PBS News Hour - Full Show - July 10, 2025 – PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Thursday on the News Hour, a look at why previous efforts to fund a flood warning system in Texas failed and if last week's deadly flooding will change that. The struggle to get measles under control as cases surge to their highest levels in 30 years. Plus, a former federal prosecutor who led cases against the Jan. 6 rioters speaks out about the shifting priorities of the Justice Department. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders

Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz. Jeff Bennett is away. On the news hour tonight. A look at why previous efforts to fund a warning system for floods in Texas failed, and if last week's deadly flooding will change that. Measles cases surged to their highest levels in more than 30 years, the struggle to get the disease under control. And a former federal prosecutor who led cases against the January 6th, rioters speaks out about the shifting priorities at the U.S. Justice Department. The perception right now is that any time you do anything against the president or an ally of the president that you will be subject to some sort of scrutiny or investigations, that's a huge problem. Welcome to the news hour. The search for bodies continued in south central Texas today, almost a week after torrential rains triggered deadly flash floods. 121 people have been confirmed dead. At least 161 remain missing.

Now, officials are facing scrutiny about whether they gave sufficient notice about the rising waters. The National Weather Service did issue several watches and warnings starting just before midnight on July 3rd. At 1.14 a.m. on July 4th, it pushed its first alert to cell phones in the area, warning of, quote, dangerous and life-threatening flash floods. Several more followed as the river surged over 30 feet in a matter of hours. In the meantime, local officials appeared unaware of the unfolding catastrophe until later in the morning. And there are now reports that Kerr County officials waited some 90 minutes to send phone alerts on a private system known as Code Red after a firefighter request.

requested it. For a closer look, we're joined now by Nina Satija, an investigative reporter with the Houston Chronicle. Nina, welcome to the NewsHour. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. So your reporting found that nearly a decade before this July 4th flooding, there were local officials in Kerr County pushing to buy a new early flood warning system. Tell us why they were pushing for that and where those efforts went. So Kerr County started talking about this about a year after there were devastating floods in Wimberley. That's another town in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. They had very devastating floods in 2015, killed more than a dozen people. Similar kind of situation that we're hearing about right now. Water rose, I think,

40 feet in just one hour during that flood. And so the year after Kerr County said, hey, we've got a similar problem here. We're also in the hill country called Flash Flood Alley. What can we do? And what they realized was that the system they had in place was pretty old, pretty outdated. You really have to go and look online as an emergency management official to see what water levels were. There were only six gauges on the Guadalupe River in Kerr County, which is not very many. And there were, you know, different low water crossings, low level roads and bridges that were monitored by two different agencies. So they really wanted to update all of that. And that was their goal as they talked about having a new flood warning system. So what exactly were they

asking for from state officials? And what was the response? Well, they wanted help paying a million dollars for this new system. And so what they did is they went to state officials and they said, hey, we know there's some federal disaster relief money, first from the floods in 2015, next from Hurricane Harvey. Can we get a piece of that? Because we can't fund this million dollar system on our own. And essentially, they were told no a couple of times. Then they went to the state for some state funding and they were told, we can give you a zero percent interest loan. We can pay a small portion of it, but that's about it. So they really weren't able to get very far. in requesting state funding for help on this project. So we should note now, after these last week's Dudley floods, that Texas lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, has said in an interview earlier this week on Monday that lives could have been saved, had there been a more robust warning system in place,

and he also said that the state will now pay for it. Take a listen. We had sirens along this area, up and down, the same type of sirens that they have in Israel when there's an attack coming, that would have blown very loudly. it's possible that that would have saved some of these lives. And so if the city can't afford it, then the state will step up.

And we need to have these in place by the next summer. Nina, there is a special legislative session that's coming up later this month in Texas. Do you see Texas lawmakers making a different decision now than they did the many times before Kerr County officials wanted to put this system into place and ask for that funding? I think it's very possible they will. We've never seen a disaster like this happened so close to a legislative session. Usually the session only meets six months out of every two years. On the other hand, I think the big question is, what is it? What is the system they're going to pay for? Is it just sirens? You know, the experts we've talked to say it's not just about the sirens blaring. It's about having enough gauges in the river, having enough monitoring stations to inform those sirens to say, this is when you really need to get out. This is how high the water is going to get. So it's a pretty sophisticated system that you really need. the question is how much are state officials willing to pay? I would also note that local officials in Kerr County did not want sirens. They actually decided as part of their plan they were trying to

get funding for that they didn't want to include sirens. So I think a lot of questions, you know, a lot of unanswered questions about what exactly the state will pay for, what local communities are going to ask, and how much money the state decides they're willing to, you know, front for all of this. It's going to be not just a million dollars for Kerr County, but I think you could get into much higher numbers when you're talking about other communities and having the best system you possibly can. It is worth noting as well that Texas leads the nation when it comes to flood deaths, that Wimberley flooding, you mentioned some 13 people were killed in that, 89 killed after Hurricane Harvey. There's just a few of the deadly floods that you've seen in the last few years in Texas.

