PBD Podcast - “Why Did You Kill My Father?” — Ex-Mafia Underboss Reveals the Call | PBD Podcast #865

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Sammy “The Bull” Gravano sits down with Patrick Bet-David for a raw reckoning with the life he built and the one he left behind. He challenges John Gotti Jr.’s version of mob history, revisits why he cooperated, addresses his past with James Comey, and explains why faith changed everything for him.------👞 Get the NEW Billionaire Suede Loafer:https://bit.ly/4ym5oRA👕 SHOP THE ICON COLLECTION:https://bit.ly/3TuUU3x👞 GET THE FLB1's:https://bit.ly/4mC4uf6Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT:https://bit.ly/4kSVksoⓂ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES:https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING:https://bit.ly/4lzQph2🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE:https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj🇰 KALSHI:http://kalshi.com/pbdSUBSCRIBE TO:@VALUETAINMENT@BetDavidConsulting@vtgenz@ValuetainmentComedyABOUT US:Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

They might be panicking about me. They may say, let's take this motherfucker out. I would advise them. Make sure you don't miss. Did Gravano tell you how he became a rat? Why were you upset with me sitting with Junior? I wouldn't sit with him for no money. What is it going to be in argument?

You want to talk or sit with Patrick with David and talk? Say the fucking truth. Talk. Don't lie to him because he's got a big file. You want to get your fucking voice out? I think the world would want to see to sit down. John Gotti was acquitted on racketeering charges. He sat down with the government.

I certainly wasn't going to go to prison on him using my lawyer and all the rest of the lawyers to back the government's case. What the fuck is that? If that's not a rat move, I don't know what is. And I don't give a fuck what your story is. This is how ice-cold Sammy is, how capable he is that he'll take a 16-year-old's life. That's what they would say about you. He made it sound like some 16-year-old kid

who's coming home with his fucking books. We gunned them down for no fucking reason. I confess to everything I did. So I'm not saying I'm not part of this head. I'm pinched. He's part of the 19 murders. Did any family member ever confront you? One day my phone rang and he says,

is this saying? I said yes. And he says, why did you kill him? I said, I'm going to tell you the whole story. Don't interrupt. Don't hang up. He knew exactly what that meant. Did the mob ever use the word 86?

Anybody who said this says, Patrick is dumb, is crazy. Because look at it with these things. He's trying to make me talk. I'm asking you a question about eight. I'm doing math. Have you ever been in the same room? What do you mean?

Dinner, playing cards, domino, chess. What was the occasion? I can't tell you. I tell you, this guy's brilliant. You've never. talked about this with Comey, though. There's stuff from the 90s. You've never talked about that. Now, you got me and everybody else watching, curious.

I want everything to come out to truth. I want to leave my life what I was. Before, in the middle, after. Because I think I owe that to my people who love me and around me, friends, that I care about. So I'm going to ask an indirect way of helping our guys, our production team that works so hard, get a raise. Do you want to help them get a raise? This is how you can help us out.

49% of you watch our podcast that our editors work so hard. Producers, cutters, all of them. Our production team, 32 of them that work here, they work very, very hard to deliver a good quality to you. If you enjoy our show and you want to help this thing get bigger so we can take our talent that we have in-house to support this production, all the time and maybe even give them a raise, then please subscribe to the channel that allows us to get more viewership and indirectly, it makes bigger opportunities for our current team that we have. Thank you so much. So today we have a very famous YouTuber here with us, big YouTuber, Sammy Debo Gravano. It's great to have you here. My pleasure. Maybe you were known

for something else back in the days, but today, YouTuber, content creator. Can you imagine you're a YouTube? Sometimes I can't even believe it. I'm publicly talking. I'm in shock. Yeah. I never talked, especially when I got in the mob, you know, you're supposed to be quiet.

Yeah. So I never talk. Now I'm talking all over the place. You know, a lot of times when people tell me, he says, how is Sammy a YouTuber and I? So listen,

the world's a safer place with Sammy doing YouTube. You want Sammy as a YouTube. You want them as a content creator, not anything else. But about a year, a year and a half ago, I'm doing a podcast

with this one guy. I don't know if you know them or not. His name is John. And after I do this podcast with him, just sit down with them. Next thing, you know, my insurance company calls me, on my life insurance, say, listen, we're worried about your health

and your life. I said, tell me why. He says, because there's this guy who reacted to your sit-down with John Jr. named Sammy Dubo Gravano, who is furious with you. Why were you upset with me sitting with Jr.? Me? Yeah. Here's the reason why. I'm going to tell you the reason. I listen to the interview. I listen to you a lot, not all the time, but a lot, most of the time. You were the first person I actually ever did a live interview with, if you remember. Of course. So I listen to you a lot. We have a good relationship with John Jr.

was telling you things that were completely so fake. It was incredible. And I know do you have the capability of doing a fact check. I saw you in battles with who's the guy who used to show himself to young girls? Winner, Anthony Weiner. Anthony Weiner. And you battle it out. I said, this guy doesn't realize.

Patrick would wipe the floor with him. One guy says, what if he hits Patrick? I says, are you crazy? If he hit Patrick, Patrick's going to wipe the floor at him. I said, there's not even a match. But anyway, he's telling you that I wasn't in the car with John Gotti when we killed Castorado. Now, that's so crazy.

Why would I admit to that, number one? Number two, the NYPD did their own investment. We were in the car. The feds did it. We were in the car together. They did all kinds of research, everybody. And they were there. Now, when I went on trials with the feds,

they never wanted to get caught in a lie. So anytime I said anything in the trial, they always just jumped all over it and checked it every which way you can. Because they don't want to get caught in a lie. or blow the case that they're working on. And 100% of the times I came up exactly what it was. I did the Johnny Keys hit a long time ago.

So it's a great story. They did research on it. They checked it. There's even guys in his crew when we left before he got killed who cooperated later and told the same exact story I told. years ago, you know. So I don't lie about these stories. I don't exaggerate. I tell it like it is. So this kid, to say, I wasn't in the car with his father. And his father swore on his dead son. Now, I think that's so brutal to say that. The same thing when they killed a neighbor.

he literally swore on his dead father, son, the father told him this, this, this. So you're making your father a liar. People know that if that's what he told you, he was lying. And to swear on his dead son, you made him look even worse. You're not helping him by doing that. You know, you could say he did it. And I don't understand why he would say I wasn't in that thing. So what do you think his outcome is of saying you're not?

in that thing? Is he trying to say you're not as tough, you're not as involved, you were not involved in a big kid? Like, what's the big deal of him saying that? I don't know. In his thing, everything he could say is to make me look like a liar or to put me down like I wasn't what I was supposed to do. I mean, you even got them now saying that, well, John was going to kill him, meaning me. Now, John was on tape. So, guys in the car. There's a tape. You can look it up. Is that if I'm not around, Sammy's the boss.

So he's saying that to his people, doesn't know he's on tape. And you're saying he was going to kill me? It's so ridiculous. To say that. I mean, you could say a lot of things, I guess, and I can understand a kid. He hears things about his father, wants to say something positive about his father. But to lie over and over and over and over again, look, they did the Gotti movie with the son.

Every single something, mashed potatoes or sweet potatoes or whatever they, everybody evaluates the show, gave it a zero. And because that heat gotten caught in 50 million lies, when a guy comes out of the dark and shoots this guy who was a kid. kidnapper. They made the father do that. The father didn't do that. He didn't do it. There was another guy who did that. So you and John, you and Jr. haven't spoken. No. When's the last time the two of you spoke? Actually last time you spoke. Before I cooperate. Before you cooperate. So we're talking 40 years, 30 years? Yeah, 30-something years. 30-something years. We have 40 years. And your interaction with Was it like an uncle-nephew type of relationship? What was the relationship with you and Junior?

No, I didn't even have a relationship with him. So how many times have you even met him? How many times did you meet Jr.? I met him a bunch of times that he was around his dad and stuff. I was the guy who made him. Him and Mikey Scars. John came to me. I was already, I think the underboss when he got made.

And he said, Sammy, it's nepotism if I make my own son. I'm going to make, there's going to be eight, nine guys, you do the ceremony, and you make them. And one of them was Mikey Scars, one of them was his son. So I said, okay, I made them. Later on, he wanted to make his son a captain. And that bothered a lot of people, but he's the boss. And I went down with Frankie Lacassio and made him a captain.

Now, the kid had people around him who even John Gotti again is on tape and he's saying, my son has got these weird names. Where is he getting these kids? Who were these kids? A-Light is one of them and a whole bunch of kids. So, and John is disturbed at the people that he's running with. And then a hit that took place. It was about Frankie LaCalcalfrey.

It was about Louis de Bono got hit. You want to hear that? Louis de Bono, I had a clash with him earlier in life. They separated us. He, his captain, asked for my life. Paul didn't give it to him. They broke us up. Same family.

Same family. Before the head on Castellano. Now, later on, when Castellano was done, Frankie de Chico got killed. Joe Piny, we, me and John, said, Piny, let him take Frankie's spot.

