PBS News Hour - Full Show - October 3, 2025 – PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Friday on the News Hour, Hamas agrees to release all Israeli hostages in response to President Trump's proposal, but says more negotiations are needed on the plan to end the war. The Senate once again fails to pass a measure to reopen the government. Plus, the shutdown threatens an already strained air traffic control system with employees required to work without pay. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Good evening. I'm Jeff Bennett. I'm the Navazz is on assignment. On the news hour tonight, Hamas agrees to release all Israeli hostages in response to President Trump's proposal, but says more negotiations are needed on the plan to end the war. The federal government shutdown threatens an already strained air traffic control system with employees required to work without pay. Every single day that this goes, it's more stress on their back. It's an unnecessary distraction that needs to end. And a public arts project aims to prevent the collapse of one of the nation's natural wonders, the Great Salt Lake. We start to care about it. We start to, you know, demand that our representatives care about it. They start to hold, you know, industry accountable.

That's the idea. Welcome to the News Hour. Tonight, President Trump is demanding that Israel end the war in Gaza. A short time after Hamas announced, it had agreed to Mr. Trump's proposal to release all Israeli hostages held in Gaza. But the militant group responsible for the deadly October 7th attacks against Israel nearly two years ago did not agree to all of the president's framework. Our Nick Schifrin is here tracking all of this. So, Nick, what is President Trump demanding tonight?

Well, as you said, Jeff, just in the last hour, the President of United States made a dramatic demand of Israel on true social writing, quote, Israel must immediately stop the bombing of Gaza so that we can get the hostages out safely and quickly. That is the first time that either President Biden or President Trump publicly demanded that Israel stopped the war since October the 7th. And as you said, the President's demand comes after Hamas' reply to the framework that President Trump and President Trump and President. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released from the White House earlier this week. So let's take a look at how Hamas replied to that. First, Hamas's first point, quote, the movement announces the agreement to release all living and dead hostages

according to the exchange formula contained in President Trump's proposal. So as a reminder, that framework is to release 20 living hostages and the bodies of 30 deceased hostages released all up front. And then you see the second point right there. Hamas renews its agreement to hand over the administration, of Gaza to a Palestinian body of independence technocrats. Now, I emphasize Palestinian will come back to that point. The president is clearly focused, Jeff, on these two relatively positive parts of the Hamas statement.

Because there's a third part of what Hamas said, and it is a huge but, quote, the other issues in the framework are linked to a comprehensive national position there to be discussed within a comprehensive Palestinian national framework. So what does that mean? It means that Hamas is not agreeing to key parts of this deal. Regional officials have been telling me for days that Hamas is not agreeing to demilitarize. And you see video of Hamas from earlier this year during a ceasefire. Hamas will not demilitarize until it talks to the other Palestinian militant groups.

And that is not a guarantee that it's going to agree. And of course, that is a key, a key demand that Israel is making. Secondly, regional officials also told me that Hamas had questions about the map. You see it right there, where and exactly when Israeli troops will withdraw to and when Hamas has to release the hostages. Thirdly, tonight a political Hamas official says that they will not allow a non-Palestinian to control Gaza. And of course, Jeff, as we talked about, the president's plan calls for a board of peace to transition power in Gaza with the president himself and former prime minister of Britain, Tony Blair, as the head of that board.

So these are huge questions that Hamas is asking, including ones that will lead Israel not to be happy with Hamas' reply, not to accept Hamas' reply, but President Trump is taking Hamas' answer as yes, and putting Israel in an extraordinary way to stop the war. So then the question becomes, where does all of this leave Netanyahu? It's a very good question, and I think one of the two key questions that we have tonight.

The first one is how far is President Trump willing to go to pressure Netanyahu? White House officials have told me in the past that he, President Trump, has not been happy with Netanyahu and that he did pressure Netanyahu earlier this week to accept the terms of the deal. And he wants to see this war over full stop. Will that translate now into President Trump, for example,

saying, hey, we will withhold arms, for example, to Netanyahu. Netanyahu, however, has his own political considerations. He has to go to an election within one year. The right wing of his coalition certainly has already criticized this peace proposal that Netanyahu agreed to earlier this week, and they will put pressure on Netanyahu to resist President Trump's plans. Look, we've seen pressure privately, mostly, from Trump on Netanyahu and his top aides, and Netanyahu and his top aides in the past have managed to figure out a way to persuade Trump more to their perspective.

So certainly they will try to do that once again this time. But at the end of the day, it is up to President Trump how much he will pressure Netanyahu in this moment to actually end the war, how much he will pressure Netanyahu to consider the Samas reply good enough, and then will Netanyahu listen. Nick Schifrin, thank you so much for walking us through these developments. We appreciate it.

