PBS News Hour - Full Show - February 5, 2026 - PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

Thursday on the News Hour, the showdown over Department of Homeland Security funding intensifies as Democrats make demands to rein in ICE. Measles spreads further in South Carolina in one of the biggest U.S. outbreaks in decades. How mortgages from before the 2008 financial crisis are haunting homeowners. Sudan's army breaks a yearslong siege of an embattled city and finds overwhelming suffering. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Good evening. I'm William Brangham. I'm the Navas and Jeff Bennett are away. On the news hour tonight, the showdown overfunding for the Department of Homeland Security intensifies as Democrats lay down their list of demands to rein in immigration agents. Measles spreads further in South Carolina in one of the biggest outbreaks the U.S. has seen in decades. And how mortgages from before the 08 financial crisis are coming back to haunt homeowners. I did not find out until the day I was removed from my home that there was even a second mortgage out there. Welcome to the NewsHour. As immigration crackdown spread to new cities across the country, Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of the actions of ICE and customs enforcement agents. That's according to a new PBS News NPR Marist poll.

Our political correspondent Lisa Desjardin joins us with more on how public opinion is shifting and how it may play into the debate on Capitol Hill. Hi, Lisa. Hi. What do Americans think about ICE? What does this poll show us? These numbers are in big, bold print that the majority of Americans very clearly

do not approve of what ICE is doing, and they're doing it by a large and growing margin. Here's what we got in our poll. 65% of Americans told us that they believe ice has gone too far. Now, what's interesting about this is when you look at how that compares to last year in June, At that time, it was 54% of Americans. That is a very big jump. And also, June was an interesting pivot point as well.

That is when the president first sent ICE investigations and roving raids there into Los Angeles. Well, of course, this poll, the 65% number you just saw, happened in the wake of the killing of Alex Preti, the review of that video, and the way the administration reacted to that. Now, something else in this numbers shows is that concern rose interestingly across political parties. So I'm going to take a look at that. There is a classic partisan divide here about the idea that ICE has gone too far. Democrats overwhelmingly think that. But I want to draw your attention to that bottom number. 27% of Republicans now think ICE has gone too far.

That is seven points higher than it was last year. And honestly, William, that is some of the highest disapproval ratings I've ever seen by Republicans for a Trump policy. They generally are in lockstep with this president. Separate from these numbers, it's hard not to see that these. videos and images have been really resonating with people. What else does this poll tell us about how people are feeling? Right. I think it's important to understand the feelings that people are going through and what it's reflecting here politically. Remember that President Trump ran on something in particular, which is the idea of safety. And we're seeing in these numbers real questions about

how Americans feel towards their safety. So let's take a look at some of those numbers. We asked how ICE is making Americans feel about their own safety. You can see that 20% at the top of about 22% feel more safe because of ice. Some in the middle are in either side, more or less safe. But look at that 50% number at the bottom. That is 50% of Americans, William, who feel much less safe because of ice, a law enforcement agency that is supposed to protect people.

Now, I'm also always interested in sort of the human interest stories here. What's pushing this? What groups are responding? And the story here is a very clear one about gender. Let's look at the divide over which people feel much, much less safe because of ice. It's 41% of men, but it's 57% of women. And we know that women are a critical demographic, especially in midterm elections, especially in swing suburban districts. Another question people may be asking is, what does this

mean for President Trump? Well, his approval ratings are about the same, 39%, but there is something significant happening with his disapproval ratings. Let's take a look at that. When you look at that bottom figure, how many people strong strongly disapprove of the job President Trump is doing. It is now at 51%. That is a majority of Americans and also the largest figure we've seen for him. Well, these numbers come out

as the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE is about to run out of money. And that's because there's this ongoing debate on Capitol Hill. The Democrats have put forward some reforms that they want to see pertaining to ICE. What is it that they want? They announced this last night.

Let's look at their list of 10 things that they want. I'll go through them quickly here. Body cameras, no masks for ICE officers. Officers would have to identify themselves. They don't want the paramilitary uniforms and equipment. Limits near schools, churches, and polling places. Democrats want judicial warrants, cooperation with local investigations,

basic standards for detention and use of force, and no racial profiling. But William, already some of these are red lines for Republicans. Let's look at those. Republicans say they can't abide by the no masks or the officers identifying themselves for some. safety of the officers, also have problems with the judicial warrants. And those profiling standards might be difficult because Democrats want to expand that to a wider range of things. So right now,

