Perfect Day with Jessica Knappett - EP 41: Toussaint Douglass

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Joining Jess this week is the very funny, very sleep deprived Toussaint Douglass! Comedian, writer and big fan of the Natural History Museum, Toussaint and Jess chat all about triple chocolate digestives, parenthood, rollerskating in the park and aliens. We also discover Toussaint’s secret for staying cool, calm and collected… lavender spray.  Like and subscribe for brand-new episodes every Thursday. Follow us on Instagram @perfectdaycast. And, why not get in touch? Email us at [e-mail] A Keep It Light Media Production Sales and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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With this card, you never miss out on getting the most points on everyday purchases. The PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard, the card for living unlimited. Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. Alright then. I've inadvertently created the first silent podcast. Hello Perfect Dayers, I'm Jessica Knappett and you are taking your money and getting

off my property. Welcome to Perfect Day. It's another beautiful day. Today I talk to one of my buddies from Outsiders. Have you seen Outsiders? That was a show I was on that was sort of like an adult Scouts. You had to earn badges from David Mitchell who was essentially a humorous scout leader. Today's guest is Two St Douglas, a very funny comedian and writer. Yes, he's sleep deprived. Yes, he's high on triple choc digestives. But my god, I haven't laughed like you're about to hear in ages. We go straight in with the chat. I mean he's he is it's a source of consternation for him. He wasn't happy about it but I don't do a hard intro. People need to know this

and you should be learning this by now. Anyway, Tucson, he tells us about fatherhood, roller skating, aliens. It's all covered, all the ground is covered. And, you know, we also talk about his newfound appreciation for gaps. It'll all become clear. So just find yourself a nice, comfy, dark corner listeners, shut your eyes, and enjoy the silence. And the discussion of patriarchy politics and the spherical nature of horns. Let's hear two St. Douglas's, perfect day. Have you ever had a spoon that's greasy there? No.

["P.O.F.E.C.T." by The Bumblebee playing in the background.] All right then. You're eating biscuits for breakfast. You're judging, but you're wrong. This is triple, have you not seen these ones? These are triple chocolate. I've got a five month old baby dress, right? Anything to get by, I just need to just survive.

Is it your first? Yeah, and last. It was absolutely 100% my last. I'm never doing it again. I'm not joking. No, no, it's horrible, isn't it? Have you? I've got two.

Okay, were you and I only childhood, you got siblings? No, I've got a brother. I've got an older brother. Okay, I always have to ask before, because only kids are weird, aren't they? So I was like, I do feel a bit bad for him because he is gonna be a weirdo,

but he's just gonna have to deal with it. Yeah, there's no possible way. There's no other way. What's the worst bit about it? The sleep deprivation obviously? Yeah I mean it's like that bit in the sci-fi film where you just like, they come out of the cryogenically frozen like what year is it? You know it's just foggy, it's like that the whole time. Yeah it's just like a sleep.

Yeah. Like nothing happens that the whole time. It's just like, yeah, it's just like a sleep. Yeah. Nothing happens after 7 p.m. now. Why? I just can't, it's just, oh, let's go up. No, there's no going out. That's it. It's just done. What about gigging? I only, yeah, when I have to make money, yeah. So you go out to work. I go out to work.

It's so nice, isn't it? And then I do the late shift. Don't you love going, don't you love work? Sometimes like when they offer me a hotel, I'm like, it's so, oh my God, it's so tempting. I was like, she would kill me. But I just, I think it is. So I'm like, nah, it's okay, I'll come back

and just have a night of completely interrupting. Nah, I won't have that night of uninterrupted sleep in a room that's completely quiet. I'll just have a night of interrupted sleep back home. I think it's such a bleak existence when you realise that after you've become a parent, that like working is the easy bit. Like working is a break.

Mm, yeah. But it's now ended up as always been that for me. Like it's always been a break from, I need to cheer up. It was a break from life. I think now it's just completely changed my life for the better, in every way. Oh, that's lovely.

Yeah. By the way, don't think twice about just eating a whole packet of biscuits while you're recording a podcast. I will be, honestly, I am actually quite professional. I know, as soon as we've hit record. No, we've hit record, mate. Are we recording? This is it. Is it? We've started and what's happening is you're eating an entire packet of chocolate

digestive at the beginning of this podcast. Why have no one told me we've been recording? I go Louie Theroux style. I get them. I feel I don't know how to feel about that. I feel almost violated but I'm not quite sure. I'm full of respect and admiration for the connivingness and just natural, just duplicity that just came. I can't believe we're recording, what? That's mad. I didn't realize, honestly, I'm actually very professional.

I just wanted to know people to know. When I know that the job has started, I don't eat packs of digestives You've walked into a room full of cameras That one's got a red light on it that usually indicates that it's filming My vision is really blurry, but do you know what I admire it don't stop genuinely Okay, more people should wander into podcasts with also the thing that the detail that I like listeners that I'm just gonna I'm just gonna see comes I'm drilling down this is

actually taking me back to outsiders now I feel like every moment of our existence was like hundred carols hundred people I don't know when you're on or off there was so many so many cameras all the time but were there because that was my first experience so I didn't have anything to go by but instinctively it felt like there may be 80 cameras too many then was required for that oh my god I've never seen anything like it in my life but I can understand why they did it because we were always separated off so they had to have two cameras on each of us but when we were brought back together yeah it meant all the cameras came back because none of the camera operators had anything to do so sometimes you'd be standing in a group I mean this is like probably irrelevant to people that

this is not relatable content but it's just very unusual to be standing in a campsite with David Mitchell anyway and then you've got I I mean, how many were there? There were just so many. But there would be like nine, 10 upwards of 10. Then maybe there'd be a drone above us as well. They outnumbered us by like 10 to one. They really, really did. There were more cameras than even people.

It was like a red carpet. Like if you've ever seen like a red carpet bank of photographers, like yelling at a celebrity. But we were just in the woods. It was like that all the time. There were more cameras than trees. There were more cameras, there were just cameras. Well, let's put it this way.

And I never seen so many, because it was my first. Was that your first ever? It was like my first, yeah. I mean, it was. TV gig? To be honest, when I like, it was almost like a fever dream.

