Peak Prosperity - Dr. Ken Berry: Getting Healthy is Easier Than You Think

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

Good health is your birthright. It should be your baseline. Sickness should be a temporary departure from health. But most foods have been specifically designed to make people unhealthy. Getting back to excellent health begins, and often ends, with eating right.

When I was in kindergarten, there was one fat kid in the entire kindergarten class. And if you go to the average kindergarten in America today, 30% of the kids are overweight. Another 10 to 20% are literally obese. The following is the audio version of a video released at peakprosperity.com. Visit peakprosperity.com to watch the video and to find other insightful content such as articles, discussion forums, and exclusive subscriber-only content. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Peak Prosperity podcast. This is an Off the Cuff. I am your host, Chris Martinson.

And today, very, very special guest. Very much looking forward to this interview coming on the heels of, as you know, we've been talking about food, food health, and this awful realization that possibly just maybe our food companies have been trying to poison us. And so when we look at the whole big ag, big medicine, big food, big everything, it's all about making us ill and getting us to spend our money on all of their services, products and treatments and ointments and things to tamp down all the sickness they've been creating. So today we're talking with an actual leader expert in this, somebody who's been there, done that and has been through the healing journey many times with many people, Dr. Ken Berry. Ken, so good to see you here today. Thank you, Chris. It's a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about this very, very important topic. It's so important. So let's just dive right in, and then I want to get your background for people. Is our food making us sick?

Yes, absolutely. And I would actually, I would even go back and say we're using the wrong definition of food. If you look up the word food in the dictionary, it has a specific set of definition. Things have to meet certain criteria to be considered food. This goes for every mammal, cows horses you can't just put something in an animal's mouth and say oh i fed that animal no it has to be actually species appropriate food or you didn't feed that animal and in many cases in most cases in the u.s society for sure the majority of crap people are putting in their mouth doesn't meet the criteria for the word food. So food, food should be what? Nutrient dense and have the right balance of things that we would need metabolically

and just not meeting the bill anymore, is it? Exactly. So food should be nutrient dense, full of nutrition. It should be uninflammatory. It shouldn't cause inflammation. It should make inflammation lower. It should not promote chronic diseases. It shouldn't cause type 2 diabetes or fatty liver or obesity or hypertension. It shouldn't cause any problem. So in biology, I was an animal biologist before I went to medical school. And so there's this concept called adaptation. So what that means is, is that when you've done something for millions

of years as a species, not only have you become adapted to it and can tolerate it, you've actually captured it and now it is actually beneficial for you. And so for human beings, that would be real food that we've been eating for millions of years. Not only have we lost any ability to have a negative outcome from ingesting that, but we reap only positive benefits from eating that food. And so the vast majority of stuff on the supermarket shelves is not that. And that's the big problem. And I think that the big food companies are completely complicit in this.

They are responsible for this. I think in many cases they probably did it unknowingly, just chasing profit, which is fine. But now I think that once we have a huge lawsuit and we're able to get discovery and able to see all the back channels and all the e-mails and all the Slack messages, I think that it will become blatantly obvious that the big food corporations have known for at least a decade that they're causing harm to their customers. And the good thing for them and the bad thing for us is it's not immediate harm. They're not actively, acutely poisoning us.

This is a slow poisoning event that takes 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 years to show up. Now, you can imagine the bean counters or the accountants, the attorneys are like, hey, Kellogg's, you can't poison people acutely. We'll be killed in court. We'll go bankrupt. But if what you're feeding people is causing chronic, subtle inflammation, a little bit of slow weight gain, people die, you know, 5, 10, 20 years prematurely. They've accounted for all this. They've done the numbers. They're like, oh, yeah, we're fine.

We might get an occasional lawsuit, but most people are going to be too metabolic, they're unwell, their testosterone is going to be too low, they're going to be too sick to really pursue this. They're just going to be basically incapable of working their 9-to-5 job, coming home and then vegging out in front of the TV. They're not going to they're not going to be able to fight back against this. It's too subtle. It's too devious. That's that's exactly where we are right now. Now, I show this this chart all the time. People have probably seen it's a gif,

right, which shows the obesity in America by states over time. Right. And kind of goes from a blue collar to bright red, you know, over time. And it really looks like it picks up steam right around the mid-90s. Now, you've been there, done that. You've been watching people around you. I'm of an age where I can tell you it was not like this when I was a kid. I can guarantee you that. Yep.

When I was in kindergarten, there was one fat kid in the entire kindergarten class. And if you go to the average kindergarten in America today, 30% of the kids are overweight. Another 10% to 20% are literally obese. And that's never happened in human history. And I have a huge problem when you hear experts from the American Academy of Pediatrics saying this is genetic. All these kids just need Ozempic. What the hell are you talking about? If anybody knows anything about genetics and evolution,

stuff like this doesn't happen in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years. It doesn't happen that way. This is not genetic. This is our food. Well, and for everybody listening who has kids, grandkids, or cares about kids at all, you know, I was talking with a teacher, Ken, the other day, 30 years, just retired, and she said when she started, she remembered in her first five years it was one special needs kid, and now 25% of the class comes with a folder of instructions

can't eat this can't touch that allergic to this has that takes these medicines um it it just it feels evil to me if i'm going to put a term on it that we're actively knowingly poisoning our children for profit maybe is it fun and profit i don't know how to characterize this at this point. It feels dark. And I think that we've gotten to the point where the chronic disease and the mental health epidemics are just so pervasive. I mean, it's become almost ubiquitous that every single child has some kind of medical or mental diagnosis. It's gotten to that point now where I don't blame people for thinking this is evil. This has to be evil. But I have a unique ability to put myself fully in other people's shoes. I think that the board of directors at General Mills, the board of directors at Kraft Heinz or Mondelez, I don't think they're evil people, but I do think they're chasing the

dollar, which is fine in a capitalistic society. But you have to look at the outcomes. And so the result, 100% evil. But I don't think they have evil intentions. But they have been lazy, and they have cut corners, and they have done, well, just add a little of this and a little less of that. We'll save two cents per candy bar, right? And so if you just look at the ingredient list in Europe, what they allow to go in ketchup, for example. Ketchup in Europe has maybe five ingredients.

If you look at Heinz ketchup, let's just call the names out loud. If you look at Heinz ketchup in the United States, it has multiple ingredients. Plus, they have this thing in the U.S. that the CFR allows that they can say natural flavoring, Chris. Now, people would think, oh, well, maybe they rubbed a tomato against the bottle. I don't know what natural flavoring means. Under the regulations of the FDA and the USDA, natural flavorings, that can literally be 500 ingredients. Everything from sugar, which we're all eating too much of already, to other just hundreds of chemicals that have got the designation as generally regarded as safe, gross, if you get that for just a known carcinogen,

then all of a sudden now you can just put that in a product and call it natural flavorings. This is in every highly processed food in the American diet. This is bad. This is very bad. They're looking at it from a profit model. If we add this and don't add this, we're going to

save a penny per bottle of ketchup. And when you add that up to millions of bottles of ketchup, boom, you're going to save money. You're going to make more profit. Fine. But if you're not going to take into account the health of your customers, that's where we start talking about evil, Chris. Well, we do. And you mentioned something important. OK, so Europe, they often don't allow things, the BHT, certain preservatives, dyes and all sorts of additives. Right. But that means they must have a regulatory apparatus that's functioning. What you're describing to me is that I've and I've lost all my faith. COVID, the CDC, FDA. Woo. Did I? I lost some faith. Right. And it's going to be a hard row for them to earn it

back. But I now look at the FDA as being completely inept at their jobs, if not corrupting their jobs, because they're also chasing the dollar or whatever the story is, but they're not doing their jobs is how I feel about it. Is that a fair assessment? No, I think that's perfectly fair. And so let me, I think the recent productivity of the Secret Service at a recent event, which we can talk about if you like, I think that really gave people a very open look at the ineptness. And so at some point, and I've been saying this for years, whether you're inept or whether you're evil, at some point, the outcome's the same. Right? So it really, I think that the average person eating the standard American diet, it's irrelevant whether it's ineptness, whether it's ignorance, or whether it's evil. Because the outcome is the same. And I would say for the FDA and the USDA, it's ignorance, or whether it's evil, because the outcome is the same.

