on how to co-strategize to stop the international exchange of ideas between Trump and Bolsonaro. Trump from Paula. And we got the narratives in this course that have been used during the end of the year, at the beginning of the year, just after the Biden election and before they got in office.

And the extreme right used mostly these kind of words to sustain the research and strategy to harm democracy and put questions and doubts about the results of the elections in the West. That's the crime. What we put in the red square is the same ideas and words we have been using, of course, in Portuguese in you can get in from our political discussion and social networks from the civil rights. So certain rights in Brazil is important as well, and get the same message and translated in Portuguese and put in the boundaries of our culture. But basically they are reproducing the same narrative, the same discourse.

And if you get information, the same information from social networks like Parler from Europeans, you get mostly the same kind of words like fraud, stop fraud, suppression, irregularities, and so forth. So that's what I'm saying, that it's not only an engineer that goes through different platforms, but also it's an international movement to exchange ideas that harms the market. I got this Mike, go for it. So this makes sense. So these words are the words that they're both worried about. Yeah, we exported our censorship models when they started to work against Trump. We exported them to Brazil, we exported them to Europe, we're exporting them to Australia, as part of a State Department USAID push to control the information space in every country on Earth. So the reason, for example, this that I published

was about the US taxpayers funding the censorship of encrypted chat apps like WhatsApp and Telegram. This was because we had already moved into Brazil to censor social media. This is why Brazilians were one of the first people to come to Gab and some of the other alternative, and Parler and these other platforms.

But, you know, on this point, you mentioned, Barroso, am I saying that correctly? So if you go to slide 23. Barroso. Yes. Yes, so this is NDI. NDI is the DNC branch, it's the CIA wing of the DNC. NDI is the Democrat party wing of the National Endowment for Democracy. The National Endowment for Democracy is the premier CIA cutout of our tens of thousands around the world. It's a big umbrella one.

It was created in 1983. It was conceived in the office of the CIA director, William Casey. The CIA had gotten in a lot of trouble just a few years earlier when the heart attack gun was held up in front of Congress. The Democrats hated the CIA. Ronald Reagan wanted back.

They couldn't get that approved. They couldn't get the powers back because Democrats controlled the lower house of Congress. And so they came up with an idea to create the National Endowment for Democracy to have an outside NGO funded by the State Department where all the grants are reviewed by the CIA, go out and be the operations arm, basically a plausible deniability layer for the CIA the same way the CIA provides that plausible deniability layer for the State Department. They have four core force Iri, which is the Republican branch of the CIA of the NED?

It's the International Republican Institute. It's founded by John McCain who ran for president and in 2008 The Republican nominee on its board are people like Mitt Romney who ran for president and in 2012 Basically until Trump you had to be IRI if you wanted to run for president in the Republican Party. On the Democrat side, it's called the other political core for is called NDI, the National Democratic Institute, who was, you know, Hunter Biden, for example, is on the Chairman's Advisory Board of the NDI,

if you've ever heard me talking about the wonderful CIA world of Hunter Biden, for example, is on the Chairman's Advisory Board of the NDI, if you've ever heard me talking about the wonderful CIA world of Hunter Biden. But NDI, again, is fully funded by the US government. They get hundreds of millions of dollars every year. They are notorious for regime change and organizing street riots, penetrating the unions in countries, penetrating their for-profit companies, penetrating academia

Mobilizing student youths to take to the streets and here you have the NDI senior elections advisor encouraging Brazil's top judge Bejozo to if you just play this clip here in this rumble, you'll see the sand so we're paying how long is it? We're you can just play the first just play like the first 30 seconds to get the idea of it. And you can, if you need to mute that for the ads or a second. I just want to show you that all this is meticulously, forensically detailed. Yeah. You, so. This will go out to all the panelists and just feel free if you have some strong feelings about it to answer because I did want to talk a bit about something that we know about disinformation campaigns have often specifically targeted women and marginalized communities.

You want to hear from him right. women and marginalized communities. And can create hostile online environments. Can you fast forward to any speech? Well you'll see what she, can you pause for a second? What she goes, she presses him to do more to censor non-inclusive speech. This is our taxpayer funded CIA cutout pushing the top judge in Brazil to do more to censor.

And in fact, you know If you can you can play that out or if you you know I've got a I've got a million of these clips that we trained all their judges I mean I can show you it's it's we trained all of Brazil's judge. Yes. Yes It was like in fact in the program the banner program that that coordinated this They said one of the specific reasons they did this is so that these that coordinated this. They said one of the specific reasons they did this is so that these judicial institutions,

what they call EMBs, election management bodies, this has been a big push since Trump won to control the judiciary, because USAID and its charter is allowed to do so-called judicial reform to influence the laws and the judicial decisions in foreign countries. And so, if you don't want to sit through countries. And so, you know, you can, if you don't wanna sit through this whole thing,

but you can hear her say, this is, I'll make this, you know, this is in the report with millions of other things, but I'll put this on my ex account for folks, you know, right after this. But if you wanna go to the next slide, you'll see, if you wanna just hear straight

from the horse's mouth without having to skip around. So this is a presentation of the top judge in Brazil to the Wilson Center, which is the close partner and implementer of the US State Department. It gets, I think, over 30% of its annual funds directly from US taxpayers. It is one of our flank of State Department interlocutors. Nicolas, do you know who he is? Yes, of course I know. That was the guy that I told you here,

a minute ago, that he said that we defeated Bolsonaro, we defeated Bolsonaroism. After that, Bolsonaro lost the elections. Yeah, now if you wanna play that, I can give you a background. They did a whole war game for teaching them how to censor a Bolsonaro post, the Wilson Center, the State Department funded Wilson Center with them.

Which clip are you talking about? Yeah, this one. Yeah, if you wanna just listen. In fact, if you skip to the end of it, just do the last 45 seconds and you'll get the picture of it. We brought them in for this. Yeah, just, yeah, like, or actually, no, no, no, no, start a little bit for that.

Yeah, yeah, right there. Yeah, that's fine, you'll see. This page and check if the information is true. So we prepared for a war and I think we are winning so far. I don't like to celebrate things before they're over, but so far, misinformation has been very unimportant in this election compared to what happened before. And so what we did, I think we got rid or we prevented

what we call the useful innocence people that would forward fake news, you know, just without knowing or for not being conscious. I think we scare the amateurs and the professionals, the digital militias that have a hierarchy and are funded, we are paying very much attention to them and a couple of them we have dismantled with the federal police and with great publicity. So I think we reduced disinformation campaigns to a minimum in these elections, fortunately. Okay, so if you pause there. Now the Wilson Center is a US State Department organ. We pay for this. The Wilson Center then got together with Brazilian judges

and officials and did a whole disinformation war game to train them on the best practices of what we had used to censor Trump during the 2020 election. You know who else was at the Wilson Center? Nina Jankovic, the head of the Disinformation Governance Board. We are literally taking best practices from the US that were used to stop Trump from winning in 2020 and training every organ. We went around to the prosecutors, the judges, the universities.

There's a whole story here with the unions. Top to bottom, we spent tens of millions of dollars. And, you know... So it's a big loss for them to lose USAID. Is that just the tip? Oh, my God, because I mean, it seems like they're a bit on an island without them. Is that correct? Or is this like is there the NED still? Yes, they're in a full blown panic over it. And now there are there's a question of if they can offset that

through funding from the EU and other international bodies like the UN, they want to try to create sort of like replacement funding through the private donor networks through the Soros networks and the Gates networks are gonna have to pay, the Craig Newmark networks, the Piero Midiar networks, the Reid Hoffman networks may have to spend their own billions to offset that, but they're also

working with these in power. The censors in exile here in the US are trying to get this funding to continue this work by partnering with foreign governments to get it now that USAID is down, but that is going to cost them a lot. Mike, let me ask you a question. Have you been, again, three questions I've asked you? You're very good at dodging any question I ask. I don't think you've answered a single question of mine.

I think you just came with a PowerPoint to present. I ask you, since you have knowledge in this. I know, I'm asking, since you have knowledge in this, I ask you with Dan Bongino, we would want someone like you on the inside to help something like this if you're knowledgeable in it. Are you open to the idea if they do re-chat? And have you had any of the conversations?

You don't have to answer the second one, but the first one. I just wanna be useful. You just wanna be useful, which means yes. Yes. That's what that means. Whatever the best role for me is. Okay, so.