In your conversations with officials who were involved in those early asks and people today, what is it that's most needed on the ground? Is there a consensus around that? That's a really good question. I think more. data is key. I think having more of these high-tech monitors that can transmit data in real time and also in a way that the public can understand, that's a huge, huge improvement. And there are places in Texas that have been able to implement that. But I also think that it really is time to have a conversation about should we be in these areas? Should we be in these floodways and these floodplains? Do we need to be continuing to develop there? I think a lot of experts are

saying that's where we need to go. We need to stop developing in some of these extremely flood-prone areas. And that's a tough conversation to have. Nina Satija, investigative reporter with the Houston Chronicle. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your time. Thank you. We start the day's other headlines with the legal battle over birthright citizenship. A federal judge today blocked the Trump administration from enforcing an executive order aimed at ending the longstanding law. New Hampshire judge Joseph LaPlante issued a preliminary injunction and certified a class action lawsuit saying his actions applied to babies nationwide. That includes the children of undocumented parents and those born to people in the U.S. on student visas.

The class action designation was seen as the only way to impose such a far-reaching measure after the Supreme Court's ruling last. month that limited nationwide injunctions. The judge gave the administration seven days to appeal. In Ukraine, at least two people have died in an overnight Russian missile and drone attack lasting nearly 10 hours. Firefighters work to put out several new flames across Ukraine's capital city of Kiev. At least 22 people were wounded and thousands spent the night sheltering an underground metro station. It comes a day after Russia launched its largest barrage of the war so far.

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the U.S. and Russia have exchanged new ideas for ceasefire talks after meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov. But speaking to reporters at a foreign minister's meeting in Malaysia, he also described the Trump administration's frustration at the lack of progress towards a deal.

It was a frank conversation. It was an important one. Look, the president's been pretty clear. He's disappointed and frustrated that there's not been more flexibility on the Russian side to bring about an end to this conflict. We hope that can change. And we're going to continue to stay involved where we see opportunities to make a difference. Separately, Ukraine's European allies agreed to set up a headquarters in Paris

to help deploy troops to maintain the peace after the war ends there. The announcement came at a meeting in Rome of the so-called coalition of the willing which was attended for the first time by a U.S. representative, Keith Kellogg. European officials reached a deal with Israel today to allow more food and fuel into Gaza. The EU's top diplomat said the agreement could result in more crossings open, aid and food trucks entering Gaza, repair of vital infrastructure and protection of aid workers. It comes as local hospitals and aid workers say Israeli airstrikes killed at least 36 Palestinians overnight. That included 15 people waiting outside a medical clinic, many of them children.

Israel says it was targeting a militant when it struck near the facility. The Secret Service has reportedly suspended six agents over failures related to the attempted assassination of Donald Trump at a rally in Pennsylvania last July. The agency's deputy director Matt Quinn told CBS News that the suspensions range from 10 to 42 days with no pay or benefits during that time. The shooting exposed serious security failures after a gunman was able to access a nearby rooftop to fire at then-president Trump. He was left with a bloody ear, a firefighter attending the rally died. Sunday marks the one-year anniversary of that attack. Family members of those lost in January's mid-air collision in Washington, D.C. are criticizing the Army's handling of the disaster. In an open letter to Army Secretary, Dan Driscoll, 168 love.

ones say the Army's actions show a, quote, willingness to circumvent official processes and resist oversight when deflecting scrutiny, while persistently refusing to accept responsibility. They're calling for an independent investigation into the crash. 67 people were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter collided with an American Airlines jet as it approached Reagan National Airport. President Trump is tapping Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy to serve as interim leader of NASA. His selection comes after Trump withdrew his initial nominee, Jared Isaacman, back in May. The billionaire private astronaut is a close associate of Elon Musk, and his selection was seen as a potential boost to Musk's rocket company, SpaceX. Trump's decision to drop Isaacman

helped fuel his public split with Musk. Duffy will hold onto his position as transportation secretary, even as he takes up his NASA duties. In Los Angeles, 31 construction work. workers are safe and accounted for after a huge wastewater tunnel partially collapsed as they were working underground. Tonight, we were lucky. Rescuers feared the worst when they rushed to the scene late last night, but the entire crew was hoisted above ground with no major injuries reported. They've been operating a boring machine, some 400 feet below ground, and six miles away