I don't think about it, but sometimes it comes like little fragments, like come, but like I think at one point, I was buried alive. And I could just, I almost think at one point I was buried alive and I could just I almost say that what was like did that happen was like they were I was just like under soil and like dead leaves and I could just hear David Mitchell's voice like find Tussent he pronounced my name in a way that I've never heard before or since like he missed out all the vowels he just went hard on constant like where's T Tuscent? It was like, it was just the T. You know, he was having a stroke.

Where's Tuscent? Find him. I don't think he's got long to live Tuscent. Like this is how I'm going to die with David Mitchell just mangling my name. Just completely like, just and but it was like, it's David. I didn't correct him like the whole week because it's David Mitchell. He was my idol growing up. I say Toussaint. It's Toussaint, yeah. But you're saying it with vowels. Toussaint. Yeah, you're saying it with, you're saying it just, I would take any which way as long as there are vowels. People must get it wrong all the time. It's been so annoying. But I think it's open, it's open to interpretation. I just had never heard or thought it was possible to have that interpretation.

Look, I think that's very generous of you. Cause I would say that someone's first name is not open to interpretation. It's not the SNS Club 7. What? That's actually brilliant. That's actually genius. What?

That's such, I love that. That's actually genius. What? That's such a... I love that. That's so delightful. That's what they used to say about the S in S Club 7. It was open to interpretation. Who said that? All of the members of S Club 7!

What 10-year-old was going, I just think it's open to interpretation actually. I think it could mean anything you want it to mean. Not the 10-year-olds! That was the marketing. That was the mystery of S Club 7. What does the S mean? What's the initial word that comes to mind? The S word that comes to mind for you. It's sexy is it? Sexy club 7. Sunshiney. Singing. Super. Nah, that's all I've got. The last thing I just wanna say about outsiders is,

I've never seen so many people work so hard. Everyone was working so hard on that show. I know, I genuinely saw people and I felt like, what, should I be doing something? Because there was so much time, whereas I've seen people work. Yeah, you should have been doing more. I think I should I be doing something? Because there was so much time, whereas like, I've seen people walk. Yeah, you should have been doing more. I should have been doing, I think I should have been doing more.

It's good that you felt that. Right. Because we all thought, what's Toos doing, he's not doing enough. But you know- He's just standing there, saying things. It was literally like, this is my genuine theory. I think it was an administrative error

that I was on that. Because if you look at it's like former taskmaster contestant, former taskmaster, like taskmaster champion of champions where the taskmaster was, Tucson. It was like what I think you know like I think they like because you're a great comedian and they were using it as an opportunity to put a spotlight on you. Do you know when that is the Trump government, that CIA, where they admitted that they put it like... Oh, I thought you were going to say the guy that was brought into the BBC and he was the

security guard. That's even better, yeah. Like the ultimate imposter syndrome fever dream coming to life. It was like, no, I'm actually the security guard and now you're interviewing me about some sort of political subject. And then I guess we're just going to have to go. Yeah, like, no, I'm actually the security guard and now you're interviewing me about some sort of political subject. And then I guess we're just going to have to go. Yeah, it was too late. By the way, we were talking about the BBC show Outsiders there. That's where me and two met.

But it was Dave, but now it's BBC. Sorry, yeah, it was Dave and now it's BBC. That keeps happening. Honestly, the way you said Jamali's name. The way I said, oh, the way I said Jamali. You were the opposite of Dave Mitch. You put in extra vowels. Jamali, Jamali's name. The way I said Jamali. You were the opposite of David. You put in extra vowels. Jamali! Jamali! And we could hear you from the other side of the woods.

It's just the way I talked though. There's nothing deliberate about that. It's just my accent and that's just his name. And those two things together apparently became, well actually quite annoying for Jamali in the end. No, can you just keep talking a bit more? I'm just trying to finish this biscuit. Yeah, just finish your biscuit. Finish your biscuit. Bring your biscuits. I didn't know we were on, but I'm going to actually put up a more staunch defence of these

biscuits, because this is, these are triple chocolate. Right. These are triple chocolate digest, do you know, why are you not more, what a time to be alive. Right, I don't need... We're living in a world where a digestive has triple chocolate. What are we talking? Chocolate on the top, we know about that. Okay. That's single chocolate. Yeah. Chocolate chips inside, little chunks of chocolate. Oh, little chocolate chips. That's double chocolate. Okay. This is where the magic, this is where truly we are living in a time of wonder.

They have worked out technology where they've infused the biscuit mixture itself with chocolate. We don't know where the chocolate begins or ends. The whole thing. Why are you not, are you not alive inside? Is there no joy in your life anymore? This is triple chocolate.

My insulin levels have spiked just thinking about it. That's what I'm worried about. Story to steal Ed Gamble's schtick for a moment, but I can't do. I just cannot do that level of sugar. I can't tolerate it. My blood sugar would spike. I'd be crashing within minutes.

You're playing with glucose fire here, Toussaint. Well, that's why you got the topper of the Red Bull Winter Edition. That's just, that's a disgrace. This is a good breakfast. You're surviving. I'm surviving. So hang on, you've come in here,

you're eating a whole packet of triple chocolate biscuits and you're drinking a Red Bull. A Red Bull winter edition. This is ice vanilla berry. Am I getting berry? I'm not quite sure, but I am getting a hint of vanilla. Honestly. And a lot of.

If this is your diet, you should be dead. That's the way I think about it. Well, I bloody hope not. I've got a five month old baby. What a, how did your daddy die? The way he died, the way he lived, you die? He died the way he lived. He died doing the thing he loved, just eating biscuits and drinking Red Bull. No, you've got, but actually I really do understand that awful feeling of like newborn.

I work nights. Yeah, and then someone forces you to come in and record a podcast really early in the morning. I do the late, late shift. So I work nights. I've started roller skating, but I only do it at night after gigs. This is becoming very surreal. What do you mean you've started roller skating? Something, do you not feel like when you had a kid you needed to do something for yourself? Yes, I do.

