PBS News Hour - Full Show - November 4, 2025 – PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Tuesday on the News Hour, voters cast ballots in state-level elections that could signal the future of U.S. politics. A group of small businesses and states challenge President Trump's authority to impose sweeping tariffs, taking their case all the way to the Supreme Court. Plus, the complicated legacy of the late former Vice President Dick Cheney. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Good evening. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Omna Nawaz on the news hour tonight. Voters cast ballots in state-level elections that could signal the future of U.S. politics. A group of small businesses and states challenge President Trump's authority to impose sweeping tariffs, taking their case all the way to the Supreme Court. We are bearing the burden of an asphyxiating tax. businesses went up by millions and millions, millions of dollars that we did not have. It has made our business worse.

And we look back on the complicated legacy of the late former Vice President Dick Cheney, the man who made the case for the Iraq War. voters cast ballots in key races across the country. In Virginia, Democrat Abigail Spanberger will be the first woman to serve as governor. With more than 70% of the vote counted, the former three-term congresswoman leads her Republican challenger,

Winsome Earl Sears, with 55% of the vote. Spanberger spoke just moments ago. We are built on the things we share, not the things that pull us apart. And I am proud that our campaign earned votes from Democrats' Republicans' independence and everyone in between. In New Jersey, Democrat Mikey Cheryl

leads her Republican challenger Jack Chittarelli in the governor's race, though the Associated Press has not yet called that race. Meantime, the polls have just closed in New York City, where Democrat Zohran Mamdani is hoping to fend off

a challenge from former Democratic governor turned independent Andrew Cuomo and Republican Curtis Sliwa. Our team has been following all of the races today. in William Brigham. Join me now with the latest. So, Liz, let's talk about Virginia, former Congresswoman Spamberger there, elected the first female governor flipping the office to Democratic control. How did she do it? She mentioned this a little bit in those remarks that

we just played there, that she was appealing to people across all political spectrums. She managed to get a decent number of independents to vote for her in this race. We have some of this from just some exit polls that came out within the last few hours. Fifty-six percent of independent voters broke for Spanberger. Only 41% broke for Winsome Earl Sears, the current lieutenant governor. If you are a political candidate, you are always trying to win over those independent voters. You're looking at suburban moms. You're looking at people who may be wanting to have changed their vote in the last few months because of what they're seeing at the federal government level. So many of the voters that we spoke with out on the campaign,

trail said that they were thinking and considering some of the actions in Washington from President Trump because the federal workforce has been dramatically slimmed down in the last few months. Some of those federal cuts did affect some of these voters' finances. This is also something we're seeing right here in this exit poll. For Spanberger voters, 66% of her voters said that federal cuts impacted their finances for winsome Earl Sears, only 33% of the voters who supported her said that federal cuts impacted their finances. This was something that Spanberger was very focused on on the campaign trail

was the economy and job creation. We heard that over and over from her. She was very disciplined on that. Earl Sears focusing on immigration issues and some of those culture war issues instead. So in the end, this paid off for Spanberger with her now projected. as the first female governor there in Virginia. I mean about potentially more history made in Virginia as well. State Senator Ghazal al-Kashmi could become the first Muslim woman ever elected to statewide office in the entire United States. Tell us more about that race for lieutenant governor.

Yeah, so she is 61 years old. She was first elected to the Virginia Senate in 2019, and she said that she ran at that time in response to President Trump and some of the Muslim bans that he had passed as soon as he, tried to implement as soon as he got into office. She said that that was an impetus for her on the campaign trail while she was running those. She focused on other issues like education. She's an educator by training.

But yes, just another example of history being made. And, you know, regardless of who had won Spanberger or Winsome Earl Sears, they're both women. They both would have made history in this race. There are a few states that can say that they've not elected female governors at this point. Virginia crossed that off the list tonight. Right. made there tonight. William, meanwhile, in New Jersey, of course, you've got the Democratic

Congresswoman, Mikey, Cheryl, hoping to keep Democratic control of the governorship there against the Republican candidate, Jack Chitterrelli. What's the latest tonight? The latest is that this is still a very, very tight race. Unlike in Virginia, this is, this was a tight race all along. I mean, New Jersey is considered a blue state, and this was very alarming to Democrats all along, that Spanberger, I'm sorry, that Cheryl seemed to have a very tight lead over Chiteorelli. But two recent polls show that she might even be in a dead heat with him. Part of the reason for this is that President Trump had expanded the GOP's base when he last ran in New Jersey. He did pretty well in the state compared to previous Republicans, and Chittarelli

seemed to be riding some of those coattails. And exit polls, though, did determine that Chitterelli's embrace of Trump was hurting him. In some exit polls that came out tonight, voters who said that they were dissatisfied with the focus and the state of the current country were going by going to Cheryl in very strong numbers. Another key demographic was Latino voters. In 2024, Trump made big inroads with Latino voters in New Jersey. Let's look at this graphic here. You'll see at the very bottom there, Trump won 43% of Latino voters in the state versus Kamala Harris,

