PBS News Hour - Full Show - September 11, 2025 – PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Thursday on the News Hour, authorities work to piece together the killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, Brazil's former president is convicted of an attempted coup following his election loss and former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson and a task force of legal experts issue an urgent call to protect democracy in the United States. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Good evening. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Amna Nawaz. On the news hour tonight, authorities work to piece together the killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. We examine the shooting during a time of heightened political violence. Brazil's former president, Jaya Bolsonaro, is convicted of an attempted coup following his election loss. Former Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson and a task force of legal experts issue an urgent call to protect democracy in the U.S. Much of America is drowning in conspiracy theories, extremist views, and there are a number of elected officials, politicians that pander to those views.

Welcome to the News Hour. Tonight, federal agents are intensifying their search for the person who shot and killed conservative activist Charlie Kirk. The 31-year-old was killed yesterday as he was speaking to a crowd at Utah Valley University. Today, the FBI released photos of a person of interest, and investigators say they've recovered the weapon used in the attack. Meantime, Vice President J.D. Vance and his wife are in Utah

to meet with Kirk's family and friends. Charlie Kirk's body will be flown on Air Force 2, the Vice President's plane, from Utah to Arizona, where he lived with his family. We begin our coverage tonight with this report. Tonight, a manhunt is underway for the shooter who killed Charlie Kirk. At Utah Valley University, investigators scoured the campus for clues. Good morning.

This morning, authorities say they're analyzing evidence found at the scene. We have recovered what we believe is the weapon that was used in yesterday's shooting. It is a high-powered bolt-action rifle. That rifle was recovered. a wooded area where the shooter had fled. The FBI laboratory will be analyzing this weapon. Investigators have also collected footwear impression, a palm print, and forearm imprints for analysis. Today the FBI released photos of a person of interest, offering a $100,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. Suspect blended in well with the college institution.

We're not releasing many details right now, and we will soon. but right now we're not. But that individual appears to be of college age. We are confident in our abilities to track that individual. Kirk was shot yesterday in front of a crowd of thousands gathered for the kickoff of his so-called American comeback tour. It happened in the heart of the Utah Valley University campus. Authorities say the shooter appeared to have fired from the rooftop of this building,

over 200 yards away from where Kirk was speaking on the campus. quad. He was hit while answering a question about mass shootings. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years? Counting or not counting gang violence? Great. Chaos and panic erupted as the scene unfolded, leaving witnesses unsure at first of what was happening. I hear this loud sound and I'm like, that wasn't what I thought it was, is it? I was like, no, this can't be happening right now. And we all ducked. Confusion quickly, outed the investigation.

Hours after the shooting, FBI director Cash Patel posted that the shooter was in custody, only to later backtrack and say a suspect had been released and the probe was ongoing. Officials then said a different individual had been detained and questioned, but was ultimately released. President Trump announced today during a September 11th memorial event that he'll posthumously award Kirk the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor. We miss him greatly yet. I have no doubt that Charlie's voice and the courage he put into the hearts of countless people, especially young people, will live on.

Kirk's influence, especially among young men, helped propel Mr. Trump back to the White House in 2024. In a video message last night, the president blamed his political opponents for Kirk's killing. Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives. Officials have not yet announced a motive for Kirk's killing and political violence is not relegated to one side of the aisle. In Washington, D.C. today, some lawmakers blamed the media for rising political violence. You are responsible for that assassination yesterday, and you should be ashamed of yourself. It's disgusting. I'm not going to point the finger at either party. Both party has guilt. I think the media has some guilt.

While others called on fellow elected officials to tone down the rhetoric. This is about the emergence and uncorking of violence that we're talking about. And it has absolutely gotten to a point that is where we need to really look towards our leaders to lower the temperature. It says Vice President J.D. Vance visited Kirk's family in Utah. He survived by his wife, Erica, and two young children. At just 31, Kirk had become one of the most influential conservative voices in American politics. An ally of President Trump since 2016 and a confidant to many in the White House, he wielded outsized influence for his age.

Kirk founded the conservative group Turning Point USA at 18 and quickly built it into a political powerhouse, known for its campus activism and widely followed podcast. His views earned him a loyal following and frequent controversy. Civil Rights Act, though, let's be clear, created a beast, and that beast has now turned into an anti-white weapons. Surgeon and flight are the top two. You're going to remove my appendix, and you're a black lesbian. In Leviticus 18, is that thou shalt lay with another man shall be stoned to death. Just saying, children of the West are being taught with primarily Jewish dollars subsidizing it to view everything through oppressor-oppressed dynamic.