Thank you. After another day of deadlock, the U.S. Senate adjourned for the weekend, extending the government shutdown into next week. Democrats are holding out for Republicans to make health care concessions to their spending bill. But until lawmakers figure out a way forward, thousands of federal workers are left worrying about their paychecks and looming mass. layoffs. Our White House correspondent Liz Landers has more. It's day three of the government shutdown. The motion upon reconsideration is not agreed to. And no end in sight after the Senate again failed to pass a stopgap spending bill and then left town for the weekend. You can see it's pretty empty around here. Speaker Mike Johnson reiterating the same message he's had for the past

few days. He's willing to discuss health care, but not under the current circumstances. The subsidies that they're saying is the issue is not the issue. That is an issue for the end of the year. December 31 is when that expires. So Congress has three months to negotiate that. Certainly we could work on it in the month of October to find some consensus to figure that out, what reforms there may be necessary to make all that happen. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffrey is showing no signs of budging. Donald Trump and the Republicans are not behaving responsibly. They're not behaving in a serious manner. They don't want to reopen the government, and they certainly do not want to address the health care crisis that Republicans have created.

The president, who has not had any public appearances so far during the shutdown, instead taking to social media to call Democrats, quote, the party of hate, evil, and Satan. But his director of the Office of Management and Budget, usually an under-the-radar role, flexing his power to continue to target Democrat voting cities and states, announcing two infrastructure projects in Chicago are on hold. The $2.1 billion in federal funding for train extensions is paused to quote, ensure funding is not flowing via race-based contracting. Good afternoon, everyone. Speaking to reporters today, White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said again, mass layoffs are all but certain. The Office of Management and Budget is in constant communication and contact,

now with our cabinet secretaries and agencies across the board to identify, unfortunately, where layoffs have to be made and where cuts have to happen. But again, the Democrats have an opportunity to prevent this if they vote to reopen the government. As the week comes to a close, thousands of government workers remain off the job, bracing for a long shutdown without a paycheck. We are essentially paralyzed and without any way to fight back in a real time sense. April Goggins works for an agency under the Department of Health and Human Services. She's also a federal workers union leader and has hope that her fellow employees can make it through the shutdown however long it lasts.

They know that people are scared. They know that people want to come back because they want to work. They want to do the work that they're doing, but they also got to feed their families. I feel today more solid in my resolve to not let this. It's not going to break us. For the PBS News Hour, I'm Liz Landers. Roughly 750,000 federal employees were furloughed on Wednesday when the government closed its doors. Not included in that number, the more than 10,000 air traffic controllers nationwide who will continue to work without pay as long as the shutdown continues. And that has raised concerns about the strain on an already understaffed and overworked cohort responsible for the safe transit of 3 million American air travelers every day. For more, we're joined by Nick Daniels. He's president of the Air Traffic Controlers Union.

and thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. So what kind of stress and strain are air traffic controllers under, and how is this shutdown making it worse? Air traffic controllers are known in this country of having one of the most demanding and one of the most high-consequenced jobs in the entire world. They go to work day in and day out and five days is difficult enough.

They go to work six on most occasions, having to work 60 hours in a week, six days in that week, and then ultimately only having four days off at a month, and then you add in the uncertainty of when you're going to get paid again, and a government shut down on top of it, it's an unnecessary distraction that shouldn't be bare by the controllers that are doing an amazing job for the American people. And few people can afford to miss a paycheck. You've warned that air traffic controllers are having to pick up second jobs.

I mean, how real a concern is that? American workers are the same across. Air traffic controllers fall right in that same vein as all the other American workers. Most people are young, starting families, and they don't have that residual income. when you know your stream of income isn't going to be there, you have to start making very difficult decisions. Now, I want to make sure it's completely understood. Air traffic controllers are going to show up and do their job that Americans want every single day, which is keeping them safe. But yes, when we had a 35-day government shutdown and you saw that $0 paychecks were rolling in and you

needed to think about your family, taking care of medical bills, making sure that food was going to be on the table, some did start having to drive for Uber on the side. And that's something that Americans have said. We don't want our air traffic control. doing a side gig, we want them doing their primary job, and that's keeping people safe. Especially if they're working 60 hours a week already. Especially if they're working 60 hours a week, because that means they're going to their primary job in the day and then having to pick up a side job in the night and then try to get rest. And the government spent millions of dollars to help with fatigue, to help with

unnecessary distractions. We get regular training on these things, yet a government shutdown introduces every single one of them. The FAA says it's going to halt the field training and the hiring during the shutdown. There's an academy in Oklahoma that will stay open but using last year's funds. What's that mean for the pipeline of new controllers? Air traffic controllers go through a rigorous training at Oklahoma City, and I do commend Secretary Duffy, Administrator Bedford. They have come up with a way that's never been done in the past to ensure that Oklahoma City Academy does stay open. Right now, we're only operating the system with 10,800 controllers. This shutdown exacerbates in showing the issues of being critically

staffed, having unreliable equipment. But ultimately, we have training that goes on at our facility levels, that 2,350 people are furloughed that usually help conduct that training for air traffic controllers. So some training will get done. All the training won't. And this example is why these issues continue to rise in our career field. It's stop and go funding, government shutdowns. It just keeps putting us further behind and the issue further out. And beyond the shutdown, we have seen several safety lapses this past year. There was that deadly crash at Reagan National. There had been near misses. There was a runway collision just the other day at LaGuardia, repeated outages at Newark. We know the system needs an overhaul, but is enough being done to actually put

fixes in place? For the first time in my career, I've seen an actual investment in air traffic control. 12.5 billion. It's going to take about a $31 billion investment to eventually get it done. But we cannot slow down. We cannot have pauses like this. that are going to keep this problem going on longer. We need the investment now. We need to keep the government open, and that's our call. So open the government, let us do the job, and let us get everybody to work so we can truly bring this system up to the gold standard that American people deserve.