but it seems that his time in office has soured them on him. Look at the bottom, at the top there, Chittarelli is led down 10% in comparison with just 32% of Latinos supporting him. We heard this a lot in earlier reporting talking to Latino voters who felt that the Trump administration's tariffs and its very aggressive actions on immigration, which has rounded up, I think it's something like 3,000 people in New Jersey so far, has turned them. So Cheryl's pressing of this issue throughout the case that Chittarelli was a mag. candidate seems to be helping her. Meanwhile, I know William, we're also following this New York mayoral contest, which has attracted national attention, global attention, even President Trump has weighed in on it. It's widely seen as Zoran Mamdani's race to lose here, but President Trump weighed in very late

to endorse Andrew Cuomo as the independent candidate. What's the latest on that race? What should we know? The latest is that we are witnessing this truly remarkable political story where a virtual unknown candidate a year ago, Zora Mandani is a 34-year-old, Democratic Socialist, came out of nowhere and now seems to be on the cusp of running the biggest city in the country. And Andrew Cuomo, who this was considered his race to lose, now is a distant second in the polling that we have seen. And with his name recognition and his long legacy in the state as governor before,

it's sort of striking that Mondami and his campaign of affordability. has punched through with voters. As you said, the president has been weighing in on this race all along, whether that will have an impact we still just don't really know. All right, Liz. Meanwhile, I need to ask you as well about the Department of Justice's decision today. You've been following this to send election monitors to two states as people were voting. What should we know about that? They were sent to New Jersey and California, six counties, one of them, Orange County, another one, Los Angeles County, so some larger counties that people have heard of before. I asked the Department of Justice for information about who they were sending, what kind of monitoring they were doing. They referred us to their announcement. And in their announcement, they had said that this was to ensure transparency, ballot security, and compliance with federal law.

Now, we got some more information, though, from the registrar in Orange County in California who said that he got the names of the people who were being sent from the Department of Justice. They arrived yesterday. They're staying through tomorrow in that county. One of them is the Deputy Assistant Attorney General Michael Gay. It's a pretty high-ranking official at the Department of Justice. He is a California attorney by training, and he has also been vocal about wanting to get rid of mail-in voting. That is something that we have heard the president talk about a number of times. Recently, the other person that was sent to Orange County is an assistant U.S. attorney, Corey Webster.

Now, I spoke with former Civil Rights Division DOJ attorney David Becker about what all of this means. He says it's not unusual for the Department of Justice to send election monitors during federal election years during those midterm or presidential years. He said it is unusual, though, to see them sent for races that are not federal races. California and New Jersey do not have any federal races on the ballot this year. And more broadly speaking, voting rights advocates are concerned that this may be a test. for more widespread efforts to undermine the midterm elections next year. Another story we know you'll continue to follow. Liz Landers and William Brangham.

Our thanks to you both. Well, voters in California also headed to the polls today to decide the fate of a plan to redraw congressional maps which could have national implications. Lisa Desjardin recently traveled to the Golden State where it's become an expensive fight and a deeply divisive issue for voters. We have our band that's practicing.

It's not Sunday, but for Pastor Trina Turner at Victory and Praise Church, there's really no day of rest. You're busy. Oh, my goodness, yes. I'm excited, though. The Stockton Community Fixture has 34 different programs, including a food bank. In 2019, Turner did something else unusual. I'd heard that a lot of black people don't participate in redistricting, specifically black women. Oh, man, I felt like now that is a challenge.

I have to at least apply. Welcome Pastor Trina Turner for her interview. Thank you. She made it through a long process to become a member of the state's independent citizen redistricting commission. Prior to 2010, legislators in California drew the lines. Which draws congressional maps and aims to keep politics out. That mattered in Stockton.

The commission kept out an infamous gerrymander called the Stockton Finger for the shape it makes on the map. It previously divided the city. It was an amazing process, and I was very proud of it, stood on it. But this August... We are trying to defend democracy as a... California governor, Gavin Newsom, proposed Proposition 50. It would override the nonpartisan maps until after the 2030 census. We are talking about emergency measures to respond to what's happening in Texas,

and we will nullify what happens in Texas. Meaning the Texas Republican legislature's redrawing of congressional maps pushed by President Trump, an attempt to pick up five seats without swaying a single voter. That moved fast and so did the effort by California Democrats to counter it. The gray is the old district and the black line is the new district. Paul Mitchell and his company drew the Prop 50 maps largely here in his Sacramento home. An expert in the field, these are his first partisan maps. And he defends that.

California isn't the only state that's in a position to significantly push back to, you know, flip five seats in response to what Texas is doing. They're trying to manipulate the midterm elections. The result has been an expensive and intense campaign. With control of Congress potentially at stake, Democrats are stumping hard for yes. Have you decided to support? Yes. Awesome.