Shooting is started. Everybody's shaking. He's an old-timer and he could cause them to relax. And we used him. They turned around and he's

just doing things and he tells me one day, Sammy, I'd like you to go partners with Louis de Bono because John needs a place where he's going to show, making money and stuff like that. So I said, I had a bad beef with him. I don't want to be partners with him. He said, he would never do it anymore.

He's got a history of that, but he won't do it no more. You're in big action now. Number one, John is the boss here, and the two he is will be partners with him. He'll never do anything like that. Is Louis a maid man? Is he a copper? What's his rank? He's a maid guy. So nothing big yet.

He's just a made guy. Yeah, he's a maid guy. Louis. And is he in Irving him money in? Is he somebody that's a performer? No, not really. I mean, he brings some things in. That's him.

And anyway, he convinces me to go partners with him. I go partners with him, and he does the same thing. And we're doing the job with him. See, he was a, union contractor. He could bid a job, get the job as a union contractor. Then he'd give it to me. I was non-union. The union one bothered me, I could get away with it. So instead of him paying like $30 an hour for union guys, I'm now paying $18 an hour for non-union. I give him like $22. So instead of paying $30, he's paying $22. Saving $8 an hour. With the workers?

one, two, I'm doing it. My workers are earning and I'm stopping the union from bothering you. So everything is going to work. So it's working and one day I'm in my office with my brother-in-law, Eddie, Garifola, and we're talking and we're losing money

and I don't get it. So I sit down with this guy, Joey Medonia, who's our partner in this drywall business I had with him and my brother-in-law. and we're trying to figure out how are we losing money why so we're looking through the supplies and everything and i look at a sheet of drywall four by 10 how much is that wow that seems like a big number and i said to my brother-law call this lumber yard up tell him that you're a sucker right off the street, you own a house,

you want to buy 8, 10 sheets of sheetrock. You're not going to get no discounts, you're not going to get none. How much is a sheet for you? As a nobody. He gets the number. It's seven and change. I'm paying 9, 10, and change.

And I'm buying thousands of sheets of yard drive wall. I says, there it is. We're being robbed right there. So I says, Eddie, go to the place, the lumber yard, and bring the guy in here. I want to talk to him. He comes in. De Bono. No, the lumberyard guy. I bring him in and I sit down. And I said, listen, I want to ask you some questions. I want you to tell me the truth. I'm not going to hurt you.

But I want the truth. And I'm going to warn you this. I know a lot of the answers. So he says, all right, all right, and he's nervous. He knows who you are. Yeah. Okay. And is he a Bono guy? No, he's just a lumber yard, no, owns the lumberyard. He owns the lumber yard. Yeah. What's his relationship with the bono? I'm going to tell you. Okay. So anyway, we start talking and I said, I had my buner car, your lumber yard, and he got a price of seven and change aboard. Like a sucker. He's going to buy five, six sheets of, he said, yeah, that's the price. I'm buying thousands of sheets and I'm getting wholesale prices and I'm paying two, three dollars a sheet more. How is that possible?

He said, Sammy, you said to do that. I said to do that. Yeah, your partner's with the bono, right? Yeah. He said the bono owes me six or seven hundred thousand. the previous word, and tells this guy overcharge on every sheet, whatever you make on that, deducted from what I owe. Got it.

So he used your relationship to pay off his $600,000 of debt. Yes. So every time I'm working with it. And this is the de Bono guy is the same guy that worked on the World Trade Center. His construction company apparently worked on the World Trade Center, and he was found killed in the garage or something like that? Yes. Okay. Yes.

So I tell John, I said, Joe Piny and John, he's robinous. He's robinous. So John don't want to hear it. He says, well, I don't think so. Well, here it is in black and white. He says, I'm going to look into it. So he looks into it, and the guy's robin us. He tells his son, John Jr.,

kill him you have the contract you're a captain now Bobby Port Borrello and a few guys that John put with him he's got a team that can do this kill him

the kid goes out he's looking for him can't find him nowhere he's out of the country that John tells me and Frankie La Casio he's added the country. He's on tape when we got arrested. The only reason I killed Louis de Bono is that what Sammy

said. He's blaming. He's blaming. No, John, Senior. Senior. He's on tape saying that. So, and all these other people. And I'll give you that, too. So anyway, we can't get him. go and I go to Joey Medonia. I had give him the company, walked away from the company because I got a bigger position. I said, you let me in when I was down. I'm up. I can't really work with you that much anymore. So the company is yours. If I could recommend a job to you, just make sure I get an envelope. But the company is yours. So now I see Joey Medonia again, and he tells me, Sammy. If you can get me some drywall work off of Louis de Bono, he's got a couple of billion dollars worth to work that he's going to get. Really billion?

Billion. And this is what year? 80 what? 80. In the 80s when he dies. So he's a big timer. He's like he's doing big jobs. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I was doing five million dollars job. The World Trade Center, he did the World Trade Center. He was one of the guys involved in building a World Trade Center? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the mafia was involved in building the dry wall of the World Trade Center? Yeah, we're not a doubt. If it went to Louis de Bono, that was me too, and we were doing it. So anyway, I said, he's out of the country. He doesn't know what's going on that we're going to kill him. So I said, he's out of the country, Joey. If he comes back, when he comes back,

I'll talk to him. If I could get a job, I'll bring it over to you. He tells me, he says, no, Sammy. He's not out of the country. What are you talking about? He says he's in the World Trade Center, in his office every day. I said, are you sure? He said, Sammy, parks right in the World Trade Center.

With his car on the back, on the plate, it says the bono. That's where he parks every day. Which building? He tells me the building. I'm dumbfounded, Pat. Okay. As soon as I talked to him, if I could get some work, I'll send it.

Of course, he's not in the life. He's a legitimate kid. I don't tell him nothing. He's not a kid. He's a man. So anyway, I leave. And I'm with Big Louis Valerio. And we're driving down New York to go to John's Club.

We stop at a place, a restaurant, near the Royal Trade Center. And I have to get these guys. one of the guys working for me, give him an envelope to bring to another family to give them the envelope from us. So he says, okay, he says, Sammy, you know, see the World Trade Center was under construction.

And he says, you see this dirt parking lot? You know, I have that. It's expensive to park in there. I park cars here. I'm making a bundle. Wow, it sounds good. He said, the bono is a friend of ours, right? Meaning a maid guy.

I said, yeah, yeah, of course. You know, he's parking in the World Trade Center, and I can make him park here. I'll charge him almost nothing. I said, where does he park? And he tells me the same place. Baseman. Baseman garage.

In the garage. And I says, okay, great. Of what building? So I said, okay, great. I appreciate it. I'll get back to you. Of course, he doesn't know, so I don't tell him either.

I get in the car, and we go down in New York, Frankie Lacassio is there. He knows what's going on a little bit. He's with the family as well? Yeah, he's, yeah. Is he a heavyweight? The Kunzee, yeah. Okay.

So I said, and he knows what's going on, but he don't know what I just found out. So I go down, and I take a walk with Frankie. I said, listen to this. John Jr.'s got the contract. He's swearing to us that he's out of country. He's fracking him out of the country. He's fucking right in the World Trade Center

in his own office every day, and he's parking in the world, say, building whatever, one, two, whatever it was. And this is where, and his car has the bono on the back. Frankie DeCastio is blown away. Oh, my God. His car has de Bono on the license plate? Yeah, the license plates as the bono.

Isn't that a bad move for a mobster to put your name on a life? He's a half a legitimate guy, half a mobster. Yeah, it's not a good move. But anyway, that's what he's got. Super wealthy guy, this guy's got money. Yeah, a ton of money. And so Frankie tells me, he says, Sammy, what are you going to do? When John gets here, I'm going to tell him.

This kid don't even know what the fuck he's talking about. He's in fucking Europe. He's tracking him in Europe. He's fucking right. here a couple of miles away from where we are right now. Standing. Sure enough, that's all Frankie knows.

At this point, does Frankie trust you more? Is he John's guy or is he your guy? Well, he's both of our guy. But is he more 70-30 John? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. But we're talking about a situation. There's none of do with our relationship.

So, John comes and I tell him, just what I told you. Senior. Senior. I said he's there. He looks at me like, I can't be. My son is tracking him. Well, do you want me to take care of this? I know where he's parking and where he is. You want me to take care of it? He'll be dead tomorrow. No. No, I'll take care of this. Okay. He takes care of it that he gives his son a hollering, What the fuck you were bringing in information? Here's where he is.

I know where he is. He's in the World Trade Secretary. This parking. That's where it is. Get Bobby O'Oorello, and I forget the other guy's name right now. Get them to kill this guy. Charlie Knessy.

Yes. Get them to kill the guy right away. Now we look like jerks. And he, to me, and to Frankie LeCassie. Now, maybe a week went by, they get another guy, an Irish kid. And they go in the World Trade Center in the spot, in the place, and they kill him. Exactly in that parking spot, exactly in that building, exactly what I was telling them.

