PBD Podcast - Who Is Nick Fuentes? | PBD Podcast | Ep. 654

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Patrick Bet-David interviews Nick Fuentes, the "America First" commentator who rose from college activist to online conservative figure. They discuss his political journey, clashes with conservative institutions, deplatforming, immigration, and his views on Israel, past controversies, and reflections following Charlie Kirk’s memorial.-------Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH NICK FUENTES ON MINNECT: http://bit.ly/4ngmknlⓂ️ JOIN THE PBD PODCAST CIRCLES COMMUNITY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP⁠⁠🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📰 VTNEWS.AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!ABOUT US:Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Your opinion of me, I'm Middle Eastern married to a white girl. Do you think it's better off for America to minimize more of me coming to America? America's no longer America. Mass migration is changing what America is. And I want to conserve what America historically has always been. Well, that's a little bit, you know, that's a little bit harsh. Well, I'm not in favor of interracial marriages.

That's against my values. I want to have a white wife. I want to have white kids. That's important to me. That's kind of racist. I agree. Okay. But let's remember the context.

How bad is the video? Is it appropriate to just show? You could pull it up. Rob, can you pull it up? I'm actually curious on how bad the video is. It's funny search query. I'm not sorry because this is a political attack. This is how political control is maintained.

So when you go a week ago and you're like, you don't need to do it. Dropping the N-word. How is your approach going to change moving forward? I don't think there's much that needs to change. I've seen the tweets. I've seen the videos. I don't platform trolls. But how are you processing this?

I'm going to tell you the truth. I thought there were things about the memorial that were distasteful. I did not like him when he was alive. I'll be honest with you. Listen, you're going to the dark side of the way you're going right now. Is that kind of where you're going or not at all? I didn't even want to do the show at that time. I was looking for an off ramp.

At that point, they were trying to knock me out. It made me want to stay in the game. I got it. Okay. So the obvious question is, why would you put Nick Fuentes on your podcast? Why would you do that? My lawyers, don't do it. You know what's a great thing?

I don't have sponsorship to lose. I don't have to worry about an investor saying they're not in. No. And me, for my entire career, I'll talk to anybody. And a reason why I wanted to speak to him is because this interview happened. the day after me leaving Charlie Kirk's memorial, which was the most magical revival I've been in my entire life, Charlie was 31, he's in his mid to late 20s,

and I feel what we need today more than anything else is to continue talking to each other. And if we don't learn about each other, what are we going to do? Hate, misinformed, agitate, divide, continue to call each other out, and create this temperature to go higher and higher and higher? No, guess what? You know what podcast I did with this guy?

I don't know if there's a podcast that you'll learn how he became who he became. What caused him to go from being a pro-Thomas solo guy, pro-Prager Yu, to grow at Daily Wire, who he was hanging out, what I think they even liked each other. At one point, I became a Jew, converted, and then did certain things,

and some retweets, some incidents with Ben, that the temperature elevated one after another after and in one video while he's at a university at this leadership institute where the camera is kind of angled and this girl records him saying something about blacks that goes viral

he gets blocked from all the conservative interviews and at a young age he goes from here to the entire whole different level and I asked him a couple questions who are you more concerned about Jews in America or Muslims? His answer is very interesting I asked them who's a big

net positive, Jews or Muslims. You're going to be surprised by the answer. It's a technical answer, but we had a very good conversation in that exchange. And then a lot of the stuff of where he's at right now, Charlie Kirk, how did Charlie Kirk inspire you? What did he inspire you? And he revealed something I've not heard him talk about before. But all in all, I actually think here's what's going to be interesting. I actually think his audience is going to like it. I think conservatives are going to like it because you're finally getting to know who this guy is, I actually think, it's going to sound weird, I think Jews and Israel's going to like it. That's kind of crazy.

Yes, I actually believe that. But having said that, I hope you enjoy getting to know this individual that is both loved by Groypers and hated by many. And if you're like me, you're in the middle 20% that just doesn't have a clue who the guy is, I hope you get to know him better by the time this interview, this podcast is done, with Nick Fuentes. You are a one-of-one? I think I've ever said this before. Okay, so we're finally doing this. Yes, finally.

A lot of people are like, I don't think he's ever going to do it. Have him on. You shouldn't have him on lawyers. Never have them on. This is not good. You're going to be tied in a group. You're in a good place. So that makes me want to talk to the guy.

But let me tell you, yesterday I'm at Charlie Cook, memorial, obviously the late great Charlie Kirk. I'm there. A couple comes up to me. Okay. I'm standing next to Adam and Vinny's there and my two boys, Dylan and Tico are there. This couple comes, can I take a picture with you? Yes, of course. We take a picture. And then the guy gets a little too close to me, a little bit uncomfortable, but he didn't seem like a weird guy. Hey, I don't know if you paid attention. He has stopped seeing the N-word. Please have him on. I said, who are you talking about? He says, Nick, Nick is stop saying the N-word.

I said, no, he said it a lot a week ago. He said, no, he slowed down. He actually reacted. I said, well, we're going to have a conversation. I said, you're probably the first to know that we're having a conversation, and then obviously you're here. Appreciate you for coming out and making the time. Yeah, absolutely.

So, Nick, I don't know much about you except for the clips I've seen, respectfully. To me, the way I've made my money over the last, you know, whatever, 25 years in insurance and finance was watching. who has talent. And I would watch somebody, I would say, this guy's got what it takes, right? First time I had Charlie Kirk on at 23 years old, I said there's something very special about this guy.

At 23, I came to my insurance company, I said, this guy's going to be the president one day. Watch this guy closely. First time I watched Tucker, unbelievable talent, when you watch him, humor, sarcasm, intelligence, pushing back, subtle, he's making fun of you. You don't know it. The audience knows it.

He knows the art. Candice Talent Dave Smith Talent We used to have a comedian Working here called Marcelo Hernandez Who is now on SNL I don't know if you know who he is or not Incredible. He used to produce

Adam's show And I said this guy's gonna do some special Now he's on SNL Vinny Talent I see you the way you communicated Very very talented Very capable, very talented And I've expressed this before

On the show before But I want to know a little bit more about how you became who you are today And I will cover a lot of different topics So go to high school, 14 years old, who was Nick Fuentes? Well, at 14 years old, I was already very political. I've been political since, really, I was 12 years old. Why is that?

Well, I just started to develop an interest in politics. There were a lot of political conversations happening due to the rise of Obama, actually, in 2008, 2012. And I wanted to know basically everything about it. You know, when you turn around that age, you start to ask questions about the world. and how we all got here and, you know, about things that happened before. And so the first thing I ever watched, actually, was Thomas Sowell on Uncommon Knowledge with, I think it's Peter Robinson. Yeah, they're both excellent from the Hoover Institute. And that was actually the first thing I ever watched.

And I just devoured it. I devoured everything. At 12. Yeah, 12, 13, 14. Who introduced you to Thomas Sowell? I just Googled it. A buddy of mine in school was telling me about the private sector. I said, what is the private sector?

You know, what is the economy? And so I just Googled it on YouTube and that was the first thing that came up and I watched the whole thing and it was just, I was enamored by it. And I told my mom, I said, I want Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. That was the first political book I ever read

and one day came home from school and it was there on my bed and I read it. First book is Free to Choose. Yes. Capitalism, Free Market Capitalism and he was, it's really him and Thomas, I think he came before Thomas did, right? He did, yes.

Yeah, well, he was from the Chicago school. So it was Friedman, So, and all the others. And so I read all that stuff in middle school and high school. And at that time, I was really a libertarian because that's just what was out there at that time. That was during the Ron Paul Revolution. And the Fed. Right, and the Fed.

And there was so much online digital content, this is early 2010s, that was being put out by young libertarians. So that's just what was out there and what was available. And so I worked through all of the basic economics by Thomas Sowell and read about all the Chicago School, even than the Austrian school, the really more libertarian economic stuff. And in high school, I was in Model UN, student council, speech team. I was very active in high school and, you know, one of those precocious auto-didact type young guys. And were you like this, were you dis vocal? Oh, yeah.

Were you disintense? Yes. So did you get in trouble a lot? Did you get in a lot of fights? Did you get picked on? Did you have bullies? I was very outspoken. I was very extroverted about politics.

I was always getting in political debates in class and in Model U.N. But I didn't really get in trouble as much. What's really funny, this might interest you actually, and I've talked about this before, but when I was in Model U.N., I was one of the best guys on the team. I would win first place every week. Because if you don't know, Model United Nations, you go, you simulate the United Nations General Assembly or the different committees. And it's like role play.

It's like a role play game, but for the United Nations. And anyway, so I was one of the better guys on the team, and my junior year of high school, I became the head of the team. I became the secretary general of the team. But I had a major falling out with the guy that ran the team. He was ethnically Arab, I think, extremely pro-Palestine. And I, at that time, was very pro-Israel. I was on Prager University and Breitbart. And so I downloaded all the dogma from the conservative movement at that time. And so I remember, we were sitting in the study hall one day, and they had all the flags of the world hanging up on the ceiling. And I said, why do we have the Iranian flag hanging up? I said, they're the number one state sponsor of terrorism in the world. It shouldn't be up. And he told me, you got to read the Israel lobby by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. He said, you got to look at the other side.

And we had this, like, vicious back and forth about it. And that is kind of the only major problem I had with faculty over politics. So he was faculty. Yes. Okay. So how many years older was he from you? Oh, he must have been his 40s. And this school, walk me through the demo of the school.

Is it a public school? Is it a private school? It was a pretty affluent public school, mostly white, outside in the suburbs of Chicago. Naperville, what area? It was a lion's township in Western Springs, LaGrange. So it's not like it's Chicago, Chicago. It's a good area of Chicago, mostly white. and would you say politically center-left, don't care, Republican?

What would you say the demo was? I would say it's pretty center-left. It's very Catholic, some Catholic, some Protestant. But what was interesting about it was very liberal, but not leftist, not very progressive. So even though we were in the middle of very progressive revolution under Obama, I mean, these guys were all liberal, but they weren't communist. It wasn't like New York or Portland. So what year is this when you were junior in high school?

This would make it what? 2015. Okay, so this is, has Trump yet announced anything? So he announced August 2015. So it's actually right around that time. Got it. Okay, so you're there, you're getting into these debates in junior year, and then Trump announces, and then what do you do? So after Trump announced, this is right around the time, so actually he announced in June 2015. And so I was very political, obviously super engaged with the election. And at that time, so this was going into my senior year of high school. I had a radio show on the high school radio station and a TV show on the high school TV station. I did both. And one of my first shows I've ever done in my whole life was talking about

the election. And that was a very crowded primary. It was like 17 candidates. I don't know if you remember back then. It was Trump in this huge field. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah, it was everybody. And so I went through all the candidates. And initially, I was very anti-Trump because I was a libertarian. So I was in it for Rand Paul and then Ted Cruz. And it was. And it was, wasn't until April or March 2016, about seven months in to my senior year, that I really went in hard for Trump. And Trump, I would say, is the one who red-pilled me, quote-unquote. Out of all these guys. These are the guys we're looking at, right? Right. That was a, Jeb Boyce started with $140 million. He was supposed to win it. Carson had a little bit of

momentum. Cruz was one of the guys that people thought could do something. Right. Nobody thought Trump up until I think Anne Coulter's like, who do you think today's going to win if she made the comment that I think it's going to be Trump on Bill Maher, but he starts laughing. Right. Okay, so during this moment, Trump redpills you first. Yes. He redpils me on immigration, really, because at that time, I am preoccupied with this notion of individualism, very much like you.