Yes. With a focus message. This is California's direct. temporary response to Trump's attempt to rig the election. It is an attempt to not have to worry about accountability. But Republicans campaigning for vote no are slamming Democrats as the partisan problem here. Think about the arguments that they're doing for Prop 50. To save democracy, you must dismantle democracy.

To beat gerrymandering, we have to gerrymander worse. The campaign spending is astronomical. expected to be well over $100 million, possibly $200 million. That includes a record level from outside groups for a state ballot measure. Voters see high stakes as well, like yes voter Charles Martinez. I'm glad we have a governor that's willing to play ball, and, you know, doesn't back down. It seems to be the only one amongst of other few that actually are speaking up for

their people against this administration. And no voter, Alex Dominguez. Do I think Texas should be doing this? No. Said simply, I don't think that they should be doing it, but I don't think that two wrongs make a right here. Just because Texas did something wrong doesn't mean that California has the right to go do something wrong as well. Key to this plan is California's Central Valley, the state's breadbasket, an increasingly important political soil. It's home to some of the state's most competitive congressional districts. One is a swing district which Democrats hope to keep, and the other is a Republican seat, David Valadeo's. which Democrats hope will be one of five they can flip. The proposed map makes them more democratic by drawing in suburbs and cities, a concern for a vast group.

This is not just a job, but this is like our livelihood. Rural farmers, like Jenny Holterman, an almond grower and fourth generation to farm in the state. But she says it's getting more difficult. The farming community is extremely over-regulated. Example? Water. Almond's are a thirsty crop, controversial to many environmentalists, and Holterman navigates increasingly complex government policies. It's harder to get water.

It is harder. Because of politics. Yes. Yes. They've made politics a center of it all. Let me find it real quick. Remember Paul Mitchell? We asked the mapmaker to look at how redistricting would affect Holterman.

She's right on the perimeter of the district. Oh, she's right there on the border. Yeah. She and her family would be in a new district, but... She's going to go from being in the Valadeo district with a 50-50 chance of having a Republican to being in the Prince Fung district with a 100% chance of being a Republican. And Mitchell argues that any Democrat replacing a Republican would have to consider rural interests. I ask Holterman.

How do you respond to that? When you lump those rural communities in with now more urban communities, now you dilute our thoughts in our representation, because now those representatives, have to lean towards who is more of their constituents. Back in Stockton, Pastor Turner says the new maps aren't perfect there either. Here locally, that is a mess. It's not what we would want, right? The new map keeps most communities together, but not Stockton. The Stockton finger and divide would come back.

Even so, Turner is voting yes as a response to Texas and the president. I believe with everything in me that our democracy is at state. I believe that this moment requires that we take measures that we never would have considered before in order to stop the overreach by our current administration, our president mainly. If you see injustice in Texas, how can you then justify doing something like that yourself with the process? What was done in Texas was done to them by a decision and it was done.

Californians have an opportunity to support Proposition 50 and say, yes, I agree with these new maps or no, I do not. For the state with the nation's largest population, a very large decision. Today, President Trump attacked the California vote before any ballots are counted. He wrote that it is under legal and criminal review. Our Liz Landers asked the White House press secretary about this, and she gave no evidence of any significant fraud. I spoke with California Senator Alex Padilla.

He said Trump wants to undermine an election, he knows he's going to lose. And in California, again, it's not a candidate on the ballot. It's an initiative. So what's the turnout been like? It's actually been solid to high. Already before today, almost 7 million early ballots had come in. And today, if you look online, there's still lines stretching all across the state, both in some conservative and in some more progressive areas.

But I spoke to the person from the piece, Paul Mitchell, just a few hours ago, as he was standing in line, by the way. said by his reckoning looking at turnout, he thinks there are going to be enough turnout kind of favorability in more democratic areas that he thinks this race may be able to be called tonight. And what about the impact? How does the California vote fit within the larger national story? Let's look at a map here. We've been talking about these two battlegrounds here, Texas and California. Now, what's happened since California entered has been actually a redistricting war. Now look at all the states that have been considering or enacting.

different redistricting changes. It's 11. And most of those are red states. The lighter red ones are those that are considering the darker reds ones enacting. When you boil it all down at this point, Jeff, we don't yet know how this will end. There is a chance that Republicans will gain more than Democrats at this point, or it will be even. But even just tonight, the state of Kansas, Republicans there said they are quashing what had been an attempt at redistricting there, saying that they just don't have enough votes in their state assembly to get that done. On top of that, of course, not just Congress and the House of Representatives as at risk here, but whether there will be a check on President Trump and the Voting Rights Act,

because if all of this redistricting happens in a time when courts have loosened restrictions regarding sort of the idea of racial gerrymandering, there is a fear that perhaps Voting Rights Act will also be weakened as well, and we will see perhaps some minority groups lose representation. Lisa Deja Radaner, thanks to you for this reporting. You're welcome. The day's other headlines start in Washington, where at 35 days the government shutdown has now tied the record for the longest in U.S. history.