Yeah, that's roller skating for me. But I didn't have the time because I was looking after a child, so I just put all of my dreams to rest. Yes, yes. I'm looking after the child as well, so I roller skate with him. You are a man, so you've taken up roller skating. No, no, no, no. This is the classic. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. Oh, I can't feed my own kid with my breasts, so I'm immediately

rolled out. Oh, we've touched a nerve. We've touched a nerve. Go on. No. So you've taken... I don't know. I've gone to the old school skit. No, look, I think everyone, parent, regardless of who you are in your parenting role, I think you need something, I think you need something for yourself. Yeah, you do. No, you do. You absolutely do. And I've always wanted, and I think there was like, it's just an overnight, everything changes like that. Like, it's like... Oh my God, I really feel you. It's like that. Over to the MCU Thanos where he just clicks his fingers and half the world's dead.

That is like being a parent. Like half your world is just gone. It's quite a hard thing to like, well, for me, it was quite hard to get my head, like I'm quite, yeah, get my head around. So I like- Oh my God, I refer to having a baby as a magical nightmare. That's quite nice.

Because it is like- It is lovely, yeah. I don't want to let it- But what it is is the positive is one amazing thing, like which is love and the love of your baby. And it's massive and it's amazing. And then just fucking loads of terrible, terrible things. Yeah, but like little, they're not massive.

They're really tiny. So individually, they're not a big deal. Just ebbing away at your time and identity. It's just chips. It's just little chips. Just ebbing away, just, no, you can't have that. No, no, no, sorry, taking that back. Sleep, you like that, did you?

No, we'll have that. Oh, hobbies, you like those, did you? Oh, we'll take those. Oh, you liked concentrating on your work because it was really creatively fulfilling. No, you're not going to be able to do that unfortunately. We'll just take that back. Oh, you liked your partner.

Oh, well you won't be able to get on anymore unfortunately. So we'll just take that away. Sex! Sex! That's a massive one actually, that's quite a massive one. Sex! Oh, you liked that, did you? Well, we'll be taking that one, thank you. And then it's all gone. Right, out of the blue, it's just like,

we put him down for a nap and she said, I think I resent you a bit. Said it in the nicest, well, I almost thought she said, I love you. You know, I'm mistaken. It was the same tone, the same kind of cadence of I love you. I think I resent you a bit.

It's just kind of smiled. It was like, yeah, I get that. I get that, dude. Yeah. But I think there is a bit of that. So I think it's you, but it's just kind of smiling. It's like, yeah, I get that, I get that. Yeah. But I think there is a bit of that. So I think it's, I've accepted now that there are certain things I don't think I will be able to do maybe for the next 10 years.

There are certain places I wanted to visit. It's not possible right now, but I can learn to roller skate, goddammit. And so that's what I'm trying to do, but only at night when he's asleep. What an image oh my god you go to a roller skate park just like biscuits. I mean there's no roller skate park I just go to the park I have to actually climb over the fence they started locking it I don't know if it's because it's quite recent actually I don't know it's because they I'm the

one who prompted that so I have to clamber over. It's quite, it's nice after a gig because it gets rid of the adrenaline and it just replaces it with the adrenaline of like, going to fall. So it's like a new set of adrenaline kicks in. I can't tell if you're joking. Are you really doing this? The image of you desperately clawing back

some time for yourself by breaking into your local park with a pair of roller skates over your shoulder. I don't think you can break into a local park. The local park is for everyone. Putting locks on the local park I think is contrary to the ethos of what a local park is. I love the idea of you being caught. Technically I break into a local park. Someone catches you in the act of breaking into the park and you've just got your roller skates. You're like, I'm a new, what, what, what are you going to do? I'm a new dad. I'm a new dad and I need to go roller skating.

I'm a new, give me this man. I'm a new dad. Roller skating here. I mean, I would try to get away, but I'm so bad that I would, I just fall instantly. I'm not improving because there's no lights in the park. I can't see what I'm doing Jess. I don't have, I'm in the darkness.

I think someone needs to write a sternly worded letter to Lewisham Council. I mean. Who's got the time? Who's got the time? Who's got the time? Who's got the time? That's a very middle-class thing to do.

And Lewisham, at this moment in time, isn't quite there yet. But I do, I do want to see. They might write some sternly worded graffiti on the bin, but they're not going to. But as I would like to see the letter I want I want to see the letter I want to see the response to the letter I want I want like the full like all of this what would the letter even say there was a man in the park to the Jewish Council to say it's been brought to my attention that I am unable to roller skate

at night. Why? My human right to roller skate. I'm pretty sure it's in the UN commitment. There's got to be somewhere a person's right to roam. Yeah, right to roam. Right to roll. Right to roll. Right to roll. Okay, so are you ready to tell us your perfect day? Absolutely. Let's go. Tussent. Tussent. What's your perfect morning? Okay, let me set the scene. You've had some sleep. Wow. Don't get ahead of me. It's 6 a.m. Yeah, oh, I wasn't expecting that. No, I wasn't. What's happening?

Nothing. Nothing. Silence. Can you hear that? Yeah, the sound of silence. The sound of silence. No crying. No crying. No screaming.

Oh my God, what happened to silence,? What happened to pauses? I bet in this podcast even you edit out the silences, the awkward pauses, the thinking time. People need to think. If you look at old interviews, BBC interviews, they just leave the pauses in. They leave the people generally, you look at the old chat shows people go um and they just it's good two minutes of thinking time. The thing that always makes me laugh is on mastermind when they keep the walking from the chair to the other chair. I think it's such a long walk and it's so much dead air and they absolutely still commit to it. It's like it's like a good five seconds just someone walking from one chair to another. I'm like, that wouldn't make it now. The only reason that's there is because that is a hangover

from when the show was invented in the sixties, seventies. I don't know. It'd be a jump cut now. They'd go from that. Oh, of course it would. You would never put, but I'm with you. Where did the gaps go? Where did the gaps go? I hope you leave that gap just there in. I'll do another one now if you want. Please. I'm like, you know what, if you get, how long is the gap going to be? Well that's up to you. You're, you're the interviewee. Okay. I mean we've got, well let's just see, let's see how we go. I'm going to put my sunglasses on and I'm, it doesn't mean I'm going to close my eyes. Okay. But my eyes, I don't wanna be rude. Okay, so, genuinely, Tucson has got his sunglasses out.