from this enormous shaft here is the tunnel's only access point. The $700 million project has been suspended until authorities can figure out what caused the collapse. And there's been a major shake-up in the cereal aisle. WK. Kellogg, which makes frosted flakes and other morning staples, is being bought out by the Italian company behind Nutella in a deal valued at more than $3 billion. The Kellogg's brand traces its roots back to its founding in Michigan more than a century ago, but sales of its iconic cereals have struggled recently. as consumers turn to protein bars and other breakfast options. The deal still needs approval from Kellogg's shareholders. On Wall Street today, stocks close higher as traders put their tariff concerns to the side.

The Dow Jones Industrial average climbed nearly 200 points on the day. The NASDAQ added nearly 20 points to close at a new all-time high. The S&P 500 also ended in record territory. And the world's first Birken handbag sold for more than $10 million today, at an auction in Paris. The winning price, when counting in fees, drew gasped and applause from the crowd. The bag itself was the prototype for what later became fashions must have accessory. It was named after the late actor and fashion icon Jane Burkin

and traces its origins to a chance encounter she had on a flight in the 1980s with the then-head of Hermes. Berkin was explaining why she wanted a larger handbag and, sketched her own version on an air sickness bag. The rest, as they say, is fashion history. Still to come, on the NewsHour, the Union for Government Workers responds to the Supreme Court ruling clearing the way from mass firings,

an investigation into the private adoption industry. And a new opera gives voice to people with disabilities using artificial intelligence. This is the PBS NewsHour, from the David M. Rubenstein studio at W.E.T.A. in Washington. And in the west from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University. 2025 is now the worst year for measles cases in this country in more than three decades. That's according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

More than 150 people have been hospitalized due to the growing outbreak. And three have died, including two unvaccinated children in Texas. To help us break down the new data, we're joined now by Dr. Adam Ratner. He's a member of the Committee on Infectious Diseases of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the author of Booster Shots, the urgent lessons of measles and the uncertain future of children's health. Dr. Ratner, thanks for joining us. So when we say it's the worst year in all those years, here just a quick look at the numbers. The national case count reached 1,288 on Wednesday, that is, across 38 states.

There have been 162 hospitalizations. About half of those are children under the age of five. Dr. put that into context for us. How do these numbers compare to years past? Right. So this is the largest number of cases in more than 30 years. It goes back to before we had eliminated measles from the United States, which happened in the year 2000.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, we had large outbreaks in a nine, number of cities, and that's when we have these really high case counts, and we're rivaling those numbers now. So this is a really disappointing milestone we've hit. And the year is only half over at this point. Do you expect this trend to continue? I mean, I think that the case numbers this year have really been driven by the outbreak in West Texas and New Mexico. That appears to be slowing down. But I think it's alarming that we have measles in many states now. And I'm concerned that there will be other unvaccinated communities where measles gets in and starts to spread. You mentioned the number of active outbreaks in states, but the largest outbreak, as you pointed out,

starting a few months ago in an under-vaccinated community in West Texas. You described outbreaks like that as the canary in the coal mine. Why? Because measles is our most contagious disease. It is more contagious than flu or COVID or polio or Ebola or anything else that you can think of. And so when we start to see vaccination rates drop, when we start to see local public health departments struggle to maintain funding and personnel, the first thing that we see are measles outbreaks. Measles outbreaks are important in and of themselves, as we've seen in West Texas this year. We've had a couple of children die there. It can be very serious, but it's also a warning sign that other things are coming. And we're already starting to see some of these other vaccine-preventable diseases like whooping cough coming back this year as well.

What role do medical and religious exemptions play in all of this? And how do you look at that balance between public health and personal freedom? right so vaccine mandates meaning school-based vaccine requirements were an integral part of getting to measles elimination and i think that without those sorts of mandates we don't get to the levels of vaccination that we need to control a disease as contagious as measles there will always be there have to be medical exemptions to vaccine mandates for the very rare children that have an allergy to something that's in one of the vaccines. Clearly, you don't require that child to get that vaccine. But it's the non-medical exemptions that have grown over the last decade or so