That comes after the Senate failed for a 14th time to pass funding earlier today. There is cautious optimism that the standoff could end as soon as this week, but lawmakers talking behind the scenes. Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson hinted at those talks today, saying he hopes that some Senate Democrats will vote to reopen the government. We're going above the heads of the so-called leadership, and we are appealing to the consciences of a handful of people in the Senate who want to do the right thing and just stop the pain.

Stop the pain for the American people. Also today, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy warned of mass chaos if the shutdown continues into next week. saying his agency may need to, quote, close certain parts of the airspace. Air traffic controllers are working without pay, and Duffy has said that a large number are calling out sick, making air traffic difficult to manage. President Trump announced tonight that he's nominating Jared Isaacman

to be NASA Corps Administrator. This is the second time Trump has put forward the billionaire businessman for the role. As President-elect Trump pitched Isaacman late last year, then pulled his nomination in May, amid a public falling out with Elon Musk, who runs SpaceX and is a close ally of Isaacman. Trump instead made Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, acting administrator of NASA. Isaacman will now need to be confirmed by the Senate to take up the role. A UPS cargo plane crashed in Louisville, Kentucky this evening, killing at least three people and injuring 11 more.

Video showed flames on the plane's left wing and a trail of smoke as it was attempting to take off. The plane slightly lifted off the ground before crashing and exploding into a fireball. A building next to the runway appears to also have been damaged. UN Secretary General Antonio Gutierisch says the war in Sudan is spiraling out of control after paramilitary forces took control of a vital city in Darfur last week. Speaking in Qatar today, Gutierish called for an immediate ceasefire in the two-year conflict. In the meantime, in North Sudan, those who escaped the border. bloodshed in the city of Al-Fasher received much-needed medical aid and described the violence

they left behind. Once you leave the gates, the bodies start. Some were killed by thirst, some by exhaustion, some by their injuries, the bleeding. Some were injured by the rockets in Al-Fashir. They hurt more than gunshots. There are reports that the paramilitary rapid support forces killed more than 450 people at a hospital in El Fasher last week and have also carried out ethnically targeted killings. The RSF has denied carrying out the attacks.

The Israeli military says the remains of a hostage who was returned today is that of Itai Chen. He was the last U.S. citizen held by Hamas. The group says his body was found in a suburb of Gaza City. It was then handed over to the Red Cross to be returned to Israel. All told, Hamas has now returned the remains of 21 hostages under terms of the fragile ceasefire deal that took effect last month. We have an update to a story that we brought you last night.

In Rome, the man pulled from the rubble hours after a medieval tower partially collapsed has died. Rescuers worked for 11 hours to remove him from the structure, but he succumbed to his injuries at a local hospital. Three other workers were rescued after the dramatic partial collapse of the structure yesterday. The 13th century, Torre de Iconti, was undergoing extensive restoration. work when two parts of it gave way. Officials in the Philippines say at least 26 people are dead after typhoon Kalmeiji flooded

the center of the country. The fast-moving storm set off flash floods that piled up cars and trapped residents on rooftops. Kalmagi knocked out power for entire provinces and displaced tens of thousands of people. The storm is the 20th tropical cyclone to hit the Philippines this year. And military officials also say a helicopter crashed today as it was transporting humanitarian aid to affected areas. Six people aboard were killed.

The State Department says it's providing $24 million in emergency aid to Jamaica, Haiti, the Bahamas, and Cuba after Hurricane Melissa. Half of that will go to Jamaica, where the country's Prime Minister, Andrew Holness, said today the storm caused at least $6 billion in damage. That amounts to about 30 percent of the nation's gross domestic product. Hurricane Melissa made landfall in Jamaica last week as a Category 5 storm, killing at least 32 people. Officials there warned that that number could still rise. Wall Street ended lower today amid losses by some big tech companies.

The Dow Jones Industrial average dropped around 250 points. The NASDAQ took a heavy hit, falling nearly 500 points. The S&P 500 gave back about 80 points. And David Beckham is now officially, Sir David Beckham. The soccer legend was knighted today by King Charles III during an investiture ceremony at Windsor Castle. The 50-year-old was recognized for services to his sport and for his charity work. The honor also means that his wife, pop star-turned fashion designer, Victoria, is now Lady

Beckham. After the ceremony, Sir David said that the honor was, without doubt, his proudest moment. Still to come. On the News Hour, a new book investigates President Trump's decade-long effort to politicize the Justice Department. And we examine the life of the highly influential and equally controversial former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is the PBS News Hour from the David M. Rubenstein studio at WETA in Washington and in the west from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University.

Tomorrow, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case. challenging President Trump's authority to impose sweeping tariffs. Economics correspondent Paul Salman has a preview. To me, the most beautiful word in the dictionary is tariff. Donald Trump's campaign zest for tariffs has become a fixation of his second term. You know I've used tariffs for lots of different reasons. Tariffs, as you know, are starting to come in at record levels. And with tariffs, we're the wealthiest nation ever in the history of the world.