My North Star here is about freedom of speech. And it's not about trying to get a particular person elected It's not about you know What happens in foreign countries you know for the sake of what happens there? It's you know like I said I think Bolsonaro is a hero. I think he's a martyr figure I think it's a human rights violation what happened to him I think he's a martyr figure. I think it's a human rights violation what happened to him My priority is as an American to tell this story about Brazil because this is a story of the American government and

And this is something that the Trump administration if it wants to get done its domestic agenda is going to run into this international Goliath they're gonna run into the EU. They're gonna run into it in Canada and Australia They're gonna run into it in Ukraine. They're gonna run into it in Central Asia They're gonna run into it in sub-saharan Africa But the Brazil case study is a really clean one because the size of the operation and how sloppy they were about covering the dress That's good. So that means the fingerprints are gonna be left with what's going on Nicholas for you when you're hearing what he's saying I'm assuming you see half of the stuff you already maybe have seen or you know the judge, you're in the country, you go through it.

But for the people, okay, today Americans are listening to you, Brazilians are listening to him. That was my idea, for them to see the both messaging, to see what Brazilians are going to hear from Mike to be inspired, what can I do, right? And from your end, for Americans to say, I love this guy, I need to be involved, I want to share this information with other people, how can we do something about it? What Mike said here, I think for all the Americans, it's very hard to understand, but it's the

truth. You are paying taxes, and this taxes is going to interfere in our politics in Brazil. And it's not for the good, it's for the bad. If you see like the other page that he, the other one that was training Barroso, the Think Tank that was training Barroso. Yeah, those three ladies, Rob. The three ladies Rob the ladies with

Winston Center in the NDA but all of these they are training our judges like you want to go to slide one by the way I don't mean to interrupt but no no problem Yeah, like to censorship us You know, does that look familiar? Yes, it is. That's the us aid seps program Is this something the judges want or is it something? Let's roll the next one to do though So that's why these guys If you if you hear again the Bahosa speech He says that we we are winning so far the war because we don't want to happen what happened in

2018 again this kind of this what happened in 2018 again, this kind of this misinformation. So he says that Bolsonaro only won because of the fake news and disinformation and that's why they need to combat this because Bolsonaro and Bolsonaroism they are a threat to democracy but they are the threat to democracy. So your taxes are paying the tyranny in my country. That's what's happening. So these taxes are paying the tyranny in my country. That's what's happening. So these guys are interfering in our politics and for the bad. As I was saying, I don't want them to interfere in nothing,

either in right or either in left, because we want a free country, a sovereignty country. And that's why day by day they try to censorship us. For example, if you put the other slide that says the unapproval, rating unapproval of Brazil, of Lula's. This thing, it's from 14 February of this year, approval rating of Brazil's Lula's falls to 34 for 35. And this is the reason of that, it's mainly because of a video of me that I did on Instagram. I posted a video on Instagram because in Brazil informal work is very

widespread and Lula government, as all the socialist government, they try to collect more attacks from people. And then I made a video, it's up, up, up, go up more, this first one. I made this video and saying that... You got 8.8 million likes? Yeah, it has. Can you click on to see how many of you this video got wrapped? Just click on the numbers of likes? It'll show you if you click on that.

Let me check it here. I think you need to go out. No present reels. And then you go down, you're gonna find it. Okay, there you go. 327 million. Like this video I think it's the most viewed view in 24 hours in the whole world and that happened because all Brazilians were very unsatisfied and still unsatisfied With Lula government and they and then they what are you saying at the message? Because the government tried to implement a measure to tax informal workers who move up five thousand rials. It's less than one thousand dollars in their account. So anyone who was an informal worker and made this, who moved this in their bank account would have the government controlling what he's doing in his bank account.

So this small business would be very, how can I say, hurt them. You know what I want, how long is that video by the way? Four minutes. So in the video what are you explaining to them? I'm explaining that the government wants to do this with the small business, that Lula is spending a lot of your money, a lot of your tax money, that the judges, they don't put their bank accounts to open as they want to put the small business. And then I'm saying we need to stop Lula, otherwise he'll stop Brazil and this video made the government back down and he and the

government took this measure. What's the date on that video Rob? Sorry? What's the date on the video? It's five weeks ago. It's 15 January. Yep right down here January 14th. 14th sorry yeah so one month after Lula approval rating got down because of this video and that's why they try to censorship us because with this video I passed Lula of followers on Instagram like all of or the majority of my videos they had more than one million views and that's why they try to push us down and say that we are threatened to democracy because we talk to the people. As I said I came from a very poor neighborhood, people listen to me and I'm just speaking, I'm just speaking truth

and then after this video all the Lula's government said that they were going to sue me There that I did fake news. I did this information This information but in the video they couldn't find any lies any fake news any fake news So they couldn't do anything with me, but they threatened me a lot So my security I need to I need to walk with more security in Brazil because of this, because I'm so dangerous, you can see. Look at my face. I'm very dangerous to democracy.

And there are a lot of drug dealers in Brazil that are being sold to. Yeah, there are a lot of drug dealers in Brazil, they are being released. There are a lot of drug dealers in Brazil that are being released by the Supreme Court and they don't go against this kind of crime organization but they move the whole world to put me, Bolsonaro and others in jail. So people in Brazil are just desirated by this kind of measure. And that's why in 16th of March we're all going to streets to protest in Rio de Janeiro, Copacabana with Bolsonaro because we need to put an end in this.

Where is Bolsonaro going to be? In Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro this. Where is Bolsonaro gonna be? In Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro. Where are you gonna be? At the same place. Same place, so it's not like different locations. Yeah, before we were doing in different locations, but Bolsonaro told that it was better to put only one place.

Everybody goes to one place. Everybody goes to one place. So right now, is the confidence there that Bolsonaro, because you're 28, you cannot run till 2036, right? If I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I can't run. Yeah, I need to be terrified right right now It's one of two things was the conversation one lower the age to run Which that's not the topic right now You know they they they may want you to run for Senate because that's one way to help right?

That's kind of one of the things we're talking about. So if they're not going to lower the age and they have them right now not being able to run for 2026, and if they have control of all the three different branches of like you got Supreme and House and Senate, what can you do for them to allow Bolsonaro to run? Because if he doesn't run, what's going to happen? His wife's going to be the face? Kind of like what's going on with Venezuela where Maria Corina Machado ran with I think what's the guy's name?

Edmundo Gonzalez? I think that's his name? Yeah, I think that's right. Would that be kind of how they would do it? What do you think can happen? I really don't know what's going to happen in Brazil. When I talk to Bolsonaro, he says that I'm the candidate and and that's all I'm gonna run for president He's saying that yeah, he's saying that so and I asked him

What should I answer if someone says that maybe other candidate maybe other person he says I am running for presidency So I really don't know what's going on. I just don't think that the the system will Leave him free to run. I don't know that he will be able to run for presidency in Brazil. I really don't know. Because they have a lot of power, a lot of power in Brazil. So you know... We can do much because if you are in a normal democracy, that you have the executive

power, the legislative power, the judicial power, okay, it's fine. But me as a congressman, I don't have any power today. I just only have my voice. So that's why we're still speaking and giving speeches because this gives hope to people, this defends the moral, the principles, the values of the Brazilian people, but that's all we can do. We, of course, come here to US, Elon Musk shared a lot of videos of mine, he helps a lot, Mike is doing such an amazing job, but that's all we can do.

I'm not saying it's the last thing to do, but it's all we can do. So but we can't do much to me. I I Okay, so if this thing's that from 80 to 34 to 24 you got 329 million views I don't know if I've seen a video with 329 million views and you're from Brazil us as a bigger country I don't honestly I don't know if you've, I've seen a video with 329 million views, 8.8 million likes, and I'm talking, the only thing I guess I saw is when Messi's post got 77 million views on Instagram

when he won the World Cup. I mean, that's Messi winning the World Cup is what I've seen, right? So the only thing it makes me think about, if they're not gonna get out the way, and look, I can say this, Mike for sure can't say this, but I can say this, okay, Mike, earmuffs, could it be, because it's either heavy involved with the President, US, which I don't think they want to do, when the President here and I ask him the question

about Iran, and you know, the question about Iran, and the fact that the last time the sanctions hurt Iran so much that Iran almost fell. And it was pretty bad. I said, what are you planning on doing with Iran? He says, we have so many problems in America right now, that I've got to think about me. I can't do anything else. So then if it goes on you guys, and you said, I don't want any help, leave us alone. Don't help the left, don't help the right.