Can Americans feel safe flying right now and if this shutdown drags on? People can feel safe flying, but that's because of the men and women that I represent, the air traffic controllers that are shouldering this burden day in and day out. They'll go to work, they'll do the amazing job. They'll move 35,000 flights a day, 3,000. million people, the cargo associated with it. And every single day that this goes, it's more stress on their back. It's an unnecessary distraction that needs to end. We likely will, though, see delays and some cancellations. Delays and cancellations happen every day on a fragile system

that's already there right now. And I think the hyper focus will be from the media during the shutdown, and we'll get to see not because of just the shutdown itself, how fragile our system really is and why we need to continue investing in it. Nick Daniels, president of the Airman, Air Traffic Controlers Union. Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. We start the day's other headlines with what the Trump administration is calling its armed conflict with drug cartels. Defense Secretary Pete Hegeseth says U.S. forces destroyed a boat near Venezuela that he says was trafficking narcotics. He posted this video on social media saying that four narco terrorists were killed, but he offered no details on who they were or if they were affiliated with any group.

In his own social media post, President Trump said the boat was, quote, loaded with enough drugs to kill 25 to 50,000 people. This is the fourth such strike in the Caribbean this year, and it comes a day after President Trump declared drug cartels to be unlawful combatants. Officials in the U.K. say one of the two men killed in yesterday's attack on a Manchester synagogue may have been accidentally shot by police. They say preliminary forensic evidence found the victim's wound was, quote, consistent with a gunshot injury. Officers shot and killed the suspect after he rammed a car into pedestrians outside the synagogue and then attacked them with a knife. Police say he did not have a gun. Prime Minister Kier-Starmer visited Manchester police headquarters today, saying the incident would have been worse without their efforts.

I've been to the scene to pay my respects and to get a sense of what you were confronted with. I've also seen the body-worn cameras and the footage out of that. And I am absolutely clear in my mind as to the professionalism of the response, the speed of the response. Today, dozens of people attended a vigil for those lost in the attack in the pouring rain. the suspect has been identified as a 35-year-old British citizen of Syrian descent and the crime is being investigated as a terror attack. Also today, the Church of England named Sarah Malali to serve as the 106th Archbishop of Canterbury. The former cancer nurse will be the first woman to take the role in more than 1,400 years, leading more than 85 million Anglicans

worldwide. In a speech today, she thanked the women who came before her as pathbreakers. She extended a hand to the global Anglican community, and she promised to confront the church's abuse scandal, which she said left a legacy of deep harm and mistrust. In New York City, a judge sentenced Sean Diddy Combs to four years and two months in prison this afternoon. The disgraced hip-hop mogul was convicted in July on two prostitution-related charges, though he was acquitted on other charges that could have led to life in prison. During sentencing, the judge told him he would spend, quote, hard time in prison away from your family, friends, and community, but you will have a life afterward. Prior to sentencing, Combs had said he had nobody to blame

but himself, calling his behavior disgusting, shameful, and sick. Before that, he was seen wiping away tears as his children asked the judge for leniency. Combs has already spent more than a year in detention. Apple has removed an app from its store that lets users report sightings of U.S. immigration agents. Ice Block says it has one million users who anonymously monitor activity by ICE officers. Apple says the app and others like it were removed based on information we've received from law enforcement about the safety risks associated with ice block. Attorney General Pam Bondi claims the app was designed to, quote, put ICE agents at risk just for doing their jobs. Even though it's no longer available, it's still functional for

those who've already downloaded it. Firefighters in California managed to contain a massive blaze at a Chevron oil refinery outside Los Angeles earlier today. Flames from the blaze were visible for miles after it erupted yesterday at the El Segundo Refinery. City officials urged people to stay indoors, though there have been no reports of injuries and there's no current threat to public safety. Nearby residents described feeling a rumble yesterday before seeing the flames. It wasn't immediately clear what caused the fire. On Wall Street, today, stocks ended mixed to close out an otherwise strong week. The Dow Jones Industrial average added nearly 240 points on the day. The NASDAQ slipped around 60 points. The S&P 500

ended virtually flat. Still to come on the news hour, a preview of the major cases the U.S. Supreme Court is set to take up. David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart weigh in on the ongoing government shutdown. And a long-forgotten fruit finds new popularity. NewsHour from the David M. Rubinstein studio at WETA in Washington, and in the west from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University. On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court begins a new term following a summer-long recess, shaped by legal battles over the Trump administration's policy agenda. William Brangham has a preview of what's to come. That's right, Jeff. Cases are still being added to the docket. As the justices said

today, they'll hear a challenge to a Hawaii law that regulates where people can carry guns. The High Court is also set to hear a case involving the president's tariff policies and will rule on major issues like election maps, LGBTQ rights, and abortion. Joining us to break it all down is NewsHour Supreme Court analyst and SCOTUS blog co-founder Amy Howe, and Steve Lattuck, constitutional law professor at Georgetown University. So nice to see you both. Thanks for being here. Steve, officially, the term starts Monday, but it has been a very, very busy summer. The justice has been issuing rulings on the shadow docket.