death in the current political atmosphere prompted condolences from all four living presidents who also condemned his killing. And California Governor Gavin Newsom, who debated Kirk on his podcast, wrote on X, the attack on Charlie Kirk is disgusting, vile and reprehensible. In the United States of America, we must reject political violence in every form. That alongside a wave of reaction from the right. It's happening. We've got trans shooters. You got riots in L.A. They are at war. with us. Whether we want to accept it or not, they are at war with us. We all knew him well. He's going to be missed, truly. For more on Kirk's life and legacy, I'm joined now by Benji Backer. He's the CEO and

founder of Nature is nonpartisan, and he worked with Kirk when he launched Turning Point USA. Benji, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. First of all, let me just say on behalf of all of us how sorry we are for your loss, for everyone else who lost a friend and a family member in Charlie Kirk, but you have known him from the very earliest days of Turning Point USA. You shared a photo online of the two of you all those years ago. Just tell us why you joined that effort,

what it was about Charlie and the message that spoke to you. Well, how you just explained Charlie, a friend and, you know, a family member is how he'll be remembered by those who cared about him the most. And, you know, when I was in high school, he was drawn to me and I was drawn to him because we were two high school activists, conservatives pushing back against some of the stuff that we were seeing in the classroom, bias in the classroom that we were seeing.

And I grew up in Wisconsin. He grew up in Chicago, so we'd drive up to see each other or drive down to see each other pretty often when he was starting to think about launching Turning Point USA. And a really pivotal moment of my life was in high school.

I was getting death threats from my own high school colleagues because of my political activism, getting phone calls and tweets, and all sorts of different things. And he was really supportive. He was really the only person that stood up for me at the time and just reminded me always to stay resilient,

to stay strong, and that these threats were baseless and that nothing would ever happen because of it. And so it just, it's painful to see being on the receiving end of that, those threats and not having that happen to me and having someone like him pushed me through that time. at a pivotal time of my life, you know, seeing him get killed this way, the same way that it was threatened of me, just is really painful. And, you know, he was one of the strongest people. And I didn't

agree with him on a lot of things. And we drifted apart in recent years. But I always had so much respect for the strength that he had, the courage that he had to stand up for what he believed in, even if I didn't always agree. And it was always genuine. It was always what he wanted. and he was trying to do the best thing. And so, you know, I saw how he supported me and how he supported so many others. And so, you know, seeing him go out this way is hard. Benji, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I know how hard this must be for you. And I hear you saying you didn't always agree with him. You drifted apart recently. But in your view, did he ever worry that something like this might happen? I think he knew that standing up for what he believed in was worth it. You know, that's something that I think we can all carry with ourselves.

Violence is not okay. You know, the way that this country's headed is not okay. You know, we're more disconnected than never before. And this sound bite politics that, you know, we're seeing is pitting us against each other in a way that's really damaging, this social mediaifying of politics. And so I think he knew that there was always a risk in doing what he was doing. But, you know, throughout history, the boldest people have died standing up for what they believed in. And you can hate the guy or love the guy politically, but you've got to respect the way that he stood up, knowing that this was always a risk. He put himself in harm's way all the time. I speak at college campuses multiple times a month. You know, thinking about being put in harm's way has been really hard for me as well to just think about. And he knew that. And he had a target on his back. He got threats all the time. You know, what I went through in high school was just a small percentage of what he had to go through on a day-to-day basis. And he knew that that was always a chance, but he still. went and showed up and had those conversations with people who disagreed with him.

And I think that's really, really admirable. At the same time, Benji, I have to ask you, you mentioned you grew apart. You have criticized some of the things that he had to say recently online. You went so far as to call some of his remarks vile and anti-human. You clearly didn't agree with him always. Even on this issue that's close to you on climate, he dismissed a lot of climate concerns. And yet, he amassed such a lot of climate. following. He had so many people listening to what he had to say. Why do you think that was? Was it

in spite of the things that you disagree with or because of them? Well, I don't remember saying those things, but I do know that I had my very strong disagreements with him. And the reality is, I can think something is vile or what someone says is vile, but not think that they deserve to be killed over it. You know, he was a good person deep down. We had very, very adamant disagreements on a lot of things, including climate change and the environment. But at the end of the day, I mean, it's like if Greta, who's the biggest climate activist in the world, if someone on the right thinks that she's radical and is telling everyone that fossil fuels need to be shut down and she's protesting things in a very bold way, similar to how Charlie engaged,

that does not mean that if you disagree with her, she deserves to be hurt. And I think that that's the problem that we're at in society right now. We disagree with somebody and we almost wish that they had something bad happened to them. and that, you know, we have become so inhumane in our disagreements with one another. I've disagreed with Charlie many times the past, but I've also agreed with him a lot. And no matter what, it doesn't really matter. He's a human that deserves to live. And as a society, we're manifesting this evil.