I mean, a lot of the stuff you say in your show, I agree with you 100%. I guess he reoriented my perspective about individualism. Because what I started to understand is that you remember. member. In 2015, it felt like the left was unstoppable. It felt like Obama and then Hillary Clinton were going to lead this progressive revolution, and it was just going to get more left every day forever. More pro-woman, more pro-gay, more diverse. And at that time, what felt so suffocating was this kind of political chokehold the country was in. The media's left wing, Hollywood's left wing, the press is left wing. And what woke me up about Trump is one day I was watching the

primaries, early primary elections, and Trump was winning all of them. He didn't win the Iowa caucus, but he won in New Hampshire, one in Nevada. And I remember the media was beside themselves, calling it every day for him. And I said, the one thing that Trump has right is he understands, in order to take power, well, in order to do what you want to do, you got to take power first. In order to take power, you have to engage the media, because the media is really the enemy. So a very early kind of understanding of how politics actually works. And fake news, he hasn't even said fake news yet.

So this is pre him saying fake news. Exactly. But he would fight the moderators in the debates, even Fox News, because Roger Ailes had it out for him early on. And I said he's going to fight the mainstream media. That's essential. Because if you can't fight the media, you can't win. If you don't win, you can't do what you want. And then I thought about immigration and how it's affecting the voting patterns.

Because I looked at one meme in 2016, and it said, this is what the 2012 election would look like if only white men voted, if only men voted. I'm sure everybody's seen it. And what became clear is that if only non-white people are voting, they vote 90% left. Blacks voted 97% for Obama in 2008 in 2012. If immigration is making the country less white, and if non-white people only vote Democrat, Asians is like 75% Hispanics. It's like 75% Hispanics. that time, 70% blacks, 90%. I said, it's clear where the country's going to go, what direction this is headed in. I said so, and the reason this is happening is because these people aren't assimilating. So before we can even think about individualism, the Constitution, et cetera, we got to take out the media. And by take out, you know, what I mean by that is you got to fight back. And two, you have to secure the border. Because if the Democrats bring in all these illegals and legal immigrants, they're going to flip Texas. And that's the way it's going to go. And that was kind of the first realization. That's what made me say

I'm all in it for Trump, even though ideologically I wasn't really with him just yet. Because you're a libertarian at the time. Right. Okay, I'm following. So now you're all in for Trump. He's the closest thing to a libertarian. I don't know, I don't think it was Joe Jorgensen, right? Who was a candidate at the time for a libertarian?

Right. So you're not going to go Gary Johnson, right? I think he got, is he the one that didn't know the capital of a country? I don't know what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. And it's like, oh my God, this guy can't be in and then they moved on. That was an easy one for him. So you're in that moment. I'm going to go all Trump. What happens next? So I go all Trump and I'm a big Trump guy. I get my MAGA hat and I'm all excited about it and I volunteer for the campaign and everything.

And so he wins the primary in the spring of 2016. Convention happens, I think, July 2016. I enter college at Boston University in September 2016. And this is the first time I've lived outside Chicago. I've lived in the same place my whole life. And it's important to impress upon you and maybe everybody like where I grew up. It's like this pocket of America that never changed. It's a baseball town. Everybody's white. Everybody's obsessed with baseball. Everybody's Catholic. So growing up, I'm going to CCD, which is like Catechism class for Catholics. Everybody loves baseball. There's an annual parade where you go and eat hot dogs and play baseball. So this is a place that is untouched by, like I said, even though they're liberal,

they're not even really progressive. It's untouched by the progressive politics, by a lot of the diversity, even the crime. It's safe, white picket fences. Take a trip down to Western Springs, Illinois. I mean, you'll see what I mean. It's like the land that time forgot. I go to college in Boston, totally different story. Boston's obviously super diverse.

That's a lot of young people because it's all schools, all universities, and they're all from Asia, all foreign students, and they're all Chinese, they're all from these Asian countries. And there's also a little dangerous. There's a little criminal element. And everyone on the campuses, they're militant left wing. And that was kind of a culture shock. And I kind of realized in that moment,

most of the country looks like this now, actually. New York, L.A., Miami, the big cities, and most people live in the cities, they all look like this because of immigration, because of left-wing progressive politics. And I kind of said, in that moment, my slice of America that I grew up with is a dying breed. It's literally going extinct. And I like my upbringing.

I love my upbringing. I want to, if I have a family, I want to raise my kids in a place like that. But in 50 years, will there be places like that? The country's going to become majority minority in the 2030s. So when I'm old and gray and I have grandkids, what is the country they're going to look like? And you're questioning this. You're questioning, you're having this dialogue, you're asking yourself, I'm concerned that I'm going to lose the identity of what it means to be an American.

Is it more that? Is it more Caucasian? Is it more white? What do you mean it's going to lose its identity? It's all of that. It's all of that. That it's not going to be white people. It's not going to be Christian. It's not going to be speaking English. It won't be safe. No baseball. No hot. Like all these different layers of identity are kind of being blown up. Who are you sharing this concern with at the time? Are you talking to friends? mentor, peers, you know, relatives, parents. Who are you talking to about this? It's all my friends in college.

Okay, so this is not B.U. You're talking to that. And are they agreeing, disagreeing? What are they saying to you? Well, we all basically agreed. So we all met at the, there was a watch party for the first debate between Trump and Clinton, all three of us, four of us. We were the only Trump supporters on the whole campus. And we all met at this watch party. Is this the one that said you'd be in jail? No, that's the second one, right? Yes, that's the second one. So it was at the first one. We all met.

And we developed this kind of tight-knit friendship. What month is this? Is this September of 15? September 16th. September 16th. Okay, got it, got it. Right. And so, you know, we all get together and it was interesting at that time, and this was

kind of like a cultural moment, is that remember that Trump, when he came around, there was just this explosion on the right wing. They called it the alternative right. That had a very different connotation in 2016 that it did in 17. Because in 16 and even 2015, what it meant, up to that point, the GOP and conservatism, meant kind of like one thing. It meant like Rick Santorum, like cultural conservatism, traditional... Right, all that kind of stuff. And Trump comes along and says, well, I'm kind of agnostic on health care.

You know, we just want to take care of everybody. He was more of a Pat Buchanan and Sam Francis like nationalist. And so there was this explosion on 4chan and on Twitter of a lot of young. right-wing guys that were asking, well, what does it mean to be right-wing? And so there's guys like Stefan Malinu and Jared Taylor and Stephen Pinker and Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. All these guys come into the fold and it's much more aggressive. It's younger. It's more dynamic. It's a lot of new ideas or maybe old ideas presented in a new way. And so we were kind of holding like this salon, like this intellectual salon at the Tasty Burger by Fenway, talking about all these new people

that are coming around. Richard Spencer, for that matter, Peterson. And ideas like race realism, like Western chauvinism, people like Gavin McInnis. And we were all kind of developing our ideas and what we thought was right. And ironically, none of these guys were even white. One of them was Turkish. One of them was actually Assyrian. I know you're Assyrian. Who was that?

He's an Assyrian guy from Australia. Yeah, some young man. Was he a Christian man or no? He was Christian. A Syrian man from Australia. Interesting. And one of them was Jewish even. And so he was Russian-Jewish.

And a lot of people say about me, I mean, I'm an American ethnic. I'm not English or German. Fuentes. What's Fuentes? Mexican. And who's your dad's Mexican? My father's half Mexican, yes. What's his other half?

Irish. And then mom? She's all Italian. All Italian. Parents, when we're talking to the crew, they're telling me that mom had some influence political. Is it mom-dad had more influence politically or dad? I really wasn't too influenced in that way.

Really more by my grandmother, by my mom's mother. She was very conservative. Who did she believe in? Who was her heroes? She would say, Nick, you got to follow this guy. Nick, you got to read this book. Nick, you got to watch this. Who would she talk about?

She loved Mark Levin. I got it. Okay. So super safe, conservative, pro-Israel. This is who your grandmother was. Okay. So now let's fast forward to where you're at with Trump. He's there.

You're in view. You're talking to these guys. Jordan Peterson, Gavin McGuinness, a Syrian guy from Australia, even one guy that's Turkish, Jewish. You're talking to all these guys. What is that looking like? What's happening with you at that time? So we're debating. We're really kind of getting down into what it means to be right wing. Because like I said, I'm having this evolution. I was libertarian from like 12 to 17. Trump kind of changed the way. I think about things. Then I'm in college and I'm meeting these people and I'm on Twitter. I'm looking at all these new intellectual figures. And we're debating, for example, the idea of race.

immigration is the issue of 2016 we're talking about illegal immigration legal immigration and we're talking about the really the big topic is the demographic change America was a white country it's becoming a non-white country through immigration and we're talking about the impact that that's going to have what does it really mean for us yes they're going to vote Democrat probably will they vote Democrat forever yeah they're not quite like us can they ever be like us what does it mean to be white versus black or white versus any other race for that matter. And we kind of get into the idea, I guess maybe the big idea is the politics of identity, that politics maybe is less about, whereas

libertarians are obsessed with individualism, which is an abstract concept, the individual as relates to the state. This is abstract. We're now talking about the politics of identity, which is concrete, which is particular, not general, not abstract, but concrete in particular. You have white people and black people. They come from specific places and they bring with them their genetics. They bring with them their culture, their way of doing things. And we're saying we less believe in conservatism than we believe in America specifically. And that was kind of, I guess, the big pivot I made. And that's why I started my show, which was called America First, which was this nationalistic show as opposed to libertarian or conservative. Okay. So you start your show,

America First, you're pro-Trump, you're supportive of Trump, you're going through what you're going through. Give me a couple inflection points where you start kind of flipping and you're no longer pro-Israel. What were some of those events? Was it a book? Was it a conversation? Was it things you studied? What was that like? Well, the biggest thing is that I met this girl named Cassie Dillon. She was a fellow at Daily Wire. She now goes by Cassie Akiva. So she was in school around the same time. She was in Western Massachusetts studying. And we met because we ran in the same college Republican circles. And she's the one that got me this show at RSBN, Riteside Broadcasting Network. Yes, that's her. She's still with Daily Wire. Yeah, she was there, she left, and then she came back.

Okay. And so, you know, I met her, and at that time, she was a Christian. She converted to Judaism. She married a Jewish guy and converted. When I met her, she was a Christian, or she had been raised Christian. And we became very good friends. You know, we went, to the Christmas party, and we hung out, and I went on her show, and she got me my show. Nothing like an attractiveness, just a friendship. It might have been going in that direction, but no, nothing like that materialized. So, yeah, we were just friends. And I started to notice something was up because Trump's doctrine was America first, and that

was so attractive to me. He said, we will no longer be misled by the Siren Song of Globalism. It's going to be Americanism, not globalism. And that really sunk into me. And I'll never forget, this was in December 2016. This is what did it for me. And I wrote an article about it on my blog. I had a blog at that time.

And I noticed that Obama, who was still the president during the lame duck period, he told our ambassador to the United Nations not to veto a resolution condemning the West Bank settlements. So there's a resolution saying Israel's settlements and the West Bank are illegal. Normally, the United States vetoes that on behalf of Israel to protect them. But Obama instructed our ambassador to abstain. And so the resolution went through. And everybody on the right wing said Obama's an anti-Semite. He hates Jews because he did that.