That's kind of what you said about 5-10 minutes ago, right? Okay. What are you going to do if they're not moving? What is the only option you got left? I mean, revolution is the only option and that's not something anybody wants to talk about. Yeah, but I believe in the power of the people. Like, we the people, I don't underestimate that.

For example, people went to the streets in 2016 and we took Dilma out of the office, of the presidential office. So we need to go to the streets again. We need to push the government because unfortunately, Brazilian people only go to streets because of economy. Coffee in Brazil, the price is so high right now. The oil, the fuel is the same. The eggs now in Brazil, it's so high level.

So people are getting mad with Lula government and that's what makes Brazilian people go to the streets. But this is sad because we need to go to streets not only for economy. We need to go to the streets for our freedom, for our freedom of speech. But Brazil is a huge country. We have a lot of Brazils inside of Brazil. So only economy will put us in the streets again. So now with this rating, disapproval of Lula, maybe people go to the streets again and push the government to maybe took Lula out and maybe put someone else over there but I don't know, Brazilian have a

short memory unfortunately, Brazilian people has a short memory here in US you guys have a lot of guys that stood for a country that fight for the freedom and you put this in schools and universities and in Brazil all the schools and all the universities, they are taken by the left. So when a teenager looks back to the history, he doesn't know why he's fighting for. So that's why he doesn't fight. So Brazil, it's a very difficult country.

We have a huge potential. We have great natural resources. Our food is great. We are... I love Brazil. But unfortunately, most of Brazilians voted for Lula just because he promised to give meat for people. Maybe you guys Americans don't know, but there is a meat in Brazil called picanha. You guys maybe go to a Brazilian steak house here. It's delicious. Yeah, picanha. Lula, he definitely said, if you vote for me, I'm gonna give you picanha and beer. And that's why Brazilian people voted on him. He was in jail for like

more than 500 days. And people in Brazil were like, okay, I want picanha. I'm gonna vote for him. So Brazilian people has a blame on it. I know that there's a lot of interference in elections in Brazil, but the culture of Brazil needs to change. Like we are a country that has more than 80% of Christians, but we are not Christians at all. So you know that it's deeper the problem in Brazil. That's why for example, I made this kind of books. I studied a lot of philosophers that says that politics it's only maybe the reflects of what goes in culture before. So all the left in Brazil, they took power of the culture. So if you open the Brazilian TV,

you're gonna see a lot of bad values. They tried to destroy our family only with the novels, with the documentaries, in our schools. So it's not only the politics that needs to change in Brazil. It's our culture. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm in the politics, of course, I do my job, I do my work, but in the other side, I try to say to Brazilian people that we need to do individual's responsibilities. Otherwise, we are not going to change Brazil. Rob, can you go back to that slide you had

about the price of coffee? So if you look at this with price of coffee, that's as of December of 2024. Average monthly price of coffee, that's as of December of 2024. Average monthly price of coffee in Brazil from January 2021 to December of 2024, look where it was just in 21 to where it's at today. And you're saying the people are feeling this. Yeah, because coffee is the most popular drink in Brazil.

So everyone drinks it so even the rich or the poorest one he feels the price going up and he gets mad so that's why I'm saying people in Brazil are getting mad with Lula's administration because of that because the coffee that you drink every day is in a high price. Mike maybe you can't say what US can do, okay? And I'm going to leave that one alone for now, okay? But what can the Brazilian people do? Your clips are being played in Brazil all over the place.

Translated, Portuguese, they're senior. They know who you are. They're recognizing who you are. When we were there, your name came up a lot of times as I'm having conversations with different Congress, Senate Senate people that are talking What what feedback do you have to the people who are sitting there saying okay without America's help? What can we do? What would you say to them? It's hard for me to give advice to the Brazilian people, you know as an American citizen

It feels it feels a little bit outside my place. I think in general, it's amazing to see the success that you've had. I too, like Patrick, have never seen an Instagram video with over 300 million views. That's highly impressive, but I think that is ultimately the path to bringing power to the people, is to make your voice heard as loud as humanly possible and to keep turning your voice up and up and up and up and to find partners

at every conceivable level in the US, in Europe, to wherever. And I don't mean that in an interference way, I mean that simply for people around the world to hear your message. This is a common interplay in these situations, is there's the concept of the so-called international community, which are like-minded,

all around the world who believe in a cause or believe in a principle, and the bigger that tent is, the more that energizes, the more that energizes, and the more that also impacts the people in the country, because they will hear the media sirens around the world who amplify that message. It gets out, and support can come from strange places when you sing your song loud enough.

And I think you guys are doing the right thing in terms of that. And that's really the only thing it feels appropriate for me to say, because I think below that you start to get to issues around political organizing, and it feels out of place for me to opine on that part of it.

But I think it's a great's a great advice as I was saying we need to give power to the people. That's all we all that the tyranny wants to do with the people it's to underestimate their power. So our voice I never I never thought that maybe I can talk about John Baptists here. thought that maybe I can talk about John Baptist here. John Baptist doesn't know what is PBD Podcast, but I'm talking about him now. So what we do in life, as the gladiator says, echoes for all the eternity. So we need to speak, we need to put our voices loud and loud and loud, and then maybe Brazil will shine bright again. Do you think you guys have too many political parties because in Congress line you got like 24 of them in that whole center block It's what like 50% of the Congress and seems like that kind of jams a lot of things up

So like are they consistent with the way they vote or do they go with like in whichever direction the winds blowing? Yeah, the Congress is a complex team to talk here. But yeah, there's a lot of parties and the left it's it's very strategical to put an extreme left a left a moderate left so to took power so they change their faces as the demon he put as a angel just to gain just to gain you so you have have, for example, in Brazil, a party called Socialist and Liberty Party. So it doesn't make sense. But they run with this kind of name because they are experts in propaganda.

So yeah, we need to do a reform. We need to do a reform in our parties and elections, but it's very hard because people who are in charge right now, maybe if we want to do a reform, it's going to go in a bad way. Can you convert anybody from that center, you think? Because it seems like there's some guys that maybe could pull to your side. Like here we only have two political parties, but there, if you got like several of them in that center block, is there any potential to recruit? I think the ideal maybe is to run like without a party. Maybe you have an independence candidate.

It would be nice. But parties in Brazil, it's a huge instrumental of power. If you have a party in Brazil, you are very powerful. So I think it's gonna be very difficult to change that. Mike let me ask you with Cassap what do you think about Gilberto Cassap? You know he is seems like he's a pretty powerful guy right now with the leader, what is it the center? Yeah he's the leader of the center in Brazil. He has a great space in São Paulo's government under Tassizio. Now for example Bolsonaro talking to him

I think one month ago because of the people they are in jail of January we need votes for the NHT that we are fighting for these people so but but he he's dangerous. You have a relationship with him or no? No, I don't. I talk to him like one day when I got down from my apartment he was there he said some stuff to me and I said, okay thank you and that's all I never talk to him

but he's a powerful man Is he a guy that has enough power and influence to help you or help Bolsonaro run in 2026 or he's not a guy that's gonna help Bolsonaro? So as I think the the center goes where where people are winning so if he thinks that Bolsonaro has a chance to win he's gonna be with Bolsonaro if he thinks that it doesn't he's going with Lula so he have he has photos with all the ex presidents in Brazil he's going with Lula. So he has photos with all the ex presidents in Brazil.

He's the president of the Social Democratic Party. So he goes wherever the team wins. I can't say that I trust him because I really don't but maybe like if he wants to help Bolsonaro right now okay help is always good but of course he's gonna ask something and I don't know what he's gonna ask for like a favor yeah of course the center never comes without a favor and I don't know if this is favor, it goes higher than our principal values. I don't know. I don't talk to him, so I'm not in the negotiation of this. Have you ever tried to, like in a strategic way?

It's hard because even though I'm the most voted congressman in Brazil, I'm only 28 and I started just right now. So I put in my place. My place is here, I'm doing my job. If they want to talk to me, I talk to anyone. If maybe Lula wants to talk to me, I don't know, I wouldn't talk. But some guys I would talk because I think this is politics. I didn't choose the presidents of the parties. I didn't choose the deputies that worked with me. I didn't choose the presidents of the parties. I didn't choose the deputies that worked with me. I didn't choose the senates.