We're telling each other that this person's a Nazi, this person's an extremist, this person's a communist, this person's a socialist, therefore they are evil and they must go. And the more that we do that, the more people are going to get killed. killed. The more that we pit other people as the villain to the point where we think that we need to end their life, that is when we are losing control of society. And our country is not going down a good path. I might have had my disagreements with Charlie. I have my disagreements with lots of people. But in a country with free speech and where we actually have the ability to talk with each other about these things, we're losing all of that by shutting down people we disagree with, by threatening them and by telling them that their opinion is not just vile and

humane, but we actually think it should kill them. I mean, that is an absolutely absurd trend that we're headed on. And I might have disagreed with him, but that does not justify anything even close to what's happened here. Benji Backer, the CEO and founder of nature is nonpartisan. Thank you for joining us, and what I know has to be a difficult week. Thanks for having me. Charlie Kirk's killing comes amid an alarming rise in political violence across the U.S., targeting both Democrats and Republicans. There was the killing of Men's, Democratic lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband, as well as the shooting of a state senator and his wife, the firebombing of Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence,

the murder of two Israeli embassy staffers at a Jewish museum in Washington, D.C., the attack on former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband, the January 6th insurrection, and two assassination attempts against President Trump. For a deeper look at this trend and what may follow, we're joined now by Rachel Kleinfeld, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for international peace and an expert on democracy and political violence, as well as Jeff Charlotte, a professor at Dartmouth College who studies rising extremism. Thank you both for being with us. Rachel, I'll start with you. We have this horrific timeline of violence, too many examples. What feels distinct to you about this moment? So it is a different moment. I've been

watching political violence rise over the last 10 years in America. But when you target someone in this way, it leads to people pointing fingers. And that's what we're seeing now is folks on the right saying, here's my litany of dead and I'm going to go after the Democrats. And people on the left saying, we are applauding this person because the murder of Charlie Kirk was the only way we felt we could get justice. When you see that mutual finger pointing, what you get is an escalation. You get a sense that if the government's not going to keep a lid on things, we're going to take it into our own hands. And that is very bad news from an escalation standpoint. Jeff, Charlotte, how did we get here?

What is shaping this current political climate? I mean, we're years now into the escalation of rhetoric and action that we've all talked about. The proliferation of guns and civilian hands, that except for these relatively tiny but terrible cases are not often used but more and more. And we see it, in fact, after yesterday, lots of people saying, I'm going to go and arm up. I'm going to buy a gun. And what I think those guns are functioning as, it's almost your ticket out of democracy. It's your way of imagining like, well, I'd like for this thing to hold together.

But in case it doesn't, I have a foot in this other reality. That other reality doesn't exist. It's delusional, but it enables people to support and believe in extreme cases so that this extremism has its own gravity now. And to that list of political violence, I think for viewers on the right, and I think they're absolutely erroneous in saying this, but the litany that I'm seeing again and again is the Charlie Kirk assassination came after a killing on a railway and Charlotte, North Carolina. and that terrible school shooting, neither of which were, appear to be political shootings. But on the right, that's the gravity. You can swoop, you can sort of sweep in any crime

and say it's part of this scare situation that entitles you to take ever more extreme steps. Rachel, if this moment feels different, feels distinct, what should Americans be bracing for in the days and weeks ahead? You know, rather than brace themselves, I'd love to see them do something. political violence is highly predictable, this kind of trend line that we've been seeing rise since 2015. It's highly predictable what makes it go up and what can make it come down.

What we need is for our political leaders on both sides to condemn this unequivocally, especially once it comes out who actually committed this because we still don't know that person's ideology. Whomever side that person is on needs to condemn extra loud. But really, everyone needs their politicians to condemn it. We need to stop supporting politicians who are using it as a political football and saying this will give us the go-ahead to go after the other side. And then as communities, we have to say no longer, not on our watch. As Jeff was saying, we are a heavily armed society.

That doesn't lead directly to political violence. Otherwise, we wouldn't have seen this rise. But it sure does enable it once it gets going. And we all have a stake in pulling it. it down, and that is within our agency. Jeff, are there examples either in U.S. history or abroad where societies pulled back from cycles of political violence? What lessons can we draw? I mean, we saw pretty extensive political violence in the late 1960s, early 1970s, and things did not

fall apart. Let's not forget that, you know, throughout the 80s and 90s, in addition to the really high-profile targeted killings of abortion providers, there were huge numbers of bombings and bomb threats. And that did help lead to this moment we're in, but it did not ignite. And the way I think of it right now is as a society, as a society, we are flicking matches into dry grass and daring them to light. And I know there are people out there say the flames are already lit, but that's the good news.