And lo and behold, the Irish kid, I can't think of his name, but you can look him up, he cooperates after him. and tells the story of it. So. Who is he with? If he's Irish, who is he? He was probably with either, you know, Charlie Kinnig or the other guy. But he's now, of course, as an Irish, you're not tied to the mob. You may be a street guy, but you're not tied to, you're not part of the animal.

You could be tied to the mob, but you're not a maid guy. Got it. And maybe he's making his bones. He's doing a hit, whatever he wants to flip it. How quickly does he flip? I don't remember, but it took a while, but he's the guy who put it on record on who did what. And he knows juniors involved. He knows where the orders came from.

He knows all of it. He knows the whole thing. Yeah. And he knows that these guys, Bobby Borrello and Gene and this kid are going to take care of it. I don't know who shoots what and how who does what. I don't know. I never ask. The next time I hear about this, it's on tape where he's complaining about me.

and Frankie LaCasio is charged with the murder. Now, Frankie LaCasio did nothing. He knew what was going on. It wasn't part of the murder in any way, shape, or form. I cooperated. I leave. I tell the government's story. Frankie LaCasio is pitched,

and they're going to go on trial. I cooperate, I left. I don't want to go through that whole story again. But I left. What does it mean? I left them all, but I cooperated. I'm gone. So this is all happening at the same time?

Yeah, after. Okay. In stages. What's the timeline? What's the time? I cooperated why in 81. Okay. Something like that.

When did this happen? You cooperate 81, but when did the bono? When did that happen? when he got killed? A year before that? Before that? 89. Check to see when he got killed?

When did the bono get killed? What's the exact amount? I'm trying to see the timeline of how quickly those things go together. So in 1990. Yeah. And you cooperate, what, you're 89? In 90. One.

Okay, got it. So a little less than a year later. Mm-hmm. Okay? I'm really trying to see where you're going with. Yeah, here's where I'm going, is that We lost our lawyers in the case And we were going to replace them

Efflee Bailey was going to represent John We had a meeting, a co-meeting, we were all in the meeting And Flee Bailey says, John, you're all over this tape You killed this guy, he killed that guy, you did this, that, and the other thing You destroy Sammy on this tape you can't beat this case I could maybe try to make a plea agreement

he says no I have an idea and F. Lee Bailey tells him what's your idea I'm going to throw Sammy and Frankie under the bus Effleet barely leaves never comes back years later

Jerry Capice is talking to me you know Jerry Capetis he said Sammy I was out of prison a long time. He says, are you sitting down? I said, what happened? He said, F. Lee Bailey came in and did an interview with me

and I asked him, why do you represent John? Why did you leave and never go back? He said, I wanted nothing to do with setting up Sammy or Frank Ely Casio. F. Lee Bailey said this. Efflee Bailey. You know who's the first person I ever interviewed on Valuetainment, ever?

And he was great. And that's what he said. And you could check that with Jerry Capici. Huh. Because he wrote an article about it. Yeah. And he tells me that. And I said, wow.

This is unbelievable how this whole thing is coming together. So what is it happening? So this is nothing. No, he couldn't even do a fucking hit. It was right under his nose. And he's lying about that the guy's fucking... You were not in the car, Castellan. all of that.

All these things, he's so fucking full of shit. That's why I wouldn't sit with him for no money. What is it going to be? An argument? He says he wouldn't sit with me. I wouldn't sit with him. But that would tie the whole thing up if the two of you guys sat down.

Yeah. And I wonder when I sit there and think about it, who is less likely to do it? Obviously, I've asked Johnny. I've asked Junior, even then, when we went back and forth. Right. but, you know, I've talked to the family

and you know I've spent time with them and, you know, we had the conversation. I think the world would want to see the sit down. Now, whether that happens or not, who knows? That's a different conversation. Yeah. Now, you wouldn't do it, though. No, I wouldn't do it.

Now, he said I wouldn't do it if my mind gets it right. He says I wouldn't sit with him, meaning me, if you gave me a million dollars, right? Mm-hmm. Well, I wouldn't do it if you gave me $750,000. But if you gave me a million, I might do it. That is so funny. I would do it.

So I don't know if I would do that. I mean, he lies like, well, what's the sense of him lying? But you know, it was kind of like when you and Michael sat down together. One of the most special conversations was when Mario and I are sitting there and you and Michael are going back and forth. You know which one I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. We weren't even face-to-face. We were on a Zoom or something like that

because Mafia States was coming out. But you know what it was? It was like, boom, gone, moved on. Everybody went to the next story. And people get to pick and choose. Very few people are going to be like, if I'm a Sammy guy, I'm a Sammy guy. If I'm a junior guy, I'm a junior guy.

It's not going to change much. Maybe the 5, 10% are going to be in a middle to say, I side with Sammy. I side with junior. But I think for the sake of the history books, it would be a good conversation to see the two of you guys sit down together. And if it does ever happen, I know one good guy who would do one hell of a job.

Not two of them. I know one guy only. And you know that guy. Yeah, I think I. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's only one guy that could do that. Yeah. Well, I think I could do that with him.

You know, he even said in one of his things that he quit the life. He didn't want to be part of the life. He sat down with the government. There's people now talking about him. He cooperated. you sit with the government and you proffer. You know what that is. Come on, you sit down with the government,

your proffer, you talk about your roommate guy, you this or that, you know. Maybe he never took the stand, probably. But you profit. You sat and you talk with you. You know, you could say Joe Blow is a drug dealer. That's all. You're not going to take the stand.

They're not going to do anything. Sure. Right? Now all of a sudden the government's watching Joe Bolow. Blow. Sooner or later, a year goes by, Joe Blow gets pinch. He doesn't even know how. Why? Because he don't know what somebody said and it's never been released. And that's just what he did. So he's an informant just like anybody else is an informant. He could say whatever he wants to say. You know, a lot of guys don't like that. I hate that fucking label. But I know I'm stuck with it because of what I did.

Now, some people say, I don't blame me, I would do the same thing. But it's still, no matter what, that's the label that you get stuck with, and I'm stuck with it. I'm not proud of it. I don't like it. I never liked it. But I certainly wasn't going to go to prison on him using my lawyer and all the rest of the lawyers to back the government's case. The government puts out a case to put me a. away. We fight it.

We do whatever we got to do. He's backing it. I'm not going to say that John Gotti's a rat. I'm not going to say that. But what the fuck is that? If that's not a rat move, I don't know what is. You're going to naturally have

my lawyer and all the rest of the lawyers turn around and say, you heard the government's tapes and what the government's saying. Poor John God. It's not him.

You hear him complaining about Sammy. Sammy's the guy who did all these things. Now, I'm part of them. No question about it. I cooperated. I confessed to it, whatever I did in those things. But to say, I mean, some of the things he said were just so outlandish. He even talked about when they, his father,

Not as far as direct, but gave orders to kill the guy who killed his son in a car accident. And I heard John Jr. say, well, that's my dad. If you heard our family, it's what he's going to do. He didn't say he didn't do it. He admitted he did it. And I don't give a fuck what your story is. This is an innocent guy who was in a car accident. He didn't mean to kill the kid. Now, I am sure I would be sick if that happened to my son. But my son did get hit by a car, same as your son. He didn't die. The neighbor was petrified.

I told Luis Sassenti, bring that guy over to me. The guy came to me. I said, what did I hear you worried about me? About what? It was a car accident. Did you hit my son on purpose? No. Then why are you worried?

When John told me about the guy, the accident, I had told him, John. I loved him like a brother. Don't do this, bro. He's a legitimate guy who was a car accident. People love you. If you kill this guy, people are going to hate you. You can't kill an innocent guy in a car accident.

He came to your fucking house to apologize. You can't kill this guy. But he did it anyway. He went on vacation with his wife, and I think you know that story. It's no news to you. And he twisted it that, well, my father, that's, that's, that's, him. Then you called your father or monster. Not me. You did. You know what they would say if they were

sitting here? They would ask you a question you're not going to like. Yeah, go. Either junior or the sister or any one of them. Then because when I had you on the first time, they, they attack, or she attacked me nonstop and said, want you ask him about the 16 year old innocent boy that Alan, you know, Kaiser, you know, want you ask him about that. Sammy wants to act like, what do we do? But the guy, he shouldn't have taken that person out. He was a kid, right? Or the brother-in-law, that's an ice-cold killer. That's what the sister would say if they were sitting here.

I get it. But first of all, I did answer that. I did not shoot him. I'm on the head, and I'm responsible for the hit. But all I said is that when we went, we were looking for the other guy. I got his name. And we were hunting him. He came out of the house with this kid.

They make him, he's coming home with school books under his arm. That's all bullshit. He came out with this kid. The kid, the 60-mail kid, wasn't a target. He was nothing. I had a cast my entire foot all the way up to my thigh.

My leg was broken in three places. Now, when we seen the kid come back out, The guy we were going to shoot, Louis Molino had a shotgun on his lap. I had a pistol laying in the back seat, and Tato's nephew was driving. I said, Louis, the door was opening. Just open your window and tell him,

we're lost. Where is Avenue P? We were on King's Highway. Where's Avenue P? The plan was when he walks over to give you advice on how to get to Avenue P, I will come up and I will shoot him right in his fucking face. And I will kill him.