And I said, wait a second. I went through and I did the research. And I said, ever since 1967, during the Six-Day War, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it has been the official U.S. policy that we do not support the civilian settlements. That's technically illegal under international law. I said, so all Obama did was really uphold the same policy that every president did, Republican and Democrat, yet they're calling him a Jew hater. I said, I don't think Obama hates Jews. Obama's supported by the Jewish left. People like Saul Olinsky mentored him or influenced him.

So I don't think he hates Jews. I think that he's just carrying out our policy. And so I said, how is that any different than when, let's say, a conservative critiques BLM, they get called the racist. You critique feminism. You could call the sexist. Were you working at that time? Were you working anywhere? You're independent.

I was independent. Okay, so you're not with anybody while you're writing this. Right. So you're free to write and say whatever you want. Okay, continue. Yeah, so I was just on my own blog. And so I wrote that out. I said, this is hypocritical.

I said, and this is something that crops up over and over is this double standard when it comes to anti-Semitism, when it comes to Israel. And I called this out. And Cassie Dillon, who was my friend, I would raise this issue with her. And I would criticize Ben Shapiro very harshly. He was very anti-Trump at that time. And I said, I think Ben Shapiro is Israel first.

And I think that when Trump says in his inaugural, it's America first, why is it that Israel gets all this foreign aid? They're the number one recipient for 50 years. They're not a poor country. Why is it that much largesse? And so I would press her on this and other related questions. And eventually she threw arms up in I think it was March 2017. And she said, we are no longer in the same movement. She said, you are anti-Israel.

The way you're going about, this is anti-Semitic. This is, yeah, Cassie Dullet. She goes, you are, you're attacking Shapiro and in an anti-Semitic way, I don't like your tone. She said, and I really want nothing to do with you anymore. And so she blocked me on Twitter. And my whole friend group, who was with DailyWire, Elliot Hamilton, Aaron Bandler, all these other writers of DailyWire,

they all blocked me, they would not talk to me. And then... Now, you guys all know each other. You've hung out on your friends. Yes. In what context do you guys hang out? Because you're not with Daily Wire. Right.

So we would hang out at, we hung out at the Christmas party for the Massachusetts College Republicans that she hosted. I did her show a couple of times. So you did do her show on Daily Wire? Not on Daily Wire in RSBN. Okay. Got it. Okay.

Yeah. And so. So they all block you. They want to have nothing to do with you at the time. Right. We're not on the same page. We're going a different direction. Has she had converted to Judaism or not yet?

She's still a Christian at the time. She had begun the conversion at that point. And were you seeing the evolution of that happening? I was, yes. Was she seeing somebody while you guys were talking or no? I don't believe she was. But she had been to Israel a bunch of times. So why was she wanting to convert?

Why was she going through that process? What was her reasoning? Did she tell you? No, we never discussed it on an intimate level. So till today, you guys have never cleared it up why she became a... Never, no. Well, maybe she can send you an email because I want to know. I'm curious to know why that happens.

I'd want to know why that happened. Okay, so, okay, so now when that happens, you're in August 18, when's your birthday? August 18th. Okay, so what's the first emotion you're getting? You're by yourself. She tells you this. Everybody gets blocked. What is it?

Is it anger? Is it resentment? Is it I'm going to get them? Is it vengeance? What's the first emotion you're feeling? I was stunned. I was honestly just shocked because, you know, very. the idea on the right wing is we're the marketplace of ideas. And so nothing's off

limits and you're supposed to bring your best ideas and you debate them out. That's the whole program. And so to get such a cold and frosty response, it was actually a little disturbing because it's like, you know, I slept over at her sister's apartment. I went to her Christmas party. We hung out. We disagree on this issue, which by the way, isn't even an American issue. It's not like we had a falling out because I became some communist or anything to do with America, it's because I didn't support a foreign country. And I said, you know, even if we disagree on the issue, we can't even talk to each other or be friends personally. Forget about even professionally working together. I was stunned at how she turned into like, there was like

this transformation. And then I got angry. And I would talk about this on my show. I would, I would kind of go on the show and it, it made me lean into the issue. Because I said, clearly, something is here. Like it's being treated differently than other issues. Is that, would you say, at that time, you're how old, 19 years old-ish? I was 18. 18 years old. Okay. Up until that time, have you ever been offended the way you were offended by Cassie?

At that level, that kind of a pain, that kind of a... I don't think so, no. Okay. So that's the first moment where, like, what do you mean? I'm just being reasonable. I'm just questioning things. What's wrong with that? Why do you not want to have a relationship?

So that's the feeling you have at the time. So you're going in on it. You're getting stronger and more vocal. Who are you, in your mind, are you saying this is because Benz in her ear? Who in your mind at 18 years old are you saying this is why she flipped? Who are you thinking about? I don't think I was thinking about it in that way. I didn't even really have a concept of in what way they were organized.

And by that, I mean the pro-Israel lobby or influence operation. I had no mental model of what that looked like. So to me, it just came across as group think. To me, it came across as that's a dogmatic plank of conservatism, and I didn't really see it as maybe proceeding from a higher level or anything like that. Got it. But are you at the time, are you calling on saying, why did this happen? What was this all about? Are you asking your peers?

Why would you, why were they not talking to me? Was there a, so from that moment to you having some sort of animosity or whatever word you want, want to use animosity or frustration towards Ben. What is the timeline from that moment 18 to frustration and animosity towards Ben? Why it already had animosity towards him? Why is that? So in December, some months before, I put out a tweet on Twitter, and I had about a thousand followers on Twitter, a thousand. Think of that's not a big account. And I tweeted, I said, if you put China over America, you should go to China. If you put Mexico over America, you should go to Mexico. You see where this is going. I said, if you put Israel over America, you should go live in

Israel. Shapiro quote tweeted that and said, accusing Jews of dual loyalty is the surest sign that you're an anti-semit. Had a thousand followers? Why would you retweet that? Someone must have sent it to him. Does he know anything about you at the time? Like, are you a formidable name in a circle that he would know about you? He had been tipped off about me because Cassie Dillon had filmed this debate I did on She live-streamed it on Twitter, and he saw it. And she texted him and said, you've got to take this guy under your wing. He's unbelievable. He's the next big thing.

He's a little Trumpy, she goes, because they hated Trump at that time. Who was their candidate? I know there were DeSantis 2020, but who were they, 2024, but who were they during that time? In 16, they were for Rubio, Cruz. Oh, Cruz. Cruz was it back at that time. I remember that. Okay.

So she says you got to go because he's a little bit Trumpy, and then what says to respond to her? He said, I'll take a look at him. I'll take a look at his stuff. And she told you that. So she said to you, I told Ben he should, and he said, he'll take a look at you. She sent me the screenshot, yeah. Oh, wow.

Okay. So now this is starting to make sense. So at this point, while you're going through this, when you put that tweet out, were you directing it towards him or not at all? It was a general blanket statement. It was a blanket statement. So it was nothing like a little bit 10% was towards Ben. I didn't tag him or anything.

I know, but were you like saying this is towards him? Because if you're saying, you know, the feeling, When did you first get a feeling that Ben is Israel first? It was, you know, it was right around the time that I realized that there was a lot of Israel first. So it was just before December of, what would it be, 16? It was around that time. So you're kind of going through this process where you're like, I think Ben is Israel first. I don't know why he's not supporting Trump and he's going more Ted.

And maybe Ted would be more pro-Israel. even we saw the conversation with Ted and on, what do you call it, Tucker a couple months ago, which I thought it was a great show on both ends. I actually liked watching it. I think it was good for the viewership. So you're talking to her. What is your goal in mind with her? Do you have any goal in my life? Do you want her to convert to your way of thinking?

Are you trying to kind of tell her, man, listen, you're going to the dark side of the way you're going right now? Is that kind of where you're going or not at all? I was just, at that point, I wasn't even sure that I was right about any of it. I was earnestly asking. Got it. Okay. And saying, like, when I said, why do we give Israel this much money? At that time, that was not a rhetorical question.

Because now it sort of is. When we say, why does Israel get more money? It's sort of a rhetorical begging the question because they have this extraordinary influence. At that time, I was earnestly wondering, is there a reason? Is there a justified good reason that there is this special relationship between the countries, because that is what she believed. And, you know, they would give these answers, but I would debate. I would say, well, here's why that doesn't stand up. Here's why that doesn't make sense. And they became frustrated that I wouldn't let that go. Okay, so Ben retweets

a guy's tweet with only a thousand followers. But he knows about you because Cassie already told him that you should take this guy under your wings and he could be somebody. Has been married at the time? I don't know. Can you see what's been married in December of 2016, right, December of 2016? It's been married in 2016. Okay. So he's already married. So, okay, so he's already married. He's got his family. He's doing his thing. This happens. She steps away. You can't believe it. So that relationship is gone. Do you all of a sudden just go, boom double down on it on uh uh you know points against israel is that kind of where it goes are you still subtle about it at that point i was still somewhat subtle about it at least publicly

when when when did you go full on because if i'm not mistaken i mean you saw like the the arguments against israel happened a lot in the last since october 7th right charlie crook was sitting right here where you're sitting at in our other building but in that seat and it was three days or four days after October 7. I think we were the first podcast he did where he actually questioned. How is it? You ask very fair questions. We're like, that's actually a very good question.

How do you say you have the best intel, yet you're able to get them to attack you? You can't have one or the other, right? So innocent questions people are asking. I'm not speculating. I'm not saying anything. All I'm saying is, it's a good question for us to ask. So it wasn't like he was being anti-Semitic. He's purely asking a question, right?

When did you go to that level? to the level of asking questions or beyond that? Beyond that. Beyond that, I would say it would have to be later that year. So later in the spring or summer of that year. That year is 2017. 2017. Okay, so why 2017? Well, like I said, I had been on this journey when I got into college and started asking these questions. And then I encountered this very political response, which is to say that they started to treat me as an adversary politically, instead of like an interlocutor, instead of like I was debating them about this. And, you know, the next step in that, of course, is that here's the best part.

They didn't leave me alone. It's not like they said, we can't be friends. You do your thing. We do our thing. I got to call a couple weeks after the fact from my boss at RSBN. So I was doing the show America First on YouTube. This is a small company at this time run by Jacob and Joe Seals. They founded it.

I get a call from Joe Seals, who runs the company, and he says, what's going on with you and Cassie? I said, well, we had this falling out. You know, she told me she doesn't want to be my. friend anymore. Is Cassie a big name that people know who she is? She was a rising star. She wasn't big at that time. She had 20,000 followers. So she wasn't anybody, but he calls me up and says, the reason I'm asking is because she has been calling me every day for the past two weeks complaining about you and saying, did you see what he said on his show? That's so racist. Did you see what he said on his show? Asking to pull my show off

the air. Got it. And then it was a couple months later that the first hit piece ever, was written about me by Media Matters. And I strongly believe, and I believe there was evidence for this at one point that she sent in a clip from my show to Media Matters for America, left-wing organization. So what is

the worst thing you've said? At that time, what is the worst thing you've said? Have you said anything? You've said some crazy things. I mean, I've read some of the stuff that you said. Half the time, I don't know if you're doing it because you're trying to get on their people's skin if you fully believe it or you're trolling. I don't know. Could be

of those things, only you know what you're doing at the time, when you're making certain comments. But what is the most vile, extreme thing that some people may say you've said up until that point that's causing Cassie to message media matters and others saying, you have to see what this guy's saying. Up to that point, and this was the subject of the article, I was talking about the Muslim ban. And I said the Trump Muslim ban, the travel ban. I said, the First Amendment does not apply to radical Muslims. I said, you don't have a First Amendment right to preach Wahhabist. Salafist ideology, which is, that's the theology of ISIS.