Remind us what they have done vis-a-vis this administration. Gosh, how long do we have? I mean, just about two hours ago, as we're sitting here, the court handed down the latest, the 23rd consecutive ruling for President Trump granting emergency relief. This one clear in the way for Secretary Nome to cancel something called temporary protected status for Venezuelan migrants. We've seen rulings clearing the way for the elimination of transgender service members, clearing the way for the firing of all kinds of senior federal officers, of Department of Education employees, for the pocket rescissions of $4 billion of

foreign aid funding. I mean, it's, you know, it's really a stunning list of actions that the Supreme Court, usually through unsigned, unexplained orders, has let the Trump administration to continue and it's carried all the way up to this afternoon. Starting on Monday, when the term actually begins, there'll be some other major cases that they're ruling on with regards to the administration. The president's tariff policies, whether he can fire Lisa Cook from the Federal Reserve. What is at stake here for this administration? These are both really core parts of the president's agenda. The language in some of the briefs filed by John Sauer, who's the Solicitor General and the President's top lawyer at the Supreme Court.

In the tariffs case, it's in some ways, really kind of remarkable. There's language, and I'm not quoting verbatim here, but along the lines of how the tariffs and the negotiations that follow as a result of the tariffs have pulled the American economy back from the precipice. And so it's really, this is an issue that is really important to the president and his agenda. And then in the case of Lisa Cook, and this is the member of the Fed's Board of Governors, Trump has tried to fire her, he says, for cause, which he says was relates to mortgage fraud that she allegedly communicated. before becoming a governor, she's pushed back against those allegations. He has long criticized the Fed since he's been in office for failing to reduce interest rates. But then also it goes to the broader power to be able to fire the members of these independent agencies. He's also tried, had more success in firing Rebecca Slaughter, who's one of the members of the Federal Trade Commission.

And the Supreme Court will hear her case as well. Steve, as you said, the president had racked up quite a few successes before the court. Coming into this term, do you have a sense, maybe it's self-evident in what you were describing before, as to what kind of check the court is willing to put on a president who seems to really want to flex his executive muscle? I mean, William, this is the question. And I think if you look at the pattern of cases going back to April, the only real example we have of this court pushing back against the Trump administration was that Alien Enemies Act case from Texas and April,

what was different about that case? I think the only real difference was there. It wasn't that President Trump was defying a lower court. It wasn't that President Trump was defying Congress. It was that President Trump was on the verge of defying the Supreme Court. And so the pattern really seems to be that the justices will zealously guard their authority, even as they're not going to go out of their way to protect lower courts who are working night and day in these cases to protect.

Congress's prerogatives and the cases Amy mentioned, I think the question is, how much is that pattern going to continue as these merits cases become more and more part of the justices work? Amy, there's also a continuing trend of the court weighing in on LGBTQ cases, and there's one of the first cases they'll hear next week is deals with this, a ban on what's called conversion therapy. Tell us what's at stake in that case. So this is a case about Colorado's ban, as you say, on conversion therapy, which is therapy intended to change. someone's sexual orientation or gender identity. And Colorado and I think more than 20 other states

have similar laws. Saying that you can't do that therapy. You can't do this kind of therapy. And Colorado says, we enacted this ban because there is evidence that shows that such therapy is ineffective and it's harmful. It can lead to depression and anxiety and even suicide. And Colorado says, when we are regulating conversion therapy,

we are regulating medical treatment. The plaintiff in the case is a woman named Kaylee Giles, who is a professional counselor and also a practicing Christian. And she says, what they're doing here is they're regulating my speech because all I do is talk therapy. And so it's this issue of what is speech and what is conduct. But this is also the latest in a series of cases involving religious people and speech and, you know, LGBTQ people.

We had two cases earlier involving. the man who didn't want to make a cake for same-sex weddings, the woman who didn't want to make a website for same-sex marriages, and that was, you know, they felt that they were being compelled to speak. This is a woman who wants to speak, and the state, she says, is telling her that she can't. Steve, it is Chief Justice John Roberts' 20th anniversary on the court, and he has had some competing inspirations for how he wants to run that court.

