PBS News Hour - Full Show - September 25, 2025 – PBS News Hour full episode

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Thursday on the News Hour, the White House threatens mass firings across the government if Congress fails to avoid a shutdown. Finland's president discusses the ongoing war in Ukraine and rising tensions between Russia and NATO. Plus, families of Americans killed and detained in the Israeli-occupied West Bank speak out about escalating violence and lack of accountability. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Good evening. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Amna Nawaz. On the news hour tonight, the White House threatens mass firings across the government if Congress fails to avoid a shutdown. Finland's president discusses the ongoing war in Ukraine and rising tensions between Russia and NATO. And families of Americans killed and detained in the Israeli-occupied West Bank speak out about escalating violence and a lack of accountability. accountability. An Israeli investigation is not acceptable to us as the family because you can't have someone who committed the crime, investigate themselves, and judge themselves. Welcome to the News Hour. The White House is threatening to use a looming government shutdown to drive mass layoffs at federal agencies. And that's with the funding deadline that lawmakers appear almost

certain to miss just days away. Our congressional correspondent, Lisa Dejardin, and White House correspondent, Liz Landers, are here with the latest. So Liz, we'll start with you last night, the OMB director, Russ Vote. He told agencies to prepare shutdown plans that include permanent layoffs. What more do we know? We obtained this memo late last night. It was sent over by the Office of Management and Budget. And in it, it says that they are preparing for a potential shutdown. And some of this is normal. And they've had some planning calls apparently about this this week. And there's some politics in here, some finger pointing that the administration is doing at Democrats in particular, saying that they are inching closer to a shutdown over a series of insane demands, including a trillion dollars in new spending.

But this note goes farther. And what it suggests is that the agencies could use this moment to do mass layoffs. It says agencies are directed to use this opportunity to consider reduction in force. And as you know, Jeff, this agency, this administration, I should say, has really relied on these RIF notices, these reduction in force mechanisms to really slim down the federal government in the last seven or so months of the Trump administration. And that's right. And we should make clear that the threat of permanent cuts is new.

How did these agencies typically prepare for a possible shutdown? So it's normal for an agency to put out a country. contingency plan. And they usually post those on a website. And the White House currently has some of this up right now saying that agency contingency plans for a lapse in appropriations are hosted on each agency's website. We tried to find what those contingency plans would look like. And from a lot of the major federal agencies, we didn't see any updated contingency plans. So basically what that means right now is we don't know who is going to be deemed an essential worker who keeps the government functioning, critical issues, critical functions of the government

that we need, who may be furloughed and who may be part of this reduction in force. So right now, federal employees around the country are waiting to find out if they are impacted by this RIF or not. Yeah, lots of confusion. So Lisa, you've been talking with your sources on the Hill as well as the unions that represent federal workers. How do they see this threat of mass layoffs by the Trump administration? Somehow we, yet again, are in uncharted territory, and you're right, federal workers are right in the middle of it. So talking to the largest union for federal employees, which is the American Federation of Government employees, they put out this statement, they sent to me and to others, saying that the only path forward is compromise. Federal employees are not bargaining chips, and that gets to this idea of rifts being on the table.

They see rifts as patently illegal. Now, the argument there, talking to a former official with the Office of Personnel Management, is that the law governing shutdowns says that when you're shutting down, HR for each agency is only supposed to be doing shutdown activities, figuring out who stays and who goes. And that a permanent riff is not a shutdown activity. What it is, is reorganizing government. That's the argument that's illegal. Now, in reality, as we've seen the Trump administration do, they will make their argument

that he has that power, and they will wait for courts to act, which will take much longer. Meanwhile, federal employees who have been promised to be paid after a shutdown now have a new concern, which is that they could lose their jobs entirely. Now, I also want to mention about Democrats, where they are all with this federal workers being in the crosshairs moment, they right now are saying this is an intimidation scheme. It's not changing their strategy for the shutdown. But privately, some Democrats admit they are worried that maybe some aspects of a shutdown could lead to worse consequences, things they don't want to happen for government.

So let's talk more about that. Where do things, Stan, because the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer was on this program last night. He described President Trump as derelict in the way that he's going about handling all of this. Is either side budging? It appears they're not. Yeah.

This is a high-stakes game of chicken right now. And what we're seeing is Democrats actually emboldened because they think Republicans have made some missteps, including the president canceling that meeting with them. Today we saw Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader, again go in front of microphones. He is trying to make a statement here by having news conferences every day at the Capitol saying, hey, I'm here. I'm ready to meet. Now, in reality, also, Republicans have canceled not just the first couple of days of session next week, but all of next week. I spoke to a Republican member tonight, and I said, aren't you nervous about not being in town during the shutdown?