It is not an inferno. This isn't a full civil war. This isn't Ukraine. This is a simmer. But that means that there is room to do otherwise, as Rachel suggests. And Rachel, what gives you hope that we can find our way as a society

out of this cycle? You know, unfortunately, this is not America's first bout of political violence that moves from one side to the other, back to the first. You know, we had the civil rights murders in the 50s and early 60s, and then we had violence from the Weathermen and the Symbionese Liberation Army and so on in the 60s and 70s. And then we had the skinheads in the 80s and the militias and the anti-abortion activists. And then the environmental and animal rights groups.

We've been through this before. We've brought it down before as well. This has not been at a high level since the early 50s. we've brought it down multiple times. The fever has to break. And I think Jeff's right that this delusional idea that you buy a gun and you opt out of the system and you protect your own family, that's not how it works. It's not just that violence is on the right and violence is on the left. It's also there was a school shooting yesterday.

There will be mass shootings. These things move from left and right to just greater levels of violence. Everyone has an incentive to help the fever break sooner. Rachel Kleinfeld, Jeff Charlotte, thank you both for your perspectives and for your time this evening. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Jeff. In the day's other headlines, authorities in Colorado say that the 16-year-old who fired multiple shots at a high school outside Denver yesterday was radicalized by an extremist network. The shooting at Evergreen High School left two students wounded. Police identified the suspect as Desmond Hawley, who was a student there, saying he died of a self-inflicted gunshot.

Authorities gave no further details on the relationship between the shooter and the two victims. They say details on how the suspect was radicalized will be released at a later date. The British ambassador to the United States, Peter Mandelson, was fired today over his connections to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Emails published in the Sun newspaper this week showed Mandelson voicing his support for Epstein in 2008 as the disgraced financier was about to start a prison term for soliciting prostitution from a minor. Mandelson also appeared in a 2003 birthday book for Epstein, the same one that purportedly includes a note from Donald Trump. Mandelson's firing comes as Trump is due to visit the UK next week. Mandelson maintains that he knew nothing about Epstein's sex crimes. More than 300 South Korean workers are heading home one week after they were detained in an immigration raid in Georgia.

They were transported by bus from a detention center to Atlanta's international airport this morning and took off just before noon. The raid at a Hyundai manufacturing site near Savannah sent shockwaves through South Korea. And today, President Li J. Myeong called the situation baffling and warned that it could dissuade Korean companies from doing business in the U.S. From the perspective of companies, they will be concerned about disadvantageous treatment or facing difficulties when they're building factories in the United States. That could probably have a significant impact on direct investment in the U.S. in the future. Multiple media outlets are citing South Korean officials as saying that President Trump had offered to let the workers stay in the U.S. to train American workers on those highly skilled jobs.

Only one opted to stay behind. In the Middle East, Qatar's prime minister says Israel's attack this week, targeting Hamas leaders in Doha, quote, killed any hope of releasing hostages held in Gaza. Today, Qatar held funerals for the six people killed in Tuesday's strike, including five lower-level Hamas members. The attack has fueled anger among Arab countries, and it comes as Israel's offensive in Gaza City intensifies. Medics say that today's strike on one of the city's refugee camps killed at least five people. Israel has ordered people in Gaza City to evacuate, but many say that they have nowhere to go. We are tired. We are tired. We die every second. They tell you to evacuate, but where too? Is there any space in the south? Look at the cars. How will we flee? We are dying every minute.

Also today, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu signed a controversial agreement to expand settlements across land and the West Bank that Palestinians want for a future independent state. At the signing, Netanyahu said, quote, there will not be a Palestinian state. This place is ours. Back in this country, Senate Republicans today changed the rules of the Senate to speed up the confirmation process for President Trump's nominees. In a party-line vote of 53 to 45, the Senate triggered the so-called nuclear option to allow the chamber to confirm nominees in groups.

The move is a dramatic attempt to clear a backlog of nearly 150 nominees that are awaiting floor votes. Republicans say Democrats are holding up the process by forcing votes on each nominee. Democrats say some of Trump's appointees are, quote, historically bad. The change excludes nominations for cabinet officials, Supreme Court, justices and federal judges. The wife, a former senator Bob Menendez, was sentenced to four and a half years in prison today. Nadine Menendez was convicted in April of colluding with her husband in a bribery scheme that traded political clout for cash, gold bars, and a luxury car. In a Manhattan court today, she laid much of the blame on her husband, saying he's, quote,

not the man I thought he was. Bob Menendez is currently serving an 11-year sentence for crimes, including bribery and extortion. Nadine Menendez is set to report to prison next summer. On Wall Street today, stocks jumped after the latest inflation reading fueled hopes of an interest rate cut by the Fed. The Dow Jones Industrial Average jumped more than 600 points on the day. The NASDAQ added more than 150 points. The S&P 500 closed at a new record for a third straight day.