and that really put some of these communities at much higher risk. This is all, of course, happening in the context of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. last month, firing all 17 members of the CDC's vaccine advisory committee. He replaced them with his own choices. Kennedy, of course, as we know, has expressed anti-vaccine views in the past. But he argues, Dr. Ratner, that this will help to restore public trust in vaccines. How do you look at these changes? I think that these changes are alarming. This is the least qualified and least transparent advisory committee on immunization practices that we have ever seen. It's the meeting that happened last month of that committee was alarming because they talked about revisiting the entire vaccine schedule. There were presentations from anti-vaccine groups. And I think that we're in a very dangerous place with measles and other vaccine preventable diseases spreading and with the HHS secretary and now the ACIP seemingly working against vaccination. Dr. Adam Ratner, a member of the Committee on Infectious Diseases at the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you. The Supreme Court this week gave the Trump administration the green light to reorganize government agencies and begin the process of mass firings of federal workers. Tens of thousands of employees at nearly 20 federal agencies could be out of work with layoffs expected at the State Department as soon as tomorrow. morning. As Lisa Desjardin explains, that's happening even as court challenges will likely continue. The reductions in force, known as riffs, led by the Doge team, had been on hold for months. A lower court judge ordered a pause because the Trump administration did not consult Congress first. But the majority of the Supreme Court ruled that the planning for mass

firings can move forward. The justices wrote that the court is not ruling on the future firings, but only on the president's order that agencies start planning them. Justice Katanzi Brown Jackson dissented, writing sharply that the court is greenlighting the president's legally dubious actions in an emergency posture. To discuss where things stand and how federal workers are responding, I'm joined by Everett Kelly, the president of the American Federation of Government employees, which represents more than 800,000 people. Everett, a lot of people want to know what this means for federal workers. What are you hearing from them? Well, thank you for having me, first of all, Lisa. You know, federal employees are just at a

disarray, if you will. They are so confused. In one minute, they're being told you're going to get rift. The next minute, you know, is put on hold and then you're going to be rift again. So people are confused, but at the same time, they are more determined now than ever to fight. these unjust actions. We are trying to get a hold of what's happening in this exact moment. Our Nick Schiffen and others are reporting that the State Department may announce RIFs, those reductions in force tomorrow, even though we didn't expect them to start until next week.

Are you hearing of firing starting now? You know, I have in the last few moments heard of such an action, you know, but this is the thing. You know, that should not be a rush to implement these extreme layoff plans that was created by Elon Musk before there's been, you know, time to review and evaluate the consequences. Now, we saw what happened when the VA did just that. The Secretary drastically scaled back most plan. Secretary Rubio should engage in the same kind of careful analysis so that they can analyze every aspect of these actions. This is a court victory for President Trump at this point. And the White House did send us a statement saying, in their view,

this court decision clearly rebukes leftist judges trying to prevent the president from achieving government efficiency. You obviously represent federal workers, but I wonder how you see that argument about efficiency. Do you think there is any bloat in the federal government? Should there be any jobs cut? You know, I'm going to say this. I don't think that these actions is about efficiency. I clearly think that it's about retaliation for the members of AFGE and for the workforce standing up and calling out these unjust actions. Now, if the administration want to really talk about efficiency, want to talk about, you know, should there be rifts, you know, talk to the people that do these jobs every single day. And let's look at that. Let's analyze and see if

it's necessary because the services that the American people deserve, you know, they should get it. And it's the American workforce that's providing these services. I mean, just imagine, you know, if you just go in and blankly start rifting people, who's going to be affected by that? It's the American people. You know, it's the American people that are depending on the Veterans Administration to provide care for the veterans. It's going to be the people that provide food, safety, air safety, you know, air safety. travel, safety, all of these types of things that the American people are going to be affected by. So it should be careful analysis of these things before we just blankly start doing reduction in

forces. I know you mentioned this is confusing for federal workers. I think it's confusing for most Americans as well, all of the back and forth here. So I want to do a quick reset on a little bit of where we are with the actions in the past five and a half months. We know that somewhere around 75,000 federal workers took that fork offer for those early retirements or deferred resignations. There's a lawsuit that estimates some 24,000 probationary, that's newer workers mostly, have been fired. But overall, we still don't really know how many federal workers have been rift or fired,

how many may have been reinstated after they were fired. But to getting to your point, through all of this, what services you think have been affected? What has affected American lives so far? And what specifically do you think could be affected next? Well, you know, it's when you look at what's happening across this country, I mean, just when you look at Texas, for instance, and the rainstorms and the flooding there, you know, those FEMA employees are not readily available as they could be. You know, they will warn if you lay off these employees, you're going to suffer. lost. And in many instances, it could be people lives that's at stake. And you're seeing that happen across the board. You know, and it's going to be more and more of it. You know, if we are not