He said, no, I don't think voters are going to care after this is over. That's the risk that Republicans are taking. I also want to walk people through because this is a lot to talk about a basic 101 of what is needed to avoid a shutdown. Because it hasn't happened yet, right? So first of all, the first thing, obviously, is the House majority has to pass a funding bill. That has happened. House Republicans pass that bill. Now, this is what Democrats have rejected, and the Senate needs to have 60 votes to pass a funding bill.

They're eight votes short right now of getting that done. So that's really where the holdup is. That's where Democrats have leverage. Because you don't need a lot of Democrats, but you do need more than they have right now. Where are we with the shutdown? I'm sticking with my 80% chances. They could maybe have a short-term funding bill, but no one's even discussing that right now. And quickly back to something you said, Lisa, House Republicans, they canceled the session for next week.

What reason did they give? They said they don't think there's any reason to come back once they've passed their bill for funding, and they're leaving it up to the Senate. they're really just trying to jam Democrats in the Senate, but they say, we've done our job, they need to do theirs. All right. Lisa Desjardin, Liz Landers, our thanks to you both. You're welcome. In the day's other headlines, President Trump signed an executive order today

that aims to keep TikTok available in the U.S. With this executive order, you will be effectively bringing into effect the agreement that will save TikTok. At the White House this afternoon, Trump said a deal to bring TikTok under U.S. ownership would meet America's national security concerns. Trump added that China's president Xi Jinping had given the go-ahead for the agreement, though few details are known about how it will actually work. Last year, Congress passed a law requiring that TikTok's China-based parent company

sell the app or face a U.S. ban. President Trump has repeatedly extended the deadline for that ban. We're learning more tonight about the identity and possible motive of the gunmen in yesterday's attack on an ice field office in Dallas. Law enforcement officials identified the suspect as 29-year-old U.S. citizen Joshua Yan. Today, FBI director Cash Patel posted on social media that the alleged shooter left behind handwritten notes, including one that read, quote, hopefully this will give ice agents real terror. Patel also said the evidence points to a, quote, high degree of pre-attack planning. At a news conference today, officials called the shooting a targeted ambush-style attack on law enforcement,

adding that the actual victims were not the intended targets. It's clear from these notes that he was targeting ICE agents and ICE personnel. The tragic irony for his evil plot here is that it was a detainee who was killed and two other detainees that were injured when he fired into the sally port. What he did is the very definition of terrorism. Authorities also said the rifle used in the shooting was legally obtained and that the gunmen likely acted alone before taking his own life. At the UN today, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said his people reject the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, Appearing via video after the U.S. denied his visa, Abbas said that Palestinians in Gaza

have been facing a, quote, war of genocide. And he pledged that Hamas, which is seen as a rival to the Palestinian authority, would have no role in governing the territory after the war ends. Despite all what our people have suffered, we reject what Hamas carried out on the 7th of October. These actions do not represent the Palestinian people, nor do they represent. their just struggle for freedom and independence. Those comments came as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made his way to New York, where he'll address the UN tomorrow. He's expected to push back against nations who've come out recently in favor of a Palestinian state.

The meantime, in Gaza, local health officials say Israeli strikes overnight and into today killed at least 17 Palestinians across the terrorist. territory, including 10 children. Several explosions took down tents and houses, in some instances, crushing families as they slept inside. In France, a Paris court sentenced former president Nicolas Sarkozy today to five years in prison for criminal conspiracy. Sarkozy was found guilty of attempting to fund his 2007 presidential campaign with money from Libya. Speaking to reporters after the ruling, the former conservative leader denounced the case as a scandal and has vowed to appeal.

In a surprise twist, the court said he'll be incarcerated during any appeal process, which would make him the first former president to serve prison time in the nation's modern era. Back in this country, Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook took her challenge against President Trump's attempts to fire her to the Supreme Court today.

Her lawyers say that Trump's efforts to remove her, quote, eviscerate the independence of the Federal Reserve Board. This comes as former Federal Reserve Governor, along with other top economic officials urged the Supreme Court to preserve the Fed's independence. In a filing, they write that keeping her in the job would, quote, serve the public's interest by safeguarding the independence and stability of the system that governs monetary policy in this country. Starbucks says it will close hundreds of underperforming stores across North America this weekend.

The coffee giant will also lay off about 900 corporate staff. That's on top of the 1,100 job cuts the company announced earlier this year. Starbucks says it plans to spend about a billion dollars on the current restructuring plan as it works to turn around a decline in sales. Amazon has agreed to pay $2.5 billion to settle allegations that it tricked customers into enrolling in its prime membership program. Much of that money will go towards reimbursing subscribers. Amazon does not have to admit wrongdoing.