we're waiting to see what happens with talks, but there's nothing in earnest quite yet. So what are the chances for a deal? Right now, I have to say, I think it's honestly a long shot. My reporting is that staff are talking behind the scenes, but Republicans are frustrated. They want to have direct talks with Democrats. That hasn't happened yet. Democrats, for their part, behind the scenes will tell you they think this is going to be between them and President Trump, but they're running out of time, as you say. Just a week, I think we are headed toward another week of talking about a possible shutdown, probably another short-term funding bill, but as to these ICE concerns that the country

has, right now, a bipartisan deal looks like a long shot. Lisa Desjardin, as always, thank you so much. You're welcome. In the day's other news, the search for Nancy Guthrie, the mother of today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie continued for a fifth day. Authorities believe she's been kidnapped and remains alive, but there are no current suspects. As Stephanie Syre reports, the FBI is offering a $50,000 reward for information that leads to the recovery of Nancy Guthrie and for any information leading to arrests and convictions in this case. Our mom is our heart and our home. Last night,

a heart-wrenching statement and a public plea. We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. Savannah Guthrie and her siblings, Annie and Cameron, addressing their mother's kidnap her After police say 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home in Tucson, Arizona, against her will. We believe Nancy is still out there. We want our home. Today, the Pima County Sheriff said they have not identified any suspects.

The FBI confirmed they're looking into a ransom letter that was sent to news media. As with every lead, we are taking it seriously. We are in communication with the family. and while we advise and recommend from a law enforcement perspective, any action taken on any ransom is ultimately decided by the family. It's by far the most significant update in the case after long days of searching. Nancy Guthrie was last seen Saturday night after dinner with her family. They dropped her off at home in Tucson's Catalina Foothills where she lives by herself. She was reported missing 14 hours later when she didn't show up. to church. Guthrie has limited mobility, a pacemaker, and adding to the urgency, relies on daily

medication. This is an 84-year-old grandma that needs vital medication for her well-being. You still have the time to do the right thing before this becomes a worse, much worse scenario for you. Law enforcement has been speaking to residents and trying to obtain any video footage available from neighbors. It's a high desert, Sonoran Desert, and there are a lot of trees, soaros and native vegetation. So these door cameras really only work around the door of the house. If you're trying to use a door camera to see someplace else, there's things that block that view. Tom Pugh has lived in the Catalina Foothills community for 50 years. People often know their neighbors, and see them on the road.

People walk their dogs. And I don't think the neighborhood is not the least bit dangerous. It does not feel dangerous. We pray for our sister Nancy. As the investigation continues, prayers are echoing at church vigils from Tucson to New York City. President Trump has called Savannah Guthrie, pledging to deploy more federal resources. And while authorities have not found proof of life, they are working on the assumption that Nancy Guthrie may yet be brought home. For the PBS News Hour, I'm Stephanie Tsai in Phoenix.

We love you, Mom. An update on a story we brought you last night. President Trump is rejecting an offer from Russia to temporarily extend caps on strategic nuclear weapons. It comes as the treaty that held them in check, called New Start, expired today. In a social media post, the president called it, quote, a badly negotiated deal, adding, we should have our own nuclear experts work on a new, improved, and modernized treaty. The Kremlin says it regrets the expiration of the last remaining nuclear arms pact between the two nations. And a spokesperson for the UN Secretary General called this a grave moment.

In the first time for more than half a century, we face a world without any binding limits on the strategic. arsenals of both the Russian Federation and the United States. President Trump has indicated he wants to involve China in any new potential treaty, an idea that Beijing has resisted. Meantime, during talks today in Abu Dhabi, the U.S. and Russia agreed to restart high-level military contacts. Those communications were suspended in 2021 as tensions rose ahead of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. In a statement, U.S. European Commandments,

said the restarted channel, quote, provides a means for increased transparency and de-escalation. The agreement came as Ukraine and Russia wrapped up a second day of U.S. brokered talks, which American envoy Steve Whitkoff described as constructive. Speaking in Kiev today, alongside the Polish Prime Minister, Ukraine's president said the parties also agreed to speak again in the near future. It is important that the process is important that the process is. is ongoing. We would like faster results, but if the next meeting is planned, it means there is a chance to continue the dialogue, which, of course, we very much hope will lead to the end

of the war. Also today, 150 Ukrainian soldiers, along with seven civilians, were returned home as part of a prisoner exchange. Ukraine says many of them had been held since 2022. An equal number of Russians were also released. Russian Defense Ministry footage showed soldiers boarding a bus wrapped in Russian flags. The Trump administration is stripping job protections from as many as 50,000 federal employees. A final rule published today by the Office of Personnel Management makes it easier for the president to discipline or remove those workers.