How do you see him handling this coming term? Sure, I mean, I think it's a dominant role. John Roberts' court, and that's true, not just in name, it's true, I think, behind the scenes as well. If you look at the voting patterns in the most important cases the court's deciding, in the Trump-related cases, he's very seldom in dissent. And I think that's especially true when the courts splits ideologically. It's going to come down to where the chief justice is, where Amy Coney-Barrant is. And, you know, that really is complicated because you have John Roberts, who is a staunch defender of executive power, who probably is okay with a lot of the

legal theories animating at least some of President Trump's actions. versus John Roberts, the institutionalist, who cares deeply about how the Supreme Court is perceived, who wants the court to still be venerated in the years and decades to come, I think this term is going to be very much a referendum on him and how he behaves, I think, will be very much the answer to where we are a year from now.

And Amy, how do you see him coming down on that? Champion of a vigorous executive or someone who doesn't want his court to be seen as a partisan actor? I think he will lean more. He was someone who worked in the White House as a year, young lawyer and worked in the Department of Justice, I think he leans more toward executive power. You know, there's always the conventional wisdom that he is an institutionalist and cares about the Supreme Court. But I do think when push comes to shove, so to speak, he's more likely

to be on the side of executive power. I think that this court will generally continue to move to the right. I think that there may be cases this term. We have not talked, for example, about one case that is not yet on the docket officially, but almost certainly will be. And that's the challenge to the constitutionality of the president's order on birthright citizenship. And, you know, all of the courts that have considered that the order have overwhelmingly ruled that it is unconstitutional so far. So that seems like one in which perhaps the Trump administration may not prevail or it may be close. But in general, I think that the court will continue to move to the right. All right. Amy Howe, Steve Vladak, so good to see you both. Thank you.

Thank you. During this government shutdown, President Trump is turning his attention to funding earmarked for projects in Democratic states. To break down the implications and offer some perspective, we're joined tonight by Brooks and New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC. It's always great to see you both. So Jonathan, Democrats have long railed against shutdowns, but many of those same Democrats, Democrats are now backing this one. Senator Schumer, who was on this program back in March, he said the country avoided disaster when he voted to keep the government open. Republicans are calling that out and saying it's hypocritical. In your view, why isn't it?

Well, one, we're talking about a shutdown caused by Republicans not wanting to do something on health care. You can argue whether this is the time to do it. Democrats have decided this is the time to do it, especially since letters are going out next month to consumers on the American Affordable Care Act exchanges that their premiums are going to go up. And then they're going to go up starting in the new year. And so Democrats are saying, well, we've got to do something to help the American people,

and Republicans basically say, no. And I'm sorry, at the same time that they're saying, no, they're also saying, just trust us, let's just reopen the government, and then we'll talk. about this. The problem with that is, one, Democrats don't trust them, nor should they. Two, there are so many other things that Republicans have to, that Congress has to get done in the seven weeks before the end of the year, the NDAA, which is a must pass defense bill. Appropriations

bills. Punchball reported this morning that there have been no talks between Democrats and Republicans about the appropriations bills that will be needed to fund the government once they get past this. And so you think that Republicans, that Democrats should trust Republicans, that they're going to take care of it later? No. And so I think that, you know, we can argue whether this is the good time to do this and whether Democrats should do it. I argue Democrats absolutely should do it because they're doing it for all the right reasons. And one of those reasons Democrats say is about extending Obamacare subsidies with premium set to skyrocket. Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, he shared this example on social media, a Georgian earning

$65,000 a year would see premiums jump from about $300 a month to over $950 a month. David, shouldn't the party that controls the House, the Senate, and the White House do more to end a shutdown than just dig in? No. I hate the fact that we're here. So here's what happened. In 2020, the Democrats were an election, and they have power. And so in 2021, they passed a bill which further increased the health insurance subsidies as part of Obama.

care. And when they did it, they passed it to sunset in 2025. In 2024, the Republicans win an election. And guess what? They pass legislation that go with their policy priorities, and they let the subsidies sunset. And so what do you do if you're in a democracy? You go to the voters, if you're a Democrat, and you say, their policy is terrible. What Senator Warnock just said, their policy is terrible next time, why don't you vote for us? That's how a democracy functions. But apparently we don't live in a functioning democracy anymore. Now, if we don't like the policy that the majority party passes, we shut down the government. And I'm not playing Democrats solely, but I just think this pattern is so terrible for our democracy, is so terrible, but we just

hear it for their traffic controllers in every organization. You can imagine if your own organization suddenly lost all funding every once in a while. And what it does is it further erodes the norms that really control our democracy so we don't, we're not, we can have a boxing match in politics. Politics ain't beanbag. But we don't bring a knife and we don't bring a gun

and we don't bring AK-47, who would be. And that's what our politics is descending into and it's very bad for democracy. Elections have consequences. They do have consequences, but descending into, we're there. I mean, that road is rutted. And you want to go back in history,

let's talk about, you know, eroding norms. Senator Mitch McConnell, when he was a majority leader, stole a Supreme Court seat and said it should be up to the American people to decide the next president and that person gets to pick the Supreme Court justice, successfully kept it from then Judge Ameri Garland. But then, when the shoe was on the other foot

and President Trump was in the White House, what did he do? Ram through Justice Amy Coney-Barritt a week before the election. So we're already deep into this rutted place that we're in. Wait two months. Two months. Is there an opening here for Democrats on this particular issue of health care? Because that helped them flip, what was it, 40 seats back in 2018 when the Republicans tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Does that resonate the same way in the shutdown? Well, I think it will resonate maybe not in the short term, but I think politically speaking, just in craft terms, political terms, that when those letters go out next month and then when the premiums, When people get those bills starting in January, folks will forget about the shutdown, assuming the government has been reopened, but they will remember, oh, wait, Democrats were hammering away at this, they were complaining about this during that time. And I think, again, in crass political terms, this could iner to Democrats' benefit, could. If you were advising the White House, the David Brooks consultancy, what would you tell them to do? How should they handle this?