And I would say for the FDA and the USDA, it's a combination, because there is a revolving door between every big food manufacturer, between General Mills, Post, Kellogg's, Mondelez, Kraft Heinz, PepsiCo, Coca-Cola. There's a revolving door. You go work for the FDA for a few years, and then you come work for for us and you get a huge pay bump. But you know everybody at the FDA now. You're friends with them. You worked there for five years. Now you can tell us all the secrets of the FDA and just pretend I'm the Coca-Cola CEO and I'm like, yeah, hire that guy from the FDA. Now I've got the FDA playbook. I know

every single way that they might ferret out something in my product that's less than healthy. It's not abject poison, but it's less than healthy. And if you eat enough of it for long enough, you're going to develop chronic disease, whether physical or mental. Well, now I've got that guy and he's friends. He's got the email and the cell phone number of everybody at the FDA. He goes to barbecues with them, right? So I've got their playbook. And when that happens enough times, then effectively what's happened is Big Food has captured the Food and Drug Administration. They are a captured entity now, and they can't lay down the hard rules like the European Union's Food Commission. They can lay down hard rules, and if the companies don't like it, they can suck it.

Nobody cares if they like it or not. They have to abide by it or they'll get fined out of existence. That sort of thing just doesn't happen in the United States currently. And then the other thing you mentioned about what do we do with these organizations, I don't think we can ever recapture them. I think that they are a sinking ship. I think that we as intelligent thought leaders, what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to develop new parallel organizations that just ignore the existing organizations. And me and a group of doctors and researchers, we have just founded the American Diabetes Society for this very reason. We're creating a parallel institution

that's actually going to give people with diabetes good nutrition advice and good medication advice to help people with type 2 diabetes completely reverse their type 2 diabetes so they don't have it anymore. The ADS, for example, the American Diabetes Society does not want to be partners for life with people with diabetes. We want to educate them and help people with type 2 reverse it and get on with their life. And people with type 1 diabetes help them attain a normal blood sugar, a normal A1C, and then they can go live their life. They don't need to donate to us for the rest of their life and be partners for life. The ADA is completely captured by the big food corporations and big pharma. The American Diabetes Association, just as one example, they have a $100 million a year budget,

and they get the majority of that money not from the little bake sales that people who believe in them raise money and send in their $20 or $100. They get million-dollar checks from Pfizer and Eli Lilly and Kellogg's and General Mills and Kraft and all these guys. You don't think they'll take their phone call? If Coca-Cola calls in and says, hey, look, you can't say Coke's bad. We've got this new four-ounce little can of Coke. Why not promote that as less bad? The ADA is like, yeah, great, we love it, we'll do that.

That's the kind of crap that the American public is being bludgeoned with. The average person doesn't know what's going on. They just know that I've got diabetes. The American Diabetes Association said don't drink the big two-liter Coke. Drink this little four-ounce can. It's not as bad. Yeah, it's not as bad, it's less bad, but that does not make it good. And so the average person is completely confused about what to eat, what to drink. And it's because of this industry capture of the regulatory bodies of the federal government, but also the complete

murder capture of the American Diabetes Association and the American Heart Association and all these other associations and organizations that people should be able to trust. People are putting their health in the hands of the ADA, and the ADA is putting out a message that completely muddies the water. And so what people wind up doing is giving up and saying well screw it i guess i'll just drink the small can of coke and i'll eat whole grain bread instead of the white bread and i don't know i guess i'll use splenda splenda is a huge donator to the ada so a lot of the recipes include splenda that don't even mean it and so the they're captured they they are

beholden to that money and And so just as an example, the American Diabetes Society will never take a penny of money from Big Food or Big Pharma. If they send us a check for a million dollars, we'll tear it up, mail it back to them and tell them to shove it up their ass. We don't want it because we want to be a clear message of what people with diabetes should do to live their healthiest life. One example of many. Yep. Well, you know, this is so important to have the incentives properly aligned. You know, somebody was asking me recently, Dr. Berry, they said, you know, are there any experts you trust? I said, yeah, pilots, because our incentives are exactly aligned. Okay. They want to land,

I want to land. I trust them. Right. But, you know, you don't always get the best. So that's what we're learning. You know, for the love of money, a lot of things go off the rails. I think that's very smart. Tear that check up, send it back because, you know, these things corrupt over time. All right. So you're a practicing physician. And how did you get on this path? Like, when did you start to notice? Like, because I know if you went to regular medical school, this what we're talking about now was probably not part of your training, although maybe you went somewhere special. But just how did this come about for you? Yeah, I was trained at a state university in classic allopathic medicine, University of Tennessee in Memphis.

And we did have a small nutrition class that was one half of one semester, one hour a week. and then the other class that took up the other half was behavioral science so you can see how important that medical schools think nutrition and behavioral mental health is not very but that the entirety of that class was teaching us how to give nutrition to somebody that had third degree burns or had been in a car wreck and smashed their face, and so we had to feed them intravenously. That's 99% of what that class was. When it comes to the caring feeding of normal people in society, maybe 1% of the class was

that. And so the reason I'm even interested in this is because early in my medical career, I became severely obese and pre-diabetic. I weighed 297 pounds and had an A1C of 6.1. So I'm a, as you may be able to tell, I'm a Southern common sense country boy. One plus one has to equal two, whether you like it or not. And so I could not in good conscience go into patients' exam rooms and say, Hey, Chuck, you're overweight. You need to lose some weight. When the button of my shirt over my belly was in danger of popping.

Because here in Tennessee, Chuck would look down at my belly and go, Really, Doc? Okay, I'll work on that. I couldn't be that guy. So I had to fix my own severe obesity and my prediabetes because I've got kids and grandkids. I can't be dying prematurely. I've got people I love I want to hang out with and take care of. And so in my journey to figure out why the hell am I so fat,

I discovered primal diet, paleo diet, Dr. Atkins diet, and then through just hundreds of hours of basically going back to school. I've got to relearn nutrition because I don't know a damn thing about human nutrition. That's where I've come on the YouTube videos that I make now. That's where I get all that information is the hundreds of hours of research that I put in, looking not only at modern nutrition research, which in many cases is also captured by big pharma or by big food. And so you can't just blindly trust the modern nutrition research.

What I found most valuable was research, nutrition research and medical research from the 1930s and 1940s, much of it in German because back then the Germans were the leaders in all scientific fields. And so I'd have to put that into some kind of translation and get it translated into English so I could read it. But they had it all figured out back in the 30s and 40s. If you have type 2 diabetes, you need to avoid sugar and carbohydrates. The end. That's it. There's no like, oh no, you should eat the rainbow and you need to have lots of whole grain bread.

In the 30s and 40s, they'd be like, that's stupid. No, if you're a diabetic, you need to eat as few carbohydrates as possible. You need to eat no sugar. That will essentially reverse type 2 diabetes. And with somebody with type 1 diabetes, it will extend their life by 40 years just by following that simple advice. But if you ask the ADA now, they're like, oh, no, you can eat all the fruits and vegetables and all the whole grain bread. Don't eat white bread.

That's somehow magically bad. But you can eat whole grain bread. That's totally fine. No. This was well-known decades ago that if you're a diabetic, you don't eat that stuff. That's going to make you sicker. But the American Diabetes Association and all the modern nutrition research has been captured. They've been captured by big industry.