This is the guy who jumped me with a bunch of bikers in my club, broke my leg, I was looking to kill him. The guy that did that is not the 16-year-old. Exactly. Now, when he's walking to the car and Louis's asking him, I'm laying down, and this kid's on the side. He catches the vibe.

He must have known the fight prior night that they jumped and made guy. They heard him. He's Larry. When Louis asks him that question, he turns and starts to run. Louis opens the door real quick and throws a shot with the shotgun.

There's not double O buck or slugs. It's the BBs. And I could get to that after. And it hits him in the back. We see him. He goes forward. but he don't stop running. Tidal's nephew, Danny, screams to Louis.

The kid, instead of going back in the house, freezing or running the other way, he's running at Louis. And Danny... You're old. Yes. And Danny yells, Louis, you're back.

I hear Louis you're back. I come up. I'm trying to get my gun. If I could shoot him, I will. But I can't get to him. The angle I'm in laying on there with my leg all fucked up, I couldn't get the angle to shoot him. But Louis turned and blasted him once in the chest,

he fell to the ground, and blasted him another one I think in the head, forehead. And he's dead. And we take off. So I'm not saying I'm not part of this head. Never said that. I'm in. I'm part of it.

All I said is that's the way it has. And then they start saying, well, he's blaming Louis to put the weight on Louis. What fucking weight? I'm pinched on it. I didn't push no weight. I'm pinched. He's part of the 19 murders. I didn't say, hey, wait a minute, I didn't do it.

So I'm not, he's on my list. I didn't say I didn't do it. Well, my says I didn't shoot him personally, like they made it sound. They made it sound like some 16-year-old kid who's coming home with his fucking books. and we gunned them not me for no fucking reason. Do they make the claim that you shot him? Yes. So Junior makes the claim that you were not in the car

when you guys took out Castellano, but when it comes onto this case, you're the one that shot Alan Kaiser. Yes, which is bullshit again. Now, all I say is that... Sammy, who was there? There's got to be an autopsy. Cops got it. He was there.

Cops could say, okay, he was shot. Was shot not with a pistol, which was just saying, what Sammy had, he was shot with a shotgun. So that's all I'm saying. I didn't dump the weight on Louis, Milito. Why would I? So, and that's after Louis was dead. I believe the conversations that they're talking about after Louis was dead.

So why would I dump it on him? For what? What ended up being the consequences of Alan Kaiser? What ended up happening? Not that he's part of my 19. Got it. Nobody did time because. of that. That wasn't something that...

Nobody did time about it. I didn't rat on. Nobody including Tato's nephew, Danny. It's the original now you're hearing, as I'm saying, Danny, because Tato was going to propose this kid. And I went to Tado and I said, do you know

that this kid took a test to be a cop? Tadro? He said, no. Who told you that? Check with your family. He'd check with his family and he never made him. The kick could be dead by now. I don't even know. I never heard of him or more. Of course, I knew that Talbot was going to make him because he was on a hit with us.

And I never gave him up. And so that's the story. So I'm not saying I wasn't on the hit. I'm not saying I wouldn't have shot him. No, they would say to you, their argument would be when they would call me, it would be, this is how ice cold Samia is, how capable of, how capable of, he is that he'll take a 16-year-old's life. That's what they would say about you. So when you say, you know... I get it. Yeah, I get it, but it's not true. So they could say whatever they want to say.

What part of that would you disagree with? Like, at that point, were you an ice-cold killer that you would have taken anybody if the orders came in? If the orders came in, without a doubt. No orders came in for me to kill this kid. So you wouldn't dispute the fact that you were an ice-cold killer at that time? Oh, no. No. That's why I confess to everything I did.

Whether it was a fight, a murder, what part I took. I didn't shoot with the fucking Castellano people either. I was more of a planner than anything else. Always? Always. It started years ago before I even got made. Tidal called me in one day, and he says, I want to know something.

Well, I understand that every time you go, in a jewelry store or store. You're the first guy in, you pull out the gun, everybody get on the fucking ground. Why are you the fucking first guy who does that? I says, because my gumbana alley boy, he's tough as nails, and he's got my back. I'm comfortable with that.

He said, you're right. Your gumbana is tough as nails. He was in another family in the Genevice. He said, but he's reactive. If he sees a cop, who don't even know what the fuck is going on. He was walking by, he'll shoot the cop. Won't even hesitate.

Am I right? I said, yeah, probably. He said, you, what the fuck would you do? I said, I would analyze it. Maybe the cop don't know what's going on. If he's walking nonchalant, if he knew what was going on, he'd have his gun out, and I would shoot him.

But if it's just walking nonchalant, It happens. I wouldn't have to shoot him. Everybody keep fucking quiet. Whatever. So you would think your way out. Yes. That's the difference between you and Ellie.

Let Ali go in, pull the gun, tell everybody to get on the floor and you take his back. You're not reactionary. You'll think. If there's a problem, you will think your way out before you fucking kill people. I know if there's a problem, you'll shoot the guy. Sammy, have any of these, you know, like you said earlier, you got a random phone call.

Oh, we haven't even talked about that. We'll get into that with the whole FBI stuff and James Comey. We'll get into that here in a minute. But have you ever gotten a random phone call of one of these families that later on you testified, you addressed that I did take these guys out? Did any family member ever confront you? Did anybody ever call you? Handmade in Portugal.

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The FLB iconlofer made for the life you've earned. Yes. Who called you? There's a Spanish guy who we killed, and I can't think of his name, but he's on my list. If you look at my list, he's a Spanish guy.

Puerto Rican. De Bernando, Mormando, Santiago, John Santiago. John Santiago. One day my phone rang. and he says, is this Sammy? I says yes.

And he says, I'm Johnny San Diego's son. Son. Son. He says, could I talk to you? I said, yes. What do you want to know? He said, all I want to know, Sammy, I understand the life a little bit and my father was around it.

Why did he die? Why did he get killed? Why did you kill him? I said, I'm going to tell you the whole story. Don't interrupt. Don't hang up. Is he being a jerk? Is he being fair? Is he respectful?

No, no. He was very respectful and fair. How old was he when he called you? 20s, 30s? 20s, probably. I got it. I don't know. So I said, your father was fucking Stymie's brother's wife.

And he knew us and everything. Stimie came to me and. told me, Sammy, I want to kill this kid, Santiago. He was one of my top guys. I said, why? He says he was fucking my brother's wife. I said, you know I have to go get permission from Tato and then Paul. I need to ask you questions.

He said, what? Did he rape? The wife, the brother's wife. Yeah. Did he rape her? No. Did he force her? He's asking you this question. I'm asking him, stymie. I'm telling him what I'm asking, Steinbe. If John Santiago forced her or raped her? Yes, I'm asking stymie.

Right. And he says, no, I don't think so. Do we kill your sister-in-law, too? He says, Sim, that's my sister-in-law. She wasn't raped. She wasn't raped. enforced, she's a participant in this. We're going to just kill him and she's okay. I don't want to ask you another question. Is this going to make their marriage better because we kill him? She said, how am I supposed to know? I have to know. I have to know. I'm your boss. I have to bring it to Tidal. I have to bring it to Paul. I got to ask them.

I'm going to kill a fucking guy who fuck somebody who's not even in our family. I need those answers. He couldn't answer. I said, Stimmy. Listen to me. I know you're hot with this. He disrespected you. And I get it.

But you're not asking me you would like to break his face. You'd like to give him a fucking beating with your hands. You're asking me to kill somebody. Mm-hmm. I said, here's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to say no, maybe down the road. Let's sit with this a while. I'm not going to go to ask permission,

and we'll put it on the side until we really live with this for a while, and we see what happens. I was dead against it. This is what I'm telling this story. One night I get a call, a couple of weeks later. Sammy, come down right away. Now, I don't question on my phone, what happened?

When I hear that, my guy saying, come up right away. I know there's something really bad that happened, and I jumped in my car, and I drove down. What happened? Hook told me. And I said, what happened? Sammy got in the car with the Santiago guy, and he was a little drunk

and he killed him. Oh my God. He killed him? Yeah. Is the car still around? We put it somewhere. They just clean it up. You got the gun that he used?

His clothes? Get this fucking car and clean it up. Clean it. Burn it. Get rid of it. We already got the gun. throw it in the fucking ocean I never want to see it

or hear about it again to get his fucking clothes that he wore when he was in the fucking car and throw those clothes away too I cleaned it up that's all I did knowing that a hit took place knowing that I cleaned it up

made me part of it I'm telling the son That's the reason why what happened. And he asked me, Stimmy broke the rules. And under your own rules, questions you asked were great. Did you kill him? No, of course not. He was proposed to become made.

Stimmy. Stimmy. I put him on a side for a while showing him that I was super mad. I can't, I'm not gone. I can't bring back a body. I can't bring back. But I made him know I was not happy with this fucking thing. But I had no control over it.