In the meantime on Wall Street today, stocking. ended lower despite a surprisingly strong reading on second quarter GDP. The Dow Jones Industrial average fell more than 170 points. The NASDAQ gave back more than 100 points. The S&P 500 posted its third straight loss. And for my fellow word nerds out there, Miriam Webster is adding more than 5,000 new terms to its popular collegiate dictionary. Among the entries are RIS, short for charisma, dumb phone for a cell phone that lacks email and web browsing features, and foodie-friendly terms like cold brew, farm to table, and ghost kitchen. That's a business that only serves takeout and delivery. This is the first update

to the collegiate version of the dictionary in more than 20 years. Still to come, on the news hour, we speak with the families of Americans killed and detained in the West Bank. A deeper look at the questionable claims the Trump administration is making about Tylenol, pregnancy, and autism. and ordinary citizens work to document exhibits at the Smithsonian amid the White House's threatened changes. This is the PBS News Hour from the David M. Rubinstein studio at WETA in Washington and in the west from the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University. Now to our interview with Finland's president Alexander Stubb.

We spoke this morning in New York during this. week's UN General Assembly. As the leader of a NATO nation that shares an 830-mile border with Russia, Stub has been a key voice in Europe's response to the war in Ukraine. In a speech to the UN Security Council this past week, he welcomed what he called an apparent shift in tone on Ukraine and Russia by President Trump. I asked him, given the contradictory statements by the Trump administration on the war, including the claim that Ukraine will be able to win back territory now under Russian control why he believes President Trump's latest words carry weight. My first observation is that never underestimate the capacity of President Trump to negotiate a deal.

I think peace mediation is always incremental. You go step by step. Sometimes it's two steps forward, one step back. I think what I've found in this eight months is that we've had a process. You know, first there's been a lot of carrot. So you try to get convinced Putin to. come to the negotiating table. And when you see that the carrot is not necessarily working, you put down a stick. And what we saw on Tuesday was a big statement from the president. Do you think Vladimir Putin perceives Donald Trump to be strong? I mean, there are dispassionate observers who say that President Trump has avoided holding Vladimir Putin accountable. Well, you know, I can't go into the head of President Putin, but of course, looking

at the track record of President Trump, I'm sure as a Russian president, I'd be worried. When he says that the Russian economy is not doing well or that the Russian military has made a strategic mistake and they should pay for it, I mean, I'm sure the Kremlin is listening. So I do think that the Kremlin sees President Trump as a strong president. The Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk in a tweet said that behind Trump's optimism lies a promise of reduced U.S. involvement in a shift of responsibility for ending the war to Europe. Do you see it that way? No, I see it as teamwork. So basically, you know, before Alaska, we had a lot of conversations with the president. He comes back from Alaska.

We continue the conversations in the White House. And at that stage, we decided, okay, let's start working on security guarantees for Ukraine. They're pretty much a done deal now. Then after that, he, I would say, correctly says, you need to stop buying Russian oil and gas. We point the finger at Hungary in Slovakia. So that puts pressure on Europe, but I don't see it at all as an off-ramp. I think that's a wrong analysis. I think it's very much teamwork, and the only person I can end this war is President Trump.

So this isn't President Trump washing his hands essentially? No. I don't see that at all, because if you look at President Trump's engagement just during this UN week in different types of peace mediation, earlier it was about Azerbaijan and Armenia. It's been obviously about Israel and Palestine. So he has a lot of things going on, and, you know, one can focus on only so many things at a time. If the U.S. commitment waivers again, how will Finland, how will Europe insulate Ukraine from that uncertainty? Well, we work on it together. So there are many different elements.

I mean, first, we need to continue the financial support. And, of course, Europe is doing a lion's share of that together with the United States. Secondly, we need to continue the military support in terms of equipment, in terms of co-production, in terms of ammunition. And then thirdly, we need to continue to keep the financial pressure up on Russia. And the EU, the European Union, just issued its 19th sanction package. So we need to sort of maximize the pressure on Putin, which would then switch his strategic aim because he hasn't changed his strategic game.

That is still to deny the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of the UK. If he understands that Europeans and Americans are united to support Ukraine, he will probably change attack. How do the airspace violations play into Putin's strategic game to use your phrase? Russia over the past few weeks has violated the airspace of Estonia, of Poland, has violated Finnish airspace over the last few years. What do you think they're up to? Russia is testing us. They are conducting two types of warfare. One is kinetic, classic.

That's what we see in Ukraine. and the other one is hybrid. And they're testing us on land, air, and sea. So on land, a year, year and a half ago, they kept on sending asylum seekers, basically instrumentalizing them at our border, which is a heinous crime. But we put up legislation to deter that.