And they're like, here, here's a check for a million bucks. We want you to research. And guess what? We are a plant-based advocate. You know, that's what we believe in. And so when the researchers design the study, guess what they do? They email that to the company that funded the research. And if that company doesn't like the design of that study, they're like, no, no, no, we need you to tweak it

a little. Change this a little bit. Because what they're interested in is the outcome from the study that they want, Chris. They're not interested in, I want you to find out the truth. That's not what they're looking for. They're looking for something that's not going to harm people too quickly, but is going to show, oh, my product is healthy and fine for you to eat or drink. And that's what the majority of nutrition researchers, that's how they make their money, is by taking a big check from the almond industry or the pomegranate industry or the pea protein

industry. And then they'll do this huge study that costs 10 million bucks. But then guess what? Whoever wrote the biggest check, their product turns out to be pretty damn healthy. Interesting. So you healed yourself to start with. you how did you start spreading that with your patients so initially i thought low carb keto i thought that was just a weight loss hack right and and so i started recommending it to my most severely obese people people with the bmi of 35 40 or higher and because i didn't know if it was safe for everybody because I hadn't done all the research that I've subsequently done. And so as a doctor, a primary care doctor, what I look for is signal. And you probably look for this in your field too.

So if I give 100 of my patients a recommendation, eat lots of whole grains and eat lots of fruits, and then they all come back in three months or six months for their follow-up visit, then I look at their weight. I look at their blood pressure. I look at their blood sugar. Do I see a signal from that advice? And almost without exception, before I discovered low-carb keto carnivore,

I would see no signal from my dietary advice, which honestly used to consist of, you need to join Weight Watchers and join the gym if you were severely obese. Ignorant advice, and I apologize for anybody out there watching this. You're my former patient. I'm sorry. I was an idiot, okay? But when I started doing this, Chris, with my most severely obese patients, people that weighed 350, 450, 550, when they came back for their three or six-month follow-up, significant signal. They had lost 40 or 50 pounds in three to six months. And so then I would always check their lab work as well, but then I also noticed their

blood pressure's lower. That's weird. Maybe just from the weight loss. I would check their blood sugar. It's lower, maybe just from the weight loss. A1C, lower. Inflammatory markers's lower. That's weird. Maybe just from the weight loss. I would check their blood sugar. It's lower. Maybe just from the weight loss. A1C, lower. Inflammatory markers, lower.

Triglycerides, lower. Hemoglobin A1C and fasting insulin, all lower. These are all signals that they're moving back to a healthier metabolic state. And then also I would get comments every time. You know, Doc, I've got bad knee arthritis knee arthritis you know you've injected my knee before my knee's not hurting anymore since i've been eating like this is that does the diet do that and initially you know because patients look up to their doctor and so you'll get a lot of smoke blown at you like oh you saved my life oh this that the other and a smart doctor learns to ignore a lot of that. Otherwise, you get this huge big

head and arrogance and you get egotistical. You just ignore that stuff because patients look up to their doctor. Initially, I discounted that like, no, I don't think the diet does that. Now, knowing what I know, looking back, yes, 100% the diet is going to lower chronic inappropriate inflammation in all your joints, including that bad knee that may even be bone-on-bone arthritis. Yes, it's going to hurt less. Your neck pain's better?

Yes, the diet does that. Your back pain, your mental health. Now, more and more research is coming out that shows that a real whole food, low-carb, nutrient-dense, proper human diet is going to improve your mental health as well. The research coming from the mental health sphere on ketogenic diets is groundbreaking. When you read the results, you're like, I don't even know if I can believe this or not. It sounds almost like magic, but it's not magic. It's physiology. And now I think that we've had this paradigm shift in medicine that, yeah, I think most doctors believe humans are somehow magical.

They can just eat whatever and we'll give them some pills and injections and they'll be fine. No. What you eat is literally what you're made of, but also it's what you're inflamed from. It's why you're metabolically ill. And when you change what you eat and change it strictly enough for long enough, you're going to heal metabolically. All of your inflammatory markers are going to go back to normal. And so my initial signal back from my patients was so strong, I couldn't ignore that signal. And so for years I gave people the American Diabetes Association handout.

Oh, you're diabetic. Here, eat this. When those patients came back in three or six months, their A1C was higher. The blood sugar was higher. Their triglycerides were higher. They were no healthier. When I start recommending a very low-carbohydrate diet to people with diabetes, the signal was so strong it was deafening.

In many cases, people with early type 2 diabetes was so strong, it was deafening. In many cases, people with early type 2 diabetes completely reversed it back to normal. They were no longer type 2 diabetic, which is supposed to be impossible. Every medical student is taught that type 2 diabetes is a chronic, progressive condition. We don't know exactly what causes it. We think it's partly genetic. Food probably matters a little, but not much. Bio, psychosocial, it's stress, it's family. We don't really know. Just tell them to eat the ADA diet and take these three pills and this injection. But when you put that same person on a very low-carbohydrate diet, their type 2 diabetes goes away predictably. And so then I started to recommend this to anybody who was overweight or worse,

anybody who was pre-diabetic or worse, anybody who had hypertension, anybody who had high triglycerides. They all got the very, very low-carbohydrate diet. And I printed up like a 20-page flyer, and I would just hand them because I didn't have 30 minutes to spend explaining this. I'd be like, when you get home, read this. And then finally, my wife one day said, you know, you should start a YouTube channel. And I'm like, initial, my initial reaction was that's dumb. I'm a doctor. I don't have time to be on YouTube. But then she kept talking and I kept listening.

We have a good husband and we'll do. And finally, I'm like, maybe I should start a YouTube channel. And currently, we've got 3.2 million subscribers, and I don't even know how many millions of comments saying, oh, my God, this saved my life. And so thank you to my wife, Nisha, for getting through my hard-headedness and making me start a YouTube channel. But now I recommend this diet to virtually everyone around the world.

I don't care your ethnicity. I don't care your age. You're a newborn baby. You need to eat everyone around the world. I don't care your ethnicity. I don't care your age. You're a newborn baby. You need to eat a proper human diet. You're 100% Indian blood from the subcontinent. You need to eat a proper human diet. You're Asian. You're from China. You need to eat a proper human diet. We're all homo sapien sapien, all of us. Now, there's some bio-individuality, but 99.9% of us, I'm the same as you and the same of whoever is watching. We're the same. We're the same species.

So it would be like, you know, if the American Veterinary Association came out and said, well, you know, black cows should eat this diet and and white cows, and then spotted cows. No, they're all cows. They should all eat grass. That's self-evident, or it should be. But my contention is that a proper human diet is also self-evident when you start to look at all the research in its totality, including archaeological, anthropological, and paleoanthropological.

When you add that into the equation it's self-evident what a proper human diet is and it's also evident who should eat it every human on the planet well let's talk about that proper human diet and quick quick anecdote 10 years ago i was 51 and um i couldn't really do push-ups anymore i had ligaments were just, ah. I just chalked it up. I'm getting older. My knees, all this stuff. So I go to a functional medicine doc, and she puts me on it. First, she does a food sensitivity panel.

She's like, okay, you've got some things you're reacting to. We strip some stuff out. I got my diet organized, again, because I was eating standard American. And within six months, it all went away. But if I'd gone to my other doc, he would have put me on prednisone, maybe given me some cortisol shots and called it a day. Yeah, your first doctor was actually working with the cause. I was inflamed. I was just on fire. That's what was happening. Absolutely. Yeah, your first doctor was thinking about what's the root cause of Chris's problems,

and your second doctor was just parent-like repeating what he or she had been taught in medical school. It was, oh, I've got one tool. It's a prescription pad. That's the tool I'm going to use, whereas your first doctor was like, no, no, no. Chris's default state and the default state of every human watching this is good health, is vigorous, vibrant health, mental clarity. That's everybody's default setting. So many people have owned their disease and it's become part of their identity, part of their definition of who they are. Oh, I have the following things. No, that's not your definition. You are the product of thousands and thousands of successful reproductions.