I did. And when I did, I told him, leave it on the side. And we'll talk about it. Figuring that over time, he'd say, all right, I mean, she cheated. She went with her. She's good looking, whatever. He would forget it or say, okay. Maybe I'll just go break his face.

And I would have told him, go. go. You want one or two guys to go with you? You want me to go with you? What the fuck you want to? Then we give him a good beating. He deserves a beating for what he did. Of course, that's disrespect. But he didn't deserve to die. The son on the phone told me, Sammy, I just don't know how to thank you. I know why my father died. And he was a lady's man and did shit a couple of times people would tell him stop some of the things you're doing. I want to thank you. I never heard from him again.

Never bothered me. I never bothered him. That was it. He heard the story, understood the story, knew I was telling the truth, and I told him. I'm charged with it. I could tell you anything.

I could tell you I killed him. It doesn't change my charge. There's no reason for me to lie to you. None. You asked me like a gentleman why your father was killed, and I told you like a gentleman, truthfully,

because I think you deserved that answer. I told him like that. That's a wild story. Any time, like, when you're telling some of these stories, other guys who were made man or were in the life, maybe they've left,

or it's been a couple decades, that they ever call you and say, Sammy, why are you lying? That's not really what happened, you know, or question some of this stuff. No, they'll say it on their channels and their shit. Not channels. I'm talking somebody that is not a YouTuber,

doesn't want to create content, but somebody that's a real guy that is not even wanting to sit down with anybody, just calling, say, Sammy, why did you tell that story? Or even, why are you telling these stories publicly? As anybody from the families called you and say, Sammy, stop talking? Not one. Not one.

No. Why do you think? Because they're true. You know, we talked about, when I was going to get sentenced in a case, Michael DeBatt's sister brought a whole letter I was going for sentencing.

How of a vicious, nasty, cold killer, serial killer, whatever the fuck, she put in this letter to give me the maximum I could give. The judge picked up the letter and read it. I was in court. And he says to her. I don't want to mention her last name or her. He mentioned her. I read your letter. He called her up front.

I read your letter and it seems like you're very angry at him you worked for him it doesn't bother you that your brother was out killing with him never bothered you it only bothered you now

that your brother got killed and he threw the paper down on the desk and obviously he didn't pay in no mind You know, so it's a lot with these cases and these things. A lot of them run around with things. I always told my family, if I get killed tomorrow, don't blame the guys who kill me.

They're under orders. They might like me and they might love me. If they don't do it, they're going to get killed. And they know that. And they're under orders and they're in their life. Don't get mad at them. It's the guy who wanted it So that is the life

That's the oath you take when you come in the life You live by the gun You die by the gun Do the right thing When you're in the fucking life You survive the life Maybe But you're in this life

You're not This isn't no candy-ass fucking joint Everybody worries about every little shit There's guys who get killed in here For nothing sometimes You know that Patrick There's guys left and right. And you don't have

the fucking right, John Jr. to come up, put me down and complain about me. When you're, if I killed 19 people who are involved in 19 murders, how many fucking murders is your father involved in? 50?

When you open your fucking mouth, open it. And tell the truth. How many were you in? You killed some fucking innocent kid in a bar fight. I remember your father and all of men We paid the fucking cops $25,000 to cover you to fuck up Talk

You want to talk You want to talk with Patrick Patrick Bred David and talk Say the fucking truth Talk Don't lie to him Because he's got a big file And you want to get your fucking voice out

If you're going to talk with him Patrick's the best guy I did it I talked to him a couple times I'm talking to you're now but tell him the truth, go tell him the truth. Because if he don't smell the fucking truth, he's going to be on it. We're talking, I don't know how long. You double-checked me three times, four times already.

And that's the way I'm supposed to be. That's why I was meant. That's what you should do with John Jr. Oh, you're making some heavy accusations. And we're just saying that Sammy wasn't involved. The whole fucking world knew he was involved. The Brooklyn Police, New York, police, FBI, people who cooperated.

There's so much. And then why would he just co-opt to say he did it? Why would he confess to a fucking massive murder, double murder? If he didn't do it. It's like me saying, I killed John Kennedy. Why would I do this? And I didn't do it. To make myself famous, I'm not completely out of my mind. And so that's it. And murders bothered me. I never enjoyed a murder. never there's murders that I did that bothered the shit out of me I think you know that I'm doing a movie about the Iceman uh not the ice man the um um the Johnny Keys hit and that thing just literally

broke my heart there's another one with Louis Molito just wipe me out I was a kid growing up fishing, hunting. We did everything together. Louis's almost on every single murder I'm on. Why would I lie about that one? He's almost done out every one. He was a tough bastard. Everybody knew that.

People who were legit. People who knew them down, who were not in the streets. I got friends who talk about him. I tell them, listen, I don't even want to talk about it, you know. but because it just breaks my heart what he did. It did stupid shit and got himself killed.

You know, you and I have spent a lot of time together, a lot. You know, outside of the interviews and stuff and the stuff on camera, we've had dinner, we've had conversations. Absolutely. And one of the stories I want to get into, we were talking about it briefly. This came up, I think, a week ago with you and James Comey, you know, DOJ sought input on the Comey case from the Tory Semitable Gravano defense says, if you can go a little bit lower, you know, less than a month ago, the FBI director

James Comey's indictment earlier this year prosecutor sought the assistant of the notorious gangster Samuel Gravano to build their case against him. His defense lawyers alleged in a court filing on Tuesday prosecutor, an FBI agent allegedly interviewed Gravano to understand if Comey's experience prosecuting the Gambino family in the 1990s would have led him to believe that the term 86 was a reference to murder or violence. a federal grand jury indicted Comey on two charges in April for posting the picture on his Instagram account of Seychelles spelling 8647. Gravano, who confessed to his involvement of 19 murders, including those of his best friends

and his brother-in-law, before cooperating with prosecutors, told the prosecutor and FBI agent that he did not interpret Comey's 8647 Seashels posed to be personal threat to President Trump according to his defense lawyers. Is this story true that they call you? did they reach out to you? Well, I do have a lawyer, and I'm not going to answer a lot of questions with this, but like you said, we do have a relationship. Yes.

Did they call me? Yes. I'm not going to talk in depth of it, but I sat in my house one day. My phone rang. A woman said, is this Sammy the boat? And I said, yeah. who's this? And she says, I'm the FBI.

I want to talk to you. So I said, before you go any further, you know I'm on parole. If you're an FBI agent, you must know I'm on parole. Yes, we know. Well, my instructions were my parole officers that I don't answer any questions with cops, FBI or anybody unless I talk with them

and they say it's okay for me to talk so if you do me a favor I don't know who you want I don't know if you're the FBI I don't know if you're a newswoman trying to get under my skin or whatever the fuck it is but call my FBI parole officers

and if they talk to me I'll maybe talk to you so I'm going to hang up on you I'm not going to be abusive and hang up. With all due respect, I'm going to hang up, and I'm not going to make any comments to you. So if that's what I told the FBI, that's what I'm telling you. That's funny. Got it.

Well, let me ask the question. Listen, if I'm called there, I'm already telling them, I'll give you a little bit. If I'm not subpoenaed it, I'm not going. I'm not, you know, I'm just not doing it. I'm subpoenaed and I have to go because of my parole. I'll go and we'll take it from there.

Did the Italian mafia, did the mob ever use the word 86? Was it like a terminology you would use or not really? Well, you know, I know, you know, I had a dish of fucking rigatone one time. I said, well, 86 this.

Get it away from me. 86 means to me, get rid of it. Whatever it is, get rid of it. 86. But does it mean kill, or does 86 mean get rid? Could it be translated as kill? Now, anybody who said this, as Patrick is dumb, is fucking crazy.

Because look at it what he's doing. He's trying to make me talk. I'm asking you a question about eight. I'm doing math. I'm trying to get better at math. Yes, well, here is what I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you this. I know you're a math guy.

Yeah. Now, if, God forbid, I'm going to use you as an example. Sure. The guy calls me up. We're going to 86 Patrick with David. I would hang up and I would say they're going to kill Patrick. Got it. I mean, what else could it mean?

It's, you know, everybody in the country, I think, knows what 86 something means. So they, you know, it's that. Now, as a gangster, did I use 86? If I was going to kill somebody, no. Because I think any moron would understand, I'm going to kill, I'm going to 86 Patrick. Oh, you hear what Sammy said? He's going to try to kill Patrick.

So I don't know all this gobbly group, you know, what they're talking about or what all he's charged about. I didn't get any of that information. Now, his lawyer must have got some information from them saying that I'm going to be on trial or be called. And so I guess we'll wait for that. I remember when we spoke with Mew and Michael, Michael used the phrase baloney.

And I'll never forget you said, who uses that word? This is why I wonder, because I don't know the language on how you guys speak, right? I'm not in the life. I've just spent a lot of time with you guys. And you're like, who says baloney? Nobody says baloney.

Nobody. Do you remember that exchange? It was one of the funny moments of that. There was a few of them. Oh, yeah, what he told me? Sammy, that's Bologna. Well, who the fuck uses that termination? Wait, it's different.