Before, a president could only wield such powers over roughly 4,000 political appointees. Agency head Scott Cooper said the new policy advances President Trump's agenda. adding, quote, those entrusted with shaping and executing policy must be accountable for results. The fallout from the latest release of files related to Jeffrey Epstein is spreading both here and overseas. I am sorry. Sorry for what was done to you. Sorry that so many people with power failed you. Sorry for having believed Mandelson's lies and appointed him.

Britain's Prime Minister Kier Starmar apologized today for appointing Peter Mandelson to be his ambassador to the U.S. Files later showed Mandelson was closer to Epstein than previously thought. The World Economic Forum is investigating its CEO, Borga Brenda, over his alleged ties to Epstein. Brenda insists he was completely unaware

of Epstein's criminal activities. And in the U.S., Brad Karp is stepping down as chairman of the influential law firm Paul Weiss due to his appearance in the Epstein documents, though he'll stay on with the firm. The Nigerian government says it's launching a new military operation against Islamic militants after more than 160 people were killed during an attack earlier this week. Local officials say it happened in two Muslim-majority villages in Quara state and that the victims were reportedly killed for resisting extremist ideology. No group has claimed responsibility, but officials suspect various Islamic military groups.

Separately, in Nigeria's Kaduna state, officials say all 183 Christians abducted from three different churches last month have now been released. On Wall Street today, stocks struggled amid continued weakness in tech shares. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell nearly 600 points. The NASDAQ dropped around 360 points on the day. The S&P 500. ended lower for a sixth time in seven sessions. And Vice President J.D. Vance told U.S. Olympic athletes in Milan today that the games are one of the few things that unites the entire country. The whole country, Democrat, Republican, Independent, we're all rooting for you,

and we're cheering for you, and we know you're going to make us proud. So thank you all and hope you guys have fun. Vance and the second family also cheered on the U.S. women's hockey team in an opening round game again. against the Czech Republic, the U.S. women one-handily five to one. Still to come on the news hour, Sudan's army breaks a years-long siege of an embattled city and finds overwhelming suffering. We examine so-called zombie mortgages, loans that laid dormant for years, but are now coming back to life.

And an organization offers recovery and work skills to Indian women who are forced into sex work. This is the PBS News Hour from the David M. Rubenstein studio at WETA in Washington, headquarters of PBS News. Measles continues to spread in the U.S. with South Carolina currently experiencing the biggest outbreak it's seen in decades. In that state, there are 876 confirmed cases of the highly contagious virus, which is preventable with a vaccine. This current surge may be slowing. New cases aren't rising as fast, and vaccinated. nations have picked up. But doctors warned there are still serious risks for vulnerable populations, including children and pregnant women. For more, we are joined again by Caitlin Jedalina. She writes the excellent newsletter called Your Local Epidemiologist. Kately, thanks so much for being

here. How serious is this outbreak in South Carolina? I mean, how would you compare it to past outbreaks? And how did it get this bad this quickly? Yeah, this outbreak in South Carolina, is bad and it is historically large. Like you said, 876 cases. And this is larger than any other recent landmark U.S. outbreak. In 2025, the West Texas outbreak ended at 762 cases. In New York City, the 2019 outbreak had 649 cases. So this is one of the largest outbreaks in decades and certainly the largest since the U.S. achieved measles elimination in 2000. This is also concerning because of the timing. Measles is usually quieter in January and February. It usually really picks up in the spring. And the reason this is happening is the core driver is susceptibility. We have pockets, and these

pockets are getting larger and larger of low vaccination rates. And given that measles is the most, contagious virus in the world, it will find those pockets. It's like a kindling, and once it gets caught, it can spread like wildfire. And again, can you remind us why we really worry about measles and why we want to keep it at bay? Well, measles is preventable. We have a highly effective and very safe vaccine, far safer than the virus itself. And it does impact children, especially those younger that don't have a really strong immune system and can't protect themselves, right? Kids under the age of 12 months are too young to get the vaccine. Immuncompromise also don't hit an immune response with the vaccine.