careful and think about how we are addressing these issues and how we're attacking these issues, especially without good analysis. I know Secretary Noem has said that she thinks localities on the ground are getting everything they need, but it, but there is reporting that we will follow up on, on what happened with FEMA exactly in Texas. But I want to ask you as we wrap up, you mentioned that the Veterans Administration, for example, did announce that they've cut back on their plans for firings. As these workers may get firing notices, do you think they should take that as an absolute firing? Or is it possible that courts will reverse this or the administration will? What happens next? Well, you know, to be honest with you, I think that AFGE has a

very strong case against the legality of these actions. So I encourage people to hang in there. These people want to do that job. They just want the opportunity to do it. Everett Kelly, thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you. As more states limit or ban acts. to abortion, some are beginning to push adoption as an alternative for women facing unplanned pregnancies. But when do laws go from accommodating to exploitative? From the Center for Investigative reporting, Julia Lurie examines the consequences in one of the most adoption-friendly states in the

country. Tia Goans and her partner, Dominique Stanley, recently welcomed a baby girl. But it's their first child, Tiana, whose photos blanket their Detroit apartment. I kind of find myself, like, feeling like she's here, but she's not here, you know. After Goans gave birth in 2018, she was in crisis, facing eviction and unable to find room in a shelter. Coldhouse shot. I had a whole three-month-old baby. Where do we possibly go? Desperate, she looked up adoption agencies and found Utah-based brighter adoption. Hi. My name's Sandy Quick. I am the owner, founder, and director of Brighter Adoptions. A representative for Brighter Adoptions offered to Fly Goans from Michigan all the way to Utah and said that they pay her cash after she gave up her child.

Online, Sandy Quick's agency, like many in Utah, offers housing and cash stipends, targeting struggling, expecting mothers across the country. Quick has said that over 95% of her birth mothers come from out of state. The lady just kept calling, kept calling, you know, rip, we push it for time, you know, this is what she want to do, who she wanted to do. So in my head, it's like, okay, winter's coming around. I don't want to be outside with her. Now facing homelessness, Goens and her three-month-old baby on the same day they were evicted, boarded a flight to Utah, paid for by brighter adoptions. The babies that adoptive parents most want to adopt are a rare command.

There's actually an acronym for it, AAP, as young as possible. Melinda Seymour, a law professor at Texas A&M who studies adoption, estimates there are as many as 2 million hopeful adoptive parents competing for just 20,000 newborns every year. Just moving her away from her support system is a great way to make a birth mother feel isolated and alone and helpless, all of which are, a great mindset for the adoption agency to get a consent form. Each state regulates adoption differently. States like New York and California give birth mothers 30 days after signing adoption papers to reconsider their decision. But states that are known as adoption friendly, like Utah, expedite the process by, for example, making adoption irreversible as soon as the birth mother signs. When states decide that they are going to be adoption friendly,

They're trying to make adoptions as quick as possible, as inexpensive as possible, as soon as possible. As a result of these laws, a cottage industry has emerged to fly in potential birth mothers to adoption-friendly states and charge a premium to adoptive parents. There's a lot of money to be had in adoption, and money can trump everything. Christine Watkins, a Utah State representative, tried and failed to pass adoption reform to protect birth parents. So many people's understanding of adoption is just this beautiful, benevolent thing. And of course it can be that, but people don't necessarily think about it as an industry. It is an industry, yeah.

Basically, because the state allows it. We don't have any laws that prohibit it. Over the past decade, dozens of states have introduced adoption-friendly, legislation. Georgia, Kentucky, and Indiana have all shortened the period during which a birth mother can change her mind. In Goen's case, things were moving fast. Soon after landing in Utah, she met the people who wanted to adopt her daughter, a white couple from Mississippi. But immediately, she had second thoughts. I text Sandy and told her, like, you know, I'm kind of starting to change my mind a little bit. This might not be something I want to do. But the morning after,

Brighter Adoption staff showed up at her hotel with the final paperwork. It all was just happening so fast. It's not something I wanted to do. Why they still wanted me sign? Then I'm like, if I don't do this, where am I going to end up? The forms waived her rights to protections in Michigan, where Goans would have had up to five days to change her mind. So it was like, what do I do?

What do I do? so I just I just didn't want her to be home with me. Just two days after landing in Utah, Goans reluctantly signed her baby over to the adoptive parents. I didn't really hold her.

I didn't really tell her goodbye. I didn't kiss her. They didn't give me a chance to talk to her. So they just came. Came and got her. On the way to the airport, Quick handed Goans $4,000 in cash. Quick said the money was for Goans' future expenses, but Goans wasn't expecting that much. And the whole process doesn't sit well with her.