So you're defending Trump? Yes. Okay. That's the worst thing you've said? That was the subject of the article. That was the worst thing I said. So you've not said, so why would she be against that, though? She was in favor of that.

So then what is she forwarding to media matters for them to write? Because she knew that, because it's a left-wing organization, that they would use that to try to get me canceled or banned. It would be negative. And you know this for. fact that she emailed it? I don't want to put anything. You know for a fact that she's the one that reached out. I heard it's secondhand, so I don't know it absolutely. So we don't know for a fact. We're just saying you're speculating. She may have done that, but you know that the other person

that called you saying for the last two weeks, you know that for a fact. That's firsthand. Absolutely. Okay, fair enough. So, so this happens. This comes back to you. This time around, are you going, if you went from zero to 20, are you going 20 to 80 or are you going 20 to 50 now? I would say I was going 20 to 50 at that point. So what's the next move you're making when you start hearing this? Well, when this stuff started to happen, I actually was almost going to get fired. They almost fired me for that hit piece. From the RSBN.

Okay, got it. And the funny thing is, I didn't even want to do the show at that time. I was looking for an off-ramp. I didn't want to do the show. I wanted to kind of move on because I didn't get a lot of viewership. But at that point, they were trying to knock me out. So it made me want to stay in the way. the game. This guy that called you, Nick, who was your boss, the RSPN guy, is he a good guy in your

eyes? He's a good guy. So you have a relationship with him until today, or you guys don't talk, but you're saying he's a good guy. I haven't talked to him, but he's a good guy. But he's a good guy. Okay, so this is not a bad guy. This is a level-headed guy. Okay. So now you're sitting there thinking about getting rid of you, you're not getting a lot of eyeballs with their show, the platform that they have. It's not performing as well as you think it was. What happens next? So they take the show off the air around May 2017. Then they say, well, our fans, they have like a very small, loyal group of followers on their YouTube channel. They said the fans are demanding we bring your show back. They said, we'll make it work for you. You could do it three days a week instead

of five, et cetera. I said, all right. I said, I'll come back. So I did a show in May 29th. That's what was my comeback show. What happens later, the next kind of big shoe to drop, a lot of people would think it's Charlottesville, because I did wind up at Charlottesville in August of 17 later that in the summer. But what a lot of people don't know is that there was a lot of stuff that happened before then, which is that I go to the Leadership Institute for a job training, Leadership Institute. I don't know if you're familiar. No, I'm not.

So they're a think tank in D.C. Conservative or not? Very conservative. Morton Blackwell is a founder. And they create all these conservative activists that go on campus and they create campus organizations. So many, many leadership institute people will get training from that group, and then they go and start a college Republican chapter, a turning point chapter. So who would be a comparable of a leadership institute to today?

Would TPSA be a competitor of theirs, or no, they're more like a Hillsdale, are they? They're very similar to turning point. Okay, got it. Got it. Okay. So you're going there, and alumni includes folks like James O'Keefe, Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell. It's okay. Conservatives at Gunner, James O'Keefe. So it's not like it's just people that are maybe some would call rhinos. James O'Keefe is somebody that's he's pushed against the envelope many times. So you're there, you're thinking about going to that place. What happens next?

So I go there for a job training, and I'm thinking about dropping out of college and working for Leadership Institute. I go there for a job training. It's about two weeks. And it's in D.C. and you stay there in like a bunk, dormitory style living. and for two weeks it's sort of this like boot camp and they try to see what you're made of. It's a training to see if you're going to be a field representative where you go across the country for three months and set up these campus conservative chapters. That's why I go there and the first day that I'm there, they have everybody go up and down and introduce themselves and they say, tell us your name, where you're from, and why you're a conservative. First day of a two-week training.

And they call on me and I say, I'm Nick Fuentes. I said, and I'm a conservative. because our country is becoming unrecognizable. I said, you know, France is no longer France. Paris is no longer Paris. America is no longer America. Mass migration is changing what America is. I said, and I want to conserve what America historically has always been.

Now, the first day that I say that, it turns out the instructor is a Lebanese immigrant. She hates the statement. She takes my application and throws it in the garbage. But she doesn't tell me that. So I'm there for the whole two weeks, but I'm already. disqualified. Christian, Jewish, Muslim. She's a Christian? I assume she was Christian. Lebanese immigrant. Right. You remember that person's name? I don't remember her name. Okay. But how do you know she did that? Because I had a friend that worked the training. He was Polish, Catholic, very hard right, and he told me. That's exactly what happened.

Okay. Do you know why? Why? She canceled. Because she took offense that I said something against immigration. Hi, I'm Nick Fuentes. If you want to text me or call me or ask me a question, you can find me on Mnacht. Okay. So now we're going to comments you made about immigration, which is more nationalism, pro-America. You know, I want to protect it. I don't want America to be a majority minority by 2030s. I want us to keep our identity that we have. Okay. So she's offended by that. So now you can't go here. Well, and it gets better. So that's day number one. Why are you a conservative? Because immigration's changing the country. She hates it, disqualifies me. Now, I'm still there for two weeks. trying to get a job that I'm never going to get because I'm already, she already threw my application away. Well, the final day, this is the best part, final day of the training, we all, all the applicants had become kind of like a tight-knit group. We're all friends. We're literally living together, so we're sleeping the same dormitory. We're doing these 10-hour job

trainings every day. It's the last day. We already found out who's going to get the job and who isn't. I know I'm not getting the job. And so it's like 3 a.m. our last day, we're all in the common area just hanging out late at night we're talking about politics and at that point they realized I was a pretty far right guy I was maybe more far right than anybody there and we're all talking about politics and it comes up we're talking about interracial relationships and marriage and I said well I'm not in favor of interracial marriages that's against my values I want to have a white wife I want to have white kids that's important to me now there is a girl who is in the group her name was Emily Faulkner Now she's like a big pro-life activist.

She's married. But at that time, she was in this little group. She pulls out her phone, and she starts secretly recording me. She doesn't say anything, but she pulls out her phone, hits record. And she says, so wait a second. She goes, you're saying that if I have sex with a black person, that's the same as having sex with a dog? I said, no, I'm not saying that. I said, but I think race makes things immoral.

I said, I think they'd both be immoral. She takes that clip, along with clips of other things I said, she sends it to Cassie. Dillon, because she knew and apparently was friends with Cassie, unbeknownst to me, Cassie Dillon sends it to a group called Reagan Battalion, and they post that all over Twitter. And it blows up on Twitter, and now I am like officially being canceled because of this secret recording taken at this Leadership Institute job training. Is it a video public to see? It is.

How bad is the video? Is it appropriate to just show? You can pull it up? Rob, can you pull it up? I'm actually curious on how bad the videos. It's on YouTube. What should he put? I don't know. If you pull it up on, it's funny search query.

That's not it. I don't know where you could find it. Rob, you look forward. We'll continue conversation. If you find it, we'll come back to you. Okay. So she sends it, the Reagan battalion posted all over X. At this point, if you had a thousand followers when Ben retweeted you, where are you at now when this happens? So I must have been at maybe three, four thousand followers. Okay. So you're still not somebody that has been. And, you know, you've got 100,000 followers.

You're not at that level yet. Right. Okay. So it's interesting that you're getting under so many people's skin, even though you're not yet that influential. You may be amongst your circle because people probably know you're going to be somebody, you're going to be a player, but in the public eye, they don't know you. So they're trying to defend you early on.

Is that a pretty good description? Yeah, they were trying to throttle me in the club. Okay. So, okay, so that happens. Amy Faulkner sends this to Cassie. Cassie then sends her to Reagan Battalion. Reagan Battalion posted, and now you're saying you're being canceled. Define canceled.

So I'm being blacklisted from everything in the conservative movement. From CPAC, from Turning Point, this is when my name is getting the scarlet letter. I'm officially being kind of kicked out because they're saying, you know, none of these people liked me and they were all attacking me on Twitter constantly, but this was the moment when they said, we got them because this is how this worked back then. Now, obviously, everything goes on Twitter and everybody's controversial. But back then, you had a clip like that, which was perceived as legitimately racist or anti-Semitic, and you're kind of done for it. And that's what they did to me. And it was... Have you yet... I'm sorry to interrupt you. Have you yet walked up to Ben with

his kid crossing the streets with his family or not yet? No, that was years later. That was yours later. Okay. So this is good. Let's keep going with the sequencing. Sure. So that happens. If you went from 10 to 20 when she said, I'm blocking you and a couple of the people the Daily Wire did, then you go to 20 to 50 when you find out about the media matters and a message is being sent out to other places to censor

you claims, but you know the other guy that's being called you saying, this girl keeps calling me, telling me what you said to cancel you the last two weeks. That, you know, for a fact. Then this happens here with Leadership Institute. Then the Amy Faulkner situation video going to Reagan Battalion. Where do you go from here? If it goes 10 to 20,

20 to 50, where are you going? What happened? 50 to 80. Okay. So now it's like, this is when you're born. And how old are you at this time? Just about to turn 19. So you're still 18 and this is what's happening to you. Got it. So what do you do next? So I have to defend myself. This video is going viral. And Ben Shapiro retweeted it, by the way. Ben Shapiro quote tweeted that Reagan battalion video. 100%. Are you positive? 100%. He said, And what did he say? This is very concerning. Is that the video, Rob? Yes, sir. Can I see it Please. Her in your daily, like, existence by Jews.

I told you, yes, absolutely. You laugh at it, like. How so? Can you... Would you say that me having sex with my dog is the same thing as me having sex with a black man? No. But they're both. They would both be degenerate.

Oh. This. Well, that's a little bit, you know. That's a little bit harsh. Well... Could be seen as harsh. Could be seen as disrespectful. If I was an African-American, I would be very annoyed, upset, frustrated, angry with you,

and somebody who could say that is racist. And the average person, and I'm just talking to you, I'm trying to be really hearing you out. I don't have any gotcha stuff for you here. It's going to be a very easy interview as we're going through. That's kind of racist. I agree. Okay. But let's remember the context.

First of all, you saw that. That's a three-second clip. Three-second clip, and you can't even see 80% of the screen. For sure. Because it's being hidden. Now, you and I both know, the way that we talk on a show like this is very, you know, it's like anything. You've got to know your audience. Now, that's a 3 a.m. conversation with 18-year-olds.