People choose that. So I need to work with the Materia Prima. Let me ask you, with Amazon fire, is that a big issue? Oh, it's a big issue. Not for the socialists right now, because Lula administration has all the records of fires in the Amazon right now. If you can pull up the chart Rob I texted you earlier to make the comparison so here's what we got it shows if you go to that link go a little

bit lower it shows you how many fires they've had look at that zoom in a little bit 44 million acres of fire has been burned, acres has been burned in Brazil just last year. Okay, 2019 was 19 million, then 19 million, then 13 million, then again 19 million, then 27 million under Lula, and then 44 million. Just to kind of put in perspective how much 44 million acres is, Rob, if you can go to the other link that shows states in America so people can kind of know, 44 million acres is, Rob, if you can go to the other link that shows states in America so people can kind of know. 44 million acres is more than the state of Alabama, more than Arkansas, more than the state of Florida. Florida's only 30, go a little bit higher

Rob so we can show the top right. No, that's a while. Go to the third one. State land area. Yeah, right there. Go to the other way. Look at that. Go down. Only one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen. Fifteen states are bigger than forty-four acres. Thirty-five states in America are smaller than forty-four million acres. That's fire. what is what is Lula's Administration saying about this is this normal to you guys how do people react about this show when? Bolsonaro Was in the presidency there were of course fires in Amazon because it's a natural thing

But it was very lower than right now. And I need to remember you American guys that Leonardo DiCaprio, Greta, Mark Ruffalo, in the elections they said that Bolsonaro was putting fire in the Amazon. Emmanuel Macron, for example, he posted an old photo of Amazon burning and said that was under Bolsonaro administration.

Get out of here. But it wasn't. So that is the kind of person that we were finding. Yes, this is not a photo under Bolsonaro administration, but he posted as it was. I have some information here, Patrick. In 2024, the National Institute for Space Research recorded 140,000 fire outbreaks in the region. It's the highest number since 2008, when Lula was also president. So he beat his own record. Additionally, the legal Amazon region experienced in 2024, the highest number of fires in 17 years, according to government data released in January 2025.

So there was a lot of propaganda against Bolsonaro, but he did a lot of things, putting army in Amazon to stop the fire. He did a lot of things. But in this time, all the left in the whole world was saying that we don't preserve the Amazon but there is any other country in the world that preserves more the environment than Brazil. We don't. They don't. Like we do a great job even though it's a tough challenge that we face in Amazon because it's huge.

It's huge, it's a huge place. But the left with Lula and right now we are facing the top fires in all history. It seems like under Lula when the fires happen, it's climate change. But when the fires happen. It's climate change But when the fires happen under Bolsonaro, it's his fault. Yeah, it's his fault. It's almost another fault now socialists goes to his house and His wife is cheating on him. He says Bolsonaro's fault

Everything is Bolsonaro's fault, you know in Brazil is like that. I don't think it's different here Everything is Trump's fault, you know. In Brazil, it's like that. I don't think it's different here. Everything is Trump's fault, right? So next question, Rob, if you can pull up Lula's wife had a message for Musk and Mike, I'm coming to you after this one here. So this is Lula's wife, wonderful lady. She is giving a message to Musk here. Go ahead and play this clip Rob. What role you think X is playing in

Brazilians gaining their freedom like? What role you think X is playing? I think it's I think it's enormous. I think that's why they want it shut down in Brazil unless compliance measures were put in place. I think that the Lula government, as well as the Biden government was intensely aware that the the power of social media would be the determinant of whether or not the election will go one way or the other. I have quotes from the people involved in this that they believe their work censoring

Bolsonaro was dispositive in terms of tilting it in Lula's favor. There was a personal meeting actually, Lula's, I think it was what his first month in office at the first meeting with the Biden administration. I know you're accusing me of going back to the slideshow, but the fact is I think that a lot of people haven't seen this and since I know that- I'm not accusing at all. No, my point to you was, when I was bringing you and Nicolas here,

I wanted to make sure that the people in Brazil, if they wanted to know how they can have freedom, that's what I was saying, not accusing of a slideshow. If you got the slideshow- I'm being cheeky, no, I understand. Play the clip. What's this one here, Mike? Well, what I'm showing here is this is the this is Okay, so this is February 2023. So I guess this was there, but this is a joint statement following the meeting between President Biden And uh and President Lula. So I think this was their first meeting after the 2022 election. So today, President Biden and President Lula, during the meeting, they discussed the nature

of the US-Brazil relationship, strengthening democracy. Go to the next slide. Biden and Lula pledged to work together to strengthen democratic institutions, which means strengthen these control networks, and reaffirmed their intention to build societal resilience to disinformation and to work together on that.

So Biden and Lula talked about the need to stop online disinformation and agreed to work together. And this is, you know, when I go back to this coordination between the White House, the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA, the NGOs. This is part of an interagency working group to control the internal politics of Brazil. And that money is still flowing, and it's not just USAID. They're the biggest money spigot. But I'll give you some other examples,

because I'm actually fascinated about what something Nicholas just said about the fires. But maybe I'll start with, if you go to slide, this is I think 24, 24, 25? Yeah, next one, sorry, 25. Can you blow that up? Okay, so here's just one. Rob, can you zoom in a little bit, even more?

Does it allow you or no? It doesn't look like it allows me. Go for it, Mike. Yeah, so would you say the unions are more pro Bolsonaro or pro Lula in Brazil? It's a union candidate. Yeah. Yeah, the whole thing's unions.

So here's a $12 million US Department of Labor, that's my wallet, Patrick, your wallet, US citizens, paying $12 million to the unions in Brazil. So I'm gonna read some of these details, okay? 12 million, yes, and this was granted right after the, this was, I think the grant date for this was, start date was December 2022, right after the 2022 elections.

Almost feels like a payoff for some reason. But here again, let me read this, okay? So $22 million, I'm sorry, $12 million given. And you'll see the, and in fact, if you go to the next, if you go to the one right after, you'll see, and yeah, so Brazil, and one more over, we'll come back to that in a sec. You'll see, just so you know, you see the numbers here,

right, this is on usaspending.gov. You can look this up publicly. It's still active. Brazilian unions, Lula's unions, are still getting paid by you and me. They are taking money from us. We are capacity building. I'll read you the technical reason they say why.

So if you go back two slides again, let's just read this, okay? So this is, the purpose is to improve respect for labor rights and participatory planning with unions in Brazil. Again, this is the Bureau of International Labor Affairs at the Department of Labor. Direct financial support for workers organizing, build cross-movement networks with civil society organization allies, representing marginalized populations and mobilized. Increased capacity of worker organizations to organize, mobilize, and advocate on their own

behalf here. Populations and beneficiaries are in Brazil. Workers and unions with a focus on Afro-Brazilian young and women workers. And there's tie-ins to the indigenous sex in Brazil, which the US State Department made a very big play for, which sort of gets me to some of the Amazon Fire elements here, but this is stock standard.

We've been funding the Lula machine from every direction, from the State Department, from USA USAID from the Department of Labor from the National Endowment for Democracy Solidarity Center Can I can I go off on this was like okay? I mentioned there's four core fours for the our top CIA cutout the National Endowment for Democracy Which by the way, and you can even you know if you can go to my x timeline if or you look it up Either way even you know if you can go to my ex timeline if or you look it up either way You know this is a direct quote from the founder of the National Endowment for Democracy at their founding that the reason

That that they were created was because the CIA used to get in trouble for running financial assistance to political opposition groups And it it looks terrible when the CIA is seen as subsidizing them That's why the endowment was created the the National Endowment for Democracy was created, so that the funding could be provided without CIA fingerprints on it. And so, Ned has these four core fours that I've been talking about, right? IRI for the Republican side, NDI for the Democrat side. They have one for the Chamber of Commerce,

basically business interests in a region where we do political dirty work. They will basically benefit in some way from the new government. The fourth one is called the Solidarity Center. It's the CIA's work with unions. The Solidarity Center's closest partner, by far and away, bar none, is the group that used to be known by Democrats

in the 1960s and 70s who hated their partnership with the Central Intelligence Agency. They used to call it the AFL-CIA. It's known widely as the AFL-CIO. It's the largest union in the US. It has international branches that have served for 70 years as the union arm of the Central Intelligence Agency.

When we go to topple a government, we always go for the workers. We always go because a government can only wield the power of its own industrial base. It relies on the mine workers. It relies on the transportation workers. It relies on the dock workers. It relies on the media and the hospital workers.