And even if you do get infected, one thing that measles can do is it can cause hearing loss, it can cause death. but it can also wipe out your immune system memory. And so we actually end up seeing death later on from like flu or other viruses because your immune system memory gets wiped out from measles. It's a nasty virus. There are some signs that vaccination rates in South Carolina have been going up. And that's obviously great news. How long, if someone goes and gets a shot today,

how long does it take for the body to respond and develop an immune response and really give you protection? Yeah, so typically, like the full protection takes about two weeks, but if you're exposed to measles and you have not been vaccinated, you can still get protection and a few days after your exposure. And this really helps not necessarily to avoid infection, but it'll help avoid you going to the hospital and dying. And so even if you're exposed, even if you haven't been vaccinated before, it certainly isn't too late. You wrote something recently that caught my eye. You were suggesting in some way that our success in public health over the decades, the last hundred or so years, through all sorts of means of modern medicine and sanitation,

but especially vaccines, that some people have somewhat forgotten the bad old days of when viruses and bacteria really ran rampant. Do you think that that is what's happening here? I think we find ourselves at the intersection of several forces colliding, honestly. But yeah, collective amnesia, general amnesia is certainly at play. Vaccines are a victim of their own success. I'm a mom. I have a five and six-year-old.

I've never had a girlfriend with their kids get measles. I've never seen polio. A lot of my physician friends have never had to treat it. And so I think rightfully so a lot of people have questions and concerns. and confusion why we vaccinate in the first place. And unfortunately, that means our vaccination rates are decreasing slowly over time and also colliding, like I said, with other forces, right? Global instability, a radically changed online information ecosystem,

bad actors exploiting these spaces, and a lot of deepening mistrust in institutions. You mentioned before that this is one of the ones, that this is one of the worst outbreaks since we had the official designation as being a measles-free nation. Many people believe that we are about to lose that designation again, according to the WHO. What does that matter on a practical basis? Does it actually mean anything? Not really to the general public. What this basically is is a sign that a national warning light, that we are moving backwards for children's health.

The core question, like you said, we're trying to answer is, is measles endemic again, right? Is it spreading from pocket to pocket rather than sporadic or random outbreaks? And like you said, all signs are pointing that we are in the United States likely going to lose our elimination status, probably in April. But this also isn't just a U.S. story. A lot of our neighbors on our country, friends of other countries, right? Our neighbors in Canada and Mexico are also having really big outbreaks. Our friends over in Europe, six countries just lost their measles elimination status, including the U.K. and Spain.

So this is a global phenomenon. We certainly are also feeling it here in the United States. Caitlin Gettelina, always great to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thank you for having me. Today, a UN-backed watchgrob group that tracks hunger warned that famine is spreading to more parts of Darfur in western Sudan. Sudan is already enduring the largest humanitarian crisis in the world. And today, a paramilitary rebel group, the rapid support forces, struck a military hospital reportedly killing at least 22 people.

The UN says the war between the RSF and Sudan's army has driven 14 million people from their home, and killed an estimated 40,000. Nick Schifrin and producer Ziba Varsi spoke to civilians trapped in the epicenter of this nearly three-year-old civil war. With guns in the air, the Sudanese military declared a city of 100,000 finally free.

For two years, Kadugli had been strangled by the paramilitary rebel group, Rapid Support Forces. This week, the streets were strewn with supporters supporters of Sudan's army chief, who declared them liberated. Congratulations to the people of Kudugli on the liberation of the city. And congratulations to our people in Kodukli on the arrival of the armed forces. The armed forces will reach every place in Sudan. But this moment follows months of relentless violence.

Sudan's armed forces pushed deeper into RSF-held cities. They broke the RSF siege, but revealed overwhelming suffering. In a refugee camp outside Kodugli, survivors living in tents after fleeing their homes share stories of hunger and horror. Ajab Bahra Elden is one of many here suffering overwhelming grief. One of my children died on the road, and when I got here, my twins died together. Three of my children have died. Now I have no small child to carry in my arms.

Mothers who've lost children to hunger and entire families to drone attacks. My brother and nephew and son were killed when we left. We had nothing for the children. I have four children who died, three girls and a boy. They all died of hunger. A local aid worker in Dilling, a city held by the RSF since the war began in 2023, sent us this message. There is a famine.

Family is forced to eat three leaves and grass to survive. There is death amongst the families. One case is death of five children from one family due to poisoning after eating grass. Many families have lost members due to shelling and due to attacked by drone. After the RSF carried out brutal killings in Darfur's El Fosher late last year and seized control of the entire Darfur region, the focus of the war shift. shifted east to Sudan's central, oil-rich, Cordifan region. In South Cordifan, the Army has retaken the state's capital and richest cities.

And in North Cordifan, the RSF has intensified drone strikes, expanding its reach, and attacking the city of Al-Obeid. As the SAF and RSF battle for control, civilians lose everything. This house was hit last month, killing nine members of the same family, including seven children. children. When we came, we found the children under the rubble, under the iron, under the beds. Only God knows the state of the children. Bodies.