If there had been only one failed reproduction in your family tree, you wouldn't be here. You are success, personified. That's what you are. There hasn't been one failure in your family tree where you wouldn't exist. And so I think people just don't understand that regardless, I'm 55. I feel better now at 55 than I did at 35. And the only reason that that's possible is not because of that line of supplements that I sell because I don't sell one. It's not because of the injections and the pills because I don't take any.

It's because I remove the slow poisons from my diet that are not part of my proper human diet. And I included all the foods that are part of my proper human diet. And there's a spectrum of a proper human diet that we can discuss if you like. But you're exactly right. Your first doctor did it exactly right she addressed the root cause all right dr barry let's pretend uh that we're going shopping together and we walk into just what an average supermarket somebody's going to be you know facing not a whole foods just safeway piggly w, whatever you got in your neighborhood, right? Take me on that shopping trip. Where do you guide me? Yeah. So the first thing we're going to do is we're going to stick to the outer aisle. We're

not going to go into the middle of the store at all because behavioral psychologists have figured out that that's where you put the products that you make the most profit from. And so what you'll find in the center of the supermarket, with a few exceptions but not predominantly, is things that they make a 10,000% markup because it's made out of three things predominantly. Vegetable oils, grains, wheat, rice, oats, corn, and sugar. And so that can be a tortilla wrap, that can be chips, that can be bread, that can be cereal. All of those ultra-processed things, the reason that they put that in the center of the store is because that's where people tend to gravitate, just human nature.

And so we're going to stick to the outer aisle. We're going to go to the meat section and the dairy section and the produce section. And in that section, that's usually in the produce, but that's literally what our entire shopping cart is going to be filled with. Predominantly meat, eggs, some dairy, some produce, depending. And so there's a spectrum of a proper human diet. Some people need to be low carb, which means under 100 total grams of carbs a day. A significant hunk of humans, their best health is right there. They can eat lots of fruits and vegetables and a little bit of properly made whole grain bread, like real sourdough.

Other people are more metabolically inflexible. They need to eat under 50 total grams of carbs a day. Some people like me who fatten very easily and develop pre-diabetes very easily, you need to think of it as a carbohydrate intake knob and just keep turning it down until the weight loss starts to happen and the A1C or the blood sugar starts to come down. So for me, if I get over 20 total grams of carbs a day, I'll start to, my belly will start to pooch, my blood sugar start to go up, my blood pressure, triglycerides. And so I've been a carnivore, which is at the extreme end of the proper human diet, which is as close to zero carb as you can possibly get, because even some carnivore things have one gram of carbohydrate

in the form of glycogen. So it's not zero carb, but it's damn close. But for me personally, that's where I have to hang out. Some people can eat 20 total grams, so they have a few vegetables, and it's perfectly fine metabolically. Other people can add quite a bit of fruits, a little bit of honey, a lot of dairy, and they do great. Other people cannot do that.

So there's a spectrum. So for me, I would just go to the meat section and then pick up a dozen eggs on the way out and a little bit of cheese as garnish and that's my diet. Other people could spend a lot of time in the produce section, but no human on the planet needs to take home a single thing that's in a plastic bag or in a cardboard box that has a logo on it, especially if it says keto on the front of the box, that's definitely junk food. If it says low fat, that's junk food. If it says cholesterol free, that's junk food. Those are marketing slogans. Those are not health claims. They're marketing slogans. And so all that cereal that has the American Heart Association little heart logo on it, that's a marketing gimmick. That doesn't mean that that's good

for your heart. Although the average consumer would think the AHA says this is fine. Raisin bran is a prime example. Raisin bran is pure sugar. You're eating sugar with a side of sugar on top of your sugar. That's what Brazen Brand is. I'm sure there's people watching this going, wait, what? Yes, trust me. Just look into it. Start watching a few of my videos and you'll quickly go, holy crap. Everything in the middle of the store is sugar with some grains, wheat, rice, oats, corn,

and some vegetable seed oil, canola oil, soybean oil, peanut oil, cottonseed oil. That's what everything's made out of. And so when they tell you to eat the rainbow, and you're like, okay, I'll have a tortilla wrap and some nachos and a donut for dessert, all three of those things are exactly the same ingredients with a little bit of food coloring, a little bit of flavoring. It's sugar, grains, and vegetable seed oils. Those things get the most subsidies from

the federal government. There is no broccoli subsidy. You don't get a subsidy for raising broccoli. You're like, wait, what? I thought broccoli was healthy. It is, but somehow the federal government can only figure out how to subsidize wheat, rice, oats, corn, and canola oil and soybean oil and sugar, sugar beets and sugar cane. And also they can still subsidize tobacco a little bit. And you're like, so there's no broccoli, no asparagus subsidy? No, no, those farmers,

they have to get out there and root all good eye. Why is the federal government subsidizing grains, sugar, vegetable seed oils, and a little bit of tobacco? Are those the four healthiest things? I mean, if they are the healthiest, then bravo to the federal government for subsidizing them and making it more profitable to grow those crops. But if they're not, then what

the hell is the federal government doing? Well, now, Dr. Barry Lott, you know, people will say, wow, you know, eating healthy is so expensive. And I'm sensitive to that. Of course, I don't think anything's quite as expensive as cheap food in the long run. But how does somebody, how do you talk to people who say, wow, that sounds expensive? You know, what am I going to do, eat filet mignon? You know, grass-fed beef is 40 bucks a pound. What are you talking about here? Right.

And so that is a valid point especially in our current economic climate it's a super valid point there are hundreds of thousands of americans who sleep in their car right now because they can't afford rent and can't definitely can't afford a mortgage how are they going to eat a proper human diet it's absolutely possible here's how you do it you go to the supermarket and you buy the 30 count container of eggs. And it can be the cheapest eggs. It does not have to be the expensive eggs. The cheapest eggs in the supermarket are better for you than the most expensive loaf of bread in the supermarket. Okay. You buy the 30-pack. That's like literally 25 cents an egg when you do the math. Then you go over and you find the ground beef, the cheapest ground beef, the 70-30,

and you buy 10 pounds of that if you've got a freezer. And you cut that up into serving sizes and put it in your freezer. Okay? You buy the big stick of bologna. And I know people are like, bologna is a processed meat. That's not healthy. Yes, yes, it is. Bologna is just ground up animal meat. That's what bologna is. And then a lot of people get grossed out and say, well, they probably put peckers and noses and livers and kidneys in there. Yes, they do. That's some of the most nutrient-dense food on the planet. When I eat a hot dog, which is often, I hope that they put the spleen and the testicles and the ears and the noses and the snouts and the tails. I hope they put all that in there because that makes it even more ancestral, even more nutrient-dense. That's what human beings should be eating. And so you can buy the cheapest bologna, the cheapest hot dogs, spam as a health food.