I think that we're all talking about, we're all political people. By the way, I'm also with you there, okay, because I'm not one that condones that behavior. I've told my kids, I swear to God, if I ever had a conversation with my boys last week, I said, if I ever hear you, use the N-word, I swear to God, you're not going to like what I do to you, okay? They were going to school, my kids were going to school, one of the best schools in Florida that has the highest SAT, scores and a highest focus on math. The owner of that school's son says the N-Word,

who's a white guy, says the N-word, the father who owns the school, the board decides to kick his own son out of his school. Very weird situation that happens. So we're having this kind of a conversation. And one of my kids just went to Yale for three weeks for some summer camp that somebody else was holding in Yale. But he goes or comes back

slightly different. Language. You're kind of hearing what's going on, right? And I'm 46. I can't judge you because during my time, Instagram didn't exist, Snapchat didn't exist, YouTube didn't exist, phone cameras didn't exist, and let me tell you, there's a lot of stuff we did at nightclubs and Army

and videos were on the way we speak at 2 o'clock in the morning. Maybe not at this level. I've never said anything like this, but I understand that it's riskier. So at a young age, you have to be aware. You're not, you're a very smart guy. You have to be aware that that kind of stuff gets caught, it's going to make it to public.

So one, the responsibilities on you, but two, you have a higher risk you're going through because you're part of the social media family, not social media family, social media generation that we didn't go through at 46. Well, and I learned that lesson the hard way, but what is the lesson? The lesson is that this sort of thing, this is how political control is maintained, which is to say that we have a culture where you don't even have to do anything wrong. If you say anything wrong ever in public and private, even if it's not inherently wrong, if it sounds wrong, someone might be secretly recording and use it to make you look bad and then destroy your career or your reputation. And this is enforced selectively.

Like, let's keep in mind, take Shapiro, for example, and this is something I pointed out when this happened. When Shapiro was 18 or 19 years old, he wrote an article on Town Hall, which said that population transfer is not a dirty one. word. In other words, meaning we need to take all of the Palestinians and kick them out of Israel. He's advocating for ethnic cleansing on his town hall block. Now, you could say whatever you want about that. Population transfer? Yeah, transfer is not a dirty word. Does that mean ethnic cleansing? That's what the article defends, yes. Can you pull it up? I'm curious, because I want to be fair. So is he saying moving them from there to a different place? Yes. fit like you can go to all right so raising your own here's under the ben Shapiro

august terms of 2020 2003 which is 22 years ago raise you in if you have shocked the breakdown of a so-called middle-east roadmap if you're raising your hand give yourself a nice heart slap across the chops maybe that will make you wake up from your reverie of self-education the roadmap was doomed from the start the Arab empty and and I can't see it and midi of Jews and the status are alone no peace the time four half-measured has passed bulldozing house of homicide bombers is useless, instituting ongoing curfews, users, roadblocks, touch fences, meaning negotiations, some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to decapitate the terrorist leadership of, some have rightly suggested

that Israel be allowed to decapitate the terrorist leadership of Palestinian authority. Okay, so rightly, meaning they're in the right, to suggest that Israel should be allowed to Decapitate, decapitate is what? I mean, killing is the easiest way to put it, but decapitate, doesn't that mean to, what is the actual definition of decapitate? They mean kill the leadership. Kill the leadership. But if he scroll down, the basis of the article is, when he says transfer, he's saying population transfer, in other words, saying this should not be stigmatized. Where do you see population transfer? That's the title of the article is, transfer is not a dirty word. If you read the whole article, that's the whole point of that. I want to read the sentence, rap, go lower.

half measure, Brazil, that's the United States, transindications from the global of the generalization. Here's the bottom line. If you believe

that Jews that has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinian and the Israel Arabs from Judeo, Samaria, Gaza, and Israel proper.

It's an ugly solution, but it's the only solution and it's far less ugly than the prospect of bloody conflict at infinitium. The two public... Okay, can you go to

Chad, GBT, and type in. What does, give me the word. What does the right to transfer? What was the word? Well, that's what the article says. He says, remove the Palestinian-era population from Judea, Samaria, Gaza. How do you interpret what he's saying here? You're thinking

he's saying to kill him? He's saying to displace them, to take them and deport them somewhere else. To deport them somewhere else. Okay. And so to you, would you define that as ethnic cleansing? By definition. Yes. But it's not ethnic cleansing, like just wipe them off to face it. It's not genocide. It's not genocide. By definition, that's got it. And here's, but here's the point I'm trying to make is that is an extremely controversial statement. I mean, could you imagine if someone said whites and blacks can never live together in America? It's an ugly solution. We've got to take all the black people and send them back to Africa. That's racist. Right. It's racist to say Arabs can't live in Israel. We should remove them all. He wrote that under his name on a blog. But he never got canceled for saying that.

But I got secretly recorded when I was 18 in a private conversation, and people say, and he himself quote tweets it and says, this is concerning, to amplify it to everybody in the conservative movement. That's what I say. It is selectively enforced. Yeah, but if he would have written this, the other way around, let's say he's not a Jew, and he writes it about getting rid of Israel, or making it. making a comment about Jews, that would be the equivalent of saying having sex with a dog

is the same as degenerate, the way you put it down. To me, that would be the equivalent, not this. And the reason why I say that is because in 03, who's the president in 03? It's not Obama. Is it Clinton? Is it Bush? It's Bush. Okay. So in 03, how pro-Israel were we in 03 in America? Very pro- Okay. So this is a, this is a probably 80% agreed message in 2003. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just trying to time the temperature of when it was written. Like if he wrote this today, I am sure it's not going to be 80% support that he's going to get. So 03, climate is different. Fair. Continue. Please with after what happened with that school situation. Sure. So I'm at this job training. They leak this out to Rega Battalion.

This goes everywhere. And it was in that moment. I defended myself very strongly because they tried to use this clip. And by they, I'm talking about Ben Shapiro, Cassie Dillon, Cabot Phillips. They think they've got it. And now I'm canceled from the movement. So I took that. And, you know, of course, they're expecting you to go out and apologize. They're expecting you to go out and say, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. But I said, you know what? I'm not sorry because this is a political attack. This is not some kind of good faith. You know, because you said the comment is racist. And would I phrase it that way, if I was saying it in an official public capacity, no. But we tend not to do those things when we think we're in private, in confidence,

you kind of understand that there's some discretion there. And that's not to say that I'm, you know, thought I could get away with it, but we don't speak in a lawyerly way when we're among friends. Do you believe that? You don't believe that, though. What? That it's degenerate? Yeah. I wouldn't say it's immoral. I don't know that I would say degenerate, but I would say it's contrary to my values. How much of, are you saying that in that moment because you're trying to be a shock jock and you're trying to get attention? I wasn't trying to be shock, Jack, think about the question that was posed. Let's just back. I want to know what you think about this. We're in a private conversation. A girl takes her phone out. Start secretly recording and

says, is having sex with a black man the same as having sex with the dog? Did you know she was doing that or no? I didn't know. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, listen. Yeah. You got to, that's a setup. Nick, I'm talking to you in a way as if you're my nephew or my son. Not in a, don't take it as I'm I'm this to you. I'm not doing that at all. I'm just talking to. I'm new to this game. I'm a business guy.

So I haven't been, when I hear the histories, I don't know everyone's histories. You don't know what you're talking about. You're right. We don't know the history of everybody, but we're willing to learn. We'll talk to everybody.

The way I see it, Nick, is one of my kids is very political, very political. More than I'm political. But he's in the climate. So he's always, you know, yesterday he's at the Charlie's Memorial. And this was one of the most difficult days

of his life, witnessing Charlie passed away. I've never seen him. This is a very strong kid. 30 minutes on my shoulders going because of what happened with Charlie. He's sitting right there at the event, listening to everything for five hours, and he's loving. It's not like, oh, my God, I want to go home, I'm tired, can we eat, can we do this? He's all in it. The way I look at you and the way I look at Charlie is one of my kids is probably going to pursue this route, and he's going to go into politics.

and I think you have an opportunity to mentor them to learn from the mistakes you made because whether you know it or not, you've got a lot of kids that follow you, okay? More than they follow me. There's more 13-year-olds following you than they're following me. This is not sarcasm. It's not a shot. I'm just the truth, right? Just like you were following maybe somebody and looking up at them.

I think you've got to be careful. But I also think it comes with the territory. You know, like when I was growing up, I was hanging out with gangsters in L.A. And I remember one day I'm in Vegas, two, three o'clock in a morning. I'm in a street with a 15-year-old kid that's driving a car, and he's got a gun that I don't know he's got a gun. Guys pull up here to our left, handful of African-American guys. Where are you from, homie? Where are you from?

He pulls out to come from New York. Boom, boom. I'm 15 years old. We're out there running in the streets of Vegas. Guess what? You got to be careful who you get in the car with. That could have been the last in my life. Somehow I made it.

I'd go up there. My dad's seeing my heart's like shaking. That was the risk then. I don't know if so much of that is the risk today. The risk is what you just did. You got to be careful of what you're saying. That comes with certain, you know, backlash and responsibility. But I also think, and this is going to give me some in trouble, I also think we should be

forgiving. I also think we should be forgiven for Ben writing that as well as you saying it. I also think it needs to be like, listen, yeah, I mean, maybe he said this. I don't know his upbringing. You know, I'm trying to find that mom, dad. I've seen some stuff with mom and some of the stuff. She said, and maybe it's the influence from Grandma. It's not, it's Mark Levin.

It's not like you had a racist person. I don't, I don't see that. But we also have to be a little bit forgiving because if we don't and we stoke it more, you're going to get worse and worse and worse, right? The next person is going to want to get even more and more radical. Let's go past this one. If you don't mind. I just real, I just want to say one thing.

Please. If I can't, just real, because I hear you and I agree with you. And I try to tell my followers now, I shake my head when my followers are trying to be edgier, edge lording, trolling, whatever. I totally agree. And I try to be a better role model now. And in politics, you do got to be careful what you say, because you're right. And everybody's always watching. The only reason I say that is to kind of paint a picture from my entire 18th year on earth. I'm an 18-year-old college freshman. It's not like I was out here being problematic, being hateful, being a monster. It's that a decision was made that I

have the wrong views. And because I have the wrong views, there was a basically ceaseless political attack, which is, you know, I make a tweet about the double standard on Israel, and Shapiro is amplifying that. I have a show, and someone's calling my boss saying, get this guy fired. Maybe they're collaborating with the left to get me fired, up to and including strangers that I don't even really know are secretly recording me, setting me up. The point is, they made a decision, this guy's got to go, and they said, we're going to use in a careless remark to take the guy out. So, you know, people see, here's a guy that said a bad thing. I don't support that.

Yeah, and I'm not saying you do. I'm just explaining that's the side that a lot of people don't see. They see the bad remark. They don't see the calculation. And that's why I'm having these questions with you. And by the way, I wish this podcast existed because I don't know if there's one where someone's asking you for people to know, how did you become the way you became? Exactly.

That's why I wanted to take this approach with you. But let me go here and hold you accountable a little bit. And again, feel free to push back. I'm comfortable with it. You're 27. You're no longer 18. True. So when you go a week ago and you're like,

you don't need to do it. Here's why you don't need to do it. Drop in the N-word. Some of the words that you drop. I don't mind the F word, you know, shit and all this stuff. I drop it all the time. I try not to drop it on camera, but I'm also not sitting you telling you now I walk on water.

And I say all the words and I listen to hardcore. hip-hop. I listened to a lot of hardcore hip-hop growing up. That was my taste of music. I don't know if it was yours. It was for me. When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from winners, I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from winners?

Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. Are those from winners? Ooh, are those beautiful gold earrings? Did she pay full price? Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater? Or those knee-high boots? That dress? That jacket? Those shoes? Is anyone paying full

price for anything? Stop wondering. Start winning. Winners, find fabulous for less. For a person who knows how to communicate as well as you do, when you use those words, you get an average person to question your intelligence, and you don't need to do that. You're above that. You're so talented. Why go there? Now, if you tell me, Pat, I'm just doing it because I don't want anybody like you to tell me that I can shut by because I've gone through them, zone, no, zone. Fair, fine. You want to do that.