A lot of people say it's like you sold your baby and then I sell my baby. I think I took, that people took advantage of me for my baby. Sandy Quick did not respond to multiple interview requests, but did send an email saying the agency make sure that birth mothers fully understand the implications of adoption. She added, I am someone who ends up filling these gaps where our social safety nets fall short. Now back home, Goen said she immediately regretted her decision. But Michigan officials could do nothing to help since the adoption was in Utah. She'd been able to slow things down.

She'd probably still have her child with her. Susan Duzza-Gar Alexander is the clinical director at Pact. a California nonprofit that provides abortion, adoption, and parenting resources to pregnant women. She says women in crisis become much more vulnerable in unfamiliar surroundings. The minute she said, I'm not sure that I want to do this, I'm not sure that I can do this. I mean, that should just call a full stop, full halt. Domestic, private, infinite option in America toes that line of legalized trafficking anyway. It would be very easy to cross over that line.

Ashley Mitchell is the director of Knee to Knee, which runs support groups for birth parents. Because the agencies are watching us, we try and be as quick and discreet as possible. Her family spends some Sundays at the apartment complexes in Utah, where adoption agencies house birth mothers, passing out leaflets to ensure that the women know their rights. We want them to know that they have the right to change their mind, that they have the right to go home if they want to go home. I think we got them all. The professionals that fly the women here 100% count on them not knowing what's available to them. In confusion, there is profit. If you can move a birth mother to a different state and take advantage of more favorable laws for your client, why wouldn't you? Seymour, an adoptive parent herself, emphasizes the good that adoption can do if it's done ethically.

I'm not anti-adoption by any stretch of the imagination. Adoption has a function to play for the benefit of children, and we are failing in that endeavor. She says Congress has done little to regulate adoption because it's been seen as a personal family matter, rather than as an industry. If you classified adoption as commerce, then Congress would have the business. power to regulate it as it goes across state lines. Goens has not seen her daughter for more than six years, but she still regularly sends her packages. She doesn't know if her daughter receives them, but she keeps the record of the gifts, so that one

day her daughter will know she was thinking of her. For PBS News Hour and the Center for Investigative Reporting, I'm Julia Lurie in Detroit. Late last month, the Justice Department fired several officials involved in the January 6th criminal prosecution, while others have been demoted to low-level positions. They're just the latest moves that some say are part of a retribution campaign against anyone who worked on the January 6th investigation. White House correspondent Laura Barone Lopez spoke with one of the prosecutors who led that case. Greg Rosen is the former chief of the Justice Department's Capitol Siege section, where he helped lead the largest federal criminal case in U.S. history after the violent January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol.

Last month, he left the Justice Department in the wake of President Trump's decision to pardon or commute the sentences of more than 1,500 January 6 defendants. Greg Rosen joins me now. Greg, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. You were a long-time assistant U.S. attorney at the Justice Department. You served there during the First Trump administration. Did the January 6 pardons play a role at all in your resignation?

Watching a case like the prosecution of the riot at the U.S. Capitol in January 6, 2021, was a culmination of efforts over the course of four years. And watching it end in the way it did, not just with the pardons, but with the firings and arguably the dismantling of the... certain aspects of the Department of Justice was incredibly disheartening. And so did it play a role? Sure, it played a role. As you mentioned, there were so many people that worked on those January 6 cases.

There were thousands that worked on it across federal law enforcement. And many of them were either fired or have resigned. Since then, what do you think this says about the future of the Justice Department or the way the Trump administration is handling the Justice Department? I mean, I hope it's just a blip on the long record of an esteemed Department of Justice. I mean, the Justice Department is named for virtue. It means something. And to have individuals leave the Department of Justice because not only the priorities of the department have changed, which is totally permissible from one administration to the other, but to see it done in this fashion is, you know, incredibly, to say the least, disappointing.