There are people right now whose head is exploding. They're like, what are these guys? Who is this guy? A hundred percent, yes. You want to look at the hot dogs, the bologna, the processed meat, and you want to find the ones with the least amount of sugar and make sure that it's the least amount of added chemicals and colors and crap. But that's still going to be way cheaper than the artisanal this, that, and the other,

and this old, look at this, it's got seeds on top. People spend so much money on just stuff that doesn't meet the definition of the word food. That then they're out of money and they can't buy real food. But yeah, you can absolutely eat a proper human diet on a very strict budget. Unless you're on the WIC program, which is Women, Infants, and Children. If you're that poor and you've got young ones, then if you've ever seen somebody's wick card what you can get with wick you can't get any meat you cannot meet with on the women's infants and children's program

infants and children need the most nutrient-dense food that they can you can possibly put in their mouth they are literally growing a human body who are pregnant or breastfeeding, they need the most nutrient-dense food that they can ingest. But now they can get plenty of fruit juice, which is just liquid sugar. They can get plenty of bread. They can get lots of cereal, which is just sugar. But they can't get any meat. They can get a few eggs, a little bit of cheese, one pound a month of cheese for a family of five. That's what WIC will get you. One pound. It's astonishing that these women are trying to get pregnant, breastfeed, have a baby, make a baby

in their womb, and then raise this child to be a healthy adult, and you get a pound of cheese a month for a family of five. You get no meat whatsoever. No no beef you cannot get beef with women's infants and children's the week program it's like what are we trying to raise a generation of people who are metabolically sick because if chris and i if we were both evil evil and we took over the world and we're like we want to raise a generation of people who have low testosterone, who are mentally very cloudy, who are obese. They can still work their little job, but they're not going to be out lifting weights or jogging. They're not going to be rock climbing.

They're going to be low testosterone individuals, men and women, both. They're going to be sick, and they're going to be mentally cloudy, and they're going to be tired, chronically fatigued. We would feed them exactly what the federal government tells you you should eat in the MyPlate program. That's exactly the diet I would give if I wanted a generation of people whose testosterone was so low that they could function but they could never fight back. They could never get together and get their heads together and come up with a plan and then stick to the plan. They could never do that. They'd tap out. They're like, I'm tired.

I'm going to take a nap. Then you should eat the way the WIC program teaches you to eat. You should eat the way the SNAP benefits. You know on SNAP benefits, if you wanted to, you could spend your entire monthly allotment on potato chips, Pepsi-Cola, and Ding Dongs. You could spend all of it, and that could be your monthly diet. The federal government's fine with that. How could you? So is this a conspiracy?

I don't blame people who have become completely off in the deep water of conspiracy theory. Because it would make sense, if you were trying to raise a population of people that could never organize and fight back, this is exactly what you would feed them. And so I don't blame those people for thinking that way. I personally don't think it's a conspiracy.

I think it's a perfect blend of incompetence, ignorance, laziness, and probably some evil at the very, very top top but the vast majority of people they mean well but they're just too lazy and too ignorant to put their thinking caps on and say wait a minute let's why is this obesity epidemic why is it doing the hockey stick thing the childhood diabetes why is it doing that when i was first training as a medical student, there might be one or two children's diabetes clinics in the country. There might be one dialysis clinic in a bigger city.

Okay, now I live in my closest little town is Camden, Tennessee. There's two dialysis clinics here. There's as many dialysis clinics as there is pawn shops and payday loan places. Why does every small town in America need a dialysis clinic? How does that even make sense to people unless we're slowly poisoning the entire population? That's what we're doing. Is it intentional or is it accidental? I don't know, and I don't think most people should care,

because in the end, the result is the same. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, Ken, so I don't know what the intention is, but I'm this kind of guy. I figure that if you flip me a coin and it comes up heads 15 times in a row, I'm going to think that might not be a fair coin, you know? It might be a fair coin, but I'm starting to suspect things about flip five, right? So we watched COVID happen, right? Flip. Hey, everybody should stay inside. Flip. You have to wear these masks even if you're three

years old. Flip. Everybody has to get a vaccine even if you have zero risk from this thing. Flip. We don't want you to get any sunlight. Flip. We want you to lose your job and be stressed out. Flip. And everything they did, they didn't accidentally get one thing right that was on the side of health. Right?

Yep. And the one that bothered me the most, because this is the hardest data I've got. I've got 50 papers. They are rock solid. Vitamin D. Yep. Nobody who had 50 nanograms per ml blood serum was in the ICU. Nobody.

It was clear as day. How did that not translate into somebody saying, maybe you should take some vitamin D at the national level? So you can't get a patent on vitamin D. It's a naturally occurring molecule. You can go out in the sun and get it for free. Or you can eat vitamin D rich foods and get plenty of vitamin D. You can't make a billion dollars on that.

Nobody was interested. I think COVID has done more to wake people up that whole fiasco. I know it did for me because I suspected a lot of stuff before because I was seeing too many heads come up in the coin flip. I'm like, well, maybe it's just chance. I don't know. But I can remember back in February of that year, because I read the foreign media, I read probably 20 newspapers a day, not from the United States, from other countries. And I was seeing this strong signal come from the East, like, oh, my God, what is this? And I actually made two YouTube videos about COVID, which was coronavirus back then, right?

And I made two videos because initially the R-naught and the lethality, it looked scary as hell. And I was like, oh, my God, this is bad. And so I made two YouTube videos and got in trouble with YouTube because back then I was erring on the side of, oh, my God, this is bad. I was being too conservative. And I actually got dinged by YouTube for that, and I made both of those videos unlisted eventually. They both had hundreds of thousands of views just in a few hours because nobody was talking about this in early February of that year. And I'm like, dude, y'all need to all have, you need gloves, you need masks, you need probably face shields because if this is aerosolized, we're in a world of hurt. And then come to find out, it had the lethality of just a bad flu and the r naught was not anywhere close to measles like it initially looked like this stuff if you were in a gymnasium with somebody

they were on the other side of the gym you're probably going to catch this that's how infectious it looked to start with but turns out none of that was true and so now you're you're left with like chris said all these it's heads every time. But then that turns out later, no, actually it wasn't heads. It was tails. We just reported it as heads. Sorry about that. Forgive us.

You know, we've made 82 errors in just literally sequentially. We've made all these errors, but we're sorry about that. But you still need to trust us. I think a lot of people got woke up by that, and I think that's a very good thing. I think it's a great thing. And so millions of people now understand, oh, I'm not going to take their advice. Here's how bad it is for me, Ken. If the FDA says don't do it, I'm kind of inclined to do it and vice versa, right?

Literally, I think it's an okay starting point, right? Use Adelhelm for Alzheimer's. Like, like nope i'm not going to do that yeah right just start there and i think currently that is a great metric that people can use did the ada recommend it don't do it did the fda recommend it don't do that did the cdc recommend it definitely don't do that don't do that. Did the CDC recommend it? Definitely don't do that. Don't do that. But here's the danger. I think that's currently probably the right metric to gauge by. But you see the danger of this if we don't have institutions that we can trust. Because one of these days, there is going to be a virus.

There is going to be a bacteria. That's going to be real damn bad. There's cycles of this. This has happened from the beginning of recorded history. And even before, there are pandemics. There are plagues. These things do happen. And so let's just say tomorrow, all of a sudden, we see in Africa, oh my God, here's a real pandemic level that's going to kill 30% of the population. And the CDC and the World Health Organization both posted all over their social media. I'd love to know your prediction. What percentage of the adult population would go?