If we can penetrate the workforce, we can cause the whole country to come to a standstill. And then the police are out of luck. The military are out of luck. They don't have hospitals working anymore. They don't have toilets working anymore. They don't have energy resources anymore. And so, Solidarity Center,

this gets its name from the Solidarity Movement, which, you know, was, you know, like, well, this was a Polish, you know, union group that liberated Poland from, from communism and, you know, during the Cold War. But that, you know, they were, they were handed bags of cash by the Central Intelligence Agency during that process. And this is a blueprint that we do all around. Now it was done against left-wing socialist countries during the Cold War primarily, but now it's being done to right-wing populist movements.

This is this boomerang that we're living in now. But the Solidarity Centers, basically, the AFL-CIO is the main arm of the Solidarity Center, and the AFL-CIO, you can look this up, before we get back to this grant, look up the AFL-CIO and who they named as man of the year. I believe it was in 2021, 2022. Just AFL, yeah, put Lula, or put,

you can, yeah, put Lula there, you'll see. This is the, well, they gave the award to you. Lula, how long, it's like, or scroll down. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. Click on that. But that's 2019. Oh 2019, yes, okay.

Yeah 2019, huh. Right after. This is a photo of people in the front of the the degalacy where he is in prison. Right, yes, yes, that's right. Yes, AFL-CIO led that to get Lula. What? Yeah. The U.S. Union.

Hmm. Who works with the CIA around the world in its international branches. They... This is 29... This is one year into Bolsonaro's term. They were grooming him for the task practically. And they are our biggest union. Now, hold on. Go to the molly ball article Look up look at the molly ball article in in Time magazine, and I want to show you something really interesting No, yeah Time magazine it you just put in right wing fever dream or fortified elections

You may remember this is one of those famous articles of the past several years So it's Trump just unaware of this at this time because this is still under Trump. Oh, yeah Well, this is yes, he got rolled by the National Down for Democracy. He got rolled by USAID and that is why they are So, okay. Here you go. The secret history of the shadow campaign that saved the 2020 election. Oh, yeah Can you hit control actually just scroll down? I believe it's the scroll down scroll scroll down right below fold. Okay. Let me read this There was a conspiracy unfold this is Time magazine they all admitted to this publicly There was a conspiracy in unfolding behind the scenes one that curtailed that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance

between left-wing activists and business titans. Also, some right-wing internationalist Republican business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-knownest joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO. They had protests ready to go to shut down the U.S. government if Trump won in a fair and

square election. You can look all this up. This is a blueprint that was planned out. You find out on my x-feed, where we can go straight to the source documents, if you go to my x-feed and you type in TIP and BLM, you'll see this. They had this whole thing planned out. They had, or just type in clear Trump win, clear Trump win. That'll get you the, okay, or scroll down, down to the source documents, or you can do, like BLM will get you there too. Yeah, there you go, scroll down, yeah, right there.

Okay, so this, so actually before I read this, if you click on the thread, you'll see the context for this. Yeah, right there. Scroll up a little bit. Or yeah, up a little, okay. All right, maybe it's different. Go down.

You'll see, and I have on my timeline the clear template. This is the Transition Integrity Project. Rosa Book, Brooks, I think undersecretary for policy in Biden's been Obama's Pentagon they had Got together with military intelligence officials and the the former heads of both the DNC and RNC Michael Steele Donna Brazil That whole network They planned what to do in the event of quote a clear Trump win. This is scenario three here

Everyone can look at the source document. It's all over I think I have this the source link right there we can click on that right after this but here but let me start here a show of numbers in the streets and action the streets may be the decisive factors in determining how the public perceives it so what they talk about is leveraging the BLM protesters because they did this in the height of the George Floyd riots, they said, hey, we're gonna run this war game. If Trump wins, how can we still make sure,

if he wins the election, how do we stop his inauguration? And look what they do in this war game. They, the person playing, role playing Joe Biden, who was John Podesta in this, who was the one at the meeting who role played this, says that they presupposed that the Democrats would be able to use Black Lives Matter street muscle as a destabilizing protest force,

and the union workers and the whole AFL-CIO network, and that basically the recommendation, because this is going to come down to action in the streets, is that they need to better test the likely receptivity to a Biden call to take to the streets or a Biden campaign's ability to control these actors once mobilized. This is the BLM. Control the campaign's ability to wield them. And so what they propose is to build strong ties and grassroots

to build strong ties and be responsive to be on the demands that way be a level or them a favor they talk in this same thing and you can click the hyperlink CC this is i think boston herald who reported this that the the the source document right here type control effort clear trump win here is this is this is this is the work here in just yet click again you'll get the second one you see this is. This is the wordplay. Yeah, and just click again and you'll get to the second one. You'll see, this is what this all falls under, okay? How to stop Trump

from taking office if he wins fair and square. And what they called for was enhancing resources to the Black Lives Matter resource, Black Lives Matter, which by the way is exactly what the Chamber of Commerce did. Remember those billions of dollars from big corporations? And then lo and behold there's this secret agreement which doesn't get published until six months after the months after the election who was actually the one who was going to be mobilizing all of these shut down d c protests

oh it's the c i a s top union arm the a f l c i a o who's behind the same thing in brazil and by the way let me get the kicker here i mentioned this for core force for net right now i write n d i solitary center you know what the fourth one is new it's called seep a the center for international private enterprise you know what that is that's the c i a's liaison to the chamber of commerce the exact to groups the a f l c i a o and the chamber of commerce who teamed up had had an agreement published in Time Magazine to oust Trump if he won the election in 2020, teamed up through the National Endowment

for Democracy, working in Brazil, that ousted Bolsonaro. And if you remember, they were the ones who were training the judges. They were the ones who ran that whole network. NDI, they set up a whole coalition. It was called D4D, Design for Democracy, spun a spider's web around virtually every Brazilian institution around information control. Patrick, I have a question for Mike. Can I do that?

Mike, do you fear for our life? Because you're the national CIA and the whole scheme. Do you fear for our life? I think assassinations are a lot rarer nowadays. They've moved towards prosecutors as a much cleaner way to do it. There's been a lot of blowback from assassinations and they're upset about it. They're very upset about it. The blowback, you know, there's the interesting case of JFK, for example, and even today, the censors talk about conspiracy theories

about the CIA maybe assassinating, you know, it was published in the late 90s during the declassifications that the CIA was opening Lee Harvey Oswald's mail before he received it because they had a counterintelligence probe on him, but what I'm getting at is it's very messy when you take out a high-profile figure in an assassination. It's messy because whenever there's a tilt of power there are attempts to try to get

transparency. If you read the CIA assassination guide, which I've done on my ex-account and you know it's very funny, this came out during the church committee hearings and actually came out during the church committee hearings and actually came out in the 1990s during the JFK declassifications. But they talk about how it's imperative to make sure that there's only casual investigation afterwards and that these things don't have long memories

in terms of investigation. And it was outlawed and these things are never done directly by the agency. it's always through contractors or other groups, but what they've moved towards is judicial assassination. That's the clean way to do it. You get them accused of a crime, you throw them away for the rest of their life.

With Trump, with what they're doing to Bolsonaro, and it was my expectation that that was gonna happen to me eventually, whether it was going to be, you know, under Department has been replaced because I think, you know, the joke I say is they, you know, throw me away for 30 years for premeditated jaywalking. They would find a reason and it's as good as assassination. But I don't, that doesn't matter to me. I would, I feel a deep sense of purpose. I'm happy that there's an audience now for the things I talk about, but I was doing it with, I do it, throw me in a jail cell and I'll be, you know, I'll finish my book or I'll try to

convince the other people in the prison. I can't turn this off even if I wanted to, so it doesn't really feel like it's just me. Thank you. My question for you, so this, this the part where when I was Brazil, so it doesn't really feel like it's used to me. Thank you. My question for you. So this is the part where when I was in Brazil, it made me think about US. They've had seven constitutionals last 100 years. These guys have had it, right? We have the oldest constitution in the world. 193 out of 195 countries in the world

have a constitution, ours is the oldest, right? Let's go back to 2020 or 2024 when they wanted to remove him off the ballot in Colorado. 2023, 2024, you remember when it was when they were saying removing him off the ballot in Colorado. How different would it have been and how different are we from Brazil if we didn't have the Supreme Court 6-3? What if it was 6-3 the other way around? If it was 6-3 the other way around and say we didn't have Senate and we didn't have