I would just say, I want to show you something. Rob, can you pull up the, you ever read the book Power v. Force? No. Okay. So this book Power v. Force, I read it like 23 years ago. I was 23 years, 22, 23 years old when I read it.

Yeah, it had had a very, very big impact on my life. The guy breaks it down on what types of leaders eventually get to a certain level of consciousness that they gain power naturally and they, truly become a positive force to the world. Like, I believe Charlie's a positive force to the world. To me, I had, believe it or not, Charlie at number one spot. He's my number one draft pick. If I'm building a super team, he's my number one guy.

No one was above Charlie. And there's a lot of guys, okay? No one. I respect all of them. I think they're very capable. But I thought Charlie was unique because of one specific reason. in this thing he explains where if you look at all the way to you see the third row where it says level

so go all the way down to the level you see where it's a shame so shame like I have relatives who are driven by shame they're so they're so tough to be around they're living a tough life that's not you guilt I can't believe what I did 10 years ago and they keep reliving this guilt it's not you apathy it's not you grief that's not you fear I don't think that's you desire I don't know if that's you anger pride maybe I was I was probably a fear desire

women and I was the one that didn't wasn't as discipline as you I was very undiscipline when it came down to women I just couldn't stop it that was my vice that I wasn't video games it wasn't porn it wasn't gambling it was women so then you go to anger pride right pride screw you you know what I'm talking so don't okay no problem Then comes courage. That's the first level of consciousness where you're entering. I think you have it. You have the courage to share with, there's a lot of risk in sharing your opinion.

But then you go to neutrality, and then you have, which is, let me hear both sides out. And let me see what's going on. Then you're willing to speak to everybody. I actually think you're willing to speak to anybody. I wouldn't say you're not willing to speak to anybody. And then you got acceptance that were different. And then he got reason and then he got love. I actually believe Charlie was that reason and love.

And I don't think anybody else and the movement is that reason I love. I don't think anybody else. This is my opinion. What I process this. When I watch you and I see what direction you're going and what your upside is, my only feedback on this topic that we're having,

consider this feedback from a person who's never spoke, you and I just audience notes. How many times have you and I spoken? Zero. Have we ever DMed each other? Never, no. Have we had a phone call with each other? Never. By the way, I think this is very important for the audience to know this.

The guy paid for his own flight. We pay for your flight to come down here. We pay for your driver. We pay for your hotel. Didn't let do that. I actually respect that. That was your way of saying, hey, I don't want anybody to say this. I just came here.

Whether it's because of safety, reason, whatever, I respect all of it, the fact they did. And I think the audience needs to do that. Know that because they need to know where your character lies. All I'm saying is, pump the brakes a little bit. and here's why. I wouldn't mind coming back to the story, but we can transition back to this because I still want to know the history. Let's go back on what happened this week with, not this week, 12 days ago, I think it is now. Charlie Kirk, right? And you know what clips are going viral

with you. A month ago, you're calling out, you know, what do you call it, Turning Point USA, and I don't know what you said, but you said it. You know what it is. You can't, you can't can fill in the context on what you said. I'm not going to play the clip. But you were saying something. It's the clip where you're at the top and the other one's at the bottom, right? What you said before and announced like,

hey, listen, Charlie was a Christian. He was trying to do this. You were very complimentary about Charlie. Okay. And Charlie Kirk got assassinated. And you've had death threats of people coming to your door, right? And things happening.

How much has the last 12 days? Because, you know, at first they're like, well, you know, it's Israel. you're like, no, it's not Israel. You're actually a person that I would have thought would have been the first to go there. You actually said, no, I'm not going there. You know, Charlie, Nick is a Fed, all right.

This person's CIA, all right. That kind of went away. Didn't have a long lifespan. It's gone. Hey, it's the groepers that did it. You know, it's your career. It was out of the 13 questions, 11 were gropeer, whatever the number was, I may be wrong. I don't fact, go fact, check me on what the numbers,

but I read somewhere that a number of the people that asked the question were Groopers. Groopers asked me a question when I was at Amphist. When the guy got up and said, how come you've never had Nicholas J. Fuentes on? And I said, he's got to stop saying the N-word. And this is when you kind of came back and reacted to the video.

How are you processing this with Charlie Kirk? I've seen the tweets. I've seen the videos, but how are you processing this? Well, on a personal level, it's terrifying, you know, because he was out there and he got blown away doing what we all do, which is a public event or something like that. And, of course, the same thing happened to me last year.

Somebody came to my door with a gun while I was doing my show and tried to kill me. And so you realize we do really have a problem in the country with this kind of violence. That was kind of the first level. My first reaction is I didn't know if this was some lone nut job. Is there some kind of coordinated attack? If there would be copycats or something. But then on a deeper level, people are calling me a hypocrite because I had complimentary things to say about Charlie, even though he was my adversary in politics, but I don't see it as a contradiction.

I disagreed with him. I still disagree with the things he said. And my views on him from a professional point of view hasn't changed. What I have processed is the reaction to the killing from all of his fans and from people. You see that millions of people were touched by his activism. And I looked at his activism in a very one-dimensional way, which is that he's He's pro-Trump. He's pro-Republican. He's pushing the talking points. We would call it Talking Points USA. That was kind of the joke. TPUSA Talking Points. His job is to go out there and sell, you know, the party. But seeing the outpouring of support, I mean, I saw a lot of young people that were emotional, young men, young women, going to the vigils and actually distraught.

And I think they were distraught, one, because it was so evil what was done to him to see that kind of violence was really upsetting. But also I think people were touched because Charlie Kirk, it does put things in perspective when a person dies. I don't believe he was a bad man. I disagreed with him. I didn't like his politics. But what I have come to respect about him is that he was a very hard worker. He was kind. You noticed that when he talked to people he didn't like or disagreed with.

He was open to other people. He changed his mind, even when he dealt with me. And he was never particularly nice to me, let's just say. But he was to a lot of people. And maybe more than anything, the thing that touched people the most was his testimony of his faith, that he believed in God. And, you know, I didn't like what he advocated for politics, but he advocated for Christianity. That's the part that people are going to remember him for. That's the part that people, when they think Charlie Kirk, they don't think of the Republican debate, bro.

they think about a guy that was preaching marriage, values, you know, decent Christian values, Christ himself and a sacrifice on the cross, he was Protestant, I'm Catholic. And when they held the memorial yesterday, I'm going to tell you the truth, I thought there were things about the memorial that were distasteful. But one thing that was exceptional about it is the way that the name of Christ was proclaimed to everybody. And I think that, you know, when you see someone die like that, the reason it's jarring for people is because we realize that we're all going to die. suddenly, unexpectedly, you know, and like him, he's 31 years old. Nobody expects that a 31-year-old with that kind of money and influence is going to die all of a sudden.

He had plans, you know, he was going to get on his private jet and fly to do another event, some other time. You know, nobody expects that you're going to die someone like that at that age. And when you see someone like that cut down so viciously, you realize how life is so fragile and it's so temporary and it's so short, any day we could all die. And what that then naturally makes us think about is what. well, what does it all really mean then? If you could get stopped in your tracks in any time like that,

what actually really matters in life? And what mattered about Charlie when you see in the end is it's not actually the times when he was maybe taking the piss and saying what is a woman. It's the times when he was sincerely professing his faith, talking about moral virtues and the moral virtues that he lived in his deeds. And so to me, I guess it kind of, it was a change in perspective kind of realizing everybody asked the same question,

how will I be remembered? You know, when we get unexpectedly killed or when we die or when bad things happen, and it's a challenge to kind of live everyday thinking, could today be the day? You know, and what did I do on my final day? How did I act? Did I tell the truth? Was I courageous? Was I kind?

You know, not just to my friends and my family, but also to my enemies. So I think it brought people to the center a little bit, centered in a spiritual sense. Did you at all watch it yesterday where you had moments of, of sitting there saying, this was a good guy, man. Shit, you know, I wish I would have changed the approach with our relationship. Did you at all have that moment? I don't know that I would have changed my approach

because politics is vicious, you know, and that's just the game. He was vicious to us. We were vicious to him. But I do think that I harshly judged him. I think when anybody dies, you feel that way. And I think, especially since he died, you look at him and he realized this guy was not actually the worst guy in the world.

You know, he was kind of my nemesis in a way. And maybe I was his on the right wing. But I realized that we had so much more in common than we disagreed with, actually. So do you think, do you think when you hear the statement, let's find a way to lower the temperatures? Do you in your mind say, oh, shut up with this lowering the temperature bullshit? Stop it. Lower the temperature. Do you know what's going on?

Do you hear that message now and say, maybe we've got to lower the temperature? Hey, maybe if I got all these young guys that are following me, how Christ-like am I being? What am I? This whole WWJD, I had a call with somebody two days ago. I won't mention the name, but also very talented and capable. Very person I believe in tremendously as well. And we also, you know, have had a challenge.

But I said, listen, every time as I'm going through this, and I'm out there, I took my kids. Everyone's like, don't take your kids to, you know, what do you call it, the Charlie's a memo. I said, no, no, I'm taking my kids. I believe in God. I have faith. And if I move forward with fear, what a coward, I'm not, I'm a leader. I'm a leader amongst leaders.

We're going to go there. They sit there proud. We're good. Of course, we make the investment for security and all that stuff. But we got to go. We can't change our life dramatically what we're seen as being cowards, right? We're never going to do that. This is America is the greatest country in the world.

I'm going to do my part. My life has changed because of God, Jesus, America. I am the luckiest human being alive. That is my feeling, the vibe that I have, right? But when you hear the words, we got to lower the temperature. What's the first thing you think about? I think it's kind of just a wrong perspective on it, because I'm an intense person,

and I think this is a decisive moment for America. And, you know, what really set me, what really made me beside myself is not necessarily that someone killed Kirk because there's a lot of crazy people out here that unfortunately do carry out acts of violence. It was that there were like 100,000 liberals who are in their right mind that were celebrating, that were glib about it, that crashed vigils, that danced, that danced, that laughed, that mocked it, that said it was a good thing, he deserved it. And you realize that it is a battle between good and evil. And I don't believe that when you're fighting evil, you lower the intensity. I think that we must very intensely fight evil because we have to win. If we lose, and by we, I mean decent people, they're going to hurt us, and they're going to destroy the things that we care about. So for me, it's not necessarily about intensity.

Temperature, I would say intensity. I think we should all fight for what we believe in intensely every day. I would change it and say, it's really a question of love and hate. It was a hateful action to kill Charlie Kirk. It's a hateful action to celebrate. I think that we should be intense, but we should also move in love. And what that means is, you know, I said this on my show, people kill each other with bullets and literally murder each other and take their lives. We also kill each other by destroying each other's reputations.