Half. Half, 50%, yeah. And so we would be decimated as a society the third of us would die because we don't have institutions we can trust that's very dangerous i don't know what the solution to that is i know in my little part of the world what we're trying to do but i mean what are we going to do about that that's a a huge problem. Well, I mean, just look at it. So, you know, you know this very well, but for everybody else, no drug is 100% safe. In fact, there's a bell curve of responses. You mentioned that some people need no carbs and some can have up to 100 grams,

and there's this curve of sort of response to that, right? Well, that's true for aspirin. It's true for vaccines. It's true for everything. But they tried to pretend like that suddenly went away, went zero there was zero risk off of these vaccines and so what i've learned is that the vaccine compensation injury program v-sip is it's like handed out like six fourteen hundred dollar checks so far you know it's funded with billions lawyers feasting around that making sure you can't make it through the gauntlet to because they just so what what would

preserve trust is for the government to come out and say listen nothing's 100 safe on balance this is a very good thing to do but for the people who are injured we're going to take care of them and we're going to take care of them well right that would be fair that would start to open the door a little bit but their insistence that it's black and white, 100% safe, is trust-destroying for me. Completely. And for the average person who has an IQ above 100, you're like, no, I'm never listening to them again about anything. But, yeah, I think if people in positions of authority started to publicly apologize

and say, we got this completely wrong. Like we went beyond just wrong. We were like turbocharged wrong. And we're very sorry for that. We're going to try to do better in the future. Here's how we're changing our policies so that in the future we can do better. Also, I think that a long list of people should be fired. Has anybody been fired for all this? I haven't seen the press release where anybody got fired. People need to lose their careers over this because this was not just, oh, we messed up a little bit. This is, we completely, completely screwed the pooch.

100%. We got everything wrong. But nobody's been fired. Nobody's apologized. No policy has been changed. That's that's a very strong signal to me that I shouldn't trust anything they say currently. And for the foreseeable future, that makes me sad to have to say that. But I think that's entirely true. Well, it is. So this brings us to the idea that sometimes things are just past reform.

I don't spend any time working to try and reform the CDC, the FDA. Right. You just I worked in corporate business for a while and sometimes in a merger you had a decision to make. Are we going to blend these cultures or are we just going to fire one side of the aisle? Usually that was the right answer. It's very difficult to change culture. And so the culture of the FDA is broken in CDC. It's just broken. There's no I don't think we're going to hire a better manager to change culture. And so the culture of the FDA is broken. And CDC, it's just broken. There's no, I don't think we're going to hire a better manager to fix that. So what do you do? Well, good news.

You know, I work with the FLCCC, and I know you've got the Diabetes Association, right? So people are just coming forward and they're building those parallel systems. Like, we'll just start over, right? And you know what? In 100 years, those will be corrupt too. Maybe that's just human, you know, the sweep of things. Perhaps. Right. That that absolutely could be one of the laws of human nature. If you apply the laws over centuries, everything becomes corrupt.

Eventually, that could absolutely be true. That could be the reason the founding father said something about the tree of liberty and how it's watered. I don't know. But yeah, that could be true. But regardless, we're in a severe dilemma right now. We've got to come up with parallel organizations who are transparent, who can be trusted, who not only are trustworthy, but we can verify that. At this stage, I think society needs verification. This morning we had the first Zoom board meeting of the American Diabetes Society.

We're going to post that board meeting on the website. And we're going to post every board meeting is going to be publicly available. You can see what we talked about for better or for worse. And I think people are going to need, going forward, they're going to need that level of transparency. Or they're just not going to trust. If whatever you are has the word association or agency or society or organization, they're like, I don't trust them. And I don't blame people for feeling that way. I think we're going to have to go above and beyond with transparency.

And like here's our finances. Here's who we've accepted donations from. Here's our board meetings, our private board meetings. You can go watch them, just like you're sitting there in the room. I think people need that level of transparency. I think we've lost so much trust that it's just our default setting now is I don't trust you. And you can't blame people for that. I agree. I agree. people for that i i agree i agree so um how much of of the metabolic disaster that's unfolding in

the united states do you think would be remedied if people could just start eating what you call the primal human diet yeah the proper human diet would reverse 80 percent of the proper metabolic diseases type 2 diabetes. And so everybody's a grown adult. They can do whatever they want. So there will be people who say, look, I don't want to eat that way. I'm going to eat what I want, and I'll just take the medicine. Fine.

Enjoy your life. You get to make that decision. But the problem is the vast majority of adults in the United States and other parts of the world have been tricked. They've been lied to. They've been misled, perhaps accidentally, but I doubt that. And they don't know what to do. And once you tell somebody like that, you'd be surprised, Chris, at how motivated people are.

When you say, actually, you can improve your own health, you just do these simple things, they're like, why didn't somebody tell me this 10 years ago? I would have totally done that. I just didn't know. I think that's the majority of people. I don't, there are a few people who were like, I don't give a damn. I'm going to eat the honey buns. I don't care. Great. Go do you. That's fine. But I, my current philosophy is, is that the majority of people, if they knew better, they would do better immediately. And so I would say 100% of type 2 diabetes would be gone. Can you imagine the corporations that would crumble, the bankruptcies, if we erased type 2 diabetes as a thing that you would need medicines for, that you would need injections for, that you would need special appliances. Oh, you lost your leg because of an amputation because of type 2 diabetes, so now you need a prosthesis, you need a walker, you need a cane. Literally entire industries

would crumble. Hypertriglyceridemia would go completely away on a proper human diet. There wouldn't be such a thing unless you had a specific, very rare genetic defect. Type 1 diabetes would not have all the complications that they have. They would have a normal A1C, a normal blood sugar, and they'd also use 80% less insulin. So everybody's bitching and whining about the price of insulin. What if you just needed 80% less? That sounds like a root cause solution to me. You just don't need as much. Well, and besides the disruption of all those predatory industries out there,

think about what it would mean to all the families who have more years and vitality in those years with their family and their loved ones. And the communities would now have all these people with energy who are capable of coming out into the community and helping to build it. We're not stuck home sick on our sofa. It's huge what this could be. Just imagine if every grandmother and grandfather that's currently in the nursing home had a stroke, had a heart attack, lost both legs, whatever. Imagine if we had the collective wisdom of all those fathers and grandmothers, and then a bunch of them were in the graveyard, right? They're dead. We already lost them. If we had that collective

intelligence and wisdom from all those centuries of lived life, we had that available to us. And then imagine the grandkids not having to go to the nursing home and see grandpa and he doesn't smell great. Imagine if that grandfather were home out in the backyard, teaching that kid how to build a fire or teaching that grandkid how to kick a soccer ball. Imagine just the trillions of dollars of net benefit to our society

if we had all those people who we've lost, either lost to death or lost because they're effectively completely disabled, either mentally or physically. They can't really be the elder, the patriarch or the matriarch of the family. They can't do that because they're physically or mentally crippled now because of this disease process that was entirely preventable and entirely reversible. It would revolutionize society and it will. That's my goal. It would revolutionize society. And it will. That's my goal. It will revolutionize society

when we're not losing aunts and uncles and mothers and fathers and grandmothers to just stupid chronic disease that's completely reversible. Just think of the benefit to the churches, to the organizations, to the family units that you now have this guy who literally has decades of learned life experience, wisdom, that's what wisdom is, right? He's already made all those mistakes. And he can help his grandkids or his great-grandkids and say,

no, no, no, no, no, don't do that, I did that. Here's the way to do it properly. Imagine the benefit to the society. It makes me want to cry thinking of everything that's just been wasted that we could have at our fingertips if we had not listened to the mainstream narrative. Indeed, indeed. You know, I have, I'm sure you have a thousand compared to this, but you know, my forums at Peak Prosperity, it's full of people saying, ah, I had a lifetime of, I had irritable bowel, I had Crohn's, I had a lifetime of, I had irritable bowel,

I had Crohn's, I had eczema, I had like something really debilitating, I was sleeping poorly. They have all these things. And you want to know the number one thing that cured people was the carnivore diet. Like that, that's just the one that just like, because you get this really quick, you said signal. These people said, you know, I was just going to try something too. Within two weeks, they had their own personal signal. They're sleeping better. The flare-ups were gone. Cold sores disappeared. Whatever the story was, right?