President Trump first imposed sweeping tariffs, taxes on imported goods in February, executive orders on Canada, Mexico, and China, calling their collective failure to stem the flow of drugs here a national emergency. They're sending massive amounts of fentanyl, killing hundreds of thousands of people a year with a fentanyl. In April, on Liberation Day, the president announced tariffs on virtually all U.S. trading partners, plus country-specific so-called reciprocal tariffs. The emergency, large and persistent trade deficits. Such horrendous imbalances have devastated our industrial base and put our national security at risk.

In short, chronic trade deficits are no longer merely an economic problem. They're a national emergency that threatens our security and our very way of life. Many of the tariffs were, as you've doubtless heard, later amended, paused, even removed, but tomorrow the Supreme Court will hear challenges to their legality. Specifically, the president's use of a 1977 emergency law to levy tariffs without Congress is okay. The International Emergency Economic Powers Act gives the president, you know, essentially as the name suggests, emergency economic powers. Scotus blog co-founder and news hour analyst Amy Howe.

If he concludes that there's a threat with respect to the national security, foreign policy, or economy, then it gives him a wide variety of powers, including the power to regulate imports. But a group of states and small businesses, including toy makers and a wine distributor, claimed the import taxes are crushing them and that the power to regulate is not the power to tax. The challengers claim that there's nothing in the law about tariffs or duties. No president in nearly 50 years has ever invoked this law to impose tariffs or duties. And that there are hundreds of laws that give the power to regulate. And no one has ever understood that power to regulate to give the power to impose tariffs. They say that's Congress's job. The Trump administration's counter. The Trump administration says that the text is on their side. They say that the law gives the president the power to regulate imports and that tariffs have been traditionally understood as a way to regulate imports. These taxes were unlawful. Rick Woldenberg is CEO of Chicago-based educational toy company learning resources.

He's a plaintiff in the case. The government has the ability to tax me however. they wish. But the way James Madison designed our form of government is they have to go to Congress and have them write a law, solicit comments, debate the law, and then stand in the public square in the sunshine and vote where all the voters can see them. Most of Woldenberg's products, like the pretend and play cash register, and Spike, the fine motor hedgehog, are made in Asia. In 2024, we paid $2.3 million in annual costs for duties and tariffs. We believe that we will end up paying $14 million this year, and I would guess that the number will be double or triple next year.

But, of course, who knows what the rates will be tomorrow. Now, some tariffs are kind of hard to connect to emergency law, like new ones on Brazil. Trump's citing a witch hunt in the trial of his ally, former President Jaya Bolsonaro. Throughout the world, there's a growing realization. And he trumpeted more tariffs on Canada after an Ontario ad ran during the World Series, showing that President Ronald Reagan opposed tariffs. America's jobs and growth are at stake. As to the effective tariffs on Woldenberg's small business, We are bearing the burden of an asphyxiating tax.

Taxes went up by millions and millions, millions of dollars that we did not have. It has made our business worse. According to Goldman Sachs, U.S. companies have passed 37% or so of those taxes onto consumers thus far and absorbed more than half themselves, but will pass more than 50% onto consumers by the end of the year. And that means hits to the larger economy, says Yale Budget Labs, Natasha Sarin. We expect inflation to be about 1.8% higher as a result of these tariffs. We expect the GDP of this country, the economy of this country, to persistently be about 0.4% lower. And we expect prices to be thousands of dollars higher for the average American family.

On the other hand, tariffs have been a boon for the government, which collected nearly $200 billion in tariffs in fiscal year 2025, up over 250% from fiscal year 2024. The tariffs over the course of the next decade are going to raise. somewhere on the order of two and a half trillion dollars in additional tax revenue. And if the government loses the case, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant predicts a nightmare. We would have to give a refund on about half the tariffs, which would be terrible for the Treasury. And argues President Trump just awful for America. That's one of the most important cases in the history of our country, because if we don't win that case, We will be a weakened, troubled financial mess for many, many years to come.

But Sarin says the economy is pretty resilient. I do think these tariffs are damaging to the economy, but I don't think it's appropriate to start to prognosticate about what type of downturn you're going to get as a result of any one particular policy, because invariably, you'll turn out to be inaccurate. As inaccurate, perhaps, as the predictions that tariff are. tariffs would quickly devastate the American economy. For the PBS News hour, Paul Salman. And an update now in the election results we've been following tonight.