Just so you know. I'm not gonna- I'm gonna take it anywhere I can get it. Any little bit of quiet. God, you look so fucking cool. I'm leaving this gap now. I'm not gonna feel the silence. That's great.

Wait a second. Cause honestly, as a new parent, this is just brilliant that thing is. Just so you know, this is a second. Because honestly, as a new parent, this is just brilliant. Just so you know, this is a podcast. I know, I know, but I think people appreciate it. What the fuck is that? Lavender spray. I just need to relax.

But you just had that in your pocket. I carry it around. My third episode, it's quite helpful. Rechanges, reconfigures the... OK. I'm just going to wait here wait here while Tucson has a breakdown the beginning of my podcast it does smell lovely this breakdown though your breakdown smells divine your breakdown smells of lavender ah but when's the

silence starting? okay let's start let's start now My producer's having an absolute fit. The producer's looking at me like... She is crying. She's absolutely wrecked. She's weeping. She's like, this is the end. I've absolutely messed up booking this guy. I'm never going to work again in the industry.

I've inadvertently created the first silent podcast of Absolute Screw. All I wanted was just to make a podcast, people enjoy and listen to, and this guy is, what is he doing? Okay, but that was lovely. It was a good example. Of why you shouldn't have a baby. Absolutely, like, I mean, I thought it was quite mad

that you walked in with a packet of biscuits and a Red Bull, but to pull out a pillow mist from your pocket, unless that was a planned bit, which it can't have been really. It's not, is it? That would be absolutely mental. Why have you got that in your pocket all the time? Well, did you enjoy it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So why doesn't everyone have it in their pocket? That's the question you should be asking.

Why are we not all carrying around something which can make our day a little bit more calming and relaxable? Have you been on the tube? That whole thing could do with a pillow mist. Sorry, are you spraying mist on the tube? No, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? I'm not doing anything that could get me a fine, alright? Okay, I'm not doing anything criminal. I'm just saying, at times, where it is safe to do so, I may spray a little bit of lavender. Like directly at the person who's interviewing you on a podcast, but nowhere that we would be crazy.

Nowhere else. Okay, cool. Perfect morning, it's 6am, it's silent. It's just silent. It's just quiet. It's lovely. I'm sleeping. You're asleep?

Oh, 100%. I'm sleeping. You're asleep? Oh, 100%. So you're perfect. Oh, right. Sorry, I thought you meant that you'd woken up like naturally and it was silent. Oh my God. Okay, sorry.

I'm asleep. Okay, okay. I'm sleeping. Got it. No, no, I understand. Until when? Let's start the, let's wake you up. Ooh, I might as well, I'm gonna have a lion.

Mm-hmm. I'm gonna have a cheeky lion. Absolutely. I'm gonna look at the clock Erin I'm just gonna turn it down and I'm going I'm going back for round two. Imagine. Little top-up. Imagine. Probably let's say I was gonna say I was gonna say 9.30 but still that sounds naughty. still quite early. Is it? Okay? 945 945 940 an extra 15 on top of it. Oh, why not treat myself? 945 lying and How are you waking up just naturally or?

How does anyone wake up? Well some people set alarms. Some people are woken up by the smell of coffee. No, but I've had the... No, no, no music. No, you're right. Even when you said that, you didn't believe that. You're right, you're right.

Nobody wakes up because of the smell of coffee, okay? That's not what I meant. Oh, is that the smell of coffee? okay? That's not what I meant. Oh, is that the smell of coffee? I think I'll wake up now, actually. Why do you wake now? Is that Kenko I smell? Is that the delightful notes of Goldblend? What I mean is-

I guess it's wake up time, sorry. You might- Who's mad now, Jess? Shut up! Is it the person with pillow mist in their pocket, just having a little bit of joy, or is it the person who thinks people wake up smelling coffee? Wake up and smell the coffee.

I can't smell lavender mist, but you can smell coffee in the air. I never said you can't smell lavender mist. That was the implication. That was what you implied. I don't want to argue with you. Do people like you, prejudiced people like you against people like me, carrying pillow mist in their pocket, who am I hurting? Who's being hurt by this?

Never said you were hurting anyone, it was just unusual. If anything, I'm helping. It's unusual. I'm helping. Okay, so. Yes. You've woken up. Yeah. Naturally. Why did you say it like that?

I don't know, because you haven't been awoken by anything. You've woken up of your own accord, have you? The alarm was at nine-thirty. So there is an alarm. I think there will be. This is what I want to know own accord, have you? The alarm was at 9.30. So there is an alarm. I think there will be. This is what I want to know. Yes, I guess there is an alarm at some point. I'm not a complete weirdo.

Okay, let's get off this. It's causing some distress and I don't know why. Do you want some more pillow mist? No, thank you. So where are you? Where have you woken up? I've only had three bedrooms in my life. Not the first one, not my first childhood bedroom.

I didn't mind it, it was a nice bedroom. Not complaining, like it was all right, but I used to get visited by aliens quite a lot. And they were nice, but you know. I just, I used to get visit, it's not a big deal. I used to get visited by aliens. They were nice, but you know, after a while, it does get a bit annoying.

Where did you live, Area 51? Where was your first bedroom? Oh, really funny joke about aliens. We've heard that one before, haven't we, in the alien community? No, I lived in Lewisham. It was just Lewisham, but they, you know. What kind of aliens?

Greys? The little ones. I couldn't really see it, it was nighttime, and I wasn't up. So how did you know it was an alien? You just know. It's getting a bit Joe Rogan this isn't it? Whenever you see an alien.

But his podcast does numbers. So actually this is probably quite useful. To tell me about your, were you abducted or? No, no, they used to just visit. Did you not, have you never had like as a kid? No, but I love it. I love talking about it. I genuinely am interested in aliens.

I also want to say I'm not alienist. Like I'm not anti-alien. Were they benevolent aliens? Sorry, if you couldn't see them, how did you know they were aliens? I could vaguely see the outline. Right, and it was a little green one. It was nighttime and I was sleepy. I was a sleepy little kid.