They used to be living people, and they became dead bodies. This is what happened. In Al-Obeid, satellite imagery from the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab shows nearly 100 new burial mounds in just two weeks between January 2nd and January 14. Sounds of the war everywhere. We spoke to this aid worker in South Kordaughan who asked us to blur his identity. He's trying to help the displaced, who are receiving little to no help. Civilians are suffering a lot without any support from any humanitarian actors.

So this is the suffering of the civilians here since the eruption of this conflict. It erupted in April 20203 as a power struggle. became a brutal civil war. Sudanese cities have become battlegrounds. Both sides are accused of war crimes. But in Darfur in Western Sudan, the RSF is accused of genocide. The rebels descend from the government-backed Janjaweed militias that in the 2000s brutally crushed an uprising and killed hundreds of thousands of non-Arabs. Then, too, the U.S. labeled their actions genocide. Today's report by the umbrella organization that declares famine says famine has spread in North Darfur,

and more than half of all children under five suffer acute malnutrition. And it reports that in court-ofan, people are now more likely to die due to hunger. And to look at the effect this civil war has had on the people as well as next steps. We turn to Jan Egeland, Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council, who just returned from Sudan. Yon Naglund, thanks very much. Welcome back to the news hour. So what did you see when you were there? What I saw confirmed the following. In South Kodofan, we have the worst war and the worst hunger catastrophe within Sudan, which is, in turn, the largest humanitarian crisis on earth today. I met with countless women, children, because it's really women and children, fleeing from besieged.

cities, including Cadugli, the biggest city, and they're fleeing from horrific violence, but also from a famine declared inside there, because we cannot get into this besieged city with our food. And what are some of the stories that they shared with you? Well, I met with several of these who are young, single mothers now, because their story was that in the morning, our husbands went to. to search for food. Then a drone came and bombed and torched our home. So we fled, one with a nursing baby on her arm,

and four other kids below the age of nine. They walked for two, three days to the camp where we and the Norwegian Refugee Council give them food and emergency aid. and they haven't heard from their husbands and fathers. And now we have the biggest gap anywhere in the world between urgent needs and available aid where two few organizations on the ground and were overstretched and underfunded.

As we saw in the story that preceded our conversation, General Burhan, the head of the Sudanese armed forces, described where you just went as liberated. Is that how the people who, you spoke to, see it? It was, I mean, the day after I left, we heard that there had been a breakthrough of a military colon into Cadougli, the biggest town that has been besieged by the armed actors, but it hasn't meant a lot of aid at all.

The hunger catastrophe continues. We have three more months to avoid an epic biblical famine before the rainy season comes. and the roads will be impossible in this part of Sudan. So we have to search aid, and that's my message to the donor nations, including the United States, come to the relief of these mothers and children. There are hundreds of thousands. They're starving and are victims of a cruel conflict. We can help them, but we have little time.

You have criticized donor nations, including the United States, have neglecting Sudan. Just this week, the U.S. held an event here in Washington that raised what the U.S. State Department said was $1.5 billion in new pledges. And in a statement, the State Department said this. While we remain proud of America's unmatched generosity, President Trump has made it clear that other nations must also shoulder a greater share of the burden for this life-saving work. Do you see that happening? I heard that some of the Gulf countries are pledging. In addition to the United States, 200 million, 500 million from United Arab Emirates, several European countries have pledged.

We haven't seen much of that on the ground yet, by the way. Not so. We're still underfunded, so the money needs to come now, so we can purchase, we can get, procure all of the food. We can start the logistic chains. These are remote areas in a horrific war, so I hope for the generosity of North America. of Europe and the Gulf countries in particular, it must happen soon.

And bringing us back to where we started, the umbrella organization that declares famine, releasing their report, saying that famine is spreading in parts of Sudan. Bottom line, what can be done in order to save more people's lives? Two things. Put pressure on the armed actors so that they stop this senseless conflict. We have a ceasefire and we have used. humanitarian access to all that are need. Secondly, search the aid, really. I mean, in South Kodafan, it's the southern part of Sudan. U.S. organizations have been there for a generation. The U.S. has been an aid giver for a generation there. There are five international non-governmental

organizations. That's it from the international community. It's really the Sudanese frontline volunteers that are keeping people alive pretty much alone. We need to search much more aid fast before we see this relentless countdown to famine, result in the famine. It's not too late. John Egelen, Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council. Thank you very much. Thank you. They are called zombie mortgages, debts that homeowners thought were forgiven or satisfied,

long ago, only to learn that they still exist and that they could cost them their homes. Economics correspondent Paul Solman and producer Diane Lincoln Estes have our look at these back from the dead debts. This story is a partnership with Retro Report, which is a documentary news group that delves back into major events of the past to understand their relevance today. Single dad Terence Hardin bought this home in Bowie, Maryland 20 years ago. Four bedroom, house, single-fellow. family, nice yard, very friendly neighbors. Hardin took out a $316,000 mortgage for the purchase, a $35,000 second mortgage soon after.