The Associated Press has called the New Jersey governor's race for Democrat Mikey Sherrill. With just over 60 percent of the vote reported, the four-term Congresswoman has defeated Republican Jack Chitterelli with about 56 percent of. of the vote. And you can see the full results on our website. In their new book, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists Carol Lennox and Aaron Davis offer a deeply reported investigation into the decade-long unraveling of the U.S. Justice Department. They reveal how under Donald Trump the nation's top law enforcement agency was transformed from an institution built to protect the rule of law into one pressured to protect the president. The reporting exposes how the department already weakened by politics and fear

struggle to hold Mr. Trump accountable after the 2020 election and how those delays may have helped pave his path back to power. The book is Injustice, how politics and fear vanquished America's Justice Department, and we're joined now by Carol Lennig of MSNBC and Aaron Davis of the Washington Post. It's great to see you both. Thanks for having us, Jeff. So for anyone who has wondered how Donald Trump has so quickly transformed, reshaped, reimagined the Justice Department to serve his own political ends,

This book really answers that question. And Carol, it started well before the start of his second term. That's right, Jeff. You know, we were sort of, as reporters, Aaron and I were covering this in real time and saw Donald Trump target individual agents, you know, for humiliation, for public excoriation in his first presidency. But what we learned in the course of reporting this book is how much that targeting and that kind of bare-knuckles attack?

really scarred people inside the Justice Department, and in particular FBI agents who felt their careers had been tarnished, if not ruined, by him coming after them. And it changed the tenor of a Department of Justice and a, you know, mighty investigative arm, the FBI. It changed the tenor from one that pursued evidence of a crime without fear or favor to one that was on its back feet. Aaron, you report that Merrick Garland and Lisa Monaco took the mandate for independence so far that they slowed the January 6th and election interference investigations. Based on your conversations with career justice officials, did they ever perceive that Garland's caution amounted to dereliction? Well, you know, Garland came in and was

widely respected for his, you know, jurisprudence and the way he had been so even handed on the bench as a federal judge for decades. And, you know, they were hopeful that they would set a new tone. And he really did from the get-go. You know, Merrick Garland was the guy who had actually written some of the rules about separation between the White House and DOJ and trying to keep things on the straight and narrow, much as, you know, DOJ had done after Watergate. But there was this kind of growing concern inside the department by many, not just low ranks,

but mid-ranks and some people very senior, that the Department of Justice was moving too slow. And Merrick Goleyn has set out this mandate that we're going to start from the ground up. We're going to build this case up from the rioters, from the video that you can see, and we'll get to the top. But, you know, there was already evidence that they were not looking at from the very get-go, and that was where the, including the fake elector documents that had been submitted even before January 6th. And it ultimately took 15 months for DOJ and FBI to get on the first.

the same page under Garland and agreed us begin to investigate those. There is extensive reporting on the two federal cases that once faced Donald Trump, the election interference case and the classified documents case. Carol, how do you assess the former special counsel Jack Smith's core gamble that the strength of the evidence in the classified documents case would overcome the weakness of the venue, given the concerns that Judge Eileen Cannon would ultimately derail that case as she, in fact, ended up doing. You know, I want to emphasize that special counsel, Jack Smith, brought case two indictments

of an unprecedented nature involving a former president in record speed. The way he prosecuted those cases in a sprint was stunning. But here's the gamble that you asked about. Inside his office, there was dissension about whether or not he really should do what was legally the strongest potential way of pursuing the case. legally the most clear cut, which was to charge in Florida. In fact, a national security supervisor named David Newman, when he heard Jack Smith's presentation on behalf of the Deputy Attorney General and the Attorney General, when he heard Jack Smith say, we're going to

bring these charges in Florida, he said, your biggest risk is you get canon and then this case is dead. And it was an eerie foreshadowing and an accurate forecast of exactly what happened. And Jack Smith's team believed that there was a one-and-six chance that they might draw Eileen Cannon, who had already shown herself to favor Trump and ignore scads of court precedent. So they knew she was a risk. Later on, Jack Smith's team discovered their calculations were wrong. They had a one-and-three chance of getting canon. There is no way we can know what would have happened if they had brought this case in D.C.

What we know is that it collapsed because of the decision to go to Florida. And there is the question of what remains. Aaron, you say that veteran DOJ officials truly believe the department may not recover in our lifetimes. What specific damage underpins that warning? Well, there's a couple of buckets of things. For one, so many senior prosecutors, FBI agents, the people who had worked their way up through decades, those decades of experience are gone. There are scores and scores of prosecutors, hundreds of agents who have all left since the

beginning of this administration, many under pressure to do so. And just that body of institutional knowledge, there's been a huge brain drain inside the FBI and how they practice in protecting us, and as well as in the DOJ, with that experience that understanding of this is how we build cases, this is how we do it, this how we do it fairly, and all that's changed. also just a, there are so many people being brought in now who are, you know, being asked and under a certain sense, there's a loyalty test we've written in the book, was administered to people who brought in at the senior ranks of the FBI, whether they supported Donald

Trump or not. And so that's just a very different way of people being promoted inside the OJ right now. And I think there's a real concern that we're just entering an era where politics and prosecutions could be mixed. And also, there's just no sense. seeming into this at the moment, because what does the next administration do when they come in? If it's a Democratic one, do they keep the same people in place as it has been the stark standard of 10 years for the FBI director? Or do they purge and bring in their own people? And then do you

continue to weaken and just have an increasingly political body of people working inside the Department of Justice? And Carol, the loss of expertise, the loss of institutional knowledge, how does that weaken this country's defenses against terrorism and espionage? You know, Jeff, I kind of And a hair on my back of my neck goes up when you ask the question, because I'm thinking about some of the rooms that Aaron and I have been in with sources. People who don't talk to the press normally, the DOJ, you know, many of your viewers know, is a very opaque institution. It's secretive.