It was dark and I couldn't, I was a sleepy little kid. I was sleepy and it was dark and I couldn't, you know, you can make them out. And you know, like when you walk along the river, like the South Bank, and there's always the guy who's about to, you know, do some street performance. Yeah, the floating guy. Yeah, yeah.

And he puts his robe out and he's like, he's got the mic, you know, the Michael Magatama, he's like, guys, I'm about to do some magic, show's about to start. And you get people, don't you? They kind of just gather, you know, like, ooh, what's gonna happen? That's what the aliens, they just gather.

They're kind of just looking. How many were there? Three, four at a time. Did they ever sort of like beam their thoughts into your brain or anything? No. They just came and looked and then went away? They just came and looked and then they, you know, they left.

But it was, I'm trying to sleep. Right. You know, so it was a bit... Have you had any alien encounters since? No, but again, I just want to say I'm not, I am an alien. You know, the US government has said that. So I want to make it clear that I'm not anti-alien. I see what you mean, yeah.

Yeah, I'm an extraordinary alien, actually, according to the US government. Are you? Yeah. It wasn't that weird when you, because it literally says all that it said as a kid. Yeah. As a kid, it's like, ah, I'm an alien.

Yeah. That's quite a weird thing to process. What did you get? Did you spend time in America as a kid? as a kid's like, ah, I'm an alien. That's quite a weird thing to process. What did you get? Did you spend time in America as a kid? Yeah. All right. Yeah, my dad lived out there. All right, whereabouts?

Like New York state. So what's the story then? Why was your dad in America? Because he was like working out there. He was like studying and working out there and stuff like that. So what did he do? So he started in Lewisham as a electrician

and then he used to do like building sites and stuff like that. And he said it was great until like it got to like winter and it was just like really cold and you're like 20 stories up and they haven't put the like walls in yet. So you're just freezing, you're like putting in the wire and you just freeze and stuff like that.

So then he just, he's mad, he made the switch. He went to New York and he got into computing. But just as the personal computers were getting quite big and stuff like that. So he went to community college and then he went to NYU and then he went to Yale, did his PhD at Yale. Wow. Yeah, and we're talking, this is a guy from Lewisham, you know,

who grew up in like the sixties. Yeah. So no one was saying, Hey, you could get a PhD from him. No one was encouraging. So he just kind of had this, you know, this thing on his own. And then, so we would go out there periodically to, you know, just to see him. Yeah. Just to see him. Yeah. Yeah. So it was so different from Lewisham. Yeah, just to see him. Yeah, yeah. So it was so different from Lewisham. Yeah, I was told by the US government I was alien, but also I felt like a bit of an alien because it was just, it was such a different world,

isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going from like Lewisham, where they don't let you roller skate in parks. Just very authoritarian and to the big apple baby, where you can roller skate and everyone's roller skating they're all skating in parks all the time have you been there yeah my god so many roller skates roller blades they love to

put shit with wheels on the end of their feet so tell me a bit more about your perfect morning, Tucson. So where are we? 9.30. Well, yeah, we're up. We're in your house. We don't know which house you're in, but not the one, not the alien one. Yeah, yeah, not the, yeah, not that one. Are we in your house or are we in like, where are we? We could be anywhere. We can be anywhere in the world.

No, we'll still be in the house, but just my second childhood bedroom, which was just, it was just a better. No visitations in the second. Yeah, they actually stopped. I don't know what it was about that room, but maybe there was a, I don't know, dimensional gate or something. Yeah, it was obviously a portal. But it stopped.

It was just, it was a bit of a bigger room. Maybe they didn't like that, I don't know. It was, yeah, so we'll be there. It's a nice place. I'd love to go to have, you know, just a cooked breakfast. Oh yeah, right. I'd love just to go to, you know, there's a local cafe where I live in Lewisham. Sometimes I go there and they're lovely, really friendly. You know, the kind of place where they

have the sign, the chalkboard sign outside, as it says. Oh yeah, I know, I know, a proper greasy spoon. Yeah, no, I don't, I think that's a pejorative. I don't, I think it's a compliment. I don't know, is it a compliment? Because actually I feel like these places, they do so much. Right. They're so talented, so skilled, so good.

Have you ever had a spoon that's greasy there? No. I've never had a greasy spoon there. I've had a perfectly clean, greasy there? No, I've never had a greasy spoon there. I've had a perfectly clean non-greasy spoon. So what are we having? Is it a full English situation? What else would I be having? Yeah, a packet of triple chocolate biscuits and a red bull.

This is different times. But this is my perfect morning. They're lovely, they're friendly, they're delightful, but I just wish once, and maybe it could happen on my perfect morning that I could walk in there and I could just be one of the high vis lads. You know, it's a real, it's one of those places where the lads are wearing high vis. Like your dad would have been. Like my dad would have. God, this is all coming. This is better than my therapy sessions. It's like my dad because he was an old school, he was very old school. He was progressive in some respects but absolutely regressive in almost every other respect when it came to fame. He had very traditional views

of masculinity. He still does, he's not dead. I mean he's kind of dead emotionally but he's not dead. Yeah, he once told me to man up because he caught me rinsing out a yoghurt pot. What am I meant to do with that? I don't know. Apparently real men don't sort their recycling. I don't know what the takeaway was. I'm not quite sure. So that was the kind of guy. And I'd never felt like I, I mean, look at me.

It's not happening, is it? So once I would just like to don a high vis, maybe even a bloody hard hat. And just go in with the lads I guess all right boys. All right lads. Oh, and say hello love. They always say hello love Your usual the usual love. I can't say that. Hello love. I just it's just wrong. It's horrible I'm cringing. They're cringing Hello, love, oh my God. What does it feel like to be a man

who really wants to be more masculine, genuinely? Like I don't, because I don't know what that's like. I don't know what that's like. I can kind of relate to it because I'm like, I'm a woman who sometimes wishes they were a bit more feminine, like I guess it would be nice to be like a pretty girl sometimes. Is it like, I don't know, I'm like,

I'm wondering what it's like. Like is it a thing, like is it a daily thing where you're like, I'm just not blokey enough? What does it feel like? It's not even a day, it's, what is it? What's it like? It's not even like, honestly, it's not something that's come up for me until I had my son.