I want to ask you about a recent Trump administration. hire Jared Wise. He's a former FBI agent who participated in the January 6th attack on the Capitol. He was charged by the Justice Department for encouraging the mob to kill police officers. He was subsequently pardoned by President Trump. But now he's an advisor to Trump's Justice Department working on what's called the weaponization working group. What kind of message does it send that this person who participated in the January 6 attack is now inside the Justice Department. Political views are now something that are subject to attack in our Republic. And part of America is having that ability to dissent, having that ability to sort of freely

speak on these issues. So I think it sends an incredibly dangerous message. I think it's also incredibly hypocritical. This administration has consistently talked about backing the blue and ensuring the protection of law enforcement. So to hire somebody who was accused, and at the time, remember, this was a public trial with public exhibits that was vetted by a federal judge. At the time, having an individual who is alleged to have said, kill him, kill him, and encouraged political violence against police officers to hire that person to the department sends exactly the opposite message that I think the department was trying to convey. This week, the Justice Department announced that it's investigating former FBI director James Comey

and former CIA director, John Brennan. The president was asked if he wanted to see both of these men, quote, behind bars, and here's what he said. I will tell you, I think they're very dishonest people. I think they're crooked as hell. And maybe they have to pay a price for that. I believe they are truly bad people and dishonest people. So whatever happens happens.

What do you think these probes into Comey, into Brennan, say about how the... the Justice Department's powers are being used against the president's perceived enemies. So perception is reality. And the perception right now is that any time you do anything against the president or an ally of the president that you will be subject to some sort of scrutiny or investigation simply for having the audacity

to speak out or to say something that is different. And that's a huge problem. That's a huge problem in this country. That is something that everyday Americans do not want. You do not want these investigations being driven by the Twitter sphere or being driven by sort of inklings that happen. You want it to be done carefully. You want it to be done thoughtfully. I don't know anything about these probes. But if a career prosecutor or an agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation or anybody looks at it, they're going to want to do so carefully and with

the appropriate guardrails to make sure that it's not being abused. When you look back at the prosecution that you led into the Capitol riot and all of the work that you, as well as other FBI, DOJ and FBI officials did, what do you want the public to understand about this investigation and those prosecutions? What happened on that day was horrific on a number of levels. And one of the takeaways of what happened on January 6, 2021 was not simply that there was violence. It was not simply that it was a protest rung amok, which is something I've heard. It was a full-blown, full-scale riot, which happened to coincide, intentionally so, with the peaceful, or what was supposed to be, the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to the next. It had nothing to do with who the incumbent was. It had nothing to do with who the incoming president was.

It had to do with the use of force against the United States government and a mob that assaulted what is arguably the most important legislature in the state. history of the world. So my takeaway is that type of political violence just cannot occur in this country. President Trump is now comparing ongoing protests against ICE against the deportation actions he's taken to insurrections, to the January 6th insurrection. Does that undermine at all the work that you did, the convictions that you and your team sought? I don't know if it undermines it. I don't think they're comparable. What happened on January 6th, as we described it in briefings and argued before courts, was sweet generous. It was unique. It was one of a kind. And it was one of a kind because of not just the sheer violence we saw and the amount of people that were there and the amount

of officers that were hurt, but it was also because of when it was occurring, which was during the electoral college certification. Other protests have, and unfortunately perhaps will devolve into violence, depending on what the issue is, that is also deplorable. You cannot have circumstances where people are using force against police officers who are doing their job. That is a consistent drumbeat, and I will be consistent about that. But protests in isolation or violence in isolation is not what we saw on January 6, 2021. Greg Rosen, thank you for your time.

Thanks for having me. At an Omaha, Nebraska Festival this summer, new work explores the intersection of art, disability, and technology, asking questions like who has a voice and who gets to be heard. Senior arts correspondent Jeffrey Brown reports on this unusual undertaking for our arts and culture series, Canvas. A mother sings to her disabled son of her love and hopes for him. But there is danger threatening.

If we stay, you belong to cry. And together they decide to flee. We're in a dystopian future world, though perhaps not so very different from our own, in which artificial intelligence is being used to create what, some new kind of life. The opera titled Sensorium X is both art and advocacy, aimed at giving new voice and opportunities to the disabled, using AI to benefit rather than harm, and changing the world of opera itself. Composer Paola Prestini.

I'm very interested in how art can open up new avenues, and that's what I felt like Sensorium did. In this case, new avenues to... To listen more deeply and to create more welcoming space. for folks who express themselves differently and who, you know, have different disabilities. Do you say Paula? Prestini's collaborator, poet Brenda Shaughnessy, who wrote the libretto and grounded it in her lived experience as the mother of a disabled child.

Where do you hear it? Her son, Cal. Now age 18, seen here at 12, listening to music by Pristini, played by her husband. her husband, cellist Jeffrey Ziegler. Shaughnessy, who'd never written for an opera before, says this work was deeply personal and often painful, but for her necessary. Non-verbal, non-ambulatory, kids like him

don't get to be part of anything. In a way, I wrote him into the opera because I wanted him to get to be part of the mix, you know, get to be, get to do something, get to be the hero of a story, get to, you know, be, um, be heard. And that became the And that became the essence of this project.