We're both good with Michael. Michael was here. I know you got a relationship with him as well. But he comes out with some things. Yeah, yeah. He said Bologna four times. I remember that. So, okay, so 86.

By the way, did you ever have any dealings with Comey back in a days? Did you ever do anything with Comey back in a days or no? I mean, I tell you, this guy's brilliant. Yes, I did. didn't. There was a case years ago. 90s, 2000. 80s. We stopped in over there. You know, I, you know, look at him. Here he is. He's already pulling it up. I mean, you know, it's, what's fascinating to me, I'm not saying what he did, but I mean, if he took 86, 47, in seashells, took a picture of it, and put it out for the world to see,

that's about as stupid as you couldn't do. I mean, first of all, the president you're talking about had three attempts on his life. And now this, every screwball in the world, maybe not me or other guys, I don't know, but would look at that. And, you know, from a high official, it's like I got a license, let me go kill Trump. So I don't know what his actual charges and what the FBI are pretty good with me.

I'm waiting to hear. Have you ever been in the same room together? Yeah. You have? In the 90s. Yeah. So was he one of the guys that when you cooperated, he was in the room questioning all of that? No.

What do you mean, question? Was he one of the guys in the room when you eventually decided that I'm done, I'm leaving a life and I'm going to go cooperate? Was he one of the guy? No, I don't think he's in there. But I was on a couple of trials that. Was he a heavyweight even in the 80s and the 90s? Like, this is somebody you knew that this guy's?

Oh, yeah. He was a, what was he? He was a head FBI guy. He was a head, what, some sort of attorney general. He was powerful. He was a young assistant to U.S. attorney in Southern District of New York. He worked on organist, organized crime prosecutions of all the Gambino family. Sammy Gravano had become the government star cooperating witness and turned on Gotti.

Comey was part of the federal prosecution effort against Gambino figures, although he was not the lead prosecutor in the famous Gotti trial. Interesting. No, he wasn't the lead. He was. But I had a couple of tries. I had a nine trials. So one of them, he was.

He was one of them. Was he strong? Did you get a vibe of a, you know, formidable guy or? Oh, he was a strong guy, yeah. Yeah, he wasn't a weak guy. He was strong. Did Goddy know of him? Like, did God he know who he was?

Or not really? I really don't know. I don't know if Goddy knew him. I don't know if I knew him before the Godi arrest. I mean, I don't remember. I don't know. But you've been in the same room with Comey before. Oh, absolutely.

Multiple times? Yes. dinner, playing cards, domino, chess. What was the occasion? I can't tell you. Really? Cases. On cases.

Wow. So more than five times? More than ten times? No, we can't talk. No, I take the fifth. Really? You're going to do Fauci today? Fouchi?

Fouchie pleaded the fifth, 111 times. I mean, that's a disgrace. It is. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. This guy killed millions of people. And they may get away with it.

I can't see how he's going to get away with it. You saw what they're doing. Trump announced today that he's removing all the auto pen, you know, his executive orders that Biden did of 92% wasn't signed. It was all auto pen. And if he does that, Rand Paul is going for Fauci. Rand Paul wants to get him. I think there's more than them.

I mean, listen, it's so obvious. That I could talk about. It's so obvious what he did. It's really disgusting. You really got me curious with this Comey thing. Yeah. Really? You've never told the story.

Here's what I'll do. If I go down and I cooperate and I'm in this trial, you call me down, I'll come and do them. The first guy I'll come. No, no, but what is interesting about this is, are you not able to talk because you're dealing with the FBI right now? Or are you not able to talk because you don't want to talk about your relationship

with Comey from the 90s? Those are two different things. Yeah, but I've hit both chords. I hit both. So which one is it more? Both. So you've never talked about this with Comey, though. No, this, the Seashals.

No, not the Seashells. Seashels is recent. The stuff from the 90s, you've never talked about that. No. No. Now you got me and everybody else watching, curious. Yeah, well, that's what I do. Do you think Comey's a nice guy?

You think he's a good guy? You know, I don't have an opinion. Like, I don't hate the guy like I want to go down and testify that I don't, and I really don't like him. I don't give a fuck about him if he goes to prison or he stays out of prison or I don't have any kind of grudges with him if that's what you're getting a guy. No. I just think that an intelligent guy, if this is true what he did, you know, and I don't know what witnesses they got or what they're doing, they didn't tell me. So I think it's as stupid as you can get. I mean, I know I would never use the terminology on a murder or anything like that or a attempted murder. to use the terminology 86, because I would think

that every FBI agent and the world in the country would know what I'm talking about. Unless I was in a restaurant and I didn't want the food, then it's obvious. He doesn't want the food. He's arguing with the food.

But the relationship with Fauci is not that you guys broke bread. It's not a relationship. It's more about as an AG. Is that fair? Or was there a relationship between the two of you? I love this guy.

This is the same. You know, what do they say? You got to wait until the end of the thing. He's going on trying, what, in October? Yeah. It's right around the corner. Let's see what happens. Interesting.

You know, very interesting. You know what's scary you like a little bit? All of these heavyweights, it's Democrats a lot. You do something and there's going to be a witness. witness disappears, the witness hanged himself for all of these fucking things. You know, I'm expecting someday, I mean, if he's panicking about me, they might be panicking about me.

They may say, let's take this motherfucker out. Yeah. If they think I know a lot and I'm going to hurt him, maybe that's what they would want to do. So I would advise them myself, make sure you don't. mess because we'll be talking about you. Because these fucking people are fanaticing with this stuff. They really are.

And it seems like every time they get some sort of a case, who disappears, who commits suicide, who falls on a knife, who does this or who does that. It's dangerous. These people are dangerous people. Yeah. You're almost uncomfortable talking about it. No.

I'm not uncomfortable talking about it. And if I was, I mean, I'm talking about it. I'm going to be there if I'm subpoenaed. And we see how it goes. And, you know, then you just do what you've got to do. But in other words, I don't want to add to this explosion I got, it was on the Statenown advance friends of mine and sending me. Look what they're saying about you.

I got another guy who talks about me all the time. Look, he's ratting. I'm not ratting. I don't even know what I'm talking. the fuck who's going on. You don't know what's going on. I'm ranting? How am I ratting? It is what you know about Comey. If it came out, would it destroy his reputation? I don't know. I don't know. Does he have a lot of reputations? He got a good reputation? No, no, no. I'm talking about with you from the 80s and 90s.

Yeah, but I'm saying the 80s and 90s, does he have a good reputation? No, but if if the stories of what the relationship is with you from the 80s and 90s were to come out, would it affect them negatively? Or would it affect you negatively? I don't know. You know, what I learned in this life is that those 12 jurors make up their mind what they're going to do with, what they're going to believe or what's going on.

I don't know. They may love him. You're going to put 12 Democrats on the stand. They might love him. Oh, he was saying this about Trump. Oh, I love him. This is how twisted the country. is right now. But I'm talking about the truth because you talk about the truth. If what the relationship

of you and him, if that ever leaked, would that hurt him or help him? I think you should get him on. Oh, he won't do it though. He won't do it? No, he won't do it. Call me, call me a lot of these guys, Sammy, they're better off just keeping their mouth shut and disappearing and going to all those fancy dinners and Long Island and, you know, the Greenwich and all the stuff that they go to and behind closed doors. They should live that life. The more they open up their own. The more they open up their mouth, the more they incriminate themselves, these guys. I agree with you. Yeah.

And I'm in the same boat now. It's the same of my, I can open up my mouth and get myself in trouble. Well, let's go to a couple things, and I'll wrap up. The story with Mom Dani came out. You know, I'm curious to know how you handle it. Mom Dany has the story comes out, and they talk about all these places in New York, and he puts the map of New York City's immigrant neighborhood, sparks out. for ignoring little Italy.

I'm sure you saw that if you want to go a little bit lower. Yeah, yeah. And this is the map. So you see the map, New York City immigrant enclaves, right? Zoom in a little bit because my eyes, I can't see anything. So you got Chinatown. You got Chinatown in Sunset Park, Guyana, Korea Town, Little Africa, Albania, you know, Colombian, Dominican Republic, Ecuador.

You got everybody. Manila, Mexico, Odessa, Palestine, Pakistan, Poland, Ukraine, Yemen, Egypt. Little Haiti, little India, and you forget Italy? You think this was an intentional error or an accidental error? I think it's intentional and stupid at the same time, almost putting it together with Comey's stupid and accidental or whatever. I think this is the same thing. This guy has got to be out of his mind in New York to do this.

is obviously against Jewish people. New York is full of Jews all over, and they're good people. And you throw Italians out. I think you just put two races and nationalities together in a relationship. You know, I remember when they did the Italian American League,

the Jewish Defense League came down. and rallied for us. Now you've got two of them together. I would imagine that in New York, now you're going to have the Jews and the Italians rallying for each other and make you make your friends with them. But they like each other or not. We both got thrown out. I think it's a dumb move, but I'm really amazed. I was born and raised, as you know, in New York all my life. I'm amazed how they voted him in. It's a lot of these young kids coming out of college. And they don't have a clue when they're going against somebody who's, this kind of a mentality against Christians, Jews, against all kinds of different things. Why would you want this guy in? This is your end result.