Then, over the winter, on Christmas Day, they cut cables in the Baltic Sea. We put up the Baltic Sentry operation, quote-unquote, by NATO. So they've stopped that. And now they're testing us in the air. we put the eastern century from the alliance. In my mind, in these situations, you kind of have to be finished. So stay calm. The more you prepare, the less likely he's there to continue. You've said that Ukraine, when it engages in peace talks, should start from a position of strength.

What does that look like in practical terms? Well, in practical terms, it looks like pretty much the following. One, they have security guarantees. So they take full responsibility of their own security, but they're supported by Europe and given a backstop from the U.S. Secondly, they have enough military equipment so that Russia understands that they can be hit, let's say, by long-range drones, which hit their strategic bombers up close to Murmansk, three, four thousand kilometers away from Ukraine. And then finally, that at the end of the day, Ukraine will never become Russian.

It becomes European, a member of the European Union, eventually, hopefully a member of NATO in the long run, and that I think would give them a position of strength. Given Finland's position on the border with Russia, how do you balance deterrence with diplomacy? Right now, unfortunately, we don't have much diplomacy on a political level because of the situation, but we do, of course, have diplomats discussing and we have practical arrangements. You see, Finland joined NATO not against Russia, but just to protect ourselves. The opinion polls in Finland changed overnight, or actually over three nights. Now, NATO membership has 80% support.

How do we continue the deterrence? Well, do what we've been doing. We have obligatory military service. 900,000 men and women have done it. We have 280,000 in reserves for wartime. We have over 60 F-18s. We just bought 64 F-35s. We have the biggest artillery in Europe together with Poland.

And as I always say, we don't have it because we're worried about Sokol. When this administration asks, what is Europe doing to make, maintain and to provide for Ukraine's security. What's Finland's answer? Well, our answer is that per capita, we are the fifth or sixth biggest provider of support to Ukraine when it comes to finance, when it comes to military equipment, when it comes to ammunition. And I also want to see, basically, the eastern flank starting from the high north, Norway, through Finland, the Baltic states, a little bit of an interim with Belarus, and then Ukraine is about 5,000 kilometers.

The biggest armies in Europe pretty much right now are Turkey, Ukraine, and Poland and Finland. So we've got the eastern flank covered. President Stube, thanks again. We appreciate it. My pleasure. After meeting with leaders of Arab countries on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly this week, President Trump again today promised that he won't let Israel annex the West Bank.

I will not allow it. It's not going to happen. Did you speak with Netanyahu about this journey? Yeah, but I'm not going to allow it. Whether I spoke to him or not, I did. But I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank. There's been enough. It's time to stop now. Recently, extremist settler violence against Palestinians in the occupied territory has been the highest since the UN started recording. Over the last two years, several Americans have been among those killed there. Recently, I sat down with three American families still seeking accountability and justice for the death or detention of their loved ones. Joining us now are Osden Egy

Bennett, whose sister, Aishunur Esgi, a human rights activist from Seattle, was killed by Israeli forces during a protest in the West Bank last year. Also, Kamel Mousselaeth, whose 20-year-old son, Seif Musaleth from Florida, was beaten to death, allegedly by Israeli settlers, and Ziyadh, whose 16-year-old nephew, Muhammad Ibrahim, from Florida, has been detained in Israel without trial for months. Thank you all so much for being here. We really appreciate your time. Ozzan, I'll begin with you, because this month marks a year since your sister, Aishanur, was killed. Israeli officials, we know, said late last year that it was highly likely she was killed by Israeli forces during a protest, and their words, hit indirectly and unintentionally.

But I know you and your family have been calling for a U.S.-led investigation. Tell us why. What are the questions that you still want answers to? Since the killing of my sister, we really haven't received any information. We know that there's an ongoing Israeli investigation. An Israeli investigation is not acceptable to us as the family, because you can't have someone who committed the crime investigate themselves and judge themselves on whether or not they're guilty. And that's why we're pushing for a U.S.-led investigation,

one that's unbiased, credible, and thorough so we can get answers to why my sister was killed and who killed her so that we can seek some sort of accountability for her death. I also have to ask you because I know you said recently that you were worried about your sister's safety before she went over there. Did she ever share that concern?

She was so passionate about going and being in solidarity with Palestinians that the risk to her was worth it. And in one of her last conversations with my dad, they were in an argument because he said, what if you get shot, what if you die? And she said, if my death makes a difference, then so be it. And so that's why I work here today continuing to advocate for her. Kamel, your son Zip was in the West Bank. He was visiting family, I understand, on your family farm, something he regularly did over the summers growing up as well. And he was killed just two months ago.