And Americans today marked the 24th anniversary of the September 11th attack, with solemn tributes. At dawn, an American flag unfurled at the Pentagon to mark where American Airlines Flight 77 made impact. Hours later, at a wreath laying inside, the President and First Lady mourned the nearly 200 people killed there. In New York, the toll of a bell and the blaring of the bagpipes punctuated hours of silent respect, as the names of nearly 3,000 victims were read aloud. Bells also rang out in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 came down after passengers and

crew took action to prevent another attack. Let us all, at this moment, reflect on their actions on this very morning 24 years ago and how their sacrifice ultimately saved the lives of so many. Today's remembrances come at a challenging time for a nation that still carries the scars of 9-11 even as it battles divisions at home and tensions abroad. Still to come, on the news hour,

a farmer and factory worker discusses feeling left out of the economy and the American dream. This is the PBS News Hour from the David M. Rubenstein studio at WETA in Washington and in the west from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University. The former president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, was sentenced tonight to over 27 years in prison after a Supreme Court judgment earlier today. Bolsonaro, who was president from 2019 to 2022, was found guilty of attempting to use military force to overturn an election

and plotting to assassinate a political rival, the man who holds the presidency now, Luis Inacio Lula de Silva. His trial had already led to a confrontation between Brazil's current government and the Trump administration, which could now expand. Here's our Nick Schifrin. In Brazil's Supreme Court today, a historic conviction. Jaya Bolsonaro, the former Army. captain who became Brazil's first modern right-wing president, guilty of trying to, quote, abolish

democracy and guilty of a coup and assassination attempt on current President Luis Anasio Lula de Silva, who won the 22 election over Bolsonaro by less than 1%. The guilty verdicts detail an extensive attempt to overturn the will of the people. The culmination, Bolsonaro incited supporters to storm the seat of government and vandalized the presidential palace just days after Lula, as he's universally known, took office. A group led by Jairn Messias Bolsonaro, composed of key figures from the government, the armed forces and intelligence agencies, developed and implemented a progressive and systematic plan to attack democratic institutions with the aim of undermining the legitimate transfer of power

in the 2022 elections. Bolsonaro's critics call today a victory for Brazil's rule of law, a reaffirmation of the 1980s constitution created to end two decades of dictatorship. But Bolsonaro's supporters, and there are many, call his prosecution political, and they vow to keep up their protests, including Bolsonaro's likely conservative successor, Sao Paulo's governor. We cannot destroy democracy under the pretext of rescuing it. We also cannot tolerate a conviction without proof. A conviction without proof opens a wound that will never heal.

Bolsonaro's supporters have found a kindred spirit in President Trump, who sanctioned the justice overseeing Bolsonaro's case using laws usually reserved for human rights abuses. President Trump also raised tariffs on Brazil to 50 percent, and today praise Bolsonaro. I think it's a terrible thing. Very terrible. I think it's very, actually, I think it's very bad for Brazil. President Trump's intervention failed to prevent today's verdict or convinced Lula to drop his defiance.

We are not, and we will never again be anyone's colony. We are capable of governing and caring for our land and our people without interference from any foreign government. Tonight, Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned the U.S. will, quote, respond accordingly to this witch hunt. For a deeper look, we turn to Brian Winter, the Executive Vice-Vist. President of the America's Society and councils of the America's nonprofit groups that seek to foster greater understanding throughout the Western Hemisphere.

Brian Wilmter, thanks very much. Welcome to the NewsHour. Brazil's a young democracy, no stranger to coups and dictatorships. How significant is it that Bolsonaro has become the first former president to be convicted of plotting to overthrow an election? It's a big day. It's a historic day for Brazil for the reasons that you cite. It's a country that just recovered.

its democracy a little more than 40 years ago, therefore is especially sensitive to any kind of risk of losing it. This is also a big day for the relationship between Brazil and the United States, because as your program just noted, we do expect there to be some sort of response from the Trump White House, which has described this whole process, this whole trial against more President Bolsonaro, his ally, as a witch hunt. Before I get to the U.S. and President Trump,

27 years is the sentence that just came down in the last few minutes. Very significant. But does that mean that Javier Bolsonaro will spend the next 27 years in prison? I think there's good reason to doubt that, you know, there is a somewhat overused expression about Brazil, which is that it's not for beginners. And this is a country where, you know, what seems like finality rarely is. And as proof of that. Of course, the current president, President Lula, was also sentenced to jail back in 2018 on corruption charges. He ended up serving about two years, was then released, and is now president of Brazil. So if you get into the business of making too many predictions, you're likely to make a mistake. And look, it's clear that between 30, 35 percent,

40 percent of the country, pretty hardcore Bolsonaro supporters who are likely to vote for whoever the candidate will be in next year's election, whether that's a member of the Bolsonaro family or perhaps another candidate, such as the current governor of Sao Paulo. So as you just indicated, Brazil is deeply polarized. How will his, how will Bolsonaro's conviction and the sentence resonate through society?