Like when they say, when you vote, you got, well, you got what you want and now live with it. and deal with it, and that's what they got. Yeah, but do you think he is intentionally leaving Italians out, or do you think that's a mistake? I think it's a big mistake. I mean, there's a lot of Italians in New York and every single part of New York. Is there anything in here about Jews?

Nothing. So no Jews, no Italians. And if you look at the population of Italians in New York, it's 7.6%. What are the top, I don't know, top five biggest, let's see, ethnicity population in New York City. I'm curious.

What are the top five? 2.7 to 3.1, that's in New York. But New York City is going to be, you know, 800,000. So number one is Puerto Ricans. Then you got Italians. Then you got Dominicans. Chinese, Irish, Mexican, German, Russian, Polish. and you leave Italians

and they're the second biggest population in New York City, it's kind of weird. It is weird. It's kind of weird. And Jews is 1.3 million. And so number one is Jews. He left it out. Number three is Italian.

You leave it out. Sammy, Italians, would you get, would the Italian mob, like all the families, would you all consider yourself patriots like love America, assimilate this, the greatest country in the world? Was that the mantra for Italian mob?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. There was a lot, a lot of people I know, including myself, was in the military, was willing to fight for the country. A lot of guys. Guys were older than me back in World War II and stuff like that. Oh, tons of guys. My father was an immigrant.

He was a patriot. He loved the country. He loved the flag. He loved what he did. You know, they were innocent people trying to make a living, trying to grow. So, yeah, I think the mafia is patriotic, you know, patriotic about things, you know, not to a tremendous degree that they're going to go crazy fighting over it. But, yeah, I think in what lady, believe in everything, the flag, you've seen with holidays

and stuff like that, they're good. They care about the country. My father, the first thing I spoke was Italian. I never even knew how to speak English when I was a kid because they were all Italians. They were all Italians, and that's all I learned. My father had said, we've got to stop doing this. Look, he can't even speak English.

We came to this country. We've got to believe their laws, their flagged, their country, and their language. And all my grandmothers and everybody started talking English more. Every once in a while they talk in Italian, but they did it because they wanted to be part of this country. You're not here to divide the country. You're here to make it bigger and stronger and better. And if you left from someplace that was fucked up,

this is more of a reason that you're going to come here and say, I'm going to make this better. I'm not going to make this. It's not happening with everybody, though. No, I know. It doesn't happen when everybody, because people have personal greed and selfishness. But you have to understand that, you know,

when people make a move, like let's say Donald Trump, He makes a move. He may benefit 80% of the people. 20% are going to suffer a little bit. And they're going to be so loud and crazy about it. And that's the way it is. You can't fix everything. You're always going to hurt somebody.

You do something one way. A lot of people are going to like it. And a lot of people are not going to like it. That's just the way it is. Kennedy once said, Don't ask what the country could do for you. Ask what you could do for the country. But people don't have that mentality.

They don't. They're always worried about what could it do for me. Sammy, you know, you see some of these things that's happened in two kids in America. I don't know if you watched the movie Citizen Vigilante, you know, with the Uwe Bowl, or you saw a guy named Rupert Lowe, talk about the $250,000. young girls that were raped in UK and London and 87% were Pakistani Muslims that did this to kids. And what would happen when you guys were fully active in the 80s? If an innocent young girl was raped by an older 30, 40 year old boy, man, what would you guys do?

How would the mob get involved? We would kill them. Listen, there was that guy that son of Sam and ran around. Now, we never bought it with the cops. when he was running around his neighbor's dog was telling him to go kill people

who are making out in the car and love his lanes a dog the guy was fucking gone the mob kind of was hunting him too I remember sitting in the car

with a girl making out I had a fucking gun on me whatever she was doing I was looking out the window I didn't want to get shot in the fucking head with this lunatic. I didn't know who he was. And then they caught him in the way they caught him. He got a ticket.

He got this, he got that. He went to prison. They're gone. Mentally. I think most people don't want him or things. No, I get that. But what I'm trying to do is sometimes people are like cops are not even getting involved to protect people. And some of that stuff is not happening.

Did you guys take it upon yourself with men like this to get rid of them? Sure. Sure. A child molester on the streets in Benson Heights, Brooklyn, or a rapist, I think he would get killed. I don't think he would get killed. In my time, if you're talking, he would get killed. Now, what it is right now, I don't know. But in my time, he would get killed. And in my time, when I went to prisons, nobody wanted to be with them. You get a child molester or a rapist. Sometimes they would get killed or beat up in prison. Nobody wanted to be around them.

What would happen to child molesters in prison? Like, did anybody make it? Did they get beat up every day? Would they protect them? Yeah, a lot of times they had to move them to a special place. Special place, they had to get them away. Because somebody's always given them a problem, which they should. They're at least on the total poll of people that are respected.

they don't they don't respect you they respect killers all kinds of things but not those kind of crimes because killers and everybody has families everybody's got families everybody relates to oh my god he raped a 10 year old or a 12 year old girl or a boy they relate to it in a negative way we can't stomach that You know, and I don't want the guy in the same room as me. Listen, I hit a guy in prison, a priest, who got arrested for doing things. My lawyer, I'll never forget, it came to me, says Sammy, there's a whole thing. Did you hit a priest?

I said, yeah. He said, are you sick? The newspapers are going to pick that up? They're going to say, you hit a priest in prison. I said, bro, he was talking to me about what he does. What? That when kids come in, he flashes them, and he was giggling and laughing what it was about.

And I slapped him. I didn't really go to work on him bad. I just slapped him. I couldn't stomach listen to him. This guy's your cellmate? No, he wasn't my cellmate. He was in the unit. What made him feel comfortable sharing those stories with you

on what he does to young boys. Because he felt that talking to me, I rather than I'm a, I'm a parasite. Oh, whatever the fuck it is, he felt, something like that. And he could talk to me about it. I didn't get it at first when he was telling me. He says, you know, the little girls, they love it. They love what?

He says, when I sit in the car, I got a coat on. I called him over. I got candy, I got there. they come running over. And then when I expose myself, they start giggling and laugh at me. And then it's great. And I hit him.

And then the prison came and talked to me. Even the prison, I thought I'm going to go in the hole. I didn't even go in the hole. They got rid of him. Of course, the guards were against it. It's a priest. It was a priest. Let me tell you his story.

He was a priest who was doing this to kids, little boys. And he got caught up. and they moved him from Arizona to another state. But they didn't throw him out. They just moved him. Years later, one of those kids that he bothered, grew up, went to school, became a cop. The cop became like a sergeant or something like that.

He was the head of a squad going after job molesters. And he called the guy up, the priest. and said, my name is Joe Blow, and I want to thank you. I'm gay today because of you, and he starts saying, I thank you for showing me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he talks back to him. Right after that phone call, it's bugged, obviously, he's arrested. In Arizona, he brings him back to Arizona.

Set him up. Set him up. Bring him back to California. He's admitting a whole fuck, not California, Arizona. He is admitting the whole thing, everything he did. Now, when he's sitting with me in a unit, he's became a witness to tell what they do with priests who do this. They just move them to another place,

and then he just keeps doing what he's doing. They don't get rid of him. They don't do anything to him. So he's riding on bishops and whatever the whole system So hearing that I couldn't stand him to begin with

What do you think needs to happen to these types of people What do you think he should happen to guys like this? Well that bare minimum To take the priest, throw them out Let him go to prison Just like anybody else I think that's enough And I let the inmates take care of them

Yeah Yeah well I think it's an at least. Maybe it's not enough, but it's at least, do that. If you move them to Florida, what's going to stop him?

He's going to do it again? You didn't stop them. You just transferred them. That's bullshit. So, I mean, you've got to give them some sort of punishment or something. It's disgusting.

It's happening. You know, it's interesting story. You have a daughter. I got two daughters. Okay. I got your son on the phone. your son

he hits in the phone he said my father's not here take my word for it he won't call you back for two weeks I love that call he's so funny yeah boy but do you remember the first time

your daughter brought a boy home to introduce to boyfriend and what your reaction to it was yeah well I think I don't remember

the first one, but I think I was cool with it. My daughter was very grounded. She was a tough kid. She was a very grounded kid. When she was, you know, I was very strong with her, and so it was my wife. One day, I came home. I went in the kitchen. She came in the kitchen, and she started crying. I said, what are you crying about? She says, and when I went out, out with my girlfriends. Yeah. And we were drinking and I took a little coke. Why are you crying?

She says, I know I was wrong. And I just wanted to tell you. I said, that's good. Because you knew what you did, you made a mistake and you did something wrong. And you're confessing to me. So I'm not going to be mad at you. Stay with that kind of an attitude. Stop crying.