I would sell them all to resign, but, you know, I put myself in their shoes, not what David Brooks wants, as important as that is, but what MAGA wants. And so they're a part of a conservative movement that for the last 50 years has said government is too big, the left has too much control. And they have wanted to defund the left since Ronald Reagan. And they haven't really done it. Donald Trump comes in in term two and starts to do it under Doge. That sort of calms down after Elon Musk leaves town and all the tech bros go back to Silicon. Valley. But now, Russell Vought, the budget director, is going to restart the engines, and he's going to restart them in a way that we have never seen before. He's been waiting his whole life at this

moment. And I do not think that giving him the keys to the kingdom is a smart idea. But if you're MAGA and you've been trying to pursue a 40-year project to defund the left, you're going to take advantage of this moment. And so a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. And what MAGA gets right is that the civil service is somewhat left. But what they get wrong is they're not very left. Most of them are good, hardworking, honest people just want to do their job. And Russell Vought is about to take a chain saw to them.

What about that, Jonathan? The president, Russ Votes, seeing opportunity in this moment. I think President Trump used the phrase unprecedented opportunity to dismantle government, to defund the left, as David says. They're already doing it. They've been doing it. They've already promised to, what, fire 140,000 workers. And so they're taking advantage of a crisis.

Anyone who thinks that the administration from the president to Russell vote, that they will have a, you know, some sort of pang of conscience and, you know, keep federal workers where they are, are fooling themselves. It's right there in Project 2025. The 900-page document that then candidate Trump tried to disavow and said, I have nothing to do with it. And then this week, if not yesterday, sends out of truth social posts saying, you know, Russell vote is going to do this. he of Project 2025 fame? Anyone who has read Project Project 2025 is not surprised by anything that has happened since January 20th. It's right there in black and white. One of the most striking moments of the weekend of President Trump's second

term so far was this unprecedented gathering of top military brass. He had the president, the defense secretary, gathered in Virginia. Pete Heg-Seth, the defense secretary said the goal was to restore the warrior ethos. The president spoke for more than an hour. Here's some of what the both of them said. The era of politically correct, overly sensitive, don't hurt anyone's feelings. Leadership ends right now.

No more identity months, DEI offices, dudes in dresses. No more climate change worship. It's tiring to look out at combat formations or really any formation and see fat troops. While America is under invasion from within, we're under invasion from within. We were not respected with Biden. They looked at him falling downstairs every day. Every day, the guy's falling downstairs.

We should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military. What lessons should we draw from that? Are there any parallels to the way the president, the defense secretary are seeking to use the military? Well, that's all show business. These two guys are TV personalities, not that there's anything wrong with that, but they're using the troops as show business. And what do they care about when they think about the Department of Defense or whatever we're calling it these days? They think about dudes and dresses, DEI, and fat troops. China is not thinking about that stuff.

They are out deploying us in submarines. They're out deploying us in military technology. They've got more troops. They've got more spending. and they are a world threat. And if something terrible happens in the last two years, next two years, people are going to look at this rally, said, what the hell were those guys talking about?

And to me, it's just the incredible shallowness and triviality of that kind of showbiz performance. Is this the moment that accelerates the erosion of the longstanding norm of an apolitical military? I don't know if it's the moment, simply because, you know, I think maybe the president wanted to, you know, jump in on this meeting because he's used to going to the military academies

where the troops are a little less trained in how they are supposed to act and respond to political speeches and particularly to the president. And I seem to remember, I think it was the Naval Academy where you had the cadets behind him hooting and hollering and cheering and applauding and laughing. But the folks in that room at the Pentagon

were not cadets. They were generals and admirals. with decades worth of experience. And they know that their job is to be apolitical, no matter who the president is. And the series of one-liners that they both threw out there thinking they were going to get applause, and they didn't, certainly unsettled the president,

probably unsettled the defense secretary, but it didn't unsettle me because it told me that the senior leadership of the military, the folks in uniform still hold true to their training and what their role is in our democracy. And I don't want to let one of the comments that was said in that Sotmash of the president where he said he should use American cities as training grounds.

The most dangerous thing I have heard, among many things, come out of the president's mouth, that he's telling those admirals and generals that they should have their troops who are trained, to fight wars and kill other people in other countries on battlegrounds that they should turn their guns on American citizens. It's appalling, and I wish we had a Congress that worked

that would say, you know, you know what, we need to bring some people in and have some hearings on this, because this is unacceptable. It's undemocratic. And I was going to raise that point, the incitement to violence against Americans from the president there. Yeah, I mean, I happen to live right where the National Guardsmen are walking around every day, And I frankly don't mind them. They're nice.