Tell us how you learned about his passing and also what you understand about how he died. The way I learned about his passing was I was actually in the States at that moment on July 11th. What happened was that Israeli settlers that day, a mob of them, attacked the youth that were there. And Seif Allah was one of the youth that were there. They were on our land. This was on your family farm. Our village is basically 85% U.S. citizens. So all these lands are actually owned by U.S. American citizen passport holders.

and legally ours. Israeli settlers were there illegally. A mob of them attacked the youth. They kind of ambushed them. One of his friends was busted up. He had his knee busted up with sticks. His other friend was shot, and he also died that day. His name was Muhammad Shenebhi, a close friend of Saif Allah.

Saif Allah was also unfortunately that day he was beaten heavily and when his friends found him he was still breathing my son told me that he's looking at his brother basically dying in front of his own eyes and for two and half hours the Israeli army prevented any medical assistance ambulances tried to go in but they didn't have a permit to get in and finally when they got this permit one of the The ambulances came in, it was attacked by the Israeli settlers, windows busted. Then finally, the ambulance got to Saif Allah, and he was still breathing. Five minutes before he got into the ambulance, Muhammad, his younger brother told me that he

seen his brother take his last breath. So for two and a half hours, so he was breathing. only five minutes before he went into the ambulance, he took his last breath. And who was blocking that was the Israeli army, and not the settlers. Settlers did the damage, and Israeli army blocked the help. Kamala, I cannot imagine what it was like to endure that, to share that with us now and relive it. But I have to ask, have there been any investigations, any arrests since that attack and since your son's killing? According to the Israeli army, which they told me this was only like two days after, or I actually read it on an Israeli Times newspaper that somebody was apprehended but they were released.

And they said there's an ongoing investigation, but I haven't got no answers from any Israeli authority whatsoever. Nothing. So yet, meanwhile, your nephew, Mohammed, who I understand is Saif's cousin, right? Was visiting family also in the occupied West Bank earlier this year. He was arrested from that home in February, and I understand he's been detained for months since then. Allegedly, we've heard, for throwing rocks at Israeli settlers. So what can you tell us about why he's been held for so long, whether or not he's been charged, and also how he's doing today? Muhammad was arrested, possibly kidnapped from his home. On February 16th, between three and four in the morning,

25 to 30 soldiers came to the house. He came out of the room, blindfolded, handcuffed, with M-16s being pointed at him, with soldiers wearing ski masks. Yesterday was seven months. The day that he was blindfolded and handcuffed was the last time anybody from the fan. has seen him, including his parents.

In seven months, there's been no contact with anyone in his family. Over seven months now, yeah. And he is how old? He turned 16 in March. So he's a minor in detention. He's a child. He's a petite, 15-year-old. Our family doesn't consider him being 16 because he turned 16 in a box.

You know, 16 is where you, it's a big day for a 16-year-old in America. You know, you get your driver's permit. driver's permit you get your summer job so he's still 15 in our eyes yes do you have any insight into how he's doing have you gotten any information at all so we have got some emails from the u.s embassy in jerusalem uh noticeable weight loss uh one visit said noticeable skin infection scabies on the leg medication was denied uh then we found out the scabies spread it throughout his whole body. His lawyers haven't been able to see him.

I'm here on the behalf of his father. He can't be here. He'd like to be sitting in this chair, but he can't take the risk of leaving the country and not coming back in. And after seeing what happened to his cousin, we said we have to escalate this, and we need to get this kid home.

I want to underscore here, all of your loved ones are American citizens. American citizens. You are here trying to get the attention of this administration and asking them to act. What has that conversation been like, Ossan? My sister was a Washington State resident, and our Washington State representatives, senators, congresswoman, have been doing whatever they can to help us. But unfortunately, they're being stonewalled by the Israeli government and military, and they're being stonewalled by our own State Department and the Department of Justice. There have been numerous letters sent to the Department of Justice, urging an open investigation into my sister's killing. But no action taken over the last year?

No action taken. The one thing that is the thread between all of our families and stories we've shared is the impunity, continued impunity, that our government grants Israel. To continue killing American citizens, to continue committing international war crimes, there are no consequences. or red lines so far for what Israel can commit and get away with. Kamel, what is the one thing? If you could ask the U.S. government to do one thing right now, what would that be? My son was born and raised in the USA. I was born an American citizen.

We're as American as you can get. And we just want to see some sort of accountability and for this impunity to stop. You know, I can't bring my son back. We don't want no other father to bury their child like I did. Zayat, as you mentioned, you want your nephew to come home alive and soon. What is the one thing that you want the government to do right now that they have not yet done? Why is there such a double standard just by having the word Palestinian in your name, or in your heritage, or in your DNA?

Why can't he just be a 15-year-old child that's wrongfully detained? For seven months, starved, skin-infectant, hasn't seen his family. His family hasn't seen him. What we're asking here is for them to do their job. That's what we're asking. You work for the State Department, Marco Rubio. You're a Floridian. This kid is a child from Florida.