I love you. I appreciate. You are honest. And you know this is going to hurt you down the road. Stay away from all that crap. And she did. She became very grounded, my daughter. So, the same thing with my son.

So knock on wood, I was a little strong and a little tough with them, but they turned out to be two great kids. I mean, my daughter does interviews and things, people and had she's a workaholic she works you know a heart out she's open-minded and um so she had a problem she was able to trust me enough to sit with me and tell me the problem i was man enough to not to hit her or turn around and scream at her and yell at her i said you did the best thing you can done was tell me the truth and i see the way you're crying and you're looking for forgiveness, you got it.

And I think doing that, people have to be patient with their kids. Kids listen to other kids. They go out with other kids and do things. You have to understand that's part of life and try to cut that all out and do the best you can with your kids. Stay on top of it. Don't go like a raving maniac. Give them respect.

Let them love you and respect you. and if they make a mistake, they may come back. I'm working on a program now, Prep National. I don't know if you heard about it, but Prep National. I want to ask you a question about this going into Prep National. The question I want to ask you is, I remember the first time I had you on the podcast, 2019, the first one that we did were, you remember that one.

One of the questions I asked you is when you went to jail, you know, did you find Jesus? And I don't know if you remember that question or not. And here's the segment of it in the interview. I want to play this clip in and I want to ask you what happened next. Go for it. A lot of people go to prison. They find McAvelli.

Some find Jesus. Who did you find in prison? You know, I looked for Jesus. I looked for prayer. And Jesus wasn't in any of the prisons I was in. And I already knew Macon. What I understood is this. Everybody believes in God in one form or another.

All the religion. is nothing more than a road to God. The Jewish community has it. The Christians have it. The Catholics have it. The Indians have it. Everybody has that road to God, the Wicca people. They all have the God.

The road is different, and we start arguing, fighting over it, but we all have the God. That's what it is. If you believe in God, it doesn't matter whether you believe a monkey. That's good. The guys I saw that found Jesus in prison, I've seen guys who found

And they're usually crying and whining and asking you for less time and want to get out and do this, that, and the other thing. Or it's an excuse for something else. The devil made me do it. I didn't do this on my own. I mean, I would love, you know, this is what they would say if they were made. The devil made me do it. I found Jesus in prison. And I became a holy roller.

And that's it. No. I would be lying through my teeth. And one thing God's going to do with me, I always said this. When I get up there, if I get up there. He's gonna say one thing about you, Sammy. You're not a fucking phony or a liar. You tell it like you feel it.

You did what you did, and whatever's gonna be is gonna be. But to start lying and crying, how are they gonna face God? All of me is a lying about Jesus. You didn't believe Jesus. You ever had to get out of prison. But now you gotta face God. He's gonna know you're full of shit. You go on the express on that train over there.

Get the fuck out of here. So I don't know. What's changed? A lot changed. I mean, I'm older. I'm wiser. I went through more things. When I left the life, I went through this was a change, a part of my change. And when I went to Ocean Church in California, I met a pastor there. I became very, very friendly with him, and he wanted to baptize me. And I hesitated at first. I wasn't sure what to say. And I was sure what to say. And, um, And then he said, I'll do it on the beach. There'll be tens of thousands of people, all kinds of security, all of this stuff.

And I'm baptized you, and Jesus will forgive you for your sins. And I said, I don't want to do it that way. That looks fake to me, that I'm doing it for tens of thousands of followers of people or this and that. If I do it, I want to do it between me and you and I want to make it private. some small or small thing. I don't want to blow it up. Because people would say I'm doing this for publicity or whatever.

And he said, all right, Sammy, that sounds good to me. And we talked and talked and talked. And it was a September time. I went with him, and we went to a friend of his house. And I became baptized in a pool. And I felt really, really, really, really, good after I was done. And I felt good at different times when I thought about Christ or I thought about God or I thought about changing my life. And I was just mentoring this place. A friend of mine

is a teacher for 20 some odd years. And he's doing Prep National. And it's a thing that helps kids, what religion, with everything, all the way around. So I thought about it and I said, I think I'm behind this FEP National. A friend of mine, Jessica, he's a very religious person, very smart person. And she talked to me about it.

And I started really backing this FEP National very much. and I it's almost like religion you know there's a lot of religion they go into religion schools and things like that and I have things I was dyslexic as a kid and I think if I had this program that these people put together

I might have been different I'm not stupid I'm dyslexic words look screwed up to me numbers look screwed up to me but I know right from wrong I know God exists. I was shot two different times and stabbed once. There was multiple meetings, and I think Patrick knows them, that I was supposed to go and I was supposed to be killed.

I think that God didn't want that to happen. Why he didn't want that to happen, I have no idea right now. And I wanted to straighten my life out. I thought it was good for my kids, my grandchildren, children and my great-grandchild. So I'm moving to get that into schools as much as possible and pulling their lives together. My son, I tell my son, come with me. I go to Mass every week in Arizona.

And if I'm in California, I'll go to the church, the Ocean Church. And I do that and I feel good about things I'm doing right now. Do you think you're going to heaven? I don't know. That's God's decision. I think that I believe what they say in the Bible and the past is that when you are baptized, Jesus forgives you for your sins. Now, if that's true, since that, I don't think I have any major sins.

I know I don't. So I don't see why I wouldn't go. but I don't know. I really don't know. But I don't want to gamble and just do what I feel like doing. And I don't feel like doing anything to hurt anybody or to deceive people or to do certain things. I don't really want to do that anyway. I want my podcast to go.

I'm working on a scripted show. I want to get that to go. And it's crazy. I mean, I wish you could talk to some of those people at a market went. when I talk to them about it, I said, I want everything to come out the truth. My brother-in-law, everything. Everything that I didn't want to come out. I want to leave my life where, what I was, before, in the middle, after, whatever it is.

Because I think I owe that to my daughter, my son, my grandchildren, and people who love me and around me, friends. people that I care about. And if I don't do that, there'll be nobody who care about me. Do you pray daily? Not every day, no, but I pray a lot. I do, I pray a lot. I pray a lot because I do live shows on Mondays and 30s. People call me with their, who's their son, their daughter, and father,

mother in a hospital, dying, this, that. And I pray for them. I do pray for them. So I don't always pray for myself or for something. I can't get the scripted show done just yet. I pray for that. And I pray for things I think are worthy for me to pray for God to listen to. But I think he listens to everything anyway and knows everything.

Well, that's an interesting testimony. And you see, that's the beautiful thing about God, right? faith, seen when I saw you getting baptized, I'm like, I remember asking him about it. And I wonder how he's going through it. You know, I wonder how it's going through. It's got to be, you know, because we all are emotional and logical human beings. You have a very logical side to yourself. I do.

Yeah, where it's like logically, why would he forgive me for the life I've lived? The only way you can make sense of it is emotionally and gross. race and, you know, at the end of the day it's faith, we're not going to know till the day comes. But, yeah, when I saw that, I saw this video. You want to play this video? I think this is the video. Rise up out of these waters with a new nature, a new heart, new mind, and a new life. Father, right now, the old man is going under, and God, the spirit of God, is coming up out of Sammy as he rises out of these waters in newness and life. It was interesting seeing this. It's interesting to me, too, because

without this, take this away. What do I have? Nothing. I might as well be dead. With this gives me life, gives me joy, gives me forgiveness, gives me reasons to want to help people, not hurt people. So I love what I did. I feel good about what I did. And I conduct myself each and every day. I got people attacking me left and right all over the fucking place. And I don't retaliate. I got people saying things about me that would be dead if I was like I was. And they're not.

And I constantly listen to the preachers and people saying, you know, forgive even them. So God wants me to forgive them. Now, I'm not going to go give them roses, but I'm going to forgive them that I'm not going to hurt them. and I'm not going to do anything. And I feel better about it. The other way around, you never know when you're going to get pinch,

when you're going to go to prison, when something's going to happen. So I try to be as positive as a person as I could be and do what I do. And I'm happy with it. I'm good with it. Well, I'm glad to hear that you're going through this. You know, you and I have known each other in almost 10 years. I remember the first phone call I made you.

I called you and I'm like, hey, Sammy, Patrick Bay David here. Who the fuck is Patrick Bay David? And say, I'd like to interview. I'm not doing an interview with nobody. The only one I've sat down with is Diane Sawyer, got 20 million, one of the biggest interviews of all time in 1994. And then that started our relationship when we flew out to Arizona. We sat there and, you know, Mario and all that stuff.

And that's been an interesting journey. But for those watching, if you want to learn more about Prep International, We're going to put the link below where you can go and learn more about this, empowering schools for a brighter future, comprehensive mental health awareness and substance abuse prevention for schools and communities, elevate your school's well-being with your tailored online resources and services to foster and nurture an environment. So we're going to put the link below to learn more about it. And Sammy, as usual, it's always good talking, you, man.

It's my pleasure to talk to you and be with you, and I love this guy. We do have 10-year relationship. and it's very good. Looking forward to future. Thank you so much, Sammy. Take you everybody. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Handmade in Portugal, their craftsmanship is a way of life.

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