They look bored. But Jonathan's right on the overall message. There's a reason military people are not police people. And police are making a mistake of trying to be too military, frankly. And so to cross that line where you have people who are actually trained to shoot howitzers walking around Park Avenue or Grant Park in Chicago, it's just, it's crossing the line. David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart. Have a good weekend.

Thanks, Jeff, you too. As the Great Salt Lake in Utah continues to dry up, the arts community there has mobilized to lay bare the major ecological, economic, and health stakes if the decline continues. Some have called this an environmental nuclear bomb of toxic dust, harming people and industries. that rely on the lake. A public arts project called Wake the Great Salt Lake aims to educate and inspire residents and visitors alike. Our senior arts correspondent Jeffrey Brown took a look for our arts and culture series, Canvas. So that's Antelope Island out there. You see that? A summer day at the Great Salt Lake, a natural wonder with prehistoric roots, long and idyllic place to observe wildlife, attracting locals and visitors.

from all over. But in recent years, the largest saltwater lake in the western hemisphere has been ailing. We're on the precipice. You're very, very close to an ecosystem that is collapsing. Biologist Bonnie Baxter is director of the Great Salt Lake Institute at Westminster University in Salt Lake City. She says excessive water diversion for agriculture in cities and a long-term mega drought exacerbated by climate change and reduced precipitation, have created a crisis in which public health is being threatened by toxic dust from the flat-dry lake bed or playa containing arsenic and other heavy metals. We're next to a metropolitan center and the public health dangers of breathing this

playa dust is terrible. So as we expose these shorelines, the dust can become airborne and really impact the air quality. And the ecosystem hangs in the the balance. We've worked to balance the salinity to help the life and the lake that feeds all over the birds survive. Ten million birds depend on this ecosystem. It's so important that it's probably the most important body of water on the whole Pacific flyway.

Enter the Wake the Great Salt Lake Public Art Challenge. A project to raise public awareness and perhaps mobilize a resource. a response through art placed throughout the city. 125 applications were called to 12, multidisciplinary projects, as well as events and workshops, with scientists including Baxter, consulting with artists along the way. Felicia Baca is executive director of the Salt Lake City Arts Council, part government agency, part nonprofit. We believe that the arts are a universal language that can provide access and understanding

to residents. It's a language that is approachable for many residents where, you know, data and science may not be. And while the project is founded in data and science and education, we really think that arts create an emotional connection and they're a place for like unity and coming together and gathering. And those are the kind of conditions in which you build and engage to us and re. That engagement included dance. novelty, the excitement of a new environment. A museum exhibit, Vanishing Waters' Rising Voices, an installation by a thread inside the Utah State Capitol, and a pop-up water school structure for all to see, learn, and engage with.

Let's do that, but I want to, like, draw it in. Building and engaged citizenry is just what muralist Trevor Dahl was after when he launched his art activation after consulting scientists and native. of American community leaders about the delicate balance of the lake. Some depictions of these creatures that are lovable and so whether you get the message about the mural or anything, you can kind of say like, oh, those brine shrimp are so cute, you know, or like, I don't know, just a way to like anthropomorphize the lake a little bit. We start to care about it.

We start to, you know, demand that our representatives care about it. start to hold, you know, industry accountable, and that's the idea. I mean, a mural in a small parking lot by itself doesn't do anything. Yeah. But it's that chain you're talking about. Right. You know, it's part of a wave, and we're all, as artists, doing our best to help the cause, you know. Across town at SpyHop and after-school youth media art center, students designed and printed

digital zines, handmade and self-published. A way to reach and teach others about the ongoing crisis. Recent high school grads Josie Callahan and Eddie Mett spoke of the personal stakes for themselves and for a lake that's a commercial source of magnesium, lithium, lithium, and other mineral compounds. It affects our food. It affects our phones. It affects our air. It affects our water.

And it affects our bills. When I learn about things and start caring about them, the biggest factor is usually how it affects me and the people I love. So I thought talking about how this does matter and it will affect you and it will change your life. You should care. It felt very important to me. My own personal experience of like sort of climate and like environmental anxiety. I was like I need to have something that can be sort of convenient. Very specific. What can we do? Not everyone is aware of like the people who are kind of taking the most advantage of our water usage.

An installation titled Hopeline was reaching the public in perhaps the most interactive way of any work in the project through a pop-up old phone booth in which passers-by could hear the sounds of the lake's birds and waves. And stories left by others. You know, you're the last shard of the ocean here. And since I grew up by the ocean, It feels like a glimpse of home every time I see you.