So I had a mortgage and a second mortgage after owning the property for a year. But then the housing bubble burst. Home prices plunged. Harden, like millions of Americans, owed more than his house was worth. So he was vastly relieved to get a loan modification through a government program. The payment is very much reasonable. There is no second mortgage, and I'm able to breathe. For the next eight years, Hardin paid his mortgage.

By September, 2023, he had built almost $200,000 in equity. Then his neighbor called. There was some service that was taking stuff out of my home in trash bags and plastic bags and putting it on the lawn. At which point, I, like, raced home from work in order to try to have. find out what was going on. I was informed by the sheriff's department that I had four hours to collect my belongings. Hardin was being evicted from his home. Furniture, dishes, medications, foods, toys, pictures, just all shoved in a black bag and strewn across the front yard. Daughter Olivia was then 14. How did you react?

I just saw all of my belongings on the front lawn in black bags. I was just so, I was, I was just in shock. So what happened? Kind of like a zombie and a horror film. That second mortgage Hardin believed to have been modified and rolled in with his first all those years ago had risen from the dead. A zombie mortgage is a mortgage that the borrower's thought

was dead because of inactivity by the lender. for so many years. And then out of the blue recently is risen from the dead, so to speak, to claim its pound of flesh. Foreclosure attorney Andy Engel explains that second mortgages were worth so little in the wake of the housing collapse that lenders simply didn't bother to collect on them. However, they did bundle these mortgages up and sell them on the secondary market, often for pennies on the dollar. The judge in New York used to talk about these loans are passed around like a whiskey bottle at a frat party. Homeowner advocate Beth Jacobson.

That's what these second mortgages. They would be packaged and repackaged and repackaged and repackaged and sold. And the people who bought those loans then just sat and waited. And they were waiting for market values to come back on the real estate to make those mortgages actually have value again. Post-COVID-19 pandemic, that's just what happened. Across the country as property values soared. And all of a sudden, those.

dead mortgages that had no value at all now have value and the owners of those mortgages are filing foreclosure cases. Homeowner Terence Hardin says he was blindsided. I got nothing from these people. I've got nothing from them. I did not find out until the day I was removed from my home that there was even a second mortgage out there. It's not bad enough that this zombie second is coming back to collect on a mortgage that you may have taken out 20 years ago and forgot about, they're adding interest every single day, even though they didn't send mortgage statements out. According to Bloomberg News, more than 600,000 second mortgages issued before the financial

crisis could come back to life. Jerry and Sharon Lamerno took out a $30,000 second mortgage on their Madison, Ohio home back in 2006. They thought it was discharged in bank. bankruptcy a few years later. For over 15 years, we had just assumed that the debt had been wiped away. Then in October 2024, Jerry got a phone call. Jerome, good morning. It's Isaac with SMS Financial. And he says, well, we have an outstanding debt of roughly $75, $80,000 with interest that hasn't been paid on this since roughly 2008, 2009. And we need to know what you're willing to pay in order to bring your account current.

Then came the calls from house hunters looking for a bargain. This guy says, hi, I'm so-and-so. He goes, I was wondering if you're interested in selling your house. And I said, no, why would I want to sell my house? And he goes, well, because there's a lien on it. And you're in foreclosure. And I was stunned. Okay, so this is the document.

Engel, the LeMerno's lawyer, says there's no proof SMS Financial actually owns the second mortgage in question. And there's a further issue of whether SMS Financial can charge interest during a time period when it did not issue monthly statements. And that is a federal law requirement. Neither SMS Financial nor their lawyers responded to requests for interviews, but in public notices, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau warned that federal laws generally required debt collectors to provide homeowners with periodic statements. Moreover, it said, it's illegal for debt collectors to sue. to collect debts past the statute of limitations. The Bureau had been investigating zombie debt collectors, but its work was essentially shut down

last February by the Trump administration. We're trying to stand up for these consumers since nobody else is. Lawyer Christy Kelly has filed numerous individual and class action lawsuits against zombie mortgage collectors. For most of the loans that I see, they are being assessed retroactive interest for every single month for 10, 15 years for times where they did not receive statements or were explicitly told or provided communications stating that interest wouldn't be charged for that time frame. In one class action settlement, zombie debt collector Dyke O'Neill canceled the retroactive