That's a good question. I think we're going to see that now. I mean, you know, I'm an American. I lived in Brazil for many years. I follow the country closely. The parallels between our countries over the last 10 years or so have sometimes been bizarre. And just as there was a period where it seemed like President Trump was on the outs after he left office in 2021 and he wasn't polling well, you know, Bolsonaro has gone through, I think, a phase where his supporters have been feeling somewhat dejected. And we'll see now if with this trial and perhaps images eventually of president,

Bolsonaro being led away to prison after his appeals are rejected, if he fails to get house arrest, which I know his lawyers are pushing for, that may reanimate the Bolsonaro base in the same way that some of the trials against President Trump reanimated Republican supporters who appeared ready at one point to sort of, you know, look toward other candidates. But there is clearly a version of Bolsonaro's movement that will follow Bolsonaro. after whether he's in prison or in house arrest? Well, it's a country that has become more conservative over the last 10, 20 years.

Nobody contests that. It's a country where, for example, evangelical Christians have gone from being about 8% of the population in a largely Roman Catholic country in the 1980s to about 27% of the population today. That is part of the reason why Jair Bolsonaro was elected in 2018. And, you know, it's a 50-50 country in some ways. The last election was literally 5149 and Lula won.

But it's a country where, you know, a lot of the same issues of gun rights and so-called gender ideology and abortion and other topics are really animating people. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why President Trump and his allies have latched onto this case and have felt such a, you know, a kinship with President Bolsonaro is because they do see. these similarities. There's people like Steve Bannon who go back and forth between both movements, Jason Miller, who another member of President Trump's orbit. And so, again, I'd always like to say that what happens in Brazil is because of what's happening in the U.S., but there have been a lot of parallels over the last 10 years or so. So quickly in the last 45 seconds or so we have left, let's come back to U.S. policy, as you called it a kinship between President Trump and Bolsonaro. Tonight, President Trump, as we saw, criticized the conviction, Secretary of State, Rubio, vowing that the U.S.

would respond. The U.S. already has imposed sanctions on the judge overseeing this case. If we were to see more sanctions like that, what would be the response? Well, Brazil is not the only country in the world that has faced U.S. sanctions, but it is the only country in the world where those sanctions have been linked to a judicial process. So far, this 50% tariff has not changed the mind of the courts. In fact, it may have even solidified their willpower. But we'll see.

I mean, people in Brazil are worried about what President Trump might do next. And that'll be the next chapter in this story. Ryan Winter, thank you very much. Thank you. American democracy is under threat. That was the starting point for a task force assembled by the American Bar Association two years ago and led by former Homeland Security Secretary Jay Johnson and former federal judge Jay Michael Ludig. Their mission was to investigate the causes and potential solutions for this growing problem.

Since their work began, the country has seen a turbulent election, the transfer of power, deepening political polarization and an alarming rise in political violence. Witnessed again this week with the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. All of this highlights just how fragile the American political experiment truly is. That ABA Task Force has released its final report and recommendations, and Jay Johnson joins me now. Secretary Johnson, welcome back to the News Hour. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Amna, and thanks for your interest in the report. So I need to ask you about the context in which this report is being released,

this moment where we've just seen the assassination of a major political figure in Charlie Kirk, this time of rising political violence that we're in. How do we interrupt that trend? That's a good question. Much of America is drowning in conspiracy theories, extremist views, and there are a number of elected officials, politicians that pander to those views. So we wanted to issue a set of recommendations that would have long-lasting impact, that would be as relevant a year from now or even a decade from now as they are today rather than try to respond to the crisis of the week. And so we've put forth a number of things like recommending open nonpartisan primaries, citizen

redistricting commissions, and a rededication to American civics education on the belief that Americans tend to distrust things that they don't understand and trust more things that they are more familiar with. I want to point out the task force was assembled, as I noted, by the American Bar Association. So we're talking about lawyers here, right? We started under the Biden administration and you continued

your work under Mr. Trump's. And you say in the report that lawyers have an essential role in upholding the rule of law. I have to point out there are lawyers involved in the efforts now to challenge democratic norms. Lawyers around the president, lawyers in