And then it was like actually, yeah. This is five months fresh. Yeah. And then it was like, oh, like, I don't think I know what it is to be a man. Like what, then I'm like, I'm going to be his point of reference. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'm just going to work out for him.

So it's kind of like, I need to try and to figure out what it is to, you know, what does it mean to be a man? I think it, I don't think it it's clear. I don't think it's clear to men. I think that's the, this is getting real, but I don't think it's clear to like men. What I think a lot of men are confused. Really wrestling.

Yeah. Because also we don't talk so there's no progression of the conversation like at least you know it's a generalization but women have conversations. I think we're safe to say that. Yeah. I think we're safe to say women have conversations. I'm not quite sure men we're getting there just but the conversations are Joe Rogan talking for five hours about the benefits of eating lots of mushrooms. You know what I mean?

Like that's where the conversation has been at the moment. We've got a long way to go. We're at the bottom of the mountain, Jus. What's your suspicion when you ask the question, what is it to be a man? What do you suspect the answer might be? I suspect that it's like, you know, like you walk into a room and there's just a box

on the table and that box is meant to have the answer. And you open the box and there's nothing there. There's absolutely nothing there. Because actually I don't think- There's no answer. There's no answer. There's no answer. The thing is it's so interesting because I think that both men and women struggle with their identity

and we exist in a world where men are in charge of most of the institutions that form our system, right? Is that fair to say? Do you agree with that as a man? I'm in a podcast, Judy, system, right? Is that fair to say? Do you agree with that as a man? I'm in a podcast with two women. I feel like this podcast, what would be your listenership demographic? It would probably skews female, but there's a lot of, we have a lot of male listeners,

believe it or not. Obviously women don't mind listening to men, men don't like listening to women, but my male listeners are awesome because they don't mind listening to a woman who has her own podcast. I love that. That's where the bar is. They don't mind. They don't mind. They can put up with it. They're not maybe enthusiastic about it, but they don't mind. They'll put up with it. I agree with what you said with a big asterisk. Go on. Well, because I think it is a certain type of man, isn't it, that is largely controlling all the levers of power and institutions of government. I don't think it's...

Yes. It's not all men. I was almost going to say, it's not all men. No, but that's so interesting. But I think it is an asterisk. But I think you're... Therein lies the problem though, because I think that that's why it's so hard to operate within this system. And the men you're describing are sort of like alpha men, you know, that

this system that we live in now is designed to make that very small minority of alpha men thrive. And then for everyone else who's getting a biscuit, he's getting a biscuit. No, I'm listening. And then for everyone else, the gentle men, the kind men, the men that want to look after their children or whatever, it's a disaster. And you find yourselves asking questions like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? What is it to be a man? What I mean is the patriarchy is bad for men and women. I just think it is. But also I do want to say like, I don't think I missed out on anything. My family's full

of women. Like it's a very matriarchal family. My nan was the head of the family and my mom full of aunts, sister cousins, like they did everything. So if there are like masculine or feminine roles, whatever, maybe there are, maybe there aren't, I don't know. But what I do know is that a person can embody it all. There was no, they didn't have a choice. It wasn't a pick and choose. It wasn't a pick and mix situation. They just had to get on with everything.

My nan just was everything to me. She was both mum and dad, you know? Like she raised, she embodied, she was whatever tough and strong, but also warm, loving and nurturing and caring. And you know what I mean? So like, I got it all. And also it showed to me the kind of folly

and the fallacy of, in my view anyway, a lot of the kind of gendered constructs. And I'm seeing it again now with the kid, you know? Like we're trying to, you know, we kept it a surprise in terms of, we didn't want to know the sex of our child and stuff like that. So we're trying to buy some, you know, like clothes,

just sleep suits, Jess. You go in there, it's like just walls of pink and then just walls of blue. It's like, no, no, no, we don't know what it is. I don't have an issue with either of them, but where's your neutrals, mate? Just give me something autumnal. Give me some greens, give me some brows,

just give me something else. It's just bow ties, yeah. Oh yeah, you want bow ties. You want bow ties, or do you want sailors? You know what I mean? It's like, do you want princesses, or do you want firefighters? Or know what I mean? It's like, do you want princesses? Or do you want firefighters? Why is it also like, you just,

why do they put ears on everything? It doesn't, why is it like, surely baby's clothing has evolved past the need to put ears on. Yes, the first time, like you've smashed it, mate. So cute. When like year 50 now of having ears on everything. Come on, work harder.

Okay, let's, let's, should we move on to your afternoon? Unless you've got more to add to your morning, which was? Which was, what was it? Go again, silence. Waking up. Waking up. No, waking up.

I think, I think what we've covered, the ground we've covered so far on your perfect day is you've woken up in silence. I've woken up in silence. I know you've woken up in silence, you've had a delicious greasy spoon. I've had a delicious greasy spoon with the lads. Not calling it a greasy spoon.

With the lads. With the lads. Yeah, you've had a full English breakfast with the lads. With the lads. Are we good? Yeah, yeah. Because we've had a lovely lie in and then we've had a full English.

A lovely lie in full English. Let's have your perfect afternoon. All right, let's go for it. ["The Day We Were Born To Be"] Trip to the museum. Oh yeah, which one? Natural history. Nach-hiss.. Nat His. Every single time. There isn't another one that comes close. Um. Nat His every time. I haven't been since uh Dippy

was in the foyer. That's mad. That's absolutely mad. You need to take yourself down. Let's go this afternoon. I like going in the afternoon. I like going in the afternoon you don't want to go to that hiss no are you just saying that no I do I do I do actually no I do if you no no I do I'd rather see some art but tell me about it why is it so great isn't it full of stolen things is that one of the good ones all right it's one of the good I mean that I mean to be fair it probably still is full of stolen things, but let's, you know. So what's in the foyer now? Oh my God, it's a blue whale.

It's a carcass of a blue whale. Wow. Suspended from the ceiling. That's incredible. Yeah, is that natural? I don't know. I think that's the most unnatural thing you could probably have in a museum, but you know.