I've heard lots and lots of people getting really quick signals who have what would otherwise be debilitating kind of, you know, things that interfere with your daily function kind of stuff. Yep. We actually have several documented cases now of multiple sclerosis going into complete remission and we've got the documentation if anybody doubts this i can show you the mris and not only the symptoms going into complete remission them feeling normal and healthy again but the mri the magnetic resonance imaging of their brain that showed the white matter lesions they they're gone. And so now I am still blown away by that because, you know, like I said, initially I thought keto was just a weight loss hack. You do it temporarily, lose the weight, and then go back to whatever. I'm coming now to believe that the majority of all disease is diet-related,

if not diet-caused. How are you going to go on an all-meat and egg diet and your multiple sclerosis go away? And then we repeat the MRI of your brain and those documented lesions that were in your white matter, they're now gone. And you're a normal functioning person again. The carnivore diet is the most powerful

therapeutic intervention I have ever seen and that includes all pharmaceuticals I've ever prescribed and been around. I have never seen a therapeutic intervention work like the carnivore diet. Now, let me be very clear. I'm not saying everybody needs to eat the carnivore diet for the rest of their life, but absolutely you need to try it. If you're suffering from any chronic

condition, you need to do 90 days of beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. You just need to do that. You just need to shut up and just trust me this 1% and do it for 90 days. Beef, butter, bacon, and eggs, you can eat as much as you want, as often as you want. Eat until you're full. You don't portion control. You don't calorie count. You just eat beef, butter, bacon, and eggs until you're full, and then go play.

When you're hungry again, you eat beef, butter, bacon, and eggs again. It doesn't matter the ratios. You don't have to count macros. You don't count calories. You just eat beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. Every time you're hungry, you're going to be astounded

at what happens to your health. Stuff that you thought was just part of who you were, turns out that's chronic inappropriate inflammation. And it gets better and goes away. And you're going to be like, are you shitting me? You're telling me I've been suffering for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years with this, and it was my diet all along? And here's why I think it can't, why this happens, Chris.

When you look back in the paleoanthropological literature, which I am increasingly in, researching, I'm an armchair paleoanthropologist. I am not formally trained in this. There are certain things that the homo sapien sapien, that's humans, we've been doing for the longest period of time. Remember I talked about adaptation earlier, right? We have been playing in the sun, mostly unclothed. We have been drinking water. We have been breathing air.

And we have been eating meat. Those four things, and being physically active. So those five things, we have been doing those for longer than we have been doing any other thing that human beings do. And so when somebody comes at you with a plant-based diet, a vegan diet, they mean well, but they have not looked at the totality of the research that I have looked at. Human beings have been eating meat for way longer than we've been eating wheat, rice, oats, corn,

than we've been eating all of these modern, all the modern vegetables that you think of in the supermarket. They didn't even exist. Sometimes just a few hundred years back, there was not such a thing as that vegetable. And if any of you guys have ChatGPT or something like that, just ask the search engine, just say, how long have carrots been available for humans to eat in their current form? Ask that question, and you'll be like, what?

400 years? So before that, humans didn't eat carrots? Exactly right. Oats, yeah. Humans have only been eating oats for 4,500 years. That's the first recorded evidence that humans were producing and eating oats for human consumption. Before that they were for animals. No human ate oats. And then even after that, the poorest, the slaves and the prisoners, that's who you fed oats to. Same for wheat,

same for rice, same for corn. That was prisoner food. That was slave food. That was poverty food. Nobody who could do better ever ate that stuff. And now it's promoted to us. This is the best diet for you. Eat all the wheat, rice, oats, and corn and put some canola oil on top of it. And if you want to put some sugar, it's fine. It's fine. It's healthy. That's a slave diet. That's the diet that you fed to people that you didn't give a damn whether they lived or died. As long as you could get them out and make them work and put out some kind of productivity, you didn't care if they lived 10 years or 40 years. You could care less about their health. They have type 2 diabetes. Who gives a damn? They're slaves. I don't care about their health. I'm not going to check their blood sugar. I just want them to do

their job or I'll beat them up or kill them. That's the kind of diet that people are being told is healthy now. Before 12,000 years ago, no human being ever ate grains. Ever. If you were starving and you found some wild wheat, of course you would eat it. But by choice, no human ever ate grains. We've only been eating vegetable seed oils for the last few decades. Look it up if you don't believe me. Nobody was eating canola oil more than 40 or 50 years ago. It was not a thing. It's a modern invention. Now when it comes to modern inventions, I'm all for them. I love technology. But you have to realize that your body is an ancient, ancient thing that's been in the crucible of an evolutionary

experiment for millions of years. Evolution has already done this experiment. We don't need modern nutrition research. This research has been done. Human beings should eat mostly meat. And it's fine if you want to add some eggs, add some nuts. In some parts of the world, we ate mostly seafood. Guess what? That's still meat, right? If we found eggs, we ate them, but it was very rare that you found a nest of eggs. The modern chicken lays an egg every day. They were descended from the red jungle fowl. Red jungle fowl did not lay an egg every day. They had a mating season, just like every other wild animal. If you found a clutch of red jungle

fowl eggs, you ate the hell out of them. Yes, but you found them once a year, predominantly meat. And also keep in mind this. I don't know how important this is. I'm researching it right now. But every egg that we ever ate before we domesticated the red jungle fowl was always a fertilized egg. Without exception, we never ate an unfertilized egg. Does that matter? Does it not? That's my current rabbit hole that I'm

going into because when an egg is fertilized, it's not laid by that hen for 24 to 36 hours. As soon as that egg is fertilized, immediately the proteins begin to change. Immediately. They begin to refold and change because it's building a chicken or whatever that fowl is, right? Does that matter for us when we eat them? I bet it does, but I don't know for sure yet. Tune in six months from now when my research is complete and I'll have an answer for you. But all these things matter and need to be thought about. What were humans, what have we

been eating for the longest period of time? That we can prove in the literature. Is it broccoli? No. Is it carrots? No. Is it wheat? No. It's meat. We were eating meat, which includes seafood, things that creep, crawl, run, fly, swim. That's what we were eating for the longest period of time. When archaeologists talk about stone tools, they're being euphemistic, Chris.

Those are stone weapons. That's what every single stone tool is, is a weapon to kill and cut up an animal. We've never found a stone rake or a stone plow. We've never found a stone, no, we've never found a stone implement that was used for agriculture. Agriculture started 12,000 years ago after a cataclysm happened. Nobody's sure yet what happened, whether it was an asteroid, whether it was a bunch of volcanoes, whether it was a combination.

But basically the cataclysm of 12,000-ish years ago, plus human hunting, all the megafauna, the creatures that weighed over 100 pounds, were basically rendered extinct. Here in the United States, we used to have mammoths. We used to have actual elephants here. We had actual camels here. We had ground sloths that were as big as a Volkswagen. We had all these fat megafauna running around.

That's what we ate. We hunted some of them to extinction, and then whatever happened 12,000 years ago, and then all of a sudden it's like basically we were forced. It was not an agricultural revolution. It was a devolution. We were faced with a choice. You either learn how to eat plants and grow plants, or you starve to death and you become extinct. That's what we were faced with, and being as resilient and intelligent as we are

because of this meat-evolved brain from from eating fatty meat we were able to say god bless i hate vegetables but i guess we'll figure it out and we did figure it out but now when you see us put cows in feedlots and we feed them inappropriate foods to fatten them up this is this is an anthropological memory this is we are trying to literally mimic the megafauna that we used to hunt because they were marbled and fatty. We're trying to replicate that in the feedlot when we try to fatten up hogs and cows. Really fat. That's what we're trying to do.

We've got this species memory of what we used to eat. We're trying to mimic that. A proper human diet always includes meat. Without exception, I don't care what ethnicity, what religion. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings. I really truly am. But it's the truth. If you take anybody of any religion, any ethnicity, and you go back enough generations, Chris, do you know what their primary food was?