When we lie about somebody, when we gossip about somebody, when you go and actually do the examine of conscience at confession at a Catholic church, and you go through all the different sins, and you say, because you have to contemplate, you have to confess everything, every mortal sin. to confess all of it. So first you examine it systematically. Have I done this? Have I done that? And one of the violations of the commandment, thou shall not kill, is gossip, detraction. It's attacking somebody with a lie. Because that's a form of killing somebody in a certain sense. It's a form of damning somebody. And so I wouldn't say we need to lower the intensity, but we should always move in love. And by that, I don't mean some kind of like new age and move in love, very vague and nonspecific. But I mean, we should want what's good for everybody. We should will the good for us and also even for our enemies too and for the whole country. And so

that's why I said my first reaction when I did my show, a lot of people said, well, we now got to go and kill two of theirs. They killed one of ours. Now we need to get violent. You know, now we got to go and pick up arms. How many is too many? I think there were, I mean, not anybody notable, but I think there were a lot of people that were thinking that. On the conservative side? I think so. I do. Are you saying groipers or you're saying like what part of that? Because are you saying Groopers? No. No, absolutely. You're saying just conservatives period. I'm saying yeah. I think that, I mean, do you think that after people saw Charlie Kirk get murdered? There weren't at least some people

that said we have to match the left. Perfect. I'm glad you brought that up. So my initial reaction, I'm a very bad person. Very. Initial reaction is vengeance. Right. That's normal, initial. But, you know, that's the part where, you know, there's certain people that will come say stuff about me. They say it all the time. You know, you're, you've got money from Assad. We don't do sponsorship money here.

We haven't taken sponsorship money for two years. The only thing we take is AdSense, and that's what YouTube does. We don't pick and choose what it is, right? But they'll say stuff like that. It doesn't bother me. Because it's like, you know, if you fight it, they're going to do more of it, so what bothers them.

Let me keep going, nah, I'm good. I'm going to do your part. Maybe if I was in my 20s, I would constantly fight that over and over and over again. I'm not. To me, I also think there's a moment there here where we have a moment. I feel like within a conservative party, there's a lot of different gangs, okay? In a mob, if you go study the history of the mob with Lucky Luciano when they created the commission, all these different families came together, right?

It doesn't mean we're buddy, buddy, hey, how you doing? You know, everything's good. That's not what that means. It just means, listen, at the end of the day, maybe the enemy isn't who we think the enemy is. Okay? Maybe you and Charlie, 90%, I don't know, 80, 90%, you were on the same page. Is it worth us getting this nasty over the 10%? I don't know.

I don't know. I feel we're at an era right now that I think all the voices matter and I think, like, I don't know what your aspirations are long term do you have any aspirations run for office one day? Potentially. Okay, potentially. Do you think Charlie was going to one day run for office?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I always said that all the time. I think you probably have some plans on one day running. They show me a clip when he said, I want 100,000 people that are making money, low-key underground, nobody knows where you're kind of breaking that. Okay, great.

So you want to run for office one day. great. You have your own certain ideas, philosophies, that you want to go. I think this next part, excuse me, I think this next part, as we go through it, this is an MLK moment. This was the MLK of Republicans and conservatives, even though Martin Luther King was a Republican and his wife called Nixon to get some help. They didn't call back in, and he called John F. Kennedy, she called, and then that's when they flipped. I'm going to be a Democrat, and I'm next year, you know, and you got Barry Goldwater

and the whole thing is a mess. African-Americans were conservatives for many, many years, statistically. My question for you is, how is your approach going to change moving forward? Are you still planning on going all-out, aggressive, because you said love and hate, right? Are you still trying to go with that part?

Like yesterday, Trump said something, I don't know if you caught it. You probably caught it when he said, you know, I hate my analysis. I hate my enemies. I don't know. Erica's probably going to come talk to me afterwards. Change my mind. You got to love the guy that he talks like that, right? You guys got a little bit of that's similar style of things that you guys do. But I do think deep down aside he's loved today. I do think he's loved today. What's going to change about your approach? Anything? Or are you planning on being the same?

You know, to be honest with you, I don't think there's much that needs to change. I mean, you know, we all have a battle that we fight every day. You know, I mean, like you said, your first reaction when you saw him go down was vengeance. No question. Especially when you do a live show, so many of the things I've said that I regret or our unfortunate things. It's things that you get whipped up talking about something you're passionate about and out of anger, you know, something like that. You take it too far. You say something careless. And so, you know, to the extent that it's a reminder of our mortality, I always try every day to keep it. truthful, and to make sure that it's coming from the right place. I don't think we should

be emotional. I don't think anger, and I agree with you, the chart that you showed, we shouldn't want to be angry, we should want to be prudent, and we should want to be thoughtful, and we should want to act out of rationality as opposed to emotion. And so to the extent that Charlie Kirk died, how it affected me, I'm going to try harder to move in that way, but I think I've been tending in that direction for a long time. Did he inspire you? Was there anything about him that inspired do you? Yes. The one thing that he inspired me about, because I did not like him when he was alive, I'll be honest with you. The one thing that inspired me is this guy was a workhorse, and I respect that, because I have a hard time with discipline. I'm not the most disciplined

person when it comes to hard work, and this guy was a beast. I mean, the stuff that he did working morning to night, you got to think he did a three-hour show every day, wrote books, then he went home and managed Turning Point, then he went and flew out and did 100 campus events, That's just like him and Trump, they have that Protestant work ethic. And I know you're a capitalist, you're a businessman. There's nothing I respect more than people that build, people that work hard. That's noble. That's good.

That's a virtue. So that was very inspirational to me. I want three more hours with you because I've got so many questions. I'm getting so. What do you see about Thomas Rousseau? Is there any thoughts you have to Thomas Rousseau? Yeah, I actually watched your show with that. What did you think about him?

You know, I think he's very disciplined also, very composed. was very disciplined, but I just don't like that type of activism. I don't know how productive that is. What did you disagree with him on? You know, he is a ideological racialist. And I believe that goes too far. I'm a Catholic. I don't know what his religious views are. I think there's a tendency from some white nationalists to idolize race. They believe that race is the highest virtue. As a Catholic, I do believe there's a universal community. of human beings, that we are all human in a fundamental way. And although I do believe that race is real, I also think we're all humans also. So I would say he's more racialist than me. And I also think that

from an ideological point of view, from a professional point of view, I just do not support that type of activism, these provocative marches where they're getting in, they're not getting in people's faces, but it is intended to provoke, it is intended to be transgressive. And I don't know how much I'm, I like that. He was also interesting to get to know. And he was, was very good in the way he communicated his style is very different than yours uh he's very you know the way he speaks is more here you're more animated you you have a very smooth style of delivering your message but actually wanted to know this guy to see what drove him uh your opinion of me i'm middle east or married to white girl okay uh i'm from iran christian guy mom's a christian

dad's a christian mom was a communist dad was an imperialist went to germany refugee camp came to the States. Do you think there should be more opportunities of guys like me to end up here, or do you think it's better off for America purely based on odds to minimize more of me coming to America? Well, I think that the most important thing to consider about immigration is it's just the volume. It's the numbers. I don't have a problem in principle with immigration at all. If we brought in a million or maybe not a million, but if we brought in, let's say, 300,000 people every year that are like you, that are intelligent, that are productive, that are going to be generative. I don't necessarily have a problem with that in and of itself.

The problem is that for 30 years, we bring in two or three million people per year. You know, the foreign-born population is doubled. We brought in 50 to 60 million people since 1990. That's just too many people. And how I would distinguish it is that we're bringing in so many people that it's fundamentally altering what America is. You go to, like, Miami. Miami's like a Caribbean country. Like, it doesn't even feel like America. It feels more like Costa Rica or something. You go to New York, L.A. It doesn't feel like what America used to be, what America is distinctly. And that's what I have a problem with, that pretty soon everywhere, it's going to be so diverse, linguistically, ethnically, ethnically, religiously, that you can't even say America is anything.

You know, like the mayor of Minneapolis. He's doing advertisements in Somalian. What is that? Yeah, they had a cop badge is now in Arabic. I don't know if you saw that or not. Yes. Yeah. How do you feel about that?

I think that's horrible. What do you think about between the two communities, Muslim and Jews? Which one concerns you more? Jews, for sure. Tell me why. More powerful.

They're more powerful. So more powerful in a way, you're talking the fact that they have money, finance, Hollywood. Is that what you're... Yeah, they have more position in American society. And how do you think they got that?

I think they got it because they are extremely connected. They're a transnational entity. You know, this is how the Rothschilds got started. Their superpower is that they live everywhere, and their Jewish identity supersedes their local identity. So a Jewish person in America or in Germany or in France or in the UK, they can all talk to each other and work together. Do you think that's a bad thing?

Not in and of itself. It is detrimental for America, though. Is it detrimental, though? Because, you know, I'm Assyrian, right? And I wish Assyrians were more like this. And let me tell you why I relate to them. We don't have a country. Assyrians used to have a country.

We used to be the first warriors. We were written about it in the Bible. You read it all over the place. You know, the history we had, the things we invented. And then we became a little cocky. And God came in and it's like, listen, man, relax Assyrians. You ain't going to come and be the king of the jungle. It's me. And you hear the stories about that they build the tower to go all the way to the top because we are Syrians and you know. And then we failed. He's like, nope, look at you now. No one knows who Syrians are. You don't even have a country, right? We know the land in Iraq or wherever you are. You don't have it anymore. I think when a community becomes Tukaki, the man upstairs is going to handle that himself, right? But in a sense, when you see they went from a small community to have this much influence, isn't that almost impossible for them to pull off?

Like, isn't that, so it either produces one of two things. I'm not intimidated. I'm not a guy that is envious or jealous or, oh, my God, that guy's richer than me, that guy's this, this guy's, I'm not. I want to see what they did and what worked for them. For example, to me, when I think about Jews, I think about Mormons, I think about Scientologists. I have an office where half the office was all Scientology and I learned all these phrases, assist or, you know, they, you know,

I went to their church and I, dionetics and Elron Hubbard and what he would say when you get a headache, you do this and all these weird exes. I'm like, oh, interesting. How much money? We give $200,000. Why did you give that? But let me tell you, those guys that were in, they had each other's back. It was a fraternity that you wish family members were like this, right? I think Scientologists have it maybe more than Jews. So I think Jews will bite each other a little bit, not as much, and then Mormons have each other's back. Of course, there's a following out as well where people come out and they'll talk about Godmakers or, you know,

with Gordon B. Hinkley, and I've read all of that stuff from over the years. But what's wrong with them winning at the highest level? Well, I agree with you that it's, it is remarkable, and it is actually ominous how much they've achieved. Here's the problem, though. America's an open society. You know, the premise of this country is it's self-government. by for the people. There's a site, egalitarian idea that we are all citizens, and our government is going to be comprised of the citizenry of America. That's deeply embedded in who we are, and in our

government, our whole system. And take me, for example, I'm Italian, Mexican, and Irish. The Italians were very much like this when they immigrated to America. You know, they had in Chicago what they called the outfit, which was the mafia, and they looked out for each other. And when my grandfather died on my mom's side, I believe my grandmother got a loan from the outfit. And they would come by every month or whatever, and they'd bring a fruit basket, and they'd look after her, and they provided financially. Was this a Spilatra's group? Do you know the history of it? Or was it Tony Spelotro? I don't know who it was specifically. But so, you know, these are some of the stories I would hear

growing up from my mom and my grandmother. So think about at that time, how many people were against Italians? At that time, how many people didn't like Italians in New York? York because, do you know Bank of America was first called Bank of Italy? Did you know that? No, I didn't. So can you pull up, Rob, was ask, was Bank of America first Bank of Italy? If I'm wrong, it is what it is. I think Bank of America was originally a Bank of Italy, and everybody used to, yes, the Bank of America was originally founded in Bank of Italy in 1904 to an Italian-American and San Franciscoer in that Foundation use of Italian immigrants and other underserved people. The bank eventually merged with another institution to form Bank of America and

change his name to Bank of America, right? The tellers were Italians. You know, they would give small little loans, $10, $4, $4, $5 to them. And some people are not supportive of that. They're like, what are Italian immigrants doing here? You guys are becoming too much power in New York. We're not happy about this. So there was some of that going on 100 years ago. And that's what I'm saying is that did exist.