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. What's your favourite room in the natural history? Blue Zone. Oh. You go straight to the Blue Zone. What's your favourite room in the natural history? Blue Zone. Oh. You go straight to the Blue Zone. I see them. Have I got...

Sorry, what is in your other pocket now? It's reaching into its other pocket. What can possibly be in there? These pockets. I think I've got them up. Do you get... How often do you go? I try and go every couple of weeks.

Really? Yeah. Is it one of the free ones? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is free. So, Blue Zone. Yeah. I mean,, yeah. Yeah, this is free. So blue zone. Yeah, I mean, what's not to like? Dinosaurs. Wonderful.

Love dinosaurs. You've got the mammal area. What's your favourite mammal? I think the rhino, you know. What do you love about rhinos so much? I just like saying it. Rhino. Rhino. Rhino.

Rhino. Rhino. And also like, rhino. They've got a horn on their neck. Why is that not talked about more? It is absolutely mind boggling. We talk about unicorns, it's not even real mate. We've got a real one right here. I know. Why are you so obsessed? We've got a live one. We've got a live horned animal. Animals with horns? What an extraordinary thing. Narwhals. Narwhals. That's a good one. And also nice to say as well.

Narwhals. Say it. Narwhals. Say it with me. Pleasurable. Deers, antelope, like horns are incredible, aren't they? I'm not sure. Is deer horns? I don't know. Yeah. Are they?? I don't know. Yeah. Are they? Okay. Well, yeah.

For me, a horn evokes, you know, it's that conical shape. So what are the? They're antlers, aren't they? That's a very good point, guys. I don't, look, I'm not looking to- I stand corrected. I think if you'd go to the Natural History Museum more, I don't think you would have made that kind of factual-

No, I thought- Quite embarrassing, but that's why, that's why I go a couple times a week. The good thing is we can edit it out to make me please don't edit it out because actually we need to bring, this is really important. This is why you should go to the Natural History Museum so you don't make factual mistakes like Jess just did.

How embarrassing. It was a little bit. So do you just love animals? What is it? Ones that I can see in glass cases that are dead. Right, so you don't need to be around animals. It's just, it's specific. You know what it is about the Natural History Museum?

Tell me. My dad used to take me. Yeah, because I didn't live with him. So it was something we would do. Can we put music to this bit? I think it'd be quite powerful with a bit of music, like kind of stone music. Click this up.

I could just sing it actually. What would you? Masked in the museums. You just keep going. Okay. You're gonna hum. I think just maybe a little hum. Yeah, I will.

Yeah, my dad used to take me. Tied up. Keep going. don't stop I'm gonna sing snow patrol is that snow patrol yeah yeah that sounds appropriate I really want to do it I really want to get through it My dad used to take... Light up. I didn't live with my dad. Light up. And... As if you had a choice. And yeah, just... Even if you can. I think I'm gonna need a moment.

He's spraying, he's spraying the mist, the mist. He's gone down, he's gone down. Okay. Okay. Oh, it was fun. Yeah, it was fun. Dads like museums though. That's a fact. If you go to every museum, it's full of dads.

They've got their backpacks on, you know, they've got their jumper tied around their waist camera and they're just pointing at stuff. Dads love museums because it's very factual, isn't it, museums? It's just full of facts. Do you wheel your baby around in the buggy? I've not taken the little one yet.

That's a good thing to do. Yeah, I think that'll be, and it'll be like a circle moment. Good for your own sanity as well. Yeah and yeah because you can go and enjoy yourself or in the sling. Yeah I like the sling. Pointing at stuff. I think that's a that's a good day out that is when you if you want to go and you know it's up there with roller skating I would say. Yeah yeah I might take him roller skating as well. Okay so afternoon Natural History Museum and then what are you going for some sort of lunch? Are you making use of the cafe facilities? It's quite expensive. Are you out there? I'm out okay straight out. Out there where are we going next is that like, are you spending the whole afternoon in the Nathis?

I mean, it's a good couple of hours, if you're doing it properly, zone to zone, covering each area. You know, I don't just walk past, I'm looking. I'm reading the little signs that tell you something, because I want to learn. Some people are like, oh, I just, no, no, no. Read the thing. Read the sign. Take on some information.

Listen to the audio headset, perhaps. I mean, treat yourself. Why not? Join up with a tour guide. Join up with, yeah, they have free tours, but they are hit and miss. I've done those in the British Museum and it's just dudes who Yeah, they have free tours. But they are hit and miss. I've done those in the British Museum and it's just dudes who don't have a lot going on in their lives.

And sometimes they can be a bit sad. No disrespect to everybody that works at the British Museum. No, it's not, no, I have to be really clear. They are not paid employees. Volunteers. They are volunteers who have a lot of free time. They're volunteering their time. They're volunteering their time.

They're volunteering time that because they've got... They're volunteering their time. They work really hard to give everyone an informative talk presumably. And what Toosan's done is he's come on a podcast and slagged them off. I just wish they'd do it with less tears. You know, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, he had tears. Seriously? I think he was going through stuff. Oh wow okay. And it did detract from talking about the emperors of Rome. So he was quite, right okay. Shall we move on to your perfect night? Yeah okay. To St Douglas, Okay. Perfect night.

To St. Douglas, what's your perfect night? So I'm in the park. Yeah. But you'll love this. It's got lights now. Yeah, so I can actually, I can see what I'm doing and where I'm going. You wrote to Lewisham Council then. I've written to Lewisham, and they've heard heard me Jess, they've responded not only have they

responded they've installed lights and actually it's safer now there are other people in the park as well now everyone's come they're like ah I feel safer I can also now skate at night and it's just me and lots of other tired dads and we're all skating together just dancing having a lovely time I reconnect with my dad I don't think so yeah I see he's and he sees me skating and he you know what he says he says you're a man. Yes. To say? Yeah. So that's what- You're a man now, son. You're the man.

I wouldn't go that far. You're not the man, but you are a man. You are one of the mans. Wow. Do you know that book, the book you wish your parents had read? No. It's about the fact that it's sort of a self-help book-ish.