While also leaving their own stories. Three artists behind Hopeline, friends who grew up together in Salt Lake City, say the problem, including regular dust storms, is so acute they're considering leaving their hometown, a place they love. I think the New York Times put it as like an environmental nuclear bomb. That's how you feel. At times, I think you're reminded of it when you do see these dust storms coming into town. Yeah.

that maybe it's not worth potentially buying real estate here. You mean like you might have to leave at some point? Definitely. Still, for this project, they decided to offer a sense of hope. And that's what they heard from others. I think a lot of people will bring love into it, right? And maybe that has hope in it. If you love something, there's hope for it, right?

So a lot of people will just say, like, I love you, Great Salt Lake. And that has been really endearing to me just to hear so many people say, I love you, Great Salt Lake. What does it all add up to? Scientists Bonnie Baxter continues to push for public policy changes. But she's also a firm believer that art and artists have a role to play. Scientists can communicate to the public, but maybe we don't get the attention of everybody, right? And so to have artists at the table to help express this crisis in a more visceral way, people wake up and they listen.

For the PBS News Hour, I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Great Salt Lake in Utah. Apples, oranges, and bananas are sold in abundance in supermarkets across the country, but some say the most American fruit is one you'll likely never see in the produce department, and it's one you've probably never heard of. The Pawpaw. Our Dima Zane bites into the long history of this forgotten fruit. Happy Papa Sunday. In Southeast Ohio, a 27-year tradition has taken root.

An annual celebration of a little-known fruit with a cult following. Have you had a Papa? Here in Appalachia, the Paw-Paw is sort of like, I'd say one of the stars of the native plants that we have. There's a seed in there. Chris Schmiel is the founder of the Ohio Paw-Paw Festival, where this star is center stage. In events like the Pawpaw cook-off. I'm kind of struggling with picking up on notes of Papa. And a range of Papa-inspired swag and refreshments from Papa T-shirts and pottery to pop-up beer

and even a Papa iced mashaw latte with oat milk. For Schmiel, the festival is meant in part to spread the word about this lesser-known native fruit. When somebody gets a chance to eat a papa at the right time and they have that you know initial like whoa it's just a good hook that instant surprise comes from an unexpected taste that many find hard to peg I would describe the taste of a pawpaw kind of like a mango maybe with a little bit of papaya or stone fruit like fresh grapes off of a vine nature's own banana mango smoothie I described the pawpaw flavors as a tropical custard because there's a lot of diversity in the flavors and that has to do with genetics but also ripeness and where they're grown. This tropical tasting fruit grows wild

across a vast stretch of the eastern United States from the panhandle of Florida and up into Michigan. Eaton and celebrated by Native American tribes, there's evidence that indigenous people are responsible for the abundance of Paw Paw today. There's thought that people in the Ohio River Valley had been selectively breeding or certainly selecting good-tasting pop-paw for thousands of years. And perhaps that is a reason why some of the best pawpaws came from the Ohio River Valley and parts of the Midwest. Andrew Moore is the author of Papa in search of America's forgotten fruit. He says the Papa was also prized by iconic early Americans. It helped sustain Lewis and Clark on their journey west, and George Washington grew the Papa on his Mount Vernon estate.

One could make the argument that the Popeye is the most American fruit. It's been here for millions of years. It's indigenous to this place. People have been naming places after the pawpaw and writing songs and poems about the pawpaw. This is where I had my very first pawpaw ever. Moore got his first taste of this fringe fruit at the Ohio Pawpaw Festival 15 years ago.

Before then, he'd never heard of it, like most Americans these days. Generations ago, we could go out into the woods and our parents knew where the pawpaw patches where our grandparents knew where the pawpaw patches were. But at some point in the 20th century, we stopped going to the woods for our food. We started getting most of our food from supermarkets, and the food system became very industrial. That transition away from foraging our food led to the downfall of the pawpaw,

which has a short shelf life and is more fragile compared to other fruits. But I don't think those are reasons to say that the pawpaw can never be brought to the people. We bring all kinds of fragile, short shelf life fruits to markets. And one of the things I've begun to think about with the papa is that, that it's just something we haven't got it around to doing yet in terms of, you know, incorporating into our food system. Oh, yeah. Moore, who grows pawpaws and sells them to his local co-op in Pittsburgh, says that research, currently underway at schools like Kentucky State University, could help develop a breed of pawpaw suitable for market shelves.

But for now, part of the pawpaw's charm is that you can't find it in most grocery stores. You still have to go to the land to get this fruit, or you have to have a connection to, community to other people around you to find this fruit. It is nice that there is this fruit that can still bring people closer to each other and to the land. In the meantime, festivals like this have popped up around the country. Of what avail are school taxes if the young people are not taught the glories of the pawpaw? Making sure this beloved American fruit lives on. For the PBS News Hour, I'm Dima Zane. And there is more online, including more on what people say pawpaws taste like.

That's on our Instagram. And be sure to watch Washington Week with the Atlantic tonight here on PBS. Jeffrey Goldberg and his panel explore Republicans and Democrats' political strategies in the current funding fight. And watch PBS News weekend tomorrow for a look at the Trump administration's plans to address long COVID. And that is the News Hour for tonight and this week. I'm Jeff Bennett. For all of us here at the PBS News Hour, thanks for spending part of your evening with us and have a great weekend.