Treat him like one. Seed Kadur, Kamel Mousselaet, and Osden Eiji Bennett. Thank you so much for being here for sharing the memories of your loved ones and the stories of the one we hope to see back here soon. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you.

President Trump's warning to pregnant women this week to stop taking Tylenol based on his unproven claim that it can lead to autism sparked widespread concern and many questions about what the science actually shows. So we're going to try to take some time and answer some of those questions. Let's start with Tylenol, which doctors have turned to as the best option for treating pain and fever during pregnancy. On Monday, President Trump blamed acetaminophen in part for a significant rise in the number of cases of autism. Here's what he said. Acetaminophen, which is basically commonly known as Tylenol during pregnancy, can be associated with a very increased risk of autism, I want to say it like it is, don't take Tylenol.

Don't take it. If you just can't, I mean, it's a fight like hell not to take it. There may be a point where you have to and that you'll, you have to work out with yourself. For more on this, we're joined first by Dr. Linda Eckert. She's an author and a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Wairobi. Dr. Eckert, welcome to the NewsHour. Thanks for joining us. Well, thank you. So scientists have been looking at this link between acetaminophen and autism for decades. In the announcement, we should point out that the White House leaned very heavily on the research of the dean of Harvard School of Public Health, Dr. Andrea Baccarelli, quoting him as saying there is a causal relationship between Tylenol and autism. Just tell us what does most of the research on this issue show? most of the research does not bear out that there's a causal relationship causal relationships are quite hard to prove actually and the research on Tylenol has been quite reassuring overall and there was actually many studies several great studies that have looked at this and the most recent one that is a very powerful study was done in sweden where they looked over 250,000 individuals and they also were able to look at siblings where people

people had environmental and sibling relationships genetics in common. When they accounted for these environmental and genetic risks, they did not see any association between Tylenol and autism. So that's thought to be a very gold standard study. Dr. Jacker, can I also ask you, the reporting has shown recently that Dr. Baccarelli was also paid some $150,000 a few years ago in 2023 to be an expert witness in a lawsuit against the makers of Tylenol. It's gotten a lot of attention. But is that unusual or cause for concern here? Well, I feel like a lot of times when people do do research and publish it, they are asked to be experts. I think what's important is to disclose that and also to have a balance of people that are testifying or offering expert

opinions. I want to ask you as well about what we just heard from the president because he spoke very definitively about this. He said to pregnant women about Tylenol, just don't. take it, fight like hell not to take it. How does that square from the guidance from professional medical associations? It does not square well. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, the Society from Maternal Fetal Medicine, all have looked very extensively at the data, all have come out quite strongly reaffirming their recommendations that Tylenol really is the best choice for controlling pain and fever in pregnancy, and both pain and fever and pregnancy themselves have risks for the fetus.

We also heard the president say to pregnant women that they should consider toughing it out when it comes to pain or fever during their pregnancies. We know pregnancy to be such a high stress time for women already. I just wonder how you look at that language. Well, I have to say, as someone who's cared for pregnant patients for over 30 years, I find it shocking. I think that it is unlikely that the same advice would be given to the opposite gender to just bear their pain and not do anything about it. And the most important thing is that we want pregnant patients to be well and their babies to be well, just like they do. So I think they should talk to their providers and they should use evidence-based medicine and science to help make that decision. We also heard the health secretary Kennedy announced that his agency is closely examining links between vaccines and autism.

And he said before that this kind of research has been actively suppressed in the past. Can I get your take on that? There's there any evidence that that research has been suppressed? I think it's the opposite, actually. This has been looked at so carefully. And there are many studies, tens and tens of studies, a very large number of patients. all over the world that have shown that there is not a link between autism and vaccine use. If I can just ask you lastly here to speak directly to women who heard this advice this week

and maybe are concerned about decisions they made while pregnant or decisions they're making now that they are pregnant, what would your message to them be? I would offer reassurance and empathy, and I am sorry that this is such a confusing time with all of these mixed messages. I feel like there are good reasons to use Tylenol and the appropriate doses in consult with your physicians. And I hope that you can feel good about taking the best care of yourself and your baby.

Dr. Linda Eckert, OBGYN faculty at the University of Washington. Dr. Eckert, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right, let's turn now to an announcement made during that White House event, about autism. The FDA said it was approving an old generic drug called leukovorin, long used to treat the toxic effects of chemotherapy as a therapy for some people with autism. The active ingredient is a modified version of vitamin B9, also known as folate. Officials claimed it could help stem what they called an epidemic of autism. Estimates show about one in 31 children

are diagnosed with autism. Among boys, that number is one in 20. Once again, here's the president. Iraq, rise in autism is among the most alarming public health developments in history. There's never been anything like this. So we're going to save a lot of children from a tough life, really tough life. We're going to save a lot of parents from a tough life. For more on this, I'm joined now by Zoe Gross. She's director of advocacy at the Autistic Self Advocacy Network. Zoe, good to see you.

Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Let's just start with your reaction, the reaction from other people. with autism and their families that you've heard to this announcement from the president and his framing of autism as a crisis in this country. Certainly the way that the president and others spoke about autism at the presser on Monday was very disturbing. The phrase ending autism was used. The president said that the prevalence of autism should be none.

Once again, they used the line autism destroys families. So it was a very stigmatizing way to discuss. a very common disability that really no one should be panicking about. When you say it's disturbing, what do you mean? When you first heard them use that kind of phrasing, what went through your mind? Well, no one likes to hear from the president of their country that they belong to a group that shouldn't exist. But that's the implication of saying we need to end autism that autistic people shouldn't exist in our society. That Tylenol warning in particular we just talked about,

how is that resonating among expectant mothers who are weighing whether or not to take it, among mothers of children who are on the autism spectrum? What are you hearing about how they're reacting to that? People are very uncertain. A lot of people don't know who to trust because they're hearing one thing from experts and their doctors and researchers, scientists, and another thing from their government.

It's an upsetting situation to put parents in, and especially this thing of blaming pregnant parents for their children going on to be autistic. We've seen this before in the history of autism when scientists would say that refrigerator mothers or emotionally withholding mothers were causing their children to be autistic.

That obviously wasn't true, but it's a very sexist way of blaming the mother for the child's disability. You know, if you take a broader look here, is this whole renewed focus on research from this administration? They're pledging to invest $15 million to study the causes of autism, even the push we've seen from the FDA

to bypass traditional processes and try to offer therapy options, Is that welcome in the autism community? Shouldn't there be more research into this? Absolutely, but not this type of research. What the autistic community wants to see is a great increase in research that will improve our quality of life.

Whether that's investigating questions like why do so many autistic people have sleep disorders and what can be done to help us with that? Or what is the best way of teaching people to use an alternative communication device so that they have access to language? What are the best methodologies to provide services to people like personal care assistance

so that everyone can get out of bed, go to school, go to work, eat their breakfast, you know, do activities of daily living in their community as opposed to an institution. These are the research questions that we want to see investigated. But there's been a huge pivot leading even harder into causation research, which already was the vast majority of autism research funding. That's not a step forward for us. So does all of this make you trust what you're hearing from the administration more or less? I mean, how do you look at the guidance that's being offered here from the officials in charge. We would really encourage people to be looking to professional organizations like

the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, which was mentioned earlier, like the American Academy of Pediatrics, rather than looking to HHS or the White House is a source for public health information right now. We find that what's coming out of there is not reliable. We should note you've shared as part of your story. You were diagnosed at a young age. You've lived your whole life, knowing the kind of impact that these conversations unfolding at the national level can have on people with autism and their families. what do you want people to understand about autism and the autistic community right now?

Autism isn't going anywhere, and that's not something you should be scared of. What we need is to be included in society, accepted and accommodated, whether that's with job accommodations at work or individualized education plans in school, whether that's affordable, accessible housing or services through Medicaid.

We belong in society, and we deserve our rights, and we deserve accommodations. Zoe Gross. Always great to see you here. Thank you so much from the Autistic, self-advocacy network. Thank you for your time. Thank you. from the Trump administration.

Our senior arts correspondent, Jeffrey Brown, reports now on how a group of citizen historians are responding to the administration's moves, part of our series, Art in Action, exploring the intersection of art and democracy and our Canvas Arts coverage. On a recent weekend, Virginia resident Barbara Michelman went to her favorite Smithsonian Museum

in nearby Washington, D.C. The Hirshorn, renowned for its collection and exhibitions of contemporary art. The art there is unlike anything I ever saw in books or magazines in school growing up. But this was no ordinary visit. Instead of viewing the art, this time she was there to document it. When I saw the request for volunteers, I thought art is one of the first things to be attacked. And this seemed like a direct action for something that I feel is worth protecting,

which is freedom of artistic expression. Armed with her cell phone camera, Michaelman carried out her assignment, photographing all art and signage in one section of the Hirshorn, including works by Jackson Pollock and Janet Sobel, another pioneering abstract expressionist. It's part of a new grassroots effort to document everything on display at the Smithsonian's 21 museums and National Zoo. We call it citizen historians for the Smithsonian,

Smithsonian because we think it captures the collective and communal effort that the project is. The project is the brainchild of Chandra Manning and James Millward, two Georgetown University history professors, undertaking it as private citizens, independent of the university. The museum itself has excellent documentation, archives all of their data, they have beautiful images of everything that we've taken, amateur images of, but the point is not to try to duplicate what they're doing, but to have our own copy out among the people that we could refer to,

if necessary in the future. Last month, the White House announced a sweeping review of the Smithsonian Institution, including current and future exhibitions, wall texts, and even some internal communications. Within 120 days, the White House said, museums will be required to begin so-called content corrections, quote, replacing divisive or ideological-driven language. with unifying historically accurate and constructive descriptions. We want the museums to treat our country fairly. We want the museums to talk about the history of our country in a fair manner,

not in a woke manner or in a racist manner, which is what many of them, not all of them, but many of them are doing. It's part of a broader attempt by the President in his second term to reframe cultural and historical narratives. Millward, an expert on Chinese history, said the review spurred him to action. action. One of the things about history in China is that it's very, very often for thousands of years been controlled by the state.