Senate, let's just kind of go exactly the situation they're in in Brazil right now. Because they have all three on the other side, right? And that's why Cassab, Gilberto was such a powerful man because everybody needs to give him favors. And that's what he means by whatever the big favors. I don't know how big of a favor he's going to ask Bolsonaro. But what if we were 6-3? Do we have that fickle of a system that if the left had extremists of Supreme Court justices,

they could have removed them off the ballot? Could that have been a possibility? Oh, yeah. I mean, if you remember, they tried to— This is like— I mean, this is like stock standard, right? I mean, this is what's happening in Romania with the Georgia skew election in terms of nullifying it. I mean, whether you remove them at the ballots,

you can't vote for it, or you nullify the election after he wins, I mean, they're both the same thing, that you can't run if you're winning. I mean, it's basically the rule. And this is why it's terrifying that USAID and these other intelligence and statecraft affiliated NGO swarms go right for the jugular targeting the EMBs, targeting the electoral and judicial organs

around deciding elections and election processes and election results. You know, I have, I have, I hate to say it, but I have slides on all of this, but you know, be prepared if you wanna see straight from the horse's mouth what that looked like. Because USAID, you know, was doing the same thing and even, you know, some of these slides that I have here,

they're getting 12, 12 countries, EMBs in a room at once. You know, for example, in the US, the big EMBs in a room at once. For example, in the US, the big EMB is the Supreme Court. They decided the result of Bush v. Gore when there was the Florida hanging ballot, hanging Chad situation. Brazil, they have a different structure. They have their STF and then they've got their subcourt,

the TSE, and so they went for the juggernaut TSE. But as you'll see, but they also train the STF and then they've got their subcourt, the TSE, and so they went for the juggernaut TSE, but as you'll see, but they also train the STF. In fact, if you wanna pull the slide deck back up and hop on over to, if you started, how about slide, here you go, what number is this? Slide seven. Mike, why don't you just put the phone up on the desk? It looks like you're looking at something else every time you look at it. It's very inappropriate. I don't know if you see visually, it's not a good look.

Okay, all right. Next one. Okay, so you'll see here again, this is IFAS again. This is the State Department. This is, they get fully funded by the US State Department. They implement the USAID's programs that the USAID partner and implementer on all things elections there, working with another judge here, Jose Gilberto Scandiucci. So now we've got Bojoso Damorais Scandiucci working directly with the SEPS USAID program,

which is one of the most terrifying things. But go to the next slide here real quick. OK, well, actually, the sale that for a second, this is another example of how U.S. money continues to corrupt Brazil's democracy here. Covid, they went after Bolsonaro for questioning Covid and not streaming the vaccine. So this is Internews. Internews gets half a billion dollars a year from U.S. taxpayers. The the founder of internews talks about how You know they had to constantly explain to

To people in foreign countries that no, we're not the CIA. We're we're we're not CIA media We're just funded by the US government and we're directing this so internews is It has a network of about 6,000 different media organizations. They train 9,000 journalists around the world. They're basically a worldwide operation mockingbird apparatus for the US State Department to be able to create a symphony of media in foreign countries. Who runs it?

Who runs it? Well, actually, if you pull up the clip of the CEO, just type in CEO, go to X and just type CEO, inner news, advertiser. And you'll see this was very viral. Elon was livid at this, as everyone should be, because I've been talking about internews as their huge role in internet censorship.

Because they use the State Department's media apparatus to push advertiser boycotts and all sorts of other things. Yeah, if you start from the beginning, it's just 28 seconds, you'll see. This is the CEO of internews right here. Disinformation makes money. And that's one of them. We need to follow that money and we need to work with the, and particularly the global advertising industry that a lot of those dollars go to pretty bad content.

And so you can work really hard on exclusion lists or inclusion lists or really try to focus ad dollars and challenge the global advertising industry all around the world to focus their ad dollars towards the good news and information, the accurate and relevant news and information. So that's the general of effectively the CIA State Department USAID media octopus with thousands of tentacles around the world. Now here's Brazil, here's internews in Brazil, okay? Because media promotes censorship in these countries, and that legitimizes the passage of anti-misinformation laws.

When judges act corrupt, people don't take to the streets because internews media is saying that's what they should have done. In fact, internews will put pressure on governments if they don't censor what the State Department wants censored there. So here's what they did in COVID. They created a program in Brazil called Rooted in Trust. You see, it is a global pandemic information response program countering the unprecedented scale and speed and spread of rumors and misinformation. Project focuses on, you know, see, Lebanon, Mali, Colombia, Sudan, Brazil. They have a whole section on Brazil in this report as well.

You look at the highlights so far. Rooted in Trust has tracked more than 19,000 rumors about the virus. 14 languages, 81 million people in response to the unique rumors sourced from each country context. The project's produced over 130 rumor bulletins, 500 radio broadcasts, and 480 other media stories. Through a series of training opportunities, events, peer networks, and grants, Rooted

in Trust has sponsored 550 local media organizations. 350,000 people, almost 5,000 listening groups for this, all to basically ban the ability to question facts. But again, what I would say is this is why they lost. This is why Trump won. What I'm trying to ask you, and I want to stay on this one topic. Well, they won because Elon allowed us to talk about this. They don't have that.

And that's where I'm going. So where I'm going is for you. Okay, we live in the states, right? My concern was if we didn't have Supreme Court, they could have removed Trump off the ballot. If they would have done that in Colorado and a couple other states would have gone, then it would have been mayhem. Because Supreme Court, from your point of view, how different is Brazil than US when it comes out to this? You may say, well no, what you guys have in America is XYZ, we don't have this in Brazil. What is that?

I think the Supreme Court, I think is the main problem because in Brazil we have 11 judges and I think only two of them, only two of them was indicated by Bolsonaro. So all the other ones was indicated or by Dilma or Lula or Temer who indicated Alexandre de Moraes. So the Supreme Court, I think it happens in maybe in the majority countries of Latin America. As Mike said that there is a different type of assassination. There is a different type of tyranny, because if the president stands as a tyranny, as a dictator, maybe people will go to the streets, will take him out, and his power is over.

But when you put this to a judge who says that he is fighting for democracy He's fighting for freedom. He's fighting against This misinformation so they they sell this as a good thing So the Supreme Court in Brazil they they decide everything so that's the biggest problem We can't do anything against them we can do like if I appeal I'm gonna appeal to who if I like change the more eyes decides What I'm able to do. That's what I'm saying nothing. Nothing. We can't do nothing They decide in the kovat Pandemic they they made a 24 by 7

All the day the traditional media was saying that Bolsonaro was a genocide, that he was responsible for all the deaths, and we couldn't say anything, anything. Not against the COVID, but we couldn't say anything about it. We couldn't question if the mask was a great thing to use for our health. For example, there was a lot of measures that the cities and the governments did. For example, these schools were closed more than one and a half years. People didn't go to school. The entire country or some places it was open? The entire country. For example, people could go only to churches, but if there was a space between them, but there was a lot of favelas in Brazil, for example, that had a lot of powers over there and anyone cared about it. So where I was born is a favela and there people were working as a criminal. If someone was maybe selling something and the police comes to there he would be fined by that. So you can work in the pandemic

not in the time schedule that the government said okay you can be open to 8 to 5 p.m. only. So it was a time in Brazil that I confess me as a Brazilian I thought that maybe the pandemic would take like one month, two months but it took like almost two years because Brazil we play football in the weekends we play we go to we go to, we go to churrasco. We go to the barbecue, like we live. So I thought that no, Brazil is not going to stay at home for one year, for two years, but a lot of people stayed at home. In that time, I was a city counselor in my city,

Belo Horizonte, and I made a lot of denounces, a lot of appointments about COVID, and I was very persecuted because of that. In the media in that time, I saw that it was very well planned to attack Bolsonaro. And now we see that a lot of things that he was saying, he was right. He always says that, I didn't make any mistake about COVID because everything that he said, he was right.

People couldn't work. So how they could put food on their tables. He was the only president that didn't take the vaccination in the world. So how they could put food on their tables. He was the only president that didn't take the vaccination in the world. That's pretty wild. Yeah. To think about being the only president, how's your relationship with him?