interest it had charged Kelly's client. We learned through discovery that his loan was purchased for approximately 87 cents. And prior to coming to me, he was told he had to pay $170,000. thousand dollars or they were going to foreclose on his loan. Now a few states have passed laws to crack down on deceptive practices, including Virginia, where Kelly's based. We were able to pass legislation that required these zombie second mortgage holders to certify in an affidavit before you take someone's home for all time periods where you're assessing interests that statements were sent. This is the Passive Income Attorney Podcast. But for debt collectors, these zombie loans are great

investment opportunities. One man's toxic assets or another man's treasure. James Mufuccio co-founded Aspen funds, which buys second mortgages, including Terrence Hardens. We like to see the homeowner's making the payment on the first. So now we know we've got a property that somebody's taken care of, for the most part. They're living in it. And they're paying down the first mortgage. So our position's actually getting stronger as they continue to pay down that first mortgage. Mofuccio has described as investment. strategy on multiple podcasts, but didn't respond to our interview requests. If we buy a million dollars worth of these non-performing second mortgages, we are going to

receive back to $2.2.2 to $2.5 million. It's just been consistently good for us. Good for them, not so good for the homeowner. We can reach out to the borrower. Usually they're in denial, and they'll say, we don't really owe that. We thought that got charged out, whatever, whatever. And so we'll start the foreclosure process. And it's really just an incentive tool. because we do not like to foreclose on people. And of course, people don't like to be foreclosed on. You get a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. That fear is what motivates people to take actions.

Pay off the loan, do anything to avoid this. I personally believe the buyers of these debts are banking on that drastic reaction of initial fear and trying to avoid losing the house. Unfortunately for Terrence and Olivia Hardin, Their home was sold in foreclosure before they knew what was happening. And the way Maryland works is that if you as the homeowner don't file a motion in the court, you never see the light of a day of a court. It was just pushed through.

Mofuccio's investment fund sold the Hardin's home to itself, paid the balance on the first mortgage, then resold the home with a likely profit of over a hundred grand. All of the equity that I built in my house was stolen right out from under us. And there's nothing I can do about that at this point. Terence Harden now rents an apartment not far from his old house so his daughter Olivia can go to the same school. The home was going to be a source of monies for tuition fees. and that is gone. It's no longer I can rely on that. So it's almost like starting all over again.

I pray every single day that this foreclosure will go away and that Sharon and I will be able to stay in this house. The Lamernos are fighting debt collector SMS financial in court. We're really not in a position to be able to pay $75,000, $80,000 on a $30,000 second mortgage from 2006. that hasn't been enforced for over 15 years. And as of January, they began mediation negotiations with SMS financial. For the PBS News Hour, Paul Salman. In India, as many as 3 million women are believed to be sex workers.

They're often pushed into the trade because of extreme poverty or coercion. We bring you the story tonight of one organization that's helped more than 32,000 of these women find a pathway out. While this group has earned international awards and philanthropic support, it has also raised complicated questions about how best to help these women, especially those who aren't asking to be rescued. Fred de Sam Lazaro has our story. It's part of his series, Agents for Change. The games dancing and loud music mean it's Friday night at Pudgewallah

and the staff are taking a moment for themselves. Most of the women here share a deep bond over their complex, painful histories, beginning with the founder. She stands just four foot six inches tall, but hers is a commanding presence. I was a high achiever and, you know, every parent thought this is the model child. That was until age 15 when she was gang raped by eight men. Sonita Krishnan says far more painful than the physical trauma was the social indifference or innuendo that she endured.

I was lose. I was fallen. They were blaming you. Everybody, everybody. And I had lose morals. We want a victim to behave in a particular way. We want her to feel ashamed, guilty. You know, I chose not to.

Instead, she says the ordeal helped her focus as an aspiring social worker on the fighting against what she calls an age-old culture of misogyny, manifest in sexual assaults and a thriving prostitution industry. This is Prasuala's base camp. Thirty years ago, she founded the organization called Prajwala, or Eternal Flame, to shelter women removed in police raids from brothels and to police the police, ensuring that raids are actually conducted, and that the women, widely marginalized in India, are treated with respect. Since then, thousands have come through Prajwalha's various programs.