And I really don't want to see our own history be tenementized the way that the Chinese Communist Party tries to censor its own past. He approached Manning, who as a graduate student had worked as a National Park Service ranger. She suggested mounting a campaign similar to one organized in response to an administration Review launched in May that aimed to remove signs in national parks deemed to have improper partisan ideology. The campaign called Save Our Signs and founded by a group at the University of Minnesota asked park visitors to take and submit photos of signs to a public website to capture any that might disappear. I am a historian of the United States who has spent my career

trying to understand the full story of our country. And it really concerns me to simplify and even falsify that story into a false uniformity. Because if you can erase people from the past, it becomes legitimation for erasing people from the present and the future. While the National Park Review is ongoing, administration officials have ordered the removal of signage and materials related to Native Americans in slavery.

Reportedly, including a reproduction at Georgia's Fort Pulaski National Monument of the Scourged Back, a well-known Civil War era photo of a formerly enslaved man with scars on his back. Manning says the photo was circulated widely at the time. Americans in the 1860s could handle the hard truths about the past and could be inspired about them to do better. I think that it's striking that the administration doesn't seem to think that Americans of the 21st century have the backwomen. of Americans of the 19th century. Manning and Millward teamed up with graduate student Jessica Dickinson Goodman, who helped organize hundreds of volunteers and set up a system to catalog their photos and videos.

For example, if you wanted to look up and see what the transatlantic slave trade exhibit had looked like on a particular date, you can go in and see. While exhibition rotations are routine, the project aims to track changes brought on by this unprecedented involvement by the White House. If there are egregious attempts to censor the texts or to remove exhibits that shouldn't be removed, then we will have a record that we can quickly find and we can give the before and after. The historians initially reached out to neighborhood groups and local listservs for volunteers.

Word of the effort spread, and they were soon inundated with offers to help. Were you surprised by the response? Pleasantly, yes. I was overwhelmed. I think we just passed 600 volunteers today. What was initially meant to document the eight museums highlighted in the Trump administration's review has now expanded to all the Smithsonian's museums.

In just four weeks, the project has amassed a visual record consisting of more than 25,000 photographs. It's not only about history, of course. It's also about our culture and art, and about science, because the Museum of Natural History also one of the ones on the White House list. There we're talking about efforts to change what we say about climate change,

about the age of man, how old the Earth is, perhaps, all sorts of things deeply related to science. Retiree Catherine Pruitt started her career in the collections department at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in 1977. Some of the best minds in the country are involved in curation, of the collections, in design of the exhibits,

and those minds have to represent a broad spectrum of scholarship, or the curator's not doing their job appropriately. After hearing about the Citizen Historian Project from a former Smithsonian employee, Pruitt and her husband Tom volunteered. Their assignment, part of the National Portrait Gallery's Hall of Presidents. We did have a chance to read how the presidents and their accomplishments had been portrayed. It was an interesting exercise to think about, would any of this really be something that someone would object to as improper? I didn't feel that way,

but I did feel good about making sure that we had it documented as it exists today. The Newshour reached out for comment to both the White House and Smithsonian. Neither to date has provided a response or spokesperson. Meanwhile, this citizen action continues. How do you define success then? For me, success will be, do Americans feel connected to this institution and like they've contributed to it? Does the Smithsonian hear the message? Do they hear how loved they are and how valued their work is? Manning and Millward hope to eventually make their Smithsonian collection available online to the public. For the PBS News Hour, I'm Jeffrey Brown.

And some late-breaking news, there are multiple reports tonight that former FBI director James Comey has been indicted on charges of making a false statement and obstruction during testimony to Congress in 2017. Without mentioning Comey by name, Attorney General Pam Bondi posted on X saying, quote, no one is above the law. Federal prosecutors had previously concluded that there was not enough evidence to bring charges against Comey, Trump complained on social media days ago that the former FBI director should be indicted. We will have more on this story online and, of course, tomorrow here on The NewsHour. And that is The News Hour for tonight. I'm Jeff Bennett. And I'm Omna Nawaz. On behalf of the entire NewsHour team, thank you for joining us.