How are you guys together? Yeah, I'm fine if I call him. I don't know what time is in Brazil. Yeah, it's 10 o'clock. Maybe he answers me if I call him right now. Yeah, I'm in this since 2015, so I know him for a very long time and he was always very friendly with me, he's very kind with me, he knows who I am, he knows my heart, he knows my family. Like I have wife two kids right now I just know this for one month that I'm father will be father again

So he knows that I'm I'm trying to do my best sometimes I make mistakes I'm normally 28 years old 20 years old, but he's a he's a great guy You spoken to him since he got the charges against him last week. Yeah, we have we have a meeting with all since you got the charges against him last week? Yeah, we have a meeting with all the deputies, the conservative deputies, and we had a great talk. Do you think it was weird timing, how that came out, like, shortly after? But it's funny, because Bolsonaro, I can't say that,

with no problem, because he knows that. He's a crazy dude. As a Trump, he's a crazy dude. He's very genuine. So when the news came out that he was like 38 years denounced for jail, he was like, I don't care. He was like, okay, I don't care. I'm fine.

He knows what he got into. Do you think that was a response to us being there though and giving him a platform to speak on that could reach him? That's awesome. Patrick said, okay, we did a podcast with an interview with Bolsonaro. He asked me maybe did he like it? I was like, how long was that? Three hours. I said, okay, he definitely like it because he likes to speak when he likes the person So if he stayed three hours with you guys, he liked it a lot. He's a he's a very tough guy Of course, he's not perfect

He was the president of Brazil in a very difficult in hard time. The whole world was in a pandemic stuff But he gives hope to Brazilians. What's the part about now, okay? With messaging, you going around talking, everybody else going around talking, Eduardo being here talking. Who's, like the part where I was trying to figure out with everybody that's there, with Alexandre de Moraes, right? He just got off of X. We saw that. That was a few days ago. Whether he got off of X or he was kicked out of X,

I think it's the reality that he got off. Who does he fear? Like, what does Alexandre de Moraes, who does he go to sleep worried about? Who is he fearing? I don't know, but one thing that I can be sure about is that he doesn't have peace. I have more freedom than him. Even if he put me in jail, I have more freedom than him. Because he can't walk in Brazil. He can't go to an airport, he can't go to the downtown of São Paulo. He can't walk.

Because people hate him. Because of what he's doing because Brazil we have a lot of issues in Brazil serious issues of criminal organizations we have problems with education we have economic problems and like the judge of our Supreme Court is worried about a Bolsonaro of a coup that never existed. So we are like, come on, do your job. Go be a constitution control court, not a political court. So people are very mad with him

because he's not doing his job. He's a politician. He's a politician in charge. Mike, who do you think he fears? Because when he and X went back and forth, it didn't seem like he backed down. I mean, I think at one point, if I'm not mistaken, Elon had to fire everybody from X,

and then he had to rehire some people back from X in Brazil to make sure they were in a safe place. So who does Alexandro fear? Oh, nobody. You're being serious. Sure. I agree with you. That's why I'm asking a question. Who gets in his way? What if all that money gets pulled that you know you're talking about the 12 million there's billions here and there what if all that money gets pulled because it seems like a lot of the strength they're exerting comes from that.

That needs to be done immediately. And how much of it's left after USAID's been pulled away? Well, it comes from a lot of places. You have these Pentagon relationships between the US military and the Brazilian army. You have these, you know, these State Department grants to the region, which are huge. Remember, USAID is getting folded into state. So you have the state department funds, then you also have the active AID ones that need to be cut,

not just paused, but cut. You have the Department of Labor ones. You're probably going to have Department of Energy ones. You're going to have weird juicing of the universities through some of these other grant organs as well. All of that is one thing that at least creates a fair fight. I brought up, for example, the $12 million grant

to Lula's unions right after the 2022 election. The Solidarity Center just gave a a seven million dollar grant to the unions. That's tens of millions of dollars. You're capturing essentially, you're pumping up this. This is not Bolsonaro who's getting tens of millions of dollars from it. And so that also makes people, ideology is a funny thing. Sometimes people are true believers. Most of the time hearts and minds work is about cash. I always got hearts and minds and cash because you're only really sort of getting

the tail end of people through hearts and minds when they read the news. Usually it's downstream of their cultural leaders, their community leaders, their politicians, their you know significant people of note in the country and if you capture them with cash you get the whole you know hearts and minds behind that and so you take you take the coup cash out of Brazil I think you will see a much fairer fight and I think that people will be more responsive to their own people because they will Not have a foreign, you know source of funds that are basically telling them

You know Advising, you know what the judges should do. I mean and again getting back to that USAID steps program They literally said in the launch launch event of the program that one of its purposes was to make the partner networks feel supported by the US government. So one of the reasons that you've had this, I think this perception that there's nothing to fear from any sort of anger of Americans against what Brazil did is because They had the support of the Biden administration

The US Embassy didn't do squat and when that happened you remember I posted every day Day 27 day 28 here is what the US Embassy page. Here's their Twitter account. They're posting about you know disabled gymnast in Brazil and you know need to support the LGBTQIA2++ rock climbers in Brazil. As X, a major US champion, was shut down and as Starlink, a major US military contractor, had its assets seized. And as they began to potentially move into the Chinese, Chinese Starlink competitor into that, this is the sort of thing we have a State Department to stop from happening. And the State Department was, their silence,

and combined with the fact that they have formal State Department programs to make this happen, formal USA programs to make this happen, you have a, you know, Biden and Lula colluding on it. They wanted that to happen. They were supported for that to happen. The CEPHS program literally says that the plan is to get foreign countries to implement legal and regulatory measures to go after the social media companies to force accountability on them.

So question, do you think any of that money makes its way to the? Politicians in the sense give you a question for both of you so like senators people in the house could that us? Wives right anything like that like that seems like there's a lot of potential for that So I could could that be things are motivating people are in the center that seem to go whichever direction the winds blowing if you follow the money I seem to go whichever direction the wind's blowing? If you follow the money, I'm sure that you're going to find this money on these senators, in the families of the senators, of deputies, of course. There are a lot of guys that look like they have a lot more money than you'd expect them

to have. We have that in our Congress. Yeah, the Supreme Court, our Supreme Court judges, they have a lot of watches that it's way more than his salary, like Patek Philippe, for example. Lula, for example, he had a lot of watches. The name in Brazil that the left did the propaganda on Lula was he's the father of the poor. He's the father of the poor. It's beautiful, right? It's a good catchphrase. Yeah, but he has a huge patrimony. And that's funny because look, the socialists in Brazil,

they hate US. They hate US. Lula before the elections, he was calling Trump nasy. Calling him lazy? No, nasy. Nasy? Nazi, sorry. Oh, Nazi, gotcha, gotcha. elections he was calling Trump a lazy so lazy no lazy lazy Nazi sorry Oh Nazi Nazi Nazi so before the elections Lula was calling Trump and Nazi so socialists in Brazil they hate the US but now they're finding out that the taxpayers of US are Sponsorship, yeah, yeah the socialists in Brazil so Americans need to the now just like in mass they wouldn't be happy if that might got pulled either because then that you know whole Union program they have wouldn't be able to But that's what the socialists in the whole history do.

They take the other monas people to their own money plan or their plan of power. But they are doing this with your money, your hard-working money. So it's crazy. To a government that is socialist. I don't have any doubt that Lula doesn't care about US. They care about their own interests. They care about China, wherever. But they don't care about US.

It's nice, Mike, if you could speak to Brazilian people, why it's so different and why it's so good to have conservative presidents in Brazil to make relationship with US? And how bad is it to have Lula, for example, in the presidency of Brazil? Because I think Brazil is a country that matters to US. I think my opinions on this are not hard to tease out from what I say, but I do feel it is inappropriate for me to, you know, my mission is about speech freedom.

And in the course of that, I talk about all these adjacent things. I talk about the unions and the universities and all these other things, because that's important to understand how the apparatus, why they were doing the censorship, and the other things because that's important to understand how the apparatus, why they were doing the censorship, and the other things related to that operation. But that's for the Brazilian people to decide, and I think what was done to Bolsonaro

was a human rights violation. It was the sort of thing that we typically put sanctions on foreign countries for doing in terms of destroying the democratic process. process is what we have democracy promotions programs to stop when countries arrest their political opponents. When their court systems get corrupt. That's why we have a judicial reform mandate for USAID is when court systems get too corrupt to use the carrots and sticks of our diplomatic sphere to get them to course correct

their judiciary. In this case, we literally did it to them. We said, you're not corrupt enough. You need to get more corrupt. But this is a testament to the corruption we add in our own country under the Biden administration. And in the beginning, this happened under Trump's nose. Part of this is because USAID does not have to report to the president

When they do these these these type of operations unlike the CIA They do not need to get a presidential finding for covert action They can simply earmark the funds for humanitarian relief in Pakistan and then just run it through contractors to do things You know in in Brazil and I think the Trump administration had so much going on with Russiagate and everything else happening at DHS and the border and COVID. And they frankly didn't really know how the anatomy of the beast that they were operating on.