Meat. Without exception. I don't care where you're from. I don't care your religion. If you go back enough hundreds of generations, your ancestors ate meat. Your heritage is to eat meat. Okay? Your family tradition, if you go back far enough, is to eat meat every time you can get your hands on it.

That's just the truth of the matter. And I'm sorry. I know that offends some people, but that's just the truth of the matter and i'm sorry i know that offends some people but that's just the truth well not only does it offend some people um but we have another problem on our hands which is that the wef and and they're saying that we shouldn't eat meat anymore maybe eat bugs and i have this whole ken here's i'm i'm with you we can just look at how humans used to behave, and I cannot find a single culture anywhere that organized around eating bugs. They might eat a grub every so often, but not something once it's formed, a chitinous shell. I have a belief that we're not supposed to eat that, because if we would, there would be some farmers in the North Sahara who make a great feast out of the locusts when they come. And nobody does that.

I've actually looked into this quite a bit, and there are multiple cultures that do eat insects of some type. It's typically in the larval stage when it doesn't have the shell, right? But there are many, and so insects have always been looked on as a fallback food, as a poverty food. So if you're starving to death, hell yes, eat the bugs. Of course, you don't want to starve to death, but if what you're trying to do is optimize your health, the majority of your diet's going to be meat.

And I think it's very telling that all of these organizations spontaneously, Chris, all at the same time, they've just discovered that a plant-based diet is the healthiest diet for humans and for planet Earth. And if you want to include some insects, that's fine. How did the World Health Organization and all these other organizations spontaneously come to this same conclusion at almost the same exact moment in time? It's baffling to me how they all discovered that at the same time. And then when you look at the research, for instance, the research that the World Health Organization labeled red meat a possible carcinogen. When you look at

that research, it's all observational research that can only show a possible weak association. There is no randomized controlled trial. There is no even meaningful observational research because observational research can give us meaningful conclusions. When you do an observational research study on does smoking cause lung cancer, you see a hazard ratio of 15, 20, 25, 30. Strong signal. It still doesn't prove it, but it's sure enough is sketchy, right? You probably ought to not smoke if you don't want lung cancer. The hazard ratios of the red meat is a possible carcinogen, 1.18. And Chris knows that a hazard ratio of 1.0, that means

there's zero effect. And so this is 1.18. Now, the newest study that everybody's seen lately, that red meat might cause diabetes, type 2 diabetes. The hazard ratio for that, Chris, are you ready for this? It's stunning. It's ground shaking. Hold on.

1.10. That's the hazard ratio that red meat will cause type 2 diabetes. Error bars of probably 0.25. They definitely crossed the 1.0 line big time, yes. It's like it's a joke. It could be a joke. It could be the onion, right? It's like, what? Are you punking me?

That's it? One point one zero. And so therefore, I'm going to stop eating red meat that humans have eaten for before we were homo sapiens apian for two and a half million years. I'm going to quit eating red meat because you found a hazard ratio of one point one zero. There's an expletive that's applicable here, but I'm not going to use it because I respect your audience. Thank you. Thank you. So to close this out, you know, you said something before that I think, here's what we have to do. We have to flip the narrative, right? And we're all, we're humans, so we're a narrative machine, right? Written word came much, much later and all that.

So what's our narrative? So you said it before. I think this is important. It bears repeating because they've sold me the wrong narrative. I am embarrassed to tell you, back when i was a graduate student there was this whole let's get rid of fat and i bought fat free cookies and all of that stuff because they were marketed all over the place right and i was like oh maybe that's what a stupid idea that was okay but what's the narrative we have to flip you said it it's that health is actually our baseline yes that's That's the baseline. And the sickness is the departure.

And they have me flipped otherwise. No, you have to work really hard. You got to go to the gym. You got to go to the right doctor. You got to take Ozempic. You got to do all this. You do all this, consume all this stuff, and maybe you get to health. But you'll fall off that real quick if you stop.

You know, it's just exactly backwards, isn't it? So I'll give you an example. We have several paraplegics in our group who have reversed their obesity and reversed their type 2 diabetes. They're paraplegic. They can't go run on the treadmill. They can't go do squats and deadlifts and they can't go out and play an hour of basketball. They're in a wheelchair. But they reverse their obesity, and they reverse their type 2 diabetes just by eating a very, very low-carbohydrate diet. We've had so many people put on muscle effortlessly. They're like, does this diet put muscle in you? It's like initially I was like, no, diets don't do that, of course. But now that I understand the biochemistry and the physiology,

there's a baseline level of muscularity that humans just have if they're fed properly. Just like animals in the wild that lay around and sleep all day. They're muscular, right? How is that possible? It's because they eat a species-appropriate diet. And when we do that, if you're under-muscled, you're going to put on some natural muscle. You're going to start losing that layer of unhealthy fat. Now, some fat's good on humans. We need a certain percentage, but most of us have way too much.

But, yeah, you're exactly right. The default setting for everybody watching this, including you, I'm talking to you, your default setting is good, vibrant, vigorous health, mental health and physical health. And if you don't currently believe that, it's because you've been misled. Time to flip that story. Just let's do it. Let's do it. All right. Well, Dr. Kenberry, would you be willing to come on? I think we're going to put together a webinar to help decode this because I know for a lot of people, this is confusing territory, right, and all of that. So we want to put on a webinar to help people understand both really what we're up against, but most importantly, exactly what we can do about it.

So would you be willing to come on for that? Yeah, it would be an honor. I'd be happy to. Oh, thank you. So we'll be assembling that shortly for anybody watching this. Meanwhile, we've been talking with Dr. Ken Berry. You can go to drberry.com. You can find all kinds of awesome stuff, good website, expert guidance there. There's resources. You've got a community there I've seen, and you put out latest insights, all of that. And as well, your book, Lies My Doctor Told me. Were there many lies? Well, there's about 27 lies in the current volume. We're working on a second edition that's going to have about 20 more lies,

especially some that occurred around 2019, 2020. So there will be a few more lies in the new edition. But, yeah, I have lies my doctor told me. Also, kicking ass after 50. in the new edition, but yeah, I have Lies My Doctor Told Me, also Kicking Ass After 50, but again, flipping the narrative because most people over 50 think they're washed up and done. That's not actually how it's supposed to be. You're actually supposed to be at your best after 50, and then also Common Sense Labs because many doctors, as we discussed earlier, don't order the right labs. They're completely blind to your metabolic disease because they don't order the labs

you need. And this book teaches you how to ask for and receive the right labs, whether your doctor wants to do it or not. So I think all those are important. It's important for people to understand that you've got more power than you think you do. You think your doctor is your boss or your daddy. Your doctor is your learning health partner who works for you. And you can get the labs that you need.

You can get the foods that you need. But you just have to know what the truth is. Excellent. So really looking forward to that. Of course, you can find Dr. Ken on Twitter and on YouTube, of course. Great channel there. Again, well over 3.2 million followers there, subscribers to that. So, Ken, thank you so much for your time today.

Have I left anything out where people can find you? I don't think so. I think that's it. I appreciate the opportunity. I'm a fanboy. I've been a big fan of Chris's for years. I'm a member of the Peak Prosperity group. I love everything Chris Martinson does.

You guys need to just agree. If Chris says it, you can trust Chris Martinson does. You guys need to just agree. If Chris says it, you can trust Chris Martinson. Thank you. Thank you. High praise indeed. High praise. I'm just, I like my, I like truth. I, and I, that's all. I just dig until I find the truth. For the better most of the time, isn't it? Always is. Always is. All right. Dr. Kenberry, thank you so much for your time today. I'm sure this will be the first of many and really looking forward to helping people get their health back. Thank you so much, Chris. Have a good one.