It keeps its own counsel. It doesn't share things unless it's in public court filings. But these people who lean conservative and careful and don't talk and squawk about their work are now coming to us and talking because they are basically crying for help. They're saying this is a five-alarm fire. That the next terror attack, they're not sure that they're as prepared. In fact, they feel certain they're not as prepared as they were a year ago with the lack of expertise that's gone.

One person said to me, you know, there is no imaginary security blanket around America. It's made up with these people with this expertise, and they are, as Aaron said, gone. The book is Injustice, How Politics and Fear Vanquished America's Justice Department. It's out today. Carol Enig, Aaron Davis, always great to see you. Thank you again for joining us. Thanks, Jeff. Dick Cheney, one of the most influential and polarizing vice presidents in American history, has died at the age of 84.

alongside then President George W. Bush for two terms, which saw the 9-11 attacks and the start of two major wars. In a statement today, President Bush wrote, quote, Dick was a calm and steady presence in the White House amid great national challenges. Cheney's family said he passed away yesterday due to complications from pneumonia, along with cardiac and vascular disease. John Yang looks back at his life and legacy with this report. As President George W. Bush's number two, Dick Cheney emerged as one of the most powerful and controversial vice presidents to date. The eight years he was in office were some of the most consequential in American history. The 9-11 attacks, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the war on terror.

Cheney was at the center of it all. I basically was given pretty much free reign to get involved in whatever I wanted to get involved in, participate in the meetings I wanted to participate in. He was most involved in national security, especially. the controversial Iraq war, Cheney led the effort to convince the American public of a contentious argument. Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us. When no weapons of mass destruction were found, Cheney was unapologetic.

So no regrets about Iraq. I think we made exactly the right decisions. Richard Bruce Cheney was born in Nebraska and grew up in Wyoming. He went to Yale University on a full scholarship, but flunked out, twice. He eventually got his bachelor's and master's degrees in Wyoming. He was pursuing his Ph.D. with an eye on an academic career when a one-year fellowship on Capitol Hill changed the direction of his life. In time, he became President Gerald Ford's White House Chief of Staff at 34, the youngest ever. He was so low-key, his Secret Service code name was Backseat.

Following Ford's loss to Jimmy Carter in 1976, Cheney returned to Wyoming to run for the state's lone U.S. House seat. During that campaign, Cheney had his first heart attack when he was just 37. For the next three decades, he struggled with coronary artery disease, four more heart attacks and quadruple bypass surgery before a 2012 heart transplant. Back then, his wife Lynn stood in until he could reserve. campaigning. He won with 59 percent of the vote, the smallest margin of his seven election wins. His amiable, moderate personality cloaked the positions of a staunch conservative, four cutting taxes and more defense spending, and against abortion and gun laws. He rose in the leadership, and in 1988, was elected Whip, the number two House Republican. He wasn't in the

job long. After the Senate rejected John Tower to be President George H.W. Bush's defense Secretary, the new president turned to Cheney. He's a thoughtful man, a quiet man, a strong man, approaches public policy with vigor, determination, and diligence. Despite a lack of military experience, he got five Vietnam War draft deferments. He sailed through the Senate 92 to nothing. At the Pentagon, Cheney quickly asserted himself, bypassing more than a dozen more senior generals to select Colin Powell to be Joint Chiefs Chairman, the first black person and the

youngest in that job. Together, they oversaw the U.S. invasion of Panama, the pivot from Cold War footing, and the first Iraq war after Iraqi President Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. As U.S. forces gathered in Saudi Arabia in August 1990, Cheney explained the U.S. interested stake on the news hour. We're there because if Saddam Hussein, who is, I would argue, a far more frightful creature than most rulers you'll find any place in the world a day were to take control of the world's supply of energy with his enormous military capability, with the prospect he would acquire nuclear weapons, that he would have a strangled hold on the economy of the United States and the rest of the world, and we cannot afford that. That's why we're there.

It took U.S. forces just 100 hours to drive Iraq out of Kuwait. President Bush rejected calls to push on to Baghdad and topple Hussein. We had an objective. We achieved our objective, and we weren't going any further. After Bush was defeated for re-election by Bill Clinton in 1992, Cheney briefly considered running for president. The more I thought about it, the more I decided this is not something for me. Instead, he became the head of Halliburton, one of the world's biggest oil services firms. His time there drew scrutiny during the 2003 Iraq War when Halliburton got multi-billion-dollar Pentagon contracts. Questions were raised, but no evidence of wrongdoing was ever uncovered.