I mean, it sounds like one. It's written by Philippa Perry, you know, Grayson Perry's wife. Okay, it just sounds incredibly middle class. It is, but basically the premise is so you don't have to read it, that when you become a parent, you relive your childhood. Okay. Through your, because you just obviously reflect on. Makes sense, yeah, yeah.

And I'm just obviously noticing that you're like, there's been a heavy theme about your dad and you've just become a dad. And like, it does just make you think so much about how you were raised when you become a dad. And that is the thing that I think, nobody warned me that that was gonna happen on top of every fucking thing else.

When you're like at your most tired and vulnerable vulnerable and then you also start reflecting on your own childhood and you have to suddenly like deal with all of this stuff. Yeah. But I think actually it's needed. I think you have to do that because I think that enables you to, it gives you the best chance of being the best possible you to your child. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's almost like that's evolution happening, isn't it? You have to evolve out of whatever that was.

Also, it just makes you a better skater, to be honest. It just makes you a better skater. Just skate wise. Yeah. It just frees you up. Are you good? I mean, obviously on your perfect night you're amazing. On it just it just frees you up. Are you good do you think? I mean obviously on your perfect night you're in perfect light. I'm doing everything I'm doing crazy legs. Backwards can you skate backwards or not? No

I'm that's the next that's my Everest. If you can't skate but what can you do? I can do crazy legs. Crazy legs. Yeah which is just a made up on the spot. It's very similar to not being able to skate anyway. Right. You know. I think you're quite a tall person. With the hair, yeah. I think, and I'm a tall person. I think skating is, skating's difficult for tall people

because of the, what's it called? The height off the ground. Yes, something, I've forgotten the term for it, but it's something to do with where your core is. Yeah, it's further off the ground. Yeah. Yeah. What's it called?

I think we get what, yeah. I want to say balance of power, but it's not balance of power. That's something else. This all feels like things you might pick up in a museum. It all feels like things that I shouldn't be a museum. It all feels like things that I shouldn't be saying because they're not worth saying but I'm saying them anyway. Susan, thanks so much for coming on the show. Oh, we've got one bonus question if you don't mind.

Yeah, yeah. What's a piece of perfection you'd recommend this week? Can I have two? Is it in, is it? Just like a little cool thing that you'd recommend. Okay. Just like any of any kind of, yeah. Okay. So one is like, there's this thing, old men skating. So like, if you just like TikTok or YouTube, you just type in old men skating and it's just the most wholesome. It's just old dudes just skating around like a roller ring,

but they're so good and they're just free and they're just themselves. But then like people put it to like different music. So sometimes you get something like really lovely, like the Bee Gees or that sometimes you just get like Eminem lose myself and it works every single, it's the same clip. It just works for everything. It's just, I spent hours just watching it. Heaven. Heaven. That sounds amazing.

Absolute bliss. That's a nap time well spent. Yeah, that's absolutely a go-to. And then the other one would be Richard Pryor, probably my, yeah, I think my favorite comedian ever and stuff like that. Even before I started doing comedy, I think he was like, when I was a kid, I was probably too young to be watching him,

but like, he was like my touch point. I think he was the first time I saw a man being vulnerable. Like you see some of his stand up, you know, he's like, you know, he's wildly talented, super charismatic, charming, confident, like obviously great at what he does, but he wasn't afraid to be vulnerable on stage and stuff like that. And I think that was like seeing that as a kid was like, oh my God, okay. And he had this one, he had this one joke and one special. Obviously he had his problems and stuff like that. And you know, he's addicted to drugs.

At one point, I think in his life, he'd like set himself on fire, like free-facing and stuff like that. And he'd come back and you know, he'd recovered. Then he did this special and he had this one joke. I think he was towards the, he might have been the last joke of the special or something towards the end where he was like talking

like to the crowd and stuff like that. And he was saying, I know the jokes that have been made, I'm gonna absolutely murder this, but he's like, I know the jokes have been made about, da da da da. The one joke I really loved was like, he takes out a match and like lights it, and he goes, what's this?

And it's like, it's Richard Pryor running down the street and it was just so, the audience were an absolute stitch. It was like that communion between him and the audience. They knew him, they felt him because he was open, he was vulnerable. It was just that lovely communion between him and the audience and that you could be vulnerable in a way which was on his terms.

Yeah, it's just a joke that really stuck with me in terms of what you can do in the medium of stand-up, you know. Wow. Where can you find that special? I think if you go on YouTube you can watch a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah, because it's so old. Yeah, yeah, it's just all up there. Yeah, it's all up there. Nice racks.

Toussaint, thanks so much for coming on Perfect Day. Hey, lovely spending some time with you outside buddy. Fantastic, wonderful, magnificent thank you Toussaint for managing to stay awake for the episode and I'm so glad I could gift you 10 seconds of silence. You're welcome. Tucson is going to be at the Edinburgh Fringe in August with his show Accessible Pigeon Material. And you should absolutely head out to see him if you enjoyed that. I mean, what are... you know, he's quite an absurd man, isn't he? Very funny, very nice, going through, going through it, just going through it, but

it's all going to get better. It's all going to get better. Thanks for today, lads. You know the drill. Make sure to like and subscribe. Follow us at Perfect Daycast for all your perfect day news and keep sending me your emails because I love to hear them. I love to hear about your perfect day. Shout out Liz Dimolo. Am I saying that right? She wrote in to say that her perfect day would involve listening to Perfect Day. How meta is that? She's training for the London Marathon. Go Liz. Send me what you think the S in the S Club 7 stands for if you want. I'd love to know. And I'll see you next week. From Yorkshire with Love, I'm Jessica Knappett, wishing you a perfect day. I'm Max Rushden. I'm David Rushton.

I'm David O'Doherty. And we'd like to invite you to listen to our new podcast, What Did You Do Yesterday? It's a show that asks guests the big question, quite literally, what did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it. Max, I'm still not sure. Where do we put the stress? Is it what did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean? What did you do yesterday?

I'm really downplaying it. Like, what did you do yesterday? Like, I'm just, I'm just a guy just asking a question, but do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time, I'm going to try and make it like it is the killer word. What did you do yesterday? That's too much, isn't it? That's over the top. What did you do yesterday?

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