This is why I'm so encouraged that USAID was targeted in this way right out the gate, so that at least you stop the bleeding and you go straight to the heart of it, which leads to all the other malfeasance in the intel world and its state and DOD. But yes, but that is for the Brazilian people to decide. But I'm interested, obviously, in the human rights angle.

As a Brazilian, I'm just gonna give a tip to Trump's government. There's a lot of things that the Supreme Court judges have here in US. They have a lot of things here. That's it. It's just a tip, because as you said said who they fear? I think they fear to lose money. I think they fear to lose power. I think they want to come here to US for some

reason. And I think truly I think the only power instead of the people that can put an end to this tyranny or maybe to reduce the power of our Supreme Courts, is Trump administration. Doing not for revenge, but doing what is right. Because I agree with Mike, there was a right human violation with Bolsonaro, not only Bolsonaro, but with the Brazilian people. Because we, all that I want is not that Bolsonaro becomes president with bad resources. I want that we have a fear election. That's all that we want. We want fear elections. So I'm sure if there was a free a fear election in Brazil in 2022 Bolsonaro would be the president

So that's all that we if there was a free election you're saying Bolsonaro would be president. Yeah for sure Final thoughts before we wrap up Nicolas final thoughts before we wrap up the podcast Your optimism your future what you're thinking, what's gonna happen next between now and election time Brazil, where's your mind, what are you thinking? So I'm gonna give a different answer maybe because everyone talks about politics if as it was the the last resource in the world. As a Christian, as I said to you in that table, I think my hope died two thousand years ago.

He wrecked the record from the cross and that's where I put all of my faith and my belief. I think that we as human beings, we need to take care about our individual responsibilities. I think we need, as a man, needs to be great husbands. I need that the women needs to be great wives. We need to create children that has moral values. We need to know that we are creating children not to aim a good professional job, but we are raising a soul. And I think it changes everything because I can maybe go to jail, maybe they can persecute me for my words, but all that this world can do to me if if they kill me, is to meet my saviour.

So I need, I think that all the conservatives need not only to defend, not only to speak, but to live what they are defending for. I'm not only conservative because it's good for me to get invoked. I am conservative, I'm a Christian, because otherwise I would be very far from here. I don't know where else I would be. I was born in a favela. My cousin was a drug dealer in there. So maybe my path would be very bad. But Christ saved me for this. So when I talk about politics, of course I have enemies, I have the opposite guys that try to put me in jail and try to censorship me. But I look to them with eyes of compassion. I think we need to do this more. I was reading a Book like one week ago and there was there was a king called

Philippe Neri and he was walking down the streets and then he saw a robber and The diswarber robber was going to prison and then he said there goes Philippe Nero if if if wasn't the grace of the Lord. So I think if we put this in our life, either in politics or in the podcast, we need to have purpose in life. Like US, for example, I read a lot about the American history, and I know that Ebony Marcus and Theodore Adorno, they left Frankfurt school, they came to here, they entered into universities. After that, their ideas came to the Gospels.

And these reverberated in Brazil. Now unfortunately a lot of churches in Brazil, they have a lot of false Christians, they have a lot of people there are socialists, but they don't know. So that's our true war, our cultural war. Of course, I can put Bolsonaro in charge, we can have the Senate, we can have the Congress, okay, that's fine. But there are a lot of places that has powers that changes your heart. Maybe here in US an artist that goes in top of Spotify has more influence in their life of your children than a father has in their own children. So we can't only be conservatives because

it's good for us in the elections. We need to be conservatives because our life depends on this. That's what I'm aiming for in my life, to be a good father, to be a good husband, to be a good politician, and my aim is to go to heaven. That's all that I want. So that's what I think for my life. It's a pleasure to be here, Patrick. Thank you, Mike. Sorry, Brandon. Thank you, Brandon. I never thought that I would be here talking about politics because it's very far from what I think I deserve. But I'm glad to be here and I put God on this because I think he can truly transform people. Well, listen, just from spending the time with you, the first time we did a podcast here with Paulo,

yourself, who else was on? Eduardo. Eduardo and one other person. Gaier. Gaier was on. Gustavo Gaier. Yeah, Gustavo was here as well. I'm also on Gaier. Yes, and we had a great conversation. And then in Brazil, while I'm out there, we're having dinner, no camera on, we had you and Humberto, we gotta give a shout out to then in Brazil while I'm out there we're having dinner

No camera on we had you and Humberto. We got to give a shout out to Humberto. Remember Humberto? He's in Chile right now Let me tell you he loves you too afterwards he said said that was a versus. That's why I like this guy, but No, no wonder you are loved because of where you're at with your values and Everybody feels the same way. I'm excited to see what happens with you Bolsonaro's interview drops in Wednesday morning 9 a.m. We have the clip, but we'll show it. We'll show it on Wednesday Rob. Let it just play on Wednesday It's gonna to be fine.

And Mike, I got to thank you. As much of a hard time as I give to you, I consume what you talk about. Because the reality, the reason why I ask that question with Dan Bongino and Cash and all that other stuff, I'm hoping there's an announcement you're getting hired. I think if I'm on that part, I would hire a guy like you to bring you in. You have a little bit too much knowledge that can't be wasted. And not only do you have that knowledge, the part that makes you even special, that's tough to do.

I talked to a guy today who's training my son for soccer. He's 11 years old, he's been playing soccer and he's obsessed with soccer. He came up here to train my son. He lives an hour and a half away. This is a very well-known trainer. And I called him, I said, so tell me, what is your impression of my son when he gets trained? He says, I gotta tell you, the first thing I do is I have to make sure a person's kid is not playing soccer

because the parents want him to play soccer. He says, your son isn't playing soccer because of you. He's playing soccer because he loves the game. I said, trust me, if it was up to me, he'd play soccer. He says your son isn't playing soccer because of you. He's playing soccer because he loves the game. I said trust me if it was up to me he'd play baseball because I like baseball more than I like soccer. I said I want him to play baseball because we own a team I'd like him to one day play for a team that I own so he can have fun. But this guy loves the game. I said I can't stop him talking about soccer but what he's doing. And he's a big Neymar guy, he's a big Ronaldo guy, we live next to Messi so he's had a chance to meet Messi

and he's met a lot of different people. But the reason why you need to be in is because you give me the vibes that you can't stop thinking about this stuff. This is you, you can't help yourself. You're obsessed with this. God is using you with this. I just hope the US government uses you as well for this next phase and if not anything you said something very powerful

I just want to be useful and I respect that this the second time we spent time together. You seem very sincere I'm glad you're on our side and keep digging and finding things that you find because half the stuff you showed me I've not seen it before so I'm following, I'm getting smart every time I hear you speak. I appreciate your last minute getting on a flight and coming out here and being with us. Well likewise, and your leadership on this, I think is gonna encourage millions of people on this. And thanks for having us on.

It was a great conversation. Yeah, and Brandon, we gotta give a shout out to Brandon, who got, I've not met many people in my life that got a bachelor's degree in national security and at Masters in national security This guy devours this stuff and it was in Brazil with us as well Gang for those of you that are Brazilian if you know go show the support You know the books that this man has wrote this handsome man. Everybody is saying he looks like Marcelo from SNL He looks like Marcelo from SNL, he looks like Marcelo the comedian.

Rob, can you pull up Marcelo from SNL? Pull up Marcelo from SNL for people to realize Marcelo right there. He is one of the biggest comedians in America for SNL. Maybe one of the funniest guys in the world. I would put Vinny as very funny, but this guy's up there as well. Phenomenal work that he does. You guys look like you're twins, if not cousins or relatives. That looks like your brother right there.

It really looks like, man. And by the way, he's the best comedian on SNL. The best comedian on SNL. Again, gang, follow the story, stay close to everybody. Brazil, US, share this message with other people as well. God bless everybody. Take care, bye bye, bye bye.