the Department of Justice. The declining to prosecute his allies, going after his political adversaries, advising him not to adhere to court ruling. So how do you reconcile that in this moment? Well, first of all, our report, the task force that authored our report were not just lawyers. We had historians, scholars, businessmen, and so we do say in the report that lawyers have been part of the problem and lawyers must be part of the solution. Lawyers are uniquely trained in the Constitution, in the law, in the rule of law, in how our democracy works. And so what we're recommending is that at the state level where professional responsibility is regulated and disciplined, there be an oath of admission that includes a dedication to the democracy, to rule of law,

and the independence of our judiciary, respect for our judiciary, and we're recommending that state-level bar associations, state Supreme Court's regulators take a hard look at whether existing professional responsibility rules have any gaps in them that could be filled to more forcefully bolster our democracy and the rule of law. You mentioned the redistricting piece of this, which has obviously been in the headlines, your report recommends citizen commissions to lead that effort. We're speaking now as Texas Republicans work to redraw their maps to gain five seats,

California Democrats, now pushing forward a plan that would go around their commission if voters agree to it to add five seats for Democrats there. You have worked for Democratic presidents. Is this the right move for California Democrats right now? What we've learned is that when you put it to the citizens on ballot initiatives, Do you want to have apolitical citizens drawing district lines, legislative district lines, versus the politicians? The answer is a resounding yes, so long as the political forces in a state don't beak the effort back.

We have a system now, and we have to blame both parties for this. We have a system now where the politicians get to pick their voters, and the voters do not get to pick their elected representatives. And we believe that there is a large public support for changing that. And what underlies that is electing representatives who are more accountable to the political center. Right now we have a system where most legislative districts in Congress are not swing seats. Only about 10% of them are swing districts, swing seats. So the elected representatives in Washington spend more time worried about a

primary challenge from their extreme right or their extreme left, and compromise coming together becomes a dirty word. And one way to make elected representatives more accountable to the people that elected them is redistricting on apolitical lines, on an apolitical basis. Your report talks about this context of deeper divisions, of political divisions that we're in right now. We are speaking on the anniversary. of the 9-11 attacks, and you have said before it would take a crisis in America to bring us together,

which we did see after 9-11. But as you've also pointed out, we didn't see that after the crisis of the COVID pandemic. Our divisions got even deeper. If there was another similar attack, a 9-11-style attack today, what would happen? I worry about the answer to that question. I worry that the American electorate, the American population, American citizenry has become so divided along partisan lines, extremist views, conspiracy theories, that if there were another 9-11 type attack, we'd quickly drown into a heated debate about who did it, what was the cause, and how to respond, and our elected leaders would follow that lead. I used to say that it would take a crisis to bring us together.

We had a crisis five years ago, COVID. And as you saw, and as we all know, there was a heated debate about whether or not a 35-cent mask should be required, the suspicion around vaccines. And unfortunately, an unnecessary, increased number of Americans died from COVID who probably didn't have to die. That is the former Secretary of Homeland Security and the co-chair of the ABA Task Force for American Democracy, Jay Johnson, joining us tonight. Secretary Johnson, great to speak with you. Thank you. Thank you. of Americans who are just trying to get by. To better understand that reality, our Lisa Desjardin traveled to Virginia's Blue Ridge region

where one hardworking family is struggling to make ends meet. Currently, I work full-time as a factory worker. When I'm not at the factory, I work full-time as a farmer here. There's no days to not take care of your animals. They need you. Zero degrees outside, every day. When it's pouring down rain, every day. When I'm not doing that, I'm trying to be a father, I'm trying to be a partner.

I'm trying to be, you know, something that my family can be proud of. I'm trying to, you know, be a provider. Yeah, I mean, I've always wanted to do this and get my own little place and my own little farmhouse. What Andrew Tate and his partner, Hannah Coogan, are trying to do seems simple, but often is a struggle. Build their five-acre farm in Virginia. Excuse me. Excuse me. into a better life by hand, with humor, and often with a baby, Astrid, strapped in front.

That carrying device is fantastic, but I look forward to when she can walk on her own, maybe even like haul a water bucket or two, you know, that'd be nice. Plus it'd be easy to carry up the hill that way. But that dream of hard work paying off is getting harder. It's a lot to juggle, yeah, always trying to find ways to like slim down the budget and make things fit. It's definitely hard to get it all done. wearing the baby sometimes, too. She's getting heavier.

Can I go first? They vote Democratic, but otherwise aren't political. Sheep, sheep, sheep, sheep, sheep. Livestock outnumber people here, and mouths need feeding, not debating. The Yeas are 218, the nays are 214. The motion is adopted. But the passage of the big, beautiful bill, with its tax cuts and Medicaid cuts, shifted something for Andrew. He wrote a letter to his local paper.