Who has a voice and who is heard? Prestini and Shaughnessy were determined to make the answer everyone by creating a work for a cast and crew that included some with disabilities, such as cerebral palsy. Autism and blindness. Writing and composing a story of a mother called Mem sung by Haley McAvoy and her disabled son named Kitsune. Kitsune's voice is central to the opera, it can't be sidelined. It's in the score. It's in the music, it's in the tech.

It's in the plot. But if opera is all about the voice, how to write for those thought to have none. It's like writing for a person who you love, but the instrument doesn't exist yet. And so the challenge that we had was, well, how do we amplify the voice that this person does have because there are nonverbal ways in which you communicate? And then how do we find, if you will, a deeper expression to the communication device that this actor would use. One of the two actors playing Kitsunei, 23-year-old Jacob Jordan, who is himself non-verbal,

but has a new way of communicating. For the first 22 years of my life, I felt like a witness to a crime that would happen over and over again. My thoughts were being held hostage inside my head while the wrong words were impersonating me, tricking everyone to believe I was much simpler than I am. Jacob was diagnosed as a toddler with autism and apraxia, a neurological condition in which his body and speech don't respond to the signal sent from his brain. Here's how he puts it, along with a bit of his characteristic sense of humor.

Basically, my body does not listen to the commands, I give it. I may want to ask my friend if he saw that cute girl walk by, but my speaking voice gets stuck in loops, talking about airports or dumb songs, and a small variety of... other repetitive topics. It also affects my whole body. Only in the last two years came a breakthrough when he learned to type words with a trained communication partner. When he finishes his sentence, it comes out in an electronic voice.

I caught the acting bud. But in our interview for which we sent questions ahead of time so he could consider in type responses, we heard more of Jacob's actual voice. Nothing compares to getting to express myself purposefully, with the voice I was born with. Brought to life through Sensorium AI, a partnership between the opera's creative team

and NYU's Ability Project, a research lab in Brooklyn, New York, dedicated to the intersection of disability and technology. Luke Dubois is an NYU professor, engineer, and researcher, and himself a composer and musician. He first recorded the sounds Jacob Ken and Doesman. can and does make. So we've got recordings of Jacob

just doing his thing. It's a part about my going back if it's a rotation into his way. Right, so he's very expressive, some of it is whistles, some of it's singing, some of its speech like that.

And what the system does is it takes that recording and infers from it the physical body that made it. In furs means you're creating sense of his body and therefore a sense of his voice. Exactly. And so what I can do is I can take, you know, a phrase, like, I would like to go sailing tomorrow, have it crank through. And then what you would end up with is you would end up with a recording.

I would like to go sailing tomorrow. Right. And it sounds like Jacob. Dubois and the team use sensors that allow Jacob to control his speech. How would I like you to say tomorrow? And depending on how he moves his hand, give it a kind of expressiveness of pitch and pace. I was never lost. Amazing stuff.

And it was created specially for and incorporated into the opera. Making this a story about the potential evils of AI while using its benefits. And this is open source technology, publicly available for anyone to take to the next step. I want this in the hands of everyone who needs it. I've been talking to all sorts of speech researchers all over the country in the last couple years, and they're all looking at really interesting different angles on this thing. So it's going to be cool, man. It's going to be cool what happens next.

Composer Paola Pristini hopes her work will receive more productions and offering a blueprint for the future give new opportunities to those with disabilities wanting to be part of her art form. Create the system and understanding that, yes, it's a challenge, but these are the ways, and you just do it one step at a time, and you get there. All of a sudden you get the complexity of human life represented on stage, and that's why we do what we do. It's not just a mirror to society, it's also a pathway to a better way. to a better way. And poet and librettist Brenda Shaughnessy sees the opera and its technology opening avenues for many, including her son.

It's not enough, in my opinion, for Cal to just sort of sit there on the sidelines not getting to participate in anything. It's not enough for anybody to just sort of be there disconnected. What I want is for a kid, a disabled kid, a nonverbal kid to see this and suddenly say, not just, oh, I could be in an opera, I could maybe be an actor, maybe I could maybe I could play Kitsune one day. But I also want that kid to say, there I am. I exist. I. T. It took Jacob Jordan about a minute to type his answer when I asked what it was like to perform on stage in Omaha earlier this summer. His answer was worth any weight.

It was the most fulfilling experience of my life. For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Jeffrey Brown in Brooklyn, New York. NewsHour. And that is the News Hour for tonight. I'm Omna Nawaz. On behalf of the entire NewsHour team, thank you for joining us.