Cheney's return to public service was unexpected. In July 2000, he arrived at George W. Bush's Texas ranch with two binders of research into potential running mates that Bush had asked him to gather. It turns out there was no need. Bush asked Cheney to join the ticket. Gradually, I realized that the person who was best qualified to be my vice presidential nominee was working by my side. Years later, Cheney acknowledged that he was an unconventional choice.

a 60-year-old with heart disease. If health was the only criteria, you know, go get a 30-year-old. That's not what he was after, but what he was after was somebody with experience. Especially the foreign policy experience in the years operating the levers of power in Washington. Both things Bush lacked. During the drawn-out Florida recount that decided the election, Cheney assembled a team that would become the next Bush administration. He also suffered his fourth heart attack. Just eight months into the new presidency, everything changed with the September 11th attacks.

All of a sudden, the door to my office burst open. And one of my agents, a secret service agent named Jimmy Scott, came bursting in, grabbed the back of my belt, and literally lifted me out of the chair and propelled me out of the room. President Bush was in the air after visiting an elementary school in Florida, and communications with Air Force One were spotty. In the Underground White House Emergency Operations Center, it was Cheney, others turned to, for decisions. At one point, an airliner appeared to be heading toward the White House. An Air Force official asked if it should be shot down.

And I said, yes, I gave that order. I couldn't take a poll. I didn't have time to call the president. If it was going to happen, it was going to happen very fast. So I never hesitated. In the following days, he played a central role in shaping the U.S. response. The weekend after the attacks, he spoke with Tim Russard on NBC's Meet the Press. We also have to work, though, sort of the dark side, if you will.

We've got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly without any discussion. Intelligence identified Osama bin Laden as being behind the attacks. A month after 9-11, U.S. forces went to war in Afghanistan to root him out. We will hold those who harbor terrorists, those who provide sanctuary to terrorists, responsible for their acts. Troops defeated the Taliban, but bin Laden slipped across the border to Pakistan. Then, more controversially, the administration turned its attention to Iraq, and Cheney again

had a leading role in a military operation against Saddam Hussein. On Meet the Press, he predicted another quick triumph. Asked by moderator Tim Russert if he thought Americans were prepared for a long battle with many U.S. casualties, Cheney said, I don't think it's likely to unfold that way, because I really do believe we will be greeted as liberators. Hussein was toppled in just three weeks, but U.S. forces remained in Iraq for eight years. More than 3,400 troops were killed in hostilities and nearly 32,000 wounded. As suspected terrorists were captured on the battlefield,

Cheney endorsed so-called enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding. Techniques we came up with, up to an including waterboarding, and that was the most significant, but specifically had been deemed not to constitute torture and therefore to be within the safeguards of our international agreements. Not everybody agreed with that, but we did it by the book. A 2014 Senate Intelligence Committee report concluded the techniques did not yield any significant intelligence. As the 2004 election approach, Cheney had become a lightning rod for criticism. He offered to step down from the ticket, an offer Bush said he considered but rejected. In the second term, Cheney said his role was diminished.

In the last term, especially given my general view of the world, and I was more hawkish than most, that the president didn't accept my advice as much as he had. in the first term. Bush and Cheney's relationship, always more professional than personal, was strained in the closing days of the administration over the president's refusal to pardon longtime Cheney AIDS Scooter Libby. He'd been convicted of lying to a grand jury during an FBI investigation into the leak of a CIA operatives name.

Returning to private life, Cheney became a fierce critic of President Barack Obama, and during the next administration, he backed his elder daughter, Representative Liz Cheney, when And she criticized President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. There has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. When Trump ran for president again in 2024, Cheney, a lifelong Republican, cast his final vote for another member of the vice president's club, Democrat Kamala Harris. He said citizens have a duty to put country above partisanship.

Once one of the most powerful Republican voices, Cheney was ostracized within the party and dismissed by Trump as an irrelevant rhino, a Republican in name only. While he was vice president, Cheney's health had deteriorated. In 20-ton, he suffered sudden cardiac arrest. An episode his cardiologist said likely would have killed him if not for an implanted defibrillator. After a 20-month wait for a suitable donor, Cheney had a heart transplant. He restored his health and allowed him to spend time with his grandchildren and return to two favorite pastimes, fly fishing and hunting. Before the transplant, Cheney underwent a nine-hour surgery.

Coming out of sedation, he recalled a dream. I had very vivid memories of being in Italy in a little village north of Rome, living in a nice villa. And the family asked me afterwards, Dad, were we with you? And I said, no, it wasn't the right answer. But I was at peace. At Peace also describes Cheney's feelings about the controversies that make up so much of his legacy. For the PBS News Hour, I'm John Yang. And another election night update before we go.

Democrat Zoran Mamdani will be the next mayor of New York City, defeating independent candidate and former governor, Andrew Cuomo. With 85% of the vote reported, the Democratic Socialist, has over. half the vote. And that is the NewsHour for tonight. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Amna Nawaz. On behalf of the entire News Hour team, thank you for joining us.