The reason why we're all here, I'm not ashamed of our life. It's honest work, and it's full of love. However, I am ashamed in a country as wealthy as ours. People like us are left out in the cold. It was kind of just a way of processing my emotion, I guess you would say, or trying to make sense of it. He definitely took the plunge when, you know, I was not brave enough to do that, even though I have the same feelings. feelings that for all the talk about working families,

no one is really in their corner. Is it harder than it should be to do what you're doing? I think it should be more fruitful, we'll say that. I feel lucky. I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones. I have a mortgage. I have this place. I feel like I'm better off than a lot of people.

And that's messed up. There's so many people that are struggling worse than we are. How are they doing it? I don't know how we're even getting. getting by. They just get by because Andrew Farms and works at a factory full-time, while Hannah runs the farm, homeschools their older daughter, and carefully budgets. And they get by staying unmarried.

I mean, the biggest thing for me is my girls and my partner and their health insurance. You know, they're on Medicaid. If they got married, the combined income would disqualify Hannah and the girls for Medicaid, they can't afford insurance through his job. It would cost more than their mortgage. We have been engaged now for a better part of three, almost four years. I love you, babe, but, you know, like, it's just, it's not fair. It's not fair. What do you think of the fact that both parties say they are the party of the working class? I, you know, I'm not seeing it.

I'm not seeing representation. The people in my life, all my co-workers, my family members, everybody I know is struggling. Everybody. You know, I want people to be okay. I want my neighbors to be okay. And I don't think that's Democratic or Republican. He follows the news and sees both parties in Washington. failing people like him.

Once you go down through it, all these buzzwords that sound so impactful and helpful to working families seem to just get whittled away through bureaucracy. Some of them probably don't know how hard it truly is. And I think that it's more about staying in power. Andrew and Hannah are the family so many politicians talk about, but they feel ignored. What do you want to happen for you and your family? What are your next school? Get ready for winter. That's coming up soon. that's coming up soon. Got some fences to fix. Getting a well would be huge for us.

That's something I've been saving for for a couple years now and having fresh water for my family. And for me, find a way to, you know, just win the rat race if you can, make enough money to finally afford health insurance. Like, will the cost of living be just continually out of reach? But yeah, I mean, just trying to not just survive but prosper. Andy hopes that's possible before Astrid knows there ever was a struggle. For the PBS NewsHour in Mount Jackson, Virginia, I'm Lisa Desjardin. Tonight we hear from Tiffany U, founder of Diversability and author of the Anti-Ablest Manifesto. After a childhood accident left her with a permanent disability, Tiffany decided to dedicate her life

to creating communities where people with disabilities of every kind can be seen, supported, and celebrated. Here is her brief but spectacular take on embracing disability pride. November 29th, 1997 was the day that everything changed. My body changed, my life changed, my whole family changed. I was nine years old. And on a car ride home with my dad and a couple of my siblings, he lost control of the car. I sustained a handful of of injuries, including permanently paralyzing one of my arms, breaking a couple bones in one of my legs that would leave me as a temporary wheelchair user for about four months, and much later being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, a mental health disability.

On top of all of that, my dad also passed away. After about a four-month rehabilitation period, I returned back to school, and I was thrust into this environment where I was still grieving the loss of my dad and trying to better understand this new body that I had, this disabled body. Bias shows up for disabled people the most is through exclusion. It's through not even being thought about. So some of my hardest memories growing up weren't necessarily things that people overtly said to me.

It was the things that they didn't do. And one of the things I noticed was that people were pretty uncomfortable around my disability, and as a result, they were uncomfortable with me. And at the time, all I really wanted was to be accepted, and understood and seen. For about 12 to 13 years after the car accident, I actually didn't tell anyone about it.

I still remember the day that I first shared the story publicly of the car accident. I think two things were happening with the emotion that came out. And the first was being seen and validated for the first time in this story. And the second was the enormous amount of pain that I hadn't given myself the space to process.

I wanted to build a community, because what happens in community is not only do you realize you're not alone, you realize how much power and influence you do have as a collective together. And so what we're working on is what I call the shame to pride transformation around a disability identity. Disability pride is everything. It is the way that a disabled person asserts their sense of worth and value in a society that tells us that we should feel shame about who we are. Looking at my own journey, I want to take those 12 years of shame that I had

had internalized and say, hey, look at me now, how liberating is it to just be myself and be proud of who I am in all aspects of my identity? Nine-year-old Tiffany would be in disbelief of who she has become. In many ways, the why behind everything I do is for her. And if I could tell nine-year-old Tiffany anything, I would tell her, I can't wait to see who you become. My name is Tiffany You, and this is my brief but spectacular take on elevating disability pride. Quite a story. You can watch more brief but spectacular videos at pbs.org slash newshour slash brief. And that is the NewsHour for tonight. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Amna Nawaz. On behalf of the entire NewsHour team, thank you for joining us.