As I talked to groups of survivors around the campus, almost everyone's story began with dire poverty that left them vulnerable to an extensive trafficking mafia. My husband's sister brought me to Hyderabad and sold me into the red light area. Lakshmi Priya fell victim into a scam marriage scheme. They took my daughter away from me, and for the sake of her safety, I used to do whatever they forced me to do. If I didn't, they would beat me very harshly. My father died in a road accident, and I was left with a mother and a small brother.

Nasea became her family's breadwinner as a teenager and was convinced by a trafficker that there was better paid work in Hyderabad. It turned out to be in the sex trade. Sometimes I used to attend 20 customers per day. They would make us drink and smoke. And if we didn't do the work, they would beat us very harshly. I wanted to die instead of living this kind of life. Syraj was promised training in a tailoring job 1,000 miles from her home in the capital

Delhi. She found herself in a brothel. And she found a razor blade. After I cut my hand, a lot of blood came out, and I became unconscious. I don't know what happened later. She was picked up hours later by police and eventually placed in this shelter. Today she's trained and employed by Pajwala as a bookbinder, earning a decent wage. This is a product that we are doing.

Bookbinding is one of several training initiatives that double up as revenue-generating businesses. surviving survivors and skills ranging from tailoring to welding to carpentry and paying them and their teacher salaries. When they go for construction sites, everybody like stands back, oh my God, women welders, we have never seen them. So, you know, coming from a perception which is indoctrinated into them in the brothel, that you go out, everybody is going to throw you out, nobody is going to accept you.

Suddenly when you get that sense of respect. But the journey to achieving the success is arduous. It can take years to overcome trauma and learn new skills, and not everyone agrees it's the right approach to dealing with the sex industry. Some human rights advocates and people who work in the sex industry take issue with what they call the raid and rescue approach that brings women to Prajjwala shelters. Most of these women, they say, are not actually trafficked and go into the business voluntarily, be it because their poverty and illiteracy give them few other options.

Nonetheless, they say these women are in the business voluntarily and don't want to be rescued. Why is someone doing domestic work, right? Why is someone doing factory work? It's not necessarily their number one choice of what they wanted to do. It's within the constraints of their education and their economic status. Thubutti Ramachandran is an anthropologist at the University of California, Irvine. So why are we exceptionalizing the sex industry is a question worth asking, right? And then whose morality is shaping that.

Prostitution is technically a legal profession in India, but the law criminalizes related activities like soliciting or operating a brothel. Brothal raids are the most common law enforcement tactic, removing women who are automatically presumed to be trafficking victims and placing them in. in protective shelters for rehabilitation, to which they're entitled by law. Ramachandran says the approach has been heavily influenced by U.S. policy in recent decades. With the Bush administration in the early 2000s, where there was a lot of importance given to anti-trafficking and there was money associated with it.

The result, she and others say, is a patchwork of shoddy enforcement, many substandard shelters, and a confiscation of these women's most viable way to earn a living. There's a lot of emphasis on training and reforming these women, right? But a lot of them say we don't have time for that. We can't afford to be learning. We have books. Sunita Krishman says the solution is to improve the quality of shelters and rehab programs. Rajwala receives high marks for its vocational training, but it, too, has faced protests

from women seeking to leave its fortified shelters, including escape attempts and at least one woman who died from suicide. released from a shelter often involves tedious procedures through a notoriously slow court system. And rehabilitation is no walk in the park, says Krishnan. From trauma care to support in medical care, de-addiction, detoxification, all this takes time. So it's not surprising, she says, that women want to escape from shelters, and up to 15% of them do return to sex work.

A large number of them have gone back because of other compulsions, like a Stockholm syndrome or a trauma bond that they have developed with an abuser. When it comes to sex work, she calls herself steadfastly abolitionist. Sex work in your mind cannot be a profession like most other professions. I don't believe so. I believe it is the oldest form of patriarchal, you know, legislative. of legitimization of commodifying a woman's body as a sexual object. Education is key to bringing fundamental change to give young people options,

Krishna says. She took me to a mainstreaming program, Prajwalah runs in distressed neighborhoods, to help children who are not in school through tutoring or school readiness programs. This, it is hoped, would mean a more straightforward vocational journey for the next generation generation than that of the women at Prajwalha shelters and their children. L'LB.1B.1st here, D'EGree. Lakshmi Priya is reunited with her daughter, who's now in her first year of law school. For the PBS News Hour, I'm Fred DeSam Lazaro in Hyderabad, India.

Online right now, seven things to know about the Olympic Winter Games. That's on our Instagram page. And that is the News Hour for tonight. I'm William Brangham. on behalf of everyone at the NewsHour, thank you so much for joining us.