And then what happened eventually is that Italians assimilated. Eventually these groups, these ethnic advocacy groups, were broken up, if you could call the outfit that or the mob of New York. And then Italians assimilated. And when I grew up, I saw myself as American. see myself as Italian-American. I just saw myself as American. And I think that, you know, when you see Jewish people working together, I don't think there's anything wrong with that inherently. And I agree with you. It's like a superpower. It's actually admirable in some ways

they look out for each other. But if society becomes American society in particular a place where every group is ganging up, well, we're the whites, we're the blacks, we're the Jews, then I think what America is starts to come apart. And it turns into kind of like, a bit of a politicized race war. And I think that you either have to have a society where everybody gets to play by those rules and everybody could be pro what they are, or everybody is assimilated and we're all Americans. And that's why I say it's detrimental is that if Jewish people are Jewish first, not of by and for America, but of by and for the Jewish nation, this is problematic when they're in positions of power, because are they looking out for all of us? Or are they

looking out for themselves first? And when you look at the Israel policy, that's where people start to say, I think you're looking out for yourselves first. I think you're biased. And unfortunately, you're using the public purse and American soldiers to fight your own battles. And that's the problem. It's not, I don't have hatred for them. I don't have a problem with them in themselves or even what they do. It's just that with our system, that doesn't work. You know what I would say to that as well? When, you know, if they use the American soldiers in their advantage and all that other stuff, Okay. Who negotiated that deal? Some president negotiated that deal. Someone said yes to it. Right? When they say, well, let me tell you, you know, that person is afraid to platform this guy because he's afraid his donors are going to go and do this. And it's Israel's fault. No, it's not. It's the guy who runs the, it's not Israel's fault. What are he talking about? You know, this guy sends me a message, A-PAC. I got a text. Not a text. What do you call it? in the ex-a-DM I get from APEC, okay?

Hey, we'd like you to come to Israel. We'd like to invite you. I'm sure many people get that message, right? They send it. I said, I'm going to come with my pastor. I don't want you to pay for it. I'm going to pay for it. I want to bring my crew because I want to go to Jerusalem.

You're not going to see me putting the, what do they call it? I'm not going to put that on. But guess what? I respect the culture, and I want to go to Gaza, and I would ask for some idea of protection that if we can go to Gaza, show it to her. I want to see this stuff. I want to go with my pastor.

First time around, I'm not going to take my kids. Maybe the second third time I'll take my kids. But to me, I don't put the onus on, like when the guy's like, that guy has slept with so many people's, this, this, this. And the girl said yes. No, but you don't understand. He's a man whore. But the girl said yes. So is it Israel or is it the girl?

Do you understand what point I'm trying to make? So to me, it's kind of like, I mean, look, if we, you said Israel over Muslims, right? Which of the two do you think has been a bigger net positive to America? Oh, it has to be Israel, absolutely. Okay. So a part about that part of... Well, in terms of, I wouldn't say net positive. I would say in terms of raw, maybe like gross positive.

Because they've had a lot of contributions, culturally, and even, you know, in terms of art, literature, music, also scientifically. But it's difficult to say on that, because I also think that there's quite a bit of a detriment. I think that the melting pot comes from the Jewish community. What do you mean by that? The idea of the melting pot, that comes from a Jewish playwright. You know, because Jewish people come to America. And like all immigrants, they say, well, we want America to be more welcoming.

So they start to spin up these ideas that, well, America was never this country of white Christians. it's always been a melting pot for all immigrants. They want the country to be more open because that makes it more comfortable for them. It makes it more tolerant for them. But this has also made us more open and tolerant for Muslims, for example. I mean, who's been the biggest driver

of like the Hartzeller-65 Immigration Act was like the SPLC, which is run by Jewish lawyers? And so they're major drivers of mass migration. They're also major drivers of the pro-Israel politics, like the Iraq War, it was many Jewish journalists and pundits and advocates. Sure. So a point being is like when you calculate on net,

and I agree with you, like I think there are a lot of people that are critical of Israel that are reluctant to acknowledge the good that Jews do. And I think that Jews are, they're brilliant. Many of them are brilliant. So what I'm saying net positive, I'm talking jobs, economy,

how often you hear about crime, what they do. Like if you have a choice between living in a city in Minnesota, Dearborn, and living in, I don't know what's the biggest city. What's the city that Boca Raton, let's just say, right? If you have a choice between raising your family between Dearborn and Boca Raton, where do you choose? Boca Raton. Okay. So the point is like they go to a place. And by the way, to me, if that was Muslims, guess what? I would say Muslims. But statistically, wherever they live, it's safer, things are nicer, things get better. I agree. And that is one part to measure where they're at. Now, do I see them overly aggressive? Do I see them the type that

are going to use politicians and buy them like Marjorie, Taylor Green, and other people are saying, 100%. Do I see them, they're going to be there in everyone's DM and email saying, hey, you know, we'd love to support you. We'd love to bring you to Israel and, you know, doing all that stuff? It's obvious. I'm seeing it myself. Do I look at that and shame them and say, oh, you're Shame on, I look at that and say, no, I wish Armenians would do that. I've never gotten an invitation from Prime Minister of Armenia. He should probably send me an invite to go there, right? It's not a bad idea to come and show the country.

I'm Armenian, I'm a Syrian. Syrians don't have a country. It's probably a good idea. You don't see that. You wish others would do that. So for me, as much as when I go into that, by the way, I'll give you one other side that, you know, Israel's going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. This other side to me is I actually do believe they lever.

average Massad to get intel. I actually do believe they use blackmail. I actually do believe they do that. So, you know, so, oh, there's nothing going on with Epstein. No, no, no. I, Michael Wolfe did a podcast with him two months ago. And when he was at Epstein's house, the 100 hours of recording that he has with him, I said, how many times would Ihood Bacard there? Uh, uh, my saying his name correctly, a Barack. Ehud Barak, Barak. He said, he was there many times. He said he was there many times. Why would the former prime minister visit the guy 30-something times? Just because the conversation is great? That's a little bit suspect, right? So to me, I'll go there, but I'll go the other end.

So what I'm trying to do, like if you're wondering what my role is here, okay? My role is I want to continue talking to you. I want us to do many of these together as we go through whatever journey we go through next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And I'd like you to be around 60 years from now to see whatever you want to do.

And let's see what your ideas are going to land and what they're going to go through. I'm sure as we all age, some of them get better, some of them get sharper. Maybe this used to be number one to us at 26. maybe it's going to be number six when we're 46. Maybe this used to be number 11 when we're 26. Now it's number 2 when we're 52.

Who knows? Life changes. You evolve, right? You're just watching Trump in the last 10 years change. He's not the same. Just the way he does his speaking. I was watching him speak yesterday and the way he's doing press conference. A very different guy on where he's at.

And it's not like he's tired and he's not working. You said him in Charlie Crook or Protestant, you know, workers, thing that they have. It's not that. I just see his going through it himself. I would like people on both sides to not be like, oh my God, he just said Nick Fuenteson, that's it. No, you don't control me. I want to talk to you.

Oh, my God, he brought Cuomo and he did this. Dude, Cuomo, we orchestrated a conversation with him and Dave Smith. It was great. And we had Chris Cuomo and Candace speak. It was great. They gave their arguments. And Chris said some things about, you know, people don't need IDs to vote. I don't agree with that.

But guess what? At least we had the conversation, right? I'll sit with Wiener. I'll sit with you. I'll sit with, let me tell you. I got a lot of death threats after having Bibi on the comment. And I have three outcomes with Bibi, right? To me, it was very simple what I wanted to get.

I wish I had two hours with the guy. But it was a short time. But I guess maybe the final thing that I would want to get before we wrap up is do you mind in a three to a five minute part, finish up that part on when we were going through with U.N. Cassie and Media Matters and Leadership Institute and Reagan Battalion and the video that we were talking about. Do you mind going past that a little bit? Maybe let's finish that story and then we'll wrap up the podcast. Sure. So then I went to Charlottesville and just for context, I wasn't at the Tiki Torch event. I got there actually the next day. And by the time I got

to the actual thing, they had already shut it down. So I got blamed for being there even though technically I wasn't even really there. But so I went there, because of that, I got fired from RSBN. They let me go after that. That's when I started doing my show independently. And, you know, kind of the rest was history, but I started doing it independently. And I guess the next big saga was my interaction with Charlie Kirk, which is where my followers were going to his events. This was in autumn 2019.

And they were asking him, why are you Israel first? And why do you support legal, mass legal migration? and why are you so tolerant towards some of the, like, LGBT stuff? He's very pro-gay at that time and other things. And that was really where I put myself on the map, which was with the Groyper War, where we were kind of challenging and pushing back on him. And ever since then, I guess I've been the kind of underground counterweight

to these more establishment GOP people. And it's sort of interesting over the years how this has evolved my relationship with Trump, with Charlie Kirk, These are kind of the standard bearers of conservatism in this day and age. And I guess I'm just the story of the congenital, like the archetypal young white male of the Trump era. The young white male, extremely online, very political, disaffected, disillusioned, that has just kind of been following all these things to their reasonable conclusion. And it's interesting how that's changed over 10 years. I mean, it's been such a long time I've done it.

But, yeah, that was sort of kind of the next part in that saga. But as you know, it's a very long story. Yes, it is. And I see a bunch of stuff going on with you guys, you know, all the names, everybody going back and I've watched. The clips, we react to some of them here on the podcast. If you see us, when we'll react to it, then you're always making noise. So you're, you know, we have to react. And your sense of humor is, let me tell you, you know, you have that, that sense of humor and the wit that's a, it's a secret weapon.

because you can have all the brains you want you can be a very good communicator but if you don't have that funny sense of humor side that is a secret weapon that can't be taught you can go take all the utomy classes you can go to Harvard Yale

you can go to whatever courses you want to go take you can study everything about the Constitution no every word better than anybody the federal paper can recite it the Bible all of it you don't have a sense of humor you know and you're sarcastic you're a troll you've got all of that. So it's great for camera. But Nick, I really appreciate you coming out. I got respect

for you that you paid for yourself. Allow me to pay for you next time if you come out. You don't have to worry about the driving. Let us at least take care of your flight. But I look forward to many more conversations that we have together. This was actually, when people said, what do you think we're going to have? I think we're going to have a great conversation. It was exactly what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be a great conversation. I'm glad to hear it. Anytime. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Anytime. And I think you are on Maneck, right? I think you are on Meneck as well,

but people can ask you questions if I'm not mistaken. I think we're going to set it up now. I'm not there yet, though. Fantastic. All right. So, guys, we're going to put his contact information below to get a hold of them. Having said that, take care, everybody. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.

Hi, I'm Nick Fuentes. If you want to text me or call me or ask me a question, you can find me on Menect.